DIY Adjustable Solar Ground Mount - Total Cost - Part List - Efficiency

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2023
  • 5% Off Discount code: holiday
    $50 off Discount code: rodneyhunt
    Hyundai 305 Watt Solar Panels : signaturesolar.com/hyundai-9-...
    Parts List:
    (4) 2x6x12 pressure treated
    (11) 2x6x10 pressure treated
    (3) 2x4x8 pressure treated
    (3)4x6x10 (recommend 6x6x12) pressure treated
    (8) unistrut 10ft
    (28) unistrut nuts 1/4, unistrut washer 1/4, and bolts 1/4 by 2.5inch
    (1) Box of 3 inch screws
    (3) Grade 8 bolts 8-10inches depending on post size
    (3) nuts grade 8
    (12) flat washer grade 8
    (3) lock washers grade 8
    My current solar setup:
    (3) EG4 6000XP INVERTERS signaturesolar.com/eg4-6000xp...
    (12) 305 WATT HYUNDAI SOLAR PANELS signaturesolar.com/hyundai-30...
    (28) SOLARVER 455 WATT PANELS signaturesolar.com/solarever-...
    (2) VICTRON LYNX POWER IN BUSBARS amzn.to/48ub3bz
    (1) VICTRON LYNC DISTRIBUTOR signaturesolar.com/victron-en...
    (2) 4/0 BATTERY RACK CABLE SETS signaturesolar.com/96in-4-0-a...
    (8) 2 AWG BATTERY AND INVERTER CABLE SETS signaturesolar.com/72in-2-awg...
    (1) 500FT PV WIRE FOR DIY signaturesolar.com/500-ft-12-...
    (1) CHARGEVERTER 100 AMP BATTERY CHARGER signaturesolar.com/eg4-charge...
    (12) MC4 CONNECTORS signaturesolar.com/staubli-mc...
    ALL LINKS ARE AFFILIATES WHICH HELPS THIS CHANNEL WITH A SMALL COMMISION FROM EACH SALE.
    Transcript
  • วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี

ความคิดเห็น • 107

  • @Joebanker80
    @Joebanker80 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Dude ..... I watched a video a while back and thought to myself .... 'thats the best wooden solar rack I've seen yet'. Well .... The solar rack you built is now the best one I've seen yet by far since it can tilt and isn't overcomplicated. Ha ... If you can patent this thing ... Do it! I bought a pallet of 14 - 255W Canadian Solar panels from San Tan I'm itching to get up and running. I think I ended up paying $45 each for them with tax and freight included. I'm optimistic I can pull 14KW a day from them on average. Thanks so much for sharing your awesome money saving solar rack project!!

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hey glad to hear that! Helping more people to get on solar to be more self reliant is one of my goals.

  • @matthewknight5641
    @matthewknight5641 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Man your down to earth and logical approach with the videos has made your channel one of my favorites as far as solar videos. Thanks for all you do.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Wow, thanks! Appreciate you watching

  • @SteveJones-dr9lz
    @SteveJones-dr9lz 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Congratulations for a job well done. Thanks for sharing!!
    To reinforce those 4x6 posts - - - > think about getting 1/4" steel plate cut to the width of the 4" side of the post. Use lag bolts to attach.
    Again, thanks for sharing.
    Have a blessed day.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Hey thats a good idea. It has been working well through wind and storms so probably fine fir the most part. I would still use 6x6 post next time to make me feel a little better and that is what I tell anyone looking to build similar

  • @LiveFree-ij3hn
    @LiveFree-ij3hn 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Wow 5 secs and just loving the setup already. Awesome.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Appreciate that! Like your name. LIVE FREE!

  • @mdunbar04
    @mdunbar04 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great Job Rodney. When I make my next ground mount I'll definitely use your example. Happy Holidays.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks. You too

  • @securenc1
    @securenc1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Hey Rodney... wanted to express my appreciation for your videos 👏👏🙏🙏 . I'm just starting my journey into solar and finding it all a bit intimidating. But, as I continue to watch your videos, I get more confident each day. I'll likely start making purchases within the next 30 days and hope it doesn't become obsolete before I can build it.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      These should be around for a while is my guess. 👍

  • @dmcd7333
    @dmcd7333 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Pretty ingenious tilt array. I am working on a 4 panel array behind the house but at ground level as we have an almost perfect Southern exposure with no shading. Getting into solar and your videos are excellent as you started small as well and expanded. Merry Christmas to you and your family.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You too! We all start somewhere. Problem is once you start you will want more lol

  • @ibenglish
    @ibenglish 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    You put out some very good content so Merry Christmas and I am now subscribed. Keep up the good work 👍🏻

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks, you too!

  • @mcarling6495
    @mcarling6495 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great job! When you get longer bolts, if you get them long enough to add one more nut, you can torque the two nuts against each other, so they won’t come off, while leaving enough play along the bolt that the array can be tilted more easily.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Seems to be good so far. Has not backed off and pretty easy to move

  • @JWTX
    @JWTX 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    That's awesome, not bad price at all. Will definitely be doing this kind of set up when I get the money. Thanks again for a great video.... Jeff

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You bet! 👍

  • @timz7548
    @timz7548 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    In the Midwest, Menards also has the Grade 8 hardware relatively inexpensive. I got my strut channel nuts from Amazon in a 100 pack relatively cheaply.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nice! 👍

  • @beebop9808
    @beebop9808 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks man. Great ideas. I'll need something like that myself not to far in the future.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It is working well so far! 👍

  • @tjmooney4181
    @tjmooney4181 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Awesome video thanks happy holidays, I designed my own adjustable arrays that can be positioned at 25 and 45 degrees (september 20 goes to 45°, march 20 goes to 25°) much more efficient compared to the fixed 35° array

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Nice work! Merry Christmas!

  • @sjbill1793
    @sjbill1793 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey Rodney, love ya for what you do to help those of us not as comfortable as you with solar installs. Your videos have helped me a lot. Just made my first purchase from Signature Solar of the EG4 6000xp with the conduit box and the EG4 Indoor Powerpro Battery along with 10 of the Boviet 450 watt Bifacial Panels. And I used your discount code, so thanks for that too.
    I was wondering if you could perhaps do a brief video on how you have your solar panels grounded on this tilt array. Or perhaps just an explanation. Again thanks for all your teaching.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The grounding video is on my list to do. Thanks for your support!

  • @amio_roseto1
    @amio_roseto1 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    thank you for the great video and the specs and info , that's very helpful

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad it was helpful!

  • @ScottieBMan
    @ScottieBMan 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    $91 dollars for $5 worth of bolts…welcome to 2023! Thnx for vid man!

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Right on👍

    • @steventrott8714
      @steventrott8714 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      McMaster is expensive sometimes. We order from there at work, 99.9% the order is correct, and 95% it shows up next day. They are absolutely the best supplier on the planet.
      I am an engineer, and grade 8 is massively over kill for this application, which is the majority of the cost. Grade five would be more than adequate and close to half the cost.
      I’d recommend using a jam nut or a nylock nut. The torque required to keep the fastener from coming loose isn’t even possible without destroying the wood. With nylock, if it becomes loose, the possibility of the nut falling off the bolt is greatly diminished. If nothing else, periodically check that the lock washer is still compressed.

  • @RISCGames
    @RISCGames 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hell yeah🤘🏻so cool to see Morpheus doing well in the Solar world these days! :D

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      👍

  • @peackeeper1
    @peackeeper1 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Absolutely brilliant for flat land. Unfortunately My property slopes too much so I had to make 4 frames and stairs step them and mount them to to cinder blocks because my soil has too much rock.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Sounds like a good plan for your terrain! 👍

  • @justincourts8296
    @justincourts8296 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Tractor supply you can buy bolts and things by the pound

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      👍. I looked at agrisupply who does the same but just wanted grade 8 bolts. Probably overkill but since I was not sure I went with the best.

  • @aroundtown976
    @aroundtown976 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks again Rodney l found your parts list .

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      👍

  • @arp_catchall
    @arp_catchall 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks for the breakdown. You inspired me to go copy you 😁

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nice 👍

  • @JasonGreenberg
    @JasonGreenberg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You're the man, this is exactly what I'm going to do

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Been working good! 👍

  • @joetripp123
    @joetripp123 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love the tilt array. Nice break down Rodney. Maybe you can automate it to one-direction daily track sometime in the future. Those panels are at a great price right now. Under $0.40 / watt is good and this is at $0.26. I'd love to see how Bifacials would do on this raised array though, that would be awesome.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Might try some out at some point. But these at this deal I could not pass up on. I actually paid more than they are now and thought that was a deal.

  • @USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity
    @USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Use 3/4” gray pvc spacers around perimeter, cut slightly less than panel frame thickness. Keeps support under that big square flat washer.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good idea 👍

  • @raygibson1295
    @raygibson1295 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If you want to make adjustments to the angles add a winch so you can easily make adjustments.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It is easily moved by hand but a good idea. 👍

  • @flopackrc5452
    @flopackrc5452 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Posted your channel and videos on Facebook great stuff rodney

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      👍

  • @billlastly5858
    @billlastly5858 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great videos! Could you do a total cost of your entire system, and when you expect it to pay for itself?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Will do 👍

  • @frankthomas6250
    @frankthomas6250 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Add your lag bolts and washers for securing the unistrut to the parts list. Thanks

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      👍

  • @Hansen710
    @Hansen710 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    insted of using 6x6 i would add around 45 degree angle support beams sitting right under where the panels are fixed to the 4x4
    and fix the support beams to the ground
    that will add more strength then adding more thickness and it should be cheaper in both wood and bolts
    those support beams will stand presure better from the angle the wind it blowing, then a vertical 6x6
    even a tree can fall in a storm, because it is not supported the right places
    you are also fighting the strength of the ground not just a matter of 6x6 or 4x4
    better to be pushing on the ground then pulling
    the biggest strength you will find in a big metal tube at the scrabyard
    after all we dont build skyscrapers out of wooden structure for the same reason
    i got my self some tubes from old street lamp poles for example from a friend that collects metal
    i would also argue that with bifacial panels the adjustment should probetly happen in a rotation like it was a clock on the ground
    ofcourse with some sort of solar tracker
    you have less shading if the panels are right in the middle of the sun all the time
    vertical bifacial panels produce more thanks to cooling and less shade on the backside..
    compared to a normal racks no matter if you adjust for the angle of the sun

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good ideas! Just didn’t want to take up more ground room. Has been fine in 60mph winds so far. Should be great for most situations with a 6x6 since the 4x6 is working good. With enough force anything can break but just want to mitigate as much as possible with a smaller ground footprint.

  • @chuckyaunk6040
    @chuckyaunk6040 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Rodney, going to build something just like this and was wondering about putting a 12 volt linear actuator to move it to adjust. How far does it move from summer to winter settings?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I have been looking at some from vevor as well. Would need to get an exact measurement but several feet for my area. More than the sizes I have looked at so far

  • @OFFGRID_Trucker
    @OFFGRID_Trucker 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Those are some impressive numbers. Based on them, have you calculated out your ROI..? GREAT price on a 320w panel. I have 2 arrays here.. 1160 (4x290's) and 1200 (6x200's bifacial on a dual axis tracker. video on my channel. 400Ah lithium. I am powering this pc on solar power now. I'm loving it.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No I have not calculated roi since self reliance and peace of mind was my only goal. I could do it at some point just to see though. Yes I love my solar as well!

  • @somedudeandacomp
    @somedudeandacomp หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Have you thought about using a solar tracker system with this design?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I didn’t. I do not know what equipment would be needed with this design. May do some research when I get a chance. Thanks

    • @somedudeandacomp
      @somedudeandacomp หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@rodneyhunt Thank you for making your video I used this as sort of a brainstorm to make my own panel mount. I mounted a single row of 10 blade bifacials 395 watt panels.
      I have been looking into linear actuators paired with single axis control units with anemometers on them to tilt flat during windy weather. I didn't build mine as sturdy as yours. I used 2x4's and 4x4 posts, but I only went 1 high with my panels.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nice! Sounds like it should be fine. Interesting idea with the actuators if you can get it to track the sun

  • @aflipzkidn
    @aflipzkidn 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Did miss the video where you mounted your panels to this rack?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I think the install video should show it

  • @douglasrobbie9998
    @douglasrobbie9998 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Not that you need another array.... How would the same set up, but with
    (a)the posts on a N/S configuration with heights of posts equal to a 30 deg angle
    (b) same set of panels
    (c) 1 axis (E/W) solar tracker with Heavy Duty 18" linear actuator, small 12v bat, wind speed indicator (to make array go horizontal at a predetermined wind speed)
    So that you pick up sunrise light (morning is usually when off grid bats are lowest SOC) and sunset light. Wonder how this would do? Not as complicated/expensive as 2 axis, but tracks E/W movement of sun automatically.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Interesting idea! Maybe if I had an ideal location. My main array already has the prime real estate so we will see

  • @baja3571
    @baja3571 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I don't see where you have the square flat pieces that are holding your panels down are on your list. What are those? I have the rest in my HD cart. I did get your box of zinc washers but those are round.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I thought I added the unistrut washers. You should be able to find 1/4 unistrut washers

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      In the description it says unistrut 1/4 nuts, washers(will add unistrut to make it clear), and bolts

  • @chucktrotter9699
    @chucktrotter9699 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    5.2.24 Great price break down. You left out the cement prices.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I seem to always miss something with these. Thanks!

  • @colormaker5070
    @colormaker5070 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I started ordering parts today for ground mount tilt. I am using 4 (6x6) 3 foot into ground 10 foot apart. How many bags of concrete did you use for each post? I am going to mount 18 370 watt panels each weigh in at 50 lbs.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I can’t remember. I purchased extra bags but really depends on how wide your hole is. 2-3 bags should definitely be enough depending on your ground

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Each post

    • @colormaker5070
      @colormaker5070 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@rodneyhunt Perfect 4 it is per post. I decided to post every 7 foot for a total of 5. I need Beefy as I am in Florida. Thank you for the hardware tips I got some high strength 7/8 bolts from Mcmaster.

  • @chuckyaunk6040
    @chuckyaunk6040 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great informative video and pretty much what I’m going to do for my array. Just bought 13 370 watt panels and one 6000xp. Wonder if greasing the bolt shaft would make it even easier to tilt? Maybe even a sleeve insert of some type with grease?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Good idea! It has been working better lately

  • @iowac
    @iowac 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hey question the bolts you used to mount unistrut to wood is that in parts list? The bolts in list i think r for the solar panel to unistrut?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No forgot that. They are bolts but not sure of size off hand. Drilled a pilot hole first before installing. Will look for size

    • @iowac
      @iowac 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@rodneyhuntgrin i was at store going through parts and i was like ok hold up i missing sumting lol good thing i had access to your videos i got 3/8 x 4” lag bolt i also thought you bolted solar panel from the frame the holes and i was looking at the 2 1/2 and thinking this is too long, after frwmi utes went back to video warched where you put the superstrut on wood then we saw the square unistrut washers so went back to aisle with unistrut and looked for the square pieces, bingo. I was like yee haw now we in biz. 😂🙌🏼

    • @iowac
      @iowac 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@rodneyhuntthanks again! Really appreciate it

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thats great

    • @tomcoryell
      @tomcoryell 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hey Rodney, Thank you for taking the time to document your build. It’s very kind of you to help others. Great job!

  • @NeptuneAlpheccaChild
    @NeptuneAlpheccaChild 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    commercial tilt array that size is about 2000 ducks

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That’s about right depending on shipping. Can definitely save money with DIY but they are nice!

    • @NeptuneAlpheccaChild
      @NeptuneAlpheccaChild 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@rodneyhunt i'm at 35.6Lat so i'll be going from 35deg winter to 75deg summer tilt... you've really swung me around to wood versus steel, i was gonna hire a welder and set drill pipe in concrete and do drill pipe cross rail and way way more money and i've got no real wind issues... thanks a million KWH Mr. Hunt !!

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad to help! Thanks

  • @ricksasala7153
    @ricksasala7153 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    All your fasteners into the pressure treated. I am wondering why nit use stainless steel. The chemicals in the wood are very corrosive to steel fasteners. Especially the main bolts which the unit pivots.

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Great point! Didn’t find straight stainless steel bolts at the time. Could probably use a lower grade bolt so I can change out to stainless steel one day. These are zinc yellow chromate plated I believe

  • @raygibson1295
    @raygibson1295 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Also, is it legal to build one of these in your yard?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Depends if you are free in you county, state, etc. So just depends

    • @Hansen710
      @Hansen710 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@rodneyhunt i just got a aproval for building a rack last month
      i had to wait 4 weeks because i live within 20 km from a nature reserve
      i had to wait and make sure a fishing club 16km away did not fear for the frogs and lizards in their area for example
      about 20 different clubs and authorities had a chance to complain about my plan thanks to the nature reserve (EU natura 2000 )
      the people i live next to have nothing to say 😂

  • @robertd6925
    @robertd6925 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Whats your total wattage output now?

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think about 16k total.

  • @jackmontgomery3131
    @jackmontgomery3131 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    have you seen these?
    10 x Talesun 400W Bifacial Solar Panel (Black) | Up to 500W of Bifacial Gain | TP7G54M
    $1,080.00

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah so many great deals on panels. The whole pallet of 36 is $3600. 👍

    • @jackmontgomery3131
      @jackmontgomery3131 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      i was comment about the Renogy that were 400 watt the price was $550 a panel these are $540 for 5 panel. i was thinking you might have an ideal why some are so much cheaper, is it because there "cheaper"? Hey thanks for the answer! @@rodneyhunt

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Renogy has a different business model. They ship panels individually so they charge more for that convenience.

    • @527yfz450r
      @527yfz450r 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I just purchased a pallet of the talesuns couple weeks ago, I was told they are on closeout. That is why the price is low... get em while you can

    • @jackmontgomery3131
      @jackmontgomery3131 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@527yfz450r Thanks for your reply, have you hooked them up? what kind of power,are you getting what they claim?

  • @shotdeaddaniels6549
    @shotdeaddaniels6549 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Absolutely no reason to go with more than a half inch or 5/8 Bolt

    • @rodneyhunt
      @rodneyhunt  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You can definitely use anything you are comfortable with! I wanted to go with my best option for those 3 points