This patch feels like a slap in the face as a day 1 lily player. The last patch barely did anything for her as well, but like, buffing the target combo in such a way that its still always useless, if she had good stuff I'd be like whatever, who cares, but when she got almost nothing, the fact they wasted time on her target combo only to not actually make it viable... its frustrating. And then basically every other bottom tier character gets major buffs, which I'd normally be excited for, but because they ignored lily, it just means she goes from a bottom tier, to maybe THE bottom tier...
They did Lily DIRTY! I hate that everyone gets buffs for their buffs while Lily gets the short straw. I'd take USF4 T Hawk at this point 😒 Thank god for your god tier Lily play you give the rest of us the courage to keep swimming up this waterfall.
I remember spending so long of SFV's life waiting for FANG to get lights into meterless claws. For years he could only do it into EX. Then they finally gave it to him and he still wasn't top tier. Some characters just have to wait until the game is almost over to get any buffs that give them basic functionality.
I'd like to add that the new cr.lp being +6 means as a counter hit(drive rush check) you can go into heavy windclad spire which of course let's you restock or lvl 1 in the corner and it has a little more range than st.lp.
Lily's got the same problem Honda has: Capcom just can't buff her for pro players because she's a ladder demon. Way too much of her power budget is in C.HP and Wind Stock Spire and everything else in her kit is just kinda left out to dry. I'd trade so much power out of those two moves for even a hint of sauce. Stuff like wind-clad condor dive being faster and giving you a juggle on punish counter, so if you read a fireball and neutral jump you can light them up when you've got the stocks for it... or letting you do air normals after wind-clad tomahawk buster... if you're not going to make it invulnerable than you might as well give us *something* to want to use wind stocks on it for. Make the first swing of her target combo go farther so you can use it when you read the opponent is going to jump back away from your command grab. Hell, if we're going *really* nuts then air condor spire could be a bit of a meme that I'd love to see. I'd gladly pay the price of losing crouching god punch and win-clad spire if it meant that the entire rest of her kit was worth using.
Lily's neutral buttons and very good too though, especially the cancelable ones. B+HP, st.MK, HK, cr.MK, MP. Hard to get in on Lily players who know her buttons. She just lacks good combo conversions without windstock.
@@Un1234l The problem is that C.HP just does too many things in her kit. It's her go-to out of drive rush button, her best anti-air normal, her best poke and her best combo starter outside of punish counter, where S.HP just does a little better thanks to the crumple. Sure, it's risky to whiff in neutral, but so are all of her other pokes up until S.MK, which is very stubby for a poke.
@@kevingriffith6011 cr.HP is pretty shi as an anti air compared to DP. So slow and lots of times I get hit because I do it too late or too early trying to compensate for the slowness. No problem with the normal AAs on other characters like Ken or Ryu or Kimberly. Also, st.MK is her best cancellable poke by far. Very good whiff punishing tool due to its speed and hitbox. It's how I get most of my offence in against good players. It's not supposed to be a poke. That's b+HP, cr.HP, HK or even condor spire. People often stuff out or jump cr.HP at the range you'd like to poke with it.
@@Un1234l The "people often stuff or jump the C.HP at the range you'd like to poke with it" can be said about *all* of her long-range poke buttons. S.MK is *short* for a poke. Counterpoke maybe, but by the time you can use it to hit your opponent they've already gotten in on you. As for "DP is better", I did specify anti-air *normal*. DP is not a normal. I can't think of a single normal in Lily's kit that is a better anti-air than C.HP, so C.HP is her best by default, and it does the job respectably.
@@kevingriffith6011 Like I said, cr.HP is not very reliable as an AA due to it's slowness and hitbox. At least for me. So many times I see the jump, I press it, and it's too early or too late, and I eat a big combo for it. Zero problems with the other characters. Cammy, Kimberly, Ken, Ryu, Guile, etc. st. MK is not supposed to be used as a poke. It's for whiff punishing people trying to whiff punish your longer buttons. And it's an excellent tool for that job. cr.HP is too slow and punishable at a distance people like to jump compared to the longer ranged b+HP. That's what I've personally experienced.
Clear, concise analysis of patch and how insignificant it is for Lily. Hopefully some matchups at least got better this patch. Keep up all the hard work!
You're literally carrying me through my first serious try at a fighting game. And I love Lily. Sad that as I learn and get better, the patches make me feel like the goalposts are constantly getting moved. Anyways, I'll keep grinding. Thanks for all you do.
Hold it down for the Thunderfoot Tribe bro 🔥🦅🔥 Even when they don't give us the nods, we still defy the odds... They left her out to dry but you've proven that strong winds blow down strongholds. Hold your head up fam
Again brother, just wanted to tell you you are the greatest! In terms of dispatch, and this damn game, I don’t know why they don’t give all girl any love at all. And for me, it seems like her movement is a little slower. I don’t know if it was the person I was playing, but things weren’t coming out like they used to. For some reason, I cannot get a command grab out for shit now. I did not have the time to go Ling, and get my practice on, but the game seems a little stiffer to me. I’ll see this morning, when I get a chance to play. Otherwise, keep kicking ass with our girl Lily! And thank you for the content.
What I really want is a total overhaul of her windstock system but I know we'll never get that. I'm happy with where she is for the most part, honestly. I'd like her backjump divekick back and for the ability to use a non-OD divekick out of an OD DP to help her damage and conversions not be so costly all the damn time, but that's more or less it. I genuinely feel like if they give her anything super saucy she becomes a nightmare. I'd also lowkey like if it they put her overhead on medium punch instead of heavy. Always been said and obv it is purely quality of life but her heavy punch button has way too many command normals.
Just want her to have an actual true invul reversal. Imo the entire cast should always have one. Certain things like that i feel like should always be universal imo. It will be the closest way to balance one aspect of the game.. Maybe I'm wrong tho but it's weird to me that some have em and some don't. Especially when you look at top tiers they usually have all the best stuff.. Great fire balls, invul dps, throw loops, good walk speed, etc.
It does feel like they are scared of making her too strong Tbh that's why I still hope to see a Evil Lily or something so they can go crazy with her without worrying
I'd be ok with her adjusted DP if it came with a buffed st hk. Like on punish counter causes a wall bounce that brings the opponent at the perfect range to get the second hit dp into lvl 1
I've been playing Lily for 5 months and truly agree that she was neglected a lot, and it looks like the dev team does not want her to be good. I don't think any major buffs like spending 1 wind and OD version of DP make an invincible reversal would make her become a meta or anything, but they still not giving anything to her. It's quite sad. But will play her anyways. Cheers, Lily squad!
I'm a bit worried after that patch. They did something devs do when they don't really understand a character. They nerfed a route with a weird unnecessary buff. Lily's enhanced DP was her only auto-timed safe jump option off a clean hit on the ground. The 2 issues were the tight spacing and it only worked vs standing. Lily can't force stand with 4HP/2HP so they could have changed that. But instead, they "buffed" her DP so that you can't even frame kill into safe jump (+52 at best) AND it's still standing specific... BUT... I honestly don't know if it's new but 6HP actually forces stand now. I thought Lily was the only character in the game without a forced stand/crouch normal. I may have missed that because 6HP is kinda wack (and FAT/Supercombo still don't mention it). But if that's actually new, it means they gave her a well needed tool to stabilize a safe jump route while "buffing" it into not being a safe jump route anymore. Great. So yeah, counter hit 4HP into DR 6HP gives you the perfect spacing for 2LP xx DP even vs crouching. The jump cancel nerf is infuriating because it's risky and not easy to do. But they justified it with this: "This is one way we're reassessing defensive techniques, which is part of our overall plan to tune down certain aspects of the game" Maybe they nerfed jump cancel and Cammy's od dive because they're gonna also nerf throws/throw loops? Please....
I hoped they would improve Wind Stock-Buster so I got my wish, I guess. I played about 30 matches today and got a follow up from a single hit buster, like, twice.
There are only 2 characters in the character select screen that Capcom says is easy: Lily and Marissa. Don't expect either of these characters to ever have a high ceiling as well.
F what you're talking about. I need her EX dive to be safe AND fly out further when not at the Top of a jump. You cant sneak in her dive many times because you end (i end up) up barely missing their feet & totally punishable because the enemy is doign what most of them do..... walking away from Lily baiting a (jump in, jump, spire, dive, ex rush in). Your comments about wake up crouching medium kicks is very true. When i press cr.MK she whiffs with those stubby legs.... hell give LIly high heels for range or she should just use her warhammers for cr.MK. HELL, a wind stock should change her cr.MK from a short foot attack to a ranged Warhammer attack.
Is the L.dp practical though? I feel like if you're not exactly next to the opponent the L.dp wifs. Or is there a combo that guarantees that it will hit?
As a Manon player I feel your pain bruv. We had to wait a year for them to fix a damn bug with her level 2. They out here handing out pointless buffs that don’t really change anything but they just allow top tier characters to just stay at the top. Be more exciting to see bottom tier characters in tournament play more often rather than the same usual suspects.
Capcom said that you can now follow up her DP with another DP (two windstock) in the corner but aren't you better off confirming into medium condor spire then DP instead? it does more damage and she could do that already before the patch.
So many people laugh and say Jamie with all his drinks isn't even top 3. Well Lily with an invulnerable dp isn't even top 10. I get capcom is not keen on her being too good but at least make the updates fun.
She didnt need any buff she was already stupid good and they still gave her something in her c.hp juggle the fact u tried to put freaking juri in the same bracket as lily is beyond crazy
Why would i have to play juri to know shes good? I main lily bruh newphew just won a major he in capcom cup juri aint top 5 but she top 8 forsure all the top players say juri is good i dont know what you talking bout she been good the whole time too
Tay bro I'm not that great at fighting games I can admit that. But I know when something is off dude and you hit the nail on the head. Just 20 minutes into this patch and I just said she got nothing. This dp change is so useless and the damage route makes it not worth doing. True you can set up mind games but you can get the same thing with her regular windclad stock route with spiral
Not gonna lie here, I see Lily the most weakest character in terms of all in SF6, not only in gameplay but yes in her design too I still prefer T.Hawk instead of her
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Teaser] | 05-12-24](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P5Uto6e453w/mqdefault.jpg)
I also forgot to mention in the video that the new light dp with wind stocks whiffs on crouching opponents but a lot of you already know that
This patch feels like a slap in the face as a day 1 lily player. The last patch barely did anything for her as well, but like, buffing the target combo in such a way that its still always useless, if she had good stuff I'd be like whatever, who cares, but when she got almost nothing, the fact they wasted time on her target combo only to not actually make it viable... its frustrating. And then basically every other bottom tier character gets major buffs, which I'd normally be excited for, but because they ignored lily, it just means she goes from a bottom tier, to maybe THE bottom tier...
Lily forgotten and neglected again. I swear we're the middle child of this game.
She is the least played character, so Capcom dont care
Bro she really got T.Hawk's legacy LMAOOOOO
I'm not a Lily player, but when I wanna learn about Lily changes, I know who to come watch and you delivered again! Thank you!
High Tier thumbnail c'mon Capcom give Lily some real love
The fact they buffed jab into Buster yet it's STILL inconsistent. And Condor Dive is still barely a move. Oh well, maybe in 6 months.
They did Lily DIRTY! I hate that everyone gets buffs for their buffs while Lily gets the short straw. I'd take USF4 T Hawk at this point 😒 Thank god for your god tier Lily play you give the rest of us the courage to keep swimming up this waterfall.
I remember spending so long of SFV's life waiting for FANG to get lights into meterless claws. For years he could only do it into EX. Then they finally gave it to him and he still wasn't top tier. Some characters just have to wait until the game is almost over to get any buffs that give them basic functionality.
I'd like to add that the new cr.lp being +6 means as a counter hit(drive rush check) you can go into heavy windclad spire which of course let's you restock or lvl 1 in the corner and it has a little more range than st.lp.
Lily's got the same problem Honda has: Capcom just can't buff her for pro players because she's a ladder demon. Way too much of her power budget is in C.HP and Wind Stock Spire and everything else in her kit is just kinda left out to dry. I'd trade so much power out of those two moves for even a hint of sauce.
Stuff like wind-clad condor dive being faster and giving you a juggle on punish counter, so if you read a fireball and neutral jump you can light them up when you've got the stocks for it... or letting you do air normals after wind-clad tomahawk buster... if you're not going to make it invulnerable than you might as well give us *something* to want to use wind stocks on it for. Make the first swing of her target combo go farther so you can use it when you read the opponent is going to jump back away from your command grab. Hell, if we're going *really* nuts then air condor spire could be a bit of a meme that I'd love to see.
I'd gladly pay the price of losing crouching god punch and win-clad spire if it meant that the entire rest of her kit was worth using.
Lily's neutral buttons and very good too though, especially the cancelable ones. B+HP, st.MK, HK, cr.MK, MP. Hard to get in on Lily players who know her buttons. She just lacks good combo conversions without windstock.
@@Un1234l The problem is that C.HP just does too many things in her kit. It's her go-to out of drive rush button, her best anti-air normal, her best poke and her best combo starter outside of punish counter, where S.HP just does a little better thanks to the crumple. Sure, it's risky to whiff in neutral, but so are all of her other pokes up until S.MK, which is very stubby for a poke.
@@kevingriffith6011
cr.HP is pretty shi as an anti air compared to DP. So slow and lots of times I get hit because I do it too late or too early trying to compensate for the slowness. No problem with the normal AAs on other characters like Ken or Ryu or Kimberly.
Also, st.MK is her best cancellable poke by far. Very good whiff punishing tool due to its speed and hitbox. It's how I get most of my offence in against good players. It's not supposed to be a poke. That's b+HP, cr.HP, HK or even condor spire. People often stuff out or jump cr.HP at the range you'd like to poke with it.
@@Un1234l The "people often stuff or jump the C.HP at the range you'd like to poke with it" can be said about *all* of her long-range poke buttons. S.MK is *short* for a poke. Counterpoke maybe, but by the time you can use it to hit your opponent they've already gotten in on you.
As for "DP is better", I did specify anti-air *normal*. DP is not a normal. I can't think of a single normal in Lily's kit that is a better anti-air than C.HP, so C.HP is her best by default, and it does the job respectably.
@@kevingriffith6011
Like I said, cr.HP is not very reliable as an AA due to it's slowness and hitbox. At least for me. So many times I see the jump, I press it, and it's too early or too late, and I eat a big combo for it. Zero problems with the other characters. Cammy, Kimberly, Ken, Ryu, Guile, etc.
st. MK is not supposed to be used as a poke. It's for whiff punishing people trying to whiff punish your longer buttons. And it's an excellent tool for that job. cr.HP is too slow and punishable at a distance people like to jump compared to the longer ranged b+HP. That's what I've personally experienced.
lmao the thumbnail
Clear, concise analysis of patch and how insignificant it is for Lily. Hopefully some matchups at least got better this patch. Keep up all the hard work!
You're literally carrying me through my first serious try at a fighting game. And I love Lily. Sad that as I learn and get better, the patches make me feel like the goalposts are constantly getting moved. Anyways, I'll keep grinding. Thanks for all you do.
I was hoping you would make a video surrounding Lily this patch. 🙏🏾
Oro,s theme is awesome!
Love the thumbnail and vid 🔥
Hold it down for the Thunderfoot Tribe bro
🔥🦅🔥 Even when they don't give us the nods, we still defy the odds... They left her out to dry but you've proven that strong winds blow down strongholds. Hold your head up fam
Again brother, just wanted to tell you you are the greatest! In terms of dispatch, and this damn game, I don’t know why they don’t give all girl any love at all. And for me, it seems like her movement is a little slower. I don’t know if it was the person I was playing, but things weren’t coming out like they used to. For some reason, I cannot get a command grab out for shit now. I did not have the time to go Ling, and get my practice on, but the game seems a little stiffer to me. I’ll see this morning, when I get a chance to play. Otherwise, keep kicking ass with our girl Lily! And thank you for the content.
Thank you for the quick vid on this, always wanna see your take. I've been grinding Lily and climbing up Master but this patch is really discouraging
Ken is miserable to fight against but hes allowed to do his thing let Lily live.
I'm so confused about Capcom's strategy with Lily...she was my most anticipated character. Capcom is so weird sometimes.
Capcom knows she is at the bottom of the popularity list
What I really want is a total overhaul of her windstock system but I know we'll never get that. I'm happy with where she is for the most part, honestly. I'd like her backjump divekick back and for the ability to use a non-OD divekick out of an OD DP to help her damage and conversions not be so costly all the damn time, but that's more or less it. I genuinely feel like if they give her anything super saucy she becomes a nightmare.
I'd also lowkey like if it they put her overhead on medium punch instead of heavy. Always been said and obv it is purely quality of life but her heavy punch button has way too many command normals.
Ryu face in the thumbnail
Just want her to have an actual true invul reversal. Imo the entire cast should always have one. Certain things like that i feel like should always be universal imo. It will be the closest way to balance one aspect of the game..
Maybe I'm wrong tho but it's weird to me that some have em and some don't. Especially when you look at top tiers they usually have all the best stuff.. Great fire balls, invul dps, throw loops, good walk speed, etc.
Well said brother
It does feel like they are scared of making her too strong
Tbh that's why I still hope to see a Evil Lily or something so they can go crazy with her without worrying
Thanks for the video. Maybe one day, capcom will give Lily something.
I'd be ok with her adjusted DP if it came with a buffed st hk. Like on punish counter causes a wall bounce that brings the opponent at the perfect range to get the second hit dp into lvl 1
I've been playing Lily for 5 months and truly agree that she was neglected a lot, and it looks like the dev team does not want her to be good. I don't think any major buffs like spending 1 wind and OD version of DP make an invincible reversal would make her become a meta or anything, but they still not giving anything to her. It's quite sad. But will play her anyways. Cheers, Lily squad!
we surviving out here fam. hoping to see a decent lily buff one day lol
I'm a bit worried after that patch. They did something devs do when they don't really understand a character. They nerfed a route with a weird unnecessary buff.
Lily's enhanced DP was her only auto-timed safe jump option off a clean hit on the ground. The 2 issues were the tight spacing and it only worked vs standing. Lily can't force stand with 4HP/2HP so they could have changed that. But instead, they "buffed" her DP so that you can't even frame kill into safe jump (+52 at best) AND it's still standing specific...
BUT... I honestly don't know if it's new but 6HP actually forces stand now.
I thought Lily was the only character in the game without a forced stand/crouch normal. I may have missed that because 6HP is kinda wack (and FAT/Supercombo still don't mention it). But if that's actually new, it means they gave her a well needed tool to stabilize a safe jump route while "buffing" it into not being a safe jump route anymore. Great.
So yeah, counter hit 4HP into DR 6HP gives you the perfect spacing for 2LP xx DP even vs crouching.
The jump cancel nerf is infuriating because it's risky and not easy to do. But they justified it with this: "This is one way we're reassessing defensive techniques, which is part of our overall plan to tune down certain aspects of the game"
Maybe they nerfed jump cancel and Cammy's od dive because they're gonna also nerf throws/throw loops? Please....
Jesus I can't believe that got rid of jump canceling on throws. That was already difficult to do and the only redeeming thing to stop grabs
Just give Lily T-Hawk's gun!
I wanna see lk spire leave opponents standing and be +1 on hit. It would set it apart from the others and allow her to snowball after getting in.
I hoped they would improve Wind Stock-Buster so I got my wish, I guess.
I played about 30 matches today and got a follow up from a single hit buster, like, twice.
Still no significant change😔
Next patch for sure😢
Is there something I'm missing as to why they don't just make 6H>H>H special cancel-able at the end?
man no love for the lily
Sf6 not having stun bar has done nothing but made grapplers less scary
There are only 2 characters in the character select screen that Capcom says is easy: Lily and Marissa. Don't expect either of these characters to ever have a high ceiling as well.
Bruh they got bison as hard to use and hes easier than everyone to learn to use
F what you're talking about. I need her EX dive to be safe AND fly out further when not at the Top of a jump. You cant sneak in her dive many times because you end (i end up) up barely missing their feet & totally punishable because the enemy is doign what most of them do..... walking away from Lily baiting a (jump in, jump, spire, dive, ex rush in). Your comments about wake up crouching medium kicks is very true. When i press cr.MK she whiffs with those stubby legs.... hell give LIly high heels for range or she should just use her warhammers for cr.MK. HELL, a wind stock should change her cr.MK from a short foot attack to a ranged Warhammer attack.
I swear Capcom is just too scared to actually buff Lily lol. Give her some actual help please.
Is the L.dp practical though? I feel like if you're not exactly next to the opponent the L.dp wifs. Or is there a combo that guarantees that it will hit?
As a Manon player I feel your pain bruv. We had to wait a year for them to fix a damn bug with her level 2. They out here handing out pointless buffs that don’t really change anything but they just allow top tier characters to just stay at the top. Be more exciting to see bottom tier characters in tournament play more often rather than the same usual suspects.
Capcom said that you can now follow up her DP with another DP (two windstock) in the corner but aren't you better off confirming into medium condor spire then DP instead? it does more damage and she could do that already before the patch.
No more jump cancel? That's wrong...
They need to give her ex dp invincibility like everyone else's lol
So many people laugh and say Jamie with all his drinks isn't even top 3. Well Lily with an invulnerable dp isn't even top 10. I get capcom is not keen on her being too good but at least make the updates fun.
Lily player here and I ache at the heart. Man low forward is useless
Juri is right next to Lily in this picture because she too hasnt received anything. :(
U crazy 😂
@ what buff did she get that was as meaningful as Kimberly’s or Ryu’s?
She didnt need any buff she was already stupid good and they still gave her something in her c.hp juggle the fact u tried to put freaking juri in the same bracket as lily is beyond crazy
@ tell me you don’t play Juri without telling me you don’t play Juri
Why would i have to play juri to know shes good? I main lily
bruh newphew just won a major he in capcom cup juri aint top 5 but she top 8 forsure all the top players say juri is good i dont know what you talking bout she been good the whole time too
Noti gang
She is bad for business. People fundamentally dislike the character.
6-4 Kimberly
So jump cancel doesn't work anymore vs throw loop?
Correct
@@ElChakotay man that's insane, what we have to do now to stop the pressure?
You can do ex dp since it's throw immune but it also loses to meaty attacks. Otherwise, wake up drive reversal or super is your best bet
Next patch : lily deleted from game
She definitely wont return ever again
lol bro sucked his teeth frame 1 of the vid😂. Also a Lily main and these changes were dry compared to the other cast.
That's not what that sound was but yeah hopefully she gets something good one day!
@@ElChakotay ah ok my bad lol; well i definitely sucked my teeth when i saw the patch notes smh.
Im so frustrated, these "buffs" are not it.
Tay bro I'm not that great at fighting games I can admit that. But I know when something is off dude and you hit the nail on the head. Just 20 minutes into this patch and I just said she got nothing. This dp change is so useless and the damage route makes it not worth doing. True you can set up mind games but you can get the same thing with her regular windclad stock route with spiral
Capcom hates Lily, thawk is the best.
Just be grateful you ain't an Ed player. Would you rather be the victim of vandalism or arson?
Not gonna lie here, I see Lily the most weakest character in terms of all in SF6, not only in gameplay but yes in her design too
I still prefer T.Hawk instead of her
Lily and manon now the worst chars
Good this character shouldnt be buffed she is annoying.
Every character in this game is annoying what you talking bout