I moved into a 3 story townhouse. I have 2 thermostats. How do I know which one covers what floors? Downstairs family room, 1st level kitchen, 2nd level living room, 3rd level bedroom. Total 1200 sq ft.
Great video, I inherited a dual zone system. Summer time its opposite in Canada, you cool the upstairs since we have basements, and the basements are naturally cooler being somewhat in the ground. Last summer my ac never went off once for the basement, but did upstairs for the day. I assume this system is saving me money, because usually if you have one zone your upstairs is cool, and your basement is freezing because you are pumping ac down stairs as well.
@@foxfamilyhvac Opposite in the winter here, if I set the basement to be a bit warmer and heat naturally rises, I can some times not have the heat ever be called for upstairs. Thats after awhile however and not on really cold days. It helps with the the smart thermostats like the Ecobees, you can really tweak your furnace settings, especially the furnace fan. I have the fans run 15 minutes every hour, heat called for or not, and that opens up the zones, allowing warm air to be moved around (or cool in the summer). Does it all save me money, I think so, but I dont have a previous experience with the system either. I can track it all with the app, and there are some days that I never have the a/c or heat ever turn on, just the fan moving air around.
Ive never seen a zoned system installed properly. Ever! Nor would I install one or try to change a single stage system to be zoned. But we install a few hundred ductless mini split systems a year. If you want to zone buy a system designed to zone. Or buy a conventional system with variable capacity ability.
pretty much, this is the dead truth. the only one I know of that was very close? the one I suggested that friends have the current system zoned for smaller rear addition with full basement... even after the builders were unsure if it would be enough, it worked out great and cost way less.
are zoned systems designed/able to take cold air from my first floor (63f) and send it to the 3rd floor for cooling demand (73f-> 71f)? Are typical zoned installations just controlled supply dampers, or do the returns also have dampers?
We have the opposite issue. To cool the upstairs from 71F to 65F it takes almost 2h in a cool day ( under 76F ). Also when the air is called upstairs it turns on the first floor as well :/
Greg, great job explaining a zone system. I have struggled to explain it to customers and GC’s for the last 10 plus years. Temperature swing should never look like a scary roller coaster on a graph. Humidity removal is 100% more important than having an oversized unit that will cool the house to store ice when ambient is 130 degrees.
If you have a two-story house and you want the whole house to be the same temperature and you're not going to be using zoning with just one thermostat how do you accomplish this and it works heating and cooling?
I want my 2 story to be same temperature.with a single thermostat one zone system this is difficult if not impossible. With a two thermostat fwo zone system I just set them Temps equal and let the zoning system do the work.
Let me ask what about when you walk into a 2500 sgaure foot house that wants 4 zones? In a commercial application which is what I know the most about you would have a static pressure bypass from return to supply. When the static climbs due to to many zones being closed the bypass opens. Or in the newer rtu you would see a vfd on the blower that would ramp down when it sees high static.
So going back to the example in the video - what is the correct approach if you want it to be 72 degrees in one room and 70 in the others, no matter what the outside temperature might be.
Great video, not a HVAC tech but more of a energy saving guy. My place is 2600 SF. Walkout basement then main level. Main floor has a 15 seer 2 ton. During the day set to 72 and after prime time all the way down to 68 during the night. Best part next day the main unit don’t even turn on till late afternoon or until the house warms up to 72. Basement is all open space. We run a ductless 12K always set to 70. Best part : light bill runs 200 bucks all summer long and we are very comfortable.
I have a 2 zone system in my 2 story house in FL. I turn on the AC upstairs zone during the day and it cools the downstairs since cool air does not rise and in the evening I turn off the upstairs zone and turn on the downstairs zone where our bedroom is . This works great for us retirees and when our kids visit we are not freezing our butts off. We may need a new AC system soon. The guy who did our zoning in such a way that both would not turn on together, It has to be either or . Unfortunately he is no more. He passed at a young age.
I like everything you’re saying so far but idk about leaving a floor at 85 degrees seeing the compressor will draw more amperage once it comes on spiking the electric bill and working the compressor harder. Also when you where talking about over sized units, I was waiting for you to talk about the lack of dehumidification due to the constant short cycling .
Greg, Your thoughts, on the following information. Here in San Antonio,TX, with the design temperature of 25 degrees delta t for cooling (100 degrees outdoors to 75 degrees indoors), and meeting all R value building requirements, I calculate 3 btus of cooling for cubic foot of living volume(i.e.area). Meaning some homes have 10 foot ceilings and some areas 12 ceilings and some 8 foot ceilings so the rule of thumb of 1 ton per 500 square feet is not a good idea. Return air grills and locations for ceilings higher than 8 feet is a subject for a later video. Thanks for the fine videos and looking forward to your PV systems videos.
I live in Texas with a zoned system . My home is 3000 sq ft . If i can save anyone from these wasteful systems I will sleep better . I bought a new home with a zone system . All I can say is that it’s a waste of money . Stat away from zoned systems. They are complete trash can systems . Let me explain . 1. When you have your fan system kick in you are using 1 fan for multiple rooms . When the motorized damper kicks on or off for a zoned area you will change the air pressure from all the other rooms . 2. Changes in pressure once the system starts turning on or off for all rooms will cause you headaches since it can blow harder or slower and it’s up to the ac system when that happens 2. Static dampers work great , if you use static damper . That’s a great way to regulate the air flow to other rooms to help even the amount of air for each room. Motorize dampers Trow your hard work out the window since it will fluctuate on you.
I have watched so many videos I have learned a lot about everything Hvac, except what to set my remote damper control on. I have a two level home, a DuroZone remote damper control dial on my wall upstairs, that says, open, 1/3, 2/3, close. I have seen videos of manual dampers that have contradicted each other about open or close. I have read all comments. I have had a company sell me a new unit and didn’t know what it was. That company has been ripping me off every year since. It would help me a lot if you can tell me what to set it for in the summer and winter. I wish You was here in N.C. You would have my business. Thanks for any information.
One phone app can control all wireless (wifi) zone thermostats. Other thermostat that Carrier makes can access all zones from each enabled thermostats and control all other zones. The upstairs T-stat controls all zones as well as the lower floor T-stat can access all other zones and control them. I prefer the phone app version, as long as all zone thermostats are from same manufacturer.
Nowhere can I find information on how to use my zone system. Brand new single level, 3-zone system. I heard different theories about the difference in temp. settings on each thermostat. Since I'm all over the house, I want a set temperature everywhere all day. Then I want the whole house cooler (or warmer in winter) with the Master bedroom different. In my previous house, I simply set the thermostat where I wanted. But in the new house, I have to go all around and set multiple thermostats multiple times a day. What a pain! Who thinks this is a good idea?
You are right on brother. I really liked this video and ur explanation about two zones. Which zone system do find most reliable for techs to install? Any literature on zoning u would recommend? Hvac tech from Nebraska, Tnx
I have a tri-level. They just switched me from two old furnaces to one HE furnace with zoning. Two thermostats. The upper and main level is always hot (jumping up to 75 or higher in the heat) and the lower and basement is cold (68 degrees). I thought I could heat the lower level when I am downstairs and especially when I am in the basement. Plus, put the a/c on for the main and upper level. They said no. The system will be damaged. It has be be heat everywhere, cool everywhere or cool on the main and off on the lower. Is that true? I can't heat the lower when I'm downstairs and keep it on cool for the main/upper level?
During Summer: Yes, u can heat down stairs with zone system. Place the upper floor thermostat on System Off and Fan Auto. This will allow the down stairs thermostat to have full control of heat/ cool options. Set to heat and warm up the lower floor. When it is warm enough, and u want to cool upper floor again, set lower floor thermostat to System to Off and Fan on Auto. Then, go to upper floor and set System to Cool and Fan on Auto.
Going to really disagree with you, I don’t think you have ever lived in a house with 2 floors and no zoning, but there can be a huge difference in temperature between the two floors. The point is to keep the house an even temperature. If you want to work the system and don’t live in half you house for the better part of the day, then sure knock yourself out, to me that sounds like a scheduling/comfort nightmare! But yes putting a single stage system on zoning is stupid however you set it up. (Minimum 2 stage, best would be VRV life, but now we are abandoning duct work.) Our market is likely significantly less energy sensitive though.
seems you missed explaining humidity removal and how it can make or break whatever temperature settings combined with the proper sizing of units and zoning! I liked it overall, the bloopers at end yup!, human-being, nobody is perfect. I'm sure "nowhere near", major emphasis!! lol :)
What I 'don't understand is', WHY.. Heat goes up, cold comes down and kinda like my bill.. between the 2 seasons.. HOT or COLD. Mrs. Jetson, doesn't care about the cost. 'She' just wants a system that works like SHE "likes it" (insert the voice of Jane Jetson here or Fiona from Shrek lol). "The outhouse again!!!" Why are systems, seemingly designed to 'fight' the nature of 'heat transfer'? Cold falls/ heat rises.. deal w/ it and IF you're gonna put 2 units on a 2 story home, make them work together to accomplish the same task.. OR atleast offer the 'option'.. cause.. homes, like clothes, are often grown out of and into.. (my opinion). Little 1's, live.. (hopefully) most of their youngest years.. at home, upstairs.. lol..in their rooms, stomping on the master bedroom ceiling.. (right?). Their little bodies don't have the capacity to cool like ours and of course their voices are designed as such to annoy parents. "I'm hot" or "it's hot in my room, I don't wanna go play in my room". So, then, add 3 baths.. 7 people, 4 bedrooms, 2 dogs, (no cats allowed.. didn't want the dogs either), plenty of wishful thinking about drinking and well. I want Mrs. Jetson, to be happy, so I can go onto something else. Spent $900 later on our ac systems w/ a heat pump too, we bought 10 months ago.. and NOBODY IS GONNA CRAWL under the house to move over levers to balance the system (yet, it's the only way to keep kids from messing w/ them), but me. 1 more thing to do.. when.. it's just so easy to get in my truck and go do ANYTHING (w/ max ac on the whole way) but consider all the FREE water I could get from the ac's running constantly to fill the pool (Mrs. Jetson just had to have for the kids that now sits squarely within my white vinyl picket fenced back yard.. .. hmm.... (amongst other things) where there's NO dog run.. and yet. .THEY DO... doo doo. I just want a system that WORKS w/ nature.. not against it. Can I get a "hell yeah"?
Great video and it completely makes sense. I guess people are watching this out of interest or to learn, and I’m no different. Im not disagreeing at all with what you’re saying but I do believe zoning can be a way to solve problems differently. I like the way you suggest they run and Jackson Systems has a video explaining of what I’m experiencing with my house. I know a manual J will be brought up and whatever but no matter what you do or maybe it is what you’re doing, there will always be that area or areas at different times that are warmer or colder. Here is a great video of a different approach for zoning. m.th-cam.com/video/Ux_gxTRqJig/w-d-xo.html Again , no disrespect, I think you’re videos are awesome
Great info! I think variable capacity compressors are a must for a zoned system.
I moved into a 3 story townhouse.
I have 2 thermostats. How do I know which one covers what floors? Downstairs family room, 1st level kitchen, 2nd level living room, 3rd level bedroom. Total 1200 sq ft.
Great video, I inherited a dual zone system. Summer time its opposite in Canada, you cool the upstairs since we have basements, and the basements are naturally cooler being somewhat in the ground. Last summer my ac never went off once for the basement, but did upstairs for the day. I assume this system is saving me money, because usually if you have one zone your upstairs is cool, and your basement is freezing because you are pumping ac down stairs as well.
Oh wow,. Great info. That makes sense with the basement
@@foxfamilyhvac Opposite in the winter here, if I set the basement to be a bit warmer and heat naturally rises, I can some times not have the heat ever be called for upstairs. Thats after awhile however and not on really cold days. It helps with the the smart thermostats like the Ecobees, you can really tweak your furnace settings, especially the furnace fan. I have the fans run 15 minutes every hour, heat called for or not, and that opens up the zones, allowing warm air to be moved around (or cool in the summer). Does it all save me money, I think so, but I dont have a previous experience with the system either. I can track it all with the app, and there are some days that I never have the a/c or heat ever turn on, just the fan moving air around.
Ive never seen a zoned system installed properly. Ever! Nor would I install one or try to change a single stage system to be zoned. But we install a few hundred ductless mini split systems a year. If you want to zone buy a system designed to zone. Or buy a conventional system with variable capacity ability.
pretty much, this is the dead truth. the only one I know of that was very close? the one I suggested that friends have the current system zoned for smaller rear addition with full basement...
even after the builders were unsure if it would be enough, it worked out great and cost way less.
are zoned systems designed/able to take cold air from my first floor (63f) and send it to the 3rd floor for cooling demand (73f-> 71f)? Are typical zoned installations just controlled supply dampers, or do the returns also have dampers?
We have the opposite issue. To cool the upstairs from 71F to 65F it takes almost 2h in a cool day ( under 76F ). Also when the air is called upstairs it turns on the first floor as well :/
Greg, great job explaining a zone system. I have struggled to explain it to customers and GC’s for the last 10 plus years. Temperature swing should never look like a scary roller coaster on a graph. Humidity removal is 100% more important than having an oversized unit that will cool the house to store ice when ambient is 130 degrees.
If you have a two-story house and you want the whole house to be the same temperature and you're not going to be using zoning with just one thermostat how do you accomplish this and it works heating and cooling?
I want my 2 story to be same temperature.with a single thermostat one zone system this is difficult if not impossible. With a two thermostat fwo zone system I just set them Temps equal and let the zoning system do the work.
Let me ask what about when you walk into a 2500 sgaure foot house that wants 4 zones? In a commercial application which is what I know the most about you would have a static pressure bypass from return to supply. When the static climbs due to to many zones being closed the bypass opens. Or in the newer rtu you would see a vfd on the blower that would ramp down when it sees high static.
So going back to the example in the video - what is the correct approach if you want it to be 72 degrees in one room and 70 in the others, no matter what the outside temperature might be.
Great video, not a HVAC tech but more of a energy saving guy. My place is 2600 SF. Walkout basement then main level. Main floor has a 15 seer 2 ton. During the day set to 72 and after prime time all the way down to 68 during the night. Best part next day the main unit don’t even turn on till late afternoon or until the house warms up to 72. Basement is all open space. We run a ductless 12K always set to 70. Best part : light bill runs 200 bucks all summer long and we are very comfortable.
I have a 2 zone system in my 2 story house in FL. I turn on the AC upstairs zone during the day and it cools the downstairs since cool air does not rise and in the evening I turn off the upstairs zone and turn on the downstairs zone where our bedroom is . This works great for us retirees and when our kids visit we are not freezing our butts off. We may need a new AC system soon. The guy who did our zoning in such a way that both would not turn on together, It has to be either or . Unfortunately he is no more. He passed at a young age.
What if I get a variable speed unit with zoning?
I like everything you’re saying so far but idk about leaving a floor at 85 degrees seeing the compressor will draw more amperage once it comes on spiking the electric bill and working the compressor harder. Also when you where talking about over sized units, I was waiting for you to talk about the lack of dehumidification due to the constant short cycling .
Greg, Your thoughts, on the following information. Here in San Antonio,TX, with the design temperature of 25 degrees delta t for cooling (100 degrees outdoors to 75 degrees indoors), and meeting all R value building requirements, I calculate 3 btus of cooling for cubic foot of living volume(i.e.area). Meaning some homes have 10 foot ceilings and some areas 12 ceilings and some 8 foot ceilings so the rule of thumb of 1 ton per 500 square feet is not a good idea. Return air grills and locations for ceilings higher than 8 feet is a subject for a later video. Thanks for the fine videos and looking forward to your PV systems videos.
I live in Texas with a zoned system . My home is 3000 sq ft . If i can save anyone from these wasteful systems I will sleep better . I bought a new home with a zone system . All I can say is that it’s a waste of money . Stat away from zoned systems. They are complete trash can systems . Let me explain .
1. When you have your fan system kick in you are using 1 fan for multiple rooms . When the motorized damper kicks on or off for a zoned area you will change the air pressure from all the other rooms .
2. Changes in pressure once the system starts turning on or off for all rooms will cause you headaches since it can blow harder or slower and it’s up to the ac system when that happens
2. Static dampers work great , if you use static damper . That’s a great way to regulate the air flow to other rooms to help even the amount of air for each room. Motorize dampers Trow your hard work out the window since it will fluctuate on you.
Outstanding content. I wish you were located in the Bay Area!
I have watched so many videos I have learned a lot about everything Hvac, except what to set my remote damper control on. I have a two level home, a DuroZone remote damper control dial on my wall upstairs, that says, open, 1/3, 2/3, close. I have seen videos of manual dampers that have contradicted each other about open or close. I have read all comments. I have had a company sell me a new unit and didn’t know what it was. That company has been ripping me off every year since. It would help me a lot if you can tell me what to set it for in the summer and winter. I wish You was here in N.C. You would have my business. Thanks for any information.
Is it possible to have only 1 thermostat control a multizone system?
One phone app can control all wireless (wifi) zone thermostats. Other thermostat that Carrier makes can access all zones from each enabled thermostats and control all other zones. The upstairs T-stat controls all zones as well as the lower floor T-stat can access all other zones and control them. I prefer the phone app version, as long as all zone thermostats are from same manufacturer.
Nowhere can I find information on how to use my zone system. Brand new single level, 3-zone system. I heard different theories about the difference in temp. settings on each thermostat. Since I'm all over the house, I want a set temperature everywhere all day. Then I want the whole house cooler (or warmer in winter) with the Master bedroom different. In my previous house, I simply set the thermostat where I wanted. But in the new house, I have to go all around and set multiple thermostats multiple times a day. What a pain! Who thinks this is a good idea?
You are right on brother. I really liked this video and ur explanation about two zones. Which zone system do find most reliable for techs to install? Any literature on zoning u would recommend? Hvac tech from Nebraska, Tnx
Thanks for sharing this information I’m trying to learn zoning and how to size ductwork and calculating it all. Much respect from newbie technician.
I have a tri-level. They just switched me from two old furnaces to one HE furnace with zoning. Two thermostats. The upper and main level is always hot (jumping up to 75 or higher in the heat) and the lower and basement is cold (68 degrees). I thought I could heat the lower level when I am downstairs and especially when I am in the basement. Plus, put the a/c on for the main and upper level. They said no. The system will be damaged. It has be be heat everywhere, cool everywhere or cool on the main and off on the lower. Is that true? I can't heat the lower when I'm downstairs and keep it on cool for the main/upper level?
During Summer: Yes, u can heat down stairs with zone system. Place the upper floor thermostat on System Off and Fan Auto. This will allow the down stairs thermostat to have full control of heat/ cool options. Set to heat and warm up the lower floor. When it is warm enough, and u want to cool upper floor again, set lower floor thermostat to System to Off and Fan on Auto. Then, go to upper floor and set System to Cool and Fan on Auto.
Going to really disagree with you, I don’t think you have ever lived in a house with 2 floors and no zoning, but there can be a huge difference in temperature between the two floors. The point is to keep the house an even temperature. If you want to work the system and don’t live in half you house for the better part of the day, then sure knock yourself out, to me that sounds like a scheduling/comfort nightmare!
But yes putting a single stage system on zoning is stupid however you set it up. (Minimum 2 stage, best would be VRV life, but now we are abandoning duct work.)
Our market is likely significantly less energy sensitive though.
Helpful video. Skip to 8 mins.
seems you missed explaining humidity removal and how it can make or break whatever temperature settings combined with the proper sizing of units and zoning!
I liked it overall, the bloopers at end yup!, human-being, nobody is perfect. I'm sure "nowhere near", major emphasis!! lol :)
Very informative Greg. Thank you
Hey Greg, you have been a great motivator for me. I’m actually getting ready to start my own hvac company. I would love to get some advice on revenue
lol, grand explanation of "anti-zoning" at the start :))
What I 'don't understand is', WHY.. Heat goes up, cold comes down and kinda like my bill.. between the 2 seasons.. HOT or COLD. Mrs. Jetson, doesn't care about the cost. 'She' just wants a system that works like SHE "likes it" (insert the voice of Jane Jetson here or Fiona from Shrek lol). "The outhouse again!!!" Why are systems, seemingly designed to 'fight' the nature of 'heat transfer'? Cold falls/ heat rises.. deal w/ it and IF you're gonna put 2 units on a 2 story home, make them work together to accomplish the same task.. OR atleast offer the 'option'.. cause.. homes, like clothes, are often grown out of and into.. (my opinion). Little 1's, live.. (hopefully) most of their youngest years.. at home, upstairs.. lol..in their rooms, stomping on the master bedroom ceiling.. (right?). Their little bodies don't have the capacity to cool like ours and of course their voices are designed as such to annoy parents. "I'm hot" or "it's hot in my room, I don't wanna go play in my room". So, then, add 3 baths.. 7 people, 4 bedrooms, 2 dogs, (no cats allowed.. didn't want the dogs either), plenty of wishful thinking about drinking and well. I want Mrs. Jetson, to be happy, so I can go onto something else. Spent $900 later on our ac systems w/ a heat pump too, we bought 10 months ago.. and NOBODY IS GONNA CRAWL under the house to move over levers to balance the system (yet, it's the only way to keep kids from messing w/ them), but me. 1 more thing to do.. when.. it's just so easy to get in my truck and go do ANYTHING (w/ max ac on the whole way) but consider all the FREE water I could get from the ac's running constantly to fill the pool (Mrs. Jetson just had to have for the kids that now sits squarely within my white vinyl picket fenced back yard.. .. hmm.... (amongst other things) where there's NO dog run.. and yet. .THEY DO... doo doo. I just want a system that WORKS w/ nature.. not against it. Can I get a "hell yeah"?
Great video and it completely makes sense. I guess people are watching this out of interest or to learn, and I’m no different. Im not disagreeing at all with what you’re saying but I do believe zoning can be a way to solve problems differently. I like the way you suggest they run and Jackson Systems has a video explaining of what I’m experiencing with my house. I know a manual J will be brought up and whatever but no matter what you do or maybe it is what you’re doing, there will always be that area or areas at different times that are warmer or colder. Here is a great video of a different approach for zoning.
m.th-cam.com/video/Ux_gxTRqJig/w-d-xo.html
Again , no disrespect, I think you’re videos are awesome
Awesome thanks for sharing! I'll check it out.
Respectfully almost everything you stated in this vid is wrong uninformed and will less to very unhappy customers I suggest retraining