Great video! I'm always tempted and looking somewhere within this range. The Miata depression seems pretty surprising! Figured they'd be faster than that, and would show more variance, like other cars. They have the most consistent depreciation of any car I think you've ever featured.
If you’re looking at Porsche the 981 series is the best value of all. The Cayman / Boxster platform shares over 60% of its parts with the 991- 911. It’s built on the same assembly line, and is the same quality. It handles better and most importantly costs far less.
Used sports cars are massively overvalued in today’s market. People are being stupid and buying Porsches just because they’re a Porsche and that’s all they can afford. A standard depreciation curve is the cars values is about half after 5 years but covid boosted the value of those cars by about 30% and now they’re coming back down. The market in 2024-2025 is going to see massive drops in prices for 5+ year old cars because people will realize spending $80k on a 10 year old car is a bad idea.
lmao i wanted to buy a 991.1 carrera gts with around 70k miles it's such a good drivers car. And its the last year for na 911s I think it'll keep its price
@@Mrhappy33664 bro I saw in a "2005 Porsche 911 CARRERA 997.1" with some modifications in PH marketplace that has 17k mileage. It's worth around 107K dollars though...
I bought my dream car(Gen 1 R8 V10 manual) in the summer of 2020 right before the pandemic spike in all car values. The value of my car went up 50-60% in less than a year and leveled off but I'm so glad I bought when I did! Gen 1 R8 V8's are such a good deal right now, esp if you can find one with a gated manual. The values of those already bottomed out.
How does the LC500 compare ? It's not a surprising trend. The depreciation curve flattens after 5 years (or should) and with a sports car, it will probably still continue to decline as it's less (or niche) demand. It's a risk with sports cars. It's bought to fill a desire rather than a need and is impractical for day to day use. Think of it as a big toy, which it is. If it turns out to be an investment, that's serendipity rather than a perspicacious decision !
@@fourwheeltrader thank you. That would be amazing. You’re the best and I love the analysis and data points. It makes the conclusion very objective. I feel a lot of other content creators present their views subjectively and possibly with some manufacturer kickbacks/perks.
You should absolutely include cars like the GR Supra, NSX, and GT-R. Those are known to hold value and even appreciate after so many years so it’s much more interesting in my opinion.
I have an Alfa 4C and it is a dream come true! It is the perfect car to enjoy in the weekends and at the end if you want to sell you can have the same spent or loose some few dollars that doesn’t match the pleasure to drive one of them.
I just bought my second used Corvette in the past two years and prices haven't gone down much over the past year. C8s are now selling about 10 percent under sticker for one with lower miles, whereas they were selling way over sticker for used two years. Still high at 10 percent below sticker for a car that's three or four years old.
The only Porsches that will appreciate in the long run are the air cooled ones 964 and 993, imho. And perhaps the GT models. Why? Because they made something like 250.000 991 models alone. Both 964 and 993 production numbers were something like 60-65K and very large part of them are cabrios. MUCH rarer than water cooled.
The Boxters are holding their value well.I can understand that for the 4.00L especially.F Types depreciated more but now the very last batch every to be manufactured have been sold in the UK, depreciation will slow down and they will become a desirable classic.
Japanese(S2000, Miata, 86) and American models(Mustang, Camaro, Corvette) tend to be cheaper for maintenance and repairs for older models so cheaper to own after the depreciation hit.
This was a great list of affordable sports cars. From what Ive seen, the Civic Type R's have a relatively stable price trend, but this is just my eyes. It would be interesting if you were able to put the Civic Type R through your analysis both the FK8 and the FL5 should have some decent sample sizes
They are mostly still priced above 80k (the treshold for this video). You can see the trend for the 991.2 over here: th-cam.com/video/ifAmbtNAwwM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PtuSuajKSx6VxE3s
Any high performance variant 911 (GT/RS/GTS/equivalent and Turbos) from any generation, from the original 50-year-old 911 gen to the current 992 still carries high prices.
Would love to see a video on Lexus LC500 with its v8 5.0 N/A motor. I’m cross shopping LC500 vs 911, I know it sounds a bit strange to cross shop these two but they have some similarities. I’m looking for great GT car both imo meet my criteria.
Fantastic vid. You are really great, no one else doing this. Cars are investments, maybe not usually good ones but they are investments. Anytime you chose to buy a 50k, 100k, 200k+ item you have chosen an investment. Thank you
Some brands/models gain in value to the point of amazing: Look at the Mk IV Supra ('93-'98--excellent condition, low mileage cars go for $200k-$250k) and the LFA (it originally cost $375k--try to find one under $900k!).
*Looking for an analysis of a different car? Let me know the name of the car or check the playlists below* *More market analyses* Porsche: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66dKJQug4xwskaR8tqUEtg_i.html Ferrari: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66fjX4_e99Lu5gN2rlOtBhrE.html McLaren:th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66dlx4PN9VpM2-gSLKB0WVFn.html Audi: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66fTWOIizW1gGdyJNvxyLXNm.html Mercedes: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66fljQWz7PVLNUiggjZ5FGv_.html&si=3dyHoeOeVE4c1uR5 Chevrolet: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66c-lJQmVKZ_mEKWaln3CcRH.html&si=V-CHGuBXNecc3OZp General car market updates: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66eE4KxbIXZHxMf637v0CsVy.html
I sold my base 987.2 Cayman just before the big post covid price dip. Then, a year later, I got a 981 base for the same price I sold the 987.2 for. I got very lucky with my timing. Now that things are back to normal depreciation rates. The 981 seems to be a smart car to stick with long-term.
The price correction for sports cars in America haven't adjusted yet. It's going to take another year or two, but buying new is still the only rational option for many sports cars.
You clearly did not do your homework.. The Genesis G70 is the highest depreciated car on the market. Fully loaded it is $60k after tax. You can buy one only 1 year later, less than 20k miles, clean title for under $45k. That's alot of performance and luxury for less than $45k only one year later. I got super lucky and bought mine for $45k. Same model year and only 4 months old. Name me another car that costs $60k dollars with over 375hp and fully loaded with all the bella and whistles that you can buy for under $45k in just one year... Now if you go out 2 years, you can easily pick one up for under $40k.. Thats nuts for what you're getting. Compared to all the other cars on your list, the G70 has 10x more tech and luxury features and is half the price. Not to mention you can slap a $500 tune on the G70 and it'll smoke any car on this list easy
I got a new Z at MSRP, may trade up to a Lotus Emira once interest rates fall. For those that bought one of the new sports cars at MSRP a 5-10% loss shouldn’t hurt too bad. If you paid a mark up though you probably have a good bit of negative equity
I need a bit more data on the Giulia QV before i can include them. Unfortunately the data quality for the GT350R is too low, I am tracking the GT500 though.
great idea get the Mercedes. the check engine light will be your new best friend in the cockpit. G wagon and Amg GTS both had this problem repeatedly. never again will i get a MB.
To anyone that has truly tracked your car. It is the most abusive thing you can do to your vehicle. Unless you have money to just burn. Buy an older Miata and learn and enjoy the experience on one of them. If you have money and rally do enjoy tracking your can and want more than a Miata, get a Lotus Elise or Exige. Those things modified can keep up with anything ever made. Again, I did it once and felt I almost ruined my car.
Surprised you don't mention that manuals are depreciating much slower than automatics. This is most evident in cars that have both, but it seems like auto only cars also tend to depreciate faster. With the advent of electric cars being very fast, I think people are realizing that 0.2 seconds a lap from an auto isn't worth the sacrifice in driving enjoyment.
Only in specific cases (eg ferrari 360, f430) there is a difference in depreciation between manuals and automatic. There is a full video about somewhere on the channel.
@@fourwheeltrader Seems about every single car I've looked at, with the possible exception of very cheap commuter cars like a Nissan Versa, or Mitsubishi Mirage. But I bought a 987 Cayman S and the manuals were right at $5k more expensive than the auto's pretty much across the spectrum. I am now looking at V8 Vantages and it is the same story...a 6-8k delta for manuals. It might be less in others, but it seems any sports/performance manual that I can see commands a higher price than an auto.
Just because a car is depreciating slower doesn’t mean it is a better financial decision. If the initial cost is 2x another car you might still be losing more money.
@@hpickettz34 lmao. You will see. New porsche coming al most every 911/cayman saying "ohhh they lost 2 cylinder" " ohhh they add turbo" " ohh they use electric steering " and all old gen crash like hell. ALWAYS. so, check your speech after 2025.
@@CeeJay591he covers the Lexus LC500 which is an excellent GT car. Personally my daily driver is a 911 997.1 Turbo coupe, but the LC500 is on my radar when I get a bit older
@@SignalCorps1 He covered it once, while Porsche has been covered many times. I certainly think it should have been mentioned here in this video, particularly as he does mention repair costs as a factor regarding what to invest in.
@@CeeJay591 The LC500 before 2022 indeed could have been included as they are priced under 80k. I have several videos on the LC500 or videos where it is included as a comparison. This is the latest one: th-cam.com/video/kP4NDFUm0DE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ytHpinL8JRuySdF7
honestly your videos deserve more views, they are excellent!
Owner and buyers view
I second this. He's why I bought my Macan Turbo!
Great video! A few interesting sports cars in this range are lexus Lc500, Maserati gran turismo, mustang gt350/R, Honda civic type R, Toyota gr Supra…
LC will go up in price or stagnate since 2025 will be it's last iteration. They're scarce already and will become even more as time moves on.
Great video! I'm always tempted and looking somewhere within this range. The Miata depression seems pretty surprising! Figured they'd be faster than that, and would show more variance, like other cars. They have the most consistent depreciation of any car I think you've ever featured.
If you’re looking at Porsche the 981 series is the best value of all. The Cayman / Boxster platform shares over 60% of its parts with the 991- 911. It’s built on the same assembly line, and is the same quality. It handles better and most importantly costs far less.
Used sports cars are massively overvalued in today’s market. People are being stupid and buying Porsches just because they’re a Porsche and that’s all they can afford. A standard depreciation curve is the cars values is about half after 5 years but covid boosted the value of those cars by about 30% and now they’re coming back down. The market in 2024-2025 is going to see massive drops in prices for 5+ year old cars because people will realize spending $80k on a 10 year old car is a bad idea.
lmao i wanted to buy a 991.1 carrera gts with around 70k miles it's such a good drivers car. And its the last year for na 911s I think it'll keep its price
should i just chill and wait for the market to drop
@@Mrhappy33664 bro I saw in a "2005 Porsche 911 CARRERA 997.1" with some modifications in PH marketplace that has 17k mileage. It's worth around 107K dollars though...
@@Mrhappy33664that’s a car that will go up not down
Cars are selling for very cheap on cars and bids.
I bought my dream car(Gen 1 R8 V10 manual) in the summer of 2020 right before the pandemic spike in all car values. The value of my car went up 50-60% in less than a year and leveled off but I'm so glad I bought when I did!
Gen 1 R8 V8's are such a good deal right now, esp if you can find one with a gated manual. The values of those already bottomed out.
Is it back to pre pandemic levels?
@@Jay-xr3sb not for the gated manual models. Pre-facelift R-tronic models probably have dipped down back to pre-pandemic levels.
Man you did the right thing. That is a "neversell"
How does the LC500 compare ? It's not a surprising trend. The depreciation curve flattens after 5 years (or should) and with a sports car, it will probably still continue to decline as it's less (or niche) demand. It's a risk with sports cars. It's bought to fill a desire rather than a need and is impractical for day to day use. Think of it as a big toy, which it is. If it turns out to be an investment, that's serendipity rather than a perspicacious decision !
Amazing content! Can’t beat the value of a 911. I hope later in the year you could do R8 again since it’s now stopped production officially.
Thanks. I will probably do the R8 in July.
@@fourwheeltrader thank you. That would be amazing. You’re the best and I love the analysis and data points. It makes the conclusion very objective. I feel a lot of other content creators present their views subjectively and possibly with some manufacturer kickbacks/perks.
Wow, can’t believe the gamut of cars covered in this one video. Thanks for the data driven analysis as always
You should absolutely include cars like the GR Supra, NSX, and GT-R. Those are known to hold value and even appreciate after so many years so it’s much more interesting in my opinion.
Need to do a video focusing on fun convertibles with the summer coming up (Miata, Boxster, Mustang, Mini, F-Type, Z4, 911, Corvette, Camaro, etc.)
Did you say you're putting on a Lotus video next week?
Fantastic analysis.
As a phyisicist I‘m always happy when people know their statistics and present interisting data/info the way it actually is!
Can you do a video on sport sedans such as the CT4/5 blackwing, bmw M3-4-5, Audi rs line, ect.
I have an Alfa 4C and it is a dream come true! It is the perfect car to enjoy in the weekends and at the end if you want to sell you can have the same spent or loose some few dollars that doesn’t match the pleasure to drive one of them.
Probably the most beautiful car in the last 20 years.
@@norwegianblue2017❤
I just bought my second used Corvette in the past two years and prices haven't gone down much over the past year. C8s are now selling about 10 percent under sticker for one with lower miles, whereas they were selling way over sticker for used two years. Still high at 10 percent below sticker for a car that's three or four years old.
The only Porsches that will appreciate in the long run are the air cooled ones 964 and 993, imho. And perhaps the GT models. Why? Because they made something like 250.000 991 models alone. Both 964 and 993 production numbers were something like 60-65K and very large part of them are cabrios. MUCH rarer than water cooled.
Love my 2023 Porsche Spyder. It’s insane. Plus, it’s holding is value very well. So, cheaper cars are not really cheaper in many cases.
Cant use a 1 year old car to judge anything
@@livinglife1089 the 2020s are doing fine as well. Still selling for MSRP
Spyder is strong
Evora 400 here! Absolutely love it!!
I bet the LC500 shoots up in value the second they stop making em.
The Boxters are holding their value well.I can understand that for the 4.00L especially.F Types depreciated more but now the very last batch every to be manufactured have been sold in the UK, depreciation will slow down and they will become a desirable classic.
The insights depend heavily on the quality of your data. Where did you compile this data from?
Love your videoes. Can you do Supra Mk4 + Mk5?
I am thinking of buying a 2021 Porsche 718 gts. Would that be a smarter buy over a base 911?
No!
Japanese(S2000, Miata, 86) and American models(Mustang, Camaro, Corvette) tend to be cheaper for maintenance and repairs for older models so cheaper to own after the depreciation hit.
have been waiting for a video like this! options for the peasants!!!
I love your data driven videos
This was a great list of affordable sports cars. From what Ive seen, the Civic Type R's have a relatively stable price trend, but this is just my eyes. It would be interesting if you were able to put the Civic Type R through your analysis both the FK8 and the FL5 should have some decent sample sizes
I’m looking to buy an FL5 and it’s crazy that the FK8 has held its value so well. They go for the same price as a brand new FL5. Absurd
Did not see my 991.2. they seem to holding up too. Something nice about a twin turbo!!
They are mostly still priced above 80k (the treshold for this video). You can see the trend for the 991.2 over here: th-cam.com/video/ifAmbtNAwwM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PtuSuajKSx6VxE3s
@@fourwheeltrader Thanks. Your analysis is awesome!!!!
Any high performance variant 911 (GT/RS/GTS/equivalent and Turbos) from any generation, from the original 50-year-old 911 gen to the current 992 still carries high prices.
How about combining this data with the reliability of the same cars and plotting that on a graph?
Do you know where to find reliable data sources for this that break it down on model level?
Would love to see a video on Lexus LC500 with its v8 5.0 N/A motor. I’m cross shopping LC500 vs 911, I know it sounds a bit strange to cross shop these two but they have some similarities. I’m looking for great GT car both imo meet my criteria.
The lc500 is included here: th-cam.com/video/kP4NDFUm0DE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=e9QNp2sXmQF_N7YC
The elises and exiges have held up very well as well
@PhuckTH-cam-dw7su Ive been eyeing an exige. Even the 'weaker' ones are 50k euro
could you do one on the g8x m4/m3?
Def need the m3 with how they have been dropping recently and the deals everywhere on m4’s
Fantastic vid. You are really great, no one else doing this. Cars are investments, maybe not usually good ones but they are investments. Anytime you chose to buy a 50k, 100k, 200k+ item you have chosen an investment. Thank you
Some brands/models gain in value to the point of amazing: Look at the Mk IV Supra ('93-'98--excellent condition, low mileage cars go for $200k-$250k) and the LFA (it originally cost $375k--try to find one under $900k!).
Nissan GTR market please!
It really depends on if you're buying before or after the depreciation.
Do you have a video covering recent Lotus Evora GT depreciation?
I will include it in next week's video.
@@fourwheeltrader Thank you so much! It was a great video!
*Looking for an analysis of a different car? Let me know the name of the car or check the playlists below*
*More market analyses*
Porsche: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66dKJQug4xwskaR8tqUEtg_i.html
Ferrari: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66fjX4_e99Lu5gN2rlOtBhrE.html
McLaren:th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66dlx4PN9VpM2-gSLKB0WVFn.html
Audi: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66fTWOIizW1gGdyJNvxyLXNm.html
Mercedes: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66fljQWz7PVLNUiggjZ5FGv_.html&si=3dyHoeOeVE4c1uR5
Chevrolet: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66c-lJQmVKZ_mEKWaln3CcRH.html&si=V-CHGuBXNecc3OZp
General car market updates: th-cam.com/play/PLkx3WmwEN66eE4KxbIXZHxMf637v0CsVy.html
I sold my base 987.2 Cayman just before the big post covid price dip. Then, a year later, I got a 981 base for the same price I sold the 987.2 for. I got very lucky with my timing. Now that things are back to normal depreciation rates. The 981 seems to be a smart car to stick with long-term.
The price correction for sports cars in America haven't adjusted yet. It's going to take another year or two, but buying new is still the only rational option for many sports cars.
Lots of data! Great video. Any thoughts on the current Toyota Supra?
Not yet, but i will probably start to include then in q3 or q4.
excellent video ! but I miss Models like SLK 55 (R171/ 172) and SL55 /63 R230/R231
You clearly did not do your homework.. The Genesis G70 is the highest depreciated car on the market. Fully loaded it is $60k after tax. You can buy one only 1 year later, less than 20k miles, clean title for under $45k. That's alot of performance and luxury for less than $45k only one year later. I got super lucky and bought mine for $45k. Same model year and only 4 months old. Name me another car that costs $60k dollars with over 375hp and fully loaded with all the bella and whistles that you can buy for under $45k in just one year... Now if you go out 2 years, you can easily pick one up for under $40k.. Thats nuts for what you're getting. Compared to all the other cars on your list, the G70 has 10x more tech and luxury features and is half the price. Not to mention you can slap a $500 tune on the G70 and it'll smoke any car on this list easy
You clearly did not read the video title.
I got a new Z at MSRP, may trade up to a Lotus Emira once interest rates fall. For those that bought one of the new sports cars at MSRP a 5-10% loss shouldn’t hurt too bad. If you paid a mark up though you probably have a good bit of negative equity
I am seeing lightly used z400 performance in mid 40s
Please keep doing what your doing. Super valuable
What about the Audi TT ?
Where do you get the data?
I was hoping this was finally the video for the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio and the Mustang Shelby GT350R..!
I need a bit more data on the Giulia QV before i can include them. Unfortunately the data quality for the GT350R is too low, I am tracking the GT500 though.
Audi rs5 v8 please
Look at what 98/ 2001 integra Type Rs go for. Originally stickered at $24,500 . Now they're 50k to 90k.
Thanks for the video! Hopefully you will do new video soon on various Tesla models
Still waiting on you to do one on the Porsche Cayenne
That little video snippet of the shop with the confederate flag during the conclusion was crazy tho…
Would love an S2000 analysis that breaks out US market AP1/AP2
I recently started to track them but it still takes a long time before they will feature in a video.
Can we please get a video on the Dodge Viper market??
Would love to see an analysis of audi rs5
Supra mk5???
C7 Corvette update please now with C8 having 4 models. Thanks
Coming up soon.
We need a g80 video between manual rwd and xdrives 😅
Still waiting to hear your source 😊
Fantastic video.
2017 Porsche 718 base that’s what I’ve got and it’s great!!!
Can you do maserati gt please
great idea get the Mercedes. the check engine light will be your new best friend in the cockpit. G wagon and Amg GTS both had this problem repeatedly. never again will i get a MB.
GC8 Impreza 2.5 RS next please
wheres the pontiac solstice
To anyone that has truly tracked your car.
It is the most abusive thing you can do to your vehicle.
Unless you have money to just burn. Buy an older Miata and learn and enjoy the experience on one of them.
If you have money and rally do enjoy tracking your can and want more than a Miata, get a Lotus Elise or Exige. Those things modified can keep up with anything ever made.
Again, I did it once and felt I almost ruined my car.
I see 2005, 2006 honda s2000 with low mileage going well over $40000, which is higher than it's brand new price...
The S2000 would fit perfectly in this video. I started to track them but it will still take a while before they appear on the channel.
VIPER pls
No analysis on Lexus LC500??…😢
You can find it over here: th-cam.com/video/kP4NDFUm0DE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PK-0heTvBfszVLoV
Surprised you don't mention that manuals are depreciating much slower than automatics. This is most evident in cars that have both, but it seems like auto only cars also tend to depreciate faster.
With the advent of electric cars being very fast, I think people are realizing that 0.2 seconds a lap from an auto isn't worth the sacrifice in driving enjoyment.
Only in specific cases (eg ferrari 360, f430) there is a difference in depreciation between manuals and automatic. There is a full video about somewhere on the channel.
@@fourwheeltrader Seems about every single car I've looked at, with the possible exception of very cheap commuter cars like a Nissan Versa, or Mitsubishi Mirage.
But I bought a 987 Cayman S and the manuals were right at $5k more expensive than the auto's pretty much across the spectrum.
I am now looking at V8 Vantages and it is the same story...a 6-8k delta for manuals.
It might be less in others, but it seems any sports/performance manual that I can see commands a higher price than an auto.
Buy a Porsche
I did!
@@dBsdecibels. Same here…never look back
I did 3 times
Yep. I didn’t buy mine for the depreciation, but it’s a nice bonus!
So over priced
🐧 MB SLK 350 R172 AMG-Line (2011 - 2016)
I didnt have to watch this video to know Lexus Acura Porsche
BMW M4 holds it price really well.
that z06 does not depreciate at all for the time being
Just because a car is depreciating slower doesn’t mean it is a better financial decision. If the initial cost is 2x another car you might still be losing more money.
Ct4 Blackwing and ct5 Blackwing
Thx
Miata, still the answer!
Porsche ✅
Wheres the Lexus F's? 😤
If you're buying used, hard to beat the Chevy Camaro SS 1LE or ZL1 1LE for value.
Where is the GR Supra?
I do not have enough data on the Supra yet. Will include them in Q4.
Supra?
Started to track them, they will feature in Q4 i think.
Good values :
Z4 M340 or Supra 2019
S5 or RS5 phase 2
Graphs need a title
718 and 981 will crash after new gen 718(983) releases, you should know that...
New gen is electric, nobody's is buying that shit, 718, 981 values will rise.
@@hpickettz34 lmao.
You will see. New porsche coming al most every 911/cayman saying "ohhh they lost 2 cylinder" " ohhh they add turbo" " ohh they use electric steering "
and all old gen crash like hell. ALWAYS.
so, check your speech after 2025.
Ferrari ❤
PORSCHE
Not counting the mc20, Maserati is always the worst. Jaguar is always bad. Porsche is always the best
Get you a nice GT S
Buy a Supra and enjoy the heck out of it.
Any 911>any supra
Without watching the video, the correct answer is always buy Porsche
Mk5 supras
Type R
Svo my choice......
Buy toyota lexus porsche
I would agree, but we rarely see Lexus or Toyota mentioned here (the GR 86 is really a Subaru).
@@CeeJay591he covers the Lexus LC500 which is an excellent GT car. Personally my daily driver is a 911 997.1 Turbo coupe, but the LC500 is on my radar when I get a bit older
@@SignalCorps1 He covered it once, while Porsche has been covered many times. I certainly think it should have been mentioned here in this video, particularly as he does mention repair costs as a factor regarding what to invest in.
@@CeeJay591 The LC500 before 2022 indeed could have been included as they are priced under 80k. I have several videos on the LC500 or videos where it is included as a comparison. This is the latest one: th-cam.com/video/kP4NDFUm0DE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ytHpinL8JRuySdF7