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Wow, your really comparing what God willingly and lovingly put HIMSELF through with what man sadistically does AGAINST another person. Not the same at all, the opposite even. Is this sick? God determine a man to make his son kill another man? That's what you are saying when you make God out to be the author of evil.
Again, Jesus willingly laid His body down on the cross, willingly allowed to be beaten to a bloody pulp and comparing that with an evil man torturing and raping a woman AGAINST her will. One brings about life, the other death. How is that the same?
If God, in His infinite power and wisdom were to create a being in His image and likeness, including the ability to make their own choices, could He not maintain and keep intact His Sovereignty? See, when you allow someone to make their own choices, rather than control every decision they make, good or bad, your hands are clean of any wrongdoing but if you control their every decision how is it not the puppet master to blame for any wrongdoing?
Consider the following from the Christian EAST! The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love! Philippians 2:12-13; Titus 2:11; 1 Timothy 2:3-6 The order is, Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration) Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all! John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8 It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen! Luke 9:35; Ephesians 4, 13; Romans 8:29 These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!" 1 Corinthians 15:10 Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5 But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved! 1 Timothy 2:3-6 In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all! This is Christus Victor! Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Colossians 1:20 God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 But the choice to love God remains in all people! John 7:17; 11:35 The divine order is: 1) Enabling Grace for all! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31 3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)! John 20:31 What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ! Philippians 2:12-13; John 6:65, 12:33-33; Titus 2:11 The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace! Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4 The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love! 1 John 4:8 God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace! God predestined them to be like Christ! Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:4-5 God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices! To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven. To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell! The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice! John 3:16 Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity! Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all! And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent! Acts 17:30-31; Romans 1:20
Amen Jeff amazing video God is sovereign over everything and in control and we need to just put our faith and trust in Him and do His will our lives our the best in His hands and He knows best
This teaching is biblical and it’s so sad that someone would deny it “ for the very fact that it’s so comforting knowing that he has a purpose for everything that takes place in our lives!
Jeff Durbin should of studied the book of life in Bible school 🤣🤓 every humans name is written in the book of life when there babies, therefore everyone is predestined to the choice of Salvation, when they get to a certain age they then can reject Jesus with there free will and there name will be blotted out of the book of life, Jeff is preaching a doctrine of the devil
@@EricBaxter-f2k No, Calvinism is not Biblical, and no, God does not control our actions. Calvinists badly misunderstand (or simply reject) the Bible, and God's sovereignty doesn't refer to His controlling us because He absolutely doesn't. God's sovereignty refers to His having jurisdiction over us, period.
@@waholoopesorry74I don’t see where He was speaking about the end of time only. What about the parable of the sower and seeds? 3 out of 4 places where the seeds fell did not survive.
@@kennybryson6542 He has a postmillennial viewpoint in regards to eschatology. Christ will have dominion over the Earth before the church is resurrected, and Jeff believes most in those times will come to believe in Jesus. He has several videos on this topic
@@kennybryson6542in th entire context of the Bible every baby ever born has there name written in the book of life, making everyone predestined to the choice of salvation, when they get to a Certin age they can reject jesus and there names get blotted out from the book of life ole Jeff Durbin should of Studied the book of life in Bible study 🤓
@@DH-vy8hw God does not decide, though, who will accept Christ. Christ loves us all. He atoned for us all, and salvation is offered to us all. We either accept or reject Christ.
Romans 9, if understood as Leighton Flowers explains it, makes so much more sense and is more beautiful than any Calvinist interpretation. Romans 9 is not about salvation, but God's redemptive plan and the people He's elected to bring it about. Paul is talking to hardened Jews who crucified the Messiah, and they must accept that was the role that God chose them to play.
That's because Flowers is qualified to exegete the scripture, unlike many Calvinists "theologians" who are like 5-yr old wannabe mechanics disassembling and reassembling an engine, only to find a whole box of leftover parts once they're done. Then they have to convince themselves why those parts aren't really needed.
@@thomasthepromise8430 It's so funny that non-reformed believers accuse reformed believers of handling the scripture in a way that the non-reformed person actually has to do in order to not come to the straightforward conclusions that reformed people do.Just watch the debate between Flowers and James White on Romans 9.Dr. White went first and went through the chapter verse by verse and drew his interpretation from a straightforward reading of the chapter without going to any other verses in the Bible to support his interpretation.When it was Leighton's turn he did not exegete the chapter and bounced around to other scriptures to try to make his case for his interpretation.
@@Brenda-qo4ko what you described White doing is called eisegesis, the exact opposite of exegesis. Proper exegesis must be done hermeneutically, which involves applying the particular passage being studied into its proper context. In other words, it is utterly irresponsible to study Romans 9 without considering how it fits into the context of the whole letter, and the whole letter within the context of the whole counsel of scripture. And that's what Flowers is doing, thus he is practicing proper hermeneutics and exegesis. White is reading his own philosophical system into Romans 9, then making Romans 9 defend his philosophical worldview. I really hope you can see the difference.
Charles Stanley was a false teacher, who rejected this very doctrine, and never taught on it. He also never publicly rebuked his son, who is a heretic, and false teacher, as well. When so-called pastors go beyond, or reject "take away" from scripture, they are not gatekeepers of the faith. It didn't matter that Charles was Andy's father, they both profess Christ, and therefore should be held accountable to their scriptural errors and false teachings. That includes calling out heresy, whether they be your family member or not. Jesus said that "if you are not willing to forsake lived ones to follow Me then you are not worthy of me!"
Predestination is NOT about the salvation of lost people. It’s about the guaranteed future of SAVED people. Predestination doesn’t speak to who is saved or not. Rather, it speaks to the ‘DESTINY’ of those who ARE SAVED/elect. It speaks to God’s ENDS for the elect who are ALREADY IN CHRIST THROUGH FAITH (Believers). It is the BELIEVERS who are the ones who love God, and who are therefore foreknown by Him. IN CHRIST they possess redemption and the forgiveness of sins by faith. BELIEVERS are predestined by God. *It does NOT say that unbelievers are predestined TO BE believers.* Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and NOT ONCE IS IT REFERRING TO SALVATION. In each case the passage clearly says WHO is being predestinated and TO WHAT they are being predestinated to. In all those passages ask your self WHO is being predestined and WHAT are they being predestined to? *Not once is it an unbeliever.* *Not once is it predestined to salvation.* BELIEVERS are predestined to inherit salvation, to be justified and to be brought into glory. EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST. EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS: EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY: ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
Cliff Cartwright Predestination hinges on being SAVED. SAVED people are chosen to be Holy and blameless IN CHRIST, are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS, predestined to be to the praise of His glory and predestined to be conformed to His image
Aaron Pilkey Nonone can go to Jesus unless it is granted. No one in the flesh can please God. Is believing in Jesus pleasing to God? Yes. Man cannot do that in the flesh. You have to be born again with the Spirit to go to heaven. That is all God. Flesh is useless. 👉 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. And he said, “This is why I told you that 👉👉👉no one can come to me unless it is 👉granted👈 him by the Father.”” John 6:63, 65 ESV Jesus makes this crystal clear 👉 “All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and 👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉no one knows the Father except the Son and 👉anyone to whom the Son 👉chooses 👈to reveal him.” Matthew 11:27 ESV Can’t get any clearer than that.
S Hopson You said: You have to be born again with the spirit to go to heaven.” Reply: Yes exactly. No one here is arguing against that so not quite sure what lead you to post the obvious. You said: “That is all of God.” Reply: Again, I’m not quite sure why you’re making these obvious statements that I agree with. Are you actually ignorant enough to think I don’t believe this? You said: “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” Reply: Again, no one here is arguing against this so not quite sure what your point is.
S Hopson You quoted Matthew 11:27. Can I ask you why you willfully chose to leave out the very next verse? Matthew 11:27 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Come unto me, 👉👉 all 👈👈ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Couldn’t be any more clear. God has called EVERYONE. YOU: Come unto me only those who I’ve secretly chosen JESUS: Come unto me ALL who are weary and heavy laden. Could t be more clear who Jesus chooses to reveal the Father to. ANYONE who comes to Him! 👈👈👈 John 6:37 37 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; 👉👉👉 AND him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 👈👈👈 REVELATION 22:17 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And 👉WHOSOEVER WILL, 👈let him take the water of life 👉 FREELY.👈 Couldn’t be more clear. My only question to you is do you prevent people from coming? Revelation 22:17 says LET HIM COME. 👈👈 Do you let them come or do you put a tone of bondage ba I on their necks and tell them they can’t come unless they’ve been chosen? Take of the water of life FREELY 👈 QUESTION: Do you put a price on it? Do you put a price on this water of life that you have to be chosen in order to drink from?
Sproul is a Western reformed theologian! Consider the following from the Christian EAST! The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love! Philippians 2:12-13; Titus 2:11; 1 Timothy 2:3-6 The order is, Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration) Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all! John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8 It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen! Luke 9:35; Ephesians 4, 13; Romans 8:29 These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!" 1 Corinthians 15:10 Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5 But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved! 1 Timothy 2:3-6 In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all! This is Christus Victor! Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Colossians 1:20 God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 But the choice to love God remains in all people! John 7:17; 11:35 The divine order is: 1) Enabling Grace for all! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31 3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)! John 20:31 What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ! Philippians 2:12-13; John 6:65, 12:33-33; Titus 2:11 The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace! Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4 The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love! 1 John 4:8 God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace! God predestined them to be like Christ! Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:4-5 God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices! To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven. To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell! The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice! John 3:16 Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity! Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all! And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent! Acts 17:30-31; Romans 1:20
@@victoriat9145 The only work that saves us is Christ's work on the cross. While He had foreknowledge on who will be His, His grace still is shown to all when He knocks on the unbelievers heart.
Completely agree. We have free will, but in God's infinite knowledge and being (not limited or constrained by space or time), He knows how we will act before we do.
@@Anthony-vx6cs What do you mean by free will? Because if God creates with foreknowledge, how is that any different than predestination? He knew what would happen and He didn't change anything about it whilst creating; thus, everything that has ever happened and will happen was part of the plan in creation. If you mean we have ultimate, autonomous, freedom in our choices and have the capacity to choose God over ourselves, then I'm sorry but you believe in a works based religion which is heresy. No one will boast remember? But if we can of our own freewill choose God then there is righteousness found in us. Are we not dead in sins and trespasses? None choose God, NO NOT ONE. We're only free in the sense that we freely choose what we want, but what we want is never God. Only God can save, and He saves us by changing our hearts, changing our nature, and humbling us, and the way He does that is through His Word.
Jeff says at 6:18 that, "I think, personally, that the largest mass of humanity will be given grace." I've heard Jeff mention this before in another video, which escapes me at this time, but his statement causes me to think on Matthew 7:13 which, in my mind, seems to indicate an opposite position. I don't expect Jeff to see this comment and/or respond to it, but perhaps someone else who shares Jeff's opinion can help me to understand his point of view?
aceblade that’s a good point that verse, but I’ve always kinda agreed with him just because your faith being small will still be enough and the fact that you cannot lose your salvation so right there that’s a lot of grace God gives to us.
aceblade I realize you are looking for opinions that agree with Jeff's but this bothers me greatly, I actually cannot accept Jeff's opinion on Grace, the final judgement is God's perfect Justice and totally clashes with Jeff's warm and fuzzy hopes for a free pass, Jesus is the free pass that many will reject amen
Common grace is that you are alive now, while you should be in hell already. That is grace. More than that. God gives you many good things in life. That is underserved grace. While God gives many people common grace, grace to salvation is given only to a random, only for few. Grace leading to salvation through faith. Saving Faith is God's grace. Faith is a gift. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
@@underwaves75 Hi Mike,I gave you a thumbs up,although I have not go through all the references you gave.I made a comment on a video from Leighton Flowers the thing that amazes me is how educated theologians struggle to interpret the scriptures which were written by simple fishermen and sheep herders,the video you posted just confirm what I was wondering about these clever scholars,the wise becoming foolish. I appreciate your concern,but be glad that I do question these clever ones and do find a lot of falsety amongst them.I stopped belonging to a ''church'' for almost 7 years and just trust the Lord thru His Spirit for growth in Him and His word,God Bless.
@@chrisamandadeysel5117 The Bible is God’s word. Literally God breathed… “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 Not just works of fisherman and shepherds as you said.
I am new to this channel and have spent the last few days listening to several podcasts. Last night I listened to one in which, when speaking about the sovereignty of God and salvation, you said: “I believe it’s POSSIBLE for God to do anything He wants and... and save the world.” You went on to point out that God said He was going to do it, "which makes a fire-breathing post-millennialist." That really struck me, especially in light of what I thought your message was in other podcasts. Today I was listing to the last of the 20 files I downloaded, sort of randomly, and heard you say: “The judgment coming of Christ happened exactly as the Lord Jesus said. So when John says, in the New Testament, in the book of Revelation, he’s coming soon, he’s coming quickly, brothers and sisters he MEANT it. And the glory that we have ahead of us , as Christians, is 1 Cor 15. He’s reigning now; he’s putting all his enemies under his feet; last enemy to be [defeated] is death. And that’s when Jesus returns - not to bring the kingdom. 1 Co 15 says, not to bring the kingdom but to deliver the kingdom over to the Father, after all things have been put into subjection to Jesus. Brothers and sisters, our future is glorious, and I want to say this: we have the great hope of Christ coming and resurrection, but when that comes, guess what? Guess what, y’all? It’s going to be in victory! In TOTAL victory! With the world, nations, tribes, tongues, languages, EVERYBODY converted to Jesus, through His glorious gospel. It’s my belief, as a Calvinist, in the absolute sovereignty of God, that God has the POWER to save the world and I believe that he’s given us, too, the PROMISE that he’s gonna to do it.“ That really blew my mind!! In a GOOD way! :) When I got home I tried to the find the video for the above on TH-cam, but was unable to locate it. I found this one, instead, in which you say: "“I actually, personally, believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God’s grace at the end of time. That’s my personal position on that. That’s not universalism. I’m saying, in terms of the future, I believe the kingdom of God will have victory over the world and I think, personally, that the largest mass of humanity will be actually given grace….” To which I say AMEN! [Though I wish you would go further.... all the way, if you will. :) ] While you step away from "universalism" in this quote (and I had not seen it in any of the other messages I heard, prior to last night), I, too, am wondering if you will elaborate and why you would acknowledge that scripture does declare Jesus the Savior of "the world," but believe that such is only a "possibility," (though it seems you are saying it is more than that in the second quote above). Have your views changed? Will you elaborate? If it is, indeed, "a matter of mercy," did not Paul say: "God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL." (Rom 11:32)? As to the subject of Esau and Jacob, have you considered the possibility that Esau and Jacob, like so many other figures in scripture, serve as "types" and that is the reason why "It is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated"? Is it possible that "the vessel of wrath, fitted to destruction" is the first/natural/carnal man and "the vessel of mercy" is the second/spiritual man; that these things (wheat/tares, sheep/goats) are meant to show a division between the old/outward man and the new/inward man and not a division between one man and the next (though we may certainly manifest as either depending on whether we walk in the flesh or in the spirit)? Throughout the OT we see the same pattern repeated over and over in various ways, going all the way back to Adam (the first/natural man), who was 'a figure of him who was to come" (the Second/Spiritual/Last man, the Son of God). it is always the older who serves the young or the second/later born who gets the the blessing of the first born. Why? I believe in the sovereignty of God, as well; and I believe Jesus is who the scriptures declare him to be, the Saviour of the world. Even if you only see the possibility, I am really enjoying all of the podcasts I have listened to so far and am thinking about becoming a financial supporter, despite our differences, due to your outreach to Mormons. (I am ex-Mormon.)
universalism is absolutely unbiblical, I can see how people end up there (as I did for a while) but the fact is that many places talk about a place of punishment for unrepentant people. There is a reason the historical church, even back to the earliest times didn't believe it. Why even spread the gospel at all if there is universalism? jesus and the early church had an urgency about spreading their message.
@@Xenotypic Christian Universalism doesn't deny punishment. It only denies eternal conscious torment which serves no redemptive purpose at all, but is only retributive in the worst possible way. As to spreading the gospel, are you suggesting that their urgency to spread the gospel (do you have an example of that?) is to make sure that as many as possible get saved before they die and go to hell? I don't think "salvation" is the goal, for that was taken care of at the cross. It is "the gospel of [our] salvation that we being asked to "believe." Because the result of "believing" it is what?
@@Chrissiela I know it doesn't deny punishment entirely, just to put that out there. long story short, the evidence appears to be for annihilationism. after going through all the verses about hell, seeing how they were said and in what context, the evidence seemed to me to be in the annihilationism camp. you get your just deserts of punishment and then are destroyed at the second death. the verses which say Christ came to save "all" i interpret to mean that his blood is sufficient for all, but not all will come, as much as God may want that. Every knee bowing and tongue confessing could easily be people who have to admit to something when considering it's right in front of their face/is already too late for them. it all works out, you can be in hell for an "aeon", get rightly punished, then after your perfect judgement your existence will be over at the second death. to me, it was a pretty satisfying conclusion since it appears to fit so nicely. tellling the gospel is at the very least *less urgent* under universalism. most of the historical church, even in the 1st couple centuries didn't have this understanding (Origen being a poooossible exception)
@@Xenotypic I don’t think the gospel is about people getting “their just deserts.” Just the opposite, in fact. It’s all about grace, about how where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. The “justice” of God is all about making things right. It’s about righteousness, particularly the righteousness of Jesus Christ, whose body we are. And while most believe that only believers are a part of the body of Christ, I believe the Bible says otherwise. I believe it says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. He did that by “gathering together in one all things in Christ.” That includes all men, both good and bad, just as we see in the parable of the wedding feist. Jesus said he came to not to judge the world but to save the world. And he did. All of it. Some (not all), especially those in the Universalist camp, believe that means that there is no judgment. Jesus came only to save. Period. But that is not what he was saying. He talks about judgment, too. And judgement comes AFTER salvation. This is put into our remembrance in Jude 1:5. “I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.” Now, one could certainly argue that this is one way to recognize that Jesus actually IS “the Saviour of ALL MEN,” and he actually ACCOMPLISHED that, even if NOT “all men” survive judgment. But I do not think that is the case either. I think what is getting “separated” (or divided) in “the judgment” (the sheep from the goats, the tares from the wheat) is not one person from another the old man and the new man, that which is born of the flesh from that which is born of the spirit. Now, we can certainly be recognized, individually, as a tare or a goat, etc, as it relates to our “walk” (whether we are walking in the spirit, as sons of God, or walking the flesh, having the devil as our father), but it is “the spirit” that is “saved in the day of the Lord,” for “God is the father of spirts.” God is not trying to save the old man. That man is to be reckoned dead already. So while annihilation does sound much more humane than eternal conscious torment, it’s not what I believe the scriptures teach. I believe that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father, because they mean it. For no man can even make such a confession except “by the Holy Spirit.” Scripture even tells us that “if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, for he cannot deny himself.” (2Ti 2:23) He cannot (and will not) deny his own body, his own flesh and blood, so to speak… which is “the church,” even His “Bride.” The difference between those who believe and those who do not is "salvation" but “eternal life.” We treat “eternal life” as if it is a synonym for “immortality,” and has nothing to do with those is this world, only the world to come, as it relates to those who have been saved. But that is not how the scriptures define “eternal life,” which is that life that is “in the Son.” And who are “the sons of God”? Jesus said: “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” Eternal life is “to know God and Jesus Christ” now, to be “as He is in this world.” That is the benefit of believing the gospel. It might be easy to question or downplay the significance of that, thinking “is that all?” But I think that can only be said by someone who hasn’t really yet met “the Son of God” or really yet understood who THEY ARE “in Christ.” (Origen is far from being the only early church father who believe in the apokatastases. You might want to do a little bit more research on that, if that is what you think. I can offer some resources, if you like.)
How can you be sure God predetermined you for heaven on your deathbed? This does not seem like something worth believing if one's salvation or damnation is already written out for them and they have no way of knowing what was chosen for them rather than teaching that salvation is a gift to all who believe and follow Christ? Why would we even need Jesus if we are already predetermined to our eternal destination after death?
8:30 I think the mistake people make is thinking this is being as Job puts it "a respecter of God's person" acting as though God could be unrighteous and still be entitled to be called rightous. That instead of being good, all good and nothing other than good that God is "beyond good and evil" under no standards of rightousness imposed on him by himself. Such as would reply to Abraham when he said "shall not the judge of all the Earth do right?" With "he has every right to be as unrighteous as he pleases, who are you to hold him to obligation?"
Our free will is limited in many ways. None of us chose our our parents, their religion or lack thereof, our nationality, our physical and mental health, M or F, etc. etc. etc., all of which affect our decisions including the most important one. Joseph didn't choose the events that led to his becoming second in command in Egypt. Jonah's travel plans were altered. And so on. With God's it's different: "My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish _all_ my purpose" (Isaiah 46:10). God wants everyone to be saved and go to heaven, BTW (Luke 19:10, John 17:2, 1 Timothy 2:3-6). God is all-wise. Like a chess master who plays against a novice, He doesn’t force any of the novice's moves, but He always wins. It will usually take longer than a lifetime, but God will search for the hundredth (lost) sheep UNTIL he finds it. Here's who God chooses: " *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. … From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a). "For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, *but because of him who subjected it,* in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:20-21). --------------- Also see John 12:32, Rom. 5:18-19, 8:19-21, 11:32,36, 14:11, 1 Cor. 15:22,28, Eph. 1:10, Phil. 2:10-11, 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 5:13, 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14-15,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, 65:2-3, 145:10a, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, 57:16, Lam. 3:22,31, Ezek. 16:53,55, Mal. 3:2-3, The Total Victory of Christ videos.
“Before they did good or evil, God predestined them” and “they are condemned for their own evil. God is just.” In other words, God created no man with the possibility to be saved by his own goodness (because we are born into sin), and then ‘justly’ condemns some of them for that which they can’t help but do by nature, without any possibility of redemption, and that before they even do one evil deed. This is what I heard you all say. Am I wrong?
@@reformedchristian7751 I don't agree to your statement that says "Romans 9 is about individual election". Please read Romans 9 in its context before you jump to your illogical conclusion.
@@reformedchristian7751 I would encourage to see what Frank Turek advises on romans 9. Follows the view that it’s about the nation of Israel. Not individuals
No. God DID create a man with the possibility to be righteous on his own. The first was Adam... he failed... the second was Christ and he succeeded. The rest of us are in the middle faced with the brutal reality of having fallen by predestiantion under the heritage of one of the two. And that is just.
BLATANT contradiction between 0:58 and 1:11. If God predestined every event in history, which you affirm Jeff, then peoples choices are included in that, as they are also events. You can’t have one without the other.
God uses people who reject Him to carry out acts of evil that He works for good. If Joseph's brothers chose not to sell him, God would have worked it out by the hand of someone who wants to be evil. We do indeed have free will yet God has predestined all events and will find a willful sinner such as pharaoh through whom he can bring about ultimate good. Edit: just the same, for example, if God has planned for the gospel to be shared with... "Ted" He wont force anyone to do it, but will find a willing servant.
I think if Jeff is gonna say that the majority will receive God's grace he ought to back it up with scripture. The Bible says many are called, few are chosen. It also says that few find life, many find destruction. So I am not sure where Jeff gets this belief from. Would love to hear him expand upon this belief of his.
@Damien Tahbaz He gets it from his (wrong) postmil postition where they believe that all will be getting better (wasn't since the apostles) and eventually there will be overwhelming Christian majority ruling over the world and Christ will come then... It amazes me, how many greatly educated amazing brothers in Christ believe this eschatology. Maybe that education and tradition is the problem. Anyway, that's where he is getting it from. They make very complicated connections in the Scriptures to get to that idea.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
13:40 Anyone who argues reformed theology has to misrepresent it. I've never heard an argument that accurately represents it. Dr. Michael brown probably is the closest to wanting to accurately represent it.
Moreover dr brown and dr white are great friends and alot of the comments are vicious in this comment section. No wonder so many unbelievers pount at christians and say if you act like that i don't want your God. Its a shame really. Not you ofcourse. I just wanted to point out the viciousness in the comment section
So much for John 3:16 .... & what about those who simply don't know any better when they reject God? No purpose in addressing Universal salvation?? 🕊🏝☀🌱
I have believed in God my entire life! I remember being 3 yo old, and not allowing anyone to sit next to me, bc Jesus was beside me. Back in the late 70’s early 80’s, my sister’s friends had to sit on each other’s lap bc Jesus had to have a seat first. I chuckle at that quite often, bc it truly is child-like. Since I was so young, and for 47 years (44 that I can remember,) I’ve always known God being my creator. So, is it possible to be that young, and already believe wholeheartedly, that God is my creator? There’s no way, unless God had revealed Himself to me, that I wasn’t specifically chosen. I was chosen to be a Believer, from day one? I’m probably not explaining it correctly, but are ppl chosen, before even grasping who God is? He had to have revealed Himself to me, but yet I still had a choice? It’s so hard to wrap my head around, bc God knew what I’d choose millennia’s ago. But I still had a choice. 🤷🏻♀️
Think about it like this: There’s a piece of paper with a boy inside of a building, and then there’s a car going 100 mph heading straight toward the wall the boy is sitting closest to… You as a “Being” outside of this paper realm can see both the boy and the car driver without either of their knowledge, and you can see what’s about to occur before the boy can… in fact, you’re outside of their time, space, and matter completely- you’re of a higher dimension entirely… this is how God is to us. Thus, while God is all knowing and can see all things it’s less about predestination and more about leaving the page to “write” itself in a way. Hopefully this helps.
@@Ej2SavageNot exactly… Scripture says that God is active in authoring history; He even wields Assyria like an axe against Judah in Isaiah 10. He is not a passive, looking-down-the-corridors-of-time God… He is the author and sustainer of all things.
@@CameronSzwed I agree, he definitely isn’t just a spectator, but he’s also not always preforming “an act of God” either… somewhere in the middle more than likely
“not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” - 2 Peter 3:9b. we have free will. God doesn’t want us to go to hell, he doesn’t create some people for hell, people who go to hell choose it. That’s why it says “come” to repentance. It’s a choice.
If God is not willing that any should perish, how come most persons of the world are doing just that? Peter here is speaking to believers! That's the context, that God is not willing that a Christian should go to hell. Fairly consistent, don't you think?
The doctrine of eleccion makes us humble , understanding that we're not elected by anything we can do, just because God wants, and that doesn't make us better, thank you Lord.
It doesn't. They say it matter afactly so that you don't ask questions. If you do, they get defensive, which is the first clue they know it's not accurate.
Many people hear the call of God which comes through His revelation of Himself through two things the creation and the conscience within us. But only the "few" will respond because they are the ones who are truly hearing.
Really like Pastor Jeff’s teaching, seems biblical, but Rev. 20 “Satan’s army as the sands of they sea”, speaks to the greater number going into death. There being vastly more headed for destruction than there are saints entering the kingdom during Christ’s reign is completely biblical.
6:05 how does this relate to Jesus saying in Matt. 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Even worse, worse in the sense of amazing is lately I came across some comments which mentioned a certain 'christian denomination' called something like tentmakers. They believe that all humanity will be saved. They sound like ' good kind hearted christian in action people' but their doctrine is anything but Christian because essentially it negates the atonement of Jesus Christ. I was amazed , I mean yes so many denominations and religions but it was the first time I had heard of such a ludicrous belief. It makes me more convinced that denominations are not Christ appointed because they only bring division. The Apostle Paul made it very clear in Corinthians that we must belong to Jesus Christ and no other 1 Cor 1 : 9-13
woah... easy my friend, just because his Theology is a bit off here, doesnt mean he turned from God... its such a secondary (prolly further out) issue from the Salvation conversation
Narrow is the gate is a statement as to how one is saved, not how many. Salvation is by Christ alone ! One can have a large flock of sheep yet have a single gate that they pass through.
So when the Mormon says that God is wrong for sending certain people to hell then is it possible for that Mormon when he gets to be a god himself one day will create a world to his own liking? Especially is the God of the bible was once a man and he was able to get to exalted status like the god before him. Why do Mormons care what this certain god does with his creation when they can just come up with their own. I hope that made sense because even typing it I was confusing myself.
The line about giving most people grace is why I leaned SDA partially a bit. I'm moving Reformed swiftly. I had already listened to Apologia and Voddie before. Listening to a lot of Voddie started moving me back.
Consider the following from the Christian EAST! The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love! Philippians 2:12-13; Titus 2:11; 1 Timothy 2:3-6 The order is, Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration) Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all! John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8 It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen! Luke 9:35; Ephesians 4, 13; Romans 8:29 These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!" 1 Corinthians 15:10 Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5 But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved! 1 Timothy 2:3-6 In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all! This is Christus Victor! Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Colossians 1:20 God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 But the choice to love God remains in all people! John 7:17; 11:35 The divine order is: 1) Enabling Grace for all! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31 3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)! John 20:31 What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ! Philippians 2:12-13; John 6:65, 12:33-33; Titus 2:11 The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace! Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4 The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love! 1 John 4:8 God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace! God predestined them to be like Christ! Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:4-5 God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices! To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven. To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell! The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice! John 3:16 Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity! Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all! And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent! Acts 17:30-31; Romans 1:20
Thank you guys for this vid, needs to be much longer! Pastor John Macarthur, Steve Lawson have very good sermons teaching on predestination, too. Also, Willmington's Guide to the Bible has an entire study guide that is full of sound scripture teaching.
Hey guys, just letting you know, Kwaku suffers from the affliction of emasculation and therefore is unable to think critically. He rather, is only able to emote. I am a pastor here in Provo and have had Kwaku attend a couple of our bible studies, 2 Thess. I believe, and could have told you before the conversation you had with him, that he is not interested in or capable of truth as he does not have a love for the truth. We do pray for him and others like him continuously!
@Rudy Rodriguez I will pray for Kwaku as well. It grieves my heart to see a young lad at only 22 years of age to believe such lies and trying to spread it as if it's true- is such a scary stumbling block for others who really want to seek God. One must fear while seeking and love correction for obtaining the truth of our one true Lord.
Woah! Like literal emasculation or figurative? Kwaku certainly is a character of one who purposely misrepresents truth because he's of the world. Also, I have a Mormon cousin who lives in Provo. I doubt you know him.
As a Calvinist, I fully agree. Double predestination is nonsense. Fortunately, Calvinism doesn't entail it, and only a small minority actually believe it.
@@oracleoftroy From the Institute's "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death". That's double predestination, Calvin himself was at least being consistent. If God chooses some for eternal life and just leaves everyone else alone (which is what modern-day Calvinists say to avoid double predestination) that still implies double predestination. You can't be a 5 point Calvinist and not, at least implicitly, believe in double predestination.
@@user-yd3uh4pz5e Well, there are two versions, the version the reformed confessions teach and the version anti-calvinists push. In Reformed theology, predestination has to do with those God saves. Mankind has fallen and is condemned for their sin. Out of these, God predestines some to eternal life. That's it. Note that this isn't dealing with innocent or morally neutral people, but sinners who fully deserve condemnation for their willful sin. Now, people talk about "single" and "double" predestination. Single leaves open the question of whether God will come around to those he passed over at some other time and bring salvation to them, whereas double predestination says that in passing over them and leaving them in their sin, their final destination is assured. The other view is more properly called "equal ultimacy". It holds that man isn't a sinner, but is morally innocent. Then mean ol' God comes down and arbitrarily declares that one person will be a sinner and condemned and another person will be saved. It is a strawman of the Reformed position that disregards the agency of man in their sinfulness and tries to shift the blame onto God.
@@user-yd3uh4pz5e Well, there are two versions of double predestination, the version most anti-Calvinists are against, and the version Reformed Christians actually hold to. First we should answer: what is predestination? In Reformed theology, predestination is God looking at fallen sinful man and choosing to bring eternal life to some and passes over the rest, leaving them in their sin. That's it. Note that man is already sinful and condemned, so it is purely about an act of mercy on God's part. Within this, there are two versions worth mentioning, "single" and "double" predestination. The question is about what happens to those God passes over. In single predestination, it is left open whether God may come back to some of them and bring them to salvation at some other time. In double predestination, in passing over those people, they will heap more condemnation on themselves through their sin and their judgement is certain. In both, condemnation is because of their own willful sin against God and not anything God makes them do. The other view is properly called "equal ultimacy", and it is the view most anti-Calvinists incorrectly call "double predestination". In this view, man is morally neutral or innocent until God comes around and starts making people into sinners, predestining them to hell in the same way he predestines others to life. It tries to minimize the individual agency, and thus blame, for sin on the part of the condemned and paint man as the victim of God's whims. The problem is you won't find this view in any of the historic Reformed confessions or taught by any respected Reformed theologian. I hold to double predestination as taught in the Reformed Confessions and I reject "double predestination" as most anti-Calvinists define it. I replied earlier, but I don't see my post now... Sorry if there ends up being a double post.
Does anyone know where to go to hear Jeff talk more about his belief he mentioned at 6:00 ? "...and I actually personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God's grace at the end of time. That's my personal position on that. That's not universalism..."
I was bothered by Jeff's personal belief and position that the vast majority of humanity will receive Grace, because my King and savior says the gate is narrow, few will enter the kingdom of heaven. As always, I will stick with the teachings of Jesus
Y do anything to be saved if it’s all God’s doing in terms of he is the one who decides if u have salvation or not? Then people can say I’m saved and always saved randomly vs I never will be saved even if I want to be. It’s an unbiblical doctrine
Killing it you guys. Please keep up the good work. We need more solid teaching out there that has a modern feel like this. I'll sit and listen to Dr. White all day every day but I know as soon as I share his video people will tune out bc of the vibe. (No hate dr. White. You have been a huge teacher to me) You guys are young and have a dope looking studio. And have killer exegesis!
Did you hear Flame (Christian rapper) has shifted from a reformed calvinist to Lutheran? He has a video of him discussing bible verses from the Lutheran perspective and the shift from Calvinism with Jordan B Cooper. Honestly, they make reasonable assertions and I think a dialogue between y’all would be fantastic and super helpful!
PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰 God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎 THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE. In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed) Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23 Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience) v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8 v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU. I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE. Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin. Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the W🌎RLD. (Goats are on the left) John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS. 6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus. John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD. Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. What does PRE-DESTINATED mean? Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began, Destination means where you end up after time is over. Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD: 5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL. Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh) BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. 1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU. The Cross, Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD. The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,, Who will never chosen to be saved. God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH. John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name: 13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL. John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD. John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD. John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT. 4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE. John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you. 27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME: John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. Speaking of Judas Iscariot. John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,, 15:19 19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you. John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM. JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD. John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me, John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are. John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE. Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC Must I go on.
God knows the future (Foreknowledge), *and who's gonna "surrender" to His Will* (Predestined them BASED ON His Foreknowledge), and Chooses them (the Elect) to Accomplish HIS PURPOSES... {which most believers don't know what that is or ignore it}
2 questions: 1. Did God create, then “look through the corridors of time” (to borrow a popular phrase) to gain His foreknowledge? 2. If God knows what I will do tomorrow, can I do anything other than what He already knows? (I’m assuming you believe he has perfect foreknowledge)
@@anomilumiimulimona2924 that was dumb. He knows what your "Free Will" choices will be before you're created.. (he still LET'S you carry them out) so HE bases His Giftings & Purposes off That. (Foreknowledge)
@@douglasmcnay644 You have to understand the Bible first before you misquote it..! Paul's simply using those quotes from Eccl&Psalms to prove to the Jews That NO ONE is Righteous under the Law, and cannot be JUSTIFIED by it.
I love Jeff Durbin and his ministry. I have a lot of time for you folks. Not a Calvinist though! I guess we'll meet in the next life and laugh about this!
Jeff, you really confused me with this video... I sought out how my Church understands this subject though, and found that you do not have the whole picture. Please check out "Lawrence Feingold on Freedom of the Will called to communion." Search it on google and click the first link. It's about an hour and a half including the lecture and Q/A, but it perfectly summarizes the Catholic Church's teachings on this matter of free will and foreknowledge.
Is it incorrect to say that _knowing_ the end from the beginning is different than _dictating_ the beginning, the end, and every little thing that happens in between? How is it possible to have free-will if God _determines_ everything? (Am I using the words wrong?) Does God give this mercy and grace arbitrarily? _Ugh! Such a difficult and confusing topic!_
God revealed to me that "All Knowing" means that he knows the beginning and end of every possible outcome of your life and all of existence He is eternal and outside of time we are inside therefore linear so it's impossible to grasp God's perspective from eternity but we can understand it using his wisdom
We do have free will, but our will is in bondage to our nature. A lion has free will. I can offer him a salad; he is free to choose to eat the salad, but a lion will never choose to eat a salad because it goes against his nature. A lion's nature di tates him to eat meat.
@@johannastromberg514 Exactly... You are not a slave to your nature unless you choose to be. God can free you from the bondage of your nature if you freely chose him. A Lion can never deny it's nature because it has no free will and doesn't posses the knowledge of good and evil.
@@johannastromberg514 I don't agree to your notion that our will is in bondage to our nature. You gave a poor example by comparing animal's instinct with that of man's freewill. Does the lion has free will as suggested by you? certainly not,, as all animals are driven by their own instinct and that is why the lion won't be held culpable in whatever it does. Whereas man has a freewill and thus are held culpable by their actions. Please explain to me how adam/eve with their sinless nature and yet choose to do evil. Thus as you claimed man acted according to their nature is evidently flawed as adam/eve didn't act according to their nature but they choose freely to sin out of their human pride.
Only God has a free will, He alone is perfect. No sinner has ever head a free will. You don't believe me, then why don't you use your free will and sin no more sense you claim you have a free will.
Keep it up, Apologia. I had an exchange with Kwaku over the issue of predestination; he eventually just seemed to admit that he didn’t like it and didn’t know what else to tell me. He couldn’t refute me over the predestination of all things but resorted to the basic misrepresentations he constantly portrays. His arrogance is saddening as is his smarminess. I wish he were honest but anyone who rejects the true God for a false religion when shown the truth must either ignore it or distort the argument because he doesn’t and can’t deal with what the Bible says and only the unregenerate would continue in such lies as he does about the doctrines of grace. God bless you guys and your ministry. Will be praying for you and for Kwaku as well.
Coinkydink Kid Ps 81: 11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. 12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. What do you make of this?
Evan U God has a revealed will for Israel but He has His decree and He will work His decree together for good and to glorify Himself. Unless you want to argue that He can fail and be frustrated
Coinkydink Kid I would argue for the bible being true and God being sincere..... Deu 5: 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Jer 2: 9 Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead. Jer 26: 3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings Eze 18: 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Mat 23: 37 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Luk 19: 41 ¶ And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. Is Jesus weeping for the glory He didn’t receive from them??? No, He has a heart for all people. Rom 11: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 1Tim 2: 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. God does show frustration and empathy. He desires all to be saved and weeps when they turn from Him. This doesn’t mean He failed. Whosoever will come will receive His pardon. That’s how He designed it. His plan will not fail. God bless
Hey Apologia Studios! I’ve never disagreed on any teachings that Jeff or any of the other pastors teach on, however, when Pastor Jeff says “I personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive Gods grace” I can’t help but to comment out of love and maybe I’m wrong and I have misunderstood something but the verse that comes to my mind in response to Pastor Jeffs comment is Mathew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” I pray that I didn’t misunderstand what Jeff was saying or misinterpret anything. #apologiastudios
I see what you mean but Jeff also specifically said at the end of times he thinks the majority of earth will know god. Matthew 7 is referring to the entirety of human history, in which case the many will indeed take the wide and easy path. Even if the entire world comes to Jesus on the last day, percentage wises all of the people that came before us will still overwhelmingly not be saved sadly. I think Jeff takes the stance that he does from the verse that says all of Christ's enemies here on earth must be placed under his feet before his return.
As much as we try, we cannot divorce predestination from scripture. It's there. It can't be ignored. I never heard about such things until I read it for myself and the question kept coming up: "Does it really mean what it (the scripture) implies?" Yes it does. I think where people stumble and refuse to believe is because anything that is hard to understand or seemingly unfair, we throw it out or we dismiss it. We are fallible humans created by an infallible God. We don't know everything. If we did, we would be God and we're not. This is where faith comes into play. You read the Word and believe it 100% even if you don't understand why or how. It's also about being comfortable being a humble human being knowing that we don't know everything and that's ok. Our minds cannot comprehend all of God's way. Only a tiny sliver and only a tiny sliver when God presents it to us in HIS timing. I'm perfectly fine with God choosing me. It's humbling. And by no means do I feel that I no longer have a responsibility to go out and preach the gospel. On the contrary, I feel MORE responsible because in my human thinking, if an all powerful awesome God called me, I better do the best I can with my time and gift He's given me.
How can love but force people to believe and others not to believe? That is a false view of God. God did not predestine certain to be saved but he predestined those who will be saved will be blessed and have salvation. Big difference. One is force the other is reward because of faith. All Glory to God. God bless. Repent and trust in Jesus
Hello fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. As much as I find most of the content on Apologia Studios to be Biblically sound, the teachings on Calvinism is where I break away and STRONGLY disagree on. I grew up under Calvinism--steeped in it up to my eyeballs. I am of the strongest conviction that it is a false teaching, and is even heretical. Apologia Studios, in this video, you reference Romans 9: 10-13 ("Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated): this is a common reference that I have heard out of many a Calvinist. My counter argument to that is the that the word for "hated" in this passage of Scripture is one of "preference"--meaning that God preferred and Sovereignly chose Jacob and not Esau, as the continuing successor of the promises He made to Abraham and Isaac. It does not actually mean that God hates Esau in the sense of a despising type of hatred. The same (idiomatic) form of “hate” is found in another passage of Scripture: in Luke 14:26 when Jesus says: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.” The idea of “hate” in this passage is one of preference, or loyalty. Jesus is not actually saying to hate your family members as we might think. Rather, He is saying that when a disciple of His has a choice to make in following Jesus and His teachings, (at the risk of being rejected by a family member), then a true disciple of His would be loyal to Him [Jesus] vs. their family member. Next, the over-arching theme of the entire book of Romans is that of FAITH. Paul many times is addressing unbelieving Israelites, who think that by virtue of them being physical descendants of Abraham, that somehow they are automatically saved...as if they are somehow inherently “better” than other people groups and that they automatically and exclusively get God’s Grace and Favor no matter what. Paul’s point is to address and correct this wrong way of thinking by the unbelieving Jews. His point is that it does not matter if one is a Jew or Greek or Gentile, Salvation is by Faith, and not works of the law. In essence, Paul says that these unbelieving Jews do not have the right to question whom God chooses to save outside of the nation of Israel (As in Romans 9:30-33: “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”). The example of Pharaoh in Romans 9:17 deserves to be cross referenced with the account given in Exodus: and in a nutshell, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart is a judicial hardening, not an arbitrary one...since Pharaoh himself hardened his heart towards God Almighty, God in turn completes the hardening in order to deliver Pharaoh over to destruction, so that God’s Power and Sovereignty would be on display. Hence, the idea of “vessels of wrath”, which follows in Romans 9: 22-24: Paul’s example here has to do with God’s PATIENCE towards the rebellious...or his longsuffering (as in verse 22) instead of immediate destruction. Those that make a final, deliberate decision to rail against God have sealed their judgment. And on the other hand, those who seek after God with humility and Faith, God uses as “vessels of Mercy” (verse 23), to demonstrate His Sovereign Glory and Goodness and Redemptive works in their lives. Paul reminds his audience that God says “I will have Mercy on whomever I will have mercy”...this reminder is to say to the Jew: it is up to God to grant His mercy/compassion on people who are not Israelites. I think Calvinistic theology just plain misses the mark on all the above points, and miss-appropriates Romans 9 as a whole. Another argument that I make against Calvinism is that of Romans 8: 29-30: “For whom He FOREKNEW, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” The Greek word “foreknew” means just that-to know something ahead of time, before it even happens. God knows there will be many that reject Him. So, the ones that do make the choice to accept Him, those are the ones that He predestines to bring them to the point of Salvation. From my understanding, Calvinism takes this passage and says that it means God only predestines those whom He chooses to predestine, but that is not what the verse says at all. It clearly says that God FOREKNEW the ones that would choose Saving Faith. And in His foreknowledge, He continues the work of predestination to bring them to Salvation. The passage says NOTHING about God choosing some for Salvation, and then intentionally choosing others for damnation (destruction)...as is taught by John Calvin. Furthermore, when John 3:16 says: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life”, the “whosoever” means whosoever, not just a select few. I take that verse at face value: God made it possible for everyone to come to Saving Faith, but He gives people the free will to accept or reject Him. Also, 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” So if God does not have the desire that any should perish, why would He then intentionally save some, but not others? Just doesn’t add up. Much of Calvinism just does not comport with Scripture, or the Character of God. And lastly, when it comes to Church history, I have always wondered why most Calvinists seem to focus exclusively on the Reformation period (out of which John Calvin came out of)??? I bring this up because if one were to study Church history in the 1st/2nd/3rd Centuries, one would see that the ideas John Calvin propagated in his lifetime were nothing new. For example, the early Church fathers record that there was a Gnostic school called the Valentinians, who taught (among many other heretical ideas) that some men were predestined to go to hell, had no free will, and had no chance of being saved. The early Church fathers countered that Gnostic teaching-- and taught instead that man had free will, no one is compelled to accept Salvation; but that Salvation is presented as a free gift to all men. They taught that NO ONE is PREDESTINED to go to hell. We have records of what the early Church fathers wrote and what they taught. Many of those records that we have came from Church fathers who were either direct disciples of the Apostles or were their successive disciples. I would challenge any self-proclaiming Calvinist to research Church doctrine of the early 1st-3rd centuries. Why stop at the Reformation? I understand that a lot of Church doctrine got corrupted by Roman Catholicism, but the doctrine of the 1st-3rd centuries is pretty rock solid. Bottom line: early Church doctrine taught AGAINST what the Valentinians taught, and later what John Calvin would re-teach during the Reformation era. Again, what Calvin taught wasn’t anything new, he just added a few extra ideas/concepts of his own to it. Based on Church history and based on what I read in my Bible, Calvinisim is a false doctrine. That is my strong conviction.
My humble understanding, and I admit I could be wrong, is that because God is omniscient, all powerful and works outside of time the issue of predestination is probably one that we can't grasp. I do, however, think the lines between predestined and foreknew can be blurry. Romans 8:29-30 says, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters". My interpretation of this is that because God works outside of time, he already knew who will accept him and they were predestinated to be conformed to the image of God. The verses of elect and potter/clay are similar, basically saying that time is not a thing to God and that he already knows everything, such as who will be saved and not saved. Again, could be wrong, but I just think our minds are so limited that these issues are not something we can fully comprehend.
@@ebbb365 In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said don't eat of it. These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp You misunderstand Calvinism on a fundamental level. God either makes you do good. Or leaves you to the lusts of the flesh. Or for a believers case. Sin actually does the sinning if God does not always keep you. You still have two options, otherwise known as a choice. But God will either make you make the right one, or leave you to your flesh. Which will always make the wrong one.
@@Mike-qt7jphere we see God controling all the people he didn't want to believe, John 12:39-40 (KJV) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
@@Mike-qt7jphere we find the elect is all ordained to eternal life, Acts 13:48 (KJV) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
I have a question. I have been in Reformed or Presbyterian churches for over 20 years, the last 8 in a very Reformed Presbyterian church. I’m no stranger to the concept of God’s sovereignty in election. But I’ve never heard a minister say he believes the majority of humanity will find grace at the final judgement. This is news to me. I’m not sure that I’ve heard a minister clearly state a strong opinion about it one way or another until now. But the first thought that came to my mind when I heard Pastor Durban say that, was “What about the wide and the narrow path?”. Please be gracious if my confusion seems like a product of lazy Bible reading.
Consider the following from the Christian EAST! The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love! Philippians 2:12-13; Titus 2:11; 1 Timothy 2:3-6 The order is, Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration) Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all! John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8 It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen! Luke 9:35; Ephesians 4, 13; Romans 8:29 These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!" 1 Corinthians 15:10 Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5 But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved! 1 Timothy 2:3-6 In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all! This is Christus Victor! Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Colossians 1:20 God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 But the choice to love God remains in all people! John 7:17; 11:35 The divine order is: 1) Enabling Grace for all! John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11 2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31 3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)! John 20:31 What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ! Philippians 2:12-13; John 6:65, 12:33-33; Titus 2:11 The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace! Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4 The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love! 1 John 4:8 God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace! God predestined them to be like Christ! Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:4-5 God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices! To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven. To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell! The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice! John 3:16 Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity! Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all! And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent! Acts 17:30-31; Romans 1:20
I can't help but think you were getting somewhere there in the middle at about 6:00 - 8:00. The potter chooses the clay for His own use. Okay great. Then, sticking with the analogy, what does the clay have to do to be a recipient of such divine selection? Does the clay have to repent, have faith, possibly be baptized? Or, is it all just chance that some of the clay becomes vessels unto honor and the rest unto dishonor? Maybe He just selects the best clay, not the yucky stuff that dried on the outside of the lump?
The elect do nothing to be elected. God, out of His grace and mercy, chooses to save those whom He has elected. The ability to believe (faith) is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9), and even repentance is a gift from God (2 Timothy 2:24-26). We can do none of those things apart from God's work in us. God does not make people saveable as some believe or imply. God actually accomplishes redemption for His elect. When He's determined to save someone, nothing and no one can stop Him, for no purpose of God's can be thwarted.
@@jacobgarcia4826 Thanks for the free pass! Next time Jeff Durbin tries to convert, or tell someone they're doing it wrong, believing wrong, etc... We just say it's not my doing, take it up with God.
@@jacobgarcia4826 If its out of grace and mercy to choose to elect someone, than what is God using when he chooses not to elect someone? If a potter creates an idol its a sin, what is it when God intentionally makes a sinner?
@@jacobgarcia4826 That's not a straw man argument at all. It's a vital question, one that addresses the nature of God Himself. If Calvinism is true, then the god of Calvinism creates billions of people with zero chance of ever changing their destiny from an eternity in the lake of fire. The false god of Calvinism is a monster, a hideous, bloodthirsty, demonic goblin who creates beings with no free will, falsely charges them with sin that he himself committed vicariously through them, and tortures them eternally for it.
I think the biggest thing between predestination and full freewill is that Christ is the same no matter what one believes. Why argue the small things when neither of them truly matters? Neither of them sends one to hell or heaven even more if we truly believe we go to heaven. We should stop arguing who is wrong and who is right and start loving one another as Christ loved us. We are the church and we should embrace each other as such.
Probably the best theologian of the past 100 years Reginald Garrigou Lagrange said he had to write a book on predestination because the topic was so difficult. Glad you guys have figured it all out in 10 minutes
In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said don't eat of it. These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
"Know therefore that God exacts from you less than your iniquity deserves" Job 11:6 THAT is mercy! And my favourite for God's sovereignty: "For His dominion is an everlasting dominion. ALL the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven AND among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand or say to Him 'what have You done'?...now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, ALL of whose works are truth AND His ways justice. And those who walk in pride He is able to put down" Dan 4:34-37. Selah
10:40 as a Christian brother, Calvinist, please stop using this horrible argument. Man does not get glory or steal God's glory by simply repenting and believing. It makes Calvinists look foolish and blind when they make this argument
If everything happens according to God's will as per Calvinism, then a lot of really evil things happen, that God has called sin. This is ridiculous. God tells Adam and Eve, don't eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He has ordained that they will. Calvinism seems to be making God a liar, because He is telling them to not do something that He knows full well (according to Calvinism) that they have no choice but to do. We can go on and on; if God causes everything that happens, He is causing murder, rape, incest, drug use, drunkenness, lying stealing, sexual immorality, false religions, Satan worship, pedophilia, etc. The God of the Bible is love and calls us NOT to do all these things. Why would He turn around and make us do the very same things He tells us not to do? The Calvinist seems to sink on their own idea of the sovereignty of God. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY can choose to give us some degree of free will. That's why there are so many scriptures saying "Whosoever will, may..." Scripture clearly gives us a choice. Follow Christ or not. Repent or not. Obey scripture or not. I believe, based on scripture, that God has given us choices with eternal repercussions, Heaven or Hell. That's why Joshua said choose you this day whom you will serve. I can by God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit say, "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." By the way, yes, it is true; we can't come to Christ unless the Father draws us, but that says "draws us" not makes us a believer. God opens us up to the Good news and then we either say yes or no.
@@jeffcooper9363 The issue is a Calvinists undermining of God's sovereignty, thinking God must meticulously predetermine everything in order for His will to be done (as if man's will can trump God's will), whereas the God of the Bible is so much greater than that....He has created man with free will yet despite men making free choices (all terrible btw except the choice to receive Christ and have faith in God) His will is being done....that is a much more powerful and sovereign God.
Jeff is breaking the second commandment by creating a false god, warm and fuzzy God who doesn't punish .. God is wrath as well as love and His justice is perfect, no one will be getting a free pass on their day of judgement , Jesus is the free pass and most will reject Him
busybody1 I’m not sure where you get a warm and fuzzy God from Calvinism. . . I agree there is a cheap grace gospel that is not biblical. But I have never heard that from Jeff or Apologia. That’s more word faith NAR.
Pastor jeff 1John 5:7 nkjv And there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Spirit and these three are one. Godbless america.
My view of presdestination is as such: God is sovereign and as such knows all and everything since before creation. He allows things to happen, good and bad, to His glory. Thank God He keeps His hands over all of us, or Satan would surely kill us all. That being said, He still gave us free will to make our own choices, good or bad, while always knowing what those choices would be. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
I agree mostly! God is sovereign, but its him who chooses us. Calvanist believe we have free will but not in choosing God because we are dead in our sins. So God is the one that draws and saves us, the only place I defer from calvinsm maybe is that that somehow out of our knowledge we are still responsible to respond to God when he calls us.
@@thomaskanke7922 you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth, as do the scheisters at Ligonier. God does not decide who will accept Christ, period. He ATONED for us all. Whetter we accept Him or not is up to us.
@@Tre492 Actually, if you are a Calvinist you read your idea of God into the scripture....it's called eisegesis. Exegesis is where you get something from the text. Nowhere in the Bible does it say people are predestined to hell without there own doing....but feel free to provide some clear scriptures that prove this position....since if this is God's character there should be many many scriptures.
In 1st Samuel 23:12 ( David asks Yahweh (God) if the people of Keilah will turn him and his men over to King Saul...and if not Saul would destroy the city. Can and is there any reconciliation in the possibility that Gods fore knowledge of something real and possible does not necessitate pre-destination. I hope that I not too far off topic, and if I am, please know that I have a strong desire to have a correct understanding of The Scriptures in all areas as specifically as humanly and God given possible! Thank God for you guys and for what you all do for His Glory! in Jesus wonderful name
Great video and biblical exposition, why so many take issue with Gods sovereignty is beyond me. Big God little man, most of Christianity in the west preach and believe the opposite Big human little genie god.
He simply misses the point: If God predestines people to go to hell BEFORE these people are even born they do NOT DESERVE hell the moment God makes his choice to throw them into hell. This is not matching with a God who IS love and does not want anyone to perish. It boils down to the question of Gods character. Of course God is sovereign to do whatever he wants to do. That is not the point. God is not restricted by ANYTHING outside of him. But he can not act against his own heart and character. God IS Love and he IS Holy without any conflict in himself. So Holiness is not an excuse for not expressing love and love is not an excuse for not being holy. Therefor predestination must meet BOTH.
@@discjockeydoll9643 Still you didn´t get the argument. The question is to you as a Calvinist: When does God elect people for salvation and what is with these people he does not elect? Calvinism teaches that Gods election takes place before people are existing and that a human being can do nothing to be elected. So therefore logically some are predestined to hell by not being chosen for salvation before they even exist. That is the problem of Calvinism. Well and who then is casting people to hell when we read this: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." ? (Rev. 20,15 KJV)
@@opfipip3711 The book of Romans addresses your argument. Romans 9:16: " It does not, therefore, depend on HUMAN DESIRE OR EFFORT, but on GOD'S MERCY." Romans 9:18: "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." And ESPECIALLY Romans 9:19 "One of you will say to me then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist HIS WILL?" BUT who are you , a human being to talk back to God?" Romans 8:29: " For those God FOREKNEW (meaning knew before) he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of his Son...." Ephesians 1:5: "In love he PREDESTINED us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with HIS PLEASURE AND WILL." Other scriptures that pertain to the elect include 2 Timothy 1:9, John 6:37, John 17:2-6, Jeremiah 1:5, Galatians 1:15, Roman's 9:10-16, John 6:44, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Roman's 12:3.... The word said it itself brother. Who are you a human being to talk back to God? It also says if Abraham were able to obtain his righteousness by works of the law, he would have a reason to boast in himself. If you think you play a part in even the SMALLEST FRACTION of your salvation, you in fact have a reason to boast in yourself, AND NOT in God. The word is very clear about this brother. I'm praying the holy spirit of the GOD OF THE GOSPEL opens your eyes to his true character. God bless you.
@@discjockeydoll9643 Look at the context. It is not about predestination of individuals for salvation. It is about the fact that salvation is coming to the gentiles. But Israel will be saved too at the end.
@@discjockeydoll9643 your dear sweet mother most likely is not among the elect, so she was destined for damnation in hell before she was even born, and you better be okay with that or you're a filthy hypocrite, argue my logic
B K I think we need to be careful in taking one passage, such as that, and using that to proof text what you are suggesting. Contrasty, later in Matthew during the Last Supper, Jesus tells his disciples to drink of the cup, which is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Additionally, Paul talks about in Romans that through one man's (Jesus) obedience, many will be made righteousness.
Joshua Brunner Actually, the Lutherans use that passage in Romans as a prooftext for objective justification, a sub-doctrine for universal atonement. So, I could point to another major denomination that birthed from the Reformation that would use that verse to deny limited atonement. Unless Jeff Durbin is an Amyraldian, he would deny universal atonement.
What is he talking about God's mercy for when according to calvinism, people are predestinated to be hostile and rebellious, They are predestinated to not receive God's Mercy.
@Loonytoones85 and you say I'm lying? Does every single person have the chance to get saved yes or no? Being made into a reprobate mind is not the same as the lie of people being created to be hostile and rebellious. Stop following this false fleshly tradition man.
@@MP-yc2ou he does both God does both God does what he wants wants to do just like they said about the Potter that use that as an example okay God, does what he wants he does predestined some but some of these were already Destin to to not choose him okay and so they're getting what they want which means they hate God cuz the world is a whole hates God before he saves us don't you get that? I do so the ones that take God they're going to get what they want but you'll be hell they're never going to turn to him, but God has also that just God so he says for whosoever calls on him so he does draw men unto him that's the mystery of God is that he he will save those who actually turned to him and there will be a lot that will turn to him
@@nickjaramillo9688 no man, God doesnt create anybody to go to hell. God gives people up to a reprobate mind at the most. God is not willing for any man to perish but for all to come TO HIM. This is why He is longsuffering towards us. Forgot about that scripture? This is what I mean by yall domt rightly divide the Word with the Word and eith God's character/nature. EVERYBODY has the chance to get saved
MP D1: It is interesting that you accuse people of not being able to read, when you yourself demonstrate a failure to read and understand context. Let me explain it for you. "But do not overlook this one fact, BELOVED, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward YOU, not wishing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance." The words I have written in all-caps represent a group of people, it is the group of people that the apostle Peter is writing to. The "ANY" that The Lord does not wish to perish and the "ALL" that should reach repentance are the same group of people, the "BELOVED". You need to remember that Peter is writing to a group of believers, he is not writing an open letter to the entire human race. So do you see now, how you have misread and misunderstood scripture? Do you see now how you have read your own interpretation into the scripture, rather than allowing the plain reading of the text to speak for itself?
If man is not responsible for their sin, than God is? That's ignorance God can not do evil. Why did Jesus need to die? If we were destined for hell why did Jesus die? Yes we all deserve hell, however Jesus died for who so ever shall believe in Him.
As the story goes, this god deliberately hardened Pharaos heart so he would not let the Israelis go free, thus allowing him to show off some magic woo and ultimately murder a bunch of children. Seems nice... not!
@Friday’s are cool If you, say for argument sake, were a 80 year old man. Would you take the critique of a three year old as a malicious personal attack? If not, then why would me critiquing that train wreck of a compilation be taken as a personal attack by a being with a tad bit more understanding than an old man? If yes, I pity you. If those texts indeed are the "word of god" then this supposedly almighty god thought of them as communicating exactly what it wanted. And the god described in the OT is an asshole.
If God predestined Pilate to crucify Jesus (see Acts 4) then he isn’t responsible for his actions? No. You’re just not thinking about this correctly at all. People are responsible for what they do, God doesn’t force them to sin.
You smart guys debate all you want. I know where I’m going when I die. My favorite author A.W. Tozer wrote this: “God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, "0 Lord, Thou knowest." Those things belong to the deep and mysterious profound of God's omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints."
In The Forgotten Trinity James White uses a good analogy. He says that not studying theology is like saying "I love my wife" but never trying to learn anything about her.
@@bobbcanaan The flaw in that analogy is that unlike a human marriage (two flawed people) God has already made us PERFECT through Christ, so our knowledge of theology does not have any bearing in our walk with him. He already did the work, and to suggest otherwise is to downplay the power of what Jesus did, and take the focus from him and put it onto us.
The context of Romans 9 is NOT salvation. Paul taught the Doctrine of Justification in 3:21-5:11. The context of Romans 9 - 11 is God's Relationship with Israel. Paul is NOT saying that God chose Jacob for salvation but he is saying that God chose to keep the line of promise through Jacob and not Esau.
Romans 11:11-24 and John 15 give great light to this issue of salvation...(we can be grafted in and then broken (love the use of broken instead of cut, because it implies deception) off, but then also regrafted in)) our focus should be on our hearts not on things like predestination...btw His ways are higher than ours...somethings are remaining in mystery for greater purposes than our understanding. “Do not say, "I will repay evil"; wait for the Lord, and he will deliver you. Unequal weights are an abomination to the Lord, and false scales are not good. A man's steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way?” Proverbs 20:22-24 ESV
Also in this context I am meaning to keep our hearts in line with scripture...but I figured that would go without being said...that’s why I included scripture and not my opinions.
First John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. But only those who believe are saved. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. What is the truth. The gospel, That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures. When we believe that gospel and know we can never be condemned again, John 3:18, We are given the seal of the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. After we believe we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13. In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also AFTER ye believed, ye were sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise. Born again, born of God. We are not given the Holy Spirit until we believe the gospel. Not before. Calvinism leads a lot of people to hell, believing they are chosen, but never do the will of His Father. John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that all that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. If Calvinism is true, then John 3:16 is not true. For God so loved the world, (everybody) that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, (anybody,) BELIEVETH in Him, should not perish but HAVE EVERASTING LIFE. Jesus said it, I believe it, and that settles it. Calvinism says we have to persevere in the faith to stay saved. Works salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Salvation is a free gift from God to all who believe in Him plus nothing to be saved. Faith is not a work. It takes no effort to believe the gospel that our sin debt is paid in full and we can never be condemned again. John 3:16. But, we have to be born again, born of God. Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30. Romans 8-9 Without the Spirit of God, there is no salvation. With the Spirit we have eternal life. What if we lose our faith? Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He can not deny Himself. His Holy Spirit that lives in the believer. The one requirement for salvation is to repent, change your mind from trusting in what we do to save us, to trusting in what HE did to save us. Repent is the Greek word metanoia, or metanoeo. Meta means change, and noia means mind. IT means to change your mind from trusting in our works to save us, to trusting in Jesus finished work to save us. Galatians 2:21 I do not void the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. We are saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith is not the gift, Eternal life is the gift when we believe. Romans 6:23.
@@areyoutheregoditsmedave, Eschatology on line dictionary: the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
Jeff, you mentioned that you believe that the majority of all people will be saved. I was just curious how you would harmonize that view with Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Thank you very much for your comments in advance. God bless you
Jeff Durbin, Can you answer this please? HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT GOD CREATED JACK FORM NOTHING(none-existing) and damn him to hell for eternal torture by not obeying Him? Thanks for any Calvinist who can answer me this question....
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC, I am sure that I am saved, but I asked that Question because I don't agree with with some of the beliefs of the Calvinist.... Can you answer that for me? I mistyped the word 'FORM', It should be 'FROM'...
Exodus 22.22: Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. Exodus 22.23: If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; Exodus 22.24: And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. Deuteronomy 24.14: Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates: Proverbs 14.3: He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor. Proverbs 17.5: Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: And he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished. Proverbs 22.16: He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, And he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want. Proverbs 28.3: A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food. Matthew 5.3: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5.4: Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5.5: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That's naughty. I used to be a janitor and I am insecure but I will stick with what the Bible says. It's all of God's grace, not anything of ourselves.
PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰 God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎 THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE. In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed) Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23 Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience) v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8 v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU. I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE. Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin. Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the W🌎RLD. (Goats are on the left) John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS. 6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus. John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD. Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. What does PRE-DESTINATED mean? Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began, Destination means where you end up after time is over. Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD: 5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL. Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh) BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. 1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU. The Cross, Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD. The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,, Who will never chosen to be saved. God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH. John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name: 13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL. John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD. John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD. John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT. 4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE. John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you. 27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME: John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. Speaking of Judas Iscariot. John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,, 15:19 19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you. John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM. JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD. John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me, John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are. John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE. Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC Must I go on.
@@aut0mat1c11PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰 God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎 THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE. In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed) Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23 Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience) v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8 v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU. I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE. Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin. Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the W🌎RLD. (Goats are on the left) John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS. 6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus. John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD. Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. What does PRE-DESTINATED mean? Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began, Destination means where you end up after time is over. Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD: 5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL. Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh) BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN. 1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU. The Cross, Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD. The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,, Who will never chosen to be saved. God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH. John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name: 13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL. John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD. John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD. John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT. 4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE. John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you. 27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME: John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. Speaking of Judas Iscariot. John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,, 15:19 19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you. John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM. JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD. John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me, John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are. John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE. Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC Must I go on.
Kwaku stepping into a deep pile of shenanigans here. Before this stream of content devastating his credibility is over, he might just reconsider churning out ignorant content.
right I agree. But it is too bad a lot of us have already seen a bunch of his ignorant content and we know that this kwaku guy does not go by the word of God.
Actually, he is referring to those already in heaven in that passage ! Check out "Lawrence Feingold on Freedom of the Will called to communion" (its not on TH-cam, you have to search and listen to the audio only unfortunately). to understand free will and all of this stuff jeff is talking about. He's great, but he is simply wrong on this...
Birefly :By quoting Malachi 1:2-3, Paul raised his discussion from the level of personal election to national election. Malachi was speaking of nations, as the context of this Malachi quotation shows. Paul's point was that God does not wait until He sees how individuals or nations develop, and what choices they make, before He elects them. God chose Jacob and the nation of Israel for reasons that lay within Himself, not because they merited election (cf. Deut 7:6-8).-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------More Depth :Predestination : 9:9 God did not choose to bless Isaac, after his birth, only because he was Abraham's son. Rather He promised Abraham, before Isaac's birth, that He would provide and bless a son for the patriarch supernaturally ("at this time"). His unusual birth confirmed God's choice of Isaac, as the channel of special blessing, to his parents. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The quote from Malachi : In replying to the people's charge, the Lord asked them if "Esau" was not "Jacob's brother." Yet God had "loved Jacob," the younger, and "hated Esau," the older. The evidence of God's hatred for Esau was that He had "made" the ("his [Esau's]) mountains" of Seir, the inheritance that God gave Esau and his descendants, a desolate "wilderness." Unstated is the fact that God had given Jacob a land flowing with milk and honey for his inheritance, which proved His love for that brother. God chose Jacob even though Rebekah bore Esau before Jacob. As in the case of Isaac, God made a choice between them before their birth. Their birth was also supernatural since their mother was barren. i.e God predestined and manifested the entirety of the events, election, and blessings undeserved by merit or character. ( Since one can argue that Esau was more admirable than his brother - further illustrating Gods Predestined Election is not based on who we are or our faithfulness to Him, but His faithfulness to us.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To Romans - The Mystery of Election. God chooses who will believe and undeservingly be saved in site of their sin. God thus decides who will rebel and deservingly be lost because of their sin.
As a believer who follows more the doctrine of Arminianism, I believe the Bible teaches suffering is a necessary for as many as possible of their own free will to embrace the doctrine of forgiveness made available only by Christ’s sacrifice.
Mr. Durban, I watch way more of your videos on TH-cam , than an individual probably should, I had begun to appreciate your efforts. This video, however, begins in a way that is well beneath where a man of God should be. Be very careful when you cast the aspersions you do. Calling others liars, insinuating that they lack integrity in the way they present what others believe, when that just isn’t so, is itself something other than truthful. Jeff, I have to believe you yourself are aware of what you are doing. As a Reformed Christian you certainly are aware of the fact that from the times of the life of Calvin himself, MOST of our brother Christians have expressed Calvin’s view of the scriptures EXACTLY the way Kwaku does. He is not lying , nor misrepresenting, nor lacking integrity when he challenges the very hard to defend Calvinist concept of free will. Free will confined by a sin nature imposed upon all mankind from birth, in a universe where God is in charge of everything in every moment, isn’t free will at all, I am sure your view of free will isn’t any different than what the noted atheist Sam Harris teaches. The fact that you think you can make that equation work, is something you should be proud of. If you are truthful, however, don’t pretend that, the semantic gymnastics you are performing is anywhere NEAR, the Christian theology taught, believed and espoused by the vast majority of Christians alive today or who have ever lived.
Amen! I wish he would just explain in simple terms what Calvinism says. If Kwaku is really presenting a strawman, then Jeff should explain what the real position is so that we can all benefit from that. By just insulting the opposition, I have no idea if the strawman accusation has any merit. And even if it does have merit, I have no way to avoid making the same mistake until I know what the mistake is.
@@BuildingApologetics Reformed theists, take a narrow, minority, view of who God is, and how He interacts with each of us. They know this to be true, yet insist what they believe is CLEARLY expressed in scripture. That is, in itself, more than a bit disingenuous. If the reformed position is worthy of consideration, it must be so, in the space in which it truly exists, a marginal Christian view, not held by the vast majority of faithful believers throughout the entire history of the Church. Good men, great Christians, in all ages have rejected the views held by Calvin. Rejection of the semantic gymnastics used by Mr. Durban here, does not stem from a position of untruth, but from a conceptualization of a loving God, expressed in the life of Jesus Christ. Kwaku makes the mistake of trying to define his belief in that God, against men who rely on, now, centuries of Calvinists rewriting the very definitions of Christian terms themselves. If Mormons can be said to use the same words as Christians, yet define those words differently, then the same must be true of reformed theists; there is no way around that determination. In the context of deviation from the mainstream, and supposed teaching of an alternate version of Christianity (the nature of the Father and the Son, salvation, the atonement, etc.), reformed Christians, then, represent an aberration of the “true” gospel message themselves. I would take the inclusive, universal atonement ideals of the Mormons any day over the exclusive arrogance of Calvinism. Calvinists espouse humility, by denying they have any part in their salvation. But truly it is ultimate arrogance to believe they alone truly understand the Bible while considering they themselves elected to a club that excludes the vast majority of the children of God. Simply put, if a belief in salvation offered through the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, can ONLY come to depraved men, through the irresistible effect of unconditional election, then everyone who knows Jesus Christ is their Savior, no matter how they believe that to be true, or what they (with the limited mind their electing Creator gave them) understand the Son’s nature to be, are the elect. That includes Kwaku... I have heard this understanding expressed by R.C. Sproul himself. Even Mr. Durban will express (from time-to-time) his personal view that the Grace of God will be extended to the masses of mankind at some point. From what I understand of Christianity, a man only brings condemnation on himself, by bearing false witness of others. We must avoid doing that at all costs.
@@markcampbell8068you sir are lost. You'd take momonism over calvinism? All these well articulated words mean nothing when you hold the true ignorance friend. Predestination is biblical. Nothing taught by reformed theologist is false. The catholic church fell into falsehood and the reformers through the grace of God REFORMED from the error of their way.
@@markcampbell8068explain where in scripture it says salvation will be brought to the masses eventually? It's a few, a remnant of CHOSEN people. It's a hard pill to swallow for some, but hearing in the spirit is different than hearing in the ear.
@@andrewcoffman3600 If I were to believe in the Calvinist error as you do, I don't think I would feel comfortable so easily finding fault and casting aspersion on the vast majority of professing believers in the Son of God as you do. After all, you are in the favored position of knowing "divine truth" through absolutely no accomplishment of your own - And the rest of us? We are where we are, through no fault of our own. In a very real way I guess I can confidently say, I am living in accordance with God's will as well, or better, than you are. For it seems, I am not elect and totally depraved; yet somehow I have come to believe in the Savior and read the Word constantlly with no help from my Father in Heaven at all... What act of grace did you accomplish today through your own doing? If I am lost, I am in that state because it is God's bidding; I would be denying His will by searching any other path. By seeking to point me in another way, isn't it you who is "kicking against the pricks?" By your definition, ignorance is indeed bliss... I am ever thankful for all that God has given me, for being who He wants me to be, for experiencing the lessons of mortallity He has offered to me. I am thankful for the atoning sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and the complete restoration that sacrifice provides for us all. I hope you are too...
Calvinism is a disgrace to Christianity. Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have MERCY on WHOM I WILL have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.11 For the scripture saith, WHOSOEVER believeth on him shall not be ashamed.12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto ALL that call upon him.13 For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have MERCY UPON ALL. John 12: 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men unto me. The so called debate with Kwaku was a disgrace and a joke.
@lordboston05 You quoted John 12: 32: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men unto me." Would be so kind as to harmonize the words of Jesus you quoted above with His words in the following passages?: John 6:37: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (KJV) -- And, John 6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (KJV) -- And, Matthew 11:27: All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (KJV) Thanks
e MI God has mercy on whom he will....and he decided to have mercy on all through Jesus Christ. The gospel we preach is that of Jesus sacrificing himself on the cross for the sins of the world and his resurrection from the dead. Jesus himself told you that he would draw all men to him if he was crucified. It is very clear that those who were given are the disciples. We know this because its those who received his teachings and were shown that he was from the father. Also, it narrows this group when it says that he lost one....Judas....a disciple John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou GAVEST ME out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which SHALL BELIEVE on me THROUGH their WORD; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. I hope you can see the truth of the matter.
lordboston05 Thanks for your reply. -- You wrote: "I hope you can see the truth of the matter." I'm trying, hence my questions. -- You wrote: "God has mercy on whom he will....and he decided to have mercy on all through Jesus Christ." On whom does He have mercy? Is it on all men universally--saving all through Jesus Christ? Or, is it on all those believing in Him, including the Jews? -- You wrote: "It is very clear that those who were given are the disciples." Of course, Jesus' high priestly prayer of John 17 was for the disciples given to Him. But, whether it was as narrow as you assert, can be left for another discussion. -- You wrote: "We know this because its those who received his teachings and were shown that he was from the father." Yes, and how does that happen? Your statements on these matters, however, were non responsive to my request for scriptural harmonization of the texts previously cited. Let's try it like this: -- You wrote: "Jesus himself told you that he would draw all men to him if he was crucified." Yes, but before Jesus told us that, he explained the following: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..." --John 6:37a; and, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." --John 6:44a So, according to Jesus, who are the "all" that come to Him and under what condition can they come to Him? And, is the "whomsoever" of Matthew 11:27, everyone, i.e., all men--universally? Thanks again. Grace and peace.
e MI The disciples were clearly chosen/given to Jesus while he was on earth. This is not the case for all who will ultimately believe in him. Faith is not a work. And it is your burden to prove that John 6 provides and exception that undermines all of scripture or a clarification for the condition of the apostles. John 17 provides you a clear way to distinguish who was given to Christ and those would believe through the word after the cross. Its worth noting that even Paul(an apostle) was a chosen vessel of God. We know that this is not true of all believers. Calvinism and its doctrines blinds you and others to the truth of scripture. As for Matthew 11:27 The verse that follows it makes its clear 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. We know that we rest in Christ if we hear the word and believe. Has he not revealed the Father to all of us?
lordboston05 -- You wrote: "The disciples were clearly chosen/given to Jesus while he was on earth. This is not the case for all who will ultimately believe in him." Are saying the following scripture is not for those "who will ultimately believe in him."?: (I broke up Eph. 1:3-13 into chunks for better readability.) Ephesians 1:3-6: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:7-12: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Ephesians 1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise -- You wrote: "Its worth noting that even Paul(an apostle) was a chosen vessel of God. We know that this is not true of all believers. Really? How do we know that, when Paul (the same Apostle) himself wrote?: Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. No, we are not Apostles, but are we not "His workmanship--His vessels--His chosen? -- You wrote: "Has he not revealed the Father to all of us?" Yes, He has. "...to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." His voice, His sheep. Thanks you kindly, but no need to concern yourself over my eyesight. Just got them checked, they be good. Grace and peace.
Ok, but here’s my quick question in regards to this idea: before humans exist, they have to be created, so if humans are created by God, who molds them, why are they guilty of eternal wrath before they even exist to chose him or not? This is like saying, my son, who hasn’t been born yet, has been predestined before he opens his eyes, to suffer for eternity, because God chose for him to suffer before he has a choice to follow God in the first place.
Your understanding is correct. The book of life with the names of the elect was written before the foundations of the earth were created. So, every person before they are either born have a pre-determined eternal destiny that is either in heaven or hell. Every person either receives mercy or they receive justice as Paul explains in Romans 9
The Bible says we are predestined and it says we have free will. So it is both, whether it makes sense to me or not is irrelevent, I am not God. I actually have come to understand this, therefore this theological difference is not problematic for me. A lot of time is wasted debating Arminianism and Calvinism.
Amen and amen Jeff. Sometimes we can't imagine the magnitude of the fact that God gives grace to ANY of us so we take it for granted. Thank you for fleshing this out. When I think of His grace and His power I have no choice but to fall to my knees in a heap. I am undone.
Grace is miraculous. None of us can understand it, the closer we come to God, the more we realize how miraculous his grace is. But, God has given us commandments. How can he judge his own creation contrary to Genesis chapter 1? He called it good. Why then did he create some for glory and others for destruction if they cannot choose what he has called good? And the idea that we are both free in will and yet predetermined is anything but compatable. You cannot be both free and determined. Ought implies can. -Immanuel Kant.
@@nicolaslosito5735 No but I do have a degree in philosophy and a God given mind of reason. Let me tell you, the question of free will vs determinism has been debated for all recorded history with neighter side progressing any further on the other. Compatablism is unsound, in the realm of possibility, it is the only impossibility. What you are claiming is determinism. Nothing else, nothing more. You cannot be predetermined and also free to choose. What do you mean by free will? You mean God allows people to freely choose what he has already decided? If so, that is exactly what free will, is not.
In all that recorded history... Determinism has not been the position of the God of Israel or later, the followers of Christ. Determinism is a materialist world view. Book of Genesis is ontological at the core. The very purpose for which we are created for is rooted in choice and is the illustration that God has given to us for understanding of our very origin. Teach a child the story of creation in Genesis. Go immediately to your doctrine and the child will know you are reading from another book or else from a very confused author
"I believe a vast majority of humanity will be shown grace" my bible says the path is narrow, Few are those who find it. We'd love to hear your thoughts on that. 1 thing the bible is clear on, yet so many are so confused on is, Whosoever means anyone, all means anyone, anyone means everyone, the sick, the heavy laden, hungry, thirsty, tired, poor, hurt, lost, seeking, blind, lame. Salvation is for anyone who falls, or at some point has fallen into one or all of those categories. Calvin wasn't a good person spiritually or morally. If I did believe His theology, my biggest problem would be that God chose Him. Do your homework a little more thoroughly. Predestination is the awesome plan God has laid for anyone who meets the requirements set before them by God. "to Him who seeks me, I will by no means cast Him out"
You should read the first half of that verse you cited at the end of your paragraph.... The Total of John 6:37 is as follows... John 6:37 ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVES TO ME SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
@@conradmiller8984 ok, everything is God's. I'm pretty sure that we can agree on that. God sent the sacrifice, Jesus, who made a way for us to be redeemed by His blood. God's plan, through Jesus. God is the Judge. I stand before the Judgement of God, He has declared me "not guilty", thus the verdict is in favor of the defendant, Jesus, not Satan, the accuser of the brethren. Jesus calls His own, whoever God has given eternal life. There is a dimension in the Trinity that we lack understanding of, but it is beyond our comprehension.
@@cliffcartwright5577 John 6:44 Jesus himself says that no one can come to him unless the father draws them. You seem to be saying the opposite. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
@@conradmiller8984 Yes, God the father draws us. How? I was drawn to my wife because she is absolutely gorgeous, not fat and ugly. God's character is revealed in His word, His love, His goodness, and His mercy- Jesus Christ himself. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing of the Word of God. The Word became flesh, some were drawn to Jesus, others had better things to do. Look at the rich young ruler. I think you see it as if it's a secret that God is good. That he is a good father, that He will fulfill What He says. I believe that Jesus was very clear on who He came for. Anyone who doesn't think they are fine the way they are. Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you, resist the devil, and he will flee from you. No temptation has .... Have a great day!
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending: "God has committed all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all ... From him and through him and to him are all things." (Rom. 11:32,36)
I think you would agree with me that the scriptures must harmonize. My question is how do you reconcile 1st Timothy 2:4 and 2nd Peter 3:9 which clearly tell us God desires all men to be saved and is not willing that any should perish? If he only elects a certain few then doesn't that make him a schizophrenia?
@@timmarchbanks5241 Oh brother… Okay well firstly I notice you completely ignored the other passage I cited in 1 Timothy 2:4 so let us take another quick look at what GOD tells us here. **Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.** Note the context is for us to be praying for all men including kings and authority figures and to live godly before them. Why? Because God desires ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. This can’t just mean “all chosen men” because if He determines in advance who will be saved, then that’s like saying I desire everyone I choose to give a hundred bucks to have a hundred bucks. If I chose them and gave it to them then of course they will have it. In the context it doesn’t matter who the book was written to this doesn’t in any way change the intended meaning. If I wrote a letter to my children and said I wish for all children to be happy, my children would know I didn’t just mean all of my children. I don’t think it could be any more clear that the desire of God is for ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Now let’s look at 2 Peter 3:9 **But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.** The context is concerning scoffers who are claiming that the promise of His return has been a long time now and He still hasn’t come. Peter says that the Lord has been longsuffering regarding His return because He is not willing that any should perish. Again the same principle applies here as with 1 Timothy 2. How is any predestined person going to “perish” if they have been predestined? It’s utter nonsense to claim that because the book was written to those who are saved that the context means God is concerned about those He has predestined being lost. The “any” (or all) here can only mean all who are lost and have not received by choice God’s amazing gift. Yes if a teacher says to here class “Are we all here” she obviously means just those enrolled in her class. But if she says to her class, “Are we all responsible for taking care of the planet?” she obviously means all in a much broader sense. To claim God is longsuffering because He is concerned about His predestined perishing makes Him to be worse than a schizophrenia, it turns Him into a moron. He desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and is longsuffering not willing that any should perish. That’s pretty easy to understand unless you have a pet doctrine your trying to rescue.
@@timmarchbanks5241 **if God desires all men to be saved and is waiting for all men to come to repentance, why do not all men come to repentance?** Firstly it doesn’t say He is waiting for all men to repent. It just says He desires all men, and that He is being longsuffering towards all men, but not all men want to or will repent. You have to understand why this whole thing is happening first. Why did God create Adam and Eve who He knew would fall in the garden? Why did He speak and say let there be light? Why did He create this universe to contain humanity? Did you ever ask any of these questions while reading the accounts of creation? Most people understand “how” He created everything within six days but few take the time to gleam from the scriptures “why” He did it. There is actually one place in the book where this is revealed to us. It was when Jesus was talking to the woman at the well. She was talking about worship and said some teach to worship God on this mountain and the Jews say in the temple. She was just wanting to know which was correct. However, Jesus took us all down an interesting road saying that the day will come when true worshipers will do neither, but will worship God in Spirit and in truth. Then Jesus said something that slips by most people. He said for God “seeks” such to worship Him. The idea here that Jesus conveyed is that God’s purpose is for people to have the ability to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Or you might say that God seeks to have real meaningful relationships with people who love Him and are real with Him. Now I can program my locked phone screen to scroll the words “I love you” across the screen but those words would not be meaningful. It would just be forced programming. However when I get a random text from my wife during the day that says “I love you,” my heart skips a beat and I get excited. That’s because I know she didn’t have to say those words, she freely chose to. The fact of the matter is that any kind of a real love relationship demands four properties in order to be real. L-Liberty. The person must have liberty to choose to love me or reject me. If I put a gun to my wife’s head and demand she tells me she loves me, she might say the words but they wouldn’t mean anything. O-Opportunity. The person must be given the opportunity to choose to love or not to love. Only when I dated my wife and gave her the opportunity to get to know me and to choose to love me did it become meaningful. There are plenty of women who never chose to love me and this fact is evidence to my wife that she did indeed have a free choice. If every woman she ever met was madly in love with me then she would be apt to think it was something that all women were programmed to do. Likewise, if God only created people He knew would choose to love Him then He would be denying a lot of people the opportunity and He would create a condition in which I would think I had no choice but to love Him because everyone I knew did. Follow? So, God created those who He foreknew would not choose to love Him along with those who would even though they were given the same free choice that I was given. In that way I know that my love for Him is real meaningful love and not programming. V-Value. Real love must have value. If my wife told me she loved me and didn’t care if I slept around on her with other women, then I would not see any value in her love. The fact that there are consequences to cheating on her increases the value of her love exponentially. Likewise, if God said He loves everyone and doesn’t care what we do, we all get to go to heaven, His love would have no value at all. The fact that there are consequences for sin and He did the unthinkable by sending His only begotten Son to pay those consequences makes His love most valuable. When I see what He did for me and I receive His amazing gift, and then I see the consequences to those who reject it, I value His love above all else. Real love must have value. E-Expression. Real love must be expressed. If I said I love my wife but I never asked her on a date and eventually to marry me, what good is my so-called love? But when I stood at an alter before God and men and proclaimed my love for her I have now expressed it. God of course expressed His love for us when He sent His Son to the cross, therefore it is not unreasonable for Him to expect us to freely express our love for Him by making that verbal confession of His Lordship over us. (Rom. 10:9-10) When we understand the “why” and the four requirements of real love, then the fact that “wide is the path that leads to destruction and many are on it,” doesn’t seem unreasonable at all.
@@timmarchbanks5241 The same thing it means in the following passage: **2 Tim. **2:24**-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.** The idea conveyed is that by our gentle spirit, not quarrelling, and patience, we will help them to see the truth and thereby be granted repentance escaping the snare of the devil. It doesn’t mean they have no choice in the matter. It means we can be better teachers if we stop trying to be right more than being loving. This will help them see the truth and make the correct “choice” in which God will grant the repentance He has appropriated to all who make that choice.
@@timmarchbanks5241 **The problem I have with that kind of thinking is that you have to deal with Phil **1:30** and John **6:44** Belief is granted and men must be drawn** I think you meant Phil. 1:29. Which I already addressed previously. Yes belief is granted. In second Timothy 2:24-26 we are told that a person is “granted” repentance to the acknowledging of the truth. That means that we have to “choose” to acknowledge the truth and repentance is then granted. Do we have to be “drawn?” Of course, absolutely. As you pointed out in John 6:44 Jesus made this very clear. The question I have then is who is being drawn? Well if we are going to listen to John 6:44 we also must listen to John 12:32 where Jesus tells us when He is lifted up He will “draw” ALL men. The gospel goes out to all men and calls all men. All men are given the choice to respond to the gospel. They have to “acknowledge” the truth before God will “grant” them repentance. To this passage I expect you will try and claim He means He will draw all “predestined” men from all classes of men. Let me just save you some time and ask you to go with me to 1John 2:2 where we read that Jesus Himself is the propitiation for our sins and for those of the “whole world.” There is no doubt by these texts that it is more than just the “elect” being drawn. It is all men of the whole world, but according to Jesus only a few will “find” that narrow way. **If you say that all men are drawn somehow and then must choose or deny you’ll have massive problems with verses such as Phil 1:6.** No there is no problem with free will and this passage because the scriptures also teach that we are kept by the power of God. Meaning you don’t lose salvation. Some have a false faith and appear to fall away, and some who have a true faith may backslide, but once we are His it is then Him who keeps us. If He keeps us, then He also keeps working on us until our faith is complete and we are a perfect reflection of Him. He drew us with His gospel and His Spirit, we acknowledged the truth and thus He was the author of our faith, then He continues to work in us to complete the work He has begun in us. He’s the author and finisher. **If God desires salvation for all men as you say why does He not draw and grant belief to them?** I’m sorry friend I’ve already explained this several times. I really don’t know how else to convey it to you. If I have a deed and a key to a brand-new mansion wrapped in a small gift. I walk up to a homeless man and offer him the gift. He can choose to accept or reject it. What he can’t do is boast about how great of a gift receiver he is. God offers each of us an amazing unspeakable gift. That is the very nature of a gift. You have the choice to receive it or not. Just because you have that choice and you accept it does not give you room to in anyway boast…which is really at the heart of this. Those who believe in election are so scared of any possibility of boasting that they strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
@@timmarchbanks5241 **No reformed individual claims we do not have a choice in the matter of salvation. we are volitional creatures who desire things and choose things of our own will. Your whole acronym for love is built on a massive misunderstanding of reformed theology.** I’m sorry friend but I’m going to show my ignorance here. I have no clue what “reformed theology” is. I just love Jesus and study the Bible. I have never been to Bible school or taken any formal training. I know some terms from what I have picked up in conversations with Bible students. I just have an amazing love and gratitude for my Savior and His word and know He wants us to go out into the highways and byways and compel people to come in. He doesn’t give us busy work. He uses us to reach sinners of whom I was once chief. **Pre conversion, we aren’t running around seeking God.** I fully agree with you. However when someone presents the truth to us we at that moment can choose to acknowledge that truth or reject it. **God must come and give us a new heart before we can ever think about choosing Him, if he does not do this, who will choose Him?** Where does it say this? Basically what you are saying here is we must change in order to want to change. That doesn’t make any logical sense and that is not what the Bible teaches us friend. **Calvinists and Arminians should be able to agree on these points and praise Christ for His mercies in all things.** I praise Christ that in spite of your doctrine you have faith in Him. Nowhere does it say we have to have perfect doctrine to go to heaven. I guess here is my ultimate concern and as I mentioned above I know Calvinists are concerned about boasting, well my concern is about a notion that only certain people are predestined to go to heaven and therefore it isn’t all that urgent for me to go out and share the gospel. I have met many Calvinists since my conversion 30 years ago. From the moment my feet hit the floor as a new Christian I began going out into the streets of St. Louis and preaching the gospel. All the Calvinists I have met in those 30 years have been actually in opposition to me not supportive of me. And I have never once met a Calvinist who was just out to only proclaim the gospel. I see them out protesting abortion clinics which I also abhor and maybe sharing some gospel, but have never seen them just out there trying to reach the lost “period.” That is troubling to me my friend. And I believe, you can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is because in the back of their minds their doctrine has them convinced to do so is pointless because God will save who He elects regardless. I am convinced that the enemy of Christ has fed predestination to the saints and we bought it. His end game is always to shut us up about this Jesus and this predestination doctrine encourages our silence.
@@christianmama2441 Last time I checked you nor I are not one of the greatest prophets to ever live. Just because Johns life was predestined does NOT mean yours is. That is a stretch!
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No. /We have enough heresy from you
Wow, your really comparing what God willingly and lovingly put HIMSELF through with what man sadistically does AGAINST another person.
Not the same at all, the opposite even.
Is this sick? God determine a man to make his son kill another man?
That's what you are saying when you make God out to be the author of evil.
You're saying there is a justifiable reason for evil? Really?
Again, Jesus willingly laid His body down on the cross, willingly allowed to be beaten to a bloody pulp and comparing that with an evil man torturing and raping a woman AGAINST her will.
One brings about life, the other death. How is that the same?
If God, in His infinite power and wisdom were to create a being in His image and likeness, including the ability to make their own choices, could He not maintain and keep intact His Sovereignty?
See, when you allow someone to make their own choices, rather than control every decision they make, good or bad, your hands are clean of any wrongdoing but if you control their every decision how is it not the puppet master to blame for any wrongdoing?
Its a dizzying privilege to be alive today under Almighty God's grace! What an amazing life He has given us!
Amen & AMEN!
Calvanism is definitely "dizzying" :)
My parents gave me life not your imaginary god
Calvinism has a false God who does not have mercy, though you may be saved your teachings will not save many and will do the contrary
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
Amen Jeff amazing video God is sovereign over everything and in control and we need to just put our faith and trust in Him and do His will our lives our the best in His hands and He knows best
This teaching is biblical and it’s so sad that someone would deny it “ for the very fact that it’s so comforting knowing that he has a purpose for everything that takes place in our lives!
Jeff Durbin should of studied the book of life in Bible school 🤣🤓 every humans name is written in the book of life when there babies, therefore everyone is predestined to the choice of Salvation, when they get to a certain age they then can reject Jesus with there free will and there name will be blotted out of the book of life, Jeff is preaching a doctrine of the devil
@@EricBaxter-f2k No, Calvinism is not Biblical, and no, God does not control our actions.
Calvinists badly misunderstand (or simply reject) the Bible, and God's sovereignty doesn't refer to His controlling us because He absolutely doesn't.
God's sovereignty refers to His having jurisdiction over us, period.
You guys are spot-on!
I'm extremely particular in what I believe!
Thank you Lord Jesus!
And thank you too guys!
6:18 I'm glad you said "personally" bc the Scriptures say only a few will find salvation. (Matthew 7:14)
He was talking about in the end times, he wasn't talking about throughout the course of history
@@waholoopesorry74I don’t see where He was speaking about the end of time only. What about the parable of the sower and seeds? 3 out of 4 places where the seeds fell did not survive.
@@kennybryson6542 He has a postmillennial viewpoint in regards to eschatology. Christ will have dominion over the Earth before the church is resurrected, and Jeff believes most in those times will come to believe in Jesus. He has several videos on this topic
@@kennybryson6542in th entire context of the Bible every baby ever born has there name written in the book of life, making everyone predestined to the choice of salvation, when they get to a Certin age they can reject jesus and there names get blotted out from the book of life ole Jeff Durbin should of Studied the book of life in Bible study 🤓
@@DH-vy8hw God does not decide, though, who will accept Christ.
Christ loves us all. He atoned for us all, and salvation is offered to us all. We either accept or reject Christ.
Romans 9, if understood as Leighton Flowers explains it, makes so much more sense and is more beautiful than any Calvinist interpretation. Romans 9 is not about salvation, but God's redemptive plan and the people He's elected to bring it about. Paul is talking to hardened Jews who crucified the Messiah, and they must accept that was the role that God chose them to play.
That's because Flowers is qualified to exegete the scripture, unlike many Calvinists "theologians" who are like 5-yr old wannabe mechanics disassembling and reassembling an engine, only to find a whole box of leftover parts once they're done. Then they have to convince themselves why those parts aren't really needed.
@@timmarchbanks5241 regardless of how you spin it, Calvinism gets it wrong
Calvinist is a cult and no salvation at all.
@@thomasthepromise8430 It's so funny that non-reformed believers accuse reformed believers of handling the scripture in a way that the non-reformed person actually has to do in order to not come to the straightforward conclusions that reformed people do.Just watch the debate between Flowers and James White on Romans 9.Dr. White went first and went through the chapter verse by verse and drew his interpretation from a straightforward reading of the chapter without going to any other verses in the Bible to support his interpretation.When it was Leighton's turn he did not exegete the chapter and bounced around to other scriptures to try to make his case for his interpretation.
@@Brenda-qo4ko what you described White doing is called eisegesis, the exact opposite of exegesis. Proper exegesis must be done hermeneutically, which involves applying the particular passage being studied into its proper context. In other words, it is utterly irresponsible to study Romans 9 without considering how it fits into the context of the whole letter, and the whole letter within the context of the whole counsel of scripture. And that's what Flowers is doing, thus he is practicing proper hermeneutics and exegesis. White is reading his own philosophical system into Romans 9, then making Romans 9 defend his philosophical worldview. I really hope you can see the difference.
What a WONDEROUS HOLY GOD....So full of MERCY & GRACE... Thank you for sharing this...
Whenever you say “ watch this” it’s reminds me of dear, sweet Charles Stanley
Lauri Snipes oh YES! I love when Charles Stanley says that. He really grabs my attention.
“Watch This”
😂😂❤️❤️❤️ he’s so sweet.
Charles Stanley was a false teacher, who rejected this very doctrine, and never taught on it. He also never publicly rebuked his son, who is a heretic, and false teacher, as well. When so-called pastors go beyond, or reject "take away" from scripture, they are not gatekeepers of the faith. It didn't matter that Charles was Andy's father, they both profess Christ, and therefore should be held accountable to their scriptural errors and false teachings. That includes calling out heresy, whether they be your family member or not. Jesus said that "if you are not willing to forsake lived ones to follow Me then you are not worthy of me!"
* loved
@@downsify 🙁. Well I happened to love him. Btw he is baptist so a Calvinist
Predestination is NOT about the salvation of lost people.
It’s about the guaranteed future of SAVED people.
Predestination doesn’t speak to who is saved or not.
Rather, it speaks to the ‘DESTINY’ of those who ARE SAVED/elect.
It speaks to God’s ENDS for the elect who are ALREADY IN CHRIST THROUGH FAITH (Believers).
It is the BELIEVERS who are the ones who love God, and who are therefore foreknown by Him.
IN CHRIST they possess redemption and the forgiveness of sins by faith.
BELIEVERS are predestined by God.
*It does NOT say that unbelievers are predestined TO BE believers.*
Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and NOT ONCE IS IT REFERRING TO SALVATION.
In each case the passage clearly says WHO is being predestinated and TO WHAT they are being predestinated to.
In all those passages ask your self WHO is being predestined and WHAT are they being predestined to?
*Not once is it an unbeliever.*
*Not once is it predestined to salvation.*
BELIEVERS are predestined to inherit salvation, to be justified and to be brought into glory.
EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST.
EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS
are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS:
EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY:
ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
but it still all hinges on salvation.
Cliff Cartwright Predestination hinges on being SAVED.
SAVED people are chosen to be Holy and blameless IN CHRIST, are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS, predestined to be to the praise of His glory and predestined to be conformed to His image
Aaron Pilkey Nonone can go to Jesus unless it is granted. No one in the flesh can please God. Is believing in Jesus pleasing to God? Yes. Man cannot do that in the flesh. You have to be born again with the Spirit to go to heaven. That is all God. Flesh is useless. 👉
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
And he said, “This is why I told you that 👉👉👉no one can come to me unless it is 👉granted👈 him by the Father.””
John 6:63, 65 ESV
Jesus makes this crystal clear 👉
“All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and 👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉no one knows the Father except the Son and 👉anyone to whom the Son 👉chooses 👈to reveal him.”
Matthew 11:27 ESV
Can’t get any clearer than that.
S Hopson You said: You have to be born again with the spirit to go to heaven.”
Reply: Yes exactly. No one here is arguing against that so not quite sure what lead you to post the obvious.
You said: “That is all of God.”
Reply: Again, I’m not quite sure why you’re making these obvious statements that I agree with.
Are you actually ignorant enough to think I don’t believe this?
You said: “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
Reply: Again, no one here is arguing against this so not quite sure what your point is.
S Hopson You quoted Matthew 11:27.
Can I ask you why you willfully chose to leave out the very next verse?
Matthew 11:27
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Come unto me, 👉👉 all 👈👈ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Couldn’t be any more clear.
God has called EVERYONE.
YOU: Come unto me only those who I’ve secretly chosen
JESUS: Come unto me ALL who are weary and heavy laden.
Could t be more clear who Jesus chooses to reveal the Father to.
ANYONE who comes to Him! 👈👈👈
John 6:37
37 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; 👉👉👉 AND him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 👈👈👈
REVELATION 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And 👉WHOSOEVER WILL, 👈let him take the water of life 👉 FREELY.👈
Couldn’t be more clear.
My only question to you is do you prevent people from coming?
Revelation 22:17 says LET HIM COME. 👈👈
Do you let them come or do you put a tone of bondage ba I on their necks and tell them they can’t come unless they’ve been chosen?
Take of the water of life FREELY 👈
QUESTION: Do you put a price on it?
Do you put a price on this water of life that you have to be chosen in order to drink from?
This really moved me to tears thinking about God's sovereignty.
Sproul is a Western reformed theologian!
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
I think many confuse foreknowledge with predestination.
but wouldn't foreknowledge would mean that we are saved based on works not by God's grace through faith in Christ through election??
@@victoriat9145 what do you mean by that?
@@victoriat9145 The only work that saves us is Christ's work on the cross. While He had foreknowledge on who will be His, His grace still is shown to all when He knocks on the unbelievers heart.
Completely agree. We have free will, but in God's infinite knowledge and being (not limited or constrained by space or time), He knows how we will act before we do.
@@Anthony-vx6cs What do you mean by free will? Because if God creates with foreknowledge, how is that any different than predestination? He knew what would happen and He didn't change anything about it whilst creating; thus, everything that has ever happened and will happen was part of the plan in creation. If you mean we have ultimate, autonomous, freedom in our choices and have the capacity to choose God over ourselves, then I'm sorry but you believe in a works based religion which is heresy. No one will boast remember? But if we can of our own freewill choose God then there is righteousness found in us. Are we not dead in sins and trespasses? None choose God, NO NOT ONE. We're only free in the sense that we freely choose what we want, but what we want is never God. Only God can save, and He saves us by changing our hearts, changing our nature, and humbling us, and the way He does that is through His Word.
Jeff says at 6:18 that, "I think, personally, that the largest mass of humanity will be given grace." I've heard Jeff mention this before in another video, which escapes me at this time, but his statement causes me to think on Matthew 7:13 which, in my mind, seems to indicate an opposite position. I don't expect Jeff to see this comment and/or respond to it, but perhaps someone else who shares Jeff's opinion can help me to understand his point of view?
aceblade that’s a good point that verse, but I’ve always kinda agreed with him just because your faith being small will still be enough and the fact that you cannot lose your salvation so right there that’s a lot of grace God gives to us.
aceblade I realize you are looking for opinions that agree with Jeff's but this bothers me greatly, I actually cannot accept Jeff's opinion on Grace, the final judgement is God's perfect Justice and totally clashes with Jeff's warm and fuzzy hopes for a free pass, Jesus is the free pass that many will reject amen
Common grace is that you are alive now, while you should be in hell already. That is grace. More than that. God gives you many good things in life. That is underserved grace.
While God gives many people common grace, grace to salvation is given only to a random, only for few. Grace leading to salvation through faith. Saving Faith is God's grace. Faith is a gift. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
I got Mormons on my reddit post watching this video, yo!
@@gustavmahler1466 What's up?
@@gustavmahler1466 Why did you erase your last comment?
They're probably like.....uh.... And these guy's think we're strange?
Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
@@underwaves75 Hi Mike,I gave you a thumbs up,although I have not go through all the references you gave.I made a comment on a video from Leighton Flowers the thing that amazes me is how educated theologians struggle to interpret the scriptures which were written by simple fishermen and sheep herders,the video you posted just confirm what I was wondering about these clever scholars,the wise becoming foolish.
I appreciate your concern,but be glad that I do question these clever ones and do find a lot of falsety amongst them.I stopped belonging to a ''church'' for almost 7 years and just trust the Lord thru His Spirit for growth in Him and His word,God Bless.
@@chrisamandadeysel5117 The Bible is God’s word. Literally God breathed…
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Not just works of fisherman and shepherds as you said.
Why try to confuse people? The simplicity of salvation in Christ is Grace
I am new to this channel and have spent the last few days listening to several podcasts. Last night I listened to one in which, when speaking about the sovereignty of God and salvation, you said: “I believe it’s POSSIBLE for God to do anything He wants and... and save the world.” You went on to point out that God said He was going to do it, "which makes a fire-breathing post-millennialist." That really struck me, especially in light of what I thought your message was in other podcasts.
Today I was listing to the last of the 20 files I downloaded, sort of randomly, and heard you say: “The judgment coming of Christ happened exactly as the Lord Jesus said. So when John says, in the New Testament, in the book of Revelation, he’s coming soon, he’s coming quickly, brothers and sisters he MEANT it. And the glory that we have ahead of us , as Christians, is 1 Cor 15. He’s reigning now; he’s putting all his enemies under his feet; last enemy to be [defeated] is death. And that’s when Jesus returns - not to bring the kingdom. 1 Co 15 says, not to bring the kingdom but to deliver the kingdom over to the Father, after all things have been put into subjection to Jesus. Brothers and sisters, our future is glorious, and I want to say this: we have the great hope of Christ coming and resurrection, but when that comes, guess what? Guess what, y’all? It’s going to be in victory! In TOTAL victory! With the world, nations, tribes, tongues, languages, EVERYBODY converted to Jesus, through His glorious gospel. It’s my belief, as a Calvinist, in the absolute sovereignty of God, that God has the POWER to save the world and I believe that he’s given us, too, the PROMISE that he’s gonna to do it.“
That really blew my mind!! In a GOOD way! :)
When I got home I tried to the find the video for the above on TH-cam, but was unable to locate it. I found this one, instead, in which you say: "“I actually, personally, believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God’s grace at the end of time. That’s my personal position on that. That’s not universalism. I’m saying, in terms of the future, I believe the kingdom of God will have victory over the world and I think, personally, that the largest mass of humanity will be actually given grace….” To which I say AMEN! [Though I wish you would go further.... all the way, if you will. :) ]
While you step away from "universalism" in this quote (and I had not seen it in any of the other messages I heard, prior to last night), I, too, am wondering if you will elaborate and why you would acknowledge that scripture does declare Jesus the Savior of "the world," but believe that such is only a "possibility," (though it seems you are saying it is more than that in the second quote above). Have your views changed? Will you elaborate? If it is, indeed, "a matter of mercy," did not Paul say: "God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL." (Rom 11:32)?
As to the subject of Esau and Jacob, have you considered the possibility that Esau and Jacob, like so many other figures in scripture, serve as "types" and that is the reason why "It is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated"? Is it possible that "the vessel of wrath, fitted to destruction" is the first/natural/carnal man and "the vessel of mercy" is the second/spiritual man; that these things (wheat/tares, sheep/goats) are meant to show a division between the old/outward man and the new/inward man and not a division between one man and the next (though we may certainly manifest as either depending on whether we walk in the flesh or in the spirit)?
Throughout the OT we see the same pattern repeated over and over in various ways, going all the way back to Adam (the first/natural man), who was 'a figure of him who was to come" (the Second/Spiritual/Last man, the Son of God). it is always the older who serves the young or the second/later born who gets the the blessing of the first born. Why?
I believe in the sovereignty of God, as well; and I believe Jesus is who the scriptures declare him to be, the Saviour of the world. Even if you only see the possibility, I am really enjoying all of the podcasts I have listened to so far and am thinking about becoming a financial supporter, despite our differences, due to your outreach to Mormons. (I am ex-Mormon.)
universalism is absolutely unbiblical, I can see how people end up there (as I did for a while) but the fact is that many places talk about a place of punishment for unrepentant people. There is a reason the historical church, even back to the earliest times didn't believe it. Why even spread the gospel at all if there is universalism? jesus and the early church had an urgency about spreading their message.
@@Xenotypic Christian Universalism doesn't deny punishment. It only denies eternal conscious torment which serves no redemptive purpose at all, but is only retributive in the worst possible way. As to spreading the gospel, are you suggesting that their urgency to spread the gospel (do you have an example of that?) is to make sure that as many as possible get saved before they die and go to hell? I don't think "salvation" is the goal, for that was taken care of at the cross. It is "the gospel of [our] salvation that we being asked to "believe." Because the result of "believing" it is what?
@@Xenotypic What made you change your mind?
@@Chrissiela I know it doesn't deny punishment entirely, just to put that out there. long story short, the evidence appears to be for annihilationism.
after going through all the verses about hell, seeing how they were said and in what context, the evidence seemed to me to be in the annihilationism camp. you get your just deserts of punishment and then are destroyed at the second death. the verses which say Christ came to save "all" i interpret to mean that his blood is sufficient for all, but not all will come, as much as God may want that. Every knee bowing and tongue confessing could easily be people who have to admit to something when considering it's right in front of their face/is already too late for them. it all works out, you can be in hell for an "aeon", get rightly punished, then after your perfect judgement your existence will be over at the second death. to me, it was a pretty satisfying conclusion since it appears to fit so nicely.
tellling the gospel is at the very least *less urgent* under universalism. most of the historical church, even in the 1st couple centuries didn't have this understanding (Origen being a poooossible exception)
@@Xenotypic I don’t think the gospel is about people getting “their just deserts.” Just the opposite, in fact. It’s all about grace, about how where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. The “justice” of God is all about making things right. It’s about righteousness, particularly the righteousness of Jesus Christ, whose body we are. And while most believe that only believers are a part of the body of Christ, I believe the Bible says otherwise. I believe it says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. He did that by “gathering together in one all things in Christ.” That includes all men, both good and bad, just as we see in the parable of the wedding feist. Jesus said he came to not to judge the world but to save the world. And he did. All of it. Some (not all), especially those in the Universalist camp, believe that means that there is no judgment. Jesus came only to save. Period. But that is not what he was saying. He talks about judgment, too. And judgement comes AFTER salvation. This is put into our remembrance in Jude 1:5. “I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.” Now, one could certainly argue that this is one way to recognize that Jesus actually IS “the Saviour of ALL MEN,” and he actually ACCOMPLISHED that, even if NOT “all men” survive judgment. But I do not think that is the case either. I think what is getting “separated” (or divided) in “the judgment” (the sheep from the goats, the tares from the wheat) is not one person from another the old man and the new man, that which is born of the flesh from that which is born of the spirit. Now, we can certainly be recognized, individually, as a tare or a goat, etc, as it relates to our “walk” (whether we are walking in the spirit, as sons of God, or walking the flesh, having the devil as our father), but it is “the spirit” that is “saved in the day of the Lord,” for “God is the father of spirts.” God is not trying to save the old man. That man is to be reckoned dead already. So while annihilation does sound much more humane than eternal conscious torment, it’s not what I believe the scriptures teach. I believe that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father, because they mean it. For no man can even make such a confession except “by the Holy Spirit.” Scripture even tells us that “if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, for he cannot deny himself.” (2Ti 2:23) He cannot (and will not) deny his own body, his own flesh and blood, so to speak… which is “the church,” even His “Bride.” The difference between those who believe and those who do not is "salvation" but “eternal life.” We treat “eternal life” as if it is a synonym for “immortality,” and has nothing to do with those is this world, only the world to come, as it relates to those who have been saved. But that is not how the scriptures define “eternal life,” which is that life that is “in the Son.” And who are “the sons of God”? Jesus said: “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” Eternal life is “to know God and Jesus Christ” now, to be “as He is in this world.” That is the benefit of believing the gospel. It might be easy to question or downplay the significance of that, thinking “is that all?” But I think that can only be said by someone who hasn’t really yet met “the Son of God” or really yet understood who THEY ARE “in Christ.” (Origen is far from being the only early church father who believe in the apokatastases. You might want to do a little bit more research on that, if that is what you think. I can offer some resources, if you like.)
How can you be sure God predetermined you for heaven on your deathbed? This does not seem like something worth believing if one's salvation or damnation is already written out for them and they have no way of knowing what was chosen for them rather than teaching that salvation is a gift to all who believe and follow Christ? Why would we even need Jesus if we are already predetermined to our eternal destination after death?
8:30 I think the mistake people make is thinking this is being as Job puts it "a respecter of God's person" acting as though God could be unrighteous and still be entitled to be called rightous. That instead of being good, all good and nothing other than good that God is "beyond good and evil" under no standards of rightousness imposed on him by himself. Such as would reply to Abraham when he said "shall not the judge of all the Earth do right?" With "he has every right to be as unrighteous as he pleases, who are you to hold him to obligation?"
Our free will is limited in many ways. None of us chose our our parents, their religion or lack thereof, our nationality, our physical and mental health, M or F, etc. etc. etc., all of which affect our decisions including the most important one. Joseph didn't choose the events that led to his becoming second in command in Egypt. Jonah's travel plans were altered. And so on.
With God's it's different: "My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish _all_ my purpose" (Isaiah 46:10). God wants everyone to be saved and go to heaven, BTW (Luke 19:10, John 17:2, 1 Timothy 2:3-6).
God is all-wise. Like a chess master who plays against a novice, He doesn’t force any of the novice's moves, but He always wins. It will usually take longer than a lifetime, but God will search for the hundredth (lost) sheep UNTIL he finds it. Here's who God chooses:
" *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. … From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a).
"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, *but because of him who subjected it,* in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:20-21).
---------------
Also see John 12:32, Rom. 5:18-19, 8:19-21, 11:32,36, 14:11, 1 Cor. 15:22,28, Eph. 1:10, Phil. 2:10-11, 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 5:13, 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14-15,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, 65:2-3, 145:10a, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, 57:16, Lam. 3:22,31, Ezek. 16:53,55, Mal. 3:2-3, The Total Victory of Christ videos.
“Before they did good or evil, God predestined them” and “they are condemned for their own evil. God is just.” In other words, God created no man with the possibility to be saved by his own goodness (because we are born into sin), and then ‘justly’ condemns some of them for that which they can’t help but do by nature, without any possibility of redemption, and that before they even do one evil deed. This is what I heard you all say. Am I wrong?
@Paul Heberling Romans 9 is about individual election.
@@reformedchristian7751 I don't agree to your statement that says "Romans 9 is about individual election". Please read Romans 9 in its context before you jump to your illogical conclusion.
@@reformedchristian7751 I would encourage to see what Frank Turek advises on romans 9. Follows the view that it’s about the nation of Israel. Not individuals
No. God DID create a man with the possibility to be righteous on his own. The first was Adam... he failed... the second was Christ and he succeeded. The rest of us are in the middle faced with the brutal reality of having fallen by predestiantion under the heritage of one of the two. And that is just.
Completely out of context. You are applying a passage that doesn't refer to individual salvation to the topic of individual salvation.
BLATANT contradiction between 0:58 and 1:11. If God predestined every event in history, which you affirm Jeff, then peoples choices are included in that, as they are also events. You can’t have one without the other.
They are not contradictory.
Randy Couture so if you choose not to have Jesus as savor, did you choose not to go to heaven or was it predestined?
@@choicemeatrandy6572 only the unregenerate sinners are robotic.
God uses people who reject Him to carry out acts of evil that He works for good. If Joseph's brothers chose not to sell him, God would have worked it out by the hand of someone who wants to be evil. We do indeed have free will yet God has predestined all events and will find a willful sinner such as pharaoh through whom he can bring about ultimate good.
Edit: just the same, for example, if God has planned for the gospel to be shared with... "Ted" He wont force anyone to do it, but will find a willing servant.
@@3deanes958 u have creaturly will which chooses according to its nature
I think if Jeff is gonna say that the majority will receive God's grace he ought to back it up with scripture. The Bible says many are called, few are chosen. It also says that few find life, many find destruction. So I am not sure where Jeff gets this belief from. Would love to hear him expand upon this belief of his.
I agree, so much for Jeff's personal beliefs
John 3:16
@Damien Tahbaz
He gets it from his (wrong) postmil postition where they believe that all will be getting better (wasn't since the apostles) and eventually there will be overwhelming Christian majority ruling over the world and Christ will come then... It amazes me, how many greatly educated amazing brothers in Christ believe this eschatology. Maybe that education and tradition is the problem. Anyway, that's where he is getting it from. They make very complicated connections in the Scriptures to get to that idea.
I'm with you there, DAMIEN!
That sounds like "Quasi-Universalism" to me! Unfortunately, I'm back with Pastors MacArthur, Sproul, & Steven Lawson.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
Amen 😇
13:40
Anyone who argues reformed theology has to misrepresent it. I've never heard an argument that accurately represents it. Dr. Michael brown probably is the closest to wanting to accurately represent it.
Moreover dr brown and dr white are great friends and alot of the comments are vicious in this comment section. No wonder so many unbelievers pount at christians and say if you act like that i don't want your God. Its a shame really. Not you ofcourse. I just wanted to point out the viciousness in the comment section
@@repentorperish1386 good points my friend.
So much for John 3:16 .... & what about those who simply don't know any better when they reject God? No purpose in addressing Universal salvation?? 🕊🏝☀🌱
John 3:16 says the son was sent so that that the believing one would be saved, not the world. Anyone who dies in their sins will receive their wage.
I have believed in God my entire life! I remember being 3 yo old, and not allowing anyone to sit next to me, bc Jesus was beside me. Back in the late 70’s early 80’s, my sister’s friends had to sit on each other’s lap bc Jesus had to have a seat first. I chuckle at that quite often, bc it truly is child-like. Since I was so young, and for 47 years (44 that I can remember,) I’ve always known God being my creator. So, is it possible to be that young, and already believe wholeheartedly, that God is my creator? There’s no way, unless God had revealed Himself to me, that I wasn’t specifically chosen. I was chosen to be a Believer, from day one?
I’m probably not explaining it correctly, but are ppl chosen, before even grasping who God is? He had to have revealed Himself to me, but yet I still had a choice? It’s so hard to wrap my head around, bc God knew what I’d choose millennia’s ago. But I still had a choice. 🤷🏻♀️
Think about it like this:
There’s a piece of paper with a boy inside of a building, and then there’s a car going 100 mph heading straight toward the wall the boy is sitting closest to…
You as a “Being” outside of this paper realm can see both the boy and the car driver without either of their knowledge, and you can see what’s about to occur before the boy can… in fact, you’re outside of their time, space, and matter completely- you’re of a higher dimension entirely… this is how God is to us.
Thus, while God is all knowing and can see all things it’s less about predestination and more about leaving the page to “write” itself in a way.
Hopefully this helps.
@@Ej2SavageNot exactly… Scripture says that God is active in authoring history; He even wields Assyria like an axe against Judah in Isaiah 10.
He is not a passive, looking-down-the-corridors-of-time God… He is the author and sustainer of all things.
@@CameronSzwed I agree, he definitely isn’t just a spectator, but he’s also not always preforming “an act of God” either… somewhere in the middle more than likely
We become the chosen when we choose Him.
@@BravyM9 I love this!!! 🥰🥰🥰♥️
“not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” - 2 Peter 3:9b. we have free will. God doesn’t want us to go to hell, he doesn’t create some people for hell, people who go to hell choose it. That’s why it says “come” to repentance. It’s a choice.
Right on. 👍
Facts
You have to read it in context…who is this message speaking to? Not just everyone.
If God is not willing that any should perish, how come most persons of the world are doing just that? Peter here is speaking to believers! That's the context, that God is not willing that a Christian should go to hell. Fairly consistent, don't you think?
acts 13;48
The doctrine of eleccion makes us humble , understanding that we're not elected by anything we can do, just because God wants, and that doesn't make us better, thank you Lord.
Amen!
Jeff Durbin says the Bible teaches that every event in the history of mankind is predestined. Where does it teach such a thing?
It doesn't. They say it matter afactly so that you don't ask questions. If you do, they get defensive, which is the first clue they know it's not accurate.
Can someone tell me then WHY many are called FEW are chosen??? How then will MOST of us be saved by grace???
Many people hear the call of God which comes through His revelation of Himself through two things the creation and the conscience within us. But only the "few" will respond because they are the ones who are truly hearing.
Really like Pastor Jeff’s teaching, seems biblical, but Rev. 20 “Satan’s army as the sands of they sea”, speaks to the greater number going into death. There being vastly more headed for destruction than there are saints entering the kingdom during Christ’s reign is completely biblical.
6:05 how does this relate to Jesus saying in Matt. 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
or Romans 9:27 "only a remnant will be saved"
Even worse, worse in the sense of amazing is lately I came across some comments which mentioned a certain 'christian denomination' called something like tentmakers. They believe that all humanity will be saved.
They sound like ' good kind hearted christian in action people' but their doctrine is anything but Christian because essentially it negates the atonement of Jesus Christ. I was amazed , I mean yes so many denominations and religions but it was the first time I had heard of such a ludicrous belief.
It makes me more convinced that denominations are not Christ appointed because they only bring division.
The Apostle Paul made it very clear in Corinthians that we must belong to Jesus Christ and no other 1 Cor 1 : 9-13
Unfortunately it clearly doesnt. This video shows why we shouldn't insert our beliefs. Durbin use to be such a man of God, I pray he turns back
woah... easy my friend, just because his Theology is a bit off here, doesnt mean he turned from God... its such a secondary (prolly further out) issue from the Salvation conversation
Narrow is the gate is a statement as to how one is saved, not how many. Salvation is by Christ alone ! One can have a large flock of sheep yet have a single gate that they pass through.
So when the Mormon says that God is wrong for sending certain people to hell then is it possible for that Mormon when he gets to be a god himself one day will create a world to his own liking? Especially is the God of the bible was once a man and he was able to get to exalted status like the god before him. Why do Mormons care what this certain god does with his creation when they can just come up with their own. I hope that made sense because even typing it I was confusing myself.
it does make sense. as a christian, i wonder the same thing. if there are any LDS member who’d like to answer this, PLEASE be our guest!! 😇
Jesus talks about his sheep hearing his voice. I hear your voice Lord! Hallelujah!
The line about giving most people grace is why I leaned SDA partially a bit. I'm moving Reformed swiftly. I had already listened to Apologia and Voddie before. Listening to a lot of Voddie started moving me back.
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
Thank you guys for this vid, needs to be much longer! Pastor John Macarthur, Steve Lawson have very good sermons teaching on predestination, too. Also, Willmington's Guide to the Bible has an entire study guide that is full of sound scripture teaching.
Hey guys, just letting you know, Kwaku suffers from the affliction of emasculation and therefore is unable to think critically. He rather, is only able to emote.
I am a pastor here in Provo and have had Kwaku attend a couple of our bible studies, 2 Thess. I believe, and could have told you before the conversation you had with him, that he is not interested in or capable of truth as he does not have a love for the truth. We do pray for him and others like him continuously!
@Rudy Rodriguez I will pray for Kwaku as well. It grieves my heart to see a young lad at only 22 years of age to believe such lies and trying to spread it as if it's true- is such a scary stumbling block for others who really want to seek God. One must fear while seeking and love correction for obtaining the truth of our one true Lord.
Woah! Like literal emasculation or figurative? Kwaku certainly is a character of one who purposely misrepresents truth because he's of the world.
Also, I have a Mormon cousin who lives in Provo. I doubt you know him.
Please explain how saying he is emasculated helps to move forward this debate. It seems to have the appearance of name calling.
Rudy,
Who is kwaku? Sorry I am
new in this site....
Totally agree!
I'm really glad you guys weren't my first introduction to Christianity. Double predestination is nonsense.
As a Calvinist, I fully agree. Double predestination is nonsense. Fortunately, Calvinism doesn't entail it, and only a small minority actually believe it.
@@oracleoftroy From the Institute's "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death". That's double predestination, Calvin himself was at least being consistent. If God chooses some for eternal life and just leaves everyone else alone (which is what modern-day Calvinists say to avoid double predestination) that still implies double predestination. You can't be a 5 point Calvinist and not, at least implicitly, believe in double predestination.
@@oracleoftroywhat is double predestination?
@@user-yd3uh4pz5e Well, there are two versions, the version the reformed confessions teach and the version anti-calvinists push.
In Reformed theology, predestination has to do with those God saves. Mankind has fallen and is condemned for their sin. Out of these, God predestines some to eternal life. That's it. Note that this isn't dealing with innocent or morally neutral people, but sinners who fully deserve condemnation for their willful sin.
Now, people talk about "single" and "double" predestination. Single leaves open the question of whether God will come around to those he passed over at some other time and bring salvation to them, whereas double predestination says that in passing over them and leaving them in their sin, their final destination is assured.
The other view is more properly called "equal ultimacy". It holds that man isn't a sinner, but is morally innocent. Then mean ol' God comes down and arbitrarily declares that one person will be a sinner and condemned and another person will be saved. It is a strawman of the Reformed position that disregards the agency of man in their sinfulness and tries to shift the blame onto God.
@@user-yd3uh4pz5e Well, there are two versions of double predestination, the version most anti-Calvinists are against, and the version Reformed Christians actually hold to.
First we should answer: what is predestination? In Reformed theology, predestination is God looking at fallen sinful man and choosing to bring eternal life to some and passes over the rest, leaving them in their sin. That's it. Note that man is already sinful and condemned, so it is purely about an act of mercy on God's part.
Within this, there are two versions worth mentioning, "single" and "double" predestination. The question is about what happens to those God passes over. In single predestination, it is left open whether God may come back to some of them and bring them to salvation at some other time. In double predestination, in passing over those people, they will heap more condemnation on themselves through their sin and their judgement is certain. In both, condemnation is because of their own willful sin against God and not anything God makes them do.
The other view is properly called "equal ultimacy", and it is the view most anti-Calvinists incorrectly call "double predestination". In this view, man is morally neutral or innocent until God comes around and starts making people into sinners, predestining them to hell in the same way he predestines others to life. It tries to minimize the individual agency, and thus blame, for sin on the part of the condemned and paint man as the victim of God's whims. The problem is you won't find this view in any of the historic Reformed confessions or taught by any respected Reformed theologian.
I hold to double predestination as taught in the Reformed Confessions and I reject "double predestination" as most anti-Calvinists define it.
I replied earlier, but I don't see my post now... Sorry if there ends up being a double post.
Does anyone know where to go to hear Jeff talk more about his belief he mentioned at 6:00 ? "...and I actually personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God's grace at the end of time. That's my personal position on that. That's not universalism..."
I was bothered by Jeff's personal belief and position that the vast majority of humanity will receive Grace, because my King and savior says the gate is narrow, few will enter the kingdom of heaven. As always, I will stick with the teachings of Jesus
This comment took me back too....
Y do anything to be saved if it’s all God’s doing in terms of he is the one who decides if u have salvation or not? Then people can say I’m saved and always saved randomly vs I never will be saved even if I want to be. It’s an unbiblical doctrine
Killing it you guys. Please keep up the good work. We need more solid teaching out there that has a modern feel like this. I'll sit and listen to Dr. White all day every day but I know as soon as I share his video people will tune out bc of the vibe. (No hate dr. White. You have been a huge teacher to me) You guys are young and have a dope looking studio. And have killer exegesis!
Did you hear Flame (Christian rapper) has shifted from a reformed calvinist to Lutheran? He has a video of him discussing bible verses from the Lutheran perspective and the shift from Calvinism with Jordan B Cooper.
Honestly, they make reasonable assertions and I think a dialogue between y’all would be fantastic and super helpful!
PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰
God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the
W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎
THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE.
In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed)
Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23
Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience)
v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8
v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU.
I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE.
Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the
W🌎RLD.
(Goats are on the left)
John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS.
6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN.
What does PRE-DESTINATED mean?
Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began,
Destination means where you end up after time is over.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD:
5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh)
BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU.
The Cross, Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,,
Who will never chosen to be saved.
God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name:
13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL.
John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.
John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT.
4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME:
John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Speaking of Judas Iscariot.
John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,,
15:19
19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE
W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM.
JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD.
John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me,
John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are.
John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE.
Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC
Must I go on.
God knows the future (Foreknowledge), *and who's gonna "surrender" to His Will* (Predestined them BASED ON His Foreknowledge), and Chooses them (the Elect) to Accomplish HIS PURPOSES... {which most believers don't know what that is or ignore it}
So there is no free will, and therefore Yahweh is a liar.
2 questions:
1. Did God create, then “look through the corridors of time” (to borrow a popular phrase) to gain His foreknowledge?
2. If God knows what I will do tomorrow, can I do anything other than what He already knows? (I’m assuming you believe he has perfect foreknowledge)
@@anomilumiimulimona2924 that was dumb.
He knows what your "Free Will" choices will be before you're created.. (he still LET'S you carry them out) so HE bases His Giftings & Purposes off That. (Foreknowledge)
Except Romans 3:10-17 shows that NO ONE seeks for God in an unregenerated state.
@@douglasmcnay644 You have to understand the Bible first before you misquote it..!
Paul's simply using those quotes from Eccl&Psalms to prove to the Jews That NO ONE is Righteous under the Law, and cannot be JUSTIFIED by it.
I love Jeff Durbin and his ministry. I have a lot of time for you folks. Not a Calvinist though! I guess we'll meet in the next life and laugh about this!
If god predestined it.
Jeff, you really confused me with this video... I sought out how my Church understands this subject though, and found that you do not have the whole picture. Please check out "Lawrence Feingold on Freedom of the Will called to communion." Search it on google and click the first link. It's about an hour and a half including the lecture and Q/A, but it perfectly summarizes the Catholic Church's teachings on this matter of free will and foreknowledge.
@@busybody1474, correction jeff is a calvinist.
Is it incorrect to say that _knowing_ the end from the beginning is different than _dictating_ the beginning, the end, and every little thing that happens in between? How is it possible to have free-will if God _determines_ everything? (Am I using the words wrong?) Does God give this mercy and grace arbitrarily? _Ugh! Such a difficult and confusing topic!_
God revealed to me that "All Knowing" means that he knows the beginning and end of every possible outcome of your life and all of existence He is eternal and outside of time we are inside therefore linear so it's impossible to grasp God's perspective from eternity but we can understand it using his wisdom
We do have free will, but our will is in bondage to our nature. A lion has free will. I can offer him a salad; he is free to choose to eat the salad, but a lion will never choose to eat a salad because it goes against his nature. A lion's nature di tates him to eat meat.
@@johannastromberg514 Exactly... You are not a slave to your nature unless you choose to be. God can free you from the bondage of your nature if you freely chose him. A Lion can never deny it's nature because it has no free will and doesn't posses the knowledge of good and evil.
@@johannastromberg514 I don't agree to your notion that our will is in bondage to our nature. You gave a poor example by comparing animal's instinct with that of man's freewill. Does the lion has free will as suggested by you? certainly not,, as all animals are driven by their own instinct and that is why the lion won't be held culpable in whatever it does. Whereas man has a freewill and thus are held culpable by their actions.
Please explain to me how adam/eve with their sinless nature and yet choose to do evil. Thus as you claimed man acted according to their nature is evidently flawed as adam/eve didn't act according to their nature but they choose freely to sin out of their human pride.
Only God has a free will, He alone is perfect. No sinner has ever head a free will. You don't believe me, then why don't you use your free will and sin no more sense you claim you have a free will.
Keep it up, Apologia. I had an exchange with Kwaku over the issue of predestination; he eventually just seemed to admit that he didn’t like it and didn’t know what else to tell me. He couldn’t refute me over the predestination of all things but resorted to the basic misrepresentations he constantly portrays. His arrogance is saddening as is his smarminess. I wish he were honest but anyone who rejects the true God for a false religion when shown the truth must either ignore it or distort the argument because he doesn’t and can’t deal with what the Bible says and only the unregenerate would continue in such lies as he does about the doctrines of grace. God bless you guys and your ministry. Will be praying for you and for Kwaku as well.
Coinkydink Kid
Are you claiming that God ordained all things. Is that so?
Evan U yes...
Coinkydink Kid
Ps 81: 11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
What do you make of this?
Evan U God has a revealed will for Israel but He has His decree and He will work His decree together for good and to glorify Himself. Unless you want to argue that He can fail and be frustrated
Coinkydink Kid
I would argue for the bible being true and God being sincere.....
Deu 5: 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Jer 2: 9 Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.
Jer 26: 3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings
Eze 18: 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Mat 23: 37 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk 19: 41 ¶ And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Is Jesus weeping for the glory He didn’t receive from them??? No, He has a heart for all people.
Rom 11: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
1Tim 2: 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
God does show frustration and empathy. He desires all to be saved and weeps when they turn from Him.
This doesn’t mean He failed. Whosoever will come will receive His pardon. That’s how He designed it. His plan will not fail.
God bless
I agree we deserve Hell. That is Biblical. We are grateful for God's mercy and grace. He is good.
Hey Apologia Studios! I’ve never disagreed on any teachings that Jeff or any of the other pastors teach on, however, when Pastor Jeff says “I personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive Gods grace” I can’t help but to comment out of love and maybe I’m wrong and I have misunderstood something but the verse that comes to my mind in response to Pastor Jeffs comment is Mathew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
I pray that I didn’t misunderstand what Jeff was saying or misinterpret anything. #apologiastudios
You are correct in your understanding!
You’re correct. He is giving his opinion which is not biblical
Matthew 7:13-14 kind of refutes the idea that most of humanity will be saved. Just wanted to point that out, brother.
I see what you mean but Jeff also specifically said at the end of times he thinks the majority of earth will know god. Matthew 7 is referring to the entirety of human history, in which case the many will indeed take the wide and easy path. Even if the entire world comes to Jesus on the last day, percentage wises all of the people that came before us will still overwhelmingly not be saved sadly. I think Jeff takes the stance that he does from the verse that says all of Christ's enemies here on earth must be placed under his feet before his return.
As much as we try, we cannot divorce predestination from scripture. It's there. It can't be ignored. I never heard about such things until I read it for myself and the question kept coming up: "Does it really mean what it (the scripture) implies?" Yes it does. I think where people stumble and refuse to believe is because anything that is hard to understand or seemingly unfair, we throw it out or we dismiss it. We are fallible humans created by an infallible God. We don't know everything. If we did, we would be God and we're not. This is where faith comes into play. You read the Word and believe it 100% even if you don't understand why or how. It's also about being comfortable being a humble human being knowing that we don't know everything and that's ok. Our minds cannot comprehend all of God's way. Only a tiny sliver and only a tiny sliver when God presents it to us in HIS timing.
I'm perfectly fine with God choosing me. It's humbling. And by no means do I feel that I no longer have a responsibility to go out and preach the gospel. On the contrary, I feel MORE responsible because in my human thinking, if an all powerful awesome God called me, I better do the best I can with my time and gift He's given me.
How can love but force people to believe and others not to believe? That is a false view of God. God did not predestine certain to be saved but he predestined those who will be saved will be blessed and have salvation. Big difference. One is force the other is reward because of faith. All Glory to God. God bless. Repent and trust in Jesus
Hello fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. As much as I find most of the content on Apologia Studios to be Biblically sound, the teachings on Calvinism is where I break away and STRONGLY disagree on. I grew up under Calvinism--steeped in it up to my eyeballs. I am of the strongest conviction that it is a false teaching, and is even heretical. Apologia Studios, in this video, you reference Romans 9: 10-13 ("Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated): this is a common reference that I have heard out of many a Calvinist. My counter argument to that is the that the word for "hated" in this passage of Scripture is one of "preference"--meaning that God preferred and Sovereignly chose Jacob and not Esau, as the continuing successor of the promises He made to Abraham and Isaac. It does not actually mean that God hates Esau in the sense of a despising type of hatred. The same (idiomatic) form of “hate” is found in another passage of Scripture: in Luke 14:26 when Jesus says: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.” The idea of “hate” in this passage is one of preference, or loyalty. Jesus is not actually saying to hate your family members as we might think. Rather, He is saying that when a disciple of His has a choice to make in following Jesus and His teachings, (at the risk of being rejected by a family member), then a true disciple of His would be loyal to Him [Jesus] vs. their family member.
Next, the over-arching theme of the entire book of Romans is that of FAITH. Paul many times is addressing unbelieving Israelites, who think that by virtue of them being physical descendants of Abraham, that somehow they are automatically saved...as if they are somehow inherently “better” than other people groups and that they automatically and exclusively get God’s Grace and Favor no matter what. Paul’s point is to address and correct this wrong way of thinking by the unbelieving Jews. His point is that it does not matter if one is a Jew or Greek or Gentile, Salvation is by Faith, and not works of the law. In essence, Paul says that these unbelieving Jews do not have the right to question whom God chooses to save outside of the nation of Israel (As in Romans 9:30-33: “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”).
The example of Pharaoh in Romans 9:17 deserves to be cross referenced with the account given in Exodus: and in a nutshell, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart is a judicial hardening, not an arbitrary one...since Pharaoh himself hardened his heart towards God Almighty, God in turn completes the hardening in order to deliver Pharaoh over to destruction, so that God’s Power and Sovereignty would be on display. Hence, the idea of “vessels of wrath”, which follows in Romans 9: 22-24: Paul’s example here has to do with God’s PATIENCE towards the rebellious...or his longsuffering (as in verse 22) instead of immediate destruction. Those that make a final, deliberate decision to rail against God have sealed their judgment. And on the other hand, those who seek after God with humility and Faith, God uses as “vessels of Mercy” (verse 23), to demonstrate His Sovereign Glory and Goodness and Redemptive works in their lives. Paul reminds his audience that God says “I will have Mercy on whomever I will have mercy”...this reminder is to say to the Jew: it is up to God to grant His mercy/compassion on people who are not Israelites. I think Calvinistic theology just plain misses the mark on all the above points, and miss-appropriates Romans 9 as a whole.
Another argument that I make against Calvinism is that of Romans 8: 29-30: “For whom He FOREKNEW, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” The Greek word “foreknew” means just that-to know something ahead of time, before it even happens. God knows there will be many that reject Him. So, the ones that do make the choice to accept Him, those are the ones that He predestines to bring them to the point of Salvation. From my understanding, Calvinism takes this passage and says that it means God only predestines those whom He chooses to predestine, but that is not what the verse says at all. It clearly says that God FOREKNEW the ones that would choose Saving Faith. And in His foreknowledge, He continues the work of predestination to bring them to Salvation. The passage says NOTHING about God choosing some for Salvation, and then intentionally choosing others for damnation (destruction)...as is taught by John Calvin. Furthermore, when John 3:16 says: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life”, the “whosoever” means whosoever, not just a select few. I take that verse at face value: God made it possible for everyone to come to Saving Faith, but He gives people the free will to accept or reject Him. Also, 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” So if God does not have the desire that any should perish, why would He then intentionally save some, but not others? Just doesn’t add up. Much of Calvinism just does not comport with Scripture, or the Character of God.
And lastly, when it comes to Church history, I have always wondered why most Calvinists seem to focus exclusively on the Reformation period (out of which John Calvin came out of)??? I bring this up because if one were to study Church history in the 1st/2nd/3rd Centuries, one would see that the ideas John Calvin propagated in his lifetime were nothing new. For example, the early Church fathers record that there was a Gnostic school called the Valentinians, who taught (among many other heretical ideas) that some men were predestined to go to hell, had no free will, and had no chance of being saved. The early Church fathers countered that Gnostic teaching-- and taught instead that man had free will, no one is compelled to accept Salvation; but that Salvation is presented as a free gift to all men. They taught that NO ONE is PREDESTINED to go to hell. We have records of what the early Church fathers wrote and what they taught. Many of those records that we have came from Church fathers who were either direct disciples of the Apostles or were their successive disciples. I would challenge any self-proclaiming Calvinist to research Church doctrine of the early 1st-3rd centuries. Why stop at the Reformation? I understand that a lot of Church doctrine got corrupted by Roman Catholicism, but the doctrine of the 1st-3rd centuries is pretty rock solid. Bottom line: early Church doctrine taught AGAINST what the Valentinians taught, and later what John Calvin would re-teach during the Reformation era. Again, what Calvin taught wasn’t anything new, he just added a few extra ideas/concepts of his own to it. Based on Church history and based on what I read in my Bible, Calvinisim is a false doctrine. That is my strong conviction.
My humble understanding, and I admit I could be wrong, is that because God is omniscient, all powerful and works outside of time the issue of predestination is probably one that we can't grasp. I do, however, think the lines between predestined and foreknew can be blurry.
Romans 8:29-30 says, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters". My interpretation of this is that because God works outside of time, he already knew who will accept him and they were predestinated to be conformed to the image of God.
The verses of elect and potter/clay are similar, basically saying that time is not a thing to God and that he already knows everything, such as who will be saved and not saved. Again, could be wrong, but I just think our minds are so limited that these issues are not something we can fully comprehend.
@@ebbb365 In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said don't eat of it.
These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp You misunderstand Calvinism on a fundamental level. God either makes you do good. Or leaves you to the lusts of the flesh. Or for a believers case. Sin actually does the sinning if God does not always keep you. You still have two options, otherwise known as a choice. But God will either make you make the right one, or leave you to your flesh. Which will always make the wrong one.
@@Mike-qt7jphere we see God controling all the people he didn't want to believe, John 12:39-40 (KJV) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
@@Mike-qt7jphere we find the elect is all ordained to eternal life, Acts 13:48 (KJV) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
I have a question. I have been in Reformed or Presbyterian churches for over 20 years, the last 8 in a very Reformed Presbyterian church. I’m no stranger to the concept of God’s sovereignty in election. But I’ve never heard a minister say he believes the majority of humanity will find grace at the final judgement. This is news to me. I’m not sure that I’ve heard a minister clearly state a strong opinion about it one way or another until now. But the first thought that came to my mind when I heard Pastor Durban say that, was “What about the wide and the narrow path?”. Please be gracious if my confusion seems like a product of lazy Bible reading.
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
I can't help but think you were getting somewhere there in the middle at about 6:00 - 8:00.
The potter chooses the clay for His own use. Okay great. Then, sticking with the analogy, what does the clay have to do to be a recipient of such divine selection? Does the clay have to repent, have faith, possibly be baptized? Or, is it all just chance that some of the clay becomes vessels unto honor and the rest unto dishonor?
Maybe He just selects the best clay, not the yucky stuff that dried on the outside of the lump?
The elect do nothing to be elected. God, out of His grace and mercy, chooses to save those whom He has elected. The ability to believe (faith) is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9), and even repentance is a gift from God (2 Timothy 2:24-26). We can do none of those things apart from God's work in us. God does not make people saveable as some believe or imply. God actually accomplishes redemption for His elect. When He's determined to save someone, nothing and no one can stop Him, for no purpose of God's can be thwarted.
@@jacobgarcia4826 Thanks for the free pass! Next time Jeff Durbin tries to convert, or tell someone they're doing it wrong, believing wrong, etc... We just say it's not my doing, take it up with God.
@@jacobgarcia4826 If its out of grace and mercy to choose to elect someone, than what is God using when he chooses not to elect someone?
If a potter creates an idol its a sin, what is it when God intentionally makes a sinner?
@@pilotandy_com Such a strawman argument. Try again.
@@jacobgarcia4826 That's not a straw man argument at all. It's a vital question, one that addresses the nature of God Himself. If Calvinism is true, then the god of Calvinism creates billions of people with zero chance of ever changing their destiny from an eternity in the lake of fire. The false god of Calvinism is a monster, a hideous, bloodthirsty, demonic goblin who creates beings with no free will, falsely charges them with sin that he himself committed vicariously through them, and tortures them eternally for it.
I think the biggest thing between predestination and full freewill is that Christ is the same no matter what one believes. Why argue the small things when neither of them truly matters? Neither of them sends one to hell or heaven even more if we truly believe we go to heaven. We should stop arguing who is wrong and who is right and start loving one another as Christ loved us. We are the church and we should embrace each other as such.
Probably the best theologian of the past 100 years Reginald Garrigou Lagrange said he had to write a book on predestination because the topic was so difficult. Glad you guys have figured it all out in 10 minutes
In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said don't eat of it.
These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp yes, God did not command it as a part of the Mosaic Law, that is the context in which God is making this statement.
"Know therefore that God exacts from you less than your iniquity deserves" Job 11:6 THAT is mercy! And my favourite for God's sovereignty:
"For His dominion is an everlasting dominion. ALL the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven AND among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand or say to Him 'what have You done'?...now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, ALL of whose works are truth AND His ways justice. And those who walk in pride He is able to put down" Dan 4:34-37. Selah
Ian, that was one of Job's friends who we cannot establish biblical doctrine from their rants.
Hi Kitt. So, what about this one: Psalm 103:10 NASB
He has not dealt with us according to our sins, Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
@@injrdn01 agreed! I was speaking specifically about the passage in Job
10:40 as a Christian brother, Calvinist, please stop using this horrible argument. Man does not get glory or steal God's glory by simply repenting and believing. It makes Calvinists look foolish and blind when they make this argument
If everything happens according to God's will as per Calvinism, then a lot of really evil things happen, that God has called sin. This is ridiculous. God tells Adam and Eve, don't eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He has ordained that they will. Calvinism seems to be making God a liar, because He is telling them to not do something that He knows full well (according to Calvinism) that they have no choice but to do. We can go on and on; if God causes everything that happens, He is causing murder, rape, incest, drug use, drunkenness, lying stealing, sexual immorality, false religions, Satan worship, pedophilia, etc. The God of the Bible is love and calls us NOT to do all these things. Why would He turn around and make us do the very same things He tells us not to do? The Calvinist seems to sink on their own idea of the sovereignty of God. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY can choose to give us some degree of free will. That's why there are so many scriptures saying "Whosoever will, may..." Scripture clearly gives us a choice. Follow Christ or not. Repent or not. Obey scripture or not. I believe, based on scripture, that God has given us choices with eternal repercussions, Heaven or Hell. That's why Joshua said choose you this day whom you will serve. I can by God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit say, "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." By the way, yes, it is true; we can't come to Christ unless the Father draws us, but that says "draws us" not makes us a believer. God opens us up to the Good news and then we either say yes or no.
Telling people God predestined most of His creation for Hell is pretty sick.
It does tremendous damage to the Gospel Mission.
At issue is God's sovereignty. He's either sovereign over everything or He is not God by attribute.
We are in a fallen state, being saved is our choice. This is what predestination is.
@@Yuri_Jonker if its our choice to make. How is it predestined?
@@jeffcooper9363 The issue is a Calvinists undermining of God's sovereignty, thinking God must meticulously predetermine everything in order for His will to be done (as if man's will can trump God's will), whereas the God of the Bible is so much greater than that....He has created man with free will yet despite men making free choices (all terrible btw except the choice to receive Christ and have faith in God) His will is being done....that is a much more powerful and sovereign God.
We don’t know how many people have been predestined to hell, but God is free to save who he wants. Who are you to speak back to God?
Pastor Jeff, how did you come to the belief that the majority of humanity will be saved in the end? What about the narrow road that few will find?
Yeah I'm interested to hear if there's any biblical support for that. I'm not exactly sure what he meant but I want him to expand on that thought
Yeah I’d like for him to flesh that out
Jeff is breaking the second commandment by creating a false god, warm and fuzzy God who doesn't punish .. God is wrath as well as love and His justice is perfect, no one will be getting a free pass on their day of judgement , Jesus is the free pass and most will reject Him
busybody1 I’m not sure where you get a warm and fuzzy God from Calvinism. . . I agree there is a cheap grace gospel that is not biblical. But I have never heard that from Jeff or Apologia. That’s more word faith NAR.
@@busybody1474 I agree with what you're saying, but you are rushing to a hasty judgement there. You don't know that Jeff is assuming those things.
When are you guys coming to New Zealand Christchurch? I'd love to fly down and be there
Who wouldn't like to live in New Zealand? The only problem there...is...its too close to China.. who wishes to control everything.
Frank. New York is 6670 miles from Beijing and Auckland NZ is 6716 miles from Beijing.
Pastor jeff 1John 5:7 nkjv And there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Spirit and these three are one.
Godbless america.
The person asking the questions leans toward Mormonism. He also follows Leighton Flowers. This may help explain some of his presuppositions.
what is the meaning of that symbol on the wall middle of the big mic? and what is the meaning of "babies are murdered here" on the other wall?
They take that sign to abortion clinics.
The symbol is one of the oldest symbols of the trinity.
My view of presdestination is as such: God is sovereign and as such knows all and everything since before creation. He allows things to happen, good and bad, to His glory. Thank God He keeps His hands over all of us, or Satan would surely kill us all. That being said, He still gave us free will to make our own choices, good or bad, while always knowing what those choices would be. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
I agree mostly! God is sovereign, but its him who chooses us. Calvanist believe we have free will but not in choosing God because we are dead in our sins. So God is the one that draws and saves us, the only place I defer from calvinsm maybe is that that somehow out of our knowledge we are still responsible to respond to God when he calls us.
@@thomaskanke7922 you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth, as do the scheisters at Ligonier.
God does not decide who will accept Christ, period. He ATONED for us all. Whetter we accept Him or not is up to us.
Jeff, being a Calvinist, keeps more people in the lds church then he will ever know
@Bean team THE CULT OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS: THE MORMONS!
THE CULT OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS: THE MORMONS!
I regret to admit, but I believe this to be true......Calvinists sadly misrepresent the character of God
@@matts.6558 yeah, because we don’t pull our idea of the character of God DIRECTLY from the Bible or anything 🙄
@@Tre492 Actually, if you are a Calvinist you read your idea of God into the scripture....it's called eisegesis. Exegesis is where you get something from the text. Nowhere in the Bible does it say people are predestined to hell without there own doing....but feel free to provide some clear scriptures that prove this position....since if this is God's character there should be many many scriptures.
In 1st Samuel 23:12 ( David asks Yahweh (God) if the people of Keilah will turn him and his men over to King Saul...and if not Saul would destroy the city. Can and is there any reconciliation in the possibility that Gods fore knowledge of something real and possible does not necessitate pre-destination. I hope that I not too far off topic, and if I am, please know that I have a strong desire to have a correct understanding of The Scriptures in all areas as specifically as humanly and God given possible! Thank God for you guys and for what you all do for His Glory! in Jesus wonderful name
Great video and biblical exposition, why so many take issue with Gods sovereignty is beyond me. Big God little man, most of Christianity in the west preach and believe the opposite Big human little genie god.
He simply misses the point:
If God predestines people to go to hell BEFORE these people are even born they do NOT DESERVE hell the moment God makes his choice to throw them into hell. This is not matching with a God who IS love and does not want anyone to perish. It boils down to the question of Gods character. Of course God is sovereign to do whatever he wants to do. That is not the point. God is not restricted by ANYTHING outside of him. But he can not act against his own heart and character. God IS Love and he IS Holy without any conflict in himself. So Holiness is not an excuse for not expressing love and love is not an excuse for not being holy. Therefor predestination must meet BOTH.
God DOES NOT "throw people into hell." He gives people Grace whom every single one of them were going there anyways....
@@discjockeydoll9643 Still you didn´t get the argument. The question is to you as a Calvinist: When does God elect people for salvation and what is with these people he does not elect? Calvinism teaches that Gods election takes place before people are existing and that a human being can do nothing to be elected. So therefore logically some are predestined to hell by not being chosen for salvation before they even exist. That is the problem of Calvinism.
Well and who then is casting people to hell when we read this: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." ? (Rev. 20,15 KJV)
@@opfipip3711 The book of Romans addresses your argument. Romans 9:16: " It does not, therefore, depend on HUMAN DESIRE OR EFFORT, but on GOD'S MERCY." Romans 9:18: "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." And ESPECIALLY Romans 9:19 "One of you will say to me then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist HIS WILL?" BUT who are you , a human being to talk back to God?" Romans 8:29: " For those God FOREKNEW (meaning knew before) he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of his Son...." Ephesians 1:5: "In love he PREDESTINED us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with HIS PLEASURE AND WILL." Other scriptures that pertain to the elect include 2 Timothy 1:9, John 6:37, John 17:2-6, Jeremiah 1:5, Galatians 1:15, Roman's 9:10-16, John 6:44, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Roman's 12:3.... The word said it itself brother. Who are you a human being to talk back to God? It also says if Abraham were able to obtain his righteousness by works of the law, he would have a reason to boast in himself. If you think you play a part in even the SMALLEST FRACTION of your salvation, you in fact have a reason to boast in yourself, AND NOT in God. The word is very clear about this brother. I'm praying the holy spirit of the GOD OF THE GOSPEL opens your eyes to his true character. God bless you.
@@discjockeydoll9643 Look at the context. It is not about predestination of individuals for salvation. It is about the fact that salvation is coming to the gentiles. But Israel will be saved too at the end.
@@discjockeydoll9643 your dear sweet mother most likely is not among the elect, so she was destined for damnation in hell before she was even born, and you better be okay with that or you're a filthy hypocrite, argue my logic
@Jeff Could you do a segment on your eschatological views and why you think the vast majority of humanity is going to be shown grace?
Joshua Brunner Thank you. I think the Bible is clear that few find the narrow gate, not most.
B K I think we need to be careful in taking one passage, such as that, and using that to proof text what you are suggesting.
Contrasty, later in Matthew during the Last Supper, Jesus tells his disciples to drink of the cup, which is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Additionally, Paul talks about in Romans that through one man's (Jesus) obedience, many will be made righteousness.
Joshua Brunner So then you use another passage as your prooftext?
Joshua Brunner Actually, the Lutherans use that passage in Romans as a prooftext for objective justification, a sub-doctrine for universal atonement. So, I could point to another major denomination that birthed from the Reformation that would use that verse to deny limited atonement. Unless Jeff Durbin is an Amyraldian, he would deny universal atonement.
B K Universal Atonement not Limited Atonement 😢🤯 I'm soooo confused!!
What is he talking about God's mercy for when according to calvinism, people are predestinated to be hostile and rebellious, They are predestinated to not receive God's Mercy.
@Loonytoones85 and you say I'm lying? Does every single person have the chance to get saved yes or no? Being made into a reprobate mind is not the same as the lie of people being created to be hostile and rebellious. Stop following this false fleshly tradition man.
@@MP-yc2ou he does both God does both God does what he wants wants to do just like they said about the Potter that use that as an example okay God, does what he wants he does predestined some but some of these were already Destin to to not choose him okay and so they're getting what they want which means they hate God cuz the world is a whole hates God before he saves us don't you get that? I do so the ones that take God they're going to get what they want but you'll be hell they're never going to turn to him, but God has also that just God so he says for whosoever calls on him so he does draw men unto him that's the mystery of God is that he he will save those who actually turned to him and there will be a lot that will turn to him
@Loonytoones85 wow, the one who thinks he is smarter than everybody can't even read
@@nickjaramillo9688 no man, God doesnt create anybody to go to hell. God gives people up to a reprobate mind at the most. God is not willing for any man to perish but for all to come TO HIM. This is why He is longsuffering towards us. Forgot about that scripture? This is what I mean by yall domt rightly divide the Word with the Word and eith God's character/nature. EVERYBODY has the chance to get saved
MP D1: It is interesting that you accuse people of not being able to read, when you yourself demonstrate a failure to read and understand context. Let me explain it for you.
"But do not overlook this one fact, BELOVED, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward YOU, not wishing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance."
The words I have written in all-caps represent a group of people, it is the group of people that the apostle Peter is writing to. The "ANY" that The Lord does not wish to perish and the "ALL" that should reach repentance are the same group of people, the "BELOVED". You need to remember that Peter is writing to a group of believers, he is not writing an open letter to the entire human race.
So do you see now, how you have misread and misunderstood scripture? Do you see now how you have read your own interpretation into the scripture, rather than allowing the plain reading of the text to speak for itself?
Man is crowned with glory and honor. Romans 2:7 God gives eternal life to whom seek glory
6:05 can someone elaborate on this point???
"People are responsible for the sin in their own hearts." So God is not sovereign over the hearts of sinners?
Can you show a verse that says, men are NOT responsible for their own sin??
Are you saying God sovereignly decrees mans sin??
If man is not responsible for their sin, than God is? That's ignorance God can not do evil. Why did Jesus need to die? If we were destined for hell why did Jesus die? Yes we all deserve hell, however Jesus died for who so ever shall believe in Him.
As the story goes, this god deliberately hardened Pharaos heart so he would not let the Israelis go free, thus allowing him to show off some magic woo and ultimately murder a bunch of children. Seems nice... not!
@Friday’s are cool If you, say for argument sake, were a 80 year old man. Would you take the critique of a three year old as a malicious personal attack? If not, then why would me critiquing that train wreck of a compilation be taken as a personal attack by a being with a tad bit more understanding than an old man? If yes, I pity you.
If those texts indeed are the "word of god" then this supposedly almighty god thought of them as communicating exactly what it wanted. And the god described in the OT is an asshole.
If God predestined Pilate to crucify Jesus (see Acts 4) then he isn’t responsible for his actions? No. You’re just not thinking about this correctly at all. People are responsible for what they do, God doesn’t force them to sin.
Predestination is after you believe . To glorification.
You smart guys debate all you want. I know where I’m going when I die. My favorite author A.W. Tozer wrote this:
“God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, "0 Lord, Thou knowest." Those things belong to the deep and mysterious profound of God's omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints."
In The Forgotten Trinity James White uses a good analogy. He says that not studying theology is like saying "I love my wife" but never trying to learn anything about her.
@@bobbcanaan The flaw in that analogy is that unlike a human marriage (two flawed people) God has already made us PERFECT through Christ, so our knowledge of theology does not have any bearing in our walk with him. He already did the work, and to suggest otherwise is to downplay the power of what Jesus did, and take the focus from him and put it onto us.
The context of Romans 9 is NOT salvation. Paul taught the Doctrine of Justification in 3:21-5:11. The context of Romans 9 - 11 is God's Relationship with Israel. Paul is NOT saying that God chose Jacob for salvation but he is saying that God chose to keep the line of promise through Jacob and not Esau.
Romans 11:11-24 and John 15 give great light to this issue of salvation...(we can be grafted in and then broken (love the use of broken instead of cut, because it implies deception) off, but then also regrafted in)) our focus should be on our hearts not on things like predestination...btw His ways are higher than ours...somethings are remaining in mystery for greater purposes than our understanding. “Do not say, "I will repay evil"; wait for the Lord, and he will deliver you. Unequal weights are an abomination to the Lord, and false scales are not good. A man's steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way?”
Proverbs 20:22-24 ESV
Loonytoones85 very true, but in this context I mean heart as in a way to focusing on our own issues, like pride...not on trivial things.
Also in this context I am meaning to keep our hearts in line with scripture...but I figured that would go without being said...that’s why I included scripture and not my opinions.
It's Dash from the Incredibles!
I'm never going to unsee this now
First John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. But only those who believe are saved. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. What is the truth. The gospel, That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures. When we believe that gospel and know we can never be condemned again, John 3:18, We are given the seal of the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.
After we believe we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13. In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also AFTER ye believed, ye were sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise. Born again, born of God.
We are not given the Holy Spirit until we believe the gospel. Not before. Calvinism leads a lot of people to hell, believing they are chosen, but never do the will of His Father. John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that all that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
If Calvinism is true, then John 3:16 is not true. For God so loved the world, (everybody) that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, (anybody,) BELIEVETH in Him, should not perish but HAVE EVERASTING LIFE. Jesus said it, I believe it, and that settles it.
Calvinism says we have to persevere in the faith to stay saved. Works salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Salvation is a free gift from God to all who believe in Him plus nothing to be saved.
Faith is not a work. It takes no effort to believe the gospel that our sin debt is paid in full and we can never be condemned again. John 3:16. But, we have to be born again, born of God. Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30. Romans 8-9 Without the Spirit of God, there is no salvation. With the Spirit we have eternal life. What if we lose our faith? Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He can not deny Himself. His Holy Spirit that lives in the believer.
The one requirement for salvation is to repent, change your mind from trusting in what we do to save us, to trusting in what HE did to save us. Repent is the Greek word metanoia, or metanoeo. Meta means change, and noia means mind. IT means to change your mind from trusting in our works to save us, to trusting in Jesus finished work to save us.
Galatians 2:21 I do not void the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. We are saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith is not the gift, Eternal life is the gift when we believe. Romans 6:23.
I love hearing this brothers teaching, I don’t agree with him on eschatological matters, but he is still solid nonetheless.
David Shotwell
I still don’t understand what eschatology is. I’m new.
The Doctor it is the term for end times theology. In other words, how will this world end.
@@areyoutheregoditsmedave, Eschatology on line dictionary: the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
These three are ignorant and twist there word to make it fit there agenda. They flip flop when it gets serious.
....what is Jeff's eschatology?
Jeff, you mentioned that you believe that the majority of all people will be saved. I was just curious how you would harmonize that view with Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Thank you very much for your comments in advance. God bless you
Jeff Durbin, Can you answer this please? HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT GOD CREATED JACK FORM NOTHING(none-existing) and damn him to hell for eternal torture by not obeying Him? Thanks for any Calvinist who can answer me this question....
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC, I am sure that I am saved, but I asked that Question because I don't agree with with some of the beliefs of the Calvinist.... Can you answer that for me? I mistyped the word 'FORM', It should be 'FROM'...
"Calvinists are just insecure janitors" was his best argument honestly
lol
Exodus 22.22: Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
Exodus 22.23: If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
Exodus 22.24: And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
Deuteronomy 24.14: Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:
Proverbs 14.3: He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
Proverbs 17.5: Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: And he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 22.16: He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, And he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.
Proverbs 28.3: A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food.
Matthew 5.3: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5.4: Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5.5: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That's naughty. I used to be a janitor and I am insecure but I will stick with what the Bible says. It's all of God's grace, not anything of ourselves.
PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰
God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the
W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎
THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE.
In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed)
Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23
Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience)
v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8
v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU.
I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE.
Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the
W🌎RLD.
(Goats are on the left)
John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS.
6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN.
What does PRE-DESTINATED mean?
Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began,
Destination means where you end up after time is over.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD:
5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh)
BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU.
The Cross, Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,,
Who will never chosen to be saved.
God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name:
13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL.
John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.
John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT.
4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME:
John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Speaking of Judas Iscariot.
John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,,
15:19
19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE
W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM.
JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD.
John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me,
John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are.
John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE.
Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC
Must I go on.
@@aut0mat1c11PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰
God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the
W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎
THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE.
In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed)
Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23
Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience)
v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8
v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU.
I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE.
Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the
W🌎RLD.
(Goats are on the left)
John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS.
6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN.
What does PRE-DESTINATED mean?
Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began,
Destination means where you end up after time is over.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD:
5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh)
BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU.
The Cross, Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,,
Who will never chosen to be saved.
God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name:
13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL.
John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.
John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT.
4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME:
John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Speaking of Judas Iscariot.
John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,,
15:19
19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE
W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM.
JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD.
John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me,
John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are.
John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE.
Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC
Must I go on.
Kwaku stepping into a deep pile of shenanigans here. Before this stream of content devastating his credibility is over, he might just reconsider churning out ignorant content.
right I agree. But it is too bad a lot of us have already seen a bunch of his ignorant content and we know that this kwaku guy does not go by the word of God.
Isn’t this passage from Romans 9 a quote from the book of Malachi where in context we are talking about nations not individuals?
Ngdonut no I do not
Actually, he is referring to those already in heaven in that passage ! Check out "Lawrence Feingold on Freedom of the Will called to communion" (its not on TH-cam, you have to search and listen to the audio only unfortunately). to understand free will and all of this stuff jeff is talking about. He's great, but he is simply wrong on this...
Birefly :By quoting Malachi 1:2-3, Paul raised his discussion from the level of personal election to national election. Malachi was speaking of nations, as the context of this Malachi quotation shows. Paul's point was that God does not wait until He sees how individuals or nations develop, and what choices they make, before He elects them. God chose Jacob and the nation of Israel for reasons that lay within Himself, not because they merited election (cf. Deut 7:6-8).-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------More Depth :Predestination : 9:9 God did not choose to bless Isaac, after his birth, only because he was Abraham's son. Rather He promised Abraham, before Isaac's birth, that He would provide and bless a son for the patriarch supernaturally ("at this time"). His unusual birth confirmed God's choice of Isaac, as the channel of special blessing, to his parents. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The quote from Malachi : In replying to the people's charge, the Lord asked them if "Esau" was not "Jacob's brother." Yet God had "loved Jacob," the younger, and "hated Esau," the older. The evidence of God's hatred for Esau was that He had "made" the ("his [Esau's]) mountains" of Seir, the inheritance that God gave Esau and his descendants, a desolate "wilderness." Unstated is the fact that God had given Jacob a land flowing with milk and honey for his inheritance, which proved His love for that brother. God chose Jacob even though Rebekah bore Esau before Jacob. As in the case of Isaac, God made a choice between them before their birth. Their birth was also supernatural since their mother was barren. i.e God predestined and manifested the entirety of the events, election, and blessings undeserved by merit or character. ( Since one can argue that Esau was more admirable than his brother - further illustrating Gods Predestined Election is not based on who we are or our faithfulness to Him, but His faithfulness to us.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To Romans - The Mystery of Election. God chooses who will believe and undeservingly be saved in site of their sin. God thus decides who will rebel and deservingly be lost because of their sin.
Genesis 25:23
As a believer who follows more the doctrine of Arminianism, I believe the Bible teaches suffering is a necessary for as many as possible of their own free will to embrace the doctrine of forgiveness made available only by Christ’s sacrifice.
I just want to say why is everything here if stuff was not predesigned/predestined?
I love you fellers but y’all got a comment section that truly works on my sanctification
Mr. Durban, I watch way more of your videos on TH-cam , than an individual probably should, I had begun to appreciate your efforts. This video, however, begins in a way that is well beneath where a man of God should be. Be very careful when you cast the aspersions you do. Calling others liars, insinuating that they lack integrity in the way they present what others believe, when that just isn’t so, is itself something other than truthful. Jeff, I have to believe you yourself are aware of what you are doing. As a Reformed Christian you certainly are aware of the fact that from the times of the life of Calvin himself, MOST of our brother Christians have expressed Calvin’s view of the scriptures EXACTLY the way Kwaku does. He is not lying , nor misrepresenting, nor lacking integrity when he challenges the very hard to defend Calvinist concept of free will. Free will confined by a sin nature imposed upon all mankind from birth, in a universe where God is in charge of everything in every moment, isn’t free will at all, I am sure your view of free will isn’t any different than what the noted atheist Sam Harris teaches. The fact that you think you can make that equation work, is something you should be proud of. If you are truthful, however, don’t pretend that, the semantic gymnastics you are performing is anywhere NEAR, the Christian theology taught, believed and espoused by the vast majority of Christians alive today or who have ever lived.
Amen! I wish he would just explain in simple terms what Calvinism says. If Kwaku is really presenting a strawman, then Jeff should explain what the real position is so that we can all benefit from that. By just insulting the opposition, I have no idea if the strawman accusation has any merit. And even if it does have merit, I have no way to avoid making the same mistake until I know what the mistake is.
@@BuildingApologetics Reformed theists, take a narrow, minority, view of who God is, and how He interacts with each of us. They know this to be true, yet insist what they believe is CLEARLY expressed in scripture. That is, in itself, more than a bit disingenuous. If the reformed position is worthy of consideration, it must be so, in the space in which it truly exists, a marginal Christian view, not held by the vast majority of faithful believers throughout the entire history of the Church. Good men, great Christians, in all ages have rejected the views held by Calvin. Rejection of the semantic gymnastics used by Mr. Durban here, does not stem from a position of untruth, but from a conceptualization of a loving God, expressed in the life of Jesus Christ. Kwaku makes the mistake of trying to define his belief in that God, against men who rely on, now, centuries of Calvinists rewriting the very definitions of Christian terms themselves. If Mormons can be said to use the same words as Christians, yet define those words differently, then the same must be true of reformed theists; there is no way around that determination. In the context of deviation from the mainstream, and supposed teaching of an alternate version of Christianity (the nature of the Father and the Son, salvation, the atonement, etc.), reformed Christians, then, represent an aberration of the “true” gospel message themselves. I would take the inclusive, universal atonement ideals of the Mormons any day over the exclusive arrogance of Calvinism. Calvinists espouse humility, by denying they have any part in their salvation. But truly it is ultimate arrogance to believe they alone truly understand the Bible while considering they themselves elected to a club that excludes the vast majority of the children of God. Simply put, if a belief in salvation offered through the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, can ONLY come to depraved men, through the irresistible effect of unconditional election, then everyone who knows Jesus Christ is their Savior, no matter how they believe that to be true, or what they (with the limited mind their electing Creator gave them) understand the Son’s nature to be, are the elect. That includes Kwaku... I have heard this understanding expressed by R.C. Sproul himself. Even Mr. Durban will express (from time-to-time) his personal view that the Grace of God will be extended to the masses of mankind at some point. From what I understand of Christianity, a man only brings condemnation on himself, by bearing false witness of others. We must avoid doing that at all costs.
@@markcampbell8068you sir are lost. You'd take momonism over calvinism? All these well articulated words mean nothing when you hold the true ignorance friend. Predestination is biblical. Nothing taught by reformed theologist is false. The catholic church fell into falsehood and the reformers through the grace of God REFORMED from the error of their way.
@@markcampbell8068explain where in scripture it says salvation will be brought to the masses eventually? It's a few, a remnant of CHOSEN people. It's a hard pill to swallow for some, but hearing in the spirit is different than hearing in the ear.
@@andrewcoffman3600 If I were to believe in the Calvinist error as you do, I don't think I would feel comfortable so easily finding fault and casting aspersion on the vast majority of professing believers in the Son of God as you do. After all, you are in the favored position of knowing "divine truth" through absolutely no accomplishment of your own - And the rest of us? We are where we are, through no fault of our own. In a very real way I guess I can confidently say, I am living in accordance with God's will as well, or better, than you are. For it seems, I am not elect and totally depraved; yet somehow I have come to believe in the Savior and read the Word constantlly with no help from my Father in Heaven at all... What act of grace did you accomplish today through your own doing? If I am lost, I am in that state because it is God's bidding; I would be denying His will by searching any other path. By seeking to point me in another way, isn't it you who is "kicking against the pricks?" By your definition, ignorance is indeed bliss... I am ever thankful for all that God has given me, for being who He wants me to be, for experiencing the lessons of mortallity He has offered to me. I am thankful for the atoning sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and the complete restoration that sacrifice provides for us all. I hope you are too...
Calvinism is a disgrace to Christianity. Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have MERCY on WHOM I WILL have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.11 For the scripture saith, WHOSOEVER believeth on him shall not be ashamed.12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto ALL that call upon him.13 For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have MERCY UPON ALL.
John 12: 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men unto me.
The so called debate with Kwaku was a disgrace and a joke.
@lordboston05
You quoted John 12: 32: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men unto me."
Would be so kind as to harmonize the words of Jesus you quoted above with His words in the following passages?:
John 6:37: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (KJV)
-- And,
John 6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (KJV)
-- And,
Matthew 11:27: All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (KJV)
Thanks
e MI God has mercy on whom he will....and he decided to have mercy on all through Jesus Christ. The gospel we preach is that of Jesus sacrificing himself on the cross for the sins of the world and his resurrection from the dead. Jesus himself told you that he would draw all men to him if he was crucified.
It is very clear that those who were given are the disciples. We know this because its those who received his teachings and were shown that he was from the father. Also, it narrows this group when it says that he lost one....Judas....a disciple
John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou GAVEST ME out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which SHALL BELIEVE on me THROUGH their WORD; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
I hope you can see the truth of the matter.
lordboston05
Thanks for your reply.
-- You wrote: "I hope you can see the truth of the matter."
I'm trying, hence my questions.
-- You wrote: "God has mercy on whom he will....and he decided to have mercy on all through Jesus Christ."
On whom does He have mercy? Is it on all men universally--saving all through Jesus Christ? Or, is it on all those believing in Him, including the Jews?
-- You wrote: "It is very clear that those who were given are the disciples."
Of course, Jesus' high priestly prayer of John 17 was for the disciples given to Him. But, whether it was as narrow as you assert, can be left for another discussion.
-- You wrote: "We know this because its those who received his teachings and were shown that he was from the father."
Yes, and how does that happen?
Your statements on these matters, however, were non responsive to my request for scriptural harmonization of the texts previously cited. Let's try it like this:
-- You wrote: "Jesus himself told you that he would draw all men to him if he was crucified."
Yes, but before Jesus told us that, he explained the following:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..." --John 6:37a; and,
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." --John 6:44a
So, according to Jesus, who are the "all" that come to Him and under what condition can they come to Him?
And, is the "whomsoever" of Matthew 11:27, everyone, i.e., all men--universally?
Thanks again.
Grace and peace.
e MI The disciples were clearly chosen/given to Jesus while he was on earth. This is not the case for all who will ultimately believe in him. Faith is not a work. And it is your burden to prove that John 6 provides and exception that undermines all of scripture or a clarification for the condition of the apostles. John 17 provides you a clear way to distinguish who was given to Christ and those would believe through the word after the cross. Its worth noting that even Paul(an apostle) was a chosen vessel of God. We know that this is not true of all believers. Calvinism and its doctrines blinds you and others to the truth of scripture.
As for Matthew 11:27 The verse that follows it makes its clear 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. We know that we rest in Christ if we hear the word and believe. Has he not revealed the Father to all of us?
lordboston05
-- You wrote: "The disciples were clearly chosen/given to Jesus while he was on earth. This is not the case for all who will ultimately believe in him."
Are saying the following scripture is not for those "who will ultimately believe in him."?: (I broke up Eph. 1:3-13 into chunks for better readability.)
Ephesians 1:3-6: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:7-12: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Ephesians 1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
-- You wrote: "Its worth noting that even Paul(an apostle) was a chosen vessel of God. We know that this is not true of all believers.
Really? How do we know that, when Paul (the same Apostle) himself wrote?:
Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
No, we are not Apostles, but are we not "His workmanship--His vessels--His chosen?
-- You wrote: "Has he not revealed the Father to all of us?"
Yes, He has. "...to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." His voice, His sheep.
Thanks you kindly, but no need to concern yourself over my eyesight. Just got them checked, they be good.
Grace and peace.
Ok, but here’s my quick question in regards to this idea: before humans exist, they have to be created, so if humans are created by God, who molds them, why are they guilty of eternal wrath before they even exist to chose him or not?
This is like saying, my son, who hasn’t been born yet, has been predestined before he opens his eyes, to suffer for eternity, because God chose for him to suffer before he has a choice to follow God in the first place.
Your understanding is correct. The book of life with the names of the elect was written before the foundations of the earth were created. So, every person before they are either born have a pre-determined eternal destiny that is either in heaven or hell. Every person either receives mercy or they receive justice as Paul explains in Romans 9
The Bible says we are predestined and it says we have free will. So it is both, whether it makes sense to me or not is irrelevent, I am not God. I actually have come to understand this, therefore this theological difference is not problematic for me. A lot of time is wasted debating Arminianism and Calvinism.
Jeff,....you're a 'Third degree Black Belt in logic" and study. I like watching someone with; brains, humility, and honor.
Amen and amen Jeff. Sometimes we can't imagine the magnitude of the fact that God gives grace to ANY of us so we take it for granted. Thank you for fleshing this out. When I think of His grace and His power I have no choice but to fall to my knees in a heap. I am undone.
Grace is miraculous. None of us can understand it, the closer we come to God, the more we realize how miraculous his grace is.
But, God has given us commandments. How can he judge his own creation contrary to Genesis chapter 1?
He called it good. Why then did he create some for glory and others for destruction if they cannot choose what he has called good?
And the idea that we are both free in will and yet predetermined is anything but compatable. You cannot be both free and determined.
Ought implies can. -Immanuel Kant.
Frank Scherer straw man argument. You do not have a grasp of Calvinism. Calvinism does not deny free will.
@@nicolaslosito5735 No but I do have a degree in philosophy and a God given mind of reason.
Let me tell you, the question of free will vs determinism has been debated for all recorded history with neighter side progressing any further on the other. Compatablism is unsound, in the realm of possibility, it is the only impossibility. What you are claiming is determinism. Nothing else, nothing more. You cannot be predetermined and also free to choose.
What do you mean by free will? You mean God allows people to freely choose what he has already decided? If so, that is exactly what free will, is not.
In all that recorded history... Determinism has not been the position of the God of Israel or later, the followers of Christ.
Determinism is a materialist world view. Book of Genesis is ontological at the core. The very purpose for which we are created for is rooted in choice and is the illustration that God has given to us for understanding of our very origin.
Teach a child the story of creation in Genesis. Go immediately to your doctrine and the child will know you are reading from another book or else from a very confused author
TWO Amens? WOW! That's some truth now, huh?
"I believe a vast majority of humanity will be shown grace" my bible says the path is narrow, Few are those who find it. We'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
1 thing the bible is clear on, yet so many are so confused on is, Whosoever means anyone, all means anyone, anyone means everyone, the sick, the heavy laden, hungry, thirsty, tired, poor, hurt, lost, seeking, blind, lame. Salvation is for anyone who falls, or at some point has fallen into one or all of those categories. Calvin wasn't a good person spiritually or morally. If I did believe His theology, my biggest problem would be that God chose Him. Do your homework a little more thoroughly. Predestination is the awesome plan God has laid for anyone who meets the requirements set before them by God. "to Him who seeks me, I will by no means cast Him out"
You should read the first half of that verse you cited at the end of your paragraph....
The Total of John 6:37 is as follows...
John 6:37
ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVES TO ME SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
@@conradmiller8984 ok, everything is God's. I'm pretty sure that we can agree on that. God sent the sacrifice, Jesus, who made a way for us to be redeemed by His blood. God's plan, through Jesus. God is the Judge.
I stand before the Judgement of God, He has declared me "not guilty", thus the verdict is in favor of the defendant, Jesus, not Satan, the accuser of the brethren.
Jesus calls His own, whoever God has given eternal life.
There is a dimension in the Trinity that we lack understanding of, but it is beyond our comprehension.
@@cliffcartwright5577 John 6:44 Jesus himself says that no one can come to him unless the father draws them. You seem to be saying the opposite. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
@@conradmiller8984 Yes, God the father draws us. How?
I was drawn to my wife because she is absolutely gorgeous, not fat and ugly. God's character is revealed in His word, His love, His goodness, and His mercy- Jesus Christ himself. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing of the Word of God. The Word became flesh, some were drawn to Jesus, others had better things to do. Look at the rich young ruler.
I think you see it as if it's a secret that God is good. That he is a good father, that He will fulfill What He says. I believe that Jesus was very clear on who He came for. Anyone who doesn't think they are fine the way they are.
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you, resist the devil, and he will flee from you. No temptation has ....
Have a great day!
@@conradmiller8984 So is that predestine? if so why did Moses stack the rock
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has committed all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all ... From him and through him and to him are all things." (Rom. 11:32,36)
I think you would agree with me that the scriptures must harmonize. My question is how do you reconcile 1st Timothy 2:4 and 2nd Peter 3:9 which clearly tell us God desires all men to be saved and is not willing that any should perish? If he only elects a certain few then doesn't that make him a schizophrenia?
@@timmarchbanks5241 Oh brother… Okay well firstly I notice you completely ignored the other passage I cited in 1 Timothy 2:4 so let us take another quick look at what GOD tells us here. **Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.** Note the context is for us to be praying for all men including kings and authority figures and to live godly before them. Why? Because God desires ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. This can’t just mean “all chosen men” because if He determines in advance who will be saved, then that’s like saying I desire everyone I choose to give a hundred bucks to have a hundred bucks. If I chose them and gave it to them then of course they will have it. In the context it doesn’t matter who the book was written to this doesn’t in any way change the intended meaning. If I wrote a letter to my children and said I wish for all children to be happy, my children would know I didn’t just mean all of my children. I don’t think it could be any more clear that the desire of God is for ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
Now let’s look at 2 Peter 3:9 **But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.** The context is concerning scoffers who are claiming that the promise of His return has been a long time now and He still hasn’t come. Peter says that the Lord has been longsuffering regarding His return because He is not willing that any should perish. Again the same principle applies here as with 1 Timothy 2. How is any predestined person going to “perish” if they have been predestined? It’s utter nonsense to claim that because the book was written to those who are saved that the context means God is concerned about those He has predestined being lost. The “any” (or all) here can only mean all who are lost and have not received by choice God’s amazing gift. Yes if a teacher says to here class “Are we all here” she obviously means just those enrolled in her class. But if she says to her class, “Are we all responsible for taking care of the planet?” she obviously means all in a much broader sense. To claim God is longsuffering because He is concerned about His predestined perishing makes Him to be worse than a schizophrenia, it turns Him into a moron. He desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and is longsuffering not willing that any should perish. That’s pretty easy to understand unless you have a pet doctrine your trying to rescue.
@@timmarchbanks5241 **if God desires all men to be saved and is waiting for all men to come to repentance, why do not all men come to repentance?** Firstly it doesn’t say He is waiting for all men to repent. It just says He desires all men, and that He is being longsuffering towards all men, but not all men want to or will repent. You have to understand why this whole thing is happening first. Why did God create Adam and Eve who He knew would fall in the garden? Why did He speak and say let there be light? Why did He create this universe to contain humanity? Did you ever ask any of these questions while reading the accounts of creation? Most people understand “how” He created everything within six days but few take the time to gleam from the scriptures “why” He did it. There is actually one place in the book where this is revealed to us. It was when Jesus was talking to the woman at the well. She was talking about worship and said some teach to worship God on this mountain and the Jews say in the temple. She was just wanting to know which was correct. However, Jesus took us all down an interesting road saying that the day will come when true worshipers will do neither, but will worship God in Spirit and in truth. Then Jesus said something that slips by most people. He said for God “seeks” such to worship Him. The idea here that Jesus conveyed is that God’s purpose is for people to have the ability to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Or you might say that God seeks to have real meaningful relationships with people who love Him and are real with Him. Now I can program my locked phone screen to scroll the words “I love you” across the screen but those words would not be meaningful. It would just be forced programming. However when I get a random text from my wife during the day that says “I love you,” my heart skips a beat and I get excited. That’s because I know she didn’t have to say those words, she freely chose to. The fact of the matter is that any kind of a real love relationship demands four properties in order to be real.
L-Liberty. The person must have liberty to choose to love me or reject me. If I put a gun to my wife’s head and demand she tells me she loves me, she might say the words but they wouldn’t mean anything.
O-Opportunity. The person must be given the opportunity to choose to love or not to love. Only when I dated my wife and gave her the opportunity to get to know me and to choose to love me did it become meaningful. There are plenty of women who never chose to love me and this fact is evidence to my wife that she did indeed have a free choice. If every woman she ever met was madly in love with me then she would be apt to think it was something that all women were programmed to do. Likewise, if God only created people He knew would choose to love Him then He would be denying a lot of people the opportunity and He would create a condition in which I would think I had no choice but to love Him because everyone I knew did. Follow? So, God created those who He foreknew would not choose to love Him along with those who would even though they were given the same free choice that I was given. In that way I know that my love for Him is real meaningful love and not programming.
V-Value. Real love must have value. If my wife told me she loved me and didn’t care if I slept around on her with other women, then I would not see any value in her love. The fact that there are consequences to cheating on her increases the value of her love exponentially. Likewise, if God said He loves everyone and doesn’t care what we do, we all get to go to heaven, His love would have no value at all. The fact that there are consequences for sin and He did the unthinkable by sending His only begotten Son to pay those consequences makes His love most valuable. When I see what He did for me and I receive His amazing gift, and then I see the consequences to those who reject it, I value His love above all else. Real love must have value.
E-Expression. Real love must be expressed. If I said I love my wife but I never asked her on a date and eventually to marry me, what good is my so-called love? But when I stood at an alter before God and men and proclaimed my love for her I have now expressed it. God of course expressed His love for us when He sent His Son to the cross, therefore it is not unreasonable for Him to expect us to freely express our love for Him by making that verbal confession of His Lordship over us. (Rom. 10:9-10)
When we understand the “why” and the four requirements of real love, then the fact that “wide is the path that leads to destruction and many are on it,” doesn’t seem unreasonable at all.
@@timmarchbanks5241 The same thing it means in the following passage:
**2 Tim. **2:24**-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.**
The idea conveyed is that by our gentle spirit, not quarrelling, and patience, we will help them to see the truth and thereby be granted repentance escaping the snare of the devil. It doesn’t mean they have no choice in the matter. It means we can be better teachers if we stop trying to be right more than being loving. This will help them see the truth and make the correct “choice” in which God will grant the repentance He has appropriated to all who make that choice.
@@timmarchbanks5241 **The problem I have with that kind of thinking is that you have to deal with Phil **1:30** and John **6:44** Belief is granted and men must be drawn** I think you meant Phil. 1:29. Which I already addressed previously. Yes belief is granted. In second Timothy 2:24-26 we are told that a person is “granted” repentance to the acknowledging of the truth. That means that we have to “choose” to acknowledge the truth and repentance is then granted. Do we have to be “drawn?” Of course, absolutely. As you pointed out in John 6:44 Jesus made this very clear. The question I have then is who is being drawn? Well if we are going to listen to John 6:44 we also must listen to John 12:32 where Jesus tells us when He is lifted up He will “draw” ALL men. The gospel goes out to all men and calls all men. All men are given the choice to respond to the gospel. They have to “acknowledge” the truth before God will “grant” them repentance. To this passage I expect you will try and claim He means He will draw all “predestined” men from all classes of men. Let me just save you some time and ask you to go with me to 1John 2:2 where we read that Jesus Himself is the propitiation for our sins and for those of the “whole world.” There is no doubt by these texts that it is more than just the “elect” being drawn. It is all men of the whole world, but according to Jesus only a few will “find” that narrow way.
**If you say that all men are drawn somehow and then must choose or deny you’ll have massive problems with verses such as Phil 1:6.** No there is no problem with free will and this passage because the scriptures also teach that we are kept by the power of God. Meaning you don’t lose salvation. Some have a false faith and appear to fall away, and some who have a true faith may backslide, but once we are His it is then Him who keeps us. If He keeps us, then He also keeps working on us until our faith is complete and we are a perfect reflection of Him. He drew us with His gospel and His Spirit, we acknowledged the truth and thus He was the author of our faith, then He continues to work in us to complete the work He has begun in us. He’s the author and finisher.
**If God desires salvation for all men as you say why does He not draw and grant belief to them?** I’m sorry friend I’ve already explained this several times. I really don’t know how else to convey it to you. If I have a deed and a key to a brand-new mansion wrapped in a small gift. I walk up to a homeless man and offer him the gift. He can choose to accept or reject it. What he can’t do is boast about how great of a gift receiver he is. God offers each of us an amazing unspeakable gift. That is the very nature of a gift. You have the choice to receive it or not. Just because you have that choice and you accept it does not give you room to in anyway boast…which is really at the heart of this. Those who believe in election are so scared of any possibility of boasting that they strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
@@timmarchbanks5241 **No reformed individual claims we do not have a choice in the matter of salvation. we are volitional creatures who desire things and choose things of our own will. Your whole acronym for love is built on a massive misunderstanding of reformed theology.** I’m sorry friend but I’m going to show my ignorance here. I have no clue what “reformed theology” is. I just love Jesus and study the Bible. I have never been to Bible school or taken any formal training. I know some terms from what I have picked up in conversations with Bible students. I just have an amazing love and gratitude for my Savior and His word and know He wants us to go out into the highways and byways and compel people to come in. He doesn’t give us busy work. He uses us to reach sinners of whom I was once chief.
**Pre conversion, we aren’t running around seeking God.** I fully agree with you. However when someone presents the truth to us we at that moment can choose to acknowledge that truth or reject it. **God must come and give us a new heart before we can ever think about choosing Him, if he does not do this, who will choose Him?** Where does it say this? Basically what you are saying here is we must change in order to want to change. That doesn’t make any logical sense and that is not what the Bible teaches us friend. **Calvinists and Arminians should be able to agree on these points and praise Christ for His mercies in all things.** I praise Christ that in spite of your doctrine you have faith in Him. Nowhere does it say we have to have perfect doctrine to go to heaven. I guess here is my ultimate concern and as I mentioned above I know Calvinists are concerned about boasting, well my concern is about a notion that only certain people are predestined to go to heaven and therefore it isn’t all that urgent for me to go out and share the gospel. I have met many Calvinists since my conversion 30 years ago. From the moment my feet hit the floor as a new Christian I began going out into the streets of St. Louis and preaching the gospel. All the Calvinists I have met in those 30 years have been actually in opposition to me not supportive of me. And I have never once met a Calvinist who was just out to only proclaim the gospel. I see them out protesting abortion clinics which I also abhor and maybe sharing some gospel, but have never seen them just out there trying to reach the lost “period.” That is troubling to me my friend. And I believe, you can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is because in the back of their minds their doctrine has them convinced to do so is pointless because God will save who He elects regardless. I am convinced that the enemy of Christ has fed predestination to the saints and we bought it. His end game is always to shut us up about this Jesus and this predestination doctrine encourages our silence.
Jeff, God gives his grace to EVERYONE who is willing to freely execpt it through Jesus. Period end.
@@christianmama2441
Last time I checked you nor I are not one of the greatest prophets to ever live. Just because Johns life was predestined does NOT mean yours is. That is a stretch!