HA! Leave it to me to remember to bring back the 'What's In The Cup' segment to get some of those sweet affiliate residuals while bashing an Amazon show. So I cut it from the video, because it sounds dumb here. BUT if you do shop there anyway, use my link below and I get, I don't know, probably 2% of what you buy. The things in my storefront are things I have purchased and use. amzn.to/3IBDg5r
@@SilverDragoon7395 Getting back to it now. I stopped after Valaquenta because I thought I could make better jokes if I wasn't angry about the broken lore and themes, lol
@@gregowen2022 If I could point something out. I get the criticism that making the Orks seem more human is stupid. But if I may there is a nuance that I feel gets lost if you are not generally familiar with the lore. The tragedy of the Orks is the fact that while they were once men or elves and have been twisted to such an extent that they can only be cruel and vile. Yet you do see the occasional shred of an inkling of humanity ie in the books they are able to sing songs and form communities to an existent. They often have to take pieces of civilization from others because they can't make their own. They're like intelligent zombies in a way. I say all of that to say they threw out all of that nuanced and replaced it with, "SeE thEy HavE fAmILiEs tOo." Lazy.
@@SilverDragoon7395 That would have been nice to show. They sound like the Kolos from the Mistborn books, which was a cool twist in that one. It added depth, but they were still monsters
This show reminds me of my parents in the years leading up to them getting a divorce. No one communicates, everyone is ready to be mad at each other and I started drinking and doing drugs.
Whenever modern writers talk about writing complex characters it reminds me of when my brother would talk about building a project car but has never changed his own oil. Difference is that deep down my brother knows he's full of shit
The one thing I'll give them is that in the Silmarillion, Sauron did actually attempt to have a redemption arc at the start of the 2nd age. But the reason for his failure to redeem himself has nothing to do with life happening or people or Orcs betraying him like the show tries to do. He failed to turn good entirely because of his own personal failings. Sauron feared the judgment of the Valar, so he refused to go to Valinor and risk their punishment for his actions when he served Morgoth. Had he gone to Valinor, he might have learned a level of humility by being among beings who were either his equals or much more powerful than him. Instead, because of his fear, he stayed in Middle Earth, the place where he was now the most powerful being. So his pride grew unchecked until he became another Dark Lord like Morgoth. He's entirely to blame for his fall back into evil.
Whoa, I didn't know this, but doesn't it sound like what they did to GALADRIEL in Season 1? Like, she was too proud and revenge-driven to return to Valinor? It makes me wonder if the decision to make her super flawed was actually intentional as opposed to just accidental Girlboss writing now.
@@Sidera17 If an Elf remained in Middle Earth after the defeat of Morgoth and the start of the Second Age, it was because they refused the call to return to Valinor. This applies to every Elf, Galadriel, Gil Galed, Elrdon, and all those they led. It was less about pride and vengeance and more about the fact that they developed a strong attachment to Middle Earth after spending hundreds of years fighting and dying to defend it. The thing about Galadriel is that she has a lot of pride and power, but she has the wisdom not to use that power or act on that pride, and even in her youth she rejected those Elves who did not, like her refusal of all of Feanor's 3 requests for a strand of her hair to help him when he was forging the Simarils. She sensed in him all the negative qualities her show counterpart has. Feanor and all the High Elves who let their pride and desire for vengeance guide them led the Elves to disaster and were ultimately killed throughout the First Age, so any High Elf with the qualities Galadriel displays in the show would be dead by the time the show starts. That's part of the reason the High Elves seem so wise in LOTR. Not only have they been around forever, but those who acted like Amazon Galadriel removed themselves from the gene pool 2 ages earlier while those who were not so rash survived through the War of the Ring.
@@garywillig5143 It's definitely portrayed as pride and the desire for kingdoms of their own. Being in middle Earth where they are the most powerful and important creatures is a sign of attachment-- to things like ego, reputation, personal advancement. Elves are supposed to be in Arnor, that's why the journey back home is so significant and portrayed as elves maturing-- this is why the vanyar who remained in Arnor are the wisest and most powerful and the ones who settled middle Earth to begin were motivated by personal conquest and glory like feanor
@@garywillig5143 Oh wow, thanks for this backstory. I'm mainly a fan from the books and the movies, so I don't know the lore previously. It contextualizes even more how Galadriel's character was messed up. Even the other elves in this season making decisions the weird way they do, especially Celebrimbor. He just got corrupted in one scene.
Plus, in Valinor he would have been under the influence of the Valar, which could have had a positive effect on him. After all, Sauron became what he became because of Morgoth's influence during the song of creation.
It makes me sad to know that international audiences are watching this. It's almost like the entire thing is a psy-op to make the world think Tolkien's work is bad.
Sauron, right hand man of the literal devil, lord of darkness, bringer of ruin to the world. Monster of unimaginable power who corrupted the elves and turned them into monsters. Is simply misunderstood 😅
The more I learn about this show the clearer it becomes that they had absolutely no interest in making one of Tolkien's stories. This is their story. Them trying to "humanize" the mythological incarnation of evil on earth who is very specifically and deliberately NOT HUMAN shows exactly how little they understand his work. It's like deciding to make a movie of the Bible and being like "What if we make Satan the good guy?" You havn't just messed up your Bible movie, you don't know what the Bible is.
Saurrrrron is the epitome of evil. End of. But I think the whole concept of “misunderstood villain” became very popular by Anime especially at the point when the bad guy is about to take his last breath. May this be the last breath of this type of stupid and mindless “adaptation”. The good thing is that the show runners will never get a decent job again (I hope even if it’s a fool’s hope).
I continue to be amazed at how dark everything is these days. Not dark as in "that's a pretty dark story", but dark as in "holy crap I can't see anything". Is nobody calibrating their monitors to any kind of standard in the editing department?
Is it not just because every show is made for HDR TVs. And still the majority of TVs are to old to have HDR support. My Philips 70" TV claims to have HDR support, but there is no hardware that support it. It has just recived some software update that change the brightness and contrast when HDR content is displayed.
Dude, the scene with the loving Orc father not wanting to leave his family and go off to war, was legit the most cringe fucking thing I have seen in my life that seriously, it was like an attempting to build sympathy for Ted Bundy. After he's like, 30 kills in.
The funniest part of this is that there's a scene like this when Sam is sneaking around after taking the ring from Frodo when he got poisoned. But the orcs want to escape from the war to make a brigand band and rob people, not fucking raise a peaceful family.
"They were all necessary to feed his family, not his fault he's a predator" We used to have stories like Little Red Riding Hood, teaching us to beware the wolf in granny's clothing..
It'd mind boggling to me. The Acolyte's premise is "Let's tell this story from the Sith point of view during the period they're just starting to re-emerge and working in the shadows during the Jedi's height." Alright, badass. People love villains. Everyone loves Darth Vader, they thought Darth Maul was cool. People love Joker and there's absolutely nothing redeeming about him. A Sith focused story of the bad guys doing bad things could be great. And then........ nah, let's toy with the notion the Jedi are bad and the Sith just want freedom from dogma. WTF? Rings of Power gives us the chance to actually play with the devil of Middle-Earth. We can see why he's "The Deceiver" and how his cunning and guile in pursuit of his own power, his aspirations of grandeur to do that which even Morgoth could not......... nah, he was actually not wanting to be bad, it was just circumstances that he couldn't escape from. W T F?! And the new one coming up - Tomb Raider. Hollywood demands we accept cold, calculating, badass girlbosses, so this one should be pretty easy to adapt properly since Lara is the original "mad, bad, and dangerous to know" badass girlboss if there ever was one -- we're going to make her soften up and be more thoughtful and mindful and caring to others. W....T.....FFFFFFFFF?! No one can give you a name, said Gandalf...Mithrandir... Tharkûn... Incánus... none of which are his actual name, but the many he's given and goes by through his time in Middle-Earth. COMPLETELY unrelated tangent,, but your comment of not orating as a king all the time hits on something that drives me nuts in dang near every Batman adaptation in both film and animation. Is Bruce only able to be Batman through method acting? If he has the cowl on, is he incapable of breaking character? Because it drives me nuts we'll have these actors putting on a different voice as Bruce versus the performance voice of Batman. You see him as Bruce in public and he talks one way. You see him interrogating someone as Batman and he talks another way. You see him talking to Robin and Alfred in the manor and he talks like Bruce. You see him in the cave at the computer talking to Alfred with the cowl on and.....he talks like Batman. You're alone. In the cave. With Alfred. He already knows you're Bruce. Why are you using the Batman persona?! Drives me nuts.
It makes sense from their perspective: communist are diabolically evil by every standard of morality known to man but the producers of these shows are communist. How do you get the public to swallow the evil they intend to inflict upon the world in November???? Make shows where genocidal maniacs and monsters are misunderstood and those who fight them are oppressive police officers making life hard for Satan. This is How they're going to make Kamala palatable... Except it didn't work and now we're all bigots for choosing God over the devil
100%. Why these people think flipping expectations is so clever is beyond me. Seeing HOW Sauron deceived would be so cool. Even his deception in this show is terrible. He tries to get on the dwarf's side by flattering him, which he does see through, but is still convinced to take the ring idea to his dad anyway! That's not Sauron's masterful treachery, that's dumb luck!
I have long thought that this is the show’s original sin. Sauron was present for all the major second age events (the rings, numenor, last alliance, etc.) Why turn the most important character into an (easily solved) mystery box? He should have been the protagonist.
@@gregowen2022 It feels like this is all they can do when trying to add more to a story that's already been told well with a clear beginning, middle, and end. It also feels like because people irl want to be empathetic towards others, they apply the same thing to fictional characters, and I guess for some liking a villain is easier when they seem more redeemable or sympathetic. Even though as the commentor brought up people love characters like Darth Vader, Darth Maul, and the Joker while acknowledging that they are irredeemable villains (with Vader as an exception). Moreover, people prefer the "evil to be evil" Disney villains more than the Disney villains that are supposedly more complex 🤔.
@Ninjafox To answer your question about Batman. Usually the idea is that Batman is the real person and Bruce Wayne is the facades. I.E. as Bruce Wayne he plays up the fact that he's a billionaire playboy with charisma and charm. However, his true persona is Batman and he becomes that when putting on the cape and cowl. BTAS captures this well. Where Kevin Conroy r.i.p., gives Batman a more growly or deeper voice and gives Bruce a more lighter and friendly sounding voice 🤔.
I feel like one of the main reasons they did this was to develop a tragic Enemies to Lovers between him and Galadriel, and we're going to see the two of them constantly conflicted when encountering each other. But it ruins who the characters are supposed to be. I could even buy seeing Sauron be a "seducer" of people in all senses of the word, including false love and physical seduction, because he represents manipulative evil and temptation. But actually forming emotional attachments to other characters? Noooooo.
@@Sidera17 Sauron always had this "seduction" element to him, but him actually caring for someone feels wrong. He could lust for Galadriel, but loving her is out of the question
@@Sidera17 I think it may have worked if they used a woman to develop this idea. But Elves were completely repulsed by Sauron, and far less affected by emotional manipulation. They chased beauty in nature and craft, which is why Celebrimbor was deceived. It had nothing to do with personal attachment. But Galadriel forming an emotional bond with a random stranger? That's beyond ridiculous. Even worse, in the series Galadriel thinks Celeborn was killed by Sauron. How tf would she be conflicted about how she feels? It makes no sense.
Remember when the Peter Jackson trilogy showed Sauron on screen a grand total of twice for about 4.5 seconds in the first 10 minutes of a 12 hour trilogy and it went perfectly because Sauron isn't supposed to be humanized he's supposed to be evil incarnate? Yeah that was great.
100% on the money. There is a direct line all the way back to Marx, who viewed the world that way, as class warfare. His ideas persist, and now here we are with family-man orcs, and a Sauron that isn't such a bad guy
@@kostantza1 I wonder what he'd say if someone could go back and tell him this is the future. Corporations parrot his ideas to sell subscriptions, and we have a sympathetic Satan.
@@gregowen2022 I want to believe if he could see the future he'd still be reeling from the crimes against humanity commited in the name of his ideology and the corporate appropriation of this same ideology would just be the final nail in the coffin. Then again, he was kind of a douche, so idk what would vex him more 😅
@@gregowen2022You could actually pin this on Antonio Gramsci, who proposed the idea of cultural hegemony in which socialists should adopt an oppressive system and gradually change it over time to where a pro-socialist culture becomes the new dominant culture. Many professors picked this idea up and used it as a stepping stone to change the western world towards their new establishment
In the book, Galadriel was the only one who didn't fall for Annatar's charms and gifts, and tried to warn others about his true intentions In ROP, not only was she fooled by Halbrand, but kept to herself that SAURON was walking amongst Elves, and Gil-Galad (their king) had to basically beg her to say who Halbrand really was.
That’s incorrect. Galadriel wasn’t the only one. In the Silmarillion, Elrond and Gil-Galad also didn’t trust Annatar. Celebrimbor was the only prominent Elf who was willing to listen to Annatar’s sales pitch.
Here's the _actual_ backstory for the Orcs: They're monsters. If they don't have something to kill they will find something to kill. They were created specifically to be servants for Morgoth and Sauron and only they can scare them enough to reign them in. There were attempts to turn them civilized and they all failed. FFS they _ate_ eachother in the LotR trilogy.
They are also coded as non white and non European, their fundamental design bothered even Tolkien. There is plenty to hate on here, but trying to fix the orc, trying to give them moral agency is not one of them
Holy crap. You are SPOT ON with the psychological analysis of what motivates these people to continually create sympathetic villains and write morally relativistic stories. SPOT ON. People in Hollywood have very, VERY strange morals.
"this thing bores so hard, I'm pretty sure it's trying to take over ba sing se" This burn was so sharp, it could sink a ship and leave everyone to drown.
"Everyone is an idiot. That's the only way this season happens." You summarized both seasons pretty well right there. Then, "Can't get distracted by dumb stuff. The writers didn't care. I shouldn't either." Ha!
""Everyone is an idiot" That´s the premise of most media today. I think it´s because the writers write what they know. You can´t write someone more intelligent than you
The second season contradicts the first one about everything that has to do with Sauron. In the first season Galadriel says that after Morgoth's fall, Sauron took over. The second seasons shows Sauron as some unpopular politician who got overthrown by some oppressed orcs with morals who just want to live their lives and raise their kids. Galadriel said Sauron raged war and got her brother killed, but if he didn't control the orcs who were dissatisfied, how was her brother killed by him? This show is a joke. I watched the first season, hated it, and no way am I watching the second one.
Those are excellent points! I didn't even notice that part, but yes! This is what happens when you try to pull a switcheroo on the audience because you think it's cool
The books do say orcs procreated like elves, but I find it hard to believe they would have family lives as depicted in the show. It would probably be more along the lines of popping out a few kids and letting them work it out themselves on day 1. If you're weak, you die, if not, we'll see you on the battlefield.
As someone who RoP has gotten to be more active in the Tolkien fandom again - for better or worse - I've noticed that when it comes to RoP, there are basically three camps. In the first camp are the people who are fans of LOTR but never got into RoP, never cared about it in the first place / only barely knew it existed. Then, predictably, in camps two and three there are the stans and the antis. Something I just can't really wrap my head around in coming across comments written by stans of the show is their absurdity. "This show is perfect and I could not ask for anything more of an adaptation" is not an out-of-place comment in those circles. Often, these are delivered with what I imagine to be the spiteful affectation of someone who wants to stick it to the haters so much that they decide to go all-out in the opposite direction. Meanwhile, they're going to such lengths to protect the honor of a blockbuster Amazon TV show that funded its money off the backs of Amazon warehouse workers who aren't even allowed proper toilet breaks.
Yeah, the defenses get so hyperbolic and that's the thing I can't respect. There are plenty of unpopular things that I like, and I understand the critiques of them, yet continue to like them. I don't pretend they are perfect, because that's trying too hard.
@@gregowen2022 In some sense, what we're seeing is a rather common phenomenon in fandoms: the stans vs. the antis. Just that here it's really a lot more polarized and nastier than the usual "this character is actually evil / this character should not be redeemed" discourse. The antis camp is one foot in the online outrage clickbait industry and apparently the stans camp is one foot in an Amazon cult. A lot of the reasonable comments about RoP that I've seen tend to come from people who don't have much to do with these online fandom wars.
@@gregowen2022 "The defenses get so hyperbolic". What about the offense? You're saying the same shit as everyone else making this "RoP is so bad" content. You literally say nothing new. Which is fine. I watched your video, but with the overwhelmingly negative review videos out there you are the one being hyperbolic with your opinions here. I do not share your opinions of the show, but I guess I am just going at it as "Give me a pretty fantasy not full of torture pourn like GoT or HoD and let me escape for a bit." I'm not part of the Tolkien religion to the point that I am upset about cultural appropriation of dwarfs and elves. I save that for show's like Bridgerton (my wifes show) that deserve it. Also, everyone is on a redemption arc for Sauron. He never showed signs of redemption, he just learned of a distant land that might be easier to conquer and a potential army he could raise to take back what he perceived he lost. His "free my people" this was another manipulation from the great deceiver. I digress though, I like the show for what I see it as. Mindless escape into a pretty fantasy world. Not an offense to my religion like some of you voices make it out to be. Opinions differ.
@@99-221 I am not into Tolkien religion. And I also like to mindlessly go into stupid simple shows to be able to escape my stressful sometimes fucked life! But man oh man ... Emily in Paris for ex never sold itself like a masterpiece! Bridgeton never told is like the original story just better. Also, at least their main woman characters are fucking likeable! I liked the Witcher well enough through all the butchering until Cavill left! And so on... This is about the high expectations they knowingly brought! Also LOTR in itself is a very respectable story and world. If you ever read it you will understand it is a pity to butcher it. Just for the grandeur and profoundess of it So they embarked in making a show about a grand world from a grand book that has many followers and many people in love with that world and proceeded to shit on it! It's ... at least it gives you a sour taste in the mouth! It ain't about being dark or white or gay or straight or anything in between! I never have any issues with that! But just make it logical, make it make sense ... have some fucking modicum of respect for the source material and what the OG writer wanted to share. Also as a last ideea ... I dislike when these people think they are better than the original writer of a source material! If you are sooo much better and good, make your own stories! Why trample on cadavers? Aaaaah because that this were the money and fandom is??? The hypocrisy is through the roof! Oh we do not need the fans but please come pay for our products and when they don't they are bigots and racists
@@moon-moth1 I have seen what you are talking about in the comments sections to political articles. How especially in the past month they have all shifted sides and each comment sounds the same. I have not noticed it with this show because all I see is negative. If you are referring to me as an Amazon shill then no. I fact I’m not a fan of Amazon for how horrible “The Boys” season 4 was and if this was a video about that shitfest you would find no support from me. In fact, I find myself in a position of constant disagreement with people I usually agree with constantly. I am not being paid to be at odds. Maybe it’s all above my head and I’m just satisfied with the window dressing here. I’m fine with it. I do enjoy the show and I hope they do not cancel it.
I'm honestly tired of the moral ambiguity too. I mean, it works for Dirty Harry and Game of Thrones, but not everywhere. Some worlds are blue sky and some are grimdark. Tolkein was ALWAYS a blue sky writer. this, this is just wrong.
I think Rings of Power was never meant to be any good... They hired 2 nobody's as showrunners/writers and spent tons of $ on special effects shots for a grand trailer in order to get... Amazon Prime subscriptions Its $1 billion Prime ad
I've grown to really dislike the whole sympathetic villain cliche that's become more widespread nowadays. Unless said villain hasn't killed anyone or has undone their wrongdoing, they don't deserve a second chance. I for one would never forgive a mass murderer, and I bet neither would any sane hero.
Yes. On the one hand, there are redeemable villains (who usually started out as idealistic heroes and then through traumatic events became cynical, nihilistic, jadfed or bent on evenge), and their redemption arc can be a lot of fun. On the other hand, there are irredeemable psychopaths and sadists, who might be either 1. perfectly self-aware of what they are (the Joker, Mr. Teatime from Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels) but show such ruthlessness they can either cow people into obedience, or have enough charisma and smooth-talking to start a personality cult, 2. so egotistical and delusional that they believe _they_ are "the hero of their own story" (Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2), or simply bringing "order" to a chaotic universe (Darth Vader), or have a god complex so vast they think anything they do is justifiable in light of their grand mission and destiny (David from Prometheus and Alien: Covenant). 3. have gone completely insane so that they can find excuses and justifications for whatever monsterous things they do in their past pain, but they're unwilling to listen even to the people they claim to care about (Jinx from Arcane).
In 1971 John Gardner wrote a retelling of Beowulf from the perspective of Grendel, it's just called "Grendel." That was the first and last time this trope was interesting or compelling.
As a Tolkien nerd for 30+ years it only takes 30sec of footage to know I ain't going near any of this crap. Any random 30sec clip is all it takes to know these people don't know what they hell they are doing.
You would have to travel a great distance to see new constellations-and you would have to travel South! In the East, the only difference is that you are in a different time zone. But it's fantasy, so real-world astronomy doesn't apply (and the shade of Tolkien, who spent considerable effort to make sure the moon phases were correct, shakes his head sadly). The stars aren't strange-but the writers certainly are!
It’s worse than that. Traveling to a different part of the world to see different constellations works because the Earth is round. But this series takes place during the Second Age, when the Earth is FLAT. It doesn’t become round until the destruction of Numenor and the beginning of the Third Age. On a flat Earth, you see exactly the same sky wherever you go. So The Stranger and his Harfoot sidekicks are on a futile quest. But of course the writers of the show don’t know that, because they’re ignorant of both Tolkien and astronomy.
Everyone thought the Pound Me Too movement exposing the dark side of Hollywood would bring a new age of accountability. Instead we got a new narrative where good and evil are subjective and evil-doers are really just misunderstood. Guess we forgot that the primary trait of a narcissist is they're NEVER wrong.
The _Seinfeld_ clip at 0:33 is a perfect summary of how I feel hearing about current year pop culture. And I don't even watch/read any of this rubbish myself. I can't imagine how soul-crushing it must be for reviewers like you, Gundam, Disparu, etc to actually sit down and watch entire episodes. Thank you for your sacrifice. A book rec for you: _The Daughter of Time_ by Josephine Tey. It's a vintage murder mystery about one of history's greatest cold cases, that has a lot to say about spotting agendas, doing one's own research, and looking at evidence. It also questions whether a famous villain - Richard III, in this case - was really evil, by investigating whether the crime happened in the first place and whether he really had the character or motive to commit such a crime. Today's writers don't have the brain capacity for that, so they just argue that evil isn't evil. The book might be a nice palette cleanser after the crime against literature known as Throne of Glass.
DAMMIT! Now the TBR is even longer, because that does sound good. Sadly, I really am reading some romantacy for video research. I'm interested in why those books are flying off the shelves, but visual media with those types of female leads fails.
Well orcs are said to procreate like other races of middle earth (remember, they are basically mutilated elves) so technically there are orc children. Was it something the audience needed to see? No. Was it something Tolkien ever showed? No. The mud pits was a movie thing. Source: "For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar," - The Silmarillion, 'Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor'
Granted that this isn’t necessarily what Jackson & co. Intended, but I reconciled the mud pits with the books by them being strictly Saruman’s invention for making Uruk Orcs with magic, because he wanted an army NOW and didn’t have the time to make them “naturally”.
That might be true, I mean orc baby's, but they still are all cruel and thoughtless monster. More like a rabid wolf. Not some misunderstood nobody who just wants to life his cozy life.
"Offspring was not reared at the will of the father, but was taken and carried to a place called Lesche by him, and there the elders of the tribes sitting, examined the infant. If it were sturdy and strong, they ordered it to be reared, and assigned to it one of the nine thousand lots of land; but if it were ill-born and deformed, they sent it to the so-called Apothetae, a chasm-like place at the foot of Mount Taygetus, considering that its life was not worth living for itself or of service to the state." -"Life of Lycurgus," Plutarch, 2nd Century AD, describing Spartan customs. That's what real life human societies used to do. We're talking about ORCS right now.
Yes, criticising this show for lack of faithfulness to Tolkien's writing, while praising PJ's nonsensical inventions is a very stupid angle to approach this show from
I wonder if the writers have any idea that they are standing on the shoulders of a giant and instead of using the height to their advantage, they decide to take a poop and jump off.
5:07 Despot of Antrim pointed out in his S1 review that Sauron's first appearance in episode 1 is also Moses-esque. There is no way this is an accident. They really do think this is clever.
I think a moral relavivism can work as a story structure, but bad writers think they are the first people to discover the concept and are obsessed with it.
Hi Greg. Mormon here. Just wanted to say “thanks for the shoutout” and also, we don’t claim that man. After what he did to LoTR, I’m pretty sure it’s an unforgivable sin.
I just want to say as a former mormon, I also have come to believe the mormon's are on to something with this whole "disciplined lifestyle" thing. Turns out, after extensive research, I can report that hedonism leads to endless misery.
I've met a few people who claim the culture but deny the faith--which shouldn't be too surprising so many people do that with catholicism. Even if that's not the case, I met plenty of active members who seemed to think about society from this morally neutral perspective--possibly just to fit in with their peers. And this wasn't just a couple people I met in college, it was the whole theatre and english departments of BYU. 😅 My point is, there's a lot of reasons J. D. Payne might write this way...even if I think it's unforgivable, too. 😂
Seeing different constellations from different locations should be impossible in Tolkien's pre-third-age world because Arda (the earth) was flat until the destruction of Numenor
Don't even get me started on all the many ways they've broken the timeline. R.E. the "rings" question about 07:00 - the order is all wrong. Sauron (in the guise of the gift lord) teaches the secrets of ring-making to the elves, and it is under his guidance the 9 and the 7 are forged. It's only AFTER he leaves the elves does Celebrimbor forge the 3, while (if I remember correctly) Sauron then goes on to Numenor and starts corrupting them there. And there's the whole "fair guise" thing that he loses the ability to do after the fall of Numenor, and it's only AFTER he forges the One Ring do the elves realise they have been deceived. Genuinely, they should be sued for plagiarism it's so bad.
See, that makes the rings make more sense, or it would, if he had given them some secret technique. The first season was so crazy, he just suggested mixing metals, but gently. THAT'S NOT A MAGIC TECHNIQUE, AMAZON!
The show is a commercial for Amazon. Now that you have a prime membership maybe you'll buy a ten pound bag of jalapeno powder or a power saw. That's it. The math says oncw you got the membership, you'll spend more money. Lord of the Rings is a brand recognizable enough to maximize the returns on such a business model. The show isn't important. That's why it costs a million dollars a minute without a single person you've heard being on screen. It's a commercial, not art, not entertainment, a commercial.
"Back to the books, back to the books" I'm convinced, at this point, was to use the pages for toilet paper after sh***ing out this irredeemable offense of a turd...
14:50 It seems he only went there to make a deal to get Adar to free the Southlanders, but that begs the question: if the only connection he has to the Southlands is that he took a thingy with the kingdom's royal crest on it from a random guy he met once, and then because of that Galadriel forced him to be king, but then he immediately ditched the place to go to Eregion, then WHY THE FREAK DOES HE CARE??? No one in this show has any motivations that make a fraction of an ounce of sense! Not to mention when he teleported to Eregion he for some reason expected Celebrimbor to let him in even though he thought he'd know he was Sauron by then. Whatever.
"One of the writers, JD Payne, is a Mormon." Ughhhhh. I didn't know this until you said it, and I am now filled with shame. As an ACTUAL Mormon, I would just like to say that he's not affiliated with us. As a Mormon who ACTUALLY KNOWS HOW TO WRITE, he's *especially* not affiliated with us. He has to go sit in a corner with Stephenie Meyer and think about what he's done. ...Actually, scratch that. Meyer, for as crappy as her writing is, at least *made money* with it. These drips can't even say that much. That's how bad this is! I need to think of a better banishment now. Thanks for your content, Greg, always great to see a new video from you. And I know some great cocoa brands if you ever decide to take a break from the coffee. ;)
Personally, I think the single most infuriating thing about this show is that EVERY SINGLE LINE of dialogue is said as if it is some deep and grand insight - a quote from time immemorial. Even when the plot is just desperately begging to be moved forward though direct narrative and dialogue, the show will torture you with yet another banal scene full of Oscar Wilde quotes, grandiose music and lavish imagery, so you can "revel" in the beauty - nay - the MAJESTY of the moment. There is absolutely no sense of buildup and climax, it's a constant stream of epic-ness vomit, and you're supposed to be blown away by the sheer magnificence of every. Single. Fucking. Scene. It's like they looked back on Galadriel's ultra cringy horse riding scene from season 1 and thought "That was so dope, man. Let's do a whole fucking season of that". The writers seriously can't climb out of their own ass even for a second. The entire thing is a huge eye roll. I honestly don't know why I subject myself to this.
I wanna see a story where the villain *seems* misunderstood at first but is ultimately revealed to be gaining the heroes' sympathy as a manipulation tactic
Actually, it's so much worse. In the actual legendarium, the only three rings of power that Sauron has no had in helping create was the three eleven rings. Those three were made without his knowledge. He has power over them because the elves used the techniques he taught them. He later became aware of them and claimed ownership over them (not possession though), but he didn't help make them. He helped with the other 15 rings or whatever it is. (I've not actually read most of the source material, but I've watched hours and hours of people explaining it and offering theories about this or that) This show makes it seem like the those three rings are the only ones Sauron helped to create. That's how lost and off the mark the writers are.
To be fair with the spider, unless they called it Shelob, it could be just a random spider. In the lore Shelob was one of many children, and she has had her own children as well.
Which is kinda funny bc even in MLP, they know that there are some villains who don’t even deserve redemption bc not once were they ever sorry or remorseful for their actions. Even all the bad shit Discord has done: he’s trying to change for the better. He’s willing to have all these challenges for Twilight and her friends to help train them to be the best they can be and is willing to put this idea that “friendship is magic” to the test
So Sauron is now Moses. The only good being that he submitted to in middle earth is Eonwe when he wanted to repent for his evil doings. Obviously Eonwe couldn’t forgive him, only the Valar could judge him. Other than that he wants to dominate, manipulate and subjugate all of middle earth. What is Amazon doing to one of the best villains in fiction.
you would quite literally be on the OTHER SIDE OF A PLANET to have constellations change shape....witch would be impossible as this world is not round yet, but instead like a floating island.....soooooo the only option then- either get to the top of the world and see a bit over the sides OR go to the sides of the continent and look down.......
Funny story what you suggested about making the rings without Sauron that’s what actually happened. The 3 elven rings were made last after the other 16. Celebrimbor made them himself without Annatar and they were the greatest of the rings. But they were still under the power of the one ring because they used Sauron’s method. But they were free to use them until the one ring was forged
Now see, THAT makes sense, and would have been cool. In this show, there is no secret technique taught to Celebrimbor, and the rings start doing evil things to their wearers IMMEDIATELY but no one seems to care. It's horrible
Even then the rings were safe to use unless Sauron actually possessed the one ring, which is why Galadriel was wearing hers during the movie trilogy. ( Since it was Frodo who had the ring at that time.)
love your work. Based on your communications talk, props to the DS9 ep where the main character realizes a communications blackout is super sketchy, and uses it to uncover the conspiracy.
From season one "Did they ever read Tolkiens work" now to season two, "Nope they definitely didn't read tolkiens work!" Five seasons of this, just think of how bad Season FIVE will be!
A serie or movie viewership depends on its quality. But a sequel depends on how good was the original. So I'm pretty curious how a series that ended with a shrinking audience will perfom with the general audience. Ok, at least Greg watched it so that means something, right ? XD
I am curious to see the viewer numbers. My prediction is we'll see a fair amount this week, and a steep drop next week. Chalk it up to morbid curiosity as to whether anyone involved listened to the complaints from season 1
@@mattcollins3591 I mean idoes well amazing for them XD.However I will wait for the viewership ratings released by independent parties before quoting it as a success story ;).
Amazon already knows how it's gonna perform, which is why they dropped 3 episodes all at one You're gonna hear the usual bobbleheads talking triumphantly about the 'minutes watched' for the premiere, then you'll hear nothing for 2 months until we find out half the audience bailed by the finale.... but because the series is going to be rushed out in 5 weeks instead of 8, the drop off won't look so bad because there literally will not be time for the ratings to hit rock bottom. when you actually understand the twisted corporate logic in play, it's actually kind of funny how much Amazon is admitting with the release schedule. they knew this season was fucked long before we did.
@@mattcollins3591 'it doubled it's audience score'.... on a site that everybody knows will put that score at whatever the studio pays them to put it at "it's no.1 world wide'.... according to the company who made it and didn't give us any actual explanation as to what they're basing that on... yeeeeah, got anything of value to say here, friend?
@@MundaneGray Believe me, I not only know that, I actually played it for a bit as a kid. Wasn't quite as cruel as ZORK! but the old text adventure games were a pain in the butt. Maybe I should have refereed to it as a 'computer game' instead of 'video game' because while video game is the present common terminology, you've got a point that the lack of any video element to those old text prompt games makes it a bit inaccurate. But I had to say SOMETHING to denote that it was from the old game, because that wasn't an element from either the original book or any OTHER adaptations thereof
Compare to other critical TH-cams on RoP S1 this actually made it worthwhile because in doing so your brilliant comments and excellent comments caused me to laugh out loud which sadly very few comedians on TV or films now can do, i.e. starting out with a dark screen, he is a metallurgist and needs to be told how to mix metals, the secret book exactly where they need to go, Shelob cameo, pyre on wooden docks.
This is what happens when you hire people who believe Tumblr is the highest of writing tiers and the CW shows are the cream of the crop. No real experience necessary, just tell us who you vote for what what you believe in, but make sure it adheres to our blatantly obviously narrow viewpoint! Ruination is the major theme for this show, and it's not from the show itself.
Frodo:" I wish none of this had ever happened" Gandalf : So do all who live to see such times. All we have to decide is, what to do with the time we'll save by not watching any more of this 'Rings of Power' crap. "
The lady Sauron ingests, to re-solidify his body, just so happened to be driving a wagon. Meaning there was a decent wagon road leading right by the fortress Sauron slithered from. The very same fortress that Galadriel and Co. had to epically climb cliffs of ice flows and death defyingly weather a wicked storm to gain access to. Ends up they could've simply taken carriages there! 🤣 I fell asleep somewhere in the third episode, only to briefly wake up and see an Eagle in the doorway of the Numenor Palisade....for reasons...then fell back to sleep. Really quite trippy.
You know, I prefer seeing Galadriel not looking like she's passing a kidney atone, and the actress is very comely...but what she isn't, is statuesque and elegant and elven.
Galadriel is been alive since before the dead of the two trees of Valinor, she's way older and wiser than Elrond, but somehow the writers though it would be ok to portray her as an angry, hormonal teenager
Methinks it's partly because 1) they cannot conceive of a being as impressive and beyond base flighty feels shit as real canon Galadriel, it's actually beyond their ability to imagine, and partly 2) they can't imagine the audience relating to/imprinting on a girl that doesn't act like she's a 2010s highschooler/twenty-something in a melodrama shipping show.
It's kind of obvious that they have never read the original books, especially The Silmarillion. So, when boomers started complaining 20 years ago that kids were not reading and educating themselves, they were told to STFU. This is what you get when your show runner heard about a movie they never bothered to watch and then based their new show about that old show on what they saw on reddit.
I'm not ragging on the actor when I say this, but 16:06 - 16:08 is one of those moments where you wonder how something so expensive can look so cheaply made. Idk what those lines are on his cheeks under his eyes, if his skin is a little puffy from lack of sleep or if they're like indentation-irritation like from incorrectly-sized glasses. But it tells me that either the makeup team or the cgi dept. didn't go hard enough. Maybe they weren't given enough time? But seeing that on a supposedly immortal uncanny valley-level gorgeous ever youthful / healthy / flawless elf is immersion-breaking. If LotR's team could work around John Rhys-Davies's skin's terrible reaction to his face makeup (info from a bts clip), then something could've been done here.
@@gregowen2022I literally suffered through the seasons of Star Trek: Discovery, just because it was supposed to be Star Trek! Then it might be good for at least a few minutes, right? Then came the first episode of the final season... I couldn't stand even 5 minutes of it. Turned it off in disgust and literally grimaced and turned away from the TV.
I heard somewhere that the single wave hitting Cirdan can be interpreted as Ulmo stopping him from throwing the rings. Also, Why does Celebrimbor look older than Galadriel? Isn't she his distant aunt in a way? Born thousands of years before Celebrimbor's birth. Since he's curufin's son and Feanor's only grandson. I watched season 1 when it aired but didn't notice it then because the show slowed my mind and my ability to think straight.
Because they don't know how to design elves. All elves except VERY young elves look the same age, because they don't age beyond a certain point (obviously elf children do exist, but they're pretty rare).
@@MumRah Amazon is actually turning profit nowadays (for 20 years amazon actually lost money) which resulted into no taxes, because losses can be used as tax write offs. Now amazon actually has to generate losses from somewhere so it doesnt have to pay federal taxes on the profits its making. Because jeffery bezos wants to evade taxes as much as possible.
It's baffling that there are several fan films WAY better than any shot of this series... I liked The Hunt for Gollum. It's not perfect, but it has a ton of heart, which RoP definitely doesn't.
This is third review I've watched in which the reviewer has said something to the effect of "despite watching 'She-Hulk,' 'The Acolyte,' etc., watching *this* show was so boring and unpleasant that I had to force myself to get through it in a way I've never had to do before."
If you read the actual source material of "Lord Of The Rings", what Sauron is supposed to represent is pure evil in physical form. So giving him a backstory of a sympathetic character just doesn't really make any sense. Unless, of course, you completely ignore the source material and instead produce a movie series purely designed to make money. We already had a character who was originally good, but was corrupted by The Ring (Gollum). We don't need another one. This is, in every way, an anti-Lord Of The Rings movie. Edit: oh, sorry, my bad. Morgoth was pure evil and Sauron was made in his image, so I guess he's not pure evil, he's only 9.9/10 evil.
I mean, I'm not a Tolkien expert by any means, but it always was my impression that Sauron and even Melkor started out good and corrupted over time because of their selfish ambitions. And I do believe Sauron did have a chance at redemption once that he decided to throw away and become the new Dark Lord instead?
@@dancedancelauren I think a lot of the books represent a kind of metaphor for the contrasts between good and evil and light and dark, and Sauron is supposed to represent darkness, and then Eru is supposed to represent light. That's just my personal theory, anyway. I dunno, though, maybe you're right. After all, it's a piece of art; so ultimately, it's up for interpretation. Either way, "The Rings Of Power" is a completely bastardization of the source material. Like, making one of the Orcs a family man who worries about his son, and making Galadriel a bad guy? lol.
@Hollyucinogen Ultimately I think you're right about Tolkien and good/evil, light/dark. Actually the evil just being a corruption of what's good still fits, particularly in light of Tolkien's catholicism. Regardless, yes. ROP doesn't even handle the "corruption of what's good" correctly so it's terrible Tolkien.
@@dancedancelauren Morgoth is a creature of elemental destruction. That is literally his role in the cosmology, destruction and discord. There was never anything 'good' about him Sauron was also never quite 'good', He served an Valar that opposed Morgoth at first, but Sauron's nature was always one of ambition and corruption And remember, these are NOT humans. They do not have the capacity for change and growth one would assume of a human, they are elemental creatures, part of the foundations of the universe. Their nature is eternal, unchanging. Which is why you know the writers of this show have never actually read Tolkien's work if THIS is what they came up with....
I watched the entirety of season 1 as it aired, purely so I could say for a certainty whether it was shit or not. (It was.) I watched episode 1 of season 2, and that was all the confirmation I needed that nothing had improved.
Galadriel : "You've not seen what I've seen" Me : "I've seen 2½ episodes of the first season" Galadriel : "You've not seen what I've seen." Me : "Yeah, Rrrrright"
i find it hilarious this show is slowly becoming a uniting force that everyone is shitting on and calling out. almost like an evil entity who's only purpose is to corrupt and destroy.
At least in fiction, sometimes "they're JUST the bad guys" is nice and amost "freeing". It might be too simplistic for a stripped down, character driven drama trying to win Academy Awards, but for big, sprawling action-adventure epics etc, some good old "good versus evil" works well. In LoTR, Sauron is bascially just the Devil, and the rest of the world is so well realized and engaging that you don't care about "why" he's evil.
I think the key here, to know what the writer’s are actually trying to say, you just have to replace words with other words, then you see the “ideology” they are really championing. For instance, when they same “no one can tell you what your name is”, just replace “Name” with “Gender” in that conversation and it will probably sound a lot more familiar to you.
Only you can see that...because that is what you want to see....Human beings have forever struggled with identity crises....gender identity is just one of them...but since you are a bigot you have jumped to conclusions to justify your hatefulness...I pity you
I'm betting the people allowing this are holding massive short positions against Amazon. That or they are waiting to buy it when it finally hits rock bottom.
As a Lord of the Rings fan, I am mildly astounded at the law of diminishing returns with regards to live action. LoTR movies were near excellent (yes, they took some liberties), The Hobbit trilogy was ok (maybe two movies from The Hobbit source material but not three), RoP is unwatchable (not just due to poor lighting).
Nailed it!! ❤ Also I watch with VLC and use the 10s button a lot while watching RoP. Then again I only watched the first 3 eps so I could understand the YT reviews, now I am done! haha! Their quality of profound quotes are genius. You should write them out if you see them they are Legend!
YES! I had to watch parts of this at 1.8x, I timed a few of the scenes, sometimes they will hold on a face or scene for 10-15 seconds, just to be C I N E M A T I C
There's just something about watching you slowly lose your mind over the course of 20 minutes. Thanks for taking one for the team, Greg. Never stop making great videos ❤️
You can flesh our a villian's history in a way that really adds to the story. Robert Jordan did it very well with the Forsaken in Wheel of Time. But primarily through POV sections and it was never really in doubt they were still evil (excepting maybe Lanfear). Modern shows rely on using modern politics to excuse their actions and decisions and it doesn't work..
I mean... Sauron does have a story, he started out as a Maia learning under Aule loving order and tried to bring order to things to his craft. When he got corrupted he turned that wish to bring order to things into a wish to bring (his) order to the world, cause he is the only one capable of doing that. For LotR its better to keep that part out as it would overcomplicate things and the movies are good with the bbg thats to mighty to understand kind of thing, but if you wanted to give him something thats a point you could start.
I think the conflicted back story trope has been warped at this point. I think it caught on because when it started rising in popularity it was used to highlight the whole "if not for the choices we make" to differentiate between the hero and villain and instead has mutated into weak attempts at excusing villainous behavior. A hard life doesn't excuse stealing, abuse, or murder. A hero rises above it to become good, a villain embraces it to become evil, and a murder hobo uses it as an excuse to avoid consequences.
Fully agree. It CAN be interesting, but modern lazy writers have now defaulted to "something bad happened to this character once, so they are not so bad, now, right?"
HA! Leave it to me to remember to bring back the 'What's In The Cup' segment to get some of those sweet affiliate residuals while bashing an Amazon show. So I cut it from the video, because it sounds dumb here. BUT if you do shop there anyway, use my link below and I get, I don't know, probably 2% of what you buy. The things in my storefront are things I have purchased and use. amzn.to/3IBDg5r
"Throw the Ole Manskin around!"
How are you enjoying the Sillmarillian right now?
@@SilverDragoon7395 Getting back to it now. I stopped after Valaquenta because I thought I could make better jokes if I wasn't angry about the broken lore and themes, lol
@@gregowen2022 If I could point something out. I get the criticism that making the Orks seem more human is stupid. But if I may there is a nuance that I feel gets lost if you are not generally familiar with the lore. The tragedy of the Orks is the fact that while they were once men or elves and have been twisted to such an extent that they can only be cruel and vile. Yet you do see the occasional shred of an inkling of humanity ie in the books they are able to sing songs and form communities to an existent. They often have to take pieces of civilization from others because they can't make their own. They're like intelligent zombies in a way. I say all of that to say they threw out all of that nuanced and replaced it with, "SeE thEy HavE fAmILiEs tOo." Lazy.
@@SilverDragoon7395 That would have been nice to show. They sound like the Kolos from the Mistborn books, which was a cool twist in that one. It added depth, but they were still monsters
This show reminds me of my parents in the years leading up to them getting a divorce. No one communicates, everyone is ready to be mad at each other and I started drinking and doing drugs.
HAHAHAHA. Galadriel and Sauron are fighting and we are singing 'Stay Together For The Kids' by Blink 182
Wh0a dude 😂
I hope things are going better for you now.
Your comment makes no sense and perfect sense at the same time. 👌
@@gregowen2022 LOL. I couldn't remember which band wrote that song. I'm glad it was you that got the joke.
You missed Galadriel’s “nose crinkle” that shows she’s an angry girl, yes she is, she’s an angry girl.
@@TheStacanova 2014: Angry Birds (broke)
2024: Angry Galadriel (woke)
"Henceforth I will call nothing 'angry,' unless it be her gift to me...
I asked for one crinkle from her pointy nose.
She gave me three."
Whenever modern writers talk about writing complex characters it reminds me of when my brother would talk about building a project car but has never changed his own oil. Difference is that deep down my brother knows he's full of shit
And he's not asking you to drive the fictional car.
@@Blodhelm And making you pay for building it too
The one thing I'll give them is that in the Silmarillion, Sauron did actually attempt to have a redemption arc at the start of the 2nd age. But the reason for his failure to redeem himself has nothing to do with life happening or people or Orcs betraying him like the show tries to do. He failed to turn good entirely because of his own personal failings. Sauron feared the judgment of the Valar, so he refused to go to Valinor and risk their punishment for his actions when he served Morgoth. Had he gone to Valinor, he might have learned a level of humility by being among beings who were either his equals or much more powerful than him. Instead, because of his fear, he stayed in Middle Earth, the place where he was now the most powerful being. So his pride grew unchecked until he became another Dark Lord like Morgoth. He's entirely to blame for his fall back into evil.
Whoa, I didn't know this, but doesn't it sound like what they did to GALADRIEL in Season 1? Like, she was too proud and revenge-driven to return to Valinor? It makes me wonder if the decision to make her super flawed was actually intentional as opposed to just accidental Girlboss writing now.
@@Sidera17 If an Elf remained in Middle Earth after the defeat of Morgoth and the start of the Second Age, it was because they refused the call to return to Valinor. This applies to every Elf, Galadriel, Gil Galed, Elrdon, and all those they led. It was less about pride and vengeance and more about the fact that they developed a strong attachment to Middle Earth after spending hundreds of years fighting and dying to defend it.
The thing about Galadriel is that she has a lot of pride and power, but she has the wisdom not to use that power or act on that pride, and even in her youth she rejected those Elves who did not, like her refusal of all of Feanor's 3 requests for a strand of her hair to help him when he was forging the Simarils. She sensed in him all the negative qualities her show counterpart has.
Feanor and all the High Elves who let their pride and desire for vengeance guide them led the Elves to disaster and were ultimately killed throughout the First Age, so any High Elf with the qualities Galadriel displays in the show would be dead by the time the show starts. That's part of the reason the High Elves seem so wise in LOTR. Not only have they been around forever, but those who acted like Amazon Galadriel removed themselves from the gene pool 2 ages earlier while those who were not so rash survived through the War of the Ring.
@@garywillig5143
It's definitely portrayed as pride and the desire for kingdoms of their own. Being in middle Earth where they are the most powerful and important creatures is a sign of attachment-- to things like ego, reputation, personal advancement.
Elves are supposed to be in Arnor, that's why the journey back home is so significant and portrayed as elves maturing-- this is why the vanyar who remained in Arnor are the wisest and most powerful and the ones who settled middle Earth to begin were motivated by personal conquest and glory like feanor
@@garywillig5143 Oh wow, thanks for this backstory. I'm mainly a fan from the books and the movies, so I don't know the lore previously. It contextualizes even more how Galadriel's character was messed up. Even the other elves in this season making decisions the weird way they do, especially Celebrimbor. He just got corrupted in one scene.
Plus, in Valinor he would have been under the influence of the Valar, which could have had a positive effect on him. After all, Sauron became what he became because of Morgoth's influence during the song of creation.
Thanks for taking one for the Team!
the pop culture hero we need
It borders on the Heroic for sure!
@@mihaiserafim Seriously, watching this show is worse than dropping soap in prison!
✌ I should also add a clown emote as this show seems to be made by them. Thanks to Greg Indeed for putting up with it all
I'm from Barcelona, and I can give credit that they sound 100 times more like pirates than we do
Me too.
It makes me sad to know that international audiences are watching this. It's almost like the entire thing is a psy-op to make the world think Tolkien's work is bad.
Sauron, right hand man of the literal devil, lord of darkness, bringer of ruin to the world. Monster of unimaginable power who corrupted the elves and turned them into monsters.
Is simply misunderstood 😅
Of all the villains to retcon, they chose a guy who hasn't just made bad choices, he's an ancient being of evil. Astounding choice
Germans: "Wait for it, chances are good, its going to happen"
The more I learn about this show the clearer it becomes that they had absolutely no interest in making one of Tolkien's stories.
This is their story. Them trying to "humanize" the mythological incarnation of evil on earth who is very specifically and deliberately NOT HUMAN shows exactly how little they understand his work. It's like deciding to make a movie of the Bible and being like "What if we make Satan the good guy?" You havn't just messed up your Bible movie, you don't know what the Bible is.
Saurrrrron is the epitome of evil. End of. But I think the whole concept of “misunderstood villain” became very popular by Anime especially at the point when the bad guy is about to take his last breath.
May this be the last breath of this type of stupid and mindless “adaptation”. The good thing is that the show runners will never get a decent job again (I hope even if it’s a fool’s hope).
I continue to be amazed at how dark everything is these days. Not dark as in "that's a pretty dark story", but dark as in "holy crap I can't see anything". Is nobody calibrating their monitors to any kind of standard in the editing department?
Maybe, it’s your TV that needs calibration…
They really aren't, it's wild. I tried watching some of this on my phone with the brightness at max, and the screen was still almost black
@@dstarling61Or your wetware.
They know, its cheaper when theres nothing to show in the background. Somehow it makes the show's cost even worse
Is it not just because every show is made for HDR TVs. And still the majority of TVs are to old to have HDR support.
My Philips 70" TV claims to have HDR support, but there is no hardware that support it. It has just recived some software update that change the brightness and contrast when HDR content is displayed.
Dude, the scene with the loving Orc father not wanting to leave his family and go off to war, was legit the most cringe fucking thing I have seen in my life that seriously, it was like an attempting to build sympathy for Ted Bundy.
After he's like, 30 kills in.
I can't believe that got approved. Just.... HOW?!
The funniest part of this is that there's a scene like this when Sam is sneaking around after taking the ring from Frodo when he got poisoned. But the orcs want to escape from the war to make a brigand band and rob people, not fucking raise a peaceful family.
@@gregowen2022 easily they don't care about the lord
"They were all necessary to feed his family, not his fault he's a predator"
We used to have stories like Little Red Riding Hood, teaching us to beware the wolf in granny's clothing..
@@gregowen2022its literally just the joke from Austin powers but players straight
It'd mind boggling to me.
The Acolyte's premise is "Let's tell this story from the Sith point of view during the period they're just starting to re-emerge and working in the shadows during the Jedi's height." Alright, badass. People love villains. Everyone loves Darth Vader, they thought Darth Maul was cool. People love Joker and there's absolutely nothing redeeming about him. A Sith focused story of the bad guys doing bad things could be great. And then........ nah, let's toy with the notion the Jedi are bad and the Sith just want freedom from dogma. WTF?
Rings of Power gives us the chance to actually play with the devil of Middle-Earth. We can see why he's "The Deceiver" and how his cunning and guile in pursuit of his own power, his aspirations of grandeur to do that which even Morgoth could not......... nah, he was actually not wanting to be bad, it was just circumstances that he couldn't escape from. W T F?!
And the new one coming up - Tomb Raider. Hollywood demands we accept cold, calculating, badass girlbosses, so this one should be pretty easy to adapt properly since Lara is the original "mad, bad, and dangerous to know" badass girlboss if there ever was one -- we're going to make her soften up and be more thoughtful and mindful and caring to others. W....T.....FFFFFFFFF?!
No one can give you a name, said Gandalf...Mithrandir... Tharkûn... Incánus... none of which are his actual name, but the many he's given and goes by through his time in Middle-Earth.
COMPLETELY unrelated tangent,, but your comment of not orating as a king all the time hits on something that drives me nuts in dang near every Batman adaptation in both film and animation.
Is Bruce only able to be Batman through method acting? If he has the cowl on, is he incapable of breaking character? Because it drives me nuts we'll have these actors putting on a different voice as Bruce versus the performance voice of Batman. You see him as Bruce in public and he talks one way. You see him interrogating someone as Batman and he talks another way. You see him talking to Robin and Alfred in the manor and he talks like Bruce. You see him in the cave at the computer talking to Alfred with the cowl on and.....he talks like Batman.
You're alone. In the cave. With Alfred. He already knows you're Bruce. Why are you using the Batman persona?! Drives me nuts.
It makes sense from their perspective: communist are diabolically evil by every standard of morality known to man but the producers of these shows are communist.
How do you get the public to swallow the evil they intend to inflict upon the world in November????
Make shows where genocidal maniacs and monsters are misunderstood and those who fight them are oppressive police officers making life hard for Satan.
This is How they're going to make Kamala palatable...
Except it didn't work and now we're all bigots for choosing God over the devil
100%. Why these people think flipping expectations is so clever is beyond me. Seeing HOW Sauron deceived would be so cool. Even his deception in this show is terrible. He tries to get on the dwarf's side by flattering him, which he does see through, but is still convinced to take the ring idea to his dad anyway! That's not Sauron's masterful treachery, that's dumb luck!
I have long thought that this is the show’s original sin. Sauron was present for all the major second age events (the rings, numenor, last alliance, etc.) Why turn the most important character into an (easily solved) mystery box? He should have been the protagonist.
@@gregowen2022 It feels like this is all they can do when trying to add more to a story that's already been told well with a clear beginning, middle, and end.
It also feels like because people irl want to be empathetic towards others, they apply the same thing to fictional characters, and I guess for some liking a villain is easier when they seem more redeemable or sympathetic.
Even though as the commentor brought up people love characters like Darth Vader, Darth Maul, and the Joker while acknowledging that they are irredeemable villains (with Vader as an exception). Moreover, people prefer the "evil to be evil" Disney villains more than the Disney villains that are supposedly more complex 🤔.
@Ninjafox To answer your question about Batman. Usually the idea is that Batman is the real person and Bruce Wayne is the facades.
I.E. as Bruce Wayne he plays up the fact that he's a billionaire playboy with charisma and charm. However, his true persona is Batman and he becomes that when putting on the cape and cowl.
BTAS captures this well. Where Kevin Conroy r.i.p., gives Batman a more growly or deeper voice and gives Bruce a more lighter and friendly sounding voice 🤔.
Their idea to make Sauron a tragic and sympathetic villain was the worst mistake they could have possibly made from a narrative perspective.
I feel like one of the main reasons they did this was to develop a tragic Enemies to Lovers between him and Galadriel, and we're going to see the two of them constantly conflicted when encountering each other. But it ruins who the characters are supposed to be.
I could even buy seeing Sauron be a "seducer" of people in all senses of the word, including false love and physical seduction, because he represents manipulative evil and temptation. But actually forming emotional attachments to other characters? Noooooo.
@@Sidera17 Sauron always had this "seduction" element to him, but him actually caring for someone feels wrong. He could lust for Galadriel, but loving her is out of the question
@@Sidera17 I think it may have worked if they used a woman to develop this idea.
But Elves were completely repulsed by Sauron, and far less affected by emotional manipulation. They chased beauty in nature and craft, which is why Celebrimbor was deceived. It had nothing to do with personal attachment.
But Galadriel forming an emotional bond with a random stranger? That's beyond ridiculous.
Even worse, in the series Galadriel thinks Celeborn was killed by Sauron. How tf would she be conflicted about how she feels? It makes no sense.
If you get the impression that he is nice, it means you got got.
It's what he does, he appears in "fair form" to charm and deceive people
Remember when the Peter Jackson trilogy showed Sauron on screen a grand total of twice for about 4.5 seconds in the first 10 minutes of a 12 hour trilogy and it went perfectly because Sauron isn't supposed to be humanized he's supposed to be evil incarnate? Yeah that was great.
Morality in Hollywood has become boiled down to a single dimension Oppressed Oppressor. Though, even calling it “morality” gives it too much credit.
100% on the money. There is a direct line all the way back to Marx, who viewed the world that way, as class warfare. His ideas persist, and now here we are with family-man orcs, and a Sauron that isn't such a bad guy
@@gregowen2022 This makes sense, but tbh pipeline from The Capital to Orc nuclear families is a ridiculously funny notion 🤣🤣🤣
@@kostantza1 I wonder what he'd say if someone could go back and tell him this is the future. Corporations parrot his ideas to sell subscriptions, and we have a sympathetic Satan.
@@gregowen2022 I want to believe if he could see the future he'd still be reeling from the crimes against humanity commited in the name of his ideology and the corporate appropriation of this same ideology would just be the final nail in the coffin. Then again, he was kind of a douche, so idk what would vex him more 😅
@@gregowen2022You could actually pin this on Antonio Gramsci, who proposed the idea of cultural hegemony in which socialists should adopt an oppressive system and gradually change it over time to where a pro-socialist culture becomes the new dominant culture. Many professors picked this idea up and used it as a stepping stone to change the western world towards their new establishment
In the book, Galadriel was the only one who didn't fall for Annatar's charms and gifts, and tried to warn others about his true intentions In ROP, not only was she fooled by Halbrand, but kept to herself that SAURON was walking amongst Elves, and Gil-Galad (their king) had to basically beg her to say who Halbrand really was.
That’s incorrect. Galadriel wasn’t the only one. In the Silmarillion, Elrond and Gil-Galad also didn’t trust Annatar. Celebrimbor was the only prominent Elf who was willing to listen to Annatar’s sales pitch.
Here's the _actual_ backstory for the Orcs:
They're monsters. If they don't have something to kill they will find something to kill. They were created specifically to be servants for Morgoth and Sauron and only they can scare them enough to reign them in. There were attempts to turn them civilized and they all failed. FFS they _ate_ eachother in the LotR trilogy.
They are also coded as non white and non European, their fundamental design bothered even Tolkien. There is plenty to hate on here, but trying to fix the orc, trying to give them moral agency is not one of them
They were once elves, but were tortured and corrupted into monsters. "Evil can only corrupt, not create."
No bro they just want to live in peace with their orc wives and orc babies
The kicker is writers have written original stories where non Tolkien Orcs are a normal and at times heroic race. You can't do that in LOTR.
@@Blodhelmthe Uruk hai were once Elves, not Orc Maggots 😂
J.D. Payne is a Mormon only because he misspelled "moron" on his resume.
Holy crap. You are SPOT ON with the psychological analysis of what motivates these people to continually create sympathetic villains and write morally relativistic stories. SPOT ON. People in Hollywood have very, VERY strange morals.
"this thing bores so hard, I'm pretty sure it's trying to take over ba sing se"
This burn was so sharp, it could sink a ship and leave everyone to drown.
because,, it's so sharp
That's good
Except ships don't sink. Rocks sink.
@@tearsofthewillowtree1803 they do if you hit them with enough rocks.
That’s rough, buddy
"Everyone is an idiot. That's the only way this season happens." You summarized both seasons pretty well right there.
Then, "Can't get distracted by dumb stuff. The writers didn't care. I shouldn't either." Ha!
haha, I accidentally included the writer's room in my description, as well
""Everyone is an idiot"
That´s the premise of most media today. I think it´s because the writers write what they know. You can´t write someone more intelligent than you
The second season contradicts the first one about everything that has to do with Sauron. In the first season Galadriel says that after Morgoth's fall, Sauron took over. The second seasons shows Sauron as some unpopular politician who got overthrown by some oppressed orcs with morals who just want to live their lives and raise their kids. Galadriel said Sauron raged war and got her brother killed, but if he didn't control the orcs who were dissatisfied, how was her brother killed by him? This show is a joke. I watched the first season, hated it, and no way am I watching the second one.
Well said. Not only do these atrocious writers not know Tolkiens work, they don’t even know their own!!! 😂
Those are excellent points! I didn't even notice that part, but yes! This is what happens when you try to pull a switcheroo on the audience because you think it's cool
The books do say orcs procreated like elves, but I find it hard to believe they would have family lives as depicted in the show. It would probably be more along the lines of popping out a few kids and letting them work it out themselves on day 1. If you're weak, you die, if not, we'll see you on the battlefield.
LOTR fans in the 90s: we can't wait for the movie adaption
LOTR fans now: Oh no, another season of Rings of Power, please stop for God's sake
Gotta love the irony of a RoP Amazon Prime ad to kick the video off 😂
I thought my phone was broken for a second there. 😂
If they are handing out millions to these showrunners, they can pay me too!
It's either RoP or Temu. Roll the dice.
Why is Sauron the big feared villain if he never had power?
@@jeffzimmer2433 the temu ads are endless
As someone who RoP has gotten to be more active in the Tolkien fandom again - for better or worse - I've noticed that when it comes to RoP, there are basically three camps. In the first camp are the people who are fans of LOTR but never got into RoP, never cared about it in the first place / only barely knew it existed. Then, predictably, in camps two and three there are the stans and the antis. Something I just can't really wrap my head around in coming across comments written by stans of the show is their absurdity. "This show is perfect and I could not ask for anything more of an adaptation" is not an out-of-place comment in those circles. Often, these are delivered with what I imagine to be the spiteful affectation of someone who wants to stick it to the haters so much that they decide to go all-out in the opposite direction. Meanwhile, they're going to such lengths to protect the honor of a blockbuster Amazon TV show that funded its money off the backs of Amazon warehouse workers who aren't even allowed proper toilet breaks.
Yeah, the defenses get so hyperbolic and that's the thing I can't respect. There are plenty of unpopular things that I like, and I understand the critiques of them, yet continue to like them. I don't pretend they are perfect, because that's trying too hard.
@@gregowen2022 In some sense, what we're seeing is a rather common phenomenon in fandoms: the stans vs. the antis. Just that here it's really a lot more polarized and nastier than the usual "this character is actually evil / this character should not be redeemed" discourse. The antis camp is one foot in the online outrage clickbait industry and apparently the stans camp is one foot in an Amazon cult. A lot of the reasonable comments about RoP that I've seen tend to come from people who don't have much to do with these online fandom wars.
@@gregowen2022 "The defenses get so hyperbolic". What about the offense? You're saying the same shit as everyone else making this "RoP is so bad" content. You literally say nothing new. Which is fine. I watched your video, but with the overwhelmingly negative review videos out there you are the one being hyperbolic with your opinions here. I do not share your opinions of the show, but I guess I am just going at it as "Give me a pretty fantasy not full of torture pourn like GoT or HoD and let me escape for a bit." I'm not part of the Tolkien religion to the point that I am upset about cultural appropriation of dwarfs and elves. I save that for show's like Bridgerton (my wifes show) that deserve it. Also, everyone is on a redemption arc for Sauron. He never showed signs of redemption, he just learned of a distant land that might be easier to conquer and a potential army he could raise to take back what he perceived he lost. His "free my people" this was another manipulation from the great deceiver. I digress though, I like the show for what I see it as. Mindless escape into a pretty fantasy world. Not an offense to my religion like some of you voices make it out to be. Opinions differ.
@@99-221 I am not into Tolkien religion. And I also like to mindlessly go into stupid simple shows to be able to escape my stressful sometimes fucked life!
But man oh man ... Emily in Paris for ex never sold itself like a masterpiece! Bridgeton never told is like the original story just better. Also, at least their main woman characters are fucking likeable!
I liked the Witcher well enough through all the butchering until Cavill left!
And so on...
This is about the high expectations they knowingly brought! Also LOTR in itself is a very respectable story and world. If you ever read it you will understand it is a pity to butcher it. Just for the grandeur and profoundess of it
So they embarked in making a show about a grand world from a grand book that has many followers and many people in love with that world and proceeded to shit on it!
It's ... at least it gives you a sour taste in the mouth! It ain't about being dark or white or gay or straight or anything in between! I never have any issues with that! But just make it logical, make it make sense ... have some fucking modicum of respect for the source material and what the OG writer wanted to share.
Also as a last ideea ... I dislike when these people think they are better than the original writer of a source material! If you are sooo much better and good, make your own stories! Why trample on cadavers? Aaaaah because that this were the money and fandom is??? The hypocrisy is through the roof! Oh we do not need the fans but please come pay for our products and when they don't they are bigots and racists
@@moon-moth1 I have seen what you are talking about in the comments sections to political articles. How especially in the past month they have all shifted sides and each comment sounds the same. I have not noticed it with this show because all I see is negative. If you are referring to me as an Amazon shill then no. I fact I’m not a fan of Amazon for how horrible “The Boys” season 4 was and if this was a video about that shitfest you would find no support from me. In fact, I find myself in a position of constant disagreement with people I usually agree with constantly. I am not being paid to be at odds. Maybe it’s all above my head and I’m just satisfied with the window dressing here. I’m fine with it. I do enjoy the show and I hope they do not cancel it.
I'm honestly tired of the moral ambiguity too. I mean, it works for Dirty Harry and Game of Thrones, but not everywhere. Some worlds are blue sky and some are grimdark. Tolkein was ALWAYS a blue sky writer. this, this is just wrong.
I think Rings of Power was never meant to be any good...
They hired 2 nobody's as showrunners/writers and spent tons of $ on special effects shots for a grand trailer in order to get...
Amazon Prime subscriptions
Its $1 billion Prime ad
I'm genuinely curious for view numbers to come out. I agree with your assessment, and I wonder if it's working for them
This was a Ross MacFarlan video
If so, it's the worst Prime Ad I have ever seen ...
It's all write-offs so Bezos can fuel his rockets.
They hired those writers because they are yes men. The real tolkien writers were kicked out because they didn't like the direction
I've grown to really dislike the whole sympathetic villain cliche that's become more widespread nowadays. Unless said villain hasn't killed anyone or has undone their wrongdoing, they don't deserve a second chance. I for one would never forgive a mass murderer, and I bet neither would any sane hero.
Yes. On the one hand, there are redeemable villains (who usually started out as idealistic heroes and then through traumatic events became cynical, nihilistic, jadfed or bent on evenge), and their redemption arc can be a lot of fun.
On the other hand, there are irredeemable psychopaths and sadists, who might be either
1. perfectly self-aware of what they are (the Joker, Mr. Teatime from Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels) but show such ruthlessness they can either cow people into obedience, or have enough charisma and smooth-talking to start a personality cult,
2. so egotistical and delusional that they believe _they_ are "the hero of their own story" (Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2), or simply bringing "order" to a chaotic universe (Darth Vader), or have a god complex so vast they think anything they do is justifiable in light of their grand mission and destiny (David from Prometheus and Alien: Covenant).
3. have gone completely insane so that they can find excuses and justifications for whatever monsterous things they do in their past pain, but they're unwilling to listen even to the people they claim to care about (Jinx from Arcane).
In 1971 John Gardner wrote a retelling of Beowulf from the perspective of Grendel, it's just called "Grendel."
That was the first and last time this trope was interesting or compelling.
As a Tolkien nerd for 30+ years it only takes 30sec of footage to know I ain't going near any of this crap. Any random 30sec clip is all it takes to know these people don't know what they hell they are doing.
You would have to travel a great distance to see new constellations-and you would have to travel South! In the East, the only difference is that you are in a different time zone. But it's fantasy, so real-world astronomy doesn't apply (and the shade of Tolkien, who spent considerable effort to make sure the moon phases were correct, shakes his head sadly). The stars aren't strange-but the writers certainly are!
It’s worse than that. Traveling to a different part of the world to see different constellations works because the Earth is round. But this series takes place during the Second Age, when the Earth is FLAT. It doesn’t become round until the destruction of Numenor and the beginning of the Third Age. On a flat Earth, you see exactly the same sky wherever you go. So The Stranger and his Harfoot sidekicks are on a futile quest. But of course the writers of the show don’t know that, because they’re ignorant of both Tolkien and astronomy.
Everyone thought the Pound Me Too movement exposing the dark side of Hollywood would bring a new age of accountability. Instead we got a new narrative where good and evil are subjective and evil-doers are really just misunderstood. Guess we forgot that the primary trait of a narcissist is they're NEVER wrong.
The _Seinfeld_ clip at 0:33 is a perfect summary of how I feel hearing about current year pop culture. And I don't even watch/read any of this rubbish myself. I can't imagine how soul-crushing it must be for reviewers like you, Gundam, Disparu, etc to actually sit down and watch entire episodes. Thank you for your sacrifice.
A book rec for you: _The Daughter of Time_ by Josephine Tey. It's a vintage murder mystery about one of history's greatest cold cases, that has a lot to say about spotting agendas, doing one's own research, and looking at evidence. It also questions whether a famous villain - Richard III, in this case - was really evil, by investigating whether the crime happened in the first place and whether he really had the character or motive to commit such a crime. Today's writers don't have the brain capacity for that, so they just argue that evil isn't evil. The book might be a nice palette cleanser after the crime against literature known as Throne of Glass.
DAMMIT! Now the TBR is even longer, because that does sound good.
Sadly, I really am reading some romantacy for video research. I'm interested in why those books are flying off the shelves, but visual media with those types of female leads fails.
Ooh, that does sound good. Adding it to my TBR pile too!! Thanks!!
@@gregowen2022 Which is crazy, given the price of books nowadays.
Well orcs are said to procreate like other races of middle earth (remember, they are basically mutilated elves) so technically there are orc children. Was it something the audience needed to see? No. Was it something Tolkien ever showed? No. The mud pits was a movie thing.
Source:
"For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar,"
- The Silmarillion, 'Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor'
Granted that this isn’t necessarily what Jackson & co. Intended, but I reconciled the mud pits with the books by them being strictly Saruman’s invention for making Uruk Orcs with magic, because he wanted an army NOW and didn’t have the time to make them “naturally”.
That might be true, I mean orc baby's, but they still are all cruel and thoughtless monster.
More like a rabid wolf. Not some misunderstood nobody who just wants to life his cozy life.
"Offspring was not reared at the will of the father, but was taken and carried to a place called Lesche by him, and there the elders of the tribes sitting, examined the infant. If it were sturdy and strong, they ordered it to be reared, and assigned to it one of the nine thousand lots of land; but if it were ill-born and deformed, they sent it to the so-called Apothetae, a chasm-like place at the foot of Mount Taygetus, considering that its life was not worth living for itself or of service to the state."
-"Life of Lycurgus," Plutarch, 2nd Century AD, describing Spartan customs. That's what real life human societies used to do. We're talking about ORCS right now.
Yes, criticising this show for lack of faithfulness to Tolkien's writing, while praising PJ's nonsensical inventions is a very stupid angle to approach this show from
I wonder if the writers have any idea that they are standing on the shoulders of a giant and instead of using the height to their advantage, they decide to take a poop and jump off.
Fantastic opening. You should be a director of photography for Amazon!
Probably the best my face has looked on camera in a while!
Especially the dark beginning. I really felt like was back in Winterfell.
There's the Black Forest. Good cake comes out of there and decent bacon too.
mmmmm, and gummy worms!
5:07 Despot of Antrim pointed out in his S1 review that Sauron's first appearance in episode 1 is also Moses-esque. There is no way this is an accident. They really do think this is clever.
It's sickening
I think a moral relavivism can work as a story structure, but bad writers think they are the first people to discover the concept and are obsessed with it.
Hi Greg. Mormon here. Just wanted to say “thanks for the shoutout” and also, we don’t claim that man. After what he did to LoTR, I’m pretty sure it’s an unforgivable sin.
Seconding this comment, in all ways.
Also, howdy, brother!
I just want to say as a former mormon, I also have come to believe the mormon's are on to something with this whole "disciplined lifestyle" thing. Turns out, after extensive research, I can report that hedonism leads to endless misery.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat 🤣🤣🤣
I've met a few people who claim the culture but deny the faith--which shouldn't be too surprising so many people do that with catholicism.
Even if that's not the case, I met plenty of active members who seemed to think about society from this morally neutral perspective--possibly just to fit in with their peers. And this wasn't just a couple people I met in college, it was the whole theatre and english departments of BYU. 😅
My point is, there's a lot of reasons J. D. Payne might write this way...even if I think it's unforgivable, too. 😂
Seeing different constellations from different locations should be impossible in Tolkien's pre-third-age world because Arda (the earth) was flat until the destruction of Numenor
Don't even get me started on all the many ways they've broken the timeline.
R.E. the "rings" question about 07:00 - the order is all wrong. Sauron (in the guise of the gift lord) teaches the secrets of ring-making to the elves, and it is under his guidance the 9 and the 7 are forged. It's only AFTER he leaves the elves does Celebrimbor forge the 3, while (if I remember correctly) Sauron then goes on to Numenor and starts corrupting them there.
And there's the whole "fair guise" thing that he loses the ability to do after the fall of Numenor, and it's only AFTER he forges the One Ring do the elves realise they have been deceived.
Genuinely, they should be sued for plagiarism it's so bad.
See, that makes the rings make more sense, or it would, if he had given them some secret technique. The first season was so crazy, he just suggested mixing metals, but gently. THAT'S NOT A MAGIC TECHNIQUE, AMAZON!
Not the keys & catnip! That literally made me laugh out loud. Thank you! 😂
They apparently want to turn Sauron into Walter White, including having a troll based on Mike. No, I'm not kidding.
"Cally, we gotta *forge*!"
Getting ready for non binary or gay Orcs next. 😂
The show is a commercial for Amazon. Now that you have a prime membership maybe you'll buy a ten pound bag of jalapeno powder or a power saw. That's it. The math says oncw you got the membership, you'll spend more money. Lord of the Rings is a brand recognizable enough to maximize the returns on such a business model. The show isn't important. That's why it costs a million dollars a minute without a single person you've heard being on screen. It's a commercial, not art, not entertainment, a commercial.
"Back to the books, back to the books" I'm convinced, at this point, was to use the pages for toilet paper after sh***ing out this irredeemable offense of a turd...
14:50 It seems he only went there to make a deal to get Adar to free the Southlanders, but that begs the question: if the only connection he has to the Southlands is that he took a thingy with the kingdom's royal crest on it from a random guy he met once, and then because of that Galadriel forced him to be king, but then he immediately ditched the place to go to Eregion, then WHY THE FREAK DOES HE CARE??? No one in this show has any motivations that make a fraction of an ounce of sense!
Not to mention when he teleported to Eregion he for some reason expected Celebrimbor to let him in even though he thought he'd know he was Sauron by then. Whatever.
"One of the writers, JD Payne, is a Mormon."
Ughhhhh. I didn't know this until you said it, and I am now filled with shame. As an ACTUAL Mormon, I would just like to say that he's not affiliated with us. As a Mormon who ACTUALLY KNOWS HOW TO WRITE, he's *especially* not affiliated with us. He has to go sit in a corner with Stephenie Meyer and think about what he's done.
...Actually, scratch that. Meyer, for as crappy as her writing is, at least *made money* with it. These drips can't even say that much. That's how bad this is! I need to think of a better banishment now.
Thanks for your content, Greg, always great to see a new video from you. And I know some great cocoa brands if you ever decide to take a break from the coffee. ;)
You can’t unclaim him if hes still on church records 🤷🏼♂️ he’s a member whether you agree with him or not.
6:13 - As a Mormon this seriously made me laugh so hard, thank you I needed that 😂
I've honestly thought the same thing myself about JD Payne
Personally, I think the single most infuriating thing about this show is that EVERY SINGLE LINE of dialogue is said as if it is some deep and grand insight - a quote from time immemorial. Even when the plot is just desperately begging to be moved forward though direct narrative and dialogue, the show will torture you with yet another banal scene full of Oscar Wilde quotes, grandiose music and lavish imagery, so you can "revel" in the beauty - nay - the MAJESTY of the moment. There is absolutely no sense of buildup and climax, it's a constant stream of epic-ness vomit, and you're supposed to be blown away by the sheer magnificence of every. Single. Fucking. Scene.
It's like they looked back on Galadriel's ultra cringy horse riding scene from season 1 and thought "That was so dope, man. Let's do a whole fucking season of that". The writers seriously can't climb out of their own ass even for a second. The entire thing is a huge eye roll. I honestly don't know why I subject myself to this.
I wanna see a story where the villain *seems* misunderstood at first but is ultimately revealed to be gaining the heroes' sympathy as a manipulation tactic
Actually, it's so much worse. In the actual legendarium, the only three rings of power that Sauron has no had in helping create was the three eleven rings. Those three were made without his knowledge. He has power over them because the elves used the techniques he taught them. He later became aware of them and claimed ownership over them (not possession though), but he didn't help make them. He helped with the other 15 rings or whatever it is. (I've not actually read most of the source material, but I've watched hours and hours of people explaining it and offering theories about this or that)
This show makes it seem like the those three rings are the only ones Sauron helped to create. That's how lost and off the mark the writers are.
To be fair with the spider, unless they called it Shelob, it could be just a random spider. In the lore Shelob was one of many children, and she has had her own children as well.
The evil forest is on the edge of town because the town is Ponyville, obviously.
Which is kinda funny bc even in MLP, they know that there are some villains who don’t even deserve redemption bc not once were they ever sorry or remorseful for their actions. Even all the bad shit Discord has done: he’s trying to change for the better. He’s willing to have all these challenges for Twilight and her friends to help train them to be the best they can be and is willing to put this idea that “friendship is magic” to the test
@@raggens I know! It says a lot when a TV show made for six year old girls makes more sense than a Star Wats show made for adults!
So Sauron is now Moses. The only good being that he submitted to in middle earth is Eonwe when he wanted to repent for his evil doings. Obviously Eonwe couldn’t forgive him, only the Valar could judge him. Other than that he wants to dominate, manipulate and subjugate all of middle earth. What is Amazon doing to one of the best villains in fiction.
“ You need that junk mail to distract the cleaner robot, otherwise it steals your babel fish.”
You really have been playing video games a long time.
you would quite literally be on the OTHER SIDE OF A PLANET to have constellations change shape....witch would be impossible as this world is not round yet, but instead like a floating island.....soooooo the only option then- either get to the top of the world and see a bit over the sides OR go to the sides of the continent and look down.......
_Somehow rings of power returned_
It was in the rainforest studying spiders with my mom right before she died.
Funny story what you suggested about making the rings without Sauron that’s what actually happened. The 3 elven rings were made last after the other 16. Celebrimbor made them himself without Annatar and they were the greatest of the rings. But they were still under the power of the one ring because they used Sauron’s method. But they were free to use them until the one ring was forged
Now see, THAT makes sense, and would have been cool. In this show, there is no secret technique taught to Celebrimbor, and the rings start doing evil things to their wearers IMMEDIATELY but no one seems to care. It's horrible
Even then the rings were safe to use unless Sauron actually possessed the one ring, which is why Galadriel was wearing hers during the movie trilogy. ( Since it was Frodo who had the ring at that time.)
love your work. Based on your communications talk, props to the DS9 ep where the main character realizes a communications blackout is super sketchy, and uses it to uncover the conspiracy.
From season one "Did they ever read Tolkiens work" now to season two, "Nope they definitely didn't read tolkiens work!"
Five seasons of this, just think of how bad Season FIVE will be!
Season five, "Tolkien rose from the dead to personally bludgeon everyone involved in making this shit with a copy of his work".
A serie or movie viewership depends on its quality. But a sequel depends on how good was the original. So I'm pretty curious how a series that ended with a shrinking audience will perfom with the general audience. Ok, at least Greg watched it so that means something, right ? XD
@@mattcollins3591Um according to what?
Because it’s not even on the top 10 for streaming shows right now according to nielson
I am curious to see the viewer numbers. My prediction is we'll see a fair amount this week, and a steep drop next week. Chalk it up to morbid curiosity as to whether anyone involved listened to the complaints from season 1
@@mattcollins3591 I mean idoes well amazing for them XD.However I will wait for the viewership ratings released by independent parties before quoting it as a success story ;).
Amazon already knows how it's gonna perform, which is why they dropped 3 episodes all at one
You're gonna hear the usual bobbleheads talking triumphantly about the 'minutes watched' for the premiere, then you'll hear nothing for 2 months until we find out half the audience bailed by the finale.... but because the series is going to be rushed out in 5 weeks instead of 8, the drop off won't look so bad because there literally will not be time for the ratings to hit rock bottom.
when you actually understand the twisted corporate logic in play, it's actually kind of funny how much Amazon is admitting with the release schedule. they knew this season was fucked long before we did.
@@mattcollins3591 'it doubled it's audience score'.... on a site that everybody knows will put that score at whatever the studio pays them to put it at
"it's no.1 world wide'.... according to the company who made it and didn't give us any actual explanation as to what they're basing that on...
yeeeeah, got anything of value to say here, friend?
+1 for the Hitchhiker game reference. Also, it is the epitome of twisting logic on its ear to move forward with the plot. Much like this show.
Was that a Hitchiker's Guide (video game) reference? That's a deep cut
Text adventure game. No video, just words on the screen. But yes, that’s the reference.
@@MundaneGray Believe me, I not only know that, I actually played it for a bit as a kid. Wasn't quite as cruel as ZORK! but the old text adventure games were a pain in the butt.
Maybe I should have refereed to it as a 'computer game' instead of 'video game' because while video game is the present common terminology, you've got a point that the lack of any video element to those old text prompt games makes it a bit inaccurate.
But I had to say SOMETHING to denote that it was from the old game, because that wasn't an element from either the original book or any OTHER adaptations thereof
Compare to other critical TH-cams on RoP S1 this actually made it worthwhile because in doing so your brilliant comments and excellent comments caused me to laugh out loud which sadly very few comedians on TV or films now can do, i.e. starting out with a dark screen, he is a metallurgist and needs to be told how to mix metals, the secret book exactly where they need to go, Shelob cameo, pyre on wooden docks.
This is what happens when you hire people who believe Tumblr is the highest of writing tiers and the CW shows are the cream of the crop. No real experience necessary, just tell us who you vote for what what you believe in, but make sure it adheres to our blatantly obviously narrow viewpoint!
Ruination is the major theme for this show, and it's not from the show itself.
Frodo:" I wish none of this had ever happened"
Gandalf : So do all who live to see such times. All we have to decide is, what to do with the time we'll save by not watching any more of this 'Rings of Power' crap. "
“Bad guys good,” is so tired it might as well be called “Me, at my age, after having had more than one beer the night before.”
HAHAHAHA. "Me, after one (1) flight of stairs"
The lady Sauron ingests, to re-solidify his body, just so happened to be driving a wagon. Meaning there was a decent wagon road leading right by the fortress Sauron slithered from. The very same fortress that Galadriel and Co. had to epically climb cliffs of ice flows and death defyingly weather a wicked storm to gain access to. Ends up they could've simply taken carriages there! 🤣
I fell asleep somewhere in the third episode, only to briefly wake up and see an Eagle in the doorway of the Numenor Palisade....for reasons...then fell back to sleep. Really quite trippy.
You know, I prefer seeing Galadriel not looking like she's passing a kidney atone, and the actress is very comely...but what she isn't, is statuesque and elegant and elven.
Spaghetti Sauron was not on my bingo card for season 2, not gonna lie. Props to the show runners for that surprise out of left field, I guess?
13:03 You are a man of culture, Greg.
I had the same thought! Kind of YT to let me know you already shared it.
@@davidphilips4736 haha awesome :)
The Shadow of Games did a better job at getting me to feel sorry for the Orcs
Galadriel is been alive since before the dead of the two trees of Valinor, she's way older and wiser than Elrond, but somehow the writers though it would be ok to portray her as an angry, hormonal teenager
Methinks it's partly because 1) they cannot conceive of a being as impressive and beyond base flighty feels shit as real canon Galadriel, it's actually beyond their ability to imagine, and partly 2) they can't imagine the audience relating to/imprinting on a girl that doesn't act like she's a 2010s highschooler/twenty-something in a melodrama shipping show.
She's actually Elrond's Mother-in-Law and also great aunt
It's kind of obvious that they have never read the original books, especially The Silmarillion. So, when boomers started complaining 20 years ago that kids were not reading and educating themselves, they were told to STFU. This is what you get when your show runner heard about a movie they never bothered to watch and then based their new show about that old show on what they saw on reddit.
I'm not ragging on the actor when I say this, but 16:06 - 16:08 is one of those moments where you wonder how something so expensive can look so cheaply made. Idk what those lines are on his cheeks under his eyes, if his skin is a little puffy from lack of sleep or if they're like indentation-irritation like from incorrectly-sized glasses. But it tells me that either the makeup team or the cgi dept. didn't go hard enough. Maybe they weren't given enough time? But seeing that on a supposedly immortal uncanny valley-level gorgeous ever youthful / healthy / flawless elf is immersion-breaking. If LotR's team could work around John Rhys-Davies's skin's terrible reaction to his face makeup (info from a bts clip), then something could've been done here.
That was definitely Klingon. I don't know what he said, but it was definitely Klingon.
I think it’s nice they’re turning middle school movie writing class projects into films and shows. Really giving back to the people
This is why I'm sad the Acolyte got cancelled. So many top tier videos like this.
There could have been rivers of lemonade from those lemons!
Seriously do not understand how you watch these shows
I get sooo bored after ten minutes and switch off and yet you watch the whole series
Respect 😊
Normally I power through, but this one took multiple tries over 2 days. It's that bad
@@gregowen2022I literally suffered through the seasons of Star Trek: Discovery, just because it was supposed to be Star Trek! Then it might be good for at least a few minutes, right?
Then came the first episode of the final season... I couldn't stand even 5 minutes of it. Turned it off in disgust and literally grimaced and turned away from the TV.
I heard somewhere that the single wave hitting Cirdan can be interpreted as Ulmo stopping him from throwing the rings.
Also, Why does Celebrimbor look older than Galadriel? Isn't she his distant aunt in a way? Born thousands of years before Celebrimbor's birth. Since he's curufin's son and Feanor's only grandson.
I watched season 1 when it aired but didn't notice it then because the show slowed my mind and my ability to think straight.
Because they don't know how to design elves. All elves except VERY young elves look the same age, because they don't age beyond a certain point (obviously elf children do exist, but they're pretty rare).
18:26 😮 Holy DEI Elves that look completely Human 😂. I see 7 different races 😂. Great breakdown as always Greg 😊
I have a idea that this show is just a massive, massive tax con .
They would be better off having something actually make money. Being able to "write something off" merely makes the loss not hurt as bad.
money laundering is a real thing.
@@MumRah Amazon is actually turning profit nowadays (for 20 years amazon actually lost money) which resulted into no taxes, because losses can be used as tax write offs. Now amazon actually has to generate losses from somewhere so it doesnt have to pay federal taxes on the profits its making.
Because jeffery bezos wants to evade taxes as much as possible.
Definitely a money laundering operation
Bloody love the Hitchhikers reference!!!
I watched the first season, the second I decided to watch youtubers who have a field day on it
It's baffling that there are several fan films WAY better than any shot of this series... I liked The Hunt for Gollum. It's not perfect, but it has a ton of heart, which RoP definitely doesn't.
This is third review I've watched in which the reviewer has said something to the effect of "despite watching 'She-Hulk,' 'The Acolyte,' etc., watching *this* show was so boring and unpleasant that I had to force myself to get through it in a way I've never had to do before."
It really was a revelation. Those shows were bad, but this is something else entirely. How did we get here?!
Bravo to the Infocom Hitchhiker's Guide reference.
If you read the actual source material of "Lord Of The Rings", what Sauron is supposed to represent is pure evil in physical form. So giving him a backstory of a sympathetic character just doesn't really make any sense. Unless, of course, you completely ignore the source material and instead produce a movie series purely designed to make money.
We already had a character who was originally good, but was corrupted by The Ring (Gollum). We don't need another one. This is, in every way, an anti-Lord Of The Rings movie.
Edit: oh, sorry, my bad. Morgoth was pure evil and Sauron was made in his image, so I guess he's not pure evil, he's only 9.9/10 evil.
Fully agree. This genuinely is anti-Tolkien. His world has strong polar morality, and trying to add grey, especially for someone like Sauron is absurd
I mean, I'm not a Tolkien expert by any means, but it always was my impression that Sauron and even Melkor started out good and corrupted over time because of their selfish ambitions. And I do believe Sauron did have a chance at redemption once that he decided to throw away and become the new Dark Lord instead?
@@dancedancelauren I think a lot of the books represent a kind of metaphor for the contrasts between good and evil and light and dark, and Sauron is supposed to represent darkness, and then Eru is supposed to represent light. That's just my personal theory, anyway.
I dunno, though, maybe you're right. After all, it's a piece of art; so ultimately, it's up for interpretation. Either way, "The Rings Of Power" is a completely bastardization of the source material. Like, making one of the Orcs a family man who worries about his son, and making Galadriel a bad guy? lol.
@Hollyucinogen Ultimately I think you're right about Tolkien and good/evil, light/dark. Actually the evil just being a corruption of what's good still fits, particularly in light of Tolkien's catholicism.
Regardless, yes. ROP doesn't even handle the "corruption of what's good" correctly so it's terrible Tolkien.
@@dancedancelauren Morgoth is a creature of elemental destruction. That is literally his role in the cosmology, destruction and discord. There was never anything 'good' about him
Sauron was also never quite 'good', He served an Valar that opposed Morgoth at first, but Sauron's nature was always one of ambition and corruption
And remember, these are NOT humans. They do not have the capacity for change and growth one would assume of a human, they are elemental creatures, part of the foundations of the universe. Their nature is eternal, unchanging.
Which is why you know the writers of this show have never actually read Tolkien's work if THIS is what they came up with....
I watched the entirety of season 1 as it aired, purely so I could say for a certainty whether it was shit or not. (It was.)
I watched episode 1 of season 2, and that was all the confirmation I needed that nothing had improved.
What a waste of money. For a tiny fraction, they could’ve produced a 2nd season of The Terminal List, which was top notch!
Galadriel : "You've not seen what I've seen"
Me : "I've seen 2½ episodes of the first season"
Galadriel : "You've not seen what I've seen."
Me : "Yeah, Rrrrright"
i find it hilarious this show is slowly becoming a uniting force that everyone is shitting on and calling out. almost like an evil entity who's only purpose is to corrupt and destroy.
At least in fiction, sometimes "they're JUST the bad guys" is nice and amost "freeing". It might be too simplistic for a stripped down, character driven drama trying to win Academy Awards, but for big, sprawling action-adventure epics etc, some good old "good versus evil" works well. In LoTR, Sauron is bascially just the Devil, and the rest of the world is so well realized and engaging that you don't care about "why" he's evil.
I think the key here, to know what the writer’s are actually trying to say, you just have to replace words with other words, then you see the “ideology” they are really championing.
For instance, when they same “no one can tell you what your name is”, just replace “Name” with “Gender” in that conversation and it will probably sound a lot more familiar to you.
Only you can see that...because that is what you want to see....Human beings have forever struggled with identity crises....gender identity is just one of them...but since you are a bigot you have jumped to conclusions to justify your hatefulness...I pity you
Greg single handedly propping up Amazon's ratings by watching 3 times. Someone over at Amazon was like THIS DUDE LOVES THIS SHOW
I'm betting the people allowing this are holding massive short positions against Amazon. That or they are waiting to buy it when it finally hits rock bottom.
As a Lord of the Rings fan, I am mildly astounded at the law of diminishing returns with regards to live action. LoTR movies were near excellent (yes, they took some liberties), The Hobbit trilogy was ok (maybe two movies from The Hobbit source material but not three), RoP is unwatchable (not just due to poor lighting).
Nailed it!! ❤ Also I watch with VLC and use the 10s button a lot while watching RoP. Then again I only watched the first 3 eps so I could understand the YT reviews, now I am done! haha!
Their quality of profound quotes are genius. You should write them out if you see them they are Legend!
YES! I had to watch parts of this at 1.8x, I timed a few of the scenes, sometimes they will hold on a face or scene for 10-15 seconds, just to be C I N E M A T I C
There's just something about watching you slowly lose your mind over the course of 20 minutes.
Thanks for taking one for the team, Greg. Never stop making great videos ❤️
You can flesh our a villian's history in a way that really adds to the story. Robert Jordan did it very well with the Forsaken in Wheel of Time. But primarily through POV sections and it was never really in doubt they were still evil (excepting maybe Lanfear). Modern shows rely on using modern politics to excuse their actions and decisions and it doesn't work..
YES! WoT did it well. I especially like the "Yes, I know I'm kind of evil, but this is the most logical choice" villain
I mean... Sauron does have a story, he started out as a Maia learning under Aule loving order and tried to bring order to things to his craft. When he got corrupted he turned that wish to bring order to things into a wish to bring (his) order to the world, cause he is the only one capable of doing that. For LotR its better to keep that part out as it would overcomplicate things and the movies are good with the bbg thats to mighty to understand kind of thing, but if you wanted to give him something thats a point you could start.
@@The_AnnatarWell explained!
@@The_Annatar Does bbg mean big bad guy? Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.
@@sharksbreath7 yes it does
14:10 You're kidding! A woman that's actually protesting against countries, Middle Eastern at that, where abuse of women is common!?
I don't know what it was, but you looked GREAT in your opener!
Hahaha, probably the best I've ever looked!
I think the conflicted back story trope has been warped at this point. I think it caught on because when it started rising in popularity it was used to highlight the whole "if not for the choices we make" to differentiate between the hero and villain and instead has mutated into weak attempts at excusing villainous behavior.
A hard life doesn't excuse stealing, abuse, or murder. A hero rises above it to become good, a villain embraces it to become evil, and a murder hobo uses it as an excuse to avoid consequences.
Fully agree. It CAN be interesting, but modern lazy writers have now defaulted to "something bad happened to this character once, so they are not so bad, now, right?"