Been a subscriber for some time now but just stumbled upon this video. Not trying to sound like I'm trolling but Cerekote is just a a coating. FFL not required if you don't deal with firearms in your coating business.
Correct. The video was done from the standpoint of shops that do primarily firearms. Also, in our experience, I have yet to run into a shop owner that sprays Cerakote on automotive parts that doesn't quickly start to get people that want guns done. A shop cannot do firearms for profit without an FFL, and paying $150 for three years for the license is a cheap way to be a full service shop.
Ok, so here's what I've found out so far. I confirmed that if you are assembling firearms, you do need the 07. My rep also told me that if you are an 07, you do fall under ITAR, which is handled by the state department. She said that they generally waive the fee for small businesses that are just assembling firearms, but aren't necessarily doing a large volume. She gave me the number for the person handling ITAR at the state department, and I'm waiting for a call back with more info. Of course with the shutdown, they are probably backlogged, and it may be a while.
Finally heard back from the State Department, (through our buddy Zack). There are no ITAR waivers, and if you do get an 07, the fee is $2200. (ish) That could all change tomorrow, lol.
It was my understanding that ITAR only applies if you are manufacturing according to DOD's definition. Their definition is more along the lines of machining, milling, drilling, and cutting. They don't consider assembling as manufacturing. They will, however, consider threading a barrel for a brake or suppressor as manufacturing since it is considered enhancing the capabilities of the weapon.
Ok so I’m outta Springfield mo trying to start my business doing cut outs to slides on CNCs and cerakote them looking into getting my 07 Ffl and was wondering if you could point me in the right direction where I need to start Thanks
But only applies to serialized parts correct. You could do a slide only without and FFL correct? I would think anything you can buy online for a gun that is not required to be sent to an FFL is OK to modify/coat.
Absolutely. However, I can't remember the last time anyone wanted just unserialized parts done. You may get the occasional slide project, but I doubt anyone would want an entire AR done, minus the lower. Having an FFL really is a benefit, not a hinderance. ATF really just leaves you alone. We get audited once every three years, and even that process is pretty painless.
@@BransonCerakote Thanks, I did finally speak with the ATF agents. They said as long as I don't retain the part that is the gun overnight your OK, If it stays overnight then it must be logged in and out. I asked again to be sure and he said no unless it stays overnight. He did say most that engrave get it just to avoid issues. I was surprised but he said that is misunderstood a lot but you can engrave and coat but the key is you can't keep it overnight. Gun parts yes, The gun receiver or part that is per the ATF the gun you cannot keep it overnight. Anyway that is what they said. I'm getting anyway. What if someone didn't return that day, I'm screwed.
@@niceguydmm There's a little confusion. Keeping it overnight has to do with whether or not you have to log it into your book. Less than overnight does not have to be logged (we do anyway). If you do parts, meaning anything except the serialized components of the firearm, which is the actual gun, you do not have to have an FFL regardless of how long it is in your shop. If you do serialized parts, you do. If someone brings you a pistol slide, no frame, no FFL is needed. If they bring you a pistol frame (the actual firearm) with no slide, you do. If you are laser engraving, you have to have an 07 Manufacturers FFL to do serialized components.
@@BransonCerakote Its very confusing.... lol All I am going to do is engrave art work type stuff, none of the guns will be owned by me. I just need to hold them until done. 01 is what I am in progress of waiting on. The agent said 01 is what I needed.. I will not be doing ATF NFA Engraving.
@@niceguydmm An 01 is fine if you are doing customer guns, however, you can't purchase any guns from a wholesaler to do and sell or do any guns for manufacturers or gun stores. What it comes down to is whether the gun has entered commerce yet, meaning has someone outside of the FFL chain taken ownership. Think a customer who is not an FFL has purchased the gun and has completed the transfer paperwork and is the legal owner. If the gun has never left the FFL network meaning an FFL has not transferred it (with a 4473) to a non-FFL owner yet, you would need the 07 FFL. The 07 covers everything, and is the better option. It shouldn't be too late to change it. They usually give you the option all the way up to the completion of your in person interview. Just an FYI, you can do NFA engraving with an 01 in some cases, but the 07 covers all of them. Most NFA engraving only takes a few minutes, and can be accomplished while the customer waits.
@@BransonCerakote metal businesses cards. But not a business card they will be engraved with tube bending tables… industry specific bs and I know your probably thinking an the auto key card right now so let’s just put this out there I’m not doing that
@@StahlFirearmsNo2 As long as you don't do serialized firearm parts, lowers, grip frames, receivers, etc, you are good to go. It's only required if you are making a living in the firearms industry, not the Cerakote per se.
Welcome back to my feed after a few years. Never have made or taken a dollar cerakoting stuff, but I have produced some nice stuff for friends. Primary learning from your vids.
As far as I understand the need for an FFL for cerakote work does apply as it’s considered gunsmithing but that only applies to the serialized receiver. In the case of an AR the upper receiver doesn’t constitute as a gun therefore shouldn’t require an FFL. On a side note, have you ever attempted to cerakote kydex? I was thinking about it last night and kydex is generally firmed after being gradually heated to around 300°, so I wonder if you could bake it at 150° for two hours to cure cerakote without any deforming of the thermoplastic. Figured you were the guy to ask
Branson Cerakote sorry for the uneducated question but am correct in understanding that you don't need the FFL if your not assembling the gun after the individual parts are cerakoted? Appreciate your time and thanks for your videos.
If you pawn a handgun in Florida the broker has to do the same paperwork as a new purchase with the exception that they tag it as a pawn redemption and the 3 day waiting period doesn't apply.. It's all computerized here and goes to the FDLE..Not NICS..They changed the paperwork when they legalized medical marijuana..The other side of that is person to person transfer is legal here with no paperwork involved..Depending on the law in your state you might have to do a background check to return the item to the customer.. Interesting situation.🤔
According to ATF, at least everywhere I know of, it's not a change of ownership, so no 4473 is required. We mail guns all over the country and it's never been an issue.
Correct, but you won't be in the Cerakote business very long if you can't do serialized parts. I can't remember doing a single project where we did everything except the lower.
@@BransonCerakote I just can't believe you need an ffl for a cerakote job :/ I think if you have your hql and your gun smithing credentials you should be good :( I wanted to start from home and hopefully turn it into a business but I can't get my ffl at home without having a court proceeding and all that crap to be passed for me to get it to run it from home.
@@robdaniels4145 Wow, if you need a court proceeding, it must be where you live. ATF has no restrictions on type 01 FFL's for home based. Time to move to a free state. :)
Wow no kidding. I plan to get my online classes done for gun smithing. I knew I was gonna have to get a FFL after completing that. I also wanted to stemple and cerakote guns. I didn't know id need a FFL just for painting guns. I'm sure glad I seen this! Thank you!
Looks like a rarely enforced rule, for people who aren't doing large volume or exporting, but it is still the law. I'll be re-thinking our 07 at renewal time. Good info. Thanks for sharing.
@@BransonCerakote There was talk a couple of years ago about moving the oversight of 07s to the commerce Dept instead of the State dept, in which then they wre looking at doing away with the $2500 annual ITAR fee. But we haven't seen that yet. Otherwise I would like to do away with my 01 and get a 07.
@@troyeberling2432 I'm going to call my rep on Monday. The only reason we got an 07 was to protect our business. I've never heard of that fee, but sure as heck not interested in paying it, lol.
wouldn't you need an 07 to Cerakote suppressors? Are you just an 07 or also an SOT? How about the case where people that aren't local mail you a serialized part? Aren't you able to just mail it back to the return address?
You can coat NFA items with a type 01 or 07 FFL. The ATF made a determination in 2000 that sending out an NFA item for gunsmithing does not constitute a transfer and as such, a form 5 is not required. You only need the SOT if you are a) a type 01 FFL and you are selling NFA items, you need a class 03 SOT or b) you are a type 07 FFL (manufacturer) and you plan on manufacturing NFA items, you would need a class 02 SOT. For gunsmithing, a customer can ship a firearm to an FFL and when complete, the FFL can ship directly back to the customer. However, Some states do require it to be shipped to an FFL (California and a few others).
Question: if you cerakote and female the rifle, don't you need to engrave your business name, City and state on it as well? Wouldn't that fall under the manufacturing description?
@@MoHunnidzGunCollections I'm not sure what you mean by the other 20%, but that is correct. The serialized part is the firearm (The exception would be things like Glock slides and barrels, etc. On a pistol, the frame is the firearm. Except the Sig FCG. The point is, there are no quick fast rules, and understanding the laws and rules will keep people out of trouble.) :)
@@MoHunnidzGunCollections Correct. ATF doesn't care, but in my opinion, you'd have a hard time making it as a Cerakote business doing just non-serialized parts.
So if you log a customers gun into your inventory log book you don’t have to do another 4473 to give it back to them upon logging it out of your inventory? Hope that was worded clear enough.. reason I ask is bc I have 4 of my own weapons on display at a local gun shop that I do work through.. if they are staying overnight in their shop they need to be logged into their inventory and a 4473 has to be ran to return my firearms to me.. at least this is what they do and what was told to me by them.. that’s why I ask.. again John.. good shit and thanks
That is correct. It's not a transfer as long as the person dropping it off is the same person who picks it up. It falls under the gunsmithing rules. It is federal law, but I'd still check locally to make sure they don't require something else.
My understanding is, with an 07, you fall under itar, and they do not waive the fee completely. But cut it to about 500 dollars. However, with an 01, you can forego itar, and of you plan to assemble say an AR for a customer, provided you do not pin the upper to the lower, you are okay. Personally I think they should make an SOT for 01 ffl specifically around coating firearms that allows for assembly after visual modifications. Granted I think there should be a special ffl for coating firearms as well. While its modifying a firearm, it changes nothing of the characteristics of the firearm beyond visuals.
I still have not received a phone call back about it, but my rep said she's pretty sure the waive the fee completely if you are under a certain number of builds a year. If you assemble a gun, that you didn't strip down to begin with, you do need an 07.
My IOI advised no itar registration is required with on 07. It is a recommendation only. Itar for small arms /munitions is very clear about what defines manufacturing. If you're not welding or making metal chips fly , you are not manufacturing. On a side note....ITAR requirements for gunsmiths and 07's has been slated to be removed from the list. Trump signed the deregulation xo..now we are waiting for state dept to catch up.
We have insurance. We've never needed the others, knock on wood. Every city, county, and state has their own requirements for licensing, bonding, etc. There's no way to do a video on that, because it's different everywhere.
Hi John! Is it OK if I linked some of your vids to my website? I'm just starting out and am trying to boost traffic. Just would like an ok before I do anything. Thanks guys
How is a 80% coated and handled in this context? I've been wanting to build one but the idea of one is to keep it off the books but you put it on the books?
If it comes into my shop, and it's not milled yet, it's not a gun and doesn't go into the book. If it comes in and has been milled, it is a gun, and gets logged.
I know for a fact if your doing anything to a fire arm even if your just doing the parts somebody else takes it apart and puts it back together you better have a ffl. I do chrome plating and nickel plating and use to do a lot of guns till I pissed of a gun dealer cause I wouldn't do his part for half price so he sent the atf to my shop and I got a education real quick. And I had been doing this since 1988. So after that I just do my own guns
@@BransonCerakote yup, I hear ITAR can be a pain to navigate... i only have interest in custom work and modding, and some smithing work; but id rather be over-certified in case more oppertunity presents itself. thanks for all the feedback chief. it's greatly appreciated.
So if I want to Cerakote gun parts in CA as a coating business can I do any parts without the FFL license As long as it’s not the lower recievers that have serial numbers on them or If I start a business in another state that allows supressors just no suppressors or lower recievers correct ? And also as long as the customers brings parts already disassembled so I’m not doing any assembling or disassembling correct ?
CA is a bit of a different animal. I think you have to register with the state DOJ, but I'm not sure if it includes just doing unserialized parts. One thing you'll run into with that business model is that you really won't find many people that want everything except the lower coated. People generally want the entire gun done. I'm not really sure what you're asking with the business in another state and suppressors. Assembled or disassembled doesn't mean anything. A firearm is still a firearm. If they bring you a pistol frame with no parts and no slide, it's still a firearm. The only exception would be the Sig with the SN on the FCG.
So for clarification, if you’re just cerakoting peoples firearms out of your garage for profit, you’re supposed to have an FFL for that? Which I doubt you’d be able to get approved for since it isn’t officially a place of business or storefront.
That is correct. If you are doing any kind of work on firearms for profit and you are in possession of the firearm without the customer being present, you are required to have an FFL. As a side note, I have my type 07 FFL and I am home-based. I manufacture ARs, perform gunsmithing, do Cerakote, and operate as a dealer in firearms.
Yes, and you can. There are plenty of legit firearms businesses being run out of the home. ATF doesn't care as long as you have the appropriate licenses, and zoning.
@@ernster1193 If you are accepting money for the Cerakote work, then you are required to have one. If you are doing your personal stuff, or non-serialized items, you don't need one.
@@BransonCerakote Just so I am clear on this point, if I have someone bring me a completed gun and I break it down, coat it, and reassemble as it was given to me... I DO NOT need an FLL? its only if someone is buying a bunch of parts, sending them to me prior to assembly and has not registered the gun prior to it coming to me?
This video answered my questions faster than a google search. Thank you for making this simple for me.
Glad to help. Reach out if you have any issues.
Been a subscriber for some time now but just stumbled upon this video. Not trying to sound like I'm trolling but Cerekote is just a a coating. FFL not required if you don't deal with firearms in your coating business.
Correct. The video was done from the standpoint of shops that do primarily firearms. Also, in our experience, I have yet to run into a shop owner that sprays Cerakote on automotive parts that doesn't quickly start to get people that want guns done. A shop cannot do firearms for profit without an FFL, and paying $150 for three years for the license is a cheap way to be a full service shop.
Ok, so here's what I've found out so far. I confirmed that if you are assembling firearms, you do need the 07. My rep also told me that if you are an 07, you do fall under ITAR, which is handled by the state department. She said that they generally waive the fee for small businesses that are just assembling firearms, but aren't necessarily doing a large volume. She gave me the number for the person handling ITAR at the state department, and I'm waiting for a call back with more info. Of course with the shutdown, they are probably backlogged, and it may be a while.
Finally heard back from the State Department, (through our buddy Zack). There are no ITAR waivers, and if you do get an 07, the fee is $2200. (ish)
That could all change tomorrow, lol.
It was my understanding that ITAR only applies if you are manufacturing according to DOD's definition. Their definition is more along the lines of machining, milling, drilling, and cutting. They don't consider assembling as manufacturing. They will, however, consider threading a barrel for a brake or suppressor as manufacturing since it is considered enhancing the capabilities of the weapon.
If one has their 7's and are assembling firearms from other manufacturers, is there still a need to engrave other information on that firearm?
@@jetkrazee Assembly and manufacturing are two different things.
Ok so I’m outta Springfield mo trying to start my business doing cut outs to slides on CNCs and cerakote them looking into getting my 07 Ffl and was wondering if you could point me in the right direction where I need to start
Thanks
Great information!
Thanks for watching!
I'm taking it this only concerns cerakoting firearms? I'm planning on doing airsoft guns, so I shouldn't need a permit, should I?
Nope. You are good to go.
But only applies to serialized parts correct. You could do a slide only without and FFL correct? I would think anything you can buy online for a gun that is not required to be sent to an FFL is OK to modify/coat.
Absolutely. However, I can't remember the last time anyone wanted just unserialized parts done. You may get the occasional slide project, but I doubt anyone would want an entire AR done, minus the lower. Having an FFL really is a benefit, not a hinderance. ATF really just leaves you alone. We get audited once every three years, and even that process is pretty painless.
@@BransonCerakote Thanks, I did finally speak with the ATF agents. They said as long as I don't retain the part that is the gun overnight your OK, If it stays overnight then it must be logged in and out. I asked again to be sure and he said no unless it stays overnight. He did say most that engrave get it just to avoid issues. I was surprised but he said that is misunderstood a lot but you can engrave and coat but the key is you can't keep it overnight. Gun parts yes, The gun receiver or part that is per the ATF the gun you cannot keep it overnight. Anyway that is what they said. I'm getting anyway. What if someone didn't return that day, I'm screwed.
@@niceguydmm There's a little confusion. Keeping it overnight has to do with whether or not you have to log it into your book. Less than overnight does not have to be logged (we do anyway). If you do parts, meaning anything except the serialized components of the firearm, which is the actual gun, you do not have to have an FFL regardless of how long it is in your shop. If you do serialized parts, you do. If someone brings you a pistol slide, no frame, no FFL is needed. If they bring you a pistol frame (the actual firearm) with no slide, you do. If you are laser engraving, you have to have an 07 Manufacturers FFL to do serialized components.
@@BransonCerakote Its very confusing.... lol All I am going to do is engrave art work type stuff, none of the guns will be owned by me. I just need to hold them until done. 01 is what I am in progress of waiting on. The agent said 01 is what I needed.. I will not be doing ATF NFA Engraving.
@@niceguydmm An 01 is fine if you are doing customer guns, however, you can't purchase any guns from a wholesaler to do and sell or do any guns for manufacturers or gun stores. What it comes down to is whether the gun has entered commerce yet, meaning has someone outside of the FFL chain taken ownership. Think a customer who is not an FFL has purchased the gun and has completed the transfer paperwork and is the legal owner. If the gun has never left the FFL network meaning an FFL has not transferred it (with a 4473) to a non-FFL owner yet, you would need the 07 FFL. The 07 covers everything, and is the better option. It shouldn't be too late to change it. They usually give you the option all the way up to the completion of your in person interview. Just an FYI, you can do NFA engraving with an 01 in some cases, but the 07 covers all of them. Most NFA engraving only takes a few minutes, and can be accomplished while the customer waits.
So if I want to cerakote metal blanks and laser engrave them I don’t need an ffl?
Depends on what you mean by blanks.
@@BransonCerakote metal businesses cards. But not a business card they will be engraved with tube bending tables… industry specific bs and I know your probably thinking an the auto key card right now so let’s just put this out there I’m not doing that
@@StahlFirearmsNo2 As long as you don't do serialized firearm parts, lowers, grip frames, receivers, etc, you are good to go. It's only required if you are making a living in the firearms industry, not the Cerakote per se.
@@BransonCerakote okay thanks for the clarification
@@StahlFirearmsNo2 Glad to help.
Welcome back to my feed after a few years.
Never have made or taken a dollar cerakoting stuff, but I have produced some nice stuff for friends. Primary learning from your vids.
Thanks for watching!
As far as I understand the need for an FFL for cerakote work does apply as it’s considered gunsmithing but that only applies to the serialized receiver. In the case of an AR the upper receiver doesn’t constitute as a gun therefore shouldn’t require an FFL.
On a side note, have you ever attempted to cerakote kydex? I was thinking about it last night and kydex is generally firmed after being gradually heated to around 300°, so I wonder if you could bake it at 150° for two hours to cure cerakote without any deforming of the thermoplastic. Figured you were the guy to ask
Absolutely. You can do accessories, slides, uppers, etc without it. Great point!
155 for 2-2.5 hrs should be fine👍🏻.. id treat it like a scope and what I’d cure at
Branson Cerakote sorry for the uneducated question but am correct in understanding that you don't need the FFL if your not assembling the gun after the individual parts are cerakoted? Appreciate your time and thanks for your videos.
If you pawn a handgun in Florida the broker has to do the same paperwork as a new purchase with the exception that they tag it as a pawn redemption and the 3 day waiting period doesn't apply.. It's all computerized here and goes to the FDLE..Not NICS..They changed the paperwork when they legalized medical marijuana..The other side of that is person to person transfer is legal here with no paperwork involved..Depending on the law in your state you might have to do a background check to return the item to the customer.. Interesting situation.🤔
According to ATF, at least everywhere I know of, it's not a change of ownership, so no 4473 is required. We mail guns all over the country and it's never been an issue.
So you technically shouldn't need an ffl to buy and sell cerakoted parts then right? Luke hand guards and upper receivers?
Correct, but you won't be in the Cerakote business very long if you can't do serialized parts. I can't remember doing a single project where we did everything except the lower.
@@BransonCerakote I just can't believe you need an ffl for a cerakote job :/ I think if you have your hql and your gun smithing credentials you should be good :( I wanted to start from home and hopefully turn it into a business but I can't get my ffl at home without having a court proceeding and all that crap to be passed for me to get it to run it from home.
@@robdaniels4145 Wow, if you need a court proceeding, it must be where you live. ATF has no restrictions on type 01 FFL's for home based. Time to move to a free state. :)
@@BransonCerakote trust me I know haha. That's just for a business license lol haven't made it that far for the ffl yet haha. I'm in maryland :/
@@robdaniels4145 Yikes!
Wow no kidding. I plan to get my online classes done for gun smithing. I knew I was gonna have to get a FFL after completing that. I also wanted to stemple and cerakote guns. I didn't know id need a FFL just for painting guns. I'm sure glad I seen this! Thank you!
Yep. I've heard a couple of horror stories about guys getting jacked up for doing the work and not having it.
What if I wanted to do cerakote on just parts of a weapon. No disassemble or assembly.
If the parts you are coating are serial numbered, then yes.
One thing you didn't mention about the 07 is that you have to pay $2500 annually to the State Dept for ITAR.
First I've heard about this. Thanks for the info, and I'm going to check into this. :)
Yes you do if you manufacture and export military technology.
Looks like a rarely enforced rule, for people who aren't doing large volume or exporting, but it is still the law. I'll be re-thinking our 07 at renewal time. Good info. Thanks for sharing.
@@BransonCerakote There was talk a couple of years ago about moving the oversight of 07s to the commerce Dept instead of the State dept, in which then they wre looking at doing away with the $2500 annual ITAR fee. But we haven't seen that yet. Otherwise I would like to do away with my 01 and get a 07.
@@troyeberling2432 I'm going to call my rep on Monday. The only reason we got an 07 was to protect our business. I've never heard of that fee, but sure as heck not interested in paying it, lol.
love your videos very helpful!
Glad to help!
wouldn't you need an 07 to Cerakote suppressors? Are you just an 07 or also an SOT? How about the case where people that aren't local mail you a serialized part? Aren't you able to just mail it back to the return address?
You can coat NFA items with a type 01 or 07 FFL. The ATF made a determination in 2000 that sending out an NFA item for gunsmithing does not constitute a transfer and as such, a form 5 is not required. You only need the SOT if you are a) a type 01 FFL and you are selling NFA items, you need a class 03 SOT or b) you are a type 07 FFL (manufacturer) and you plan on manufacturing NFA items, you would need a class 02 SOT.
For gunsmithing, a customer can ship a firearm to an FFL and when complete, the FFL can ship directly back to the customer. However, Some states do require it to be shipped to an FFL (California and a few others).
Thanks Craig!
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Question: if you cerakote and female the rifle, don't you need to engrave your business name, City and state on it as well? Wouldn't that fall under the manufacturing description?
No. Cerakoting is considered gunsmithing, not manufacturing.
@@BransonCerakotefor an upper part it isn’t considered an firearm other then the other 20%
@@MoHunnidzGunCollections I'm not sure what you mean by the other 20%, but that is correct. The serialized part is the firearm (The exception would be things like Glock slides and barrels, etc. On a pistol, the frame is the firearm. Except the Sig FCG. The point is, there are no quick fast rules, and understanding the laws and rules will keep people out of trouble.) :)
@@BransonCerakote the slide is just 20% of the firearm is what I meant so it shouldn’t be a big deal for non FFL
@@MoHunnidzGunCollections Correct. ATF doesn't care, but in my opinion, you'd have a hard time making it as a Cerakote business doing just non-serialized parts.
So if you log a customers gun into your inventory log book you don’t have to do another 4473 to give it back to them upon logging it out of your inventory? Hope that was worded clear enough.. reason I ask is bc I have 4 of my own weapons on display at a local gun shop that I do work through.. if they are staying overnight in their shop they need to be logged into their inventory and a 4473 has to be ran to return my firearms to me.. at least this is what they do and what was told to me by them.. that’s why I ask.. again John.. good shit and thanks
Also would this vary state to state or it all falls under federal law?
That is correct. It's not a transfer as long as the person dropping it off is the same person who picks it up. It falls under the gunsmithing rules.
It is federal law, but I'd still check locally to make sure they don't require something else.
My understanding is, with an 07, you fall under itar, and they do not waive the fee completely. But cut it to about 500 dollars. However, with an 01, you can forego itar, and of you plan to assemble say an AR for a customer, provided you do not pin the upper to the lower, you are okay.
Personally I think they should make an SOT for 01 ffl specifically around coating firearms that allows for assembly after visual modifications.
Granted I think there should be a special ffl for coating firearms as well. While its modifying a firearm, it changes nothing of the characteristics of the firearm beyond visuals.
I still have not received a phone call back about it, but my rep said she's pretty sure the waive the fee completely if you are under a certain number of builds a year. If you assemble a gun, that you didn't strip down to begin with, you do need an 07.
My IOI advised no itar registration is required with on 07. It is a recommendation only. Itar for small arms /munitions is very clear about what defines manufacturing. If you're not welding or making metal chips fly , you are not manufacturing. On a side note....ITAR requirements for gunsmiths and 07's has been slated to be removed from the list. Trump signed the deregulation xo..now we are waiting for state dept to catch up.
Time for an update...did you go 07 or stay 01?
We have our 07 paperwork in, and are just waiting to hear back. Once we do, we'll go ahead and apply for our SOT.
What about insurance, bonds, and a lawyer? Youll need those also right?
We have insurance. We've never needed the others, knock on wood. Every city, county, and state has their own requirements for licensing, bonding, etc. There's no way to do a video on that, because it's different everywhere.
Hi John! Is it OK if I linked some of your vids to my website? I'm just starting out and am trying to boost traffic. Just would like an ok before I do anything. Thanks guys
Absolutely.
What if a customer drops off parts and you just cerakote them no assembly?
If it's a serial numbered item, like a Glock frame or an AR lower, then yes. If you're just doing uppers and slides, etc, no.
How is a 80% coated and handled in this context? I've been wanting to build one but the idea of one is to keep it off the books but you put it on the books?
If it comes into my shop, and it's not milled yet, it's not a gun and doesn't go into the book. If it comes in and has been milled, it is a gun, and gets logged.
@@BransonCerakote got you thanks for the response.
@@1212goose Glad to help. :)
I know for a fact if your doing anything to a fire arm even if your just doing the parts somebody else takes it apart and puts it back together you better have a ffl. I do chrome plating and nickel plating and use to do a lot of guns till I pissed of a gun dealer cause I wouldn't do his part for half price so he sent the atf to my shop and I got a education real quick. And I had been doing this since 1988. So after that I just do my own guns
If you haven't already, get your FFL. It pays for itself doing nothing more than transfers.
if you don't mind, what kind of money did the 07 FFL run you?
We have an 01. We were going to switch, but I can't get a consistent answer from anyone on ITAR.
@@BransonCerakote yup, I hear ITAR can be a pain to navigate... i only have interest in custom work and modding, and some smithing work; but id rather be over-certified in case more oppertunity presents itself. thanks for all the feedback chief. it's greatly appreciated.
@@boss350z5 Any time.
That was super informative and answered exactly what I needed. Thanks!
Glad to help!
So if I want to Cerakote gun parts in CA as a coating business can I do any parts without the FFL license
As long as it’s not the lower recievers that have serial numbers on them
or If I start a business in another state that allows supressors just no suppressors or lower recievers correct ?
And also as long as the customers brings parts already disassembled so I’m not doing any assembling or disassembling correct ?
CA is a bit of a different animal. I think you have to register with the state DOJ, but I'm not sure if it includes just doing unserialized parts. One thing you'll run into with that business model is that you really won't find many people that want everything except the lower coated. People generally want the entire gun done. I'm not really sure what you're asking with the business in another state and suppressors. Assembled or disassembled doesn't mean anything. A firearm is still a firearm. If they bring you a pistol frame with no parts and no slide, it's still a firearm. The only exception would be the Sig with the SN on the FCG.
So for clarification, if you’re just cerakoting peoples firearms out of your garage for profit, you’re supposed to have an FFL for that? Which I doubt you’d be able to get approved for since it isn’t officially a place of business or storefront.
Even if you AREN’T selling?
That is correct. If you are doing any kind of work on firearms for profit and you are in possession of the firearm without the customer being present, you are required to have an FFL.
As a side note, I have my type 07 FFL and I am home-based. I manufacture ARs, perform gunsmithing, do Cerakote, and operate as a dealer in firearms.
Yes, and you can. There are plenty of legit firearms businesses being run out of the home. ATF doesn't care as long as you have the appropriate licenses, and zoning.
@@ernster1193 If you are accepting money for the Cerakote work, then you are required to have one. If you are doing your personal stuff, or non-serialized items, you don't need one.
i dont think coating a firearm is considered building a gun even if you take it apart and put back together
Nope, as long as it comes in as a complete gun. However, if they part it together, want you to coat it, and assemble it, you're manufacturing.
@@BransonCerakote Just so I am clear on this point, if I have someone bring me a completed gun and I break it down, coat it, and reassemble as it was given to me... I DO NOT need an FLL? its only if someone is buying a bunch of parts, sending them to me prior to assembly and has not registered the gun prior to it coming to me?
@@robingeenen8280 No. If you take in items for coating that have a serial number, frames, lowers, etc, you have to have an FFL.
@@BransonCerakote ahh. copy. thank you.
Ban cerakoting
If we ban Cerakoting, then only criminals will have Cerakoting.