As a test; I sanded 2 shop cabinets with 100 grit sand paper years ago when CeraKote had just been out a year or 2. I have never had any flaking or other adhesion issues. The cabinets are used many times a day in a shop environment including accidental splashing of solvents on them and cleaning then with lacquer thinner to get off paint from sloppy painter's hands. I also coated the pull handles after just sanding with 100 grit and they have never had any adhesion issues. I wouldn't do a gun or anything of extreme value with this method, but it has been successful for me on low grade items like hand tools and cabinets. The original cabinets were refinished due to rusting. The rust has never returned and the cabinets are way older than they were when they were refinished.
The reason you don't want to use sandpaper is that the sandpaper just scratches the surface, and the Cerakote needs to be etched. The sandblaster leaves microscopic "v's" in the surface that the Cerakote is chemically designed to bond to. That's also the reason they limit you to a couple of different abrasive medias. Having said all that, we've done the same thing on some larger shop projects that wouldn't fit in the cabinet, and have had mixed results.
@@BransonCerakote We DA sanded the entire surface to bare metal. We have also sand blasted smaller items. I would say the results were the same. 0 adhesion issues with either. I also did one of our body shop alignment tools, that sold in bare metal form, to prevent rust. It has a friction slide that travels down a 1/2 rod. It has held up well even in the area under friction. Since we don't have a large area to sansblast large items in, we once again used sandpaper. If we could have sand blasted, it would be the preferred method. We used the air dry cerekote this time. The cabinets, which were done about 9 yesrs; were baked with I.R. lights at about 360 degrees.
The main reason we used Cerakote was to test the claims,and for its resistance to solvents; as well as the elimation for the need for primers and anti rust coatings. Just prep, sand/blast, spray Cerakote and done.
John is a wealth of information for the DIY'er like myself and has always responded quickly to questions via email. If you need stencils Laura is an expert and super helpful. Watching this channel has taught me how to do my favorite hobby. Thank you.
John you are the only one I listen too and take advice from for the most part when it comes to cerakote, thank you for the videos you make because they certainly help and make a difference buddy!!!
There are a few guys in business in my town that do not media blast first. I love it because I charge more to fix an issue than I do to do it right the first time.It turns out I get a lot of redo business from these guys.
Don't quote me on this but I believe some anodization processes use a dye process where the surface of aluminum or titanium is etched, filled with dye and then the natural oxide that forms when the part touches air seals the surface. A different anodization can be achieved with mineral baths and current to build up the clear oxide until it starts to break up the light into different spectra. Can be done to aluminum, titanium and niobium to my knowledge. Anodized niobium is pretty af when done right. Good watch ty.
I've been cerakoting for a while, but I recently coated a few bike parts and within 5 mins of them going in the oven lots of little blisters started appearing, is it possible I didnt wait long enough before putting them in the oven, thanks alot.
I have a revolver that has rust pits. What is material used to fill the rusted areas and pits? The process will be a delicate project, there is rust and pits next to the words. Thank you for making this video.
Ok I better understand after watching this video about the etching of the surface. But still what about the clear coat MC160 that says it can be used over paint? How is that adherent enough? Thanks again
The air cure clear coats do not have to have an etch to adhere. They do last longer with an etch, but it's not needed for them to adhere. The H series clears absolutely have to have a base coat of Cerakote.
Glad the help. Be careful what info you listen to. There's a lot of crazy advice out there, especially on FB. Except mine. Mine is gold, lol. What I normally tell people is that if it's pretty close to the Cerakote manual, you'll probably be ok. If it's way off, there's probably a reason why it's way off. Not trying to sell our website, but we have a lot of detailed info, discounts, and forums (Cerakote, how to run a business, how to make your own stencils, how to get into lasers, etc) over at ApplicatorHangout.com.
@@BransonCerakote hey thanks I’ve definitely been considering starting my own in my garage. Do you have any recommendations on a mini oven? You definitely have some great videos I’m still trying to figure out how you layer camo with stippling.
You answered one of my question in this video. Do you have to go to bare metal? Thanks to your video I know that I can just haze the surface to gray instead of down to bare metal. That helps me alot. I have a 60g 18.1cfm tank and I was going through 3 cycles on one upper. This will help reduce the ware on my compressor and help speed up my process. Thank you!
Hi John, I’m trying to restore some sunglasses and was thinking on Cerakote. Two of the frames are made of plastic and one is metal. What air pressure and grit would you recommend to avoid destroying the frames? Thks!
I doubt it. Cerakote needs a pretty uniform, specific etch pattern to adhere correctly. It goes on so thin that any inconsistency would probably be visible.
Sandpaper will only scratch the item, not etch it. The Cerakote will not adhere properly and will eventually fail. Sandblasting removes the old coating, and gives the surface a specific etch profile. The coating is chemically engineered to bond to that etch profile. That's also why you only have two options for abrasive media.
We only use 100 grit red garnet. I've had some stuff come through for repair that was sanded with the wrong media, and it was pretty chewed up. The Cerakote is formulated to fill in a specific etch profile.
You can diy one out of a plastic tote from walmart. Just search "diy sandblast cabinet". All the cabinet is going to do is keep everything contained so there's no mess and you can reuse the media again later.
Yes. Anything that is going to be Cerakote has to be sandblasted. Don't listen to the sandpaper and Scotch Brite advice. Cerakote is chemically designed to adhere to a specific etch profile, in order to give it the needed durability. That is also why you only get two choices of abrasive. With polymer, you are just looking to take the gloss off of the surface. With a regular pickup tube cabinet, 40-45 PSI is usually going to do fine.
@@coll3595 Yep. You can either soak it in simple green for about 20 minutes, then rinse, or just wipe down with acetone. Sandblast at 35-40 psi just until it’s no longer glossy.
How much media should I buy? I only plan on doing one AR and AO isn’t cheap and I don’t need extra media for future projects. Any advise would greatly be appreciated.
@@BransonCerakote I’ve been thinking about this a bunch and it seems no one really addresses it anywhere on TH-cam… how does one reliably sandblast all the inside surfaces of a handguard? That seems like it’s be very difficult. Especially without over-blasting the holes you’re spraying through.
@@verhoevc There's really no everlasting unless you are at a crazy pressure. The inside gets plenty scuffed during normal sanding. The inside isn't exposed to abrasion, so the coating sticks fine. We also let the sander run for a few seconds from each end.
Anodization isn't technically a "coating" as much as it is an oxidization process that happens within the alloy itself. Anodized aluminum has no additives- its just a hardening/treatment process where aluminum is dipped in a tub of chemicals circulating a certain voltage. I will not act like I'm smart enough to understand the colorization, I've tried wrapping my brain around the why of it and gotten nowhere, but the bones are that varying voltages applied during the anodization process bring out different colors in different materials. That's probably why you can just strip the outermost layer of an anodized finish- you're just pulling the oxidized layer and exposing untreated material.
Oxidization is the addition of an oxygen atom bound to the surface of the aluminum alloy, in this case. Theoretically it’s possible that the addition of these atoms to the aluminums crystalline lattice traps photons which is what causes the aluminum to appear black or darker. This is a hard coat anodizing. To obtain other colors or effects I believe molecular dies are used instead of an oxidation process.
@@BransonCerakote lol! I just love learn and this subject is currently at the intersection of a lot of my studies. I've been learning more about machining, materials science, engineering, chemistry, and physics. I'm getting into manufacturing so I've had to study a lot about what types of material coatings are available. Cerakote is very intriguing to me and I hope to keep learning more. Thank you for your channel and your invaluable knowledge!
As a test; I sanded 2 shop cabinets with 100 grit sand paper years ago when CeraKote had just been out a year or 2. I have never had any flaking or other adhesion issues. The cabinets are used many times a day in a shop environment including accidental splashing of solvents on them and cleaning then with lacquer thinner to get off paint from sloppy painter's hands. I also coated the pull handles after just sanding with 100 grit and they have never had any adhesion issues. I wouldn't do a gun or anything of extreme value with this method, but it has been successful for me on low grade items like hand tools and cabinets. The original cabinets were refinished due to rusting. The rust has never returned and the cabinets are way older than they were when they were refinished.
The reason you don't want to use sandpaper is that the sandpaper just scratches the surface, and the Cerakote needs to be etched. The sandblaster leaves microscopic "v's" in the surface that the Cerakote is chemically designed to bond to. That's also the reason they limit you to a couple of different abrasive medias.
Having said all that, we've done the same thing on some larger shop projects that wouldn't fit in the cabinet, and have had mixed results.
@@BransonCerakote We DA sanded the entire surface to bare metal. We have also sand blasted smaller items. I would say the results were the same. 0 adhesion issues with either. I also did one of our body shop alignment tools, that sold in bare metal form, to prevent rust. It has a friction slide that travels down a 1/2 rod. It has held up well even in the area under friction. Since we don't have a large area to sansblast large items in, we once again used sandpaper. If we could have sand blasted, it would be the preferred method. We used the air dry cerekote this time. The cabinets, which were done about 9 yesrs; were baked with I.R. lights at about 360 degrees.
The main reason we used Cerakote was to test the claims,and for its resistance to solvents; as well as the elimation for the need for primers and anti rust coatings. Just prep, sand/blast, spray Cerakote and done.
@@Randazler Good info. Thanks for sharing.
John is a wealth of information for the DIY'er like myself and has always responded quickly to questions via email. If you need stencils Laura is an expert and super helpful. Watching this channel has taught me how to do my favorite hobby. Thank you.
Don't give Laura a big head, lol. Glad to help!
Enjoying you sharing and helping our the diy guys . I have learned a lot from your videos
I appreciate you watching!
John you are the only one I listen too and take advice from for the most part when it comes to cerakote, thank you for the videos you make because they certainly help and make a difference buddy!!!
I appreciate it. Thank you for watching.
I really appreciate your content and willingness to help DIY'rs out. Thank you
Glad to help!
@@BransonCerakote do you do cerakote services for small dirt bike parts?
@@coloradodirtbike5930 Sure.
@@BransonCerakote Do you have an email or website to contact you for a rough price quote? **I just looked at your about section and found it** thanks.
@@coloradodirtbike5930 That was an easy one. lol
There are a few guys in business in my town that do not media blast first. I love it because I charge more to fix an issue than I do to do it right the first time.It turns out I get a lot of redo business from these guys.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are cutting corners It always catches up eventually.
Watching all of your videos and they are great. Thanks for the info.
Glad to help.
Don't quote me on this but I believe some anodization processes use a dye process where the surface of aluminum or titanium is etched, filled with dye and then the natural oxide that forms when the part touches air seals the surface. A different anodization can be achieved with mineral baths and current to build up the clear oxide until it starts to break up the light into different spectra. Can be done to aluminum, titanium and niobium to my knowledge. Anodized niobium is pretty af when done right.
Good watch ty.
Sounds pretty cool.
@@BransonCerakote used to make jewelry in anodized niobium. Very underrated metal.
@@Felenari Very cool. Never had any of that come through the shop.
And this kinda stuff is why I subscribed. Our short conversation was enlightening and enjoyable.
Glad to help!
I've been cerakoting for a while, but I recently coated a few bike parts and within 5 mins of them going in the oven lots of little blisters started appearing, is it possible I didnt wait long enough before putting them in the oven, thanks alot.
Your hardener isn't mixed in enough. Happens. Add the hardener, stretch a glove over the mouth, and shake the hell out of it for about 60 seconds.
Thank you always for your tips and info to help us that do this as a hobby so we can have the correct results.
Glad to help!
I have a revolver that has rust pits. What is material used to fill the rusted areas and pits? The process will be a delicate project, there is rust and pits next to the words. Thank you for making this video.
We don't do repairs in our shop, but I've heard of people using Durafil.
Ok I better understand after watching this video about the etching of the surface. But still what about the clear coat MC160 that says it can be used over paint? How is that adherent enough? Thanks again
The air cure clear coats do not have to have an etch to adhere. They do last longer with an etch, but it's not needed for them to adhere. The H series clears absolutely have to have a base coat of Cerakote.
Hey thanks for the info I was thinking of trying my own cerakote on my guns.
Glad the help. Be careful what info you listen to. There's a lot of crazy advice out there, especially on FB. Except mine. Mine is gold, lol. What I normally tell people is that if it's pretty close to the Cerakote manual, you'll probably be ok. If it's way off, there's probably a reason why it's way off. Not trying to sell our website, but we have a lot of detailed info, discounts, and forums (Cerakote, how to run a business, how to make your own stencils, how to get into lasers, etc) over at ApplicatorHangout.com.
@@BransonCerakote hey thanks I’ve definitely been considering starting my own in my garage. Do you have any recommendations on a mini oven? You definitely have some great videos I’m still trying to figure out how you layer camo with stippling.
You answered one of my question in this video. Do you have to go to bare metal? Thanks to your video I know that I can just haze the surface to gray instead of down to bare metal. That helps me alot. I have a 60g 18.1cfm tank and I was going through 3 cycles on one upper. This will help reduce the ware on my compressor and help speed up my process. Thank you!
Glad to help!
Hi John, I’m trying to restore some sunglasses and was thinking on Cerakote. Two of the frames are made of plastic and one is metal. What air pressure and grit would you recommend to avoid destroying the frames? Thks!
I wouldn't do plastic unless it's actual polymer. Sand poly at around 30 psi. Metal is good to go at around 50-60.
@@BransonCerakote Thks! The plastic ones are Oakley Jawbone and Flak so probably they are made of polymer. What blast media will work best?
@@gdgav They are. We've done them before. We use 100g Red Garnet.
I wonder if acid etching the metal would work for DIY purposes. Has anyone tried muriatic acid, for example?
I doubt it. Cerakote needs a pretty uniform, specific etch pattern to adhere correctly. It goes on so thin that any inconsistency would probably be visible.
Is necessary to sandblast an anodize lower or hand sandpaper will be ok, thanks for the vide
Sandpaper will only scratch the item, not etch it. The Cerakote will not adhere properly and will eventually fail. Sandblasting removes the old coating, and gives the surface a specific etch profile. The coating is chemically engineered to bond to that etch profile. That's also why you only have two options for abrasive media.
Another great video! Kind of off topic but what temp do you usually bake polymer parts at? With and with out stencils? Thanks in advance!
180 for two hours.
@@BransonCerakote thank you! You guys kick ass!
Rock star. Really trying to help. Good man.
I wouldn't go that far. I have a terrible singing voice, lol.
how important is it to use 120g ao vs 80g ao? Have you seen application failures specifically related to blasting grit?
We only use 100 grit red garnet. I've had some stuff come through for repair that was sanded with the wrong media, and it was pretty chewed up. The Cerakote is formulated to fill in a specific etch profile.
Thanks for another great video. I'm trying to absorb as much info from your content as possible.
Glad to help!
Where can i find 100 red garnet? All I can seem to find is Garnet or black aluminum oxide. Is Garnet the same as red Garnet?
Yes it is. We get garnet at Grainger.com. If you have a local Grainger store, they deliver it there for free.
Sir, I’m a DYIer, what is the difference between 100 and 120. When do you use one over the other.
Your only two options are 100 grit red garnet or 120 grit aluminum oxide. They both work the same. We prefer the garnet for cost and mess.
What about metal etching liquids? Would that be adequate for preparation?
No clue. We've never done any of that.
Can you use a hand held sand blaster or do you need the cabinet
As long as you use the right abrasive, it should be fine.
You can diy one out of a plastic tote from walmart. Just search "diy sandblast cabinet". All the cabinet is going to do is keep everything contained so there's no mess and you can reuse the media again later.
@@OhshitPositive Just make sure you wear a respirator and eye protection.
What about a bare aluminum lower, do you still need to sandblast?
Yep. The surface has to be etched for the Cerakote to bond to it.
Will vapour blasting do??
Are you supposed to sandblast polymer as well??
Yes. Anything that is going to be Cerakote has to be sandblasted. Don't listen to the sandpaper and Scotch Brite advice. Cerakote is chemically designed to adhere to a specific etch profile, in order to give it the needed durability. That is also why you only get two choices of abrasive.
With polymer, you are just looking to take the gloss off of the surface. With a regular pickup tube cabinet, 40-45 PSI is usually going to do fine.
@@BransonCerakote awesome thanks for the help!.
@@BransonCerakote I’m assuming you degreat polymer as well and put gas before cerakoting?
@@coll3595 Yep. You can either soak it in simple green for about 20 minutes, then rinse, or just wipe down with acetone. Sandblast at 35-40 psi just until it’s no longer glossy.
@@BransonCerakote ok great one more question? I want to mirror polish my barrel can I clear cerakote on top of a mirror polished barrel
Has anyone used wet abrasive blasting instead of normal cabinet dry blasting? If so, how did it work out?
Never tried it.
How much media should I buy? I only plan on doing one AR and AO isn’t cheap and I don’t need extra media for future projects. Any advise would greatly be appreciated.
I'd buy a bag of 100g red garnet. Grainger has it for around $50.
I know this is a little late but what do you recommend for preping allumahyde for an 16a1 upper from a parts kit for a build.
It has to come off. Degrease, gas, sand, blow off, spray.
Man I needed this!! Thanks!
Glad to help!
Thank you sir for the advise and expertise. People just don't get it. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all lol.
Or keep doing it over and over again, lol.
My mentor always told me, "If you take the time to do it right, you won't have to make time to do it over."
Do you sandblast just the outside surfaces of the uppers and lowers or do you also get a little into the insides as well?
You have to sandblast every surface that you want the Cerakote to stick to.
@@BransonCerakote I’ve been thinking about this a bunch and it seems no one really addresses it anywhere on TH-cam… how does one reliably sandblast all the inside surfaces of a handguard? That seems like it’s be very difficult. Especially without over-blasting the holes you’re spraying through.
@@verhoevc There's really no everlasting unless you are at a crazy pressure. The inside gets plenty scuffed during normal sanding. The inside isn't exposed to abrasion, so the coating sticks fine. We also let the sander run for a few seconds from each end.
How do you do carbon fibre, plastic or other sensitive material? Do they also need the same sand blast requirements?
Just sand them at a lower pressure. With non-metal materials, all you need to do is scuff the surface.
Hey John, was wondering if you’ve ever coated titanium? If so what’s the best route to blasting it?
Just give it a good scuff. No different than other metal.
I got a 35$ portable sand blast gun and built a homemade cabinet for 120 grit AO ✅💪
That works!
This guy gives mean handshakes, I guarantee it.
Lol!
My buddy brought me his shotgun to do one day that was done with bad preperation it was flaking off
Was it more than one color?
Anodization isn't technically a "coating" as much as it is an oxidization process that happens within the alloy itself. Anodized aluminum has no additives- its just a hardening/treatment process where aluminum is dipped in a tub of chemicals circulating a certain voltage.
I will not act like I'm smart enough to understand the colorization, I've tried wrapping my brain around the why of it and gotten nowhere, but the bones are that varying voltages applied during the anodization process bring out different colors in different materials.
That's probably why you can just strip the outermost layer of an anodized finish- you're just pulling the oxidized layer and exposing untreated material.
You've looked way further into this than I've ever wanted to, lol. :)
@@BransonCerakote I just know enough to be dangerous😁
Oxidization is the addition of an oxygen atom bound to the surface of the aluminum alloy, in this case. Theoretically it’s possible that the addition of these atoms to the aluminums crystalline lattice traps photons which is what causes the aluminum to appear black or darker. This is a hard coat anodizing. To obtain other colors or effects I believe molecular dies are used instead of an oxidation process.
@@LukeAquilina You should get out more, lol. :)
@@BransonCerakote lol! I just love learn and this subject is currently at the intersection of a lot of my studies. I've been learning more about machining, materials science, engineering, chemistry, and physics. I'm getting into manufacturing so I've had to study a lot about what types of material coatings are available. Cerakote is very intriguing to me and I hope to keep learning more. Thank you for your channel and your invaluable knowledge!
Acid etching doesn't work? Guess I'm going anodized.
Nope. Has to be sand blasted.
can i have your email i been watching your videos and like to ask u some question about cerakoting thanks
info@bransoncerakote.com
Absolutely cheap blast cabinet and vacume with home made dust collector and you get great results or should I say at least it won't fall off lol
Whatever it takes. :)
what kind of compressor are you using? having a hard time finding a affordable one within the ballpark on the required cfm
@@joesanchez3657 Off the shelf Cobalt 80 gallon.