whats heartbreaking about messmer is what he says in his cutscene, he literally cannot believe that after his mother locked him away and forsakes him she would allow a lowly tarnished who is fundamentally as graceless as him to become a lord and not him. Like what a slap in the face
I think more than anything he just want to return to the lands between, or at least hear a thing or two from Marika again, after who knows how many decades, if not centuries of lull. Instead he encountered a tarnished he thought being sent there to clean up the evidence judging by how the guidance of grace is pointing to him.
@@spearsagethe implications were never good, in his head either we were a cruel joke of a lord that he never got to be or sent by his own mother to get rid of the crusade evidence
To be the lord means to be the consort of Marika. Messmer is Marika's child so he knew that there is no way he can be the lord. He's just pissed at the fact that Marika ordered him to massacre all people who don't have grace in their eyes for pretty much eternally, yet in the end made a tarnished the lord.
@@CYC_JP I want to clarify what it means to be a lord. Placidusax was consort of the gloam eyed queen. To be more specific to be a lord is to be married to the God of your age. I say God because Miquella becomes a God and Radahn is his consort Edit 1: Why Placidusax was likely The Gloam Eyed Queen's consort It is heavily implied since she is the empyrean that Marika replaced. In order to be a God, an Empyrean must have a consort, and we know for a fact that placidusax was Elden lord at some point. Placidusax is also said to be awaiting the return of his God, and the Gloam Eyed Queen's fate isnt confirmed to be dead or alive aka she is missing [Godslayer Greatsword]. Most of what I've said comes straight from item descriptions it's not just me making stuff up, I'm simply making connections with known lore entries. If you don't feel like this is strong enough evidence that's fine. Fromsoft lore is never set 100% in stone. I was simply trying to clarify what a Lord was. Regardless if I'm right about placidusax and the gloam eyed queen the clarification is still correct. Either way I'm not going to respond to anymore replies I don't care enough to do so.
If I remember correctly Godwyn isn't technically dead, just his soul. The night he was 'killed' Ranni was also killed, but instead of both of them dying for real her body died and soul lived on, whereas Godwyn's soul died and his body lived on. Thats why she can inhabit various puppets and he is stuck stuck.
@@TiakOSRS Indeed I should have clarified that I didn’t mean dead literally as his body is still present just like you said. I wanted to clarify the details about the faces in the DLC since I didn’t want people to assume Godwyn is alive and somehow made it here. Which is obviously not true.
Yeah. His soul is gone, and his corpse can't decompose and is instead on some form of mystic metastasis where is acting as a bunch of tumors growing across the Lands Between, and for the looks of it now branching into the Realm of Shadows.
that makes me wonder if Ranni caught word of miquella's plan and decided to sabotage him since she also wanted her own age (age of stars) if that's the case, then it makes me mad FS didn't allow us to have a miquella ending called "age of compassion" where we choose to ally with him and mend the elden ring with his rune
The DLC has changed my views of Miquella's curse of eternal youth from being one that focuses on his fate to never come to fruition and instead is simply a curse that keeps him as a child. As powerful and talented as he is, in my eyes Miquella has always had the mindset of a naive child. Instead of having his curse doom his endeavors to fail, its his childlike tendency to abandon a task in search of a new idea or plan that has been causing him to fail time and time again. Miquella failed to find a way to fully cure Malenia's Scarlet Rot, and instead moved on to the Haligtree as his next project when he got a temporary fix. His safe haven to the oppressed was left to wither and rot when he entered his cocoon to possibly free himself of his curse. Without any sign of looking back at the horrors he is doing by abandoning his projects and goals time and time again, Miquella fails to ever consider the true ramifications of his actions. The DLC makes this all the more clear. His plan to enter the Shadow Lands to become a god make his theft from the Haligtree into him abandoning it, leaving his followers to wait for him endlessly as the Scarlet Rot overtakes them. His desire to have Radahn be his Lord due to his kindness and strength comes off as a child idolizing an older brother, failing to see Radahn as his true self: a blood thirsty warrior who craved glory and battle endlessly. His journey through the Shadow Lands shows him walking a path that I truly do not believe Miquella understood the ramifications of. He abandons his core characteristics as a part of his ascension to godhood, not realizing that he will become "caged by divinity" as he naively condemns himself to being a puppet of the Greater Will or some other Outer God. Even his Age of Compassion is corrupted by his childlike view on the world. Instead of truly leading and changing the world, Miquella charms people into following him. And judging by his dialogue in the final fight, I don't think Miquella understands how brainwashing people into compassionate and kind people is no better than making them his puppets. Overall, I find Miquella to be a very interesting character: A godlike being with the naivety of a child.
This is such a good way to look at it, I always found the way miquella seemed to ignore the rammifications of his actions odd but when looking at it like this it makes perfect sense.
"failing to see Radahn as his true self: a blood thirsty warrior who craved glory and battle endlessly. " everything u said is correct and insightful except this part, which is objectively false and the games lore makes that very very clear. radahn was one of the kindest, he just lost his mind from scarlet rot and STILL had enough kindness in him to halt the stars and keep his horse, not to mention Gaius, and thats the entire point of miquella loving him. not a single piece of lore or story ever indicates radahn was ever blood thirsty or even bad, in fact, the dude had an entire festival dedicated to ending his misery, he was almost as idolized as godwyn, which im a bit disappointed about his lore content in ER dlc, it aint much and im mad at miquella for not even mentioning him...godwyn was quite loved too, his friendship with fortisax, several regions having statues of him, and the one that got me the most was the one in haligtree, where hes seen cradling his little sisters/brother malenia and maquila, that little fucker truly abandoned everything to get what he wants and in the end he died for nothing and his results barely ever benefitted anyone, not even himself. just a kind, naive and all powerful child surrounded by a cruel cruel world, cruel gods and worse of all, an endlessly cruel mother. and even marika herself left her last bits of kindness in the shaman village, this games lore man...it just hurts, and its the best lore fromsoft has ever done, my hats off to you fromsoft.
Oh yeah we do, dude died because we thought he was too gae for Miquella and was so weird. Turns out, Miquella was the real weird one and wants to marry his stepbrother Radahn, who Jarren specifically sends us to put to rest. Also, Mellenia deserved better, left all behind all broken and gone.
@@myankoZuluTango3613 Radahn is Miquella's half brother which makes it even worse, but yeah. However there is a such thing as a non-romantic consort in Elden Ring.
There's a group of small but very vivid details that makes me convinced that Radahn, in fact, is highly opposed to Miquella's actions. Firstly - Radahn held back the stars which kept the fate of the empyreans. Doing so, it seems that he has stopped not only Ranni from acting but also blocked Miquella's actions that were meant to ascend him to godhood. That is, I believe, a reason for Malenia to strike at Radahn. He simply broke the vow and rejected Miquella. Secondly - it is stated that it was Miquella who saw a lord in Radahn. We don't get to see Radahn's response to that. It's simply implied that Miquella proposed something to his brother but we aren't told about his response. However, Malenia's actions are rather brutal and it seems dubious for Radahn to agree on blowing up the entire Caelid which was, in the end, the province that he had ruled. Moreover, if Radahn and Malenia agreed on having a duel, Radahn wouldn't have erupted with flames to stop the scarlet rot in his body. But he did erupted. Right, so also amidst the fight with Radahn in this DLC, he kneels down on the ground and erupts with fire. It's the same fire that he erupted during his fight with Malenia, which was later implied in Radahn's great rune that he did so in order to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot. Who is Radahn resisting then? The player? But the Tarnished cannot charm anybody. So it seems that Radahn's resisting Miquella's charm or perhaps the mismatch between Radahn's soul and Mohg's body becomes apparent to him, therefore he wishes to reject it. Seconds later however, Miquella steps through the gate of divinity only to quell the eruption of fire in his brother's body. Radahn's resolve has been put back on place, he stands up and subsequently fights the Tarnished yet again. There's also another layer of lore to be found in regards to hornsent people as well as omens. So in the armors of hornsent warriors from Belurat it is implied that their horns serve the purpose of invoking the divinity. The true reason why Radahn must've died and his soul put into Mohg's body was because Mohg was an omen - therefore he was a hornsent. His body did not only serve the purpose of being merely a vessel. It was also used to invoke Miquella's divinity as he has stripped himself of everything human, thus making himself nothing but a transcendent spirit. Lastly, there are two other details that shed some light on the Radahn's opinion on his brother's actions. First off - the name of the boss itself is "Promised Consort Radahn". It's "promised", not just "consort". I believe it's a soft implication that there is some kind of coercion going on when it comes to Radahn's becoming Miquella's consort. For Radahn to act on his own volition in favor of Miquella's case, it'd be more logical to name him "Radahn, the Consort of Miquella". Now, another part is the soundtrack of this last bossfight. It's first phase is an inverted remix of the second phase of Starscourge bossfight from the base game. However, at one point you can clearly hear between 1:55 to 2:05 a false, disharmony in the choir, as if somebody just missed a few notes. This, I believe, points towards Radahn's true personality shedding the last tear of grievance at his miserable fate that has been brought upon him by his brother. Besides, there's a good reason for this boss to have the same leitmotiff as Starscourge, it's because Starscourge's second phase is a military elegy, a composition prepared to say goodbye, to honor somebody's death. But Radahn's not dead in the DLC yet he wished to be deceased. Freya says otherwise but she doesn't quote Radahn, she merely speaks in his stead as if she knew better. So in short guys - I know the boss is hard as hell but it's time to man up, pick up that Tragoth's hammer and put the poor man Radahn into eternal sleep that he wished.
Agreed, one hundred percent. The fact that Miquella can force people to love him seems to me to heavily imply that our boy Radahn is being brainwashed.
to me it's made pretty clear Radhan does not want to be Miquella consort. In addition to what you've said, -> there's the incantation Light of Miquella : "The strength of Miquella upon his deific return, wielded as an incantation. Annihilates foes with a pillar of light. Miquella sought to accept all that was and would be, but found one that refused to be embraced. No wonder, as one god, and one king consort, is all the world needs." => He found one that refused to be embraced, well it is Radhan I think, especially because you get this incantation by defeating him. It could be ourselves also, willing to be Elden Lord, but sounds weird to talk about the player directly in a spell/item. -> the way Miquella go on Radhan shoulders, as the lion on Godfrey shoulders. For FS it implies that the being on the shoulder will influences the holder abilities. Also it definetly looks like the devil whispering to its victim, full of fake promises. And it does not look like Lorian and Lothric since one of them was disabled, the reason here was clearly not to manipulate.
@@nikolai347I'm with ya except, we are the one who refused to be embraced. There is only room for 1 lord, me, and 1 God, most likely ranni going by player data lol.
I think most of us had already guessed that Marika, Miquella and Ranni were all playing game of thrones with pawns of their own 2 years ago. But it is nice to see the confirmation through this DLC.
@EeveetoUmbreon25 True, but at least Ranni is up front about it if you decide to work with her. "Yep, I orchestrated the night of black knives. Yes, I'm using you for my own purposes. You sure you want to work with me? Okay then."
I think the whole idea of the Three Fingers is that, since the Two Fingers are representatives of Order, the Frenzied Flame takes the form of the Three Fingers to mock the Two Fingers and their order.
The question is if there is also a one finger? What would it represent? creation? Chaos? Or something else? I dont think if 2 and 3 have such a meaning that 1 wouldnt.
@@ExtremeBemoit’s hard to say because I’m not sure how Metyr fits into all of it. Before Metyr it seemed like we had somewhat of a clean explanation. Two and three fingers make one hand, when the one great split for whatever reason, we got the two and three fingers. One group as the servants of order the other chaos. But with Metyr we don’t have a clean explanation anymore. If anything, finger lore while more expansive, at least at the moment is also much more confusing. Somehow knowing less we understood more. Now that we know more we understand less. More than anything I’m waiting for this particular part of the story to be touched on by lore people.
personally i think that the fingers themselves are just vessels for whichever god is able to claim them. So metyr makes the fingers and kinda just lets them go, and a god uses them as communion, whichever one latches on first
I never saw Radahn as this bloodthirsty warrior that was just looking for a grand fight to end things on. He was an intelligent and kind individual from what we have seen in lore notes, going to Sellia to learn gravity magic for the purpose of being able to continue to ride his horse along with owning multiple animals like a small cat. We also learn he took on the mantle of the Lion to symbolize Godfrey and Serosh after being captivated by them. Notice how he is captivated by Godfrey NOT Hoarah Loux, a calculated and strongwilled leader as opposed to the barbaric origins hes known for. It was only after being beaten in Caelid did Radahn become a bloodthirsty monster.
Yknow I just noticed the parallel you kill Radahn taking him from a blood crazed barbarian and turning him into miquellas lord A lord who just so happens to invoke much of Godfrey’s image just as much as miquella invokes Marika’s image Radahn unintentionally gets to be everything his idol ever was but in the process loses his formerly kind and compassionate self
@@patrickripleyiii134Exactly. It's like saying Hitler loved dogs, he was nice to some people so he was Kind as well. Like what. Radhan still loved and waged war.
Discovering the Stone-Coffin Fissure on my own was pretty much an Ash Lake moment. And the very simple lore revelation, and why it is there, just made the whole thing for me. Brilliant.
@zacharyperlee4179 it's where Miquella shed the aspect of himself that could love, which was St.Trina. And what can an Age of Compassion be without the ability to love?? And he buried it in the most forgotten part of the world because he wouldn't want anyone to know he shed this part of him, as it guarantees his rule will be no better than that of his mother.
@@jjstraka1982 huh, I figured out that he buried st Trina, but didn't realize the implications regarding how that invalidates Miquella's idea of a age of compassion
I spend the first day free roaming across the map like it was a horse simulator and I ended up at St Trina entrance still locked, I knew the message when entering Black Keep was about that and I rushed there, it broke my heart. The art direction of Trina is amazing but I wish we had more of this aspect in the dlc
Okay I have a theory that Godwyn was initially supposed to be Miquella's Consort. After Godwyn's death, there is proof Miquella instead of trying to revive him as is, instead laments saying in the Golden Epitaph description "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." We give Radahn a true death through the festival and he was revived because of it. Was the death of Godwyn's soul alone a factor to stop his resurrection? If he was supposed to be his consort it would completely make sense not only emotionally but logically why he would both lament his half-dead festering monstrosity of a brother and hope for a true death for him. He clearly had respect for him and probably saw similar qualities in Radahn. In the remembrance it mentions Radahn's kindness, and strength that they each had, Godwyn had shown for Fortisaxx, and Radahn his scrawny horse Leonard. So many parallels that I think it's very likely.
I also think Miquella and Godwyn had more of a relationship than what is actively shown. I know this is a stretch but it has stuck with me since I saw it on reddit. The statue that shows Miquella and his sister being held by a third person, most likely an alive Godwyn. (male figure with long hair and a similar crown to the one Miquella wears) Well, that statue has the Blight (a plant spawned from Godwyn) growing on only one spot on the whole statue... It looks like the game artist deliberately placed it there and once you see it, you cannot unsee it. The plant is sprouting out of Miquella's ass. Like the redditor said, Idk if it is a joke or supposed to mean something more.
Godwyn was probably going to take Mohg's place as a vessel. I feel like he was destined to die from the very beginning and become the true prince of death, but Ranni's meddling ruined that and got him stuck with a dead soul and living body.
@@mojus2890 A consort can also mean a companion in cases outside of romance. That's straight up what's happening with Radahn here, so I wouldn't necessarily say it had to be in the form of a wife or child.
@@Ultradocker tbh I was kinda just joking a bit about Fromsoft stories being hard to understand but I do actually understand the main story of the dlc. There are some other things I don’t understand though that I’m hoping to get some answers for at some point.
@@scrublord7922 nah, I understood elden ring and bloodborne. You guys just need to think outside of the box more, and read item descriptions for hints.
SmoughTown has been championing the idea that the Greater Will was way more than just another Outer God for a while now, among other things due to how the original Japanese consistently uses different terminologies when referring to the Greater Will (using language that is reminiscent of the Biblical God) and Outer Gods (who seem to be more similar to the Kami of Shinto tradition). Looks like the DLC provided more evidence in favour of his position
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez More like…there’s Kami of every stature. From the big heavenly Kami who act as the gods of a traditional pantheon, to Kami representing literally every force of nature. The mighty goddess of the sun can be a Kami, but so can be the spirit of a random ass old tree. Or literally poop. Everything in nature has a soul. There’s Kami for everything. I guess while we roughly translate Kami as gods, maybe a closer term is spirits. There’s lesser nature spirits for everything that exists, and greater spirits that are more traditional gods. Yes, something like the god of rot could probably totally work as an impure Kami.
@@ahmadabusamra9785 I tend to agree a lot with SmoughTown's theories, especially given that he often goes out of his way to learn how English localisation may make some subtle but substantial changes from the original Japanese. And his compilation videos are really good
Bro just wanted to lead his group of Blood followers in peace and carnage. You know, the normal for the Lands in Between. But instead, he was sadly charmed by Miquella. What a terrible fate.
It seems to me that Miquella will end up repeating Marika's actions, the fact he chose Radahn. His Age of Compassion is enforce by Radahn thru endless war. Submit to Miquella or die by the hands of Radahn.
I'm curious why he needed radahn, when he already had Malenia. Who'd do anything for him anyways. Did Malenia march on radahn for miquella or to prove something to miquella.
@@abhitejvelore Well, Miquella seem to already made a vow along time ago, he is hell bent on keeing his vow. Radahn clearly left an impression of young Miquella.
@@abhitejvelore no the reason is Malenia was an empyrean. And I think an Empyrean can't become another Empyrean's consort. That's why he chose radahn. Like Ranni chooses us.
@@chonkhampter this makes sense when I think about it. Otherwise I can't imagine any other reason miquella needs anyone else. Malenia is right there to do as he orders.
What I like about the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC is that it pulls no punches in showing off the horrors of war and mass slaughter similar to some scenes from George R.R. Martin’s “A Song of Ice and Fire” books.
@@VictorIV0310 the irony of the games and the books is that despite the heavy themes and the grim realities they display, you feel sucked into these worlds and fantasize about being apart of them, and kind of are when you play the games. When I read or watch anything ASOIAF, it’s fun to fantasize about being a knight or a sellsword, then you turn the page and it’s “oh this guy got pinned under his horse, broke his leg, was captured, and then died from infection”. Good times.
@@Hellohello-mn2bj No, its a book series called A song of Ice and fire, the tv show was GOT. Right now, Jon Snow is still bleeding out in the snow and the only real slaughter described in detail in present tense was the Red Wedding, the only real battles (and aftermath) seen from the perspective of Tyrion Lannister and Jon.
A nice detail with Bayle is that Placidusaxs two missing head are biting down on his neck. One is right behind his right horn and the other a bit further to the left.
Damn Ging, literally just finished everything in the DLC and the final boss like 5 minutes ago and was wondering when you would upload. Absolute perfect timing, this is why you’re my favorite!
I like how your story explanations are a bit more simple than vaatis. He goes a bit too much in depth, whereas your explanations are a bit more simple. I appreciate it
It’s kinda wild that the Minor Erdtree spell and the golden braid are (probably?) the only look into Marika’s mindset that we’re ever going to get, since (as far as I know) every single time she’s referenced, it always states her actions and leaves out her motivations and feelings concerning said actions. And even then, what we got is still very vague since the braid doesn’t specify what Marika’s wish/confession was.
I speculate that Marika's wish was a simple act of vengeance against those who have contributed to the destruction of her village, that being the Hornsent. Upon making the wish, the Divine Gates ascended her to Godhood, which then gave her enough power to send Messmer and his men to commit genocide on the Hornsent. Knowing that this genocidal act is effectively blasphemy against the normal laws of the Golden Order, she abandoned Messmer and in turn the Shadow Lands in order to sweep it all under the rug and maintain proper Order under her rule. I do also speculate that the revelation that contributed to Marika Shattering the Elden Ring was also her realizing who Metyr was, as it would effectively mean her entire life and rule was built under a complete lie. This would naturally cause her to lose it entirely and attempt to rebel against the Golden Order by Shattering the Elden Ring, which would provoke punishment from the Elden Beast.
@@MrZalgo-ml2iw why did the greater Will leave metyr without any instructions tho? It just sends metyr and the elden beast to the lands between and just leaves without warning?
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez We had already been told the Greater Will had abandoned the Lands Between. Fans just didn’t believe it lol. It likely saw how chaotic and violent mortals were and decided "screw you guys, I’m going home" since it’s an embodiment of Order. The Finger Morher went insane without any instructions and decided to try to impose order how it could and influenced Marika into creating the Golden Order. Marika, who likely wanted power to avenge her people, rolled with it. That’s my read.
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez so it could focus on another universe I guess. They saw how their brief influence caused so much conflict and war and decided to peace out
@@MrZalgo-ml2iwGreater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering as stated in the intro cutscene and is not responding as we saw in the base game when the fingers try to commune with GW. Metyr also was probably abandoned after or during the shattering not since the beginning. Marika also communed with the greater will and it sent the elden beast to become the erdtree during her time as we saw in the story trailer. Elden stars item description says once the greater will sent a golden star to the lands between and after dlc we know now that metyr was the first and the elden beast later. Marika broke the elden ring because of Godwyn's death as the intro states it sent her to the brink which probably reminded her of the hornsent massacre of her village. Godwyn's death is the catalyst for the shattering and the shattering and the inability of the demigods to restore order is probably why the greater will left.
Nanaya is likely a finger maiden like Hyetta, as she got her eyes covered, gaslighted Midra to "endure", and crafted a previous failed lord into that torch. Her corpse is also uninjured, hinting that she just "left" it and probably possessed someone else, like Hyetta possessed Irina
Where do we find ANY in-game lore about Midra or Nanaya? I loved the area where his mansion is located at and was very excited about Midra in the trailer, but when I finally reached to him, I got so disappointed. Killed him first try, saw no lore about him whatsoever, and still don't know what was the motivation of my character to kill him.
@@thulsa_doomI think it has something to do with the description of Nanaya's torch found on what is assumedly her corpse, the items and Remembrances involving Midra, and the fact that everything within the manor and its boundaries are afflicted with the madness.
I think miquella 's noble virtue and his fatal flaw, like in ratatosker's vid on the other demigods, is that miquella is either too loving or too empathetic, and in doing so he felt he had to atone for marika's sins by tossing away everything. Completely tearing down the old order. But even this will fail as he does toss away his love, and without that how can you have true compassion. (Not that the plan was great before.) And now the coming age of compassion he promises will probably be fucked up in some way. Once again age of duskborn, age of stars and age of perfect order stay winning.
@@blobymcblobface duskborn brings those who live in death into the order, and brings godwyn back to life, though as part of the elden ring as a new rune. It's the ending you get doing fias questline
@@TheMoon-ev3sx "However ruined this world has become, however mired in torment and despair, life endures. Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not? If you would become Lord, do not deny this notion. Please, leave the Frenzied Flame alone." And it's true! There's still hope, there's still beauty in the lands between, I think there's chances for it to go forward, under better orders rather then burning it all away.
Feel bad for Messmer, the only child of Marika who wasnt given a chance in life. Marika sent him away and abandoned him to fight in an eternal war, knowing she will never see him again, all because he was allficted by an outer god (the Abyssal Serpent). All while her other kids thats been afflicted by other outer god have the chnace to become gods themselves. She really threw him in the dark dirty basement, locked it with chains and threw away the key.
@@abdieljove2011 marika is pobably half omen too,she probably sealed all the omens in the lands between to forget her past,to forget the atrocities that the hornsents did to her people and the atrocities she did to them
This DLC confirmed what I’ve been saying fit ages. This fanbase has obsessed with the greater Will for ages thinking it’s an Outer God and the true main villain of the story when it’s literally just a plot point for world building and barely involved in the actual plot. Its role is in the creation story. It splitting the One Great. Reference to Odin creating the universe from Ymir since ER loves Norse mythology. It also sent the Elden ring down and granted creatures sentience. And seems to be an embodiment of order and its counterpart is Frenzied Flame. That’s…it. It bailed on the Lands Between ages ago. It pretty much went "you guys can’t stop fighting. Cringe." and pissed off. The fingers are just abandoned creations. Now we know they were obeying the Mother of Fingers, who hasn’t heard from the Greater Will in ages and has gone insane. And driving Marina’s insanity as a result. Marika probably wanted revenge for her people, and to create a peaceful age of plenty, made a pact with finger mommy and everything went downhill from there lol
that explains the 3 fingers. Greater Will seperated the whole which contained both good and evil and created Two Fingers which represent order (if you look at pictures of Jesus you can see the two fingers) but inadvertently also created 3 fingers which embody evil. This seperation can be seen in multiple creation myths from all around the world. Hence why the 3 fingers want to burn everything, to return to singularity of being you can look into what Wahdat Al Wujut is if you are curious about the subject which is also heavily inspired by Zoroastrianism since it was the areas previous religion and Zoroastrianism is heavily flame oriented belief. They still have literal undying flames in Ateshgah of Baku which also means Place of Fire. I'm happy the dlc explained that Greater Will wasn't a space yatzhee as many people seemed fixated upon and from discussions i remember people being very in favor of Omens like "hurr durr how could Golden Order do this" well apparently horned people were the og bad guys, who woulda thunk. i mean these facts were given enough proof in vanilla version but people refused to see em
@@NashQlaimthe "bad omens" were hornsent. The newly born omens were no different than humans of the golden order or outside it, and they were not given much chance to live. Marika became as much an oppressor as the Hornsent
@@NashQlaim -The Greater Will came in existence AFTER the fracture of the One Great. How could the GW fractured the OG if everything in existence came from the OG? If the GW embodies Order, it is only natural that this other entity became Chaos. -Stars are at the heart of Elden Ring, it would make more sense that a Big-Bang-like event would have fractured the One Great, giving birth to everything -there is no notion of good and evil, but Chaos and Order. If the 2 Fingers really stood for Jesus, there would be no 3 Fingers but an upside-down 2 Fingers (Baphomet aka the Devil also has this imagery of the 2 fingers, 2 pointing upward, 2 pointing downward. "As above, so below" ) -The "one being" thingy came from Platon. Zarathustra only introduce the idea of 1 god instead of several. And we meet several gods in Elden Ring. -Marika sending the Tarnished outside of the Land Between looks a lot like his "allegory of the cave", where the Tarnished would struggle and die out of the cave (where they can learn by themselves what is Good (with a capital G) and what is not), then are brought back and take the mantle of Elden Lord to lead the Lands Between in a new age, with a knowledge only them could have. -I think it's also Platon who talks about man and woman being each one half of 1 being, reason why Marika and Radagon are 1 being, Miquella and Trina also. People don't refuse things. They just have their own interpretation. But mostly don't think by themselves and just repeat what they heard somewhere else. Thus, they don't even understand why they think what they think, no wonder they get mad when they can't defend what they say, that's called cognitive dissonance. That's how you get non-sense things like " Jesus = the 2 Fingers ". If you want christianity in Elden Ring, just look at how Marika is depicted in her statues AND inside the Erdtree : shaped like a... cross
Honestly, I kinda get the idea that the Greater Will isn’t immortal. I think the story of this creature is supposed to mimic the suggestion of, “What if God was real and DID create the universe we know, but was not immortal, all-knowing, or unique?” The idea that any one of us could create an entire universe inside of a Petri dish where millions of generations of things will live and die before we pass on ourselves. It would make more sense why the Greater Will just fucked off. Made the whole place but it’s so old that it’s just dead and nobody can communicate with it anymore but keep pretending like they’re following the will of this god.
The greater will = mandate from heaven = divine right of kings, etc. pretty much it just a narrative of new power justifying their rule over or replacing the old power
Awesome video! I was noting down characters and their lore whilst playing, and got super lost when I entered Shadowkeep, now I know I completely missed the "somewhere a great rune has broken" sign and the whole dialogue you can have with Miquellas squad that lets you know they were charmed..
@@julianodobler2782 Me neither. This dlc answered a lot of my old questions but it also gave me a fvck ton of new ones. But for now it's safe to say that we owe the horn-y boy an apology.
I think there is a reason why the three fingers aren’t mentioned in Metyr’s description and it’s because the greater will created everything by shattering the one great and the frenzied flame saw that as a mistake and sought to destroy everything the greater will created by melting it all away, and the greater will are shown to punish anyone who goes against them or seeks to destroy their order like with the nox for example, so it would make sense why Metyr wouldn’t create the envoys of the frenzied flame which are basically the antithesis of the greater will.
When your searching for Midra’s and you stumble across those weird things you have to parry in order to kill, if you read the description of the item it drops it says something about the Swollen Grape being “Marked with fingerprint burns, proof of having being touched directly by the Three Finger’s embrace” so those weird things have some sort of connection with the three fingers.
I'm pretty sure it's confirmed now that Melina is a daughter of Marika, or at least the sister of Messmer, because there's an item description that mentions Messmer had a vision of burning "like his younger sister". apologies, I don't remember which item, but it's just after you defeat him that you get it
Also now that we have the new black butterfly it kinda confirms the smoldering butterflies are Melina’s (which would also then make her a child of Marika)
I had assumed that Merika's village was destroyed in some random act (violence, plague, whatever) and her prayer was "for it all to make sense" which is why she was chosen as the avatar of the Golden Order, to force the world to make sense. With that finger ruins right next to the village, I thought that's where the first fingers would have fallen too. And for that matter, the other finger ruins being nestled right in the abyssal forest with all the frenzy seemed like the three fingers would have landed there.
@@iambluetooth1430I think three fingers was just a anomaly. And Frenzied Flame God used that as a vessel. Because Hyetta's words make sense with this: *Greater Will made a mistake.*
Interesting interpretation but I'm not too sure about it. The Fingers seem predate the Golden Order since it's sort of implied Metyr fell shortly after or possibly around the time of the Elden Beast. And we know the Elden Ring(which is the Elden Beast) has been around since the reign of the Ancient Dragons. All of which predate Marika. Not to mention that all the evidence surrounding the Hornsent and the Shamans really seem to push the idea that the Hornsent were fanatics who completely subjugated and massacred the Shamans.
My theory about Three Fingers is this: We know the all two fingers and fingercreepers mother is Metyr. The first fallen star to the lands between. But Elden Beast form doesn't match with Finger ruins. Its not a finger afterall. But Metyr seems like she has 3 heads. Maybe when she fell down to earth she crushed into pieces like meteors? Then she united as Metyr? Three fingers doesn't look like special, it has just one more finger. Humans also can have this anomalies. Like born with tail, extra arms or legs etc. And in some old cultures families even abandoned these babies. These poor babies were seeing as curse from Gods. Crows for another example. Albino crows always excluded from their nests. So in this situation, three fingers excluded from the nest, isolated, rebelled and called Frenzied Flame God without knowing. So, three fingers cursed abyssal forest and after that event Marika or Messmer himself locked Three Fingers to the depths of sewers. This can be our answer why we found Three Fingers in depths. Because we know two fingers can't be killed. Three fingers is not an expection. It has just one more finger xd
1:22 Needle Knight?! Needle as in Hornet? Miyazaki must know the release date. Silksong 2024 Confirmed. Jokes aside thanks for putting out this video so I can understand how Miquella has some Radahn clones lying around.
@@ЕкатеринаСеренкова It has been a long and silent wait. I Heard Leda call herself "needle knight" while I was playing and it hit me like a sleeper cell activation phrase.
I can’t help but wish that Godwyns souls had been used since it was the one thing that died and Miquella has a whole story about trying to bring him back with the eclipse. The bodies of two brothers and soul of a third would have fit really well rather than then 2/3rds Radahn
Exactly, why wasn’t Godwyn’s body used as the vessel instead of mohg with Radahns soul? Why weren’t we given a Godwyn fight after alll the lore & setup prior? It’s disappointing tbh.
@@SilentiumCivis The whole Radhan thing just comes out of left field and makes the whole battle of Caelid between him and Malenia seem like a stupid spat, tbh. It kinda ruined a lot of the game's lore for me.
@@penrilfakeRadahn refused Miquella's request, so Miquella sent Malenia to kill Radahn to use his soul, but Radahn fought back and held the stars at bay so his fate with Miquella would not happen.
My interpretation is that Rahdan refused to horner the vow, so Miquella sent Melania to kill rahdan so he could take his soul and charm him into becoming his consort.
This explains Godricks grafting ability for me, as he was a partial descendant of the shamans. And while he knew the poem of his grandmothers wish, "One day we will return together, to our home, bathed in rays of gold ", he didnt know its meaning.
Lore spoilers! I’ve been speculating that Messmer’s role in the Land of Shadow was an overseer installed by Marika to keep its denizens in check both as a form of exile for his blasphemy and a duty that she foisted on him until he will be allowed back into her arms. Turns out I was half right; While I don’t know his exact feelings on the matter when he waged war against the land, he was indeed tasked with lording over the land as a dreaded “devil” figure for its denizens to focus their hatred on. Messmer also hated his fire powers and had a serpent within him that he tried to get rid of but to no avail. Marika plucked out one of his eyes and placed a seal of grace to keep the snake within before having him kept away in the Land of Shadow, presumbably erasing him from history. He also sounds quite weary in his boss introduction where he seems reluctant to fight us but accepts it as his duty nonethless and second phase cutscene where he looks at the Marika statue before ripping his eye out. For him to curse Marika in his dying breath, he must’ve carried such lifelong resentment towards her. Poor guy. Also, if I’m not mistaken “Base” could mean an old, archaic term for vile, lowly, contemptuous or even bastard, hence the other term “baseborn” which could also refer to a bastard born out of wedlock?
I believe that Messmer & Melina are the bastards of Midra and Marika. They may have had a relationship during the time she sent Godfrey to deal with the fire giants. This would explain why Messmer & Melina both have Kindling and the ability to use fire. She then seals the snake curse within him and uses him as a warden to keep the denizens of the Land of Shadow at bay. (She may have also tried to get rid of Melina, I am not sure. It is stated by Melina that she doesn't have a physical form.) This would also explain the line within the trailer that talks about "an affair".
I don't think I'll ever get to prove this interpretation beyond just vibes, but I think Messmer did have a mix of love/hate towards Marika, and probably wanted to make her proud. Hence it's maybe likely he did the crusade or let all the blame for it fall on his shoulders because he believed it would please his mother. If he was old enough to accept it, he probably also accepted the seal of grace from her "willingly" (in quotes because under this interpretation it would've been from pressure to appease his mother again even if it hurt him). I guess the main driving force behind why I see it this way is his dialogue when the Tarnished meets and fights him. He says he won't suffer a lord bereft of the grace of gold, and I think that's because all his life, despite the serpent and the fire within him, he'd been fighting to defend that ideal of the grace of gold. of his mother, even at the expense of undoing the seal she put on him. But the Tarnished fighting to become Elden Lord basically with Marika's blessing is a spit in his face. What was he fighting for, bleeding for, debasing himself for if his mother can just change her mind that the grace of gold is actually no big deal and this lowly Tarnished is viable in her eyes to become Elden Lord? I'd curse her too if I was him.
@@andrewfornes5320Marika and Midra conceiving Melina and Messmer is most likely the correct answer, thought of it as well when I saw that painting in midras manse.
I wonder if markia actually planed to bring mesmer and crew back someday, but "things went tits up" as our good friend boggart would say. Maybe the knight of black knives and then shattering happened. Markia still planed to follow her original plan, but shes been imprisoned in the erdtree. Gotta love fromsoft, for ever 100 answers, we get 1000 new questions... ... and i wouldnt have it any other way, lol.
This is a great appetizer video before vaati makes 10 2 hour long+ videos explaining the finer details of every blade of grass in the dlc, lol. Not being rude, or putting you down, but this is a great kind of tldr for the vaati videos that are most definitely to come. great video and dang were people super wrong bout mohg.
"Dying honorably doesn't suit him" from Freyja doesn't really work as an explanation for Radahn agreeing to being the consort. She just said because she assume that Radahn would prefer to be battling forever over dying honorably, but she is assuming that Radahn would be ok with being revived and getting a second chance, essentially cheating death. Throughout history, this concept is not something that honorable fighters would favor, because it would mean that they are getting an unfair advantage over their opponent. In this case was getting a "Come back from death for free" card while Malenia didn't. For this reason I definitely interpret that Radahn was completely fine with meeting an honorable death since he pushed Malenia to her absolute limit with his own skills and strength, making her forsake her own honor by nuking everything in order to satisfy Miquella's wish, which was to kill Radahn at all cost to make his soul available for his plan to achieve godhood.
Great video and also, it's so good to see someone pronounce "scadu" the correct way! I've seen this prefix while studying Tolkien's writing and I finally understood why the portuguese translation of Shadowfax is Scadufax. Basically it comes from Sceadu-fæx from old english.
I have a question, how exactly did miquella ascend to godhood? Marika did it by joining with the elden ring or something like that, but miquella very clearly didn't use anything related to the ring, he even threw away his great rune. Did his sacrifice of everything he was, alongside his semi-divinity, allow him to ascend and become fully divine? The miquella he get to know is gone, he died slowly and methodically as he left everything he was behind in is path to godhood, and he does succeed, he fight him as a full fledged, new born god. To be honest, i am curious about the gate of destiny of divinity or whatever it's called, that miquella used to ascend, what is it's origin and how does it work?
Defeating the final boss gives a drop of a crown of sorts that Miquella was wearing. Reading the description implies that it would have been the equivalent of his Elden Ring
I frickin knew it, I KNEW Mohg was being used by Miquella!!! It was the first impression I got from them when learning about how Miquella is “compelling” and super influential. It made too much sense.
I have a feeling that Midra is the father of Messmer and Melina. The reason why I think this is the fact that the trailer mentions "an affair" and the fact that Messmer was around before Radagon was with Renalla. I believe when Godfrey was away killing the fire giants, Marika and Midra had Messmer & Melina. I think she then tried to hide both of them (after sealing away the snake curse within Messmer) and used Messmer & an army given to him by his parents to go and fight in the land of shadows. By this time, Marika would've known Renalla so she would probably be able to persuade Rellana to fight for him, either as Marika or Radagon. We also know that Messmer & Melina both have kindling within them and the ability to burn the Erdtree. Those traits probably come from Midra.
Hear me out, what if radagon/marika was the father and the gloam eyed queen was the mother, this would also explain why melina has the one gloam eye on the left and why messmer is missing his left eye
haven’t seen anyone mention it yet but the shaman village is actually something that gets lost in translation. in japanese it’s referred to as the miko village, miko being shrine maidens.
The part near the end about the finger mother really hit me there, I love that they would throw such a powerful curveball at us by showing that the finger maidens and the crones were basically being misled and were following a false idol
i just wow. miyazaki made another masterpiece. in all fromsoft games i love the lore more than the gameplay and this video answered like 90% of my questions about the story of the whole game in general
@@Midra_lord_of_frenzied_flame Nah he right, the other fromsoft games deliver their lore in a much more satisfying way, you know most of the things you want to know whereas with elden ring we don't get half the answers we want, not to mention ER clearly has the worst boss design philosophy yet, bosses spam and delay attacks to no end
My theory is the realm of shadow is inside the erdtree, and Marika was holding it closed until the elden ring was shattered which then broke the gate between the two, sort of like the underworld. It would explain why Bayle is there as he was killed by Placidusax, we know Radahn is dead because we kill him, and miquella was dead in the cocoon, perhaps Metyr hasn’t heard the outer will because it also died and is stuck in limbo. It’d explain all the ghosts/graves and why it’s unseen on the map. The warrior jars indicate some messed up rebirth ritual, so it’s possible Messmer is there to prevent any omens or other who don’t follow the golden order from being reborn
I knew what malenia whispered mattered so much even years ago. I also guessed miquella was solely trying to ascend to godhood and had bewitched mogh. It's nice being proven right Also guessed Melina was directly Marikas daughter
Thank you for this video. When I was speed reading through Freyja's dialogue, I accidentally skipped the line about Miquella wishing to revive Radahn's soul since I pressed the skip button right when the previous line ended. I was SO confused by people saying that they had revealed the final boss half way through
The frenzy flame ending is just! I am certain we can take the frenzy flame ending given by hyetta as fact. The mistakes happening under the greater will is taxing a penultimate diety, the one great. A vicious Ying to the greater wills yang. Also, the frenzy flame never seemed like destruction, but rather just a reset. Imo
@DronesOverTheMoon After my experience with everyone in The Lands Between. I came to the conclusion that everyone deserves to burn. Besides maybe Morgott, Godfrey, and goldmask, as they are aware of the mistakes Marika/Others made. And innocents like roderika and the blacksmith. The DLC only reinforced this ideal
@@tacticalmattress So your telling me your experience with one specific part of the whole world is more than enough to decide to destroy existance itself? Damn my guy
Just like a famous quote said by Petyr in GOT states "Chaos is a ladder",everything is making sense now the plot twist where we find out that the GW has forsaken mertyr,for mertyr to forsaken the two fingers,and for the two fingers to forsaken marika was great. This new lore just prove that there was no bad guy from the beginning,and everyone was just in chaos from the confusion that happened,marika got tired of the BS said by the two fingers and realized that the perfect order she tried to create was ultimately based on a lie,and tried her best to hide her massacre of the hornsent,she later broke the ER,hoping to be freed from the manipulation of the golden order
Gingy, would love to see you do a deep dive for your "mega video" and just really get into the weeds of some of the details. I know that might make it like a 12hr video or something, but real talks, I leave your videos on while I work, so 12hrs is actually a mega blessing
Honestly it may be a hot take but I'm not a big fan of radahn being the final boss. There are a lot of aspects of the dlc I do like narratively but I think they should have let radahn die and let either godwyn or another deity take the center stage. At the very least you could have had Radahn be killed and then another deity appear like in the base game connected to Miquella. I've enjoyed a lot about this game but the very ending left a bad taste for me. Hopefully a potential further expansion of some sort will answer a bit more about Marika but we will see.
At first i was disappointed, but reflecting its pretty good and ties pretty well with the story/lore. That's why Malenia fought Radahn, also that's why she never tried to rescue Miquella from Mohg and was simply waiting. She was waiting Miquella return as a god from the realm of shadow.
Regarding Wether Radahn is/ wanted to die honourably, you have to remember that in the base game, Radahn IS dead - his brain has been destroyed by scarlet rot - The Radahn we are told about no longer exists there, but in the Shadow Realm. It's likely the Festival is to just honour his original body and finally put it to rest. Radahns real wishes won't be known
Holy moly the details are gigantic, there are so maaaany horrific and beautiful symbolics and philosophical aspects in the entire lore - a very unique level of cosmic horror and writting in video media *-*
I read the Malenia Vs Radahn fight happening due to Miquella putting his plan into swing using Mogh. Malenia likely wasn't in the loop on all the details, but knew enough to suspect his brother's future consort, Radahn. So when Miquella goes missing, she obviously had some questions for Radahn, thinking it was him who ran off with Miquella. The Shattering is raging, and the ever protective Malenia might not have been comfortable with Miquella being alone without guard with the mightiest demigod of the shattering, Radahn. Perhaps she feared Radahn would harm or intended to kill Miquella to take his Great rune? Being Miquella's main enforcer and bodyguard, Malenia wasn't about to sit around and find out either. So she gathers her knights and begins the long march to meet the general to forcefully ask him about the matter personally. As who else could it be? Worth noting too, if Miquella was to divest himself of many things, Malenia would be high on the list. She would also likely be a constant emotional anchor that holds him back from going all in on the scheme, and thus it would be easier to rip chunks, emotions and parts of himself out if Malenia was no longer a factor. Or more, having her sacrifice herself as a pawn on the board, it would make it easier to use the grief of loss to rip chunks of himself out. Only, complications arise. Instead of just getting killed by Radahn Malenia both survived and bloomed, managing to infect Radahn with the incurable scarlet rot. Something the full ramifications of Miquella would be all too aware of with his experiments and studies in trying to cure Malenia of her affliction. Miquella knew what scarlet rot was, and just how much of a blow this was to his plans. So he had to get creative using what he had. How very fortunate for Miquella that the demigod pawn Mogh had suitable flesh to be harvested. Perhaps he even saw there being a chance something happens to Radahn with the shattering underway, and thus it being handy to have a spare source for a new flesh suit to house his soul in around? A kind of double whammy plan where Mogh was both a required tool pawn, and a contingency plan component? A good plan after all always has contingencies in places where critical failures might occur, and makes very effective use of available resources to their fullest effect. Though, if Miquella had to divest himself of everything, Radahn would be included in this. So remaking him might also have been a part of the plan. As we are told many times: Malenia was the blade of Miquella. And what is a blade, but a tool? Tools can be cast aside when no longer needed. And with the Shattering going on, Radahn would be very unlikely to view Malenia coming knocking with her forces in tow as anything but a challenge to battle. As Malenia slapping Godrick shows, she had no time for nonsense on her march and didn't care about greater runes. Just shutting him up and moving along was enough. Plus, I doubt Radahn could resist the chance to duel one of the mightiest warriors around/pit his forces against hers. He lived for battle, so there likely was very little parley or talking before bloodshed began. Furthermore, I believe this all reframes the Castle Sol prayers. Miquellas prayers for his brother to die a true death were never for Godwyn. But Radahn. Because it was vital to Miquella's plans. Showing his Radahn 2.0 project had also been underway for a long time. He has been at this plan for a very long time, trying different things.
Malenia was aware of Miquella plan, she was waiting him to return as a god. That's why she never even tried to rescue him from Mohg. Also in the first trailer when Malenia speaks in Radahn ear its revealed she delivered Miquellas massage that he was awaiting him to be his consort.
Oh, and about Godwyn: Based on lore, there is a solution to dealing with him. His soul is long gone, yes? And he is just a dead body now growing out of control? What do we know that was long ago used to burn dead bodies? And, as implied by newer spell descriptions, can even burn Death? Ghostflame of course! As Godwyn is part tree, and we now have two counts of just needing the right kind of kindling fire to burn magical trees, Godwyn's body is likely no different. Ghostflame kindling of a powerful enough nature would be basically the perfect way to deal with his corpse. The reason this wasn't done already is the Golden Order was in charge and banned such heresy. Ghostflame was an enemy of their religious order. And it's nothing new for religious orders to scoff at practical solutions to large issues if it goes against their own belief system. If they went with ghostflame before he grew all over the place, the collateral damage of setting him on fire wouldn't also be as dire as it is now with Godwyn being everywhere.
@@naka3339 Yes, she was aware of parts of it. But would Miquella tell her all of the details? That's the main crux of my post. Malenia might have had an incomplete picture as Miquella, being a planner and schemer, saw it prudent to not give her the whole package. A good manipulator tells enough to let people come to their own conclusions about their aims and goals, after all. Miquella is a planner, schemer, and manipulator above all else. Regardless: If we go with Malenia being filled in on the whole plan, then that also raises a few odd questions. Was the whole march of her forces just a way to get to talk with Radahn during the Shattering? Were they there to just escort her so she got to him safely enough? And the only way to tell Radahn this message was to duel him? But then, why would Malenia have allowed the scarlet rot to bloom within herself? She deliberately stopped holding back and let it happened in point-blank range of Radahn. Unless the intent was to remake Radahn and Malenia was meant to do that to kill him. Only for Radahn to tank it despite getting his mind erased. But then, telling him any messages would be pointless. Short of as a dramatic gesture before going kaboom in his face. And Miquella full well knowing how bad of a thing scarlet rot was would make it risky to expose Radahn to it. Miquella had no way of knowing the outer god of rots scarlet rot wouldn't infect a being's soul in some way or another. So would he gamble that and potentially fumble a key component of his plan? Depends on if he was in a gambling mood, and the plan was to remake Radahn the whole time. Risking it all with unknowable factors does seem a tad risky with how masterfully Miquella constructed his plans to have as few critical potential failure points as possible. I see the merits in the reasoning your point brings up. It does work and flow if the whole point was to remake Radahn. Malenia being a nuclear biobomb to plant in his face and having her pull the pin, with her knights a way to get Radahns attention and to clear a way to him. Only for Radahn to unbeliavable somehow live and nobody being able to put him down, meaning Miquellas plan was locked in stasis like the fate controlling stars above. Hey, wait a minute! Perhaps the reason Radahn didn't die was the stars were held at bay? Meaning the fates they governed couldn't advance. We know the Carrians fates were especially effected. So Radahn's own fate as a Carrian would be included in this too!
I think we can all agree if anyone wanted an extra great rune, godrick would be the first to go. Just drop by storm viel and ask for it in a stern voice and it'd probably be theirs.
I'm kinda upset that the final boss is just Rhadan resurrected and he doesn't even give us any dialogue to go with it. It would've been pretty sweet if we had to face Messmer, who's trying to stop the new age of compassion and then we see Miquella come down to help us because they recognize us as they're consort. Seeing Miquella bewitching everyone was really interesting to learn but I think if they had made it to where it was because he was genuinely a good demigod and not because of some spell it would've been more interesting. To get all the way to the end just to kill Miquella feels kinda empty. In the other endings you're able to bring anout new ages and it feels like we were robbed of getting to see Miquela's age. Though I guess you could say that's the whole point with his character following in his Mother's footsteps trying to be different only to suffer the same result 😅
Spoilers, I guess? I’m glad I was spoiled on the final boss being Radahn Round 2 because that’s like really stupid. Was there a single thing linking him and Miquella in the base game? Really feels like he was only thrown in because he was well received by the fan base. Just think if Godrick had as much love as Radahn, we could’ve gotten Godrick, round 3!
@@ASAP_Kenny skip radahn part, Mogh + Godwyn would actually be awesome, as it stands it absolutely sucks, radahn fanboys will defend it and uncritical room temp iq twats will eat it up even if Miazaki and Martin shit on their plate. Elden ring had week story and dlc made it weeker. I hope they return to traditional in the next game.
I don't think it was like that. The story of the DLC is still part of the original worldbuilding GRRM did for Elden Ring, so we can assume this was already planned from the beginning, even if there was practically nothing tying Miquella and Radahn together. So I don't think this was "due to fanboys of Radahn"
Great video! I havent even finished the DLC, I'm mainly in it for the lore lmao, so this is a really good groundwork video while I look at all the other stuff in game.
@@marumae Miquella was a prodigy in the Golden Order so it is possible Radahn would have accepted his proposal if he thought it was for the best of the golden order. Once Miquella abandoned the golden order, I could see Radahn feeling that Miquella broke his vow first. Then we get the fight with Melania vs Radahn
we never learn what vow they made. It could be other thing like "free Marika". But it's pretty clear Radahn did not kneel for Miquella since he sent Malenia to kill him on order to have his soul ( also she almost died in the process and failed because Radahn is too much of a badass )
Why are people assuming that he was "loyal" to the Golden Order? He coveted the throne like all the rest and even sieged the capital, leading Morgott to call him a wilful traitor just like his siblings. He was a Godfrey fanboy, sure, and he was proud to be Radagon's son, but as soon as the Shattering occurred, all the bets were off and Radahn was just another Demigod vying for the throne. But since he wasn't an Empyrean, the best he could hope for was acting as the Lord Consort of one. And since Malenia had no interest in seeking God hood of her own right, his best bet would've been Miquella.
Something about metyr I thought was interesting. In base game the spell thop’s barrier implies that sorcery and incantations might be closer related then either would like to admit. Metyr’s staff let’s you cast both sorcery and incantations. My theory is that the greater will and or metyr might be the main source of all magic in the lands between.
I still feel after this video, slightly disappointed with the story, because it just reeks of cut and reshuffled content into something that just works instead of being fully fleshed out to me, I just feel like it could've done with more fleshing out as the main story of the DLC feels so inconsequential and the fact the DLCs ending doesn't feel like an ending at all, especially when you look at the fact that other bosses in the DLC could have been considered the final boss without a proper ending.
@@Andrew_S1 I don’t even think it’s that for me, I like the idea of the story and what they were kinda trying with it it’s just they fell short and didn’t flesh it out as much as it needed, and it’s part of my disappointment with that that although I know there won’t be I’d hope for another DLC so that it could have a story to really finish off or clear up some of the last lore threads and flesh out some of the story more
Fantastic, thank you so much for explaining the story. I go back-and-forth on whether or not this game would be better if it was more direct with its storytelling but at the very least I’m glad I can learn about it here.
Zero lore build-up for Radhan to be done dirty. Making Miquella be griffith 2.0 was lame and the most predictable outcome, what a let down. This crap prolly makes more sense with the full scrip of rr alabamartin. However that lame-O and miyahacky had every bit of a choice not to include even more alabamian PDFly garbo, yet here we are. Thanks for ruining a great game, if you can tolerate this under the chill bro is just fiction, have no patience for cowardice nor disgusting shit the authors willingly add.
this is the first time i got a big part of the lore while playing, the main story was really easy to understand, and the rest was just a matter of reading item descryptions
This dlc is incredible! Fromsoft absolutely killed it with this one, both story wise, and gameplay wise. I’ve only beaten it once so far and it’s only been out for a week but I’m really hoping we get a second dlc in the future!
5:35 you forgot to mention they were thrown into the golems alive. Idk if that’s mentioned in the item descriptions or dialogue, but you can tell just by looking at the bodies
15:28 speaking of Witch-Hunter Jerren, he could be considered a strange fellow, wearing cobled armor before setting down with the carrions. We never see his face his hood hides his beard is a helmet. Was told he is classified as a bloody finger when vanquished in selen fight so his true allegiances in the end are questionable, is he loyal to the carria family, Rohdan, Mohg, or miquila? Is miquila also part of the carria family as he has a following of Loretta and albinorics?
whats heartbreaking about messmer is what he says in his cutscene, he literally cannot believe that after his mother locked him away and forsakes him she would allow a lowly tarnished who is fundamentally as graceless as him to become a lord and not him. Like what a slap in the face
Ahh boo hoo Morgott/Mohg #3
Jokes aside, the premise is similar. Locked away and pushed aside.
I think more than anything he just want to return to the lands between, or at least hear a thing or two from Marika again, after who knows how many decades, if not centuries of lull.
Instead he encountered a tarnished he thought being sent there to clean up the evidence judging by how the guidance of grace is pointing to him.
@@spearsagethe implications were never good, in his head either we were a cruel joke of a lord that he never got to be or sent by his own mother to get rid of the crusade evidence
To be the lord means to be the consort of Marika. Messmer is Marika's child so he knew that there is no way he can be the lord. He's just pissed at the fact that Marika ordered him to massacre all people who don't have grace in their eyes for pretty much eternally, yet in the end made a tarnished the lord.
@@CYC_JP I want to clarify what it means to be a lord. Placidusax was consort of the gloam eyed queen. To be more specific to be a lord is to be married to the God of your age. I say God because Miquella becomes a God and Radahn is his consort
Edit 1: Why Placidusax was likely The Gloam Eyed Queen's consort
It is heavily implied since she is the empyrean that Marika replaced. In order to be a God, an Empyrean must have a consort, and we know for a fact that placidusax was Elden lord at some point.
Placidusax is also said to be awaiting the return of his God, and the Gloam Eyed Queen's fate isnt confirmed to be dead or alive aka she is missing [Godslayer Greatsword].
Most of what I've said comes straight from item descriptions it's not just me making stuff up, I'm simply making connections with known lore entries.
If you don't feel like this is strong enough evidence that's fine. Fromsoft lore is never set 100% in stone. I was simply trying to clarify what a Lord was. Regardless if I'm right about placidusax and the gloam eyed queen the clarification is still correct. Either way I'm not going to respond to anymore replies I don't care enough to do so.
If I remember correctly Godwyn isn't technically dead, just his soul. The night he was 'killed' Ranni was also killed, but instead of both of them dying for real her body died and soul lived on, whereas Godwyn's soul died and his body lived on. Thats why she can inhabit various puppets and he is stuck stuck.
@@TiakOSRS Indeed I should have clarified that I didn’t mean dead literally as his body is still present just like you said. I wanted to clarify the details about the faces in the DLC since I didn’t want people to assume Godwyn is alive and somehow made it here. Which is obviously not true.
@@Gingy Yeah I totally get that, if you start going too deep the video gets longer and longer. Absolute banger btw as usual
Yeah. His soul is gone, and his corpse can't decompose and is instead on some form of mystic metastasis where is acting as a bunch of tumors growing across the Lands Between, and for the looks of it now branching into the Realm of Shadows.
that makes me wonder if Ranni caught word of miquella's plan and decided to sabotage him since she also wanted her own age (age of stars) if that's the case, then it makes me mad FS didn't allow us to have a miquella ending called "age of compassion" where we choose to ally with him and mend the elden ring with his rune
The people of castle sol failed. Which means godwyn became a no go. I wonder if that’s when he decide to pick rahdan
There is no way that after 2 years Mohg beats the allegations. This DLC is wild
fr
mohg being groomed is a revelation of the century
Another victim of cancel culture smh
Wasn’t expecting that uno reverse 😭
@@thatlittlemonstrosityHAHHHHAHAHHAHAHA
The DLC has changed my views of Miquella's curse of eternal youth from being one that focuses on his fate to never come to fruition and instead is simply a curse that keeps him as a child. As powerful and talented as he is, in my eyes Miquella has always had the mindset of a naive child.
Instead of having his curse doom his endeavors to fail, its his childlike tendency to abandon a task in search of a new idea or plan that has been causing him to fail time and time again. Miquella failed to find a way to fully cure Malenia's Scarlet Rot, and instead moved on to the Haligtree as his next project when he got a temporary fix. His safe haven to the oppressed was left to wither and rot when he entered his cocoon to possibly free himself of his curse. Without any sign of looking back at the horrors he is doing by abandoning his projects and goals time and time again, Miquella fails to ever consider the true ramifications of his actions.
The DLC makes this all the more clear. His plan to enter the Shadow Lands to become a god make his theft from the Haligtree into him abandoning it, leaving his followers to wait for him endlessly as the Scarlet Rot overtakes them. His desire to have Radahn be his Lord due to his kindness and strength comes off as a child idolizing an older brother, failing to see Radahn as his true self: a blood thirsty warrior who craved glory and battle endlessly.
His journey through the Shadow Lands shows him walking a path that I truly do not believe Miquella understood the ramifications of. He abandons his core characteristics as a part of his ascension to godhood, not realizing that he will become "caged by divinity" as he naively condemns himself to being a puppet of the Greater Will or some other Outer God.
Even his Age of Compassion is corrupted by his childlike view on the world. Instead of truly leading and changing the world, Miquella charms people into following him. And judging by his dialogue in the final fight, I don't think Miquella understands how brainwashing people into compassionate and kind people is no better than making them his puppets.
Overall, I find Miquella to be a very interesting character: A godlike being with the naivety of a child.
This is such a good way to look at it, I always found the way miquella seemed to ignore the rammifications of his actions odd but when looking at it like this it makes perfect sense.
"failing to see Radahn as his true self: a blood thirsty warrior who craved glory and battle endlessly. " everything u said is correct and insightful except this part, which is objectively false and the games lore makes that very very clear. radahn was one of the kindest, he just lost his mind from scarlet rot and STILL had enough kindness in him to halt the stars and keep his horse, not to mention Gaius, and thats the entire point of miquella loving him.
not a single piece of lore or story ever indicates radahn was ever blood thirsty or even bad, in fact, the dude had an entire festival dedicated to ending his misery, he was almost as idolized as godwyn, which im a bit disappointed about his lore content in ER dlc, it aint much and im mad at miquella for not even mentioning him...godwyn was quite loved too, his friendship with fortisax, several regions having statues of him, and the one that got me the most was the one in haligtree, where hes seen cradling his little sisters/brother malenia and maquila, that little fucker truly abandoned everything to get what he wants and in the end he died for nothing and his results barely ever benefitted anyone, not even himself. just a kind, naive and all powerful child surrounded by a cruel cruel world, cruel gods and worse of all, an endlessly cruel mother.
and even marika herself left her last bits of kindness in the shaman village, this games lore man...it just hurts, and its the best lore fromsoft has ever done, my hats off to you fromsoft.
This is a really great reading of the lore presented via the dlc
Kindly miquella abandoned everything
You've made some great points here. I wish I could find this beyond in an youtube comment. This could be a short video or a post somewhere by itself.
We owe Mohg an apology
Oh yeah we do, dude died because we thought he was too gae for Miquella and was so weird. Turns out, Miquella was the real weird one and wants to marry his stepbrother Radahn, who Jarren specifically sends us to put to rest. Also, Mellenia deserved better, left all behind all broken and gone.
Mohglester was still a scumbag lol
@@myankoZuluTango3613 Radahn is Miquella's half brother which makes it even worse, but yeah. However there is a such thing as a non-romantic consort in Elden Ring.
After all that nihil bs? No. Nihil deez nuts
I think Miquella just wanted the strongest in the land to enforce his empire
There's a group of small but very vivid details that makes me convinced that Radahn, in fact, is highly opposed to Miquella's actions. Firstly - Radahn held back the stars which kept the fate of the empyreans. Doing so, it seems that he has stopped not only Ranni from acting but also blocked Miquella's actions that were meant to ascend him to godhood. That is, I believe, a reason for Malenia to strike at Radahn. He simply broke the vow and rejected Miquella. Secondly - it is stated that it was Miquella who saw a lord in Radahn. We don't get to see Radahn's response to that. It's simply implied that Miquella proposed something to his brother but we aren't told about his response. However, Malenia's actions are rather brutal and it seems dubious for Radahn to agree on blowing up the entire Caelid which was, in the end, the province that he had ruled. Moreover, if Radahn and Malenia agreed on having a duel, Radahn wouldn't have erupted with flames to stop the scarlet rot in his body. But he did erupted. Right, so also amidst the fight with Radahn in this DLC, he kneels down on the ground and erupts with fire. It's the same fire that he erupted during his fight with Malenia, which was later implied in Radahn's great rune that he did so in order to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot. Who is Radahn resisting then? The player? But the Tarnished cannot charm anybody. So it seems that Radahn's resisting Miquella's charm or perhaps the mismatch between Radahn's soul and Mohg's body becomes apparent to him, therefore he wishes to reject it. Seconds later however, Miquella steps through the gate of divinity only to quell the eruption of fire in his brother's body. Radahn's resolve has been put back on place, he stands up and subsequently fights the Tarnished yet again.
There's also another layer of lore to be found in regards to hornsent people as well as omens. So in the armors of hornsent warriors from Belurat it is implied that their horns serve the purpose of invoking the divinity. The true reason why Radahn must've died and his soul put into Mohg's body was because Mohg was an omen - therefore he was a hornsent. His body did not only serve the purpose of being merely a vessel. It was also used to invoke Miquella's divinity as he has stripped himself of everything human, thus making himself nothing but a transcendent spirit.
Lastly, there are two other details that shed some light on the Radahn's opinion on his brother's actions. First off - the name of the boss itself is "Promised Consort Radahn". It's "promised", not just "consort". I believe it's a soft implication that there is some kind of coercion going on when it comes to Radahn's becoming Miquella's consort. For Radahn to act on his own volition in favor of Miquella's case, it'd be more logical to name him "Radahn, the Consort of Miquella". Now, another part is the soundtrack of this last bossfight. It's first phase is an inverted remix of the second phase of Starscourge bossfight from the base game. However, at one point you can clearly hear between 1:55 to 2:05 a false, disharmony in the choir, as if somebody just missed a few notes. This, I believe, points towards Radahn's true personality shedding the last tear of grievance at his miserable fate that has been brought upon him by his brother. Besides, there's a good reason for this boss to have the same leitmotiff as Starscourge, it's because Starscourge's second phase is a military elegy, a composition prepared to say goodbye, to honor somebody's death. But Radahn's not dead in the DLC yet he wished to be deceased. Freya says otherwise but she doesn't quote Radahn, she merely speaks in his stead as if she knew better.
So in short guys - I know the boss is hard as hell but it's time to man up, pick up that Tragoth's hammer and put the poor man Radahn into eternal sleep that he wished.
Agreed, one hundred percent. The fact that Miquella can force people to love him seems to me to heavily imply that our boy Radahn is being brainwashed.
to me it's made pretty clear Radhan does not want to be Miquella consort.
In addition to what you've said,
-> there's the incantation Light of Miquella :
"The strength of Miquella upon his deific return, wielded as an incantation. Annihilates foes with a pillar of light. Miquella sought to accept all that was and would be, but found one that refused to be embraced. No wonder, as one god, and one king consort, is all the world needs." => He found one that refused to be embraced, well it is Radhan I think, especially because you get this incantation by defeating him. It could be ourselves also, willing to be Elden Lord, but sounds weird to talk about the player directly in a spell/item.
-> the way Miquella go on Radhan shoulders, as the lion on Godfrey shoulders. For FS it implies that the being on the shoulder will influences the holder abilities. Also it definetly looks like the devil whispering to its victim, full of fake promises. And it does not look like Lorian and Lothric since one of them was disabled, the reason here was clearly not to manipulate.
@@nikolai347I'm with ya except, we are the one who refused to be embraced. There is only room for 1 lord, me, and 1 God, most likely ranni going by player data lol.
also it would give more sense to why radahn does not speak
And we were calling him Moghlester this whole time
When the uno reverse hits and you realized he was probably the one drugged (charmed) and exploited the entire time
He was, in fact, Miquellested
💀 bro
@@ThatOnePositiveGuyNo
He was Moghlested
I think most of us had already guessed that Marika, Miquella and Ranni were all playing game of thrones with pawns of their own 2 years ago. But it is nice to see the confirmation through this DLC.
And Ranni is the one that ends up winning most times because we’re all a bunch of simps😂
@EeveetoUmbreon25 True, but at least Ranni is up front about it if you decide to work with her. "Yep, I orchestrated the night of black knives. Yes, I'm using you for my own purposes. You sure you want to work with me? Okay then."
And after all the denial from the community, Ranni choice is the correct decision to make. Wow.
Can't get Martin to write NEW things but he sure can steal liberally from himself.
I think the whole idea of the Three Fingers is that, since the Two Fingers are representatives of Order, the Frenzied Flame takes the form of the Three Fingers to mock the Two Fingers and their order.
The question is if there is also a one finger? What would it represent? creation? Chaos? Or something else? I dont think if 2 and 3 have such a meaning that 1 wouldnt.
@@Zopeee how many fingers do you have on your hand? Think the two and three fingers split from the same source.
@@ExtremeBemoit’s hard to say because I’m not sure how Metyr fits into all of it. Before Metyr it seemed like we had somewhat of a clean explanation. Two and three fingers make one hand, when the one great split for whatever reason, we got the two and three fingers. One group as the servants of order the other chaos.
But with Metyr we don’t have a clean explanation anymore. If anything, finger lore while more expansive, at least at the moment is also much more confusing.
Somehow knowing less we understood more. Now that we know more we understand less. More than anything I’m waiting for this particular part of the story to be touched on by lore people.
personally i think that the fingers themselves are just vessels for whichever god is able to claim them. So metyr makes the fingers and kinda just lets them go, and a god uses them as communion, whichever one latches on first
You can't give a middle finger with only two fingers, that's my logic for it.
I never saw Radahn as this bloodthirsty warrior that was just looking for a grand fight to end things on. He was an intelligent and kind individual from what we have seen in lore notes, going to Sellia to learn gravity magic for the purpose of being able to continue to ride his horse along with owning multiple animals like a small cat. We also learn he took on the mantle of the Lion to symbolize Godfrey and Serosh after being captivated by them. Notice how he is captivated by Godfrey NOT Hoarah Loux, a calculated and strongwilled leader as opposed to the barbaric origins hes known for. It was only after being beaten in Caelid did Radahn become a bloodthirsty monster.
Yknow I just noticed the parallel you kill Radahn taking him from a blood crazed barbarian and turning him into miquellas lord
A lord who just so happens to invoke much of Godfrey’s image just as much as miquella invokes Marika’s image
Radahn unintentionally gets to be everything his idol ever was but in the process loses his formerly kind and compassionate self
The runes corrupted the demigods
He loved battle and was kind to the people he cared about, not mutually exclusive
@@patrickripleyiii134Exactly. It's like saying Hitler loved dogs, he was nice to some people so he was Kind as well. Like what. Radhan still loved and waged war.
Discovering the Stone-Coffin Fissure on my own was pretty much an Ash Lake moment. And the very simple lore revelation, and why it is there, just made the whole thing for me. Brilliant.
What was the revelation?(I've already been there and beaten the DLC as well, I don't mind spoilers)
@zacharyperlee4179 it's where Miquella shed the aspect of himself that could love, which was St.Trina. And what can an Age of Compassion be without the ability to love?? And he buried it in the most forgotten part of the world because he wouldn't want anyone to know he shed this part of him, as it guarantees his rule will be no better than that of his mother.
@@jjstraka1982 huh, I figured out that he buried st Trina, but didn't realize the implications regarding how that invalidates Miquella's idea of a age of compassion
my ash lake moment was shaman village.
I spend the first day free roaming across the map like it was a horse simulator and I ended up at St Trina entrance still locked, I knew the message when entering Black Keep was about that and I rushed there, it broke my heart. The art direction of Trina is amazing but I wish we had more of this aspect in the dlc
Okay I have a theory that Godwyn was initially supposed to be Miquella's Consort. After Godwyn's death, there is proof Miquella instead of trying to revive him as is, instead laments saying in the Golden Epitaph description "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." We give Radahn a true death through the festival and he was revived because of it. Was the death of Godwyn's soul alone a factor to stop his resurrection? If he was supposed to be his consort it would completely make sense not only emotionally but logically why he would both lament his half-dead festering monstrosity of a brother and hope for a true death for him. He clearly had respect for him and probably saw similar qualities in Radahn. In the remembrance it mentions Radahn's kindness, and strength that they each had, Godwyn had shown for Fortisaxx, and Radahn his scrawny horse Leonard. So many parallels that I think it's very likely.
i like the theory that godwyn was probably ranni's promised consort but she rejected everything and plotted against them.
Godwyn had a wife and children.
I also think Miquella and Godwyn had more of a relationship than what is actively shown. I know this is a stretch but it has stuck with me since I saw it on reddit.
The statue that shows Miquella and his sister being held by a third person, most likely an alive Godwyn. (male figure with long hair and a similar crown to the one Miquella wears) Well, that statue has the Blight (a plant spawned from Godwyn) growing on only one spot on the whole statue... It looks like the game artist deliberately placed it there and once you see it, you cannot unsee it. The plant is sprouting out of Miquella's ass. Like the redditor said, Idk if it is a joke or supposed to mean something more.
Godwyn was probably going to take Mohg's place as a vessel. I feel like he was destined to die from the very beginning and become the true prince of death, but Ranni's meddling ruined that and got him stuck with a dead soul and living body.
@@mojus2890 A consort can also mean a companion in cases outside of romance. That's straight up what's happening with Radahn here, so I wouldn't necessarily say it had to be in the form of a wife or child.
After playing the dlc my first thought was “that was great. wish I understood what was going on”. Hopefully this will help. Thank you.
Same. I literally had no idea what was going on. Lol
haven't you guys done any quests? Ansbach quests explains basically everything.
@@Ultradocker tbh I was kinda just joking a bit about Fromsoft stories being hard to understand but I do actually understand the main story of the dlc. There are some other things I don’t understand though that I’m hoping to get some answers for at some point.
every first playthrough of a fromsoft game besides sekiro and armored core
@@scrublord7922 nah, I understood elden ring and bloodborne. You guys just need to think outside of the box more, and read item descriptions for hints.
SmoughTown has been championing the idea that the Greater Will was way more than just another Outer God for a while now, among other things due to how the original Japanese consistently uses different terminologies when referring to the Greater Will (using language that is reminiscent of the Biblical God) and Outer Gods (who seem to be more similar to the Kami of Shinto tradition). Looks like the DLC provided more evidence in favour of his position
Great theory, are kami in Shinto supposed to be lesser deities?
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez More like…there’s Kami of every stature. From the big heavenly Kami who act as the gods of a traditional pantheon, to Kami representing literally every force of nature. The mighty goddess of the sun can be a Kami, but so can be the spirit of a random ass old tree. Or literally poop. Everything in nature has a soul. There’s Kami for everything. I guess while we roughly translate Kami as gods, maybe a closer term is spirits. There’s lesser nature spirits for everything that exists, and greater spirits that are more traditional gods. Yes, something like the god of rot could probably totally work as an impure Kami.
The fact he and Another guy’s theory about Miquella being evil were right is pretty suprising
@@ahmadabusamra9785 I tend to agree a lot with SmoughTown's theories, especially given that he often goes out of his way to learn how English localisation may make some subtle but substantial changes from the original Japanese. And his compilation videos are really good
@@brodericksiz625 He and TA are my favorite elden ring lore content creators honestly
Mohg finally beat the allegations. Bros been in court for this crap for 2 and a half years
He was another victim of miquellester the whole time
We all owe mogh an appology!!!
Just like doc pedo
Bro just wanted to lead his group of Blood followers in peace and carnage. You know, the normal for the Lands in Between.
But instead, he was sadly charmed by Miquella. What a terrible fate.
It seems to me that Miquella will end up repeating Marika's actions, the fact he chose Radahn. His Age of Compassion is enforce by Radahn thru endless war. Submit to Miquella or die by the hands of Radahn.
I'm curious why he needed radahn, when he already had Malenia. Who'd do anything for him anyways.
Did Malenia march on radahn for miquella or to prove something to miquella.
@@abhitejvelore Well, Miquella seem to already made a vow along time ago, he is hell bent on keeing his vow. Radahn clearly left an impression of young Miquella.
@@abhitejvelore no the reason is Malenia was an empyrean. And I think an Empyrean can't become another Empyrean's consort. That's why he chose radahn.
Like Ranni chooses us.
@@chonkhampter this makes sense when I think about it. Otherwise I can't imagine any other reason miquella needs anyone else. Malenia is right there to do as he orders.
@@chonkhampter bro you making to much sense. pls stop being so logical and intelligent
What I like about the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC is that it pulls no punches in showing off the horrors of war and mass slaughter similar to some scenes from George R.R. Martin’s “A Song of Ice and Fire” books.
@@VictorIV0310 the irony of the games and the books is that despite the heavy themes and the grim realities they display, you feel sucked into these worlds and fantasize about being apart of them, and kind of are when you play the games.
When I read or watch anything ASOIAF, it’s fun to fantasize about being a knight or a sellsword, then you turn the page and it’s “oh this guy got pinned under his horse, broke his leg, was captured, and then died from infection”. Good times.
@@khafaniking1230or Daenarys squatting in tall grass suffering from diarrhea. Good times were indeed had
which ones?
@@ThePenitentSquirrel All of them, it’s a book/ tv series. It’s called a game of thrones
@@Hellohello-mn2bj No, its a book series called A song of Ice and fire, the tv show was GOT. Right now, Jon Snow is still bleeding out in the snow and the only real slaughter described in detail in present tense was the Red Wedding, the only real battles (and aftermath) seen from the perspective of Tyrion Lannister and Jon.
A nice detail with Bayle is that Placidusaxs two missing head are biting down on his neck. One is right behind his right horn and the other a bit further to the left.
Damn Ging, literally just finished everything in the DLC and the final boss like 5 minutes ago and was wondering when you would upload. Absolute perfect timing, this is why you’re my favorite!
Bro I am experiencing the same exact thing, finished it about 5 minutes ago and my heart rate is still returning to normal
Bro I finished the final boss 2 hours ago
It took so gosh darn long
It was perfect timing
How long did the dlc take you to complete in hours?
I like how your story explanations are a bit more simple than vaatis. He goes a bit too much in depth, whereas your explanations are a bit more simple. I appreciate it
It’s kinda wild that the Minor Erdtree spell and the golden braid are (probably?) the only look into Marika’s mindset that we’re ever going to get, since (as far as I know) every single time she’s referenced, it always states her actions and leaves out her motivations and feelings concerning said actions. And even then, what we got is still very vague since the braid doesn’t specify what Marika’s
wish/confession was.
I speculate that Marika's wish was a simple act of vengeance against those who have contributed to the destruction of her village, that being the Hornsent. Upon making the wish, the Divine Gates ascended her to Godhood, which then gave her enough power to send Messmer and his men to commit genocide on the Hornsent.
Knowing that this genocidal act is effectively blasphemy against the normal laws of the Golden Order, she abandoned Messmer and in turn the Shadow Lands in order to sweep it all under the rug and maintain proper Order under her rule.
I do also speculate that the revelation that contributed to Marika Shattering the Elden Ring was also her realizing who Metyr was, as it would effectively mean her entire life and rule was built under a complete lie. This would naturally cause her to lose it entirely and attempt to rebel against the Golden Order by Shattering the Elden Ring, which would provoke punishment from the Elden Beast.
@@MrZalgo-ml2iw why did the greater Will leave metyr without any instructions tho? It just sends metyr and the elden beast to the lands between and just leaves without warning?
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez We had already been told the Greater Will had abandoned the Lands Between. Fans just didn’t believe it lol. It likely saw how chaotic and violent mortals were and decided "screw you guys, I’m going home" since it’s an embodiment of Order. The Finger Morher went insane without any instructions and decided to try to impose order how it could and influenced Marika into creating the Golden Order. Marika, who likely wanted power to avenge her people, rolled with it. That’s my read.
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez so it could focus on another universe I guess. They saw how their brief influence caused so much conflict and war and decided to peace out
@@MrZalgo-ml2iwGreater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering as stated in the intro cutscene and is not responding as we saw in the base game when the fingers try to commune with GW. Metyr also was probably abandoned after or during the shattering not since the beginning.
Marika also communed with the greater will and it sent the elden beast to become the erdtree during her time as we saw in the story trailer. Elden stars item description says once the greater will sent a golden star to the lands between and after dlc we know now that metyr was the first and the elden beast later.
Marika broke the elden ring because of Godwyn's death as the intro states it sent her to the brink which probably reminded her of the hornsent massacre of her village. Godwyn's death is the catalyst for the shattering and the shattering and the inability of the demigods to restore order is probably why the greater will left.
Nanaya is likely a finger maiden like Hyetta, as she got her eyes covered, gaslighted Midra to "endure", and crafted a previous failed lord into that torch. Her corpse is also uninjured, hinting that she just "left" it and probably possessed someone else, like Hyetta possessed Irina
Where do we find ANY in-game lore about Midra or Nanaya? I loved the area where his mansion is located at and was very excited about Midra in the trailer, but when I finally reached to him, I got so disappointed. Killed him first try, saw no lore about him whatsoever, and still don't know what was the motivation of my character to kill him.
@@thulsa_doomI think it has something to do with the description of Nanaya's torch found on what is assumedly her corpse, the items and Remembrances involving Midra, and the fact that everything within the manor and its boundaries are afflicted with the madness.
If you notice Bayle's neck still has one of Placidusax's heads attached to it
Doesnt his back have the other two ?
There's 2 heads of Placidusax stuck to Bayle's body actually.
Yeah he’s wearing them as trophies, which is savage but cool
I was too busy trying not to die to notice 😂
@@IdleWandering personally think Placi's heads are just on death grip and he can't take them off cus....well, look at his wings.
*sees thumbnail*
Messmer looking good in his gaming throne chair. What a chad.
I think miquella 's noble virtue and his fatal flaw, like in ratatosker's vid on the other demigods, is that miquella is either too loving or too empathetic, and in doing so he felt he had to atone for marika's sins by tossing away everything. Completely tearing down the old order. But even this will fail as he does toss away his love, and without that how can you have true compassion. (Not that the plan was great before.) And now the coming age of compassion he promises will probably be fucked up in some way. Once again age of duskborn, age of stars and age of perfect order stay winning.
Was just thinking about this, totally agree!
If someone wants to bother can they explain the duskborn ending briefly? I didn't know about this one and like doing cool endings
@@blobymcblobface duskborn brings those who live in death into the order, and brings godwyn back to life, though as part of the elden ring as a new rune. It's the ending you get doing fias questline
Take their torment, despair.
Their affliction.
Every sin, every curse.
And melt it all away.
@@TheMoon-ev3sx "However ruined this world has become, however mired in torment and despair, life endures. Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not? If you would become Lord, do not deny this notion. Please, leave the Frenzied Flame alone." And it's true! There's still hope, there's still beauty in the lands between, I think there's chances for it to go forward, under better orders rather then burning it all away.
Feel bad for Messmer, the only child of Marika who wasnt given a chance in life. Marika sent him away and abandoned him to fight in an eternal war, knowing she will never see him again, all because he was allficted by an outer god (the Abyssal Serpent). All while her other kids thats been afflicted by other outer god have the chnace to become gods themselves. She really threw him in the dark dirty basement, locked it with chains and threw away the key.
I dunno about that. She hardly gave Morgott and Mohg a chance either lol
@@abdieljove2011 marika is pobably half omen too,she probably sealed all the omens in the lands between to forget her past,to forget the atrocities that the hornsents did to her people and the atrocities she did to them
This DLC confirmed what I’ve been saying fit ages. This fanbase has obsessed with the greater Will for ages thinking it’s an Outer God and the true main villain of the story when it’s literally just a plot point for world building and barely involved in the actual plot. Its role is in the creation story. It splitting the One Great. Reference to Odin creating the universe from Ymir since ER loves Norse mythology. It also sent the Elden ring down and granted creatures sentience. And seems to be an embodiment of order and its counterpart is Frenzied Flame. That’s…it. It bailed on the Lands Between ages ago. It pretty much went "you guys can’t stop fighting. Cringe." and pissed off. The fingers are just abandoned creations. Now we know they were obeying the Mother of Fingers, who hasn’t heard from the Greater Will in ages and has gone insane. And driving Marina’s insanity as a result. Marika probably wanted revenge for her people, and to create a peaceful age of plenty, made a pact with finger mommy and everything went downhill from there lol
that explains the 3 fingers. Greater Will seperated the whole which contained both good and evil and created Two Fingers which represent order (if you look at pictures of Jesus you can see the two fingers) but inadvertently also created 3 fingers which embody evil. This seperation can be seen in multiple creation myths from all around the world. Hence why the 3 fingers want to burn everything, to return to singularity of being you can look into what Wahdat Al Wujut is if you are curious about the subject which is also heavily inspired by Zoroastrianism since it was the areas previous religion and Zoroastrianism is heavily flame oriented belief. They still have literal undying flames in Ateshgah of Baku which also means Place of Fire. I'm happy the dlc explained that Greater Will wasn't a space yatzhee as many people seemed fixated upon and from discussions i remember people being very in favor of Omens like "hurr durr how could Golden Order do this" well apparently horned people were the og bad guys, who woulda thunk. i mean these facts were given enough proof in vanilla version but people refused to see em
@@NashQlaimthe "bad omens" were hornsent. The newly born omens were no different than humans of the golden order or outside it, and they were not given much chance to live. Marika became as much an oppressor as the Hornsent
@@NashQlaim -The Greater Will came in existence AFTER the fracture of the One Great. How could the GW fractured the OG if everything in existence came from the OG?
If the GW embodies Order, it is only natural that this other entity became Chaos.
-Stars are at the heart of Elden Ring, it would make more sense that a Big-Bang-like event would have fractured the One Great, giving birth to everything
-there is no notion of good and evil, but Chaos and Order. If the 2 Fingers really stood for Jesus, there would be no 3 Fingers but an upside-down 2 Fingers (Baphomet aka the Devil also has this imagery of the 2 fingers, 2 pointing upward, 2 pointing downward. "As above, so below" )
-The "one being" thingy came from Platon. Zarathustra only introduce the idea of 1 god instead of several. And we meet several gods in Elden Ring.
-Marika sending the Tarnished outside of the Land Between looks a lot like his "allegory of the cave", where the Tarnished would struggle and die out of the cave (where they can learn by themselves what is Good (with a capital G) and what is not), then are brought back and take the mantle of Elden Lord to lead the Lands Between in a new age, with a knowledge only them could have.
-I think it's also Platon who talks about man and woman being each one half of 1 being, reason why Marika and Radagon are 1 being, Miquella and Trina also.
People don't refuse things. They just have their own interpretation. But mostly don't think by themselves and just repeat what they heard somewhere else.
Thus, they don't even understand why they think what they think, no wonder they get mad when they can't defend what they say, that's called cognitive dissonance.
That's how you get non-sense things like " Jesus = the 2 Fingers ". If you want christianity in Elden Ring, just look at how Marika is depicted in her statues AND inside the Erdtree : shaped like a... cross
Honestly, I kinda get the idea that the Greater Will isn’t immortal.
I think the story of this creature is supposed to mimic the suggestion of, “What if God was real and DID create the universe we know, but was not immortal, all-knowing, or unique?”
The idea that any one of us could create an entire universe inside of a Petri dish where millions of generations of things will live and die before we pass on ourselves.
It would make more sense why the Greater Will just fucked off. Made the whole place but it’s so old that it’s just dead and nobody can communicate with it anymore but keep pretending like they’re following the will of this god.
The greater will = mandate from heaven = divine right of kings, etc. pretty much it just a narrative of new power justifying their rule over or replacing the old power
Awesome video! I was noting down characters and their lore whilst playing, and got super lost when I entered Shadowkeep, now I know I completely missed the "somewhere a great rune has broken" sign and the whole dialogue you can have with Miquellas squad that lets you know they were charmed..
Mogh did nothing wrong!!!
Also... Thanks for the vid! Keep it up big man!
Fr i wasnt expecting such a twist
@@julianodobler2782😅
@@julianodobler2782 Me neither. This dlc answered a lot of my old questions but it also gave me a fvck ton of new ones.
But for now it's safe to say that we owe the horn-y boy an apology.
No one could've seen him beating those charges
The Moghlester was a victime and got Miquellested 😭 I regret everything I said about Mogh years ago 😭
I keep going back to this video. Such a nice work, everything is pretty neatly presented.
I can't wait for more content!
Waited so long for it. I love the DLC and you make me understand it even better thx.
I think there is a reason why the three fingers aren’t mentioned in Metyr’s description and it’s because the greater will created everything by shattering the one great and the frenzied flame saw that as a mistake and sought to destroy everything the greater will created by melting it all away, and the greater will are shown to punish anyone who goes against them or seeks to destroy their order like with the nox for example, so it would make sense why Metyr wouldn’t create the envoys of the frenzied flame which are basically the antithesis of the greater will.
It also would in turn mean that the Frenzied Flame would create the Three Fingers in an act of Mocking the Greater Will's Order to begin with.
Of course you were the first explaining the DLC story, you never dissapoint, Gingy.
When your searching for Midra’s and you stumble across those weird things you have to parry in order to kill, if you read the description of the item it drops it says something about the Swollen Grape being “Marked with fingerprint burns, proof of having being touched directly by the Three Finger’s embrace” so those weird things have some sort of connection with the three fingers.
I'm pretty sure it's confirmed now that Melina is a daughter of Marika, or at least the sister of Messmer, because there's an item description that mentions Messmer had a vision of burning "like his younger sister". apologies, I don't remember which item, but it's just after you defeat him that you get it
I know exactly what item description your talking about it’s Messmer’s Kindling(I think)
Also now that we have the new black butterfly it kinda confirms the smoldering butterflies are Melina’s (which would also then make her a child of Marika)
Bro he says this in the video
It's on Messmer's Kindling.
@@thulsa_doom it's in this video you clicked on
I had assumed that Merika's village was destroyed in some random act (violence, plague, whatever) and her prayer was "for it all to make sense" which is why she was chosen as the avatar of the Golden Order, to force the world to make sense. With that finger ruins right next to the village, I thought that's where the first fingers would have fallen too.
And for that matter, the other finger ruins being nestled right in the abyssal forest with all the frenzy seemed like the three fingers would have landed there.
That could be a physical representation of the One Great split up as well?
@@iambluetooth1430I think three fingers was just a anomaly. And Frenzied Flame God used that as a vessel. Because Hyetta's words make sense with this: *Greater Will made a mistake.*
Interesting interpretation but I'm not too sure about it. The Fingers seem predate the Golden Order since it's sort of implied Metyr fell shortly after or possibly around the time of the Elden Beast. And we know the Elden Ring(which is the Elden Beast) has been around since the reign of the Ancient Dragons. All of which predate Marika. Not to mention that all the evidence surrounding the Hornsent and the Shamans really seem to push the idea that the Hornsent were fanatics who completely subjugated and massacred the Shamans.
My theory about Three Fingers is this: We know the all two fingers and fingercreepers mother is Metyr. The first fallen star to the lands between. But Elden Beast form doesn't match with Finger ruins. Its not a finger afterall. But Metyr seems like she has 3 heads. Maybe when she fell down to earth she crushed into pieces like meteors? Then she united as Metyr?
Three fingers doesn't look like special, it has just one more finger. Humans also can have this anomalies. Like born with tail, extra arms or legs etc. And in some old cultures families even abandoned these babies. These poor babies were seeing as curse from Gods. Crows for another example. Albino crows always excluded from their nests. So in this situation, three fingers excluded from the nest, isolated, rebelled and called Frenzied Flame God without knowing.
So, three fingers cursed abyssal forest and after that event Marika or Messmer himself locked Three Fingers to the depths of sewers. This can be our answer why we found Three Fingers in depths. Because we know two fingers can't be killed. Three fingers is not an expection. It has just one more finger xd
1:22 Needle Knight?! Needle as in Hornet? Miyazaki must know the release date. Silksong 2024 Confirmed. Jokes aside thanks for putting out this video so I can understand how Miquella has some Radahn clones lying around.
Most sane Silksong fan
@@ЕкатеринаСеренковаM8 TODAY THERE WAS A SILKSONG PIN RELEASED! THAT MEANS SILKSONG WILL COME OUT TOMORROW! (please help me).
@@ЕкатеринаСеренкова It has been a long and silent wait. I Heard Leda call herself "needle knight" while I was playing and it hit me like a sleeper cell activation phrase.
lmao silksong
Silksong in Elden Ring????
How did I miss that????
Marika having two omen children after seemingly genociding the hornsent is perfect irony
I can’t help but wish that Godwyns souls had been used since it was the one thing that died and Miquella has a whole story about trying to bring him back with the eclipse. The bodies of two brothers and soul of a third would have fit really well rather than then 2/3rds Radahn
Exactly, why wasn’t Godwyn’s body used as the vessel instead of mohg with Radahns soul? Why weren’t we given a Godwyn fight after alll the lore & setup prior? It’s disappointing tbh.
@SilentiumCivis They left elden ring 2 as a possibility ig. Mohg soul still exists, godwyns body still exists.
@@SilentiumCivis The whole Radhan thing just comes out of left field and makes the whole battle of Caelid between him and Malenia seem like a stupid spat, tbh. It kinda ruined a lot of the game's lore for me.
@@penrilfakeRadahn refused Miquella's request, so Miquella sent Malenia to kill Radahn to use his soul, but Radahn fought back and held the stars at bay so his fate with Miquella would not happen.
@@reign1594 I'm pretty sure they said they have no intention of making an elden ring 2
Was hoping for Elden Ring content from you, and you delivered as always. Can't wait for the next one!
My interpretation is that Rahdan refused to horner the vow, so Miquella sent Melania to kill rahdan so he could take his soul and charm him into becoming his consort.
that was pretty much what happened XD
This explains Godricks grafting ability for me, as he was a partial descendant of the shamans. And while he knew the poem of his grandmothers wish, "One day we will return together, to our home, bathed in rays of gold ", he didnt know its meaning.
Lore spoilers!
I’ve been speculating that Messmer’s role in the Land of Shadow was an overseer installed by Marika to keep its denizens in check both as a form of exile for his blasphemy and a duty that she foisted on him until he will be allowed back into her arms. Turns out I was half right; While I don’t know his exact feelings on the matter when he waged war against the land, he was indeed tasked with lording over the land as a dreaded “devil” figure for its denizens to focus their hatred on. Messmer also hated his fire powers and had a serpent within him that he tried to get rid of but to no avail. Marika plucked out one of his eyes and placed a seal of grace to keep the snake within before having him kept away in the Land of Shadow, presumbably erasing him from history. He also sounds quite weary in his boss introduction where he seems reluctant to fight us but accepts it as his duty nonethless and second phase cutscene where he looks at the Marika statue before ripping his eye out. For him to curse Marika in his dying breath, he must’ve carried such lifelong resentment towards her. Poor guy.
Also, if I’m not mistaken “Base” could mean an old, archaic term for vile, lowly, contemptuous or even bastard, hence the other term “baseborn” which could also refer to a bastard born out of wedlock?
I believe that Messmer & Melina are the bastards of Midra and Marika. They may have had a relationship during the time she sent Godfrey to deal with the fire giants. This would explain why Messmer & Melina both have Kindling and the ability to use fire. She then seals the snake curse within him and uses him as a warden to keep the denizens of the Land of Shadow at bay. (She may have also tried to get rid of Melina, I am not sure. It is stated by Melina that she doesn't have a physical form.)
This would also explain the line within the trailer that talks about "an affair".
I don't think I'll ever get to prove this interpretation beyond just vibes, but I think Messmer did have a mix of love/hate towards Marika, and probably wanted to make her proud. Hence it's maybe likely he did the crusade or let all the blame for it fall on his shoulders because he believed it would please his mother. If he was old enough to accept it, he probably also accepted the seal of grace from her "willingly" (in quotes because under this interpretation it would've been from pressure to appease his mother again even if it hurt him).
I guess the main driving force behind why I see it this way is his dialogue when the Tarnished meets and fights him. He says he won't suffer a lord bereft of the grace of gold, and I think that's because all his life, despite the serpent and the fire within him, he'd been fighting to defend that ideal of the grace of gold. of his mother, even at the expense of undoing the seal she put on him.
But the Tarnished fighting to become Elden Lord basically with Marika's blessing is a spit in his face. What was he fighting for, bleeding for, debasing himself for if his mother can just change her mind that the grace of gold is actually no big deal and this lowly Tarnished is viable in her eyes to become Elden Lord? I'd curse her too if I was him.
@@andrewfornes5320Marika and Midra conceiving Melina and Messmer is most likely the correct answer, thought of it as well when I saw that painting in midras manse.
@@Ale-ey3xv The lady in the painting is Nanaya, you find her body in the Manse wearing the same dress and hood.
@@buckyhurdle4776 damn I missed that, thanks for the heads up. Know anything about why midra went mad and what crime he did/was accused of?
I wonder if markia actually planed to bring mesmer and crew back someday, but "things went tits up" as our good friend boggart would say.
Maybe the knight of black knives and then shattering happened. Markia still planed to follow her original plan, but shes been imprisoned in the erdtree.
Gotta love fromsoft, for ever 100 answers, we get 1000 new questions... ... and i wouldnt have it any other way, lol.
OMG finally somebody puts a video explaining the DLC on TH-cam!!! I can't believe it took nearly a week.
Due to the size of the game, this was so much needed! Looking forward to your complied story analysis!
So basically, the entire plot of elden ring and the golden order spurred because finger mom had bad cell reception?
basically
This is a great appetizer video before vaati makes 10 2 hour long+ videos explaining the finer details of every blade of grass in the dlc, lol. Not being rude, or putting you down, but this is a great kind of tldr for the vaati videos that are most definitely to come. great video and dang were people super wrong bout mohg.
"Dying honorably doesn't suit him" from Freyja doesn't really work as an explanation for Radahn agreeing to being the consort. She just said because she assume that Radahn would prefer to be battling forever over dying honorably, but she is assuming that Radahn would be ok with being revived and getting a second chance, essentially cheating death. Throughout history, this concept is not something that honorable fighters would favor, because it would mean that they are getting an unfair advantage over their opponent. In this case was getting a "Come back from death for free" card while Malenia didn't.
For this reason I definitely interpret that Radahn was completely fine with meeting an honorable death since he pushed Malenia to her absolute limit with his own skills and strength, making her forsake her own honor by nuking everything in order to satisfy Miquella's wish, which was to kill Radahn at all cost to make his soul available for his plan to achieve godhood.
Great video and also, it's so good to see someone pronounce "scadu" the correct way! I've seen this prefix while studying Tolkien's writing and I finally understood why the portuguese translation of Shadowfax is Scadufax. Basically it comes from Sceadu-fæx from old english.
What a relief, Mohg wasn't a creep, just a murderer and cult leader.
Dang this video blew up, I watched it yesterday and it had like a few thousand views and now it has almost half a million, great job dude!
I have a question, how exactly did miquella ascend to godhood? Marika did it by joining with the elden ring or something like that, but miquella very clearly didn't use anything related to the ring, he even threw away his great rune. Did his sacrifice of everything he was, alongside his semi-divinity, allow him to ascend and become fully divine?
The miquella he get to know is gone, he died slowly and methodically as he left everything he was behind in is path to godhood, and he does succeed, he fight him as a full fledged, new born god. To be honest, i am curious about the gate of destiny of divinity or whatever it's called, that miquella used to ascend, what is it's origin and how does it work?
Defeating the final boss gives a drop of a crown of sorts that Miquella was wearing. Reading the description implies that it would have been the equivalent of his Elden Ring
Watched it late bc I wasn’t too far in the dlc. You did a great job dude. Keep going doing what you do but stay healthy.
The video I have been waiting for right next to Vaati's.
I frickin knew it, I KNEW Mohg was being used by Miquella!!! It was the first impression I got from them when learning about how Miquella is “compelling” and super influential. It made too much sense.
Bingo! I called it from the start, too.
I have a feeling that Midra is the father of Messmer and Melina. The reason why I think this is the fact that the trailer mentions "an affair" and the fact that Messmer was around before Radagon was with Renalla. I believe when Godfrey was away killing the fire giants, Marika and Midra had Messmer & Melina. I think she then tried to hide both of them (after sealing away the snake curse within Messmer) and used Messmer & an army given to him by his parents to go and fight in the land of shadows. By this time, Marika would've known Renalla so she would probably be able to persuade Rellana to fight for him, either as Marika or Radagon.
We also know that Messmer & Melina both have kindling within them and the ability to burn the Erdtree. Those traits probably come from Midra.
Interesting take. Maybe this would also explain how Melina can know so much about the Flame of Frenzy to begin with...
but isn't midras wife Nanaya? and he has a son/daughter that doesnt appear right? maybe nanaya is marikas pseudonym
Hear me out, what if radagon/marika was the father and the gloam eyed queen was the mother, this would also explain why melina has the one gloam eye on the left and why messmer is missing his left eye
@@odyonobono nanaya is dead in a chair but that doesn't mean midra isn't the father. Both of them could of been having an affair.
haven’t seen anyone mention it yet but the shaman village is actually something that gets lost in translation. in japanese it’s referred to as the miko village, miko being shrine maidens.
Dunkey, Gingy, and Albino dropping in the same day? Christmas came early
Gingy is 1 of my favorite and in my opinion 1 of the best game lore content creators. Keep the awesome videos comin bro
I wish the DLC could have given you some kind of mending rune for a new ending. I think it could have been cool
The part near the end about the finger mother really hit me there, I love that they would throw such a powerful curveball at us by showing that the finger maidens and the crones were basically being misled and were following a false idol
i just wow. miyazaki made another masterpiece. in all fromsoft games i love the lore more than the gameplay and this video answered like 90% of my questions about the story of the whole game in general
your standards are very very low
@@Arcessitor just like your IQ.
@@Arcessitoryours word are as empty as your brain.
@@Arcessitor he’s not here to fulfill your expectations so your comment is irrelevant just like your opinion.
@@Midra_lord_of_frenzied_flame Nah he right, the other fromsoft games deliver their lore in a much more satisfying way, you know most of the things you want to know whereas with elden ring we don't get half the answers we want, not to mention ER clearly has the worst boss design philosophy yet, bosses spam and delay attacks to no end
My theory is the realm of shadow is inside the erdtree, and Marika was holding it closed until the elden ring was shattered which then broke the gate between the two, sort of like the underworld. It would explain why Bayle is there as he was killed by Placidusax, we know Radahn is dead because we kill him, and miquella was dead in the cocoon, perhaps Metyr hasn’t heard the outer will because it also died and is stuck in limbo. It’d explain all the ghosts/graves and why it’s unseen on the map. The warrior jars indicate some messed up rebirth ritual, so it’s possible Messmer is there to prevent any omens or other who don’t follow the golden order from being reborn
This is pretty cool
0:17 well that shot from the trailer was a lie
That's Midra's Manor in the Abyssal Woods
@@mashbbng I know, but from I remember you cannot summon torrent in this area because he's terrified
@@babydeathmetal5176 oh yeah, true that!
Man that video you are making must be like 5 hours long, there is a LOT of lore and I know a lot of it already but I will watch, I love lore man.
I knew what malenia whispered mattered so much even years ago. I also guessed miquella was solely trying to ascend to godhood and had bewitched mogh. It's nice being proven right
Also guessed Melina was directly Marikas daughter
Thank you for this video. When I was speed reading through Freyja's dialogue, I accidentally skipped the line about Miquella wishing to revive Radahn's soul since I pressed the skip button right when the previous line ended. I was SO confused by people saying that they had revealed the final boss half way through
The frenzy flame ending is just! I am certain we can take the frenzy flame ending given by hyetta as fact.
The mistakes happening under the greater will is taxing a penultimate diety, the one great.
A vicious Ying to the greater wills yang.
Also, the frenzy flame never seemed like destruction, but rather just a reset. Imo
Think the Same. That's why this Always was my fav ending.
"Reset"
Interesting way to explain one sided mass genocide, buddy.
Ever wondered why the status effect is called Madness?
@DronesOverTheMoon After my experience with everyone in The Lands Between. I came to the conclusion that everyone deserves to burn. Besides maybe Morgott, Godfrey, and goldmask, as they are aware of the mistakes Marika/Others made. And innocents like roderika and the blacksmith.
The DLC only reinforced this ideal
@@tacticalmattress So your telling me your experience with one specific part of the whole world is more than enough to decide to destroy existance itself?
Damn my guy
@@DronesOverTheMoon "This place and everyone live in it are fcked up, let burn this place down". Has he ever considered to save the place and fix it.
thank you for making a lore video on SOTE so soon!! ive been dying to watch one.
New details we learn and the world building is great, but bringing back Rhadahn feels kinda weak.
Second phase you’re also fighting Miquella as well though as he’s on him and attacking you
Just like a famous quote said by Petyr in GOT states "Chaos is a ladder",everything is making sense now
the plot twist where we find out that the GW has forsaken mertyr,for mertyr to forsaken the two fingers,and for the two fingers to forsaken marika was great.
This new lore just prove that there was no bad guy from the beginning,and everyone was just in chaos from the confusion that happened,marika got tired of the BS said by the two fingers and realized that the perfect order she tried to create was ultimately based on a lie,and tried her best to hide her massacre of the hornsent,she later broke the ER,hoping to be freed from the manipulation of the golden order
Really? I liked it. Makes more sense to why Malenia fought him.
Gingy, would love to see you do a deep dive for your "mega video" and just really get into the weeds of some of the details. I know that might make it like a 12hr video or something, but real talks, I leave your videos on while I work, so 12hrs is actually a mega blessing
Honestly it may be a hot take but I'm not a big fan of radahn being the final boss. There are a lot of aspects of the dlc I do like narratively but I think they should have let radahn die and let either godwyn or another deity take the center stage. At the very least you could have had Radahn be killed and then another deity appear like in the base game connected to Miquella. I've enjoyed a lot about this game but the very ending left a bad taste for me. Hopefully a potential further expansion of some sort will answer a bit more about Marika but we will see.
At first i was disappointed, but reflecting its pretty good and ties pretty well with the story/lore. That's why Malenia fought Radahn, also that's why she never tried to rescue Miquella from Mohg and was simply waiting. She was waiting Miquella return as a god from the realm of shadow.
this is not a hot take at all people generally agree that radahn is a very disappointing boss and that the ending is very lacking
Regarding Wether Radahn is/ wanted to die honourably, you have to remember that in the base game, Radahn IS dead - his brain has been destroyed by scarlet rot - The Radahn we are told about no longer exists there, but in the Shadow Realm. It's likely the Festival is to just honour his original body and finally put it to rest. Radahns real wishes won't be known
our boi was Moghlested.. seems like even the Lord of Blood aint immune to the allure of that Miquellusy
holy shit you are the first to drop the lore love that for you
33 seconds ago is crazy...
Holy moly the details are gigantic, there are so maaaany horrific and beautiful symbolics and philosophical aspects in the entire lore - a very unique level of cosmic horror and writting in video media *-*
I read the Malenia Vs Radahn fight happening due to Miquella putting his plan into swing using Mogh. Malenia likely wasn't in the loop on all the details, but knew enough to suspect his brother's future consort, Radahn. So when Miquella goes missing, she obviously had some questions for Radahn, thinking it was him who ran off with Miquella. The Shattering is raging, and the ever protective Malenia might not have been comfortable with Miquella being alone without guard with the mightiest demigod of the shattering, Radahn. Perhaps she feared Radahn would harm or intended to kill Miquella to take his Great rune? Being Miquella's main enforcer and bodyguard, Malenia wasn't about to sit around and find out either. So she gathers her knights and begins the long march to meet the general to forcefully ask him about the matter personally.
As who else could it be? Worth noting too, if Miquella was to divest himself of many things, Malenia would be high on the list. She would also likely be a constant emotional anchor that holds him back from going all in on the scheme, and thus it would be easier to rip chunks, emotions and parts of himself out if Malenia was no longer a factor. Or more, having her sacrifice herself as a pawn on the board, it would make it easier to use the grief of loss to rip chunks of himself out. Only, complications arise. Instead of just getting killed by Radahn Malenia both survived and bloomed, managing to infect Radahn with the incurable scarlet rot. Something the full ramifications of Miquella would be all too aware of with his experiments and studies in trying to cure Malenia of her affliction. Miquella knew what scarlet rot was, and just how much of a blow this was to his plans. So he had to get creative using what he had. How very fortunate for Miquella that the demigod pawn Mogh had suitable flesh to be harvested.
Perhaps he even saw there being a chance something happens to Radahn with the shattering underway, and thus it being handy to have a spare source for a new flesh suit to house his soul in around? A kind of double whammy plan where Mogh was both a required tool pawn, and a contingency plan component? A good plan after all always has contingencies in places where critical failures might occur, and makes very effective use of available resources to their fullest effect. Though, if Miquella had to divest himself of everything, Radahn would be included in this. So remaking him might also have been a part of the plan.
As we are told many times: Malenia was the blade of Miquella. And what is a blade, but a tool? Tools can be cast aside when no longer needed. And with the Shattering going on, Radahn would be very unlikely to view Malenia coming knocking with her forces in tow as anything but a challenge to battle. As Malenia slapping Godrick shows, she had no time for nonsense on her march and didn't care about greater runes. Just shutting him up and moving along was enough. Plus, I doubt Radahn could resist the chance to duel one of the mightiest warriors around/pit his forces against hers. He lived for battle, so there likely was very little parley or talking before bloodshed began.
Furthermore, I believe this all reframes the Castle Sol prayers. Miquellas prayers for his brother to die a true death were never for Godwyn. But Radahn. Because it was vital to Miquella's plans. Showing his Radahn 2.0 project had also been underway for a long time. He has been at this plan for a very long time, trying different things.
Malenia was aware of Miquella plan, she was waiting him to return as a god. That's why she never even tried to rescue him from Mohg. Also in the first trailer when Malenia speaks in Radahn ear its revealed she delivered Miquellas massage that he was awaiting him to be his consort.
Oh, and about Godwyn: Based on lore, there is a solution to dealing with him. His soul is long gone, yes? And he is just a dead body now growing out of control? What do we know that was long ago used to burn dead bodies? And, as implied by newer spell descriptions, can even burn Death? Ghostflame of course! As Godwyn is part tree, and we now have two counts of just needing the right kind of kindling fire to burn magical trees, Godwyn's body is likely no different. Ghostflame kindling of a powerful enough nature would be basically the perfect way to deal with his corpse.
The reason this wasn't done already is the Golden Order was in charge and banned such heresy. Ghostflame was an enemy of their religious order. And it's nothing new for religious orders to scoff at practical solutions to large issues if it goes against their own belief system. If they went with ghostflame before he grew all over the place, the collateral damage of setting him on fire wouldn't also be as dire as it is now with Godwyn being everywhere.
@@naka3339 Yes, she was aware of parts of it. But would Miquella tell her all of the details? That's the main crux of my post. Malenia might have had an incomplete picture as Miquella, being a planner and schemer, saw it prudent to not give her the whole package. A good manipulator tells enough to let people come to their own conclusions about their aims and goals, after all. Miquella is a planner, schemer, and manipulator above all else.
Regardless: If we go with Malenia being filled in on the whole plan, then that also raises a few odd questions. Was the whole march of her forces just a way to get to talk with Radahn during the Shattering? Were they there to just escort her so she got to him safely enough? And the only way to tell Radahn this message was to duel him?
But then, why would Malenia have allowed the scarlet rot to bloom within herself? She deliberately stopped holding back and let it happened in point-blank range of Radahn. Unless the intent was to remake Radahn and Malenia was meant to do that to kill him. Only for Radahn to tank it despite getting his mind erased. But then, telling him any messages would be pointless. Short of as a dramatic gesture before going kaboom in his face. And Miquella full well knowing how bad of a thing scarlet rot was would make it risky to expose Radahn to it.
Miquella had no way of knowing the outer god of rots scarlet rot wouldn't infect a being's soul in some way or another. So would he gamble that and potentially fumble a key component of his plan? Depends on if he was in a gambling mood, and the plan was to remake Radahn the whole time. Risking it all with unknowable factors does seem a tad risky with how masterfully Miquella constructed his plans to have as few critical potential failure points as possible.
I see the merits in the reasoning your point brings up. It does work and flow if the whole point was to remake Radahn. Malenia being a nuclear biobomb to plant in his face and having her pull the pin, with her knights a way to get Radahns attention and to clear a way to him. Only for Radahn to unbeliavable somehow live and nobody being able to put him down, meaning Miquellas plan was locked in stasis like the fate controlling stars above.
Hey, wait a minute! Perhaps the reason Radahn didn't die was the stars were held at bay? Meaning the fates they governed couldn't advance. We know the Carrians fates were especially effected. So Radahn's own fate as a Carrian would be included in this too!
I think we can all agree if anyone wanted an extra great rune, godrick would be the first to go. Just drop by storm viel and ask for it in a stern voice and it'd probably be theirs.
My favorite TH-camr with my favorite game!! Gotta love gingy
I'm kinda upset that the final boss is just Rhadan resurrected and he doesn't even give us any dialogue to go with it.
It would've been pretty sweet if we had to face Messmer, who's trying to stop the new age of compassion and then we see Miquella come down to help us because they recognize us as they're consort.
Seeing Miquella bewitching everyone was really interesting to learn but I think if they had made it to where it was because he was genuinely a good demigod and not because of some spell it would've been more interesting. To get all the way to the end just to kill Miquella feels kinda empty. In the other endings you're able to bring anout new ages and it feels like we were robbed of getting to see Miquela's age.
Though I guess you could say that's the whole point with his character following in his Mother's footsteps trying to be different only to suffer the same result 😅
Finally ive been waiting for this exact video for days now 🙌
Spoilers, I guess?
I’m glad I was spoiled on the final boss being Radahn Round 2 because that’s like really stupid. Was there a single thing linking him and Miquella in the base game? Really feels like he was only thrown in because he was well received by the fan base. Just think if Godrick had as much love as Radahn, we could’ve gotten Godrick, round 3!
Well if we knew everything that was gonna happen it wouldn't have been great would it
Imagine if Boc was popular 😯
The boss should’ve been more of a hybrid of Radhab and Mohg and called Mohgwyn
@@ASAP_Kenny skip radahn part, Mogh + Godwyn would actually be awesome, as it stands it absolutely sucks, radahn fanboys will defend it and uncritical room temp iq twats will eat it up even if Miazaki and Martin shit on their plate. Elden ring had week story and dlc made it weeker. I hope they return to traditional in the next game.
I don't think it was like that. The story of the DLC is still part of the original worldbuilding GRRM did for Elden Ring, so we can assume this was already planned from the beginning, even if there was practically nothing tying Miquella and Radahn together. So I don't think this was "due to fanboys of Radahn"
Great video! I havent even finished the DLC, I'm mainly in it for the lore lmao, so this is a really good groundwork video while I look at all the other stuff in game.
I think that Radahn wouldn't accept Miquella's vow. He even waged war against the stars to oppose Ranni. He is loyal to Radagon and the golden order
@@marumae Miquella was a prodigy in the Golden Order so it is possible Radahn would have accepted his proposal if he thought it was for the best of the golden order. Once Miquella abandoned the golden order, I could see Radahn feeling that Miquella broke his vow first. Then we get the fight with Melania vs Radahn
@@marumae radahn was not loyal to the golden order. he is called a traitor by morgott. there is no game evidence that radahn was loyal to the order.
we never learn what vow they made. It could be other thing like "free Marika". But it's pretty clear Radahn did not kneel for Miquella since he sent Malenia to kill him on order to have his soul ( also she almost died in the process and failed because Radahn is too much of a badass )
Why are people assuming that he was "loyal" to the Golden Order? He coveted the throne like all the rest and even sieged the capital, leading Morgott to call him a wilful traitor just like his siblings.
He was a Godfrey fanboy, sure, and he was proud to be Radagon's son, but as soon as the Shattering occurred, all the bets were off and Radahn was just another Demigod vying for the throne. But since he wasn't an Empyrean, the best he could hope for was acting as the Lord Consort of one. And since Malenia had no interest in seeking God hood of her own right, his best bet would've been Miquella.
@@naka3339 radahn did agree to be miquella's consort. you can tell because he's called "promised consort" in the game text and item descriptions.
I have been waiting for a lore video 🙏🙏
I don't get it.
Nobody does.
Something about metyr I thought was interesting.
In base game the spell thop’s barrier implies that sorcery and incantations might be closer related then either would like to admit.
Metyr’s staff let’s you cast both sorcery and incantations.
My theory is that the greater will and or metyr might be the main source of all magic in the lands between.
I still feel after this video, slightly disappointed with the story, because it just reeks of cut and reshuffled content into something that just works instead of being fully fleshed out to me, I just feel like it could've done with more fleshing out as the main story of the DLC feels so inconsequential and the fact the DLCs ending doesn't feel like an ending at all, especially when you look at the fact that other bosses in the DLC could have been considered the final boss without a proper ending.
I agree. It feels like the fans have created more lore about the world than the developers themselves.
@@Andrew_S1 I don’t even think it’s that for me, I like the idea of the story and what they were kinda trying with it it’s just they fell short and didn’t flesh it out as much as it needed, and it’s part of my disappointment with that that although I know there won’t be I’d hope for another DLC so that it could have a story to really finish off or clear up some of the last lore threads and flesh out some of the story more
@@XArctracerX Do you remember the 2nd DLC for DS3? The final boss? The lore? No hope.
Watch the trailer that came out 4 months ago, at about 2:50 is shows miquella doing something we never see.
Fantastic, thank you so much for explaining the story. I go back-and-forth on whether or not this game would be better if it was more direct with its storytelling but at the very least I’m glad I can learn about it here.
Zero lore build-up for Radhan to be done dirty. Making Miquella be griffith 2.0 was lame and the most predictable outcome, what a let down.
This crap prolly makes more sense with the full scrip of rr alabamartin. However that lame-O and miyahacky had every bit of a choice not to include even more alabamian PDFly garbo, yet here we are.
Thanks for ruining a great game, if you can tolerate this under the chill bro is just fiction, have no patience for cowardice nor disgusting shit the authors willingly add.
3:21 shaman is also referecned by Dev themslves in a ground message near the statue in shadowkeep which leads to abysal woods
this is the first time i got a big part of the lore while playing, the main story was really easy to understand, and the rest was just a matter of reading item descryptions
Thanks for not putting huge ass big spoilers in the title and thumbnail like some people do
This dlc is incredible! Fromsoft absolutely killed it with this one, both story wise, and gameplay wise. I’ve only beaten it once so far and it’s only been out for a week but I’m really hoping we get a second dlc in the future!
5:35 you forgot to mention they were thrown into the golems alive. Idk if that’s mentioned in the item descriptions or dialogue, but you can tell just by looking at the bodies
15:28 speaking of Witch-Hunter Jerren, he could be considered a strange fellow, wearing cobled armor before setting down with the carrions. We never see his face his hood hides his beard is a helmet. Was told he is classified as a bloody finger when vanquished in selen fight so his true allegiances in the end are questionable, is he loyal to the carria family, Rohdan, Mohg, or miquila? Is miquila also part of the carria family as he has a following of Loretta and albinorics?
When I discovered Shaman Village for the first time and the music changed to a slow, somber version of the title theme, it gave me goosebumps.
I was waiting for this ! 🤩🤘🏻
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS !!!!