KingEmperorPenguin well noticed about the DJ plot hole. I hadn't noticed it and I haven't seen another TH-cam video that has spotted it either and I've watched loads.
KingEmperorPenguin You forgot a major plot hole. If one Resistance bomber has a large enough payload to destroy a dreadnought. Why have multiple ones come out. This makes the Resistance split their forces to defend multiple big, slow and vulnerable Bombers. When one would have been easier to defend and had a large enough payload to get the job done! A complete waste of manpower and resources! Love The Video Keep Up The Good Work!!!
The only person who saw through Han Solo's plan was Boba Fett. I do agree that the resistance only won because of plot holes, luck and duex exmachina wonderful video, I hope to see more like it
It is also strange how a dreadnought only has 8 point defence turrets and no sort other sort of anti-fighter weaponry or turbo lasers (maybe it is only a giant piece siege equipment and not meant to fight space battles, but if that is the case, then why are it’s escort craft far behind the siege ship?)
That was such a stupid move considering she nearly killed BOTH of them, AND in a way where the sacrifice wouldn't have had ANY meaning for the battle or saving the rest of the Resistance, lol. Still hate that moment.
Saving his soul from dying an angry black man’s death, which is all they wrote his character to be... which is sad. I wanted to like him from the moment they had him break away from the first order, but then he became the movie’s comic relief, having to be educated by the movies more white characters. He then is given a romantic relation whose ethnicity is also a poor, more white (but not white) woman. The movies where horrific from the start to the finish. Their best use? How not to write a script, or what not to do. I don’t write comic relief characters. They cheapen the plot by injecting bad comedy.
@@RobertGraphics you can have funny characters but they need serious moments where they can be of use as well. If you only write them to be comic relief your doing it the wrong way around. Only introduce/write a character if he has an impact or significance for 1. The plot 2. On important characters or 3. The world/worldbuilding. If the character brings nothing interesting or important to the table scrap him. Best example that comes to mind is Sokka from avatar the last airbender. He starts of mostly as a funny character but even in episode 2 he is willing to risk his life to defend his village. He is the person that always has a plan and in most cases they work. He later even becomes a fighter that is capable of fighting with/aside people that can control the elements. He is important, smart and still has the best jokes, one liners etc.
Literally the first thing they’ll teach you about retreating in Star Wars is that you ALWAYS make a second jump so the enemy can’t figure out where you went based on hyperspace vectors
Hux: "Are you threatening me Ace Pilot?" Poe: "The generals will decide your fate." Hux: "I am the general!" Poe: "Not yet." Hux: "It's treason, then."
Imagine if before the Normandy landings, the British, Americans and Canadians rammed their ships and landing craft into eachother to "protect those you love, not destroy those you hate"
Ohhhhh you’re racist and sexist because you said something negative about a made up character that happens to be portrayed by an Asian American actress! But the line was written by a white dude!!!!!Shame...shame...shame
Matthew Ang Yes, I was being sarcastic. I was attempting to show how the media takes a logical, albeit negative comment someone makes about a character and then turns it into a personal attack on the actual person who is playing that character, even though the commenter didn’t mean to that way. More specifically, how the media twisted any negative comment made on Rose’s character into personal hate against Kelly Marie Tran
@@David-jk7ot Yeah, alright. Wasn't sure as well, kinda hard to distinguish sarcastic and not, besides, people nowadays are quite stupid, the majority mostly. Too much misunderstandings and shit...
Luke was the real tragedy of this movie. He will forever be a young man who believed in the light, only to grow up into a cynical old man who contemplates killing babies.
Ackbar was the best wingman in night clubs when you were drunk. You could walk up to him and be like "Im digging that girl over there." And he would warn you if it was actually a man or not... "ITS A TRAP!"
Maybe they shouldn't put the bridge of the ship in one of the most exposed positions possible? I guess it's not as bad as Star Destroyers which literally juts the bridge up as the only target. Also, Mace Windu is clearly alive if Jedi can fly. Maybe Plo Koon too if they can survive those types of explosions but I think it's more difficult to argue for him.
Now just saying, but imagine if Holdo's role in every scene was in fact Ackbar including the hyperspace thing. Instead he died off-screen wtf is this shit?
DJ tells the first order to scan for cloaked ships. 1:Why dont they always scan for cloaked ships 2:what is the purpose of cloaks if you can just scan for them
Janx14 And I love how Poe is treated like a hothead who screws everything up when Holdo's plan is retarded beyond belief and only works because the First Order are totally inept.
The correctness of Poe's actions doesn't enter into it. He is a soldier and is expected to follow orders. He disobeyed them, resulting in the deaths of many (his ambition basically amounted to murder). He's lucky he wasn't court-martialed.
Sam Frilia So if your commander orders you to do somthing extremely stupid or morally wrong like say, killing/torturing civilians. Your supposed to just go through with it anyway? What if he orders you to commit a to a suicide attack? What if he orders you to kill other soldiers without cause? Blindly following orders regardless of logic or common sense is not what soldiers do.
Sundiata Keita It's absolutely baffling that in a movie series about resisting corrupt authority, (Rebels versus Empire), the lesson Poe learns is blindly trust authority even when you have strong reason not to.
Not true complitly. It true that Disney cares only about money. But they also care about Star Wars. Thats reason why people leading Lucasarts before Last Jedi had so many free space to do whatever. People that lead Lucasarts are killing Star wars and Disney cant do much because nobody wants to jump in thit hot potato and try to save it.
The more of something you have the less valueable it gets JUST LIKE STAR WARS FILMS the more we it get the more I hate Star Wars (I know I spelled a word wrong) (The original Trilogy is great)
Nah he actually has some points Star wars definitely got a knive in the back from Disney, but they did some sort of good things. But they are choking star wars to death right now. Tge intire new trilogy made no sence But ey!
Resistance: What do we have? Guy 1: Well we have these Y-Wings that have been used for easily 50+ years now. Guy 2: If your pilots know how to fly them they're pretty useful. Resistance: Hey what're those? Guy 1: Oh these? They're some bomber that takes about 5 people to use. They're basically made of paper and they move *really* slow- Resistance: *I'LL TAKE TEN.*
Y wings are fighter bombers not heavy bombers, old ones at that. Even if they did have them there and in working condition, and the Tie Fighters didn't tear them apart they probably couldn't do enough damage to stop a ship of that size before expending their explosives and having to return to base.
You have to have both a droid that can be programmed for such a task and disposable Y wings, I know they had drone bombs in one of the games based off the Tie Fighter models. The slow bomber was likely supposed to be similar to a B-52 or Short Sterlings. They would get torn apart if not properly supported. They weren't in TLJ, not only did the Tie Fighters outnumber the Resistance fighters, these were advanced Tie's that probably don't go down in one shot. Tie Fighter was based on the Japanese Zero.
You missed the biggest military kerfuffle the first order committed: "Our ultra-death laser is charged, commander! Which should we shoot at - mostly abandoned, landlocked rebel base, or the very full-of-rebels, very likely-to-escape rebel ships?" "Why, the Choice is Obvious, Captain! Fire at Will!"
@G Ren no one has stated that Rian uttered the words himself. That became a meme because defenders of the film were claiming we only disliked the film because we didn't like the choices made regarding Rey's lineage, Smoke's fate, and Luke's treatment. Granted those choices were awful, but we have other gripes that don't just amount to undermining our fanfictions and the "subverting expectations" mantra is just an inside joke.
"Some arms dealers must be making a killing, scamming the FO and the Resistance with old tech with new paints jobs" Imagine the arms dealer that sold the Resistance those bombers? He definitely laughed all the way to Canto Bight.
Arms dealers always make a killing selling slightly upgraded equipment to whoever will pay for it during wars. That's probably the most realistic part of the whole movie.
@elmateo77 Probably true, but the content creator (sorry, just stumbled on this video), is perhaps unaware that this kind of thing does actually happen. One example that jumps to mind is the USAF C-130 which is on its, what, "J" version last I knew. The plane has been around since the sixties and simply updated with new tech because it is good at what it does. Why go with some new "toy" when the old one works fine, as long as you keep it current with tech upgrades… like the C-130J. Plus, this means you don't need a bunch of retraining for techs fixing and crew flying the planes, and you have a lot of parts that are interchangeable between models. Militarily it makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with the CC on his analysis of the film. So. Much. Waste. And incompetence… displayed on screen and in the writer's room.
@Haku infinite Leia had 0 power because her political enemies published that she was daughter of Dart Veider. Thats reason why they dont have great support from Galaxy. And First Order didnt had old equipment. Its equipment based on old Imperial tech but modernised.
@Haku infinite What the hell are you talking about? Luke was the only one at Vader's Pyre. They never told everyone he saved the galaxy. Vader had a reputation of genocide and pain. It's obvious his children wouldn't just go around saying they're related to him. Hell most people didn't even know Vader was Anakin.
"But the Resistance are not happy with the First Order getting all the incompetent ones and also decide to be stupid." A perfect summary of the entire Sequel Trilogy thus far.
10,000,000 thumbs up for this comment. George Lucas Votes "No Confidence" in Kathleen Kennedy ability to be in Charge of STAR WARS! I know "George Lucas" was paid a LOT of $$$$$$$ for the rights of SW, but Man, Disney Should had Got him to write & Produce VII, VII & IX.
You actually raise a good point about Vice Admiral Pinky. Why wasn't she on the main bridge with the other officers? So, I looked into her background. Apparently, Admiral Pinky is an example of a political promotion. She has no education in military tactics or organization whatsoever. She was in the Empire's program for young politicians, became friends with Leia Organa. She helped out Princess Leia a couple of times during the Rebellion. Then, she joins the Resistance military with her friend and is immediately promoted to "Vice Admiral." She is also placed in charge of a corvette (a small military vessel) named the Ninka. This explains a ton of things. Why would a Vice Admiral be only given command of a small vessel? Because she has no experience with command. It also explains why she was still alive when the High Command structure were all killed. She was on her small little ship, out of the way. But, because she was an Admiral, she was the highest ranking officer there. Now, a reasonable person would say "okay, who are my best commanders? Let me talk to them." But, of course, she's too smart for that. If you compare her actions to Princess Leia's actions in Star Wars, you can see the problem. Princess Leia listened to her military leaders and let them do the actual planning rather than doing it herself. Admiral Pinky tells her senior military adviser to shut up and nearly destroys the fleet because of it.
Another thing connected to this. If Pinky had any clue what she was doing, she could have saved the Raddus. BECAUSE THE NINKA HAS NUKES. Why have nukes never been used, when the mere presence of the Ninka and a few other things like some power systems, definitely show that they are a thing? And the lasers. THE LASERS. They've got to not be lasers to function the way they've been shown constantly. Not just the dropping, but also the fact that they can do anything in those tiny blasts. About the only way the lasers might do any damage is if they're constantly concentrated on a point to melt the metal.and if the shots are plasma, which is often used to explain the nature of them, then they'd still need to be concentrated on a point for a little while. Yes, the plasma is hotter, but it's surrounded by space. I doubt one or two shots as seen in many of these scifi universes would be able to transfer all their heat to the metal, especially when surrounded by a near complete vacuum. The heat's going to try and equally disperse, and what few atoms are in space are really cold, so the energy would disperse onto those, or radiate away. I'm probably missing something, but I want to know how the weapons actually work to work as they do. Is it superheated slugs? If so, why don't they lose all their heat before impact? Where's the ammunition stores? Wouldn't be just as effective to fire cold slugs, considering their heat's going to disappear?
On a real warship, the captain, fleet commander, and first officer are *_never_* in the same place during combat. This is to prevent the ship/fleet from being decapitated by one shot.
@@handlesarecringe957 While that is correct, they are almost always on the same ship. For example, the captain would be on the bridge, the admiral would be in the CIC, and the XO would be in damage control. But, they would all be on the same ship. Not on different ships.
well BirdMemes is correct. the original trilogy was careful not to make it a superhero movie that's why you can't do everything with the force. this truly is now space magic. force projection bullshit was the worst of all, we now have luke being split in two entities which communicate faster than light. this is the definition of pulling things out of your ass. next time rey-sue can just teleport herself anywhere in the universe cause there are not rules. the worst thing is that this changed the rules forever, now you can do whatever you want and that means space magic.
Got it in one. That’s also why the ships are either nonsensical (the slow terrible bombers), or just old ships with different paint jobs. Fanfics aren’t known for their creativity or original ideas.
Naahh, to qualify for force choking, you have to be in command of a Star Destroyer at the very least. I figure Vader would just have ordered him to join his flight of Tie Fighters on a couple of occasions. Given the fact that competent Tie Fighter pilots don't last that long, an incompetent one would be killed off on his first mission.
He would have to even be in the navy to be an ensign A General is of the army, what the hell is this man even doing on a bridge?! They got one thing right when po said he wasn't in charge, security get this idiot off yhe command deck. Seriously did the FO just say "You know what, potato potato" ?
In the US Navy, yes. Or in Star Trek, LOL In Star Wars, as best I can tell, they mix the ranks, and Commander is like a Major, or maaaybe Lt. Colonel. It seems what we would know as a real-life or Star Trek Navy Captain would be more like an Admiral in Star Wars. Captains are simply in charge of a ship (or maybe a small squadron of fighters). Meh. Space Fantasy rank structure, I guess.
Commander outranks captain in Star Wars and since Poe was in the navy, he was a wing commander which meant he commanded a wing I can't remember how many squadrons were in a wing but somehow he went from that to squadron leader which I guess is captain which is kinda like, they demoted him twice but whatevs, I just want to know who took his place
Captain, leads an air group Commander, leads a wing Lieutenant commander, leads a squadron (a.k.a squadron leader) So yes, his demotion is backwards. When Poe called the bombers, A-wings, and X-wings, there were no less than SIX who out-ranked him: General Organa (Raddus) Admiral Ackbar (Raddus) General Ematt Vice Admiral Holdo (Ninka) Vice Admiral Jotis (Vigil) Vice Admiral Resdox (Anodyne) So none of the senior officers call off the attack. Holdo was in fact commanding The Ninka, yet she let both squadrons of bombers, 4 A-wings, and 8 X-wings leave her hangar! Under what circumstances would Poe be allowed to put his arms on Vice Admiral during a disagreement? In what organized unit would a General slap a ranking officer?
Ok, ok..I'm a professional general, some enemy is mocking me over the radio, do I? A) open fire? Or B) continue chatting? "Boring conversation anyway......Luke we're going to have company."
I think they did it on purpose to "subvert expectations"... audience expected a good movie with scary villains and smart heroes so they made a pathetic parody.
The plan didn't fail because of DJ, it failed because a First Order droid was smart enough to spot BB-8 bouncing off of things while hiding under a trash can. They got caught, then DJ bought his freedom by selling out the Resistance escape plan....that he somehow knew, even though Poe, Finn, and Rose didn't. The plan might have worked if it wasn't for the comic relief bit of BB-8.
From the dialogue, the plan wasn't to return to their ship but steal an escape pod and try to return to the Resistance. Thus, they "couldn't just leave him behind"-cliche. Admittedly, some writer must have seen the weakness in this plot point and retconned the dialogue to explain why they didn't just leave BB-8 on their "appropriated" ship (you know, since the Resistance is so noble that they don't steal ships).
KnightRaymund they are still trying to sell the moronic idea that the First Order that has essentially conquered the entire galaxy would not know to scan for small ships fleeing the literal last resistance ship as it runs out of fuel which the first order was aware of. Anyone willing to buy that is a worlkd class dumb shit.
The explanation (or excuse) I heard for why Holdo didn't tell Poe about her plan was that she didn't trust him. Well, if she trusted Poe so little that she wouldn't even tell him her plan to save the Resistance, why would she even keep him around? If he's _that_ untrustworthy and they know he has a proclivity to do stupid things without thinking them through, why not just stick him in the brig to keep him from causing more damage? Let's think about this. Since Holdo didn't tell Poe about the plan, he decided to take matters into his own hands and send Finn and Rose off on some fool's errand to find some hacker who none of them have ever heard of and have no idea what he looks like. By some stroke of dumb luck, they manage to find _a_ hacker, even though he wasn't the one they were looking for, and he ends up betraying the Resistance, and that's how the First Order finds out about the escaping transport ships and starts shooting them. Do you get it? It was Holdo keeping Poe out of the loop that caused the destruction of the Resistance. Because of her, _hundreds of people died, and the First Order nearly killed off their final obstacle to enslaving the entire galaxy._ How did somebody that incompetent become a Vice Admiral?
I can do one better. She didn't trust Poe even though the prior day he blew up the StarKiller Base. SHE didn't trust the biggest hero the resistance had because....? And had Poe left the dreadnaught alone then there would have been no chase just three orbital cannon'd ships. Holda is either an idiot or unimaginably incompetent.
Holdo also ignores the fact that the bombers sacrifice was not in vain as the dreadnot that was destroyed would have completely destroyed the resistance ships during the slowest chace in all of history as those orbital artilary weapons would have punched right through their shields. If it werent for pos attack and the bomber squadrons sacricice they would have lost everyone But you gotta ignore all that because he's a white male and you need to push this wamen agenda
I have been very bothered by the mistreatment of Poe. It becomes a MAIN PLOT POINT that all the First Order's cannons are a little too weak to destroy the Resistance ship---for 10 hours or whatever---and NOBODY thanks Poe for saving all their lives? If the Dreadnought had been there for the 'chase' the whole resistance would have died right then. This video at least pointed out that they would have died in the bunker if the Dreadnought was still around, but hiding in a bunker might not have been the plan in the first place if the Dreadnought was still around. There's no excuse for slapping Poe across the face, demoting him, and never acknowledging that his decision to disobey orders saved everyone's lives.
@@MrMitchbow There actually were other star-fighter Survivors, Kylo ren killed them all with a single shot to the Hanger bay which was loaded with Ammo and fuel.
He man, she "General" wohman. That simple. He toxic, he can take down WHOLE FIRST ORDER BY HIMSELF and he still be dirt because she WOMAN in baking dress, that new femdisney star wars.
As it looked in the film, the Fleet would have been long gone had they not waited for Poe - and had the Dreadnaught jumped through to chase them, they'd have had another chance to bomb it - perhaps with it more separated from its fleet.
But he is disregarded her orders and he deliberately chose do to the opposite of her orders. He is a deserter and he got a crap ton of people killed with that (as portrayed in the film, i dont know why they followed his orders and the ones from the general). If you desert, even if it was good for the outcome of the battle, you could get killed for that in most armies. I dont expect them to kill one of the main characters, but it is really weird, that he does not get at least put out of order.
Guy 1: Hey guys I have an idea for a good character! Group: Whoa lets hear it! Guy 1: Ok here it is: she's like a storm trooper but a leader storm trooper. Group: Ok and? Guy 1: She's really tough, smart, and able to do what is required to win. Group: Ok let's kill her off for no reason Guy 1: Ok........ wait wat
3 A-Holes Exactly. I wanted to see her do more, I wanted to know more about her, but that all went down the shitter when they decided to just have her be useless in the Force Awakens.
random thought, when Rose saved Finn from himself, her stupid line about 'protecting those you love' and stuff should have been 'this rebellion has enough dead heroes.' It conveys more or less the same sentiment, but in a far better manner and actually makes sense.
rose delusionally sacrificed the rebellion to sexually assault finn if luke did not battle meditate his consciousness across space the rebellion would have died right there
I had thought Rose was an okay-ish character up until then (the resistance are volunteers and she tasers them for trying to leave, but I get it; they need everyone) Then she said that, and i thought of two things - Kenobi's "point of view" line (despite that being a cop out when he said it), and that five year olds know when playing games to knock down the baddies' figures and buildings. So Rose was, to the best of her knowledge, dooming all of her friends with less understanding than a five year old.
@Haku infinite to be honest, I watched it at the cinema and couldn't stand to waste time by rewatching it, so I'll have to take your word for it. So where she's not being a psychopathic militant monster (rendering her later bizarre statement to Finn even more incomprehensible), there were a few bits of dialogue that she had on the pointless casino romp that didn't enrage me by their very nature. I'll put it that way.
It felt like there was an entire subplot cut from this movie. The Resistance is being tracked through hyperspace, which shouldn't be possible. I assumed that this was supposed to hint that there was a traitor among the Resistance who was either sending signals to the First Order or had installed some kind of tracking device on the ship. The movie even establishes a way for this to be done, with the tracking device on Leia's wrist which Rey can apparently locate from anywhere in the universe. Having a traitor on board would also give Holdo an actual reason to withhold details about her plan until the last minute, to prevent possible sabotage by a First Order agent. Instead, like so much else it's just never explained or dwelt upon, they have a hyperspace tracker because otherwise there's no plot. All setup, no payoff.
I actually intuitively assumed this the first time around as well; applying the principles of Occam's razor, the most logical explanation to both the hyperspace tracking & Holdo's reluctance to share her plan must have been that there was a traitor onboard. Alas, the writers really bummed this...
I wouldn't say that was hypersapce tracking, I'd call it more of trajectory plotting. It has been established in lore (Refer to Episode 5, Rebels, and a few Clone Wars Episodes) that most hyperspace travel occurs over very straight courses, which scientifically makes sense because G forces are a thing if you make a turn G Forces will be amplified by speed. That would mean even the slightest course change at light speed will put stresses on the air frame that would be exponentially larger than going in a straight line and making multiple jumps, adjusting angle between jumps. There is a reason the Imperial Officer shouts something to the effect of "Get me a list of every spaceport on their last know trajectory." They know that they will likely keep going in a straight line because it would be extremely dangerous to attempt drastic maneuvering, and even then they know what the realistic maneuvers would be for a given craft and factor that into their calculations. Thus they aren't tracking, but predicting.
based on her actions, I actually thought that The Pinky was a traitor throughout the most of the movie, until the part where she died. When she was left alone i thought she would give up the ship to the New Order :))
Unfortunately for me, I can tell who is a good guy and a bad guy based on how they look in television and movies. A black male who enunciates his every word with a slight African accent, for example, is incapable of being anything except for a good guy (unless there is a more sympathetic female, homosexual or minority protagonist that he's behaving as the foil for).
"They were conserving resources which makes sense" No it doesn't actually. This is the last shred of resistance to the First Order left. This would be the perfect time to unload all your assets in one overwhelming attack that crushes the Resistance. The Star Destroyers should have immediately attacked the fleet rather than the base, which would have cut off the base from escaping. THEN you can bombard the base at your leisure and ensure they do not escape.
It actually does hurt that a fictional war movie can’t seem to follow military doctrine for the sake of drama. Rogue One actually did look like a war movie with clever tactics, strategy, and risks. Both sides looked very capable but the empire always had the upper hand. I would have hired it’s director for this movie. I really hope they can learn from this, and make the next Star Wars better than this one.
PhobosDynami I don't think Ig I was in one of them I would care about two soldiers with no way to hurt me running away when I have speeder I need to shoot at
All the speeders were on the way back to the base by then, maybe back inside even. They had nothing else to shoot at. Besides we know they can hit small targets like that. They did it in Empire.
I'm 47yo and grew up immersed in Star Wars since A New Hope. I've also been extensively trained in military strategies and tactics ranging from NATO based, Warsaw Pact, NSW, and various other types of combat/warfare. Part of my training was a vast and in depth study of historical military leaders, their strategies/tactics, and their various wins/losses. Everything everyone does in this movie, from a military(and even non military) standpoint is, to use common military vernacular, a clusterf**k. Period. There are moments when, yes, characters behave as a person would under desperation, but almost every other action or reaction goes against human nature as we know. They are human, after all. Suspending disbelief to accommodate for such issues as the Force still doesn't affect how each character acts and reacts in a non-typical manner for humans as we understand human nature. Being a great and long time fan of Star Wars, I would have gladly worked as the film's military advisor free of charge in hopes to bring the best film possible to fans such as myself. As it stands, this film is a farce. Big budget production with a B movie script and screenplay.
B movie level? You're more generous than I've been. I get subverting expectations, but it felt like it pissed over people's ability to form rational thoughts.
@@skoulikiagamwtanekrasas not really they even pursue the rebels. Remember the dogfights with the imperial fighter and the Millenium Falcon ? That's just imperials pursuing fleeing rebels.
I think the point of her dress was a homage to the look of Mon Mothma. Except that Mon Mothma was an actual politician, a senator actually not a military officer
Mon Mothma actually looks like a senator with the same vibe as a Roman senator donning toga. There is elegance, there is class, and there is prestige. Holdo's dress might look better on other aliens.
"Why didn't Pinky immediately order the fleet to scatter?" What, you mean like they did in Empire Strikes Back? Oh, what good would that do? I mean, all that happened after Empire Strikes back was most of the rebels escaping so they could regroup later and fight back at a better time of their choosing, which allowed them to blow up the second Death Star. Oh, wait, I think I see where you're going with that.
@@Stevarooni love hasn't worked so far, so, why not pull a Stellaris and Slaughter your enemies, enslave different species, also turning them into your own Lifestock, and make a gigantic Galaxy-wide empire?
So I watched a TED talk a few days ago given by a lady who was born into a cult in New Zealand. She talked about the various tactics the authority figures in her cult used to attempt to control her and others, and how it eventually failed to stop her friend, some of her siblings, and eventually her entire family, including her, from leaving the cult. These tactics include: -public humiliation -physical abuse -solidarity between the authority figures (since if they could be wrong, then the cult itself might be fallible). Anyone notice how Leia and Pinky handle Poe in this film? Public humiliation, physical abuse (furthering the himiliation), Leia supporting Pinky's authority without knowledge of what her plan is... Oh, and how do people wind up responding to this? They run away. The Resistance's leadership uses cult tactics. They're not the good guys.
Lol I suppose that might be the most realistic aspect of this movie if you think about it. There are no good guys in war, though one side might have a perceived moral advantage.
All the newest Disney fake Star Wars movies were written by Feminist SJW Scum. This explains the Resistance's leadership completely, as well as the utter failure of these movies.
The bombs falling in the artificial gravity would make the “fall” towards the dreadnought, but they are all at a different height and that means they leave the gravity at different speeds which would just make them slam into each other in space
You know what's more nonsensical about those bombers? If you look at the wiki page for them, they have a hyperdrive... that means if they had someone who could calculate to high accuracy, then the ENTIRE beginning dogfight didn't need to happen. And then I thought more into it, and wondered... WHY the hell do these bombers have a hyperdrive?
@@ab14967 It comes back to the problem of why they didn't a Y-Wing or a B-Wing. Really you don't even have take out the entire dreadnought or bother with useless point defense cannons. What they could have done was while Poe was stalling Hux with the negotiations, Have some Y-Wings and X-Wings destroy the orbital bombardment cannons and then circle to attack the ship's bridge form behind aiming at the neck. Boom the Dreadnought is dead weight.
@@SineN0mine3 Still that raises the questions why bombs? Why not a proton torpedo or a some other tired and tested technology that is still proven to work and wouldn't make the mission a suicide run as a bonues?
Maybe, but our military strategist here must not be familiar with air power. Even most regular military aircraft are quite old designs, fighters included. However, that's the airframe design, not the current specification. Aircraft are constantly updated whether it be mechanical components, engines, weapons, radar, and most glaringly their avionics and human interface. Look at a 1st gen F16 or MiG 29 VS the current versions of those. Spec sheets or just cockpit photos will make it obvious. Similar things happen with ground systems too. So outer appearance don't always follow technology, especially when it comes to complex machinery and aero-space hardware in particularly. That said, it's odd that the First Order is so huge and self-contained that it makes no sense that they'd be buying stuff from mere arms dealers. Even that supership alone has all the infrastructure for making literally everything for all forces, including star destroyers. The arms dealer would be good for nothing but scrap unless they were just buying stuff to use on spy and other special ops missions... which they should still have in their own stockpile (like old and captured ships/weapons).
Y-Wings and B-Wings fired their payloads horizontally, meaning they could engage capital ships from a distance. Literally the only reason these fat useless bombers exist in TLJ is because they really wanted sci-fi B-17s.
and because they realized that technology progresses over time. by the time of TLJ y-wings were 60 years old. these new bombers carry around 60 times the payload of a normal y-wing
charlie steele That's a strict regression in terms of tech. Manuverability is preferable against raw payload if it comes at the cost of slow, large size, with seemingly no sheilds. Ffs, one out of control TIE caused a chain reaction that took out like 3, because of how slow and lumbering they are. I'm well aware that the Y-Wing dates back to the Old Republic, but that's only reinforcing my point. It'd be like fighting the next war with flintlocks. I mean, have fun squaring that circle, but it's really painfully obvious Ryan Johnson wanted a #dramatic scene than one that made sense and was good because of good coreography, or strong charactarization, or compelling plot.
but the thing is the resistance cant get y-wings because no one manufactures them anymore. they are obsolete. the fact that one of them can destroy a first order dreadnaught, a ship 8km long, proves the point that they are not actually that slow and that they are really good bombers. plus since one is around 60 times the payload of a y wing it is far less crew necessary.
charlie steele stop trying to justify it. Rian Johnson chose style over sense, he even made his crew watch movies of B17s because he had a stylistic hard on for putting them in the movie. But he couldnt give the scene equal tension because it didnt make sense. Watch any WWII bomber movie, like the "Memphis Belle," and try to say he actually captured the tension and triumph. He didnt. By the way, if the Resistance is so "cash strapped," as you said in another post, how did they acquire these new bomber craft that we've never seen before? Wouldnt "cash strapped" imply older, recycled tech, not these fancy wonder-bombers that can destroy a dreadnought with a single pass? As you've stated repeatedly to try and prove theyre actually not slow - the dreadnought is 8KM long. Which is nothing in space battles, by the way, you do realize space is REALLY big? Even 100kph dooms a craft to be traveling for hours to reach anything. So a) yes, theyre very slow. B) No, theyre not "really good bombers." When you lose three to one crashing TIE fighter, and all of your bombers die in a single run, then no, that's not a "good bomber." You seem to be under this naive assumption that payload is all that matters. It's not.
im not saying that they are the best bombers. the fact that one tie fighter took out three shows that they are not the best tech as they don't have shielding and other defensive matters which proves that the resistance doesn't have the money to get these features. also the resistance doesn't get older bombers because they aren't in circulation anymore. no one goes im going to make 60 year old falling apart y-wings and make a profit off of it.
My question is: who paid for Star killer base? Do you know how much money, time and resources it would take in order to convert an entire planet into a death star!?
A better question is why bother? Why not simply install mass drivers on all the star destroyers and bombard a planet from deep space with rocks, smashing it into the stone age. Equally effective and infinitely cheaper.
@@chean1815 The even bigger question is how Starkiller is canonically listed as being half the size of Pluto in diameter and it supports native life, an atmosphere, has earth-like gravity, and is ice planet despite being the first planet in a system that has multiple stars and then we can get into all of the physics problems of draining a sun in minuites and turning the energy into a beam that can travel halfway across the galaxy in seconds and can be seen in the sky of a systems in entirely different region from the galaxy and somehow the beam splits perfectly enough to destroy every single planet in the system.
@@emberfist8347 The act of draining a sun to use as fuel is more dangerous than the weapon itself, thing is, if they have the technology to drain the sun, that would require a truly massive scale gravitational effect, based on how it looked, I'd say it was a black hole, only they would be strong enough to do that, having a black hole in their planet would not only destroy the planet, but even if they could find a way to shield themselves from it, why not just use the gravity well to destroy the planets? So many problems with starkiller base and super weapons in general.
The death of Ackbar and it barely even being acknowledged really pissed me off. In Star Wars lore he was a military genius and one of the most decorated war hero's in history. While Luke and Leia were certainly a core part of rebels winning it was Ackbar who first organized the rebel fleets of converted civilian ships and started scoring victories against the empire before Luke was even recruited. Leia was the one who brought him out of retirement after she told him of her concerns about the first order because she needed an experienced admiral to command the fleets.
Yep, it was a pretty disrespectful way to conclude the characters story. Would still like to see a Ackbar (in his prime) vs Thrawn encounter - assuming they don't do anything stupid with Thrawn in the final episodes of Rebels......Grand Admiral for the win obvs ;)
Cypren and Chris sonofPear Sorry to burst your bubble but Admiral Ackbars actor is still alive and well: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_D._Rose You probably meant the wrong Tim Rose who died in 2002: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Rose
The hyperspace tracking device deserved more time talking about how much it would change star wars battles. Up to TLJ if you start to lose a battle you could begin to retreat and jump to hyperspace as an end of a battle. So if you had an even engagement that turned against you or were in an engagement that heavily favored your opponent, your retreat was an easy option which would help to conserve manpower and ships. Now that retreat is no longer an option for one side in the war. Now there is basically no running away from a losing battle against the first order as they can just follow you and keep destroying you and your ships, splitting their fleet if you split yours to go in different directions, while any engagement the first order begins to lose they can just cut their losses and hyperspace away and save their remaining forces. Any engagement that the first order wins will now be a near complete and total disaster for the resistance. That is a game changer that would, if the sides were equal in military strength, almost certainly end in the side with that tech achieving victory. In a setting where the already far more powerful side gains that advantage I can not see any form of military victory being possible for the underdog. The lightspeed ram tactic Holdo pulls basically changes every fight you have ever seen on screen or ever will in star wars. You do NOT weaponize your FTL method unless you want a war setting where all the weapons end up being relativistic kinetic kill vehicles. Something the size and weight of an X-Wing traveling at 99% of lightspeed has the kinetic energy equivalent of 750000+ Megatons or equal to 15000+ of the largest bomb mankind has so far set off, the 50 Megaton Czar Bomba. Every X-Wing in Star Wars has a hyperdrive. One or maybe 2 X-Wing sized, droid flown and targeted hyperspace vehicles just going 99% of lightspeed could have obliterated the Deathstar with ease so they could have saved a lot of manpower and just had 2 astromechs fly 2 X-Wings into it. A 50 kg ball of metal at 99% lightspeed would wipe a country the size of France off the face of the earth. A ship the size of the 3.5 Kilometer long Radiss? You are now talking about amounts that are somewhat close to the Sun's entire output in one second or something like 380000000000000000000000000 joules of energy or 9 Billion or so megatons. That would have obliterated the entire Supremacy and sent trillions of its parts traveling at relativistic speeds in all directions and destroyed the entire FO fleet and the fleeing Resistance and probably rained holy hell on the Planet Krait most likely semi melting the crust facing toward the incoming, maybe 80% of lightspeed, debris projectiles and probably burning off most of its atmosphere.
This explanation is exactly what I figured to be the reason why hyperspace was never used as a weapon. If a hyperspace impact was more than likely capable of wiping out an entire star system, that would be a good reason why people don't do it. Of course, that doesn't necessarily apply with factions like the Empire or the First Order, who were clearly willing to inflict such destruction. But then again, that would clearly show how they morally conflict with the rest of the galaxy. Story potential aside, all the ways it makes you second guess battle tactics in Star Wars don't feel worth it. This is one of those cans of worms they just shouldn't have opened.
adarian The visual was really cool, therefore we can just take a Rian Johnson sized crap all over continuity and logical military tactics in the SW universe.
With that said, it is next to impossible to hit such a small target from across the Galaxy, even with a computer. A star or a planet may have a decent enough gravity well to aim for, but a Star Destroyer? It also doesn't help that you need a lot of space in front of you in order to accelerate to and beyond the speed of light. Beyond that, you actually need to know where your target is going to be at the time of impact, and like I said that target will be microscopic. So while you can talk about physics and morality, I think the level of practicality is also something to consider. That said, I think that between this and being able to see a planet blowing up from a quarter a galaxy away, I think its pretty clear that these people just don't know how space works.
You know, I believe it was Linkara who said it best: when you need supplementary materials to understand your story, then YOU ARE FAILING AS A STORYTELLER!
I think in some cases that would actually be fine, maybe even in a Star Wars movie, if it was a different type of movie. For example, in horror movies a lack of knowledge can be beneficial to the experience, but someone might want to know some details later anyways. However, main line Star Wars movies are not the right context for that, and it seems more like the books are just used to patch any noticeable holes in the plot or giving certain characters (Phasma) the personality they never got rather than elaborating on an already complete story.
According to Legends, the Y-Wing was being phased out in favor of the faster, more heavily armed and armored B-Wing by the end of the Galactic Civil War (Ep. 6). The absence of the Y-Wing makes sense. The absence of the B-Wing does not.
No, that makes even LESS sense why they dont have them, if Leia was starting up the resistance, they could have just grabbed some mothballed Y-wings which would be easier to train people, more efficient, and just better overall
Actually, the absence of Y-wings is about the only thing that DOES make sense in this movie. We know from the original trilogy and the Clone Wars/Rebels tv shows that the Y-wings were already an older design as of the battle of Yavin. In fact the rebels had removed almost all of the Y-wings armor in order to make it possible for techs to preform maintenance on them, giving us an idea of how maintenance intensive they were becoming, and the empire was in the process of recycling remaining clone wars era fighters. If we assume the same level of technological advancement that exists in our universe, exists in the star wars universe, then by the time of the last Jedi, Y-Wings were anywhere from 50-60 years old. So using them, would be akin to flying a world war 2 Wildcat against an F-22.
They may have been similar in appearance, but they were newer, better models of X wings and Ties. It's like comparing a brand new Chevy Corvette to a 1980s model. Same name, some visual similarities, different performance. The Rebel Alliance, for example, used the T-65 X wing, whereas the Resistance used the T-70, an already outdated model by the time of TFA. Still, it was faster and better equipped than the older model. The Empire used the TIE/ln, whereas the First Order uses the TIE/fo which is equipped with deflector shields, improved engines, more powerful laser cannons, improved solar cells, etc. The newer fighters are visually similar to but much better than the older ones.
Let’s see either A) Waste the energy to blast a couple stuck on foot in a battlefield, who would’ve been killed off later in the assault. Or B) Ignore them and go for the main target with the huge gun. Hem. . . Also you skipped over the fact that Finn managed to drag an unconscious Rose across the entire span of battlefield, that originally required them to use speeders to get the distance in the first place, and they weren’t killed at all. Da heck?
crypto1223 I mean you could send a unit to capture them for interrogation if you really didnt want to unload some clips on them. Disney ladies and gentlemen, disney
La Corgi de America et Knuckles thats always been a thing in star wars. Even the clone wars had that problem where ships wrre destroyed in outer space and tgey just fell to a planet that suddenly exists but was nowhere in sight earlier.
Fuel isn't ever really mentioned, but ships in Star Wars don't seem to "orbit". If they lose power, they fall out of the sky.. which is exactly what would happen if they were simply working to continuously counteract gravity rather than moving at thousands of meters a second around a planet. Perhaps if you're not planning on staying long it is simply easier to fight that gravity to stay motionless rather than accelerate into a proper orbit. Of course, that falling out of the sky bit would take minutes to hours depending on altitude, rather than seconds.
Ricardo Martinez they fall towards a planet cause planets have gravity. They also fall slowly. These ships come to a screeching halt in dead space where there is very little gravity effecting those ships. Inertia is a thing..those ships could have kept going without fuel.
Also not to mention on the prequels/clone wars you could argue them blowing up from incoming fire via missiles or torpedos or whatever could cause them to “fall” because the two usually separated parts are being forced away in opposite directions because of the energy of the explosion. A kind of analogy is like dropping a rock on water.
Regarding your last point; machines of war tend to last quite a while. Usually designs are updated in subtle ways to meet newer specifications and to incorporate new technology, but the basic design remains the same. The Supermarine Spitfire, for example, saw operational service for over 20 years. It was originally designed as a defensive fighter, but was later adapted to become a multi role reconnaissance aircraft. A good design is a good design. If X-Wings and Tie Fighters were still functional enough, there is no reason why they wouldn't see a long service life through incremental updates. When it comes to the military you don't always pick the best stuff possible, because the best stuff is inevitably going to be more expensive, which in turn makes losses more costly. Remember, you only have to be better than the enemy to win. Sometimes "good enough" is all you need.
The problem being that nobody was building Y-Wings anymore not even the corp that designed em. The newest one the Rebel Alliance had rolled off the assembly line near the end of the clone wars. Nearly every one they did have was either in civilian service or stolen from an imperial scrapyard. They were obsolete and a pain in the ass to maintain. B-wings would have pushed them out of service before the ink on the New Republic charter was dry.
I agree completely. It's been stated numerous times how versatile the X-Wings were which was why they were used so often. They had a powerful arsenal, shields, torpedoes and probably most importantly, a hyperdrive. Look at some naval ships. The USS Missouri is a prime example. While she wasn't completely in active service between her first commissioning and her last decommissioning, it was more than 50 years between those 2 dates and she stuck around for a long time. TIE fighters, while they may have been utter crap, they were cheap. The whole reason the Empire used them was because they cost almost nothing to produce and in large quantities, that was ideal. They got the job done (only being bested by the Rebels). Swarm tactics were possible with these fighters. So they are most definitely crap, but once you start piling them up, they become a formidable force. They weren't that crap, but it's the cheapness in quality that I'm referring to here: The Russian military in WW2. They made tons of tanks (no pun intended. No, I'm not proud) but didn't refine them to such a degree as the Germans did with theirs. This meant they got them out onto the battlefield fast and in vaster numbers. (yes, there were many other factors to their victory on the Russian front, but that's not why I'm talking about it). The Russian tanks had so many flaws. Kinks in the steel, quite a few other imperfections I can't remember. But they did work. Good enough IS enough. Basically, X-Wings were fantastic because they were so versatile tho more expensive to maintain so their numbers were lesser. TIE fighters were the exact opposite. Fantastic in numbers and frightful when used in swarm tactics (like in the Battle of Endor from RotJ) but due to their cheap quality, they suffered if they weren't in groups. The First Order just don't have someone with a functioning brain. TIE fighters abuse their numbers to overwhelm an enemy. That is their design. USE THEM THAT WAY. They don't have the excuse that they didn't think of it. They didn't need to. The Empire already did the thinking for them. They just had to implement the same tactics and in most of these battles, they would've won! They had every reason to use their TIE fighters and number advantage and they just didn't do it. Using a reason such as "they're only rebel scum" is stupid and whoever says it needs a blaster bolt between the eyes. They know what the Resistance is capable of, so holding back and not using their advantages is basically the same as slapping a fat target on their foreheads and closing their eyes. Anyway, I'm done.
@@averagejoe9040 An interesting analogy as the Y-Wing was pretty much analogous to the British Swordfish torpedo bomber. Old, slow, but pressed into service because it could still carry the payload. The B-Wing was specifically designed to attack Star Destroyers, based on what they learned flying the Y-Wing.
Except the T-34 tank. The Russians ran a survey on how long a T-34 would survive in combat, which I think was 6 months, and designed it to only last that long if it made it easier to build. Harsh but effective
The Republic fell and lost all military force and cohesion in ONE DAY across an entire galaxy according TFA/TLJ. Why would they surrender given that Starkiller base is gone. All they had to do is add a multiyear time gap between the two films. A bridge too far I suppose.
Really, this should have been the story of one of the republics fleets in trouble. A trap in a region of space where hyperspace jumps don't work or using the interdictors. And it should have been modeled on a real world battle between fleets.
Chris sonofPear The Resistance clearly would have sent messages out about destroying Starkiller Base... On the other hand, we've seen how terrible the Resistance leaders are at communicating.
Either of two things I suspect to be the reason: 1) Modern movie makers wrongly believe the audience to be so shallow, that what matters are a few cool shots, rather than an immersive battle. 2) Modern movie makers correctly believe the audience to be so shallow, that what matters are a few cool shots, rather than an immersive battle.
There were clearly a lot of people who enjoyed the spectacle over story telling, character and lore consistency, so Rian proved why Hollywood can keep shiting out shiny yet substance less Movies and keep making money off of people infatuated by shiny things...
The answer is yes to both. There are significant amounts of people in both camps. What makes a successful action scene is being able to appeal to both, not assume one has a massive majority while alienating the other.
@@shortlong8936 - If you're insinuating Star Wars fans care about flash over substance, I have to disagree. I don't know a fan who liked the new films or who liked the heavy use of CG in the PT or OT rereleases.
Or neither. Personally I like pacing, cinematography, musical score, acting, and character work. And i easily forgive things that dont make sense with the plot, or with battles. Especially with star wars. The ships never made any sense in space. how they were originally designed, they wouldnt be able to change direction, but they clearly do. So obviously with space battles I chalk it up to setting up a scene essential for a character's arc, rather than realism. Unfortunately, most characters arcs in this film either fall flat, or don't correlate with how they were previously written. the musical score was average. cinematography was above average. the acting ranged from average, to great. The dialogue went from piss poor, to average. So we end up with a mediocre, at the best moments, film.
When they used those bombers I remember thinking “Hey where are the y wings that have been used since the clone wars “ And that’s when I realised Oh god what have they done
Bullshit, a single wing of y-wings completely disabled an ISD in rogue one with ion blasts. The B/X-17 is meant for two roles. Cargo drops and low orbit bombing of ground targets. They were never designed for space combat. Once again, where are the Y-wings?
Trigger Me6 well there are two reasons they could have possibly not used them one they didn't have any and two they didn't have any ion or proton torpedoes. Remember the resistance didn't even have enough fuel to get away.
devin Tomlinson If they didn't have proton torpedoes, then logistics should be shot. Even the rebellion had proton torpedoes in the thousands, they aren't hard to get. The Y-wing itself charges the ion blast. Y-wings were the main stay of every rebellion fleet during open space combat. Once again, if logistics fucked that fuck. They should be shot. Not to mention the lack of B wings. The bomber that came to replace Y-wings in the EU and the cartoon series Star Wars: Rebels
Trigger Me6 the simple fact is that the Rebellion was better funded than the resistance. That alone would explain why they didn't have any fighter bombers.
You know, every time I see Snoke, I'm disappointed. I remember when his hologram first appeared in Force Awakens and it was huge. That would have been so interesting if he was a giant. (I know, this is about military analysis. But it still bothers me. Carry on.)
because This movie is made for children, the test audiences were 10 year olds. This explains all the plotholes, the kids wouldnt notice or care. This explains the buffoon villains. This explains all the cutesy creatures, max xmas profit in merch. This explains the childish jokes. This explains why Leia and Holdo acted like soccer moms instead of realistic military leaders. THIS EXPLAINS CANTO BIGHT: The sequence is there to introduce the wish fulfillment audience analogues, the slave kids. The kid with unexplained force powers in particular, placed at the very end, would make the kid audience jump with ecstasy. Disney, turning Star Wars into Frozen
I am not sure. If I were a child, I'd be bored stiff by this film. The prequels at least had some excitement in them but TLJ is incredibly dull and nothing exciting happens. Have any children told you they liked The Last Jedi? To be honest, the film was probably made to be a platform for Kathleen Kennedy's politics and to further the goals of 'wamen' rather than to appeal to any particular age demographic.
smart children would be bothered by the plot holes and other dumb stuff. But most kids would laugh at the childish humor, like the cute animals, and insert themselves into the mary sue characters. This is what dumb kids like, and most young kids are dumb. And some people just dont grow up or get smarter despite school. But yes, the KK hand does carry blame for many dumb aspects of the film
George Lucas says Star Wars is for 12-year-olds. See here, at about 0:40: th-cam.com/video/THKzwzieF40/w-d-xo.html Disney may have dumbed it down a bit, though. :-)
KingEmperorPenguin my younger brother were absolutely memorized by this film and so were my younger cousins, even I loved the movie and I'm a HUGE star wars fan.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Rian Johnson the Fool? I thought not. It's not a story the writers would tell you. It's a Stupid Legend. Rian Johnson the Fool was a Director, so powerful and so foolish he could use his authority to create plotholes... He lacked such knowledge of the source, he could even move characters from one side of the room to another in the blink of an eye. The fools side of directing is a pathway to many stories some would consider unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was the fans not liking his movie, which eventually, of course, they did. Unfortunately, he created such a mess that Jar Jar Abrams had to return to make the ninth episode. Ironic. He could create a beautiful movie, but not a good one.
Yet his visual direction was great and his political correctness so unsubtle and shallow that few professional critics got past the surface to dissect the husk of a story beneath.
I mean, shit, _anybody_ in rogue squadron beats the pants off Anakin. Poe being that good doesn't surprise me. Even Wedge could probably shoot down Vader.
To me it seems to hint at force-sensitive people who do not have enough power to wield the force, but can tap into the concentrated mentality that Jedi pilots seem to be capable of.
FTL couldn’t be weaponised in Star Wars cause of the lore behind it which Ryan Johnson was apparently unaware of. Note how the first six would talk about FTL: they would say something like “jump into hyperspace”. Hyperspace is essentially a parallel dimension where distances are reduced and therefore you effectively travel faster than light while never actually breaking the speed of light. The ram in Star Wars lore would just be her jumping her ship into another dimension and then appearing light years behind the enemy fleet once they exit hyperspace.
jsmall10671 no cause the physics in the Star Wars canon changed radically for no reason midway through. They didn’t have light speed in 4 they only had hyperspace jumps
Hyperspace and light speed are the same thing in the star wars universe Also it's not a different dimension, you still hit things in real space while traveling through hyperspace, that's how gravity well generators work, they trip the safeties of the ships on board hyperdrive computer into thinking the ship is going to hit a planet. In essence the maneuver COULD work, but to destroy a large target you need a large ship, accelerate something the size of the ratis, rattis? To a fraction of the spead of light and you have enough power to wipe a fleet, a fighter wouldn't have that kind of power. In the end it's a controversial "we can do it, but should we?" I am NOT defending this movie, just saying it seems some people aren't 100% on the lore and thought I'd simplify and clarify a few things.
@@zerochaotics1135 Yup. Anything with a large enough gravitational pull can pull a ship out of hyperspace as far as I know, and Snoke's ship is very big so it's possible. Also the gravity well generators in Rebels were designed to pull ships out of hyperspace. From my understanding, hyperspace is not necessarily another dimension. You could still hit real space objects. It's just that when you jump to hyperspace, you'd normally plot very accurate coordinates and you'd travel through a hyperspace lane which was already safe to use. They are pre-calculated so that you know that you're travelling a safe route and won't hit a planet. Hyperspace basically just is going really really fast, it's just normally people don't hit anything because they travel through safe, already known hyperspace lanes.TLJ doesn't break any hyperspace lore from what I can tell. It's just because kamikaze-ing the enemy in Star Wars has never been seen before that people think it's impossible. But it is more than possible. Something that DOESN'T make sense however is the fact that when in hyperspace, ships travel at lightspeed. If you apply real world logic to Star Wars, they travel a LOT faster than lightspeed. But no one critiques that.
@@FrostbiteCinematics the thing with gravity well generators is that it's actually a technology from the sith empire in the old republic days so it comes from more then just rebels, also gravity well mines were placed along hyperspace routes during the battle pf corecant during the clone wars slowing republic reinforments. TLJ as said doesn't break lore it's just not common. Also hyperspace is actually only a fraction of the speed of light. It still takes days and even months to get to places in the universe, also requires fuel and isn't instantaneous as it has led people to thank. Also thanks for a deeper explanation to my comment mate.
Maverick56 the effects of feminism are hate towards men, unhappy childless career women and cratering birth rates in affected countries,whatever you want to say about the origins of the sentiment.
@@goobermagoob9160 calm down, first I'd like to clarify: I'm a dude, second I disagree with feminism generally. But saying feminism is bad is too much of a blanket statement. In summary: I do believe that most people who weren't insane bailed on the idea already, but we should still specify to at least slow the growth of more radical versions
By the end of TFA the Resistance destroyed Starkiller base, THE largest military base the First Order had, and somehow they're on the losing side. More importantly, _how did the First Order get so strong in the first place!?_ The Empire had been crushed and a new alliance had been built to prevent its return. Where did the First Order get the resources to do all this?
BrokenMoonStudios remember that the resistance is so small because the Starkiller base shot a single system where they amassed most of their army. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT
@@aldergodric4324 Another point: Many of the larger ships are literally so big they have to be constructed in space. So even if the planets of the Republic were destroyed, the Republic's navy would have been relatively intact. Then leadership would have fallen to the Republic military, which would have nothing left to protect and a burning desire for revenge.
@@aldergodric4324 From the video of the weapon firing, it sort of branched out to hit each planet individually, but the explosions of the planets themselves didn't seem to branch out that far.
So we have a fleet led by a general(!?) and a fleet led by a politician? No wonder no one knew what they were doing: someone forgot to spend 200 energy buying an Admiral. (Stellaris Reference)
"[...] the resistance finding a way to escape and the first order realizing they have to fight the resistance another day." yeah but like... the Resistance now is down to like... 15 people. and they are all in the Millenium. there are still the stardestroyers... yep. the Resistance is officially gone. XD
I think the idea is that they spread out and scoop up the remnants of the Republic forces - the ones that were not hit by Starkiller base, and form them into a larger, stronger Rebellion. That's basically how they did it in Return of the Jedi, and it was the plan they had right there in TLJ. Let's hope JJ Abrams makes it worthwhile with an awesome space battle....
The situation at the end of The Last Jedi is honestly more hopeless than the end of The Empire Strikes Back. In TESB at least the Rebels were still a thing. Now the Resistance has under 100 people, just about no logical way to possibly defeat the First Order, and one ship, but they're still all happy and smiles and stuff. It makes no sense.
Which he did. Him ordering an attack on the Dreadnought was what she didn't approve of. Yes it was a good trade ... but *only in hindsight.* Leia anticipated they wouldn't be able to actually destroy the Dreadnought at all, *and was almost correct.* Is it worth it to sacrifice two rooks, both knights and a bishop just to capture that enemy queen? Or should you retreat, reposition, and re-engage at a time and place more advantageous to your side?
@@Flash244MCGaming or more like ALL your pawns for the queen? They did lose their whole fleet, after all. And overall, the opening space battle _was_ badly written on multiple levels.
Stratelier they lost their whole fleet because of later incompetent leadership. The dreadnought and other star destroyers were in position to immediately strike at the fleet. Poe took out the most immediate threat which allowed the fleet to jump to another system. Subsequently the useless resistance leadership couldn't figure out how to evade 1 ship that could track them while they have 5 ships.- not hard to split up your forces and retreat
@@Stratelier I don't like that chess analogy, because the bombers are more like pawns: slow, can do damage to any piece if in the proper position, and are better suited as area-denial weapons. The Dreadnaught isn't even the Queen, it is a rook. That is a better analogy.
When you realize Jar Jar Binks is a more competent military leader than Holdo. He lead the Gungan Grand Army to victory against the Trade Federation droid army, Holdo left the Resistance in tatters.
Actually thought they were corvettes when I first saw the pictures. Some kind of quick cheap weapon platform the Republic was rushing into service even if they weren't quite ready yet. Because of course the 90% of the surviving Republic military would be fighting in this film; at some point at least. I mean why wouldn't they?
anticarrrot Because the good guys can't have superior fire power! REEEEEEEEEEEEEE. But in all seriousness if you decided to compare the legends new republic navy against the canon La resistance and new republic sleep mode navy the biggest difference is the firepower of the ships, in legends the new republic fleet has access to MC90s, viscounts, super star destroyers (like wedge antilles' Lusankya), and a few other warships along with E-wing escort fighters and K-wing bombers. La resistance and new republic sleep mode on the other hand, has that (points at the scene from the last jedi)
I actually didn't have an issue with it. Traditionally, Star Wars space battles have been modeled after WW2 arial battles. This was another example of that. And that homage was a good enough excuse to include it.
Honestly, I didn't expect much tactical brilliance of the faction whose master plan it was to build yet another, bigger death Star with an even bigger weak spot.
Yet even the First Order has more military acumen than, well, ANYONE in MLP:FiM, which kind of undermines the claim that it's so much darker and edgier than previous generations of the franchise. Also the First Order has more claims to starbusting capabilities than Celestia or Luna's hilariously weak claims to such feats. They would also totally lose to the First Order on the first day of battle.
For death planet to even have a weak spot you need a never before heard of method of bypassing shields that's Ok, not really practical unless... You leave hyperspace within about 20m of the planet's surface. Completely breaking hyperdrive travel. Taking down the shields requires the first order to have a traitor working against them, and their "badass" chrome trooper to fold like a bitch. Even with the shields down the fighters (where are the bombers btw?) cannot damage the "weak point" without having been blown open from inside. And all of that is dependant on how the resistance knew about the weak point in the first place. Why does Fin know anything the writers need him to at the time. I was in the navy, if you aren't working with a system, you don't know the system. And that is on a 250m ship. This is a planet! And apparently Fin worked on the supremacy!
You know Lord Wellesly? Great Governor General and Military commander who perfected the Subsidary alliance? Yeah, one classmate of mine in his berserk fit of desperation to answer every question possible yelled with comical amounts of overconfidence in his answer: LORD WEASLEY!!!!
I don't care if you're a woman hitting a man, when you impulsively and publicly strike someone of a junior rank to you - you are abusing your authority. That's unconscionable conduct of a commanding officer. It sort of makes sense as a matriarch, as if Poe was being admonished by his mother or aunt, but Leia is supposed to be a military commander. This is a terrible choice that ultimately undermines the character's rank as Leia is either an unstable mad general or not really an officer. Military hierarchy works by command, it should have been a huge deal for Poe to disobey orders of his commander and he wouldn't need to have a punishment forced on him he'd be ordered to his quarters and he'd go there. Instead the way they did it, it was more like he was being nagged by his mother. They really wanted to make Leia an important authority figure... but they fucked it up and couldn't resist writing her as their mother rather than what her rank is supposed to be. They kept doing this. Instead of writing good commanding officers who were female, they wrote in bossy mothers and aunts. I bet they thought they were doing women a favour with this depiction, maybe strike an allegory of "oh if only you listened to your mother's nagging" but it fails to show women can do what's previously seen as a man's role. They gave these women the ranks that men traditionally held... but did NOT give them their role.
One of the most ingenious tricks pulled by capitalism making money off commie BS. Like selling a Che Guevera T-shirt for $75 when it was made in a Vietnamese sweatshop by 14 year old making 75c an hour. I'm just trying to imagine if Captain Picard of even Captain Janeway were to ever do such a thing, I just cannot conceive it as any other way than everyone just staring in utter shock at such an utterly out of character action. No officer, no REAL officer could do such a thing without consequence. Even if Picard did it, then no one would even have to do a thing, he'd say something like "it is obvious I am not fit to command" and immediately resigns and the second in command is formally made captain. And it would be no different for Janeway. But there's more to being an officer than occasionally referring to her as General Leia. She wasn't written or presented as a commander, which is why it wasn't a big deal for her to strike Poe, because Poe was more like her naughty son or nephew, that's why she argued with him. Did they think they were writing a "strong female character" it's clearly they can't think of a woman is any position superior to them except as a mother. And the lesson seems to be "mother is always right" well this isn't an argument about eating your vegetables, this is a military command in a time of war!
Poe acts like idiot -- to reinforce movie's message all male authority is incompetent Leia slaps Poe -- to reinforce society's message that men deserve to be slapped by vengeful women for their incompetence Neither faces any consequences -- (unlike George S. Patton!) because writers don't care about narrative coherence.
Leia's writing is pretty awful in all the new Star Wars stuff. In TFA she did nothing, she didn't lead, she didn't fight, she is just standing around and even repeating what was just said to her. Not to mention how she "let the boys talk" as they planned the attack on Starkiller Base. And now it was even worse, same as Holdo she doesn't wear uniform for no reason, she doesn't order the Bombers to head back, she is out for quiet some time and then she appears again supporting Holdo who is one of the most incompetent military leaders I ever encountered. It's pretty ugly that the defense is "muh, you are all sexist", considering the critics are people praising Ivanova from Babylon 5 or reading Honor Harrington, not to mention watching Buffy back in the days. And back to Leia, while Poe did something wrong wasn't SHE responsible for all that? I mean who deployed the ships? Leia, Ackbar or someone else in the High Command certainly did and since Leia ordered Poe back, it feels like she is responsible for the mission and she didn't do anything to call back the fleet, she just let it happen. Oh and without Poe, the First Order had this Super Star Destroyer with a devastating weapon that could easily shred big ships to pieces. Without Poes continued attack, the Raddus wouldn't had been able to fly for hours... The female military leaders are simply written really, really bad.
Valeria Caissa not saying I disagree with the analysis of how incompetent people were here but I always just assumed incompetence (esp. Military)was a theme of Star Wars. The empire put all of its money into two planet killers and lost or took unreasonable losses in every battle we saw in episodes 4-6. On of which was to ambush tactics from a native 3 foot high species who hadn't developed guns yet. Furthermore, we don't (from the movies) really know much about the resistance. They certainly have ranks but they don't seem like a competent rules oriented group given that they keep having to do last minute evacuations or their command bases which frequently contain "all thats left of the resistance". and we really don't know their culture either other than "anti empire and anti blowing up planets". It could be that light corporal punishment for insubordination is perfectly acceptable where as suicide raming attacks are taboo even in battle. Letting your commanders make a mistake is weird though but so is trying to convince someone to be evil a la the emperor in Return of the Jedi.
The best example of an intelligent commander is definitly Grand Admiral Thrawn. He is smart, calculating, cold with tons of infromations on his enemies and he knows the best tactics in almost every situation. I mean he literally figures out the movements of the enemy, before they even do it! He is the Sun Tzu of star wars, and the original sequels did an amazing job with his portrayal. Tarkin has the power. Vader the force. But Thrawn has something that can't be taken away: His mind. He is my personal favourite character in the whole star wars universe, and hell even the rebels showed some of the good old Thrawn on the screen. This is why is it so frustrating, that the same series that has villians like Thrawn, lets these incompetent mongrels into the commander seat.
@@user-re1uj7zt9m It was stupid for Disney to throw away the EU. Did Marvel throw away their universe when they started making movies? No. Tweaked it a bit, yes, but they didn't throw it away. There were so many wonderful stories to borrow from in the EU, which Disney acquired with the purchase of Lucas Film. Talk about killing the golden goose.
@@jongoff7829 Thinking that they could've just gone the way Marvel is going right now... A triology about the Thrawn series alone would've brought them billions... Or something about the Republic Commando series by Karen Traviss.... Instead they hire a director for episode 8 who didn't even see episode 7
It can still happen, they could introduce Thrawn into the new films if they really wanted. I'm not sure about his species lifespan though, he'd be rather old.
Why is a General commanding a Fleet? THANK YOU! Finally, someone noticed it! Empire kept order in the separation of their armed forces rather neatly. You had generals leading ground assaults and admirals commanding the fleets. Term "General" was used by the filthy rebels in a colloquial way. Their generalship was symbolic and could be interchangeable with "hero" or "commander". As far as I remember, Han Solo never completed any military academy that would open his career to promotion within the officer core. Considering his assignment during the battle for Endor, he was serving more in the capacity of a Captain or Colonel(at most). Certainly not a General. Prequels retroactively explained this "generalship" obsession of the Rebellion. During the Clone Wars Jedi Knights were holding the rank of a General... which was still completely symbolic, as they actively commanded single capital ships, as well as whole fleets AND the ground forces too. It only showed how disorganised the Grand Army of the Republic really was. You'd think the First Order would emulate the Imperial military, instead of the Rebel one. But I guess no one on the writing staff thought about it* Or anyone else who pre-approved the script before the film went into production. At the end of the day, I believe that General Haxx's command over fleet is an effect of nepotism within the First Order itself, where Snoke's inner circle commanders are automatically in charge over every military asset. Order my ass... *By "writing staff" I mean Mr. Johnson.
If the First Order was originally sent to destroy a Resistance base on a planet and lets say that the Dreadnought was knocked out by an ion cannon, like the star destroyer in Empire, then a ground assault would have been the plan b of destroy the base. This would make some sense as the small fleet chasing the Resistance was being led by Snoke. That or general and admiral are now interchangeable. None of this helps the plot holes. If there was enough gas in the tank to make one more jump why wouldn't the plan have always been jump and make an immediate second jump scattering the fleet before the First Order jumped into the second location. This is also the first time a real threat of running out of fuel has been in a Star Wars move. If the Resistance was worried about making constant hit and runs and quickly moving to a new base there should have been a better reserve of fuel. The only explanation of fuel loss is that all of it magically got lost in those plot holes.
@@Warsie I am terribly sorry Sir, but according to the new lore we're operating with, Han Solo was expelled from Cardia Academy, court-martialled and drafted to the 224th Division holding the rank of Corporal. I do, however, highly admire your attention to the original EU - and if we would agree to ignore the new expanded universe (which I would if given a chance), I'd certainly stand corrected Sir. Regarding Fleet Officers assisting Jedi, this is exactly the point I was presenting - Admirals, Commodores or even Captains should be in command of Republic Navy vessels - and it is Jedi who should serve as advisors, not the other way around. To take a step away from the realism, I absolutely understand why Jedi were put in command of everything. It would make for a rather poor film/tv show if whenever space combat took place, we'd listen to a bunch of brass organising tactics over the heads of the monk warriors, degrading them the status of military assets. In either case, thank you for your comment. May the Force be with you.
Maybe the First Order considers their fleet more of an air force than a navy? But then they name ship classes by naval tradition? I dunno, you need to do too much mental gymnastics to make this movie make sense.
It always bothered me how the Dreadnought was left vulnerable by the other Resurgent Class Ships. They literally sat there and watched the Resistance destroy it. No Turbo lasers being fired on the bombers, no additional Tie Fighters launched from them, nothing. They didnt even attack the Resistance fleet they LITERALLY sat there
What's even worse is if poe was told about pinkies plans Finn and Rose would've never left and get that discount pro hacker and got on the big ship the hacker dude would never have been able to tell the first order about the cloaking.
This movie felt like it was written by a 12 year old girl. Only a child would think that losing your entire fleet, losing all your experienced commanders, running away for the entire movie, and losing your most experienced space wizard is a moral victory. The rebels were losing the whole movie and then they end the movie with some stupid vague message of hope. If you can fit your whole army in the back of a pickup truck you are losing. You can't win a war with a couple feminists, a mary sue, and one good pilot.
Did we watch the same movie? 20 people on the falcon is not a victory. And as your "stupid vague message of hope", Empire strikes back has a more hopeful ending of than this. In that movie, Luke gets his hand back, you see them regrouping with the rebellion and you are reminded that they have hope. Here they are flying away from the first order with less than 50 people left.
Nom San stop making nonsense connections to the empire strikes back, these are drastically different movies and the last Jedi Isn't anywhere near the level of esb.
As Kevin Warburton mentioned, such groups have existed for a long time. They actually address this in the previous movie, where Hux basically says in a speech that the Resistance is just an arm of the New Republic...and we know that throughout the movies. The Resistance is in fact a force that belongs to the New Republic, working as a more or less "covert" force trying to keep plausible deniability. The thing is, with the fights escalating as they had, the deniability was no longer that plausible. It's one of the things I actually like about the new trilogy (despite all the things I don't like.).
@@cjgonz2004 "Hux basically says in a speech that the Resistance is just an arm of the New Republic.." But then it makes no sense to call themselves "The Resistance". Resistance is against the authority, the powerful, the status quo. It's just fucking dumb. No need to try and rationalize goofy shit.
Most of this could have been fixed with one line of dialogue: “Should we send everything against the Resistance and destroy them?” “No, Snoke wants the girl alive for some reason. She might be on a ship, or perhaps someone she cares about whom we can use as leverage.” Boom. Now the incompetence of the FO is explained. They are holding back. It still doesn’t explain the incompetence of Leia and Holdo though.
Add a couple scenes establishing New Order spies, edit the script a little, and boom. Holo can't tell Po because she doesn't know who she can or can't trust. As far as she's concerned everybody except Leia is a potential mole.
The incompetence of the First Order is completed canonically explained by it's severe divide - the older post-Imperial officers such as the admiral or whatever of the dreadnought (the angry guy), and newer personnel such as Hux. The old guard are extremely intelligent strategists etc and are the reason a lot of the mistakes the Galactic Empire made were avoided, or at least attempted to be avoided. For example, Old Guard engineers ensured that the TIE/fs Fighters (pretty sure that's what they're called) were shielded. The Old Guard are more careful and conservative, and usually like to play it safe. They're smart and they know what they're doing. If they had full control over the First Order (other than Snoke of course) then the First Order would control the galaxy already. The newer officers are far more naive and confident in themselves and the First Order. They believe fully and religiously in the glory of the First Order and it's power, and basically believe it's unstoppable. This severe divide has pretty bad consequences; as a whole, the First Order IS INCOMPETENT BY DESIGN (from the writers). THEY EVEN SHOW THIS IN THE FILM: Hux and the angry admiral dude of the dreadnought (captain?), a very senior member of the Old Guard, argue about sending the fighters out (I think that's it - I haven't watched it in a while). I find it frustrating how no one seems to know this. But when you think about it, a lot of Star Wars "Fans" barely know what they're talking about. I'm not suggesting you are one of them - there's so much Star Wars canon and lore and information and whatever out there - and there's a heaps of stuff I don't know. I just find it strange how not many people know about this, or payed attention or thought about when they showed us this scene. Check out Generation Tech's video on it. It explains it fully and cites the official sources. I probably didn't explain it very well. Sorry for the long comment. Have a nice day. :)
The correct answer would be: Because then it would look like the writers actually knew ANYTHING about proper military strategy while writing the film. Which is clearly not the case. Or writing characters who can use common sense, which is also not the case. The villains and military leaders from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi are so incompetent, they would make even Dick Dastardly look like a tactical genius.
The Mandator Dreadnought lacked any ventral turrets whatsoever, so Poe could just fly under the vessel and destroy the cannon, Or because it fired at the resistance base, he could go for its bridge, since its shields would still be recharging. Sounds like something, that you could do with just one X-wing, and not the entire fleet.
But it could be repaired, but completely obliterating it cost the first order dearly, billions of credits, hundreds of thousands of personnel, not to mention one of their best admirals, all lost in seconds
@@ntfoperative9432 yeah... After like, a couple months to years. And that's time you don't really have, y'know? You want to kill these guys now, not later.
*Resistance replaces slow, not very maneuverable, and fairly large bomber carrying one person with even slower, bigger, and less maneuverable bomber carrying more people* I mean, what happened to the B-Wing? And if the X-Wing got revamped for TFA, why couldn't I get a new look too?
Bwings are awsome since they actually make sense. the "plane in spaceee" never seems to be a very good idea to start with. And someone is definitely making hell of a profit selling not-up-to-date equipment (with new color scheme and action figures) to both side
The only competent officer in the entire first order who seemed to have even a remote grasp of tactics was the captain on the Dreadnought, Captain Canady, who the wiki says was an old Imperial era holdover. Yet despite that he is surrounded by a younger First Order bridge crew who are pretty much useless. They can't even get their act together and follow his orders. So the only competent character is killed off within the first 10 minutes of the film....... That captain's presence only further succeeded in highlighting how incompetent the rest of First Order really was. And quite frankly. made the rest of them look even worse than they already were. RIP Dreadnought captain, you were the only competent villain I expect to see in the entire trilogy.
At the end of the film there are less than 400 Resistance left, they have no capital ships and no fighters beyond the Falcon and are in search of friendly forces to hide them from the First Order. Man the First Order really dropped the ball on this one, completely crippling your enemy to the point that they pose little threat for awhile is incompetence at its best.
What I thought was probably the most retarded thing about this film is - why did all the resistance capital ships have practically no fuel? None of those capital ships took part in the battle against Starkiller base, and they didn't seem to have been involved in any other conflict before the evacuation. It was heavily implied that the evacuation occurred only a few days after the battle at Starkiller base. The battle at Starkiller base itself only occurred a couple of days tops after the Starkiller base blew up the Resistance planets. So prior to that, the resistance still had a support base. So did no-one think to refuel even one of their capital ships for several months?
Eye of the Storm Funny part about this one is the fact that the Raddus is the same ship class as the Home-1, a ship that can fly 100 years without refueling according to the wiki. Considering thr Raddus probably isnt 100 years old, this scenario makes no sense at all. And even if the ship was built so long ago, I highly doubt nobody ever refueled it during that time.
Lucas is cackling to himself right now, "So you nerds through I ruined Star Wars? Fools! Wait until you see what Disney does to it! You'll be begging to have Jar-Jar back! He was the key to all of this the whole time! MUWAH HA HA HA!!"
Alondro77 I'd rather have jar jar, because at least that can have meme potential like the fan game jar jar's jar jar jar. All rose has is potential motive for a suicide.
That's what I thought...so, the New Republic just let the Empire keep the Inner Rim and Core? Those are the most economically developed planets in the Galaxy. The Colonies and Mid-Rim are better than the Outer Rim, but why would they just let the Empire hold on to the literal center of the galaxy?
The lack of Jar Jar Binks as a secret Sith Lord who was actually competent but playing the fool was the greatest missed opportunity of Revenge of the Sith
ThieflyChap I know man. I remember a time where there was excitement and anticipation for the next movie. But now we are waiting for it to be boycotted. It’s really sad.
I feel as though it isn't. The fans decide what is canon and what isn't. The creators can try to say it's their property all they want, but, ultimately, it's us fans who decide whether we want it or not. We decide what is accepted as canon. That's how art works. It's created by the artists, but it belongs to the people, the fans. So, screw Disney. I'm not gonna have it. If they don't like it, tough. They cant force us to accept a story we don't want. We can just choose not to buy, watch, read, or whatever. That's the power of fandom.
Special thanks to Sesh Monkey for allowing me to use screenshots from his animation:
th-cam.com/video/V5wtB_BQyHA/w-d-xo.html
KingEmperorPenguin well noticed about the DJ plot hole. I hadn't noticed it and I haven't seen another TH-cam video that has spotted it either and I've watched loads.
KingEmperorPenguin You forgot a major plot hole. If one Resistance bomber has a large enough payload to destroy a dreadnought. Why have multiple ones come out. This makes the Resistance split their forces to defend multiple big, slow and vulnerable Bombers. When one would have been easier to defend and had a large enough payload to get the job done! A complete waste of manpower and resources! Love The Video Keep Up The Good Work!!!
The only person who saw through Han Solo's plan was Boba Fett. I do agree that the resistance only won because of plot holes, luck and duex exmachina
wonderful video, I hope to see more like it
knight of darkness I know a way they could have bombed the ship and probably kept their soldiers alive.............use fucking Y-wings!!
Gavin Jones Or Poe could have just shot his ship's ion torpedoes at the bridge since a multi billion credit Dreadnought DOESN'T HAVE SHIELDS!!!
Dreadnought: *Lose only 8 defense turrets*
The entire Dreadnought crew: Guess I'll die.
Even funnier when you think how many cannon have a real warship...
@@burndemon100 yeah and that it big canons are exposed and one shot I assume it all blow up like the ships in tros
It is also strange how a dreadnought only has 8 point defence turrets and no sort other sort of anti-fighter weaponry or turbo lasers (maybe it is only a giant piece siege equipment and not meant to fight space battles, but if that is the case, then why are it’s escort craft far behind the siege ship?)
More strange is om the official databook saying 26 and then only 8 appear...
Guess Mandator 4 kindo forgot that he had more 18...
@@joaop4585 I read that on D&D's voice.
Rose
"You protect the ones you love"
Finn "WTF ya think I was doing"
That was such a stupid move considering she nearly killed BOTH of them, AND in a way where the sacrifice wouldn't have had ANY meaning for the battle or saving the rest of the Resistance, lol. Still hate that moment.
*kisses him*
*explosion and all of their friends dieing in the background*
Saving his soul from dying an angry black man’s death, which is all they wrote his character to be... which is sad. I wanted to like him from the moment they had him break away from the first order, but then he became the movie’s comic relief, having to be educated by the movies more white characters. He then is given a romantic relation whose ethnicity is also a poor, more white (but not white) woman.
The movies where horrific from the start to the finish. Their best use? How not to write a script, or what not to do.
I don’t write comic relief characters. They cheapen the plot by injecting bad comedy.
@@RobertGraphics you can have funny characters but they need serious moments where they can be of use as well.
If you only write them to be comic relief your doing it the wrong way around. Only introduce/write a character if he has an impact or significance for 1. The plot 2. On important characters or 3. The world/worldbuilding. If the character brings nothing interesting or important to the table scrap him.
Best example that comes to mind is Sokka from avatar the last airbender. He starts of mostly as a funny character but even in episode 2 he is willing to risk his life to defend his village. He is the person that always has a plan and in most cases they work. He later even becomes a fighter that is capable of fighting with/aside people that can control the elements. He is important, smart and still has the best jokes, one liners etc.
Finn's role in TLJ was pretty insignificant. I honestly don't know what to do in the last hour. Still, he tries to be a hero without looking back.
Didn't need a military strategist, just someone with an iq above room temperature.
Room temperature must have been cold as hell during the movie's entire production.
Not enough to melt ice.
Temperature in Celsius for sure.
Literally the first thing they’ll teach you about retreating in Star Wars is that you ALWAYS make a second jump so the enemy can’t figure out where you went based on hyperspace vectors
This comment, literally made me laugh. Well done.
Hux: “I am the general!”
Poe: “You are? Cool, I’m actually looking for the admiral.”
Hux: “NANI?”
Or...
Hux: “I am the general”
Poe: “I don’t have time for underlings. Pass me the admiral.”
Poe to the Dreadnought: MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAAA
Hux: "Are you threatening me Ace Pilot?"
Poe: "The generals will decide your fate."
Hux: "I am the general!"
Poe: "Not yet."
Hux: "It's treason, then."
Filthy acts at a reasonable price he wasn’t until between TLJ and ROS
@Filthy acts at a reasonable price Shit that makes sense
Admiral holdo is just angry at poe because he stole her signature move, "can I speak with the manager please? " in the opening battle.
This is great
THANK YOU!!!
Cringe.
So she called corporate
Poe is the only one who ever got to talk to the manager
Imagine if before the Normandy landings, the British, Americans and Canadians rammed their ships and landing craft into eachother to "protect those you love, not destroy those you hate"
lol
Ohhhhh you’re racist and sexist because you said something negative about a made up character that happens to be portrayed by an Asian American actress! But the line was written by a white dude!!!!!Shame...shame...shame
@@David-jk7ot That...doesn't make sense...and I don't know if this post is sarcastic or something
Matthew Ang Yes, I was being sarcastic. I was attempting to show how the media takes a logical, albeit negative comment someone makes about a character and then turns it into a personal attack on the actual person who is playing that character, even though the commenter didn’t mean to that way. More specifically, how the media twisted any negative comment made on Rose’s character into personal hate against Kelly Marie Tran
@@David-jk7ot Yeah, alright. Wasn't sure as well, kinda hard to distinguish sarcastic and not, besides, people nowadays are quite stupid, the majority mostly. Too much misunderstandings and shit...
RIP Admiral Ackbar
You deserved better.
Luke was the real tragedy of this movie. He will forever be a young man who believed in the light, only to grow up into a cynical old man who contemplates killing babies.
Ackbar was the best wingman in night clubs when you were drunk. You could walk up to him and be like "Im digging that girl over there." And he would warn you if it was actually a man or not... "ITS A TRAP!"
Maybe they shouldn't put the bridge of the ship in one of the most exposed positions possible? I guess it's not as bad as Star Destroyers which literally juts the bridge up as the only target.
Also, Mace Windu is clearly alive if Jedi can fly. Maybe Plo Koon too if they can survive those types of explosions but I think it's more difficult to argue for him.
Now just saying, but imagine if Holdo's role in every scene was in fact Ackbar including the hyperspace thing.
Instead he died off-screen wtf is this shit?
Emajenus I didn't like a few things about this movie but I really liked Luke's story I'm pretty sure ihe did a good video discussing your points
"General Weasley"
"Golem Palpatine."
"Pinkie"
Damn this guy has me crying with these names.
SCP Foundation "Princess Poppins"
@@Panda10million That's a good one too.
"Rey Sue"
I literally thought Weasley was his name when he said it
@@Xxgxxaxx somewhere his veela wife is filing for divorce. She's sick of being married to a first order clown
DJ tells the first order to scan for cloaked ships.
1:Why dont they always scan for cloaked ships
2:what is the purpose of cloaks if you can just scan for them
lol
They might scan for the magnetic signature, just like in the Clone Wars Series
Probably energy and staff intensive to scan for cloaked ships, but this would be the time to do that regardless.
Dj11o9er You didn't answer his questions
Terence Fletcher he didn't ASK a question
Edit: o wait. . . he did. Heh. Heh
Its hilarious how Poe is the one who has to 'learn from his actions' while being the only character in the movie who did something right.
He's a man.
Janx14 And I love how Poe is treated like a hothead who screws everything up when Holdo's plan is retarded beyond belief and only works because the First Order are totally inept.
The correctness of Poe's actions doesn't enter into it. He is a soldier and is expected to follow orders. He disobeyed them, resulting in the deaths of many (his ambition basically amounted to murder). He's lucky he wasn't court-martialed.
Sam Frilia So if your commander orders you to do somthing extremely stupid or morally wrong like say, killing/torturing civilians. Your supposed to just go through with it anyway? What if he orders you to commit a to a suicide attack? What if he orders you to kill other soldiers without cause? Blindly following orders regardless of logic or common sense is not what soldiers do.
Sundiata Keita It's absolutely baffling that in a movie series about resisting corrupt authority, (Rebels versus Empire), the lesson Poe learns is blindly trust authority even when you have strong reason not to.
Captain Needa even seemed like a fairly decent guy.
"I shall assume full responsibility for losing them, and apologize to Lord Vader."
He was too good for this world :(
michael dorsey Vader thought that too
"Apology accepted, Captain Needa."
"Why? Why? Why?"
Because Disney doesn't care about Star Wars, they care about money.
Not true complitly. It true that Disney cares only about money. But they also care about Star Wars. Thats reason why people leading Lucasarts before Last Jedi had so many free space to do whatever. People that lead Lucasarts are killing Star wars and Disney cant do much because nobody wants to jump in thit hot potato and try to save it.
The more of something you have the less valueable it gets JUST LIKE STAR WARS FILMS the more we it get the more I hate Star Wars
(I know I spelled a word wrong)
(The original Trilogy is great)
Nah he actually has some points
Star wars definitely got a knive in the back from Disney, but they did some sort of good things. But they are choking star wars to death right now.
Tge intire new trilogy made no sence
But ey!
@@aleksaradojicic8114 No, that Kathleen person is doing it, not Disney, not Lucasarts
He is true did you see the budget to the profits?
“The dress emphasizes her neck and makes her look like a giraffe”. I’m Dead 😂😂
@CountPsiclone hah, cause she was in jurassic park
That's exactly what I though on first sight.
po's x-wing was upgraded with plot armour
Up until it wasn't
TomaHawk PWPT up until it wasn’t necessary.
If you can call any of the last Jedi "plot".
MaRey Sue's offensive prowess was similarly augmented.
Rotj
“Our shields can’t repel blasts of that magnitude”
Tlj
We can’t hit them they are to far😢😢
Resistance: What do we have?
Guy 1: Well we have these Y-Wings that have been used for easily 50+ years now.
Guy 2: If your pilots know how to fly them they're pretty useful.
Resistance: Hey what're those?
Guy 1: Oh these? They're some bomber that takes about 5 people to use. They're basically made of paper and they move *really* slow-
Resistance: *I'LL TAKE TEN.*
Guy 1: there were only two ever produced
Resistance: build more Well pay for everything even if it's as expensive as a Star destroyer
Y wings are fighter bombers not heavy bombers, old ones at that. Even if they did have them there and in working condition, and the Tie Fighters didn't tear them apart they probably couldn't do enough damage to stop a ship of that size before expending their explosives and having to return to base.
The Y-wing carries 20 proton bombs.
The MG-100 starfortress carries 1048 proton bombs.
There's your answer.
For good firepower, simply make a droid pilot a y wing kamikaze plane if everyone’s gonna die anyways in that slow at bomber
You have to have both a droid that can be programmed for such a task and disposable Y wings, I know they had drone bombs in one of the games based off the Tie Fighter models. The slow bomber was likely supposed to be similar to a B-52 or Short Sterlings. They would get torn apart if not properly supported. They weren't in TLJ, not only did the Tie Fighters outnumber the Resistance fighters, these were advanced Tie's that probably don't go down in one shot. Tie Fighter was based on the Japanese Zero.
You missed the biggest military kerfuffle the first order committed:
"Our ultra-death laser is charged, commander! Which should we shoot at - mostly abandoned, landlocked rebel base, or the very full-of-rebels, very likely-to-escape rebel ships?"
"Why, the Choice is Obvious, Captain! Fire at Will!"
SecondPsycho To be fair the choice was obvious. That captain deserved force choking.
The guy Named Will: *gulps*
@@biggsdarklighter0473 gone, reduced to atoms
Ikr? Fricken shoot the ships and it cuts off their escape
As Caesar said during the conquest of Gaul, “we came, we saw, we subverted expectations “. Veni, Vidi, Riani
He actualy said it after he conqered pontus but ok
Bravissima!
@G Ren no one has stated that Rian uttered the words himself. That became a meme because defenders of the film were claiming we only disliked the film because we didn't like the choices made regarding Rey's lineage, Smoke's fate, and Luke's treatment. Granted those choices were awful, but we have other gripes that don't just amount to undermining our fanfictions and the "subverting expectations" mantra is just an inside joke.
@@gottesurteil3201 bro it's a joke
@You tuber funny joke
"Some arms dealers must be making a killing, scamming the FO and the Resistance with old tech with new paints jobs" Imagine the arms dealer that sold the Resistance those bombers? He definitely laughed all the way to Canto Bight.
I thought that parting shot were the best lines in the entire video.
My personal theory is that the weapons maker of those was a FO sympathizer.
@@jacquelineking5783 The FO would have more money anyway, so a good move to support the one that'll be more profitable
Arms dealers always make a killing selling slightly upgraded equipment to whoever will pay for it during wars. That's probably the most realistic part of the whole movie.
@elmateo77 Probably true, but the content creator (sorry, just stumbled on this video), is perhaps unaware that this kind of thing does actually happen. One example that jumps to mind is the USAF C-130 which is on its, what, "J" version last I knew. The plane has been around since the sixties and simply updated with new tech because it is good at what it does. Why go with some new "toy" when the old one works fine, as long as you keep it current with tech upgrades… like the C-130J. Plus, this means you don't need a bunch of retraining for techs fixing and crew flying the planes, and you have a lot of parts that are interchangeable between models. Militarily it makes a lot of sense.
Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with the CC on his analysis of the film. So. Much. Waste. And incompetence… displayed on screen and in the writer's room.
@Haku infinite Leia had 0 power because her political enemies published that she was daughter of Dart Veider. Thats reason why they dont have great support from Galaxy.
And First Order didnt had old equipment. Its equipment based on old Imperial tech but modernised.
EU had shall we said companies that were loyal or affiliated with a government.
@Haku infinite What the hell are you talking about? Luke was the only one at Vader's Pyre. They never told everyone he saved the galaxy. Vader had a reputation of genocide and pain. It's obvious his children wouldn't just go around saying they're related to him. Hell most people didn't even know Vader was Anakin.
@@jamiewalsh620 "now I'm going to tell you facts, these are confirmed facts, so please accept the lore"- Disney when destroying the star wars timeline
"But the Resistance are not happy with the First Order getting all the incompetent ones and also decide to be stupid."
A perfect summary of the entire Sequel Trilogy thus far.
Hw does he have multiple million view vids but less then 50k subs???
@@kingkfc1352maybe most of the views were sequel fans.
Why is everyone incompetent?
A: *They were written by people who are actually incompetent*
Thanks Kathleen.
no Rian Johnson wrote this so.......................................ya they were written by incompetent writers
scortch2k; she hired the writers, handpicked them even.
10,000,000 thumbs up for this comment.
George Lucas Votes "No Confidence" in Kathleen Kennedy ability to be in Charge of STAR WARS!
I know "George Lucas" was paid a LOT of $$$$$$$ for the rights of SW, but Man, Disney Should had Got him to write & Produce VII, VII & IX.
@@LadieFromHell He did actually give them his ideas for the sequels, but they threw them in his face and laughed at him.
Why can’t they just make a good one? Don’t they want money is there no one competent enough to make a boba fett movie
You actually raise a good point about Vice Admiral Pinky. Why wasn't she on the main bridge with the other officers?
So, I looked into her background. Apparently, Admiral Pinky is an example of a political promotion. She has no education in military tactics or organization whatsoever. She was in the Empire's program for young politicians, became friends with Leia Organa. She helped out Princess Leia a couple of times during the Rebellion.
Then, she joins the Resistance military with her friend and is immediately promoted to "Vice Admiral." She is also placed in charge of a corvette (a small military vessel) named the Ninka. This explains a ton of things. Why would a Vice Admiral be only given command of a small vessel? Because she has no experience with command. It also explains why she was still alive when the High Command structure were all killed. She was on her small little ship, out of the way. But, because she was an Admiral, she was the highest ranking officer there. Now, a reasonable person would say "okay, who are my best commanders? Let me talk to them." But, of course, she's too smart for that.
If you compare her actions to Princess Leia's actions in Star Wars, you can see the problem. Princess Leia listened to her military leaders and let them do the actual planning rather than doing it herself. Admiral Pinky tells her senior military adviser to shut up and nearly destroys the fleet because of it.
Another thing connected to this. If Pinky had any clue what she was doing, she could have saved the Raddus. BECAUSE THE NINKA HAS NUKES. Why have nukes never been used, when the mere presence of the Ninka and a few other things like some power systems, definitely show that they are a thing? And the lasers. THE LASERS. They've got to not be lasers to function the way they've been shown constantly. Not just the dropping, but also the fact that they can do anything in those tiny blasts. About the only way the lasers might do any damage is if they're constantly concentrated on a point to melt the metal.and if the shots are plasma, which is often used to explain the nature of them, then they'd still need to be concentrated on a point for a little while. Yes, the plasma is hotter, but it's surrounded by space. I doubt one or two shots as seen in many of these scifi universes would be able to transfer all their heat to the metal, especially when surrounded by a near complete vacuum. The heat's going to try and equally disperse, and what few atoms are in space are really cold, so the energy would disperse onto those, or radiate away. I'm probably missing something, but I want to know how the weapons actually work to work as they do. Is it superheated slugs? If so, why don't they lose all their heat before impact? Where's the ammunition stores? Wouldn't be just as effective to fire cold slugs, considering their heat's going to disappear?
On a real warship, the captain, fleet commander, and first officer are *_never_* in the same place during combat. This is to prevent the ship/fleet from being decapitated by one shot.
@@handlesarecringe957 While that is correct, they are almost always on the same ship. For example, the captain would be on the bridge, the admiral would be in the CIC, and the XO would be in damage control.
But, they would all be on the same ship. Not on different ships.
In Nam, Admiral Pinky would be 1st Lt. Getsfraggedalot.
This is a perfect example of “equal outcome” for wahhhhmen. The bitch was so irritating and ruined the film. As well as rose...
This is what happens when you focus on making things look cool or funny but forget about sense.
Just like the Transformers movies by Michael Bay, mate. The plot of those films are total crap, but hey, they have nice CGI and special effects.
Except the Transformers movies, especially the first one, doesn't give you headache from all the nonsense you get shoved into your mouth.
AND selling toys
Henry 2 ITS A MOVIE ABOUT SPACE MAGIC AND A FROG IS A GHOST THAT CAN SHOOT LIGHTNING FROM THE SKY
well BirdMemes is correct.
the original trilogy was careful not to make it a superhero movie that's why you can't do everything with the force. this truly is now space magic.
force projection bullshit was the worst of all, we now have luke being split in two entities which communicate faster than light. this is the definition of pulling things out of your ass. next time rey-sue can just teleport herself anywhere in the universe cause there are not rules.
the worst thing is that this changed the rules forever, now you can do whatever you want and that means space magic.
This new triology just feels like a badly-written fanfiction.
@@RTDelete touché
Got it in one. That’s also why the ships are either nonsensical (the slow terrible bombers), or just old ships with different paint jobs. Fanfics aren’t known for their creativity or original ideas.
Of course it is
because it is.
Oh it’s no fan fiction. Does it sound *anything* like what a fan would create?
This guy literally put more time and effort, into the movie then Ryan Johnson did.
Agent J nigga WHAT DA FUCK ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT LOLLOL
I find that offensive! How dare you even suggest that Johnson put ANY effort at all.
Agent J you were dropped as a child
I'm not even a minute into the video and I agree with you.
@Agent J Ok Mr. J, time to take your meds
"after an awful speech, where she pontificates on the abstract notion of hope, and provides none..."
you earned a sub friend
Dan Brown
If Darth Vader was in charge, Hux would have been forced choked while still an Ensign.
"I find your lack of competence disturbing."
Naahh, to qualify for force choking, you have to be in command of a Star Destroyer at the very least.
I figure Vader would just have ordered him to join his flight of Tie Fighters on a couple of occasions.
Given the fact that competent Tie Fighter pilots don't last that long, an incompetent one would be killed off on his first mission.
"Lieutenant".
Ensign is a naval rank. Hux is a general so he would be subject to army ranks.
mill 27 Not to mention his promotion was apparently a political promotion and a legacy.
He would have to even be in the navy to be an ensign
A General is of the army, what the hell is this man even doing on a bridge?!
They got one thing right when po said he wasn't in charge, security get this idiot off yhe command deck.
Seriously did the FO just say "You know what, potato potato" ?
"Demote poe from commander to captain"... Last I checked, captain outrank commander.
In the US Navy, yes. Or in Star Trek, LOL
In Star Wars, as best I can tell, they mix the ranks, and Commander is like a Major, or maaaybe Lt. Colonel. It seems what we would know as a real-life or Star Trek Navy Captain would be more like an Admiral in Star Wars. Captains are simply in charge of a ship (or maybe a small squadron of fighters).
Meh. Space Fantasy rank structure, I guess.
Commander outranks captain in Star Wars and since Poe was in the navy, he was a wing commander which meant he commanded a wing I can't remember how many squadrons were in a wing but somehow he went from that to squadron leader which I guess is captain which is kinda like, they demoted him twice but whatevs, I just want to know who took his place
@@cidballcidball8030 if anyone did I think they were either incinerated in the hangar, or tossed out the bridge.
no in star wars commander is higher than captain in star wars. (etc captain rex promoted to commander rex)
Captain, leads an air group
Commander, leads a wing
Lieutenant commander, leads a squadron (a.k.a squadron leader)
So yes,
his demotion is backwards.
When Poe called the bombers, A-wings, and X-wings, there were no less than SIX who out-ranked him:
General Organa (Raddus)
Admiral Ackbar (Raddus)
General Ematt
Vice Admiral Holdo (Ninka)
Vice Admiral Jotis (Vigil)
Vice Admiral Resdox (Anodyne)
So none of the senior officers call off the attack. Holdo was in fact commanding The Ninka, yet she let both squadrons of bombers, 4 A-wings, and 8 X-wings leave her hangar! Under what circumstances would Poe be allowed to put his arms on Vice Admiral during a disagreement? In what organized unit would a General slap a ranking officer?
Ok, ok..I'm a professional general, some enemy is mocking me over the radio, do I? A) open fire? Or B) continue chatting? "Boring conversation anyway......Luke we're going to have company."
I think they did it on purpose to "subvert expectations"... audience expected a good movie with scary villains and smart heroes so they made a pathetic parody.
What?
@@Mic_Glow subverting expectations: fans wanted an actual star wars movie, got a pile of dog shit instead. yay, expectations subverted !
The plan didn't fail because of DJ, it failed because a First Order droid was smart enough to spot BB-8 bouncing off of things while hiding under a trash can. They got caught, then DJ bought his freedom by selling out the Resistance escape plan....that he somehow knew, even though Poe, Finn, and Rose didn't.
The plan might have worked if it wasn't for the comic relief bit of BB-8.
That was my thought- why the hell didn't they leave the stupid ball on their ship instead of giving it a paper-thin disguise?
From the dialogue, the plan wasn't to return to their ship but steal an escape pod and try to return to the Resistance. Thus, they "couldn't just leave him behind"-cliche. Admittedly, some writer must have seen the weakness in this plot point and retconned the dialogue to explain why they didn't just leave BB-8 on their "appropriated" ship (you know, since the Resistance is so noble that they don't steal ships).
Dj overheard that the resistance were fleeing in escape craft.
By that point Poe did know the plan and talked about it over the comm just before they got caught.
KnightRaymund they are still trying to sell the moronic idea that the First Order that has essentially conquered the entire galaxy would not know to scan for small ships fleeing the literal last resistance ship as it runs out of fuel which the first order was aware of. Anyone willing to buy that is a worlkd class dumb shit.
The explanation (or excuse) I heard for why Holdo didn't tell Poe about her plan was that she didn't trust him. Well, if she trusted Poe so little that she wouldn't even tell him her plan to save the Resistance, why would she even keep him around? If he's _that_ untrustworthy and they know he has a proclivity to do stupid things without thinking them through, why not just stick him in the brig to keep him from causing more damage?
Let's think about this. Since Holdo didn't tell Poe about the plan, he decided to take matters into his own hands and send Finn and Rose off on some fool's errand to find some hacker who none of them have ever heard of and have no idea what he looks like. By some stroke of dumb luck, they manage to find _a_ hacker, even though he wasn't the one they were looking for, and he ends up betraying the Resistance, and that's how the First Order finds out about the escaping transport ships and starts shooting them.
Do you get it? It was Holdo keeping Poe out of the loop that caused the destruction of the Resistance. Because of her, _hundreds of people died, and the First Order nearly killed off their final obstacle to enslaving the entire galaxy._ How did somebody that incompetent become a Vice Admiral?
Dr Shaym Rip Admiral Akbar...
Is it weird that I read that in your voice???
I can do one better. She didn't trust Poe even though the prior day he blew up the StarKiller Base. SHE didn't trust the biggest hero the resistance had because....? And had Poe left the dreadnaught alone then there would have been no chase just three orbital cannon'd ships.
Holda is either an idiot or unimaginably incompetent.
*@ NaraShikamaru21* That's "diversity" in action for you...
Holdo also ignores the fact that the bombers sacrifice was not in vain as the dreadnot that was destroyed would have completely destroyed the resistance ships during the slowest chace in all of history as those orbital artilary weapons would have punched right through their shields. If it werent for pos attack and the bomber squadrons sacricice they would have lost everyone
But you gotta ignore all that because he's a white male and you need to push this wamen agenda
I have been very bothered by the mistreatment of Poe. It becomes a MAIN PLOT POINT that all the First Order's cannons are a little too weak to destroy the Resistance ship---for 10 hours or whatever---and NOBODY thanks Poe for saving all their lives? If the Dreadnought had been there for the 'chase' the whole resistance would have died right then. This video at least pointed out that they would have died in the bunker if the Dreadnought was still around, but hiding in a bunker might not have been the plan in the first place if the Dreadnought was still around. There's no excuse for slapping Poe across the face, demoting him, and never acknowledging that his decision to disobey orders saved everyone's lives.
David Miller he actually followed orders. He was just the only pilot good enough to survive the risky attack
@@MrMitchbow There actually were other star-fighter Survivors, Kylo ren killed them all with a single shot to the Hanger bay which was loaded with Ammo and fuel.
He man, she "General" wohman. That simple. He toxic, he can take down WHOLE FIRST ORDER BY HIMSELF and he still be dirt because she WOMAN in baking dress, that new femdisney star wars.
As it looked in the film, the Fleet would have been long gone had they not waited for Poe - and had the Dreadnaught jumped through to chase them, they'd have had another chance to bomb it - perhaps with it more separated from its fleet.
But he is disregarded her orders and he deliberately chose do to the opposite of her orders. He is a deserter and he got a crap ton of people killed with that (as portrayed in the film, i dont know why they followed his orders and the ones from the general). If you desert, even if it was good for the outcome of the battle, you could get killed for that in most armies. I dont expect them to kill one of the main characters, but it is really weird, that he does not get at least put out of order.
"The First order does not lack fuel, but they do lack imagination."
Best comment from the video.
and intelligence
"Lack" is a very generous term...
"Are devoid of" would be more appropriate.
Yet somehow they take over the galaxy in the span of 5 minutes between movies.
THE FUCK?
Goraka91 TBH Kylo ren as supreme leader is like Anakin from revenge of the sith taking over paplys throne.
Guy 1: Hey guys I have an idea for a good character!
Group: Whoa lets hear it!
Guy 1: Ok here it is: she's like a storm trooper but a leader storm trooper.
Group: Ok and?
Guy 1: She's really tough, smart, and able to do what is required to win.
Group: Ok let's kill her off for no reason
Guy 1: Ok........ wait wat
The only female character we were interested in is the one they did nothing with.
@@3AHoles 100$ says she makes some dumbass resurgence in the next movie, it's hollywood afterall
@@JaysenKov Jar Jar just confirmed she's dead.
True Story!
3 A-Holes Exactly. I wanted to see her do more, I wanted to know more about her, but that all went down the shitter when they decided to just have her be useless in the Force Awakens.
random thought, when Rose saved Finn from himself, her stupid line about 'protecting those you love' and stuff should have been 'this rebellion has enough dead heroes.' It conveys more or less the same sentiment, but in a far better manner and actually makes sense.
But that makes her look competent, something that through the the movie only two or 3 people get to be
Went from not caring for a character to wishing they died in a single sentence.
Also, she met Finn less than 24 hours before that scene...so talk about clingy.
Halo CE reference?
rose delusionally sacrificed the rebellion to sexually assault finn if luke did not battle meditate his consciousness across space the rebellion would have died right there
“You don’t win wars by destroying your enemies”
HAHAHAHAHA
So what do we just let the first order stomp the resistance then? Ok sure.
budemawa She must be unaware of how to rebellion won.
She must be unaware of how anyone in history won a war.
That was a serious face palm worthy moment for me. 🤦♂️
I had thought Rose was an okay-ish character up until then (the resistance are volunteers and she tasers them for trying to leave, but I get it; they need everyone) Then she said that, and i thought of two things - Kenobi's "point of view" line (despite that being a cop out when he said it), and that five year olds know when playing games to knock down the baddies' figures and buildings. So Rose was, to the best of her knowledge, dooming all of her friends with less understanding than a five year old.
@Haku infinite to be honest, I watched it at the cinema and couldn't stand to waste time by rewatching it, so I'll have to take your word for it. So where she's not being a psychopathic militant monster (rendering her later bizarre statement to Finn even more incomprehensible), there were a few bits of dialogue that she had on the pointless casino romp that didn't enrage me by their very nature. I'll put it that way.
It felt like there was an entire subplot cut from this movie. The Resistance is being tracked through hyperspace, which shouldn't be possible. I assumed that this was supposed to hint that there was a traitor among the Resistance who was either sending signals to the First Order or had installed some kind of tracking device on the ship. The movie even establishes a way for this to be done, with the tracking device on Leia's wrist which Rey can apparently locate from anywhere in the universe. Having a traitor on board would also give Holdo an actual reason to withhold details about her plan until the last minute, to prevent possible sabotage by a First Order agent. Instead, like so much else it's just never explained or dwelt upon, they have a hyperspace tracker because otherwise there's no plot. All setup, no payoff.
I actually intuitively assumed this the first time around as well; applying the principles of Occam's razor, the most logical explanation to both the hyperspace tracking & Holdo's reluctance to share her plan must have been that there was a traitor onboard.
Alas, the writers really bummed this...
I wouldn't say that was hypersapce tracking, I'd call it more of trajectory plotting. It has been established in lore (Refer to Episode 5, Rebels, and a few Clone Wars Episodes) that most hyperspace travel occurs over very straight courses, which scientifically makes sense because G forces are a thing if you make a turn G Forces will be amplified by speed. That would mean even the slightest course change at light speed will put stresses on the air frame that would be exponentially larger than going in a straight line and making multiple jumps, adjusting angle between jumps. There is a reason the Imperial Officer shouts something to the effect of "Get me a list of every spaceport on their last know trajectory." They know that they will likely keep going in a straight line because it would be extremely dangerous to attempt drastic maneuvering, and even then they know what the realistic maneuvers would be for a given craft and factor that into their calculations. Thus they aren't tracking, but predicting.
+RocketSurgeon,
Actually, Rose does not know, where the tracker is. That's exactly why she need ex-FO Finn.
you are so right! That would've been a nice replacement for the space casino subplot
CoC - I thought that the Rey tracker had something to do with it as well. Glad I wasn't the only one.
based on her actions, I actually thought that The Pinky was a traitor throughout the most of the movie, until the part where she died. When she was left alone i thought she would give up the ship to the New Order :))
That moment when a random dude on TH-cam has a better idea then Rian Johnson...
I thought the same, no joke! It would have been more interesting!
Yes, that's exactly what I thought. I didn't count on the power of SJW and feminism on the movie.
but instead we got “*death star begone*”.
Tohdom That twist would have been brilliant, but instead I am left increasingly disappointed with the movie
Unfortunately for me, I can tell who is a good guy and a bad guy based on how they look in television and movies. A black male who enunciates his every word with a slight African accent, for example, is incapable of being anything except for a good guy (unless there is a more sympathetic female, homosexual or minority protagonist that he's behaving as the foil for).
"They were conserving resources which makes sense"
No it doesn't actually. This is the last shred of resistance to the First Order left. This would be the perfect time to unload all your assets in one overwhelming attack that crushes the Resistance. The Star Destroyers should have immediately attacked the fleet rather than the base, which would have cut off the base from escaping. THEN you can bombard the base at your leisure and ensure they do not escape.
Admiral Piett, you are greatly missed.
These clowns- both sides- make Adm. Ozzel look like a military genius.
I know Grand Admiral Thrawn normally doesn't kill subordinates for failure but I doubt he would spare Hux.
The Imperials were so formidable. Vader would have turned the windpipes of every First Order officer into drink straws at this point.
Something tells me Grand Moff Tarkin would've have every First Order officer, trooper and everyone to be executed.
Red hair, old robes and pass-down weaponry. It must be a Weasley :P
he literally plays bill weasley😂😂
It actually does hurt that a fictional war movie can’t seem to follow military doctrine for the sake of drama. Rogue One actually did look like a war movie with clever tactics, strategy, and risks. Both sides looked very capable but the empire always had the upper hand. I would have hired it’s director for this movie. I really hope they can learn from this, and make the next Star Wars better than this one.
In fact, Rogue One was supposed to be even more like a war movie but Disney didn't approve.
DarkDragonSonK Solo starts off like Imperial Space Marines and ends way too fucking soon to have this pretty boy go on his own adventure.
@@KommissarBanx that movie had so much potential if they used the books about Han Solo's backstory.
You forgot to mention how apparently all those AT-ATs just stared at Finn and Rose talking instead of killing them. Just more incompetence.
PhobosDynami I don't think Ig I was in one of them I would care about two soldiers with no way to hurt me running away when I have speeder I need to shoot at
All the speeders were on the way back to the base by then, maybe back inside even. They had nothing else to shoot at. Besides we know they can hit small targets like that. They did it in Empire.
They were too busy laughing at how one risistance just saved their big cannon from being destroyed
I'm 47yo and grew up immersed in Star Wars since A New Hope. I've also been extensively trained in military strategies and tactics ranging from NATO based, Warsaw Pact, NSW, and various other types of combat/warfare. Part of my training was a vast and in depth study of historical military leaders, their strategies/tactics, and their various wins/losses.
Everything everyone does in this movie, from a military(and even non military) standpoint is, to use common military vernacular, a clusterf**k. Period. There are moments when, yes, characters behave as a person would under desperation, but almost every other action or reaction goes against human nature as we know. They are human, after all. Suspending disbelief to accommodate for such issues as the Force still doesn't affect how each character acts and reacts in a non-typical manner for humans as we understand human nature.
Being a great and long time fan of Star Wars, I would have gladly worked as the film's military advisor free of charge in hopes to bring the best film possible to fans such as myself. As it stands, this film is a farce. Big budget production with a B movie script and screenplay.
B movie level? You're more generous than I've been. I get subverting expectations, but it felt like it pissed over people's ability to form rational thoughts.
bro in empire strikes back the empire just let the rebels leave when they would fuck them up
@@skoulikiagamwtanekrasas not really they even pursue the rebels.
Remember the dogfights with the imperial fighter and the Millenium Falcon ? That's just imperials pursuing fleeing rebels.
@@cpp3221 yeah but still the empire had so many chances to kill the rebellion
If I may ask what where you thoughts on prequels tactics
I think the point of her dress was a homage to the look of Mon Mothma.
Except that Mon Mothma was an actual politician, a senator actually not a military officer
Mon Mothma actually looks like a senator with the same vibe as a Roman senator donning toga. There is elegance, there is class, and there is prestige.
Holdo's dress might look better on other aliens.
Mon Mothma was Chancellor of the Republic, and I thought she was killed in 7?
"Why didn't Pinky immediately order the fleet to scatter?"
What, you mean like they did in Empire Strikes Back? Oh, what good would that do? I mean, all that happened after Empire Strikes back was most of the rebels escaping so they could regroup later and fight back at a better time of their choosing, which allowed them to blow up the second Death Star.
Oh, wait, I think I see where you're going with that.
cheezemonkeyeater you had me there for a second
movies like this make the next generation stupid and lead them to learn false strategies, laws of universe and having a commonsense!
@@Sonofsun. but they're not going to win with strategy, tactics, or superior firepower. It's only through ♥Love♥ that they can win.
@@Stevarooni love hasn't worked so far, so, why not pull a Stellaris and Slaughter your enemies, enslave different species, also turning them into your own Lifestock, and make a gigantic Galaxy-wide empire?
@@lianaeliado You get so much food from having livestock pops. I just started doing that recently with my criminal megacorp... McEmpire.
So I watched a TED talk a few days ago given by a lady who was born into a cult in New Zealand. She talked about the various tactics the authority figures in her cult used to attempt to control her and others, and how it eventually failed to stop her friend, some of her siblings, and eventually her entire family, including her, from leaving the cult.
These tactics include:
-public humiliation
-physical abuse
-solidarity between the authority figures (since if they could be wrong, then the cult itself might be fallible).
Anyone notice how Leia and Pinky handle Poe in this film? Public humiliation, physical abuse (furthering the himiliation), Leia supporting Pinky's authority without knowledge of what her plan is...
Oh, and how do people wind up responding to this? They run away.
The Resistance's leadership uses cult tactics. They're not the good guys.
Rose tasered Finn as well when he was trying to leave to help Rey. Also, secrecy of information by authority figures.
Lol I suppose that might be the most realistic aspect of this movie if you think about it. There are no good guys in war, though one side might have a perceived moral advantage.
I feel like Ruin Johnson used these tactics on the fanbase. *IT WAS NOT EFFECTIVE*
All the newest Disney fake Star Wars movies were written by Feminist SJW Scum. This explains the Resistance's leadership completely, as well as the utter failure of these movies.
This IS true, but, The First order are almost literally nazis sooooo I geuss it's a lose-lose situation?
The bombs falling in the artificial gravity would make the “fall” towards the dreadnought, but they are all at a different height and that means they leave the gravity at different speeds which would just make them slam into each other in space
You know what's more nonsensical about those bombers? If you look at the wiki page for them, they have a hyperdrive... that means if they had someone who could calculate to high accuracy, then the ENTIRE beginning dogfight didn't need to happen.
And then I thought more into it, and wondered... WHY the hell do these bombers have a hyperdrive?
@@ab14967 It comes back to the problem of why they didn't a Y-Wing or a B-Wing. Really you don't even have take out the entire dreadnought or bother with useless point defense cannons. What they could have done was while Poe was stalling Hux with the negotiations, Have some Y-Wings and X-Wings destroy the orbital bombardment cannons and then circle to attack the ship's bridge form behind aiming at the neck. Boom the Dreadnought is dead weight.
Magnets
@@SineN0mine3 Still that raises the questions why bombs? Why not a proton torpedo or a some other tired and tested technology that is still proven to work and wouldn't make the mission a suicide run as a bonues?
Chaster Mief, you mind telling me what you’re doing in this YT comment section?
The incompetence of this movie is mind boggling.
Old tech, new paint jobs,
sounds like EA.
The Sith has nothing on EA. EA would sell them fighters with missing engine parts and tell them that those parts can be bought as micro transactions.
Or most sports games.
This isn't EA. I don't see lootboxes filled with Pride and Accomplishment™.
*Eheem* Bethesda...
Maybe, but our military strategist here must not be familiar with air power. Even most regular military aircraft are quite old designs, fighters included. However, that's the airframe design, not the current specification. Aircraft are constantly updated whether it be mechanical components, engines, weapons, radar, and most glaringly their avionics and human interface. Look at a 1st gen F16 or MiG 29 VS the current versions of those. Spec sheets or just cockpit photos will make it obvious. Similar things happen with ground systems too. So outer appearance don't always follow technology, especially when it comes to complex machinery and aero-space hardware in particularly.
That said, it's odd that the First Order is so huge and self-contained that it makes no sense that they'd be buying stuff from mere arms dealers. Even that supership alone has all the infrastructure for making literally everything for all forces, including star destroyers. The arms dealer would be good for nothing but scrap unless they were just buying stuff to use on spy and other special ops missions... which they should still have in their own stockpile (like old and captured ships/weapons).
Y-Wings and B-Wings fired their payloads horizontally, meaning they could engage capital ships from a distance. Literally the only reason these fat useless bombers exist in TLJ is because they really wanted sci-fi B-17s.
and because they realized that technology progresses over time. by the time of TLJ y-wings were 60 years old. these new bombers carry around 60 times the payload of a normal y-wing
charlie steele That's a strict regression in terms of tech. Manuverability is preferable against raw payload if it comes at the cost of slow, large size, with seemingly no sheilds. Ffs, one out of control TIE caused a chain reaction that took out like 3, because of how slow and lumbering they are. I'm well aware that the Y-Wing dates back to the Old Republic, but that's only reinforcing my point. It'd be like fighting the next war with flintlocks.
I mean, have fun squaring that circle, but it's really painfully obvious Ryan Johnson wanted a #dramatic scene than one that made sense and was good because of good coreography, or strong charactarization, or compelling plot.
but the thing is the resistance cant get y-wings because no one manufactures them anymore. they are obsolete. the fact that one of them can destroy a first order dreadnaught, a ship 8km long, proves the point that they are not actually that slow and that they are really good bombers. plus since one is around 60 times the payload of a y wing it is far less crew necessary.
charlie steele stop trying to justify it. Rian Johnson chose style over sense, he even made his crew watch movies of B17s because he had a stylistic hard on for putting them in the movie. But he couldnt give the scene equal tension because it didnt make sense. Watch any WWII bomber movie, like the "Memphis Belle," and try to say he actually captured the tension and triumph. He didnt.
By the way, if the Resistance is so "cash strapped," as you said in another post, how did they acquire these new bomber craft that we've never seen before? Wouldnt "cash strapped" imply older, recycled tech, not these fancy wonder-bombers that can destroy a dreadnought with a single pass? As you've stated repeatedly to try and prove theyre actually not slow - the dreadnought is 8KM long. Which is nothing in space battles, by the way, you do realize space is REALLY big? Even 100kph dooms a craft to be traveling for hours to reach anything.
So a) yes, theyre very slow. B) No, theyre not "really good bombers." When you lose three to one crashing TIE fighter, and all of your bombers die in a single run, then no, that's not a "good bomber." You seem to be under this naive assumption that payload is all that matters. It's not.
im not saying that they are the best bombers. the fact that one tie fighter took out three shows that they are not the best tech as they don't have shielding and other defensive matters which proves that the resistance doesn't have the money to get these features. also the resistance doesn't get older bombers because they aren't in circulation anymore. no one goes im going to make 60 year old falling apart y-wings and make a profit off of it.
My question is: who paid for Star killer base? Do you know how much money, time and resources it would take in order to convert an entire planet into a death star!?
A better question is why bother? Why not simply install mass drivers on all the star destroyers and bombard a planet from deep space with rocks, smashing it into the stone age. Equally effective and infinitely cheaper.
chean1815 hell, they could and did do that during the empire, just with turbolasers, base delta zero has been around for Quite a while
@@chean1815 The even bigger question is how Starkiller is canonically listed as being half the size of Pluto in diameter and it supports native life, an atmosphere, has earth-like gravity, and is ice planet despite being the first planet in a system that has multiple stars and then we can get into all of the physics problems of draining a sun in minuites and turning the energy into a beam that can travel halfway across the galaxy in seconds and can be seen in the sky of a systems in entirely different region from the galaxy and somehow the beam splits perfectly enough to destroy every single planet in the system.
@@emberfist8347 The act of draining a sun to use as fuel is more dangerous than the weapon itself, thing is, if they have the technology to drain the sun, that would require a truly massive scale gravitational effect, based on how it looked, I'd say it was a black hole, only they would be strong enough to do that, having a black hole in their planet would not only destroy the planet, but even if they could find a way to shield themselves from it, why not just use the gravity well to destroy the planets?
So many problems with starkiller base and super weapons in general.
@@cadkls Well only the stupid ones have problems.
With that English accent he sounds like you should be one of those commanding imperial officers
In which case, the Rebels are doomed.
Yeah. They would be STEAMROLLED!
jonathan lavezzi if that's the case, can we promote him to Grand Admiral so someone with competence is in charge, like Thrawn.
The death of Ackbar and it barely even being acknowledged really pissed me off. In Star Wars lore he was a military genius and one of the most decorated war hero's in history. While Luke and Leia were certainly a core part of rebels winning it was Ackbar who first organized the rebel fleets of converted civilian ships and started scoring victories against the empire before Luke was even recruited. Leia was the one who brought him out of retirement after she told him of her concerns about the first order because she needed an experienced admiral to command the fleets.
Yep, it was a pretty disrespectful way to conclude the characters story.
Would still like to see a Ackbar (in his prime) vs Thrawn encounter - assuming they don't do anything stupid with Thrawn in the final episodes of Rebels......Grand Admiral for the win obvs ;)
Apparently, actor Tim Rose had died early in filming though?
That was thee actor for Leia's character. Admiral Ackbar's actor isn't dead
Roberto Perez Sorry to break it to you but the character who played Ackbar also died
Cypren and Chris sonofPear Sorry to burst your bubble but Admiral Ackbars actor is still alive and well: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_D._Rose
You probably meant the wrong Tim Rose who died in 2002: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Rose
The hyperspace tracking device deserved more time talking about how much it would change star wars battles. Up to TLJ if you start to lose a battle you could begin to retreat and jump to hyperspace as an end of a battle. So if you had an even engagement that turned against you or were in an engagement that heavily favored your opponent, your retreat was an easy option which would help to conserve manpower and ships. Now that retreat is no longer an option for one side in the war. Now there is basically no running away from a losing battle against the first order as they can just follow you and keep destroying you and your ships, splitting their fleet if you split yours to go in different directions, while any engagement the first order begins to lose they can just cut their losses and hyperspace away and save their remaining forces. Any engagement that the first order wins will now be a near complete and total disaster for the resistance. That is a game changer that would, if the sides were equal in military strength, almost certainly end in the side with that tech achieving victory. In a setting where the already far more powerful side gains that advantage I can not see any form of military victory being possible for the underdog.
The lightspeed ram tactic Holdo pulls basically changes every fight you have ever seen on screen or ever will in star wars. You do NOT weaponize your FTL method unless you want a war setting where all the weapons end up being relativistic kinetic kill vehicles. Something the size and weight of an X-Wing traveling at 99% of lightspeed has the kinetic energy equivalent of 750000+ Megatons or equal to 15000+ of the largest bomb mankind has so far set off, the 50 Megaton Czar Bomba. Every X-Wing in Star Wars has a hyperdrive. One or maybe 2 X-Wing sized, droid flown and targeted hyperspace vehicles just going 99% of lightspeed could have obliterated the Deathstar with ease so they could have saved a lot of manpower and just had 2 astromechs fly 2 X-Wings into it. A 50 kg ball of metal at 99% lightspeed would wipe a country the size of France off the face of the earth. A ship the size of the 3.5 Kilometer long Radiss? You are now talking about amounts that are somewhat close to the Sun's entire output in one second or something like 380000000000000000000000000 joules of energy or 9 Billion or so megatons. That would have obliterated the entire Supremacy and sent trillions of its parts traveling at relativistic speeds in all directions and destroyed the entire FO fleet and the fleeing Resistance and probably rained holy hell on the Planet Krait most likely semi melting the crust facing toward the incoming, maybe 80% of lightspeed, debris projectiles and probably burning off most of its atmosphere.
This explanation is exactly what I figured to be the reason why hyperspace was never used as a weapon. If a hyperspace impact was more than likely capable of wiping out an entire star system, that would be a good reason why people don't do it. Of course, that doesn't necessarily apply with factions like the Empire or the First Order, who were clearly willing to inflict such destruction. But then again, that would clearly show how they morally conflict with the rest of the galaxy. Story potential aside, all the ways it makes you second guess battle tactics in Star Wars don't feel worth it. This is one of those cans of worms they just shouldn't have opened.
adarian
Damn....you know your stuff buddy...
adarian
The visual was really cool, therefore we can just take a Rian Johnson sized crap all over continuity and logical military tactics in the SW universe.
Sigh, that is pretty much what happened in a nut shell. :(
With that said, it is next to impossible to hit such a small target from across the Galaxy, even with a computer. A star or a planet may have a decent enough gravity well to aim for, but a Star Destroyer? It also doesn't help that you need a lot of space in front of you in order to accelerate to and beyond the speed of light. Beyond that, you actually need to know where your target is going to be at the time of impact, and like I said that target will be microscopic. So while you can talk about physics and morality, I think the level of practicality is also something to consider. That said, I think that between this and being able to see a planet blowing up from a quarter a galaxy away, I think its pretty clear that these people just don't know how space works.
You know, I believe it was Linkara who said it best: when you need supplementary materials to understand your story, then YOU ARE FAILING AS A STORYTELLER!
Yes! I always thought that it was absurd to have to do outside reading in order for a film to make sense.
I think in some cases that would actually be fine, maybe even in a Star Wars movie, if it was a different type of movie. For example, in horror movies a lack of knowledge can be beneficial to the experience, but someone might want to know some details later anyways. However, main line Star Wars movies are not the right context for that, and it seems more like the books are just used to patch any noticeable holes in the plot or giving certain characters (Phasma) the personality they never got rather than elaborating on an already complete story.
According to Legends, the Y-Wing was being phased out in favor of the faster, more heavily armed and armored B-Wing by the end of the Galactic Civil War (Ep. 6). The absence of the Y-Wing makes sense. The absence of the B-Wing does not.
No, that makes even LESS sense why they dont have them, if Leia was starting up the resistance, they could have just grabbed some mothballed Y-wings which would be easier to train people, more efficient, and just better overall
Actually, the absence of Y-wings is about the only thing that DOES make sense in this movie. We know from the original trilogy and the Clone Wars/Rebels tv shows that the Y-wings were already an older design as of the battle of Yavin. In fact the rebels had removed almost all of the Y-wings armor in order to make it possible for techs to preform maintenance on them, giving us an idea of how maintenance intensive they were becoming, and the empire was in the process of recycling remaining clone wars era fighters. If we assume the same level of technological advancement that exists in our universe, exists in the star wars universe, then by the time of the last Jedi, Y-Wings were anywhere from 50-60 years old. So using them, would be akin to flying a world war 2 Wildcat against an F-22.
@@geoffreynewland2495 Again, upgrading is a thing, the Dreadnought Heavy Curiser was used for CENTURIES.
@Geoffrey Newland, Yet both use X-wings and Tie-Fighters in TFA & TLJ. Which would be the equivalent of using a Comet instead. Ehhh.
They may have been similar in appearance, but they were newer, better models of X wings and Ties. It's like comparing a brand new Chevy Corvette to a 1980s model. Same name, some visual similarities, different performance.
The Rebel Alliance, for example, used the T-65 X wing, whereas the Resistance used the T-70, an already outdated model by the time of TFA. Still, it was faster and better equipped than the older model. The Empire used the TIE/ln, whereas the First Order uses the TIE/fo which is equipped with deflector shields, improved engines, more powerful laser cannons, improved solar cells, etc. The newer fighters are visually similar to but much better than the older ones.
You forgot to point out they didnt shoot the hell out of Finn and Rose while kissing
The fact that even in a 35 minute video he still missed these kinds of basic problems with the movie is really sad
Let’s see either A) Waste the energy to blast a couple stuck on foot in a battlefield, who would’ve been killed off later in the assault. Or B) Ignore them and go for the main target with the huge gun. Hem. . .
Also you skipped over the fact that Finn managed to drag an unconscious Rose across the entire span of battlefield, that originally required them to use speeders to get the distance in the first place, and they weren’t killed at all. Da heck?
crypto1223 I mean you could send a unit to capture them for interrogation if you really didnt want to unload some clips on them. Disney ladies and gentlemen, disney
the probaly thought they were dead tho
As they ignored the increasingly long red line before then, caused by all the dragging around.
I also like how when ships run out of fuel, they fall out of space. 10/10 logic
La Corgi de America et Knuckles thats always been a thing in star wars. Even the clone wars had that problem where ships wrre destroyed in outer space and tgey just fell to a planet that suddenly exists but was nowhere in sight earlier.
Fuel isn't ever really mentioned, but ships in Star Wars don't seem to "orbit". If they lose power, they fall out of the sky.. which is exactly what would happen if they were simply working to continuously counteract gravity rather than moving at thousands of meters a second around a planet. Perhaps if you're not planning on staying long it is simply easier to fight that gravity to stay motionless rather than accelerate into a proper orbit. Of course, that falling out of the sky bit would take minutes to hours depending on altitude, rather than seconds.
Ricardo Martinez they fall towards a planet cause planets have gravity. They also fall slowly. These ships come to a screeching halt in dead space where there is very little gravity effecting those ships. Inertia is a thing..those ships could have kept going without fuel.
Also not to mention on the prequels/clone wars you could argue them blowing up from incoming fire via missiles or torpedos or whatever could cause them to “fall” because the two usually separated parts are being forced away in opposite directions because of the energy of the explosion. A kind of analogy is like dropping a rock on water.
Eno The sky? In outer space? They would like, just stay in orbit?
Regarding your last point; machines of war tend to last quite a while. Usually designs are updated in subtle ways to meet newer specifications and to incorporate new technology, but the basic design remains the same. The Supermarine Spitfire, for example, saw operational service for over 20 years. It was originally designed as a defensive fighter, but was later adapted to become a multi role reconnaissance aircraft.
A good design is a good design. If X-Wings and Tie Fighters were still functional enough, there is no reason why they wouldn't see a long service life through incremental updates.
When it comes to the military you don't always pick the best stuff possible, because the best stuff is inevitably going to be more expensive, which in turn makes losses more costly. Remember, you only have to be better than the enemy to win. Sometimes "good enough" is all you need.
The problem being that nobody was building Y-Wings anymore not even the corp that designed em. The newest one the Rebel Alliance had rolled off the assembly line near the end of the clone wars. Nearly every one they did have was either in civilian service or stolen from an imperial scrapyard. They were obsolete and a pain in the ass to maintain. B-wings would have pushed them out of service before the ink on the New Republic charter was dry.
Tie fighters were never good enough, those things were bi-planes compared to the other craft.
I agree completely. It's been stated numerous times how versatile the X-Wings were which was why they were used so often. They had a powerful arsenal, shields, torpedoes and probably most importantly, a hyperdrive.
Look at some naval ships. The USS Missouri is a prime example. While she wasn't completely in active service between her first commissioning and her last decommissioning, it was more than 50 years between those 2 dates and she stuck around for a long time.
TIE fighters, while they may have been utter crap, they were cheap. The whole reason the Empire used them was because they cost almost nothing to produce and in large quantities, that was ideal. They got the job done (only being bested by the Rebels). Swarm tactics were possible with these fighters. So they are most definitely crap, but once you start piling them up, they become a formidable force.
They weren't that crap, but it's the cheapness in quality that I'm referring to here: The Russian military in WW2. They made tons of tanks (no pun intended. No, I'm not proud) but didn't refine them to such a degree as the Germans did with theirs. This meant they got them out onto the battlefield fast and in vaster numbers. (yes, there were many other factors to their victory on the Russian front, but that's not why I'm talking about it). The Russian tanks had so many flaws. Kinks in the steel, quite a few other imperfections I can't remember. But they did work. Good enough IS enough.
Basically, X-Wings were fantastic because they were so versatile tho more expensive to maintain so their numbers were lesser.
TIE fighters were the exact opposite. Fantastic in numbers and frightful when used in swarm tactics (like in the Battle of Endor from RotJ) but due to their cheap quality, they suffered if they weren't in groups.
The First Order just don't have someone with a functioning brain. TIE fighters abuse their numbers to overwhelm an enemy. That is their design. USE THEM THAT WAY. They don't have the excuse that they didn't think of it. They didn't need to. The Empire already did the thinking for them. They just had to implement the same tactics and in most of these battles, they would've won! They had every reason to use their TIE fighters and number advantage and they just didn't do it.
Using a reason such as "they're only rebel scum" is stupid and whoever says it needs a blaster bolt between the eyes. They know what the Resistance is capable of, so holding back and not using their advantages is basically the same as slapping a fat target on their foreheads and closing their eyes.
Anyway, I'm done.
@@averagejoe9040 An interesting analogy as the Y-Wing was pretty much analogous to the British Swordfish torpedo bomber. Old, slow, but pressed into service because it could still carry the payload.
The B-Wing was specifically designed to attack Star Destroyers, based on what they learned flying the Y-Wing.
Except the T-34 tank. The Russians ran a survey on how long a T-34 would survive in combat, which I think was 6 months, and designed it to only last that long if it made it easier to build.
Harsh but effective
The Republic fell and lost all military force and cohesion in ONE DAY across an entire galaxy according TFA/TLJ. Why would they surrender given that Starkiller base is gone. All they had to do is add a multiyear time gap between the two films. A bridge too far I suppose.
Really, this should have been the story of one of the republics fleets in trouble. A trap in a region of space where hyperspace jumps don't work or using the interdictors.
And it should have been modeled on a real world battle between fleets.
Seems like they don't even know Starkiller exploded though.
Next thing you know, they'll handwave it by saying the holonet is down
Chris sonofPear
The Resistance clearly would have sent messages out about destroying Starkiller Base...
On the other hand, we've seen how terrible the Resistance leaders are at communicating.
Not to mention the fact that apparently most, if not their entire navy was located at a SINGLE STAR SYSTEM.
It boggles the mind. It really does.
Either of two things I suspect to be the reason:
1) Modern movie makers wrongly believe the audience to be so shallow, that what matters are a few cool shots, rather than an immersive battle.
2) Modern movie makers correctly believe the audience to be so shallow, that what matters are a few cool shots, rather than an immersive battle.
There were clearly a lot of people who enjoyed the spectacle over story telling, character and lore consistency, so Rian proved why Hollywood can keep shiting out shiny yet substance less Movies and keep making money off of people infatuated by shiny things...
The answer is yes to both. There are significant amounts of people in both camps. What makes a successful action scene is being able to appeal to both, not assume one has a massive majority while alienating the other.
Well... this is the Star Wars crowd we're talking about here.
@@shortlong8936 - If you're insinuating Star Wars fans care about flash over substance, I have to disagree. I don't know a fan who liked the new films or who liked the heavy use of CG in the PT or OT rereleases.
Or neither. Personally I like pacing, cinematography, musical score, acting, and character work. And i easily forgive things that dont make sense with the plot, or with battles. Especially with star wars. The ships never made any sense in space. how they were originally designed, they wouldnt be able to change direction, but they clearly do. So obviously with space battles I chalk it up to setting up a scene essential for a character's arc, rather than realism. Unfortunately, most characters arcs in this film either fall flat, or don't correlate with how they were previously written. the musical score was average. cinematography was above average. the acting ranged from average, to great. The dialogue went from piss poor, to average. So we end up with a mediocre, at the best moments, film.
When they used those bombers I remember thinking
“Hey where are the y wings that have been used since the clone wars “
And that’s when I realised
Oh god what have they done
lachlan armstrong the y wings couldn't do enough damage to the dreadnought be for it fired.
Bullshit, a single wing of y-wings completely disabled an ISD in rogue one with ion blasts.
The B/X-17 is meant for two roles. Cargo drops and low orbit bombing of ground targets. They were never designed for space combat.
Once again, where are the Y-wings?
Trigger Me6 well there are two reasons they could have possibly not used them one they didn't have any and two they didn't have any ion or proton torpedoes. Remember the resistance didn't even have enough fuel to get away.
devin Tomlinson
If they didn't have proton torpedoes, then logistics should be shot. Even the rebellion had proton torpedoes in the thousands, they aren't hard to get.
The Y-wing itself charges the ion blast.
Y-wings were the main stay of every rebellion fleet during open space combat. Once again, if logistics fucked that fuck. They should be shot.
Not to mention the lack of B wings. The bomber that came to replace Y-wings in the EU and the cartoon series Star Wars: Rebels
Trigger Me6 the simple fact is that the Rebellion was better funded than the resistance. That alone would explain why they didn't have any fighter bombers.
You know, every time I see Snoke, I'm disappointed. I remember when his hologram first appeared in Force Awakens and it was huge. That would have been so interesting if he was a giant.
(I know, this is about military analysis. But it still bothers me. Carry on.)
....why exactly would it be interesting if he was a giant?....
Revan The No-Life Demon because he has literally zero interesting qualities, being a giant would at least make him kinda cool.
@@revantheno-lifedemon885 Giant Lightsaber maybe. Or he could put up a Fight
I look at snoke the same... I thought there was going to be this interesting fight between a giant and a fleet of soldiers but nope
It would be hilarious if Snoke was actually a Judicator from Dark Souls 3: The Ringed City.
because This movie is made for children, the test audiences were 10 year olds.
This explains all the plotholes, the kids wouldnt notice or care. This explains the buffoon villains.
This explains all the cutesy creatures, max xmas profit in merch. This explains the childish jokes.
This explains why Leia and Holdo acted like soccer moms instead of realistic military leaders.
THIS EXPLAINS CANTO BIGHT: The sequence is there to introduce the wish fulfillment audience analogues,
the slave kids. The kid with unexplained force powers in particular, placed at the very end,
would make the kid audience jump with ecstasy. Disney, turning Star Wars into Frozen
I am not sure. If I were a child, I'd be bored stiff by this film. The prequels at least had some excitement in them but TLJ is incredibly dull and nothing exciting happens. Have any children told you they liked The Last Jedi?
To be honest, the film was probably made to be a platform for Kathleen Kennedy's politics and to further the goals of 'wamen' rather than to appeal to any particular age demographic.
smart children would be bothered by the plot holes and other dumb stuff. But most kids would laugh at the childish humor, like the cute animals, and insert themselves into the mary sue characters. This is what dumb kids like, and most young kids are dumb. And some people just dont grow up or get smarter despite school. But yes, the KK hand does carry blame for many dumb aspects of the film
George Lucas says Star Wars is for 12-year-olds. See here, at about 0:40:
th-cam.com/video/THKzwzieF40/w-d-xo.html
Disney may have dumbed it down a bit, though. :-)
KingEmperorPenguin my younger brother were absolutely memorized by this film and so were my younger cousins, even I loved the movie and I'm a HUGE star wars fan.
KingEmperorPenguin lamo true
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Rian Johnson the Fool?
I thought not. It's not a story the writers would tell you. It's a Stupid Legend. Rian Johnson the Fool was a Director, so powerful and so foolish he could use his authority to create plotholes... He lacked such knowledge of the source, he could even move characters from one side of the room to another in the blink of an eye.
The fools side of directing is a pathway to many stories some would consider unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was the fans not liking his movie, which eventually, of course, they did. Unfortunately, he created such a mess that Jar Jar Abrams had to return to make the ninth episode.
Ironic. He could create a beautiful movie, but not a good one.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a film school.
Amazing
Lmao
Yet his visual direction was great and his political correctness so unsubtle and shallow that few professional critics got past the surface to dissect the husk of a story beneath.
Poe must have Jedi reflexes to be such an amazing pilot and destroy anything at him. He is portrayed even better than Anakin.
He took out like 10 TIE fighters in five seconds.
He IS unquestionably the best pilot in the series.
I mean, shit, _anybody_ in rogue squadron beats the pants off Anakin. Poe being that good doesn't surprise me. Even Wedge could probably shoot down Vader.
To me it seems to hint at force-sensitive people who do not have enough power to wield the force, but can tap into the concentrated mentality that Jedi pilots seem to be capable of.
Poe is low-key Jedi status in my book....clearly underrated...
Yea in force awakens he is untouchable
FTL couldn’t be weaponised in Star Wars cause of the lore behind it which Ryan Johnson was apparently unaware of. Note how the first six would talk about FTL: they would say something like “jump into hyperspace”. Hyperspace is essentially a parallel dimension where distances are reduced and therefore you effectively travel faster than light while never actually breaking the speed of light. The ram in Star Wars lore would just be her jumping her ship into another dimension and then appearing light years behind the enemy fleet once they exit hyperspace.
Luke's entire attack on the Death Star was pointless. THey could have just rammed it with one or two fighter planes.
jsmall10671 no cause the physics in the Star Wars canon changed radically for no reason midway through. They didn’t have light speed in 4 they only had hyperspace jumps
Hyperspace and light speed are the same thing in the star wars universe
Also it's not a different dimension, you still hit things in real space while traveling through hyperspace, that's how gravity well generators work, they trip the safeties of the ships on board hyperdrive computer into thinking the ship is going to hit a planet. In essence the maneuver COULD work, but to destroy a large target you need a large ship, accelerate something the size of the ratis, rattis? To a fraction of the spead of light and you have enough power to wipe a fleet, a fighter wouldn't have that kind of power. In the end it's a controversial "we can do it, but should we?"
I am NOT defending this movie, just saying it seems some people aren't 100% on the lore and thought I'd simplify and clarify a few things.
@@zerochaotics1135 Yup. Anything with a large enough gravitational pull can pull a ship out of hyperspace as far as I know, and Snoke's ship is very big so it's possible. Also the gravity well generators in Rebels were designed to pull ships out of hyperspace. From my understanding, hyperspace is not necessarily another dimension. You could still hit real space objects. It's just that when you jump to hyperspace, you'd normally plot very accurate coordinates and you'd travel through a hyperspace lane which was already safe to use. They are pre-calculated so that you know that you're travelling a safe route and won't hit a planet. Hyperspace basically just is going really really fast, it's just normally people don't hit anything because they travel through safe, already known hyperspace lanes.TLJ doesn't break any hyperspace lore from what I can tell. It's just because kamikaze-ing the enemy in Star Wars has never been seen before that people think it's impossible. But it is more than possible. Something that DOESN'T make sense however is the fact that when in hyperspace, ships travel at lightspeed. If you apply real world logic to Star Wars, they travel a LOT faster than lightspeed. But no one critiques that.
@@FrostbiteCinematics the thing with gravity well generators is that it's actually a technology from the sith empire in the old republic days so it comes from more then just rebels, also gravity well mines were placed along hyperspace routes during the battle pf corecant during the clone wars slowing republic reinforments. TLJ as said doesn't break lore it's just not common. Also hyperspace is actually only a fraction of the speed of light. It still takes days and even months to get to places in the universe, also requires fuel and isn't instantaneous as it has led people to thank. Also thanks for a deeper explanation to my comment mate.
Finally somebody who notes how Leia could have called the bombers herself!
Perhaps Leia didn't really want to recall the bombers, but was glad to have a scapegoat in Poe to take the blame for the inevitable losses. ='[.]'=
As Vader would say “Impressive… most impressive”. More military plot holes.
www.ericmrozek.com/5-reasons-star-wars-the-last-jedi-franchise-killer/
José Juvenal Dávila
Vc é brasileiro? ou espanhol?
The Star Wars Company - Puerto Rico, USA. Idioma ESPAÑOL.
José Juvenal Dávila
👍
TLJ Creators: Its unfair, the movie was great, you all are just toxic
Fans: *Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly (choke hold)*
Yes they are toxic
If we are toxic, then stormtroopers could hit a penny from 900 miles, clones were worthless, and luke isnt anikans son. :3
@Ultimate Heresy I believe that statement to be debatable, it all kind of depends.
Maverick56 the effects of feminism are hate towards men, unhappy childless career women and cratering birth rates in affected countries,whatever you want to say about the origins of the sentiment.
@@goobermagoob9160 calm down, first I'd like to clarify: I'm a dude, second I disagree with feminism generally. But saying feminism is bad is too much of a blanket statement. In summary: I do believe that most people who weren't insane bailed on the idea already, but we should still specify to at least slow the growth of more radical versions
The Resistance exists soley to reset the Empire vs Rebels story. It is way too forced.
By the end of TFA the Resistance destroyed Starkiller base, THE largest military base the First Order had, and somehow they're on the losing side.
More importantly, _how did the First Order get so strong in the first place!?_ The Empire had been crushed and a new alliance had been built to prevent its return. Where did the First Order get the resources to do all this?
BrokenMoonStudios remember that the resistance is so small because the Starkiller base shot a single system where they amassed most of their army. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT
@@aldergodric4324
Another point: Many of the larger ships are literally so big they have to be constructed in space. So even if the planets of the Republic were destroyed, the Republic's navy would have been relatively intact. Then leadership would have fallen to the Republic military, which would have nothing left to protect and a burning desire for revenge.
Caroline Johnson-Pseudonym Sorry, it's been a long time since I watched it. Didn't Starkiller explode the whole system?
@@aldergodric4324
From the video of the weapon firing, it sort of branched out to hit each planet individually, but the explosions of the planets themselves didn't seem to branch out that far.
Holdo was a senator. Who knows why she's an admiral.
So we have a fleet led by a general(!?) and a fleet led by a politician? No wonder no one knew what they were doing: someone forgot to spend 200 energy buying an Admiral. (Stellaris Reference)
@@dargaronsoftsong3193 Get out of here with that Stellaris nonsense. This is Empire at War territory.
Man both of the games are good. Stop fighting.
@@cingenedovenaugustus4558 So I guess you could say... There are heroes on both sides?
I'll see myself out.
What? In Stellaris there are no heroes.
"[...] the resistance finding a way to escape and the first order realizing they have to fight the resistance another day."
yeah but like...
the Resistance now is down to like... 15 people.
and they are all in the Millenium.
there are still the stardestroyers...
yep. the Resistance is officially gone. XD
But the resistance still has one last weapon of mass destruction...
Of story.
Its called plot armor.
I think the idea is that they spread out and scoop up the remnants of the Republic forces - the ones that were not hit by Starkiller base, and form them into a larger, stronger Rebellion. That's basically how they did it in Return of the Jedi, and it was the plan they had right there in TLJ.
Let's hope JJ Abrams makes it worthwhile with an awesome space battle....
The situation at the end of The Last Jedi is honestly more hopeless than the end of The Empire Strikes Back. In TESB at least the Rebels were still a thing. Now the Resistance has under 100 people, just about no logical way to possibly defeat the First Order, and one ship, but they're still all happy and smiles and stuff. It makes no sense.
Dave Harrenburg it’s because it’s Disney. Got to make it hopeful no matter what.
It’s really not.
Love how you called the Vice Admiral "Pinkie".
It gets all the worse when you realize Leia ORDERED HIM TO BLOW UP THE DEFENSE TURRETS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Which he did. Him ordering an attack on the Dreadnought was what she didn't approve of. Yes it was a good trade ... but *only in hindsight.* Leia anticipated they wouldn't be able to actually destroy the Dreadnought at all, *and was almost correct.* Is it worth it to sacrifice two rooks, both knights and a bishop just to capture that enemy queen? Or should you retreat, reposition, and re-engage at a time and place more advantageous to your side?
@@Stratelier more like a few pawns for a queen, its a fucking dreadnought, i expected it to last longer than 5 minutes into the movie
@@Flash244MCGaming or more like ALL your pawns for the queen? They did lose their whole fleet, after all. And overall, the opening space battle _was_ badly written on multiple levels.
Stratelier they lost their whole fleet because of later incompetent leadership. The dreadnought and other star destroyers were in position to immediately strike at the fleet. Poe took out the most immediate threat which allowed the fleet to jump to another system. Subsequently the useless resistance leadership couldn't figure out how to evade 1 ship that could track them while they have 5 ships.- not hard to split up your forces and retreat
@@Stratelier I don't like that chess analogy, because the bombers are more like pawns: slow, can do damage to any piece if in the proper position, and are better suited as area-denial weapons. The Dreadnaught isn't even the Queen, it is a rook. That is a better analogy.
The first time I saw this movie I legit thought that Holdo was a traitor and knowingly leading the resistance to their deaths
That would've been a good twist. Poe would have to learn patience in order to expose her, which in turn shows to Leia that he's ready for leadership.
When you realize Jar Jar Binks is a more competent military leader than Holdo.
He lead the Gungan Grand Army to victory against the Trade Federation droid army, Holdo left the Resistance in tatters.
The Gungans were getting slaughtered. They only survived because Ani destroyed the master control ship.
So were Holdo''s rebels. At least the Gungans had a clear strategy and they all knew what it was.
Jar Jar is still key to all of this
Darkmesna1 jar jar also luanched a succesful rescue mission against hondo onaka. The clone wars tried to save him but their was no rescuing jar jar.
Holy shit dude, youre right
That thumbnail. "Where are the Y-Wings?" was the first thing I thought of when I saw how that battle played out. Those bombers were total garbage.
I was thinking more along the lines of "Where were the bloody K-wings? Bring them back to canon"
Totally, a ship of that size let alone a bomber would have shields and pretty decent ones. Instead the are made of aluminum foil
Actually thought they were corvettes when I first saw the pictures. Some kind of quick cheap weapon platform the Republic was rushing into service even if they weren't quite ready yet. Because of course the 90% of the surviving Republic military would be fighting in this film; at some point at least. I mean why wouldn't they?
anticarrrot
Because the good guys can't have superior fire power! REEEEEEEEEEEEEE. But in all seriousness if you decided to compare the legends new republic navy against the canon La resistance and new republic sleep mode navy the biggest difference is the firepower of the ships, in legends the new republic fleet has access to MC90s, viscounts, super star destroyers (like wedge antilles' Lusankya), and a few other warships along with E-wing escort fighters and K-wing bombers. La resistance and new republic sleep mode on the other hand, has that (points at the scene from the last jedi)
I actually didn't have an issue with it. Traditionally, Star Wars space battles have been modeled after WW2 arial battles. This was another example of that. And that homage was a good enough excuse to include it.
Honestly, I didn't expect much tactical brilliance of the faction whose master plan it was to build yet another, bigger death Star with an even bigger weak spot.
Yet even the First Order has more military acumen than, well, ANYONE in MLP:FiM, which kind of undermines the claim that it's so much darker and edgier than previous generations of the franchise. Also the First Order has more claims to starbusting capabilities than Celestia or Luna's hilariously weak claims to such feats. They would also totally lose to the First Order on the first day of battle.
For death planet to even have a weak spot you need a never before heard of method of bypassing shields that's Ok, not really practical unless...
You leave hyperspace within about 20m of the planet's surface. Completely breaking hyperdrive travel.
Taking down the shields requires the first order to have a traitor working against them, and their "badass" chrome trooper to fold like a bitch.
Even with the shields down the fighters (where are the bombers btw?) cannot damage the "weak point" without having been blown open from inside.
And all of that is dependant on how the resistance knew about the weak point in the first place. Why does Fin know anything the writers need him to at the time. I was in the navy, if you aren't working with a system, you don't know the system. And that is on a 250m ship. This is a planet! And apparently Fin worked on the supremacy!
Omfg, I'm calling him General Weasley forever now.
JelloFluoride Baby Tarkin
I get the impression that Bill Weasley was rather more competent a character than Armitage Hux.
You know Lord Wellesly? Great Governor General and Military commander who perfected the Subsidary alliance? Yeah, one classmate of mine in his berserk fit of desperation to answer every question possible yelled with comical amounts of overconfidence in his answer: LORD WEASLEY!!!!
I don't care if you're a woman hitting a man, when you impulsively and publicly strike someone of a junior rank to you - you are abusing your authority. That's unconscionable conduct of a commanding officer. It sort of makes sense as a matriarch, as if Poe was being admonished by his mother or aunt, but Leia is supposed to be a military commander. This is a terrible choice that ultimately undermines the character's rank as Leia is either an unstable mad general or not really an officer. Military hierarchy works by command, it should have been a huge deal for Poe to disobey orders of his commander and he wouldn't need to have a punishment forced on him he'd be ordered to his quarters and he'd go there. Instead the way they did it, it was more like he was being nagged by his mother. They really wanted to make Leia an important authority figure... but they fucked it up and couldn't resist writing her as their mother rather than what her rank is supposed to be.
They kept doing this.
Instead of writing good commanding officers who were female, they wrote in bossy mothers and aunts. I bet they thought they were doing women a favour with this depiction, maybe strike an allegory of "oh if only you listened to your mother's nagging" but it fails to show women can do what's previously seen as a man's role. They gave these women the ranks that men traditionally held... but did NOT give them their role.
completely agree. it's kind of like when they bash on capitalism... in a disney film... lmao
One of the most ingenious tricks pulled by capitalism making money off commie BS. Like selling a Che Guevera T-shirt for $75 when it was made in a Vietnamese sweatshop by 14 year old making 75c an hour. I'm just trying to imagine if Captain Picard of even Captain Janeway were to ever do such a thing, I just cannot conceive it as any other way than everyone just staring in utter shock at such an utterly out of character action. No officer, no REAL officer could do such a thing without consequence. Even if Picard did it, then no one would even have to do a thing, he'd say something like "it is obvious I am not fit to command" and immediately resigns and the second in command is formally made captain. And it would be no different for Janeway.
But there's more to being an officer than occasionally referring to her as General Leia. She wasn't written or presented as a commander, which is why it wasn't a big deal for her to strike Poe, because Poe was more like her naughty son or nephew, that's why she argued with him. Did they think they were writing a "strong female character" it's clearly they can't think of a woman is any position superior to them except as a mother. And the lesson seems to be "mother is always right" well this isn't an argument about eating your vegetables, this is a military command in a time of war!
Poe acts like idiot -- to reinforce movie's message all male authority is incompetent
Leia slaps Poe -- to reinforce society's message that men deserve to be slapped by vengeful women for their incompetence
Neither faces any consequences -- (unlike George S. Patton!) because writers don't care about narrative coherence.
Leia's writing is pretty awful in all the new Star Wars stuff. In TFA she did nothing, she didn't lead, she didn't fight, she is just standing around and even repeating what was just said to her. Not to mention how she "let the boys talk" as they planned the attack on Starkiller Base. And now it was even worse, same as Holdo she doesn't wear uniform for no reason, she doesn't order the Bombers to head back, she is out for quiet some time and then she appears again supporting Holdo who is one of the most incompetent military leaders I ever encountered. It's pretty ugly that the defense is "muh, you are all sexist", considering the critics are people praising Ivanova from Babylon 5 or reading Honor Harrington, not to mention watching Buffy back in the days. And back to Leia, while Poe did something wrong wasn't SHE responsible for all that? I mean who deployed the ships? Leia, Ackbar or someone else in the High Command certainly did and since Leia ordered Poe back, it feels like she is responsible for the mission and she didn't do anything to call back the fleet, she just let it happen.
Oh and without Poe, the First Order had this Super Star Destroyer with a devastating weapon that could easily shred big ships to pieces. Without Poes continued attack, the Raddus wouldn't had been able to fly for hours...
The female military leaders are simply written really, really bad.
Valeria Caissa not saying I disagree with the analysis of how incompetent people were here but I always just assumed incompetence (esp. Military)was a theme of Star Wars.
The empire put all of its money into two planet killers and lost or took unreasonable losses in every battle we saw in episodes 4-6. On of which was to ambush tactics from a native 3 foot high species who hadn't developed guns yet.
Furthermore, we don't (from the movies) really know much about the resistance. They certainly have ranks but they don't seem like a competent rules oriented group given that they keep having to do last minute evacuations or their command bases which frequently contain "all thats left of the resistance". and we really don't know their culture either other than "anti empire and anti blowing up planets". It could be that light corporal punishment for insubordination is perfectly acceptable where as suicide raming attacks are taboo even in battle. Letting your commanders make a mistake is weird though but so is trying to convince someone to be evil a la the emperor in Return of the Jedi.
The best example of an intelligent commander is definitly Grand Admiral Thrawn. He is smart, calculating, cold with tons of infromations on his enemies and he knows the best tactics in almost every situation. I mean he literally figures out the movements of the enemy, before they even do it! He is the Sun Tzu of star wars, and the original sequels did an amazing job with his portrayal. Tarkin has the power. Vader the force. But Thrawn has something that can't be taken away: His mind. He is my personal favourite character in the whole star wars universe, and hell even the rebels showed some of the good old Thrawn on the screen. This is why is it so frustrating, that the same series that has villians like Thrawn, lets these incompetent mongrels into the commander seat.
Main reason I could guess is that someone as competent as Thrawn... would win.
That's why the books are superior to this crap they now call canon
@@user-re1uj7zt9m It was stupid for Disney to throw away the EU. Did Marvel throw away their universe when they started making movies? No. Tweaked it a bit, yes, but they didn't throw it away. There were so many wonderful stories to borrow from in the EU, which Disney acquired with the purchase of Lucas Film. Talk about killing the golden goose.
@@jongoff7829 Thinking that they could've just gone the way Marvel is going right now... A triology about the Thrawn series alone would've brought them billions... Or something about the Republic Commando series by Karen Traviss.... Instead they hire a director for episode 8 who didn't even see episode 7
It can still happen, they could introduce Thrawn into the new films if they really wanted. I'm not sure about his species lifespan though, he'd be rather old.
Why is a General commanding a Fleet?
THANK YOU! Finally, someone noticed it!
Empire kept order in the separation of their armed forces rather neatly. You had generals leading ground assaults and admirals commanding the fleets.
Term "General" was used by the filthy rebels in a colloquial way. Their generalship was symbolic and could be interchangeable with "hero" or "commander". As far as I remember, Han Solo never completed any military academy that would open his career to promotion within the officer core.
Considering his assignment during the battle for Endor, he was serving more in the capacity of a Captain or Colonel(at most). Certainly not a General.
Prequels retroactively explained this "generalship" obsession of the Rebellion. During the Clone Wars Jedi Knights were holding the rank of a General... which was still completely symbolic, as they actively commanded single capital ships, as well as whole fleets AND the ground forces too. It only showed how disorganised the Grand Army of the Republic really was.
You'd think the First Order would emulate the Imperial military, instead of the Rebel one. But I guess no one on the writing staff thought about it*
Or anyone else who pre-approved the script before the film went into production.
At the end of the day, I believe that General Haxx's command over fleet is an effect of nepotism within the First Order itself, where Snoke's inner circle commanders are automatically in charge over every military asset. Order my ass...
*By "writing staff" I mean Mr. Johnson.
If the First Order was originally sent to destroy a Resistance base on a planet and lets say that the Dreadnought was knocked out by an ion cannon, like the star destroyer in Empire, then a ground assault would have been the plan b of destroy the base. This would make some sense as the small fleet chasing the Resistance was being led by Snoke. That or general and admiral are now interchangeable.
None of this helps the plot holes. If there was enough gas in the tank to make one more jump why wouldn't the plan have always been jump and make an immediate second jump scattering the fleet before the First Order jumped into the second location.
This is also the first time a real threat of running out of fuel has been in a Star Wars move. If the Resistance was worried about making constant hit and runs and quickly moving to a new base there should have been a better reserve of fuel. The only explanation of fuel loss is that all of it magically got lost in those plot holes.
Han Solo was an imperial officer, second lieutant in the imperial navy before becoming a smuggler in old EU.
Also Jedi Generals were assisted by Republic navy officers (Admiral Yularen in the Clone Wars series for example)
@@Warsie I am terribly sorry Sir, but according to the new lore we're operating with, Han Solo was expelled from Cardia Academy, court-martialled and drafted to the 224th Division holding the rank of Corporal. I do, however, highly admire your attention to the original EU - and if we would agree to ignore the new expanded universe (which I would if given a chance), I'd certainly stand corrected Sir.
Regarding Fleet Officers assisting Jedi, this is exactly the point I was presenting - Admirals, Commodores or even Captains should be in command of Republic Navy vessels - and it is Jedi who should serve as advisors, not the other way around.
To take a step away from the realism, I absolutely understand why Jedi were put in command of everything. It would make for a rather poor film/tv show if whenever space combat took place, we'd listen to a bunch of brass organising tactics over the heads of the monk warriors, degrading them the status of military assets.
In either case, thank you for your comment.
May the Force be with you.
Maybe the First Order considers their fleet more of an air force than a navy? But then they name ship classes by naval tradition? I dunno, you need to do too much mental gymnastics to make this movie make sense.
It always bothered me how the Dreadnought was left vulnerable by the other Resurgent Class Ships. They literally sat there and watched the Resistance destroy it. No Turbo lasers being fired on the bombers, no additional Tie Fighters launched from them, nothing.
They didnt even attack the Resistance fleet they LITERALLY sat there
Yeah well this movie was written by one man. One man who couldn't write.
The joke is on us. Rian Johnson just won the Saturn Award for best script for The Last Jedi.
Ellessandra Ramsay More shame for the Saturn's than for us though ;)
Ellessandra Ramsay
Last Jedi= Good Writing? So in this Bizarro alternate reality I guess that Saving Private Ryan was a dumpster fire?
artix548 indeed - and don't get me started on that Casablanca and Citizen Kane drivel
Ya think
What's even worse is if poe was told about pinkies plans Finn and Rose would've never left and get that discount pro hacker and got on the big ship the hacker dude would never have been able to tell the first order about the cloaking.
This movie felt like it was written by a 12 year old girl. Only a child would think that losing your entire fleet, losing all your experienced commanders, running away for the entire movie, and losing your most experienced space wizard is a moral victory. The rebels were losing the whole movie and then they end the movie with some stupid vague message of hope. If you can fit your whole army in the back of a pickup truck you are losing. You can't win a war with a couple feminists, a mary sue, and one good pilot.
This. So much this.
ashleigh woytuik But with a love triangle you can!
Did we watch the same movie? 20 people on the falcon is not a victory. And as your "stupid vague message of hope", Empire strikes back has a more hopeful ending of than this. In that movie, Luke gets his hand back, you see them regrouping with the rebellion and you are reminded that they have hope. Here they are flying away from the first order with less than 50 people left.
Nom San stop making nonsense connections to the empire strikes back, these are drastically different movies and the last Jedi Isn't anywhere near the level of esb.
Not only by, also for 12yo
"The Resistance" existing while The New Republic was still around was pretty stupid.
Frankly, if they were going to exist at the same time as the new republic they should have called themselves The republic defense force
As Kevin Warburton mentioned, such groups have existed for a long time.
They actually address this in the previous movie, where Hux basically says in a speech that the Resistance is just an arm of the New Republic...and we know that throughout the movies.
The Resistance is in fact a force that belongs to the New Republic, working as a more or less "covert" force trying to keep plausible deniability.
The thing is, with the fights escalating as they had, the deniability was no longer that plausible.
It's one of the things I actually like about the new trilogy (despite all the things I don't like.).
They should've just kept it as the New Republic and The Empire.
Yeah, it’s like if the un had a private military commanded by 0 governments
@@cjgonz2004 "Hux basically says in a speech that the Resistance is just an arm of the New Republic.."
But then it makes no sense to call themselves "The Resistance". Resistance is against the authority, the powerful, the status quo.
It's just fucking dumb. No need to try and rationalize goofy shit.
I have to say, when i saw this film i couldnt help look at all the faults because they were EVERYWHERE
Andy Arnold what do you mean everywhere? The entire movie was a fault...
Most of this could have been fixed with one line of dialogue: “Should we send everything against the Resistance and destroy them?” “No, Snoke wants the girl alive for some reason. She might be on a ship, or perhaps someone she cares about whom we can use as leverage.”
Boom. Now the incompetence of the FO is explained. They are holding back.
It still doesn’t explain the incompetence of Leia and Holdo though.
Yeah but about halfway through the film Rey tells Kylo she found Luke meaning she's not on the ship.
@@Blackmamba4798 I think he don't tell anyone about this.
Add a couple scenes establishing New Order spies, edit the script a little, and boom. Holo can't tell Po because she doesn't know who she can or can't trust. As far as she's concerned everybody except Leia is a potential mole.
And Leia uh... I don't know... she's old? Maybe her mind's starting to go a bit? Something like that..?
The incompetence of the First Order is completed canonically explained by it's severe divide - the older post-Imperial officers such as the admiral or whatever of the dreadnought (the angry guy), and newer personnel such as Hux.
The old guard are extremely intelligent strategists etc and are the reason a lot of the mistakes the Galactic Empire made were avoided, or at least attempted to be avoided. For example, Old Guard engineers ensured that the TIE/fs Fighters (pretty sure that's what they're called) were shielded. The Old Guard are more careful and conservative, and usually like to play it safe. They're smart and they know what they're doing. If they had full control over the First Order (other than Snoke of course) then the First Order would control the galaxy already.
The newer officers are far more naive and confident in themselves and the First Order. They believe fully and religiously in the glory of the First Order and it's power, and basically believe it's unstoppable.
This severe divide has pretty bad consequences; as a whole, the First Order IS INCOMPETENT BY DESIGN (from the writers).
THEY EVEN SHOW THIS IN THE FILM: Hux and the angry admiral dude of the dreadnought (captain?), a very senior member of the Old Guard, argue about sending the fighters out (I think that's it - I haven't watched it in a while).
I find it frustrating how no one seems to know this. But when you think about it, a lot of Star Wars "Fans" barely know what they're talking about. I'm not suggesting you are one of them - there's so much Star Wars canon and lore and information and whatever out there - and there's a heaps of stuff I don't know. I just find it strange how not many people know about this, or payed attention or thought about when they showed us this scene.
Check out Generation Tech's video on it. It explains it fully and cites the official sources. I probably didn't explain it very well. Sorry for the long comment. Have a nice day. :)
The correct answer would be: Because then it would look like the writers actually knew ANYTHING about proper military strategy while writing the film. Which is clearly not the case. Or writing characters who can use common sense, which is also not the case. The villains and military leaders from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi are so incompetent, they would make even Dick Dastardly look like a tactical genius.
or even knowledge of watching the past star was triologys.....i mean cmon even the first and third star wars had better spacefights.
The Highlords of Terra are more competent then these people, thats saying something.
Well at least they take their jobs seriously.
Proof that sjws ruin everything.
Or why don't they just hire some experts to help them out?
The Mandator Dreadnought lacked any ventral turrets whatsoever, so Poe could just fly under the vessel and destroy the cannon,
Or because it fired at the resistance base, he could go for its bridge, since its shields would still be recharging.
Sounds like something, that you could do with just one X-wing, and not the entire fleet.
But it could be repaired, but completely obliterating it cost the first order dearly, billions of credits, hundreds of thousands of personnel, not to mention one of their best admirals, all lost in seconds
@@ntfoperative9432 yeah... After like, a couple months to years. And that's time you don't really have, y'know? You want to kill these guys now, not later.
"They just have to be less stupid than their enemies." Best thing I've heard all day.
*Resistance replaces slow, not very maneuverable, and fairly large bomber carrying one person with even slower, bigger, and less maneuverable bomber carrying more people*
I mean, what happened to the B-Wing? And if the X-Wing got revamped for TFA, why couldn't I get a new look too?
but the new bombers carry 52X your payload.
Because the director doesn't care about starwars. Its just another sci-fi space film for him to add to the resume. shits weak af. :(
I missed the Y-wings a ton too...
NINTENDOSH And yet they still suck ass
Bwings are awsome since they actually make sense. the "plane in spaceee" never seems to be a very good idea to start with.
And someone is definitely making hell of a profit selling not-up-to-date equipment (with new color scheme and action figures) to both side
The only competent officer in the entire first order who seemed to have even a remote grasp of tactics was the captain on the Dreadnought, Captain Canady, who the wiki says was an old Imperial era holdover.
Yet despite that he is surrounded by a younger First Order bridge crew who are pretty much useless. They can't even get their act together and follow his orders.
So the only competent character is killed off within the first 10 minutes of the film.......
That captain's presence only further succeeded in highlighting how incompetent the rest of First Order really was. And quite frankly. made the rest of them look even worse than they already were.
RIP Dreadnought captain, you were the only competent villain I expect to see in the entire trilogy.
Eye of the Storm i liked him too
At the end of the film there are less than 400 Resistance left, they have no capital ships and no fighters beyond the Falcon and are in search of friendly forces to hide them from the First Order. Man the First Order really dropped the ball on this one, completely crippling your enemy to the point that they pose little threat for awhile is incompetence at its best.
What I thought was probably the most retarded thing about this film is - why did all the resistance capital ships have practically no fuel?
None of those capital ships took part in the battle against Starkiller base, and they didn't seem to have been involved in any other conflict before the evacuation.
It was heavily implied that the evacuation occurred only a few days after the battle at Starkiller base. The battle at Starkiller base itself only occurred a couple of days tops after the Starkiller base blew up the Resistance planets.
So prior to that, the resistance still had a support base.
So did no-one think to refuel even one of their capital ships for several months?
cld1472 Is that sarcasm???
Eye of the Storm Funny part about this one is the fact that the Raddus is the same ship class as the Home-1, a ship that can fly 100 years without refueling according to the wiki. Considering thr Raddus probably isnt 100 years old, this scenario makes no sense at all. And even if the ship was built so long ago, I highly doubt nobody ever refueled it during that time.
And that's why Warhammer has more sense. Everyone kills everyone.
Preach it Brother!
Amen!
*laughs in Necron*
Wait... The New Republic just let the Empire keep most the Galaxy? WTF? That can't be right.
Lucas is cackling to himself right now, "So you nerds through I ruined Star Wars? Fools! Wait until you see what Disney does to it! You'll be begging to have Jar-Jar back! He was the key to all of this the whole time! MUWAH HA HA HA!!"
Alondro77 I'd rather have jar jar, because at least that can have meme potential like the fan game jar jar's jar jar jar. All rose has is potential motive for a suicide.
That's what I thought...so, the New Republic just let the Empire keep the Inner Rim and Core? Those are the most economically developed planets in the Galaxy. The Colonies and Mid-Rim are better than the Outer Rim, but why would they just let the Empire hold on to the literal center of the galaxy?
The lack of Jar Jar Binks as a secret Sith Lord who was actually competent but playing the fool was the greatest missed opportunity of Revenge of the Sith
Just Some Guy Ok whats even more retarded is that the New Republic voted to demilitarized with the empire still around.
If you can push a button and detect cloaked ships, there's no such thing as cloaked ships.
Jeffrey Williams They used Snoke's magnifying glass.
The word "Cloak" or "Cloaked" was not used once in this entire movie.
So how did they expect to get to the planet undetected? The plan makes even less sense now.
Episode 8 should just be declared non-canon. It has ruined Star Wars for most of its fan-base.
This whole trilogy should be declared non-canon. Episode 7 wasn't very good either.
bob smith at least we had fun with seven.
@@olinroux6702 You had fun with 7? Lucky you...
ThieflyChap I know man. I remember a time where there was excitement and anticipation for the next movie. But now we are waiting for it to be boycotted. It’s really sad.
I feel as though it isn't. The fans decide what is canon and what isn't. The creators can try to say it's their property all they want, but, ultimately, it's us fans who decide whether we want it or not. We decide what is accepted as canon. That's how art works. It's created by the artists, but it belongs to the people, the fans. So, screw Disney. I'm not gonna have it. If they don't like it, tough. They cant force us to accept a story we don't want. We can just choose not to buy, watch, read, or whatever. That's the power of fandom.