The Devil's sin: pride. Not doubling down on Rey is admiting she fucked up big time, and her ego can't have that. That's what Star Wars has become, a playground for bratty kids with a lot of money involved.
Why for them Rey is a feminist's icon? When she forgives Kylo Ren and fallen in love with him, that aspect is pretty anti-feminist, and only leave Rey as a character who suffered from stockolm syndrome, at the same level as Anastasia Steel or the main character from 350 days.
You're absolutely right. That trilogy was ruined by ego and arrogance. I'm sure KK, JJ and RJ were all convinced that they could do better than George Lucas. They still probably think that. And let's not forget the role of stupidity. How on Earth could you put 4 billions on the table for a trilogy and not plan ahead what's gonna happen? They disrespected Lucas and SW fans. They're never gonna see my money again.
Leia Organa, in the VERY first Star Wars film, picks up a stormtrooper blaster the MOMENT her cell is opened and fires off , probably, the most shots out of the trio in the escape. She also comes up with the plan to escape through the trash compactor if I remember correctly. Padme Amidala isn't just THE queen of Naboo, but she FREQUENTLY outsmarts not just her enemies but her OWN allies by disguising herself as a handmaiden, leads the assault on the palace and captures Nute Gunray. In the second movie, she AGAIN outsmarts her enemies by disguising herself as a fighter pilot escort for the senator, flies ANAKIN to Tatooine AND Geonosis as a way to loophole the Council's orders so that they can do what ANAKIN has to do while asuaging his fears about his mother and save his master (meaning SHE has the power and willingly chooses Anakin's course of action), and is THE FIRST of the three at the execution to break free and fight back during their execution. But no, Rey is the first feminist icon in Star Wars.
In the sense of ideologically feminist, Rey is partly the first. I actually wouldn't call Leia or Padme feminist characters because neither embody belief in patriarchy or the Marxist oppressor/oppressed dynamic. The reason I would not call Rey a fully feminist character is because she does not treat all men as enemies or inferiors but also has the capacity to be kind to others beyond just a facade as well as still needing help (not always but there were occasions). Fully feminist characters, such as Asoka (from the recent series), The Madalorian's boss-bitch and above all Captain Marvel and Galadriel (RoP) lack empathy, limits or growth - basically goddesses incarnate. This is not to say that Rey does not embody some feminist traits of storytelling (the assumption of powers compared with learning/earning these and the ultimate refusal of emotional and sexual relationships with any men) but that we might look at her character as corrupted but not wholy. Honestly, the reason why Rey still has a sort of following is because of her film relationship with Ben Solo (because lots of female fans love love/redemption stories) which does give her character a bit more humanity than most feminist icons. My thoughts anyway.
Not to mention Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Tahiri Veila and all the women of the EU, who KK pretends didn’t even exist, saying “there was no source material.”
@@ardendragoon Well, if you look at the tactical situation, the party were stuck in a corridor with the known exit blocked by Stormtroopers, so to stay put was to run down the odds until a Stormtrooper shot would hit one of the four characters. Therefore, Leia's move of blasting open the grate and laterally exiting the corridor made sense because it resolved the unwinnable situation. That it ended up in a garbage compressor was not a certain outcome as they could have ended up in a sorting or storage room/bin and made their way out. The crusher scene added an extra layer of comedy and horror as well as defusing the possibility of the princess being omnipotent (as the move did almost end up killing them) and deepens the tension between Han and Leia.
I knew KK disrespected the fan base when she cut off the expanded universe but now I know she absolutely hates the fan base based on her actions and agendas.
@@EternalEmperorofZakuul *I doubt it.* Edit: OH WAIT, you mean get rid of the Expanded Universe! Okay, I agree with that, good ol' George always had a peeve against the EU, which is kinda sad.
One aspect of Disney Star Wars which I don't think gets talked about nearly enough is jealousy. I truly believe that when Disney first acquired the rights to SW, they set out to create a series of films which would essentially replace the OT in the minds of the fans. Going forward, they wanted the IP to be Disney SW and not Lucas SW. Look at how they treated most of the legacy characters from the OT - Han is unceremoniously killed off, Luke's character is completely trashed, Chewie becomes Rey's sidekick. Only Leia comes out halfway decently as a mentor figure. The Disney theme parks also lean heavily into the ST (Galactic Star Cruiser anyone). I think it really rankles the folks at Disney that people still love the OT more than their own IP, and that the Rey movies are another poke in the eye for the people who "refuse to let go" of the past.
I agree with all of this except Leia being handled half-decent. I put her equally as bad as Luke, just all of her trashing happened off-screen because she was a tertiary character at best till after the actress died
I disagree about Leia. A. Mary Poppins in Space B. Their is a line in Last Jedi where either Holdo or Leia explains that flying to Crayt was something she/Leia would´ve done as well which is a horrible plan and shows Leia as a crappy General. She comes off as really incompetent for someone who was a good planer and tacticion in the OT.
I think the same way about how Star Trek was handled since 2017: I honestly believe that one of the reasons why _Discovery_ is chronologically set before _The Original Series_ is because some people involved in its production think TOS is outdated and *problematic* and needs to be overwritten and replaced. They eventually figured out that this was a bad movie, thats why they set later Seasons of the Series in the far future, thats why its spin-off _Strange New Worlds_ has been tapping into TOS design-wise much more than DISC has.
Except they have done this to their own products as well (see The Little Mermaid and Snow White). Not jealously but *aufhaben* or creative destruction (see Marxism) - the aim is to destroy the old arts and stories and replace or reform these on new modern "moral" lines. These are religious zealots.
Even though Jyn Erso isn't a fully fleshed out character, at least she isn't made out to be better than everyone without explanation. she's still miles better than Rey. From petty criminal to a Rebel. Nobody called her a Mary Sue is because she isn't one.
The only good thing from Ray for me is that she made me appreciate other female characters in star wars like leia Ashoka, cere Merrin, trilla, padme, etc…
@@Milothemighty10 There have been plenty of female characters in Star Wars I grew up with, but according to these dummies at Disney, I'm sexist for not liking lame characters like Rey.
@@dereklopez9060 I guess they do that because people don’t like the sequels and anyone who hates them is toxic or something. I’m still doing my Star Wars chronological rewatch all the way from Phantom Menace to Ahsoka yesterday I finished up a new Hope and more than ever I was reminded why I love Star Wars..
Because Kennedy has an ego the size of Jupiter. She can't accept her perfect little character is and always be hated. She will make you love her, no matter how much money she has to burn to do it.
“The main thing is is to protect these characters make sure that they continue to live in the way you created them” this is a quote from an interview Kennedy had with George Lucas himself promising. The original trilogy characters would be honored under Disney, but we all know how that turned out…
@@Milothemighty10 Whenever that clip comes up, I nearly lose my mind with anger. How dare you sit there and tell the man who gave her job his work will be resepcted while knowing she wasn't going to
@@Milothemighty10 The Shills on social media scream and when you point out the bad writing, lore breaking logic, they just scream. They've found Disney pays people to troll social media. It's very sad
When TFA came out, I really loved Rey and for me as a female fan she WAS important. Not because she was the first female protagonist in SW (she wasn't!) but because for the first time we saw a female JEDI on the big screen that wasn't just background decoration. As I love Jedi, this was a really big thing to me and I felt quite protective of Rey, even defended her. But then came TLJ and I realized that they were trying to make Rey look better at the expense of Luke, taking away all of Luke's accomplishments and handing them to Rey. This was the moment when I started to despise Rey for being a Mary Sue.
That's what I meant. She wasn't the first female protagonist. Leia was. I just wanted to refer to what is often said about Rey in the media and stress that this was not the reason why I originally liked her. I edited my original post to make it clearer what I meant.
@@marajade9879People like you are crucial to the fanbase, as your points cause the rather flimsy claims about "all _Star Wars_ fans being sexist" to fall apart. Despite what _The Big Bang Theory_ went to extreme lengths to claim, there are plenty of woman who are _Star Wars_ fans, and many of them also take issue with their representation being written badly.
@Daniel_Huffman , exactly! We female fans love to see characters that represent us, but not if they're written badly! I don't want to be fooled by writers who have no idea where their story is going and are changing around Rey's backstory as they see fit. And I also don't want to see my hero Luke being out of character!
@@marajade9879 My personal rule is this: "We don't need strong female characters. We need strong characters who happen to be female." Essentially, unless the character's gender is important to their story, such as Mulan in the original 1998 animated film, their personality and traits should be written before their gender. Many of the characters who pass this test were written out of inspiration rather than obligation, and the writers of said stories were not under the pressure of corporate deadlines. Part of me has this conspiracy theory that Lucasfilm is perfectly happy with female characters and racially diverse characters being written badly, since no matter how well-constructed a criticism against them is, all Lucasfilm has to do is call the people making these claims misogynistic, and they don't get taken seriously. I have decided to refer to this as a "Rey shield."
Watching Disney handle Star Wars is like watching a friend drink and insist on driving home. We all know how this will end but we cant stop it from happening. We can't take the keys away from Disney.
Lucasfilm is probably the drunk friend in this scenario, while Disney is just the irresponsible parent or guardian who cares more about their drunk child getting them home rather than the obvious risks present in it. The corporation is not going to care about how Lucasfilm writes _Star Wars,_ but rather how much money it makes. The decline of this franchise is a sad reflection of how Disney itself has declined in recent years. It's kind of sad that _this_ is what Walt Disney's legacy is turning into.
KK wishes she was half as forgivable as Rey. I can forgive Rey to an extent because she’s a mere caricature with no will of her own written so horribly, KK on the other hand actively chooses the wrong things possible.
I dont think its impressive. Breaking something is always easier than creating something (especially something GOOD), like Lucas did with the ot and the prequels.
A better approach would have been to simply have the character grow up a little more and become more likeable. Just shuffling the character off the stage felt like exactly what it was: damage control, rather than a creative choice.
Lucas learned nothing. He put Jar Jar in the next two movies to spite the fan base as Jar Jar was only supposed to be in the first movie. Lucas throwing a fit over the fans not liking the Prequels is the reason he sold to Disney. He couldn't accept he was wrong.
Honestly, I think it's more of combination of all the comments in this thread. Yes, pulling Jar Jar out was damage control and Lucas didn't like it but he probably didn't see any other option at that point. Now, Lucas had a plan for the prequels that Jar Jar already had a role in. Him being mad at the rejection of the character can be true. Episode 3, I don't remember Jar Jar having any lines, he just hung out in the background. Episode 2 was the second chance, I don't think Jar Jar was originally suppose to give the speech about adopting the clone army. Would have made a little more sense if someone else had done so. That move might have Lucas's middle finger there.
@@Banzai51 You sure that was Lucas' intent, and not projection on your part, as well as certain "fans"? I don't think I ever seen anyone with a bigger chip on their shoulders than Prequel haters. Heck most of you cheered for TFA, despite it was of lesser quality not only to the OT, but lesser to even the PT. I'd rather not take movie notes from amateurs who don't even know basic filmmaking techniques coughChrisStuckmanncough coughRLMcoughcough.
It’s classic hubris. Instead of admitting to the mistake, one doubles down on the lie. We’ve seen this over and over again with politicians, kings, celebrities. It’s only when their entire ego has been dismantled-usually in a very public way-that they finally admit their folly.
Rey is Kennedy. Rey is literally just Kennedy inserting herself into Star Wars. This is why she wont be dropped. The background narrative to Kennedy is that she feels slighted for her artistic skills during her rise being seen a purely business person, SHE is no body just like Rey.
She was a 'fetch the coffee girl' who married a famous director and got producer credits to prop up her reputation on great movies made by far more brilliant minds than her!
Bo-Karen is more accurate self-insert of KK: the privileged, powerful, spoiled villain who keeps failing upwards and never faces any consequences for her evil deeds.
@@Mouse_Metal that's actually a pretty big reach-- and I despise that you just made me say anything that could be misinterpreted as defense for KK-- whom I view as having done the most damage to Star Wars out of anyone by far. Bo Katan experiences all kinds of downfalls throughout her arc that began in TCW. The problems with her character are more just broad issues with the writing for The Mandalorian-- which is the most overrated piece of garbage series in Star Wars. It's not the worst of them-- it's just the most undeservedly praised for being good when it's mostly trash in its entirety-- with or without the Boba show's weird crossover. Even so-- we still see Bo Katan at one of her lowest points in that show, having lost everything and a complete failure-- and fully self-aware of this. That's a far cry from the atrociously inhuman writing for Rey's character-- and Bo Katan existed long before KK usurped her way onto the scene. You ascribing that all to Bo Katan is just you getting ragebaited by some of the shittier Star Wars creators. I agree that events in Mando following her are not logical-- but overall her character has been well fleshed out and she has certainly experienced downfalls and redemptions throughout her existence as a character.
@@dh1148ify I didn´t mean to say K-K. wrote this pseudocharacter this way, I wanted to say she is the most accurate representation of K.K. Felony is fully responsible for the atrocious writing around this pseudocharacter since TCW, which is the most overrated crappy series ever. Bo-Karen is the most evil character in SW except of Palpatine. Stop making excuses for that monster who t0rched and ensl4ved innocent villagers, se*ually abused minors, terr0rized her homeworld to usurp power and establish a warmongering dictatorship of the same type the Death Watch established on that planet where they oppressed the native villagers, she wanted her own sister dead and then lied about it when her plan No.1 failed and played a victim. She has never paid for her atrocities, everyone else around her suffers because of her but she is always fine like a Mary Sue she is, bending the plot around herself. She keeps failing upwards and everyone praises her and selectively forgets how she treated them. Bo-Karen totally deserved to be abandoned by her goons. She has never deserved to have any goons in the first place because she betrayed her own creed the moment it stopped being profitable to her. After she lost her goons in S3 I thought they are going to fix the terrible writing of TCW and Rebels where that sociopathic, narcissistic monster is glorified and put into power because the script says so (because Felony loves this trash Mary Sue too much). Even the Mando-centric episodes in BOBF suggested the karma is finally comming for her. But no. Her insults, whining, blaming everyone except of herself and doing NOTHING when Din - the f-ing Mandalore by the ownership of the dakrsaber - comes to her and asks for help, is so disgusting I don´t even have words for it. That entitled, self-absorbed, spoiled brat can´t even sit like a decent human being. She has been lying to Din and using him since the moment in S2 where her Sidekick spied on him, so she could "help" him later and make him feel obliged to help her on her mission. She changed the terms of their deal on the way, lied about the darksaber being "rightfully hers" and when Din really needed her help to save Grogu form Gideon she insulted him and Boba and joined the rescue mission only to get the darksaber. Her behavior is consistently insufferable and infuriating, including the narcissistic body language and facial expressions. And I am supposed to root for her and feel sorry for her? S3 was such an absurd glorification of that evil Mary Sue and it was so obviously rewitten to hammer that villain into Din´s rightful pIace I didn´t even finish it and went to write my own S3 and I´m done with Felony, Crapleen and DiSSney and their whaamen can do nuthing wrong pr0pagand4.
@@dh1148ify Blocked. Obvious troll is obvious and your moral compass is so broken it explains why you can only use lies and manipulations to defend a VILLAIN who has never done anything to redeem herself. Anyone can watch the stuff with Bo-Karen and see the truth for themselves. Also, personal insults towards me don´t make your crappy post better, it just proves you have nothing to say, so you insult and lie.
Option 1: Use George Lucas' blueprint for the sequels and hire one director with a broad vision for well-connected storylines through three different movies. Option 2: Throw that blueprint away. Hire three directors who want to do things their own way and wind up with three movies that don't connect to each other, or the rest of the series. Kathleen Kennedy chose option 2---and THAT is why the sequels sucked so much.
The original trilogy had 3 different directors, and a bunch of different writers, and most people seem to agree that they're pretty good. Meanwhile the prequels were all written and directed by George Lucas and they were widely hated for years. To be clear, I don't like the sequels. But they had more problems than the director shuffle.
@@matthewpelletier6900that's true. What they needed overall was a cohesive plan that connected all three movies together, while still respecting the storylines of past episodes. George Lucas had a great plan for the sequels, but episode seven was just a nonsensical repeat of episode four. If Disney wanted strong female characters, they could've had plenty of them within the already existing canon.
@@matthewpelletier6900 thats pretty interesting, george was one who directed ep 4. though the OT being good was never always the case. before RotJ ESB was not liked by fans but afterwards people appreciated EMS bc of RotJ. in some instances people didn't like RotJ but overall the trilogy turned into the icon it is today.
Option 2 could´ve worked if all 3 directors wanted to work together but Rian Johnson had to do his own thing throwing out any plotlines left by Jar Jar Abrams and not respecting the wishes of Colin Trevorrow (f.e. not killing off Luke). Mind you the ST still wouldn´t have been great because there was no plan behind it but you could´ve salvaged it from being a complete mess as it was.
I'm a woman and a fan of Star Wars. I've respected Leia since childhood. I think that what Kennedy and her ilk keep doing hurts women. They give people a bad taste in their mouths in regards to putting female characters in more prominent roles. Female characters need to be well-written. I read one TH-cam comment from a woman who said that portraying female characters as perfect or better than others puts pressure on girls to do the same. That's unrealistic and can lead to insecurities.
Same is true in the sciences. There were proportionately more women in science in the 1980s until the feminist campaigns started up, telling girls that men in science were sexist and that they would have a hard time. Surprise, surprise - girls dropped out and changed subjects in school and the proportions fell - of course, this was men's fault, nothing to do with psychopathic feminists not even understanding their own sex.
Hi Thor, I wasn't a fan of Jyn myself, I think she was a fairly flat and passive protagonist which left me largely indifferent to her throughout Rogue One. But that indifference is what stuck with me, I don't really dislike the character I just don't really care about her. Thats notably different to Rey, where I largely enjoyed her introduction and thought she had a lot of potential in the Force Awakens. Sadly though, they did a terrible job with her in the ensuing films and that like turned to dislike, and now profound disappointment that they're still trying to make her the big character. I think if they were wheeling out a Jyn prequel the response from the fanbase would be the same as the response to Andor... A resounding "Why?". But you're absolutely right, the Disney politicization of Rey means that the dislike for the character has that extra charge to it, which hopefully would translate to low box office numbers.
The Ahsoka vs Rey redemption argument is not comparable. It's easy to make an annoying character not annoying. It's impossible to make a character who is OP, canon breaking, and who tried to replace Luke Skywalker into a something likable.
It's if Ashoka even redeemed for you. I still don't see a point of her existence and they sticking her everywhere annoys me as much as Rey. I guess I need to return my feminist card. And probably my female card too
@@ekaf1735Same, but I had to stop watching The Clone Wars due to her before that supposed redemption happened. For me Ahsoka is all I don’t want in a character and I don’t care that some people say that there was a band aid fix to that.
@@Tomtit_Andy Problen with Ahsoka is that the more important she gets for overall SW Universe the less and less of a character she becomes. Yeah, maybe I can't buy Anakin having a padawan between AoTC and RotS, but I could still enjoy Clone Wars and Rebels because of other characters and some of her storylines. But it's a joke by this point. Writers need to understand that to have a good character you don't need to make them the most important person in the galaxy for the most important characters in the franchize. It's what we have fanfiction for. And If you need this character to talk to [sometimes already dead] Anakin in her story all the time it probably means that you didn't do as a great job with her as you thought. But I agree, at least we can have a discussion about Ahsoka. with Rey I don't even know what to talk about
@@ekaf1735 definitely agree with no need to have Ahsoka THE most important character of the galaxy far far away. It harms to make every her appearance crucial for the fate of the galaxy. The reason why Mandalorian was so good and popular, because first seasons were very grounded and focused.
It's so frustrating how the people at Disney care more about sending messages than making actually good movies with interesting stories and compelling characters. I know it's been like that for a long time now but it's still so infuriating.
If Rey had truly become Luke's apprentice, instead of turning him into an ass and killing him off before trying to shoehorn in Leia as her master even after Carry Fisher's death--she could have been received very differently by the fanbase.
I wish I could throw away $300 million just to spite people. As a feminist, this is a horrible idea. the entire sequel trilogy was horribly mismanaged. And even overlooking Sharmeen's intent to make people unhappy just because she enjoys making people unhappy, she's a documentary director. You don't give a documentary director your $300 million baby of a scifi screenplay. If she really wants to switch from documentarian to fiction director, you would give her something small to cut her teeth on. Because documentaries require a very different style and approach to anything fictional. That's just basic knowledge and commonsense before you consider any outside agenda she may also have.
Sharmeen's comments were in reference to men who perpetrated acid attacks on women in Pakistan...those are the men she wanted to make uncomfortable. Does nobody actually read past headline articles anymore? And Lucas himself approached his films in a documentarian style, so I can see what they may have been aiming for. The problem is that the character just wasn't interesting, and they had three films to try and crack that issue.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicksshe also made another comment about she was finally going to be putting a woman’s mark on SW - many feeling that’s disrespectful to all the women who already have
Well, the sad part is they can do whatever they want. They bought the IP, so they can add unicorns or Donald Duck if they will. If Disney's shareholders don't complain and are happy to throw 300 millions down the gutter, good for them. I'm not gonna pay to see a garbage film with a Star Wars logo on it.
It’s just sad, because there *have* been good female characters in modern Star Wars. Jyn Erso, Hera, Dedra… hell, the Jedi games, especially, have given us arguably some of the best we’ve had in years. But no… I guess we’re all just sexist because they’re going with the Mary Sue character that was incredibly poorly written. Thanks, Kennedy.
Jyn Erso? Meh. Dedra? I’m sorry who is that? Hera? Wasted. Merrin? Wasn’t fleshed out much, but she’s palatable. Cere Junda? Also wasn’t fleshed out much. Same goes with Trilla Suduri.
Mara Jade, Tenel Ka, Jaina Solo, Tahiri Velia, Lumiya, Vegere, Tyria Sarkin, Gara Petothel, Shalla Nelprin, Natasi Daala. Those are just the female characters that immediately occur to me when I think about all that was erased from the end of the EU so we could have this shit trilogy shoveled down our throats.
My interest in Star Wars is no longer as a franchise, it’s more as a piece of history watching how badly a corporation can mess up such a well-beloved franchise and turn their own fans not into haters, but just into apathetic once-fans.
From what I have heard, Marvel and DC also had these kinds of problems in the late 2000s with the third _Spider Man_ movie and _Batman and Robin._ The big difference is that instead of antagonizing people who criticized the films, the directors recognized that they had made serious mistakes and apologized for not making the best stories they could have made.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 Which brings us back to your original comment. Luke in the pre-2014 continuity was still capable of making mistakes even decades after becoming a Jedi, but he never let those mistakes define him.
Man I'm here Super early but since the Sequel Trilogy bombed in the Box Office its because Rey isn't as popular and well liked as Luke Skywalker and Anikan Skywalker she isn't an icon if anything she represents Kathleen Kennedys Power Fantasy of Feminism.
3 highest grossing movies in the franchise (all 3 of which made above $1B) isn’t really what we’d call “bombing at the box office”. Atrocious movies, but they sure made a lot of money
@@Wes_Bradley-TaubnerThe third of which made half of the first movie of the trilogy. It shows a decline in interest, and I don't think as many will fall for it for some Rey movie.
Because to Kennedy, Rey is a symbol. For her she’s a bulwark, she represents the „good fight“. Not doubling down on Rey would mean admitting defeat to people who are pure evil in her eyes.
Yeh, Rey is their New "Disney Princess", this is exactly HOW Disney and ALL of Hollywood envision Rey; and this is the HUGE problem with Hollywood in general, they ALWAYS have to try and dictate and tell all of us how we should behave, and be in society. they absolutely wanted and really just demand we all applaud the character of Rey in the Disney Sequel trilogy. Kathy Kennedy and Iger really, REALLY wanted Rey to be this Feminist Icon! You can guarantee Kathy Kennedy was truly expecting she would be hailed as this like Champion of *Women* in the industry. I've always said Kathleen Kennedy purely sees herself in the Rey character. It's why Rey is written as a mary sue, who can do no wrong and everything comes to her natural, she NEVER "earns" anything. She's like meant to be this like empty place-holder for young girls and young women to see themselves through. 5:00 You're absolutely right thor, Kathy Kennedy simply Will Not pay any attention to all the overwhelming Fan criticism of Rey and how the character simply has not resonated with a majority of the Fans. this is WHY I very much want this Rey Movie to happen! So we can finally put this whole issue to bed and then MOVE ON. If a Rey movie does poorly at the box-office, i mean like "the Marvels" BAD, where it doesn't even recoup it's own budget cost. Or it does as bad as Kathy's Indiana Jones & he Dial of Destiny. I mean that's it by that point, the writing will indeed be on the wall, and that will then prove without a shadow of a doubt that the specific way inwhich they approached the character of "Rey" in the Sequels; was disingenuous, and ultimately Divided Starwars fans. And the character has Not become this symbol of Modern Feminism, to where Women of today look to Rey as this big inspiration. Infact in *Real Life* whenever someone creates a character in a story or movie, that goes on to greatly inspire people, or become cemented into the public zeitgeist, the creator of said character always says things like they NEVER once expected that character to have such the impact it has gone on to have. With Kathy Kennedy and all those arrogant, full of themselves, narcissists in Hollywood, they desperately want their characters to do that and affect the culture; and they ALWAYS FAIL; purely because people in Hollywood are ALL FAKE. they're all a bunch of hypocrites, the amount of people who knew full well, or atleast heard of everything Harvey Weinstein was upto for years, and NO ONE said a damn thing, but just all went about their lives; all scared of risking their own precious careers, and chance to reach the top; and Kathy i think is one of those people, she's been in the industry long enough. I keep hearing many people say how Kathy Kennedy is untouchable in Hollywood because she's got dirt on people, how about SHE herself is just a culpable. But the sheer hypocrisy that they all act like they're soo righteous, virtuous and "Good". When in truth they're really Not! So yeh, that's why Rey is not having the affect they indeed so desperately wanted; because the character herself was created Not from the Modest, humble and honest approach; Not by way of everything George Lucas once said about those who are truly good and are genuinely trying to do *Good* in our world. But Rey was created for all the wrong reasons, by way of Vanity. And Fans, people can see through it all now, they see just how disingenuous Disney and Kathy Kennedy really are.
Because, number 1, they want Rey to be the face of Star Wars whether we like her, or not. Number 2, moving away from the sequels means failure on their part. So instead of moving on to newer things they will shove this down our throats. It sucks. Vince used to do this in the WWE with certain wrestlers. Even if they were getting booed out of the arena. And these news articles are just trying to create, and control the narrative. The whole situation is unfortunate.
Two things: 1. Kennedy is unable to accept the fact that nobody likes her self insert. So she chooses To double down shove it in everyone's faces 2. The people around her even the executives are afraid to tell her no
It’s called being married to and/or doubling down on a bad idea for fear of having to concede it is a bad idea by having to abandon it. They can’t make her appealing, at least not in a short amount of time, without completely overhauling her most prominent qualities.
Because KK is hellbent on pushing her bs down our throats and destroying Star Wars in the process At this point for kk, it’s not about money, it’s about sending a message
Hey Thor, after hearing about how Dave Filoni held a screening of Godzilla Minus one as well as a QnA with the director Takashi Yamazaki and how he was inspired by Star Wars, what would you want to see in a SW movie directed by Yamazaki?
The thing I hate Kennedy/episodes 7-8-9 for are that they went with multiple directors who weren't on the same page and they had nobody willing to be a hardass and hold to a script/story. There were character threads I thought were fine in 7, and the director change from 7 to 8 killed all of those threads.
I agree. 7 is a decent set-up to a new trilogy. 8 is a giant narrative mess. 9 is not actually a real sequel to 8 and if feels like there was a movie between 8 and 9 that should exist to have the story make sense, but does not.
I've never been more apathetic about Star Wars than I am today. And I've loved the franchise for over 47 years. The current Lucasfilm "leadership" have no idea how Star Wars works and until they are gone, the films are going to suffer.
Hey Thor. It was announced as a power play. They have already announced 13 other films that were either cancelled outright, stuck in development limbo, or turned into Disney Plus shows. With this announcement if Iger tries to cancel it he is in danger of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc. By announcing it the media can claim that KK is trying to do something.
The evidence is media literally asking Disney to defend KK and Sharmeen! You're a genius, but it seems like we still can't organise any kind of guerrilla tactics to counter these stupid KK power plays as the fandom. Instead we always take KK's bait.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о The correct tactic is to walk away and accept reality. Star Wars is dead. It isn't coming back. This isn't a situation where they can give us what we want. Carrie is dead. Harrison and Mark are too old to sustain the franchise. And to be blunt the story was told. The EU gave us a fix but even it was repetitious at time. But even if we like the EU they aren't competent or capable of making it as the young generation is psychologically broken and lacks the talent. The best thing we can do is accept that its over and stop talking about it. If we could all actually do this their whole toxic fanboy narrative goes away. The franchise would then fade into obscurity like it is destined to like Flash Gordon before it. Then their investment is worthless.
Jyn made a sacrifice. Narcissists don’t want to celebrate sacrifice. They want to be Mary Sue’s. Overpowered and dominant. And they don’t want to have to work for it.
What I can't figure out, because it was nine years ago, was why They, whoever They are, thought we needed a Feminist icon in SW to begin with? SW was going on quite nicely, minding its own business, with a very successful fan base, enjoying the books and toys that came out. Who decided this was wrong, and why did KK and Company double down on the idea that Luke and Han were so terrible and Leia might as well not be there in their eyes and there had to be some Super Woman to be better than everybody else? Did they send those articles you showed to those magazines to print, or did their reporters come up with the idea that Rey was the Feminist Icon of the century by themselves? Maybe if they had kept their mouths shut until after the trilogy came out, the films might have been received better by unangered fans with pitchforks.
I wonder the same thing, why they can't move on and I do think that is the reason. As much as I want Rey's new movie to be good, I think the damage has been done and they should just leave Rey's story alone. I could ramble about all the great possibilities of continuing her journey, the potential is already wasted by jumping straight to when she is a teacher.
Kathleen Kennedy never understood her role when she worked under George and Steven. Executive Producers manage the overarching logistics, schedule meetings, coordinate asset orders and receipts, securing film locations, ensuring the production is moving ever forward until completion. Logisitics management is an important role in any film production company, which was what she was tasked with; she was never the creative drive behind anything (if she chimed in, and from Steven's accounts, she did a lot, it was often ignored). Fast forward to the present, she still doesn't get it. Yes, she's the head of the subsidiary, but she's not a creative. She's corporate and should be focused on that aspect. Managing production costs, executing proper brand management and promotion, sealing partnerships to secure merchandising agreements and contracts. Like Bob Iger, she believes ushering in some sort of cultural zeitgeist, when in fact, she's deflating Lucasfilm as a whole.
It goes beyond Kennedy not wanting to be seen as admitting defeat. Backing off on Rey would be admitting she had an agenda that her was her priority above and beyond making good Star Wars movies.
I agree with the above assessment in all except one little detail. Unlike Thor , I DO hold a grudge against the ''Rey fans''. They were all happy enough to jump on the bandwagon of abuse back in the day (TLJ day). Now they can see what's coming . This is the end for Star Wars. This is going to be a level indie 5 catastrophic failure . And with that , the game is up. Lucas film will be history and so will the franchise . So , they've had their Star Wars , their regurgitated cartoons and comics . But they won't be getting a whole lot of sympathy from me.
Because Rey is like Helena in Dial of Destiny: KK's stand-in for the movie. A character that is going to erase the past hero and supplant them. KK is flipping the bird at Lucas and Spielberg because they didn't respect her or something. This is KK smashing the patriarchy in her mind. It was Luke's job to restore the Jedi order, so they make him a failure and now they release the next movie and have Rey do that. Everything Anakin and Luke accomplished in past movies is now a Rey accomplishment.
I don't think Kennedy wants to spite the fans, because she doesn't think about the _existing_ fanbase at all. The social media stuff, the headlines and TH-cam videos, that's marketing. She leaves that to people who are paid to deal with it. In the circle of big time executive types that Kennedy does interact with, no one criticizes the sequels. What she does care about is her legacy, like you said. Rey is meant to be her big addition to popular culture, the hero who will not only be up there with Luke Skywalker, but who will replace him in the popular imagination. Through Rey and the sequels, Kennedy is supposed to be the one who opened up Star Wars to new fans who had no entry point into the franchise before. She's supposed to be the one who secured the future of Star Wars in a changing world, saving it from dwindling in popularity as the existing (male, white) fanbase died off. But that didn't happen with the sequels. The box office totals declined with each successive movie, and the merchandising with the new characters didn't sell. Kennedy does see those numbers. She knows that her plan hasn't worked, but probably can't admit it out loud. And if you can't admit you made a mistake there's no way to see what you did wrong. So this new movie is her coming back for a forth time, certain that this time Rey will finally click with audiences and Kennedy's legacy as a successful producer will be secured.
"a lot of people just don't like the character of Rey." what character? that's kind of the point. 3 movies and zero character. fwiw, Luke was just an archetype in SW. but he did develop a character over empire and jedi. but what character? the sequels were so horribly disjointed and unconcerned about character development, and her story arc felt like it was cooked up in a night time drinking game (RoS).
As long as Disney is making films that they know won't be financially successful, but want to continue the story anyway, can we get the third installment in the Tron universe?
OK, hear me out... do you remember the plot of Mel Brooks's The Producers? Maybe it's a shoot-the-moon scenario, but it only works if everything is bad.
As a woman, I've been a Star Wars fan since the prequels. While Leia is not my favorite character, I loved her and wouldn't mind a story about her as the main character. I feel like Jin Arson was kind of a boring character, the reason she isn't disliked is because the movie was mostly very good. If the sequels hadn't sucked, alot of people wouldn't have cared if Rey was as boring as she mostly was. Rey is disliked because she has become a symbol of everything "Sequels". Personality I think any female character no matter, her looks, can be liked if the Story is competently written, Rey was just one boring part of a terribly written trilogy.
Captain Marvel was mostly a meh movie instead of a disaster like TLJ or TROS, yet people still took issue with her boring character, so I disagree. Jyn Erso has a core relationship with her two fathers (one adoptive and one biological) which makes the character more palatable to men. The mystery box with parentage killed Rey. Also Jyn Erso doesn't need to change her surname to Gerrera...
I don't think I've genuinely ever met a single fan of Rey irl. Now, I don't live in New York, or California, or anywhere with some extremely dense population. But I've spoken to people on both sides of the cultural and political spectrum, nobody likes Rey. Even one of my former co-workers, who was probably one of the biggest "pro disney star wars" fans I knew, who was hyped as hell for Rise of Skywalker, didn't care about Rey. Said co-worker was a woman as well, likely fitting all the checkmarks for a theoretical Rey "demographic". Yet, she never liked Rey, not even in TFA. Her main complaint being the cardinal sin of any fictional character; she thought Rey was boring. (Also, for those curious, I remember her saying her favorite characters were Darth Maul and Kylo. I think she has a type. But this was also back in 2019 when TROS came out, so who knows if she's changed her mind)
Unless George specifically produced or endorsed it, it’s all fanfic bs- that being said, with the exception of Rogue One, everything Disney Star Wars has made me want to cry, and the rumors of this new movie are cringe worthy- especially about phasing out anything that has to do with the Lucas SW, which just doesn’t make sense- I even heard that writer originally was getting input from Lucas himself and he got in a big argument with Chinoy which led to erasing anything Skywalker- and I may be wrong but I think I could have been more accepting of Rey if they had just made her Luke’s daughter, especially when according to George Luke became the greatest Jedi ever
Disney wants to be successful but only on their terms. Eventually, once they loose enough money and enough time has passed as to allow them to gloss over their failure, they will reluctantly give the fans what they want.
You know, there is mass effect. We have Shepard. You chose M or F. And what I wanna say that if it written good - M or F really doesn't matter. You just enjoying playing and get exited to learn more.
I could have withstood and accepted Rey if they didn't have to build her up by tearing down Luke. For me anyway, that was the biggest middle finger Kennedy gave to us with her agenda movies. It's very similar to those very bad sitcoms where the women are smart and competent and the men are all clueless and reprehensible.
The main thing about Rey, she’s just, above all, a boring character the way they’ve written her; but it really wouldnt take too much to make her great But that would require Lucasfilm giving her flaws and actively making her address and overcome them with tribulations, and that’s just simply not allowed anymore it seems
My thoughts on Rey: Wasted Potential. Much like most of the Sequels. I don't hate her, because that would require her to elicit an emotion from me, and she just.... doesn't. She's boring.
Rey could have been, SHOULD have been a great character. But now, even if you made a Rey movie that was an amazingly great Star Wars movie, I don't believe the fans would accept it. Accepting Rey as a good character now, after the Last Jedi, means accepting Luke as that wild-eyed man about to murder his own nephew. It means accepting Luke as the guy who tosses away his lightsaber, not to reject fighting with anger and hate and claim his place among the Jedi (and inspire even his Dark Side corrupted father to find the spark of light within his own soul) but to reject his responsibility as a Jedi to stand against the darkness overrunning the Galaxy and train new generations of Jedi. It means accepting the the Jedi were outmoded and should be largely forgotten, maybe (I think the symbolism of Yoda burning down the tree with those ancient Jedi texts was kinda undone by Rey having squirreled away those books on the Falcon - TLJ was always stepping on its own themes because RJ is a VERY BAD screenwriter). The Last Jedi DESTROYED Luke Skywalker, and accepting Rey now means hating Luke as much as Rian Johnson (and Kennedy) apparently did - and I don't think Star Wars fans will go down that path.
i remember reading article about the 10 most hated star wars characters and on the list was jyn erso which surprised me quite a bit (she was mid to begin with but got quite a bit better by the ending, i dont think people hated her character, at the very most: flat and boring). however i knew why they put her on list bc "sHe Is A WoMeN, ThErEfORe She Is HaTeD" shitfuckery
It seems to me, based on the pace of Rey's learning disability, that KKK intended to do 6 or 7 movies with Rey. But she was disappointed that her message didn't reach all the women, and now, she may be considering, what bits of Rey's storyline can be left for comics, novelizations, and cameos. Thinking about condensing it down to just the key plot points, like Lucas did, when he was in a similar situation with the prequels on either side of the Clone Wars. It is also possible to dislike Rey's character, and not be too thrilled with her storyline, while still wanting more of it, which is what I hope for - something that is clever enough, not to talk down to the audience, while also being simplified enough, to help them understand the purpose and plot of the ST. Make them realize what they watched. I fully believe Disney paid Mark Hamill to spit on the movies, because it gratifies her sexual feminism to make you manbaby, and the Story Group benefits from this as well, because you don't want to believe that Rey can make all the most evil shit happen, and pull no end of cardboard monsters out of her ass, just by wishing for "being important somebody" (maybe even because you don't want to believe, that Luke or the Mortis Gods made the Throne Room scene happen, by Luke wishing for it, and maybe even Yoda made the Sith return, by "wishing" or rather fearing, that he would be a failure) - and because you don't want to believe it's true, they make you prove it's true - that's how liberty dies, to a thunderous applause. Just like how Lucas made you side with the Rebels, to prove to you that America were the bad guys in the Vietnam War (business as usual), which you also didn't want to believe. Here's what the leak suggested: - Plagueis has somehow returned (he was ashes in an urn in RotS) - to manipulate the midi-chlorians, to create... life. - Rey is pregnant or a mother (immaculate, or by way of Force Dildo), and is killed by her son - Rey failed to destroy the Dyad by murdering Ben Solo? What I'd amend: - No one can kill Rey, she is too powerful. Except maybe Dark Rey from the other timeline, but that will become Abeloth, or maybe her son. Or maybe herself. - Rey Palpatine asked the fake Rey From Nowhere, if she had fixed the timeline now, and Rey FN(2187) confirmed it, "I am Rey Skywalker!" - Luke created/rebuilt the Astral Projection spell, by being dead the whole time, like Qui-Gon built Force Ghost. Now Rey will use that magic, to impregnate/unalive herself, by creating Force Dildo, and then the Force Pokéjedi: Luke, Leia, Ben and Rey Skywalker, that not only fight, but also work like spell-rosters (Luke for acrobatics, Leia for protection/healing, Ben for insight/anti-deception, Rey for speed/time, etc.)
If they’re going to bring anyone back it should be Finn & Poe. They were poorly developed, but at least there’s untapped potential there. Plus they’re played by charismatic actors. Send them on a Sci-Fi Buddy Action adventure together
I never disliked Ahsoka. But I was a bit perplexed that Anakin was given a padawan. I quite liked Rey (and Finn and Poe) in the first movie, but now I don't want to be reminded of any aspect of the sequels. Which is why I'm not too excited about future StarWars projects, because the canon is set in stone now.
I’ve never understood this argument that Star Wars is sexist or misogynistic, or that those are traits in the fandom because of Star Wars itself. Star Wars has always been relatively progressive with its view of women: they can vote, hold public office, work in most occupations, can become military leaders and commanders, as well as foot soldiers and pilots, and have essentially the exact same rights and privileges as men. Granted some societies in Star Wars are patriarchal, but there are also matriarchal societies as well (The Nightsisters and Hapes Consortium, for example) Heck, Mon Mothma, Leia Organa, Ysanne Isard, Mara Jade, and Natasi Daala were all women who were also some of the most powerful and influential individuals in the galaxy. We don’t hate women for being in places of power in Star Wars. IMO, Rey could’ve easily been a beloved and respected character had she been written better. Instead, she became little better than a plot device and an extraordinarily confusing and boring character.
I would rather see a movie about Fennec Shand than about Rey. Ming-Na Wen is already a proven quantity as a strong female action hero (Agents of Shield, etc) and she was the best part of that Boba Fart series when it came to acting.
I don’t understand the first question. I remember back when rogue one first came out Jyn Erso being a bad character was one of the big issues people had with Rogue one. That she was flat and didn’t have her own agency.
The only thing Rey had was a premise, not a character. I actually think its perfectly fine to introduce feminist ideas, but it needs to be accompanied by actually good writing and story, not be the be all end all. Edit: It doesnt help they did a terrible job at even the feminism stuff, since Rey only has overwhelming power and supposed righteousness, yet she lacks any heroic traits such as self sacrifice, humility, and actual compassion. Strength is shown when someone overcomes genuine physical, mental, and emotional obstacles which push them to their limits, not just getting through everything with ease.
One of the things that makes me feel negatively towards the sequels and their characters is the way they turned the original three heroes into pathetic stereotypes in order to give room to their own characters. Princess Leia would undoubtedly have loved her son, but she wouldn’t become a whiny old emotional weakling that she was portrayed as in TFA. I get frustrated that they feel they have to try and make out that she was only ever a damsel in distress and ignore the fact that she took charge the second she was on the screen. Han, Luke and Chewie would have been captured in the detention centre (conveniently) had it not been for her. Only rant over. Sorry.
While I don't 'like' Rey, I don't dislike her either. I think there's potential there if they learn and grow from the complaints, which they /can/ do. And I think by focusing on her rebuilding the Jedi Order from the start, there is a chance to do something more interesting than Empire 3.0. I get why TFA did it, but there are alternatives. I also think moving Star Wars forward is better than keeping it trapped in the Prequels --> Sequels Skywalker Era. (And I'm including the Filoniverse in that.) (And I know about The Acolyte being set outside of that time, but that's an anomaly.) Though if we're being honest, the real win would be a Finn project. I don't know if Boyega is 100% not interested or if they just don't think people would go for that even if he's the one done most dirty by the sequels.
The weird thing is, I don't exactly hate Rey either. The thing I can say in her favour is that, unlike Carol Danvers or Michael Burnham, she never really comes across as arrogant or overly cocky, or that she considers herself to be better or smarter than anyone else. Infact, half the time she appears rather afraid out by her power she herself doesn't really seem to understand. Like when she lifts these rocks at the end of TLJ, she almost looks freaked out. And Ridley has a certain likeability the actresses of the aforementioned characters lack and that likeability carries over to Rey. Meaning that I probably would look forward to a Rey-Movie with her playing the Character had it been better handled, better set up by the preceding Sequel Trilogy. Say, suppose the New Jedi Order set up after ROTJ had been alive and well at the start of Episode VII and Rey had joined it in that movie and the Trilogy had ended with her being awarded the Rank of Master, I *would* be interested seeing her leading the Order *Luke founded* forward into a new Era. Alas, TFA started with the Order gone again and I don't find the prospect of Rey doing what I wanted Luke to do very appealing.
It’s a bit like when they made doctor who a woman. All the reviews were about “the doctor is now a woman” not a single one of them talked about the story and writing which was, to put it bluntly, laughingly bad
The most culturally pernicious thing about Rey isn’t that she’s a “feminist” icon; it’s that she’s specifically an icon of the corporate girlboss 2010’s kind of Hillary Clinton feminism that nobody else (including other feminists) actually likes or respects. There’s zero room for valid criticism, zero room to point out that they’re not actually accomplishing anything impressive. It’s the kind of understanding of female characters which is the worst possible combination of mediocrity with unassailable self-confidence.
Just gonna say this. To those reading this or watching this video or many others like it. You’re part of the problem. Let me explain. When videos like this get made not just Thor Skywalker. I’m talking about the many others as well. Critical drinker. Mauler. Tyrone magnus. Stupendous wave. 100 percent Star Wars, Star Wars theory, Endymion, etc, etc etc. you are giving them free marketing. As you make your Star Wars content because you made your career around it, or touching base on it. Many thousands or millions will watch it. And it’s because it’s Star Wars. Despite what you say or cover in your videos. Those people will still watch it. Because it’s Star Wars. Despite how divisive last Jedi was to the fanbase it still made 1.3 billion dollars. Even though I consider rise of Skywalker the worst out of the three. Still made a billion. Lost some viewers for Star Wars shows and only solo lost money? Thats nothing. Star Wars is one of the biggest fanbases of entertainment. That even though people like Thor Skywalker or Star Wars theory talk about this. They will still watch it. They will cover it and explain it. In how it’s good or bad. And good chance their fans will watch it. So what are you really accomplishing here other than making more content for your TH-cam channel? Nothing. Like I said they count on channels like this because it’s free marketing. There is only one solution to fix this or to send a message and it’s not making 10 min to 5 hour long videos how it can be better or fixed. Stop watching. Stop talking about it. Stop giving this company your time or money. And this has to be done my millions upon millions of fans because there are those that will still watch it despite its controversy because.. It’s Star Wars.
It's because Disney is getting such large amounts of funding from Black Rock that it doesn't matter if they make flops; it only matters if they push propaganda.
It’s beautiful that KK hired an activist director to make a movie with a character that only activists want to be made (not to watch, just get made). There is no more women lead hiding in the bushes any more like Reva hiding behind Obi Wan, Bo-Katan hiding behind Mando, Woman Loki behind real Loki, America Chavez behind Doctor Strange, Kate Bishop behind Hawkeye… You cannot make an IP your own, IPs are fans property. There is a reason that men are more interested in Marvel, Star Wars and sports than women. You just get nothing when you artificially want to change that
As soon as KK heard that the "toxic" youtubers were having a field day with the news of the Rey movie getting delayed/cancelled she threw a hissy fit and insisted that Lucasfilm make the Rey movie happen! She wants to BRAND Star Wars on the forehead with the "Force is Female" and make sure to "make men feel uncomfortable" with her new pet director! It's just KK's petty EGO self-insert of Rey that is gonna cost Disney hundreds of millions of dollars! This movie will TANK even worse than Indy 5 which KK already destroyed using Phoebe Waller-Bridge as her agent of Ultra WOKE Feminism!
It also could have been that they market tested the character from the films and found that multiple test groups liked the character even if not the story…which is kind of how most modern studios research audiences for their products.
I really hate to be this guy, but I think if I saw Kathleen Kennedy in person, I’d prolly scream at her. I was 12 when TFA came out. I loved it. Then the next two movies came out, ruining the chance to see my favourite characters stories come to an end in a decent manner. Completely let me down.
Kathleen answered this question herself ... After South Park - into the Panderwerse was released ... or some time around that event, Kathleen released a statement that this thing feels like pure assault on everything she tryed to achieve, and (i only paraphrase) "from now on she will double her fight against the patriarchy, rather than submit". So yeah ... its just stubborness. She is simply ready and willing to fight ... no matter if there is any real enemy, or its all just in her own head.
Because the actress has about 30 year of career left, and disney want to milk it? Daisy ridley is fantastic, i want to see more of her. They just need to write rey as an interesting character really, and stop making star wars films as stupid disconnected mystery box messes. And fans need to stop looking for deeper meaning in star wars - its not about feminism or really politics at all beyond "oppression bad, freedom good, group of friends adventure time!", and it works best when thats the core of it.
The Devil's sin: pride. Not doubling down on Rey is admiting she fucked up big time, and her ego can't have that. That's what Star Wars has become, a playground for bratty kids with a lot of money involved.
I wish I could argue with this, but you're right on point.
Why for them Rey is a feminist's icon? When she forgives Kylo Ren and fallen in love with him, that aspect is pretty anti-feminist, and only leave Rey as a character who suffered from stockolm syndrome, at the same level as Anastasia Steel or the main character from 350 days.
This is about pride of KK and other Disney execs, not Daisy Ridley. Rey itself wasn't Daisy's product, she was the vessel for Rey.
Bingo
You're absolutely right. That trilogy was ruined by ego and arrogance. I'm sure KK, JJ and RJ were all convinced that they could do better than George Lucas. They still probably think that. And let's not forget the role of stupidity. How on Earth could you put 4 billions on the table for a trilogy and not plan ahead what's gonna happen? They disrespected Lucas and SW fans. They're never gonna see my money again.
They forgot the one most important element. Make her a great character. Make her worth following.
Oddly... I feel Like Reva was more relevant... Neither are good, but she was more groundbreaking as a terrible character.
Nope. She has to be lame and gay.
I bypassed the character arc!
They didn't forget. They never cared
@@MildandLazyGuylol there was no character arc for Rey.Need a character for that and not just a cardboard cutout
Leia Organa, in the VERY first Star Wars film, picks up a stormtrooper blaster the MOMENT her cell is opened and fires off , probably, the most shots out of the trio in the escape. She also comes up with the plan to escape through the trash compactor if I remember correctly.
Padme Amidala isn't just THE queen of Naboo, but she FREQUENTLY outsmarts not just her enemies but her OWN allies by disguising herself as a handmaiden, leads the assault on the palace and captures Nute Gunray. In the second movie, she AGAIN outsmarts her enemies by disguising herself as a fighter pilot escort for the senator, flies ANAKIN to Tatooine AND Geonosis as a way to loophole the Council's orders so that they can do what ANAKIN has to do while asuaging his fears about his mother and save his master (meaning SHE has the power and willingly chooses Anakin's course of action), and is THE FIRST of the three at the execution to break free and fight back during their execution.
But no, Rey is the first feminist icon in Star Wars.
Leia: "Into the garbage-shute, flyboy!"
Han: "No reward is worth this!"
In the sense of ideologically feminist, Rey is partly the first. I actually wouldn't call Leia or Padme feminist characters because neither embody belief in patriarchy or the Marxist oppressor/oppressed dynamic.
The reason I would not call Rey a fully feminist character is because she does not treat all men as enemies or inferiors but also has the capacity to be kind to others beyond just a facade as well as still needing help (not always but there were occasions).
Fully feminist characters, such as Asoka (from the recent series), The Madalorian's boss-bitch and above all Captain Marvel and Galadriel (RoP) lack empathy, limits or growth - basically goddesses incarnate.
This is not to say that Rey does not embody some feminist traits of storytelling (the assumption of powers compared with learning/earning these and the ultimate refusal of emotional and sexual relationships with any men) but that we might look at her character as corrupted but not wholy. Honestly, the reason why Rey still has a sort of following is because of her film relationship with Ben Solo (because lots of female fans love love/redemption stories) which does give her character a bit more humanity than most feminist icons.
My thoughts anyway.
Not to mention Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Tahiri Veila and all the women of the EU, who KK pretends didn’t even exist, saying “there was no source material.”
why do people see that scene as positive. she almost got them all killed. R2 saved them.
@@ardendragoon Well, if you look at the tactical situation, the party were stuck in a corridor with the known exit blocked by Stormtroopers, so to stay put was to run down the odds until a Stormtrooper shot would hit one of the four characters.
Therefore, Leia's move of blasting open the grate and laterally exiting the corridor made sense because it resolved the unwinnable situation. That it ended up in a garbage compressor was not a certain outcome as they could have ended up in a sorting or storage room/bin and made their way out. The crusher scene added an extra layer of comedy and horror as well as defusing the possibility of the princess being omnipotent (as the move did almost end up killing them) and deepens the tension between Han and Leia.
I knew KK disrespected the fan base when she cut off the expanded universe but now I know she absolutely hates the fan base based on her actions and agendas.
Lucas would have done it before if he went through with his sequels
@@EternalEmperorofZakuul *I doubt it.*
Edit: OH WAIT, you mean get rid of the Expanded Universe! Okay, I agree with that, good ol' George always had a peeve against the EU, which is kinda sad.
@@MrDibarahis sequel trilogy would have gotten rid of thrawn
@@EternalEmperorofZakuul Now this is very true. I remember him wishing the original films before the redos would vanish.
@@EternalEmperorofZakuul Yeah, sorry, I misunderstood your comment. 😅
One aspect of Disney Star Wars which I don't think gets talked about nearly enough is jealousy. I truly believe that when Disney first acquired the rights to SW, they set out to create a series of films which would essentially replace the OT in the minds of the fans. Going forward, they wanted the IP to be Disney SW and not Lucas SW. Look at how they treated most of the legacy characters from the OT - Han is unceremoniously killed off, Luke's character is completely trashed, Chewie becomes Rey's sidekick. Only Leia comes out halfway decently as a mentor figure. The Disney theme parks also lean heavily into the ST (Galactic Star Cruiser anyone). I think it really rankles the folks at Disney that people still love the OT more than their own IP, and that the Rey movies are another poke in the eye for the people who "refuse to let go" of the past.
I agree with all of this except Leia being handled half-decent. I put her equally as bad as Luke, just all of her trashing happened off-screen because she was a tertiary character at best till after the actress died
@@M-elephant7777 Leia turning into a god sort of killed any respect I had for their handling of her. The space scene still has me so confused.
I disagree about Leia. A. Mary Poppins in Space B. Their is a line in Last Jedi where either Holdo or Leia explains that flying to Crayt was something she/Leia would´ve done as well which is a horrible plan and shows Leia as a crappy General. She comes off as really incompetent for someone who was a good planer and tacticion in the OT.
I think the same way about how Star Trek was handled since 2017: I honestly believe that one of the reasons why _Discovery_ is chronologically set before _The Original Series_ is because some people involved in its production think TOS is outdated and *problematic* and needs to be overwritten and replaced. They eventually figured out that this was a bad movie, thats why they set later Seasons of the Series in the far future, thats why its spin-off _Strange New Worlds_ has been tapping into TOS design-wise much more than DISC has.
Except they have done this to their own products as well (see The Little Mermaid and Snow White).
Not jealously but *aufhaben* or creative destruction (see Marxism) - the aim is to destroy the old arts and stories and replace or reform these on new modern "moral" lines.
These are religious zealots.
Even though Jyn Erso isn't a fully fleshed out character, at least she isn't made out to be better than everyone without explanation. she's still miles better than Rey. From petty criminal to a Rebel.
Nobody called her a Mary Sue is because she isn't one.
The only good thing from Ray for me is that she made me appreciate other female characters in star wars like leia Ashoka, cere Merrin, trilla, padme, etc…
@@Milothemighty10 There have been plenty of female characters in Star Wars I grew up with, but according to these dummies at Disney, I'm sexist for not liking lame characters like Rey.
@@dereklopez9060 I guess they do that because people don’t like the sequels and anyone who hates them is toxic or something. I’m still doing my Star Wars chronological rewatch all the way from Phantom Menace to Ahsoka yesterday I finished up a new Hope and more than ever I was reminded why I love Star Wars..
But Jyn’s dead so they can’t make a follow up movie for her.
Jyn is teasing mary sue-ness, but I get what you're saying. It seems a lot less like the world bends to her.
Because Kennedy has an ego the size of Jupiter. She can't accept her perfect little character is and always be hated. She will make you love her, no matter how much money she has to burn to do it.
“The main thing is is to protect these characters make sure that they continue to live in the way you created them” this is a quote from an interview Kennedy had with George Lucas himself promising. The original trilogy characters would be honored under Disney, but we all know how that turned out…
@@Milothemighty10 Whenever that clip comes up, I nearly lose my mind with anger. How dare you sit there and tell the man who gave her job his work will be resepcted while knowing she wasn't going to
@@zw246 I really don’t get how people can defend the sequels a let alone her after stuff like that came out…
@@Milothemighty10 The Shills on social media scream and when you point out the bad writing, lore breaking logic, they just scream. They've found Disney pays people to troll social media. It's very sad
Her ego might actually be the size of those super Jupiter exoplanets.
When TFA came out, I really loved Rey and for me as a female fan she WAS important. Not because she was the first female protagonist in SW (she wasn't!) but because for the first time we saw a female JEDI on the big screen that wasn't just background decoration. As I love Jedi, this was a really big thing to me and I felt quite protective of Rey, even defended her.
But then came TLJ and I realized that they were trying to make Rey look better at the expense of Luke, taking away all of Luke's accomplishments and handing them to Rey. This was the moment when I started to despise Rey for being a Mary Sue.
I assume you mean she was the first female LEAD in a Star Wars film. She absolutely wasn't the first female protagonist.
That's what I meant. She wasn't the first female protagonist. Leia was. I just wanted to refer to what is often said about Rey in the media and stress that this was not the reason why I originally liked her. I edited my original post to make it clearer what I meant.
@@marajade9879People like you are crucial to the fanbase, as your points cause the rather flimsy claims about "all _Star Wars_ fans being sexist" to fall apart. Despite what _The Big Bang Theory_ went to extreme lengths to claim, there are plenty of woman who are _Star Wars_ fans, and many of them also take issue with their representation being written badly.
@Daniel_Huffman , exactly! We female fans love to see characters that represent us, but not if they're written badly! I don't want to be fooled by writers who have no idea where their story is going and are changing around Rey's backstory as they see fit. And I also don't want to see my hero Luke being out of character!
@@marajade9879 My personal rule is this:
"We don't need strong female characters. We need strong characters who happen to be female."
Essentially, unless the character's gender is important to their story, such as Mulan in the original 1998 animated film, their personality and traits should be written before their gender. Many of the characters who pass this test were written out of inspiration rather than obligation, and the writers of said stories were not under the pressure of corporate deadlines.
Part of me has this conspiracy theory that Lucasfilm is perfectly happy with female characters and racially diverse characters being written badly, since no matter how well-constructed a criticism against them is, all Lucasfilm has to do is call the people making these claims misogynistic, and they don't get taken seriously.
I have decided to refer to this as a "Rey shield."
Watching Disney handle Star Wars is like watching a friend drink and insist on driving home. We all know how this will end but we cant stop it from happening. We can't take the keys away from Disney.
Lucasfilm is probably the drunk friend in this scenario, while Disney is just the irresponsible parent or guardian who cares more about their drunk child getting them home rather than the obvious risks present in it. The corporation is not going to care about how Lucasfilm writes _Star Wars,_ but rather how much money it makes.
The decline of this franchise is a sad reflection of how Disney itself has declined in recent years. It's kind of sad that _this_ is what Walt Disney's legacy is turning into.
@@Daniel_HuffmanDisney bought the booze and pays off the police in this scenario
At this point it is like watching necrophilia!
Because she's the self insert of KK
KK wishes she was half as forgivable as Rey. I can forgive Rey to an extent because she’s a mere caricature with no will of her own written so horribly, KK on the other hand actively chooses the wrong things possible.
What kk did is really impressive: she took literally every IP lucasfilm had, burned them to the ground and peed on the ashes.
She could always turn her flaming eye toward the old LucasArts IPs like Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island.
I dont think its impressive. Breaking something is always easier than creating something (especially something GOOD), like Lucas did with the ot and the prequels.
@@abraham2172 Key word here is sarcasm or, rather, "impressive" with a strongly negative connotation.
Remember when people didn't like Jar Jar so Lucas reluctantly backed him out of the spotlight in the next two movies? Learn from that
And he was finally able to get him to work in the Clone Wars.
A better approach would have been to simply have the character grow up a little more and become more likeable. Just shuffling the character off the stage felt like exactly what it was: damage control, rather than a creative choice.
Lucas learned nothing. He put Jar Jar in the next two movies to spite the fan base as Jar Jar was only supposed to be in the first movie. Lucas throwing a fit over the fans not liking the Prequels is the reason he sold to Disney. He couldn't accept he was wrong.
Honestly, I think it's more of combination of all the comments in this thread. Yes, pulling Jar Jar out was damage control and Lucas didn't like it but he probably didn't see any other option at that point. Now, Lucas had a plan for the prequels that Jar Jar already had a role in. Him being mad at the rejection of the character can be true. Episode 3, I don't remember Jar Jar having any lines, he just hung out in the background. Episode 2 was the second chance, I don't think Jar Jar was originally suppose to give the speech about adopting the clone army. Would have made a little more sense if someone else had done so. That move might have Lucas's middle finger there.
@@Banzai51 You sure that was Lucas' intent, and not projection on your part, as well as certain "fans"?
I don't think I ever seen anyone with a bigger chip on their shoulders than Prequel haters. Heck most of you cheered for TFA, despite it was of lesser quality not only to the OT, but lesser to even the PT.
I'd rather not take movie notes from amateurs who don't even know basic filmmaking techniques coughChrisStuckmanncough coughRLMcoughcough.
It’s classic hubris. Instead of admitting to the mistake, one doubles down on the lie. We’ve seen this over and over again with politicians, kings, celebrities. It’s only when their entire ego has been dismantled-usually in a very public way-that they finally admit their folly.
They NEVER admit their folly
Rey is Kennedy. Rey is literally just Kennedy inserting herself into Star Wars. This is why she wont be dropped. The background narrative to Kennedy is that she feels slighted for her artistic skills during her rise being seen a purely business person, SHE is no body just like Rey.
She was a 'fetch the coffee girl' who married a famous director and got producer credits to prop up her reputation on great movies made by far more brilliant minds than her!
Bo-Karen is more accurate self-insert of KK: the privileged, powerful, spoiled villain who keeps failing upwards and never faces any consequences for her evil deeds.
@@Mouse_Metal that's actually a pretty big reach-- and I despise that you just made me say anything that could be misinterpreted as defense for KK-- whom I view as having done the most damage to Star Wars out of anyone by far.
Bo Katan experiences all kinds of downfalls throughout her arc that began in TCW. The problems with her character are more just broad issues with the writing for The Mandalorian-- which is the most overrated piece of garbage series in Star Wars. It's not the worst of them-- it's just the most undeservedly praised for being good when it's mostly trash in its entirety-- with or without the Boba show's weird crossover.
Even so-- we still see Bo Katan at one of her lowest points in that show, having lost everything and a complete failure-- and fully self-aware of this. That's a far cry from the atrociously inhuman writing for Rey's character-- and Bo Katan existed long before KK usurped her way onto the scene.
You ascribing that all to Bo Katan is just you getting ragebaited by some of the shittier Star Wars creators. I agree that events in Mando following her are not logical-- but overall her character has been well fleshed out and she has certainly experienced downfalls and redemptions throughout her existence as a character.
@@dh1148ify I didn´t mean to say K-K. wrote this pseudocharacter this way, I wanted to say she is the most accurate representation of K.K.
Felony is fully responsible for the atrocious writing around this pseudocharacter since TCW, which is the most overrated crappy series ever.
Bo-Karen is the most evil character in SW except of Palpatine. Stop making excuses for that monster who t0rched and ensl4ved innocent villagers, se*ually abused minors, terr0rized her homeworld to usurp power and establish a warmongering dictatorship of the same type the Death Watch established on that planet where they oppressed the native villagers, she wanted her own sister dead and then lied about it when her plan No.1 failed and played a victim.
She has never paid for her atrocities, everyone else around her suffers because of her but she is always fine like a Mary Sue she is, bending the plot around herself.
She keeps failing upwards and everyone praises her and selectively forgets how she treated them.
Bo-Karen totally deserved to be abandoned by her goons. She has never deserved to have any goons in the first place because she betrayed her own creed the moment it stopped being profitable to her.
After she lost her goons in S3 I thought they are going to fix the terrible writing of TCW and Rebels where that sociopathic, narcissistic monster is glorified and put into power because the script says so (because Felony loves this trash Mary Sue too much). Even the Mando-centric episodes in BOBF suggested the karma is finally comming for her.
But no. Her insults, whining, blaming everyone except of herself and doing NOTHING when Din - the f-ing Mandalore by the ownership of the dakrsaber - comes to her and asks for help, is so disgusting I don´t even have words for it. That entitled, self-absorbed, spoiled brat can´t even sit like a decent human being.
She has been lying to Din and using him since the moment in S2 where her Sidekick spied on him, so she could "help" him later and make him feel obliged to help her on her mission. She changed the terms of their deal on the way, lied about the darksaber being "rightfully hers" and when Din really needed her help to save Grogu form Gideon she insulted him and Boba and joined the rescue mission only to get the darksaber.
Her behavior is consistently insufferable and infuriating, including the narcissistic body language and facial expressions.
And I am supposed to root for her and feel sorry for her?
S3 was such an absurd glorification of that evil Mary Sue and it was so obviously rewitten to hammer that villain into Din´s rightful pIace I didn´t even finish it and went to write my own S3 and I´m done with Felony, Crapleen and DiSSney and their whaamen can do nuthing wrong pr0pagand4.
@@dh1148ify Blocked. Obvious troll is obvious and your moral compass is so broken it explains why you can only use lies and manipulations to defend a VILLAIN who has never done anything to redeem herself. Anyone can watch the stuff with Bo-Karen and see the truth for themselves.
Also, personal insults towards me don´t make your crappy post better, it just proves you have nothing to say, so you insult and lie.
It's KK's power fantasy. That's what Rey represents. She fits her narrative and vision for HER SW, with KK at the helm.
Option 1: Use George Lucas' blueprint for the sequels and hire one director with a broad vision for well-connected storylines through three different movies.
Option 2: Throw that blueprint away. Hire three directors who want to do things their own way and wind up with three movies that don't connect to each other, or the rest of the series.
Kathleen Kennedy chose option 2---and THAT is why the sequels sucked so much.
The original trilogy had 3 different directors, and a bunch of different writers, and most people seem to agree that they're pretty good. Meanwhile the prequels were all written and directed by George Lucas and they were widely hated for years.
To be clear, I don't like the sequels. But they had more problems than the director shuffle.
@@matthewpelletier6900that's true. What they needed overall was a cohesive plan that connected all three movies together, while still respecting the storylines of past episodes. George Lucas had a great plan for the sequels, but episode seven was just a nonsensical repeat of episode four. If Disney wanted strong female characters, they could've had plenty of them within the already existing canon.
@@matthewpelletier6900 thats pretty interesting, george was one who directed ep 4. though the OT being good was never always the case. before RotJ ESB was not liked by fans but afterwards people appreciated EMS bc of RotJ. in some instances people didn't like RotJ but overall the trilogy turned into the icon it is today.
Option 2 could´ve worked if all 3 directors wanted to work together but Rian Johnson had to do his own thing throwing out any plotlines left by Jar Jar Abrams and not respecting the wishes of Colin Trevorrow (f.e. not killing off Luke). Mind you the ST still wouldn´t have been great because there was no plan behind it but you could´ve salvaged it from being a complete mess as it was.
I'm a woman and a fan of Star Wars. I've respected Leia since childhood. I think that what Kennedy and her ilk keep doing hurts women. They give people a bad taste in their mouths in regards to putting female characters in more prominent roles. Female characters need to be well-written. I read one TH-cam comment from a woman who said that portraying female characters as perfect or better than others puts pressure on girls to do the same. That's unrealistic and can lead to insecurities.
Characters like Rey already are born out of their creators insecurities.
Same is true in the sciences. There were proportionately more women in science in the 1980s until the feminist campaigns started up, telling girls that men in science were sexist and that they would have a hard time. Surprise, surprise - girls dropped out and changed subjects in school and the proportions fell - of course, this was men's fault, nothing to do with psychopathic feminists not even understanding their own sex.
Hi Thor, I wasn't a fan of Jyn myself, I think she was a fairly flat and passive protagonist which left me largely indifferent to her throughout Rogue One. But that indifference is what stuck with me, I don't really dislike the character I just don't really care about her. Thats notably different to Rey, where I largely enjoyed her introduction and thought she had a lot of potential in the Force Awakens. Sadly though, they did a terrible job with her in the ensuing films and that like turned to dislike, and now profound disappointment that they're still trying to make her the big character.
I think if they were wheeling out a Jyn prequel the response from the fanbase would be the same as the response to Andor... A resounding "Why?". But you're absolutely right, the Disney politicization of Rey means that the dislike for the character has that extra charge to it, which hopefully would translate to low box office numbers.
The Ahsoka vs Rey redemption argument is not comparable. It's easy to make an annoying character not annoying. It's impossible to make a character who is OP, canon breaking, and who tried to replace Luke Skywalker into a something likable.
It's if Ashoka even redeemed for you. I still don't see a point of her existence and they sticking her everywhere annoys me as much as Rey. I guess I need to return my feminist card. And probably my female card too
@@ekaf1735Same, but I had to stop watching The Clone Wars due to her before that supposed redemption happened. For me Ahsoka is all I don’t want in a character and I don’t care that some people say that there was a band aid fix to that.
Ahsoka was and is a character. Annoying, bad or good, but she is a character. Rey is a message, a statement.
@@Tomtit_Andy Problen with Ahsoka is that the more important she gets for overall SW Universe the less and less of a character she becomes. Yeah, maybe I can't buy Anakin having a padawan between AoTC and RotS, but I could still enjoy Clone Wars and Rebels because of other characters and some of her storylines. But it's a joke by this point. Writers need to understand that to have a good character you don't need to make them the most important person in the galaxy for the most important characters in the franchize. It's what we have fanfiction for. And If you need this character to talk to [sometimes already dead] Anakin in her story all the time it probably means that you didn't do as a great job with her as you thought. But I agree, at least we can have a discussion about Ahsoka. with Rey I don't even know what to talk about
@@ekaf1735 definitely agree with no need to have Ahsoka THE most important character of the galaxy far far away. It harms to make every her appearance crucial for the fate of the galaxy.
The reason why Mandalorian was so good and popular, because first seasons were very grounded and focused.
It's so frustrating how the people at Disney care more about sending messages than making actually good movies with interesting stories and compelling characters. I know it's been like that for a long time now but it's still so infuriating.
If Rey had truly become Luke's apprentice, instead of turning him into an ass and killing him off before trying to shoehorn in Leia as her master even after Carry Fisher's death--she could have been received very differently by the fanbase.
Men can't teach women anything and KK wouldn't accept being seen as just George Lucas's apprentice.
I wish I could throw away $300 million just to spite people.
As a feminist, this is a horrible idea. the entire sequel trilogy was horribly mismanaged.
And even overlooking Sharmeen's intent to make people unhappy just because she enjoys making people unhappy, she's a documentary director. You don't give a documentary director your $300 million baby of a scifi screenplay. If she really wants to switch from documentarian to fiction director, you would give her something small to cut her teeth on. Because documentaries require a very different style and approach to anything fictional. That's just basic knowledge and commonsense before you consider any outside agenda she may also have.
Sharmeen's comments were in reference to men who perpetrated acid attacks on women in Pakistan...those are the men she wanted to make uncomfortable. Does nobody actually read past headline articles anymore? And Lucas himself approached his films in a documentarian style, so I can see what they may have been aiming for. The problem is that the character just wasn't interesting, and they had three films to try and crack that issue.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks Yeah, but for a $300 million project, they still should have given her something small to see how she would do.
@@blockmasterscott That assumes she has significant independence. This is going to be the most designed-by-committee movie ever
@@Corn_Pone_Flicksshe also made another comment about she was finally going to be putting a woman’s mark on SW - many feeling that’s disrespectful to all the women who already have
Well, the sad part is they can do whatever they want. They bought the IP, so they can add unicorns or Donald Duck if they will. If Disney's shareholders don't complain and are happy to throw 300 millions down the gutter, good for them. I'm not gonna pay to see a garbage film with a Star Wars logo on it.
It’s just sad, because there *have* been good female characters in modern Star Wars. Jyn Erso, Hera, Dedra… hell, the Jedi games, especially, have given us arguably some of the best we’ve had in years. But no… I guess we’re all just sexist because they’re going with the Mary Sue character that was incredibly poorly written. Thanks, Kennedy.
Hera was a fantastic and compelling character in Rebels. In the Ahsoka show... not so much.
I am even willing to accept the Mando and grogu movie over a Rey movie.
Jyn Erso? Meh. Dedra? I’m sorry who is that? Hera? Wasted. Merrin? Wasn’t fleshed out much, but she’s palatable. Cere Junda? Also wasn’t fleshed out much. Same goes with Trilla Suduri.
@@mazkeraid4039 is Cal fleshed out more or is that just a consequence of being a protagonist? You judge characters in context.
Mara Jade, Tenel Ka, Jaina Solo, Tahiri Velia, Lumiya, Vegere, Tyria Sarkin, Gara Petothel, Shalla Nelprin, Natasi Daala. Those are just the female characters that immediately occur to me when I think about all that was erased from the end of the EU so we could have this shit trilogy shoveled down our throats.
Because Rey is a Kathleen Kennedy self insert character
My interest in Star Wars is no longer as a franchise, it’s more as a piece of history watching how badly a corporation can mess up such a well-beloved franchise and turn their own fans not into haters, but just into apathetic once-fans.
Sometimes there's no shame in admitting defeat.Part of star wars is learning to accept your failures and learn from them.
From what I have heard, Marvel and DC also had these kinds of problems in the late 2000s with the third _Spider Man_ movie and _Batman and Robin._ The big difference is that instead of antagonizing people who criticized the films, the directors recognized that they had made serious mistakes and apologized for not making the best stories they could have made.
@@Daniel_Huffman I've never heard that before.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 I myself only heard about it once, and I admit that I probably got some details wrong.
@@Daniel_Huffman that's ok, i myself get some details wrong from time to time.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 Which brings us back to your original comment. Luke in the pre-2014 continuity was still capable of making mistakes even decades after becoming a Jedi, but he never let those mistakes define him.
Man I'm here Super early but since the Sequel Trilogy bombed in the Box Office its because Rey isn't as popular and well liked as Luke Skywalker and Anikan Skywalker she isn't an icon if anything she represents Kathleen Kennedys Power Fantasy of Feminism.
3 highest grossing movies in the franchise (all 3 of which made above $1B) isn’t really what we’d call “bombing at the box office”.
Atrocious movies, but they sure made a lot of money
@@Wes_Bradley-TaubnerThe third of which made half of the first movie of the trilogy. It shows a decline in interest, and I don't think as many will fall for it for some Rey movie.
Because Rey is Kennedy's Self Insert.
Because to Kennedy, Rey is a symbol. For her she’s a bulwark, she represents the „good fight“. Not doubling down on Rey would mean admitting defeat to people who are pure evil in her eyes.
Yeh, Rey is their New "Disney Princess", this is exactly HOW Disney and ALL of Hollywood envision Rey; and this is the HUGE problem with Hollywood in general, they ALWAYS have to try and dictate and tell all of us how we should behave, and be in society. they absolutely wanted and really just demand we all applaud the character of Rey in the Disney Sequel trilogy.
Kathy Kennedy and Iger really, REALLY wanted Rey to be this Feminist Icon! You can guarantee Kathy Kennedy was truly expecting she would be hailed as this like Champion of *Women* in the industry. I've always said Kathleen Kennedy purely sees herself in the Rey character.
It's why Rey is written as a mary sue, who can do no wrong and everything comes to her natural, she NEVER "earns" anything. She's like meant to be this like empty place-holder for young girls and young women to see themselves through. 5:00 You're absolutely right thor, Kathy Kennedy simply Will Not pay any attention to all the overwhelming Fan criticism of Rey and how the character simply has not resonated with a majority of the Fans.
this is WHY I very much want this Rey Movie to happen! So we can finally put this whole issue to bed and then MOVE ON. If a Rey movie does poorly at the box-office, i mean like "the Marvels" BAD, where it doesn't even recoup it's own budget cost. Or it does as bad as Kathy's Indiana Jones & he Dial of Destiny. I mean that's it by that point, the writing will indeed be on the wall, and that will then prove without a shadow of a doubt that the specific way inwhich they approached the character of "Rey" in the Sequels; was disingenuous, and ultimately Divided Starwars fans. And the character has Not become this symbol of Modern Feminism, to where Women of today look to Rey as this big inspiration.
Infact in *Real Life* whenever someone creates a character in a story or movie, that goes on to greatly inspire people, or become cemented into the public zeitgeist, the creator of said character always says things like they NEVER once expected that character to have such the impact it has gone on to have.
With Kathy Kennedy and all those arrogant, full of themselves, narcissists in Hollywood, they desperately want their characters to do that and affect the culture; and they ALWAYS FAIL; purely because people in Hollywood are ALL FAKE. they're all a bunch of hypocrites, the amount of people who knew full well, or atleast heard of everything Harvey Weinstein was upto for years, and NO ONE said a damn thing, but just all went about their lives; all scared of risking their own precious careers, and chance to reach the top; and Kathy i think is one of those people, she's been in the industry long enough. I keep hearing many people say how Kathy Kennedy is untouchable in Hollywood because she's got dirt on people, how about SHE herself is just a culpable.
But the sheer hypocrisy that they all act like they're soo righteous, virtuous and "Good". When in truth they're really Not! So yeh, that's why Rey is not having the affect they indeed so desperately wanted; because the character herself was created Not from the Modest, humble and honest approach; Not by way of everything George Lucas once said about those who are truly good and are genuinely trying to do *Good* in our world. But Rey was created for all the wrong reasons, by way of Vanity. And Fans, people can see through it all now, they see just how disingenuous Disney and Kathy Kennedy really are.
Because like it or not - the executives think Rey brought in billions and ignore the fact that SW hype was its peak then.
I’m so glad I found this channel. Best in the whole segment of SW-TH-cam. Hey Thor, you’re awesome!
@thor appreciate the response. I suppose all we can hope is KK succeeds(writing a good Rey story), for all of our sakes.
If Disney wants set $200 million on fire by making a Rey movie, I'd say let them. It's their funeral.
Because, number 1, they want Rey to be the face of Star Wars whether we like her, or not. Number 2, moving away from the sequels means failure on their part. So instead of moving on to newer things they will shove this down our throats. It sucks. Vince used to do this in the WWE with certain wrestlers. Even if they were getting booed out of the arena. And these news articles are just trying to create, and control the narrative. The whole situation is unfortunate.
Two things: 1. Kennedy is unable to accept the fact that nobody likes her self insert. So she chooses To double down shove it in everyone's faces
2. The people around her even the executives are afraid to tell her no
3. Kennedy has no dog in this fight. She is just a "yes-man" for the Disney board. A puppet. A stooge. The puppet masters are Igor and his ilk.
@@antiquecardboard Don't forget black rock
@@herooflight7931 and Vanguard
It’s called being married to and/or doubling down on a bad idea for fear of having to concede it is a bad idea by having to abandon it.
They can’t make her appealing, at least not in a short amount of time, without completely overhauling her most prominent qualities.
Because KK is hellbent on pushing her bs down our throats and destroying Star Wars in the process
At this point for kk, it’s not about money, it’s about sending a message
It’s so sinister why do all of this if not for money, to KK this is about her agendas and that is why I want her gone
Honestly if they improve her character and make the fanbase like her it'll make me really happy.
A very risky maneuver though
It's not about money or what works. *_It's about sending a message._*
The problem is no one is watching the message anymore, so it is a pointless task.
Hey Thor, after hearing about how Dave Filoni held a screening of Godzilla Minus one as well as a QnA with the director Takashi Yamazaki and how he was inspired by Star Wars, what would you want to see in a SW movie directed by Yamazaki?
I'd like to see a Star Wars film featuring Godzilla (and King Gedorrah too, 'cause he lives in space)
Actual character development and dialogue
The thing I hate Kennedy/episodes 7-8-9 for are that they went with multiple directors who weren't on the same page and they had nobody willing to be a hardass and hold to a script/story. There were character threads I thought were fine in 7, and the director change from 7 to 8 killed all of those threads.
I agree. 7 is a decent set-up to a new trilogy. 8 is a giant narrative mess. 9 is not actually a real sequel to 8 and if feels like there was a movie between 8 and 9 that should exist to have the story make sense, but does not.
KK's ego is about cementing her legacy. Rey is the representation of KK, the modern replacement for Luke (Lucas).
She's certainly cementing her legacy, just not a good one. It's such a shame that someone who worked so closely with Lucas could fall so far….
I've never been more apathetic about Star Wars than I am today. And I've loved the franchise for over 47 years. The current Lucasfilm "leadership" have no idea how Star Wars works and until they are gone, the films are going to suffer.
Hey Thor. It was announced as a power play.
They have already announced 13 other films that were either cancelled outright, stuck in development limbo, or turned into Disney Plus shows.
With this announcement if Iger tries to cancel it he is in danger of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc.
By announcing it the media can claim that KK is trying to do something.
The evidence is media literally asking Disney to defend KK and Sharmeen! You're a genius, but it seems like we still can't organise any kind of guerrilla tactics to counter these stupid KK power plays as the fandom. Instead we always take KK's bait.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о The correct tactic is to walk away and accept reality. Star Wars is dead. It isn't coming back. This isn't a situation where they can give us what we want. Carrie is dead. Harrison and Mark are too old to sustain the franchise. And to be blunt the story was told. The EU gave us a fix but even it was repetitious at time. But even if we like the EU they aren't competent or capable of making it as the young generation is psychologically broken and lacks the talent.
The best thing we can do is accept that its over and stop talking about it. If we could all actually do this their whole toxic fanboy narrative goes away. The franchise would then fade into obscurity like it is destined to like Flash Gordon before it. Then their investment is worthless.
@@jasonreynolds6643👏👏💯. Absolutely right, I couldn't agree more.
Jyn made a sacrifice. Narcissists don’t want to celebrate sacrifice.
They want to be Mary Sue’s. Overpowered and dominant. And they don’t want to have to work for it.
I wonder if the announcement of the Rey movie was a response to South Parks Panderverse. She’s like, “I’ll make them all regret it!” 😂
What I can't figure out, because it was nine years ago, was why They, whoever They are, thought we needed a Feminist icon in SW to begin with? SW was going on quite nicely, minding its own business, with a very successful fan base, enjoying the books and toys that came out. Who decided this was wrong, and why did KK and Company double down on the idea that Luke and Han were so terrible and Leia might as well not be there in their eyes and there had to be some Super Woman to be better than everybody else? Did they send those articles you showed to those magazines to print, or did their reporters come up with the idea that Rey was the Feminist Icon of the century by themselves? Maybe if they had kept their mouths shut until after the trilogy came out, the films might have been received better by unangered fans with pitchforks.
I wonder the same thing, why they can't move on and I do think that is the reason. As much as I want Rey's new movie to be good, I think the damage has been done and they should just leave Rey's story alone.
I could ramble about all the great possibilities of continuing her journey, the potential is already wasted by jumping straight to when she is a teacher.
Kathleen Kennedy never understood her role when she worked under George and Steven. Executive Producers manage the overarching logistics, schedule meetings, coordinate asset orders and receipts, securing film locations, ensuring the production is moving ever forward until completion. Logisitics management is an important role in any film production company, which was what she was tasked with; she was never the creative drive behind anything (if she chimed in, and from Steven's accounts, she did a lot, it was often ignored). Fast forward to the present, she still doesn't get it. Yes, she's the head of the subsidiary, but she's not a creative. She's corporate and should be focused on that aspect. Managing production costs, executing proper brand management and promotion, sealing partnerships to secure merchandising agreements and contracts. Like Bob Iger, she believes ushering in some sort of cultural zeitgeist, when in fact, she's deflating Lucasfilm as a whole.
It goes beyond Kennedy not wanting to be seen as admitting defeat. Backing off on Rey would be admitting she had an agenda that her was her priority above and beyond making good Star Wars movies.
I agree with the above assessment in all except one little detail. Unlike Thor , I DO hold a grudge against the ''Rey fans''.
They were all happy enough to jump on the bandwagon of abuse back in the day (TLJ day). Now they can see what's coming .
This is the end for Star Wars. This is going to be a level indie 5 catastrophic failure . And with that , the game is up. Lucas film will be history and so will the franchise .
So , they've had their Star Wars , their regurgitated cartoons and comics . But they won't be getting a whole lot of sympathy from me.
Because Rey is like Helena in Dial of Destiny: KK's stand-in for the movie. A character that is going to erase the past hero and supplant them. KK is flipping the bird at Lucas and Spielberg because they didn't respect her or something. This is KK smashing the patriarchy in her mind. It was Luke's job to restore the Jedi order, so they make him a failure and now they release the next movie and have Rey do that. Everything Anakin and Luke accomplished in past movies is now a Rey accomplishment.
I think KK is straight up trolling us.
I don't think Kennedy wants to spite the fans, because she doesn't think about the _existing_ fanbase at all. The social media stuff, the headlines and TH-cam videos, that's marketing. She leaves that to people who are paid to deal with it. In the circle of big time executive types that Kennedy does interact with, no one criticizes the sequels.
What she does care about is her legacy, like you said. Rey is meant to be her big addition to popular culture, the hero who will not only be up there with Luke Skywalker, but who will replace him in the popular imagination. Through Rey and the sequels, Kennedy is supposed to be the one who opened up Star Wars to new fans who had no entry point into the franchise before. She's supposed to be the one who secured the future of Star Wars in a changing world, saving it from dwindling in popularity as the existing (male, white) fanbase died off.
But that didn't happen with the sequels. The box office totals declined with each successive movie, and the merchandising with the new characters didn't sell. Kennedy does see those numbers. She knows that her plan hasn't worked, but probably can't admit it out loud. And if you can't admit you made a mistake there's no way to see what you did wrong. So this new movie is her coming back for a forth time, certain that this time Rey will finally click with audiences and Kennedy's legacy as a successful producer will be secured.
"a lot of people just don't like the character of Rey." what character? that's kind of the point. 3 movies and zero character. fwiw, Luke was just an archetype in SW. but he did develop a character over empire and jedi. but what character? the sequels were so horribly disjointed and unconcerned about character development, and her story arc felt like it was cooked up in a night time drinking game (RoS).
As long as Disney is making films that they know won't be financially successful, but want to continue the story anyway, can we get the third installment in the Tron universe?
OK, hear me out... do you remember the plot of Mel Brooks's The Producers? Maybe it's a shoot-the-moon scenario, but it only works if everything is bad.
As a woman, I've been a Star Wars fan since the prequels. While Leia is not my favorite character, I loved her and wouldn't mind a story about her as the main character. I feel like Jin Arson was kind of a boring character, the reason she isn't disliked is because the movie was mostly very good. If the sequels hadn't sucked, alot of people wouldn't have cared if Rey was as boring as she mostly was. Rey is disliked because she has become a symbol of everything "Sequels". Personality I think any female character no matter, her looks, can be liked if the Story is competently written, Rey was just one boring part of a terribly written trilogy.
Captain Marvel was mostly a meh movie instead of a disaster like TLJ or TROS, yet people still took issue with her boring character, so I disagree.
Jyn Erso has a core relationship with her two fathers (one adoptive and one biological) which makes the character more palatable to men. The mystery box with parentage killed Rey.
Also Jyn Erso doesn't need to change her surname to Gerrera...
I don't think I've genuinely ever met a single fan of Rey irl.
Now, I don't live in New York, or California, or anywhere with some extremely dense population. But I've spoken to people on both sides of the cultural and political spectrum, nobody likes Rey.
Even one of my former co-workers, who was probably one of the biggest "pro disney star wars" fans I knew, who was hyped as hell for Rise of Skywalker, didn't care about Rey. Said co-worker was a woman as well, likely fitting all the checkmarks for a theoretical Rey "demographic". Yet, she never liked Rey, not even in TFA. Her main complaint being the cardinal sin of any fictional character; she thought Rey was boring.
(Also, for those curious, I remember her saying her favorite characters were Darth Maul and Kylo. I think she has a type. But this was also back in 2019 when TROS came out, so who knows if she's changed her mind)
Unless George specifically produced or endorsed it, it’s all fanfic bs- that being said, with the exception of Rogue One, everything Disney Star Wars has made me want to cry, and the rumors of this new movie are cringe worthy- especially about phasing out anything that has to do with the Lucas SW, which just doesn’t make sense- I even heard that writer originally was getting input from Lucas himself and he got in a big argument with Chinoy which led to erasing anything Skywalker- and I may be wrong but I think I could have been more accepting of Rey if they had just made her Luke’s daughter, especially when according to George Luke became the greatest Jedi ever
Disney wants to be successful but only on their terms. Eventually, once they loose enough money and enough time has passed as to allow them to gloss over their failure, they will reluctantly give the fans what they want.
You know, there is mass effect. We have Shepard. You chose M or F.
And what I wanna say that if it written good - M or F really doesn't matter. You just enjoying playing and get exited to learn more.
I could have withstood and accepted Rey if they didn't have to build her up by tearing down Luke. For me anyway, that was the biggest middle finger Kennedy gave to us with her agenda movies. It's very similar to those very bad sitcoms where the women are smart and competent and the men are all clueless and reprehensible.
The main thing about Rey, she’s just, above all, a boring character the way they’ve written her; but it really wouldnt take too much to make her great
But that would require Lucasfilm giving her flaws and actively making her address and overcome them with tribulations, and that’s just simply not allowed anymore it seems
My thoughts on Rey:
Wasted Potential. Much like most of the Sequels. I don't hate her, because that would require her to elicit an emotion from me, and she just.... doesn't. She's boring.
I think you're spot on. This is a feedback loop where the more disapproval of the content drives LucasFilm to make more of it.
Rey could have been, SHOULD have been a great character. But now, even if you made a Rey movie that was an amazingly great Star Wars movie, I don't believe the fans would accept it. Accepting Rey as a good character now, after the Last Jedi, means accepting Luke as that wild-eyed man about to murder his own nephew. It means accepting Luke as the guy who tosses away his lightsaber, not to reject fighting with anger and hate and claim his place among the Jedi (and inspire even his Dark Side corrupted father to find the spark of light within his own soul) but to reject his responsibility as a Jedi to stand against the darkness overrunning the Galaxy and train new generations of Jedi. It means accepting the the Jedi were outmoded and should be largely forgotten, maybe (I think the symbolism of Yoda burning down the tree with those ancient Jedi texts was kinda undone by Rey having squirreled away those books on the Falcon - TLJ was always stepping on its own themes because RJ is a VERY BAD screenwriter).
The Last Jedi DESTROYED Luke Skywalker, and accepting Rey now means hating Luke as much as Rian Johnson (and Kennedy) apparently did - and I don't think Star Wars fans will go down that path.
The tree symbolism is mostly for Luke to accept he's a fucking failure maybe. I could see Rian going for that 😂
they don't seem to realize that the only people that would actually like this stuff are people that don't have any money.
They are finally recognizing his subtle genius? A self-styled "prophet"? You can't win, Darth. The Diablero can change reality.
i remember reading article about the 10 most hated star wars characters and on the list was jyn erso which surprised me quite a bit (she was mid to begin with but got quite a bit better by the ending, i dont think people hated her character, at the very most: flat and boring). however i knew why they put her on list bc "sHe Is A WoMeN, ThErEfORe She Is HaTeD" shitfuckery
It seems to me, based on the pace of Rey's learning disability, that KKK intended to do 6 or 7 movies with Rey. But she was disappointed that her message didn't reach all the women, and now, she may be considering, what bits of Rey's storyline can be left for comics, novelizations, and cameos. Thinking about condensing it down to just the key plot points, like Lucas did, when he was in a similar situation with the prequels on either side of the Clone Wars.
It is also possible to dislike Rey's character, and not be too thrilled with her storyline, while still wanting more of it, which is what I hope for - something that is clever enough, not to talk down to the audience, while also being simplified enough, to help them understand the purpose and plot of the ST. Make them realize what they watched.
I fully believe Disney paid Mark Hamill to spit on the movies, because it gratifies her sexual feminism to make you manbaby, and the Story Group benefits from this as well, because you don't want to believe that Rey can make all the most evil shit happen, and pull no end of cardboard monsters out of her ass, just by wishing for "being important somebody" (maybe even because you don't want to believe, that Luke or the Mortis Gods made the Throne Room scene happen, by Luke wishing for it, and maybe even Yoda made the Sith return, by "wishing" or rather fearing, that he would be a failure) - and because you don't want to believe it's true, they make you prove it's true - that's how liberty dies, to a thunderous applause. Just like how Lucas made you side with the Rebels, to prove to you that America were the bad guys in the Vietnam War (business as usual), which you also didn't want to believe.
Here's what the leak suggested:
- Plagueis has somehow returned (he was ashes in an urn in RotS) - to manipulate the midi-chlorians, to create... life.
- Rey is pregnant or a mother (immaculate, or by way of Force Dildo), and is killed by her son
- Rey failed to destroy the Dyad by murdering Ben Solo?
What I'd amend:
- No one can kill Rey, she is too powerful. Except maybe Dark Rey from the other timeline, but that will become Abeloth, or maybe her son. Or maybe herself.
- Rey Palpatine asked the fake Rey From Nowhere, if she had fixed the timeline now, and Rey FN(2187) confirmed it, "I am Rey Skywalker!"
- Luke created/rebuilt the Astral Projection spell, by being dead the whole time, like Qui-Gon built Force Ghost. Now Rey will use that magic, to impregnate/unalive herself, by creating Force Dildo, and then the Force Pokéjedi: Luke, Leia, Ben and Rey Skywalker, that not only fight, but also work like spell-rosters (Luke for acrobatics, Leia for protection/healing, Ben for insight/anti-deception, Rey for speed/time, etc.)
Because IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MESSAGE. Disney Lucasfilm does not care about Star Wars
The problem wasn't having A female protagonist -- the problem was have THIS female protagonist.
Because their pride will not allow them to admit their failure, pathetic.
If they’re going to bring anyone back it should be Finn & Poe. They were poorly developed, but at least there’s untapped potential there. Plus they’re played by charismatic actors. Send them on a Sci-Fi Buddy Action adventure together
Buddies aren't allowed in KK's soapbox.
I never disliked Ahsoka.
But I was a bit perplexed that Anakin was given a padawan.
I quite liked Rey (and Finn and Poe) in the first movie, but now I don't want to be reminded of any aspect of the sequels.
Which is why I'm not too excited about future StarWars projects, because the canon is set in stone now.
I still don't think Anakin having an apprentice makes sense.
I’ve never understood this argument that Star Wars is sexist or misogynistic, or that those are traits in the fandom because of Star Wars itself.
Star Wars has always been relatively progressive with its view of women: they can vote, hold public office, work in most occupations, can become military leaders and commanders, as well as foot soldiers and pilots, and have essentially the exact same rights and privileges as men.
Granted some societies in Star Wars are patriarchal, but there are also matriarchal societies as well (The Nightsisters and Hapes Consortium, for example)
Heck, Mon Mothma, Leia Organa, Ysanne Isard, Mara Jade, and Natasi Daala were all women who were also some of the most powerful and influential individuals in the galaxy.
We don’t hate women for being in places of power in Star Wars. IMO, Rey could’ve easily been a beloved and respected character had she been written better. Instead, she became little better than a plot device and an extraordinarily confusing and boring character.
I would rather see a movie about Fennec Shand than about Rey. Ming-Na Wen is already a proven quantity as a strong female action hero (Agents of Shield, etc) and she was the best part of that Boba Fart series when it came to acting.
In another words, Kathleen Kennedy lost every contact with reality.
I don’t understand the first question. I remember back when rogue one first came out Jyn Erso being a bad character was one of the big issues people had with Rogue one. That she was flat and didn’t have her own agency.
The answer is insanity.
The only thing Rey had was a premise, not a character. I actually think its perfectly fine to introduce feminist ideas, but it needs to be accompanied by actually good writing and story, not be the be all end all.
Edit: It doesnt help they did a terrible job at even the feminism stuff, since Rey only has overwhelming power and supposed righteousness, yet she lacks any heroic traits such as self sacrifice, humility, and actual compassion. Strength is shown when someone overcomes genuine physical, mental, and emotional obstacles which push them to their limits, not just getting through everything with ease.
2:40 Yes! Thank you for reminding people of this!
One of the things that makes me feel negatively towards the sequels and their characters is the way they turned the original three heroes into pathetic stereotypes in order to give room to their own characters. Princess Leia would undoubtedly have loved her son, but she wouldn’t become a whiny old emotional weakling that she was portrayed as in TFA. I get frustrated that they feel they have to try and make out that she was only ever a damsel in distress and ignore the fact that she took charge the second she was on the screen. Han, Luke and Chewie would have been captured in the detention centre (conveniently) had it not been for her. Only rant over. Sorry.
While I don't 'like' Rey, I don't dislike her either. I think there's potential there if they learn and grow from the complaints, which they /can/ do. And I think by focusing on her rebuilding the Jedi Order from the start, there is a chance to do something more interesting than Empire 3.0. I get why TFA did it, but there are alternatives. I also think moving Star Wars forward is better than keeping it trapped in the Prequels --> Sequels Skywalker Era. (And I'm including the Filoniverse in that.) (And I know about The Acolyte being set outside of that time, but that's an anomaly.)
Though if we're being honest, the real win would be a Finn project. I don't know if Boyega is 100% not interested or if they just don't think people would go for that even if he's the one done most dirty by the sequels.
The weird thing is, I don't exactly hate Rey either. The thing I can say in her favour is that, unlike Carol Danvers or Michael Burnham, she never really comes across as arrogant or overly cocky, or that she considers herself to be better or smarter than anyone else. Infact, half the time she appears rather afraid out by her power she herself doesn't really seem to understand. Like when she lifts these rocks at the end of TLJ, she almost looks freaked out. And Ridley has a certain likeability the actresses of the aforementioned characters lack and that likeability carries over to Rey.
Meaning that I probably would look forward to a Rey-Movie with her playing the Character had it been better handled, better set up by the preceding Sequel Trilogy. Say, suppose the New Jedi Order set up after ROTJ had been alive and well at the start of Episode VII and Rey had joined it in that movie and the Trilogy had ended with her being awarded the Rank of Master, I *would* be interested seeing her leading the Order *Luke founded* forward into a new Era. Alas, TFA started with the Order gone again and I don't find the prospect of Rey doing what I wanted Luke to do very appealing.
Simple: They're devoted to the religion of feminism. Logic and even money have nothing to do with their commitment.
It’s a bit like when they made doctor who a woman. All the reviews were about “the doctor is now a woman” not a single one of them talked about the story and writing which was, to put it bluntly, laughingly bad
The most culturally pernicious thing about Rey isn’t that she’s a “feminist” icon; it’s that she’s specifically an icon of the corporate girlboss 2010’s kind of Hillary Clinton feminism that nobody else (including other feminists) actually likes or respects. There’s zero room for valid criticism, zero room to point out that they’re not actually accomplishing anything impressive. It’s the kind of understanding of female characters which is the worst possible combination of mediocrity with unassailable self-confidence.
Just gonna say this. To those reading this or watching this video or many others like it. You’re part of the problem. Let me explain.
When videos like this get made not just Thor Skywalker. I’m talking about the many others as well. Critical drinker. Mauler. Tyrone magnus. Stupendous wave. 100 percent Star Wars, Star Wars theory, Endymion, etc, etc etc. you are giving them free marketing. As you make your Star Wars content because you made your career around it, or touching base on it. Many thousands or millions will watch it. And it’s because it’s Star Wars. Despite what you say or cover in your videos. Those people will still watch it. Because it’s Star Wars. Despite how divisive last Jedi was to the fanbase it still made 1.3 billion dollars. Even though I consider rise of Skywalker the worst out of the three. Still made a billion. Lost some viewers for Star Wars shows and only solo lost money? Thats nothing. Star Wars is one of the biggest fanbases of entertainment. That even though people like Thor Skywalker or Star Wars theory talk about this. They will still watch it. They will cover it and explain it. In how it’s good or bad. And good chance their fans will watch it. So what are you really accomplishing here other than making more content for your TH-cam channel? Nothing. Like I said they count on channels like this because it’s free marketing. There is only one solution to fix this or to send a message and it’s not making 10 min to 5 hour long videos how it can be better or fixed.
Stop watching. Stop talking about it. Stop giving this company your time or money. And this has to be done my millions upon millions of fans because there are those that will still watch it despite its controversy because..
It’s Star Wars.
I would have to agree, either commit or don't
Like are going to keep watching garbarge
It's because Disney is getting such large amounts of funding from Black Rock that it doesn't matter if they make flops; it only matters if they push propaganda.
When have you ever known a woman to accept they're wrong and correct their behavior...
It’s beautiful that KK hired an activist director to make a movie with a character that only activists want to be made (not to watch, just get made).
There is no more women lead hiding in the bushes any more like Reva hiding behind Obi Wan, Bo-Katan hiding behind Mando, Woman Loki behind real Loki, America Chavez behind Doctor Strange, Kate Bishop behind Hawkeye…
You cannot make an IP your own, IPs are fans property. There is a reason that men are more interested in Marvel, Star Wars and sports than women. You just get nothing when you artificially want to change that
Unfortunately you're mistaken. Fans don't own IPs. Unless you actively have a stake in their management
I think a better, proven model of success can be found in Spider Man and Top Gun.
As soon as KK heard that the "toxic" youtubers were having a field day with the news of the Rey movie getting delayed/cancelled she threw a hissy fit and insisted that Lucasfilm make the Rey movie happen! She wants to BRAND Star Wars on the forehead with the "Force is Female" and make sure to "make men feel uncomfortable" with her new pet director! It's just KK's petty EGO self-insert of Rey that is gonna cost Disney hundreds of millions of dollars! This movie will TANK even worse than Indy 5 which KK already destroyed using Phoebe Waller-Bridge as her agent of Ultra WOKE Feminism!
It also could have been that they market tested the character from the films and found that multiple test groups liked the character even if not the story…which is kind of how most modern studios research audiences for their products.
I really hate to be this guy, but I think if I saw Kathleen Kennedy in person, I’d prolly scream at her. I was 12 when TFA came out. I loved it. Then the next two movies came out, ruining the chance to see my favourite characters stories come to an end in a decent manner. Completely let me down.
She’s a Sith. Prideful and stubborn.
Kathleen answered this question herself ...
After South Park - into the Panderwerse was released ... or some time around that event, Kathleen released a statement that this thing feels like pure assault on everything she tryed to achieve, and (i only paraphrase) "from now on she will double her fight against the patriarchy, rather than submit".
So yeah ... its just stubborness.
She is simply ready and willing to fight ... no matter if there is any real enemy, or its all just in her own head.
Because the actress has about 30 year of career left, and disney want to milk it?
Daisy ridley is fantastic, i want to see more of her. They just need to write rey as an interesting character really, and stop making star wars films as stupid disconnected mystery box messes.
And fans need to stop looking for deeper meaning in star wars - its not about feminism or really politics at all beyond "oppression bad, freedom good, group of friends adventure time!", and it works best when thats the core of it.