It's Elon Musk vs. Warren Buffett in the Fight for the Future of Solar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2016
- Jan. 28 -- SolarCity, America’s largest manufacturer and leaser of solar panels, was welcomed into Nevada with economic incentives. But then Nevada’s Public Utilities Commission started charging homes with solar panels more to use the public grid. This is bigger than a fight over solar energy - Nevada Energy, is part of Warren Buffett’s business empire, and Elon Musk is behind SolarCity. The outcome of fight in Nevada could set the course for solar energy adoption across the country. (Video by Ali Withers)
Buy a Tesla power wall and cut the power company's line off your house
Or get a communal power bank, stick it in a shed, and run the whole neighborhood from it.
Gregory Braun it's illegal to be off the grid in place or everyone would be doing it.
Hahahaa illegal to be "Off Grid" in land of the free, this same country is currently exporting freedom to Syria,Libya,Iraq,Afghanistan,Yemen !!!
Muricaaaa !!! Freedom !!!!! not
@peanutaxis In some states and parts of Canada.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-07-10/off-the-grid-in-florida-robin-speronis-fights-municipal-code
***** Ofcourse, its illegal even in FLORIDA and some states, i heard Texas doesnt even allow sales of TESLA Cars
why not just add tesla battery and go completely off the grid
+chrismas how can it still charge when youre off the grid?
+defaultindian they charge customers outrageous to be removed from the grid they are charging up to 20+ million to some company's to come of the grid.
+Tommy Freeman thats crony capitalism at its best
+JULIO ACOSTA OFFICIAL yes I agree.Sad when money is more important then the future of our children's children and so on.
Exactly this. When a hierarchical monopoly tries to bully smaller people, the solution is to decentralise. Create independent community circles and group together to buy the batteries that will enable them to go off grid. Reach out to Elon Musk's company and propose new deals and leasing & service agreements. Create training and outreach that gives neighbouring groups advice on how to start their own. Hierarchical organisations simply cannot fight decentralised movements. Musk will win in the end.
$350 a month?! good god America is getting screwed over on electricity prices.
You have to think that nevada where the A/C units non stop for 16 hours a day. They have a few dams to produce energy but the state should be looking towards solar farms.
Rahul Saraswat if anything your over populated land is destroying the planet. how much more antibiotics will India continue to pour into the water until there's a super viruses we can't beat? .. please just stfu if it ain't positive feedback.
DAMN ROASTED
that's not how economics work, 350$/month is like a fraction of a normal monthly salary in nevada; and that fraction/percent might not be that different than the relative fraction to what it costs in india (say like 5-10-15% of your total monthly income). like in india let's say you make 350/month, but how much do you pay for power or water? maybe 30$? if say u spend under 50$ for water/power (utilities) then that's 1/7th of your monthly income. it's probably about like that in the US too. and almost all of that power in nevada comes from a dam that generates all the power (which isn't ruining the environment).
on the other hand, the amount of pollution being dumped into the oceans by india and other countries in asia is pretty massive. india needs to have much stricter pollution laws than it does. not saying that western countries in NA are not polluting, but india is NOT free of guilt in this respect, and in terms of ocean/waterways pollution, it is pretty bad.
www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most-ocean-trash-1423767676
+Ramakrishna R M good point, it's still a fair bit.
in terms of antibiotics: www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/oct/25/antibiotic-waste-pollution-india-china-rivers-big-pharma-superbugs-resistance
0:25 The sun is not the biggest nuclear reactor in the universe! there are much bigger stars out there. I think she meant the biggest nuclear reactor in the solar system.
Hah I knew some nerd would jump at the chance to correct her. :P
At least the lady have a clue how our solar works. Some people even don't know how the solar works.
It's also the smallest nuclear reactor in the solar system.
How do you mean?
Possibly a good opportunity to field test those TESLA home batteries
+053334 Lithium batteries are way too expensive and they need replacing every 10 years of regular cycling. Lead deep-cycle batteries are much cheaper and there is already an effective recycling infrastructure for them. Making "lightweight" Li-ion batteries for homes instead of cars is a waste.
+leerman22 Perhaps you've heard of the Giga Factory. Keep up on your current events.
go check out ultracapacitor batteries, then you will know how backward and expansive Tesla is.
It was said many times..... MONEY SHOULD STAY OUT OF POLITICS.
yeah man
+zh11147 And why is that happening? Isn't that because the monopoly pays big money to the big government to be able to act without restraint?
P.S.
BTW, you can edit your comments.
*****
I agree on Republicans. But what can be the reason for Democrats wanting people to stay on the grid more than wanting to control monopolies or to decrease the global dependency on fossil fuels? What can be the reason other than personal benefit? Are you sure there are no money involved?
*****
Ok, maybe it's just one of those things, I will never understand as a non-American. Thanks for explaining, anyway.
*****
Ukraine :)
Who's here to do a research paper? 🤚
lfg
I realize these people have already spent the money on the installation but since they're already that invested, why not spend the extra amount to put in battery packs and go off the grid entirely. Once the 14 kWh packs come out, an array of a few of them should be more than enough to meet any demands of the household during the night time. The only way these power companies will feel it is if you take them out of the picture entirely. No other act of protest will change the way they do business. They've been doing it for far too long.
iMeatbag they would need more panels. the fact that they have a bill at all means they are drawing plenty of power from the grid and at one point will run out of power. it would be cheaper to get a generator than spending 12-35k on batteries.
johnny cake Except you're missing the point of batteries and solar panels entirely if you're burning gas in a generator. Further, a generator still requires fuel. Yes, you can buy a lot of fuel for $25k but that's the very thinking people have to get away from to solve the problem. Everything comes down to economics and things don't become economical without early adopters and the higher price that comes with being one. As more people buy and install batteries, eventually it will be cheaper. And once they can get the cycle lifetime to something more robust, their lack of maintenance will make them far superior over gas generators. Further, I imagine the reason Tesla was bragging faster charge times of their cars at their solar roof unveiling has something to do with charging a DC car off a DC source (the powerwall).
iMeatbag my point is that they are complaining about the cost and batteries are just an extra cost. they are taping into the grid (which probably means coal) and if they dont want to pay the fees than disconnect. a generator is there best financial choice but even that would be costly. early adapters do carry burden of cost but they all said they did it to save money. solar is currently not cost effective and they need to accept that.
johnny cake But that's my point. They've already invested in the hopes of no more maintenance or additional operating costs. A generator is more operating costs that is gonna create a lot of noise and more pollution. No option is gonna be without cost so why not invest the little extra to have no more costs and all the perks that come with it like no noise or fumes. Costs are part of life and the way we manage them is through our priorities. If anything is enough of a priority it can be achieved and excuses like not being able to afford it are only valid when you consider all the other things being afforded that may not be necessary. Absolutely none of us in the western world can say we live on the bare bones because we don't survive on less than $10 a day as 900 million Chinese and so many others around the world do. There's always things to be sacrificed. It just comes down to what are you willing to sacrifice. It should also be noted that no one has the right to tell you that you don't sacrifice enough unless your actions are actually causing them harm. We all have our own lives and can choose to live them how we do. You just don't have the right to say you installed solar panels to save the environment but you chose a gas generator during night time to save money. Those are oposites.
iMeatbag but thats what they are saying, they morgaged their homes to have solar installed with a false premise that it will save them money. they would need costly batteries and even more panels to go off the grid. the power from the grid is coal, so they cant claim its green. they were sold false promises from solar, its just not there yet. it has come a long way but they went in too soon. it would make perfect sense if the sun never went down.
Can we all agree that Elon is the good guy?
+Travis Devereux Absolutely
I would follow that man into hell
+Arvin Singh Right. I think it is clear which billionaire will triumph. Half the age and double the IQ. It's like Elon's a baby-T-Rex hiding in the crocodile pit, and the crocs think he is one of them ;-)
+Will Darling Elon isn't even a billionaire lmfao Elon spends his own personal money to change to world.
+Ni Yao In net worth, they are both billionaires.
Its not the biggest nuclear reactor in the universe
lol right?
+coda s not even the biggest in this galaxy
Sidowse Its the only one in our solar system really. So it is also the smallest.
who cares. fuck
+coda s Thanks, I was also a bit horrified when I heard that. A bit like confusing ones back yard or pocket with the whole universe.
Well damn good thing Tesla energy has the new solar roof system and 14kWh battery pack now. Elon keeps saying there is a place for the utility grid and thinks he right because he will be the grid. :) I think Musk will win in the end because technology can only get better and cheaper.
triad6425 well said well said! Buffet is profiting off a market imbalance. Musk's technology balances the market by giving consumers back their power (and power).
Well, that has it's cost too. A study looking at the increased cost on solar from a change in charges found that it would cost the average AZ solar house $67 per month in increased fees. If you got 2 14kWh battery pack with is what most need, it will run you $12K plus tax, but will likely to replace the battery in about 10 years. Or $1,200 per year or $100 per month. Cheaper to stay on grid in that case. Hopefully, the price of the batteries will fall and this will be cheaper, but also the unities and solar groups are in talks and will likely charge less then the $67 per month but more then the $0 they pay now.
yep Musk is the future, he HAS to be, otherwise the planet is screwed!
As with technology, the price will gradually decrease over time. What's to take from here is that we're moving forward by not harming planet earth.
Hear, hear.
Purchase Lithium Ion batteries and get off the grid all together...fuck the utility companies!
solar + battery storage systems = no more large utility monopoly.
As cost and efficiency for panels and storage improves, this problem will disappear in the coming decade and a half, but boy what a dick move by Nevada.
ELON MUSK FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He wasnt bon in the US
President of South Africa , you mean ? He is South African
change the rules get him in there and Make America Innovate Again!
Fedor Amuricano obama was fuckn kenyan and still became president. What makes you think elon is illegal? Fuck moron
Jpk Channel musk isnt illegal, he is just not what they call a "natural american citizen". and obama is. because he was born in hawaii. as an american.
This. "Biggest nuclear reactor in the universe, the sun."
Our sun is definitely bigger than the others... they're so tiny when you see them in the night sky! If you shoot for the moon, if you fail, you'll end up amongst the stars, as they saying goes... LOL
The biggest nuclear reactor in our solar system is more accurate.
Not even close...it's the biggest in our tiny Solar system...
i thought warren was a good guy but this proves me wrong, he's no different from those greedy guys at oil companies like Tony Hayward.
+Tail finz Im inclined to say the same, but he's an investor in the company. They don't say if he's the majority investor or not. It also depends on the management, its their decision to make. Only if buffet holds majority of the voting shares and then voted for this to happen would it be his doing.
ethical investors have the power to protest there holdings. Buffet could speak out against the company. Maybe even get some airtime on the news. As someone who wants to give 99% of his earnings to Charity that could be an ethical move for him. Yet at the same time in some cases a company can be manged completely different to how its shareholders wanted which is why it is important to tarnish a firms reputation, so that the roots for change can happen.
good guy? no fucking billonaire is good boy, they are not idiot, they dont care about scum like other people
+Enrique Peres I dunno... Warren Buffet has always seemed pretty decent to me. Apart from anything else, he's always lived comparatively moderately (ie, like a millionaire rather than a billionaire) and he's arranged for practically all his money to be given away after his death, less enough for his children to be comfortable (they've always worked). Better still, he's no Koch brother climate denialist. I'm disposed to give him the benefit of the doubt and think he probably isn't aware of this until I get proof to the contrary.
Where is the objective evidence that Warren Buffett made this decision? He's a shareholder in the company, that doesn't directly mean that he makes the decisions, management does.
Elon will win. Elon is the planet-scale visionary and eats buffet for breakfast. Buffet just got the accumulating wealth equation quite right.
+Philip Fifi Bachinger [Homer Simpon voice] Mmmmmm breakfast buffet.
lmiddleman muahahaAHAHAHHA evil laughing
+Philip Fifi Bachinger Buffet has the corrupt American government on his side, that is hard to beat. Elon has been lucky in his battles, and has narrowly won a few of them, but if he loses one of his "bets", he is done. Buffet has money to burn, and the government has no fucks to give.
I see what you did there. Buffet, like Warren Buffet, but Elon eats him like a buffet. Hehehehe.
buffet is worth 3x more than musk
Get off the grid, store your energy and they won't have any other choice after while but to offer you a fair deal in order to get you back. And, my God, how BAD they'll need you back. It's not an easy fight, you people will face el. cuts due to tech. disadvantages but maybe worth fighting.
I unfortunately even if these people bought storage (which as it stands is a huge cost) they'd still get charge something like a grid access fee. What doesn't make sense is why utilities don't co-operate, they'd have to worry less about supplying peak demands (which are more expensive to produce).
Artem Efremov It is simple bulling of ordinary people. The only way is to physically disconnect from the grid and they can not make you liable for the cost of operating it. That leaves you with the limited energy supply and, as you said, HUGE cost of storing the energy. It is a tuff spot you people are in now because of these fuckers. Stay strong, there must be a solution somewhere.
Then, the grid gets to face that once people have invested their money in that equipment, they're not going to switch if off. They will from then on, only use a fraction of the electricity they would have before the utilities priced themselves out of the market.
@@ArtyMcFly A certain hook up fee is appropriate. They need to pay the linemen to restore power when weather hits. However, that is a fixed monthly fee, regardless of how much (or how little)electricity you use. You have total control over that, and even more when you have a battery and a solar array.
Elon Musk against big car industry. Now he against big electric company. But time always change. Even Rome fell
He only needs to make the powerwalls fast enough and cheap enough to be feasible for people to go off-grid. Then we can show Buffet the middle finger.
Danni Ariseno he challenged the banking system early on in his career in the 90s too.. and That's a big no no.. but He's still alive so fuck he's a smart cookie
nope Tesla isnt against the big car industry but the governement and the oil industry moron
wow that gets me heated
ellon musk will make it possible to go completely off-grid and by-pass all of these regulations.
There a bigger stars in the universe than our sun just saying
FocusMrbjarke what does that have to do with anything
The lady at the beginning; said our sun was the biggest nuclear reactor in the universe (it's not).
Daniel Luby watch the video
She probably meant stars in general, but yeah.
It's the only star that could serve any function to us for a long long time.........
It might as well be, for now.
So this is where the NZ power companies got their idea to charge higher rates to homes installed with solar.
Some are but not all. Their future is threatened by something like this so I guess they see it as survival.
America. where utility companies are owned by a single individual.
superspoon0 lmao
It I too
This is why monopolies suck
since this video is almost 3 years old, i was wondering if we could get an update on the situation.
Better not piss off Hulk.
Biggest nuclear reactor in the universe.... our tiny.. tiny Sun... lol
+aaron4820 er, in the solar system
DubstepDinosaurs She said universe... hence the lol.
+aaron4820 I did not laugh, i cringed.
big power will struggle..... but it will loose its clear as the sky on a sunny day...... solar roof plus power wall and middle finger to buffet
*Similar happened in Spain.*
The Spanish electric companies did put an extra fee of 10€ per 1Kw of potential to pay for their grid. Like 10 * 3 = for 3Kw of potential supply + the actual electricity bill on top of that,
That is a fee for subsidizing the cable network.
The solution is to have a contract with the very lowest potential Kwh from the grid, and get the difference form the battery + solar.
"..solar customers mooching and not paying their fair share to maintain the grid"? Seriously do any public officials take any basic course in economics..? It's a change in demand. If the grid isn't needed, it's not needed and the resources made to maintain it will get distributed elsewhere. Legislation like this depresses me.
CrashCourseCode amen!
Buy couple of Tesla power wall. And go off grid.
If Thomas Edison cannot beat Nikola Tesla at a time when he was dirt-poor and helpless(AC won against DC), how can Buffet think he actually has a fighting chance against Tesla's reincarnation who has accumulated around 10 billion USD. I know Buffet is way richer, but come on; genius is genius.
😄😄😄😄😄😄
I'm not sure of the "legalities" of it, but if you are a solar panel home owner in Nevada, and assuming your panels produce enough electrical energy for you to adequately live/survive... THEN CUT THE POWER COMPANY WIRE TO YOUR HOUSE?
Just disconnect from the grid, the only thing you need is a few more batteries.
Valken Unfortunately many utility companies have laws in place so customers have to be connected to them. I live in AZ and that's how it is here. But if the utilities keep trying to screw with the consumers "right" to choose what company that they get their electricity from, then SolarCity will stop playing nice and find ways around these laws and start investing more into their batteries. If other states start to go the corrupt route that Nevada has then SolarCity fight back harder than ever
Zachary Shumway
Cut the energy line and don't tell anyone. Collect the rain water and don't tell anyone. If they come to your door complaining, then there's Speronis precedent. She won, so can the rest of us. The more people win, the less will be the shackles of government on us.
Let me see if I have understood this correctly; in the USA there are laws that force a homeowner to be connected to the grid? What happens if you refuse?
Robert Neal
Nothing. They control us by fear. Speronis was accused of fire safety issues, they even tried to claim that she abused her dogs to force her to connect to the grid. Guess what? She's happily at home now. The government is a bully, don't give in and he will go away.
+Zachary Shumway "Unfortunately many utility companies have laws in place"
Sorry. Those laws are unenforceable. Customers do not work for a utility. Utilities have no authority over individuals' private property.
we have the same thing going on in florida. we already have mandatory hook up requirements for power in some cities and counties and they are trying to pass an amendment to make grid hook up fees seperate from the power bill so they can take the home owner profit out of putting up panels
Voting Trump as you next president won't exactly help your case :(
Timo Grönroos There are bigger issues at play than solar. Those need attention too. Hopefully we get some "get out of my business" injected to how things are run at the Federal and State level and maybe the solar issue will shake loose.
+Timo Gronroos Obviously. Insane crazy mental defectives threw away their vote on Trump because they actively wish to destroy America. Period.
Very well made video, it was like watching a documentary. Interesting to see the power struggle between small homeowners and huge Warren Buffett. Looks like it's the people vs. Warren Buffett.
+Pete Puebla That's assuming the Nevada power company is following Warren Buffett's
personal instructions. Buffett runs a holdings company which owns vast
shares in hundreds of companies. Therefore he and/or his representatives
are on the boards of directors of each of those companies. However, he
is not personally running any of the companies which Berkshire/Hathaway
has a stake it. He and his executives certainly have influence in them.
But there are many people who could be the authors of these cutthroat
tactics. If Buffett even knows about these things, and if he does he
might not approve of them, but because he is not personally running the
Nevada power company, he cannot make them do one thing or another.
Berkshire/Hathaway could sell off their shares and the power company
could still go on doing what it's doing. I know it sounds like I'm
defending Warren Buffett. Maybe he is guilty. I'm just trying to point
out that this is not a simple Musk vs. Buffett situation, and if people
want to change it they need to be addressing the right people.
shame on Buffet! that's disgusting!
This is the side of Buffett that most people in the world don't know. He's a business man like most others and a ruthless one at that. How'd you think he became so rich? Wasn't investing in rainbows and hearts.
Warren buffet is a Clinton. u know what I mean. Clinton global initiative. hahahahah
Congratulations on this major achievement in the delivery of green energy!
Thank you for being part of this project.
Mega Solar Power Plant Benban Aswan Egypt.
Is it just me or this feels like the same scenario when Thomas Edison tried to abuse his power to ruin Nikola Tesla's new and better technologies.
buffet vs musk. shit is about to go boom
My vote is on Musk.
I vote for Musk also. New technology, smarter guy, better vision.
My money is on Musk, but not after a few ups and downs me thinks!
buffet didn't get to where is by being nice ya know... he has massive invested interest in oil
Is there an update on this?
This is why Tesla Powerwall is a game changer. You don't sell electricity to the grid. You make power for yourself.
One sentence explanation: "I'm upset I can't make money off of subsidies from taxpayers."
Land of the free... my ass!!!
This is 2018, what happened eventually? Anybody knows or can point to a recent source?
What happens when the grid goes down, do the owners of rooftop panels pay to replace utility poles and such? I have rooftop panels by the way. I live in Massachusetts.
well the solar city customers can invest another 5 grand in there new solar city battery system. I'm waiting for the tech. in the panels to be more efficient.
Trump would say Buffet is an amazing business man.
Brian Delgado and he'd be right.. buffett is an amazing businessman. But being a great businessman is about making money at any cost, even the citizens cost
Those who can afford it should double down and get 100% off the grid. Fuck the utilities.
What is the price difference when it comes to installing the solar panel
price to maintain the grid is built into the cost per kwh. if you produce a kwh and than take one back at night, someone still has to pay to maintain the grid. if you have to pay the difference than solar at its current state doesnt make financial sense. making the power is cheap, getting it to your house is where the cost is. get batteries or a generator and disconect or suck it up and pay for the service that you are using.
I want to live in Nevada *said no one ever*
people can’t afford 10s of thousands of dollars, but they can afford the $.02 of energy from a nuclear power plant...
What happens if you don't pay your power bill?....... Eventually your grid connection is cut. Can the utility then stop you from being off grid?
The Sun is not the biggest nuclear reactor in the Universe. The Sun is the biggest nuclear reactor in the Solar System. Get your astronomical facts straight woman.
Ahh....Western Union, Alexander Graham Bell, Nikolai Tesla and Thomas Edison are at war again for the future, but their customers all get screwed in the meantime.
Nevada power is correct that one of the biggest costs of running a power company is maintaining the grid delivery system to you. Also they have to refit the grid to correctly handle and even store bidirectional power. Grids don't store power, they were simply designed to push it. You store power by keeping water behind a dam or running the traditional power plants at lower output during low consumption times. Sun and wind produce when they want to, not when it is needed most.
Physics is a bitch sometimes. Easy to dream. Harder to do. The future of solar has to be NO GRID. No power company. Can we accomplish that?
Be careful riding the edge of a change wave. These customers just had a wipe out. Let the billionaires prove it first.
I’m shocked. Buffett was always portrayed as moral and kind
what source of power does buffet Provide? coal or hydro or ?
But Elon Musk has made the deal with Nevada state governor to build Gigafactory with state money.
+Teemu M. Powered by solar too
+Teemu M. Wrong. Tesla is paying for the factory. Nevada is simply cutting them some tax breaks on the land they are building on, along with other incentives, but spread out over something like 15 years. The state has been helpful to Tesla in this, no doubt, but they are not paying for any of it!
we should just make africa one big solar power plant
To your point, it's not only probable, but fully possible...
www.businessinsider.com/map-shows-solar-panels-to-power-the-earth-2015-9
Question: can a couple of entrepreneurs open a utility company that use a solar powered system to provide energy to houses? I understand being off the grid can be illegal, but being a monopoly is too, right?
Several large solar farms tied to the national grid should be the way to go.
its musk vs buffets monopoly and coke bros. coal and bill gates nuclear-power. .
Matthew Kohen Koch*
Sorry.. i was thinking of something else..
Matthew Kohen Power plants don't have competition because they are a necessity. In LA you pay the DWP and no other provider because there is no other provider. Solar panel would be its competitor. If you have taken economics you would actually learn that power plants don't have competition so they are regulated by the government so they don't ripoff people too much even though you get ripped off anyway.
Matthew Kohen but all in all no matter what energy provided, it will always end up a monopoly which sucks!
I agree with you. But I was talking worldwide. Whoever controls the energy controls everything. That's why it's a petro-dollar
Well that was massively uninformative for an 8 minute video. Didn't even throw in any perspectives of the opponents, or even any of the very pragmatic difficulties that solar does face. It's important to know that stuff to solve the problem. This report wouldn't have made solar feel as attractive if it actually showed the full scope of the situation - which, I understand that they're trying to give it a good image, but to me, responsible media doesn't have an agenda. Shit, who's to say that solar hype and attention to tech repression isn't another sketchy business tactic that's equally as unethical on the other end? Elon seems like a great guy but that's easy when you're young and full of good intentions. Watch everyone call him a corrupt businessman when he's older and starts to have to make decisions on things that nobody will like the outcome of. Or maybe not. Should be interesting.
What exactly is difficult to understand about the "other side" of the argument? Is greed a difficult concept for you to comprehend?
A few years ago, I was the highest bidder on a BLM land bid for a Northern Nevada geothermal sale. With the backing of ORMAT Energy for a 9 megawatt plant, the CPU and Sierra Pacific Power fought both, tooth and nail, to a point we gave up!
Is now 1.5 year latter.. How is the situation in Nevada?
The power companies do not want you to put solar on your rooftop. They want you to use their hyper-inefficient old rusting crap.
What horrible reporting. Does not examine the crux of the issue and oh so briefly mentions the utilities challenges, regulatory constraints, etc. A shallow puff piece looking to tug at heartstrings. The whole Buffett vs. Musk promotion is misplaced as well. Despicable.
derty.QWERTY42°N -- I am not supporting one position over the other (i.e. Homeowners vs. Utilities). What I am commenting upon is the poor and shallow reporting that highlights anecdotal reports and fails to go into the positions of the opposing views at any length. Furthermore, positioning the piece as Buffett vs. Musk is spurious.
+FormulaWill Well they gotta sell those newspapers somehow...
FormulaWill what do you believe are the challenges to the utilities posed by installing solar panels?
LoveMyAbeshaWomen the issue is with net metering and a sufficiently large array you can pay zero for electricity, and yet the grid is your backup. You pull from the grid whenever you need power at night or when the sun is covered or when you need more power when the PV can't provide enough, and feed it power you don't need. They have to balance loads, maintain cables, use smaller, less efficient generators that actually pollute much more to compensate for much larger peaks and valleys of power throughout the day due to solar. All that costs money, and a PV owner wants someone else to pay for that. If you wants solar, you should also be required to deal with all the massy business of saving energy in battery banks and using it when you need it. That's what the Tesla Powerwall does, but it's too expensive compared to other solutions. I have a house that's completely off the grid. It requires changes in lifestyle and being more careful with power. When you go off the grid, you very quickly realize how much work maintaining the grid really is. It's not a simple question, but this video paints it with a very broad brush.
Bogdan Ryabyshchuk I agree that it's not really simple. I am an electrical engineer who actually performs complex engineering studies on the grid and the impact of solar on distribution systems. These small rooftops are usually not a problem. The complexity arises when you're dealing with utility scale solar farms (1 MW and above). But we really do very conservative studies to make sure that any adverse impact on the grid due to solar interconnections is mitigated prior to the solar farms going online. I have the impression that you probably already know what I'm talking about.
what exactly was the change?
would the "powerwall" solve that problem?
Background music in the beginning is Time To Run by Dexter Britain
Norwegian here who struggle to understand how the power delivery system works in the US. Here in Oslo, Norway I can choose between 208 power companies to deliver electricity to me. So how come come there is just ONE company to get electricity from in all of Nevada? I thought the US was all about the free market. We are supposed the be the crazy socialists over here in Scandinavia :-D But we got one big electric market so Norway sells hydroelectric power to e.g. Denmark or buy wind power form them when they produce a lot. We had market based trading in power since the 80s or so.
Why would Nevada opt for Soviet style monopolies for power delivery. Isn't free competition better?
I'm a huge Musk fan and Green energy supporter but I feel Buffet is being portrayed as the villain when he has little to do with this. If you know anything about his investments it's that he leaves managers in place to run things he doesn't do much hands on unless there are major problems with the company. Blame the upper management at NV Energy for the proposals they are pushing, they are simply trying to make their business more profitable at solar expense which isn't right. Still this isn't on Warren Buffet his company invested and has a controlling stake in NV but he didn't write up this agenda. Anymore than Bill Gates is responsible for Windows Vista which pissed the world off
In Sweden we get two bills, a fixed amount for the grid which is run by government, and a variable one for usage, which can be from the supplier of your choice. That would take care of this problem?
Why would you give the power back to the grid?? Doesn't make any sense!!! Install a couple of deep cycle batteries and power your home directly from your rooftop solar, disconnect from the grid!!!
"The biggest nuclear reactor in the universe" umm no
Is this the reason for the Tesla - Solar City Merger? With Tesla's Gigafactory, Tesla is the biggest investor in Nevada. Perhaps that will lend weight to the reversal of this policy.
Song is "The Time to Run" by Dexter Britain, in case anyone is wondering. I know it tends to be the first question to come to my mind
Even without counting negative externalities, solar beats current power grid anyday !
The distribution companies are prepared to pay home owners with grid-connected solar panels the going rate of any generation company. As such it isn't 1:1, but rather you will sell to the grid at a much lower price during over-supply than the price it is to be bought back later in the day. Disconnecting won't necessarily solve the problem, because one may be charged to maintain the network whether connected or not.
"The biggest nuclear reactor in the universe"
I guess she hasn't heard of UY Scuti.
Harold McMaster was a genius
He started first solar and held more than a 100 patent to his name in inventions that are environment friendly
Yet all you hear is Buffett
why don't the home owners install batteries?
I am seeing the PV panels springing up in my area. The State was giving 80% tax rebates. My inner skeptic STILL sees problems. My questions.
1) What if the roof goes bad...now you must pay for take down and reinstall of the PVs.
2) What about a major hail storm....impact resistance?
3) Lack of cooperation from utility cos or reneging on former cooperation and killing payback.
4) Does the power output depreciate with time?...loss of efficiency due to UV degradation.
5) What if the PVs fail prematurely...terms of warranty?...My insulating windows were lifetime warrantied...The scuzzball company went out of business, so any repair or replacement is ON ME. And, that's IF I can get parts that fit.
6) What if the PV installers screw up your roof to the point where it needs major repairs by a reputable, qualified roofer...good roofers are EXPENSIVE!
The local utility monopolies are fighting against solar when in reality we should have all forms of energy competing with each other in the country!
A friend of mine whom has had Solar City for about 2 years regret doing it. It was easier to put right by the panels and hooking the entire system to battery backup and power up the house on an alternative circuit. He hasn't paid for electricity in over a year. This shit has also been a problem in California with Edison. It's not illegal to have power backup. It's how it's worded and how it pass code. Don't do what my friend has done unless you plan on retiring in that home.
Similar thing is happening in New Zealand :( We get panellised for using solar power.
I want to buy your editor and producer a drink. Well done.
You would -think- it'd be in NPUC's interest to just, you know, compete. By providing their own solar leasing.
But hey, what do I know?
So how did this turn out?
Huh... If Warren buffet and Elon musk worked together wouldn't they made a great team? More solar, more business, more money. And he is doing a great deed for future generations.
part 2 follow up?
Great piece of real journalism. Way to go Bloomberg
Essentially by changing the rules after people have installed solar panels is changing their contract. No one including Warren Buffet has any right to interfere in someone's prior agreement and/or contracts. Warren Buffet should be fined huge sums of money anytime a home owner is affected by ANY new rules. Going solar should be encouraged and it has a positive effect on the environment.
I am a solar installer and use to work for Solar City. Big money and politics involved in that business. Always a war. Oil money bags won't let it go. But the future will win. People not udiots,they can see what is better to them. We just have to fight together,make our voice loud and clear.
I've helped 12 homes get installed with solar at no upfront cost. They payed zero for the service including survey installation design hookup. 30 days later the homeowners get an electric bill 30% less then they payed last month. The family can generate their own power and pay less for clean power. Simple smart better.