Bullies in the Pulpit
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2025
- Bullies. We’ve all encountered them on the playground. But what happens when you encounter them in your church?
In this edition of The Roys Report, joining Julie to talk about bullies in the pulpit is Paul Coughlin, an expert on bullying and a best-selling author and speaker.
Contrary to popular opinion, Paul says bullies aren’t typically “wounded” people who are seeking to ease their pain. They’re prideful predators with contempt for others. And the only way to stop them is for bystanders to courageously take a stand.
As founder of The Protectors, an organization that helps organizations and communities combat bullying, Paul has significant practical insights for identifying and dealing with the problem of bullying by pastors.
Plus, in this podcast, he shares details about close encounters he’s had with two bully pastors-Mark Driscoll of The Trinity Church and Jon Courson of Applegate Christian Fellowship.
Lord, don't let the church world separate me from your presence.
I was married to a narcissistic, bullying pastor for 21+ years. He was educated by John MacArthur at the Master's Seminary. I stayed home with my 6 children for all those years, homeschooled them, and supported the ministries of our churches so that all my husband had to do was stand in the pulpit and preach. After he was fired from ministry positions for the fourth time for arrogance, pride and an unteachable spirit, the scales fell from my eyes. I began to stand up to his bullying. His response was to file for divorce six days later. Since then he has poisoned 5 of my 6 children against me and I have no relationship with them. In the years following my divorce my faith took a nosedive, and I engaged in all kinds of wanton sin. Thankfully the Lord never gave up on me. I repented, and I am now enjoying a loving, healthy relationship with Jesus, my new church and my new husband. Your channel has been helpful in helping me think through what I went through. Podcasts like yours, and many years of good counseling have helped heal my heart and mind. It will be a lifetime of work to heal fully.
I’m so very sorry at the loss of relationship with your other 4 children. 😢. I know you no doubt did everything for your kids. These people do so much damage.
Joe Swigart?
When you said he was educated by John MacArthur you hit the nail on the head where the problem in your husband came from MacArthur is the king of the bullies behind the pulpit
Wow! I hope your kids come back to you. My Jeckyl & Hyde, husband turned both of mine against me, & it sucks.
@benelias3556 Everyone is accountable for their own actions. I'm sure there are decent God fearing people who had graduated from the same place.
My pastor attacked me from the pulpit because I post stuff against the New Age movement which I see growing in the church in my FB page I speak in general not my church specifically. He was a beast making stuff up like me being jealous of a sister he promoted to minister who I'm sure is a witch, but this is not true I'm not even a member nor want to be because I want to go somewhere else. He also said I was extremely hurt as a child and had develop a spirit of criticism, I was hurt he knows this but for years I wake up to thank God for the total healing of my soul. The Holy Spirit was awesome to me I didn't cry or loose my cool, praise God.
same here, i post a lot of anti new age and NAR content on my FB page. the pastor designed a sermon specifically for shaming me called identifying the religious spirit. He also accused me of being jealous of a girl in church that he held at high regard but the girl was abusive to church members to the extent that many people left the church because of her. She is narcissistic and has witch vibes, she would come into my room, give me clothes but at night i would dream of her attacking me with some black paint. no matter how people told the pastor how this girl was abusive and was coming at people at night, the pastor would deny it and say you are jealous. The pastor also said i have mother issues and i have had a hard childhood thats why im hard on people and not loving. so in these types of churches, its their thing, they deflect. they dont take responsibilities for their actions they blame you for bringing a concern up. its like a trend in these churches. Witches are protected and anything mentioned against them you get Bullied and shamed. but im glad this is coming up, and im also glad God healed me and i didnt lose my cool. i left the church and i blocked the pastors
@@yourregularspontie8587 good for you! Churches should be loving safe environments.
@@yourregularspontie8587 Sounds like you've bought into the NAR hysteria
Back in the 80's when I first was saved I read the book by Dave Hunt called, "The Seduction of Christianity". I took it to my pastor and I am thankful he read it and with patience told me it wasn't all going off the cliff. False teaching has always been part of the church which is why we must constantly keep referring everything to God's Word. God bless you for doing this.
@@vanmoody Thank you, all the glory to God. I still haven't found another church but I'm glad I'm no longer there though I miss everyone.
Thank you. Keep exposing unqualified leaders harming people.
I’ve met my share of bullies. They love to refer to themselves as apostles. So many of the “apostles” I’ve known over the years are really narcissists & predators. The abuse they cause is astounding. May the truth be exposed so God’s people can heal.
Courage _is_ contagious! THANK you!
14 years in a marriage with a covert narcissist and also attended a cult-like church where the leaders and pastors were untouchable....God used it to take a wrecking ball to everything that church had taught me about God, Jesus, serving, worship, being _used_ by them (not God), a lot of what was taught was more; monkey-see monkey-do....
God tore down all these men and women off of the pedestals in my heart and He now stands on that spot, praise God!
My heart breaks thinking of everyone who had/has permanently walked away from God and their faith due to church spiritual abuse. My now husband-(also a narcissistic abuse survivor and survivor of a huge church fall- Jim and Tammy Baker) pray for all of these victims and survivors~ it's an honor to pray for them and these leaders who are so far away from God....we fear for their souls!
Thanks again, Julie!! ♥️🙏🏻 God bless you and all your guests speaking out!
A serial bully should never be allowed again in a pulpit EVER! -- powerful truth and advice.🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Its time for the megachurch model to die and go away. This model attracts the wolves in droves for various reasons and in turn the "church" becomes the wolfs lair. Once in the wolf defends what it has taken for himself and as we all see everyone and anyone who is in opposition to him, her, them (the wolf) is most certainly attacked by the entire wolf pack apparatus. Driscoll, MacDonald epitomize this the best. Great line "Bullies always lie" with a bible in one hand.
No, pride goes before Destruction and a haughty look before a Fall.
So thankful for you Julie and your courage to speak the truth in love! May the Lord continue to use you to bring light in the darkness , truth in the midst of deception and healing to the body of Christ❤
The line dividing good and evil runs through the heart of every person.
Thank you, Julie for having the courage to speak up for the victims of abuse. This is of God. I’m so glad this is all being exposed. I grew up in church and even as I child I had many questions about unchristian conduct and verbal abuse. I was taught not ask questions. Now I am getting educated on how to speak out against abuse and bullying. I have a long ways to go but am getting stronger every day. God is raising up an army to expose the sin in the pulpits and giving the courage to people like you to stand up and speak out against the atrocities and the damage wolves are committing against humanity and innocent people. Many have found healing through your ministry and other ministries like yours. I had been praying for ministries like this and I am barely finding out that God has raised you and other ministries for such a time as this. Lots of people will find the help they need. Thank you, thank you and God bless you.
It's amazing and shocking the disconnect these narcissists display between what they officially recognise and claim to be the truth - showing a compassionate nature, a knowledge of right and wrong, a sense of justice - and how they act out in private, which reveals they no nothing of these things and don't apply them in their own lives. It's like they are Jekyl and Hyde.
Friends, spiritual abuse is so normalized in the church that many cannot see it. Even trying to make videos to call it out is hard when you have been desensitized; not to mention all the pushback afterwards. The church has a lot of work to do and it starts with the courage to speak up!
Outstanding, informative, heart and thought provoking. (Tho a very sad state of affairs) God loves His church. Please help us be attentive Holy Spirit and be courageous to respond when required.
Appreciate this good bold content.
As an spiritual abuse victim this just spoke to me so much. I am still having therapy. I was victimised when I spoke up all over again and that is why so many do not speak up.
One time when these two guys were bullying someone I asked them “why are you doing this? You so obviously have everything?” He said “ we are just having fun
My husband and I were bullied and abused over the last 20 years. Two churches were involved. Both churches had pastors who could not entertain a theology that differed from their own. Abusive practices included secret, impromptu meetings where his "henchmen" shamed us verbally for an hour.
We were targeted, demonized, publicly humiliated from the pulpit.
I really believe this practice is more widespread that we think. And it's not just mega-churches. We were in small congregations where pastors were independent with no oversight.
My husband and I were in the height of the "Discipleship Movement" of the '70s where bullying pastors were at their peak. I'm sorry to say--in my humble opinion--this is never going to stop. A whole crop of these jerks go down, and a new generation pops up. Bottom line is $$$. As long as it flows in to keep these churches alive, and start new ones, all of these practices will continue. I live in a small city, and I am amazed at all of these inter-denominationial churches that keep popping up. There's a scandal and the church splits. The pastor is "restored" or his son takes over the church.
Thanks Julie for your heart and courage to do the work your doing to see change in the body of Christ! May God bless you and protect you ❤️🙏
it doesnt only happen in churches. it happens in plenty of "ministries". case in point. i have a friend who wanted to join the navigators and do campus ministry and she applied her senior year. tom young, the director of the college division in the organization for months had her believe that they were working on a place for her. THE WEEK BEFORE SHE GRADUATED another worker called her and told her she should forget about the navigators (his words) and they never actually had a place for her. turns out tom young was just using her information to stick in his newsletter to make himself look more diverse so he could please his donors. he even told her black people wont listen to the gospel unless another black person tells them! real diverse. even after the navigators were informed, they said they'd "look into it". aka they just asked him, he said no, and it was over. they alleged they had no evidence. praise God He blessed her with a much better career path. but seriously, these so-called ministries are a joke. they only minister to themselves. no accountability whatsoever.
Absolutely disgusting.
Right on and again right on. It does not matter as they are all 501 c 3 non-profit corporations whether they call themselves a church or a Ministry they are not in anointed Ministry. It's all carnal masked over with spiritual sounding names and words and catchy phrases. In the end it usually boils down to one of two things or both pride and Mammon
If you think that’s bad you should look into InterVarsity. My husband worked for them and they are wicked. They promote new age mysticism and the camp where we worked hosted meditations and hypnotic prayer.
@@benelias3556
Sadly, today’s “church” looks NOTHING like the early followers of our Messiah. The enemy has successfully infiltrated and created a system that reflects the world… aka, the “Christian beast system”.
Father always has a remnant… They have been in the fire… being trained, humbled, purged and prepared. HE will have HIS way… in HIS timing. But I believe it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
Our hope? Find refuge in Him (in the secret place) and HIM alone. 🙏
Isaiah 2:22
Jeremiah 17:5-8
Thank you for this episode. It really spoke to me in regards to the bullying I went through at church and at home as well. I'm not sure which is worse. These are the two places where we need to be able to have healthy, trustworthy relationships the most.
Keep up the good work.
Very astute observations by both the host and her guest. Thank you both for taking the time to help educate us about this issue.
Wow great program. This of course reminds me of Joni Lamb and Jimmy Evans.
I have also been around a lot of women bullies in the church as well .
I don’t think female bullies are brought up as often because female preachers aren’t common. But, I have been kicked out of a women’s Bible study for disagreeing with the pastor on a sermon topic, and I totally agree that this is a very real thing. 😊
I just ordered his book. My only problem is the lack of using scriptures and Gods counsel when dealing with enemies. I am looking forward to reading this book, I had a horrible experience at a church. Thank you
Quality content and very useful information.
Julie, you are making a difference. I am praying for you.
So, so good. Thank you both. Yes, abused people need hope ... and I hope some day to see you in Croatia.
Yes bullies are FULL OF DISDAIN AND CONTEMPT .
I believe two things must be in place. There must be leaders of character and discipleship. If a leader is not making disciples then there is no fruit. Character must precede giftedness.
Julie: I feel very despairing about the state of the Church.
Me: You and me both.
Thanks for elucidating your insights, especially about the adulation. I worked for a well known Christian leader and we did global and public work. My direct “boss” had his own polished reputation and was fawned over by hundreds and tens of hundreds of the rich and famous. I was honored to be a part of the ministry and I worked hard wearing many hats, running out office. I was pivotal but very much behind the scenes, although I attended major functions like conference, national prayer breakfast and the like. When my boss and his wife finally realized I didn’t worship him, but expected to be treated like a peer and with reward and respect, that was not acceptable. The message was: “you don’t need anything from us. You should be grateful to have this opportunity to be so close to greatness.” The arrogance was shocking and sickening. I’ve seen a lot in these circles.
Come on preach more... time to expose all the abusers and the bullies 😣
Julie, you are the voice of reason that so many of us, who were abused by our church, rely upon. Independently of each other, we realize we're in a toxic church when victim shaming is rampant. Ive been residing in a fundamental background my entire life and I can honestly say that I've never seen nor heard of a worse church than John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in Sunland, CA. So many wounded and battered Christians eventually defect from that cult and are left tragically scarred for life. There is nothing "Christ like" about that church but there's plenty of Pharisaical behavior running amok amongst it's pastoral staff and other leaders. There's no such thing as regular, loving and Biblical counseling. Those who attend there regularly and don't take the word of God seriously, aren't in need of any counseling. But those who do and make the misstep of seeking it out at Grace, are immediately shamed and told the problems with them and their unredeemed heart. Even if a child is gravely ill and the parent turns to a pastor for counsellor and guidance, they're told that their belief in God is questionable since they're distraught and dismayed over this. "God has His own plans for this child's life, so why are you questioning it?" Is the norm during those "counseling" (i.e. condemning) sessions. Heaven forbid a married woman seeks out advice on her own. (These rules never apply to the men since they are exempt from all forms of behavioral issues - well... except for Mahoney).
I know a woman who's been tormented and tortured by Grace for years now. She's a long standing member and the pastors all got so tired of hearing about the abuses she was suffering from her unsaved and misogynistic husband, that they soon pawned her off on the women guidance counsellors. That made things even worse for her! She's had a female counselor at her elbow for years now, (much like one of scientology's auditors) trying to ensure that this abused woman continues to stay on her torturous path to the cross the same way that Christ did. In fact, all counseling begins with that analogy. "Why should your life be any easier then Jesus's was?" Is how it's phrased from the start. "We, as believers, are commissioned to suffer" is their mission statement. This woman's husband hasn't even lived in the family home with her and the two children they share, for years now. He's off living in TX with a girlfriend and only returns now and then to his family to try and talk money out of them, to berate his wife and to soon depart back to his life out of state. Yet Grace threatens to excommunicate this woman if she doesn't remain stoically strong amidst her grief and sorrow and she dare not seek out a divorce from him.
Pain, suffering and abuse is expected in life, they say. To complain about it is to question your true faith, belief and walk with Christ. The reason these abused and shamed members don't leave is because Grace Community Church is a cult. You either get out of it somehow or remain under their dictates; there's no middle ground on their turf. Few members can actually leave that church without suffering the residual side effects from the abuse and condemnation.
Thank you for discussing this real issue. ⚘
28:25 - 31:45 This is the thing I've been dealing with for years now, the bully (bullies) comes to mind daily, the helplessness to have prevent any of it happening (and I was speaking up as it was spooling up), and the final conclusion I'm considering now is that I'll never Recover from it, that I'm lifetime damaged and that will never change (barring raw divine grace & divine intervention.) I've lived my whole life thinking "one day this will get better." Yeah, no, that doesn't always happen.
I know this is not the case for most pastors. I wonder if it’s not the format in which we “do church” that breeds these kinds of people. The idea that we need teachers to know God or understand the Bible. Yes we have teachers according to the scriptures until Jesus comes back but what if it’s not supposed to be one guy in a pulpit. What if it’s supposed to be more like 1 Corinthians 14. Where the teachers are in the midst not the focus. Maybe that’s not a popular view but it’s a thought. How can pridefulness not be an issue when the men on the pulpit are also put on a pedestal. That may be the congregations problem also but a true leader points to Christ and they Themselves become small in their own eyes.
I think the best pastors have a thorn in the flesh like Paul the Apostle had, to keep them humble.
The only thing I disagreed with was bullies don't change. All things are possible with God.
True. But they need to humble themselves and seek God's guidance. Most are too arrogant and proud to-do so.
@@Amick44 true
Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves
An enlightening segment. An excellent and very informative guest. ✔️
Thank you, Julie.
Wolves in sheep's clothing. It's astounding the abuse the faithful will allow, will take and will continue to financially support.
Agree. You think they'll repent and 'be good' and it can take years before you realise your minister could be evil.
When I became a Christian, I realized I had to look over the top of the people and look to Christ. People will always let us down but Christ never will. We can’t let our faith in Christ be damaged by broken, sinful people.
Don't come with that BS. That is what bullies and abusers say to manipulate their victims into staying.
It seems as though Bullying and Narcissisism are growing not declining . And self victimization is in these peeps.. pure hate.
The discussion on Cognitive Dissonance was interesting. When a person acts like a Christian on Sunday and then an abusive non-christian on Monday to Saturday, it Hypocrisy.
I’m reminded of Dr. Gene Scott and how he would berate viewers for not giving more money. A study needs to be made on people who seek out bullies as they’re the most likely to join a mind control cult like sheep seeking to follow a wolf.
My father used to send him money. My mother would tell him constantly that he's a false teacher but he didn't listen. He was abusive to her anyway.
Now Scott's equally unqualified wife took over. When my dad sent me a message from her that was supposed to help me get over the death of my mother I told him to stop sending me her messages, she's twisting Scripture.
Thankfully he listened to me.
@@Marlaina I am sorry to hear that.
Some victims can turn bullies themselves to release the frustrations they bottled up over the years or decades the way they were mistreated. They just exploded.
My pastor sued me for calling his elders to investigate allegations the pastor covered up sexual abuse of a minor by a staff member. I wrote a book about it after I also lost my job at a Christian College supported by this mega church.
Title?
@@mombythesea2426 The Irony of Teaching Truth by Prof Lay
@@DouglasPLay-nb9sc I just bought it. What Christian college did you work for? I attended a “Christian” college and was r**** by a soccer player. When I told the administration, they told me it was my fault and forbid me from speaking to the police.
That only made me angry, so I went to the police anyway. And they said since it was a Christian college, and a private school, they were not allowed on campus. They took my report but it never went anywhere.
There’s a lot more to the story but I will never trust another Christian organization again. I’ve been to multiple churches across the country and been involved in multiple ministries. They are all corrupt and full of hypocrites. Not just fallen men, but outright power hungry wolves.
It’s all about “church “ but we set ourselves up / where does our idea of church. The first church I was part of had to form or pattern
We had no’ front. The people spoke and sang by the :
Spirit like an orchestra / god was in charge, god took over - he did what he wanted / it was so beautiful - sometimes we couldn’t speak for an hour - tears would fall down peoples faces and the light of God was in them and on them
Pastors are to strive to teach and rightly divide the scriptures. Granted, the Best of them, ( Robert Breaker, Spencer Smith , Gene Kim, Late Peter Ruckman , Late John R Rice ) will differ on points, but it the duty of every believer to pray and Study daily , which a vast majority of the best of believers, including myself fall short of .
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth
2 Tim 2:15
Most Christians view their leaders in a more celebrity status, I most modern day churches, the performers and worship teams have higher esteem than the Preacher / Teacher
Great conversation as always 👍
I’d be interested in reading more about the “reality” of where bullies/perpetrators come from. I’ll definitely vouch for the notion that bullies/offenders/criminals (this should be obvious) should not be able to have immunity or do some redemption break and go back into lead pastor role. If the church wants to model to the world (and itself) well what Jesus is all about, we can stop allowing for jerks to model Jesus for us. We know better but could always do better.
One pastor I know in the Western States has a shocking dislike of women preachers, and hungers for adulation. Although thousands treat him like a prophet of God I can see he is insecure and blames any criticism of him on the sin of others.. He's very clever and it took me a long time to realise that although he is very well read in the scriptures, his attitude is very punishing and far too aggressive. I fear for the followers of him because they're slaves of him, not servants of a loving Christ. I was horrified to hear he actually advised a wife to return to her husband after he sexually abused their kids. And this kind of cover up of abuse by some churches is critical. 😀❤🙏
JMac, eh?
Female pastors aren't biblical though. I would agree that that shouldn't warrant such ungodly behavior, but it sounds more like he's misusing a biblical truth to fuel his misogyny....making him just as disqualified
@@ericedwards5034 I'm Catholic, and my prayer is you guys learn from our mistakes and sins, not your own!
@@harrybiggmuth2765 I appreciate your sentiment here. I wish we weren't making the mistakes, but since we are we should be able to learn from our mistakes and glean lessons from "your" mistakes. It should all be fuel to make us better followers and representations of Christ.
@@ericedwards5034 Ok, I'll accept that.
faith lives in the finished work and rest in hope
We left a church because our son was being bullied in Sunday school. The pastor there had refused to help. He was a bully himself.
Thank you for this, very helpful
According to Roys, this relationship with a female former student was codependent and involved intense emotional attraction (being without Sarah “killed me”). As Roys was clearly in a position of power in this emotional affair (it was “sabotaging” her marriage), the relationship was (by her definition) spiritual and emotional abuse
That is what I did when I was in school. I believe that is the most effective answer. If the school does it, I think it might actually make it worse for the child. I did it all the time when I was a student
Going thru this right now with Our Former Church! 😢. They Protect the Predator instead of Us as Victims. And laugh about it! Dont give any consequences to the Predator but Welcome him into the Church and keep him as a Member! Disgusting!!!! 💔
It Is those inside the church whom you are to judge
1 Corinthians 5:12
Good Video 👍 👍!!
My pastor bullied me because his wife didn't like me. He attacked me verbally from the pulpit to please his wife.
And women make great bullies too 😞.
Women can be the worst.😢😢😢
I don't know too much about Mark Driscoll but when I first saw him via utube about 8 or 9 years ago, my first impression was that Driscoll looked like an intimidating guy.
He’s intimidating to soft weak men if he poked me the wrong way i promise you he’ll never do it again
@@Mark-v8u8k Same here !
What happened? There are exceptions, but many pastors today are just dripping with pride, and it's rubbing off on the men who follow them.
All seriel bullies lie?
I wish you had been around in the 1980s when I fell under the influence of BIll Gothard and various corrupt Pentecostal leaders. It was quite a toxic mix that ended in my loss of faith and anger with God. Of course there's more to the story.
I attended his Basic seminar by my own choice. The first time I questioned the song of what he said that there were so many good things, or so I thought, that I was willing to overlook it. The second time I felt more uneasy. The third time I went was my last time and after that I was through with it. I never went back. This was a little bit before the purity culture he came as well known as it now I never went back. This was a little while before the purity culture became as well known as it is now. I was fortunate enough to be raised by devoutly Christian parents who taught us to think for ourselves and evaluate what we listen to - add espresso to read the Bible ourselves. Is it stood me in good stead for my entire adult life.
Good talk.
It depends on your definition of bully when you say a majority of pastors are not bullies how about egomaniacs that runs parallel with bullies the majority of pastors are not even Shepherds they're never even been called by God and they are egomaniacs and Mammon lovers
I have figured out over the last few years that I do not have the drive nor the talent to be a cult type leader or bully. It's a lot of hard work to lie a lot and keep track of it all so you don't get caught. I'll just serve Jesus the best I can though Covid has made it harder.
All serial bullies lie ....yes this is true.
I believe it could be a crime of habit eventually. BUT, a crime of perversion of one’s soul. Perversion of who God is and NOT realizing they are not.
The easy-believism acceptance of the Gospel in the Church for the last 40 years, coupled with the breakdown of the family, marinated in the wrong thinking of churches pursuing a "seeker" philosophy of ministry at the expense of a disciplemaking ministry (as Jesus commands), are all tributaries creating environments ripe for power-hungry bullies. I attend a very healthy and life-giving church. When you find a healthy church, make sure to pray for the leadership and encourage the leadership so they can model for other Christians and pastors how to lead well. There are great churches that do model the character and priorities of Jesus. When you find one, tell others.
Legal issues must be considered before recording private behavior. Let us not become What they are. Sometimes such recordings are mean even if legal. Please, be careful with recordings.
Yes, the Lord is with us when we are wounded! I know this first hand!!
The church system In America is filled with these types unfortunately.
Try to be a Berean and stay close to the word. Be bold.
My job is also filled with these types
this makes no sense. what other sin is committed that we say "people never change?" near the end you allude to that we need to have forgiveness as an after thought, then you say "our Lord does not need them," wow
-does this mean that classmates in school never change
-does this mean a sibling that was a bully never changes
-what about a husband and wife where one or the other exhibits narcissistic behavior, they never change?
-how many marriages would end in divorce if we followed this thinking
-how many children would reject their parents if this was their beliefs
-how many families would be broken if we followed this thinking
how many times should we forgive a rude comment or abusive behavior before we give up? I pray it is more than 7 x 77 paul and julie. it is good to be on guard, to speak truth in your local church and in your family, to remind each other of what our life should look like according to the fruits of the spirit and to call out abusive behavior. but it is even better not to make statements about people not being able to change? that is a major error paul. thank goodness, you are not the truth the way and the light, because on this one we would all go astray. lets look to speak truth, build each other, guide each other and above all not giving up on our Christian brothers and sisters as so many others have done, even to the point of basing their livelihood and career on this lie.
They're talking about serial bullies, some of whom have personality disorders such as narcissism which means it's impossible for them to change because they don't have the humility or empathy to truly repent or see the damage they've done to other people. If they can truly realize and be internally sorry for the damage they've done, they would not seek a return to preaching and leadership until they've sorted themselves out, in any case. And the church and parachurch structures should not seek to "forgive" abusers or put them immediately back in positions of power just because they want to sell books or get audiences for the abusers. Character and actions for leaders matter.
I think we should forgive but that person may not be put back into that position. I personally think that the position of pastor can lead to the man being put on a pedestal and pride tears it’s head again. It’s probably a source of their problem.
@@davelyn786 I am not sure, it is complex for sure, but those out there that say there is no forgiveness and we do not need them are completely confused on this subject. sad that so many are quick to condemn knowing they themselves need abounding grace.
They are not presuppositions my friend they are scriptural requirements for a man to be behind a Pulpit calling himself a pastor
We need to not look up to pastors. Their not holy because of their chosen profession. IN FACT THEIR more apt to take advantage of the trust people in give them .
People like Trump in our government give Christians permission to act like bullies.
People who act in an unchristian way just because a so- called "leader" does so are not Christians at all. We are called to imitate Christ, not a leader.
Be a Berean, Acts 17:11. Stand on the word of God and nothing else. Double check everything said to you just like the Bereans double checked Paul.
Nepotism is never good
Even with many helping other's that have been
& continue to be deceived and lied to believe another gospel & another Jesus
Mika Miller is the latest known victim
& many are still quiet, not defending the weak, poor, widows or fatherless.
John Mac he’s the worst
Where is Julie a member of a local church? If no, no credibility.
This guy was really hurt when Jon Courson hung up the phone on him once, wow, that must have been traumatic
Well if that's the worst that's happened to him he's very fortunate.lol
You describe Donald Trump
Thank you
I'm really disappointed Julie that you would bring a worldly psychiatrist into a spiritual principle in the Kingdom of heaven. This man obviously is not born again of the spirit and he is so wrong about the percentage of egomaniacs and Bullies behind pulpits it's more like 15% that are actually called by God and are Servants of their flock, true shepherds.
Paul is not impressive. Seems weak. Most of this is not scriptural based. Pastor doesn’t represent character of God. Men are sinners. But wait…Enemy is not flesh and blood. Holy Spirit - not this channel will lead us to TRUTH. Sorry…this is questionable.
God uses people!!
You’re off base, mister!! Jesus was against such “harsh shepherds!” Grow up, and stop calling people names!
"Seems weak"? What book are you reading which inspires you to say things like this? The Bible or some wild west novel?
True, but clearly God uses man.Bjt corrupt pastors in mega churches are many it seems. Money seems to be the number one goal. Most mega pastors are millionairs ! Even Franklin Graham pays himself 700 or 800 grand a year even tho his a multimillionaire!!! Samaritans purse may do some good but where in the Bible can this be justified!!!!!!
you have no idea what you talking about. You are part of the problem, this is not for you