Okay question because i like to make my own builds. You have a physical damage spell and have 90% conversion to cold from something (gloves + hatred watchers eye) You have a cold to Fire support gem and avatar of fire. How does Avatar of fires phys to fire conversion effect having 90% from other sources? Been trying to figure this out but I am too smooth of a brain.
@@deathytv3119 Ah, the original version of the video would have answered this question, since it (incorrectly) assumed that Avatar of Fire would interfere with Ice Crash's physical-to-cold conversion. Here's how that would work (assuming 100 base physical damage): 90% physical to cold + 50% physical to fire = 140% physical to X This is scaled down to 100% as follows: 0.90 / 1.40 = 64.3% physical to cold 0.50 / 1.40 = 35.7% physical to fire The "gain as extra" from Hatred (assuming level 21) would be additive: 64.3% + 26% = 90.3% physical as cold Base damage after physical-to-X conversion: 100 * 0.903 = 90.3 base cold damage 100 * 0.357 = 35.7 base fire damage Cold-to-fire conversion will apply only to the cold part, not the fire part. Assuming level 21 Cold to Fire: 90.3 * 1.30 = 117.4 base fire damage Altogether: 117.4 base fire damage (affected by physical, cold, and fire modifiers) 35.7 base fire damage (affected by physical and fire modifiers) To avoid this inefficiency, use Pyre and Anomalous Cold to Fire instead of Avatar of Fire.
I would just like to see a video on elemental resistances concerning dealing damage and how it pertains to things like penetration vs lowering an enemies resistance. just an overall video on elemental resistances would be awesome from you - i would guarantee it.
Thank you! I've had most of a script on ailment mechanics typed up for weeks now. I'll probably upload part one of that as soon as I'm done with the builds I'm working on in Archnemesis league. Might make some videos on those as well.
Ok, so just to say it - i've spent half a day researching, found ur video, said "f it, it's too long" (wish i ever heard that from my ex's), then still watched it, and badically found answer to my question, so thank you and a like from me.
Your videos are great and very much appreciated. Could you do a video about all the ailments and how to scale them properly? With that I also mean non-damaging, like, how the hell does chill, freeze, shock work and scale?
That was already at the top of my list for the next deep dive video, actually! Doubly true now that I know people are interested. That said, I'm probably going to stick to some shorter, more focused pieces for the next few, since these long ones are exhausting and have a limited audience.
@@sergeantminor256 I love these 1-2 hour videos personally, but I can understand all the reasons against it. I usually watch your videos 30 minutes at a time, then digest the information, and come back a few hours later.
My first real damage conversion build I played was when Trinity came out. I wanted to try playing wild stike for a while and thought this was the best opportunity to do so. While playing I always stacked flat physical and increased physical modifiers because I thought it was the best thing to do as it would increase all the elemental damage resulting from it. Playing this skill to learn about conversion mechanics is probably the worst thing I could've done (at least with my approach) as I didn't just lower my damage output with any given element by stacking physical instead of elemental damage especially when using Hatred and other "as extra" mods, it also gave me the false sense of not actually increasing elemental damage by increasing my physical damage because my clear didn't get better. Turns out that Wild Stike, for some reason that is nowhere mentioned on the gem itself, only applies the conversion of "Melee physical damage support" to the strike part of the skill (because only that is Melee) and not to the secondary elemental arc/blow/wave, so those can't have their elemental damage increased by that support, but the strike itself can... oof It's a good thing to know though since other skills (like Lightning Stike) do this as well :/
Yeah, Wild Strike scaling is pretty unintuitive, especially when compared to other melee skills whose secondary effects count as melee damage (e.g. Static Strike). At least Lightning Strike and Molten Strike are explicit about their secondary effects counting as projectiles. That being said, this particular issue isn't doesn't have anything to do with conversion, so hopefully you still learned a lot about conversion nonetheless.
Awesome video, very informative. small feedback is that it would be nice if you left some space on the bottom of your video for people who want to watch with closed captioning on
It's funny, I was just thinking to myself yesterday, hmm, some of this text is a bit hard to read with the captions in the way. I'll definitely try to be more conscious of that next time I'm drawing up the diagrams and stuff!
Hey, I'm not sure if you answered this in the video and I missed it, but when you have a hit that does both physical and chaos damage that poisons, does all of the poison damage get affected by physical modifiers? Or is it only the poison damage caused by the physical portion of the hit?
Your video is fantastic and your visualizations are really well done. I would like to see videos on scaling effectiveness for specific popular skills. For example, with Toxic Rain I find myself wondering the thresholds when it's better to invest in chaos damage, damage over time, skill effect duration, damage taken over time, etc. Likewise, comparing the effectiveness of higher gem levels opposed to increased/more/minus res/damage pen/damage taken.
That's a good idea! A comprehensive deep dive into damage scaling sounds daunting (prohibitively so), but restricting the discussion to several skills at a time would make it manageable. Given that this type of video will probably not be coming soon, do you want me to clarify anything about Toxic Rain right now through text?
@@devinvisible Well, without any more specific questions, I'd summarize it like this: First of all, "meta" TR builds only care to scale the DoT effect on the skill gem itself -- not the hit damage, and not poison either. These are the damage modifiers that *will* affect the skill DoT: - damage - chaos damage - damage over time - projectile damage (explicitly listed on TR gem itself) - area damage - damage over time with bow skills - chaos damage with attack skills As "increased" modifiers, all of these are additive with one another and should be seen as equivalent, point for point (e.g. 10% increased chaos damage = 10% projectile damage). "More" modifiers are always multiplicative with everything. The following will not* scale the DoT: - physical damage - attack damage - damage with weapons - damage with bows - damage with poison These two are additive with one another, but together they form a separate multiplier to DPS: - damage over time multiplier - chaos damage over time multiplier This is useless because the DoT is not an ailment: - damage over time multiplier for ailments from critical strikes All of the following should be seen as separate multipliers to TR's DPS: - local attack speed (on weapon) - global attack speed - action speed - skill effect duration They're still additive with themselves as "increased" modifiers (e.g. two global 30% increased attack speed modifiers = 60% global attack speed). Also, 50% increased skill effect duration only multiplies DPS by 1.5 in the ideal case where the enemy remains in the AoE the entire time. Given a choice between doubling duration and doubling damage, you'd want damage every time. Regarding gem levels, generally you should view each additional level on TR as a separate multiplier. Until level 30, each gem level is roughly a "10.7% more damage" modifier (×1.107 multiplier). For +2 gem levels, multiply by 1.107 twice. Past level 30, scaling drops off heavily. Going from level 30 to level 31 is only 5% more damage. Here's a chart a made a couple of years ago for it, updated with current damage numbers: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWlVcDlLOIz8elJ_974heak3HArIy62ZVSNUqUFUJFo/edit?usp=sharing With other skills, scaling with gem levels is muddier, since you have to consider how added damage makes gem levels less efficient (and vice versa). However, since there's no way to "add" damage to TR's DoT, gem levels are always a relevant and predictable way to scale it. Everything so far is stuff that's applied on the attacker side of combat calculations. As for defender-side stuff, these two are the main things: - lowering chaos resistance - increasing damage taken Again, these two are multiplicative with each other and additive with themselves. The exact numerical benefit of each is a bit unpredictable, since it depends on the monster's own stats (chaos resistance, reduced damage taken). Generally speaking, lower chaos resistance is very good. Endgame bosses have positive chaos resistance, and there aren't that many ways to lower it. Most of the "increased damage taken" you're getting is probably coming from Wither, which increases chaos damage taken by 90% at 15 stacks (108% with the "Corruption" notable). This makes other "increased damage taken" debuffs (e.g. Despair, Shock, Bottled Faith) less efficient (e.g. 15% shock might only be ~7% more DPS).
@@sergeantminor256 Thank you for the very thorough reply! I'm even more excited for future videos from you. :) Toxic Rain is a great case study in damage scaling. You hit a frequent point of confusion right out of the gate -- Toxic Rain has MULTIPLE facets to its damage: the initial arrows hit, then the pods have damage over time, then the pods explode for an additional area hit. You're correct that most people only consider scaling the DoT and recognizing why is pretty important. That difference in base dot dps between a level 30 and level 31 gem is exactly the type of thresholds I'm interested in better understanding. Other concepts that I think are interesting to explore is the phantasmal quality gem giving two additional arrows. Additional arrows increases the overall area the pods can spawn within which I believe means less overlap (worse single target?). I'm not certain. But this all matters when we talk about /effective/ dps. Increasing area of effect to make pod overlaps more common is another area that has breakpoints and may or may not be worth the hassle vs just scaling the dot damage instead. I'm very interestedin all of this! :-) Cheers
@@devinvisible Yes, how silly of me to neglect additional arrows as a scaling method! Also, I meant to talk about area of effect but I forgot to. I was basically going to say that there was a recent change to TR that makes AoE not as effective (I think?) for scaling DPS. Someone on Reddit did a comparison a few months ago, but I haven't played TR in years, so I didn't look too much into it.
Thanks for the awesome video. Definitely prefer this level of detail! For Ignite, if I have Gain x% of non-chaos as extra chaos damage, lightning/cold/fire, and Shaper of Flames, am I understanding correctly that the ignite damage number derives from all 4 of those damage types, does pure fire damage, and is ONLY scaled dot-wise by fire dot (so chaos dot would do nothing here)?
Can't say enough, you're a beast for tackling all this content. Good on you! Question regarding scaling damage from modifiers. Would things like "more melee damage" from the Fortify skill gem, or "Supported attacks deal X% more damage" from Bloodthirst, increase the damage from "gain as Extra"? I'm a little unclear on global modifiers, and how they are determined. Spent sometime on the wiki but not entirely clear.
Yes, both of those will scale all damage you deal, provided the damage has the right keywords (e.g. melee, attack). For example, let's say you deal 100 physical damage with 50% of physical gained as fire. The 100 physical damage will be multiplied by 1.2 (Fortify) and then by 1.1 (Bloodthirst) for 132 damage. The 50 fire damage will get the same multipliers for 66 damage.
Pretty late here, but I have a question regarding Gain X as Extra Y: Does "gain of x as extra y" modifiers always apply before "of x converted to y" modifiers? So if I have "40 % of Physical Damage converted to Fire Damage" from Fire Mastery and "Gain 15 % of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage" from Herald of Ash, does that mean I get 15 % of Physical as Extra Fire BEFORE or AFTER the "40 % of Phyiscal Damage converted to Fire Damage" conversion? So if my attack does 100 base phyiscal damage, do I gain 15 % as Extra Fire or 9 % as Extra Fire ?
You would still get the full 15%, for a total of 55% of your original physical damage as fire and 60% as physical. You can effectively think about it as though the "gain as extra" modifier is applied first, though I don't know if the game actually handles it sequentially like that.
yesssssssssssss! thanks you! this is the kind of serious info i needed prior to 3.15 because its going to be a serious new skilsl and new ideas league and conversion is going to be insane for me to learn and plan for for something liek exploding concoction skill and stuff cant wait thanks!
Question about elemental damage. We convert ALL lightning, cold and fire to chaos. Thus if we in increase cold, the damage that directly came from cold to chaos will be increased by chaos AND cold. This effect is not present with "all damage" increases. However, how does the game treat elemental? Is it considered an ALL DAMAGE increase or does it increase each element separately?
"Increased Elemental Damage" works similarly to "increased Damage" in that it won't apply twice to converted damage. Not sure if that answers your question.
Pretty good, I can tell from the voice at the end that it was a bit much lmao. As for a more limited concept to explain, I would suggest tackling penetration :-.. whats the point, how much is good, how much is too much.. and its effects on dmg etc. Enough scope to be as big or small as desired. gl..
Excellent suggestion! I'll definitely do that one at some point. I don't think I could ramble on about penetration for an hour if I tried, so that's perfect.
I'm gonna be honest though i think I watched the leech video like 3 times over just a few months ago and I've already forgotten everything rip :( my iq too low
Found a Cold Reap build that turned Physical into Cold, Cold as extra fire damage, and then turned All Elemental Damage To Chaos Damage reduce enemy chaos resistance to 0. And maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan does it slap
I'm having a hard time understanding what base damage in this game actually is (and how ailment damage is calculated). I also did not know that I can get "physical as extra ..." even when converting all of my physical damage to elemental damage. I guess I thought they were calculated one after the other when in reality they are calculated simultaneously. I'd really love to see a video dedicated to ailments though. As far as I understand the ailment damage is calculated after the base damage has been converted, but it seems like the calculation just ends here. Does it actually not matter how big the 'Hit' of my fire damage is to calculating the inflicted ignite? This concept is so weird to me... With 100 Base Fire damage, am I really having a 20 Fire Damage Hit inflict a 72 (50+22) fire damage per second ignite when supported by Deadly Ailments (44% more ailment DoT and 80% less hit damage)?
The short answer is yes, to both of your questions. Ailments get their own base damage over time, which is derived from the post-conversion base hit damage. After this split occurs, modifiers to hit damage apply to the base hit damage, and modifiers to damage over time apply to the base damage over time. Thanks for the reminder that I need to make a video about ailment mechanics!
@@sergeantminor256 When you do I'd like to point out something interesting I found on the poewiki. While looking up ignite I stumbled upon this one line that said (as of 3.13) "If a application of ignite has a duration lower than 300ms it does not apply". The linked source pointed towards a Reddit comment from Mark_GGG. But according to the Reddit post not just ignite but all (elemental?) ailments fall under this 300ms rule. While it was (previous to 3.16) not possible to notice that restriction without using 2 Replica Emberwake Rings, the new Solipsism Keystone allows you to stack "reduced duration of elemental ailments on you". I saw people saying this Keystone was not good because of the high investment to int in order to gain 100% reduction, but when you only need to reduce the duration to under 300ms to effectively become immune to elemental ailments the investment into int would decrease significantly. 100% Reduction => 50*15int = 750int Longest base duration is 4s (Ignite, Scorch, Brittle, Sapped). 4000ms (1 - Reductions) = 300ms => 0.925 ~ rounded up to get below 300ms ~ 94% or 705int If Annointed Flesh still exists there would be another 20% additive to Solipsism, so just ~ 74% or 555 int Anyway... Thank you so much for these awesome videos
What if you convert phys to lightning and lightning to cold etc. and then get alot of gain ea. element as extra dmg will that be worth it or better just to go hybrid ?
@@sergeantminor256 from cluster jewles/items etc. gain x element as extra damage. So lets say i've converted all/most of my lightning to cold and cold to fire. Will the converted damage lets say lightning dmg. still count as extra?
@@Sir_Handyman I'm still not sure if this answers your question, but if you convert all of your damage (even multiple times), "gain as extra" mods will still work. For example, if you have 100% of phys converted to lightning and 100% of lightning converted to cold, then "gain 50% of phys as extra fire" would still work (and be based on the original phys damage (pre-conversion).
@@sergeantminor256 Okay - but what about trickster where you have 7% chance to gain 100% of Non-Chaos Damage with Hits as Extra Chaos Damage will the converted elemental damage count aswell?
@@Sir_Handyman Yes, "gain non-chaos as extra chaos" is very powerful when converting multiple times. See 20:46 in the video. This is commonly utilized by Tricksters with Eternity Shroud. Divine Ire is a great skill for this sort of thing.
Yeah... I've put almost no thought into any sort of branding for this channel. Thanks for the reminder. I'm sure I'll think of something befitting the matter-of-fact nature of this content. On the other hand, one could argue that the orange circle is just the right amount of boring.
seriously this whole grail of a streamlines and analytical approach to the step process for it helps me target point a few things as i theory LOL. full flat phys hollowpalm pathfinder exploding concoction poison build here i come kappa.... well if they can chain or i get enough proj and AS with HP i mean......... hah
Sorry to rain on your parade, but they're changing Hollow Palm's description to clarify that it doesn't work with Exploding Concoction: www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omh21e/explosive_concoction_and_unarmed_uniques/h5l1hpf/
Imagine being a new player in path of exile and you don't know anything, damn. Do I need to have a license to have a headhunter? I've been through a lot of seminars just to learn mechanics dayuuuuuuum!
![[LIVE] BABYMONSTER(베이비몬스터) - DRIP | 두시탈출 컬투쇼](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UG05pxLGwzc/mqdefault.jpg)
If there's any type of content you'd like to see from me about the upcoming 3.15 patch, let me know!
Okay question because i like to make my own builds. You have a physical damage spell and have 90% conversion to cold from something (gloves + hatred watchers eye) You have a cold to Fire support gem and avatar of fire. How does Avatar of fires phys to fire conversion effect having 90% from other sources? Been trying to figure this out but I am too smooth of a brain.
@@deathytv3119 Ah, the original version of the video would have answered this question, since it (incorrectly) assumed that Avatar of Fire would interfere with Ice Crash's physical-to-cold conversion. Here's how that would work (assuming 100 base physical damage):
90% physical to cold + 50% physical to fire = 140% physical to X
This is scaled down to 100% as follows:
0.90 / 1.40 = 64.3% physical to cold
0.50 / 1.40 = 35.7% physical to fire
The "gain as extra" from Hatred (assuming level 21) would be additive:
64.3% + 26% = 90.3% physical as cold
Base damage after physical-to-X conversion:
100 * 0.903 = 90.3 base cold damage
100 * 0.357 = 35.7 base fire damage
Cold-to-fire conversion will apply only to the cold part, not the fire part. Assuming level 21 Cold to Fire:
90.3 * 1.30 = 117.4 base fire damage
Altogether:
117.4 base fire damage (affected by physical, cold, and fire modifiers)
35.7 base fire damage (affected by physical and fire modifiers)
To avoid this inefficiency, use Pyre and Anomalous Cold to Fire instead of Avatar of Fire.
An ice trap conversion totem build
I would just like to see a video on elemental resistances concerning dealing damage and how it pertains to things like penetration vs lowering an enemies resistance. just an overall video on elemental resistances would be awesome from you - i would guarantee it.
You have no idea how much this taught and helped me. Thank you so much
I have no idea why u only have 1.360 subs on YT. Your vids are amazing and I hope u keep up the great work.
I still come back to this video to continue to learn from it. Thank you very much for the detailed video
This is my favorite video regarding POE damage conversion. Definitely deserves more views and likes. Well organized and delivered. Thank you!
Just going to pile on and echo how awesome these deep dives are. Clearing up complex topics... Much appreciated!
Thank you! I've had most of a script on ailment mechanics typed up for weeks now. I'll probably upload part one of that as soon as I'm done with the builds I'm working on in Archnemesis league. Might make some videos on those as well.
This channel is criminnally underrated!
Treamandous job answering a lot of questions I was asking myself. Thanks a lot !
this is a very good video for understanding completely with conversion and specific cases
This is lowkey the best video made on this topic
Ok, so just to say it - i've spent half a day researching, found ur video, said "f it, it's too long" (wish i ever heard that from my ex's), then still watched it, and badically found answer to my question, so thank you and a like from me.
this should be added to the wiki
Your videos are great and very much appreciated. Could you do a video about all the ailments and how to scale them properly? With that I also mean non-damaging, like, how the hell does chill, freeze, shock work and scale?
That was already at the top of my list for the next deep dive video, actually! Doubly true now that I know people are interested.
That said, I'm probably going to stick to some shorter, more focused pieces for the next few, since these long ones are exhausting and have a limited audience.
@@sergeantminor256 I love these 1-2 hour videos personally, but I can understand all the reasons against it. I usually watch your videos 30 minutes at a time, then digest the information, and come back a few hours later.
My first real damage conversion build I played was when Trinity came out. I wanted to try playing wild stike for a while and thought this was the best opportunity to do so. While playing I always stacked flat physical and increased physical modifiers because I thought it was the best thing to do as it would increase all the elemental damage resulting from it.
Playing this skill to learn about conversion mechanics is probably the worst thing I could've done (at least with my approach) as I didn't just lower my damage output with any given element by stacking physical instead of elemental damage especially when using Hatred and other "as extra" mods, it also gave me the false sense of not actually increasing elemental damage by increasing my physical damage because my clear didn't get better. Turns out that Wild Stike, for some reason that is nowhere mentioned on the gem itself, only applies the conversion of "Melee physical damage support" to the strike part of the skill (because only that is Melee) and not to the secondary elemental arc/blow/wave, so those can't have their elemental damage increased by that support, but the strike itself can... oof
It's a good thing to know though since other skills (like Lightning Stike) do this as well :/
Yeah, Wild Strike scaling is pretty unintuitive, especially when compared to other melee skills whose secondary effects count as melee damage (e.g. Static Strike). At least Lightning Strike and Molten Strike are explicit about their secondary effects counting as projectiles. That being said, this particular issue isn't doesn't have anything to do with conversion, so hopefully you still learned a lot about conversion nonetheless.
Awesome video, very informative.
small feedback is that it would be nice if you left some space on the bottom of your video for people who want to watch with closed captioning on
It's funny, I was just thinking to myself yesterday, hmm, some of this text is a bit hard to read with the captions in the way. I'll definitely try to be more conscious of that next time I'm drawing up the diagrams and stuff!
You should do a comprehensive guide on Defensive layers for Melee/Ranged/Caster archetypes.
Hey, I'm not sure if you answered this in the video and I missed it, but when you have a hit that does both physical and chaos damage that poisons, does all of the poison damage get affected by physical modifiers? Or is it only the poison damage caused by the physical portion of the hit?
Only the poison caused by physical damage will be affected by physical damage modifiers.
Your video is fantastic and your visualizations are really well done.
I would like to see videos on scaling effectiveness for specific popular skills. For example, with Toxic Rain I find myself wondering the thresholds when it's better to invest in chaos damage, damage over time, skill effect duration, damage taken over time, etc. Likewise, comparing the effectiveness of higher gem levels opposed to increased/more/minus res/damage pen/damage taken.
That's a good idea! A comprehensive deep dive into damage scaling sounds daunting (prohibitively so), but restricting the discussion to several skills at a time would make it manageable.
Given that this type of video will probably not be coming soon, do you want me to clarify anything about Toxic Rain right now through text?
@@sergeantminor256 I would very much appreciate your thoughts with TR
@@devinvisible Well, without any more specific questions, I'd summarize it like this:
First of all, "meta" TR builds only care to scale the DoT effect on the skill gem itself -- not the hit damage, and not poison either. These are the damage modifiers that *will* affect the skill DoT:
- damage
- chaos damage
- damage over time
- projectile damage (explicitly listed on TR gem itself)
- area damage
- damage over time with bow skills
- chaos damage with attack skills
As "increased" modifiers, all of these are additive with one another and should be seen as equivalent, point for point (e.g. 10% increased chaos damage = 10% projectile damage). "More" modifiers are always multiplicative with everything.
The following will not* scale the DoT:
- physical damage
- attack damage
- damage with weapons
- damage with bows
- damage with poison
These two are additive with one another, but together they form a separate multiplier to DPS:
- damage over time multiplier
- chaos damage over time multiplier
This is useless because the DoT is not an ailment:
- damage over time multiplier for ailments from critical strikes
All of the following should be seen as separate multipliers to TR's DPS:
- local attack speed (on weapon)
- global attack speed
- action speed
- skill effect duration
They're still additive with themselves as "increased" modifiers (e.g. two global 30% increased attack speed modifiers = 60% global attack speed). Also, 50% increased skill effect duration only multiplies DPS by 1.5 in the ideal case where the enemy remains in the AoE the entire time. Given a choice between doubling duration and doubling damage, you'd want damage every time.
Regarding gem levels, generally you should view each additional level on TR as a separate multiplier. Until level 30, each gem level is roughly a "10.7% more damage" modifier (×1.107 multiplier). For +2 gem levels, multiply by 1.107 twice. Past level 30, scaling drops off heavily. Going from level 30 to level 31 is only 5% more damage. Here's a chart a made a couple of years ago for it, updated with current damage numbers:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWlVcDlLOIz8elJ_974heak3HArIy62ZVSNUqUFUJFo/edit?usp=sharing
With other skills, scaling with gem levels is muddier, since you have to consider how added damage makes gem levels less efficient (and vice versa). However, since there's no way to "add" damage to TR's DoT, gem levels are always a relevant and predictable way to scale it.
Everything so far is stuff that's applied on the attacker side of combat calculations. As for defender-side stuff, these two are the main things:
- lowering chaos resistance
- increasing damage taken
Again, these two are multiplicative with each other and additive with themselves. The exact numerical benefit of each is a bit unpredictable, since it depends on the monster's own stats (chaos resistance, reduced damage taken). Generally speaking, lower chaos resistance is very good. Endgame bosses have positive chaos resistance, and there aren't that many ways to lower it. Most of the "increased damage taken" you're getting is probably coming from Wither, which increases chaos damage taken by 90% at 15 stacks (108% with the "Corruption" notable). This makes other "increased damage taken" debuffs (e.g. Despair, Shock, Bottled Faith) less efficient (e.g. 15% shock might only be ~7% more DPS).
@@sergeantminor256 Thank you for the very thorough reply! I'm even more excited for future videos from you. :)
Toxic Rain is a great case study in damage scaling. You hit a frequent point of confusion right out of the gate -- Toxic Rain has MULTIPLE facets to its damage: the initial arrows hit, then the pods have damage over time, then the pods explode for an additional area hit. You're correct that most people only consider scaling the DoT and recognizing why is pretty important.
That difference in base dot dps between a level 30 and level 31 gem is exactly the type of thresholds I'm interested in better understanding.
Other concepts that I think are interesting to explore is the phantasmal quality gem giving two additional arrows. Additional arrows increases the overall area the pods can spawn within which I believe means less overlap (worse single target?). I'm not certain. But this all matters when we talk about /effective/ dps. Increasing area of effect to make pod overlaps more common is another area that has breakpoints and may or may not be worth the hassle vs just scaling the dot damage instead. I'm very interestedin all of this! :-)
Cheers
@@devinvisible Yes, how silly of me to neglect additional arrows as a scaling method! Also, I meant to talk about area of effect but I forgot to. I was basically going to say that there was a recent change to TR that makes AoE not as effective (I think?) for scaling DPS. Someone on Reddit did a comparison a few months ago, but I haven't played TR in years, so I didn't look too much into it.
loved the old text/handwritten - also great guides
Thanks for the awesome video. Definitely prefer this level of detail!
For Ignite, if I have Gain x% of non-chaos as extra chaos damage, lightning/cold/fire, and Shaper of Flames, am I understanding correctly that the ignite damage number derives from all 4 of those damage types, does pure fire damage, and is ONLY scaled dot-wise by fire dot (so chaos dot would do nothing here)?
Yes, that is correct. The "damage over time multiplier" stats are never inherited, either by conversion or by things like Shaper of Flames.
@@sergeantminor256 Awesome, thank you!
Good stuff my dude.
Amazing 👏 guide to how to convert!
Youre amazing what the hell, this is exactly what I needed
Can't say enough, you're a beast for tackling all this content. Good on you!
Question regarding scaling damage from modifiers. Would things like "more melee damage" from the Fortify skill gem, or "Supported attacks deal X% more damage" from Bloodthirst, increase the damage from "gain as Extra"? I'm a little unclear on global modifiers, and how they are determined. Spent sometime on the wiki but not entirely clear.
Yes, both of those will scale all damage you deal, provided the damage has the right keywords (e.g. melee, attack). For example, let's say you deal 100 physical damage with 50% of physical gained as fire. The 100 physical damage will be multiplied by 1.2 (Fortify) and then by 1.1 (Bloodthirst) for 132 damage. The 50 fire damage will get the same multipliers for 66 damage.
@@sergeantminor256 Thank you (Y)
Pretty late here, but I have a question regarding Gain X as Extra Y: Does "gain of x as extra y" modifiers always apply before "of x converted to y" modifiers?
So if I have "40 % of Physical Damage converted to Fire Damage" from Fire Mastery and "Gain 15 % of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage" from Herald of Ash, does that mean I get 15 % of Physical as Extra Fire BEFORE or AFTER the "40 % of Phyiscal Damage converted to Fire Damage" conversion? So if my attack does 100 base phyiscal damage, do I gain 15 % as Extra Fire or 9 % as Extra Fire ?
You would still get the full 15%, for a total of 55% of your original physical damage as fire and 60% as physical. You can effectively think about it as though the "gain as extra" modifier is applied first, though I don't know if the game actually handles it sequentially like that.
@@sergeantminor256 thanks. love your videos btw
yesssssssssssss! thanks you! this is the kind of serious info i needed prior to 3.15 because its going to be a serious new skilsl and new ideas league and conversion is going to be insane for me to learn and plan for for something liek exploding concoction skill and stuff cant wait thanks!
Question about elemental damage. We convert ALL lightning, cold and fire to chaos. Thus if we in increase cold, the damage that directly came from cold to chaos will be increased by chaos AND cold. This effect is not present with "all damage" increases.
However, how does the game treat elemental? Is it considered an ALL DAMAGE increase or does it increase each element separately?
"Increased Elemental Damage" works similarly to "increased Damage" in that it won't apply twice to converted damage. Not sure if that answers your question.
@@sergeantminor256 yep thanks
Pretty good, I can tell from the voice at the end that it was a bit much lmao.
As for a more limited concept to explain, I would suggest tackling penetration :-.. whats the point, how much is good, how much is too much.. and its effects on dmg etc. Enough scope to be as big or small as desired. gl..
Excellent suggestion! I'll definitely do that one at some point. I don't think I could ramble on about penetration for an hour if I tried, so that's perfect.
But, i can convert elemental to phys damage?
If like to see some info on guard skills like when is it better to use steel skin vs immortal call
That's good stuff man inject this video into my veins hell yeah
I'm gonna be honest though i think I watched the leech video like 3 times over just a few months ago and I've already forgotten everything rip :( my iq too low
Pog i love what you do its awesome
tnx for info currently playing eternity shroud + voltaxic shaper......not sure how2 scale it
Found a Cold Reap build that turned Physical into Cold, Cold as extra fire damage, and then turned All Elemental Damage To Chaos Damage reduce enemy chaos resistance to 0. And maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan does it slap
I'm having a hard time understanding what base damage in this game actually is (and how ailment damage is calculated).
I also did not know that I can get "physical as extra ..." even when converting all of my physical damage to elemental damage. I guess I thought they were calculated one after the other when in reality they are calculated simultaneously.
I'd really love to see a video dedicated to ailments though.
As far as I understand the ailment damage is calculated after the base damage has been converted, but it seems like the calculation just ends here. Does it actually not matter how big the 'Hit' of my fire damage is to calculating the inflicted ignite?
This concept is so weird to me...
With 100 Base Fire damage, am I really having a 20 Fire Damage Hit inflict a 72 (50+22) fire damage per second ignite when supported by Deadly Ailments (44% more ailment DoT and 80% less hit damage)?
The short answer is yes, to both of your questions. Ailments get their own base damage over time, which is derived from the post-conversion base hit damage. After this split occurs, modifiers to hit damage apply to the base hit damage, and modifiers to damage over time apply to the base damage over time.
Thanks for the reminder that I need to make a video about ailment mechanics!
@@sergeantminor256 When you do I'd like to point out something interesting I found on the poewiki.
While looking up ignite I stumbled upon this one line that said (as of 3.13) "If a application of ignite has a duration lower than 300ms it does not apply". The linked source pointed towards a Reddit comment from Mark_GGG. But according to the Reddit post not just ignite but all (elemental?) ailments fall under this 300ms rule. While it was (previous to 3.16) not possible to notice that restriction without using 2 Replica Emberwake Rings, the new Solipsism Keystone allows you to stack "reduced duration of elemental ailments on you".
I saw people saying this Keystone was not good because of the high investment to int in order to gain 100% reduction, but when you only need to reduce the duration to under 300ms to effectively become immune to elemental ailments the investment into int would decrease significantly.
100% Reduction => 50*15int = 750int
Longest base duration is 4s (Ignite, Scorch, Brittle, Sapped).
4000ms (1 - Reductions) = 300ms => 0.925 ~ rounded up to get below 300ms ~ 94% or 705int
If Annointed Flesh still exists there would be another 20% additive to Solipsism, so just ~ 74% or 555 int
Anyway... Thank you so much for these awesome videos
What if you convert phys to lightning and lightning to cold etc. and then get alot of gain ea. element as extra dmg
will that be worth it or better just to go hybrid ?
Can you clarify what you mean by "gain each element as extra damage"?
@@sergeantminor256 from cluster jewles/items etc. gain x element as extra damage.
So lets say i've converted all/most of my lightning to cold and cold to fire.
Will the converted damage lets say lightning dmg. still count as extra?
@@Sir_Handyman I'm still not sure if this answers your question, but if you convert all of your damage (even multiple times), "gain as extra" mods will still work.
For example, if you have 100% of phys converted to lightning and 100% of lightning converted to cold, then "gain 50% of phys as extra fire" would still work (and be based on the original phys damage (pre-conversion).
@@sergeantminor256 Okay - but what about trickster where you have 7% chance to gain 100% of Non-Chaos Damage with Hits as Extra Chaos Damage
will the converted elemental damage count aswell?
@@Sir_Handyman Yes, "gain non-chaos as extra chaos" is very powerful when converting multiple times. See 20:46 in the video. This is commonly utilized by Tricksters with Eternity Shroud. Divine Ire is a great skill for this sort of thing.
When you put some avatar on yours channel? I don't like this orange circle ;-(
maybe you put health bar? Or mana bar? Or something like that? :P
Yeah... I've put almost no thought into any sort of branding for this channel. Thanks for the reminder. I'm sure I'll think of something befitting the matter-of-fact nature of this content. On the other hand, one could argue that the orange circle is just the right amount of boring.
yesssssssssssss THANKS!
seriously this whole grail of a streamlines and analytical approach to the step process for it helps me target point a few things as i theory LOL. full flat phys hollowpalm pathfinder exploding concoction poison build here i come kappa.... well if they can chain or i get enough proj and AS with HP i mean......... hah
Sorry to rain on your parade, but they're changing Hollow Palm's description to clarify that it doesn't work with Exploding Concoction:
www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omh21e/explosive_concoction_and_unarmed_uniques/h5l1hpf/
Tyvm
Imagine being a new player in path of exile and you don't know anything, damn. Do I need to have a license to have a headhunter? I've been through a lot of seminars just to learn mechanics dayuuuuuuum!
GAME!! OMG its most be a G-A-M-E!! Not bachelor degree..
#RevertHandwriting