@@morganhunt8051 ya but she's not having that realization while she's on the council. It's like losing a game and right before the end you suggest a draw
@@TheBobbyMetcalf remember the scene in Regent when Aemond is picked as Regent over her? That scene is her, still on the council, realizing she’s lost power.
@@morganhunt8051 right, but that's not the point. She was ready to get down when they met in the church. Had a chance for peace, to live and breathe free air or however she put it. It's not until she is stripped of power AND the betting odds switch in favor of the Black's does she make an effort at peace/surrender. When she's off the council, she still doesn't reach out because she thinks her boys will win. I'm talking about the combination of her loss of power AND the Greens looking like they'll lose. Then she's like, didn't u love me once?
@@morganhunt8051 right. It's not until the Greens are looking like losers that she changes her song from the church meeting. It's those changes combined that leads she to ask for mercy. She had her chance at peace while she was on top. Said no.
What is even crazier than Alicent asking is Rhaenyra looking like she wishes she could. Like Rhaenyra has like 6 kids and a husband that she actually does like unlike Alicent who has only he Helaena and Jaehaera. Like as freaking if she’d run away with her ex step mom who started fucking her dad behind her back right after her mom died and raised her damn sons to hate Rhaenyra. She’s lost a daughter and a son because of alicent, and now alicent wants to give up on her own son who actually never wanted to be king but was forced into by her!! Like your tons are terrors because you were a bad mother and you think you deserve to be free of guilt and responsibility. Fuck that
I like how Aemond was like "all boats in and out of the city must be searched!" and then later that episode Queen Alicent and her kingsguard left by boat to Dragonstone to talk to Rhaenyra. Effective policymaking!
@@michaelf8221 gold cloaks work for daemon and larys could not lock down a bike In KL all season because he probably works for team black not sure what you have watched all season
There were definitely two episodes missing this season, one between episodes 5 and 6 depicting the atrocities comited by the Blackwoods in the Riverlands, the interception of Otto Hightowers party, and an introduction of Daeron in Oldtown. And an episode after the finale with two battles the main battle with all the armies and the naval battle in which Aegon and Viserys ship is intercepted.
totally. I can forgive them that for the writers and actors strike. It was a solidish season, but def could be more well baked. To that end, the next season has to potential to be the best television we have ever seen...so that is nice :D
@@BeCurieUs The shorter season wasn't a result of the strike, I'm pretty sure that announcement came before the strike. However HBO did kind of screw them, and announce the shortened season after they had started production and after they had plotted everything out for 10 episodes.
@@SRosenberg203 I heard from elsewhere they also couldn't do any rewrites because of the strikes so I am not sure how that all ties in with the episode reduction. In all, it had the makings for utter disaster it sounds like. But they got away to some rather mild "boring and redundant" bits with a slight anti-climax and a few other quibles. Pretty amazing honestly given the challenges. The nettles situation has me a bit worried, so it isn't all good news, but I think it was overall a great season with a few small blemishes.
In the Godswood, Alfred Broome is talking to Daemon. With subtitles on, you hear someone whisper "traitor", to Broome, to which he responded "Did you hear that?", and Daemon responded with,"This place will have you......." Also, may be callback to Bran when he uses the Wierwood Trees to view history and keeps saying stuff people hear, like Ned and Hodor
I geeked at the green man, so spooky and mysterious. Disappointed we didn't see Vhagara go full kaiju this ep, would've been a great way to show the horror dragon riders can inflict
Rhaenyra: A son for a son... Alicent: Reluctantly, I agr...wait...your lot murdered Jaehaerys. You're getting more than just a son, was not the debt paid? Rhaenyra: Yea...let me get back to you on this one, we may need to go to arbitration. Sorry bout that.
🤣🤣🤣 that’s what i was thinking lol…like they got aegon’s son just like the green’s got one of rhaenyra’s sons but i guess alicent wasn’t in a position to bargain
The whole season felt like it was strung out to avoid the actual war starting properly. Two episodes of visions in melted castles would have been plenty.
Otto only cares about his and the Citadel's agenda to wipe out the dragons. They'll put whoever they have to on the throne to make that goal easier to manipulate into reality.
Maegor was well on his way to being a great Targaryen prince until he was married off to a barren woman a decade his elder that just so happened to have the last name Hightower. Most of what is written in Westeros is a facade.
Bullshit. Aemond isn't even remotely close to maegor he's just fighting that war that they started. Criston cole has killed as many people as Aemond I don't see you calling him maegor.
We needed the money shot. Imagine if at the end of season 1 of GOT Danny doesn’t hatch her eggs, robbed isn’t crowned king in the north, and Tyrion isn’t named hand. But all this is done in the first of episode of season 2. Changes the whole feeling of the season.
You’re right, that would be weird. Except that was the first season of the show, not the second. We already know the events that are propelling the future story. The war breaking out at the end of S1 was more significant than any change in the war’s status that could have ended this season
This is the end of S2 and comparing it to the GOT s2 finale, it matches in term of scope in many ways. Ends with buildup to the next season's larger conflict and ties up personal conflicts to make room for the beats of S3. The "money shot" from the S2 finale is the entrance of the white walkers and and Dany killing Xaro. I would argue both are equivalent to Daemon's final visions and the march of all the armies to war. However, i agree my humble manhood will be purple until s3 as well though. 😂
@@shanesalyers5433 The climax of season 2 of GoT was the Blackwater, so tenth episode wasn't promising any big upcoming battle in the War of the Five Kings.
I got to the end when the music’s playing and everyone’s gazing offscreen and all I could say was “Wait, that’s it?” Season 3 better be nonstop spectacle because this season was frustrating as hell
I can’t understand wanting “nonstop spectacle” because I’m here for the character drama. Like George says, all the fantasy stuff is just set dressing. GOT S7 and 8 was definitely going for nonstop spectacle and we saw how that went
@@morganhunt8051 to each their own I expected a series about a devastating war between dragon riders to have showcased a bit more actual warfare by now instead of conversations and acid trips
@@rudebodega Would they have gone through with the initially planned 10 episodes, we would have gotten two action set-pieces (Rook's Rest & the Red Sowing) plus a big episode-filling battle, which will now instead happen in season 3. We already got more action this season than in season 1 and much of early Game of Thrones, which arguably was where the show was at it's best. People seem to forget that ASoIaF is a character-drama first and foremost set in a fantasy world and not some high-fantasy action adventure story. I agree this season was a bit drawn out at times, especially with Daemons Harrenhal scenes but don't pretend GoT/HotD is supposed to be all action.
No Ice & Fire expert by any means but having read the books and watched the shows, I have to be disappointed that the show is now just grouping all of the magical elements into one big thing. The separation between the weirwoods and the Targaryens makes sense because the dragon riders came from Old Valyria while the weirwoods, children of the forest etc have been on Westeros for eons. Combining all of these together, nearly 200 years before Game of Thrones starts isn't necessary and in a way cheapens the numerous different forms of magic we see in the original show. Daemon doesn't need this vision of the future to motivate him to do the right thing for once, all of his other nightmares and visions have already shown him that he's been on the wrong path and in the book his sudden return to the war and masterstroke is even more satisfying because it is so unexpected.
Ok first of all, Bloodraven very obviously has a foot in both the Valyrian and Weirwood camps and he was the very first magical character we ever met, so there has always been crossover in magical elements. Melisandre also blends two magics, R'hllor's power and shadowbinding. Mixing magic doesn't cheapen anything because it's been happening the whole time. Second, Daemon dies. It doesn't matter that he was given so much proprietary information from the Weirwoods because the tragic irony is that it'll die with him. It doesn't change or spoil any of the established continuity.
I agree with you about Daemon and how this shouldn’t be the deciding factor in his motivations. However, I liked the mixing of Valyrian magic and old god’s magic. I think it fits into the lore quite well, Bloodraven is a testament to that. We already know magic in a sense is an interconnected web, where those of all differing magical affiliations (R’holloric, The Others, Elementals, Warlocks) have noted an increase in the efficacy of their specific magical disciplines - in the main series. Also a common ground for both Valyrian/ Essosi and Old God’s magic is the necessity of sacrifice for powerful “spells” that is a constant that I think derives some familiar existence.
When they turn away instead of head bumping at Harrenhal, I read it as an agreement that they can't be intimate with each other in front of the army that they just recruited. They have to show strength and leave the closeness together. I didn't see it as a rejection at all. If anything, the fact they both turned away, together, it was a move without needing words to communicate. That showed how close they actually can be
I think Jon _is_ the Prince that was Promised, the Song of Ice and Fire, and Dany is Azor Ahai. I think people both in and out of universe have conflated the two prophecies.
The best thing about the episode was Simon Strong clapping his hands in delight when Damon knelt to Rhaenera. You only see it out of focus in the background, but Simon Russell Beale is such a great actor that he judged it perfectly. Big enough to be noticed, but not over the top.
And i have to say the acting and set design, costume and attention to detail, production, editing, special effects and directing across the board has been absolutely phenomenal in season 2. What talent they have assembled. Truly magnificent. I want a Simon Strong for Christmas.
Here are my 4 biggest gripes and why I want to take HBO or Ryan Condal outside and fight them in the back alley: #1. I wish the show runners would STOP bringing up the white walkers! We all know that the white walkers were defeated in LITERAL HOURS and by a 90 pound girl with a dagger no less, so the writers reminding us of this constantly just HURTS! Tywin F*cking Lannister had a bigger impact on Westeros than the white walkers FFS! It should be Tywin or even Robert Baratheon who is haunting the dreams of Targaryens because GOT already proved to fans that the white walkers ain’t sh*t. So unless they can find a clever way to fix Season 8, retcon it or do another show showing the white walkers are still alive and that the night king operates through Bran or some sh*t, stop trying to gaslight fans into believing that the apocalypse is in the future when we ALL SAW what happened. Not to mention that the inclusion of the white walkers hindered Daemon’s arc because now fans don’t know if he is supporting Rhaenyra because he’s changed and because of all the vision therapy he’s had all season or because he now knows about the apocalypse. It makes all the previous visions feel like a waste and it makes Daemon’s arc of finally standing by Rhaenyra feel kinda cheap. #2. Rhaenyra Freaking Targaryen. Lord knows why the writers thought a more peaceful, calm, rational Rhaenyra would make for a more entertaining story than the Rhaenyra GRRM crafted. The woman lost her son, lost her throne, lost Rhaenys, lost her two most loyal sworn swords, lost her father, lost her baby and came within an inch of being ASSASSINATED and that STILL wasn’t enough for her to want blood or to become a bit ruthless. It doesn’t feel like those events even happened. We should be seeing a gradual escalation in her brutality but instead it feels more like a yo-yo. When I saw her feed those bastards to The Bronze Fury I was so pumped but this darkness in Rhaenyra didn’t last which was disappointing. They constantly tease fans with these intense face expressions she keeps making that allude to her becoming dark, even having her turn around and glare into the camera in the season 1 finale like sh*t is about to POP OFF, only for fans to learn a couple scenes or episodes later that she actually still wants no bloodshed. They keep doing this! For instance, after the epic scene of Rhaenyra on Dragonstone where she’s looking like a badass and glaring at Aemond as he fled, Rhaenyra met with Corlys and Coryls had to CONVINCE Rhaenyra to fight! Like, f*ck me. The writers actually had Rhaenyra open her mouth to say to Coryls that she had just planned on using her newly gained dragons as a deterrence for Aemond. A F*CKING DETTERENCE. END ME ALREADY. Stop with the yo-yo-ing! We should see her ruthlessness building up episode by episode but instead we see her go back and forth and it makes me dizzy. Stop putting fans on these amazing highs for her character just to do nothing with it. #3. I don’t care about Rhaena’s story anymore. She makes the same damn pikachu face all season and we’ve ALREADY seen the storyline of a Targaryen child being belittled and feeling bad because they don’t have a dragon and then claiming a dragon, and that child’s name was AEMOND! Except it was done much better there. Why do fans need to see this story again? Just claim a dragon or don’t goddamnit! They’ve dedicated like 5-6 scenes to this! Can you imagine if it took 5 scenes just for Aemond to claim Vhagar? These scenes have overstayed their welcome. I don’t care anymore. I hope Sheepstealer EATS her. 😂 At least that would add a little more excitement and shock to the show. Baela would be like “WUT?!?!” when she hears the news and the news could be delivered by NETTLES who goes on to explain that Sheepstealer killed Rhaena because it already had a rider: herself. 😂 I’m half joking but that would actually make Rhaena’s scenes rewatchable. Because at this point, if I rewatch this season, I’ll definitely be fast forwarding through ALL of Rhaena’s scenes. The show is making me hate Rhaena but not because she’s easy to hate but because she’s taking up time and space that should’ve been given to more important, more interesting characters. Also, are you telling me that the daughter of Daemon Targaryen, the sister of the future queen, the grandchild of Coryls and Rhaenys and someone of her high status can just wonder off and no one notices her missing or goes looking for her?! Like WTF is even happening here? The 6 guards lady Arryn sent need to be fired for real. They had ONE JOB! All in all, despite my rant here, I still thought the season was good, that it’s the best show on television right now and that it can be redeemed in season 3. Fix it, HBO! And I’m starting to think Sarah Hess needs to GO. She makes some really stupid decisions and doesn’t understand the implications of those decisions or how bad her ideas f*ck up the entire show. She makes changes to the story but doesn’t think too deeply into it. When I saw that she wrote this episode, I said to myself that she probably wrote the only episode I didn’t like in season 1 where Rhaenys crashes through the floor uninjured and without a scratch on her, and also murders loads of people in the process… assassinating Rhaenys’ character and making her suddenly wanting no bloodshed in season 2 seem strange…and then I checked IMDB and I was RIGHT, she wrote that episode! That woman needs to be fired.
I don’t understand why people dislike the Tyrosh scenes so much and say it was a waste of time. It sets up a very important plot line for S3, gives some very needed levity in a pretty serious finale, and also is completely confined to the first act of the episode. I checked, the last Tyland scene ends less than 30 minutes in
@@morganhunt8051I don’t dislike those scenes, I’m frustrated because they are in the finale where other scenes far more important should’ve had priority. There’s no reason that had to be in the finale. It should’ve been spread throughout the season and it would’ve been great.
Definitely agree with the yoyo characters. You never know what they are going to throw at you. (And no, it doesn't create suspense. It just makes it not make sense!)
I think we're also seeing the power of the Targaryens beginning to waver with the death of Jaherys. No one listens to them as much. They are argued with more and less of their own policys are being put in place. Its like the Council distracts them by jingling keys while they all seek to get their way. The only things they get allowed to do are things that diminish their standing. Thats why security gets extra lax while the baby boy Targaryens are distracted by their egos. People also be saying that nothing is happening even though they make a list of many things happening. They simply dont respect whats happening if it doesn't include generic action, death or destruction.
I remember before season 2 aired that he announced he was leaving. I was preparing for the worst. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't better than the first season unfortunately.
@@vincentvega22 battle of the bastards where Jon snow stands in front of a stampede and live bc plot armor, wow we’re really missing out on some great stuff
Something to do with the vision being only a projection of the future by the gods or whomever, not necessarily something real that the tree saw / recorded.
Green seers at first can only see things in the tree network. Later they can see beyond. No doubt similar to the Targaryen Dragon Dreams, which now appear connected.
Aegon delivered "The Realm's Delight" with bitter irony in his voice. I think being told by his mother that he is a pawn without agency has broken him psychologically, as the fall/burn has broken him physically. I've been getting strong Wicker Man/Midsommar vibes from Daemon's time at Harrenhal. Like Sgt. Howie he's been led on a merry dance by the locals, and I think is being primed for sacrifice by Alys and the Green Men.
THANK YOU ROBERT!!! Immediately after the episode ended I was nerding out regarding the dragon dreams and weirwood visions being, seemingly, linked, and I've been DYING to hear someone discuss it in-depth! That by itself made this entire finale worth-while. Completely changes the game if this is true for the books as well.
I was wondering why the Riverlords were hesitating to kneel when Rhaenyra arrived at Harrenhal. When they're sworn to her and not Daemon, as we were told in previous episodes, why did they wait for Daemon bending the knee? Any ideas? Did they just not know it was her? :DDD
I enjoyed the episode but seeing as we will likely have to wait two years for S3, I think we should have gotten a couple more episodes this season with the beginning of open warfare.
I don't think the show is saying Dany is TPTWP. I think it merely showed Daemon what he needed to see so that he would return to Rhaenyra. If Daemon were a Stark it likely would have shown Jon Snow. He's just a piece getting pushed around by the gods and they only tell him just enough information.
Great episode, bad finale. You can clearly see this season was initially planned for 10 episodes. You'd have had the GoT-staple with a big, tide-changing battle in episode 9, followed by the aftermath in episode 10. Instead we got a 70 minutes--long teaser for season 3. They ***could*** have made this work in 8 episodes I think by deleting some Harrenhal scenes with Daemon and moving Rhaenettles to season 3 entirely for example, but that would have required extensive rewriting (which would have been even more difficult than cutting two episodes due to the writers strike). On top of that, it probably would have felt a bit too rushed, something the later seasons of GoT have suffered immensely from and which the showrunners probably wanted to avoid. As sad as it is, I think having this rather disappointing finale was the best outcome we could have hoped for among the strikes and greed from the studios wanting 4 seasons instead of 3.
Your first statement makes everything else you say hard to read. How can it be a great episode but a bad finale? Some of y’all think you are so open minded, but you just sound confused.
@@bekongwu602 I mean it as I've written. It would have been a great Episode 8 in a 10 Episode season and I thoroughly enjoyed it but it's not a great finale (and wasn't intended to be).
It was a terrible episode regardless of what was planned and a terrible season of television overall. You don't get a pass for a boring season even if you have two extra episodes.
The finale was certainly not bad but i’d say somewhat underwhelming for me not only the finale but the season overall. My biggest gripe probably all the lore changes ; seems quite a bit more this season compared to S1. All adaptations will have some lore changes but this season seemed to feature many needless avoidable examples and many to me actually compromised the characters and narrative a bit. Also , felt a bit underwhelmed with many of the character choices in particular ; to each their own but many characters to me just did not feel recognizable compared to their textual versions and some just seemed to even contradict their S1 depictions a bit. Be it Rhaenyra , Daemon , Alicent , Corlys , Rhaenys , Alyn and others just not getting the vibes i expected based on their textual versions. Daemon i wouldn’t say utilized so well this season other than his introspective aspects. Daemon's finale visions were prophetic and interesting but somewhat swerved the seeming theme of working through his own inner demons , guilt and regret to facilitate change. Alicent as well wouldn’t say was best utilized in S2 and seemed quite a divergence not only from the text but from S1 as well. The finale itself at least to me not super memorable or eventful and considering we will likely not see HotD again for about 2 years (typically the case of late) not sure quite powerful enough to leave us off that way. The finale felt like a bridge / build-up type episode rather than memorable. The same could be said for the season overall , a couple big beats aside not a lot very memorable imo. Even with the shortened season , of course that does not help and we miss certain aspects due to such cuts; but with quite long episodes still do not think we got enough character or narrative progression or best use of screen / air time that was on offer. I like HotD , i find it well done and will for sure continue to watch ; but i did much prefer S1 to S2 and I would advocate for less lore changes , less tie-ins to the main series, picking up the pace a bit and including more memorable / impactful moments & elements.
Thanks for the breakdowns INDEEPGEEK!!! its been an awesome ride this season!!!!!! I hope to join you again next season!!!!!! thanks for watching, take care, and we'll see you again soon! indeepgeek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@gathenhielm9977 ThinkStory In his latest episode, at 16 and a half minutes in. Now, I have to say, apart from that "oopsie" I generally really Iike his episode breakdowns.
SPOILER FOR NON BOOK READERS But...Nettles and Sheepstealer disappear together...so what will they do now? Rhaena can't disappear with Sheepstealer and she's supposed to hatch Morning...now what?
8:25 what if there are no dragon dreams, what if it’s just Blood Raven or time traveling Bran? Like if we start to assume Dragon magic and old gods’ magic works on somewhat the same frequency, or are one and the same. Then it would stand to reason even Daenys the Dreamer was only the dreamer because Blood Raven willed it so.
Its obvious from their interviewers the show runners are clueless and dont understand the story. Worse than DnD who had to finish an incomplete story, they have the whole thing mapped out ffs
I really don't get why Helena suddenly hates Aemond so much, the guy has literally never don't anything to her, and seemed to actually care about her when they were young or am I missing something?
I love that the vision came from the tree with GRRM's face on it, as if Daemon was literally reaching into the author's mind to see the story there. Also, the talk of not being the focus of the story but just playing a part brings to mind Rhargar, specifically how he had thought that HE was the Prince that was Promised, but later realises it was someone else. I wonder what prompted that change for him - I wonder if it could have been a similar experience? (Possibly also at Harrenhal even?)
Alicent deciding to betray her family and letting for Aegon execution is the lowest of the lows the show could go. It is Jaime level character assasination
Not sure what you're talking about - Rhaenyra pushed Alicent to make a decision on whether Alicent would want to see her son killed to welcome Rhaenyra to the throne, and she was silent, and then Rhaenyra knew negotiations had failed. Where do you get the impression that Alicent consented to her son's execution?
@@LordTomServo "the prince still had friends in kings landing and word of his nephews plans had reached him even before aemond had set out" thats not entirely clear who had given the prince that info
@@botmoonky1 Understanding the difference between show canon and book canon, we can safely deduce that it was not Alicent and certainly not on Dragonstone. By Fire and Blood standards, that passage is as clear-cut of an explanation as can be received. The absence of a name assigned to the information is irrelevant; it was a Daemon loyalist who provided him with the information from King’s Landing. There is only one opinion on how Daemon received the information, unlike the Brothel Queens scenario where the reader is left to decide the veracity.
Thanks so much for all the breakdowns throughout this season of game of thrones, house of the dragon!!!! Your breakdowns has made game of thrones house of the dragon even more enjoyable!!! indeepgeek!!!!
My count could be off but Season 1 covered approximately 75 pages of material and rarely did it feel like any time was wasted. Season 2 covered at maximum 25 pages. Explains all the filler.
It seems some people feel the Prince That Was Promised must personally defeat the threat (i.e. kill the Night King themselves). I don't see it that way. The hero who rises up may be likened more to a general who draws people together and plans the battle against the threat.
Do you think Alicent arranged for Otto's imprisonment as soon as he arrived after he was recalled by Aemond to set in motion her and Helaena's escape plan.
I for one can imagine Alicent thinks killing Aegon would be mercy at this point. so maimed and broken. People say she loves her children and she thinks she does but sometimes love is letting people go. even letting your fanfic drive the plot of the show in the direction where kings landings boat search has more holes than fishing net .
Rhaenyra and Alicents 2nd meeting feels tedious and completely out of place. All Alicent had to do was get the guards and the whole war is over. In this episode Rhaenyra could have had massive leverage if she captured Alicent.
@@alexmartin3143 OP isn't attacking your opinions simply because they don't agree. And if you want to be left alone and not discuss anything then why bother commenting at all?
Danys Dragons in show canon were what allowed the Whites to cross the wall. Maybe that's all they were meant for. Targaryen exceptionalism and prophecy are insane.
@6:39 I mean technically (assuming the show follows the book as far as Aemond's final battle,) he is dead before he hits the water due to a severe case of Valyrian-steel-to-the-brain, so he never drowns. But yes his body does sit at the bottom of the God's Eye for a long time until Vhagar's and his bones are recovered
The show jumped the shark for me after they fumbled Blood and Cheese, but this season finale dug up the corpse, torched it and pissed on the ashes. Daemon's visions and Helaena's suddenly clear dreams completely ruin the narrative because, as stated in the video, the future is pre-destined. So there's nothing to get invested in. Choices don't matter. This show has consistently done a terrible job of denying the characters any agency. Well now it's canonical that none of them have a shred of it because in-universe all outcomes are predetermined, even centuries in advance. Everyone on screen is an NPC.
There are some definite reasons to critique this finale, but overall I'm really quite happy with it. 10 episodes would have been better, but given the complicated production, I think they did their best with what they had
Excellent analysis, Robert! I like particularly the magical connection between Daemond and Haelena... this is great! Daemon and Aemond destiny is sealed, we know they will die. Impressive and powerful. Thanks
I feel like the Weirwood magic and the Fire and Blood magic will be separate aspects in the books, whereas in the show they're blending it all. Perhaps it will all turn out to be different facets of the same power in the end though.
It almost looks like they knew the next two episodes 9 and 10 would have needed a lot of action so instead they probably ran out of budget... And also probably had a hard time keeping episodes a aecret cause they said that one of the episodes leaked somehow...
I feel like I have some pretty controversial opinions on the finale, mostly having to do with the final scene. To be honest, my initial reaction when I saw Alicent on Dragonstone was a massive sigh and eye roll. I mean, come on. Having one queen sneak herself into the city controlled by the other is a bit iffy but not terrible. But having both of them do it in the same season? But the more I think about it, the more it works for me and not just because Djiwadi was pumping out his best work since "Light of the Seven" at the end of that episode. I had previously defended the scene at the end of episode 3 because I thought it was important for us to see how Alicent reacted to the truth of Viserys's last words. I'm still not totally on board with the logistics of the episode 8 scene but I do think it was equally as important. We needed to see that she really means it; that she is prepared to sacrifice her own son to save who knows how many thousands from the dragonflame? I go into more detail in the first of three very lengthy essays I have planned reflecting on the season (first was ~7.7k words long addressing my top 10 issues with the season, not because I thought it was more bad than good but more because I just really wanted to get the negative stuff out of the way) but I have a wild proposal for how they could have done that final scene differently. This does involve some heavy retconning but oh well. First, have Alicent deliver the terms to Rhaenyra in the Season 1 finale instead of Otto and let them have their Season 2 sept scene on the steps outside Dragonstone instead. Not only does that do away with the issue of there being 2 instances of smuggling a queen into an enemy city unnoticed but it also massively frees up Rhaenyra to take a more active role in the first 3 episodes of Season 2, which would have been greatly appreciated. Next, cut the Mysaria kiss. That was maybe one of the worst additions to the show, not because I don't think Rhaenyra can be queer (trust me, I'll be circling back to that) but because I don't think she would be foolish enough to start getting romantically or sexually involved with a literal spymaster, who also happens to be her uncle-husband's former lover. Also, I've always found the whole "jumping straight to hooking up immediately after trauma dumping about past SA" trope to be extremely gross. I'm fine with Rhaenyra starting to rely on Mysaria more but I found that whole situation unconvincing and nonsensical. Now, the fun bit. Most of the rest of the season can play out largely in the same way it otherwise did, up to Alicent showing up on Dragonstone. Only instead of having her leave immediately, *this* is when Rhaenyra gets her big sapphic moment. The actors themselves have talked about the tension between the two characters and it would have been a much more satisfying and cathartic release with those two than it ever could have been with Rhaenyra and Mysaria. Not to mention deliciously tragic, given the events that'll be kicking off next season. It's not perfect and who knows? Maybe I would hate that too if I weren't the one who came up with it. I just think it would have worked far better and been way more believable. And I could go on (and on and on and on) but if I don't stop myself here, I'll probably end up writing another 7k words...
I would love to see a video about Nettles. She sounds like she'd be an interesting character. There's something about Rhaena, I'm just not warming up to her at all. Could be her poor attitude.
Hey Robert in one of the Season 2 episodes Daemon states that once he has his army, he will march to Kings Landing, capture it (thereby defeating Aemond and any other opposition from the Greens) and proclaim himself as King, and then Rhaenyra would have to decide to become his Queen consort or in other words submit to Daemon Targaryen as the rightful King of the throne but apparently wishing that Rhaenyra submits to him for the accomplishments he would have completed... even though it's easier said and planned than done. However he does waver in that line of thinking which is where those dreams or guilt trips from Alys and the Weirewood beings come into play. It is plausible for Daemon Targaryen to ride into battle himself and accomplish the feats of conquest so long as he was backed by the united Riverlord armies regardless of whether they would claim allegiance or secede towards Rhaenyra because in the more logical sense it would be he as Daemon Targaryen as a warrior and conqueror much like how he won the Wars against the Crab Feeder King at the Step Stones and the fact that he is a man which the rest of the Westerosi would much rather prefer to bend the knee for much like Aegon the Conqueror before him. Which in theory Daemon could indeed accomplish these goals as he does have the battle hardened experience advantage over the younger Aemond and older Vaghar because Daemon has gone through the baptism of fire. Technically speaking Aemond has not really accomplished much other than have Vaguar be a sort of power plowing machine that once it gains some momentum or advantage (usually hiding for a surprise bite attack) he just cannot he easily stopped. Yet again it is ironic and comedic that Daemon had the sound strategy earlier on which means these episodes could have been much shorter and to the point if Daemon would have convinced Rhaenys to sortie together to attack Aemond and Vaghar which would have placed the Greens in a dramatic disadvantage even before they began to take castle keeps. Of course GRRM is the original writer so any complaints about any input from Ryan Condal are moot because GRRM still got his main outline going which is about preventing the more macho character to become a hero so he gives him a rather weak victory against a scrub like the Crab Feeder King which if you recall really did impress the young Rhaenyra as she saw Daemon as a true man of action and getting things done. But yes that's the point, throw away the more well though out plans and just wait for Rhaenyra to massively waste time mourning and forgetting about how Alycent did try to use a dagger to let blood come out of Rhaenyra's arm so that we can have this mess of a story where a lot of characters are just gonna get killed off. Oh yeah and it's hilarious for Rhaenyra to proclaim to plan an attack against Oldtown when she has Maesters serving her and controlling her mail.
It’s underwhelming as a season finale and as the last episode we have for 2 years but if the rest of the show can deliver as well as the individual episodes all have then this episode will be a brilliant piece of the overall story
I genuinely am enjoying my time with the show, I'm sad others aren't but I refuse to take the opinion of the people on Twitter go "omg Helaena was the one messing with Daemon the entire time!" like hate the show if you want but it's like they haven't even been watching to know what they hate.
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Convenient alicent doesn't want power after its completely stripped from her
That’s the whole point? She realized Rhaenys was right. All of it was just a window in her prison
@@morganhunt8051 ya but she's not having that realization while she's on the council. It's like losing a game and right before the end you suggest a draw
@@TheBobbyMetcalf remember the scene in Regent when Aemond is picked as Regent over her? That scene is her, still on the council, realizing she’s lost power.
@@morganhunt8051 right, but that's not the point. She was ready to get down when they met in the church. Had a chance for peace, to live and breathe free air or however she put it. It's not until she is stripped of power AND the betting odds switch in favor of the Black's does she make an effort at peace/surrender. When she's off the council, she still doesn't reach out because she thinks her boys will win. I'm talking about the combination of her loss of power AND the Greens looking like they'll lose. Then she's like, didn't u love me once?
@@morganhunt8051 right. It's not until the Greens are looking like losers that she changes her song from the church meeting. It's those changes combined that leads she to ask for mercy. She had her chance at peace while she was on top. Said no.
Alicent: “Run away with me, Rhaenyra.”
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Were they always low-key lesbians?
indeepgeek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@aSimpleTailor They never were. Rhaenyra loving the D is a part of how we ended up in this mess. At most they were low-key bi.
What is even crazier than Alicent asking is Rhaenyra looking like she wishes she could. Like Rhaenyra has like 6 kids and a husband that she actually does like unlike Alicent who has only he Helaena and Jaehaera. Like as freaking if she’d run away with her ex step mom who started fucking her dad behind her back right after her mom died and raised her damn sons to hate Rhaenyra. She’s lost a daughter and a son because of alicent, and now alicent wants to give up on her own son who actually never wanted to be king but was forced into by her!! Like your tons are terrors because you were a bad mother and you think you deserve to be free of guilt and responsibility. Fuck that
@@aSimpleTailor yes
I like how Aemond was like "all boats in and out of the city must be searched!" and then later that episode Queen Alicent and her kingsguard left by boat to Dragonstone to talk to Rhaenyra. Effective policymaking!
maybe the policy was effective the next business day 😀
Don't let logic ruin the writers story
And it’s far too easy to get into that castle. War should have lasted 5 mins if it’s that easy to infiltrate the enemy base
@@michaelf8221 gold cloaks work for daemon and larys could not lock down a bike In KL all season because he probably works for team black not sure what you have watched all season
@WeirwoodNet what do you mean the goldcloaks work for Alicent did you forget?
The mud wrestling was absurd.
There were definitely two episodes missing this season, one between episodes 5 and 6 depicting the atrocities comited by the Blackwoods in the Riverlands, the interception of Otto Hightowers party, and an introduction of Daeron in Oldtown. And an episode after the finale with two battles the main battle with all the armies and the naval battle in which Aegon and Viserys ship is intercepted.
This was so clearly an 8th episode in a 10 episode season.
totally. I can forgive them that for the writers and actors strike. It was a solidish season, but def could be more well baked. To that end, the next season has to potential to be the best television we have ever seen...so that is nice :D
@@BeCurieUs Don't hold your breath. I'm VERY skeptical after that fiasco Sunday night.
@@cward1701 Fiasco? I would discribe it more as an anti-climax than a fiasco, spare the never ending blockade running :D
@@BeCurieUs The shorter season wasn't a result of the strike, I'm pretty sure that announcement came before the strike. However HBO did kind of screw them, and announce the shortened season after they had started production and after they had plotted everything out for 10 episodes.
@@SRosenberg203 I heard from elsewhere they also couldn't do any rewrites because of the strikes so I am not sure how that all ties in with the episode reduction. In all, it had the makings for utter disaster it sounds like. But they got away to some rather mild "boring and redundant" bits with a slight anti-climax and a few other quibles. Pretty amazing honestly given the challenges. The nettles situation has me a bit worried, so it isn't all good news, but I think it was overall a great season with a few small blemishes.
In the Godswood, Alfred Broome is talking to Daemon. With subtitles on, you hear someone whisper "traitor", to Broome, to which he responded "Did you hear that?", and Daemon responded with,"This place will have you......."
Also, may be callback to Bran when he uses the Wierwood Trees to view history and keeps saying stuff people hear, like Ned and Hodor
that was legit the most frustrating season finale of just about any show I've ever watched
bold to say that about a tv show set in the ASOIAF universe, with the infamy of season 8
I geeked at the green man, so spooky and mysterious. Disappointed we didn't see Vhagara go full kaiju this ep, would've been a great way to show the horror dragon riders can inflict
Would've loved to see that as part of the Aemond's actions at the port town Sharp Point! An opportunity missed by the showmakers.
Rhaenyra: A son for a son...
Alicent: Reluctantly, I agr...wait...your lot murdered Jaehaerys. You're getting more than just a son, was not the debt paid?
Rhaenyra: Yea...let me get back to you on this one, we may need to go to arbitration. Sorry bout that.
🤣🤣🤣 that’s what i was thinking lol…like they got aegon’s son just like the green’s got one of rhaenyra’s sons but i guess alicent wasn’t in a position to bargain
INDEEP geek!!!!!
The whole season felt like it was strung out to avoid the actual war starting properly. Two episodes of visions in melted castles would have been plenty.
the s2 writers kind of forgot about GoT s8. i guess arya killing the night king is subverting our expectations for 2 shows worth of material now!
The end of GOT turns the entire plotline into a bad joke.
Anyone else feel like a bunch of stuff happened in this season but nothing really happened?
That's politics, bay-bee!
But seriously, yes, I know exactly what you mean.
no. hush
if you paid attention to what indeepgeek was saying, you wouldn't make such a comment.
Definitely
"How many eyes does Bloodraven have?"
A thousand eyes plus... 2?
Wait, that's not right 😅
I don't understand how hard is it to give him one eye (even better if it's red)
@@iamnotfunnyfunny2910 Game of Thrones attempted to give Targaryens purple eyes, but decided such visual effects didn't look good.
It ironic Otto said Daemon would be the next Maegor but it was really Aemond.
@@Cgl3g3nd good observation
Otto only cares about his and the Citadel's agenda to wipe out the dragons. They'll put whoever they have to on the throne to make that goal easier to manipulate into reality.
Maegor was well on his way to being a great Targaryen prince until he was married off to a barren woman a decade his elder that just so happened to have the last name Hightower. Most of what is written in Westeros is a facade.
Bullshit. Aemond isn't even remotely close to maegor he's just fighting that war that they started. Criston cole has killed as many people as Aemond I don't see you calling him maegor.
@@Tupadre97 Pretty much. At the end of the day he is trying to win
We needed the money shot. Imagine if at the end of season 1 of GOT Danny doesn’t hatch her eggs, robbed isn’t crowned king in the north, and Tyrion isn’t named hand. But all this is done in the first of episode of season 2.
Changes the whole feeling of the season.
You’re right, that would be weird. Except that was the first season of the show, not the second. We already know the events that are propelling the future story. The war breaking out at the end of S1 was more significant than any change in the war’s status that could have ended this season
This is the end of S2 and comparing it to the GOT s2 finale, it matches in term of scope in many ways. Ends with buildup to the next season's larger conflict and ties up personal conflicts to make room for the beats of S3.
The "money shot" from the S2 finale is the entrance of the white walkers and and Dany killing Xaro. I would argue both are equivalent to Daemon's final visions and the march of all the armies to war. However, i agree my humble manhood will be purple until s3 as well though. 😂
@@LostInTheWoods1 money shot haha
@@shanesalyers5433 The climax of season 2 of GoT was the Blackwater, so tenth episode wasn't promising any big upcoming battle in the War of the Five Kings.
Lol raena‘s face when she sees that dragon is WILD 😂
I got to the end when the music’s playing and everyone’s gazing offscreen and all I could say was “Wait, that’s it?”
Season 3 better be nonstop spectacle because this season was frustrating as hell
I can’t understand wanting “nonstop spectacle” because I’m here for the character drama. Like George says, all the fantasy stuff is just set dressing. GOT S7 and 8 was definitely going for nonstop spectacle and we saw how that went
@@morganhunt8051 to each their own
I expected a series about a devastating war between dragon riders to have showcased a bit more actual warfare by now instead of conversations and acid trips
@@rudebodega Would they have gone through with the initially planned 10 episodes, we would have gotten two action set-pieces (Rook's Rest & the Red Sowing) plus a big episode-filling battle, which will now instead happen in season 3.
We already got more action this season than in season 1 and much of early Game of Thrones, which arguably was where the show was at it's best. People seem to forget that ASoIaF is a character-drama first and foremost set in a fantasy world and not some high-fantasy action adventure story.
I agree this season was a bit drawn out at times, especially with Daemons Harrenhal scenes but don't pretend GoT/HotD is supposed to be all action.
@morganhunt8051 because nonstop spectacle is the only thing that can save us from the dog shit boring ass Rhaenyra and Alicent scenes.
You're why we got seasons 7 and 8 of GOT....non stop spectacle....zero logic or drama.
When we see the white walkers in Daemon’s vision it’s through the eyes of a wolf
Removing Nettles threw me off so bad 😑 idk what the thought process was.
To NEVER make Rhaenyra look bad
@@evripidisalexiou6060 yahtzee.
"How can we save the cost of another speaking actor?"
I hate it so much, but that's it. That's the reason.
it wouldn't have thrown you off if you paid attention to what indeepgeek said.
There wasnt a thought process. So stupid
Your sarcasm in this video is great!
Lol subtle call out that RC gave the wrong House in his interview for Sharp Pointe "home of house Massey on the show" 😉
thanks for watching, take care, and we'll see you again soon!
No Ice & Fire expert by any means but having read the books and watched the shows, I have to be disappointed that the show is now just grouping all of the magical elements into one big thing. The separation between the weirwoods and the Targaryens makes sense because the dragon riders came from Old Valyria while the weirwoods, children of the forest etc have been on Westeros for eons. Combining all of these together, nearly 200 years before Game of Thrones starts isn't necessary and in a way cheapens the numerous different forms of magic we see in the original show. Daemon doesn't need this vision of the future to motivate him to do the right thing for once, all of his other nightmares and visions have already shown him that he's been on the wrong path and in the book his sudden return to the war and masterstroke is even more satisfying because it is so unexpected.
Ok first of all, Bloodraven very obviously has a foot in both the Valyrian and Weirwood camps and he was the very first magical character we ever met, so there has always been crossover in magical elements. Melisandre also blends two magics, R'hllor's power and shadowbinding. Mixing magic doesn't cheapen anything because it's been happening the whole time. Second, Daemon dies. It doesn't matter that he was given so much proprietary information from the Weirwoods because the tragic irony is that it'll die with him. It doesn't change or spoil any of the established continuity.
I agree with you about Daemon and how this shouldn’t be the deciding factor in his motivations. However, I liked the mixing of Valyrian magic and old god’s magic. I think it fits into the lore quite well, Bloodraven is a testament to that. We already know magic in a sense is an interconnected web, where those of all differing magical affiliations (R’holloric, The Others, Elementals, Warlocks) have noted an increase in the efficacy of their specific magical disciplines - in the main series. Also a common ground for both Valyrian/ Essosi and Old God’s magic is the necessity of sacrifice for powerful “spells” that is a constant that I think derives some familiar existence.
@@Levacque Bloodraven wasn't the very first magical character we met, Melisandre was.
When they turn away instead of head bumping at Harrenhal, I read it as an agreement that they can't be intimate with each other in front of the army that they just recruited. They have to show strength and leave the closeness together. I didn't see it as a rejection at all. If anything, the fact they both turned away, together, it was a move without needing words to communicate. That showed how close they actually can be
I think Jon _is_ the Prince that was Promised, the Song of Ice and Fire, and Dany is Azor Ahai. I think people both in and out of universe have conflated the two prophecies.
It’s called the “prince who was promised” for a reason! A “prince consort” is the term for the husband of a QUEEN. So they both had a part to play. ❤
The best thing about the episode was Simon Strong clapping his hands in delight when Damon knelt to Rhaenera. You only see it out of focus in the background, but Simon Russell Beale is such a great actor that he judged it perfectly. Big enough to be noticed, but not over the top.
Massive agree the only takeaway this season is I
And i have to say the acting and set design, costume and attention to detail, production, editing, special effects and directing across the board has been absolutely phenomenal in season 2. What talent they have assembled. Truly magnificent. I want a Simon Strong for Christmas.
Who doesn't want Simon Strong? He is an absolute treasure
Here are my 4 biggest gripes and why I want to take HBO or Ryan Condal outside and fight them in the back alley:
#1. I wish the show runners would STOP bringing up the white walkers! We all know that the white walkers were defeated in LITERAL HOURS and by a 90 pound girl with a dagger no less, so the writers reminding us of this constantly just HURTS! Tywin F*cking Lannister had a bigger impact on Westeros than the white walkers FFS! It should be Tywin or even Robert Baratheon who is haunting the dreams of Targaryens because GOT already proved to fans that the white walkers ain’t sh*t. So unless they can find a clever way to fix Season 8, retcon it or do another show showing the white walkers are still alive and that the night king operates through Bran or some sh*t, stop trying to gaslight fans into believing that the apocalypse is in the future when we ALL SAW what happened. Not to mention that the inclusion of the white walkers hindered Daemon’s arc because now fans don’t know if he is supporting Rhaenyra because he’s changed and because of all the vision therapy he’s had all season or because he now knows about the apocalypse. It makes all the previous visions feel like a waste and it makes Daemon’s arc of finally standing by Rhaenyra feel kinda cheap.
#2. Rhaenyra Freaking Targaryen. Lord knows why the writers thought a more peaceful, calm, rational Rhaenyra would make for a more entertaining story than the Rhaenyra GRRM crafted. The woman lost her son, lost her throne, lost Rhaenys, lost her two most loyal sworn swords, lost her father, lost her baby and came within an inch of being ASSASSINATED and that STILL wasn’t enough for her to want blood or to become a bit ruthless. It doesn’t feel like those events even happened. We should be seeing a gradual escalation in her brutality but instead it feels more like a yo-yo. When I saw her feed those bastards to The Bronze Fury I was so pumped but this darkness in Rhaenyra didn’t last which was disappointing. They constantly tease fans with these intense face expressions she keeps making that allude to her becoming dark, even having her turn around and glare into the camera in the season 1 finale like sh*t is about to POP OFF, only for fans to learn a couple scenes or episodes later that she actually still wants no bloodshed. They keep doing this! For instance, after the epic scene of Rhaenyra on Dragonstone where she’s looking like a badass and glaring at Aemond as he fled, Rhaenyra met with Corlys and Coryls had to CONVINCE Rhaenyra to fight! Like, f*ck me. The writers actually had Rhaenyra open her mouth to say to Coryls that she had just planned on using her newly gained dragons as a deterrence for Aemond. A F*CKING DETTERENCE. END ME ALREADY. Stop with the yo-yo-ing! We should see her ruthlessness building up episode by episode but instead we see her go back and forth and it makes me dizzy. Stop putting fans on these amazing highs for her character just to do nothing with it.
#3. I don’t care about Rhaena’s story anymore. She makes the same damn pikachu face all season and we’ve ALREADY seen the storyline of a Targaryen child being belittled and feeling bad because they don’t have a dragon and then claiming a dragon, and that child’s name was AEMOND! Except it was done much better there. Why do fans need to see this story again? Just claim a dragon or don’t goddamnit! They’ve dedicated like 5-6 scenes to this! Can you imagine if it took 5 scenes just for Aemond to claim Vhagar? These scenes have overstayed their welcome. I don’t care anymore. I hope Sheepstealer EATS her. 😂 At least that would add a little more excitement and shock to the show. Baela would be like “WUT?!?!” when she hears the news and the news could be delivered by NETTLES who goes on to explain that Sheepstealer killed Rhaena because it already had a rider: herself. 😂 I’m half joking but that would actually make Rhaena’s scenes rewatchable. Because at this point, if I rewatch this season, I’ll definitely be fast forwarding through ALL of Rhaena’s scenes. The show is making me hate Rhaena but not because she’s easy to hate but because she’s taking up time and space that should’ve been given to more important, more interesting characters. Also, are you telling me that the daughter of Daemon Targaryen, the sister of the future queen, the grandchild of Coryls and Rhaenys and someone of her high status can just wonder off and no one notices her missing or goes looking for her?! Like WTF is even happening here? The 6 guards lady Arryn sent need to be fired for real. They had ONE JOB!
All in all, despite my rant here, I still thought the season was good, that it’s the best show on television right now and that it can be redeemed in season 3. Fix it, HBO! And I’m starting to think Sarah Hess needs to GO. She makes some really stupid decisions and doesn’t understand the implications of those decisions or how bad her ideas f*ck up the entire show. She makes changes to the story but doesn’t think too deeply into it. When I saw that she wrote this episode, I said to myself that she probably wrote the only episode I didn’t like in season 1 where Rhaenys crashes through the floor uninjured and without a scratch on her, and also murders loads of people in the process… assassinating Rhaenys’ character and making her suddenly wanting no bloodshed in season 2 seem strange…and then I checked IMDB and I was RIGHT, she wrote that episode! That woman needs to be fired.
I don’t understand why people dislike the Tyrosh scenes so much and say it was a waste of time. It sets up a very important plot line for S3, gives some very needed levity in a pretty serious finale, and also is completely confined to the first act of the episode. I checked, the last Tyland scene ends less than 30 minutes in
Full agreement here, aside from Tyland. I actually liked his scenes and, yeah the bar is low, but it was one of the better scenes this episode
@@morganhunt8051I don’t dislike those scenes, I’m frustrated because they are in the finale where other scenes far more important should’ve had priority. There’s no reason that had to be in the finale. It should’ve been spread throughout the season and it would’ve been great.
Definitely agree with the yoyo characters. You never know what they are going to throw at you. (And no, it doesn't create suspense. It just makes it not make sense!)
Yes. This 100%
The season that never was
lol love that so much 😂
Best comment
Yess. 😂😂😂
Spot on!!! 🙌
I was trying to come up with a more clever name for Corlys's ship. The Sea Noodle? The Dead Beat Dad?
I would argue that the magics are not the same, but with bloodravens entrance into Daemon’s vision, he connects them, which allows Helena in.
@@AvalonCN ooooh. I like that. 👍nice observation
How did Tyland Lannister sail to Tyrosh when the gullet is closed?
With how easy it is to get into Dragonstone, it’s a wonder the war wasn’t won within a day
The decline in writing from season 1 to season 2 was shocking. I wanted to believe but ended up very disappointed.
aka Sara Hess…
The Northern army looks badass and grizzled.
I think we're also seeing the power of the Targaryens beginning to waver with the death of Jaherys. No one listens to them as much. They are argued with more and less of their own policys are being put in place. Its like the Council distracts them by jingling keys while they all seek to get their way. The only things they get allowed to do are things that diminish their standing. Thats why security gets extra lax while the baby boy Targaryens are distracted by their egos.
People also be saying that nothing is happening even though they make a list of many things happening. They simply dont respect whats happening if it doesn't include generic action, death or destruction.
Miguel Sapochnik's absence was felt quite a bit this season, his departure clearly hurt the show, I'm surprised how little people talk about it.
Same guy who came up with the long night battle? Dothraki charging first, trebuchets outside the walls, the list goes on.
I remember before season 2 aired that he announced he was leaving. I was preparing for the worst. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't better than the first season unfortunately.
I attribute the huge drop off to his departure too. HBO should’ve made his wife a producer, there’s no way she’s worse at her job than Sara Hess.
@@pstratos7 Yeah, the same guy that made Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and The Wind of Winter. That guy.
@@vincentvega22 battle of the bastards where Jon snow stands in front of a stampede and live bc plot armor, wow we’re really missing out on some great stuff
GRRM is cursed to have all adaptations of his works abhorrently misrepresented, man needs to finish the books more now than ever.
Very dramatic. Perfect for reddit.
Was Nightflyers that bad?
Made a lot of money, though.
How could the tree network see Danny and her dragons since they were in Essos when the scene depicted occurred?
There was a weir wood branch cell phone laying near by…
Something to do with the vision being only a projection of the future by the gods or whomever, not necessarily something real that the tree saw / recorded.
Green seers at first can only see things in the tree network. Later they can see beyond. No doubt similar to the Targaryen Dragon Dreams, which now appear connected.
Cuz all magic isntyr same now why would anything be unique or interesting anymore?
Great content mi lord
Did not appreciate all the spoilers the writers just casually decided to tell in this episode, what the hell were they thinking?
Aegon delivered "The Realm's Delight" with bitter irony in his voice. I think being told by his mother that he is a pawn without agency has broken him psychologically, as the fall/burn has broken him physically.
I've been getting strong Wicker Man/Midsommar vibes from Daemon's time at Harrenhal. Like Sgt. Howie he's been led on a merry dance by the locals, and I think is being primed for sacrifice by Alys and the Green Men.
Really stupid for Helena to just outright spoil what's going to happen for the non book readers. Why would they do that.
Non-bookreaders don't know it is a spoiler, unless you tell them.
THANK YOU ROBERT!!! Immediately after the episode ended I was nerding out regarding the dragon dreams and weirwood visions being, seemingly, linked, and I've been DYING to hear someone discuss it in-depth!
That by itself made this entire finale worth-while. Completely changes the game if this is true for the books as well.
I was wondering why the Riverlords were hesitating to kneel when Rhaenyra arrived at Harrenhal. When they're sworn to her and not Daemon, as we were told in previous episodes, why did they wait for Daemon bending the knee? Any ideas?
Did they just not know it was her? :DDD
I hope you bring back the travelers guide
I enjoyed the episode but seeing as we will likely have to wait two years for S3, I think we should have gotten a couple more episodes this season with the beginning of open warfare.
I don't think the show is saying Dany is TPTWP. I think it merely showed Daemon what he needed to see so that he would return to Rhaenyra. If Daemon were a Stark it likely would have shown Jon Snow. He's just a piece getting pushed around by the gods and they only tell him just enough information.
Great episode, bad finale.
You can clearly see this season was initially planned for 10 episodes. You'd have had the GoT-staple with a big, tide-changing battle in episode 9, followed by the aftermath in episode 10. Instead we got a 70 minutes--long teaser for season 3.
They ***could*** have made this work in 8 episodes I think by deleting some Harrenhal scenes with Daemon and moving Rhaenettles to season 3 entirely for example, but that would have required extensive rewriting (which would have been even more difficult than cutting two episodes due to the writers strike). On top of that, it probably would have felt a bit too rushed, something the later seasons of GoT have suffered immensely from and which the showrunners probably wanted to avoid.
As sad as it is, I think having this rather disappointing finale was the best outcome we could have hoped for among the strikes and greed from the studios wanting 4 seasons instead of 3.
Your first statement makes everything else you say hard to read. How can it be a great episode but a bad finale? Some of y’all think you are so open minded, but you just sound confused.
@@bekongwu602 I mean it as I've written. It would have been a great Episode 8 in a 10 Episode season and I thoroughly enjoyed it but it's not a great finale (and wasn't intended to be).
Made perfect sense to me.
It was a terrible episode regardless of what was planned and a terrible season of television overall. You don't get a pass for a boring season even if you have two extra episodes.
@@ULTIMAFAX also true
The finale was certainly not bad but i’d say somewhat underwhelming for me not only the finale but the season overall. My biggest gripe probably all the lore changes ; seems quite a bit more this season compared to S1. All adaptations will have some lore changes but this season seemed to feature many needless avoidable examples and many to me actually compromised the characters and narrative a bit. Also , felt a bit underwhelmed with many of the character choices in particular ; to each their own but many characters to me just did not feel recognizable compared to their textual versions and some just seemed to even contradict their S1 depictions a bit. Be it Rhaenyra , Daemon , Alicent , Corlys , Rhaenys , Alyn and others just not getting the vibes i expected based on their textual versions. Daemon i wouldn’t say utilized so well this season other than his introspective aspects. Daemon's finale visions were prophetic and interesting but somewhat swerved the seeming theme of working through his own inner demons , guilt and regret to facilitate change. Alicent as well wouldn’t say was best utilized in S2 and seemed quite a divergence not only from the text but from S1 as well.
The finale itself at least to me not super memorable or eventful and considering we will likely not see HotD again for about 2 years (typically the case of late) not sure quite powerful enough to leave us off that way. The finale felt like a bridge / build-up type episode rather than memorable. The same could be said for the season overall , a couple big beats aside not a lot very memorable imo. Even with the shortened season , of course that does not help and we miss certain aspects due to such cuts; but with quite long episodes still do not think we got enough character or narrative progression or best use of screen / air time that was on offer.
I like HotD , i find it well done and will for sure continue to watch ; but i did much prefer S1 to S2 and I would advocate for less lore changes , less tie-ins to the main series, picking up the pace a bit and including more memorable / impactful moments & elements.
Not kinda, not a bit. A lot. A lot of awful, senseless lore changes
Thanks for the breakdowns INDEEPGEEK!!! its been an awesome ride this season!!!!!! I hope to join you again next season!!!!!!
thanks for watching, take care, and we'll see you again soon!
indeepgeek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the video Robert!
Personally, I was thrilled with how this season ended. My wife hasn't read the book, and it gives me joy to witness her struggle. Chaos is a ladder.
God literally 2 or 3 episodes was all this season needed. A whole lot of boring really.
They basically wasted 8 episodes in things that could've been showed in 3 just to get an extra season. The current state of PPV series is pathetic.
Your breakdowns are the best, because you actually know the lore. Another channel said the horned man was a Wendigo....
Lol. Who?
@@gathenhielm9977 ThinkStory In his latest episode, at 16 and a half minutes in. Now, I have to say, apart from that "oopsie" I generally really Iike his episode breakdowns.
INDEEPGEEK!!!!!!!!!
see that's what i mean, indeepgeek has the best breakdown for game of thrones!
SPOILER FOR NON BOOK READERS
But...Nettles and Sheepstealer disappear together...so what will they do now? Rhaena can't disappear with Sheepstealer and she's supposed to hatch Morning...now what?
8:25 what if there are no dragon dreams, what if it’s just Blood Raven or time traveling Bran? Like if we start to assume Dragon magic and old gods’ magic works on somewhat the same frequency, or are one and the same. Then it would stand to reason even Daenys the Dreamer was only the dreamer because Blood Raven willed it so.
Thanks for watching, take care, and we'll see you again soon!!!!
INDEEPGEEK!!!! ^_^ ✌✌✌
Its obvious from their interviewers the show runners are clueless and dont understand the story.
Worse than DnD who had to finish an incomplete story, they have the whole thing mapped out ffs
She’s gonna be pissed when Aegon isn’t at the castle. She might take Alicent’s head for being a liar 🤥
I really don't get why Helena suddenly hates Aemond so much, the guy has literally never don't anything to her, and seemed to actually care about her when they were young or am I missing something?
I love that the vision came from the tree with GRRM's face on it, as if Daemon was literally reaching into the author's mind to see the story there.
Also, the talk of not being the focus of the story but just playing a part brings to mind Rhargar, specifically how he had thought that HE was the Prince that was Promised, but later realises it was someone else. I wonder what prompted that change for him - I wonder if it could have been a similar experience? (Possibly also at Harrenhal even?)
Been waiting for this 🖤
Thank you for all you do for the fandom
Wow, this really sets things up for the season finale! I can't wait. 😐
At 9:50 they had just gotten to Rhaenyra at Harrenhall i knew nothing was going to happen. Except Ulf making me wish Silverwing chewed him up instead.
Alicent deciding to betray her family and letting for Aegon execution is the lowest of the lows the show could go. It is Jaime level character assasination
Alicent should have said "you killed Jaehaerys" when Rhaenyra said " a son for a son" the writers "kinda forgot" about the beheaded child
Not sure what you're talking about - Rhaenyra pushed Alicent to make a decision on whether Alicent would want to see her son killed to welcome Rhaenyra to the throne, and she was silent, and then Rhaenyra knew negotiations had failed. Where do you get the impression that Alicent consented to her son's execution?
@@botmoonky1The books clearly explain why and how the Blacks knew to strike King’s Landing. I’m not sure what you’re suggesting otherwise.
@@LordTomServo "the prince still had friends in kings landing and word of his nephews plans had reached him even before aemond had set out" thats not entirely clear who had given the prince that info
@@botmoonky1 Understanding the difference between show canon and book canon, we can safely deduce that it was not Alicent and certainly not on Dragonstone. By Fire and Blood standards, that passage is as clear-cut of an explanation as can be received. The absence of a name assigned to the information is irrelevant; it was a Daemon loyalist who provided him with the information from King’s Landing. There is only one opinion on how Daemon received the information, unlike the Brothel Queens scenario where the reader is left to decide the veracity.
The wait for season 3 will be much easier than the wait for Season 2 was.
I was gonna say that but we’ll see
Thanks so much for all the breakdowns throughout this season of game of thrones, house of the dragon!!!!
Your breakdowns has made game of thrones house of the dragon even more enjoyable!!!
indeepgeek!!!!
My count could be off but Season 1 covered approximately 75 pages of material and rarely did it feel like any time was wasted. Season 2 covered at maximum 25 pages. Explains all the filler.
It seems some people feel the Prince That Was Promised must personally defeat the threat (i.e. kill the Night King themselves). I don't see it that way. The hero who rises up may be likened more to a general who draws people together and plans the battle against the threat.
Do you think Alicent arranged for Otto's imprisonment as soon as he arrived after he was recalled by Aemond to set in motion her and Helaena's escape plan.
There is no reason why this season took almost 3 years to make with how little happened
I for one can imagine Alicent thinks killing Aegon would be mercy at this point. so maimed and broken. People say she loves her children and she thinks she does but sometimes love is letting people go. even letting your fanfic drive the plot of the show in the direction where kings landings boat search has more holes than fishing net .
Was a great episode and thanks for the review as always! Your channel is the best.
See you all in 2 years when Im allowed to feel joy again!
I share your frustration Robert
Good episode, horrid way to end a season (especially when it’s such a long wait until the next).
I don't get the complaints. You don't need a flashy battle to end a season, I liked it.
It was a good ep, just not a finale
That’s fine if you liked it. Leave us alone if we didn’t…
You do need payoff though and we got 0 of that
Rhaenyra and Alicents 2nd meeting feels tedious and completely out of place. All Alicent had to do was get the guards and the whole war is over. In this episode Rhaenyra could have had massive leverage if she captured Alicent.
@@alexmartin3143 OP isn't attacking your opinions simply because they don't agree. And if you want to be left alone and not discuss anything then why bother commenting at all?
15:22 who’s getting the dragon seeds ready? Didn’t the order of dragon keepers quit or went on strike?
The writers kinda forgot that the dragon keepers quit.
@@JamesDeBall 😳🤌
🤣🤣🤣
This whole season felt like a lot of set up, there were certainly high points and memorable moments but I was hoping for more action
Danys Dragons in show canon were what allowed the Whites to cross the wall. Maybe that's all they were meant for. Targaryen exceptionalism and prophecy are insane.
It was a great mid-season finale.
I have a question regaring Tywin, I mean Tyrod, I mean Tylenonl... I mean Tyland Lannister? How did he get past the blockade & sail to Essos?
@6:39 I mean technically (assuming the show follows the book as far as Aemond's final battle,) he is dead before he hits the water due to a severe case of Valyrian-steel-to-the-brain, so he never drowns. But yes his body does sit at the bottom of the God's Eye for a long time until Vhagar's and his bones are recovered
The show jumped the shark for me after they fumbled Blood and Cheese, but this season finale dug up the corpse, torched it and pissed on the ashes. Daemon's visions and Helaena's suddenly clear dreams completely ruin the narrative because, as stated in the video, the future is pre-destined. So there's nothing to get invested in. Choices don't matter.
This show has consistently done a terrible job of denying the characters any agency. Well now it's canonical that none of them have a shred of it because in-universe all outcomes are predetermined, even centuries in advance. Everyone on screen is an NPC.
The war finally began. And it only took an ENTIRE SEASON
Rook's Rest wasn't part of the war?
@@clownpendotfart and basically that's the only thing happened this season
There are some definite reasons to critique this finale, but overall I'm really quite happy with it. 10 episodes would have been better, but given the complicated production, I think they did their best with what they had
Excellent analysis, Robert! I like particularly the magical connection between Daemond and Haelena... this is great! Daemon and Aemond destiny is sealed, we know they will die. Impressive and powerful. Thanks
I feel like the Weirwood magic and the Fire and Blood magic will be separate aspects in the books, whereas in the show they're blending it all. Perhaps it will all turn out to be different facets of the same power in the end though.
It almost looks like they knew the next two episodes 9 and 10 would have needed a lot of action so instead they probably ran out of budget...
And also probably had a hard time keeping episodes a aecret cause they said that one of the episodes leaked somehow...
Love the breakdown thanks dude !! 🤘🏽
I feel like I have some pretty controversial opinions on the finale, mostly having to do with the final scene. To be honest, my initial reaction when I saw Alicent on Dragonstone was a massive sigh and eye roll. I mean, come on. Having one queen sneak herself into the city controlled by the other is a bit iffy but not terrible. But having both of them do it in the same season?
But the more I think about it, the more it works for me and not just because Djiwadi was pumping out his best work since "Light of the Seven" at the end of that episode. I had previously defended the scene at the end of episode 3 because I thought it was important for us to see how Alicent reacted to the truth of Viserys's last words. I'm still not totally on board with the logistics of the episode 8 scene but I do think it was equally as important. We needed to see that she really means it; that she is prepared to sacrifice her own son to save who knows how many thousands from the dragonflame?
I go into more detail in the first of three very lengthy essays I have planned reflecting on the season (first was ~7.7k words long addressing my top 10 issues with the season, not because I thought it was more bad than good but more because I just really wanted to get the negative stuff out of the way) but I have a wild proposal for how they could have done that final scene differently. This does involve some heavy retconning but oh well.
First, have Alicent deliver the terms to Rhaenyra in the Season 1 finale instead of Otto and let them have their Season 2 sept scene on the steps outside Dragonstone instead. Not only does that do away with the issue of there being 2 instances of smuggling a queen into an enemy city unnoticed but it also massively frees up Rhaenyra to take a more active role in the first 3 episodes of Season 2, which would have been greatly appreciated.
Next, cut the Mysaria kiss. That was maybe one of the worst additions to the show, not because I don't think Rhaenyra can be queer (trust me, I'll be circling back to that) but because I don't think she would be foolish enough to start getting romantically or sexually involved with a literal spymaster, who also happens to be her uncle-husband's former lover. Also, I've always found the whole "jumping straight to hooking up immediately after trauma dumping about past SA" trope to be extremely gross. I'm fine with Rhaenyra starting to rely on Mysaria more but I found that whole situation unconvincing and nonsensical.
Now, the fun bit. Most of the rest of the season can play out largely in the same way it otherwise did, up to Alicent showing up on Dragonstone. Only instead of having her leave immediately, *this* is when Rhaenyra gets her big sapphic moment. The actors themselves have talked about the tension between the two characters and it would have been a much more satisfying and cathartic release with those two than it ever could have been with Rhaenyra and Mysaria. Not to mention deliciously tragic, given the events that'll be kicking off next season.
It's not perfect and who knows? Maybe I would hate that too if I weren't the one who came up with it. I just think it would have worked far better and been way more believable. And I could go on (and on and on and on) but if I don't stop myself here, I'll probably end up writing another 7k words...
3:35 the smirk and intrigue music l cuts were pretty over-used it has to be said
Bloodraven seems to be championing Jon in the books? He actually seems to be more involved with Bran.
I would love to see a video about Nettles. She sounds like she'd be an interesting character. There's something about Rhaena, I'm just not warming up to her at all. Could be her poor attitude.
Hey Robert in one of the Season 2 episodes Daemon states that once he has his army, he will march to Kings Landing, capture it (thereby defeating Aemond and any other opposition from the Greens) and proclaim himself as King, and then Rhaenyra would have to decide to become his Queen consort or in other words submit to Daemon Targaryen as the rightful King of the throne but apparently wishing that Rhaenyra submits to him for the accomplishments he would have completed... even though it's easier said and planned than done.
However he does waver in that line of thinking which is where those dreams or guilt trips from Alys and the Weirewood beings come into play.
It is plausible for Daemon Targaryen to ride into battle himself and accomplish the feats of conquest so long as he was backed by the united Riverlord armies regardless of whether they would claim allegiance or secede towards Rhaenyra because in the more logical sense it would be he as Daemon Targaryen as a warrior and conqueror much like how he won the Wars against the Crab Feeder King at the Step Stones and the fact that he is a man which the rest of the Westerosi would much rather prefer to bend the knee for much like Aegon the Conqueror before him.
Which in theory Daemon could indeed accomplish these goals as he does have the battle hardened experience advantage over the younger Aemond and older Vaghar because Daemon has gone through the baptism of fire.
Technically speaking Aemond has not really accomplished much other than have Vaguar be a sort of power plowing machine that once it gains some momentum or advantage (usually hiding for a surprise bite attack) he just cannot he easily stopped.
Yet again it is ironic and comedic that Daemon had the sound strategy earlier on which means these episodes could have been much shorter and to the point if Daemon would have convinced Rhaenys to sortie together to attack Aemond and Vaghar which would have placed the Greens in a dramatic disadvantage even before they began to take castle keeps.
Of course GRRM is the original writer so any complaints about any input from Ryan Condal are moot because GRRM still got his main outline going which is about preventing the more macho character to become a hero so he gives him a rather weak victory against a scrub like the Crab Feeder King which if you recall really did impress the young Rhaenyra as she saw Daemon as a true man of action and getting things done.
But yes that's the point, throw away the more well though out plans and just wait for Rhaenyra to massively waste time mourning and forgetting about how Alycent did try to use a dagger to let blood come out of Rhaenyra's arm so that we can have this mess of a story where a lot of characters are just gonna get killed off.
Oh yeah and it's hilarious for Rhaenyra to proclaim to plan an attack against Oldtown when she has Maesters serving her and controlling her mail.
Blood Raven was the most exciting part of this episode
It’s underwhelming as a season finale and as the last episode we have for 2 years but if the rest of the show can deliver as well as the individual episodes all have then this episode will be a brilliant piece of the overall story
i wonder if the reason Helaena was able to connect to the weirwood vision is maybe her Hightower blood?
I genuinely am enjoying my time with the show, I'm sad others aren't but I refuse to take the opinion of the people on Twitter go "omg Helaena was the one messing with Daemon the entire time!" like hate the show if you want but it's like they haven't even been watching to know what they hate.