You should probably test how long it takes to boil 380ml of water (that's about the amount needed for a hiking meal). The bioethanol looked like it was burning faster, and hotter. I've also heard that adding water to bioethanol might help it burn longer, so you might want to try that :)
Actually very informative. If you want to just boil water as fast as possible, then go for bio-ethanol. If you want to actually cook and have control over the heat and cook time, methys. If boiling water 3 mins faster is important to you I suggest you forget camping and get a hotel room with a cheap mini-kettle.
And if its closer to a big city say Manchester the selection of escorts is a bit more varied! So one can share that bed and thus increase the efficiency of at least something! Just sayin :-)
Due to the recent cold weather I tried using one of those small candles under the trangia to warm it up. I have a trangia 27 so have the space underneath. It gets the meths warm very quickly and it blooms almost immediately.
another Trangia user, Iv got my original stove from early 80s, so its good to go wind tests but think it would be more useful to time boiling water, and same setup with no wind, Iv tried Bio fuel and must admit I’ve gone back to Meths it works better all round, bio is quicker I find but uses more fuel.
Another Trangia fan here too. I have 3. A 27 series cookset (my go to), a 28 mini (fun and cute but hopeless in wind) and a triangle (very compact and handy but not much better than the 28 mini in wind). The 27 series is my favourite bit of kit and goes with us on every hike, day trip in the car (just Incase) and trip to the beach for a brew/hot chocolate. I find the addition of 10% water to meths keeps it a bit more civilised and under control. Was considering going down the bio ethanol route but think I'll stick to meths now.
Your comparison didnt show which is actually better. Just because it burns longer does not mean it burns better. If the bio burns hotter and boils faster and meth burns cooler so takes longer then about same amount of fuel required. Meth then could be better for simmering. To simmer use chaffing fuel which is also safer.
Totally in agreement. Ethanol does burn hotter. How much hotter would that translate in boiling water and the likes... For simmering, I'd say for simmering the ethanol you'd need the simmer ring to control the amount of flame. Not so much needed for meths (with a spot of water to stop soot).
That would depend on your usage. I not only boil water but cook for two people on the stove so a longer burn time is relevant to me and others in the same position.
Meths will blacken anything and stinks... Bio is odourless and only slightly blackens...But you can add a little water to the meths to lessen the blackening. 👍
Interesting video. I haven't tried bio ethanol in any of my Trangia stoves and based on your test, don't think I'll bother. I too water my meths down with 10% water and find it calms the burn down a bit. I find neat meths to be a bit wild. This is also supposed to reduce sooting on cooking pots although I'm not so sure it makes much difference. Incidentally, I have tried diluting meths with 20% water and found it takes way too long to bloom and in cold weather, struggles to fully bloom at all. 10% seems to be the optimum I think. Keep up the videos and thanks for sharing.
@@wildernesslifecraft8180 Pure isopropyl alcohol has similar price to bioethanol or high quality denatured ethyl alcohol (rectified and dehydrated with 99 percent). Methylated spirit is just a raw spirit (usually 92 percent) with additional chemicals to make it unable to drink (like denatonium benzoate, most bitter substance know to mankind making a gag reflex). But unlike bioethanol, methylated spirit stinks like nail polish with a hint of chocolate (it is smell of raw distilled spirit). I know it from experience, because I was able to buy cheap high quality pure denatured alcohol (which does not stink) and pure isopropyl alcohol (for about 2,5 US dollars per liter). I use them not as fuel, but solvents and cleaning agents and their properties are very similar.
Wonder what kind of denaturating agent is used in different countries. Because I don't find a lot of difference. But here the ordinary denaturated ethanol isn't colored either. Both burns very clean but the ordinary denaturated stuff is much cheaper. One liter in the grochery store is still cheaper per liter than buying bioethanol by the bulk (33 liters etc.)
So, from this experiment, we see that bioethanol burns twice as fast as the methyl hydrate. However, is not the more important experiment to find out if the bioethanol will bring a certain amount of water to boil? Perhaps the bioethanol burns twice as fast but does it do the job in half the time? Some here has said that the methyl hydrate is the fuel to be taking on a hike or a camp because it burns longer but again, does it boil water just as fast how much methyl hydrate does it take to boil 1 L of water and how much bioethanol does it take to boil 1 L of water. This is the first video I’ve watched on this channel so I do not know whether this experiment has already been done or not. If not, I look forward to seeing this experiment done on this channel.
In other countries it isn't colored and the denaturated ethanol burn very clean as well. Can't say anything for temperatures though. Always used the denaturated ethanol "household ethanol" is it called. Much cheaper than bioethanol.
Not correct. White spirit and paraffin are not alcohol based at all. They are petroleum distillates and you most certainly can not burn them in these stoves. They will burn very dirty with a yellow sooty flame that will stink and ruin your cooking pots. These stoves are designed to burn alcohol based fuels only.
And the other issue (at least here in the UK) is that meths is widely available (I get mine from my local supermarket) whereas I haven’t been able to easily find any bio fuel in local shops and seems to be more of an on-line purchase (which whilst an option doesn’t help if you run out whilst camping somewhere but are within distance of shops)
Power cuts. That’s the reason I bought one. Not only that, I worked out I boil my kettle for tea/coffee 84 times in a month. I saved on electricity as my Meth fuel is only €4.00 for 500mils.
Fool proof, bomb proof, will last not one but many lifetimes, no working parts to go wrong, multiple methods of cooking all down to the inventiveness of the user. No noise. What’s not to like. Might be a bit slow but who’s in a rush.
I've watched this, and I'm a bit puzzled. Bio Ethanol is ethanol, and methylated spirits is ethanol with a small amount of denaturing agent to make it unpleasant to drink. Essentially, they are exactly the same. Knowing this, surely the difference in performance (smaller flame, longer burn time) should be attributed to the addition of 10% water to the methylated spirits?
@@wildernesslifecraft8180 Fair enough. Also, whilst some sources do say that methylated spirits is ethanol with taste/smell additives, after a bit of Googling it seems that the majority of sources say that there is a 10% addition of methanol, which does make sense given the 'methylated spirits' name. Would be interesting to see a comparison with propanol.
Burn time unimportant, time to boil a kettle is the important one! Meths might last longer but if the bio heats faster?? Sorry. your test proves nothing!
I know some people will say im picking nits but those look like Trangia lookalikes not the real thing. They have different bloom holes than the real Trangia. Trangia and knock-offs have different burn times also.
"Bio" is just the source. Ethanol is ethanol. Unless they've added something more energy dense for the 10% that's not ethanol, methylated spirits will not produce more heat. It will be just the same joules over the longer burn time. Fewer joules over longer time if it's added water and not a volatile. So you should think about what you're cooking. If you're just boiling water, use the straight alcohol and use the methylated spirits for simmering or frying. Best to carry in straight alcohol and water it down a bit as needed. Energy density per gram carried and volume taken up is the most sensible choice.
Are the stoves the hijacked deigns made in China? They really are tops in unscrupulous design theft. You're right, those dodgy windshields are about as useful as chocolate fireguards. The Bio, in my opinion, is too fierce. I think I'll stick to Meths. Far too much flame to lick around the pot and get wasted with the Bio. I rather like the calmer flame and the odour from the Meths as it takes me back to boiling a brew on the Empire Stove in the beach hut 60y+yrs ago when I was a kid. Thanks for the video - it was good to see the comparison. By the way, I would say that the more stable flame of the Meths makes it quite possible - with care and in the proper stove set-up - to cook in the porch. I'd never do that with Bio.
I reckon you could mix the two. I remember a helicopter made an emergency landing for fuel at a petrol station. The pilot mixed half petrol and diesel and flew off. I have been using the old primus with diesel. It runs slightly cooler than parrafin but is much cheaper
Very interesting test. I always wondered what the point of the holes are on these? The section with the holes is separate from where the fuel is. Can anybody explain to this novice? Thanks!
The body of the burner is double walled, and the fuel seeps under the bottom of the fuel 'well' into the void between the walls. Within this void is a gauze or wick which soaks up some of the fuel. As the fuel in the well burns it heats up the inner wall of the well, heating the fuel (in the wick in the void) until the point of combustion. The hot vapours escaping from the small holes at the top of the void chamber are then ignited by the central flame from the well. This is often referred to as 'blooming'. The flames from the multiple small holes have less access to oxygen so tend to burn more efficiently with a hot blue flame rather than the yellow/orange flame from the well. Once bloomed, the central yellow/orange flame should subside, and the blue outer ring of jets increase, at which point the Trangia burner is at peak efficiency and ready to cook. The civilian Trangia burner was purpose built to benefit from the robust wind protection offered by a Trangia 25 or 27 cook system and will suffer somewhat if left exposed as in this video, but it does show that the burner will work unshielded. Whether without some form of wind protection it would boil enough water for two cups of tea is debatable, but experience tells me probably not. But then again, second hand Trangia 25 and 27 kits are often quite affordable on auction sites, and are almost bomb proof. YMMV but get out there and enjoy the outdoors!
@@Kargol48 You have illustrated the answer perfectly and I now have a clear picture in my mind as to how the how thing works. Thanks for that. I think the gap in my knowledge was the seeping of the fluid between the two sections. Cheers and thanks again.
@@stukafaust More than welcome! The bottom of the burner is embossed with the Trangia logo, these 'dips' in the floor of the well enable the fuel to migrate to the void between the double walls. Happy to have helped, ATB
@@Kargol48 I actually now have a cheap one made by a German firm called Mill-Tec. I'm only really experimenting with these things but I now understand how they work and what they are capable of. It all began when I found a 1980's Polish Army mess kit in my basement and I wanted to try using it outside.
Both fuels will absorb water from the atmosphere and may already have . Isopropyl alcohol also works well (37%and 91% ) but produce alot more soot on the pans and a much more yellow flame . 151 rum works too .
You really needed to test the fuels under working conditions = boiling same quantity of water in the same pot on the same stand with the same burner and a WINDSHIELD. I also have a fire felt pad to stop the ground from sucking the heat out of the burner. All you were doing was burning fuel with no idea of the heat output of either.
You should probably test how long it takes to boil 380ml of water (that's about the amount needed for a hiking meal). The bioethanol looked like it was burning faster, and hotter. I've also heard that adding water to bioethanol might help it burn longer, so you might want to try that :)
Yeah its BTU not time .
Some very good views of your back and arms!
Adding water also reduces soot for those who want to keep everything looking pretty and new....🙄
You're supposed to add 10-15% water to meths as well according to trangia themselves, it says on the yellow bag instructions
Actually very informative. If you want to just boil water as fast as possible, then go for bio-ethanol. If you want to actually cook and have control over the heat and cook time, methys. If boiling water 3 mins faster is important to you I suggest you forget camping and get a hotel room with a cheap mini-kettle.
And a soft bed!!
And if its closer to a big city say Manchester the selection of escorts is a bit more varied! So one can share that bed and thus increase the efficiency of at least something! Just sayin :-)
Could also play tents under the duvet....
I often say to my jetboil friends - I wasn't aware bushwalking had become an olympic event
If you are hiking, the point would be to carry less fuel for longer use.
Hard to believe you recorded alcohol stoves. And I watched.
I've done boil tests and I found them to be pretty similar. Bio ethanol much cleaner, so I use that.
I found the ethanol to be slightly quicker.
I'm going to do some more testing on boil tomes.
Hello from the UK lovey video in nature ❤❤❤❤
Due to the recent cold weather I tried using one of those small candles under the trangia to warm it up. I have a trangia 27 so have the space underneath. It gets the meths warm very quickly and it blooms almost immediately.
That's a good idea.
I'll be producing a video soon on cold weather tips for the alcohol stoves.
I had good results with the Bio Fuel. It burns hotter than Heet. I do alot of dry baking. So for me Heet works better. Its Cheaper also.
another Trangia user, Iv got my original stove from early 80s, so its good to go wind tests but think it would be more useful to time boiling water, and same setup with no wind, Iv tried Bio fuel and must admit I’ve gone back to Meths it works better all round, bio is quicker I find but uses more fuel.
I found that too.
Another Trangia fan here too. I have 3. A 27 series cookset (my go to), a 28 mini (fun and cute but hopeless in wind) and a triangle (very compact and handy but not much better than the 28 mini in wind). The 27 series is my favourite bit of kit and goes with us on every hike, day trip in the car (just Incase) and trip to the beach for a brew/hot chocolate. I find the addition of 10% water to meths keeps it a bit more civilised and under control. Was considering going down the bio ethanol route but think I'll stick to meths now.
Thanks for the video. It's always interesting to see how different fuels fare.
Your comparison didnt show which is actually better. Just because it burns longer does not mean it burns better. If the bio burns hotter and boils faster and meth burns cooler so takes longer
then about same amount of fuel required. Meth then could be better for simmering. To simmer use chaffing fuel which is also safer.
Totally in agreement. Ethanol does burn hotter. How much hotter would that translate in boiling water and the likes... For simmering, I'd say for simmering the ethanol you'd need the simmer ring to control the amount of flame. Not so much needed for meths (with a spot of water to stop soot).
@@ipedros7 In other words we need to know how much calorific heat energy the fuel kicks out per volume e.g. ml, liter
That would depend on your usage.
I not only boil water but cook for two people on the stove so a longer burn time is relevant to me and others in the same position.
@@ipedros7 you can also simmer effectively by lowering the distance between the pot and the flame, I regularly do this.
Does the comparison match in cooking tests in tastings/flavors?
I am interested to see what effect bioethanol has on the pans. Does it blacken them? Another video perhaps?
It did blacken my titanium cup slightly.
Meths will blacken anything and stinks... Bio is odourless and only slightly blackens...But you can add a little water to the meths to lessen the blackening. 👍
@@randywatson8347 Then it must contain impurities which gives of carbon
@@HifiCentret
yeah, I don't know why, since ethanol is bad stuff that nobody dares to drink.
@@randywatson8347😂
Quality little stoves. Thanks for sharing 👍
They are great. Thanks for watching.
A soot and smell test would also be helpful.
Interesting video. I haven't tried bio ethanol in any of my Trangia stoves and based on your test, don't think I'll bother. I too water my meths down with 10% water and find it calms the burn down a bit. I find neat meths to be a bit wild. This is also supposed to reduce sooting on cooking pots although I'm not so sure it makes much difference. Incidentally, I have tried diluting meths with 20% water and found it takes way too long to bloom and in cold weather, struggles to fully bloom at all. 10% seems to be the optimum I think. Keep up the videos and thanks for sharing.
Yes I agree the 10% is the sweet spot. The Bio-ethanol us definitely a lot harsher.
Thank you.
Yes
A Soot Test would be good
Great video mate but I bought the bioethanol and there was a lot less soot. Keep up the great work!!!
Is it possible to use pure isopropyl alcohol too? It has similar properties, and it is highly flammable like pure ethyl alcohol.
Yes I would think so bit it's purer form commands a higher price.
@@wildernesslifecraft8180 Pure isopropyl alcohol has similar price to bioethanol or high quality denatured ethyl alcohol (rectified and dehydrated with 99 percent). Methylated spirit is just a raw spirit (usually 92 percent) with additional chemicals to make it unable to drink (like denatonium benzoate, most bitter substance know to mankind making a gag reflex). But unlike bioethanol, methylated spirit stinks like nail polish with a hint of chocolate (it is smell of raw distilled spirit). I know it from experience, because I was able to buy cheap high quality pure denatured alcohol (which does not stink) and pure isopropyl alcohol (for about 2,5 US dollars per liter). I use them not as fuel, but solvents and cleaning agents and their properties are very similar.
Wonder what kind of denaturating agent is used in different countries. Because I don't find a lot of difference. But here the ordinary denaturated ethanol isn't colored either. Both burns very clean but the ordinary denaturated stuff is much cheaper. One liter in the grochery store is still cheaper per liter than buying bioethanol by the bulk (33 liters etc.)
So, from this experiment, we see that bioethanol burns twice as fast as the methyl hydrate. However, is not the more important experiment to find out if the bioethanol will bring a certain amount of water to boil? Perhaps the bioethanol burns twice as fast but does it do the job in half the time? Some here has said that the methyl hydrate is the fuel to be taking on a hike or a camp because it burns longer but again, does it boil water just as fast how much methyl hydrate does it take to boil 1 L of water and how much bioethanol does it take to boil 1 L of water.
This is the first video I’ve watched on this channel so I do not know whether this experiment has already been done or not. If not, I look forward to seeing this experiment done on this channel.
Bio ethanol burns more fiercely and quickly but is much cleaner.
In other countries it isn't colored and the denaturated ethanol burn very clean as well. Can't say anything for temperatures though. Always used the denaturated ethanol "household ethanol" is it called. Much cheaper than bioethanol.
I dont know about mixing.
But you can use methelated spirit, white spirit, parafin, bio ethenol in these stoves as they are alchol based fuels.
Not correct. White spirit and paraffin are not alcohol based at all. They are petroleum distillates and you most certainly can not burn them in these stoves. They will burn very dirty with a yellow sooty flame that will stink and ruin your cooking pots. These stoves are designed to burn alcohol based fuels only.
No, meths and bioethanol are both ethyl alcohol. The others are not alcohols.
Thank you sir, I wonder if you'd like to make a video comparing how much fuel is needed and how long it would take to boil 300ml of water.
I can do that. I've put it on the to do list.
@@wildernesslifecraft8180 I use Heet in the yellow bottle.
I used to add a tiny drop of water to methylated spirits while doing my silver D.O.E Award. It made it so you could see the flame..
What’s the cost of bio ethanol compared to methylated spirits, and which one boils water the quickest ?
Bio ethanol is slightly cheaper if bought in bulk but for a single bottle meths is cheaper.
And the other issue (at least here in the UK) is that meths is widely available (I get mine from my local supermarket) whereas I haven’t been able to easily find any bio fuel in local shops and seems to be more of an on-line purchase (which whilst an option doesn’t help if you run out whilst camping somewhere but are within distance of shops)
@@robertfreeman6082 places like b&q, Wickes etc sell it, think I've even seen it in Tesco or Sainsbury's but in much smaller bottles
adding 10percent of water to bioethanol would even things up?
Can you test boil times between the two fuels?
I can. I'll do it in another video.
Thank you for the video. Would you please do a follow-up video on why anyone would want to use an alcohol stove?
Some people are allergic to propane. It's alcohol or wood!
I am buying a Trangia because a lot of guys on TH-cam use them.
Power cuts. That’s the reason I bought one.
Not only that, I worked out I boil my kettle for tea/coffee 84 times in a month.
I saved on electricity as my Meth fuel is only €4.00 for 500mils.
Fool proof, bomb proof, will last not one but many lifetimes, no working parts to go wrong, multiple methods of cooking all down to the inventiveness of the user. No noise. What’s not to like. Might be a bit slow but who’s in a rush.
Bioethanol - hot, faster cooking, quickly gone.
Meths - cooler burn, slower cooking, lasts longer but the 2 balance out really.
I've watched this, and I'm a bit puzzled. Bio Ethanol is ethanol, and methylated spirits is ethanol with a small amount of denaturing agent to make it unpleasant to drink. Essentially, they are exactly the same. Knowing this, surely the difference in performance (smaller flame, longer burn time) should be attributed to the addition of 10% water to the methylated spirits?
Even without the water, the colourings and additives in meths results in a longer burn time.
@@wildernesslifecraft8180 Fair enough. Also, whilst some sources do say that methylated spirits is ethanol with taste/smell additives, after a bit of Googling it seems that the majority of sources say that there is a 10% addition of methanol, which does make sense given the 'methylated spirits' name. Would be interesting to see a comparison with propanol.
Burn time unimportant, time to boil a kettle is the important one! Meths might last longer but if the bio heats faster?? Sorry. your test proves nothing!
Here in the US we have Denatured Alcohol it's your (Mentholated Spirits)
I know some people will say im picking nits but those look like Trangia lookalikes not the real thing. They have different bloom holes than the real Trangia. Trangia and knock-offs have different burn times also.
That was as exciting as watching paint dry
Denatured alcohol is all I burn. Works great. Stores forever.
I think I prefer it too.
Aren't you supposed to add 10% water to the bio fuel too?
No. Just the meths. The additives in the meths cause sooting, adding water reduces this and sightly increases burning time.
"Bio" is just the source. Ethanol is ethanol. Unless they've added something more energy dense for the 10% that's not ethanol, methylated spirits will not produce more heat. It will be just the same joules over the longer burn time. Fewer joules over longer time if it's added water and not a volatile.
So you should think about what you're cooking. If you're just boiling water, use the straight alcohol and use the methylated spirits for simmering or frying.
Best to carry in straight alcohol and water it down a bit as needed.
Energy density per gram carried and volume taken up is the most sensible choice.
Just to settle the argument definitively they both produce the same amount of energy for a given volume. 21.1 MJ/L
How long do you need to wait before you can refill the burner for a second burn?
Just wait till the stove cools
Thats why i carry second burner
Are the stoves the hijacked deigns made in China? They really are tops in unscrupulous design theft. You're right, those dodgy windshields are about as useful as chocolate fireguards.
The Bio, in my opinion, is too fierce.
I think I'll stick to Meths. Far too much flame to lick around the pot and get wasted with the Bio. I rather like the calmer flame and the odour from the Meths as it takes me back to boiling a brew on the Empire Stove in the beach hut 60y+yrs ago when I was a kid.
Thanks for the video - it was good to see the comparison.
By the way, I would say that the more stable flame of the Meths makes it quite possible - with care and in the proper stove set-up - to cook in the porch. I'd never do that with Bio.
I agree the bio ethanol is too harsh a heat for cooking.
I reckon you could mix the two.
I remember a helicopter made an emergency landing for fuel at a petrol station. The pilot mixed half petrol and diesel and flew off.
I have been using the old primus with diesel.
It runs slightly cooler than parrafin but is much cheaper
Why some people think it’s a good idea to add water to your alcohol is totally beyond me!!
It's less about burn time and more about btu surely?
Very interesting test. I always wondered what the point of the holes are on these? The section with the holes is separate from where the fuel is. Can anybody explain to this novice? Thanks!
The body of the burner is double walled, and the fuel seeps under the bottom of the fuel 'well' into the void between the walls. Within this void is a gauze or wick which soaks up some of the fuel. As the fuel in the well burns it heats up the inner wall of the well, heating the fuel (in the wick in the void) until the point of combustion. The hot vapours escaping from the small holes at the top of the void chamber are then ignited by the central flame from the well. This is often referred to as 'blooming'. The flames from the multiple small holes have less access to oxygen so tend to burn more efficiently with a hot blue flame rather than the yellow/orange flame from the well. Once bloomed, the central yellow/orange flame should subside, and the blue outer ring of jets increase, at which point the Trangia burner is at peak efficiency and ready to cook. The civilian Trangia burner was purpose built to benefit from the robust wind protection offered by a Trangia 25 or 27 cook system and will suffer somewhat if left exposed as in this video, but it does show that the burner will work unshielded. Whether without some form of wind protection it would boil enough water for two cups of tea is debatable, but experience tells me probably not. But then again, second hand Trangia 25 and 27 kits are often quite affordable on auction sites, and are almost bomb proof. YMMV but get out there and enjoy the outdoors!
@@Kargol48 You have illustrated the answer perfectly and I now have a clear picture in my mind as to how the how thing works. Thanks for that. I think the gap in my knowledge was the seeping of the fluid between the two sections. Cheers and thanks again.
@@stukafaust More than welcome! The bottom of the burner is embossed with the Trangia logo, these 'dips' in the floor of the well enable the fuel to migrate to the void between the double walls. Happy to have helped, ATB
@@Kargol48 I actually now have a cheap one made by a German firm called Mill-Tec. I'm only really experimenting with these things but I now understand how they work and what they are capable of. It all began when I found a 1980's Polish Army mess kit in my basement and I wanted to try using it outside.
@@Kargol48 that was a great explanation!
Price of meths is double?!
Both fuels will absorb water from the atmosphere and may already have . Isopropyl alcohol also works well (37%and 91% ) but produce alot more soot on the pans and a much more yellow flame . 151 rum works too .
Haha.30jears ago bike trip in denmark. No way to find Spiritus. They call it rødsprit.
You really needed to test the fuels under working conditions = boiling same quantity of water in the same pot on the same stand with the same burner and a WINDSHIELD.
I also have a fire felt pad to stop the ground from sucking the heat out of the burner.
All you were doing was burning fuel with no idea of the heat output of either.
They are much the same results in use.
The bio ethanol burns a little hotter.
This was a test of how long a full stove lasts between the two fuels.
Your arm is alwzyss blocking the main show, the alcohol mini stove
So... watered down fuel burns slower, I never would have suspected that.
Would be better if you did it from the other side so we can see you do with you getting in the way. Der.
Not Trangia stoves……title is misleading……
The only difference is no T stamped on the bottom. Performance is the same.
Those aren't Trangia Stoves.
Why would you even do this test without some kind of wind guard??? Makes zero sense..
please don't call it a Trangia test when not using Trangias
There's no difference between the stoves. They are identical.
Wäre Mal intersant was mehr rust
🥱😴
Terminology gets all twisted. This is what I use and like best.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel