I swear Kobe's the Bruce Wayne/ Batman of basketball. He learned as much as he could from the greats of the past, his peers, and even the younger guys towards the end of his career. Pure greatness!
@TJMiton and Kareem is Kryptonite because he owns MJ in every level of Basketball. MJ gets far to much love for an NBA career when dudes like Kareem.dominated every fkn level of it
hes BEEN getting disrespected even during his career. hows kobe get only 1 mvp??? i remember talking to someone in 2008 and they were like nope lebron way better than kobe. lebron nut riding is reallly real
Not really. Its Krazy how after he passed he was raised! I don't worship the dead. My God is of the living. Kobe has always been overrated b/c of his alignment and copying MJ. He's nowhere near MJ nd not better than Lebron
@@Atlas365247Even if Kobe did copy Michael, he still had to execute things himself. Mike wasn't gonna forge Kobe's legacy for him. Kobe still did it on his own. lbj has no business being mentioned with them.
If I'm losing to Jordan, and I'm a coach or whatever...even though it is likely that I would still lose no matter what...if there is ONE guy that I thought might possibly be able to pull it off, it would be Kobe. It would not be Lebron, or Kareem, or Timmy, or Steph, or KD.
I’ve watched Kareem play. He had a automatic shot. He had a um would say a bag of tricks. I do think Kareem is better than Timmy however Timmy also came up big in fourth quarters during the finals.
Facts! Kobe’s the closest thing. Nobody else is even close to breaching into that stratosphere, let alone be in the conversation. The real debate should be between Mike and Kobe. No other cases.
That awkward moment Mark Jackson was about to punch Reggie for giving an excuse...then Reggie remembers he's not commentating on a Laker's game but in a podcast with an old friend haha
The 2 most disrespected, underappreciated and completely ignored player's in the "GOAT DEBATE" in NBA history are Kobe Bryant and Hakeem Olajuwan hand's down!!! Also even though Charles Barkley won't ever be in that particular discussion might possibly be the most underrated NBA player in history and possibly in all team sports!!! Barkley was an animal but he unfortunately for him he had to deal with Jordan and the Bulls!!! What truly pisses me off is the fact that LeChoke Job James gets credit and praise that Dewayne Wade did in those LeChoke's Miami Heat year's!! D. Wade was better than James every single year they were on the same team
@@TheRealMindCrime the reason I didn't mention Duncan is because at least some of us will bring him up but NOBODY mentions Barkley or Olajuwan and that's my point, but yes Duncan absolutely deserves his recognition as well
@thsu8 you're crazy cuz Kobe and Bill Russell get mentioned all of the time!! And I'm not talking about the GOAT debate!! I'm talking about how great both players are but aren't ever talked about and David Robinson should be talked about more too!! I'm sick of hearing about Bill Russell when he only had to deal with 9 or 10 opposing teams and only a couple of legitimate big men to do battle with!! Much much different
You are wrong, there are lot of people who are real basketball fans and who are sick and tired of fake narratives and lies fabricated to push LeDiddy into imaginary nonexistant debate. Kob was only man who deserves to be compared to MJ player wise and what he accomplished, despite being pushed and diminished awards wise because Colorado incident
For real. This fake narrative has gotten out of hand when Kobe passed away. I'm 101% sure that this bs will not exist if Kobe'w still alive. He will not let the media get away with this stupidity.
The media thinks for the simple minded sheep who try to ignore Kobe.....thats the reason when the 2008 team arrived in China they overwhelmingly chose Kobe..... A country with a higher IQ and no ESPN to manipulate.
Not only Europe and Asia but the rest of the world knows Kobe is way better than Labron. It’s not even a discussion to be honest, even Tim Duncan is better than Labron.
But but but... China knew not only the leader, but all the support cast, and supported the support cast MORE than the leader. Shows how much you know about Chinese. Not that I know anything, and I admit nothing. They really don't care about the goat, but who else they cheer for and know way more than you about the rest of the team.
I have Magic after MJ,I do have Kobe ahead of Bron tho,but I'm not gonna Hate on his longevity just bcuz I don't like his antics..He spends $1M on his body to be able to still be relevant at 40..2days SOFTASS NBA is a contributing factor as well...
Lebron used Klutch to inject himself into the goat debate and remove Kobe completely. It disgusts me because this narcissist says "I don't cheat the game" but he'll disrespect one of the greatest players ever who isn't here to say anything. What a pos Lebron is. And Lebron isn't top 10. Guys like Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Russell all have a winning record in the finals. Lebron cannot be higher than them with a losing finals record.
@@roboninja3194 Kobe is better because he has a winning record in the Finals is hilariously stupid . You should have added Robert Horry to your garbage list too. Bron fans shouldn’t even chime anymore since the arguments are so ridiculous. Kobe wasn’t even the best player on the team three out of five of his championships. Let me stop speaking facts they get in the way of falsehoods, back to the previous scheduled program. Lakers fans are crazy you are either a Kobe or a Bron fan but you aren’t allowed to be both
Lebron is in there because he took 3 different teams in a 10 year span to the Championship series. No other player could do what Lebron has done. Come straight out of HS and Dominate from day 1. Kobe didn't start, MJ couldn't have went straight to the pro's coming out of HS
@@maalbri1 Kobe wasnt the best player because you dont get that Shaq wasnt a random avg superstars, Shaq was in his prime but Kobe was still developing. Put Lebron into that Lakers team and he wouldnt have been the best player there either YET vs a prime Shaq. Lebron didnt have a top 10 of all time player like Shaq to play with. And btw in 2011 even Wade was better than Lebron in the playoff and where do you place Wade in the all time list? But btw you dont really get that what an advantage Shaq had. He was 216cm, 147kg dude that alone is a real shit. He didnt really need to much skills to produce good numbers. But Kobe had to work really hard for the same.
@@andrewmatzo8167LeBron wasn't dominating since day 1 lol I remember the media massively hyping him up as the next MJ while he was still playing in high school so it was a huge disappointment to watch his first game and see him miss so many shots, especially in clutch time, and I vividly remember thinking "LeBron has a lot to work on to be compared to MJ again"
A lot of people already believed that MJ was the greatest ever even before he had won his first championship. So for those people, including myself, the 6 rings were only just icing on the cake. The 6 and 0 is just a flex.
@@VMCabrones LeBron: could not win until he joined multiple superteams, and still failed 60% of the time in the Finals. Plays in the softest era where there were plenty of rule changes to make scoring easier. Had months off BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS for his bubble asterisk ring, and won another in a lockout season. Takes multiple games off during the season for load management. Hasn't played 82 games more than once in a 20+ year career. Oh, and Mike didn't "take time off to rest his body," he was playing a completely different sport. Stop being a sheep repeating the media's lame ass arguments.
MJ alone up at the top. No one really argued against Kobe when he was compared to Jordan or thought to be better, oh you didn’t agree but you understood it. Lebron? no, that one you could not let slide
@@J23LA24 Bullshit ... that's the utterly superficial analysis today ... Who'd you beat to get there? What are you measuring against? MJ Never Beat Bird 0-6 ... Why is That, Exactly?
@@bryanfox6726 how is that superficial? Looking only at stats is what is superficial. Having both means you were not only able to make yourself great, but elevated your teammates. That's the mark of greatness. Jordan didn't beat Bird because he was drafted to a horrible team and had to build it up over 7 years. In that time, Bird had started having back issues. The timing wasn't right.
The bit where Reggie talked about Kobe asking questions about how to do such and such in order to improve his game is the reason why i believe Kobe (and MJ) is miles ahead and better than Lebron. Its that willingness to learn the game. Lebron has been active for 20+ years and every aspect of his game hadn't changed at all....the charging down the lane with the head down...the inability to create a shot or make a shot etc etc. I dont wanna go on because its already been talked about number of times. Sorry for the wordy post. Lol
Yeah, Lebron was born knowing everything about basketball. We all know this because he’s the queen, born into it. Some say he is Dr Naismith reincarnated just to show us unworthy peasants how the game SHOULD be played. He always makes the right play.
Keep preachin. This can never be said enough. Once he retires, all the truth will start to come out. he will certainly not be being talked about 30 years later.
1. Michael Jordan 2. Kobe Bryant 3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 4. Magic Johnson 5. Larry Bird 6. Tim Duncan 7. Lebron James 8. Shaquille O'Neal 9. Jerry West 10. Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain
@@TheRealMindCrimewait u taking Kobe who avg 22 points on 38 percent shooting and 67 percent shooting from the Free throw line in game 7s over LeBron who avg 35 on 48 percent shooting and 77 percent from the Free throw line ok sounds smart to me
I’m 31 years old and I’ve never seen MJ play, watched LeBrons whole career. Watch the highlights. MJ is the better player. You don’t need to be apart of an era to see that.
Lebron isn’t even on my list. At all. There are too many enormous negatives with Lebron and it overwhelms everything else. I won’t list them because everybody that is honest knows that list and the list is long. Of course championships matter! That’s the whole point. You play to win.
Man yall sound so crazy even if you don’t like a player for whatever reason you can’t denied what you see with your plain eyes the talent. I didn’t rock with Kobe for years but I couldn’t hate on how good of a player he was.
I pick LeBron after the Airness. Why??? Because of his #1 all time scoring, his championships, his great 3 point percentage, his assists. No one believed the Captain could ever be overtaken for most points scored... and his Legacy plows on and on, plowing the snow and disbelievers aside...
And here we go 20+ years later and Lebron still has pretty much the same exact game, boring, nothing new, and doesn’t respect the elders and those before him. Didn’t he take lessons from Hakeem? And he doesn’t show any of that on the court at all. Didn’t utilize it. The only reason I bring up Lefraud is because he’s for some reason considered the goat lol
Wait. He overtook the Captain in overall scoring, and his all time assists is 4th after my favorite player Jason Kidd??? You just hating. You can't comprehend the lifelong accomplishments of a true goat. Now wait a minute, I'm not even a LeBron fanboi. I could care less. I only like Jason Kidd. But #1 scorer, #4 assists, about to overtake mah fave Kidd. You just hating. LeBron did more for Basketball than anyone else. Just acknowledge that. OK only not more than Magic and Bird combined. I acknowledge their epic battles that led to the emergence of the NBA today! But if Jordan was drafted to a terrible organization, who's to say he wouldn't have been a Tracy McGrady??? The Bulls were in a weak Eastern conference and were super lucky to pick up Scotty Pippen. The "others" are super important and underrated.
Michael Jordan transcends this list as the GOAT of GOATS Greatest Basketball Player of AllTime 1. Kobe Bryant (vastly underrated by the statisticians-the player the league wants everyone to forget) 2. Kareem (Greatest ever if we include HS, college and pros) 3. Bird & Magic confusing I know … but Magic’s career was so amazing and he is universally recognized as the greatest PG that he needs to be here but Bird was better than Magic for the first nine years of their careers 4. Bill Russel 11 Championships Greatest Winner 5. Tim Duncan Greatest PF 6. Wilt Chamberlain Mr. Recordbook and Most Dominant 7. Hakeem Olajuwon probably the best ‘two way’ player after Jordan 8. Jerry West Da Logo 9. Julius Erving Dr. J would be thought of differently if we combined ABA and NBA accomplishments 10. Lebron James as overrated (most people put him 1 or 2) as Kobe is underrated 11. Moses Malone 12. Shaq One of the greatest underachievers of All Time. Should be top 5 13. Oscar Robinson 14. David Robinson 15. Elgin Baylor Best Players in the league right now that could crack the top ten… Giannis Antetokounmpo Stephen Curry No body else’s body of work is close enough to add after these two
@ You’re right. This list I made 5 years ago for a debate I had and I just copied and pasted. The Joker is already a top 15 player with his achievements. Dude has basically played by himself his entire career.
Lebron won without Wade, Kobe without Shaq, Shaq, without Kobe, Wade without Bron, but how come MJ never won anything without Pippen? And Pippen went deeper in the playoffs without Jordan than Mike did without Scottie. He's Demar Derozan if he played in Lebron's era, he beat shitty ass teams in the finals, teams that won't make the second round of playoffs in the western conference today. Check the net efficiency of Lebron and Mike's opponents in the finals, incomparable! MJ made the playoffs in 85, 86, 87 with 30 wins, 38 wins and 40 wins. While Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 with 42 wins, MJ played in the weakest and cocaine era of basketball. Jordan and the Bulls had trouble with Reggie and the Pacers who took them to 7 games, imagine MJ and the Bulls playing against KD and the Warriors? Sweep with no close games. Mike, Scottie and Dennis can't handle an up and coming Grant Hill, while Iverson made Jordan looked like a fool. Jordan would get vertigo trying to guard Kyrie, Steph or even Trae. lol, Lebron would get jailed if he played in Mike's era for what he would do to players back then. Bron beat dynasties Spurs and Warriors, something Jordan know nothing about. Bird swept MJ's ass 2x in the first round and was 6-0 against him in the playoffs. LBJ even passed MJ in scoring taking 1,262 less shots. Jordanites are mad as hell, now that their idol who they thought could do no wrong is getting exposed for how weak his competitions were. We done with the no left no skill 80s and 90s. Lebron at 39, won Olympic Tournament MVP while MJ at 39, too busy destroying the Wizards franchise 🤦🤦😂😂
Because as we know who plays for championships is either predetermined or highly highly influenced through officiating. But I know people dont care and still will place a player with more championships over one who's more skilled and talented if he has less titles.
This dude is a lebron hater. Listening to him more and more I can't take anything he say genuine. That discredit this whole video for me. You could have made the video short and just said (I don't like LeBron because ppl think he's better than kobe and Jordan)
@@noonieveliai9921 if you haven't noticed people tend not to change their minds. Especially when it comes to who they watched growing up. It's almost like they look up to that player as if he was their hero or dad idk. But in their eyes nothing anyone can say or show them will change that. It would be nice if people could remove their feeling and just view things with zero bias.
Kobe - Beat the most 50+ win teams in NBA history - Second most points scored in a single game NBA history, First most in the modern era. - Oldest player to score 60+ - 3rd most consecutive 50+ point games in NBA history - 2nd most All-NBA First Team honors won (tied with Malone) - Most All-NBA Team honors won by a guard - Most All-NBA First Team honors won by a guard - 2nd most All-Defensive Team honors won - Most All-Defensive First Team honors won (tied with Mike, GP, KG) - Only player in NBA history to score at least 600 points in the postseason for three consecutive years - Oldest player to record back-to-back games of 40+ points and 10+ assists - Carried Olympic team to a gold medal - 5x NBA Champion on a three-peat - Dragged a squad with no other superstar/top 75 to repeat - 2x Finals MVP - 1x MVP - 2x Scoring Champ - 9x All-Defense First - 3x All-NBA Second - 18x NBA All Star Kobe is also 1 of only 6 players to win back-to-back Finals MVP (2peat). Kobe did this in one of the most competitive conference in history. Lead the 2000's with the most points scored in the decade and the highest scoring average of the decade.
Yeah, Kobe did a lot of stuff. But, I've seen him disappear in big games in ways that could never happen with, say, Jerry West. I also saw Paul Pierce shut him down in a final. You couldn't play him with another superstar without major dominance issues. He blew games by taking crazy last second shots and refusing to pass. He wasn't the most efficient scorer. In his final season, a decrepit Kobe destroyed a young and talented Lakers team by making it all about him and happily shooting them out of games. On the plus side, he did drag an otherwise ordinary Lakers team to two championships. That was something, but he's not a serious GOAT candidate to me.
Listen...if Im picking my first 5 players....I'm going.....MJ, Hakeem, Bird, Magic, Duncan. I've got all bases covered & the IQ on my squad is Supreme Level. No dumb shots, no turnovers, no bad passes.
@@thsu8 Durant is just a poor mans Grant Hill. Grant Hill has more versatility than Durant Lebron is just a slightly better stronger version of Marques Johnson and Paul Pressy (the first true point forwards) but with zero bag in his game Steph Curry is just Reggie Miller on steroids but who cant dunk
If Kobe was alive the GOAT conversation would be between him and Jordan. People would not be comparing Lebron to Mj because Kobe was the closest thing to the GOAT
LeBron wasn't anything like MJ. That's like saying Jokic isn't like MJ. So what? or Stephan Curry isn't like MJ. By the way, Stephan is the TRUE unicorn. He is the ONLY 1 position as the best player on the team to win a championship since the black and white film days. Even Yannis and the Joker play like the 3 on offense. And Stephan won TWO championships as the LEADER, making him the UNICORN GOAT! I'm not a Stephan Curry fan, but when does the Stephan vs Mike conversation begin? This is so stupid. Who cares who was best? Jason Kidd was my fave of all time! I was so all in during the playoffs when he defeated LeBron! But sports is just sports. There is no definitive criteria to who was best. Just appreciate Jason Kidd for uplifting you! And if you weren't a Jason Kidd fan, then screw you!!!!!! Nah, appreciate whoever you liked! Appreciate your fave! even if it was Tracy McGrady
kobe is the goat to 3/4 of the players in the league right now. No matter how much the media tries to ruin kobe's legacy we seen all his history. His career is cemented as a top 10 arguably top 5 player of all time.
Give me Kobe over LeBusto in the playoffs. Kobe actually dominated Duncan in the playoffs and LeBusto was dominated by Duncan in the playoffs. LeBusto stayed in the East because he couldn’t compete in the west and would have struggled to get to the finals. D Wade said it best after Kobe won ring 5, he called LeBusto so they could team up to beat Kobe.
I heard you call LeBron a "pass-first" player as his media campaign keeps pushing. I just can't go for that :) LeBron takes more shot attempts per game than Kobe, has less Assists Per Game than Muggsy Bogues (all-time, 5 ranks below at about #25), and we already know he has the most missed shots. ONE Assist title in 21 years. He is a shoot first player who pretends to be a PG, and often passes when he's choking or doesn't want the blame.
I watch LeBron and you're wrong. He really is a pass first player to his deficit when all his loser Lakers that are exchanged each year are unfamiliar with him... The Lakers GM is the worst ever, even worse than when the minority brothers tried to manage the team. I feel sorry for LeBron. The Lakers is the worst place for him to be. He wasted years there, although he did get a Covid championship. I don't expect the Lakers to win ever again with the AD-LJ lineup.
I've always said that LeBron hacked the conversation with ONLY comparing himself to MJ alone, that way he leapfrogged all the other greats he can't even hold a candle to... 🤦
He leapfrogged the Captain, is #1 in scoring and is #4 in assists, right behind my fave player Jason Kidd... Like he defeated all other greats! Just look at LeBron's accomplishments! I'm no fan of LeBron, but I don't deny he's one of the best of all times in ALL categories! This dude, like Kenny Smith said, is the greatest physical specimen that the NBA has ever seen, and he has produced thoughout his lifetime in the NBA consistently! No other great can even start to say how consistent they were compared to the Ba-a-a-a-a-a goat LeBron! And I don't even care about him. I just acknowledge truth. I'm a Dallas fanboi because Kidd is the head coach! hahaha! How stupid is that! As stupid as every other fan! Go us stupid fans!
Noh! You get a Gold star, and you get a Rainbow, and you get ... Everyone's a winner! We love everyone equally! (at least we show that so we don't fight at Thanksgivings or New Years Eve!!! Yeay for everyone!
The reason ppl don't talk about Kobe in the GOAT debate is because the league wanted to remove him from the discussions to prop up LeBron. Shannon Sharpe tweeted in 2012 that Kobe was the 2nd best player ever and now after being bought by klutch is saying he's like 8th or something.
I agree with Reggie on judging greatness but i would say that its both in my opinion the reason Duncan isn't in the goat conversation is because his playstyle was kinda boring
i agree but that also eliminates all the big men from the list. They're boring to watch. I think you're right though and that's why Russell, WIlt, Kareem, etc don't get enough love
@@TheRealMindCrime The Joker isn't boring! He's the funnest! He's the guy Reggie was saying is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers! How he took down the Clippers when they were down 1-3 in the playoffs! Nicola just picked the Clippers apart! The Joker is the most exciting player ever! His passes and shots are mind blowing! The Joker and even Antentenkounpo will win more championships! Big men are not boring! Tim Duncan was not boring! I was so blown away by Yannis's performance in game 6! He basically decided we win in game 6 or we lose in game 7. He led his team to dominate in game 6. It was incredible to witness! Big men can rule!
How could Duncan, 5 rings 3 final MVP 2 mvp and so on is stretching and not lebron? Oh my god... I agree completely with you about mcgrady... If rings don't matter he is in my top 5 too... It's funny a few months ago I said the same thing to a friend... You play basketball to win rings
I think Duncan is so underrated because of his demeanor. If he was loud, self celebrating/promoting, and flashy people would look at him differently. Same thing with Hakeem
the guy who gets left out the most is Dr.J, he was unstoppable and had the greatest impact on the generation that followed him. If the video footage was there like it is now, just go by the way his peers talked about him, and the footage that did catch him in his prime. During the mid 70's to mid 80's it was Doc and Kareem that were the most feared.
What Reggie is talking here, Kob talked with Shaq in the interview about same thing, he said that 1 on 1 helped him a lot in the series with Pacers later. Great story. Kob was a student of the game, he was fully immersed in the craft. I like your takes brother, very level headed, keep up the great work 👍
To me Lebron is not even top 10 all time on the GOAT list. If you remember back when Kobe was playing Lebron barely wanted to compete against Kobe. Whether it was in an all-star game , an Olympic team practice game , or even in a real game. You could see Kobe wanted all the smoke vs Lebron any chance he had to play against him. Lebron ...not so much. Bron has alot of bravado now against these younger players who only know this eras style of basketball with no defense no hand checking rules and no idea of how tough the league used to be. I see Bron go up for a rebound with only himself literally under the basket. I've seen Bron drive to the basket through a wide open runway...lane...for a layup or dunk. Then Bron screams out and flexes. Lol Bron is utilizing this eras weak version of the game and he knows it.
I do not. Dr J did it on an individual level and won 2 rings in the ABA as well as 1 in the NBA. He earned his spot. I got to watch T mac's whole career though so I like him a lot. Just wish he won more
MJ would have targeted lebron so hard. All it would have taken was for someone to even hint that they thought bron was better than him. If you thought you've seen lebron quit before, that's nothing to how quick he'd have quit when mike put that pressure on him. MJ would have ripped what little heart lbj has and eaten it raw.
I have been saying Kobe should be in the Goat conversation for YEARS! and no one pays attention. MJ is the Goat for me personally, but to put Lebron ahead of Mamba and Kareem is Just absurd.
Kobe WAS in the Goat conversation for many many years. It was only when Lebron entered the conversation that everyone acts like Kobe didn't happen. It's weird
@@TheRealMindCrime it is super weird , Kobe was the reason i continued to watch NBA bball after him i rarely follow it, the NBA has changed drastically and I dont like it, but this is me personally I know kids around their early 20's think differently and that is understandable.
TBH Kobe’s mentality put him into the GOAT debate, he’s not talented as MJ and LBJ (LBJ has the weakest mentality but his physicality put him into the GOAT debate), let’s put Kobe in Jordan’s shoes, no Shaq no Phil and other good role player in his early career, he’s not gonna have that 3 peat, prime Shaq was a cheat code, nobody has answer to him. I think that’s the reason why people not putting Kobe in Goat debate.
Just think about how badly penny fumbled being the first 3 peat with shaq, He had the most dominant teammate and didnt capitalize on the opportunity, if dude would have took the backseat to shaq in orlando he probably could be considered in the top 10, he was robin that want to force his way 1st option, when you play with someone like just get him the ball and get out the way
@@Kakarot8-10-24 I don’t blame Penny cuz Jordan wasn’t retired, same thing with Kobe, if Jordan was 4-5 years old younger, Phil still coaching the bulls, Kobe and Shaq still won’t have a chance.
@@Idlehands-buddy Nobody was stopping shaq, he just needed teammates during his orlando days, and the bulls had nobody that could guard shaq, dennis rodman couldnt hold shaq without fouling
Top 10 NBA players all time: 1 - Michael Jordan 2 - Kareem Abdul Jabbar 3 - Kobe Bryant 4 - Wilt Chamberlain 5 - Larry Bird 6 - Tim Duncan 7 - Bill Russell 8 - Lebron James 9 - Magic Johnson 10 - Hakeem Olajuwon / Shaquille O'neal
Sold list ... except for Lebron ... I don't give two shits 'bout padded stats ... I'll Take Elgin Baylor Over Lebron James All Day Every Day ... Twice Sats & Sundays, etc., etc., etc.,
"My personal goat" is a logical fallacy. Kinda defeats the purpose. The whole matters when you put it into context. Sorry, but your personal favorite doesn't cut it when it comes to the goat debate.
The Mark Jackson show (was supposed to be named the steam room after Charles) is great and normally reactions suck but you bring value to this and I want to acknowledge that
@nbagoats4819 Shaq played in one of the toughest eras defensively and talent wise. Maybe if he accomplished what he did in a more competitive, modern NBA. Shaq dominated in a way we've never seen and still haven't seen before, and this was against freaks of nature.
“LeBron is the greatest to me” Never played professional basketball, but again that’s his opinion. All the while, his HOF dad and Reggie sit across from him are telling him MJ is the GOAT, because they actually PLAYED against him. 90% of LeBron fans are like this
Kobe lead me to realize my own potential i didn't know how to get better in life his work ethic was the secret and i mirror it and motivated myself to work on my entire life as a whole mamba mentality is really something u use for hope
Olajuwon, I believe, preferred the 4 ... and on my GOAT TEAM ... I play him at 4 ... Jerry West @1, Elgin Baylor @2, Bird @3, Hakeem @4, Wilt @5 ... unbeatable, I believe ...
@@bryanfox6726 great lineup. I'd run magic at the 1 2 is MJ all.day 3 prime tmac 4 KG 5 I'd put prime Sabonis. Put that lineup against yours. People say wtf when I put prime sabonis at the 5 but that guy was insane in his prime. 7'3" and could shoot and handle the ball and was big enough to play against wilt or shaq. See how he destroyed David Robinson in 88?
@@MJIZZEL Good team ... but no chance against my team ... styles of play do not mesh ... Magic, MJ, TMac ... can't play without the ball in their hands ... no Chemistry ... and No Chance for Anyone on your team to get stops against my players ... I Love Magic ... Mt. Rushmore begins with Baylor, Magic & Bird ... be No NBA without them ... but Magic has 0 chance of guarding Jerry West, Who's Too Fast and can pull-up so quick with dead-eye accuracy ... nothing Magic could do defensively ... Whereas West, defensively would be a Major Bother for Magic ... and pick his pocket very frequently ... advantage West ... MJ vs Baylor ... scoring's a wash ... Baylor better & more willing passer + an extra 8-9 rebounds / game which translates to more scoring = advantage Baylor ... Tmac vs Bird ... With my front-line of Bird, Hakeem & Wilt = the paint is closed for MJ & TMac ... Contested Jumpers Only. Whereas TMac offers no Stopping of Whatever Bird wants to do ... KG is dominated by Olajwon ... Nothing easy for KG ... Nothing. Advantage Olajuwon ... Sabonis is Highly Under-rated ... but, like everyone else is Dominated Everywhere by Wilt ... Team-wise ... I have no ball-dominant egos, I have willing passers ... better ball movement & Flow ... Result = 4-0 sweep at worst ... 4-1 at best (Gentelman's Sweep) ...
When did all the bigs get passed. Before Jordan it was Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. After Mike they all disappeared. How do you think they are better than a center who anchored teams offensively and defensively.
Magic and Bird started a new way of thinking when it came to drafting. Before it was take the best center available. Magic and Bird changed that, no one else.
This clip is a great example of how great Jordan was. When they played, he and Reggie Miller hated each other yet Reggie has nothing but respect for him and refuses to put ANYONE over MJ. To this day, Mike’s game transcends their sour relationship.
Exactly! Reminds me Mike Tyson. They all hated him when they had to get through him but after the dust settled they all talk about how scary he was. Same with MJ
The goat debate should be restricted to an era. Players like Shaq would average 50 points in the paint today. Jordan had to do it when you're allowed to: 1) elbow players driving down the lane, 2) use your hands to check (i.e. push) your opponent on defense, 3) players in the past actually tries to excel in both defense and offense. James may be one of the best in his era, but let's not pretend he'll be anything more than a decent SG had he played in the 90s.
If I had one game to save my life I’d pick like this - 1. Mike 2. Kobe 3. T-Mac 4. Timmy / Kareem 5. Shaq How SHOULD we approach the goat convo? Who we’d pick for a game or all-time stats? I agree with you, T-Mac is up there!
I never liked Reggie. I respected his game but I hated him. When he provoked Kobe to punch him by trash talking his wife was over the line and now the way he is part of the LeMedia…. I just dont like the man. LOVE Mark Jackson.
Whoa! Reggie lived on the rivalries and edging everyone up and the trash talking! That was the essence of the 80's! Gary Payton, etc... The NBA is built on hatred and demolishing. If it were on just respectful competition, only LeBron might sneak in, and every other star would be expelled. (though LeBron might be expelled by his own team 🤣) Reggie was a great competitor who exploited every rule to his favor like in any competition. Reggie elevated the NBA to higher levels and I acknowledge him for that. I'm not a fan of him, but he did make the NBA better by his competition. He was a great addition to the variety of gameplay. Mark Jackson was a nobody who racked up assists to the great Reggie Miller. Yes, Mark Jackson was a nobody. He was already overweight as an NBA player!
Duncan , we seen him get bad end of bad referrees, and how he handled it.. ther guy has everything his way and still whines. Because Duncan like Kareem and a few others.. younger Kobe ect... werent there to kiss the cameras, were basketball players.. this is "Boring" for media and the money machine. STILL got more done stayed competitive his career, not just the few years he could stack the right talent.
agreed. the boring thing keeps all the great bigs out of the conversation. Duncan, Russell, Wilt, etc. It's not about being flashy it's about being the best on the team and winning rings at the same time
Boston owns Kyrie its that simple lol. I think accomplishments has to be a part of the criteria, its not all that matters but it is important. Nobody ever says when LeBalco surpassed Kobe, I've never heard the fanboys say when they just dismiss, its like all I'm asking is when, it's not hard. For example, IMO MJ became the GOAT after the first three peat just because he was so dominant on both ends of the flor it wasn't just that he won it was he was dominant while winning.
Agreed, but Bill Russell is obviously 3rd behind those two. The leadership, the winning intangibles, the EQ, the intelligence, the understanding of the game, the selflessness....no other big is close.
@@TheRealMindCrime exactly! I think Mark Jackson feels that way cause he's still a bit salty abut not winning a chip....and pippen shutting him down...Shhhh
Then he would have been Dominique Wilkens x10 🤣 Noh! It would have gone to Kobe's head! He would have been the ruin of the NBA! No hate on Kobe. Just realistic psychoanalysis. Sorry to anyone I offended.
Ppl always forget, what’s not in front of them…. Lebrick is number 11-13 on the all time list Having Lebrick in the top ten is disrespectful to over 10 players before him and two still playing today better than Lebron Steph and Durant
Lebron James never participated in any all star events Mike did Larry did Kobe did cause they loved the game and respected the fans Lebron has been spoiled since he was a kid Michael Jordan never said he was the greatest lebron says it all the time and he’s tripping
@@TheRealMindCrime Exactly. That's why Michael is 1 and Kobe is 2. Kobe did take some bad shots although he was the best bad shotmaker in league history.
@@TheRealMindCrimeyeah. But at least at 6'5 - 6'6, he got cleaner looks than Iverson often got. It's one reason I was never an Iverson fan. At 6 ft, he forced way too many shots, drifting, floating, etc.
@@TheRealMindCrime He got that From Jordan ... It's the Main Thing I Fault About His Game -- patterned Too Much after Mike ... Needs More Bird & Magic in His Game (jus' like Mike ...)
It annoys me when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar isn’t even considered to be the goat. The man won three straight high school state championship, he won three straight college championships, he won six NBA titles, at 38 years old he was the oldest MVP ever in the NBA finals. He won 6 season MVPs.The man held the scoring record for 39 years with only one career three-pointer. We need to put more respect on his name! He is the most accomplished NBA player ever. To think that he can rely on one go to move and that was the sky hook and master that shot. What more can I say about the guy? Kareem is my goat pick!
Nice list here is mine. 1. Bill Russell 2. Michael Jordan 3. Wilt Chamberlin 4. Tim Duncun 5. Kobe Bryant 6. Kareem 7.David Robinson 8. Magic Johnson 9. Manu Ginobli 10. Larry Bird
@@fkillah explain how dufus?. Number one is the greatest team player and defender and winner of all time, next to the greatest in my Era with the most heart and most powerful team in the '90s. who is than followed by the greatest center who still has records unbroken nearly 50 year's later. Than the greatest p.f. ever who was nearly 28 seconds away from being 6-0 In the finals although 5-1 is incredible considering how difficult the early 2000s we're defense wise. Than the greatest laker of all time and probably the best scorer I've ever seen who had an 81 point game. Than have David who was unstoppable in his prime HAD a 71 point game won every award his rookie year in Robinson, including the most fearsome competor I've ever seen in Manu who defeated the u.s. for gold in 2004, euro champion and 4 time nba champion. Plus bird magic, bird, Kareem. That's a solid damm list. What could you possibly say about it without including these same player's.. I certainly hope you're not going list whom I think you're going say..cuz I garentee these player's on my list have beaten them at one point..lol.
I did NOT see a “heated debate.” I saw two buddies giving each other sh*t about hypotheticals in a loving manner. This was pure “bro love” all the way around.
Being a Champion and raising your game to the greatest Championship level is the icing on the cake winning a trophy for your city and its franchise is why a player is there it is the ultimate goal the players in the GOAT argument have winning records in the finals
Hakeem Olajuwon is far superior player. Far superior. Skill-wise, Hakeem is top 10 in rim protection, post play, offensive rebounding, big man steals, etc. Lebron James is not top 25, skill-wise, in any discreet basketball discipline. Playmaking? Dribbling? Is he top 25 in outside shooting, rebounding? blocks? Leadership? Is he top 25 in steals? FT shooting? Skill-wise, Lebron is not top 50 in any distinct b-ball discipline. Some of us know something the rest of you have not yet realized: Lebron's career was orchestrated. Lebron James is a manufactured product. The man is a brand. And most of you fell for it. You think he's top-10-great just not "goat-great" Truth is, without league help & media manipulation, the man may or may not be considered top 75. As for how the league and media work in concert to orchestrate a career and create a "player brand" is another, deeper subject. But those who know, _KNOW._
Kareem is the GOAT. a few reasons..... 3 straight high school titles 3 straight college titles 10 NBA Finals (6 - 4) could just stop there, but.... 6 NBA MVPs Was NBA all time leading scorer (didn't come out of HS) Played 20 seasons (2 teams) 18 playoff appearances and the Sky Hook..... never duplicated. GOAT = Most accomplished 🏀 player
There's a difference between being a historian of the game and a student of the game. Kobe was definitely a student of the game. The odd thing about these GOAT discussions, is here we have Kobe just picking the brains of every great player he can to improve his own game. Who's brain did MJ pick? I've never heard a single story of MJ asking anyone about anything concerning basketball. How did he envision where he was going with his talent and physical abilities? He got cut from his high school team, okay there's definite motivation. But, the knowledge has to come from somewhere. Was Dean Smith really that great a coach? If so, then Bobby Knight's comments about Jordan being the greatest high school player he'd ever seen make no sense to me. Now, I've never heard any stories of LBJ picking anyone's brains either. But, MJ's game evolved over time. I don't think LeBron's has. It still looks the same to me after 20 years.
That is a good question. We've heard,about Kobe picking guys brains but never Jordan. So where did he learn all his play from? He got some things like dunks from Dr J but his foot work and handles who did he learn from
@@leonardjackson6210 Exactly! We know that Phil either taught or at least convinced him to work with and eventually trust his teammates. But that other stuff? I just don't know. 🤔
@@TheRealMindCrime he went and supposedly studied and trained with Hakeem in either 2012 or 2013 on his footwork and post moves. He actually played a little more in the post those seasons then he stopped. Either way he didn't progress much.
Lebron passed them all when he went to 10 straight Championship series
He didn't go to 10 straight....at least get your facts straight. His all time Finals record is 4-6.......
Quantity over quality
The participation trophy generation is real
Lol losing 60% doesn't equate to passing 😅 it was 9 straight and 5 of 9 were losses
Wat NBA do you watch??? U should be embarrassed for saying something so wrong..
@@andrewmatzo8167 The only people dumber than LeBron fans are liberal feminists
I swear Kobe's the Bruce Wayne/ Batman of basketball. He learned as much as he could from the greats of the past, his peers, and even the younger guys towards the end of his career. Pure greatness!
☝️
Yup, he's the batman to MJs superman.
and lebron is Homelander 😂
@@kalmkorn And Bronny's Homelander Jr 😂
@TJMiton and Kareem is Kryptonite because he owns MJ in every level of Basketball. MJ gets far to much love for an NBA career when dudes like Kareem.dominated every fkn level of it
The kobe disrespect is real
It is real. Its disturbing. He hasn't been retired for that long
hes BEEN getting disrespected even during his career. hows kobe get only 1 mvp??? i remember talking to someone in 2008 and they were like nope lebron way better than kobe. lebron nut riding is reallly real
Not really. Its Krazy how after he passed he was raised! I don't worship the dead. My God is of the living. Kobe has always been overrated b/c of his alignment and copying MJ. He's nowhere near MJ nd not better than Lebron
@@Atlas365247facts
@@Atlas365247Even if Kobe did copy Michael, he still had to execute things himself. Mike wasn't gonna forge Kobe's legacy for him. Kobe still did it on his own. lbj has no business being mentioned with them.
If I'm losing to Jordan, and I'm a coach or whatever...even though it is likely that I would still lose no matter what...if there is ONE guy that I thought might possibly be able to pull it off, it would be Kobe. It would not be Lebron, or Kareem, or Timmy, or Steph, or KD.
I’ve watched Kareem play. He had a automatic shot. He had a um would say a bag of tricks. I do think Kareem is better than Timmy however Timmy also came up big in fourth quarters during the finals.
@@JesusGonzalez-xz7jgare they comparing Timmy to Kareem? Not close…Kareem got ‘em
Facts! Kobe’s the closest thing. Nobody else is even close to breaching into that stratosphere, let alone be in the conversation. The real debate should be between Mike and Kobe. No other cases.
I agree with this.
@@Top_o_da_foodDChain closest thing, it that debate is long over. There is not even a new Kobe yet so we just have to wait for the next “one”
That awkward moment Mark Jackson was about to punch Reggie for giving an excuse...then Reggie remembers he's not commentating on a Laker's game but in a podcast with an old friend haha
i know haha. I love it. Kenny Smith also went in hard with this too., Cool to see these guys off the air of tnt spittin it
The 2 most disrespected, underappreciated and completely ignored player's in the "GOAT DEBATE" in NBA history are Kobe Bryant and Hakeem Olajuwan hand's down!!! Also even though Charles Barkley won't ever be in that particular discussion might possibly be the most underrated NBA player in history and possibly in all team sports!!! Barkley was an animal but he unfortunately for him he had to deal with Jordan and the Bulls!!! What truly pisses me off is the fact that LeChoke Job James gets credit and praise that Dewayne Wade did in those LeChoke's Miami Heat year's!! D. Wade was better than James every single year they were on the same team
I'd say Duncan as well. All 3 of them are crazy disrespected
@@TheRealMindCrime the reason I didn't mention Duncan is because at least some of us will bring him up but NOBODY mentions Barkley or Olajuwan and that's my point, but yes Duncan absolutely deserves his recognition as well
Wrong. It's easily Kobe and Bill Russell. Read the Bill/Wilt chapter in Bill Simmons' Book of Basketball.
@thsu8 you're crazy cuz Kobe and Bill Russell get mentioned all of the time!! And I'm not talking about the GOAT debate!! I'm talking about how great both players are but aren't ever talked about and David Robinson should be talked about more too!! I'm sick of hearing about Bill Russell when he only had to deal with 9 or 10 opposing teams and only a couple of legitimate big men to do battle with!! Much much different
@@TheRealMindCrime Duncan is over-respected now IMO. He is being put up in the top 5 quite a bit which is too high.
Leflop "surpassed" Kobe when he sadly passed away because there's no one to defend the conversation. Lemedia smeared his legacy.
You are wrong, there are lot of people who are real basketball fans and who are sick and tired of fake narratives and lies fabricated to push LeDiddy into imaginary nonexistant debate. Kob was only man who deserves to be compared to MJ player wise and what he accomplished, despite being pushed and diminished awards wise because Colorado incident
yeah that's what makes it so sick to me
Miss Kobe, too soon. If he were still here, he'd set LeFraud straight.
For real. This fake narrative has gotten out of hand when Kobe passed away. I'm 101% sure that this bs will not exist if Kobe'w still alive. He will not let the media get away with this stupidity.
@@randellllarena7525 💯
The media thinks for the simple minded sheep who try to ignore Kobe.....thats the reason when the 2008 team arrived in China they overwhelmingly chose Kobe..... A country with a higher IQ and no ESPN to manipulate.
yup, this is just an american thing because of american media being trash. Europe AND Asia know that Kobe is above Lebron.
That is a great point. LeBron and his Klutch handlers control the American media. The Chinese revered Kobe, not LeBron.
Not only Europe and Asia but the rest of the world knows Kobe is way better than Labron. It’s not even a discussion to be honest, even Tim Duncan is better than Labron.
But but but... China knew not only the leader, but all the support cast, and supported the support cast MORE than the leader. Shows how much you know about Chinese. Not that I know anything, and I admit nothing. They really don't care about the goat, but who else they cheer for and know way more than you about the rest of the team.
Kobe is number two to MJ. LeBalco should NEVER be in the GOAT debate at freaking all. Socially engineered himself into the conversation.
agreed
I have Magic after MJ,I do have Kobe ahead of Bron tho,but I'm not gonna Hate on his longevity just bcuz I don't like his antics..He spends $1M on his body to be able to still be relevant at 40..2days SOFTASS NBA is a contributing factor as well...
@@leecorleone you’re typing allegations but none has been proven 😂😂folks so salty!!
Too me if you take any type of PED it's disrespectful to the players before you.
@ 🤣🤣🤣so who took PEDS? Not you assuming but PROOF!!!
Lebron used Klutch to inject himself into the goat debate and remove Kobe completely. It disgusts me because this narcissist says "I don't cheat the game" but he'll disrespect one of the greatest players ever who isn't here to say anything. What a pos Lebron is. And Lebron isn't top 10. Guys like Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Russell all have a winning record in the finals. Lebron cannot be higher than them with a losing finals record.
Shaq vs Bron is debatable. But Shaq loses points for being outta shape and his prime not lasting longer
@@roboninja3194 Kobe is better because he has a winning record in the Finals is hilariously stupid . You should have added Robert Horry to your garbage list too. Bron fans shouldn’t even chime anymore since the arguments are so ridiculous. Kobe wasn’t even the best player on the team three out of five of his championships. Let me stop speaking facts they get in the way of falsehoods, back to the previous scheduled program. Lakers fans are crazy you are either a Kobe or a Bron fan but you aren’t allowed to be both
Lebron is in there because he took 3 different teams in a 10 year span to the Championship series. No other player could do what Lebron has done. Come straight out of HS and Dominate from day 1. Kobe didn't start, MJ couldn't have went straight to the pro's coming out of HS
@@maalbri1 Kobe wasnt the best player because you dont get that Shaq wasnt a random avg superstars, Shaq was in his prime but Kobe was still developing. Put Lebron into that Lakers team and he wouldnt have been the best player there either YET vs a prime Shaq. Lebron didnt have a top 10 of all time player like Shaq to play with. And btw in 2011 even Wade was better than Lebron in the playoff and where do you place Wade in the all time list? But btw you dont really get that what an advantage Shaq had. He was 216cm, 147kg dude that alone is a real shit. He didnt really need to much skills to produce good numbers. But Kobe had to work really hard for the same.
@@andrewmatzo8167LeBron wasn't dominating since day 1 lol I remember the media massively hyping him up as the next MJ while he was still playing in high school so it was a huge disappointment to watch his first game and see him miss so many shots, especially in clutch time, and I vividly remember thinking "LeBron has a lot to work on to be compared to MJ again"
A lot of people already believed that MJ was the greatest ever even before he had won his first championship. So for those people, including myself, the 6 rings were only just icing on the cake. The 6 and 0 is just a flex.
agreed! We already knew he was the BEST ever but he became the GREATEST ever because of those rings
@@TheRealMindCrimeyes! There is a distinction! LeBron is the best of his generation but nowhere near the greatest of all time.
Agreed
Did not win until Pippen showed up, expansion era, rules changed for him, 2 years off to rest his body....
@@VMCabrones LeBron: could not win until he joined multiple superteams, and still failed 60% of the time in the Finals.
Plays in the softest era where there were plenty of rule changes to make scoring easier.
Had months off BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS for his bubble asterisk ring, and won another in a lockout season. Takes multiple games off during the season for load management. Hasn't played 82 games more than once in a 20+ year career.
Oh, and Mike didn't "take time off to rest his body," he was playing a completely different sport.
Stop being a sheep repeating the media's lame ass arguments.
MJ alone up at the top. No one really argued against Kobe when he was compared to Jordan or thought to be better, oh you didn’t agree but you understood it. Lebron? no, that one you could not let slide
yup, MJ is the final boss
What about Wilt bro?
@@themoviereviewwarriors939 Wilt has the stats, but not the championships. Gotta have both.
@@J23LA24 Bullshit ... that's the utterly superficial analysis today ... Who'd you beat to get there? What are you measuring against? MJ Never Beat Bird 0-6 ... Why is That, Exactly?
@@bryanfox6726 how is that superficial? Looking only at stats is what is superficial. Having both means you were not only able to make yourself great, but elevated your teammates. That's the mark of greatness.
Jordan didn't beat Bird because he was drafted to a horrible team and had to build it up over 7 years. In that time, Bird had started having back issues. The timing wasn't right.
The bit where Reggie talked about Kobe asking questions about how to do such and such in order to improve his game is the reason why i believe Kobe (and MJ) is miles ahead and better than Lebron. Its that willingness to learn the game.
Lebron has been active for 20+ years and every aspect of his game hadn't changed at all....the charging down the lane with the head down...the inability to create a shot or make a shot etc etc.
I dont wanna go on because its already been talked about number of times. Sorry for the wordy post. Lol
but he knew better since he was lik e 8 remember... he said so... so it must be true
Yeah, Lebron was born knowing everything about basketball. We all know this because he’s the queen, born into it. Some say he is Dr Naismith reincarnated just to show us unworthy peasants how the game SHOULD be played. He always makes the right play.
Nah you're good man lol. I agree with you 💯
Keep preachin. This can never be said enough. Once he retires, all the truth will start to come out. he will certainly not be being talked about 30 years later.
@@Top_o_da_foodDChain Naismith was actually pretty trash at his own creation. Look up his coaching record sometime.
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Tim Duncan
7. Lebron James
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Jerry West
10. Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain
Solid! Just like my list, except I have Shaq and Wilt above Lebron
I’d add Hakeem up there too. Maybe above Lebron but under Wilt.
MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Russell, Shaq.
pretty solid list Mhaxthor!
Pretty good top 10! I always have a hard time solidifying 3-10 but I liked how you set the older guys in there aswell
Michael Jordan is WAY beyond being number one. If there was a higher position, that would be his.
MJ is the final boss
@@TheRealMindCrimewait u taking Kobe who avg 22 points on 38 percent shooting and 67 percent shooting from the Free throw line in game 7s over LeBron who avg 35 on 48 percent shooting and 77 percent from the Free throw line ok sounds smart to me
@@TheRealMindCrime Y'all silly ... MJ is 0-6 vs Bird ... What Final Boss Never Won One against the Real Boss? ... silly.
@@keithmitchell8372they can never accept LeBron as a legend. So much hate on the guy who has dominated for 2 decades.
I’m 31 years old and I’ve never seen MJ play, watched LeBrons whole career. Watch the highlights. MJ is the better player. You don’t need to be apart of an era to see that.
Well said
If more people did this it would be a much more interesting discussion, but a lot if people either to lazy or just not interested in doing that
Lebron isn’t even on my list. At all. There are too many enormous negatives with Lebron and it overwhelms everything else. I won’t list them because everybody that is honest knows that list and the list is long.
Of course championships matter! That’s the whole point. You play to win.
Agreed. With so many greats to choose from Im not picking Lebron. Way too many flaws
You can hate him but he has to be a top 5 player
@@TheRealMindCrimelol. way too manny flows yet got 40k 11k 11k? averaged 25, 5, 5 since 2005. Lebron haters likes to lie a lot 😂😂😂
Man yall sound so crazy even if you don’t like a player for whatever reason you can’t denied what you see with your plain eyes the talent. I didn’t rock with Kobe for years but I couldn’t hate on how good of a player he was.
I pick LeBron after the Airness. Why??? Because of his #1 all time scoring, his championships, his great 3 point percentage, his assists. No one believed the Captain could ever be overtaken for most points scored... and his Legacy plows on and on, plowing the snow and disbelievers aside...
Mark Jacksons son looks like a random Created Player on NBA2k
lol
And here we go 20+ years later and Lebron still has pretty much the same exact game, boring, nothing new, and doesn’t respect the elders and those before him. Didn’t he take lessons from Hakeem? And he doesn’t show any of that on the court at all. Didn’t utilize it.
The only reason I bring up Lefraud is because he’s for some reason considered the goat lol
Totally agree. It never made sense to me why people suddenly put him above Kobe
Wait. He overtook the Captain in overall scoring, and his all time assists is 4th after my favorite player Jason Kidd??? You just hating. You can't comprehend the lifelong accomplishments of a true goat. Now wait a minute, I'm not even a LeBron fanboi. I could care less. I only like Jason Kidd. But #1 scorer, #4 assists, about to overtake mah fave Kidd. You just hating. LeBron did more for Basketball than anyone else. Just acknowledge that. OK only not more than Magic and Bird combined. I acknowledge their epic battles that led to the emergence of the NBA today! But if Jordan was drafted to a terrible organization, who's to say he wouldn't have been a Tracy McGrady??? The Bulls were in a weak Eastern conference and were super lucky to pick up Scotty Pippen. The "others" are super important and underrated.
It's refreshing to see Reggie NOT praising LeFlop all the time, like he does on TV lately.
Good to see him not on tnt for a change lol
Mainstream media has to praise LeBron it’s apart of the agenda for him to be viewed as the “GOAT” it’s all fake
Michael Jordan transcends this list as the GOAT of GOATS
Greatest Basketball Player of AllTime
1. Kobe Bryant (vastly underrated by the statisticians-the player the league wants everyone to forget)
2. Kareem (Greatest ever if we include HS, college and pros)
3. Bird & Magic confusing I know … but Magic’s career was so amazing and he is universally recognized as the greatest PG that he needs to be here but Bird was better than Magic for the first nine years of their careers
4. Bill Russel 11 Championships Greatest Winner
5. Tim Duncan Greatest PF
6. Wilt Chamberlain Mr. Recordbook and Most Dominant
7. Hakeem Olajuwon probably the best ‘two way’ player after Jordan
8. Jerry West Da Logo
9. Julius Erving Dr. J would be thought of differently if we combined ABA and NBA accomplishments
10. Lebron James as overrated (most people put him 1 or 2) as Kobe is underrated
11. Moses Malone
12. Shaq One of the greatest underachievers of All Time. Should be top 5
13. Oscar Robinson
14. David Robinson
15. Elgin Baylor
Best Players in the league right now that could crack the top ten…
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Stephen Curry
No body else’s body of work is close enough to add after these two
Giannis over Jokic to crack top 10?
@ You’re right. This list I made 5 years ago for a debate I had and I just copied and pasted. The Joker is already a top 15 player with his achievements. Dude has basically played by himself his entire career.
Lebron won without Wade, Kobe without Shaq, Shaq, without Kobe, Wade without Bron, but how come MJ never won anything without Pippen? And Pippen went deeper in the playoffs without Jordan than Mike did without Scottie. He's Demar Derozan if he played in Lebron's era, he beat shitty ass teams in the finals, teams that won't make the second round of playoffs in the western conference today. Check the net efficiency of Lebron and Mike's opponents in the finals, incomparable! MJ made the playoffs in 85, 86, 87 with 30 wins, 38 wins and 40 wins. While Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 with 42 wins, MJ played in the weakest and cocaine era of basketball. Jordan and the Bulls had trouble with Reggie and the Pacers who took them to 7 games, imagine MJ and the Bulls playing against KD and the Warriors? Sweep with no close games. Mike, Scottie and Dennis can't handle an up and coming Grant Hill, while Iverson made Jordan looked like a fool. Jordan would get vertigo trying to guard Kyrie, Steph or even Trae. lol, Lebron would get jailed if he played in Mike's era for what he would do to players back then. Bron beat dynasties Spurs and Warriors, something Jordan know nothing about. Bird swept MJ's ass 2x in the first round and was 6-0 against him in the playoffs. LBJ even passed MJ in scoring taking 1,262 less shots. Jordanites are mad as hell, now that their idol who they thought could do no wrong is getting exposed for how weak his competitions were. We done with the no left no skill 80s and 90s. Lebron at 39, won Olympic Tournament MVP while MJ at 39, too busy destroying the Wizards franchise 🤦🤦😂😂
If it ain’t about championship why even play the game
Exactly. Same with the olympics. Goal is to win the gold
Because as we know who plays for championships is either predetermined or highly highly influenced through officiating. But I know people dont care and still will place a player with more championships over one who's more skilled and talented if he has less titles.
@@TheRealMindCrimeand lebron got 3 golds
This dude is a lebron hater. Listening to him more and more I can't take anything he say genuine. That discredit this whole video for me. You could have made the video short and just said (I don't like LeBron because ppl think he's better than kobe and Jordan)
@@noonieveliai9921 if you haven't noticed people tend not to change their minds. Especially when it comes to who they watched growing up. It's almost like they look up to that player as if he was their hero or dad idk. But in their eyes nothing anyone can say or show them will change that. It would be nice if people could remove their feeling and just view things with zero bias.
Kobe
- Beat the most 50+ win teams in NBA history
- Second most points scored in a single game NBA history, First most in the modern era.
- Oldest player to score 60+
- 3rd most consecutive 50+ point games in NBA history
- 2nd most All-NBA First Team honors won (tied with Malone)
- Most All-NBA Team honors won by a guard
- Most All-NBA First Team honors won by a guard
- 2nd most All-Defensive Team honors won
- Most All-Defensive First Team honors won (tied with Mike, GP, KG)
- Only player in NBA history to score at least 600 points in the postseason for three consecutive years
- Oldest player to record back-to-back games of 40+ points and 10+ assists
- Carried Olympic team to a gold medal
- 5x NBA Champion on a three-peat
- Dragged a squad with no other superstar/top 75 to repeat
- 2x Finals MVP
- 1x MVP
- 2x Scoring Champ
- 9x All-Defense First
- 3x All-NBA Second
- 18x NBA All Star
Kobe is also 1 of only 6 players to win back-to-back Finals MVP (2peat). Kobe did this in one of the most competitive conference in history.
Lead the 2000's with the most points scored in the decade and the highest scoring average of the decade.
Let’s stop acting like the 09-11 lakers were post MJ bulls, they were solid teams,
Yeah, Kobe did a lot of stuff. But, I've seen him disappear in big games in ways that could never happen with, say, Jerry West. I also saw Paul Pierce shut him down in a final. You couldn't play him with another superstar without major dominance issues. He blew games by taking crazy last second shots and refusing to pass. He wasn't the most efficient scorer. In his final season, a decrepit Kobe destroyed a young and talented Lakers team by making it all about him and happily shooting them out of games. On the plus side, he did drag an otherwise ordinary Lakers team to two championships. That was something, but he's not a serious GOAT candidate to me.
Listen...if Im picking my first 5 players....I'm going.....MJ, Hakeem, Bird, Magic, Duncan. I've got all bases covered & the IQ on my squad is Supreme Level. No dumb shots, no turnovers, no bad passes.
that 5 will also work as a great starting 5
Goddamn that's a great team👌
You don't have all bases covered. Bird and Magic will get abused on the perimeter by Durant and LeBron and Tmac and Melo and Luka and Steph and Kyrie.
@@thsu8 Riiiiiight....& whatever 5 you come up with will get abused on the perimeter & in the post. Now who is your 5.
@@thsu8 Durant is just a poor mans Grant Hill. Grant Hill has more versatility than Durant
Lebron is just a slightly better stronger version of Marques Johnson and Paul Pressy (the first true point forwards) but with zero bag in his game
Steph Curry is just Reggie Miller on steroids but who cant dunk
If Kobe was alive the GOAT conversation would be between him and Jordan. People would not be comparing Lebron to Mj because Kobe was the closest thing to the GOAT
LeBron wasn't anything like MJ. That's like saying Jokic isn't like MJ. So what? or Stephan Curry isn't like MJ. By the way, Stephan is the TRUE unicorn. He is the ONLY 1 position as the best player on the team to win a championship since the black and white film days. Even Yannis and the Joker play like the 3 on offense. And Stephan won TWO championships as the LEADER, making him the UNICORN GOAT! I'm not a Stephan Curry fan, but when does the Stephan vs Mike conversation begin? This is so stupid. Who cares who was best? Jason Kidd was my fave of all time! I was so all in during the playoffs when he defeated LeBron! But sports is just sports. There is no definitive criteria to who was best. Just appreciate Jason Kidd for uplifting you! And if you weren't a Jason Kidd fan, then screw you!!!!!! Nah, appreciate whoever you liked! Appreciate your fave! even if it was Tracy McGrady
I had Kobe behind Mike for years before his tragic passing, damn it still feels weird writing that
i know.....it's still weird that he's gone...
kobe is the goat to 3/4 of the players in the league right now. No matter how much the media tries to ruin kobe's legacy we seen all his history. His career is cemented as a top 10 arguably top 5 player of all time.
Very true! He influenced this gen like MJ influenced the previous
Kobe Bryant is better than lebron in so many ways. He has better highlights than most players. He's won more rings than most players
Agreed ☝️
@TheRealMindCrime if you take rings out, then Dominique Wilkins, Grant Hill, AI, Rondo, Curry. List goes on and on.
@@kaizokubro7398nobody filled arenas and prime time tv like #Mike🥰
Yes. That's why Lebron is 16-6 vs Kobe all time, beat his ass in every categories. Kobe is better than Lebron, at raping people, I give you that.
I'd love to see a 2 on 2 between Kobe vs LeBron. LeBron would win every single time. Even if not, it would be special.
Give me Kobe over LeBusto in the playoffs. Kobe actually dominated Duncan in the playoffs and LeBusto was dominated by Duncan in the playoffs. LeBusto stayed in the East because he couldn’t compete in the west and would have struggled to get to the finals. D Wade said it best after Kobe won ring 5, he called LeBusto so they could team up to beat Kobe.
I heard you call LeBron a "pass-first" player as his media campaign keeps pushing. I just can't go for that :) LeBron takes more shot attempts per game than Kobe, has less Assists Per Game than Muggsy Bogues (all-time, 5 ranks below at about #25), and we already know he has the most missed shots. ONE Assist title in 21 years. He is a shoot first player who pretends to be a PG, and often passes when he's choking or doesn't want the blame.
Pass first, #4 all time In assists but not even top 25 in assists per game
Fail.
Lebron is literally the best of all time at zero categories
@@TheRealMindCrime I think for Rebounds Per Game he didn't even make the list.
"LeBron is pass first" is just another example of manufactured propaganda spread by media talking heads paid by his Klutch handlers.
I watch LeBron and you're wrong. He really is a pass first player to his deficit when all his loser Lakers that are exchanged each year are unfamiliar with him... The Lakers GM is the worst ever, even worse than when the minority brothers tried to manage the team. I feel sorry for LeBron. The Lakers is the worst place for him to be. He wasted years there, although he did get a Covid championship. I don't expect the Lakers to win ever again with the AD-LJ lineup.
It’s hard to having any discussion without Kobe in the top 3. I just don’t even bother
If Mike is 1,kobe is 1A
One million percent.
Kobe represents the last of the mohicans, hoopers who truly loved and respected the game.
I think so too. He was the last of the old guard
I've always said that LeBron hacked the conversation with ONLY comparing himself to MJ alone, that way he leapfrogged all the other greats he can't even hold a candle to... 🤦
i know....it's so weird
@@TheRealMindCrimelongevity and amassed totals do that. Kareem too.
He leapfrogged the Captain, is #1 in scoring and is #4 in assists, right behind my fave player Jason Kidd... Like he defeated all other greats! Just look at LeBron's accomplishments! I'm no fan of LeBron, but I don't deny he's one of the best of all times in ALL categories! This dude, like Kenny Smith said, is the greatest physical specimen that the NBA has ever seen, and he has produced thoughout his lifetime in the NBA consistently! No other great can even start to say how consistent they were compared to the Ba-a-a-a-a-a goat LeBron! And I don't even care about him. I just acknowledge truth. I'm a Dallas fanboi because Kidd is the head coach! hahaha! How stupid is that! As stupid as every other fan! Go us stupid fans!
KOBE NUMBER 1 FOR ME ON MY LIST I AM A DIE HEART KOBE FAN
✊️
My Top 5 Goats 🐐(In My Personal Opinion)
1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Kobe
Winning is the number one criteria.
☝️
Noh! You get a Gold star, and you get a Rainbow, and you get ... Everyone's a winner! We love everyone equally! (at least we show that so we don't fight at Thanksgivings or New Years Eve!!! Yeay for everyone!
The reason ppl don't talk about Kobe in the GOAT debate is because the league wanted to remove him from the discussions to prop up LeBron. Shannon Sharpe tweeted in 2012 that Kobe was the 2nd best player ever and now after being bought by klutch is saying he's like 8th or something.
agreed. Asia and Europe know better though because they aren't influenced by American media. They all have Kobe over Lebron
I agree with Reggie on judging greatness but i would say that its both in my opinion the reason Duncan isn't in the goat conversation is because his playstyle was kinda boring
i agree but that also eliminates all the big men from the list. They're boring to watch. I think you're right though and that's why Russell, WIlt, Kareem, etc don't get enough love
Wasn't boring was the best ever to see after Jordan
@@raiderpaul8363 my point was that he didn't have that athleticism or flair that jordan had
@@TheRealMindCrime The Joker isn't boring! He's the funnest! He's the guy Reggie was saying is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers! How he took down the Clippers when they were down 1-3 in the playoffs! Nicola just picked the Clippers apart! The Joker is the most exciting player ever! His passes and shots are mind blowing! The Joker and even Antentenkounpo will win more championships! Big men are not boring! Tim Duncan was not boring! I was so blown away by Yannis's performance in game 6! He basically decided we win in game 6 or we lose in game 7. He led his team to dominate in game 6. It was incredible to witness! Big men can rule!
KOBE ALL DAY
All day
LeBron easily number 2 after Michael Jordan.. When LeBron is gone he will be more loved than hated.
I don’t think people put Larry legend in these lists often enough, you’re spot on.
Larry might be the second biggest killa ever in the NBA
Yeah i got bird tied at 3rd all time with magic for a reason lol. Guy was just that good and had an insane will to win
@ no doubt about it, you definitely know what you know
Your list is deadly
If we count championships, Bill Russell is The Goat!
How could Duncan, 5 rings 3 final MVP 2 mvp and so on is stretching and not lebron? Oh my god... I agree completely with you about mcgrady... If rings don't matter he is in my top 5 too... It's funny a few months ago I said the same thing to a friend... You play basketball to win rings
100% thats it right there. People get lost in the nonsense and forget the point of the game...to win lol
I think Duncan is so underrated because of his demeanor. If he was loud, self celebrating/promoting, and flashy people would look at him differently. Same thing with Hakeem
If it's all about titles, then that once again proves the point, Lebone isn't close, because without Ray, Flash, and Covid, Lebone only has 1...
it's a combo. Gotta win rings and also be the best on the team during that time.
Without Shaq, gasol and Fisher how many Kobe have?
Tim Duncan: 5-1 in finals
Lebron: 3-6
☝️
and 2 of those 6 losses are from Tim Duncan
@@mduzzzy4275 yeah!
I like the way you very subtly did not include that Mickey Mouse ring. Noice!
@@mj23goat3 yeah, that shit is the most absurd fluke in sports history.
the guy who gets left out the most is Dr.J, he was unstoppable and had the greatest impact on the generation that followed him. If the video footage was there like it is now, just go by the way his peers talked about him, and the footage that did catch him in his prime. During the mid 70's to mid 80's it was Doc and Kareem that were the most feared.
that's true and to be fair I'm part of that problem. I don't mention Dr J nearly enough
What Reggie is talking here, Kob talked with Shaq in the interview about same thing, he said that 1 on 1 helped him a lot in the series with Pacers later. Great story. Kob was a student of the game, he was fully immersed in the craft. I like your takes brother, very level headed, keep up the great work 👍
hey thank you so much zvon! I really appreciate that
To me Lebron is not even top 10 all time on the GOAT list. If you remember back when Kobe was playing Lebron barely wanted to compete against Kobe. Whether it was in an all-star game , an Olympic team practice game , or even in a real game. You could see Kobe wanted all the smoke vs Lebron any chance he had to play against him. Lebron ...not so much. Bron has alot of bravado now against these younger players who only know this eras style of basketball with no defense no hand checking rules and no idea of how tough the league used to be. I see Bron go up for a rebound with only himself literally under the basket. I've seen Bron drive to the basket through a wide open runway...lane...for a layup or dunk. Then Bron screams out and flexes. Lol Bron is utilizing this eras weak version of the game and he knows it.
I don’t care what anyone says. Kobe is the 2nd best player to ever touch a basketball behind Michael.
I agree 100%
Your opinion.
@therealmindcrime do you put T-Mac above Dr. J?
I do not. Dr J did it on an individual level and won 2 rings in the ABA as well as 1 in the NBA. He earned his spot. I got to watch T mac's whole career though so I like him a lot. Just wish he won more
MJ would have targeted lebron so hard. All it would have taken was for someone to even hint that they thought bron was better than him. If you thought you've seen lebron quit before, that's nothing to how quick he'd have quit when mike put that pressure on him. MJ would have ripped what little heart lbj has and eaten it raw.
For sure. Just like he did with anyone who was compared to him. He ended that comparison immediately by showing us how much better he is
I have been saying Kobe should be in the Goat conversation for YEARS! and no one pays attention. MJ is the Goat for me personally, but to put Lebron ahead of Mamba and Kareem is Just absurd.
Kobe WAS in the Goat conversation for many many years. It was only when Lebron entered the conversation that everyone acts like Kobe didn't happen. It's weird
@@TheRealMindCrime it is super weird , Kobe was the reason i continued to watch NBA bball after him i rarely follow it, the NBA has changed drastically and I dont like it, but this is me personally I know kids around their early 20's think differently and that is understandable.
TBH Kobe’s mentality put him into the GOAT debate, he’s not talented as MJ and LBJ (LBJ has the weakest mentality but his physicality put him into the GOAT debate), let’s put Kobe in Jordan’s shoes, no Shaq no Phil and other good role player in his early career, he’s not gonna have that 3 peat, prime Shaq was a cheat code, nobody has answer to him. I think that’s the reason why people not putting Kobe in Goat debate.
agreed. Kobe wasn't blessed with natural gifts for the game. He got everything with hard work
Just think about how badly penny fumbled being the first 3 peat with shaq, He had the most dominant teammate and didnt capitalize on the opportunity, if dude would have took the backseat to shaq in orlando he probably could be considered in the top 10, he was robin that want to force his way 1st option, when you play with someone like just get him the ball and get out the way
@@Kakarot8-10-24 I don’t blame Penny cuz Jordan wasn’t retired, same thing with Kobe, if Jordan was 4-5 years old younger, Phil still coaching the bulls, Kobe and Shaq still won’t have a chance.
@@Idlehands-buddy Nobody was stopping shaq, he just needed teammates during his orlando days, and the bulls had nobody that could guard shaq, dennis rodman couldnt hold shaq without fouling
@@Kakarot8-10-24 Penny was better than Kobe when Kobe hasn’t become black mamba, so even you switch Penny to Kobe they still won’t win.
Top 10 NBA players all time:
1 - Michael Jordan
2 - Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3 - Kobe Bryant
4 - Wilt Chamberlain
5 - Larry Bird
6 - Tim Duncan
7 - Bill Russell
8 - Lebron James
9 - Magic Johnson
10 - Hakeem Olajuwon / Shaquille O'neal
Having Hakeem and Duncan on there makes me happy
Sold list ... except for Lebron ... I don't give two shits 'bout padded stats ... I'll Take Elgin Baylor Over Lebron James All Day Every Day ... Twice Sats & Sundays, etc., etc., etc.,
... and Bird, Elgin & Wilt are Over MJ & Kareem ...
If rings don’t matter Allen Iverson is top 2 ever
☝️
We all know JJ Barea is the real GOAT
I got JJ number 2 behind Teen Wolf
@@TheRealMindCrime 😆
"My personal goat" is a logical fallacy. Kinda defeats the purpose. The whole matters when you put it into context. Sorry, but your personal favorite doesn't cut it when it comes to the goat debate.
agreed. Im lucky to where my GOAT pick is also my favorite player but most of my other favorite players are not in the goat race
The Mark Jackson show (was supposed to be named the steam room after Charles) is great and normally reactions suck but you bring value to this and I want to acknowledge that
1) Michael Jordan
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Magic Johnson
4) Larry Bird
5) Shaquille O'Neal
nice!
I would put Hakeem, Duncan and Kareem (and a few others too) ahead of Shaq...
@@OlJackBurton I love those players, but a prime Shaq was something else.
The fact that you put Shaq ahead of Wilt is ludacris.
@nbagoats4819 Shaq played in one of the toughest eras defensively and talent wise. Maybe if he accomplished what he did in a more competitive, modern NBA. Shaq dominated in a way we've never seen and still haven't seen before, and this was against freaks of nature.
“LeBron is the greatest to me”
Never played professional basketball, but again that’s his opinion.
All the while, his HOF dad and Reggie sit across from him are telling him MJ is the GOAT, because they actually PLAYED against him.
90% of LeBron fans are like this
Kobe lead me to realize my own potential i didn't know how to get better in life his work ethic was the secret and i mirror it and motivated myself to work on my entire life as a whole mamba mentality is really something u use for hope
that's how i feel too. It's MJ then the list begins after him. He's the final boss and no one is challenging his spot, yet
But. Duncan whipped that chump twice!
Kobe and Duncan owned the 2000's!
Kobe and Duncan owned the 2000s and Steph owned the 2010s. Lebron never dominated an era let alone all time
Duncan is not a pf. If Duncan is a pf then olajuwon is a pf. Both spent 5 seasons as a pf and rest at center.
Great point. Duncan played center from November 2003 until he retired.
Olajuwon, I believe, preferred the 4 ... and on my GOAT TEAM ... I play him at 4 ... Jerry West @1, Elgin Baylor @2, Bird @3, Hakeem @4, Wilt @5 ... unbeatable, I believe ...
@@bryanfox6726 great lineup.
I'd run magic at the 1
2 is MJ all.day
3 prime tmac
4 KG
5 I'd put prime Sabonis.
Put that lineup against yours.
People say wtf when I put prime sabonis at the 5 but that guy was insane in his prime. 7'3" and could shoot and handle the ball and was big enough to play against wilt or shaq. See how he destroyed David Robinson in 88?
@@MJIZZEL Good team ... but no chance against my team ... styles of play do not mesh ... Magic, MJ, TMac ... can't play without the ball in their hands ... no Chemistry ... and No Chance for Anyone on your team to get stops against my players ... I Love Magic ... Mt. Rushmore begins with Baylor, Magic & Bird ... be No NBA without them ... but Magic has 0 chance of guarding Jerry West, Who's Too Fast and can pull-up so quick with dead-eye accuracy ... nothing Magic could do defensively ... Whereas West, defensively would be a Major Bother for Magic ... and pick his pocket very frequently ... advantage West ... MJ vs Baylor ... scoring's a wash ... Baylor better & more willing passer + an extra 8-9 rebounds / game which translates to more scoring = advantage Baylor ... Tmac vs Bird ... With my front-line of Bird, Hakeem & Wilt = the paint is closed for MJ & TMac ... Contested Jumpers Only. Whereas TMac offers no Stopping of Whatever Bird wants to do ... KG is dominated by Olajwon ... Nothing easy for KG ... Nothing. Advantage Olajuwon ... Sabonis is Highly Under-rated ... but, like everyone else is Dominated Everywhere by Wilt ... Team-wise ... I have no ball-dominant egos, I have willing passers ... better ball movement & Flow ... Result = 4-0 sweep at worst ... 4-1 at best (Gentelman's Sweep) ...
When did all the bigs get passed. Before Jordan it was Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. After Mike they all disappeared. How do you think they are better than a center who anchored teams offensively and defensively.
Magic and Bird started a new way of thinking when it came to drafting. Before it was take the best center available. Magic and Bird changed that, no one else.
Mark needs to stop the cap championships matter 😂😂😂 Tim Duncan over Lebum all day every day.
Agreed!
If it's gauged on who's the better basketball player and no accomplishments, then Lebron is not in my top 50.
Thats how i feel too honestly
i dont care if its 1 game or 1,000 games...im takin mj every single time never fail. lebron aint even in my top 5 get outta here with that goofy stuff
agreed. MJ win or lose I can live with it. I know he gave it his all. Lebron is full of excuses so I can't rely on him
This clip is a great example of how great Jordan was. When they played, he and Reggie Miller hated each other yet Reggie has nothing but respect for him and refuses to put ANYONE over MJ. To this day, Mike’s game transcends their sour relationship.
Exactly! Reminds me Mike Tyson. They all hated him when they had to get through him but after the dust settled they all talk about how scary he was. Same with MJ
Wilt games are all over TH-cam...Basically Shaq with a 15 foot Mid range game!!!
Shit, Wilt had 15 foot finger rolls all day ... but there was NOTHING you could do with that turn-around fade away ...
I'd LOVE to see Wilt Smash Shaq (Humility Needed ...) I'd like to see Shaq hit Wilt with a couple of elbows & LET THE SHOW BEGIN ...
Wilt was a stronger, fitter, faster version of Lakers Shaq
@@jordanmahony4268 Yep ... but, with SKILLS ...
The goat debate should be restricted to an era. Players like Shaq would average 50 points in the paint today. Jordan had to do it when you're allowed to: 1) elbow players driving down the lane, 2) use your hands to check (i.e. push) your opponent on defense, 3) players in the past actually tries to excel in both defense and offense. James may be one of the best in his era, but let's not pretend he'll be anything more than a decent SG had he played in the 90s.
Kobe is so special
If I had one game to save my life I’d pick like this -
1. Mike
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac
4. Timmy / Kareem
5. Shaq
How SHOULD we approach the goat convo? Who we’d pick for a game or all-time stats?
I agree with you, T-Mac is up there!
add Bird to that list and I agree lol
@@TheRealMindCrime Bird at the 3 for T-Mac? Yeah, I can’t argue against that either.
@@Top_o_da_foodDChain either way this team is gonna crush 😆
How many balls are you going to give them?😂😂 that’s great list on paper but mentality wise I don’t think they’d “play” well together
KOBE MY GOAT
I totally respect that 👏
I never liked Reggie. I respected his game but I hated him. When he provoked Kobe to punch him by trash talking his wife was over the line and now the way he is part of the LeMedia…. I just dont like the man. LOVE Mark Jackson.
Whoa! Reggie lived on the rivalries and edging everyone up and the trash talking! That was the essence of the 80's! Gary Payton, etc... The NBA is built on hatred and demolishing. If it were on just respectful competition, only LeBron might sneak in, and every other star would be expelled. (though LeBron might be expelled by his own team 🤣) Reggie was a great competitor who exploited every rule to his favor like in any competition. Reggie elevated the NBA to higher levels and I acknowledge him for that. I'm not a fan of him, but he did make the NBA better by his competition. He was a great addition to the variety of gameplay. Mark Jackson was a nobody who racked up assists to the great Reggie Miller. Yes, Mark Jackson was a nobody. He was already overweight as an NBA player!
Duncan , we seen him get bad end of bad referrees, and how he handled it..
ther guy has everything his way and still whines.
Because Duncan like Kareem and a few others.. younger Kobe ect... werent there to kiss the cameras, were basketball players.. this is "Boring" for media and the money machine.
STILL got more done stayed competitive his career, not just the few years he could stack the right talent.
agreed. the boring thing keeps all the great bigs out of the conversation. Duncan, Russell, Wilt, etc. It's not about being flashy it's about being the best on the team and winning rings at the same time
Boston owns Kyrie its that simple lol. I think accomplishments has to be a part of the criteria, its not all that matters but it is important. Nobody ever says when LeBalco surpassed Kobe, I've never heard the fanboys say when they just dismiss, its like all I'm asking is when, it's not hard. For example, IMO MJ became the GOAT after the first three peat just because he was so dominant on both ends of the flor it wasn't just that he won it was he was dominant while winning.
Yeah they say he passed Kobe in 2016 but they can't explain WHY lol
MJ. Kobe. The rest. No one is close. And lebron isn’t a top 20 all time.
Agreed, but Bill Russell is obviously 3rd behind those two. The leadership, the winning intangibles, the EQ, the intelligence, the understanding of the game, the selflessness....no other big is close.
Lmao you re dumb
🎯🎯🎯
@@thsu8Wilt. KAJ. Duncan. Hakeem. Moses Malone
@ none of them are close to Bill Russell.
Kobe is ahead of Lebron on every list I put together.
Same with me. Its not even close imo
@ 💯
Saying championships don't matter is like saying size doesn't matter, does it account for everything?....no but it matters more often than not.🤣
yup! saying it doesn't matter is just coping
@@TheRealMindCrime exactly! I think Mark Jackson feels that way cause he's still a bit salty abut not winning a chip....and pippen shutting him down...Shhhh
Imagine if Kobe had Jordan's hands and vertical.🤔
That would've been epic
Then he would have been Dominique Wilkens x10 🤣 Noh! It would have gone to Kobe's head! He would have been the ruin of the NBA! No hate on Kobe. Just realistic psychoanalysis. Sorry to anyone I offended.
Bro ur dismissal of Lebron is a joke lmao
Is it bad that Barack Obama called out all the NBA players all star game horrible performance?
I think that's hilarious. He's an old school Bulls fan so he knows what basketball SHOULD look like lol
Ppl always forget, what’s not in front of them….
Lebrick is number 11-13 on the all time list
Having Lebrick in the top ten is disrespectful to over 10 players before him and two still playing today better than Lebron
Steph and Durant
Yeah i currently have him 11. People get really mad about it but its my legit place for him. Too many good greats and that top 10 is loaded
Duncan would've won six rings if Ray Allen would've missed that 3 in the finals.
I know! That shot was insane
You mean if Ray Allen missed the bailout 3 after LeBron choked on 4 straight possessions in the final minute of that Game 6....
Lebron James never participated in any all star events Mike did Larry did Kobe did cause they loved the game and respected the fans Lebron has been spoiled since he was a kid Michael Jordan never said he was the greatest lebron says it all the time and he’s tripping
MJ. Kobe Bryant that's it's
I like Kobe but not every game did he make his team or teammates better. There were days he was only looking to shoot.
Thats why he's not number 1. He had a little too much Iverson in him imo
@@TheRealMindCrime Exactly. That's why Michael is 1 and Kobe is 2. Kobe did take some bad shots although he was the best bad shotmaker in league history.
Yeah, they were known as "most days".
@@TheRealMindCrimeyeah. But at least at 6'5 - 6'6, he got cleaner looks than Iverson often got. It's one reason I was never an Iverson fan. At 6 ft, he forced way too many shots, drifting, floating, etc.
@@TheRealMindCrime He got that From Jordan ... It's the Main Thing I Fault About His Game -- patterned Too Much after Mike ... Needs More Bird & Magic in His Game (jus' like Mike ...)
Championships has nothing to do with skill set, winning chips is a team effort not individual effort
Jordan is #1, but Lebron is way above Kobe. Lebron is somewhere between 2 and 5, Kobe is somewhere between 7 and 9.
It annoys me when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar isn’t even considered to be the goat. The man won three straight high school state championship, he won three straight college championships, he won six NBA titles, at 38 years old he was the oldest MVP ever in the NBA finals. He won 6 season MVPs.The man held the scoring record for 39 years with only one career three-pointer. We need to put more respect on his name! He is the most accomplished NBA player ever. To think that he can rely on one go to move and that was the sky hook and master that shot. What more can I say about the guy? Kareem is my goat pick!
Nice list here is mine.
1. Bill Russell
2. Michael Jordan
3. Wilt Chamberlin
4. Tim Duncun
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Kareem
7.David Robinson
8. Magic Johnson
9. Manu Ginobli
10. Larry Bird
niiiiiice!
@@TheRealMindCrime thanks. Surprised by manu being on? Shouldn't be..
Horrible list. My goodness 🤦🏻♂️
@@fkillah explain how dufus?.
Number one is the greatest team player and defender and winner of all time, next to the greatest in my Era with the most heart and most powerful team in the '90s. who is than followed by the greatest center who still has records unbroken nearly 50 year's later. Than the greatest p.f. ever who was nearly 28 seconds away from being 6-0 In the finals although 5-1 is incredible considering how difficult the early 2000s we're defense wise. Than the greatest laker of all time and probably the best scorer I've ever seen who had an 81 point game. Than have David who was unstoppable in his prime HAD a 71 point game won every award his rookie year in Robinson, including the most fearsome competor I've ever seen in Manu who defeated the u.s. for gold in 2004, euro champion and 4 time nba champion. Plus bird magic, bird, Kareem. That's a solid damm list. What could you possibly say about it without including these same player's.. I certainly hope you're not going list whom I think you're going say..cuz I garentee these player's on my list have beaten them at one point..lol.
@@oronasundialand David Robinson over Shaq and Hakeem 😂 this list is amazing! 🤣🤣
Now that’s what players today SHOULD be doing! Learn from the greats that came before them. Anthony Edwards should be watching this video! 😅
lol!! yeah ANT can definitely learn something from this. Too bad he thinks he the best already
Great list got yourself a new sub
Thank you!
I did NOT see a “heated debate.” I saw two buddies giving each other sh*t about hypotheticals in a loving manner. This was pure “bro love” all the way around.
Being a Champion and raising your game to the greatest Championship level is the icing on the cake winning a trophy for your city and its franchise is why a player is there it is the ultimate goal the players in the GOAT argument have winning records in the finals
Hakeem Olajuwon is far superior player. Far superior. Skill-wise, Hakeem is top 10 in rim protection, post play, offensive rebounding, big man steals, etc.
Lebron James is not top 25, skill-wise, in any discreet basketball discipline. Playmaking? Dribbling? Is he top 25 in outside shooting, rebounding? blocks? Leadership? Is he top 25 in steals? FT shooting?
Skill-wise, Lebron is not top 50 in any distinct b-ball discipline.
Some of us know something the rest of you have not yet realized: Lebron's career was orchestrated. Lebron James is a manufactured product. The man is a brand.
And most of you fell for it. You think he's top-10-great just not "goat-great"
Truth is, without league help & media manipulation, the man may or may not be considered top 75.
As for how the league and media work in concert to orchestrate a career and create a "player brand" is another, deeper subject. But those who know, _KNOW._
People always add “If we’re in a park pick up game shit because they’re not, we’re talking about accomplishments in the league.
Kareem is the GOAT.
a few reasons.....
3 straight high school titles
3 straight college titles
10 NBA Finals (6 - 4)
could just stop there, but....
6 NBA MVPs
Was NBA all time leading scorer (didn't come out of HS)
Played 20 seasons (2 teams)
18 playoff appearances
and the Sky Hook..... never duplicated.
GOAT = Most accomplished 🏀 player
I respect that. Still wish i got to see him in his prime
There's a difference between being a historian of the game and a student of the game. Kobe was definitely a student of the game.
The odd thing about these GOAT discussions, is here we have Kobe just picking the brains of every great player he can to improve his own game. Who's brain did MJ pick? I've never heard a single story of MJ asking anyone about anything concerning basketball. How did he envision where he was going with his talent and physical abilities?
He got cut from his high school team, okay there's definite motivation. But, the knowledge has to come from somewhere. Was Dean Smith really that great a coach? If so, then Bobby Knight's comments about Jordan being the greatest high school player he'd ever seen make no sense to me.
Now, I've never heard any stories of LBJ picking anyone's brains either. But, MJ's game evolved over time. I don't think LeBron's has. It still looks the same to me after 20 years.
That is a good question. We've heard,about Kobe picking guys brains but never Jordan. So where did he learn all his play from? He got some things like dunks from Dr J but his foot work and handles who did he learn from
@@leonardjackson6210 Exactly! We know that Phil either taught or at least convinced him to work with and eventually trust his teammates. But that other stuff? I just don't know. 🤔
well said here! I never see any stories about Lebron learning from anyone
@@TheRealMindCrime he went and supposedly studied and trained with Hakeem in either 2012 or 2013 on his footwork and post moves. He actually played a little more in the post those seasons then he stopped. Either way he didn't progress much.