Comparing the movie Young Guns with the true story of Billy the Kid
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2024
- Chris Wimmer is the producer and host of the popular Infamous America podcast. He joins us today to separate fact from fiction in the movie Young Guns.
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Like the movie or not.. But, Young Guns are to this day the most accurate interpretation of the Lincoln County War..
3 guys playing card someone comings running in shouting...."Hey, the world's coming to an end!" and the first one says, "Well, I best go to the church and pray," and the second one says, "Well, I'm gonna go and buy me a case of Mezcal and six whores," and the third one says "Well, I'm gonna finish the game."
I shall finish the game, Doc. I'm gonna finish the game.
New Mexico is mentioned during the narration wrap up saying billy continued to ride, never leaving New Mexico
In George Coe's autobiography, he mentions after the war Steve Stevens was still with him and back to farming. He also eluded that "Dirty" had nothing to do with hygiene, he was underhanded.
They do mention new mexico, Albuquerque, lincoln county and the town of lincoln in the film at least once each in the film. This was one of my favourite films as a kid in the early 90s. And even then I knew the setting without any prior knowledge (we don't learn much about Billy the Kid in schools in the North East of Scotland).
I must've missed that mention on my listen, but I do always like to get some more historical context for folks who don't know the setting. Thanks for listening Stuart!
Does anyone know a good biography of Billy the Kid? I saw a film in the 90's that depicted him as retired and living peacefully until he is tracked down by a guy who shoots him in the back while he is hanging a picture in his house.
Can anyone recommend a comprehensive biography of BTK? I have heard and seen movies that revealed several conflicting accounts of where he spent his life as well as how his life was ended. One movie had him retired and eventually tracked down and shot in the back while he was hanging a picture in his home.
David Hugo Barrett
I actually enjoyed the part where he said mcsween was nonviolent. There's a part in the movie that portrays that. "Active involvement in a gun battle would negate my life insurance policy...we can't have that"
You guys forgot to talk about the Gun fight with Buckshot Roberts at Blazer's Mill!
You know something? He killed more men than smallpox
If you go to Lincoln today, it is just like stepping back in time. The structures are just like they were (for the most part). Great road trip!
Yes, it's really an incredible experience.
This was really cool, well-done, and enjoyed it. Like how the researcher, despite knowing that parts of Young Guns are "movie hype", still loves those movies. What wasn't mentioned, was YG II, which I find to be just as intriguing as the first. Love the characters in all of them. Thanks for taking the time, we truly appreciate it!!
Definitely. You can tell they didn’t originally intend to make two movies because bits of the second half of the conflict were included in the first movie and it makes the transition between the two movies a little awkward. Still two really great movies despite the inaccuracies.
On a side note, I keep seeing interviews saying they are currently making a third movie. I don’t know how that is going to work with all of the actors being so old now. I wonder if they will continue on with the Brushy Bill Roberts storyline or what?
A friend in Lincoln believes the photo of the people playing croquet is Billy. He says it looks like it's at the Tunstall store and would've been a game John Tunstall might've brought over from England. (Most sources say the game originated in Ireland in 1850 so makes sense it would've been popular in England at that time).
That picture was taken somewhere on the Chisum ranch
At the end of the Young Guns, Kiefer Sutherland (Doc) is narrating that Billy never left New Mexico.
There is rumor that Billy the Kid wasn't really killed by Pat Garrot, Garrot killed someone else and they claimed it was Billy, many years later a old man claimed he was Billy the Kid.
As a kid I had the western trump cards and pat garrett is shown shooting billy the kid in the back...what a coward,...glad he died 4 years after billy
The lawman who was supposed to have Billy the kid, sorry to correct you was Pat Garret and apparemtly like you have said there is a rumor going around that he had shot somebody else who's name was also Billy. So Billy the kid survived and went through life by the name of Brushy Bill Roberts, which if you have seen the movie Young Guns II you will see him at the begining of the film. Myself being a Billy the kid fan wishes that this would be true and that the kid lived out his life, but like we've said its just a rumor, we dont know the truth. I also think that this could be true cause when Billy had been captured by Pat Garret at Stinking Springs and was taken away to be judged and hanged, its been said that both Pat & Billy were freinds and its very strange that shortly after he had been caught, that Garret had to go away to organize something out when he could of sent one of his deputies to do so and then also strange that Billy found a Pistol in the outhouse and I think ´´Hold on!! 1, Pat went away 2, These two were supposed freinds and to me like everyone else, one plus one make two, so this makes me think that Pat Garret didnt want to kill Billy so he left him a gun in the outhouse and so that no one would blame Garret for doing so, he left to organize something out. This is just my thoughts of what had happened. I apologize for the long message.
Brushy Bill Roberts. DNA evidence proved he wasn't Billy The Kid. However, the confirmation of Pat Garrett's kill came from Pat himself. This makes his testimony questionable.
@@SirBlackReeds whatever
I don't think that Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy the Kid. But I do find it odd that no photos were taken of his body and he was quickly buried. Also supposedly one of Pat Garrett's deputies that was with Pat Garrett, I forget his name at the moment but he told Garrett that it wasn't the Kid. I would like to think that he escaped and went to Mexico and lived out the rest of his life there.
Great video but he got one thing wrong some of the Regulators really did carve out the word "PALS" over Billy Charlie & Tom's Tombstone in New Mexico. I saw it & took pictures of it when we went to visit their grave sight!
chris pod cast on billy is reaaally good
the movie is definitely a dramatic interpretation of the facts but the writer knew the true story incredibly well and loved billy's story, but he knew to get across the right feelings and to convey it in an entertaining way that was time effective, he needed to make changes. but they tried to make sure nothing changed who the people were, or what it felt like to be in that time and place. I read an article from him awhile ago, and it was very interesting to learn about that process of changing the true story to make people understand the truth better and to have a better understanding of how it felt to be there.
The current tombstone does say “PALS” at the top and actually Charlie Bowdre was killed by Garrett in the area of Stinking Springs but his body was returned to Fort Sumner.
New Mexico is mentioned as well as The Town of Lincoln, Lincoln County, Roswell, Alberqurque, Santa Fe and Fort Sumner.
I think the reason they made Tunstall older was purely dramatic effect to emphasize the fatherly role and to make the revenge mission The Regulators go on more of a powerful moment.
Murphy died from Cancer. By the time the events of the Lincoln County War happened JJ Dolan was running the outfit known as "The House".
Alex McSween was pretty much the main instigator of the whole thing. Not only did he bring in Tunstall but apparently he represented one of Murphys other partners a man named Fritz in an insurance settlement and may have confiscated or stolen the money which was supposed to go to Dolan for some reason.
after McSween was killed in his yard chickens pecked his eyes out...
As an 11 yr old when this movie came out I was not as learned in the geography or the history of the old west. To me and probablly many other Canadian 11 yr olds back then Young Guns was or is the reason we became interested and delved into it all.
In my opinion The Kid was the ultimate victim of circumstance he did what he had to do to stay alive during one of the hardest times in American history.
he could hold his own with a very rough bunch of hardened men. He stuck out because of this and his personality played a part as well....and that's why we are here talking about him today.
Young guns 2... "I am new mexico"... New mexicans know stories about Billy very well... you mention which way his horse is heading, we automically know.
The headstone where William, Tom and Charlie is buried, actually does have the word "PALS" written on it.
That is actually not fiction.
Who snuck in and wrote on billys tombstone pals ?
@@jessem3984 no one. its engraved on the tombstone they all are burried togther
@@jonathanwood1863 Like I said, the headstone and no one actually knows.
@@jessem3984 I didn't say anyone "snuck" in.
I think I need to correct myself -i think I got the movie and the TV show confused, but I do remember a TV show where they where the pony express riders!
I had the good fortune to be able to spend time in the town of lincoln, n.m. seeing the structures that were there during the billy the kid era. a few very informative historians that were available to chat with. If ever I make it back to that neck of the woods. I would enjoy viewing the "billy the kid" statue. 🙂
They did say new mexico, in young guns 2 when billy goes to collect some money he threatened billy and said " i am New Mexico".
Wish you could have gone into Young Guns II. From what i have read it is more historically accurate.
Try Sam Peckinpah’s “Pat Garret and Billy the Kid”, then think again. Has more authenticity and closer to the traditional truth without the OTT shoot ups. Great atmospheric soundtrack too by Bob Dylan.
@@richardweaverfilms6673 why would you say that? Almost everything in Pek’s was fake
I try to focus on a single movie for each episode. I've gotten requests for Young Guns 2 though, so I'll assume your comment is a request and add it to my list :)
@@BasedonaTrueStoryPodcast
Hopefully you get that YGII podcast done soon. There is a third movie being made with the original cast, as well. I’ve seen several interviews from the set.
Looking forward to your part II.
Good and interesting content, thank you very much😁
Been a fan of Wimmer's podcasts when they started coming out around pandemic. Worth a listen if you like Outlaws.
His podcasts are great!
"I'll make you famous."
The gravestone does say pals is that a new inscription since the film or is it just saying here lies Billy the kid and pals?
Top of the afternoon Leon if your catching this too.
First time listener here. Just curious what do you do your podcasts on?? History? Movies? I loved this podcast by the way learned so many facts!!
Thanks Jonathan! Both 😊 Historical movies. Glad you enjoy the show!
Excellent podcast
They mentioned new Mexico all through both movies
Seen 'old henry' by any chance yet?.
Estevez looked nothing like billy! The film the kid with dane dehaan is spot on! He looks like billy, and the story is less glorified!
I agree Estevez looks nothing like BTK if you look at the tin type photo.
check out 'old Henry' great new Billy flick 2021
When I was a kid playing cowboys. I was always Billy the kid! If you read about him he actually tried to be a good guy!
What about the show The young riders?
Anthony zerbe, Emilio Estefan (?) Lou diamond Phillips.
Can you do an episode on Harriet, the new movie about Harriet Tubman??
Great recommendation! I'll add it to my backlog!
What happened to you doing a pod cast on doc skerlock
The premise of my show is all about movies. Is there a movie about him?
I shall finish the game!
Just finished watching the billy the kid series on prime and it totally ruined the whole plot line. It has Charlie already married. Had billy working with Murphy prior to meeting tunstel. A lot of stuff that ruins the whole plot
Correction he does not kill mr. Chisholm
Who's Chisholm? 🤨
hi
They were trafficking women it was not unusual.In new mexico it was illegeal to own slaves.They passed a law called Guardianship .The many childern stolen were given to rich Spaniards to use as slaves.
Guardianship means slave owner in New Mexico Documents
Have you read Dan Edwards book on Billy the Kid
Now thats my great great great grandfather Henry McCarty❤✊😉
The real Billy died in the 1950s
No Billy The Kid movie is really accurate. Young Guns was the closest.
Young guns 2 talks of that theory
Emilio Estevez himself also bears the closest physical resemblance to Billy The Kid.
@@SirBlackReeds thats true he read the article of billy the kid he learns and he studies on Billy the kid aka Emilio Estevez took place you know the governor lied to Billy if he testified against Tunstall murder against Murphy and sheriff brady well bob an bell got what they deserved they knew Billy would escape one last time i hope 3 happens i have 1/2 i need young guns lll i hope get young guns lll blaze of glory soundtrack Jon Bon Jovi
@@SirBlackReeds yes,born for the part.Loved the films in spite of all the inaccuracies.
@@susanmccormick6022 pretty darn accurate though for not being advertised as a biopic or true story. 👍👍
When Billy the Kid kills mr. Chisholm he says that he is the scourge of New Mexico
He doesn't kill Chisholm. In fact, Chisolm and Tunstall had a good business arrangement.
Who the hell is this Chisholm?
Unless people mean John Chisum.
For one Pat Garrett never killed Billy the Kid That was a lie. Billy the Kid died in 1950 at the age Of 90 years old he died in Hico Texas City kid What I have found out is he died of a massive heart attack at the age of 90. Bush bill Roberts was Billy the Kid. That's what I have found out through the years in all the videos that I have seen and I believe in my heart the Billy the Kid died at the age of 90 Those are my comments you don't like them then That is your problem I guess
Absolute nonsense.
@@ReservoirPunk Nonsense indeed.
Hogwash
Brushy Bill Roberts was totally discredited. Way too many of Billy the Kids friends were there to see his body buried. Not ONE of them ever changed their story until their deaths
@@markjohnson4924 Jesus Silva straight up told his grandson it wasn't Billy that was killed. Said he signed that paper anyway.