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I think what Masters showed is that he could have been an incredible antagonist. A man everyone generally seems to agree has his heart in the right place, that just does as he wants - charismatic enough to take people in.
I think they chickened out a bit by only having characters who’ve been villainous in the past team up with Rose in Masters - there could have been more drama from seeing explicitly good characters work with him.
I agree that they chickened out on having good characters come to him aside from the technology nerds. They almost made it look like this would be the case when they showed Sycamore actually thinking about the idea that Rose may be somewhat right on the idea that the future needs to be saved now.
Also, Bede being completely absent in the Galar villain arc was the biggest sin imaginable. Huge missed opportunity to create more drama considering how much Rose meant to him. They either could have had him partner with Rose in the last round instead of Colress or Maxie, or they could have had him as the last representative of Leon's team instead of the random beauty NPC who completely humiliated herself by having her pokemon get one shot.
@@unofficialmeme5972she wasn’t totally random, she was a major member of team break, though not like that matters much at first glance since they don’t get unique models
ya like theres even an hr long vid I watched giving his character arc more detail and explains why he ended up that way
@gameb9oy I'm pretty sure that specific beauty wasn't a member of team break, they just have the same basic trainer class model
@@acoolcat.
It was that one, she had the Venusaur
I think he really had potential if they would have a) played up how obsessed he is with his status as "Galar's savior" a bit more or b) actually made the energy crisis threatening.
Yes, if we were given red herrings to his megalomaniacal personality, if the energy crisis was made to feel threatening to the player, and if the events of the Final Day either left a lasting impact on the world or recontextualized the world in the player's mind, then he would have been a great villain. But that's a lot the writers have gotten wrong.
Rose: Leon I need your help to solve this thousand year energy crisis immediately.
Leon: Chill bro, it's in a thousand years. Let me focus on the tournament and I'll help you after.
Rose: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! THIS IS THE MOST PRESSING ISSUE OF OUR LIFETIMES!
Great theme, but he definitely could've been utilized better. It honestly felt like his assistant was more of a villain than him! 😫
Oleana actually had like no development in the game though. Hence why I'm glad that Twilight Wings episode expanded on her nicely.
@@LaprasTrainerLiam98It’s weird that so many fans still think Oleana was in poverty or lived on the streets though. So many have been preaching that headcanon since SwSh just because she has a Trubbish and had some vague dialogue about Rose saving him and changing her image-when it was only just that. A headcanon.
But even after Twilight Wings came out, where it was revealed she was just a scientist and had a more geeky look with her Trubbish, people still insisted it was canon that she was homeless or suffering from poverty. I don’t get it. The headcanon is cool and all but it’s already been disproven.
@@komarunaegi7460 I know right?! But what can you expect from such a controversial fandom, am I right?
@@LaprasTrainerLiam98 Yeah, a lot of Pokemon fans kinda don't know how to read. Headcanons and fan theories are cool and I love a lot of them, including Rose saving her from poverty or Blue's Raticate dying, but so many people insist they're canon when they're not.
Heck, a lot of them often get the villains' goals wrong from each game even though a lot of time is spent telling you about them.
@@komarunaegi7460 Exactly. But then you got villains like Cyrus where, while we get what he wants to do, we don't fully know WHY he wants to do what he does. And keep in mind, I enjoy Cyrus in Diamond and Pearl.
the more interesting threat in swsh to me is macro cosmos as a whole. if you look closely, you can see them creeping in everywhere. half the companies in galar seem to be subsidiaries of them, and then they control the biggest sporting event in the region, even with some people saying they’ve rigged matches and bribed trainers before. they’re a really creepy look at corporate power if you look closely enough.
Oh totally and they're even worse without him! At least Rose has some sort of moral compass, even if it's always pointed at himself. Macro Cosmos has a stranglehold on the Galar economy
One thing I didn’t realize until after SV released was that they were trying (key word trying) to imply that Rose’s rush was partially spurred by him steadily losing control of Eternatus as it regained its power. Makes sense since the first incident in Hamerlock is an explosion in the power plant where Eternatus is kept, and then later on Leon has to stop wild Dynamax Pokémon that have started popping up outside of raid dens. When Leon turned Rose down to delay the finals match, Rose basically said “Screw it, if he won’t help with the problem I’ll make it his problem!” and overestimated Leon’s capabilities in the process.
What I don't get is that if that were the case, why not just take Leon there immediately to deal with it instead of meeting him elsewhere and explaining the situation in the vaguest way possible ("Leon, if you don't help me with this thing-" "What's the thing?" "The thing is the future of Galar. In 1000 years-" "Why do you need my help for something that will happen in 1000 years?" "Leon, you don't understand..." "You're right, I don't understand, but I'll help with whatever this is at any time except during the tournament." "...No, Leon, by then it'll be too late...").
Like, come on Rose, you could have been a little more direct. Just saying "I have a strong Pokemon, would you like to see it?" would have made Leon help immediately.
I think the biggest wasted opportunity was the climax. Climbing the tower should've lead to Chairman Rose and the Eternatus battle in the same sitting.
I think a big issue with a lot of Pokémon stories is that the world is a utopia, with futuristic tech, ambiguous/beneovolent governments/authorities, and people and nature/Pokémon living in harmony. We almost never see the actual issues the villains talk about, or they're immediately discredited;
- Hoenn seems to have a good balance of water and land, and Team Magma/Aqua's plans are just insane from a basic logic sense as well.
-Team Plasma has no legs to stand on since we never see any abuse of Pokémon and we already know Pokémon love to battle and be with people through years of experience with these games (and there's no reveal that Pokéballs make them complacent or something like that to give them a point), plus their whole ideals are derailed by regular Team Rocket-esque shenanigans and Ghetsis's insanity.
- Kalos is way too beautiful for Lysandre to need to remake it in his own image or whatever (and Sinnoh's not that bad either, wtf Cyrus?)
- We never get to see much of Alola's alien invasion or poverty issues beyond Po Town and the Abandoned Supermarket (though this is admittedly a better case of showing why the villains exist, since we actually get to SEE poverty)
- Galar has NO climate or energy issues as said in the video, and preparing 2000 years ahead for any crisis is just insane.
- We never get to see any bullying or the old terrible school staff with Team Star in Paldea (not to mention they ACT like bullies themselves with the war machines, blockades and territories, and mean recruiters for what's effectively a bullying support group.)
If Game Freak was just willing to actually dirty their precious world up a bit and SHOW IT'S PROBLEMS, these villains would be a lot more effective and memorable.
Star never acted like bullies. They backed off when you told them to stop pressuring Penny, and that was the extent of it. Otherwise they kept to themselves and never bothered anybody.
Cyrus's plans make perfect sense once you understand his backstory. It isn't about the region. It's about his upbringing. He was raised to be the perfect student, under so much pressure and with his mental strain going ignored that when he finally snapped, he concluded that emotions were the cause of all suffering, and the universe would be better off without that.
- Team Plasma's entire thing so that they lied about their intentions to disarm the people so they could take over the region by force with little resistance, lmao. Thats why in B2W2 there are two factions between them.
- I can't speak for Kalos much, but iirc, during early game development, Lysandre was meant to be an alien, so thats probably important to his motivation. (Also Ghetsis doesn't want to erase/destroy anything, just remake reality without emotions)
- You don't see this because it happens during the climax, and you take care of the loose ends during the post game (during the looker segments).
-Galar does have climate issues, Galarian Corsola's Dex entry literally states that it died out due to climate reasons.
- The focus of team star wasn't the bullies or why they felt the need to make it, since that's probably obvious. The point was that in their current state, they were the bullies. The climax of the team star story is Penny asking you to go and beat them so they call off team star so they don't cause anymore trouble.
A lot of this list seems uninformed/untrue.
@@PoiyoLmao I've heard the "alien" story for XY before but is there an official source?
Star didn't bully anyone. They were a bit aggressive towards Penny but they backed off pretty easily.
@@BJGvideos My other comment is gone, so I'll just tell you the name of the website I found. Google "XY Beta Story" and go to Medium, as thats where I read it first (It'll be titled 'The XY Files')
Also yeah, Team Star didn't really bully anyone in game. The point is that they aren't meant to be sympathetic, they're meant to be misguided kids who lost sight of what their original goal was. Thats why Penny asks you to get them to stop, because talking to them wasn't gonna work.
I love in EX the characters point out that Rose's "energy plan" never made sense.
Rose is a twist villain who you can see coming a mile away but also feels tacked on at the same time. Everything about him is a good idea on paper, but the issue with the whole story was the pacing. It's a scarce drip feed of subtle hints for 90% of the plot, and then suddenly everything is happening at the very end. Barely any time for explanation or exploration, so it ends up feeling thrown together.
I think this story absolutely would have benefitted from sacrificing the twist for the sake of adding in more buildup, like a backstory or an exploration of Rose's thoughts and conflict. That's kind of a common flaw with stories that aim to surprise you over anything else. Sometimes it's better if there's no surprise as long as it makes the pacing better. Idk.
Kid Rose looks like he belongs to Attack on Titan
Amazing video, I never realized the theme of the game was legacy but that totally makes sense.
100% agree that showing an energy crisis has actually started in Galar was needed. They could have shown Chairman Rose in some places along the journey explaining his worries about the future, like Galarian Weezing being used to try and purify air outside Motostoke, or Cursola on the water route affected by pollution. We would then built the idea that Rose feels extreem action is the only choice left and it wouldnt have felt as sudden. Lysandre for example talks about his worries about overpopulation a few times in Kalos so we know why he is motivated beforehand.
y’know, the similarities you mentioned between the plot of swsh and the current climate crisis just made me more upset about what little we got from Rose in the games. i think Rose is an interesting character, and i didn’t know how much other media like journey’s elaborated on his character motivations, but the games just did such a poor job of framing his motivations as something serious that (at best) he comes off like a bad faith reflection of climate activists. it’s like the initial portrayal of al gore with manbearpig from south park, someone paranoid over a danger that apparently no one else can see
To be perfectly blunt, climate activists don't need others to show them as bad faith reflections. They're perfectly capable of doing that to themselves already.
Also, to be honest given what is known about the climate and the data backing it up, what crisis? The climate by its very nature is _always_ in flux, cycling between heating and cooling that directly correlates with increases and decreases in the energy output of the Sun. If anything, geologically-speaking we're barely out of the very tail end of the last Ice Age.
@@SockieTheSockPuppet I think thats a really bad argument when there's so much evidence that points to conditions getting worse over time due to climate change. Like, aside from the easiest example of the arctic slowly being melted down faster every year, what about the record high temperatures the planet has been hitting in recent years? The impact of the climate causing a much larger amount of wildfires due to the decreased amount of rain? Or the mass fish death near Texas a while back? All of these are undeniably results of climate change. These kind of events didn't just happen randomly or were just freak accidents that took people by surprise, especially in the past few years. There's too much evidence for it to be. We might still be in the Ice Age geologically, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible for us to heat the planet to such a degree.
@@PoiyoLmao Actual evidence based upon decades of observation is a bad argument? How?
@@PoiyoLmao Not even Krakatoa's eruption caused enough pollution to permanently change the climate. Why do we keep having this weird negative arrogance in believing that we can control the functions of the very planet that our entire history of a species is barely a blip of?
@@SockieTheSockPuppet Because there's data backing up the idea that climate change DOES exist and is impacting us very significantly. Why do you think more and more people are complaining about the heat now? Small climate fluctuations wouldn't prompt that kind of reaction en masse.
Rose was an interesting character and it feels like the game had more planned for him. Or at least whoever wrote him had more planned. He genuinely believes that his plan is going to save Galar, from a threat he firmly believes is pressing and urgent. Is he correct in either of these assessments? Who knows. We know Eternatus would be a threat when it awakens, but to intentionally awaken it in order to defeat it, rather than to find a way to neutralize that threat as it slumbers, why would he do that?
Answer is that, for all his charity, for all his genuine concern and love for Galar, he's also a rampaging egomaniac. Not only does Galar have to be saved, he has to be the one who gets the credit for it. That's why the "one day" mattered to him and why he blamed Leon for forcing his hand. Leon was Rose's chosen champion, Rose's golden boy, Rose's noble knight. And Leon was in a tournament he could /lose/. After "one more day", Leon might not be champion any more. And Rose couldn't have that. It didn't suit his image of /his/ hero coming to the rescue.
Rose has a very romantic view of the world. Not as in the sense of a romantic relationship, but in the sense of a larger than life story with passionate emotions. (Compare this to the "romantic dream" of Seifer Almasy in Final Fantasy 8 who's so caught up in fantasy that he basically sells his soul to an evil sorceress because he's so desperate to play the bold knight to someone. Seifer and Rose would get along well...oddly it would probably be a beneficial relationship for them both). Rose wants to live out a fantasy story. He wants to be the brilliant king with his gallant knight at hand, there to slay the dragon.
Heck he even says so, doesn't he? I looked up his dialogue:
"The Champion came to aid me, even at the cost of abandoning the match. Indeed, just like a knight in shining armor coming to rescue a princess from a dragon!"
To him, that's exactly what's happening because he's so caught up in his egotistical daydream that he drags everyone else into it.
I also got the impression...maybe the game had a different ending for him in mind. His last scene is very similar in staging and framework to Lysandre's last scene, and the last few things he says to you are very fatalistic:
"I do tend to ramble on, I know. I love to make speeches. But I think I can stop talking now."
And repeated lines about telling you to go to Leon
That combined with how we're told the room he's in is in imminent danger of collapse, and how we only find out that he turned himself in in some easily missed dialogue, makes me wonder if he wasn't supposed to die in some early draft of the story. Even if not, it still gives the inpression that he doesn't care about his own survival at any rate. If anything, to die there would insure that his name would always be remembered, wouldn't it?
Oh yeah and to address the thumbnail, biggest downgrade was Lusamine to Lusamine. What they did to her in Ultra was unforgivable.
I think for me it just felt like there was no real buildup to Rose in the games, he just all of a sudden brings about the darkest day and you don't really have much else to do other than beat him and catch Eternatus. This could very well be nostalgia talking, but I feel like in sun and moon, lusamine had so much more buildup because instead of just fighting her right away, you had to get through a bunch of aether foundation employees and deal with faba's deception and then she escapes into an ultra wormhole and you have to go to poni island and into the ultra wormhole there just to fight her again. It just felt more exciting whereas with Rose you literally just had to get the sword and shield, fight a couple grunts and then defeat him, I think if he had just unleashed the darkest day right when leon was missing and it was right after the fight with oleana instead of waiting till right before the final match, the excitement would have been more consistent
Pokemon Sword was actually my first Pokemon game ever, and I fell so in love with it that I've now been playing every other main series game, as well as Masters EX every day (for about 2 years now). The impression I got as a once outsider of this series and seeing Chairman Rose was that he wasn't bad...like, at all. He was just a guy who cared about the future of his people and wanted to protect that. His methods were just a little messed up. I never saw any of the other Pokemon villains before that, so I was actually pretty shocked at how this was portrayed. I don't think I've ever played a game where the main villain was just so casual and...not evil. Honestly the mystique and commanding nature of Oleana led me to believe since the very beginning that she was pulling the strings, and that she would come out as the ultimate villain in the plot. Basically forcing Rose to do things her way. But I was completely wrong about that. Regardless, Rose (and Sword itself) have gone on to become some of my favorite pieces of fictional media. Maybe it's because I was so new to Pokemon that it all felt so magical to me at the time. Either way, since playing the older games now I see where people get their gripes with Rose. All the other villains were so much more evil. But I dunno, I kinda like that about Rose. He's like one of the few villains in the series that I don't feel any animosity towards. I just kinda wish he saw things differently, because at his core he's just a nice guy.
I feel like the biggest problem is that I was never convinced he wasn’t evil. (Whoa! The CEO is evil? In a children’s property?) I feel like it could’ve been more interesting if his assistant was the true antagonist and was effectively using Rose as a puppet.
What I thought they were going to do was have his assistant be evil on his behalf.
Like, I thought that Rose would have constantly made those ominous references to bad things and his worries, and his assistant would be like "Hmm. Rose keeps mentioning The Darkest Day. I should do that to make my boss really happy," then doing everything behind his back to impress him.
In a children's property? They're evil IRL too dude
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69yea sure
@@froginabucket7294 I guess all those polluted rivers happened magically
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 I guess everything you own just appeared out of nowhere
Masters is another good example of showing another side to a villain, and honestly making them better. Chairman rose is a rich, not exactly whiney, but impatient fellow, someone who views the future as something closer than we think, really shows off his Longtermism.
He wants what's best for everyone, but also see's that said people as dragging their feet to ultimately solve the worlds issues, something that doesn't just happen over night. Rose isn't the best villain, because he really isn't one, he wants to help, and isn't a truly bad guy, he even turns himself in because he knows he did something bad, and doesn't try to run or escape, despite being rich enough to probably find a way out.
Even then, there's only so much one person's money can do. He needs others to pay attention to the issues, and feels like he's the only one who can see those issues at all.
@@BJGvideos which is exactly why I love masters story so much. He realizes hes not alone, he views the future as something he has to deal with, since no one else will, but he isnt exactly right. Masters did an excellent job of portraying Rose, hes an even better character in Masters than he was in Main series
his battle theme slaps but like he kinda comes outta nowhere as a villian with little to no build up
No matter who, villains in pokeon are some of my favorite parks of the franchise, so its always nice to see people appreciate them, even the more lackluster ones like Rose
On paper he’s a great idea but it’s just really nonsensical in the game. I think I would have had it so the collapse of energy in galar is imminent and soon the power spots will disappear, they could also show the result of other energy sources damaging the environment, like Galarian Corsola or Weezing being themed around it. Have Rose be covering all of this up and trying to hold the facade together, and near the end of the game Oleana has to personally interrupt the champion match to ask leon for help to stop him from awakening eternatus. Feel like that could have been more impactful, because in the game he feels like an impatient child.
He's a bad villain in the sense that he wasn't a bad guy lol.
----
He was confident in Leon's skills so brought about an event that would regardlesss happen in the future INTO the now so that it may be solved NOW rather than face it on destiny's uncertain terms
Honestly the cancelled concept where the League was secretly fixing Leon's matches to prop him up as the ultimate champion for profit was more interesting than what we got. Rose as presented is nothing more than a man who can be told that yes what he's doing could be beneficial if it goes well and is worth trying but this is 1000 years off so he can afford to wait 12 hours for Leon's full attention while he finishes his obligation to the Pokemon League season that Rose owns.
Rose is emblematic of Sword and Shield as a whole. He's got a solid concept buried in there but he's incredibly half-baked and needed some more time in the oven to become something more realized. The anime got that extra time in the oven for him.
Dang if that thumbnail ain't the truth though.
Rose's major issue is that Galar's whole thing with industry and 'Mons like Cursola, plus Dynamax Energy being a kind of Poison, implies that they were going for a climate change metaphor. Which would make immediate action FAR more understandable, seriously just chop off a few zeros. Maybe the disaster's in fifty years. Bam.
Yeah, make the whole plot much more urgent, and then the story would seen a little stronger than it was.
I also think that team yell doesn't hold up the early to mid game story well either, so for the whole game there is just a meandering pace through the story. It feels like team yell are just those dumb npc obstacles like the raging touros and such, but as the evil team, which in my opinion doesn't work well, as it fails to motivate the player to invest in them, and so for the majority of the game is just going for the badges.
None of the villains really get fleshed out at all in the main series
I hope we see a video like this on Guzma
Maybe if they made the Darkest Day happen after the tournament then we wouldn't mind helping Chairman Rose with the energy problem, though maybe reduce the amount of time it would take the power problem from 1,000 years to maybe less than a year or a couple weeks then it would feel more urgent.
I’d even say a century would be fine. Still has Rose be overly concerned about the issue, but make it something that feels like they could live to see the consequences of if they don’t act
I genuinely just don't understand why Rose couldn't have waited. He could have done what he did at any time, so why did he specifically choose the most inconvenient time for Leon when he was willing to help him?
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 sometimes even the most noble have their impatient moments
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 He couldn't wait because he needed to be the hero. Leon could LOSE, and then Rose's chosen knight wouldn't be the star of the show any more.
Rose not wanting to wait one single day to execute is plan might go against his longtermism idea of wanting to save an unwritten future, sure, but I feel like him hardpressing on rushing things through shows a massive character flaw on purpose to the point where he's not meant to be sympathized over. If anything he has a saviour complex and Leon being more worried about the final match then his chairman's plan just goes to show that Rose acted on a pretense of rebellion against Leon, because he doesn't like that the one he raised and sponsored is taking power and control from him, not wanting his influence to dictate what he wanted and needed at the time. If anything we see a microcosm of this via Bede's actions. Rose erroneously believes he's the only one who can fix things, seeing nothing but gloom, but being a big corporate person does make people fall under his facade and charisma like Oleana did. The fact that Rose leads over a company and not a labelled evil team shows how much he doesn't see this misguided planning as nothing more then business. He wants recognition, whatever the cost, being that the present day of his region or the people around him who were willing to support his desires. The fact that the Wishing Stars are Eternatus's scales is actually brilliant because they do power up Pokémon with energy but they come from someone inherintly poisonous. Rose's perception of the world is toxic, and he believes to be the cure, henceforth using Steel Types (and giving Bede Psychic ones to tame the venomous dragon). He's so prideful that he doesn't even go for the simpler route of using the Crown Tundra Regis (Eleki's energy + Drago's crystals) for his Power Plant because he didn't wanted any connection or help from Peony. Just my 2 cents tho.
Oh yeah, he’s definitely got that kind of savior complex. I think too that him being someone usually seen as good by everyone in the Galarian Region that they’re able to do that angle just a bit better than some other villains, because he literally has everyone treating him like that. I have no doubt he does care about people, but still kind of makes things feel a bit weird and almost disingenuous. Like, take Twilight Wings into consideration with how he visits the children’s hospital. Just interesting. 🤔
@@GatorEX If anything that special does portray a significant side of him. He deeply cares about the future and the next generations (which can't happen without kids) but he was so delusional over being able to control all things that he might've believed he could've contained the Darkest Day (similar to how Lysandre fired the Ultimate Weapon to make a beautiful world, thinking that Team Flare would be selectively spared of its aftermath as if they were chosen ones). If anything Rose beats Lysandre on that PR department, Lysandre only had a Café where he vaguely and duviously talks with Diantha and made the Holo Caster. The whole story of SwSh is about the next generation and the passing of the torch: Leon, Magnolia, Opal and Piers to Player, Sonia (Hop), Bede and Marnie... even more emphasized in DLC via Klara/Avery getting Gyms as well as Mustard and Peony both being fathers. The theme of legacy and succession is highly present, fitting for a region that has ties with sports and royalty. If anything Rose's main issue is that all of his intrincasies are implied subtext someone has to overanalyse to make sense of it because the dialogue is contradictory, I suppose.
@@GatorEXOh totally. He truly wants to save Galar from what he sees as a legitimate and pressing issue, but HE needs to be the one to do it because he's got a pathological need to be the hero.
I don't agree with people who say his motivations don't make sense, I believe he wasn't involved enough in the plot, like he was tacked on at the end. Most main antagonists in Pokémon have minions obstructing your progression so their pressence is known, a quality Chaiman Rose doesn't have, maybe his plot involving eternatus could have been the focus of a hypothetical second half of the game after the league match.
Yes, but I really like his design and goals, it just wasn't flashed out at all and it ended up really shallow.
Honestly the biggest downgrade between pokemon games regarding the villains was probably from Black 2 & White 2 to X & Y, but the most insulting was from Sun & Moon to Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. Seriously, Ultra Necrozma was a good villain, but why did they think it made any logical sense to halfheartedly alter Lusamine’s character like that anyway?
Lusamine was butchered horribly in the Ultra games by making her scared of ultra beasts in comparison to her unhealthy obsession to the point where she considers them better children than her actual children. Not to mention all of Alola forgives her super easily despite her collaboration with criminals and her motives to force ultra beasts around, which realistically would destroy the Aether Foundation's reputation with a scandal this big. And regarding Ultra Necrozma, I thought it was seriously stupid how easily forgiving the people of Ultra Space were of Necrozma's crimes that sent mankind into an age of literal darkness. It's stupidly absurd how happily ever after the ultra games are treated despite how unforgivable its antagonists are envisioned and to the point where you can't really see them being redeemed in a realistic manner.
They didn’t alter her it was a different universe
Also they wanted to make her closer to her portrayal in the anime
@@unofficialmeme5972 They didn’t alter her it was a different universe
Also they wanted to make her closer to her portrayal in the anime
@@unofficialmeme5972nothing was butchered both games coexist
It’s not a sequel it’s an AU
both games coexist
It’s not rocket science
nothing was butchered both games coexist
It’s not a sequel it’s an AU
both games coexist
It’s not rocket science
GatorEX, I love your discussion of the themes in the Galar games! Any chance you’re making videos where you discuss the themes that are explored in other generations?
Bro literally said hey I am worried about the power in 200 years so I need to summon a poison dragon to keep it running and I am going to ignore the power source of a Pokémon regilike (I do not know how to spell it) that can power the entire galar region
Technically, he says next millennium, so he’s thinking about like a thousand years in the future 💀
Yeah I had a hard time to understand Rose's objectives when everyone in Galar seemed to prosper and there wasn't a hint of the power for Galar to extinguish. After the games when I watched the episode that explains a little about his past I had a slightly better understanding of his needs to look for a source of energy that doesn't endanger as many lives it also ties into the early game where you run into Sonia and on some hills in the background you see a factory that processes ores dug up from the mines and are converted into energy for all of Galar. Now if it were me and I'm just spit balling here, maybe go catch Regieleki as it's entry is literally stating it could power cities, just power up some dynamax size batteries for every city or something lol.
Great video GatorEX, I've only noticed it now in your outro not that it bothers me to be honest but I found it kinda funny. My Username is spelt "KozmoZer0" on your shoutouts when it's spelt with an "s" but it's fine, it actually reminds me of my Kozmo deck I love to use Irl 😄
Not related to the video, but Oleana has THE most underrated battle theme in the entire series imo.
I'd say the Aether Foundation in Sun & Moon specifically, did the best job.
I think watching another mega billionaire throw stupid ideas around because he's too rich to be stopped has retroactively redeemed Rose a bit.
Which character is that??
@@DrawciaGleam02 I think he's referring to Elon Musk.
How i understand him is he's worried about the future of the region becuase eternatus brings like a apocalyps so he summoned it much earlier to get rid of it putting all his fate and everyones life on Leon since he's the strongest in the region
Well that makes perfect sense
Putting it that way :)
As much as i agree that putting the energy crysis earlier or during the gameplay of Pokemon S&S, i can respect him for wanting to do something about it in the moment, even if said crysis is a thousand years in the future
Hes using the chance and opportunity to fix a future problem at that moment, because what if the key to fix said energy problem would to dissapear when its most necessary
I believe Rose's motivation and arc is a clear commentary of our current reality. That by not doing nothing to fix the problems of the past, our future is in jeoparty
(...yeah, i tend to talk TALK, like a lot 😂)
chairman rose could’ve made a really good villain
i came up with an idea a while ago: chairman rose finds young leon and trains him with the intention of ensuring he becomes champion, thinking he would make a perfect icon for the galar region. To ensure Leon always wins, chairman rose lies, cheats and manipulates so that Leon stays “the unbeatable champion”. Leon is uncomfortable with Rose doing that but always dreamed of success and applause: his outfit being pretty ridiculous (lmao) and a child’s idealised version of a champion’s outfit, because the role of champion that he dreamed of is an actual role. his outfit shows he never got to grow up because rose controlled his persona as champion and no one knows him as anything else. didn’t think much about eternatus but idk maybe he wanted to summon eternatus so leon could capture it and be victorious again after tourists and fans started to lose interest in leon over the years, or something. I also think it would make becoming the champion yourself as the player be more special as you are _literally_ not meant to win, no one is
just an idea tho, i don’t really care for rose that much i more want leon to have more development
Woah I was so surprised to see the cards from Star Wars Destiny in this video!
There's a saying in Hebrew that goes: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
Blinded by his will to do good, Chairman Rose has become somewhat morally gray - the "the end justifies the means" kind of approach
I’m still sad that swsh turned out the way it did. 😢
I feel like if they just changed some things they could have been hidden gems. Almost like Gen 5 but maybe not as much.
Gen 5 wasn't a hidden gem it was wildly popular. Don't fall for the lies that it was a scrappy underdog for years. People loved it immediately
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who likes and respects Rose as a villain
He's blinded about being "the savior" and build up his legacy, so future geneartions can be grateful about what he did, besides endangering his present
To me it would have made way more sense if Chairman Rose was a character from said future where the energy crisis occurred. I mean time travel is pretty common in the Pokémon world considering in legends we had characters travel to the past so the future seems likely and it would be a great hint for scarlet and violet. I would show some flashbacks of the crisis in the future so it’s more present for us. Or chairman Rose could have had a vision from the future probably by some type of physic Pokémon. Either way would make his motivations have way more sense in my opinion.
He was pretty nice, you just have to go realy out of your way to actually learn his motivations and see see build up to his plan, so I understand why people would think he's under developed or rushed
Really enjoyed this video!
He had potential but his entrie plan was built upon the point that he could not wait literally one day for the champion match to be over for Leon to help him solve a problem that would happen 1000 years in the future
7:08 I f-ing love Giovanni, Pokémon Masters helped with that and a Video Lockstin did on team rocket boosted my love for the character even more.
He's so interesting, and with his dialogue in Masters I could see where he's coming from without agreeing 😅
He was one of the characters in Pokémon Masters that made me go "damn I wish I could actually respond right now"
Get out of here main character get me in there 😂😂😂😂
I mean I can kinda understand Rose (to an extent) because yeah someone else in the future could take care of the energy crisis... but what if they don't ? What if nobody acts ?
Because knowing humans, they could very well do nothing useful about that energy crisis and act like its not there (kinda like we do with climate change). So Rose thinks he has to do it just in case.
At least the Rose incident will be a part of history that'll allow the people of the future to acknowledge the existence of the energy crisis and to actually do something about it.
Kind of he felt rushed or just a second thought in his motive but him trying to use eternatus the Pokémon that caused something that would cause an apocalypse for power and hopes he can control it which is dumbass 101
he also seems like he still have several years ahead of him so it seemed like he was rushing things too much. say if he was diagnosed with some sort of chronic disease that could end up killing him in a year, then that would also create some sense of urgency for him
I really enjoyed this look into his character.
and what the anime did with it, a far more relatable character in that; having that in the game would've put him above magma and aqua
The thousand years thing sounds like something that a psychic would predict.
Nah he’s really unique he went for something different and I respect that
Also darkest day lore goes hard
A square wheel is also unique.
love all that u said at the end
I honestly wish Oleana was the villain, mainly because she was more of a villain than chairman Rose was and she seemed more useful.
But then again, we’d get Lusamine 2.0 (the S/M version) instead of any variety of villains 🤔.
How would that be Lusamine 2.0? If anyone is a followup to Lusamine it's Sada and Turo
@@BJGvideos I said the Sun & Moon version 😓
good video i feel like everyone only talks abt the bad with rose
I wouldn't have much issue with Rose if there were any hints that he were a villain. He had a setup that was a weird combination of Lysandre and Lusamine, but handled in the complete opposite way. Lysandre is also a businessman that turned out to be a villain, with good intentions at the start that went too far. Lusamine is also the president of a company who's goals are literally to keep Pokémon safe, but Lusamine's personal interests (and probably some mental illness) got in the way to where she put strangers and even her family in danger with her extreme methods to stop Ultra Beasts or Necrozma depending on the game. Lysandre and Lusamine, however, had hints of their villainy before the climax. Rose only had one moment of this, and it was basically right before the tournament he will interupt.
I feel like if Rose is a follow to anybody it's the Hoenn villains.
Though he does have a bit of Lysandre to him, especially in how the final battle is staged.
I like Rose a lot, I think they should have probably pushed some sort of a hero complex on him where he needs to solidify a legacy for himself, I think if he wanted to be remembered as a hero, it'd tie in really nicely with the thought that Zacian and Zamazenta were heroes that were forgotten (and ironically help thwart his plan) and also explain why he was so eager to get Leon on board and not delay his plan at all. What better way to be remembered than fostering Galars unbeatable champion, who would go on to capture a pokemon capable of providing infinite power, and then developing a perfectly utopian Galar region? If he did delay his plan, there's a chance that Leon wouldn't have been the champion anymore, and even if it means whoever beat Leon was stronger, that legacy of being the person who fostered the champion isn't there anymore.
Chairman Rose is like British Pegasus from Yu-Gi-Oh in my opinion
Rose had a lot of potential, but he was so mishandled that it went to waste. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an earlier draft of SwSh that got overhauled and Rose didn’t get to be fleshed out.
He is a really good sync pair in masters.
He's not a badly written character. He's someone who's so paranoid about the safety of the future. He's someone that does care about the people and the region. And he's literally willing to do whatever it takes to protect the region. Going as far as to unleash the darkest day again. And the fact that we see in his facial expressions during the battle with him that he knows what he's doing is wrong, along with him applauding with a smile at us after the battle shows us just how great a job GF did at giving Rose his character. He believes that he will be the one to save the region by awakening Eternatus. Heck, his battle lyrics sound like they cheering "Go Rose, save everyone!" in Latin. And I know people that dunk on him for his battle being "to easy", to which I say either A): Spammed a Fire Type Mon/Attacks with an overpowered Mon, or B): Ignore the fact that he literally says after the battle that he 'Hasn't felt the thrill of battle for a long time.' Telling us that he's a bit rusty at battling, and he's just glad to have been able to experience an amazing battle once again in his life. And finally, the fact that he willingly turns himself in, instead of running away like a coward, like so many other villains in the series really made me appreciate him even more. Plus, his plan actually worked since the amount of Watts from Dens you get after beating Eternatus actually go up a ton, showing us that the region has been saved from the global warmin- I mean energy crisis. Now, what he did wasn't the right way to go about it, but it still worked in the end. Like I said, willing to do whatever it took to make it happen. And these are just a few reasons I'll always appreciate one of Pokemon's most misunderstood characters. ✌️😁
No no, it is bad writing just by virtue of how far away the problem is. If it were closer, like a few months or years, his desperation would make sense. As it is, though, he just comes across as a colossal dumbass.
So, you said his backstory about his father die in mine make him seek other energy source, so no one will have the same fate as his father.. But he doesnt consider the consequence of obtaining this "alternative energy" by releasing eternatus will have bigger impact and sacrifice more life than just someone die in mine?
Chairman Rose was given the excuse of buying into Swordwald and Shielbert's lies of them being capable of beating Eternatus in the manga.
As for mainline!Rose, he actually got to return in Pokemon Masters, where I think he was much better. He hasn't given up his goals of solving the future energy crisis, but this time his plan simply amounted to gathering energy by using the friend orbs.
Given the orbs were previously shown to be capable of making Mewtwo mega-evolve and also remain loyal to Team Rocket, it's easy to see where he's coming from. The drawbacks this time around would also be much smaller in scale- the region would be unable to experience Pokemon battles to the fullest for a while.
It's telling that unlike previous villain arcs you're not fighting his organization, instead being regular trainers that sympathize with Rose. This time the flaws in his plan are that he's working his researchers so hard for the needs of the many that they can't reach their full potential (and by extension the friend orbs can't either) and the fact that he resorted to shady backers that turned out to be Team Rocket.
Bro just want infinite electricity 🗿
I think Rose had a lot of potential but the writing just didn't follow through in the end. I really like his character and his involvement throughout the game, they just didn't quite stick the landing. It also doesn't help the his predecessor was Lusamine who is an excellent take on a non-traditional villian that meant well, and was also followed up by Volo who showed you how to really back stab someone at the end of the game lol.
Yes he is for a simple reason: THEY FAILED TO EXPLAIN ROSE'S MOTIVES. In fact, it all seems FORCED. Leon AGREED to help them as soon as the tournament ended, meaning all his acts at the end WERE FOR NOTHING. You know things are bad when a FANFIC SERIE with a talking Wooloo can give you a better motivation (Talk about people putting their lives in danger to have electricity, like his father the founder of Macrocosmos). It doesn't even have to be deaths, just severe injuries they have. Also, the energetic crisis has another problem: ELECTRIC TYPE POKÉMON, but that could be justified by PETA logic of not letting them suffer.
Sometimes too much sublety could make your plot feel like non-existant because it is, you cannot have your entire plot failing just because you forgot to read 1 word. Even if you think they're hypocrites team Plasma works because everything points to the same direction: THEY'RE A CULT and are not trustworthy, with N feeling a bit contradictory and close-minded in his thinking and Ghetsis being very manipulative. In Macrocosmos's case we just don't know how rose thinks and it makes it not believable AS A CHARACTER.
He should've popped up in the Crown Tundra DLC looking for both the new Regis and their infinite power and Calyrex considering it can grow forests and restore nature.
After watching this video, I appreciate the way he was written a lot more. People are so worried about this whole barely an inconvenience at the current moment climate change thing that they are willing to rush the process now to fix something that will maybe have a noticable effect on the distant future, instead of taking the time to find a meaningful solution that doesn't cripple economies and uproot everyone's life right now. Chairman rose is the perfect analogy to the climate doomsdayers of today who thinks the world will explode if we don't do something this instant. You can't rush fixing any problems, sometimes things require patience and time and consideration for others to solve.
This is the equivalent of a leader of a big environmentalist organization interrupting the superbowl and saying he will nuke all of America to give it more nuclear energy
The thing about Rose is the 1000 year timeframe issue. It's too big. It's so big that people don't care and immediately question it. If the energy crisis was say only 20-30 years from now, it'd make his motives A LOT more believable and understandable. He's still looking to the future but not so far off that it makes him look like a loon ranting off like an idiot.
I personally think Rose is a acceptable villain in the regard that it shows us that a "bad guy" is not always evil and antagonistic actions could be triggered by pretty much anything
Game Freak showed us mutiple types of villainy troughout the pokemon games and Chairman Rose is just the type that is bad by wanting to do the good and help the world by just taking the wrong decisions
like with Lusamine we saw the villainy that could come with pure obssession or Team Star that showed us that villains may be villains only on the surface
I personally think that it is good to have these many types of villain istead of Giovanni/Ghetsis like villains every game
it keeps some kind of realistic marge with real villains
I personally didn't mind Rose as a villain, I would love videos on the other villains from Pokemon.
A rushed villain is a forever bad villain.
Short answer: Yes
6:56 Review/Analysis videos are predigested entertainment I consume
I literally thought Oleana was going to be the real villain, in charge of a criminal organization that wasn't a traditional Team, maniplulating Chairman Rose from behind the scenes; I mean, just look at her design!
Chairman Rose was an impatient, stupid man who willingly read and chose to ignore historical accounts of the world ending threat that was Eternatus, and yet, still had the gall to be all Surprised Pikachu, about the consequences of his actions. Like, not only was the energy crisis projected to happen in, what, 100 years?, but there have been several Pokedex entries that talked about sustainability, especially in relation to energy sources!
There's nothing you can tell me that would convince me that Chairman Rose was a perfect fit for a villain - that title should have gone to Oleana, alone, especially because of her design. Just think about it, she sends the good natured, but bumbling Chairman on an adventute spurred by slippery slopes, disinformation, and false time pressures, while she convinces the board to oust Rose, taking over his position, where she is then free to manipulate the media as she pleases (for what, Idk, probably doing something related to toxic sportscultures, keeping a firm grasp on star athletes and milking them dry, or in this case, Champions, you know, typical exploitation stuff, which actually would've been a good spin, making the goal of being a Champion not as glamorous, as previous games and tv shows made it out to be)
If they wanted environmentalism and energy sources to be one of the ovearching themes of the story, then they should've spent more time talking about much juice the big stadiums need just for one entire day, or spend more time talking about the inequities Marnie and Piers' hometown faced
The only way I could ever see Chairman Rose be a good villain is if the Sword and Shield games got a Pokemon Adventures adaptation, where lots of adults like the Kantonian Elite 4 get turned into horrible villains (haven't kept up with the manga in a long time, so who knows, they probably do have an adaptation already)
It did get that arc and I think it just ended. Rose was much the same as in the game.
What your thoughts on MangaKamen's idea of how to fix Chainman Rose's plan?(He is a TH-cam)
I think something that could fix Rose’s arc is if it’s established that Eternatus can only be awakened during a short window once every century or something, so Chairman Rose has to choose between making a rash decision he might not be prepared to handle or do his best to ensure the next generation can succeed, it would add an interesting contradiction to his character: he cares about people in the future more than people in the past or present, but he also a warped sense of paternalism that prevents him from seeing those who come after him from stepping to address the issues of the world.
That would be a more interesting tragic flaw then just impatience.
I really wish Rose had just been a super evil villain. He was the boss of a company that basically owned all of Galar, and there could have easily been some corrupt nefarious goal he was slowly pursuing. Instead he was just a fanatic who wanted to catch the legendary Pokemon for a stupid (yet "benevolent") reason. His role as the company boss was incidental to his actions and goals.
Another problem is the number that they wrote 1000 years ago, dude, it is a problem for 2 dozen generations after him and I am being generous with the estimate, how to fix it easily, remove a zero from the number, making it 100 years with that, his motivation is more reasonable with others thinking about the present while concentrating on the future but losing perspective of the now going very well with the theme of the game together with the points you said.
I think it should be emphasized that Rose a real life moral philosophy called Longtermism, which is very much common among rich business man (like Eilon Musk), where it is believed that (a) people who are yet to be born are as (if not more) important than people who are currently alive and (b) that humanity's only motivation should be to avoid extinction (more moderate views would be to stop the ruin of civilization, such as the effects of Climate Change, but at the extreme it means only things from which humanity can't recover, such as asteroid). This is why such people are interested in things such as Climate Change adaption or trying to make colonies outside of Earth/below the surface/things like that. It may sound weird and detached, but that's exactly what Rose represents in the story- a detached, elitist person who believe that as they hold all of the money and all of the power, it is also their duty to stop a cataclysm that will happen in a millennium from now, even at the cost of some damage happening to the people currently alive. Basically, in the games Pokemon criticize this moral philosophy by showing its fault, so I can't say that Rose is not well written because if he actually represents what he means to represent. The Philosophy Tube channel actually have a good analysis of this concept.
When has Musk ever thought about the future at all
I felt that the story overall was too thin to support such an ubrupt heel turn for the chairman. It was like , well that just... anyway, kinda of thing.
I think that Rose does have some villainous qualities in that he tends to be controlling and wants things done his way or no way simply because he’s a company president and chairman of the Pokemon League. That’s shown with how it’s implied that he and Piers don’t get along because they have differing view on Dynamaxing. And let’s not forget his demeanor to Nessa in TW.
I’m actually writing a fanfic on SWSH and that’s one part I really try to play up: that this is a man who, at one point, did genuinely care about Galar’s future. But along the way became consumed with completing his endgame through power and ego that he’s willing to sacrifice pretty much anything to make that happen; believing that he can make this Eternatus plan work no matter what anyone says.
"name a bigger downgrade"
Team Plasma -> Team Flare -> Team Skull -> Team Yell
Sadly we didn't get Pokemon Gun 😢, and don't even say Pokemon Bow 🏹, how would a wolf hold both a bow and an arrow, it isn't feasible
the concept of a villian that truely wanted to do good is something that pokemon have tried but never fully commited to.. we had Lusamine in usum and lysandre.. Having Rose think what he's doing is genuinely the right and good thing to do would have been such a cool idea seeing as technically, his goal is noble.. but they just... you know, didn't do much other then "This bad thing is gonna happen in like 1000 years so i'm gonna unleash this god to fix it"
i would have loved him break down over the fact despite doing good [in his eyes] you the protagonist keep trying to stop him. Sorta like lysandre but unlike lysandre, never have him hate or dislike you. Idk, that's just my take.
Also that energy crisis could have even played into why corsola changed into a ghost type.. such a missed opportunity
Yes! A video to flex my mind muscles 💪 🧠
Eh, I still put Rose above the Team Rocket admins in GSC, simply based on the fact that I remember his name.
My problem with Rose was when he decided to hijack the plot. We were literally in the big tournament arc of the game. On battle away from battleing Leon and claiming the championship. But he decides to hijack the plot. I was more invested in being the very best like no one ever was.
They could have Rose's story but move it to post game. Probably would've been a better post game than what we actually got.
I never really thought much of Rose since so much was focused on other characters to really take his stoplight seriously, but I do love like how you gave him depth to see it. Personally, you should go for Lysandre next from X and Y. He was a really good villain, in my opinion, but had the same issues that Rose had or people never took him seriously.
I feel like the general consensus around Lysander is vaguely kinda positive, he’s not one of the most loved or most disliked villains. Lysander is classic psychotic JRPG megalomaniac cheese and he has the right amount of presence to pull that off, the main problem is that team flare is kinda boring, it actually has a one of the bigger rosters of major named characters, but with the exception of Malva and maybe the Scientist guy who off brand Charon they’re all interchangeable with the nameless team flare grunts. Also Lysander has a pretty weak Pokémon roster, but that’s more of a wider Kalos problem.
With the part about showing the effects of climate change, there's also Galarian Corsola which is the result of sudden climate changes killing coral reefs. They should've actually mentioned it in the story instead of leaving it in the pokedex.
I cannot believe they really gave him more development in the anime than in the actual game.
Not a bad Villain but Lusamine is my Favorite Villain
You pretty much say everything needed to be said. He fails because he's not just a super evil megalomaniac, but because he's genuinely trying to help but the issue he's trying to solve is so nonsensically far in the future to matter and pretty much non-existent in the present. But all itd take to make him cool are small changes to the text that can easily remedy the flaw and add that bit of lore the anime thankfully gave to make his motivation at least more sensible on an individual personal level for him lol. When Leon basically says out loud "I mean, you can wait not even an extra 24 hours bro, we got a millenia and some change" and it immediately ruins any foothold Rose is standing on, that's an L
It’s random but yesterday I thought Rose could be way better with Gary Oldman voicing him and of course a good script
His plan makes complete sense. It's the lack of buildup and credibility to his megalomaniacal side that makes him a bad villain, as well as the lack of impact his arc had on the world, the characters, and the player. As a writer. designer, and studying game developer, it's vital to create believable motives for your characters, or else your audience will simply not connect with them.
Chairman Rose was presented as a celebrity CEO with a kind heart who wanted to do good for Galar's people. And that's all we're shown -- we're never given any red herrings to his megalomaniacal side. Nothing that we can return to in hindsight and go, "Ohhhhhh! How could I have missed that." This has to be communicated perfectly or else it will completely lack its intended effect. And in Rose's case, it was not.
What was the state of the world before and after the events of Chairman Rose's Final Day? It was the same. How were the characters impacted? They were not.
Ok, fine, maybe Gamefreak used Kishotenketsu rather than the traditional western cause and effect structure. So, let's ask ourselves this: How was the world recontextualized for the player after Chairman Rose's failed plan? It was not.
Chairman Rose's ultimate plan and thwarting of it was the climax of the story, but it was never given a proper buildup (and no, keyboard warriors, a couple lore drops here and there does not constitute a proper buildup), nor did it have change the world, nor did it recontexualize the world in the player's eyes. It was like a blip in time, which is not what a successful major climax is.
And it was all for a problem that did not seem threatening to the player in spite of how Rose may have seen it.
Chairman Rose was a bad villain. Period.
Shoutout to Rose causing the only CG's within a mainline pokemon game
CG?
@@BJGvideos like artwork stills, when rose and Leon are talking the game shows 3 pieces of artwork
I got mad click baited by lusamine