I have a high level of knowledge on music theory, however when I compose on the piano I'm doing all of what you mentioned and more, syncopation etc.. I feel it and this is the crux of the matter, all the theory knowledge in the world is great to analyse, but you feel music, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff didn't compose to fit within the rules of Western music theory, it was created inside their brain and it's also about being creative and evoking emotions
Yes, but before you get to that level, you need to learn music. Schenker analysis is an analytical tool. It on its own won't make you a composer, but it will help with looking at other compositions and figuring out how they work, and in this way building your "musical vocabulary". Nobody was born with knowledge of music. In order to "feel" music naturally, you need to learn a lot of music. And music theory makes that learning process much easier (because it helps you with seeing patterns, and gives names to those common patterns). "Just feel it bro" is not good advice to a beginner/someone who's still learning. It is the end goal, but it doesn't teach anyone anything. Tchaikovsky didn't just start magically feeling music - he studied music theory, counterpoint and composition formally. This gave him useful tools, which gave him more freedom to express himself musically. The more you know, the more freedom you have. Yes, once you internalize this stuff, you don't have to think about it. But it's a bit like grammar - nobody thinks about grammar when they speak. But learning grammar still makes figuring out patterns behind the language much easier. You analyze music so that you can "just feel it".
Thanks for the video ive always considered schenkerian analysis to be astrology for music theory not as something trying to solve the "discrepancy problem"
@@hiera1917 it's still important to learn about, even though the man it's named after was a complete shitgibbon. It still forms part of European music analysis
If you can get ahold of it, Counterpoint in Composition by Salzer and Schachter is very systematic and it builds on Fux’s species method with a specific aim towards connecting it with Schenkerian theory.
Great question. I included a few suggested books for further reading at the very end of the last video in the series (th-cam.com/video/YsGxJTxkWjk/w-d-xo.html), but if I had to recommend a single textbook it would be Structural Hearing by Felix Salzer. Salzer focuses much less on analytic notation (he uses only very few symbols, and his graphs are quite easy to read) and instead focuses on the implications for musicianship skills as a whole.
It is quite a bold claim to assert that Schenker's life and political views are not relevant to his music theories, one that Schenker himself would have vehemently disagreed with.
Hi Ethan! I uploaded this video in September of 2019, before Dr. Ewell's plenary in November, and if I could make the video over again I would add a lot more context to that statement. The boldness of the claim has to be judged relative to a spectrum with Schenker and Ewell on one end, Ernst Oster on the other, and myself and many others somewhere in the middle. Regardless, I agree that the relevance or irrelevance of his racism deserves more than the 15 seconds I gave it. I've been working on a script for a video that would be aimed at addressing exactly this, but I'm having trouble framing it in a way that wouldn't become a lightning rod for further debate. I still might do that, but for now I simply cite Phil Ewell at the end of the last video.
@@JacobGran I doubt there's any way to do it without being a lightning rod for controversy, but I hope you'd be willing to post the video anyway. I've been watching this series and it's well presented, accessible and thoughtful, you would be a welcome voice in the bigger conversation.
eNeNe no I think the argument is that schenkerian analysis is outdated and based in racism, so we should open ourselves up to more recent forms of analysis for more recent pieces, such as using the Lydian chromatic concept of tonal organization
thanks Neely, I knew I learned figured bass for something
Jesse Olsson now you can create mash-ups of mozart and three blind mice, yay
Hey Jacob, just wanted to say this series on Schenkerian Analysis has helped me finish one of my University assignments! Great stuff! Thanks!
Glad to hear it!
Thank you very much, Prof. Dr. Jacob Gran!
Curious topic and Awesome presentation! Thank you Doc!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I though this was a lesson on the techniques of Michael Schenker...Damn!
I have a high level of knowledge on music theory, however when I compose on the piano I'm doing all of what you mentioned and more, syncopation etc.. I feel it and this is the crux of the matter, all the theory knowledge in the world is great to analyse, but you feel music, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff didn't compose to fit within the rules of Western music theory, it was created inside their brain and it's also about being creative and evoking emotions
couldn't agree more with this, all these will not make you a composer
Yes, but before you get to that level, you need to learn music. Schenker analysis is an analytical tool. It on its own won't make you a composer, but it will help with looking at other compositions and figuring out how they work, and in this way building your "musical vocabulary". Nobody was born with knowledge of music. In order to "feel" music naturally, you need to learn a lot of music. And music theory makes that learning process much easier (because it helps you with seeing patterns, and gives names to those common patterns).
"Just feel it bro" is not good advice to a beginner/someone who's still learning. It is the end goal, but it doesn't teach anyone anything. Tchaikovsky didn't just start magically feeling music - he studied music theory, counterpoint and composition formally. This gave him useful tools, which gave him more freedom to express himself musically. The more you know, the more freedom you have.
Yes, once you internalize this stuff, you don't have to think about it. But it's a bit like grammar - nobody thinks about grammar when they speak. But learning grammar still makes figuring out patterns behind the language much easier.
You analyze music so that you can "just feel it".
Thanks for the video ive always considered schenkerian analysis to be astrology for music theory not as something trying to solve the "discrepancy problem"
Very good explanation, thanks for sharing this
My pleasure!
I would like to know how to study Music Composition with you.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for the content, very useful.
I have always been desperate to learn this!
NEELY PROVIDES
Took me a hot minute to figure out what people have been talking about lol.
@@JacobGran Bloody great stuff!
Sure as hell not going to learn about this shit though. Fuck Schenker and fuck white supremacy (awesome videos though, Dr. Gran! I’m learning a ton)
@@hiera1917 it's still important to learn about, even though the man it's named after was a complete shitgibbon. It still forms part of European music analysis
Thank you!!!
You're welcome!
uh. Woa... i got a little... great videos.
Hi, could you recommend some resources of Schenkerian Analysis?
Great introduction! Which Counterpoint Resources do you mostly recommend?
If you can get ahold of it, Counterpoint in Composition by Salzer and Schachter is very systematic and it builds on Fux’s species method with a specific aim towards connecting it with Schenkerian theory.
@@JacobGran this is very helpful. Thank you!
Hi! Thank you for these videos about Schenkerians Analthis. Can you suggest me a book in which I can learn more about his Analysis?
Thanks
Great question. I included a few suggested books for further reading at the very end of the last video in the series (th-cam.com/video/YsGxJTxkWjk/w-d-xo.html), but if I had to recommend a single textbook it would be Structural Hearing by Felix Salzer. Salzer focuses much less on analytic notation (he uses only very few symbols, and his graphs are quite easy to read) and instead focuses on the implications for musicianship skills as a whole.
@@JacobGran thank you very much! 😊
Thank you for this
wonderful!
Did Schenker have more than one shed on his property?
No. He only said he was thinking of getting another one.
@@JacobGran Thank you for, arguably, the most appropriate Flying Circusian response.
nice )))
YOU DONT NEED WIKIPEDIA TO SHOW AN EXAMPLE OF PRIME FACTORISATION JACOB
And you don't need to use your OUTDOOR VOICE in my comments section, @chessematics.
5 septonic functional scales. Scales start on the tonic unlike modes.
Be careful. Modes does not starts on tonic (because there is no such a thing in modes) but they starts at the 'center'.
All horizontal motion is analyzed as key changes.
Chords to enigmatic scale degrees
Rapid modulations of scales
"Schenker is know for being racist" is the understatement of the year lmao but great video
It is quite a bold claim to assert that Schenker's life and political views are not relevant to his music theories, one that Schenker himself would have vehemently disagreed with.
Hi Ethan! I uploaded this video in September of 2019, before Dr. Ewell's plenary in November, and if I could make the video over again I would add a lot more context to that statement. The boldness of the claim has to be judged relative to a spectrum with Schenker and Ewell on one end, Ernst Oster on the other, and myself and many others somewhere in the middle. Regardless, I agree that the relevance or irrelevance of his racism deserves more than the 15 seconds I gave it. I've been working on a script for a video that would be aimed at addressing exactly this, but I'm having trouble framing it in a way that wouldn't become a lightning rod for further debate. I still might do that, but for now I simply cite Phil Ewell at the end of the last video.
@@JacobGran I doubt there's any way to do it without being a lightning rod for controversy, but I hope you'd be willing to post the video anyway. I've been watching this series and it's well presented, accessible and thoughtful, you would be a welcome voice in the bigger conversation.
Yeah, I will stop listening to Beethoven right away because he was white. How dared he?!
eNeNe no I think the argument is that schenkerian analysis is outdated and based in racism, so we should open ourselves up to more recent forms of analysis for more recent pieces, such as using the Lydian chromatic concept of tonal organization
Joshua Broyles completely agree, the basis of the theory was Schenkers views which makes it illogical to teach in the modern day