I know children who were raised by gay parents, and they would never have such shame for a parent like Val had. Those two men obviously did an amazing job raising him, loving and providing for him, and to have Val act like their "gayness" is something new and weird to him isn't very realistic.
@@MattBaume I never really thought of Val as a character. He and Barbara are a plot device the cause all sorts of hijinks to happen but aren't particularly fun or interesting themselves.
Well put. The son is an incredible ass. But Williams and Lane are amazing. How does a kid raised by two loving gay parents end up like that? I can maybe see Williams as being the more "dad" dad and Lane being more of the "mom" dad if that is a thing. But basically growing up seeing people bigoted against the loving people who raised you and suddenly you side with the bigots? I get that this is needed for conflict. But the tone of the kid just comes off as entitled ahole. Make it so the girlfriend has visited before and they all love each other, but bigoted senator wants to meet them. Kid politely begs dads to pretend to be dad and uncle and play straight. Bring in mom to play mom. Uh oh mom can't make it so Lane becomes mom. Same set up. Just make the kid feel awful about forcing them to do it. The girlfriend can go in on making the changes. Just make the son less of an ass.
This has always been one of those movies that I love, but hate a little bit. Val always made me so mad, but Robin Williams and Nathan Lane are just so great together, and Hank Azaria is hilarious. A conflicting fave for sure.
To me this wouldn’t be so bad if Val had some sort of epiphany about what he did and truly apologized. If they ever do another remake it then that’s the change they should make.
@@BitsyGem I rewatched it recently and I think the character beats are there, it's just they aren't focused on. Like we're supposed to assume this idea is slowly growing in his brain as things progress but it's so subtle that it may as well not even be there. I know the show, don't tell rule but this is a case where some tell would be nice to help redeem Val.
Although despite it all, this version of Val is still an improvement over the one in the French original. The kids might as well been plank from Ed, Edd and Eddy. Some scenes they don't even move or speak as all the chicanery is going on.
@@ileolai if he had stood up to the senator and said, no, Barbara is staying with me, I think that would have done it. It wouldn’t have changed the plot, since Keeley could have still grabbed Barbara’s arm and tried to leave with her, and the camera flash etc could have continued as normal. In fact, that would have been better since keeleys dramatic arc and character change would have been even more intense.
I've always hated the character of Val. He's a horrible, selfish bastard of a character. He's been around Arnold his Entire life, but his reaction to having a gay step-father is like he just woke up from a twenty year Pence-enduced coma. As a gay step-father I'm glad to say that my step-daughter is Nothing like this brat.
When I watched the Birdcage as a kid, I thought Val was the protagonist. As an adult, I realized it was really a movie about Armond and Albert's relationship.
I think that, since they were staunch conservatives, the idea was it would have been just as shameful for Barbara to get divorced as it would be to admit that she was married to a man who came from a same-sex parent home. So kind of to trap Sen. Keeley into a situation where he had to bad choices, but only one of them would also make his daughter sad.
@@tyrant-den884 Being a kid with two dads back then would not have made it easy for him growing up. He's not a homophobe lol Val isn't the one voting for anti gay policies
Hello Matt I am a straight man who has always hated traditional masculinity (my mom was always forcing me to not show emotions and god forbid I ever cried in front of her, all of this since I was around 5) So I sort of know how it feels, trying to act all the time, second guessing your every move, It wasn't till I met my wife and some gay friends that I was finally able to act the way I wanted and it was liberating, now I really like gay culture, it's funny, charming and some of the bravest men can be found within your ranks. I promise I will never stop fighting along side you guys and I promise that I will make it my mission to show you guys that not all straight men are assholes, truth be told, most straight men also suffer under the fetishisation of masculiny.
Michael Mitchell I don't hate masculinity at all, masculinity is great, brave and protective towards others. What I hate is toxic masculinity, the stupid, reductive ideas that some people have about masculinity, like aggressiveness, violence, repression of your own feelings, all those characteristic that turn men into abusive, unhappy people.
Michael Mitchell You behave like a bully, not like a man. Also your idea that there is only one way to be a man makes you sound like a caveperson, not like a "man". You're toxic.
I never thought of The Birdcage in that light. What makes this more amusing to me, is that the actor who played Val, went on to play a recently out gay man in Will & Grace.
"The Birdcage" is one of my favorite movies. The stellar performances by Williams, Lane, Hackman and Weiss always distracted me from Val's incredible dipshittery. It's the ancient "denied mother" story, one of humanity's saddest, tucked into a zany comedy. I hope I'll still be able to enjoy it after watching your searingly spot-on review!
My wife and I are always on about how infuriating Val is as a character. He never has to pay for being a prick, he planned the whole thing poorly and he treated both of his parents like garbage. I literally searched 'Val is a Dick the Birdcage' on youtube and here we are. Thank you for voicing what we've been shouting for literal years.
I saw this as a little kid and remember hating that “son” and couldn’t understand why he didn’t realize how lucky he is to have a family that loves him so much! And the girl loved him and adored his family as they were...
I think what's important here is context. We're looking at a 1973 play turned movie (La Cage aux Folles) remade into a 1996 movie (essentially the exact same script with a few slight differences) viewed through 2015 lenses. A lot has changed in 40 years, though the script itself hadn't. It's easy to paint Val as a horrid villain, but while his behavior is asinine on many levels, his behavior is based on fear--something we should all be familiar with. Letting this fear rule him leads to a lot of horrible behavior on his part, but in the end, the outcome was positive (though telling a senator in the middle of a crisis that your fiance's parents are gay and run a nightclub with drag queens is probably not the proper way to get a "meet the parents" evening). Is Val truly villainous? Hardly. He's a heartless jerk due to his own societal fears, that much comes across, but perhaps the true villain of the film is the society that makes people so terrified of being who they are that they feel the need to blatantly lie and harm the ones they love simply to be accepted.
Agreed. When I watched La Cage aux Folles I was surprised at how line-by-line the remake was (even the scenes which one would think would've been tailored to Robin William's comedy where actually lifted from the original). I only remember two rather small scenes that where different (one being the reveal of Albert/Albin as Val's actual mother - in the original it was Renato/Bernard that did it - which the remake shifted to Val - one tiny thing that I suppose did help humanize Val a little more). I think we should be viewing the movie through 1973 eyes and not 1996 eyes (which in heinsight Val's actions do feel a little archaic for 1996 but would've been slightly more understandable in 1973)
You’re really bending over backwards to make the son seem less villainous-when you yourself are ignoring the context of this video. Ironic, no? Baume is analyzing THE BIRDCAGE, not La Cauge (I’m misspelling that). If an adaptation cannot stand on its own without the context of its original source, it’s not a good movie. Comparisons can surely be made but you’re just resisting Baume’s analysis because you don’t agree with it.
But honestly, La cage aux folles never felt so cringe or asinine. Something was lost in the translation, or something was added in the adaptation, that makes a lot of difference.
That's exactly what I thought! I'm shocked that Val gets the happy ending instead of him going off somewhere while Armand and Albert stayed friends with the Senator's family, and the daughter married some nice guy. By the end he just seems like _everyone's_ enemy.
I saw The Birdcage for the first time as a teenager with my Dad, and Val ALWAYS bothered me. I just didn’t understand how someone could treat their parents like that.
I avoided the movie early on due to homophobia. I was attacked as a teen leaving me feeling like most gay men were predatory. Upon actually watching the Birdcage, I laughed myself sick. Until I realized something. Nathan Lane's character had to hide who he was. This struck me as profoundly sad. It still brings tears to my eyes. He went through so much to support his douchey son, hide himself so much, changed who he essentially was because he loved his son. The fact that people have and still may have to live as someone they aren't is pretty gutwrenching to me.
I was was molested several times as a teen and although it never made me homophobic it did make it hard for me to fully embrace my bisexuality until a couple of years ago. I still struggle with it sometimes but I'm finding ways to cope, I hope you are O.K. Love from an internet stranger.
I think that's kinda why they put so much stress on how young Val is. C'mon, we all did stupid selfish things when we were young (and hopefully look back on these mistakes with a degree of shame... it's part of how we grow into decent humans). I like to think he outgrew it. Doesn't detract from your point, though... he is a total D-bag, and certainly the cause of conflict far more than the senator is.
Yo I've been realized this shit lol we're supposed to feel sorry for him in the movie but the way he treated his own mother, his real mother not the last who just gave birth to him, it was disgusting.
While I agree with a lot of what you've said, you seem to have missed an important plot point, that may have changed the conversation a bit. It wasn't Val who started this lie, it was Barbara. Val tells his dad that Barbara was the one who told her family that Armand was a cultural attache and that Albert was a housewife. We actually see this happen when Barbara tells her parents she's engaged.
@@quirkyblackenby Because she was happy to know them, she told the lie to her family not because she didn't like the idea of 2 father-in-laws but that she feared her family wouldn't let her have that.
*standing ovation* Val made me so violently angry when I first saw this movie I thought I might literally spontaneously combust. You put very eloquently what I can only convey through loud, incoherent rants.
I love this movie, but you are absolutely right. What Val did to his two dads was reprehensible. He cared more about what his possible father-in-law thought more than the two people who raised him.
You made a lot of really great points, many of which I'd never considered before! I think it's also really important to mention, though, the fact that Val wants to hide the fact that he and his father are Jewish. It's not just the queerness of his family something he thinks he needs to hide, but his heritage and faith.
I just watched this movie for the first time (because I'm a terrible human) and was also completely struck by how awful Val was. There was no sense of closeness or of family between him and his dads. It was awful. I chocked it up to the fact that the movie was made in 1996 so maybe the way to regard gay characters was a really underdeveloped thing (this is a ridiculous justification, though) and also that it's a farce, but yeah, he sours the movie for sure. Nathan and Robin were pure brilliance, though.
Agreed, but I always chocked this up in part to Dan Futterman's poor acting. His performance, as well as Calista Flockhart's who played his fiance, were the weak points of the movie for me, especially glaring when contrasted with the brilliant performances of the top notch actors they were working with.
@@perfumaphilia3246 Calista Flockhart always struck me as kind of "ghoulish" in her acting AND in real life. Watch some of her past interviews about her supposed bout with anorexia. Yeeeeeesh!
You've put into a video just what I've thought about this movie for years! I have a love-hate relationship with the film. I love so many of the lines, characters, and comedy, but Val makes me so angry! He brings this conflict into his parents' lives and is willing to destroy everything they've built for themselves. What was he going to do if he and Barbara got married and the entire family was there? Have his father pretend again to be heterosexual? Continue on for the rest of their lives under that lie? His parents' relationship was falling apart in front of his very eyes and he sat back and had the nerve to say "Try not to walk. Don't gesture. Just don't talk much." He was cruel, selfish, and unapologetic.
I was terrified you were going to rip one of my favorite movies apart, but you were 100%. I've watched it a million times, and now I get to enjoy it that much more. Thank you.
It's a shame to reduce the narrative to heroes vs. villains. We've all done things we were ashamed of, things we knew at that time were wrong but did anyway. That was what was so beautiful about the film. People aren't heroes and villains. They're people who just want to be happy and want to get by. It's not the people who never make mistakes and never hurt anyone else that are worth our empathy, sympathy and admiration. Those people don't exist. And films about those people aren't just inauthentic. They're dull.
Robin Williams and I would get slices of pizza down the street from where I grew up. Later, I found out he was catching 12-step meetings near there. Years ago, I went to the pizza place, and there was still a picture of the two of us seated by the window albeit sun faded now.
The original French movie is much better and does not portray the son as an insensitive homophobic ass. Albert is kind of tamed compared to the original. Gurl!, you ain't seen flaming until you watch Albin in action. it's amazingly funny.
Ya but original's also a plank of wood. I swear most of the movie he's just sitting in the background doing NOTHING. The American version has some problems but at least you can safely say he is a character. And whenever they decide to do a remake making him understand what he's done more would be the major change I'd want to see. Also this isn't coming from a gay perspective since I'm not gay, this is coming from a stepchild perspective and always feeling this part of the story wasn't quite right.
@@Lab_Member_X the American version actually fixes one problem. You'll remember the scene where Robin Williams bumps into the one guy while teaching Albert how to be manly and decides to double down on being a macho jerk and then gets beaten up. Thats still funny because it was Robin Williams fault and is getting a bit of comeuppance for being a jerk to a random stranger. The French version has a scene where some assholes are making fun of the swishy Albert at a bar, Armand stands up for the person he loves and he's beaten up for his trouble...funny?
My name is Joe and I found your video, Matt, very insightful - as I expected (LOVE Your Videos! Sometimes they move me to tears!) - I remember that we had the Showtime Network on cable when I was a young adolescent and I saw movies that I would Never have seen otherwise - one of those was the French film, 'La Cage aux Folles' (I'm pretty sure they showed it late at night so it wouldn't 'accidentally' be viewed by young children - I remember well staying up late to watch - and rewatch - films that I Liked which fit this category) - I recall how VERY VERY FUNNY I found that French movie (subtitled) to be... and since it was the 1980s at that time and HIV & AIDS were causing much suffering in this world, I was not wanting to mature into a homosexual man... but that movie helped me to realize that while I might be afraid of my own budding sexuality, I did Not need to be afraid of gay men... years later I would realize that I could be afraid of a Deadly Virus, and afraid of my own potentially Bad Judgment, but I Still didn't need to fear gay men in general... and as a college student I realized that I could find a way to allow myself to be gay and still minimize my risk of contracting HIV/Dying of AIDS... my 1st ex was significantly older than I and very aware of how I felt, and also a big proponent of "safe sex" and fidelity in gay relationships. We met in 1991 in Chicago Illinois and moved together to Minnesota in the summer of 1995... A few months later we both experienced shock as a brutal cold wave descended on the Upper Midwest, with daily high temps of -40 in the Twin Cities. 'The Birdcage' came out at this time and we went to the movies to see it; my significant other said, "I LOVE These Actors - Robin Williams and Nathan Lane - BOTH SO FUNNY - and their costars... Dan Futterman [who played Val] has been a gay character in Other Films, and he's Very Believable! (WINK!)" [We Always Wondered... being gay ourselves - about actors' potential for being Gay/Bi] - "And - Joe - as a Florida Native [I'm from Daytona Beach] - I thought it would cheer you up to see your home state on the big screen ['The Birdcage' was set in South Beach, Miami] - during this Cold Wave!" [He was RIGHT!] I was acutely aware, since the reactions of members of my own family to my Coming Out had been quite diverse, that the characters onscreen were not as different from people we Knew as we might've Wished... and I am actually very happy to see that Younger gay men [like YOU - Matt Baume!] Can get angry at Val's behavior NOW, when I didn't blink an eyelid at it in 1996! Thank Heaven for Progress! [I'm sad that Progress has not been Universal or Steady... and Many people have disappointed me - one movie I watched multiple times late at night on Showtime was the Australian film, "Gallipoli' - sigh... my pubescent self fell madly in lust with the ass of a beautiful young Aussie named Mel Gibson... and Man, what a disappointment HE turned out to be!!!] But the good news is that when the dust finally settled even my most homophobic siblings eventually came around and accepted Me Fully As I Am - and this happened while we were Still in the 1990s! So I am Grateful for having the opportunity to be "Out and Proud" for 30 years now... and I know better than to take it for granted when there are still too many places in this world that are hotspots of homophobic hatred.
Side note: as an adopted child, I never understood Val's desire to connect to Katherine. He had two loving parents who raised him, and I can't in any way imagine a scenario where he might think that this person who was absent his entire life, who knew where to find him if she wanted to be a part of his life but didn't, might be a better "mother" to him than Albert. I've never felt like it was a good idea or something I really wanted to do for my own life, so why did Val think it was good for his?
Brilliant. I’ve watched most of your vids the last few days, and the tone of this one is so very different, so justifiably enraged. I hadn’t even thought of this when I was the film in first release, but your absolutely on point. Excellent summation.
I love The Birdcage... was the first gay movie I ever watched with my Dad (he was against it, but ended up loving it) and you are so right Val was a POS. But every story needs conflict.
The ENTIRE plot of the movie revolves around this aspect....that's the whole point. He "begrudgingly" said Albert was his Mom? No, that's what the movie led up to. It was him FINALLY accepting Albert into his life. Notice how at the end, Albert is crying and interrupting the wedding ceremony and Val smiles.
I can understand Matt making a point, but he sounds like my partner a lot when he talks back to characters on the TV making bad choices, and I have to remind him 'If those people didn't act like that the movie/TV show story line would be pretty boring'. This movie is one of my favorites I can watch over and over and always be entertained (and I still use a lot of the lines as come backs - "Wish wigs?"). But if you want to see nastiness, watch the original French film where there is open hostility between the gays and the straights.
I think people might be reading too much into Vals motivations. He’s panicking because the parents of the woman he loves are bigots who would stop them marrying. He behaves like he does to his fathers because of that panic. And the beautiful thing is that his dads understand his pain and do everything they can so he can marry his fiancé. I think it’s a wonderful film about the relationship between parents and their offspring and the sacrifices parents make to protect them.
They did need a scene where Val makes amends for his behavior but also needed a actor who was actually 21. The idea I think they were going for was youthful selfishness which we all had and promoted many of us do really stupid and hurtful things.
I think I remember feeling the same way about Val the first time I watched it. It's like, he got a slight taste of "normal" and immediately sided against his own father and step-dad. Don't forget that Armand was Jewish in the film, and his own fiance got in on the subterfuge and pretended they had a different last name to hide that fact as well. Had things gone as planned, it's pretty obvious what would have happened after the wedding. Val would have cut Armand and Albert out of his life completely, especially having been the son-in-law of a Senator and having access to money.
I've watched this movie a dozen times, and I've always felt so icky whenever Val talks, but it wasn't until this video that I was really able to understand why.
That's what's so pernicious about his characters -- he just makes being gay seem so illicit and unpleasant, when just the opposite is true. He should be standing up for his family!
Considering how each of them were raised, it’s interesting how quickly Barbara comes around to accepting the idea of having gay relatives and how quickly Val seems to relish in taking on others’ prejudices. Also bear in mind that Barbara’s parents are only okay with her getting married at 18 because it will distract from their scandal, so they also are inclined to exploit family members. The families should have traded kids
I just watched this last night with my daughter and never realized that Val is the TRUE villain of the movie. He really upset me as I watched it. At least at the end he claimed both his parents and that made me feel better
I haven't even seen your video yet and I already agree 100%. I always hated Val for how he treated Albin. Albin has been his second father his whole life. Yet, Val treats him like this horrible, huge embarrassment. If Albin had just been in his father's life a few years, I'd still find it upsetting. But, really, Albin has been in Val's life his Entire life. It's not that the future father in law is such a prick, but that the son he's helped raise could so easily turn on Albin and discard him. And, the other part I hate, is how is he getting "good job offers" when he's on,y half way through college? Not to mention he's been having sex with an underage girl. (He's 20 and she's 18, but they've been having sex for a year.). Overall, I love this movie and the musical, but I've always really been pissed at Val for treating Albin like crap. Thus concludes my rant. ☺️
Oops. I forgo they changed his name to Albert in the movie. It's Albin in the musical. I'm watching the video and getting more upset with Val. You're so right!!! He's an abuser! Ugh!!! Val is now my nemesis! Lol.
Thanks for this. I have always believed this. It’s even worse in the stage musical because the son has to sit through a entire song about his relationship to his father and remain unmoved. I took a class in NYC with John Weiner who not only originated the son but played him for the entire 3 and a half year run. We had a couple conversations about his flawed character.
I mostly remember Robin Williams' question, when the gay press pressed him on the portrayal: "What more did we have to do? Did we have to kiss.?' My response is, 'Yes. That would have been nice. Just a peck on the cheek.' I've always been a bit unnerved by the Birdcage, but this review really sticks the knife in why. I cried watching this review. I have a love/hate relationship with this film, like Kristen does. Robin Williams and Nathan Lane are wonderful in it, though the 'Celluloid Closet' Vito Russo voice in my head groans. The book politically activated me. At least no one died in the Birdcage.
I remember watching the film- and feeling so sorry for the fathers. Like Albert is treated so dirty, and I felt so sad when he tried to play straight and then had to disguise completely. Like bad son who won’t stand up for his fathers, and I know you love her but she has to be ready to marry into your family as you are hers. What does he expect to do for their wedding? The rest of their lives?
Another fantastic video Matt. Thanks for making them. Although I agree with your analysis, you failed to take into account this story dates from the early 70s, when Val's behaviour was very normal. I think that Val represents society's attitude toward the gay lifestyle, and considering the times, a very liberal one. It was important to show his homophobia so that society would see itself in him. His parent's loving and accomodating response I think had the effect of making it easier for audiences to relate to Val and reflect on their own homophobia.
@@stormcloudsabound Not stupid, but more.... as time passes culture shifts occur In this case the homophobia aspect. When the story was written Val's character was meant to be more sympathetic for audiences, able to put themselves in his shoes and bringing to light internal uncomfortable truths such as homophobia and the fear of meeting your partner's parents. As times changed and acceptance became more common (though by 96, still not as good as it should have been especially in conservative areas of the US) the concept behind Val's character became more dated and we didn't see it as homophobia but more being as pooy faced jerk (other explanatives can be added here too). This can be attributed to us as a culture already being aware of our internal homophobias and know how working with that can be a challenge, still giving us understanding why Val wasn't so open with the Senator as with his Fiancé, but at the same point knowing that is not how anyone should treat their parents. I think a pysc major could explain it a bit better though
I would agree, but there is one little fact that you overlooked. Barbara was the one that started the lie and the senator was snooping into her life by listening into her calls. Barbara probably knew her parents better than val, and told val that if they wanted to get married, they needed to keep this secret. The reason for the secret was because Barbara knew her parents wouldn't let her marry val because of his parents. She even said as they were leaving that she knew that her parents wouldn't let her marry into the family. She was wrong, but we don't know how long that took after the evening in question.
But I do agree that val did not treat his parents very well. He could have handled it better. He was dick about it. Still, he did have reason to believe that his father would go along with the plan because his father hid being gay before for the benefit of his son.
This has a similar energy to the “Grandpa Joe was the antagonist” argument in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory; in that IT COMPLETELY MAKES SENSE.
You should review 'The Sum of Us", Same era, but a very different slant on being, just gay. Thanks for your reviews, enjoying immensely a revisit of movies past.
+GreatGazukes I sure agree on this. "The Sum of Us" effected me deeply. I knew I had to marry my husband in order to avoid any chance of meeting the fate of Russell Crowe's Grandmothers.
Agreed. I think it was the first foreign film I ever saw and I just loved it. It has been a long time, but I think Laurent was a bit more loving towards his dads in the original.
Just saw a Reddit story where a guy was asked by his girlfriend to only bring one of his moms over for dinner and ask her to pretend she's straight because her parents were conservative and she didn't want them to know that the guy was raised by two moms. the guy was confused because he couldn't understand asking that of his mothers and decided to break up with the girl instead when she showed that she was just as homophobic as her parents. The comments introduced me to birdbrain as the movie.
Val a villain is a bit much, to me it was no different than movies where the child is embarrassed of a poor or uneducated parent. At the time it was considered a progressive movie. It wasn't an earth shattering movie but enjoyed parts. Compare it to boys in the band where all the characters were basically unhappy messes, which made you think that as gay men we'd never find happiness. Birdcage atleast gives you a happy ending
+TPR38655 Agreed, to me Val seemed misguided and a bit insensitive, but not really villainous. The movie was more of a social commentary on what was considered societal norms and how most people don't actually fit those norms even if they pretend that they do. So there really wasn't a villain beyond society in general, at least, that's how I took it.
That’s what I was thinking. I was a kid when this came out, but I seem to remember this being a super progressive movie, and the general attitude was that the son was reasonably cautious. Of course that doesn’t excuse it, but it was more fitting of the time.
A movie needs a source of conflict to be iterating and set up for humor. This plot worked. Society has changed these past thirty years. It's not fair to judge history by current social ideals. This movie demonstrates that everyone wants to fit in.
Well said, and totally agreed. Val is incredibly selfish and callous the whole movie through, and never ONCE gives Albert the basic dignity of sitting down with him and speaking plainly about his fears in facing Barbara's parents. He tiptoes around Albert the whole time, acting like Albert is some terrible thing he can't directly address. Honestly, I think Val is a manifestation of straight America's subconscious bias. The movie assumes the audience is part of straight America, and that of course they'll automatically sympathize with Val's "plight" of having to navigate having gay parents. It doesn't seem to take the perspective of its gay characters as seriously.
i just rewatched this, and i'd really like Matt to do a deeper dive on this, because i had forgotten how much this movie really is a perfect snapshot of the public conversation around gay people in the mid-90s. throughout the film, there's an emphasis on how Albert and Armand are a family, who have raised a (straight!) son-- pointing out that gay people want to have families like anyone else, and tearing those families apart is cruel. Armand worries about being thrown out of his own house with no legal recourse, and there's a minor plot point where Armand and Albert sign a legal document that officially gives half their possessions to the other person-- pointing out the legal struggles that gay people faced with not having the same protections as a married couple. it absolutely excoriates the hypocrisy of conservative politicians who hopped on homophobic talking points for popularity and attention despite not actually caring much one way or another when it comes down to it. and, even though some of the stereotypes are over the top-- gay men do not typically decorate their entire house with penises-- they have the effect of showing how impossible it is to hide who you are, and how painful it is to try. (i actually winced when Armand tucks his Star of David into his shirt.) Albert's drama queen behavior is played for laughs in the beginning, but in the "and you hate me" scene, his feelings are taken completely seriously by the film, and he ends up being the only competent one of the bunch. and it came out twenty years before marriage equality! a hilarious farce movie that put the very real issues facing gay people right in the audience's face. and never once makes light of them.
THANK YOU! I had to pause the movie when Nathan Lane tried to stutter his way through a defense of his colourful socks and that spoiled little shitbird glared at him because I was crying too loud to hear the dialogue. I honestly expected his girlfriend to dump him at the end of the movie - this level of disrespect for your family is _the reddest of flags._
I'm a touch more sympathetic to Val. He's a teen in love, and will do anything to make Barbie(ra) his wife. And Barbara must have put Val up to this; she knows her own father, after all, and she's at least complicit in this plan. They're just kids with hormones, so they get a begrudging pass; as Bruce Villanch sarcastically noted of the Val-hate at the time of the film's release, "Yeah, yeah, we're all nice to our parents at that age." The real villains are the press, who are arrogant, selfish, and jump at the chance to exploit a private family situation for their own gain. And, yes, they do get the "villain edit" in this movie. It's the threat of exposure of selective facts that motivates everything in this story, so they are the bad guys in general, and the specific villain is Tom McGowan's muckraker who "put on so much weight since the Simpson case."
Val knew that the senator was extremely homophobic. So he was trying to pull the wool over his eyes in order to get married. (Hence the screwball comedy that ensues.) Both fathers knew that Val's marriage would never happen if the senator found out they were gay. That's why both of them went to such extremes for their son. I suppose if you had your way, the movie would be over in 15 minutes. The senator fully accepts the gay couple (regardless of how if would effect his political career as an ultra-conservative), and the son and daughter get married. The end! Sounds like a boring movie, if you ask me. Also keep in mind that socially there was a different mindset about gay people a decade ago. That's like getting angry about the two transphobic jokes in Mrs. Doubtfire, even though the movie is 22 years old.
Laurent in the French original _La Cage aux Folles_ appeared to be younger than his counterpart, Val, in the American _The Birdcage_, so we were able to cut a bit more slack for Laurent.
I saw this originally in a stage performance, so my feelings on it are skewed, but at least on stage, Val had a very small role. He was a typical immature, self-centered 19yo and though he was the reason for the drama that unfolded, his role was really just there to set things going story-wise. The conflict between Armand and Albert was really what the play was about, and Albert was the real hero, as he struggled for acceptance, even against the man he'd spent his life with. In English and in modern times, Val's need to get married makes zero sense anyway. As for his selfishness... That's teenagers for you. they can't see past the tips of their noses. And maybe Armand and Albert were weak parents for giving in to Val's request, but even there we see that the main tension is between Armand and Albert. In the play, at the end of the first act Albert is singing "I am what I am" sadly, and the reason is he feels hurt by Armand. Not by Val. FWIW, IMO you can't blame 19yos for being ungrateful and selfish. That's their nature. It's like being upset at a toddler for tipping over a plant. It's up to parents to judge how far they'll go to make their kids' lives easier. I adore La Cage-both in English and in French. But the movie was really trying to stretch a bunch of plot points too far and I fear that a lot of the theme got lost in translation.
You missed the entire point of the movie. What this movie is about is the extreme lengths that parents will go through for their children. Despite the rather absurd ending, Armand knows that Val will not be able to marry his fiance without this charade.
While Val was a bit of a jerk, he didn't *begrudgingly* admit everything at the end. Val--after spending the evening with Albert as the life of the party--he realized he was mistaken for acting the way he had throughout the movie and was trying to atone. And he only acted the way he did because he knew his fiance wouldn't marry him without her parent's blessing. That was my takeaway anyway.
Yeah, and this video also ignores the part where he outright says to his dad that he's afraid of getting hurt if he's honest about his family. His insensitive actions don't come from a place of malice, and he grows a lot through the story. I really don't think this movie is meant to have a "villain" anyway - it's about love and family and acceptance. Those are concepts that the central characters all struggle with, in different ways
Agree! "La Cage Aux Folles" (the French film, not the musical) isn't so heavy handed, but gets the point across loud, clear, and in a far funnier manner. If you can get a hold of this film, it is definitely a Must See.
I'm not gay, the thing is I didn't like this movie as a comedy, however I found it very powerful as an actual love story between Robin Williams and Nathan Lane's characters.
Given the time the original (La Cage Aux Folles) was made, this is to an extent understandable. I do agree that Val is an ass, but I can remember watching Cage and understanding the motives.
BRAVO!!!! Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth about this completely horrible film. Val is one of the most disgusting characters I've ever come across in a movie. He's beyond simply disliking his fathers - HE HATES THEM - and he has no problem showing that hatred especially towards Armand. Armand went through pure hell in this film, and the thing is, this film is supposed to be a comedy but there was nothing funny about the way Armand was treated by the child he loves more then anyone else in the world. Words can't fully express how much I hate this movie thank to the character of Val. He is a serious homophobic bastard!
You are right it is a horrible movie but not just because of Val who, in the original 1978 movie of La Cage Aux Folles is nearly the same BUT he is not as shitty to his dad's as the American version is to his. The real problem is timing and plot points. The Bird Cage came along as the gay rights movement began gaining some real ground so most of the original problems in the original did not translate and thus did not make any farcical sense in TBC. The timing of well done farce is critical and the American version was all over the map so many of the jokes fell flat. There is so much more wrong with TBC but I'd need too much time to explain it all. If you haven't seen the 1978 La Cage Aux Folles movie I suggest you do as the characters are far more tender and rediculous, but in a good way, that you'll find yourself forgiving Val rather than wanting to strangle him.
I would love it if you re did this one now, there are so many more layers to this story both good and bad that I think you could do a full video on it.
Hi Matt, just discovered your channel and I've gone pretty deep on your videos. Particularly the Culture Cruise playlist. Loving them all. I also went and listened to your episode 19 of your podcast and I'm glad I did. Keep it up. 🙏
You must remember also that Val is young. He’s in love with a girl that has a father who, they think, will not stand for her fiancés family. They’re desperate, and thus, make some bad decisions. Although what Val does is wrong, I don’t think malice was his intent. I think he was just afraid of losing the woman he loves, and was willing to do anything to keep her. And he had enough trust in his family that he thought they would help him with his scheme. In other words, he knew that they would forgive him eventually.
Just found your channel while in quarantine! I remember watching this when I was kid! My mom loves this film and it was pretty much a family favorite since it was just such a fun film but I do remember my mom always fast forwarding any part with Val unless he was with Nathan Lane or Robin Williams XD Great video!
The original ( French) was WAY BETTER! Second, Val is an ungrateful boob. When a gay dad steps up to the plate over the biological mom, that shows 100% class. Good analysis Matt.
When i was a kid i never noticed how bad Val was. I was so taken in by the performances of Robin Williams and Nathan Lane that my focus was on them and the eventual dinner party. Of course as i got older i was more critical of Val and thought his behavior towards his dads was reprehensible.
I always watch the Birdcage with my cousin. It's one of our favorite movies to watch together. However, we absolutely despise Val. While he is straight, and I am asexual, we both were raised by our respective single mothers. We can't see ourselves being ashamed by not meeting the conservative standards of a nuclear family. Yeah, it sucks to be judged by people, but part of growing up is starting to do give a f... about it. Val is a baby and I still can't believe how two cool and understanding dads had such a bad luck to have him as a son.
Our son watched The Birdcage with his two dads a very long time ago. He mentioned recently on how watching it showed him how NOT to act as a son.
I have no issue with this did you explain when this came out that’s how the world was
Same here, saw it when I was a kid and thought the kid in that movie was a douche.
kabukiscarab that’s not how you should explain things to your kid
That's so sweet! Sounds like you did a great job raising him!
@@johnclavis Well, we must have done OK. He just came to visit us with his wife and we all had so much fun!!
I have always loved this movie but I always did think Val was an asshole
Haha yup. I mean I get why he needed to be, dramatically, but oof it is hard to watch how demanding he is.
I know children who were raised by gay parents, and they would never have such shame for a parent like Val had. Those two men obviously did an amazing job raising him, loving and providing for him, and to have Val act like their "gayness" is something new and weird to him isn't very realistic.
100%
Yep. Especially how he makes Nathan Lane's character feel.
@@MattBaume I never really thought of Val as a character. He and Barbara are a plot device the cause all sorts of hijinks to happen but aren't particularly fun or interesting themselves.
It does make the two Dads look even more heroic. Unconditional love well into adulthood.
Beautiful comment.
I love where u r coming from , i interpreted it as internalized homophobia
The problem I see is its them also tolerating emotinoal abuse for the sake of love which isn't so good.
Well put. The son is an incredible ass. But Williams and Lane are amazing. How does a kid raised by two loving gay parents end up like that? I can maybe see Williams as being the more "dad" dad and Lane being more of the "mom" dad if that is a thing. But basically growing up seeing people bigoted against the loving people who raised you and suddenly you side with the bigots?
I get that this is needed for conflict. But the tone of the kid just comes off as entitled ahole. Make it so the girlfriend has visited before and they all love each other, but bigoted senator wants to meet them. Kid politely begs dads to pretend to be dad and uncle and play straight. Bring in mom to play mom. Uh oh mom can't make it so Lane becomes mom. Same set up. Just make the kid feel awful about forcing them to do it. The girlfriend can go in on making the changes. Just make the son less of an ass.
This has always been one of those movies that I love, but hate a little bit. Val always made me so mad, but Robin Williams and Nathan Lane are just so great together, and Hank Azaria is hilarious. A conflicting fave for sure.
+Kristen Swanson Agreed, and for some reason I always found Dianne Wiest's performance engaging as well.
Yes! She's always great. And Gene Hackman.
+Kristen Swanson Agreed!
+Kristen Swanson Hackman in drag looked like Margaret Whiting.
Kristen Swanson
Don't forget the small but amazing part of Ms.Baranski☝
To me this wouldn’t be so bad if Val had some sort of epiphany about what he did and truly apologized. If they ever do another remake it then that’s the change they should make.
Watching this, I wondered that too. Like what MaGiCaLlY changed in Val's brain to be like "hey my dads ARE actually really great!"
@@BitsyGem I rewatched it recently and I think the character beats are there, it's just they aren't focused on. Like we're supposed to assume this idea is slowly growing in his brain as things progress but it's so subtle that it may as well not even be there. I know the show, don't tell rule but this is a case where some tell would be nice to help redeem Val.
Although despite it all, this version of Val is still an improvement over the one in the French original. The kids might as well been plank from Ed, Edd and Eddy. Some scenes they don't even move or speak as all the chicanery is going on.
his one redeeming moment is when he calls albert his real mother at the end, but its not enough to make him a likeable character
@@ileolai if he had stood up to the senator and said, no, Barbara is staying with me, I think that would have done it. It wouldn’t have changed the plot, since Keeley could have still grabbed Barbara’s arm and tried to leave with her, and the camera flash etc could have continued as normal. In fact, that would have been better since keeleys dramatic arc and character change would have been even more intense.
I've always hated the character of Val. He's a horrible, selfish bastard of a character. He's been around Arnold his Entire life, but his reaction to having a gay step-father is like he just woke up from a twenty year Pence-enduced coma. As a gay step-father I'm glad to say that my step-daughter is Nothing like this brat.
When I watched the Birdcage as a kid, I thought Val was the protagonist. As an adult, I realized it was really a movie about Armond and Albert's relationship.
What exactly was the master plan here? To fool the senator and never be around Val's family again? Or put on an act every xmas and thanksgiving?
To act out his homophobia and Blane it on the senator.
Tekno Pathetic he has a weird way of showing his love
I think that, since they were staunch conservatives, the idea was it would have been just as shameful for Barbara to get divorced as it would be to admit that she was married to a man who came from a same-sex parent home. So kind of to trap Sen. Keeley into a situation where he had to bad choices, but only one of them would also make his daughter sad.
@@tyrant-den884 Being a kid with two dads back then would not have made it easy for him growing up. He's not a homophobe lol Val isn't the one voting for anti gay policies
Hello Matt I am a straight man who has always hated traditional masculinity (my mom was always forcing me to not show emotions and god forbid I ever cried in front of her, all of this since I was around 5) So I sort of know how it feels, trying to act all the time, second guessing your every move, It wasn't till I met my wife and some gay friends that I was finally able to act the way I wanted and it was liberating, now I really like gay culture, it's funny, charming and some of the bravest men can be found within your ranks. I promise I will never stop fighting along side you guys and I promise that I will make it my mission to show you guys that not all straight men are assholes, truth be told, most straight men also suffer under the fetishisation of masculiny.
You sir are one of the great ones!
Michael Mitchell I don't hate masculinity at all, masculinity is great, brave and protective towards others. What I hate is toxic masculinity, the stupid, reductive ideas that some people have about masculinity, like aggressiveness, violence, repression of your own feelings, all those characteristic that turn men into abusive, unhappy people.
Michael Mitchell Sure dude, whatever you say.
Michael Mitchell You behave like a bully, not like a man. Also your idea that there is only one way to be a man makes you sound like a caveperson, not like a "man". You're toxic.
screw off michael, christian is in the right here -- good on you christian
Bravo!!!!! I always thought Val was an Ass. He really was ungrateful from the beginning to the end.
I never thought of The Birdcage in that light. What makes this more amusing to me, is that the actor who played Val, went on to play a recently out gay man in Will & Grace.
Davira Kuy That's true, he also wrote the film Capote. This guy is al over gay media.
"The Birdcage" is one of my favorite movies. The stellar performances by Williams, Lane, Hackman and Weiss always distracted me from Val's incredible dipshittery. It's the ancient "denied mother" story, one of humanity's saddest, tucked into a zany comedy. I hope I'll still be able to enjoy it after watching your searingly spot-on review!
I think it’s still enjoyable. I wanted to punch Val in the face the whole time honestly
My wife and I are always on about how infuriating Val is as a character. He never has to pay for being a prick, he planned the whole thing poorly and he treated both of his parents like garbage. I literally searched 'Val is a Dick the Birdcage' on youtube and here we are. Thank you for voicing what we've been shouting for literal years.
I saw this as a little kid and remember hating that “son” and couldn’t understand why he didn’t realize how lucky he is to have a family that loves him so much! And the girl loved him and adored his family as they were...
I think what's important here is context. We're looking at a 1973 play turned movie (La Cage aux Folles) remade into a 1996 movie (essentially the exact same script with a few slight differences) viewed through 2015 lenses. A lot has changed in 40 years, though the script itself hadn't. It's easy to paint Val as a horrid villain, but while his behavior is asinine on many levels, his behavior is based on fear--something we should all be familiar with. Letting this fear rule him leads to a lot of horrible behavior on his part, but in the end, the outcome was positive (though telling a senator in the middle of a crisis that your fiance's parents are gay and run a nightclub with drag queens is probably not the proper way to get a "meet the parents" evening). Is Val truly villainous? Hardly. He's a heartless jerk due to his own societal fears, that much comes across, but perhaps the true villain of the film is the society that makes people so terrified of being who they are that they feel the need to blatantly lie and harm the ones they love simply to be accepted.
Agreed. When I watched La Cage aux Folles I was surprised at how line-by-line the remake was (even the scenes which one would think would've been tailored to Robin William's comedy where actually lifted from the original). I only remember two rather small scenes that where different (one being the reveal of Albert/Albin as Val's actual mother - in the original it was Renato/Bernard that did it - which the remake shifted to Val - one tiny thing that I suppose did help humanize Val a little more).
I think we should be viewing the movie through 1973 eyes and not 1996 eyes (which in heinsight Val's actions do feel a little archaic for 1996 but would've been slightly more understandable in 1973)
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
You’re really bending over backwards to make the son seem less villainous-when you yourself are ignoring the context of this video. Ironic, no? Baume is analyzing THE BIRDCAGE, not La Cauge (I’m misspelling that). If an adaptation cannot stand on its own without the context of its original source, it’s not a good movie. Comparisons can surely be made but you’re just resisting Baume’s analysis because you don’t agree with it.
But honestly, La cage aux folles never felt so cringe or asinine. Something was lost in the translation, or something was added in the adaptation, that makes a lot of difference.
@@gregoryeatroff8608.. yes, master Yoda .. 😊
That's exactly what I thought! I'm shocked that Val gets the happy ending instead of him going off somewhere while Armand and Albert stayed friends with the Senator's family, and the daughter married some nice guy.
By the end he just seems like _everyone's_ enemy.
Master Markus - that would have been a fab plot twist!
Yes! I'm so pissed off by the son.
I saw The Birdcage for the first time as a teenager with my Dad, and Val ALWAYS bothered me. I just didn’t understand how someone could treat their parents like that.
I avoided the movie early on due to homophobia. I was attacked as a teen leaving me feeling like most gay men were predatory. Upon actually watching the Birdcage, I laughed myself sick. Until I realized something. Nathan Lane's character had to hide who he was. This struck me as profoundly sad. It still brings tears to my eyes. He went through so much to support his douchey son, hide himself so much, changed who he essentially was because he loved his son. The fact that people have and still may have to live as someone they aren't is pretty gutwrenching to me.
@e causey I hope not. I am flawed beyond belief. Any wisdom I acquired was hard won and often at great cost.
"One does want a hint of color."
I was was molested several times as a teen and although it never made me homophobic it did make it hard for me to fully embrace my bisexuality until a couple of years ago. I still struggle with it sometimes but I'm finding ways to cope, I hope you are O.K. Love from an internet stranger.
@@prestonbruchmiller497 Sorry to hear that, maybe therapy can help deal with that trauma. Of course it's all your decision.
I think that's kinda why they put so much stress on how young Val is. C'mon, we all did stupid selfish things when we were young (and hopefully look back on these mistakes with a degree of shame... it's part of how we grow into decent humans). I like to think he outgrew it. Doesn't detract from your point, though... he is a total D-bag, and certainly the cause of conflict far more than the senator is.
Yo I've been realized this shit lol we're supposed to feel sorry for him in the movie but the way he treated his own mother, his real mother not the last who just gave birth to him, it was disgusting.
While I agree with a lot of what you've said, you seem to have missed an important plot point, that may have changed the conversation a bit. It wasn't Val who started this lie, it was Barbara. Val tells his dad that Barbara was the one who told her family that Armand was a cultural attache and that Albert was a housewife. We actually see this happen when Barbara tells her parents she's engaged.
Emeraldskye11017 Val could’ve ended it. It’s not that difficult
Emeraldskye11017 also if this is Barbara’s idea then why did she mention being happy to get to know his dads
@@quirkyblackenby Because she was happy to know them, she told the lie to her family not because she didn't like the idea of 2 father-in-laws but that she feared her family wouldn't let her have that.
*standing ovation* Val made me so violently angry when I first saw this movie I thought I might literally spontaneously combust. You put very eloquently what I can only convey through loud, incoherent rants.
When I saw the Birdcage I kept thinking "Am I supposed to hate val? They're writing says yes but the editing says no. I hate him any way."
I love this movie, but you are absolutely right. What Val did to his two dads was reprehensible. He cared more about what his possible father-in-law thought more than the two people who raised him.
La Cage Musical does the story more justice.. the son actually learns a lesson!! lol
The musical is great.
Just saw it myself. While his plan still sucks, he at least seems more at heart with it. As in he doesn’t sound disgusted with Georges.
You made a lot of really great points, many of which I'd never considered before! I think it's also really important to mention, though, the fact that Val wants to hide the fact that he and his father are Jewish. It's not just the queerness of his family something he thinks he needs to hide, but his heritage and faith.
I just watched this movie for the first time (because I'm a terrible human) and was also completely struck by how awful Val was. There was no sense of closeness or of family between him and his dads. It was awful. I chocked it up to the fact that the movie was made in 1996 so maybe the way to regard gay characters was a really underdeveloped thing (this is a ridiculous justification, though) and also that it's a farce, but yeah, he sours the movie for sure. Nathan and Robin were pure brilliance, though.
Agreed, but I always chocked this up in part to Dan Futterman's poor acting. His performance, as well as Calista Flockhart's who played his fiance, were the weak points of the movie for me, especially glaring when contrasted with the brilliant performances of the top notch actors they were working with.
He seemed embarrassed by Albert from the beginning of the movie. Just a nasty person.
@@perfumaphilia3246 Calista Flockhart always struck me as kind of "ghoulish" in her acting AND in real life. Watch some of her past interviews about her supposed bout with anorexia. Yeeeeeesh!
You've put into a video just what I've thought about this movie for years! I have a love-hate relationship with the film. I love so many of the lines, characters, and comedy, but Val makes me so angry! He brings this conflict into his parents' lives and is willing to destroy everything they've built for themselves. What was he going to do if he and Barbara got married and the entire family was there? Have his father pretend again to be heterosexual? Continue on for the rest of their lives under that lie? His parents' relationship was falling apart in front of his very eyes and he sat back and had the nerve to say "Try not to walk. Don't gesture. Just don't talk much." He was cruel, selfish, and unapologetic.
"When the schnecken becken"... I love Albert!
I’ve always loved that line!!
I was terrified you were going to rip one of my favorite movies apart, but you were 100%. I've watched it a million times, and now I get to enjoy it that much more. Thank you.
It's a shame to reduce the narrative to heroes vs. villains. We've all done things we were ashamed of, things we knew at that time were wrong but did anyway. That was what was so beautiful about the film. People aren't heroes and villains. They're people who just want to be happy and want to get by. It's not the people who never make mistakes and never hurt anyone else that are worth our empathy, sympathy and admiration. Those people don't exist. And films about those people aren't just inauthentic. They're dull.
I felt the same way. Playing off the homophobia for laughs just made me cringe.
Fabulous! I love you for pointing this out, and saying so well what I've always thought of this movie.
Robin Williams and I would get slices of pizza down the street from where I grew up. Later, I found out he was catching 12-step meetings near there. Years ago, I went to the pizza place, and there was still a picture of the two of us seated by the window albeit sun faded now.
The original French movie is much better and does not portray the son as an insensitive homophobic ass. Albert is kind of tamed compared to the original. Gurl!, you ain't seen flaming until you watch Albin in action. it's amazingly funny.
Nobody can touch Robin Williams the greatest ever out lived comedian, and the French version was way too homophobic and not funny.
Ya but original's also a plank of wood. I swear most of the movie he's just sitting in the background doing NOTHING. The American version has some problems but at least you can safely say he is a character. And whenever they decide to do a remake making him understand what he's done more would be the major change I'd want to see.
Also this isn't coming from a gay perspective since I'm not gay, this is coming from a stepchild perspective and always feeling this part of the story wasn't quite right.
I only remember seeing a little bit of the French version. All I remember is Albert getting slapped for being hysterical.
@@Lab_Member_X the American version actually fixes one problem. You'll remember the scene where Robin Williams bumps into the one guy while teaching Albert how to be manly and decides to double down on being a macho jerk and then gets beaten up. Thats still funny because it was Robin Williams fault and is getting a bit of comeuppance for being a jerk to a random stranger.
The French version has a scene where some assholes are making fun of the swishy Albert at a bar, Armand stands up for the person he loves and he's beaten up for his trouble...funny?
@@junegiovanni6475 Nathan Lane played Albert.
My name is Joe and I found your video, Matt, very insightful - as I expected (LOVE Your Videos! Sometimes they move me to tears!) - I remember that we had the Showtime Network on cable when I was a young adolescent and I saw movies that I would Never have seen otherwise - one of those was the French film, 'La Cage aux Folles' (I'm pretty sure they showed it late at night so it wouldn't 'accidentally' be viewed by young children - I remember well staying up late to watch - and rewatch - films that I Liked which fit this category) - I recall how VERY VERY FUNNY I found that French movie (subtitled) to be... and since it was the 1980s at that time and HIV & AIDS were causing much suffering in this world, I was not wanting to mature into a homosexual man... but that movie helped me to realize that while I might be afraid of my own budding sexuality, I did Not need to be afraid of gay men... years later I would realize that I could be afraid of a Deadly Virus, and afraid of my own potentially Bad Judgment, but I Still didn't need to fear gay men in general... and as a college student I realized that I could find a way to allow myself to be gay and still minimize my risk of contracting HIV/Dying of AIDS... my 1st ex was significantly older than I and very aware of how I felt, and also a big proponent of "safe sex" and fidelity in gay relationships. We met in 1991 in Chicago Illinois and moved together to Minnesota in the summer of 1995... A few months later we both experienced shock as a brutal cold wave descended on the Upper Midwest, with daily high temps of -40 in the Twin Cities. 'The Birdcage' came out at this time and we went to the movies to see it; my significant other said, "I LOVE These Actors - Robin Williams and Nathan Lane - BOTH SO FUNNY - and their costars... Dan Futterman [who played Val] has been a gay character in Other Films, and he's Very Believable! (WINK!)" [We Always Wondered... being gay ourselves - about actors' potential for being Gay/Bi] - "And - Joe - as a Florida Native [I'm from Daytona Beach] - I thought it would cheer you up to see your home state on the big screen ['The Birdcage' was set in South Beach, Miami] - during this Cold Wave!" [He was RIGHT!] I was acutely aware, since the reactions of members of my own family to my Coming Out had been quite diverse, that the characters onscreen were not as different from people we Knew as we might've Wished... and I am actually very happy to see that Younger gay men [like YOU - Matt Baume!] Can get angry at Val's behavior NOW, when I didn't blink an eyelid at it in 1996! Thank Heaven for Progress! [I'm sad that Progress has not been Universal or Steady... and Many people have disappointed me - one movie I watched multiple times late at night on Showtime was the Australian film, "Gallipoli' - sigh... my pubescent self fell madly in lust with the ass of a beautiful young Aussie named Mel Gibson... and Man, what a disappointment HE turned out to be!!!] But the good news is that when the dust finally settled even my most homophobic siblings eventually came around and accepted Me Fully As I Am - and this happened while we were Still in the 1990s! So I am Grateful for having the opportunity to be "Out and Proud" for 30 years now... and I know better than to take it for granted when there are still too many places in this world that are hotspots of homophobic hatred.
Side note: as an adopted child, I never understood Val's desire to connect to Katherine. He had two loving parents who raised him, and I can't in any way imagine a scenario where he might think that this person who was absent his entire life, who knew where to find him if she wanted to be a part of his life but didn't, might be a better "mother" to him than Albert. I've never felt like it was a good idea or something I really wanted to do for my own life, so why did Val think it was good for his?
Brilliant. I’ve watched most of your vids the last few days, and the tone of this one is so very different, so justifiably enraged. I hadn’t even thought of this when I was the film in first release, but your absolutely on point. Excellent summation.
I love The Birdcage... was the first gay movie I ever watched with my Dad (he was against it, but ended up loving it) and you are so right Val was a POS. But every story needs conflict.
The ENTIRE plot of the movie revolves around this aspect....that's the whole point.
He "begrudgingly" said Albert was his Mom? No, that's what the movie led up to. It was him FINALLY accepting Albert into his life. Notice how at the end, Albert is crying and interrupting the wedding ceremony and Val smiles.
That is one of my all time favorite movies, and your right Val is totally the village of the movie!
Wow, your commentary is SOLID GOLD!
I've been wanting to shake Val for being such a jerk for years. Thank you for saying that better than I ever could.
I can understand Matt making a point, but he sounds like my partner a lot when he talks back to characters on the TV making bad choices, and I have to remind him 'If those people didn't act like that the movie/TV show story line would be pretty boring'. This movie is one of my favorites I can watch over and over and always be entertained (and I still use a lot of the lines as come backs - "Wish wigs?"). But if you want to see nastiness, watch the original French film where there is open hostility between the gays and the straights.
I think people might be reading too much into Vals motivations. He’s panicking because the parents of the woman he loves are bigots who would stop them marrying. He behaves like he does to his fathers because of that panic.
And the beautiful thing is that his dads understand his pain and do everything they can so he can marry his fiancé.
I think it’s a wonderful film about the relationship between parents and their offspring and the sacrifices parents make to protect them.
I don't know how Val would ever think he could hold this charade Forever he knew his future in laws would find out eventually
They did need a scene where Val makes amends for his behavior but also needed a actor who was actually 21. The idea I think they were going for was youthful selfishness which we all had and promoted many of us do really stupid and hurtful things.
I think I remember feeling the same way about Val the first time I watched it. It's like, he got a slight taste of "normal" and immediately sided against his own father and step-dad. Don't forget that Armand was Jewish in the film, and his own fiance got in on the subterfuge and pretended they had a different last name to hide that fact as well. Had things gone as planned, it's pretty obvious what would have happened after the wedding. Val would have cut Armand and Albert out of his life completely, especially having been the son-in-law of a Senator and having access to money.
I've watched this movie a dozen times, and I've always felt so icky whenever Val talks, but it wasn't until this video that I was really able to understand why.
That's what's so pernicious about his characters -- he just makes being gay seem so illicit and unpleasant, when just the opposite is true. He should be standing up for his family!
Considering how each of them were raised, it’s interesting how quickly Barbara comes around to accepting the idea of having gay relatives and how quickly Val seems to relish in taking on others’ prejudices.
Also bear in mind that Barbara’s parents are only okay with her getting married at 18 because it will distract from their scandal, so they also are inclined to exploit family members. The families should have traded kids
THANK YOU! I've always ranked Val among the more hateable villains of the silver screen.
I just watched this last night with my daughter and never realized that Val is the TRUE villain of the movie. He really upset me as I watched it. At least at the end he claimed both his parents and that made me feel better
I haven't even seen your video yet and I already agree 100%. I always hated Val for how he treated Albin. Albin has been his second father his whole life. Yet, Val treats him like this horrible, huge embarrassment. If Albin had just been in his father's life a few years, I'd still find it upsetting. But, really, Albin has been in Val's life his Entire life. It's not that the future father in law is such a prick, but that the son he's helped raise could so easily turn on Albin and discard him. And, the other part I hate, is how is he getting "good job offers" when he's on,y half way through college? Not to mention he's been having sex with an underage girl. (He's 20 and she's 18, but they've been having sex for a year.). Overall, I love this movie and the musical, but I've always really been pissed at Val for treating Albin like crap. Thus concludes my rant. ☺️
Oops. I forgo they changed his name to Albert in the movie. It's Albin in the musical. I'm watching the video and getting more upset with Val. You're so right!!! He's an abuser! Ugh!!! Val is now my nemesis! Lol.
"Her dad is also in the entertainment industry- he is a senator" 🤣 LMAO
good points! Didn't see that way before but you make so much sense!
Thanks for this. I have always believed this. It’s even worse in the stage musical because the son has to sit through a entire song about his relationship to his father and remain unmoved. I took a class in NYC with John Weiner who not only originated the son but played him for the entire 3 and a half year run. We had a couple conversations about his flawed character.
I mostly remember Robin Williams' question, when the gay press pressed him on the portrayal: "What more did we have to do? Did we have to kiss.?' My response is, 'Yes. That would have been nice. Just a peck on the cheek.' I've always been a bit unnerved by the Birdcage, but this review really sticks the knife in why. I cried watching this review. I have a love/hate relationship with this film, like Kristen does. Robin Williams and Nathan Lane are wonderful in it, though the 'Celluloid Closet' Vito Russo voice in my head groans. The book politically activated me. At least no one died in the Birdcage.
I remember watching the film- and feeling so sorry for the fathers. Like Albert is treated so dirty, and I felt so sad when he tried to play straight and then had to disguise completely. Like bad son who won’t stand up for his fathers, and I know you love her but she has to be ready to marry into your family as you are hers. What does he expect to do for their wedding? The rest of their lives?
Another fantastic video Matt. Thanks for making them. Although I agree with your analysis, you failed to take into account this story dates from the early 70s, when Val's behaviour was very normal. I think that Val represents society's attitude toward the gay lifestyle, and considering the times, a very liberal one. It was important to show his homophobia so that society would see itself in him. His parent's loving and accomodating response I think had the effect of making it easier for audiences to relate to Val and reflect on their own homophobia.
Rolando Rios If that’s the case, why is the analysis of Val as somewhat homophobic not more common? Are you saying audiences of 1996-now are stupid?
@@stormcloudsabound Not stupid, but more.... as time passes culture shifts occur In this case the homophobia aspect. When the story was written Val's character was meant to be more sympathetic for audiences, able to put themselves in his shoes and bringing to light internal uncomfortable truths such as homophobia and the fear of meeting your partner's parents. As times changed and acceptance became more common (though by 96, still not as good as it should have been especially in conservative areas of the US) the concept behind Val's character became more dated and we didn't see it as homophobia but more being as pooy faced jerk (other explanatives can be added here too). This can be attributed to us as a culture already being aware of our internal homophobias and know how working with that can be a challenge, still giving us understanding why Val wasn't so open with the Senator as with his Fiancé, but at the same point knowing that is not how anyone should treat their parents. I think a pysc major could explain it a bit better though
I would agree, but there is one little fact that you overlooked.
Barbara was the one that started the lie and the senator was snooping into her life by listening into her calls. Barbara probably knew her parents better than val, and told val that if they wanted to get married, they needed to keep this secret.
The reason for the secret was because Barbara knew her parents wouldn't let her marry val because of his parents. She even said as they were leaving that she knew that her parents wouldn't let her marry into the family.
She was wrong, but we don't know how long that took after the evening in question.
But I do agree that val did not treat his parents very well. He could have handled it better. He was dick about it.
Still, he did have reason to believe that his father would go along with the plan because his father hid being gay before for the benefit of his son.
Thank you! I have been saying this for years!
This has a similar energy to the “Grandpa Joe was the antagonist” argument in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory; in that IT COMPLETELY MAKES SENSE.
You should review 'The Sum of Us", Same era, but a very different slant on being, just gay. Thanks for your reviews, enjoying immensely a revisit of movies past.
+GreatGazukes I sure agree on this. "The Sum of Us" effected me deeply. I knew I had to marry my husband in order to avoid any chance of meeting the fate of Russell Crowe's Grandmothers.
A lovely film.
This is a horrible son and I honestly never realized how bad he was, until I saw the original 1970s film.
The original french film is so much better and funnier. Though the US film is still very good. Pip pip
+Ep Steed Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
Agreed. I think it was the first foreign film I ever saw and I just loved it. It has been a long time, but I think Laurent was a bit more loving towards his dads in the original.
So true
Ep Steed the original is ten times more homophobic....not even funny
You should see it in the original Kingon!
Just saw a Reddit story where a guy was asked by his girlfriend to only bring one of his moms over for dinner and ask her to pretend she's straight because her parents were conservative and she didn't want them to know that the guy was raised by two moms. the guy was confused because he couldn't understand asking that of his mothers and decided to break up with the girl instead when she showed that she was just as homophobic as her parents. The comments introduced me to birdbrain as the movie.
Val a villain is a bit much, to me it was no different than movies where the child is embarrassed of a poor or uneducated parent. At the time it was considered a progressive movie. It wasn't an earth shattering movie but enjoyed parts. Compare it to boys in the band where all the characters were basically unhappy messes, which made you think that as gay men we'd never find happiness. Birdcage atleast gives you a happy ending
+TPR38655 Agreed, to me Val seemed misguided and a bit insensitive, but not really villainous. The movie was more of a social commentary on what was considered societal norms and how most people don't actually fit those norms even if they pretend that they do. So there really wasn't a villain beyond society in general, at least, that's how I took it.
That’s what I was thinking. I was a kid when this came out, but I seem to remember this being a super progressive movie, and the general attitude was that the son was reasonably cautious. Of course that doesn’t excuse it, but it was more fitting of the time.
A movie needs a source of conflict to be iterating and set up for humor. This plot worked. Society has changed these past thirty years. It's not fair to judge history by current social ideals.
This movie demonstrates that everyone wants to fit in.
Well said, and totally agreed. Val is incredibly selfish and callous the whole movie through, and never ONCE gives Albert the basic dignity of sitting down with him and speaking plainly about his fears in facing Barbara's parents. He tiptoes around Albert the whole time, acting like Albert is some terrible thing he can't directly address.
Honestly, I think Val is a manifestation of straight America's subconscious bias. The movie assumes the audience is part of straight America, and that of course they'll automatically sympathize with Val's "plight" of having to navigate having gay parents. It doesn't seem to take the perspective of its gay characters as seriously.
you are right, and I thought the same when I saw the movie
i just rewatched this, and i'd really like Matt to do a deeper dive on this, because i had forgotten how much this movie really is a perfect snapshot of the public conversation around gay people in the mid-90s. throughout the film, there's an emphasis on how Albert and Armand are a family, who have raised a (straight!) son-- pointing out that gay people want to have families like anyone else, and tearing those families apart is cruel. Armand worries about being thrown out of his own house with no legal recourse, and there's a minor plot point where Armand and Albert sign a legal document that officially gives half their possessions to the other person-- pointing out the legal struggles that gay people faced with not having the same protections as a married couple. it absolutely excoriates the hypocrisy of conservative politicians who hopped on homophobic talking points for popularity and attention despite not actually caring much one way or another when it comes down to it. and, even though some of the stereotypes are over the top-- gay men do not typically decorate their entire house with penises-- they have the effect of showing how impossible it is to hide who you are, and how painful it is to try. (i actually winced when Armand tucks his Star of David into his shirt.) Albert's drama queen behavior is played for laughs in the beginning, but in the "and you hate me" scene, his feelings are taken completely seriously by the film, and he ends up being the only competent one of the bunch.
and it came out twenty years before marriage equality! a hilarious farce movie that put the very real issues facing gay people right in the audience's face. and never once makes light of them.
THANK YOU! I had to pause the movie when Nathan Lane tried to stutter his way through a defense of his colourful socks and that spoiled little shitbird glared at him because I was crying too loud to hear the dialogue. I honestly expected his girlfriend to dump him at the end of the movie - this level of disrespect for your family is _the reddest of flags._
I am absolutely loving your channel and your personality
THANK YOU! I've been saying this for years and I'm always looked at like I'm the inanse one!
I'm a touch more sympathetic to Val. He's a teen in love, and will do anything to make Barbie(ra) his wife. And Barbara must have put Val up to this; she knows her own father, after all, and she's at least complicit in this plan. They're just kids with hormones, so they get a begrudging pass; as Bruce Villanch sarcastically noted of the Val-hate at the time of the film's release, "Yeah, yeah, we're all nice to our parents at that age."
The real villains are the press, who are arrogant, selfish, and jump at the chance to exploit a private family situation for their own gain. And, yes, they do get the "villain edit" in this movie. It's the threat of exposure of selective facts that motivates everything in this story, so they are the bad guys in general, and the specific villain is Tom McGowan's muckraker who "put on so much weight since the Simpson case."
Val knew that the senator was extremely homophobic. So he was trying to pull the wool over his eyes in order to get married. (Hence the screwball comedy that ensues.) Both fathers knew that Val's marriage would never happen if the senator found out they were gay. That's why both of them went to such extremes for their son. I suppose if you had your way, the movie would be over in 15 minutes. The senator fully accepts the gay couple (regardless of how if would effect his political career as an ultra-conservative), and the son and daughter get married. The end! Sounds like a boring movie, if you ask me.
Also keep in mind that socially there was a different mindset about gay people a decade ago. That's like getting angry about the two transphobic jokes in Mrs. Doubtfire, even though the movie is 22 years old.
Laurent in the French original _La Cage aux Folles_ appeared to be younger than his counterpart, Val, in the American _The Birdcage_, so we were able to cut a bit more slack for Laurent.
I saw this originally in a stage performance, so my feelings on it are skewed, but at least on stage, Val had a very small role. He was a typical immature, self-centered 19yo and though he was the reason for the drama that unfolded, his role was really just there to set things going story-wise. The conflict between Armand and Albert was really what the play was about, and Albert was the real hero, as he struggled for acceptance, even against the man he'd spent his life with. In English and in modern times, Val's need to get married makes zero sense anyway. As for his selfishness... That's teenagers for you. they can't see past the tips of their noses. And maybe Armand and Albert were weak parents for giving in to Val's request, but even there we see that the main tension is between Armand and Albert. In the play, at the end of the first act Albert is singing "I am what I am" sadly, and the reason is he feels hurt by Armand. Not by Val.
FWIW, IMO you can't blame 19yos for being ungrateful and selfish. That's their nature. It's like being upset at a toddler for tipping over a plant. It's up to parents to judge how far they'll go to make their kids' lives easier.
I adore La Cage-both in English and in French. But the movie was really trying to stretch a bunch of plot points too far and I fear that a lot of the theme got lost in translation.
You missed the entire point of the movie. What this movie is about is the extreme lengths that parents will go through for their children. Despite the rather absurd ending, Armand knows that Val will not be able to marry his fiance without this charade.
While Val was a bit of a jerk, he didn't *begrudgingly* admit everything at the end. Val--after spending the evening with Albert as the life of the party--he realized he was mistaken for acting the way he had throughout the movie and was trying to atone. And he only acted the way he did because he knew his fiance wouldn't marry him without her parent's blessing. That was my takeaway anyway.
Yeah, and this video also ignores the part where he outright says to his dad that he's afraid of getting hurt if he's honest about his family. His insensitive actions don't come from a place of malice, and he grows a lot through the story. I really don't think this movie is meant to have a "villain" anyway - it's about love and family and acceptance. Those are concepts that the central characters all struggle with, in different ways
The Birdcage is a masterpiece of comedy and lessons for life.
+Derek Williams
It can't touch the Original French Production.
La Cage Aux Folles
Agree! "La Cage Aux Folles" (the French film, not the musical) isn't so heavy handed, but gets the point across loud, clear, and in a far funnier manner. If you can get a hold of this film, it is definitely a Must See.
The son being an ungrateful, insensitive prick is kinda the whole premise of he story. The senator is a side character that plays a small part.
I just love your work!
"Bob Dole is GORGEOUS."
I'm not gay, the thing is I didn't like this movie as a comedy, however I found it very powerful as an actual love story between Robin Williams and Nathan Lane's characters.
Given the time the original (La Cage Aux Folles) was made, this is to an extent understandable. I do agree that Val is an ass, but I can remember watching Cage and understanding the motives.
Thank you for posting this. I used to think the movie was hilarious as a kid but I rewatched it recently and Val's cruelty hit me much harder.
one of my favorite scenes , gene hackman in drag
Hello Matt. I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work.
BRAVO!!!! Finally someone has the guts to speak the truth about this completely horrible film. Val is one of the most disgusting characters I've ever come across in a movie. He's beyond simply disliking his fathers - HE HATES THEM - and he has no problem showing that hatred especially towards Armand. Armand went through pure hell in this film, and the thing is, this film is supposed to be a comedy but there was nothing funny about the way Armand was treated by the child he loves more then anyone else in the world. Words can't fully express how much I hate this movie thank to the character of Val. He is a serious homophobic bastard!
You are right it is a horrible movie but not just because of Val who, in the original 1978 movie of La Cage Aux Folles is nearly the same BUT he is not as shitty to his dad's as the American version is to his. The real problem is timing and plot points. The Bird Cage came along as the gay rights movement began gaining some real ground so most of the original problems in the original did not translate and thus did not make any farcical sense in TBC. The timing of well done farce is critical and the American version was all over the map so many of the jokes fell flat. There is so much more wrong with TBC but I'd need too much time to explain it all. If you haven't seen the 1978 La Cage Aux Folles movie I suggest you do as the characters are far more tender and rediculous, but in a good way, that you'll find yourself forgiving Val rather than wanting to strangle him.
This is the most cathartic video I have ever seen, thank you
Oh God... You just made me realise this! But still... A fun movie nonetheless.
I would love it if you re did this one now, there are so many more layers to this story both good and bad that I think you could do a full video on it.
Well if Val HAD told the truth, there wouldn't be a movie! 😉
But seriously, great analysis.
Hi Matt, just discovered your channel and I've gone pretty deep on your videos. Particularly the Culture Cruise playlist. Loving them all.
I also went and listened to your episode 19 of your podcast and I'm glad I did.
Keep it up. 🙏
You must remember also that Val is young. He’s in love with a girl that has a father who, they think, will not stand for her fiancés family. They’re desperate, and thus, make some bad decisions. Although what Val does is wrong, I don’t think malice was his intent. I think he was just afraid of losing the woman he loves, and was willing to do anything to keep her. And he had enough trust in his family that he thought they would help him with his scheme. In other words, he knew that they would forgive him eventually.
Just found your channel while in quarantine! I remember watching this when I was kid! My mom loves this film and it was pretty much a family favorite since it was just such a fun film but I do remember my mom always fast forwarding any part with Val unless he was with Nathan Lane or Robin Williams XD Great video!
The original ( French) was WAY BETTER! Second, Val is an ungrateful boob. When a gay dad steps up to the plate over the biological mom, that shows 100% class. Good analysis Matt.
In the movie, the birth mother was very young, and was a one night stand. So, she gave up parental rights.
Didn't it have actual spousal abuse... it was a long time ago that i saw it
When i was a kid i never noticed how bad Val was. I was so taken in by the performances of Robin Williams and Nathan Lane that my focus was on them and the eventual dinner party.
Of course as i got older i was more critical of Val and thought his behavior towards his dads was reprehensible.
Decades ago when I first saw this movie, I thought of the son as the villain! (This is coming from a straight woman.)
I always watch the Birdcage with my cousin. It's one of our favorite movies to watch together. However, we absolutely despise Val. While he is straight, and I am asexual, we both were raised by our respective single mothers. We can't see ourselves being ashamed by not meeting the conservative standards of a nuclear family. Yeah, it sucks to be judged by people, but part of growing up is starting to do give a f... about it. Val is a baby and I still can't believe how two cool and understanding dads had such a bad luck to have him as a son.