Jordan gets alot of blame because the first book written about the incident says that Jordan stated that if Isiah is on the team he wasn't playing. That doesn't mean others didn't have issues with him. Also if I was Max I would be like it's cool for y'all to disagree with my opinion but the disrespect needs to stop. Because Stephen A spent time as a journalist covering basketball doesn't make what he has to saw about the sport law.
Max is really on point. I would pick Stockton over Isiah considering there is Malone in the team. Malone is not Malone without Stockton. They are the best real duo ever (i don't consider Jordan and Pippen a duo, they are more like Master and Student on the first 3 peat and Superman and Batman on the 2nd 3 peat, thus they can stand on each own, more like a 1-2 punch). I would put college Shaquille O'neal though before Laettner and Isiah.
Can u remove Jay from the show please? Whinning and showing stupid facial expressions is not how you debate. It is so annoying to watch, it is almost unwatchable. Please teach him how to debate.
Poor max. He's making a ton of sense. Its like watching him play Cinderella, and her 2 wicked stepsisters keep telling her "You're wrong! Here's why..."
It's the trending topic now. It's fortunate even because the younger generation who haven't experienced old-school bb would learn about the environment inside and outside the court.
Everyone thinks he’s Malone’s sidekick. Dude could have 15/5/15 and 6 steals one night and it would’ve just been another Stockton game. Much better shooter, defender and passer than Thomas. Thomas is overrated because of those rings, you can’t tell me a 60+ win team with prime Karl Malone and Stockton wouldn’t have smoked those pistons. Bill Lambeers skinny as was not gonna stop that boy Karl
2 time champ and finals MVP vs 0 rings. Nobody’s about to rank you high because you put up stats in the regular season. James Harden the GOAT if that’s what we doing 🤦🏾♂️
How can sit there and say that when Isiah was the only superstar player on the team. It was basically him and four guys that played defense extremely well..
assassin216 Isiah Thomas played with Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer etc... John Stockton and Malone had Greg Ostertag, Olden Polynice, Bryon Russell.
Isaiah had underlying issues w everybody. Right or wrong, big names had issues. 3 guys above Isiah Jordan, Magic, Bird... All 3 had issues. Of course most other guys are not nor can they say anything about wanting Isiah on the team. The rest just wanted to be there. Scottie spoke out because Jordan elevated his status, Malone said something yrs later. But Robinson or Stockton, Mullins not gonna talk about Isiah Isiah reminds of that ex girlfriend or black sheep of the family that everybody is pissed at but pretends to not know why.
It was a business decision, from a business perspective. If Magic, Bird,Jordan, Malone and Pippen didn't want to play with Isaiah(which is 60% of the Dream Team) there wouldn't have been no chemistry within the team. 😏 Which would have been poor representation for the U.S
He’s a HOF and he holds the assist record and the steals record so how can y’all say he doesn’t deserve to be on the dream team? He was valid lol he wasn’t better than Isaiah one on one but overrall he’d hold his own against Isaiah don’t do stock like that
Tony D. No you’re wrong. Zeke was battling and outplaying a print Magic Johnson, who’s the bigger and better version of Stockton. Stockton was great but he isn’t close to Zeke
@@thrillwill5 Stockton led the league in assists 9 consecutive years at one point, 1992 being his 5th consecutive of those years. He also had significantly fewer turnovers per game, and more steals per game in their primes, or even career wise. Stockton led the league in steals twice, including 1992. Stockton scored less but shot a way higher %, and shot the 3 at a way higher % too. Even though Stockton played until he was 40, and Thomas only until he was 32, Stockton still shot 8% higher effective field goal % for his career, that's an enormous difference. In fact, he led the league in EFG % once and had 3 straight years of 60% EFG %. Thomas never even had one season of 50% shooting. Thomas led the league in assists once. That's 12 times that Stockton led the league in a major category (assists 9x, steals 2x, EFG % 1x), while Thomas led the league in a major stat 1 time. The only relevant category that Thomas beat Stockton in is points per game, and he did that averaging 7 more shots per game. In 1992 specifically, Thomas averaged 2.7 more points per game, but on a 7% lower effective field goal %, while Stockton was averaging 6.5 more assists per game (almost double the assits)! I'm not sure how anyone could look at two guys who played in the same era, with all the above being true, and dismiss Stockton as being comparable to Thomas.
Bro, John Stockton is one of the smartest players to ever live. This dude had 8 seasons in which he averaged over 12 assist | 1st All-Time in Assist | 1st All-Time in Steals | Career Assist to Turnover Ratio is 10 to 2. | Holds the Nba Record in Averaging 14.5 APG in a season. | Averaged over 14 APG twice in career. He was in the same class as Isiah Thomas. Stockton was a more intelligent, efficient, durable version of Chris Paul, who even made his teammates better. A top 5 Orchestrator of an Offense. Isaiah was a great athletic combo guard but head to head as a Pure Point, Stockton was better. John Stockton WAS THE SYSTEM! Karl Malone was easier to gameplan against & benefited from Stockton.
@@peterwilliams3355 Its funny when it comes to that conversation, "rings" don't matter anymore 🤷♂️. Just proves, ppl only bring that up just to slight players they dont like.
@@fakephoenixprince Of course your supposed properly rank Isiah Thomas higher than Stockton because he won multiple championships. The criteria for ranking, since the beginning, has always been Statistics, Accolades, & Context. Every Top 50 player has that. Isiah has statistics topped off with 2 Rings. But if remove his championships, resume vs resume, Stockton in no way, shape or form pales in comparison to Isiah Thomas. He's actually better. Isiah Thomas is saved by his 2 rings, though he got them nonetheless. Better Career > Better Player.
There's nothing else to talk about lol if they talk about current NBA ppl are also gonna complain how they recycle the same LeBron / Kawhi / Giannis arguments
Stockton/Malone and pippin/Jordan..how many times have we heard "it's not always the best players but the best fit." Is Isaiah one of the best of all time ..yes, but at that time caused to much friction whereas these other guys already had great chemistry. In my humble opinion...
Stockton made Malone more so than any other player helping another player. Stockton over IT imo he’s better defensively better passer and better shooter. All isiah had was a better handle and a lil better drive. Ppl don’t realize Stockton was restricted by the jerry Sloan system he coulda been a perennial 18-23 ppg scorer along with his usual 2 steals 10 apg. He’s so underrated I’m taking him over IT when I’m making a team. Max is right Edit: jay and sa didn’t really say much to support Isaiah besides he was a “better leader” and won. Stockton is a perfect leader and his jazz teams were never as versatile and deep as bad boys and obv didn’t beat ppl up to win(ik it was their style and their 2 chips still count,but let’s be honest about their style)
Ashwin Cheekala I agree to an extent but Isiah was averaging 20+p and I0+a and decided to lower it for the better of his team. This guy best Kareem, bird, magic and Jordan in the playoffs. 12th greatest of all time.
al farouq aminu for 3 way better shooter. Stockton is Nash with all nba defense and lebron durability(if nash had 95 shooting Stockton is like 85 shooting)
If Sloan thought Stockton could've carried them in the Finals I'm sure he would've called his number. How many times did Stockton beat an in prime Magic?
They needed a pass-first point guard that had chemistry with the other guys. It's not an Allstar team! It's about the right pieces not the best players. IT didn't have chemistry as much with those other guys. Stockton was the better player for the role.
I'd rather have Isiah over Stockton any day of the week. Dude was the 2nd best PG of all time. Stockton was legit, but the one guy who probably didn't belong was Mullin. Mullin was a decent shot, but never really accomplished much and is a largely forgotten Hall guy.
Isiah has played in 13 AllStar games..with super star scorers..so the notion that he does't know when to be a pass first gaurd is inexcusable...Isiah..was the prototype to todays 2 way small gaurds yousee today..but he knew how to make other better, and learned later in his career how to reliquish some of the scoring to nhis teammates..isiah could easily put up 25- 30 points every game..but he doesn't becasue he knows when to play the point and when to play the 2
The only obstacle to success for the 1992 Dream Team was team chemistry and ego. If Isiah is a potential source for the team not getting along then he has to stay off the team.
Isiah had played in at least a dozen or more allstar games at this point with most of these guys before in All star games so it wasn't a matter of chemistry or ego..it was a matter of money and politics
@@vivianbutler5851nah you outta pocket here all star game is just an all star game. It isn’t as soft as it is now but it’s still just an all star game and you can’t even compare all star game vs the olympics
@Marvin Banks Most of the players really didn't want him there and unless they were going to pick a whole other team without Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Bird and Magic Isiah wasn't playing. I wasn't mad at all that he was left off of the team.
Kevin Thompson this isn’t a good spot light he’s ode ode good at basketball he didn’t need recognition to confirm what the world already knows , the real problem is everyone loves Jordan basketball was in desperate need of someone like him so if Jordan says I don’t think he’s good for basketball I don’t want him in the dream team everyone is going to take Jordan’s side becuz he is basketball!
Stockton has almost double the assists and double the steals and more career points the only thing missing from his career is a chip. To say Stockton is not in the same class is blasphemous not the other way around.
There actually not...based on the way they play and they're team responsibilities Stockton is the 2nd best pure point gaurd ever..magic is No.1 Isiah is 3rd but all around gaurd..its not even close Stockton is not in Isiahs league
They need to stop acting like Stockton ain't an all time great PG😅. I mean, I get all the Isiah love, but damm, at least be objectively honest guys. Isiah BOX PLUS/MINUS: +2.2 Stockton BOX PLUS/MINUS: +3.5
Nobody has ever said Stockton wasn't an all time great...I think everybody acknowledges Stocktons greatness ...he's just no comparison to Isiah...and those stats are meaningless ..problem with stats is that they don't tell the real story of what goes on on the floor.While Isiah and Stockton may have the ball in there hands for equal periods of time Isiah is required to do more with it..at times Isiah has to be the team scorer Stockton never does..Isiah also penetrates far more often than Stockton, which means you'll get fouled more often and lose the ball more often when you get hit...whether the call is made or not. Isiah is expected to take more chances in big game situations than Stockton is ...with 20 second on the clock in a close game Utah is going to Malone not Stockton, Detroit is going to Isiah (he might score, he might get fouled, he might get stripped or blocked) Stats like plus/minus and win shares are meaningless...Detlef Schrempf, Dana Barros, Reggie Miller, and Stockton were all ahead of Hakeem in win shares in 1995. The year he won his second ring and was at worst...the second best player in the NBA(in reality...the best). Hakeem wasnt even top 10 in win shares -Brent Barry ended up having more win shares than Kidd in 2002. And that was in 02 when midseason Kidd likely would have been voted MVP. -Oh and also that year in 2002...Elton Brand had higher win shares oover Dirk, Shaq(3rd ring year) and KG
Not on the same class? Wow, Stockton is the all time leader in assists and Steals. Went to the Finals twice and played against a lot of great teams in the West back in the 90’s. Stockton is right up there among the great point guards of all time including Zeke.
@@mikekillagreen9432 Stockton led the league in assists 9 consecutive years at one point, 1992 being his 5th consecutive of those years. He also had significantly fewer turnovers per game, and more steals per game in their primes, or even career wise. Stockton led the league in steals twice, including 1992. Stockton scored less but shot a way higher %, and shot the 3 at a way higher % too. Even though Stockton played until he was 40, and Thomas only until he was 32, Stockton still shot 8% higher effective field goal % for his career, that's an enormous difference. In fact, he led the league in EFG % once and had 3 straight years of 60% EFG %. Thomas never even had one season of 50% shooting. Thomas led the league in assists once. That's 12 times that Stockton led the league in a major category (assists 9x, steals 2x, EFG % 1x), while Thomas led the league in a major stat 1 time. The only relevant category that Thomas beat Stockton in is points per game, and he did that averaging 7 more shots per game. In 1992 specifically, Thomas averaged 2.7 more points per game, but on a 7% lower effective field goal %, while Stockton was averaging 6.5 more assists per game (almost double the assits)! I'm not sure how anyone could look at two guys who played in the same era, with all the above being true, and dismiss Stockton as being comparable to Thomas.
Its not Stocktons fault either Stockton rightfully deserves his place among the greats and they should just let it go at that...he's no comparison to Isiah..they're games are not the same , there teams had different needs, thier skillsets are different..and Zeke has a better skill set by far. Stop comparing the 2 there's no comparison..its like comparing Kyre Irving to Chris Paul (except Isiah was truer to the point position than Kyre but could handle and score like Kyre..and CP3 has a handle Stockton could only dream of) They we're both truly great point gaurds who provided what they're team needed..but Stockton was not a franchise player Isiah..Utah was built around Malone not Stockton to take them to the promise land, Detroit was built around Isiah to take them to the promise land and he did...twice
Albert Elazar sorry for having a different opinion, since you are so educated about the game of basketball please explain to the congregation on why my choice is wrong?
Isaiah was better than Stockton in almost every basketball category you can think of! He was a much better scorer, shooter, and leader, he was also a great passer, and a 2 time champion on top of that The only thing that Stockton has over Isaiah, is he had a lot more career assists, and steals over him, that's it. Stockton was a great player don't get me wrong, BUT HE'S NO ISAIH, NOT EVEN CLOSE!
Albert Elazar Games played *Stockton = 1504 *Thomas = 979 PTS *Stockton = 13.1 *Thomas = 19.2 FGM/FGA/% *Stockton = 4.7/9.1/.510 *Thomas = 7.3/16.2/.452 3PM/3PA/% *Stockton = 0.6/1.5/.384 *Thomas = 0.4/1.4/.290 2PM/2PA/% *Stockton = 4.1/7.6/.541 *Thomas = 6.9/14.8/.468 eFG% *Stockton = .546 *Thomas = .465 FTM/FTA/FT% *Stockton = 3.2/3.9/.826 *Thomas = 4.1/5.4/.759 ORB/DRB/TRB *Stockton = 0.6/2.1/2.7 *Thomas = 1.0/2.6/3.6 AST/TOV *Stockton = 10.5/2.8 *Thomas = 9.3/3.8 STL/BLK *Stockton = 2.2/0.2 *Thomas = 1.9/0.3 Achievements *Stockton -10x All Star -2x steals champ -6x All defense team -9x AST Champ -11x All NBA 1992-93 ASG MVP *Thomas -12x All Star -2x NBA Champ -1981 -82 all rookie -1989-99 finals MVP -1x AST Champ -5x All NBA -2x AS MVP Reading these stats Stockton is a more complete player. Stockton is the better shooter. Leadership is debatable. The only thing Thomas has over Stockton is 2 rings (which is huge, I guess we can thank the GOAT for that). But I rest my case, I’d still pick Stockton over Thomas. Hate to see what the advance stats comparison would be between these two.
Sir? Back in the day I'd argue with you to the end being the Bad Boys Pistons die-hard fan. But now in 2020?..... I have no problem with you choosing John Stockton. I prefer Isiah but Stock was & "still" is the all time assist leader. This man was supposed to be at least a 2 time champion.
Stockton has stats..Isiah has accolades...and stats do't tell the real story most stats are meaningless...Isiah has won championships at every level from HS, College and Pro..Stockton has never won big at any level..Stockton is a reliable steady great player..but his game is predictable and he never gets double teamed, because defenders know he's going to pass, siah gives defenders fits ask MJ (stats don't factor that in ) Also Stockton is rarely the guy to take the shot with 20 seconds on the clock ..90% Malone is the guy...and as great as Stockton was he did not have the xfactor that Isiah had ...the ability to single handedly takeover a game if necessary which Isiah has done on several occassions ..only a few players in NBA history have that ability Kobe, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dwade, Shaq, Lebron, etc etc and do it consisitently...the stats don't record that
I have to agree with Max on this one. For that particular team, Stockton, being the truer pass first point guard, was rightly taken over Zeke who would’ve caused rifts on that team. And Zeke, while he was the slightly better overall point guard, was slightly inferior on the only skill needed on this team which was passing. Stockton was a better fit in that team since he already had his connection to Malone.
If I had to choose between Michael or Isiah, it's Michael like everybody else outside of Detroit. If I had to choose between Magic or Isiah, it's Magic. Let's not forget, Magic retired from the NBA after he was selected for Dream Team.
True...it was about $$$$ and politics everybody knows Isiah was more deserving than Stockton, Mullins, Drexler and half the roster but ..NBA was reaching out to a global market..and MJ was there ticket..so if MJ doesn't want to play with Isiah..who's gonna sacrifice those $$$$
WHEN IT COMES TO THE "92' DREAM TEAM", JORDAN FINALLY HAD HIS OWN....."RULES". CHRISTIAN LAETTNER DESERVED TO BE ON THE TEAM, BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ON IT ANYWAY. REMEMBER, THOSE NBA PLAYERS WERE NEVER SELECTED TO BE ON AN OLYMPIC TEAM. CHRISTIAN REPRESENTED PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO DIDNT BELIEVE THE NBA SHOULD HAVE A PART IN THE OLYMPICS. HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISIAH. ISIAH DESERVED TO BE ON THE OLYMPIC TEAM; HOWEVER, BY 1992, ISIAH INSTANTLY BECAME AN *UNHEALTHY* NBA PLAYER. JOHN STOCKTON WAS 2ND IN LINE. THATS HOW HE GOT ON THE TEAM.
For a time, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson were confusing people because of the same initials M.J. We also had Michael Jackson. Technically, Magic's initials is E.J. Then we had Michael Johnson years later.
I have never heard anyone in that era confuse them. Magic was already established as Magic before Jordan entered the league. If you were talking BB MJ was always Jordan Michael Jackson was widely known as MJ too but the context always made it clear.
Jay Williams said "His Bisexuality" as if he doesn't believe Magic was all the way heterosexual or Magic revealed it. Am I missing something or was that a major slip up?
top 5 greatest point guards of all time: 1. magic 2. isiah thomas 3. curry 4. chris paul 5. john stockton i swear john stockton gets disrespected because he's white. he averaged 17 points and 14 assists in his prime while playing great defense and they wanna say he doesn't belong in the same class as isiah thomas. yes, isiah thomas is probably better than stockton but both are top 5 and stockton needs to stop being disrespected like that
Curry is not truly a point gaurd...he's a shooting gaurd playing the point..he's never averaged double digit assist in a season and has never lead the league in assist...actually Rondo is a better true point than Curry is but .if i was talking gaurds overall regardless of position..and they're overall value to team I'd have Curry in my dirty dozen 1.MJ 2. Kobe 3.Magic 4. Isiah 5.Dwade 6.Allen Iverson 7.Steph Curry 8. Steve Nash 9. Jason Kidd 10. John Stockton 11. CP3 12.Tiny Archibald/Pete Maravich/Bob Cousy take your pick Honorable mentions in no particular order Gary Peyton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kyre Irving, James Harden, Damian Lillard, Tony Parker, Clyde Drexler, Mark Price
Mj would talk trash to him the whole time about the walk off, he would of played with him no problem. I feel like pippen didnt want him on there more than mj out of the bulls
'Zeke led a movement to freeze out jordan from the all-star game. 'Zeke has professed that the pistons ran on a hierarchical system of leadership and it's obvious he was at the top as the general of the team - so while he wasn't known for being the roughest dude on the squad, you know he encouraged that style of play. 'Zeke likes to suggest that EVERYBODY played as dirty as the bad boys, but the knicks didn't try the same rough style till years after peak pistons, and even then they weren't as brawly as the pistons. 'Zeke and his pistons (again, he was the leader) didn't shake hands with the bulls after they lost, and who cares what the celtics did or didn't do, that doesnt excuse them from doing something that's considered unsportsmanlike, and the media and the world noticed IMMEDIATELY, and they never defended their actions (till recently). So yea...'Zeke was iced out of the dream team, and it was his own doing.
I find it insane that just because MJ was such an amazing player, the bad things he’s done still allow him to have a good amount of protection. Though if any other player did that they’d be ridiculed for life-
If Isiah's personality was closer to his teammate, Joe Dumars, he would've made the Dream Team. Isiah is better than Joe but Joe has always shown the most class from the Bad Boys. MJ and Joe are good friends.
james thomas mj is a little girl... who kept driving down on the pistons even tho they had a “Jordan rule” that was basically designed to injure Michael Jordan. And he got up and did it again. Ok. If anyone was trying to end my career like that I wouldn’t have wanted them anywhere near me. You’re probably 13 tho so no need to argue with you
And I know exactly whats gonna happen when Magic is gonna come on Monday, he is gonna show that smile and Stephen A and everybody will not even dare to say or ask any pressing questions. And plus they recently sat down and put aside their differences so I don't see Magic giving any direct answeo
Did Stephen and Jwill just say Stockton isn't even in the same category as Isiah?! The all time NBA leader in assists and steals as well as a million other awards and accomplishments,just wow. Let's be honest in basketball Stephen A. has and I guess always will be a straight out racist. He has been on that vibe for many years....
Isiah was the better scorer but the Dream Team was full of those.. It needed a facilitator more than a scorer. Facts! But I still would have put isiah over Stockton for that team because in the end he was the better OVERALL player THAT YEAR!
Stockton not on Thomas' level? This man literally holds 2 statistical records that are likely to never be broken for the rest of history. AND BY A HUGE MARGIN!!!! How dare SAS disrespect one of the greatest PGs to ever play. The original Point God along with Magic
Jay Williams laughing like he wasn’t a bust. Talking heads like SAS and Max can say stupid stuff -it’s their job to get people upset so they watch. But Jay Williams-Stockton “not in same category” as Isiah? Clown.
John Stockton was one of greatest point guards to ever play the game. Nobody's denying that fact. But to argue he's better than Isiah Thomas just because he had more assists & a few more steals only proves that most commenters in this section are thinking with their heart & not their head. Isiah could do everything Stockton wished he could do that's why he led his team to championships against the teams that consistently dominated Stockton's team - like the Lakers, Portland, Chicago, & Boston. Ask yourself, if all the players on the Dream Team hated Thomas so much why is it after all these years only 3 or 4 players ever came forth & admitted that. Are they afraid of Isiah? Of course not. Those other players remained silent because they were afraid of "The Mean Girls" on the team. Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, & Jordan's personal footstool, Scottie Pippen. They made so much noise that most people assumed they were speaking for the whole team.
Ok Stephen A. First Karl Malone tried to injure Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen feelings was hurt because he was labeled as a soft player by the BAD BOYS and Magic Johnson although a great player never had any kind of toughness he never went against anyone he just wanted to fit in simply put he was scared to speak up for his friend Isaiah Thomas.
Like Max, if I had to choose between them I would probably take Isiah, but to say that Stockton wasn't in the same class as Thomas is utterly bizarre. Look up any serious and in-depth analysis/comparison/ranking of those two point guards and you will always find Stockton ranked right there with Thomas, and often times ahead of Thomas.
That was the backlash of Isiah spreading rumors against Magic, not shaking the hands of the Chicago Bulls and the general dirty style of play of the Pistons in that era.
It's simple. Nobody in Dream Team wanted to play with Isiah. Simple as that. In real world, it doesn't matter if you are great, if nobody likes you then you can't work with them.
Actually their card should be upgraded to lifetime membership..because fact is Stockton is not on Isiahs level and anybody who has actually seen them play at their primes or even head to head would know that
My thing is this if you put John Stockton on the Bad Boys team and switched and put Isaiah on Utah's team with Malone please tell me that we are still talking about John Stockton in the same light??? I highly doubt it!! on the other hand we might even be talking about Isaiah in a whole nother light in a positive way with more stats possibly even being the all-time leader in assist? and who knows possibly even winning the championship when Jordan was vacant of the league once or twice if he had not retired.. which he might not have had to If he played with Utah because they didn't play the same style the bad boys did and that probably would have prolong his career just saying because Utah always had defensive prowess and some Big Boys on the team you had the karl Malone's and the Oster tags and the antwan Carters of the world but just looking at them both play with the eye test you got to go with Isaiah and it's not by a hair like Max was making it seem it's not by a extremely wide margin either its somewhere in the middle because john was so great but there IS something 2 be said about winning championships and not only did Isiah have 2 Backto back but he was the number 1 option on his team which no dis respect to john but he never was he was a 1b to the mailman...and I heard Max say he was not as gd of a defensive player as Stockton..come on now he is a bad boy Piston bro he was way tougher than stockton... like pat Beverley today to a certain degree but who would u rather puts on a tough defensive assignment him or Stockton?? Lol... yeah Stockton was on 5 all defensive team but not because he was lockdown but because he led the league in steals for many years.. but everybody knows it's more to defense than stealing just look at Kawhi Leonard is he just a player gd at steals.. a good example would be Gary Payton he was good at Stills but he also was lockdown he also had the instincts on defense and he also was a Rough Ryder? But i would definitely pick Isaiah hands down no question no debates about it..
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The level of disrespect towards John Stockton is mind blowing 🤯!!!
They are saying overall career wise tho lol. Stockton and isiah is pretty close
You didn't watch the pistons just like max
Jordan gets alot of blame because the first book written about the incident says that Jordan stated that if Isiah is on the team he wasn't playing. That doesn't mean others didn't have issues with him. Also if I was Max I would be like it's cool for y'all to disagree with my opinion but the disrespect needs to stop. Because Stephen A spent time as a journalist covering basketball doesn't make what he has to saw about the sport law.
diggy dub go look at the stat sheets in 92 idiot
Agree
Max is a 100 percent correct though. Stephen A has just lost me with his arguments with Max.
Movie matics he tryna make it racial Thts why
Max 100% incorrect.
Agreed.
Max is really on point. I would pick Stockton over Isiah considering there is Malone in the team. Malone is not Malone without Stockton. They are the best real duo ever (i don't consider Jordan and Pippen a duo, they are more like Master and Student on the first 3 peat and Superman and Batman on the 2nd 3 peat, thus they can stand on each own, more like a 1-2 punch). I would put college Shaquille O'neal though before Laettner and Isiah.
I don't think you saw Isaiah playing, it ain't even close Isaiah was better.
Can u remove Jay from the show please? Whinning and showing stupid facial expressions is not how you debate. It is so annoying to watch, it is almost unwatchable. Please teach him how to debate.
OH MY GOD PLEAAAAAAAASE REMOVE JAY WILLIAMS
Yeah i notice he's showing too much emotions im not even sure if its real or using it to his advantage.
Yeah JWil cannot debate to save his life
😩🤣😂😭🤣😁
Y’all want molly again?
Poor max. He's making a ton of sense. Its like watching him play Cinderella, and her 2 wicked stepsisters keep telling her "You're wrong! Here's why..."
LMAO!!! great analogy
Except Max is wrong . Ironically Jordan , Magic and Reggie Miller all have said Isaiah was way better .
Steven A and JWill's disrespect of Stockton is terrible
TheBLACKSTARmovement seriously! Stockton is very understated
Dude didnt get a ring n they act like dude couldn't play gtfoh top 50 player of all time
Stockton was a baller GTFO Steven A...
@theblackstarmovement hes white he will never get respect.
You misspelled correct with a "terrible" in it
Feels like ESPN went back in time to cash in on the media that was missed 30 years ago
Lmao too true
😂
you don't have things to talk about because corona so who cares
And lets wait for next week's episode 5 and 6 for more dramas 😁
It's the trending topic now. It's fortunate even because the younger generation who haven't experienced old-school bb would learn about the environment inside and outside the court.
Jay Williams fake laugh reminds me why everyone hates on Isiah for his fake smile
At this point I don't think it's fake... More like a laughing disorder 😭
he is the new will cain, both obnoxious AF.
I cant stand jay y hes on the show
John Donboli LMAO
@@Ghost-sz7uo nah will Cain has better takes
They tripping I’ll take Stockton all day
Ring less for a reason. Isiah beat Jordan, Stockton got bitched by Jordan
Len River on me this is crazy. They said not even in the same class?? Blasphemy
@@eldio2124 Stockton just didn't have a great team besides Malone. He's the all time leader in assists and steals for a reason.
@@eldio2124 you sound ridiculous
El Dio the Jordan teams Isiah and the bad boys faced didn’t even compare with the Jordan teams Stock and Malone went up against.
The disrespect to John Stockton is disgusting. “Not even the same category” is just simply blasphemous. He is a top 3 point guard of all time, smh.
Not at that time 90-91?
Jussst to be safe, let's say Top 5😀. But this disrespect IS ridiculous.
Everyone thinks he’s Malone’s sidekick. Dude could have 15/5/15 and 6 steals one night and it would’ve just been another Stockton game. Much better shooter, defender and passer than Thomas. Thomas is overrated because of those rings, you can’t tell me a 60+ win team with prime Karl Malone and Stockton wouldn’t have smoked those pistons. Bill Lambeers skinny as was not gonna stop that boy Karl
Top 3 🥴🥴🥴 yeah I don’t think so
@@vincentestone5764 Agree. Magic, Stockton, Kidd IMO. Then comes Thomas, Nash Curry, etc.
Holy cow. Stockton not in the same CLASS as Isiah??? Bro talk about BLASPHEMY
*Not even in the same category?! Are we gonna disrespect Stockton like that???*
It's because Stockton looks like an accountant.
Because he wasn't
2 time champ and finals MVP vs 0 rings. Nobody’s about to rank you high because you put up stats in the regular season. James Harden the GOAT if that’s what we doing 🤦🏾♂️
@@jamiethomas5849 poor guy went against Jordan in the finals
@@jamiethomas5849 yeah but James Harden stats aren't better than Mj,LBj,Wilt,Curr I can go on lmaoo
The person to blame the most for Isiah Thomas not being on Dream Team is Isiah Thomas.
^^^^ this right here facts
TREE HOUSE thats far from being the only thing he did
Pat4Clippers dduuhh patrick beverly could be on the dream team of he played in 80s, yall got lucky that pat is playing today.
Pissing off MJ, Bird, and Magic wasn't Isiah's smartest decision.
Pat4Clippers correct!!!
Stephen A and jay will need to be slapped stockton was a beast complete pg they really act like isiah didnt have help omg
Dywone Robinson thank you. so annoying
How can sit there and say that when Isiah was the only superstar player on the team. It was basically him and four guys that played defense extremely well..
assassin216 Isiah Thomas played with Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer etc...
John Stockton and Malone had Greg Ostertag, Olden Polynice, Bryon Russell.
Leaving Isiah outta dream team was simply personal!
Isaiah had underlying issues w everybody. Right or wrong, big names had issues. 3 guys above Isiah Jordan, Magic, Bird... All 3 had issues. Of course most other guys are not nor can they say anything about wanting Isiah on the team. The rest just wanted to be there. Scottie spoke out because Jordan elevated his status, Malone said something yrs later. But Robinson or Stockton, Mullins not gonna talk about Isiah
Isiah reminds of that ex girlfriend or black sheep of the family that everybody is pissed at but pretends to not know why.
Undeserved personal issues?
nah man he was hurt... remember? dont believe the hype.
It's just a sad pure fact. His own coach couldn't tell those guys he's not a bad guy...
It was a business decision, from a business perspective. If Magic, Bird,Jordan, Malone and Pippen didn't want to play with Isaiah(which is 60% of the Dream Team) there wouldn't have been no chemistry within the team. 😏 Which would have been poor representation for the U.S
yeah, you wrong stephen a and J will - they are def in the same class. yall sleeping on stock.
Tony D. Like that’s so much disrespect fr😂
He’s a HOF and he holds the assist record and the steals record so how can y’all say he doesn’t deserve to be on the dream team? He was valid lol he wasn’t better than Isaiah one on one but overrall he’d hold his own against Isaiah don’t do stock like that
They only respect Larry Bird and Jerry West. Everybody else in their opinion is too white to be good.
Tony D. No you’re wrong. Zeke was battling and outplaying a print Magic Johnson, who’s the bigger and better version of Stockton. Stockton was great but he isn’t close to Zeke
@@thrillwill5 Stockton led the league in assists 9 consecutive years at one point, 1992 being his 5th consecutive of those years. He also had significantly fewer turnovers per game, and more steals per game in their primes, or even career wise. Stockton led the league in steals twice, including 1992. Stockton scored less but shot a way higher %, and shot the 3 at a way higher % too. Even though Stockton played until he was 40, and Thomas only until he was 32, Stockton still shot 8% higher effective field goal % for his career, that's an enormous difference. In fact, he led the league in EFG % once and had 3 straight years of 60% EFG %. Thomas never even had one season of 50% shooting. Thomas led the league in assists once. That's 12 times that Stockton led the league in a major category (assists 9x, steals 2x, EFG % 1x), while Thomas led the league in a major stat 1 time. The only relevant category that Thomas beat Stockton in is points per game, and he did that averaging 7 more shots per game. In 1992 specifically, Thomas averaged 2.7 more points per game, but on a 7% lower effective field goal %, while Stockton was averaging 6.5 more assists per game (almost double the assits)! I'm not sure how anyone could look at two guys who played in the same era, with all the above being true, and dismiss Stockton as being comparable to Thomas.
Bro, John Stockton is one of the smartest players to ever live. This dude had 8 seasons in which he averaged over 12 assist | 1st All-Time in Assist | 1st All-Time in Steals | Career Assist to Turnover Ratio is 10 to 2. | Holds the Nba Record in Averaging 14.5 APG in a season. | Averaged over 14 APG twice in career. He was in the same class as Isiah Thomas. Stockton was a more intelligent, efficient, durable version of Chris Paul, who even made his teammates better. A top 5 Orchestrator of an Offense. Isaiah was a great athletic combo guard but head to head as a Pure Point, Stockton was better. John Stockton WAS THE SYSTEM! Karl Malone was easier to gameplan against & benefited from Stockton.
2 championships. Beat Jordan, Finals MVP. Thomas over Stockton all day. Every day.
Young Blood zeke 2 rings and finals mvp > Stockton
Yeah ok, even Stockton doesn't think he's better than Isiah Thomas.
@@peterwilliams3355 Its funny when it comes to that conversation, "rings" don't matter anymore 🤷♂️. Just proves, ppl only bring that up just to slight players they dont like.
@@fakephoenixprince Of course your supposed properly rank Isiah Thomas higher than Stockton because he won multiple championships. The criteria for ranking, since the beginning, has always been Statistics, Accolades, & Context. Every Top 50 player has that. Isiah has statistics topped off with 2 Rings. But if remove his championships, resume vs resume, Stockton in no way, shape or form pales in comparison to Isiah Thomas. He's actually better. Isiah Thomas is saved by his 2 rings, though he got them nonetheless. Better Career > Better Player.
John Stockton was a monster! He’s was nothing to laugh at. I completely agree with Max on that point
This like the 3rd straight day they talked about this topic.
lol bc there's no games being played. welcome to recycled news
There's nothing else to talk about lol if they talk about current NBA ppl are also gonna complain how they recycle the same LeBron / Kawhi / Giannis arguments
its also any opportunity to rewrite history...say it a few times and it becomes fact.
ratings
@@vinothv tks to this, all jordan team mates are getting credit... jordan was a amazing, but that bulls team was amazing
The disrespect for John Stockton ... and they’re suppose to be basketball experts.
Stockton/Malone and pippin/Jordan..how many times have we heard "it's not always the best players but the best fit." Is Isaiah one of the best of all time ..yes, but at that time caused to much friction whereas these other guys already had great chemistry. In my humble opinion...
This jay lad, i just find him so irritating. Who else feel the same.?
All he does is making weird faces when he doesn't agree with others
He holds a lot of players jocks that play in the NBA today. Particularly KD and LeBron. He comes off as nothing but a bias apologist for those guys
Same. And he really thinks hes a good analyst too.
oh 💯 %.. Jay is such a whining old lady 👵.. his normal facial expressions looks like he’s gonna cry any second..
Y'all talk about the same topic everyday. Isiah got left off the dream team. Boo hoo, get over it.
Xplicit1k 30 years ago lol
Thumbs down for em. They'll switch it up.
Xplicit1k They have literally nothing else to talk about it because there is no sports lol.
They got nothing else to talk about what are you expecting and it’s ESPN
U wanna hear about Lebron beating the 73 win warriors again
MJ had the greatest career, greatest story, and greatest rivalry in basketball history.
Bottom line... a lot of players didn't like Isiah... and they KNEW they could dominate without him... So why have him?
Exactly
It would be like picking the next Olympic team without Curry or Kyrie
@ Not like Curry at all. More like not picking Kyrie right after he bounced on lebron. curry is class and respectful
Stockton made Malone more so than any other player helping another player. Stockton over IT imo he’s better defensively better passer and better shooter. All isiah had was a better handle and a lil better drive. Ppl don’t realize Stockton was restricted by the jerry Sloan system he coulda been a perennial 18-23 ppg scorer along with his usual 2 steals 10 apg. He’s so underrated I’m taking him over IT when I’m making a team. Max is right
Edit: jay and sa didn’t really say much to support Isaiah besides he was a “better leader” and won. Stockton is a perfect leader and his jazz teams were never as versatile and deep as bad boys and obv didn’t beat ppl up to win(ik it was their style and their 2 chips still count,but let’s be honest about their style)
Stockton is highly underrated, very efficient.
Better shooter than magic.
Ashwin Cheekala I agree to an extent but Isiah was averaging 20+p and I0+a and decided to lower it for the better of his team. This guy best Kareem, bird, magic and Jordan in the playoffs. 12th greatest of all time.
al farouq aminu for 3 way better shooter. Stockton is Nash with all nba defense and lebron durability(if nash had 95 shooting Stockton is like 85 shooting)
If Sloan thought Stockton could've carried them in the Finals I'm sure he would've called his number. How many times did Stockton beat an in prime Magic?
Megalodon Unlocked as respect to one of the greatest ever(he’s 4th imo) and magic himself said he wants bird to play basically forcing him.
They needed a pass-first point guard that had chemistry with the other guys. It's not an Allstar team! It's about the right pieces not the best players. IT didn't have chemistry as much with those other guys. Stockton was the better player for the role.
Jalen Davis Lool stop it. It was about selecting the best players, not who fit right.
Bro that definitely was an All-Star team😂
I'd rather have Isiah over Stockton any day of the week. Dude was the 2nd best PG of all time. Stockton was legit, but the one guy who probably didn't belong was Mullin. Mullin was a decent shot, but never really accomplished much and is a largely forgotten Hall guy.
Isiah has played in 13 AllStar games..with super star scorers..so the notion that he does't know when to be a pass first gaurd is inexcusable...Isiah..was the prototype to todays 2 way small gaurds yousee today..but he knew how to make other better, and learned later in his career how to reliquish some of the scoring to nhis teammates..isiah could easily put up 25- 30 points every game..but he doesn't becasue he knows when to play the point and when to play the 2
The only obstacle to success for the 1992 Dream Team was team chemistry and ego. If Isiah is a potential source for the team not getting along then he has to stay off the team.
Isiah had played in at least a dozen or more allstar games at this point with most of these guys before in All star games so it wasn't a matter of chemistry or ego..it was a matter of money and politics
@@vivianbutler5851nah you outta pocket here all star game is just an all star game. It isn’t as soft as it is now but it’s still just an all star game and you can’t even compare all star game vs the olympics
I think I'm with Max on this
Disrespectful to John Stockton.
Leaving Isiah outta dream team was simply personal!
When you treat people like garbage because you are garbage then people will toss you in the dumpster
Makes me think, would MJ play with the dreamteam if Isiah was picked too.
You are completely right
When you are talking about point guards only Magic will go before Isiah!
They were butthurt
BSPN with the same recycled BS everyday
Mark Swift playlist 1 Chicago bulls 2 Dallas cowboys 3 lebron James 4 Tom Brady on repeat mode
True. I mean they can talk about cricket or javelin throw. There are other sports that can possibly make more money than Last Dance.
Didn’t magic admit to keeping Isaiah off the team
Who really cares if IT wasn't on the squad?..once the Olympics started I really didn't notice his absence..🤷
Thats not the main point. Point is, Isiah Thomas is way too good to be left out. He definitely deserves a spot and they know they did him dirty.
You can say the SAME for John Stockton. I DIDN'T notice Him & He was ON The Squad. Put some RESPECT on ZEKE'S Name. He should have been ON The Team.
Vincent E Stone Facts! I really believe the theory that Magic had something to do with it.
@Marvin Banks Most of the players really didn't want him there and unless they were going to pick a whole other team without Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Bird and Magic Isiah wasn't playing. I wasn't mad at all that he was left off of the team.
Isaiah Thomas should be thanking MJ for getting him this much spotlight.
Kevin Thompson this isn’t a good spot light he’s ode ode good at basketball he didn’t need recognition to confirm what the world already knows , the real problem is everyone loves Jordan basketball was in desperate need of someone like him so if Jordan says I don’t think he’s good for basketball I don’t want him in the dream team everyone is going to take Jordan’s side becuz he is basketball!
MJ>Everybody else
Stockton has almost double the assists and double the steals and more career points the only thing missing from his career is a chip. To say Stockton is not in the same class is blasphemous not the other way around.
It wasn't just MJ, magic bird malone pippen etc... other guys DID NOT WANT HIM ON THE TEAM, no one mentions that
Stockton not in the same class as Thomas, you should have your basketball card pulled!!!!
Everybody hated IT so that's it
Something tells me Bird and Magic never considered trying to convince MJ that Isiah joining the Dream Team was a good idea.
Stockton and Isiah aren’t even in the same category? That’s BLASPHEMY
There actually not...based on the way they play and they're team responsibilities Stockton is the 2nd best pure point gaurd ever..magic is No.1 Isiah is 3rd but all around gaurd..its not even close Stockton is not in Isiahs league
Vivian Butler facts
They need to stop acting like Stockton ain't an all time great PG😅. I mean, I get all the Isiah love, but damm, at least be objectively honest guys.
Isiah BOX PLUS/MINUS: +2.2
Stockton BOX PLUS/MINUS: +3.5
Nobody has ever said Stockton wasn't an all time great...I think everybody acknowledges Stocktons greatness ...he's just no comparison to Isiah...and those stats are meaningless ..problem with stats is that they don't tell the real story of what goes on on the floor.While Isiah and Stockton may have the ball in there hands for equal periods of time Isiah is required to do more with it..at times Isiah has to be the team scorer Stockton never does..Isiah also penetrates far more often than Stockton, which means you'll get fouled more often and lose the ball more often when you get hit...whether the call is made or not. Isiah is expected to take more chances in big game situations than Stockton is ...with 20 second on the clock in a close game Utah is going to Malone not Stockton, Detroit is going to Isiah (he might score, he might get fouled, he might get stripped or blocked)
Stats like plus/minus and win shares are meaningless...Detlef Schrempf, Dana Barros, Reggie Miller, and Stockton were all ahead of Hakeem in win shares in 1995. The year he won his second ring and was at worst...the second best player in the NBA(in reality...the best). Hakeem wasnt even top 10 in win shares
-Brent Barry ended up having more win shares than Kidd in 2002. And that was in 02 when midseason Kidd likely would have been voted MVP.
-Oh and also that year in 2002...Elton Brand had higher win shares oover Dirk, Shaq(3rd ring year) and KG
@@vivianbutler5851 youre part of the problem if stockton dont compare to isaah
Not on the same class? Wow, Stockton is the all time leader in assists and Steals. Went to the Finals twice and played against a lot of great teams in the West back in the 90’s. Stockton is right up there among the great point guards of all time including Zeke.
Bruhhhh John Stockton can’t catch a break wow
What!!! He made Dream Team over a better player and top 50 and first ballot Hall of Fame. Overrated great white hope
@@mikekillagreen9432 Stockton led the league in assists 9 consecutive years at one point, 1992 being his 5th consecutive of those years. He also had significantly fewer turnovers per game, and more steals per game in their primes, or even career wise. Stockton led the league in steals twice, including 1992. Stockton scored less but shot a way higher %, and shot the 3 at a way higher % too. Even though Stockton played until he was 40, and Thomas only until he was 32, Stockton still shot 8% higher effective field goal % for his career, that's an enormous difference. In fact, he led the league in EFG % once and had 3 straight years of 60% EFG %. Thomas never even had one season of 50% shooting. Thomas led the league in assists once. That's 12 times that Stockton led the league in a major category (assists 9x, steals 2x, EFG % 1x), while Thomas led the league in a major stat 1 time. The only relevant category that Thomas beat Stockton in is points per game, and he did that averaging 7 more shots per game. In 1992 specifically, Thomas averaged 2.7 more points per game, but on a 7% lower effective field goal %, while Stockton was averaging 6.5 more assists per game (almost double the assits)! I'm not sure how anyone could look at two guys who played in the same era, with all the above being true, and dismiss Stockton as being comparable to Thomas.
Its not Stocktons fault either Stockton rightfully deserves his place among the greats and they should just let it go at that...he's no comparison to Isiah..they're games are not the same , there teams had different needs, thier skillsets are different..and Zeke has a better skill set by far. Stop comparing the 2 there's no comparison..its like comparing Kyre Irving to Chris Paul (except Isiah was truer to the point position than Kyre but could handle and score like Kyre..and CP3 has a handle Stockton could only dream of) They we're both truly great point gaurds who provided what they're team needed..but Stockton was not a franchise player Isiah..Utah was built around Malone not Stockton to take them to the promise land, Detroit was built around Isiah to take them to the promise land and he did...twice
I dunno man...John Stockton is a legend in my eyes, just as much as Isiah is 🤷🏾♂️
You don't know basketball
thats the point u dont get it...stockton an all time great....
How about Dominique Wilkins over Clyde Drexler
Man I thought that back then but I think he had surgery but bird wasn't 💯 percent as well
I’d take Stockton over Thomas any day of the week.
If you'd do that, then you don't know anything about basketball, or anything about the way Isaiah Thomas played the game...smh
Albert Elazar sorry for having a different opinion, since you are so educated about the game of basketball please explain to the congregation on why my choice is wrong?
Isaiah was better than Stockton in almost every basketball category you can think of! He was a much better scorer, shooter, and leader, he was also a great passer, and a 2 time champion on top of that The only thing that Stockton has over Isaiah, is he had a lot more career assists, and steals over him, that's it. Stockton was a great player don't get me wrong, BUT HE'S NO ISAIH, NOT EVEN CLOSE!
Albert Elazar
Games played
*Stockton = 1504
*Thomas = 979
PTS
*Stockton = 13.1
*Thomas = 19.2
FGM/FGA/%
*Stockton = 4.7/9.1/.510
*Thomas = 7.3/16.2/.452
3PM/3PA/%
*Stockton = 0.6/1.5/.384
*Thomas = 0.4/1.4/.290
2PM/2PA/%
*Stockton = 4.1/7.6/.541
*Thomas = 6.9/14.8/.468
eFG%
*Stockton = .546
*Thomas = .465
FTM/FTA/FT%
*Stockton = 3.2/3.9/.826
*Thomas = 4.1/5.4/.759
ORB/DRB/TRB
*Stockton = 0.6/2.1/2.7
*Thomas = 1.0/2.6/3.6
AST/TOV
*Stockton = 10.5/2.8
*Thomas = 9.3/3.8
STL/BLK
*Stockton = 2.2/0.2
*Thomas = 1.9/0.3
Achievements
*Stockton
-10x All Star
-2x steals champ
-6x All defense team
-9x AST Champ
-11x All NBA
1992-93 ASG MVP
*Thomas
-12x All Star
-2x NBA Champ
-1981 -82 all rookie
-1989-99 finals MVP
-1x AST Champ
-5x All NBA
-2x AS MVP
Reading these stats Stockton is a more complete player. Stockton is the better shooter. Leadership is debatable.
The only thing Thomas has over Stockton is 2 rings (which is huge, I guess we can thank the GOAT for that).
But I rest my case, I’d still pick Stockton over Thomas.
Hate to see what the advance stats comparison would be between these two.
Stephen a Smith is right, that John Stockton wasn't in the same class....
*Because he's White*
J Will really erks me no lie...smh
he went back and 'RE-READ the book'....J Will...shut up.
Max finally got it right for a legit argument of Stockton being a "true" PG. Christian Laettner was a "token" for sure.
I choose stockton with his accolades over isiah.
Are you dumb
Your funny
Sir? Back in the day I'd argue with you to the end being the Bad Boys Pistons die-hard fan. But now in 2020?..... I have no problem with you choosing John Stockton. I prefer Isiah but Stock was & "still" is the all time assist leader. This man was supposed to be at least a 2 time champion.
Stockton has stats..Isiah has accolades...and stats do't tell the real story most stats are meaningless...Isiah has won championships at every level from HS, College and Pro..Stockton has never won big at any level..Stockton is a reliable steady great player..but his game is predictable and he never gets double teamed, because defenders know he's going to pass, siah gives defenders fits ask MJ (stats don't factor that in ) Also Stockton is rarely the guy to take the shot with 20 seconds on the clock ..90% Malone is the guy...and as great as Stockton was he did not have the xfactor that Isiah had ...the ability to single handedly takeover a game if necessary which Isiah has done on several occassions ..only a few players in NBA history have that ability Kobe, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dwade, Shaq, Lebron, etc etc and do it consisitently...the stats don't record that
Stockton might be the most slept on NBA player ever. He's up there at the very least dude leads all time assists by like 2k and all time steals by 1k
While Mj was the MAIN reason for it magic, pip, Malone and others all had a part of him being left out as well
Yeah
Magic and malone hasn't responded
His comments in agreement with what Rodman said about Bird also had something to do with it. Bottom line is THEY didn't want him on the team.
Any evidence that Jordan had something to do with it? Besides the media who repeated that lie for 30 years...?
I have to agree with Max on this one. For that particular team, Stockton, being the truer pass first point guard, was rightly taken over Zeke who would’ve caused rifts on that team. And Zeke, while he was the slightly better overall point guard, was slightly inferior on the only skill needed on this team which was passing. Stockton was a better fit in that team since he already had his connection to Malone.
Max won this. Stephen is just siding with Isiah bcus he's black
If I had to choose between Michael or Isiah, it's Michael like everybody else outside of Detroit. If I had to choose between Magic or Isiah, it's Magic. Let's not forget, Magic retired from the NBA after he was selected for Dream Team.
True...it was about $$$$ and politics everybody knows Isiah was more deserving than Stockton, Mullins, Drexler and half the roster but ..NBA was reaching out to a global market..and MJ was there ticket..so if MJ doesn't want to play with Isiah..who's gonna sacrifice those $$$$
Jay Will has no personality. He just kisses up to Stephen A all the time 😂
Happy birthday Isiah Thomas. 59 years old and still hasn't aged too much since his playing days.
Idk. It was pretty widely understood that it was Jordan who said they would have to choose between Isaiah and him.
John Stockton was a beast
What are they laughing at? Are they seriously dissing Stockton that much. Wow!
I'm taking Stockton all day over Isiah Thomas.
Because you don't like Isiah and don't know basketball
Mike Killagreen 100% and he must love losing too!
@@TommyGibbs1 Amen
WHEN IT COMES TO THE "92' DREAM TEAM", JORDAN FINALLY HAD HIS OWN....."RULES". CHRISTIAN LAETTNER DESERVED TO BE ON THE TEAM, BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ON IT ANYWAY. REMEMBER, THOSE NBA PLAYERS WERE NEVER SELECTED TO BE ON AN OLYMPIC TEAM. CHRISTIAN REPRESENTED PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO DIDNT BELIEVE THE NBA SHOULD HAVE A PART IN THE OLYMPICS. HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISIAH. ISIAH DESERVED TO BE ON THE OLYMPIC TEAM; HOWEVER, BY 1992, ISIAH INSTANTLY BECAME AN *UNHEALTHY* NBA PLAYER. JOHN STOCKTON WAS 2ND IN LINE. THATS HOW HE GOT ON THE TEAM.
Makes me think, would MJ play with the dreamteam if Isiah was picked too.
hpc Ghost they played in the allstar game every year jordan played in the 80s so he could of made it work
Jimmy Crackcorn it’s documented that he never said that
For a time, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson were confusing people because of the same initials M.J. We also had Michael Jackson. Technically, Magic's initials is E.J. Then we had Michael Johnson years later.
I have never heard anyone in that era confuse them. Magic was already established as Magic before Jordan entered the league.
If you were talking BB MJ was always Jordan
Michael Jackson was widely known as MJ too but the context always made it clear.
stephen a protects michael jordan like his life depends on it
MJ doesn't need protection. The only player who is protected by the media for his BS is LBJ.
Tangara Speedgoda bro nobody did talk about lebron absolutely NOBODY 🤦🏾♂️. And yes Stephen A protect jordan that’s very clear dude
yvana, Ha lol spoken like a true blind witness young dummy. Now go back to paying homage to your faux king the phony goat.
Tangara Speedgoda why invole lebron?
Jay Williams said "His Bisexuality" as if he doesn't believe Magic was all the way heterosexual or Magic revealed it. Am I missing something or was that a major slip up?
Isiah Thomas was a bad sport, really the whole bad boys pistons team showed poor sportsmanship
Dont matter, he still deserves a spot
Who cares. Man we need live sports back...
Stockton CRUSHES Thomas in PER!!!
Put that crack pipe down son.
top 5 greatest point guards of all time:
1. magic
2. isiah thomas
3. curry
4. chris paul
5. john stockton
i swear john stockton gets disrespected because he's white. he averaged 17 points and 14 assists in his prime while playing great defense and they wanna say he doesn't belong in the same class as isiah thomas. yes, isiah thomas is probably better than stockton but both are top 5 and stockton needs to stop being disrespected like that
Curry is not truly a point gaurd...he's a shooting gaurd playing the point..he's never averaged double digit assist in a season and has never lead the league in assist...actually Rondo is a better true point than Curry is but .if i was talking gaurds overall regardless of position..and they're overall value to team I'd have Curry in my dirty dozen 1.MJ 2. Kobe 3.Magic 4. Isiah 5.Dwade 6.Allen Iverson 7.Steph Curry 8. Steve Nash 9. Jason Kidd 10. John Stockton 11. CP3 12.Tiny Archibald/Pete Maravich/Bob Cousy take your pick
Honorable mentions in no particular order Gary Peyton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kyre Irving, James Harden, Damian Lillard, Tony Parker, Clyde Drexler, Mark Price
Reminds me when Max said he’d take Blake Griffin over Melo 😂😂😂😂
Thats not that crazy of a pick
zach rizzo Clippers Blake me to🤦🏿♂️🤣
@@rrichmond14 really its not...I'd take Blake over Melo
Mj would talk trash to him the whole time about the walk off, he would of played with him no problem. I feel like pippen didnt want him on there more than mj out of the bulls
Flight was snubbed off the dream team and nobody talking about that😡
Whatever…..it was Jordan….everyone on that team disliked Thomas….it was Jordan….this is boring.
'Zeke led a movement to freeze out jordan from the all-star game. 'Zeke has professed that the pistons ran on a hierarchical system of leadership and it's obvious he was at the top as the general of the team - so while he wasn't known for being the roughest dude on the squad, you know he encouraged that style of play. 'Zeke likes to suggest that EVERYBODY played as dirty as the bad boys, but the knicks didn't try the same rough style till years after peak pistons, and even then they weren't as brawly as the pistons. 'Zeke and his pistons (again, he was the leader) didn't shake hands with the bulls after they lost, and who cares what the celtics did or didn't do, that doesnt excuse them from doing something that's considered unsportsmanlike, and the media and the world noticed IMMEDIATELY, and they never defended their actions (till recently).
So yea...'Zeke was iced out of the dream team, and it was his own doing.
In Jack McCallum's Dream Team, Jordan went on record to say that he did not want to play on the Dream Team if Isiah Thomas is on the squad.
I find it insane that just because MJ was such an amazing player, the bad things he’s done still allow him to have a good amount of protection. Though if any other player did that they’d be ridiculed for life-
If Isiah's personality was closer to his teammate, Joe Dumars, he would've made the Dream Team. Isiah is better than Joe but Joe has always shown the most class from the Bad Boys. MJ and Joe are good friends.
“I don’t want him on the team because he didn’t shake my hand” -mj
JTrillZ BooFed he never ever said this.
james thomas mj is a little girl... who kept driving down on the pistons even tho they had a “Jordan rule” that was basically designed to injure Michael Jordan. And he got up and did it again. Ok. If anyone was trying to end my career like that I wouldn’t have wanted them anywhere near me. You’re probably 13 tho so no need to argue with you
JTrillZ BooFed also it was magic who didn’t want him in the team. But what do you know? Nothing
And I know exactly whats gonna happen when Magic is gonna come on Monday, he is gonna show that smile and Stephen A and everybody will not even dare to say or ask any pressing questions. And plus they recently sat down and put aside their differences so I don't see Magic giving any direct answeo
Zeke Ova Stock. Molone , Hornacek, Russell, Ostertag, Eisley always came up short against MJ. Right!!! Prior 2 The 🐐 coming up short against ZEKE
This is so disrespectful to Stockton
Petty McGetty
Did Stephen and Jwill just say Stockton isn't even in the same category as Isiah?! The all time NBA leader in assists and steals as well as a million other awards and accomplishments,just wow. Let's be honest in basketball Stephen A. has and I guess always will be a straight out racist. He has been on that vibe for many years....
facts
Isiah was the better scorer but the Dream Team was full of those.. It needed a facilitator more than a scorer. Facts! But I still would have put isiah over Stockton for that team because in the end he was the better OVERALL player THAT YEAR!
How is Jordan getting to much blame WHEN HE SAID IF HE PLAY ON THE TEAM I'M NOT! Stockton wasn't better than Zeke not even close.
I disagree that John is not close too Thomas and I'm black. Y'all tripping! And disrespectful!
Stockton not on Thomas' level? This man literally holds 2 statistical records that are likely to never be broken for the rest of history. AND BY A HUGE MARGIN!!!! How dare SAS disrespect one of the greatest PGs to ever play. The original Point God along with Magic
Bro Stockton faced the 97-98 bulls it was way different to the 90 bulls
Jay Williams laughing like he wasn’t a bust. Talking heads like SAS and Max can say stupid stuff -it’s their job to get people upset so they watch. But Jay Williams-Stockton “not in same category” as Isiah? Clown.
John Stockton was one of greatest point guards to ever play the game. Nobody's denying that fact. But to argue he's better than Isiah Thomas just because he had more assists & a few more steals only proves that most commenters in this section are thinking with their heart & not their head. Isiah could do everything Stockton wished he could do that's why he led his team to championships against the teams that consistently dominated Stockton's team - like the Lakers, Portland, Chicago, & Boston.
Ask yourself, if all the players on the Dream Team hated Thomas so much why is it after all these years only 3 or 4 players ever came forth & admitted that. Are they afraid of Isiah? Of course not.
Those other players remained silent because they were afraid of "The Mean Girls" on the team. Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, & Jordan's personal footstool, Scottie Pippen. They made so much noise that most people assumed they were speaking for the whole team.
Ok Stephen A. First Karl Malone tried to injure Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen feelings was hurt because he was labeled as a soft player by the BAD BOYS and Magic Johnson although a great player never had any kind of toughness he never went against anyone he just wanted to fit in simply put he was scared to speak up for his friend Isaiah Thomas.
Like Max, if I had to choose between them I would probably take Isiah, but to say that Stockton wasn't in the same class as Thomas is utterly bizarre. Look up any serious and in-depth analysis/comparison/ranking of those two point guards and you will always find Stockton ranked right there with Thomas, and often times ahead of Thomas.
Stockton is nowhere close to Isiah..... everybody knows this.
That was the backlash of Isiah spreading rumors against Magic, not shaking the hands of the Chicago Bulls and the general dirty style of play of the Pistons in that era.
It's simple. Nobody in Dream Team wanted to play with Isiah. Simple as that.
In real world, it doesn't matter if you are great, if nobody likes you then you can't work with them.
You know there is nothing else going on in the world of sports when your rehashing the roster selection of a team from 28 year ago.
Stockton and Isiah Thomas not in the same class? SAS and J Will lost their basketball card on this argument.
Actually their card should be upgraded to lifetime membership..because fact is Stockton is not on Isiahs level and anybody who has actually seen them play at their primes or even head to head would know that
My thing is this if you put John Stockton on the Bad Boys team and switched and put Isaiah on Utah's team with Malone please tell me that we are still talking about John Stockton in the same light??? I highly doubt it!! on the other hand we might even be talking about Isaiah in a whole nother light in a positive way with more stats possibly even being the all-time leader in assist? and who knows possibly even winning the championship when Jordan was vacant of the league once or twice if he had not retired.. which he might not have had to If he played with Utah because they didn't play the same style the bad boys did and that probably would have prolong his career just saying because Utah always had defensive prowess and some Big Boys on the team you had the karl Malone's and the Oster tags and the antwan Carters of the world but just looking at them both play with the eye test you got to go with Isaiah and it's not by a hair like Max was making it seem it's not by a extremely wide margin either its somewhere in the middle because john was so great but there IS something 2 be said about winning championships and not only did Isiah have 2 Backto back but he was the number 1 option on his team which no dis respect to john but he never was he was a 1b to the mailman...and I heard Max say he was not as gd of a defensive player as Stockton..come on now he is a bad boy Piston bro he was way tougher than stockton... like pat Beverley today to a certain degree but who would u rather puts on a tough defensive assignment him or Stockton?? Lol... yeah Stockton was on 5 all defensive team but not because he was lockdown but because he led the league in steals for many years.. but everybody knows it's more to defense than stealing just look at Kawhi Leonard is he just a player gd at steals.. a good example would be Gary Payton he was good at Stills but he also was lockdown he also had the instincts on defense and he also was a Rough Ryder? But i would definitely pick Isaiah hands down no question no debates about it..
Are you kidding? Stockton and I don't have to think twice. These guys are mad because he's white.