In my opinion at least? Catherine's tragedy is that other people have and continue to force their own versions and expectations onto her and get upset when she either does or doesn't live up to them. Her love for Heathcliff is because he's her home. He's the one person to see her for the person she really is. Yeah, she's selfish and willful, but honestly? I would be too, if everyone constantly either expected the worst of me, or only loved their perceptions of me instead of who I really was.
I agree with you in part, although there is evidence to suggest, in the early portion of the story, that Catherine was always to some extent like the way she was. And I do think that it is her being tempted by the comforts and attention that she gets at Thrushcross when she is a girl (something she didn't really get from her parents, who preferred either Hindley or Heathcliff), rather than being forced to conform to other's expectations. I think the forcing comes later, once she has married Edgar and adopted that world.
When Catherine tells Nelly why she wants to marry Linton she mentions that this marriage would help to provide for both her and Heathcliff. She says crazy things but she sounds very innocent. She truly believes that Linton won't keep her away from Heathcliff and they all could be happy together. I think it shows that Cathy's feelings for Heathcliff are pure and strong, even though she tries to lie even to herself. She understands that there's something wrong, that is why she asks Nelly for her advice. But she clearly wants better future for herself AND for Heathcliff. She's afraid of poverty, she is as vulnerable as Heathcliff (that's what Nelly ignores) and she wants to find some help somewhere else, because she knows that they both need it. She's selfish because she doesn't think about both men's feelings, but it's not her fault. It's so amazing how Bronte shows how the environment can affect people 🤯
100% agree In that sense I pity Cathy. Although I think she was a bit of a lunatic to believe that Linton would allow her to have her little Heathcliff on the side. Basically she wanted to have the cake and eat it too. But I do understand where she was coming from. She was not wrong in saying she and Heathcliff would be beggars if they married each other. I sincerely don't know what I would have done in her shoes...
Yes! The difficulty women then had cannot be overlooked. They had to get married up to survive. And Catherine married Edgar ultimately for Heathcliff, which seems wrong when one thinks she should have married her true love… but what is true love when people get divorced and remarry all the time? That’s exactly what Catherine was saying when she talked about what her love towards Edgar was like; it changes over time. Her love towards Heathcliff was like ‘eternal rocks’. She did her best for her true love by not marrying him. And that in my opinion, is true love.
I agree that there was an innocence about Cathy, and she was only 15 or 16. She clearly didn't understand the expectations of marriage or romantic love at all, and Nelly calls this out explicitly.
I disliked nelly way more than Catherine. Catherine is a complex and unlikable character. She's abusive, selfish and petty. However, Nelly isn't less selfish or abusive towards Catherine, she's just in a lower position to be as abusive as Catherine. I can understand the reason behind Catherine's cruelty, I cannot understand the reason behind Nellys cruelty towards Catherine.
You're missing something huge here: Heathcliff inherited nothing. He has no education, no profession and no money. Hindley has done all he can to degrade him. Catherine says that if she marries him she will be living in haystacks. Heathcliff runs off when he hears this, coming back years later with more wealth than Hindley. But by then it's too late. With no word from Heathcliff and no other options, Catherine has married Edgar.
Catherine has been definitely one of the most misunderstood characters ever, especially because of Nelly and her interpretations of her. In her deathbed Catherine has an epiphany and gets to see Nelly for who she is, whereas throughout her whole life she viewed Nelly as an older sister figure and trusted her, while Nelly hated her in return. Nelly also misunderstood Cathy’s illness by thinking “she made herself ill to spite everyone”. When heathcliff left the first time doctor said that Catherine has a very weak health already and she shouldn’t be vexed and we get to see that in fact she does have a very weak health and a minor inconvenience along with her being pregnant sent her into her grave.
An interesting interpretation. I agree with you for the most part; Nelly does constantly give the worst interpretation of Catherine's motivations. That said, I think she (Catherine), does sometimes exploit her illness to get what she wants, and certainly uses her temper to do it. She's not a perfect character, but that's why she's so interesting. And she's definitely not the monster that Nelly makes her out to be.
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall wuthering heights has so many ambiguities this is why it’s a classic. Emily was a very ambiguous and mysterious person herself it’s only fitting that she wrote a book mostly based on personal opinions and interpretations. Is the ghost real or not? Was perhaps heathcliff more than a simple orphan that mr earnshaw adopted ? Perhaps an illegitimate son? How did he become rich? Was Cathy simply a woman gone undiagnosed suffering from a mental disorder? Could she make herself ill on purpose or was she rather honestly ill and Nelly interpreted all this based on her own assumptions of her? Was Catherine’s and Heathcliffs love honest or was it circumstantial love because they were together all the time? We will never know and that’s the magic of it all . Thank you for bringing this lovely book to notice. Many people dislike it thinking they where supposed to read a Jane Austen romance when in fact wuthering heights is so much more than this.
I think Catherine wanted respect for herself and for Heathcliffe, and also for her decision to be responsible for themselves as a couple. It's like The Man Who Fell to Earth! Perhaps she thought if they stayed together they would perish (folle a deux) so insecurities pushed her like the moorland wind to her unwitting fate.
I've always trusted Catherine's entry more than what Nellie said about her. Wuthering Heights is certainly the kind of book where one has to take into account who's telling the story and why they'd view its protagonists the way they do...
man, I can listen to you all day talking about Wuthering Heights, it is a very difficult story to deal with, in my opinion it is simply an immense tragedy, I think that Cathy made the decision in a way too cerebral, taking into account material and social issues, decision That ended up killing her, she was a wild force of nature that, as in her dreams, was clear, she preferred the mud with heatcliff instead of the sky with the angels, greetings from Colombia.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy the series! Yeah I think you are right there about Cathy. She should have followed her heart, especially because as Heathcliff showed by leaving, he could have made something of himself without pandering to the gentry!
I love that you point out that can't was a victim child abuse. She and Heathcliff bonded over survival which explains their desperate connection. It angers me how everyone overlooks this. And her diary really makes this clear. Thank you!
When Cathy stays with the Lintons, she comes to see what a home can be, what a childhood could be. She gets to see that she has a possible escape from the oppressive abuse of her family. The tragedy is that she must abandon Heathcliff, totally. And this betrayal truly leaves him bereft in ways that she was never at risk of being. So sad.
This was a really great video thank you so much! I haven't quite finished watching, so don't know if you mention it, but I think the part about Catherine and Heathcliff actually being part of each other is a really significant idea. I think in chapter 12 in Catherines deterioration, there are so many moments which suggest this. I think a really interesting moment is when she looks in the mirror and actually doesn't recognise herself. her health has deteriorated due to heath cliffs absence, and due to this 'part' of her being missing (the primitive side) she literally cannot identify herself. Its also interesting to note this because she is within the confinement of thrush cross grange and so will look the 'part' of the repressed woman in society. without the wildness of Heathcliff, all that remains is the side of her shaped by civilisation. She then opens the window and imagines seeing wuthering heights which emphasises how this lack of the part of her that is Heathcliff, is something that she ultimately desires. Just thought it was a cool extra bit of info for anyone interested :)
It's been a while, so I don't know if I mention it in this or another episode, but either way, you are right about the connection between the two of them. Thanks for your thoughts!
While reading the book, I felt many a times that Heathcliff and catherine are locked in their love for each other, they don't want to be with each other but its aching to be without the other... its as a devil has been attached with them who is not wanting to release them. while, with Mr. Edgar Catherine is content and reaxed... tthough she remembers heathcliff often but she is by herself and her life is not as miserable as with heathcliff...
Catherine describing her feelings for Heathcliff kind of resonates with Emily's poem, "Love and Friendship". Also I'm thinking that Catherine and Heathcliff saying that they are one and the same several times is clearly there to indicate something. I remember there was an essay on the parallels between Wuthering Heights characters: Catherine, Heathcliff and Edgar with Freud's Ego, ID and Super Ego respectively. It is interesting when you think about it like that. I don't think there is a Kafka style symbolism in Wuthering Heights, but a multi-layered story in which the story itself makes sense as it is, but if you dig deeper you find interesting concepts which completes or enhances the story on the surface. So in this context, I think Emily Bronte might have created Catherine, Heathcliff and Edgar from her inner self or from the general nature of mankind and give them life as characters with strong traits, both positive and negative. Heathcliff represents her own wild nature for Catherine and by succumbing to society which she wouldn't exactly fit in, she loses him, and her wild self. In the end she has an identity crisis where she can't even recognize herself in the mirror. Also in the book, Lockwood sees several last names with her name, foreshadowing and further contributing to this. When the ghost identifies herself as the waif, Cahterine Linton, Lockwood wonders why he thought about the name Linton instead of Earnshaw which he repeated much more times. I'm really enjoying your interperations though. It is an analysis that this book definitely deserves.
I don't know enough about Freudian psychoanalysis to comment on that I'm afraid. But I do think that it's likely that the character in Wuthering Heights reflect elements of Emily herself and the people she knew. And that they broadly fit into archetypes surrounding nature and society and the fight between the two. I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. Thanks for your insightful comments!
All my compliments from Italy. I'm not very good at English, but Wuthering Heights has always been my favorite novel and I've listened to all your videos and I agree with your analysis and I have learnt a lot. Thanks
No matter how hard I try to take Nelly's narrative point of view with a grain of salt, Cathy still comes across to me as a pretty toxic person. I wouldn't say she is a bad person though because it seems to me she suffers from mental illness and severe depression and I sympathize with her. Nelly says despite Cathy being narcissistic, and selfish and ruthless she is also very loyal to the people she loves. Yet, for me, her relationship with Heathcliff is beyond toxic, so much that it transcends death. That's the reason why I love this book so much. It's my all time favorite novel, because it's dark, tragic, with flawed, complex, conflicted characters. I am always amazed to see adaptations turn the book into an overly romantic story. It's about vengeance. It's ruthless, tragic and beautiful. Thank you for your videos, they are really awesome, I just subbed :)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :) Yeah it is very impressive that Bronté can come up with some pretty unlikable characters but still make you feel for them somehow. It would be great to see a faithful adaption of this book that doesn't romanticise it.
Catherine Earnshaw (Catherine senior) dreams of becoming Catherine Heathcliff but becomes Catherine Linton. She dies giving birth to a daughter. Catherine Linton (the daughter) briefly becomes Catherine Heathcliff. She is widowed and eventually becomes Catherine Earnshaw.
I really don’t understand why people hate Cathryn so much. I think she tried her hardest to be the kind of woman that people wanted her to be. She was a broken person and I think she chose Edgar because she thought he gave her a chance of healing that Heathcliffe couldn’t give her. And when she’s assassinating Heathcliffe’s character to Isabella, I think she’s talking about herself as much as she’s talking about him. She latched on to the love Edgar and Heathcliffe gave her. Edgar looked past her nature and loved her despite it, Heathcliffe loved her because of it. When she felt they both abandoned her, she had nothing left. If she had starved herself in protest as a child, no one would have cared, so when she does it as an adult and Nelly tells her that Edgar, the man she chose because she thought he was a sure bet, didn’t even care, it completely broke her. All of the love she had for herself came from the love others gave her. She took solace in knowing her death brought Heathcliffe agony, because she genuinely felt nobody cared whether she lived or died. I don’t think she was cruel or manipulative. At least not intentionally. Nelly clearly thought everything she did was manipulative, so that’s how she relayed it, but I think she was displaying genuine agony. She appeared to have thought, or at least hoped, Nelly was a person she could trust, but Nelly never saw an ounce of good in her. In general I think people tend to be too harsh on female characters. Any deviation from a kind hearted lady is treated with contempt. Cathryn is a genuine character who carries the weight of her adolescence into adulthood until it crushes her. Of course she is glad her death will mean something to someone. Heathcliffe had the power to lighten her load, and instead he bitterly piled more weight onto her back.
I think people are generally too harsh on both Heathcliff and Catherine, probably because of their violence and cruelty. But you are right to point out that Nelly is definitely a biased narrator, often openly confessing, especially with Catherine, that she doesn't see much virtue in her character. It's a shame people forget that when they judge Catherine and Heathcliff. Not to say they are the best and kindest of people, but their is more to them than Nelly let's on.
My goodness you really like Wuthering Heights, don't you? Well, I totally understand. Some stories resonate on deep levels for some reason and it inspires a really head-first dive into the characters and details and wanting others to love it too. I can't look sideways at anyone else about that, I can do the same thing with Scarlett O'Hara and other principles and lessers of GWTW. I can run on for hours about it. I will be spending all of tomorrow in airports and planes so I have your last 2 WH videos cued up and will listen. WH always made me groan or some reason, but maybe I've judged it too harshly. I'll give you the chance to change my mind. I get why you encourage a deeper understanding of this story, wanting the characters to be better understood. You are making me think it is worth a second (or third) look. I am currently rediscovering Nathaniel Hawthorne, particularly House of the Seven Gables. I haven't seen you mention Hawthorne, that would be interesting.
Yeah it is one of my favourite books for sure! I guess the themes just resonate with me a lot. I am glad you are getting a lot out of the series though. I'm enjoying making the series and I've got other books lined up for the future too!
I actually wonder what Catherine's plans for herself, or what her family's plans for her, looked like before the Lintons moved into town. As in, whom could she have married before the other family happened to arrive? The inhabitants of Wuthering Heights and Thrushcross Grange seem to have little contact with anyone outside their narrow circle. Or are we supposed to assume there are enough people around, but just that these characters are too obsessed with each other to register the presence of anyone else?
I could go for a drink with you just to talk Cathy. I first read WH when I was 10 years old, I've bought all my mates a copy and none of them have got back to me! I think Cathy is one of the most complex characters in any novel. I think because of the imagery we have from films and TV we forget that Cathy is a child or teenager for much of her story. I often dislike her, but I was lonely child reading about other lonely children, so Cathy and Heathcliff have always been part of my life.
I think Catherine married Edgar to escape abuse - there are women now as then who get married or run off with guys to get out of an abusive family environment and Cathy was certainly in that. The Lintons offered safety as much as love and with Heathcliff leaving she was alone.
I have a question. When Catherine describes Heathcliff as to how he is in real life to Isabella, you said that it was one of the reasons for Catherine to choose Linton over him. But despite this, we've seen Catherine still love Heathcliff and probably repenting her decision to marry Edgar when she says "Forgive me" to Heathcliff when he goes to meet her before her untimely death. Why is that so? Did Catherine acknowledge that she made a mistake by marrying Linton? Please reply me and help me decipher this intriguingly complex character of hers.
I think Catherine is conflicted between her choices. It cold be that when she tells Heathcliff how he is to Isabella that she is rationalising her mistake, and truly she does love him underneath (I didn't think this when I made this episode, but I think that's definitely a valid interpretation), or it could be that a part of her does recognise the cruelty of Heathcliff and rejects it. But then later she regrets it, when she realises that she ultimately belongs in the same wild world as Heathcliff. I'm inclined to think that the latter interpretation is correct. Catherine rejects Heathcliff and what he represents by going to the civilised Lintons. But by the time of her death she regrets her choice. That's why when she comes back as a ghost, she is a child tapping on the window. That scene mirrors the moment when Catherine changes; when she and Heathcliff were children, on the moors, in their wild world, peering through the windows of Thrushcross Grange. Catherine was let into the world of the Grange, but in death, she's trying to break back into the Heights. Those are my thoughts anyhow, thanks for your comment! It's always good to come back and think these things over, and there's so much more I could have touched on about Catherine in this video. :)
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall I distinctly remember when reading the book and seeing the various film versions that after Cathy accepted Edgar's marriage proposal, she expressed doubts then about her choice to Ellen Dean. One reason she gave was that she described a dream she had that she died and gone to heaven but felt she did not belong there, it was not her home, and the angels flung her out of heaven where she landed on top of Wuthering Heights sobbing for joy. Was it not the case that even then she felt she belonged to the world of Wuthering Heights and not Thrushcroft Grange and the Lintons. "I have no more business in marrying Edgar Linton than I have of being in heaven". You mention "in death, she's trying to break back into the Heights", but even after she just accepted Edgar she expressed reluctance to quit Wuthering Heights even then.
Well said 👏🏼 very informative video ❤️ I would like to discuss somethings here and there but I still have yet to reread it and I don’t trust my memory 🤣💔.
I hate love like this. It’s just. Idk it’s a trauma bond but, beyond the psychology and practical of a good life (proverbs) there’s also things we do not understand (which is why the supernatural of gothic appeals to so many).
I'm not sure Cathy had much choice. She marries Edgar Linton because siblings-- even adopted siblings-- could not marry under late 18th century British law. Mr. Earnshaw named Heathcliff after a "𝙨𝙤𝙣 𝙬𝙝𝙤 𝙙𝙞𝙚𝙙" and referred to him as Cathy's "brother" NOT as his "ward". Had Heathcliff been a ward, he and Catherine Earnshaw 𝙘𝙤𝙪𝙡𝙙 have married. But that was not Mr. Earnshaw's wish; he presented and treated Heathcliff as a son. Marriage with Heathcliff was illegal. Patrick Bronte, a curate who baptized, married, buried and visited sick parishioners-- would have known adopted siblings could not marry, as would his daughters. Secondly, Cathy initially plans to marry Edgar to help Heathcliff financially ("I can aid Heathcliff to rise") and escape bondage. She seems either ignorant or dismissive of the sexual responsibilities and constrained freedom marriage will impose. “Who is to separate us, pray?...Every Linton on the face of the earth might melt into nothing before I could consent to forsake Heathcliff."
Amazing book review! I always like it how you manage to touch upon things which I overlook, which adds another depth to the story. I love your channel I'm so happy I found it. Thanks to you I read The Monk by Lewis and it's my favourite gothic work that I've read so far. I also saw you posted a video on Sons & Lovers most recently. I wanted to read that book and I'm looking forward to see your reflections from the book. Best booktuber channel I've found so far! By the way, may I ask how you learned to analyze books so well? I read English literature at university but I never felt as if I came across good enough tools on how to analyze. What is your bakcground in this? Did you learn this at university or are you self taught? Greetings from a viewer in Sweden!
Glad you enjoyed the review! I don't know really to be honest. I did Philosophy and English literature at Undergrad but I dropped the English after the first year because I didn't enjoy it, though I do enjoy discussing books. So yeah I would say it's more an instinctive thing rather than something I've had concrete training in. :)
I think you went very easy on Cathy, yes tragic background but as she develop kind of seems she manipulate Edgar and Heathcliff… Wish you've more deep into the brokenness of her soul, is a very interesting subject ... She loves Heathcliff as a true twin flame, the lost of the connection with him kills her… for me Edgar was a warm bandage over an injury… she felt attracted to the warm but as she move on she sees that the love for Edgar is shallow ... She marrieds him cus she wanted to be seen and likeable and Edgar provide that status for her… No doubt she perish in the consequences of her own decisions ... Great video… looking forward to see more.
With that said, her husband remained faithful and loving to her. I think Catherine's love for Heathcliff was toxic and she would have been wise to have cut the strings and burned the bridge with him, once she married Edgar.
I disagree that Catherine is a so-called "narcissist" or so-called "mentally ill" because as someone who has worked with the psych industries and researched those terms from the DSM, there is actually no such thing as either. Both are actually an invented terms rooted in semi-atheism and an semi-Ancient Greek myth which was made to falsely label people who don't fit into the preconceived atheist based ideas of how people should behave. Similar, empath is another invented term meant to show the opposite but which nevertheless is equally false. All people have the capability of doing evil or becoming evil and as God documents, all human hearts are from our inception desperately sick and wicked. So with that said, anyone can do bad things and almost all of the characters in "Wuthering Heights" do so. So the term of "narcissist" is erroneous. So what then could we call Catherine? As others have pointed out - she is immature, selfish, rash, wayward, and ultimately sinful. She is sinful, though, NOT because she didn't choose Heathcliff. That actually was her God-given right to do so. What she WAS wrong for was basically adultery. She is an adulteress against her poor husband and when he finally has had enough of her abuse, she acts like a petulant whining self-harming child, and worse, she puts their child (baby Cathy) at risk. She remains an unrepentant adulteress to the end, and so to Heathcliff becomes an adulterer and abusive brute - though unlike Catherine, he starts to make some amendments for the wrongs he's done. I think had Catherine learned to love truly her husband Edgar, she would have come to realize how she was actually not repressed - that they were free. Catherine's tragedy is that she fails to appreciate and learn to love Edgar as he deserved and in doing so, she brings her fate onto herself. Likewise, there is no such thing as a twin flame, as that is another invented term. If you want more information about how erroneous the psych industries are, I highly recommend you to look up the evidence provided by the Bible, Dorothy Dundas, neurologist Dr. Fred Baughmann, Don D. Jackson, M.D, Dr. Loren R. Mosher, M.D., Wayne Ramsay, Colin A. Ross, M.D., Alvin Pam, Ph.D., et al., the website PsychVictims.com (of which I myself was a former victim and now survivor of the psych industries - as well as having been sexually assaulted as a minor at night more than once by a hospital orderly when I was sent by my parents to the psych ward at Children's Hospital in Washington DC back in 2001) , as well as the works by Lawrence Stevens, J.D., Don Weitz, "Therapy's Delusions" by Ethan Watters & Richard Ofshe, "Doctors of Deception: What They Don't Want You To Know About Shock Treatment" - by Linda Andre - reviewed by Stefan P. Kruszewski, M.D., a doctor who has administered shock treatment, "Deadly Psychiatry and Organised Denial" by Dr. Peter C. Gotzsche, PHD, etc among other references. I'd also recommend the documentaries "The DSM Bible"; "Marketing of Madness"; "Psychiatry - An Industry of Death", etc. I'd finally also recommend the growing amount of people who have been victims of the psychology, psychiatry, and so-called "mental therapy" industries and who are now speaking out the facts and who are exposing those industries. Worth looking into for those who truly seek the truth and who are genuinely open-minded. :) . Anyway, back on topic, Catherine is definitely not mentally ill (as there is no such thing) nor is she a narcissist. She is selfish, a cheater, abusive, unfaithful, unloving, etc and in the end, she gets what she deserves - death. I have little to no pity for her.
As someone who has done what the fictional Catherine did by rejecting a mutual deep love to find a better man to love, I admit that I've hurt two men, whom did not deserve it and I still regret it and pray God forgives me for what I've done. With that said, mercifully, I did not do what Catherine did once she found her poor ever loving husband Edgar. Once Catherine married Edgar, she should have burned the bridge between her and Heathcliff. That would have been the wise decision. That is what I did, in spite of the mutual devastation and heartache, when I dumped the ex-boyfriend before he proposed or we had married - thankfully. I realized that God had given us the freedom to choose to marry or not and, in spite of the fact that we did love and want to marry each other, I had made the decision that that ex was never going to be my husband and father of my children. I apologized to him and asked for his forgiveness, and then told him to never to expect me to come back and that I hoped he would either find another woman or learn to be on his own. We both were heartbroken. Fortunately, he reluctantly accepted it and wished me well. I wished him well. That was eleven years ago. I kept my word - I never did nor will go back to him. It took many nights of facing that pain and learning to rely on God to deal with it. I eventually learned I could survive on my own, with only God as my guide. To my surprise, after being single, I met another man who I did not love or want to love initially, but over time, he became my closest confidante and a true friend. We made no secrets - he knew about my love for the ex and when he had ample opportunity to leave, he chose to remain with me. After a decade, we finally got married as of last year! ^_^ My husband is my blessing. With that said, I do not recommend doing what Catherine did. What Catherine did by not cutting ties with Heathcliff once she married Edgar WAS selfish and beyond manipulative and cruel to not just Heathcliff but to her husband Edgar, too. The one I feel most sorry for of those original three is Edgar. Catherine did not deserve him, but he chose to love her unconditionally and in spite of everything, including Catherine's domestic abuse and unjustified violence towards him. He is a character to commend and feel genuine sorrow and sympathy for. As for Nelly, I think she is being honest and just being the impartial observer. I do think Catherine, however, had the right to reject whoever she wanted and had the right to marry whoever she wanted. I disagree that Catherine is a so-called "narcissist" because as someone who has worked with the psych industries and researched those terms from the DSM, it is actually an invented term rooted in semi-atheism and an semi-Ancient Greek myth which was made to falsely label people who don't fit into the preconceived atheist based ideas of how people should behave. Similar, empath is another invented term meant to show the opposite but which nevertheless is equally false. All people have the capability of doing evil or becoming evil and as God documents, all human hearts are from our inception desperately sick and wicked. So with that said, anyone can do bad things and almost all of the characters in "Wuthering Heights" do so. So the term of "narcissist" is erroneous. So what then could we call Catherine? As others have pointed out - she is immature, selfish, rash, wayward, and ultimately sinful. She is sinful, though, NOT because she didn't choose Heathcliff. That actually was her God-given right to do so. What she WAS wrong for was basically adultery. She is an adulteress against her poor husband and when he finally has had enough of her abuse, she acts like a petulant whining self-harming child, and worse, she puts their child (baby Cathy) at risk. Fortunately, Cathy is born without harm, but sadly, her mother learns nothing. She remains an adulteress to the end, and so to Heathcliff becomes an adulterer and abusive brute. I think had Catherine learned to love truly Edgar, she would have seen she was actually not repressed. Catherine's tragedy is that she fails to appreciate and learn to love her husband Edgar as he deserved.
Your story is an interesting one. I’m intrigued as to why you didn’t want to continue your relationship with the your ‘first love’. You had decided he wouldn’t be the one you wanted to marry, yet you both loved each other and with much heartache ended things. To the point of no return. In case of Catherine I understand to an extent how she was torn between the two men.
@@Cakewalkingbaby The thing is I did want to continue with the relationship with the old love. He was not my first love, though. I had loved another man deeply before him, but it sadly was unrequited, unfortunately. As for the old mutual love, it later turned out that he had had a daughter by another woman out of wedlock. When I found out, and he had tried to get me to go back to him, I reminded him again that I never was going to marry or be with him, and when he was crying and asked what he should do - I told him to go back to the mother of his child and try to amend things with her and stay together. Either way, I told him, you will have to learn to live without me for ever and ever permanently. That was that. Even if he had not had the child, I still was determined to reject him - once I made up my mind to do so. As to the other reason why I broke up with him, it was my own shallowness and cowardice as to why I rejected him, but in the end, I think God and the ex forgave me - if not, well, I hope God does. The fact is that in reality, sometimes, in life, even true love, compatibility, and chemistry does not always work out in the end. It was ironic because my Mom even accused me of acting like Catherine Earnshaw, and I had not even yet read the book. Overtime, though, even she came round and I'm glad that I learned some important lessons from it and I used that breakup as further inspiration to improve myself and taking the opportunities to grow and embrace being on my own before my blessing came - when God lead me to meet Frank, my husband. As far as anyone, I intend to be only with my husband for the rest of my life and I intend to die in Frank's arms, if God allows it. So, it worked out well in the end.
Thank you Emily for your response. The thing with me is that I’m with someone who is emotionally unavailable. Even though he tries really hard to overcome this, we have trouble maintaining a healthy relationship. I also struggle with my own self esteem, feeling rejected by him while this has nothing to do with being rejected but his inability to open up. We end up pushing each other away. We deeply care for each other but struggle if we should be together or not. Maybe only time will tell.
@@Cakewalkingbaby No problem. I like to think I did better than the fictional Catherine because I didn't try to get the ex back while with my husband. As for your situation, I understand - it sounds like your situation is more problematic. Hopefully, God will help you figure out what to do.
Heathcliff and Catherine are the same. But think of how miserable they would be if they had ever gotten together. It is like Scarlett and Ashley. If they had ever partnered the emotions would have waned quickly. (Although Ashely is a bit of a milk-sop so in this case Heathcliff is far more able to cause more unhappiness to a relationship) Can Catherine ever accept love? What is her idea of love? and it is even reasonable? As a side note I'd like to spy on you "taking Catherine out for a drink" LOL Would it end with her slapping your face like Edgar? At that point it would be up to you to release "that bit o' wild" in you mmmmm.... :)
I think you give Catherine way too much credit here. She selfishly agrees to marry Edgar for money, not even discussing with Heathcliff how they might be able to support her after they are married. Because she's so vain and selfish, she thinks she'll just be able to cheat with Heathcliff on the side, not recognizing how this would devastate Heathcliff and Edgar both, not to mention how impractical it is to think that she won't be discovered. I can appreciate how she came to be this way partly because she had a very poor upbringing, though, that was frankly abusive in many ways, as well.
Maybe i should have stuck with the video, but honestly I don't know how anyone could read Wuthering Heights with all its abuse & violence & think that a traumatized teenage girl is the easiest person to hate in the stories, not the abusers. Turned the video off after you said that. Maybe you need to read it again...
It's probably a good idea to let someone finish a point before you judge what they are saying, lest you misunderstand what they say. Section 1 of this video is called "empathising with Catherine" for a reason. Still even assuming that I had the interpretation that you, in your imagination gave me, your response is not a very good one. Many serial killers have abusive family backgrounds, and they are pretty easy people to hate because of their crimes. Abuse isn't an excuse. Plenty of people come from abusive families who don't grow up to be cruel. In fact, Hareton and young Cathy are two examples from Wuthering Heights itself. Maybe you should watch the video before you make a comment that makes you sound ignorant and rude.
There are so many disagreements with your analysis I can't begin to start. Just quickly: Catherine was terrified and furious that Elizabeth would marry Heathcliff because of pure rage and jealousy. Heathcliff belonged to Cathy and nobody else. She could not care a whit for Elizabeth's happiness, she did not fear for her---she feared only for herself. And there is no stronger declaration of love than saying what your souls are made of are the same. There is nothing odd about it, and nothing divorced from romantic love about it. The only thing I do agree with is that Catherine was not the perfect villain, but she was a petty, selfish woman who cared about nice and pretty things---not the "kindness" Edgar could give her. She regretted her folly before death and I am sure, after death.
Thank you for your thoughts! I think we agree on some things you've suggested here. My position about Catherine and Isabella isn't that Catherine fears for Isabella with Heathcliff. After all, she openly mocks her in the passage that I quoted. The purpose of that quote is to show simply that Catherine is under no delusions about Heathcliff's wild nature, and she is mocking Isabella here because Isabella thinks that Heathcliff is soft hearted underneath it all. I think you're right that Catherine is motivated in her mockery of Isabella here by jealousy and pure rage. I think that the soul/identification point is stronger than your interpretation. Cathy and Heathcliff don't just say that their souls are made of the same stuff, but that they are literally one and the same. This to me is a stronger claim than just "we are soul mates." Soul mates still see themselves as two individuals that come together to form a whole. I think Catherine's speech (and Heathcliff's declarations) go beyond that to a point that is obsessive rather than romantic. I guess in modern lingo we'd call it co-dependency. We actually disagree a bit about the point that you said we agreed on. I think the interpretation of Catherine as only caring about nice and pretty things, and this being her motivation comes from Nelly, who I think always offers the reader the most unforgiving interpretation of Catherine's actions. When we get little snippets of Catherine outside of Nelly's perspective, such as in her diary, I think we find someone who is more complicated than Nelly presents her. I do agree that she regretted her folly though. I mean, if the ghost is real, we can certainly see that. After all, it's Wuthering Heights that she wants to return to, not Thrushcross Grange.
In my opinion at least? Catherine's tragedy is that other people have and continue to force their own versions and expectations onto her and get upset when she either does or doesn't live up to them. Her love for Heathcliff is because he's her home. He's the one person to see her for the person she really is. Yeah, she's selfish and willful, but honestly? I would be too, if everyone constantly either expected the worst of me, or only loved their perceptions of me instead of who I really was.
I agree with you in part, although there is evidence to suggest, in the early portion of the story, that Catherine was always to some extent like the way she was. And I do think that it is her being tempted by the comforts and attention that she gets at Thrushcross when she is a girl (something she didn't really get from her parents, who preferred either Hindley or Heathcliff), rather than being forced to conform to other's expectations. I think the forcing comes later, once she has married Edgar and adopted that world.
When Catherine tells Nelly why she wants to marry Linton she mentions that this marriage would help to provide for both her and Heathcliff. She says crazy things but she sounds very innocent. She truly believes that Linton won't keep her away from Heathcliff and they all could be happy together. I think it shows that Cathy's feelings for Heathcliff are pure and strong, even though she tries to lie even to herself. She understands that there's something wrong, that is why she asks Nelly for her advice. But she clearly wants better future for herself AND for Heathcliff. She's afraid of poverty, she is as vulnerable as Heathcliff (that's what Nelly ignores) and she wants to find some help somewhere else, because she knows that they both need it. She's selfish because she doesn't think about both men's feelings, but it's not her fault. It's so amazing how Bronte shows how the environment can affect people 🤯
100% agree
In that sense I pity Cathy.
Although I think she was a bit of a lunatic to believe that Linton would allow her to have her little Heathcliff on the side. Basically she wanted to have the cake and eat it too. But I do understand where she was coming from. She was not wrong in saying she and Heathcliff would be beggars if they married each other. I sincerely don't know what I would have done in her shoes...
Yes! The difficulty women then had cannot be overlooked. They had to get married up to survive. And Catherine married Edgar ultimately for Heathcliff, which seems wrong when one thinks she should have married her true love… but what is true love when people get divorced and remarry all the time? That’s exactly what Catherine was saying when she talked about what her love towards Edgar was like; it changes over time. Her love towards Heathcliff was like ‘eternal rocks’. She did her best for her true love by not marrying him. And that in my opinion, is true love.
I agree that there was an innocence about Cathy, and she was only 15 or 16. She clearly didn't understand the expectations of marriage or romantic love at all, and Nelly calls this out explicitly.
I disliked nelly way more than Catherine. Catherine is a complex and unlikable character. She's abusive, selfish and petty. However, Nelly isn't less selfish or abusive towards Catherine, she's just in a lower position to be as abusive as Catherine. I can understand the reason behind Catherine's cruelty, I cannot understand the reason behind Nellys cruelty towards Catherine.
You're missing something huge here: Heathcliff inherited nothing. He has no education, no profession and no money. Hindley has done all he can to degrade him. Catherine says that if she marries him she will be living in haystacks. Heathcliff runs off when he hears this, coming back years later with more wealth than Hindley. But by then it's too late. With no word from Heathcliff and no other options, Catherine has married Edgar.
Catherine has been definitely one of the most misunderstood characters ever, especially because of Nelly and her interpretations of her. In her deathbed Catherine has an epiphany and gets to see Nelly for who she is, whereas throughout her whole life she viewed Nelly as an older sister figure and trusted her, while Nelly hated her in return. Nelly also misunderstood Cathy’s illness by thinking “she made herself ill to spite everyone”. When heathcliff left the first time doctor said that Catherine has a very weak health already and she shouldn’t be vexed and we get to see that in fact she does have a very weak health and a minor inconvenience along with her being pregnant sent her into her grave.
An interesting interpretation. I agree with you for the most part; Nelly does constantly give the worst interpretation of Catherine's motivations. That said, I think she (Catherine), does sometimes exploit her illness to get what she wants, and certainly uses her temper to do it.
She's not a perfect character, but that's why she's so interesting. And she's definitely not the monster that Nelly makes her out to be.
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall wuthering heights has so many ambiguities this is why it’s a classic. Emily was a very ambiguous and mysterious person herself it’s only fitting that she wrote a book mostly based on personal opinions and interpretations. Is the ghost real or not? Was perhaps heathcliff more than a simple orphan that mr earnshaw adopted ? Perhaps an illegitimate son? How did he become rich? Was Cathy simply a woman gone undiagnosed suffering from a mental disorder? Could she make herself ill on purpose or was she rather honestly ill and Nelly interpreted all this based on her own assumptions of her? Was Catherine’s and Heathcliffs love honest or was it circumstantial love because they were together all the time? We will never know and that’s the magic of it all . Thank you for bringing this lovely book to notice. Many people dislike it thinking they where supposed to read a Jane Austen romance when in fact wuthering heights is so much more than this.
I think Catherine wanted respect for herself and for Heathcliffe, and also for her decision to be responsible for themselves as a couple. It's like The Man Who Fell to Earth! Perhaps she thought if they stayed together they would perish (folle a deux) so insecurities pushed her like the moorland wind to her unwitting fate.
I've always trusted Catherine's entry more than what Nellie said about her. Wuthering Heights is certainly the kind of book where one has to take into account who's telling the story and why they'd view its protagonists the way they do...
Yeah I agree with you there! :)
So true
man, I can listen to you all day talking about Wuthering Heights, it is a very difficult story to deal with, in my opinion it is simply an immense tragedy, I think that Cathy made the decision in a way too cerebral, taking into account material and social issues, decision That ended up killing her, she was a wild force of nature that, as in her dreams, was clear, she preferred the mud with heatcliff instead of the sky with the angels, greetings from Colombia.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy the series! Yeah I think you are right there about Cathy. She should have followed her heart, especially because as Heathcliff showed by leaving, he could have made something of himself without pandering to the gentry!
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall EXACTLY ¡¡¡
I love that you point out that can't was a victim child abuse. She and Heathcliff bonded over survival which explains their desperate connection. It angers me how everyone overlooks this. And her diary really makes this clear. Thank you!
I got the impression that Cathy looked on Heathcliff more as an adopted brother than a potential lover, whereas Heathcliff was more sensual.
When Cathy stays with the Lintons, she comes to see what a home can be, what a childhood could be. She gets to see that she has a possible escape from the oppressive abuse of her family. The tragedy is that she must abandon Heathcliff, totally. And this betrayal truly leaves him bereft in ways that she was never at risk of being. So sad.
This was a really great video thank you so much! I haven't quite finished watching, so don't know if you mention it, but I think the part about Catherine and Heathcliff actually being part of each other is a really significant idea. I think in chapter 12 in Catherines deterioration, there are so many moments which suggest this. I think a really interesting moment is when she looks in the mirror and actually doesn't recognise herself. her health has deteriorated due to heath cliffs absence, and due to this 'part' of her being missing (the primitive side) she literally cannot identify herself. Its also interesting to note this because she is within the confinement of thrush cross grange and so will look the 'part' of the repressed woman in society. without the wildness of Heathcliff, all that remains is the side of her shaped by civilisation. She then opens the window and imagines seeing wuthering heights which emphasises how this lack of the part of her that is Heathcliff, is something that she ultimately desires. Just thought it was a cool extra bit of info for anyone interested :)
It's been a while, so I don't know if I mention it in this or another episode, but either way, you are right about the connection between the two of them. Thanks for your thoughts!
While reading the book, I felt many a times that Heathcliff and catherine are locked in their love for each other, they don't want to be with each other but its aching to be without the other... its as a devil has been attached with them who is not wanting to release them. while, with Mr. Edgar Catherine is content and reaxed... tthough she remembers heathcliff often but she is by herself and her life is not as miserable as with heathcliff...
Catherine describing her feelings for Heathcliff kind of resonates with Emily's poem, "Love and Friendship". Also I'm thinking that Catherine and Heathcliff saying that they are one and the same several times is clearly there to indicate something. I remember there was an essay on the parallels between Wuthering Heights characters: Catherine, Heathcliff and Edgar with Freud's Ego, ID and Super Ego respectively. It is interesting when you think about it like that. I don't think there is a Kafka style symbolism in Wuthering Heights, but a multi-layered story in which the story itself makes sense as it is, but if you dig deeper you find interesting concepts which completes or enhances the story on the surface. So in this context, I think Emily Bronte might have created Catherine, Heathcliff and Edgar from her inner self or from the general nature of mankind and give them life as characters with strong traits, both positive and negative. Heathcliff represents her own wild nature for Catherine and by succumbing to society which she wouldn't exactly fit in, she loses him, and her wild self. In the end she has an identity crisis where she can't even recognize herself in the mirror. Also in the book, Lockwood sees several last names with her name, foreshadowing and further contributing to this. When the ghost identifies herself as the waif, Cahterine Linton, Lockwood wonders why he thought about the name Linton instead of Earnshaw which he repeated much more times.
I'm really enjoying your interperations though. It is an analysis that this book definitely deserves.
I don't know enough about Freudian psychoanalysis to comment on that I'm afraid. But I do think that it's likely that the character in Wuthering Heights reflect elements of Emily herself and the people she knew. And that they broadly fit into archetypes surrounding nature and society and the fight between the two. I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. Thanks for your insightful comments!
Catherine was in a lot of mental pain and therefor chose to love heathcliff who was also in a lot of pain.
All my compliments from Italy. I'm not very good at English, but Wuthering Heights has always been my favorite novel and I've listened to all your videos and I agree with your analysis and I have learnt a lot. Thanks
It is a fantastic book, one of my favourites too! I'm glad that you found the videos interesting :)
No matter how hard I try to take Nelly's narrative point of view with a grain of salt, Cathy still comes across to me as a pretty toxic person. I wouldn't say she is a bad person though because it seems to me she suffers from mental illness and severe depression and I sympathize with her. Nelly says despite Cathy being narcissistic, and selfish and ruthless she is also very loyal to the people she loves. Yet, for me, her relationship with Heathcliff is beyond toxic, so much that it transcends death. That's the reason why I love this book so much. It's my all time favorite novel, because it's dark, tragic, with flawed, complex, conflicted characters. I am always amazed to see adaptations turn the book into an overly romantic story. It's about vengeance. It's ruthless, tragic and beautiful. Thank you for your videos, they are really awesome, I just subbed :)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :) Yeah it is very impressive that Bronté can come up with some pretty unlikable characters but still make you feel for them somehow.
It would be great to see a faithful adaption of this book that doesn't romanticise it.
Catherine Earnshaw (Catherine senior) dreams of becoming Catherine Heathcliff but becomes Catherine Linton. She dies giving birth to a daughter.
Catherine Linton (the daughter) briefly becomes Catherine Heathcliff. She is widowed and eventually becomes Catherine Earnshaw.
I really don’t understand why people hate Cathryn so much. I think she tried her hardest to be the kind of woman that people wanted her to be. She was a broken person and I think she chose Edgar because she thought he gave her a chance of healing that Heathcliffe couldn’t give her. And when she’s assassinating Heathcliffe’s character to Isabella, I think she’s talking about herself as much as she’s talking about him. She latched on to the love Edgar and Heathcliffe gave her. Edgar looked past her nature and loved her despite it, Heathcliffe loved her because of it. When she felt they both abandoned her, she had nothing left. If she had starved herself in protest as a child, no one would have cared, so when she does it as an adult and Nelly tells her that Edgar, the man she chose because she thought he was a sure bet, didn’t even care, it completely broke her. All of the love she had for herself came from the love others gave her. She took solace in knowing her death brought Heathcliffe agony, because she genuinely felt nobody cared whether she lived or died. I don’t think she was cruel or manipulative. At least not intentionally. Nelly clearly thought everything she did was manipulative, so that’s how she relayed it, but I think she was displaying genuine agony. She appeared to have thought, or at least hoped, Nelly was a person she could trust, but Nelly never saw an ounce of good in her. In general I think people tend to be too harsh on female characters. Any deviation from a kind hearted lady is treated with contempt. Cathryn is a genuine character who carries the weight of her adolescence into adulthood until it crushes her. Of course she is glad her death will mean something to someone. Heathcliffe had the power to lighten her load, and instead he bitterly piled more weight onto her back.
I think people are generally too harsh on both Heathcliff and Catherine, probably because of their violence and cruelty. But you are right to point out that Nelly is definitely a biased narrator, often openly confessing, especially with Catherine, that she doesn't see much virtue in her character. It's a shame people forget that when they judge Catherine and Heathcliff. Not to say they are the best and kindest of people, but their is more to them than Nelly let's on.
My goodness you really like Wuthering Heights, don't you? Well, I totally understand. Some stories resonate on deep levels for some reason and it inspires a really head-first dive into the characters and details and wanting others to love it too. I can't look sideways at anyone else about that, I can do the same thing with Scarlett O'Hara and other principles and lessers of GWTW. I can run on for hours about it. I will be spending all of tomorrow in airports and planes so I have your last 2 WH videos cued up and will listen. WH always made me groan or some reason, but maybe I've judged it too harshly. I'll give you the chance to change my mind. I get why you encourage a deeper understanding of this story, wanting the characters to be better understood. You are making me think it is worth a second (or third) look. I am currently rediscovering Nathaniel Hawthorne, particularly House of the Seven Gables. I haven't seen you mention Hawthorne, that would be interesting.
Yeah it is one of my favourite books for sure! I guess the themes just resonate with me a lot. I am glad you are getting a lot out of the series though. I'm enjoying making the series and I've got other books lined up for the future too!
I actually wonder what Catherine's plans for herself, or what her family's plans for her, looked like before the Lintons moved into town. As in, whom could she have married before the other family happened to arrive? The inhabitants of Wuthering Heights and Thrushcross Grange seem to have little contact with anyone outside their narrow circle. Or are we supposed to assume there are enough people around, but just that these characters are too obsessed with each other to register the presence of anyone else?
I could go for a drink with you just to talk Cathy. I first read WH when I was 10 years old, I've bought all my mates a copy and none of them have got back to me! I think Cathy is one of the most complex characters in any novel. I think because of the imagery we have from films and TV we forget that Cathy is a child or teenager for much of her story. I often dislike her, but I was lonely child reading about other lonely children, so Cathy and Heathcliff have always been part of my life.
You've got a wonderful insight l must say. Really enjoyed your perspective. Please do more Victorian Classics.
Thank you, I plan to start on a Dracula series very soon!
Shivangi, It's a Georgian classic, not Victorian.
I think Catherine married Edgar to escape abuse - there are women now as then who get married or run off with guys to get out of an abusive family environment and Cathy was certainly in that. The Lintons offered safety as much as love and with Heathcliff leaving she was alone.
I especially agree with this interpretation of Catherine's character
Thanks! :)
I was looking for this kind of analysis for a while, and finally I found you!
I'm glad you found me. :)
Nellie doesn't have any romantic insight - she's just a commonplace person with common sense perceptions.
Ouch! :P
excellent analysis, thank you. Joshua 😊😊
My pleasure!
What an analysis man!
so informative, thank you
I have a question. When Catherine describes Heathcliff as to how he is in real life to Isabella, you said that it was one of the reasons for Catherine to choose Linton over him. But despite this, we've seen Catherine still love Heathcliff and probably repenting her decision to marry Edgar when she says "Forgive me" to Heathcliff when he goes to meet her before her untimely death. Why is that so? Did Catherine acknowledge that she made a mistake by marrying Linton? Please reply me and help me decipher this intriguingly complex character of hers.
I think Catherine is conflicted between her choices. It cold be that when she tells Heathcliff how he is to Isabella that she is rationalising her mistake, and truly she does love him underneath (I didn't think this when I made this episode, but I think that's definitely a valid interpretation), or it could be that a part of her does recognise the cruelty of Heathcliff and rejects it. But then later she regrets it, when she realises that she ultimately belongs in the same wild world as Heathcliff.
I'm inclined to think that the latter interpretation is correct. Catherine rejects Heathcliff and what he represents by going to the civilised Lintons. But by the time of her death she regrets her choice. That's why when she comes back as a ghost, she is a child tapping on the window. That scene mirrors the moment when Catherine changes; when she and Heathcliff were children, on the moors, in their wild world, peering through the windows of Thrushcross Grange. Catherine was let into the world of the Grange, but in death, she's trying to break back into the Heights.
Those are my thoughts anyhow, thanks for your comment! It's always good to come back and think these things over, and there's so much more I could have touched on about Catherine in this video. :)
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall thank you so much brother. I appreciate your views a lot.
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall I distinctly remember when reading the book and seeing the various film versions that after Cathy accepted Edgar's marriage proposal, she expressed doubts then about her choice to Ellen Dean. One reason she gave was that she described a dream she had that she died and gone to heaven but felt she did not belong there, it was not her home, and the angels flung her out of heaven where she landed on top of Wuthering Heights sobbing for joy. Was it not the case that even then she felt she belonged to the world of Wuthering Heights and not Thrushcroft Grange and the Lintons. "I have no more business in marrying Edgar Linton than I have of being in heaven". You mention "in death, she's trying to break back into the Heights", but even after she just accepted Edgar she expressed reluctance to quit Wuthering Heights even then.
Well said 👏🏼 very informative video ❤️ I would like to discuss somethings here and there but I still have yet to reread it and I don’t trust my memory 🤣💔.
No worries, glad you enjoyed it!
I hate love like this. It’s just.
Idk it’s a trauma bond but, beyond the psychology and practical of a good life (proverbs) there’s also things we do not understand (which is why the supernatural of gothic appeals to so many).
I'm not sure Cathy had much choice. She marries Edgar Linton because siblings-- even adopted siblings-- could not marry under late 18th century British law. Mr. Earnshaw named Heathcliff after a "𝙨𝙤𝙣 𝙬𝙝𝙤 𝙙𝙞𝙚𝙙" and referred to him as Cathy's "brother" NOT as his "ward". Had Heathcliff been a ward, he and Catherine Earnshaw 𝙘𝙤𝙪𝙡𝙙 have married. But that was not Mr. Earnshaw's wish; he presented and treated Heathcliff as a son. Marriage with Heathcliff was illegal. Patrick Bronte, a curate who baptized, married, buried and visited sick parishioners-- would have known adopted siblings could not marry, as would his daughters. Secondly, Cathy initially plans to marry Edgar to help Heathcliff financially ("I can aid Heathcliff to rise") and escape bondage. She seems either ignorant or dismissive of the sexual responsibilities and constrained freedom marriage will impose. “Who is to separate us, pray?...Every Linton on the face of the earth might melt into nothing before I could consent to forsake Heathcliff."
I concur with Ye
Beautiful video ! Thanks a lot 💙
Now I don’t hate Catherine because I feel like I’ve been believing a snitcher who is Nelly
Amazing book review! I always like it how you manage to touch upon things which I overlook, which adds another depth to the story. I love your channel I'm so happy I found it. Thanks to you I read The Monk by Lewis and it's my favourite gothic work that I've read so far. I also saw you posted a video on Sons & Lovers most recently. I wanted to read that book and I'm looking forward to see your reflections from the book. Best booktuber channel I've found so far! By the way, may I ask how you learned to analyze books so well? I read English literature at university but I never felt as if I came across good enough tools on how to analyze. What is your bakcground in this? Did you learn this at university or are you self taught? Greetings from a viewer in Sweden!
Glad you enjoyed the review! I don't know really to be honest. I did Philosophy and English literature at Undergrad but I dropped the English after the first year because I didn't enjoy it, though I do enjoy discussing books. So yeah I would say it's more an instinctive thing rather than something I've had concrete training in. :)
I think you went very easy on Cathy, yes tragic background but as she develop kind of seems she manipulate Edgar and Heathcliff…
Wish you've more deep into the brokenness of her soul, is a very interesting subject ...
She loves Heathcliff as a true twin flame, the lost of the connection with him kills her… for me Edgar was a warm bandage over an injury… she felt attracted to the warm but as she move on she sees that the love for Edgar is shallow ...
She marrieds him cus she wanted to be seen and likeable and Edgar provide that status for her…
No doubt she perish in the consequences of her own decisions ...
Great video… looking forward to see more.
With that said, her husband remained faithful and loving to her. I think Catherine's love for Heathcliff was toxic and she would have been wise to have cut the strings and burned the bridge with him, once she married Edgar.
I disagree that Catherine is a so-called "narcissist" or so-called "mentally ill" because as someone who has worked with the psych industries and researched those terms from the DSM, there is actually no such thing as either. Both are actually an invented terms rooted in semi-atheism and an semi-Ancient Greek myth which was made to falsely label people who don't fit into the preconceived atheist based ideas of how people should behave. Similar, empath is another invented term meant to show the opposite but which nevertheless is equally false. All people have the capability of doing evil or becoming evil and as God documents, all human hearts are from our inception desperately sick and wicked. So with that said, anyone can do bad things and almost all of the characters in "Wuthering Heights" do so. So the term of "narcissist" is erroneous. So what then could we call Catherine? As others have pointed out - she is immature, selfish, rash, wayward, and ultimately sinful. She is sinful, though, NOT because she didn't choose Heathcliff. That actually was her God-given right to do so. What she WAS wrong for was basically adultery. She is an adulteress against her poor husband and when he finally has had enough of her abuse, she acts like a petulant whining self-harming child, and worse, she puts their child (baby Cathy) at risk. She remains an unrepentant adulteress to the end, and so to Heathcliff becomes an adulterer and abusive brute - though unlike Catherine, he starts to make some amendments for the wrongs he's done. I think had Catherine learned to love truly her husband Edgar, she would have come to realize how she was actually not repressed - that they were free. Catherine's tragedy is that she fails to appreciate and learn to love Edgar as he deserved and in doing so, she brings her fate onto herself. Likewise, there is no such thing as a twin flame, as that is another invented term. If you want more information about how erroneous the psych industries are, I highly recommend you to look up the evidence provided by the Bible, Dorothy Dundas, neurologist Dr. Fred Baughmann, Don D. Jackson, M.D, Dr. Loren R. Mosher, M.D., Wayne Ramsay, Colin A. Ross, M.D., Alvin Pam, Ph.D., et al., the website PsychVictims.com (of which I myself was a former victim and now survivor of the psych industries - as well as having been sexually assaulted as a minor at night more than once by a hospital orderly when I was sent by my parents to the psych ward at Children's Hospital in Washington DC back in 2001) , as well as the works by Lawrence Stevens, J.D., Don Weitz, "Therapy's Delusions" by Ethan Watters & Richard Ofshe, "Doctors of Deception: What They Don't Want You To Know About Shock Treatment" - by Linda Andre - reviewed by Stefan P. Kruszewski, M.D., a doctor who has administered shock treatment, "Deadly Psychiatry and Organised Denial" by Dr. Peter C. Gotzsche, PHD, etc among other references. I'd also recommend the documentaries "The DSM Bible"; "Marketing of Madness"; "Psychiatry - An Industry of Death", etc. I'd finally also recommend the growing amount of people who have been victims of the psychology, psychiatry, and so-called "mental therapy" industries and who are now speaking out the facts and who are exposing those industries. Worth looking into for those who truly seek the truth and who are genuinely open-minded. :) . Anyway, back on topic, Catherine is definitely not mentally ill (as there is no such thing) nor is she a narcissist. She is selfish, a cheater, abusive, unfaithful, unloving, etc and in the end, she gets what she deserves - death. I have little to no pity for her.
thanks, your Video really helps a lot.
Catherine knows Heathcliff is a narcissist
Catherine is like a Gemini, two sided personality.
As someone who has done what the fictional Catherine did by rejecting a mutual deep love to find a better man to love, I admit that I've hurt two men, whom did not deserve it and I still regret it and pray God forgives me for what I've done. With that said, mercifully, I did not do what Catherine did once she found her poor ever loving husband Edgar. Once Catherine married Edgar, she should have burned the bridge between her and Heathcliff. That would have been the wise decision. That is what I did, in spite of the mutual devastation and heartache, when I dumped the ex-boyfriend before he proposed or we had married - thankfully. I realized that God had given us the freedom to choose to marry or not and, in spite of the fact that we did love and want to marry each other, I had made the decision that that ex was never going to be my husband and father of my children. I apologized to him and asked for his forgiveness, and then told him to never to expect me to come back and that I hoped he would either find another woman or learn to be on his own. We both were heartbroken. Fortunately, he reluctantly accepted it and wished me well. I wished him well. That was eleven years ago. I kept my word - I never did nor will go back to him. It took many nights of facing that pain and learning to rely on God to deal with it. I eventually learned I could survive on my own, with only God as my guide. To my surprise, after being single, I met another man who I did not love or want to love initially, but over time, he became my closest confidante and a true friend. We made no secrets - he knew about my love for the ex and when he had ample opportunity to leave, he chose to remain with me. After a decade, we finally got married as of last year! ^_^ My husband is my blessing. With that said, I do not recommend doing what Catherine did. What Catherine did by not cutting ties with Heathcliff once she married Edgar WAS selfish and beyond manipulative and cruel to not just Heathcliff but to her husband Edgar, too. The one I feel most sorry for of those original three is Edgar. Catherine did not deserve him, but he chose to love her unconditionally and in spite of everything, including Catherine's domestic abuse and unjustified violence towards him. He is a character to commend and feel genuine sorrow and sympathy for. As for Nelly, I think she is being honest and just being the impartial observer. I do think Catherine, however, had the right to reject whoever she wanted and had the right to marry whoever she wanted. I disagree that Catherine is a so-called "narcissist" because as someone who has worked with the psych industries and researched those terms from the DSM, it is actually an invented term rooted in semi-atheism and an semi-Ancient Greek myth which was made to falsely label people who don't fit into the preconceived atheist based ideas of how people should behave. Similar, empath is another invented term meant to show the opposite but which nevertheless is equally false. All people have the capability of doing evil or becoming evil and as God documents, all human hearts are from our inception desperately sick and wicked. So with that said, anyone can do bad things and almost all of the characters in "Wuthering Heights" do so. So the term of "narcissist" is erroneous. So what then could we call Catherine? As others have pointed out - she is immature, selfish, rash, wayward, and ultimately sinful. She is sinful, though, NOT because she didn't choose Heathcliff. That actually was her God-given right to do so. What she WAS wrong for was basically adultery. She is an adulteress against her poor husband and when he finally has had enough of her abuse, she acts like a petulant whining self-harming child, and worse, she puts their child (baby Cathy) at risk. Fortunately, Cathy is born without harm, but sadly, her mother learns nothing. She remains an adulteress to the end, and so to Heathcliff becomes an adulterer and abusive brute. I think had Catherine learned to love truly Edgar, she would have seen she was actually not repressed. Catherine's tragedy is that she fails to appreciate and learn to love her husband Edgar as he deserved.
Your story is an interesting one. I’m intrigued as to why you didn’t want to continue your relationship with the your ‘first love’. You had decided he wouldn’t be the one you wanted to marry, yet you both loved each other and with much heartache ended things. To the point of no return. In case of Catherine I understand to an extent how she was torn between the two men.
@@Cakewalkingbaby The thing is I did want to continue with the relationship with the old love. He was not my first love, though. I had loved another man deeply before him, but it sadly was unrequited, unfortunately. As for the old mutual love, it later turned out that he had had a daughter by another woman out of wedlock. When I found out, and he had tried to get me to go back to him, I reminded him again that I never was going to marry or be with him, and when he was crying and asked what he should do - I told him to go back to the mother of his child and try to amend things with her and stay together. Either way, I told him, you will have to learn to live without me for ever and ever permanently. That was that. Even if he had not had the child, I still was determined to reject him - once I made up my mind to do so. As to the other reason why I broke up with him, it was my own shallowness and cowardice as to why I rejected him, but in the end, I think God and the ex forgave me - if not, well, I hope God does. The fact is that in reality, sometimes, in life, even true love, compatibility, and chemistry does not always work out in the end. It was ironic because my Mom even accused me of acting like Catherine Earnshaw, and I had not even yet read the book. Overtime, though, even she came round and I'm glad that I learned some important lessons from it and I used that breakup as further inspiration to improve myself and taking the opportunities to grow and embrace being on my own before my blessing came - when God lead me to meet Frank, my husband. As far as anyone, I intend to be only with my husband for the rest of my life and I intend to die in Frank's arms, if God allows it. So, it worked out well in the end.
Thank you Emily for your response.
The thing with me is that I’m with someone who is emotionally unavailable. Even though he tries really hard to overcome this, we have trouble maintaining a healthy relationship. I also struggle with my own self esteem, feeling rejected by him while this has nothing to do with being rejected but his inability to open up. We end up pushing each other away. We deeply care for each other but struggle if we should be together or not. Maybe only time will tell.
@@Cakewalkingbaby No problem. I like to think I did better than the fictional Catherine because I didn't try to get the ex back while with my husband. As for your situation, I understand - it sounds like your situation is more problematic. Hopefully, God will help you figure out what to do.
Heathcliff and Catherine are the same. But think of how miserable they would be if they had ever gotten together. It is like Scarlett and Ashley. If they had ever partnered the emotions would have waned quickly. (Although Ashely is a bit of a milk-sop so in this case Heathcliff is far more able to cause more unhappiness to a relationship) Can Catherine ever accept love? What is her idea of love? and it is even reasonable? As a side note I'd like to spy on you "taking Catherine out for a drink" LOL Would it end with her slapping your face like Edgar? At that point it would be up to you to release "that bit o' wild" in you mmmmm.... :)
I think it is more like Scarlett and Rhett. Both self-destructive and both just not suitable.
I think you give Catherine way too much credit here. She selfishly agrees to marry Edgar for money, not even discussing with Heathcliff how they might be able to support her after they are married. Because she's so vain and selfish, she thinks she'll just be able to cheat with Heathcliff on the side, not recognizing how this would devastate Heathcliff and Edgar both, not to mention how impractical it is to think that she won't be discovered. I can appreciate how she came to be this way partly because she had a very poor upbringing, though, that was frankly abusive in many ways, as well.
Maybe i should have stuck with the video, but honestly I don't know how anyone could read Wuthering Heights with all its abuse & violence & think that a traumatized teenage girl is the easiest person to hate in the stories, not the abusers. Turned the video off after you said that. Maybe you need to read it again...
It's probably a good idea to let someone finish a point before you judge what they are saying, lest you misunderstand what they say. Section 1 of this video is called "empathising with Catherine" for a reason.
Still even assuming that I had the interpretation that you, in your imagination gave me, your response is not a very good one. Many serial killers have abusive family backgrounds, and they are pretty easy people to hate because of their crimes. Abuse isn't an excuse. Plenty of people come from abusive families who don't grow up to be cruel. In fact, Hareton and young Cathy are two examples from Wuthering Heights itself.
Maybe you should watch the video before you make a comment that makes you sound ignorant and rude.
There are so many disagreements with your analysis I can't begin to start. Just quickly: Catherine was terrified and furious that Elizabeth would marry Heathcliff because of pure rage and jealousy. Heathcliff belonged to Cathy and nobody else. She could not care a whit for Elizabeth's happiness, she did not fear for her---she feared only for herself. And there is no stronger declaration of love than saying what your souls are made of are the same. There is nothing odd about it, and nothing divorced from romantic love about it.
The only thing I do agree with is that Catherine was not the perfect villain, but she was a petty, selfish woman who cared about nice and pretty things---not the "kindness" Edgar could give her. She regretted her folly before death and I am sure, after death.
Thank you for your thoughts! I think we agree on some things you've suggested here. My position about Catherine and Isabella isn't that Catherine fears for Isabella with Heathcliff. After all, she openly mocks her in the passage that I quoted. The purpose of that quote is to show simply that Catherine is under no delusions about Heathcliff's wild nature, and she is mocking Isabella here because Isabella thinks that Heathcliff is soft hearted underneath it all. I think you're right that Catherine is motivated in her mockery of Isabella here by jealousy and pure rage.
I think that the soul/identification point is stronger than your interpretation. Cathy and Heathcliff don't just say that their souls are made of the same stuff, but that they are literally one and the same. This to me is a stronger claim than just "we are soul mates." Soul mates still see themselves as two individuals that come together to form a whole. I think Catherine's speech (and Heathcliff's declarations) go beyond that to a point that is obsessive rather than romantic. I guess in modern lingo we'd call it co-dependency.
We actually disagree a bit about the point that you said we agreed on. I think the interpretation of Catherine as only caring about nice and pretty things, and this being her motivation comes from Nelly, who I think always offers the reader the most unforgiving interpretation of Catherine's actions. When we get little snippets of Catherine outside of Nelly's perspective, such as in her diary, I think we find someone who is more complicated than Nelly presents her.
I do agree that she regretted her folly though. I mean, if the ghost is real, we can certainly see that. After all, it's Wuthering Heights that she wants to return to, not Thrushcross Grange.