Yeah, but when you deliver as much of everything as you can, it turns out they wanted half of it to work totally differently and actually didn't care about the other half of it at all.
@@manniefresh730 Exactly what I was thinking! The patient, the doctor, the hospital, the insurance company, all want something different, and it better be the best!
@@asharak84 It's more like 20%, but the thing is, every customer wants a slightly different 20% of the feature set of a program, so the developers throw up their hands, include EVERYTHING, the software is a buggy, bloated mess, nobody likes it, but they have to use it anyway because it was the only way to give everyone what they wanted.
as a comp sci student, I can understand this. but people dont think they are getting a tangible item when it comes to software, they see it as something that was already made and does not require raw materials to make, so it should be free. they dont see how much work went into developing said software
I had a 99 Civic in High School. Car saved my life. I didn't crash it or anything, but driving it reminded me how enjoyable life can be, and to keep moving forward. 6th generation Civics remain my favorite car of all time.
Hey, I work for a manufacturer in design engineering. Thanks for making this video. I feel like there's often a disconnect between what enthusiasts think car manufacturers should do, and what they CAN do while still continuing to exist (make money).
John Hoo I’ll give you a tip to get many people in my generation (gen z) to buy cars. Build cars with souls again. People who truly love cars, want something that looks cool. (making cars all look like toyota camries doesn’t look cool. Think classic designs). More metal, less plastic. Nobody wants to drive around in a hot wheel. Just stop listening to the government regulations, they will cause your companies to fail. Your corporations are immensly powerful. If you decided to simply stop respecting the imagined authority of the government that make your jobs harder, younger people would buy cars again. If you continue down the path you’re going down, people my age will simply continue to buy classic cars off of craislist instead of new cars tgat no longer inspire us.
@@DeadlycheesePeople I also have an older 86 f150, but new cars today are so much better then old ones in almost every aspect, sure style from the 50's and 60's were fantastic, but they still exist so enjoy them. I want fuel economy, and less damaging materials in my world. Secondly the part about the believed authority is where you lost me, without it you would live in a place like somalia, which also still exists so maybe a move would give you some fresh air away from government control.
If people bought cars based on need the F-150 wouldn’t be the best selling vehicle in the states. I bet over half of the buyers don’t do anything that requires a truck or SUV, and i often see them on the road, not hauling anything, nothing in the bed, only the driver in the cab. Like why? In own a truck because I have to for work, but i rather have a small car. Why? -Cheaper to buy -cheaper tires -less cylinders -easier to park -better mpg -better handling Long story short, people are stupid, and their choices are not always whats best for them.
People often need a truck a couple times a month or even less but can only afford/garage 1 vehicle (or wife has car for car things/husband has truck for occasional truck things). If they buy a small car they are going to have to rent a truck frequently or use their cars in ways they shouldn't. Also, it is nice to have a truck in the extended family to handle everyone's needs. So, you may see them drive that truck without something in the bed but they do use it. They may even have a car but it is too nice or specialized to drive everyday or to the supermarket. So I reject your argument. People mainly buy trucks for the utility.
@@joeblack1052 You can claim that to be the case, but I already explained to you that it isn't. There may be some percentage that just buy a truck ONLY because they are posers, but most people buy for the utility.
@@joeblack1052 Well Joe, not sure what to tell you. Maybe where you live is different then where I have spent most of my life (Kentucky and southern Indiana). Around here, there's a lot of people that are making use of their trucks for things other than posing. Perhaps where you live things are different?
@@joeblack1052 I agree that vehicles, and trucks in particular, have too much useless features. Also, I hate to get a feature that is useful you often are forced to buy a package with a bunch of crap you don't want. Sorry to hear your city is overrun with lifted trucks. Most trucks around here are not lifted, but some are. Sometime I see trucks with huge lifts and tires and I think about how difficult it must be to live with.
I Had To Make This Account I used to drive a big jacked up old Blazer, wasted too much money just driving it let alone putting lift kits, bigger tires and rebuilt engine. I’m 51 and I drive a 92 Civic SI hatch to work in winter here in British Columbia, 432 thousand kms on it but still starts in -41 c weather, no block heater or nothing whereas our brand new “super duty” trucks sat with their hoods up all day. I work with a guy that spends 800$ every two weeks for his truck payments on a big F350,crazy. I have the smallest car in camp and I love it. Life’s too short to waste it on fuel just to get to work. Love the old Hondas 🚗
Half of it is probably the mainstream buyers - how many people actually use all the features of a smartphone? No one but techys, but everyone wants the latest and best. Ever notice that back in the 80's and 90's your common worker always drove the wheels off their car - maybe it had a little rust on it and 120,000 miles - now people making that same wage have a new car every 3-4 years and complain when the company car is older and has some squeaks. We've become a society full of blind consumerism and just buy the new sparkly.
Driveway I get what you are trying to relay. But purchase data doesnt back up your claim, now more than ever have people kept their car, its record high.
@@android175 You also have to remember that this is after the government destroyed the used car market, so you really can't find a good 20yr old car. I know that study says people now on average have a car for 7-8 years I would wager this is that high partly due to the influx of 6yr car loans. I was just stating that in my area my car is the oldest one in the lot and its a 2007 - some of my co workers are on their third car in 7 years.
I see the same thing yet government statistics say the average age of a car is 11 years old. Perhaps a few old cars are skewing the average. I can't find any stats for the median age.
People are coerced and tempted into it because the system pushes perpetual growth. People are also often quite content with an average mass-market car, but if you shove a questionnaire in their face, they will give you the justification for pushing industry growth. And after all, your competitor is doing the same, so you have to follow the lowest player or perish. So are the follies of capitalism warned about ages ago, but its allure is too great for the corrupt masses. And so they reap what they sow. It is just a pity for those who do not fuel that foolish system. They are suffering under it and tend to be coerced into suffering for the folly of the undeserving masses. Good people are far too valuable to turn into saintly idiots.
Many people don't realize that every single automobile is a composite of third party vendor components. No vehicle manufacturer builds all of the mechanical parts that go into a new car. Everything from headlights to brakes, alternators to turn signal indicators, windshields to interior leather seating surfaces are all purchased from auto parts suppliers, who in turn must purchase the individual components separately prior to assembling them for delivery to the auto maker. If these third party components are defective or substandard (i.e. Takata airbags), that can contribute to a brands perceived lack of reliability.
But in most cases the reason for the insufficient quality of supplier parts are the contracts by the OEMs. Namely: The OEMs push the suppliers to the limit (piece prices/tool prices) and then wonder about lower quality or issues with the part. There were many cases when OEMs have ruined suppliers with their contracts.
@@PressurenFlames The relationship is more nuanced. Many auto-manufacturer overall business margins are in the single digits. They expect the same from their suppliers. Any OEM worth their salt realizes that supplier relationships are long-term. However, it is expected that suppliers are competitive in the marketplace, as with anything else. Furthermore, OEMs often have stake in production of supplier components. For instance, they pay for fabrication and maintenance of dies, and in some cases, revise design by taking into account supplier production feasibility feedback.
@@s50201 I know, I've kept it simple on purpose.. I've worked for an OEM and two suppliers. I've seen many of the possible problems. As an system supplier you often are the loser, because you have to deliver to the OEM and manage all the problems at the sub-supplier.
Those Stainless Steel Jeweled Butt Plugs are actually really good. Great value too. For real though, you hit the nail on the head. The automotive landscape has become so cutthroat. Manufacturers are in such a different position from just 20 years ago, and it absolutely shows in the cars they produce. Just recently, I was speaking to a member of a large Japanese manufacturer (you can guess who :/) about the politics of creating "fun" cars and he said that the higher-ups are so against it that, at this point, they're considering just removing the tenured engineers that bring these projects to life, despite the fact that these are some of the best and most passionate engineers in the business. These days, as long as the global platform is worked on and the moneymakers can be pumped out by the millions, then the board sees no need to take additional risks. He then went on to tell me that I should have been born 20-30 years earlier and I would have had a lot more fun with cars. 🙃
The problem with the 98 civic is that while they are a great handling car, back then they didn't know how to make a premium quiet quality feeling small entry level car, also the advance suspension intrudes into interior space which is not what people want in an entry level car. They also have a lot of rattles and quality of the interior is not great. What replaced the civic when it got bigger and moved into another larger more expensive price bracket was the Honda Jazz/Fit which addresses most of these issues. It's got much better fuel economy but the same power as the civic, much larger inside with cheaper to make and better packaging for the suspension at the cost of a little mid corner bump stability but has less noise from the suspension into the cabin. It also feels more expensive by the use of smart design of the interior parts so there are less rattles. I'm glad Honda didn't compromise on the manual gearbox feel or the lovely engine that revs nicely. It's also much safer but has bigger a pillars so there is a compromised in visibility but because you sit higher in the seat you can see easier out of the car. So the Honda Jazz in Australia was and still is a great seller and I've driven a comparable Hyundai Getz but the Jazz is much better to drive even though the suspension is not as good as before.
I recently read that 72 month car loans were the most common but have been recently taken over by 84 month car loans. I guess that's how people can budget for a $50k vehicle.
It's an insane amount of interest to pay on a depreciating asset, and many people trade before the end of their loan and roll the balance into their next car.
By the time 72 and 84 months rolls around you're replacing timing chains and turbos and the electronic doodads are getting glitchy. Used to be you could pay the thing off in 4-5 years and have 4-5 years of payment-free driving. It's better to buy one a few years old that has depreciated 75%.
Robert Bell that’s the crazy part though the cars haven’t depreciated 75% they’ve just inflated the used market. A used 2015 F150 will still run you $30,000 if you want less than 80,000 miles.
I live in Toronto, Canada. According to Autotrader, BMW 3 series and Honda Civic are typically the 2 most searched for cars. I have a daily work commute of 2 miles per day, however I drive around 450-500 miles per week. I've done most of this driving in slow cars, namely a Toyota Corolla or Camry. There is nearly 0 passion in the Corolla or the Camry, but they've been comfortable enough and reliable, honestly I kinda wished I drove a smaller and slower car. I often hear drivers complain about 130 HP being not enough for daily driving, and honestly I'd say anything with over 100 HP and under 3000 lbs is probably enough for the average commuter. It's just that people want a car to literally do everything possible, so cars keep getting bigger, heavier, and full of stuff people think they want. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe everyone should only own slow cars or whatever, but as a daily driver vehicle, I just don't think people need as much as they get. I feel it would be a better world if people still had weekend cars. With that said, I actually daily drive Sonata Hybrid because I got it cheap, 16000 USD, new, from a dealership, and under warranty and I wanted to use less gas then said Honda Civic.
@SirVixIsVexed Agree to a point. My 97 Crown Victoria has just under 200hp. No problem power or torque if and when I need it (and it still passes the emission test here Ontario). My 03 Neon I noticed has to work quite a bit harder when I ask for the power/torque. Lighter car, 4 cyl engine but it will go if I ask it. With that being said though, I'm more comfortable in my CV. I can drive on average about 600kms all highway driving on one tank, which is rather good for a car this size. I've had cars with less than 100hp (years ago) and while they would move along rather well, you had to be cautious if you needed the hp on an incline ;)
I agree with Ho here. In normal traffic you can get by easily with 100 hp. You're gonna have less than that when you have qualms about thrashing a cold engine for the first few miles of your commute though. That said, I know a guy who has been thrashing his beater Miata cold 10 kilometres to work and back 200+ days a year for the last ten years. And done trackdays with it. And it's prefectly fine, with good compression, about 150000 kilometres on the clock. What I would highly recommend to anyone having problems to even warm up the engine on their commute is looking into cycling to work. You can get a used bike in good condition for around 100 Euros (or dollars) if you know what to look for (tons of guides online), will save money on gas, cut down wear on your car to a bare minimun and improve your health. Also bikes are easy to work on, they are like the tutorial version of working on cars lol.
@SirVixIsVexed I think 100hp is only too little on the highway. In town people are stupid and have no reactions, so you hardly get to use any power you have beyond 100. But it's nice to have a more powerful motor for cruising on the highway.
With the GRIDLOCK traffic that Toronto has these days, you would be better off driving a partially-enclosed electric scooter to work, driving it in the bicycle lanes to bypass all of the stopped traffic.
I daily a 2015 Prius C which is essentially a Yaris with a Prius hybrid drivetrain. 99hp. Never had any issues with power/acceleration. The power has to be appropriate for the vehicle in question.
I want a normal physical automatic transmission shift lever that I can shift by feel, not these stupid buttons that you have to look down to shift OR stupid physical shift lever that you have to wiggle through a maze to get into gear then hunt for the P button.
2010~2015 Mitsubishi Lancers. Shifting from P to D is a straight line. While in D, clicking the paddle shifter will over ride the D and go into manual mode. Too bad it is discontinued.
In a nutshell; 1999 - suspension was good, audio and plastics were horrible. 2019 - suspension's crap, audio systems are good, very premium high gloss plastic.
that's insightful. All new cars are trimmed so much nicer, but an old Civic (the fun generation ones) has more feel than some new BMWs. A few car companies are keeping it about feel.
Man you aren't kidding, I drove a 1994 GMC Jimmy for years and now I drive a 2002 Dodge Dakota and fuck is it a spine buster. My father always said you could feel a bottle cap on the road in a small car but every modern car rides like that now. I've ridden as a passenger in some newer cars than my dodge and it just seems that everything is super stiff now. Feels like I'm sitting on a skateboard. lol
I learned some interesting aspects to auto manufacturing in this video. My beef is the ever rising costs associated with stuff we really don’t need in a car. We don’t need the level of handling that cars have now. It’s mostly bump to bumper traffic for the majority of drivers. If people would spend their focus on actually driving their vehicle and use their seatbelt, we wouldn’t need the added costs to a car for airbags, lane monitoring, adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring. And the bling factor just runs up the price too. Why does a passenger sedan need 20” alloy wheels with ultra high performance tires to take the family on a vacation? A manufacturer could probably cut the cost of the vehicle by eliminating them by a third. Unfortunately as said in the video, the consumer wants everything even though it’s not a must have, so they can pay attention to the phone with Apple car play and set their adaptive cruise and not bother with the actual driving part.🇨🇦
Nicely done Mr Geese, I still refuse to give manufactures a pass for not actively trying to incorporate lighter materials and good driving dynamics into all of their cars. They've dropped from dozens of platforms into maybe 2 or 3 to support their entire production line. There is massive cost savings associated with that and margins for a lot of cars these days have never been higher. I want manufactures to take risks and be willing to experiment, make changes and strive to be better.
Because cars are being designed by accountants, marketing teams, and committees. They're being designed by the same people who design technology without asking the first, very basic question: "How will folks use this?" It's an empathy question that the majority of companies would rather not ask, hence missing volume knobs, HVAC controls embedded in esoteric touch panel center consoles, cars that don't have a design identity, etc.
Correct. Profit means everything. It's a lot cheaper to imtegrate everything on the main infotainment since it will enable them to just stuck in on ay other vehicle they are going to make
@@i.aan02 Well, it's also lazy right? Center consoles with buttons and dials can be made modularly as well. It's "perceived" desirability. They think that because a bunch of folks love Teslas, a company like Subaru is going to put in a large display only center console into their new Legacy. But is it usable? Is it really desirable by those who want to buy Subarus? Those who don't have a garage and park their cars outside in cold climates?
In some ways I feel design identity is actually part of the problem. You used to have many different models from a maker being interesting and different, maybe with some hints of commonality. Now "identity" is an apparent reason why all cars made by a manufacturer try to look as similar as possible, regardless of if it makes even a lick of sense or looks good.
Dude, I enjoy your videos so much! You're incredibly realistic and it brings to light the current mindset for designs/implementations of our vehicles. You discuss topics that most auto channels wont even mention, and its definitly enlightening. You make sense to the reasoning behind manufacturers current designs and it lessens my confusion/anger towards these current trends in the automotive industry. Thanks again for preaching what these manufacturers have to factor into their productio vehicles. Hopefully this video enlightens a majority of your viewers and gives some decent perspective into the realm of the automobile industry.
This is why niche cars die. Way too expensive. I doubted the Supra was going to return. Looks like I was right. The RX7 was canned for the same reason. I'll never forget a video where a GM exec was stopped at a event of some type where a regular guys shouts "Hey, you can't kill the Trans AM, we love it". So the exec walks over and says "Do you own a Trans Am?" and the guy says "Well, no". So the exec says "Now you know why we are going to cancel the car". I drive a sedan and apparently that is on the endangered list. It seats four adults has great power, looks great, has great handling and great brakes. It also has 360 degree camera, a Bose surround sound system, blind spot monitoring, heated/cooled seats, active headlights. If it had none of the toys, I would still have bought it. But because someone else has 360 degree cameras in their car, it is instantly as good as mine, and the manufacturer will tell you it is, if you'll buy it. All the toys are like a bionic suit that anybody can wear. Point to the car and rig it up and it will work. All the other quality things go out the window, but people don't notice because they have massaging seats.
Yep, there's a channel (TFLTruck I think it was?) That was part of a press ride event for the new Ram 3500 and they were able to talk to one of the lead engineers and they brought up the topic of many of their viewers complaining about the lack of a manual option, to which they said "well if all of them bought one we'd still have them" and all the lead engineer could do was agree since they were right.
@@D-dly0 I wish. It left the guy silent when he was presented with the reality. The only other clip, I am DYING to see again was there was this kid who was THE BEST at a Colin McRae rally game. They gave him an opportunity to drive a real rally car instead of a keyboard/joystick car. but gave him a low horsepower Subaru. I want to say the car only had 250 HP. Let this be a lesson to all the keyboard racers out there because the kid sucked. I don't think he made the first corner before he smashed into something and proceeded to destroy the car as he navigated the course...
I still can't find a proper replacement for my 2012 TSX. Has double wishbone suspension, NA K series engine, hard buttons for infotainment/hvac contols, a actual parking brake. And still has modern technology like cruse control, power window/locks, etc.
I drive a 2006 Scion xA. It is basically an Echo or a Yaris. I bought it because it is practical, fuel efficient, and reliable. I installed a cruise control kit and blind spot mirrors. It is a great car. It might be boring but I don't have to worry about it. I think that is all the average driver wants. It is a base model and a slush box but I can get in it and get to where I need to get to and not have to think about the car. It isn't an enthusiast car but not every car needs to be. If every car was then their wouldn't be enthusiast cars.
Exactly, you listen to some adult babies in this world and they'll say your not an enthusiast if you don't own a Camaro ZL1 and can't take your son for a drive because the car seats don't fit, and there's no money left for gas, or its "raining". This world is becoming far more polarizing which is making its way into the car community.
Depends on the person like my aunt she makes 200k a year she doesn't care about cars but she works a lot so she would like something nice to drive so she leases an Audi Yes she could go Lisa Toyota Corolla and probably save a lot of money but why would she drive a car that college students drive she's made the goal of a good job
From an enthusiast's point of view you are 100% right. I think todays cars reflect what our society has become. We're averse to any form of risk. The grade school my kids attended wouldn't allow them to run in the school yard, too dangerous. This is what we've become for the better and the worst.
It's not because we are risk-averse, it is because we are litigation averse. Any dumbass can take anyone to court for any silly reason, this wastes ton of time and money. Schools are terrified of litigation because people will sue them over everything. People still drink, smoke, skydive, drive 100mph on the highway or whatever risky activity you can think of. Companies and individuals are just absolving their liability from those doing risky things. This was a major shift that began back in the late 70s/early 80s when people began realizing that lawsuits can be a big payday.
Antoine Pageau absolutely. I hate how so many cars dashboards are centred around a screen and boast in their stupid driving assist bullshit. Blind spot monitoring is the stupidest tech ever - a light that goes on on your mirror whenever something’s in your blind spot? I have to turn my head to see that anyway, I may as well use my eyes and look all the way
@@matthews95_ : Canadian viewer. Your words are so true. The new "safety" features of cars.....all it is, is an excuse for the driver to be even more tuned out. It is funny, you can not use a cell phone, hold it in your hold while driving but you sure as hell can play with the in dash 8 inch IPODS that all manufacturers are putting in cars. The average driver is a tuned out idiot.....put the transmission in drive...oh the car will tell me if there is something beside me, as I do not want to use my grey matter to think, assess and act. If I am not paying attention it will auto stop for me........ I had to laugh the new FORD gizmo is trailer assist...for all those who drive full size pick ups and need assistance with backing up a trailer.
I get hard watching your videos. That Aztek in the thumbnail made me pass out from the lack of blood flow to my brain. The sound of the roaring 4 popper in your civic brought me back to life. Good shit, Mr. Goose.
You are absolutely correct. Two points I would, add: The more a consumer pays for a vehicle the greater the expectation. People are much less forgiving of a $40,000 vehicle than a $20,000 vehicle. Secondly, production cycles and refreshes are so quick companies do not have the time to perfect a model before the next latest and greatest model is produced.
I love watching your videos because they just make the most sense in the real world we live in. Screw everything else. Get down to the facts. And that’s exactly what you do. Bravo 👏🏼
Love the measured, well-researched, realistic, pragmatic and honest approach of this channel. Saw a car review elsewhere recently where the video ran for 15 minutes yet the actual driving experience was not discussed until the final 3 minutes.....
I will really miss the "perfect in one job" cars, such as first generation Renault Twingo (perfect city car) and the hydropneumatic Citroen line (from DS to C5). All we can do is to preserve those remaining gems.
I really hate the reduction of the driver's passive exterior view. Sure, we always enhanced this using mirrors but once you need a lot of active video you should ask whether things have gone too far. The "too far" isn't just crash safety standards but vehicle form-factors as well. I'm not sure we should have all of these pickups, vans, and SUVs on the road.
Some of the best cars ever made. And not for nothing, the fuel economy on them was fine, and I never thought they were particularly dirty by modern emission standards. So what benefit is there to a new Civic other than better safety systems and marginally better performance?
@@anthonymascolo5519 Buy an old civic and swap the suspension, seat, and engine. Have a fun daily driven reliable car with good gas mileage and low cost of ownership for a fraction of the cost of a newer one. There is a reason for the huge civic enthusiast community. I've never had one, but I understand the appeal.
I am shocked how many people can afford gloss piano black trim these days. I just get the soft plastic made from discarded tires, and saved $6 on my refurbished Ford Probe GT.
Awesome video to wake up too, Got more knowledge on the advancements car manufacturers are making to improve modern cars, Just mindblowing all the regulations and advancements have come.
It is always a treat to hear the TRUTH, not marketing, or propaganda or a sales pitch, or disinformation but the honest truth, which is what you present.
Maybe because they need to offer the most feature and value at a low price point to attract buyers which also require them to cut on a lot of the aspects of the cars which includes materials, components, etc., including design. You can add a lot of curves and/or creases if you envision the car to be sold cheap. Pressing ain't easy and it requires a press mould per vehicle (excluding those that shares components), plus they have to pay the designers a bit lower if the vehicle doesn't need a lot of design elements to be put in
@@i.aan02 i don't think that's necessarily true for styling from cost perspective. I have never heard a reviewer goes like "they go cheap on the outside". Look at the last gen civic against mazda 3 or even elantra in the same period it's just ridiculous.
@@jameswong9816 good point tho. Maybe it all falls down to preference. The prev gen civic was not well received in the US mainly because it looks different but it was well received in some markets for its "futuristic" vibe. However, what's certain is that designers and engineers envision their vehicle design to atleast become relevant for longer than expected. There are some vehicles out there that still look pretty new even tho they are already a handful of years old. It is just unfortunate for the civic to have the opposite fate.
@Themull problem with that is because when they try to be different they get criticized and unshrugged. Only few gets excited when they release something different and that translate to sales as well. It's sad to not see any manufacturer unveil something that will rise above all the bland choices we have now but there is nothing we can do. They are just answering the prayers of the majority.
God damn dude just mentioned this in a Forte review I'm working on and the Veloster, people want an Italian leather interior and 10,000 watt sound system with cherry on top 12" apple car play tablet for $20k. Good vid Doc too bad mainstreamers turn a blind eye when they hear stuff like this
Thanks for explaining the underlying reasons Toyota did the Supra the way they did. Everyone immediately spazzed during the unveiling & initial release: "It has a BMW engine, transmission, and even the BMW door chimes...! It's basically just a Z4 with a Toyota badge...!" But no one ever considered how the foundation was set up. I wasn't aware that a sports car wasn't able to be part of their current global architecture, so although it's a bit of a bummer not to have a "true" Toyota Supra successor, it makes sense why it is what it is.
It’s not just “enthusiasts”, I just want a good car that doesn’t have 19 inch wheels and a great big infotainment screen. But the millennials don’t buy those so they don’t make them. Stupid is as stupid does.
So basically people don't know what they want and car manufacturers listen to the people ? I don't think it's that simple. You're forgeting the other part of the equation ... marketing department which soul purpose is to create artificial need for people.So I don't think it's hard to make a good car I just think it's simpler and cheaper for manufacturer not to - it's all about profit margin. Point and case : charging more for SUV which you don't need but you want ( and you want it because marketing tell you it's cool not because it's actually better for you )
@michael I wasn't really trying to contradict it but it did sound a bit apologetic on manufacturers behalf I think that none of the stuff mentioned could or should limit the creativity of engineers apart from intentional desire for profit To put it simply the only reason you couldn't make a good car is greed And to extent an uneducated custumer
@@dalibormilic139 The "greed" narrative is overplayed and unintellegible. Conversely then, the best car per that argument is that if automakers sold cars that cost $100,000 to make, for a price of $5 (or just gave them away for free). However, this is not how fundamentally the economy works. Without incentive, even at the individual level, there would be no reason to produce cars (i.e. value). The desire to succeed is the fundamental reason why automakers do what they do in the first place. For instance then why would you not work for no money? Wouldn't you be the best worker if you worked 60 hours a week and received no pay? That is what the "greed" argument is saying. And all in all, modern cars are a marvel in terms of capability and price. Supply and demand is a constantly self-correcting equalizer that, for better or for worse, manifests in products that fulfill the most needs and wants for the most people. In reality, if companies did anything close to fulfill the Marxist statue of the "greedy corporation", they are promptly punished, hard, by the consumers. Look at American automakers -their car continually lagged in quality and reliability, and no one is buying them anymore.
Dalibor Milić can you clarify greed? These are public companies that have an obligation to maximize profits for their share holders. If you contribute to any retirement then you probably profit off these companies. Therefore your greed to retire with money is driving this? Or do you feel entitled to something for nothing because you exist?
Really helped me understand the reasoning behind the Supra "botchery". I feel like it is a good car but that mk4 owner in me is still nostalgic about the old way of doing things. I would have preferred a reskinned LC 500 with a bit higher price point but the funny thing is (and you mentioned it in the video) I have no intention of buying one 😂
I think when automakers make cars unreliable it’s when they start losing ground. You can have some modern aspects improve. Like blue tooth etc. But have an engine without problems without bad transmissions and electrical gremlins. I don’t need paddle shifter it infotainment anything. A nice looking and reliable and cheap to maintain car is the best.
Thank's to you, being a popular automotive channel, for touching on the reality in manufacturing that no one knows about. In real money based on raw materials a basic car today is roughly 60% cheaper than it was 40 years ago. There really is no way forward other than we all drive the same car or that future cars get much simpler.
Want to see the impact of no (or loose) emissions standards (6:00)? Visit Bangkok or Beijing or Mumbai. The combination of mostly diesels motors and motorbikes leads to a daily choking smog that is unbreathable. But, hey, freedom. :-/
Not true, but keep thinking like that -- that's exactly what the statists and ruling class want you to think. The consumer drives the market end of discussion. The people of these countries need to stop propping them up and stop allowing them to profit over clan air and water. A company cannot exist if there are no buyers.
@@Lex-Rex It is true. Look at Los Angeles before CARB and the EPA. People don't prioritize communal impact when they buy things. That's a simple fact. Free market capitalism is optimized for economic output, not overall wellbeing, and free market advocates constantly conflate high economic output with quality of life.
@@Lex-Rex My statements regarding air quality are 100% true. Clearly, you have never spent a minute in any of those cities. I know from first-hand experience, the air is unbreathable. It's not people or livestock. It's unregulated diesel and motorbike emissions. Everyone walking at ground level has a mask over their face and nose. When the only "economic" benefit of a thing is a benefit to the masses (clean air) versus personal benefit (cheap cars with low fuel costs), standard consumer-driven economics must sometimes be supplemented with regulation. It's the same theory that governs things like zoning restrictions or that encourages communities (and counties, states and countries) to build organized roads. Anarchy is not freedom; it's just anarchy.
Free to breathe pollution and suffer and die earlier. Republicans want to give us the same free to be dumb. Of course, they want to live in their gated mansions while skimming most of the profits from the filthy factory somewhere else, so their air and water are clean.
Finally a proper video with all the things that most people should know about car manufacturing,marketing,selling and owning. Keep it up in that direction!
My '09 Subaru 2.5L Impreza 5-speed manual is a pretty good car for the most part. Full time Symetrical AWD, independent front and rear suspension, not too much tech crap, still has manual hvac controls, lightweight, bullet proof reliability, fun to drive (but not fast), good safety system and crash protection. Most of all - cheap to maintain. I wouldn't trade it in for any CVT, crappy electric power steering Subaru, that's for sure. Can't stand driving those things.
@@tomwalma4762 were you driving aggressively? Driving in the higher rmp range or so? The boxer egines have been know to have those issues based on the owners driving habbis.
I had mine up to 128mph before and drive it quite hard on the highway at times going 100+ MPH for hours in the heat. For example from New York to Georgia in the summertime. A guy on a forum I know had his 5 speed 2010 2.5i hatch up to 138 mph on a track. That's ripping for a 2.5i! I have heard of that issue with the head gaskets. I do all the maintenance on time and change oil early, with full synthetic. I bought the car brand new. Might be lucky, I dunno. I don't abuse the car, but after it is warmed up, I hammer the shit out of the engine at times. :-)
I've got an 08 hatch and I've looked at upgrading casually in the past, and MAN, it seems like everything out there would put me worse off. Sure, some/most new cars have nicer interiors, and they're a little quieter, but for what I do, I'd be losing out. I need the hatch space, and I take advantage of the built in roof rack points. Used to live in Idaho (snow) and will likely return shortly. The shortlist of even possible contenders is basically the Audi Allroad ($$$), Mazda 3 hatch (almost identical to what I have now and now rack mount,), other Subarus, Golf Wagon, etc. I don't really want an SUV and I do NOT want a truck. Not that there are zero options out there, but my Impreza works great and fits my needs. No need to spend $30k for something that's basically what I have.
I don't want or expect everything... I do wish that manufacturers would include heated wipers/windshields for us arctic storm drivers... Subarus have something on the bottom of their windshields, but I've never seen any other average car offer that.
metdr0id I was just saying that the other day at work. It was -41 Celsius out so our windshield was icing up and i said Subaru was the only manufacturer that did that as far as I know. Greetings from British Columbia
lets not forget these car makers have to have a performance segment because it makes the car maker look great in the fact that people see them build a car like that it must mean their regular fleet of vehicles is great as well,hence car makers bringing back old legend series cars like the supra when it becomes available,it connects the car maker to it's fan base as well.
Yeah I just don't get the prices on some of these newer cars. Then again, I don't car about all the toys and extras. For ex, automatic parking? I don't think I would ever use it. Definitely wouldn't go looking for a car with it.
20 years ago, a Jeep Wrangler was well over $20k with all the options. Compare the cost to build the old Jeep to the new one and consider inflation. Wages have not increased with inflation. 20 years ago, a $400 car payment wasn't considered outrageous. Now consider an $800 a month car payment.
Try 60k for a loaded Rubicon. There’s really nothing else similar to a Wrangler. A body-on-frame convertible SUV that is designed for off-road first and on-road second. The JLs are so much more refined than the old Wranglers in every way, yet they are the most off-road capable a Wrangler has ever been straight from the factory. FCA did a great job and you can still get a basic one if you want for $30k.
I don't drive a zillion cars, but my experience is different. I regularly drive a 2 year old Prius C and a 1 year old Honda Fit, and I find both of them very nice cars. The Fit especially, plenty of power to merge onto a busy highway and yet almost as good gas mileage as the Prius, the interior works well and is nicely laid out, lots of room, and handles quite nicely for a normal car. I'm looking at Honda Canada right now, these start at $15,500 CAD, I couldn't have gotten a car like this for this money in 1980 or 1990. The 2006 Focus Wagon I had wasn't this good. The 1991 Trooper I had wasn't this nice, though I did feel like Indiana Jones driving it. My 1985.5 944 was more luxurious and wildy fun to drive, but not so reliable (those heater knobs, that sunroof!!)and cost $35K USD new in '85!! What am I missing? What is the car from the past that was better than this Fit for the same or less money?
Awesome perspective. Thought provoking. Funny thing is I was stopped in traffic looking around. Every car around me looked exactly the same. SUVish with the same exact styling. I want car markers to take risks. In some ways Volvo has but many don’t. At the same time too much risk leads to disasters like the PT cruiser.
Well, the definition of a good car has changed. Nowadays people don't buy a car for their everydays, or their true needs, but they buy cars for the "what if?" scenarios. Most people buy SUV because what if they have to drive on a gravel road? or what if they have to carry 7 people, or what if they need to haul a fridge, what if they will go to the beach and have to tow like a boat or something. Although the possibility of these is fairly slim for most buyers, they still get these SUVs that are really not good in anything. Simply put a car that tries to be everything will be at best acceptable in those aspect but not exceptional. A Lincoln Navigator won't be a true luxury car, it just looks bloated, and won't look elegant, as a luxury car should. It would be fast, because it's too heavy, but won't be capable off road because it is again, too heavy. On the other hand the old mini was economical and that's it. It wanted be an economical car and it was. Or the Muscle cars were powerful, but that's it, they were built to beat cars in the quarter mile, and they could do this, but only this (basically). Not to mention that in many cases women have a bigger say in car choice, and on average they are looking for the most boring aspects of a car: Ease of use/comfort/safety/big size. Basically everything that makes a car bad, from the enthusiast point of view. Also, people got scared into buying "safer" cars, which could be important, but what's the point in living if the only thing you think about is safety? You won't even have sex because you might get some disease or unplanned pregnancy, because you know, everything could fail, you don't leave the house, because someone might stab you on the street? Just say, screw it and get the car you like and fuck safety ;) Btw. they still make good cars, V8 mustangs/miata/BR-Z, these are nice driver's cars, but some enthusiast focus too much on raw HP, and that will get boring after some time, but a capable driving machine (like the miata or the BR-Z) will be satisfying every time. And heck, how often do you REALLY have to drive with more than 1 person and carry around fridges? If it is less then 10%, just tell the person to go fuck themselves and that's it :D Buy the car you need, not that other expect you to have (unless you have a family, and don't think a 10+ year or whatever is a good enough family car)
Um...why do we still have the dealership sales model forced upon us by legal requirement? It's about as relevant as blood lettings. Get rid of that monstrosity and perhaps we can begin to approach having the types of cars that the populace actually calls for.
Awesome post, Matt! Post of the Day! Star on paper, paper up on fridge!!! Not kidding, been saying the same for years. They shove it down our throats (instituted by gov't edict of all places!) and told we are to like it. No where else in America, save the mandated "healthcare" debacle we get shoved at us, are we given zero choice - NO WHERE! PS Btw, reason #1 that they set out to destroy Elon Musk from the get go, to your point exactly - no need for the dealership game. None whatsoever. Talk about upsetting the old boy's apple cart. Uh-huh. Again, good post.
Direct your anger at dealerships, themselves, not the legal system. The "legal requirements" are the result, not the cause. Franchise laws (of which the dealership sales model is an example) are all state level, not federal statutes. And they come about because dealerships, themselves, and their trade associations are powerful local and statewide political actors. They argue that franchise exclusivity promotes local control versus the actions of faceless national corporations and promotes responses more quickly and efficiently to local consumer preferences and complaints. You may well feel you'd have more "choice" if manufacturers were in charge but there is a reasonable argument to the contrary. In any case the dealers' arguments may well be horse pucky but to a state legislator with one or more major dealerships in his/her district it can be extremely persuasive.
@@jedclampett7705 Boy, I wish. :) Nope. As you can see, the last name has an "s" on the end. And by the way, I'm not necessarily opposed to manufacturer to consumer direct sales bypassing or eliminating the dealership model. I'd simply point out that it's not a simple issue but one with some reasonable arguments on each side. And I'm amused by those (often conservatives) who complain about the decline of "local autonomy" in business and celebrate "free enterprise" and competitive markets while supporting the takeover of nationwide automotive sales by a few giant corporations. At the present time Tesla continues a state by state fight to sell vehicles directly to consumers. According to Wikipedia 11 states still prohibit direct sales to consumers. Another 10 states allow it and eight states have come to some sort of compromise that allows a few "corporate" stores to operate in the state. The sands are shifting on the issue but I have a feeling that many consumers who wish fervently for local dealerships to disappear may be sorry for what they wished for.
This is the prelude of getting into the automotive religion! Going right to the essence of things. No other youtuber or car journalist goes so deep down and close to the point of what actually the meaning is. I ask my self the same things and i m a car salesman and a mechanic and a freak who has only one thing in mind! The car! Saying all these things and analyzing the Situation is something much more useful for the buyer than pure numbers of products who doesn't actually are helpful and important. Down to the bone is this introduction and everybody should see it and try to unterstand it, simple auto fans, enthusiasts and even real Professionals. If you ever come to Germany i d like to have a beer with you and get the chance to talk about ..religion. Cheers dude and stay like that !
If you go on holiday in Japan, they are very popular. My neighbour (we are outside of Japan) bought one after a trip rthere, those things are insane. Funniest feature, her toilet is opening and pre-warming when she enters the room.
Manufs need to be forced to open those ecus with publicly available documentation. There is absolutely no need for a scan tool to cost $5000. Did you know a dealer is required to reflash your car if you bring it to them, most times they dont tell you. There needs to be a way for the consumer to read all the computer data, and all the history of a cars software.
The customer has changed in the last 10 years or so. Instead of asking questions about the reliability, handling, materials, etc...people are concerned about Bluetooth/hotspot, posting on Facebook, Yelp, handsfree texting, etc. Few cars are made for the pleasure of driving as the #1 thing the car was built to do. Toyota made a huge mistake using BMW for the Supra. The mark 4 Supra was a 100% Toyota product and made possible because variants the drivetrain and suspension were in other Toyota/Lexus models cutting R&D overhead in the cost per unit. They should have done the same this time and kept Supra 100% Toyota. Instead they got lazy and outsourced.
I see it in another light. There are some good arguments made on the video about the toyota-bmw collaboration that I agree with. In fact, lets take a look at the Lexus LFA. It was a very high performing car, amazingly well built, excelent materials. Didn't sell, because it was too exclusive and way too expensive compared to the other supercars. But, except from the engine, toyota fully developed the whole car. So we can say that, due to Toyota's absolute Lean mentality, it would be hard to see a another sports-car attempt from them.
Customers are of course a huge part of the problem :( watching car adverts is mostly just a series of features I really don't care about. e.g. on a cheap runabout it'll be talking about the '16" alloy wheels, park assist, keyless entry" - it's a small car, gains nothing from the alloys (more often than not compromises the ride and handling to try to look shiny), is easy to park anyway and lets face it, cheap keyless entry is just making your car easier to nick. No mention of anything about the actual car being in any way not terrible.
> Few cars are made for the pleasure of driving as the #1 thing the car was built to do. Am I the only one who just wants my goddamned car to get me where I am going? I don't want it to give me "pleasure" ffs... if I want "pleasure" I'll find someone to give me a hand job.... my days of looking at vehicles as a source of fun ended when I grew the fuck up, stopped being a boy, and my vehicles stopped having a "Fischer Price" label on it.
@@xs10z If you want a vehicle that just gets you where you want to go a 1990s Toyota is what you want. And I find it very ironic you claim to be grown up yet don't understand the basic concept that other people may have different interests than you do.
This is why Toyota and BMW went together on the new Z4 and Supra. BMW did not want to bare the cost alone because Z4 sales have never been good and the Supra is a niche product itself. The Supra might not exactly be the GTR fighter we wanted but Toyota was able to give use a fast, affordable, standout design and modern sports car for the masses. At 49k it’s cheaper then the previous MK4. We should praise that. We the people don’t care about what it cost them we want what we want we should be more understanding that these car companies are a business before anything they have to do what keeps money in their pocket and what makes them money.
I will be happier with the supra if they offer it with a manual trans as strong or stronger than the old T56. The issue is that its competing (sort of) with the GT350 and Camaro 1LE. Dollar for dollar I'd take the Shelby or Camaro any day.
@Micheal Stillabower How exactly is the performance disappointing for the price? The fact that it's lighter, stiffer, more rigid yet has a wider stance than the LFA without using reinforced carbon fiber, has a shorter wheelbase and a lower center of gravity than the GT86, has 255/35/ZR19 on the front and 275/35/ZR19 on the rear (hence - RWD), a perfect 50:50 power-to-weight distribution ratio, etc.. yup, it's worth it to me. Let alone that it costs right about comparably to the old car while being on-par with the competition.
@@behindthen0thing For one, dual-clutch transmissions can feel a bit clumsy at lower speed limits and throttle response. Secondly, I personally don't think it needs a manual, since I'm sure any car can be fun regardless of gearbox. What matters most is engine and handling, paired with all of the mechanical and structural engineering to truly make a car engaging, especially with the auto's aggressive gearing needed.. A car with a solid performing engine and a solid chassis, and again, all of the mechanical and structural engineering to truly make a car engaging can be a fun car with or without a manual. For example, that if you were offered a new Z06 Corvette with 600+ HP but it only comes in the 8 speed auto, you wouldn't get any pleasure out of driving that car because of the automatic? What about the LFA and R35 GT-R? And what about a modern Ferrari like a Portofino, 488, GTC4Lusso? They don't offer a manual transmission but a semi automatic, the paddle shifters used in a F1 formula race car. Are those not an enthusiasts' car just because they don't offer a stick? That's really the logic I don't get with the car community.
@Micheal Stillabower 1) Because speed isn't everything, as the mechanical engineering paired with the easy-to-live with nature that supercars lack, are the best of both worlds in a sports car that's the new Supra. Hence a 4.1 second sprint to 60 is impressive especially since it weighs under 3400 lbs. (MPG hasn't yet been finalized so can't tell) 2) Between the $49K-$55K range, which is a bargain to me and a lot less expensive than I thought. 3) The fact that it's lighter, stiffer, more rigid yet has a wider stance than the LFA without using reinforced carbon fiber, has a shorter wheelbase and a lower center of gravity than the GT86 while also doubling its rigidity, has 255/35/ZR19 on the front and 275/35/ZR19 on the rear (hence - RWD), a perfect 50:50 power-to-weight distribution ratio, etc.. it will be a helluva capable on a track, a curvy back road, etc.
I'll put in two cents: My everyday driver is a 1995 Accord. I bought it specifically so I could have a decent car to drive around, with no fuss. It has everything I want for a daily: power windows, locks, cruise control, AC. This car cost the equivalent of 28k in 95 though. The current customer base would never spend that kind of money if it didn't have all kinds of other stuff like multiple airbags, Bluetooth(which I added to mine), more powerful engine, etc. It speaks to economic conditioning for consumers more than anything. I see it every day working as an auto tech. People complain about the dumbest things, whereas twenty or thirty years ago, people were happy just to have a good car that didn't break down on them like in the 60s and 70s. The point is, with the requirements in safety and emissions it has made cars far more expensive than they should be, even with inflation, so people expect a lot more for their money because of perceived value.
You are so on the money with this video. More people need to watch this. It'll make them understand why stuff is so stupid expensive today. Honestly, I think some of the best "point a to point b" cars where the mid 90's Japanese cars, I just wish they were as safe as the cars today, build wise. I also think that most people don't even know what the hell they want and then the mfgs go crazy with adding all this junk (like you mentioned). I wish we could still get simple stuff. You see it less and less and I feel like the ads and media influence most people into believing that this is what they want. Great video Mark. The only thing that I would have done differently was to drive around with more snow on the hood of your car.
Hate them as much as you want, but am glad Tesla came along to create a wave of disruption because the truth is other manufacturers are already reacting to their cars. Competition is always nice.
@@chrismemphis8062 Not true. They got a loan, not a grant. And already paid every penny of it. Look at GM though. Taking government money and still making crappy cars.
@@chrismemphis8062 You confuse Tesla and electric cars in general. The government is subsidizing all electric cars - equally. Just like any new industry with potential to enhance economy / people's quality of life.
Been really depressed about the 86 and Supra not being made with a Toyota Engine like the old days. But you are absolutely right. We as customers have to have a realistic view of these cars and how much it takes to get to us.
Few years ago I read a book(sorry I forget the titel) that explained in some pretty good detail, the process car manfactures go through from ideal to conception. The testing, reasearch, etc... Pretty interesting. It's also sad when they engineers put so much effort into something and the top guys/suits/accounts eliminate some stuff to go cheaper to save a few dollars and end up making the product much worse than it should be.
I so surprised when I drove a mint 1989 Camry V6, it was smooth, peppy, no torque steer (had equal length drive shafts), visibility was amazing, steering feedback was better than most modern cars and handling was actually decent for a commuter sedan. It was so nice, that I went looking for an ES250 (Lexus version).
Cars are too expensive, people just don't have enough money is what I figure. Have you seen the recent study that says most Americans are 3 months behind on their auto payments
What's happening with car loans is the exact same thing that happened ten years ago with mortgages. Lenders got greedy and started giving out loans to anybody who had a pulse, regardless of how capable they were of paying it back. People only looked at the payment, not the total or the interest, so they got these insanely long loans to buy stuff they can't afford. It's a bubble. And it'll pop. Likely soon.
I can really relate to the suspension example you used. I had a 2000 civic coupe that handled miles better than the 2004 accord Sedan I had. Was shocked how different it was even after accounting for the extra weight.
What other cars under the stratospheric price range, might not be platform engineered? I can't really think of any....but there must be some out there.
Well, like any Ferrari. Every other supercar/exclusive car (McLaren, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, RR) it's made for a reason, whether it's performance (sheer hp or handling) or luxury/styling/size/etc, and usually, in no limited number production. Each Ferrari instead is limited production, performance is never the highest ranking (easily a mcLaren or even a well tuned subaru wrx or a bmw m5 can reach its levels), styling is very personal and extreme, they're not practical car at all, they're absolutely delicate and not reliable, very expensive to mantain, the ride is usally hard and not silent nor comfortable. And yet, that's what you want from a Ferrari...
Very well-stated and thought out analysis Finding a car with soul is getting harder and harder. Having fun with my Celica gts with the feisty four popper 2zz. But it is 20 years old and won't be hear much longer.
Once automakers are able to get rid of the Combustion engine things will get a lot easier for manufacturers. The C.E. is simple in nature, but now trying to understand a modern motor with variable valve timing, port and direct injection, variable compression ratios... all of this makes for an impossibly complex mess that has little hope for manufacturers to be able to fix down the road. Batteries and electric motors are stone age in complexity compared to a modern ICE. I may be wrong but that's how I see it. VW is doubling down on EV and trying to get rid of ICE asap...I think it's smart but a big risk at the same time. Time will tell. Thanks geese.
electric cars lose 50% of their effeciency in the cold. as much as its nice to to have no emissions, electric cars arent actually that green. and the government trying to force them on us by making it impossible to design an ICE solution is whats wrong with the government right now.
PHGamer battery tech is the major factor for electric cars. From cost to range it’s the major hurdle that will keep them our of regular hands until dealt with. Apparently there is new battery tech being created in japan. Double carbon I believe. That will combine the pros of capacitors with quick recharge with little loss over time with energy density of batteries. Once mass produced electrics will take over
So many good things about this video: 1) The car in the thumbnail actually is pretty reliable, I see so many on the road still, and most have no body damage
The last part about companies "watering down" the product is very true in the case of GM. Back in the nineties they developed the Pontiac Transport concept car. It was good looking and very attractive for a minivan. When they put it into production it came out looking like a Dust Buster and handling like an overloaded garbage truck.
youre so right! i never before bought a car that i didnt expect to replace the sound sys, suspension, power mods. cars now a days are so much and expensive and still isnt what some of us want. i dont care about the info system, the phone dies everything better....
![Would You Fall for It? [ST08]](/img/n.gif)
"Customers want everything for nothing" is my experience in software developement summed up.
Yeah, but when you deliver as much of everything as you can, it turns out they wanted half of it to work totally differently and actually didn't care about the other half of it at all.
@@manniefresh730 Exactly what I was thinking! The patient, the doctor, the hospital, the insurance company, all want something different, and it better be the best!
@@asharak84 It's more like 20%, but the thing is, every customer wants a slightly different 20% of the feature set of a program, so the developers throw up their hands, include EVERYTHING, the software is a buggy, bloated mess, nobody likes it, but they have to use it anyway because it was the only way to give everyone what they wanted.
So I get dozens of things running in the background i never asked for and i second education to figure out how to turn it off or in!
as a comp sci student, I can understand this. but people dont think they are getting a tangible item when it comes to software, they see it as something that was already made and does not require raw materials to make, so it should be free. they dont see how much work went into developing said software
I had a 99 Civic in High School. Car saved my life. I didn't crash it or anything, but driving it reminded me how enjoyable life can be, and to keep moving forward. 6th generation Civics remain my favorite car of all time.
Hey, I work for a manufacturer in design engineering. Thanks for making this video. I feel like there's often a disconnect between what enthusiasts think car manufacturers should do, and what they CAN do while still continuing to exist (make money).
John Hoo I’ll give you a tip to get many people in my generation (gen z) to buy cars. Build cars with souls again. People who truly love cars, want something that looks cool. (making cars all look like toyota camries doesn’t look cool. Think classic designs). More metal, less plastic. Nobody wants to drive around in a hot wheel. Just stop listening to the government regulations, they will cause your companies to fail. Your corporations are immensly powerful. If you decided to simply stop respecting the imagined authority of the government that make your jobs harder, younger people would buy cars again. If you continue down the path you’re going down, people my age will simply continue to buy classic cars off of craislist instead of new cars tgat no longer inspire us.
@@DeadlycheesePeople I also have an older 86 f150, but new cars today are so much better then old ones in almost every aspect, sure style from the 50's and 60's were fantastic, but they still exist so enjoy them. I want fuel economy, and less damaging materials in my world. Secondly the part about the believed authority is where you lost me, without it you would live in a place like somalia, which also still exists so maybe a move would give you some fresh air away from government control.
@@robmd3851 or might i suggest Venezuela? I hear it's pretty free down there😂😂
@@DeadlycheesePeople "Just stop listening to the government regulations" Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in America
I always lol @ people who complain about the lack of 1000+ bhp engines on roadcars. Ever heard of wheelspin? lmfao.
If people bought cars based on need the F-150 wouldn’t be the best selling vehicle in the states.
I bet over half of the buyers don’t do anything that requires a truck or SUV, and i often see them on the road, not hauling anything, nothing in the bed, only the driver in the cab. Like why? In own a truck because I have to for work, but i rather have a small car. Why?
-Cheaper to buy
-cheaper tires
-less cylinders
-easier to park
-better mpg
-better handling
Long story short, people are stupid, and their choices are not always whats best for them.
People often need a truck a couple times a month or even less but can only afford/garage 1 vehicle (or wife has car for car things/husband has truck for occasional truck things). If they buy a small car they are going to have to rent a truck frequently or use their cars in ways they shouldn't. Also, it is nice to have a truck in the extended family to handle everyone's needs. So, you may see them drive that truck without something in the bed but they do use it. They may even have a car but it is too nice or specialized to drive everyday or to the supermarket. So I reject your argument. People mainly buy trucks for the utility.
@@joeblack1052 You can claim that to be the case, but I already explained to you that it isn't.
There may be some percentage that just buy a truck ONLY because they are posers, but most people buy for the utility.
@@joeblack1052 Well Joe, not sure what to tell you. Maybe where you live is different then where I have spent most of my life (Kentucky and southern Indiana). Around here, there's a lot of people that are making use of their trucks for things other than posing. Perhaps where you live things are different?
@@joeblack1052 I agree that vehicles, and trucks in particular, have too much useless features. Also, I hate to get a feature that is useful you often are forced to buy a package with a bunch of crap you don't want. Sorry to hear your city is overrun with lifted trucks. Most trucks around here are not lifted, but some are. Sometime I see trucks with huge lifts and tires and I think about how difficult it must be to live with.
I Had To Make This Account I used to drive a big jacked up old Blazer, wasted too much money just driving it let alone putting lift kits, bigger tires and rebuilt engine. I’m 51 and I drive a 92 Civic SI hatch to work in winter here in British Columbia, 432 thousand kms on it but still starts in -41 c weather, no block heater or nothing whereas our brand new “super duty” trucks sat with their hoods up all day. I work with a guy that spends 800$ every two weeks for his truck payments on a big F350,crazy. I have the smallest car in camp and I love it. Life’s too short to waste it on fuel just to get to work. Love the old Hondas 🚗
“I need it to be perfect, for free, and I need it yesterday!”
Goes without saying sir, we'll actually have it parked in your garage by last week.
@@cluelessblamer518 hagahahgaa
Half of it is probably the mainstream buyers - how many people actually use all the features of a smartphone? No one but techys, but everyone wants the latest and best. Ever notice that back in the 80's and 90's your common worker always drove the wheels off their car - maybe it had a little rust on it and 120,000 miles - now people making that same wage have a new car every 3-4 years and complain when the company car is older and has some squeaks. We've become a society full of blind consumerism and just buy the new sparkly.
Damn, couldn't agree more!
Driveway I get what you are trying to relay. But purchase data doesnt back up your claim, now more than ever have people kept their car, its record high.
@@android175 You also have to remember that this is after the government destroyed the used car market, so you really can't find a good 20yr old car. I know that study says people now on average have a car for 7-8 years I would wager this is that high partly due to the influx of 6yr car loans. I was just stating that in my area my car is the oldest one in the lot and its a 2007 - some of my co workers are on their third car in 7 years.
I see the same thing yet government statistics say the average age of a car is 11 years old. Perhaps a few old cars are skewing the average. I can't find any stats for the median age.
People are coerced and tempted into it because the system pushes perpetual growth. People are also often quite content with an average mass-market car, but if you shove a questionnaire in their face, they will give you the justification for pushing industry growth. And after all, your competitor is doing the same, so you have to follow the lowest player or perish. So are the follies of capitalism warned about ages ago, but its allure is too great for the corrupt masses. And so they reap what they sow. It is just a pity for those who do not fuel that foolish system. They are suffering under it and tend to be coerced into suffering for the folly of the undeserving masses.
Good people are far too valuable to turn into saintly idiots.
Many people don't realize that every single automobile is a composite of third party vendor components. No vehicle manufacturer builds all of the mechanical parts that go into a new car. Everything from headlights to brakes, alternators to turn signal indicators, windshields to interior leather seating surfaces are all purchased from auto parts suppliers, who in turn must purchase the individual components separately prior to assembling them for delivery to the auto maker. If these third party components are defective or substandard (i.e. Takata airbags), that can contribute to a brands perceived lack of reliability.
When shopping for reliability it becomes choosing the brand of car that has the background of choosing the best parts.
That's why manufacturers have teams (design, engineering, purchasing, support, quality, standards, and contracts to enforce and try to control it.
But in most cases the reason for the insufficient quality of supplier parts are the contracts by the OEMs. Namely: The OEMs push the suppliers to the limit (piece prices/tool prices) and then wonder about lower quality or issues with the part. There were many cases when OEMs have ruined suppliers with their contracts.
@@PressurenFlames The relationship is more nuanced. Many auto-manufacturer overall business margins are in the single digits. They expect the same from their suppliers. Any OEM worth their salt realizes that supplier relationships are long-term. However, it is expected that suppliers are competitive in the marketplace, as with anything else.
Furthermore, OEMs often have stake in production of supplier components. For instance, they pay for fabrication and maintenance of dies, and in some cases, revise design by taking into account supplier production feasibility feedback.
@@s50201 I know, I've kept it simple on purpose.. I've worked for an OEM and two suppliers. I've seen many of the possible problems. As an system supplier you often are the loser, because you have to deliver to the OEM and manage all the problems at the sub-supplier.
Those Stainless Steel Jeweled Butt Plugs are actually really good. Great value too.
For real though, you hit the nail on the head. The automotive landscape has become so cutthroat. Manufacturers are in such a different position from just 20 years ago, and it absolutely shows in the cars they produce. Just recently, I was speaking to a member of a large Japanese manufacturer (you can guess who :/) about the politics of creating "fun" cars and he said that the higher-ups are so against it that, at this point, they're considering just removing the tenured engineers that bring these projects to life, despite the fact that these are some of the best and most passionate engineers in the business. These days, as long as the global platform is worked on and the moneymakers can be pumped out by the millions, then the board sees no need to take additional risks.
He then went on to tell me that I should have been born 20-30 years earlier and I would have had a lot more fun with cars. 🙃
Albon 3 years ago got no comments but now verified wow
I need a review of that 98 Honda Civic. Hector's dream car.
With a Spoon engine
My first car. Was cool until it was stolen twice...
The problem with the 98 civic is that while they are a great handling car, back then they didn't know how to make a premium quiet quality feeling small entry level car, also the advance suspension intrudes into interior space which is not what people want in an entry level car. They also have a lot of rattles and quality of the interior is not great. What replaced the civic when it got bigger and moved into another larger more expensive price bracket was the Honda Jazz/Fit which addresses most of these issues. It's got much better fuel economy but the same power as the civic, much larger inside with cheaper to make and better packaging for the suspension at the cost of a little mid corner bump stability but has less noise from the suspension into the cabin. It also feels more expensive by the use of smart design of the interior parts so there are less rattles. I'm glad Honda didn't compromise on the manual gearbox feel or the lovely engine that revs nicely. It's also much safer but has bigger a pillars so there is a compromised in visibility but because you sit higher in the seat you can see easier out of the car. So the Honda Jazz in Australia was and still is a great seller and I've driven a comparable Hyundai Getz but the Jazz is much better to drive even though the suspension is not as good as before.
It should be noted that per savagegeese's facebook page, I meant Edgar, not Hector. Fast & Furious references be damned!
Doug score
I recently read that 72 month car loans were the most common but have been recently taken over by 84 month car loans. I guess that's how people can budget for a $50k vehicle.
As the prices go up our contracts take longer to pay off affordably.
It's an insane amount of interest to pay on a depreciating asset, and many people trade before the end of their loan and roll the balance into their next car.
@@questioner1596 perpetual debt.
By the time 72 and 84 months rolls around you're replacing timing chains and turbos and the electronic doodads are getting glitchy. Used to be you could pay the thing off in 4-5 years and have 4-5 years of payment-free driving. It's better to buy one a few years old that has depreciated 75%.
Robert Bell that’s the crazy part though the cars haven’t depreciated 75% they’ve just inflated the used market. A used 2015 F150 will still run you $30,000 if you want less than 80,000 miles.
I live in Toronto, Canada. According to Autotrader, BMW 3 series and Honda Civic are typically the 2 most searched for cars. I have a daily work commute of 2 miles per day, however I drive around 450-500 miles per week. I've done most of this driving in slow cars, namely a Toyota Corolla or Camry. There is nearly 0 passion in the Corolla or the Camry, but they've been comfortable enough and reliable, honestly I kinda wished I drove a smaller and slower car. I often hear drivers complain about 130 HP being not enough for daily driving, and honestly I'd say anything with over 100 HP and under 3000 lbs is probably enough for the average commuter. It's just that people want a car to literally do everything possible, so cars keep getting bigger, heavier, and full of stuff people think they want. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe everyone should only own slow cars or whatever, but as a daily driver vehicle, I just don't think people need as much as they get. I feel it would be a better world if people still had weekend cars.
With that said, I actually daily drive Sonata Hybrid because I got it cheap, 16000 USD, new, from a dealership, and under warranty and I wanted to use less gas then said Honda Civic.
@SirVixIsVexed Agree to a point. My 97 Crown Victoria has just under 200hp. No problem power or torque if and when I need it (and it still passes the emission test here Ontario). My 03 Neon I noticed has to work quite a bit harder when I ask for the power/torque. Lighter car, 4 cyl engine but it will go if I ask it. With that being said though, I'm more comfortable in my CV. I can drive on average about 600kms all highway driving on one tank, which is rather good for a car this size. I've had cars with less than 100hp (years ago) and while they would move along rather well, you had to be cautious if you needed the hp on an incline ;)
I agree with Ho here. In normal traffic you can get by easily with 100 hp. You're gonna have less than that when you have qualms about thrashing a cold engine for the first few miles of your commute though. That said, I know a guy who has been thrashing his beater Miata cold 10 kilometres to work and back 200+ days a year for the last ten years. And done trackdays with it. And it's prefectly fine, with good compression, about 150000 kilometres on the clock.
What I would highly recommend to anyone having problems to even warm up the engine on their commute is looking into cycling to work. You can get a used bike in good condition for around 100 Euros (or dollars) if you know what to look for (tons of guides online), will save money on gas, cut down wear on your car to a bare minimun and improve your health. Also bikes are easy to work on, they are like the tutorial version of working on cars lol.
@SirVixIsVexed I think 100hp is only too little on the highway. In town people are stupid and have no reactions, so you hardly get to use any power you have beyond 100. But it's nice to have a more powerful motor for cruising on the highway.
With the GRIDLOCK traffic that Toronto has these days, you would be better off driving a partially-enclosed electric scooter to work, driving it in the bicycle lanes to bypass all of the stopped traffic.
I daily a 2015 Prius C which is essentially a Yaris with a Prius hybrid drivetrain. 99hp. Never had any issues with power/acceleration. The power has to be appropriate for the vehicle in question.
I want a normal physical automatic transmission shift lever that I can shift by feel, not these stupid buttons that you have to look down to shift OR stupid physical shift lever that you have to wiggle through a maze to get into gear then hunt for the P button.
Facts. Shits getting annoying every dam car the same shit.
Who care it's an automatic. You put it in D one time and you are done. Want to shift by feel....get a gear box
@@dlamardeyoutoube 👏
2010~2015 Mitsubishi Lancers. Shifting from P to D is a straight line.
While in D, clicking the paddle shifter will over ride the D and go into manual mode.
Too bad it is discontinued.
this is partly because electric cars that are electric do that and other manufacturers are just copying with there gas cars
In a nutshell; 1999 - suspension was good, audio and plastics were horrible. 2019 - suspension's crap, audio systems are good, very premium high gloss plastic.
that's insightful. All new cars are trimmed so much nicer, but an old Civic (the fun generation ones) has more feel than some new BMWs. A few car companies are keeping it about feel.
1999- engines parts made of metal 2019- engines are half plastic
I prefer 90s cars tbh. They ride alot smoother.
Man you aren't kidding, I drove a 1994 GMC Jimmy for years and now I drive a 2002 Dodge Dakota and fuck is it a spine buster. My father always said you could feel a bottle cap on the road in a small car but every modern car rides like that now. I've ridden as a passenger in some newer cars than my dodge and it just seems that everything is super stiff now. Feels like I'm sitting on a skateboard. lol
@@TranscendentalAirwaves it's the huge wheels with super low profile tires that ruins a comfortable/smoth ride.
This is just so true
The Fine Print Series is so good
No one seems to be able to make a good car commercial either, except Mahk
Mark Malinowski except chevy 😂😂😂😂 lord knows there the most reliable!
@@slimyfeet8696 JAYDEEPOWERANDASSOCIATES, HERPADERPDERPMALERP
JD POWAH
I learned some interesting aspects to auto manufacturing in this video. My beef is the ever rising costs associated with stuff we really don’t need in a car. We don’t need the level of handling that cars have now. It’s mostly bump to bumper traffic for the majority of drivers. If people would spend their focus on actually driving their vehicle and use their seatbelt, we wouldn’t need the added costs to a car for airbags, lane monitoring, adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring. And the bling factor just runs up the price too. Why does a passenger sedan need 20” alloy wheels with ultra high performance tires to take the family on a vacation? A manufacturer could probably cut the cost of the vehicle by eliminating them by a third. Unfortunately as said in the video, the consumer wants everything even though it’s not a must have, so they can pay attention to the phone with Apple car play and set their adaptive cruise and not bother with the actual driving part.🇨🇦
Nicely done Mr Geese, I still refuse to give manufactures a pass for not actively trying to incorporate lighter materials and good driving dynamics
into all of their cars. They've dropped from dozens of platforms into maybe 2 or 3 to support their entire production line. There is massive cost savings
associated with that and margins for a lot of cars these days have never been higher.
I want manufactures to take risks and be willing to experiment, make changes and strive to be better.
Because cars are being designed by accountants, marketing teams, and committees. They're being designed by the same people who design technology without asking the first, very basic question: "How will folks use this?" It's an empathy question that the majority of companies would rather not ask, hence missing volume knobs, HVAC controls embedded in esoteric touch panel center consoles, cars that don't have a design identity, etc.
Correct. Profit means everything. It's a lot cheaper to imtegrate everything on the main infotainment since it will enable them to just stuck in on ay other vehicle they are going to make
@@i.aan02 Well, it's also lazy right? Center consoles with buttons and dials can be made modularly as well. It's "perceived" desirability. They think that because a bunch of folks love Teslas, a company like Subaru is going to put in a large display only center console into their new Legacy. But is it usable? Is it really desirable by those who want to buy Subarus? Those who don't have a garage and park their cars outside in cold climates?
Large corporate grills that you can cook a family steak dinner on.
Lol esoteric touch panel center console
In some ways I feel design identity is actually part of the problem. You used to have many different models from a maker being interesting and different, maybe with some hints of commonality. Now "identity" is an apparent reason why all cars made by a manufacturer try to look as similar as possible, regardless of if it makes even a lick of sense or looks good.
Dude, I enjoy your videos so much! You're incredibly realistic and it brings to light the current mindset for designs/implementations of our vehicles. You discuss topics that most auto channels wont even mention, and its definitly enlightening. You make sense to the reasoning behind manufacturers current designs and it lessens my confusion/anger towards these current trends in the automotive industry.
Thanks again for preaching what these manufacturers have to factor into their productio vehicles. Hopefully this video enlightens a majority of your viewers and gives some decent perspective into the realm of the automobile industry.
This is why niche cars die. Way too expensive. I doubted the Supra was going to return. Looks like I was right. The RX7 was canned for the same reason. I'll never forget a video where a GM exec was stopped at a event of some type where a regular guys shouts "Hey, you can't kill the Trans AM, we love it". So the exec walks over and says "Do you own a Trans Am?" and the guy says "Well, no". So the exec says "Now you know why we are going to cancel the car".
I drive a sedan and apparently that is on the endangered list. It seats four adults has great power, looks great, has great handling and great brakes. It also has 360 degree camera, a Bose surround sound system, blind spot monitoring, heated/cooled seats, active headlights. If it had none of the toys, I would still have bought it. But because someone else has 360 degree cameras in their car, it is instantly as good as mine, and the manufacturer will tell you it is, if you'll buy it.
All the toys are like a bionic suit that anybody can wear. Point to the car and rig it up and it will work. All the other quality things go out the window, but people don't notice because they have massaging seats.
I'm struggling to find that clip, any leads?
The Supra is returning sorta yes it is a BMW Z4 in Supra drag but at least it’s back.
Yep, there's a channel (TFLTruck I think it was?) That was part of a press ride event for the new Ram 3500 and they were able to talk to one of the lead engineers and they brought up the topic of many of their viewers complaining about the lack of a manual option, to which they said "well if all of them bought one we'd still have them" and all the lead engineer could do was agree since they were right.
@@D-dly0 I wish. It left the guy silent when he was presented with the reality. The only other clip, I am DYING to see again was there was this kid who was THE BEST at a Colin McRae rally game. They gave him an opportunity to drive a real rally car instead of a keyboard/joystick car. but gave him a low horsepower Subaru. I want to say the car only had 250 HP. Let this be a lesson to all the keyboard racers out there because the kid sucked. I don't think he made the first corner before he smashed into something and proceeded to destroy the car as he navigated the course...
This.
Vote with your wallet people, what you buy is what the manufacturer will keep making.
I like the fine print series. Alot.
"A lot".
I still can't find a proper replacement for my 2012 TSX. Has double wishbone suspension, NA K series engine, hard buttons for infotainment/hvac contols, a actual parking brake. And still has modern technology like cruse control, power window/locks, etc.
ILX
@@MaxBorker don't care for it.
Running Coyote I don’t blame you lol
Do what I do: Keep buying USED models of what you prefer, and enjoy.
why do you need a replacement?
I drive a 2006 Scion xA. It is basically an Echo or a Yaris. I bought it because it is practical, fuel efficient, and reliable. I installed a cruise control kit and blind spot mirrors. It is a great car. It might be boring but I don't have to worry about it. I think that is all the average driver wants. It is a base model and a slush box but I can get in it and get to where I need to get to and not have to think about the car. It isn't an enthusiast car but not every car needs to be. If every car was then their wouldn't be enthusiast cars.
Kohl Martin I just bought a new Yaris hatch yesterday. Simple, reliable, efficient, and relatively safe.
Exactly, you listen to some adult babies in this world and they'll say your not an enthusiast if you don't own a Camaro ZL1 and can't take your son for a drive because the car seats don't fit, and there's no money left for gas, or its "raining". This world is becoming far more polarizing which is making its way into the car community.
Depends on the person like my aunt she makes 200k a year she doesn't care about cars but she works a lot so she would like something nice to drive so she leases an Audi Yes she could go Lisa Toyota Corolla and probably save a lot of money but why would she drive a car that college students drive she's made the goal of a good job
1:27
Butt Pluggs ??
The car will drive much better with Spark Pluggs.
th-cam.com/video/cG6VEW1ZVgM/w-d-xo.html
Lamborghini Urus looks like the Aztec
I see it lol
The first Lambo to use an Audi engine.
I watched Grand Tour and that lambo suv is not pretty.
🤔🤭😂😂
No
From an enthusiast's point of view you are 100% right. I think todays cars reflect what our society has become. We're averse to any form of risk. The grade school my kids attended wouldn't allow them to run in the school yard, too dangerous. This is what we've become for the better and the worst.
I remember a couple of years ago, when I was in grade 5, we sometimes had a "walk and talk recess". It was exactly as the name suggests.
@@person.w9780 that's gay as fuck
It's not because we are risk-averse, it is because we are litigation averse. Any dumbass can take anyone to court for any silly reason, this wastes ton of time and money. Schools are terrified of litigation because people will sue them over everything.
People still drink, smoke, skydive, drive 100mph on the highway or whatever risky activity you can think of. Companies and individuals are just absolving their liability from those doing risky things.
This was a major shift that began back in the late 70s/early 80s when people began realizing that lawsuits can be a big payday.
Antoine Pageau absolutely. I hate how so many cars dashboards are centred around a screen and boast in their stupid driving assist bullshit. Blind spot monitoring is the stupidest tech ever - a light that goes on on your mirror whenever something’s in your blind spot? I have to turn my head to see that anyway, I may as well use my eyes and look all the way
@@matthews95_ : Canadian viewer. Your words are so true. The new "safety" features of cars.....all it is, is an excuse for the driver to be even more tuned out. It is funny, you can not use a cell phone, hold it in your hold while driving but you sure as hell can play with the in dash 8 inch IPODS that all manufacturers are putting in cars. The average driver is a tuned out idiot.....put the transmission in drive...oh the car will tell me if there is something beside me, as I do not want to use my grey matter to think, assess and act. If I am not paying attention it will auto stop for me........ I had to laugh the new FORD gizmo is trailer assist...for all those who drive full size pick ups and need assistance with backing up a trailer.
You're in a Honda because its reliable?
Not sexy but probably the most desirable feature.
So true I owned on of them keep up with the Maintenance and It just ran and ran and ran ... great freaking car never had to worry about it ....
The 2017 Accord is sexy...
@@ms3173 it's sexy but Honda reliability is crap nowadays. They have fallen behind kia and hyndai
Honda's are not reliable and haven't been since going the "slap a Turbo and CVT in it" route. The car brand with any reliability anymore is Toyota
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv yeah their cvt are the absolute worst.
I get hard watching your videos. That Aztek in the thumbnail made me pass out from the lack of blood flow to my brain. The sound of the roaring 4 popper in your civic brought me back to life.
Good shit, Mr. Goose.
LOVE the Fine Print Series. Always learn something new.
You are absolutely correct. Two points I would, add: The more a consumer pays for a vehicle the greater the expectation. People are much less forgiving of a $40,000 vehicle than a $20,000 vehicle. Secondly, production cycles and refreshes are so quick companies do not have the time to perfect a model before the next latest and greatest model is produced.
Less is more. Manufacturers are adding bells and whistles for the sake of adding Bells and whistles
people obviously buy that even if its not exactly what they need, manufacturers make what sells the best, at least try to
I love watching your videos because they just make the most sense in the real world we live in. Screw everything else. Get down to the facts. And that’s exactly what you do. Bravo 👏🏼
Interesting camera orientation at 13:54. Otherwise, very good video. :)
Pretty sure that was on purpose lol
@@edweagle Oh, well then it went 100% woosh with me. :D
@@mrsabidji rotate your phone
@@simonkaggwanjala it's a desktop computer. :P
@@mrsabidji I don't care. Rotate it anyway.
Love the measured, well-researched, realistic, pragmatic and honest approach of this channel. Saw a car review elsewhere recently where the video ran for 15 minutes yet the actual driving experience was not discussed until the final 3 minutes.....
I will really miss the "perfect in one job" cars, such as first generation Renault Twingo (perfect city car) and the hydropneumatic Citroen line (from DS to C5). All we can do is to preserve those remaining gems.
I really hate the reduction of the driver's passive exterior view. Sure, we always enhanced this using mirrors but once you need a lot of active video you should ask whether things have gone too far. The "too far" isn't just crash safety standards but vehicle form-factors as well. I'm not sure we should have all of these pickups, vans, and SUVs on the road.
Your video made me want a manual 1998 Civic. Reminded me of my '99 Acura 1.6EL, damn I miss that car.
Some of the best cars ever made. And not for nothing, the fuel economy on them was fine, and I never thought they were particularly dirty by modern emission standards. So what benefit is there to a new Civic other than better safety systems and marginally better performance?
@@anthonymascolo5519 Buy an old civic and swap the suspension, seat, and engine. Have a fun daily driven reliable car with good gas mileage and low cost of ownership for a fraction of the cost of a newer one. There is a reason for the huge civic enthusiast community. I've never had one, but I understand the appeal.
@@realbigtuna667 it's still a fwd. Deal breaker
I have a manual 98 civic, it's a lot of fun. But mine has an abused motor and only gets 27 city 32 highway which is kind of disappointing for me.
@@bob15479 The good news is that it still runs...and is likely paid for!
I am shocked how many people can afford gloss piano black trim these days. I just get the soft plastic made from discarded tires, and saved $6 on my refurbished Ford Probe GT.
I love my '97 Honda CRV, it has automatic nothing.
Awesome video to wake up too, Got more knowledge on the advancements car manufacturers are making to improve modern cars, Just mindblowing all the regulations and advancements have come.
All the advancements manufacturers are making to MAXIMIZE PROFIT
@@ellisjackson3355 VERY TRUE
It is always a treat to hear the TRUTH, not marketing, or propaganda or a sales pitch, or disinformation but the honest truth, which is what you present.
that's exactly why we should appreciate nicely made cheap cars when the budget is tight. the true question is why most cheap cars look like shit
They dont have to, look at the new Suzuki Jimny or Dacia Sandero (Good news!).
Maybe because they need to offer the most feature and value at a low price point to attract buyers which also require them to cut on a lot of the aspects of the cars which includes materials, components, etc., including design. You can add a lot of curves and/or creases if you envision the car to be sold cheap. Pressing ain't easy and it requires a press mould per vehicle (excluding those that shares components), plus they have to pay the designers a bit lower if the vehicle doesn't need a lot of design elements to be put in
@@i.aan02 i don't think that's necessarily true for styling from cost perspective. I have never heard a reviewer goes like "they go cheap on the outside". Look at the last gen civic against mazda 3 or even elantra in the same period it's just ridiculous.
@@jameswong9816 good point tho. Maybe it all falls down to preference. The prev gen civic was not well received in the US mainly because it looks different but it was well received in some markets for its "futuristic" vibe. However, what's certain is that designers and engineers envision their vehicle design to atleast become relevant for longer than expected. There are some vehicles out there that still look pretty new even tho they are already a handful of years old. It is just unfortunate for the civic to have the opposite fate.
@Themull problem with that is because when they try to be different they get criticized and unshrugged. Only few gets excited when they release something different and that translate to sales as well. It's sad to not see any manufacturer unveil something that will rise above all the bland choices we have now but there is nothing we can do. They are just answering the prayers of the majority.
The most under appreciated TH-cam channel and I happen to have found and subscribed to it!
stripping everything but the bare essentials from that amazon cart, I see
Why can’t people buy good cars anymore?
BASITH PH they do ?...
cuz for most people a car is just a tool to get from point A to point B. Not everyone's passionate about cars you know.
Because they don’t make them anymore
What do you mean by, "good cars"?
We wait for them to depreciate and buy them used.
God damn dude just mentioned this in a Forte review I'm working on and the Veloster, people want an Italian leather interior and 10,000 watt sound system with cherry on top 12" apple car play tablet for $20k. Good vid Doc too bad mainstreamers turn a blind eye when they hear stuff like this
Funny, you do get leather seats, heated and air conditioned too in the Veloster N but only in Korea.
What’s the price of the N in Korea?
People seriously expect all the goodies at $20k? They have to be on drugs. I don't even tend to expect leather in anything under $40k.
@@MeynMotorGroup Roughly $30k in korean money I guess
@SirVixIsVexed They're absolutely everywhere even amongst journalists
Thanks for explaining the underlying reasons Toyota did the Supra the way they did. Everyone immediately spazzed during the unveiling & initial release: "It has a BMW engine, transmission, and even the BMW door chimes...! It's basically just a Z4 with a Toyota badge...!"
But no one ever considered how the foundation was set up. I wasn't aware that a sports car wasn't able to be part of their current global architecture, so although it's a bit of a bummer not to have a "true" Toyota Supra successor, it makes sense why it is what it is.
When you will do a review of this civic?
This!
@@asdasd01 this is not a civic review
he's agreeing with you
YEAH ! I also would like to see a 98 Civic review, that would be cool.
I think the fact that he’s cruising around in a 98 Civic is all you need to hear lol.
Im glad you said it. Its true that there is a disconnect between what enthusiasts want and what customers actually buy.
It’s not just “enthusiasts”, I just want a good car that doesn’t have 19 inch wheels and a great big infotainment screen. But the millennials don’t buy those so they don’t make them. Stupid is as stupid does.
@@steviesevieria1868 they still make plenty of cars like that imo.
So basically people don't know what they want and car manufacturers listen to the people ? I don't think it's that simple. You're forgeting the other part of the equation ... marketing department which soul purpose is to create artificial need for people.So I don't think it's hard to make a good car I just think it's simpler and cheaper for manufacturer not to - it's all about profit margin. Point and case : charging more for SUV which you don't need but you want ( and you want it because marketing tell you it's cool not because it's actually better for you )
@michael I wasn't really trying to contradict it but it did sound a bit apologetic on manufacturers behalf
I think that none of the stuff mentioned could or should limit the creativity of engineers apart from intentional desire for profit
To put it simply the only reason you couldn't make a good car is greed
And to extent an uneducated custumer
@@dalibormilic139 The "greed" narrative is overplayed and unintellegible. Conversely then, the best car per that argument is that if automakers sold cars that cost $100,000 to make, for a price of $5 (or just gave them away for free).
However, this is not how fundamentally the economy works. Without incentive, even at the individual level, there would be no reason to produce cars (i.e. value). The desire to succeed is the fundamental reason why automakers do what they do in the first place. For instance then why would you not work for no money? Wouldn't you be the best worker if you worked 60 hours a week and received no pay? That is what the "greed" argument is saying.
And all in all, modern cars are a marvel in terms of capability and price. Supply and demand is a constantly self-correcting equalizer that, for better or for worse, manifests in products that fulfill the most needs and wants for the most people. In reality, if companies did anything close to fulfill the Marxist statue of the "greedy corporation", they are promptly punished, hard, by the consumers. Look at American automakers -their car continually lagged in quality and reliability, and no one is buying them anymore.
Dalibor Milić can you clarify greed? These are public companies that have an obligation to maximize profits for their share holders. If you contribute to any retirement then you probably profit off these companies. Therefore your greed to retire with money is driving this? Or do you feel entitled to something for nothing because you exist?
badabing! u got it bro!
@s50201 opposite these days dude, they build them cheap & charge you 20-30k for bottom of the barrel low end, base P.O.S.
Really helped me understand the reasoning behind the Supra "botchery". I feel like it is a good car but that mk4 owner in me is still nostalgic about the old way of doing things. I would have preferred a reskinned LC 500 with a bit higher price point but the funny thing is (and you mentioned it in the video) I have no intention of buying one 😂
I think when automakers make cars unreliable it’s when they start losing ground. You can have some modern aspects improve. Like blue tooth etc. But have an engine without problems without bad transmissions and electrical gremlins. I don’t need paddle shifter it infotainment anything. A nice looking and reliable and cheap to maintain car is the best.
Thank's to you, being a popular automotive channel, for touching on the reality in manufacturing that no one knows about. In real money based on raw materials a basic car today is roughly 60% cheaper than it was 40 years ago. There really is no way forward other than we all drive the same car or that future cars get much simpler.
Want to see the impact of no (or loose) emissions standards (6:00)? Visit Bangkok or Beijing or Mumbai. The combination of mostly diesels motors and motorbikes leads to a daily choking smog that is unbreathable. But, hey, freedom. :-/
Not true, but keep thinking like that -- that's exactly what the statists and ruling class want you to think. The consumer drives the market end of discussion. The people of these countries need to stop propping them up and stop allowing them to profit over clan air and water. A company cannot exist if there are no buyers.
ya, CA would be a disaster with that many people driving unregulated cars
@@Lex-Rex It is true. Look at Los Angeles before CARB and the EPA. People don't prioritize communal impact when they buy things. That's a simple fact. Free market capitalism is optimized for economic output, not overall wellbeing, and free market advocates constantly conflate high economic output with quality of life.
@@Lex-Rex My statements regarding air quality are 100% true. Clearly, you have never spent a minute in any of those cities. I know from first-hand experience, the air is unbreathable. It's not people or livestock. It's unregulated diesel and motorbike emissions. Everyone walking at ground level has a mask over their face and nose. When the only "economic" benefit of a thing is a benefit to the masses (clean air) versus personal benefit (cheap cars with low fuel costs), standard consumer-driven economics must sometimes be supplemented with regulation. It's the same theory that governs things like zoning restrictions or that encourages communities (and counties, states and countries) to build organized roads. Anarchy is not freedom; it's just anarchy.
Free to breathe pollution and suffer and die earlier. Republicans want to give us the same free to be dumb. Of course, they want to live in their gated mansions while skimming most of the profits from the filthy factory somewhere else, so their air and water are clean.
Finally a proper video with all the things that most people should know about car manufacturing,marketing,selling and owning. Keep it up in that direction!
My '09 Subaru 2.5L Impreza 5-speed manual is a pretty good car for the most part. Full time Symetrical AWD, independent front and rear suspension, not too much tech crap, still has manual hvac controls, lightweight, bullet proof reliability, fun to drive (but not fast), good safety system and crash protection. Most of all - cheap to maintain.
I wouldn't trade it in for any CVT, crappy electric power steering Subaru, that's for sure. Can't stand driving those things.
It's going to be a bitch finding a proper replacement for your car. They don't make it for the drive anymore lol.
"Give them time, they will leak"-South Main Auto point of view on subaru's head gaskets.
I concur! Mine leaked😥.
@@tomwalma4762 were you driving aggressively? Driving in the higher rmp range or so? The boxer egines have been know to have those issues based on the owners driving habbis.
I had mine up to 128mph before and drive it quite hard on the highway at times going 100+ MPH for hours in the heat. For example from New York to Georgia in the summertime.
A guy on a forum I know had his 5 speed 2010 2.5i hatch up to 138 mph on a track. That's ripping for a 2.5i!
I have heard of that issue with the head gaskets. I do all the maintenance on time and change oil early, with full synthetic. I bought the car brand new. Might be lucky, I dunno. I don't abuse the car, but after it is warmed up, I hammer the shit out of the engine at times. :-)
I've got an 08 hatch and I've looked at upgrading casually in the past, and MAN, it seems like everything out there would put me worse off. Sure, some/most new cars have nicer interiors, and they're a little quieter, but for what I do, I'd be losing out. I need the hatch space, and I take advantage of the built in roof rack points. Used to live in Idaho (snow) and will likely return shortly. The shortlist of even possible contenders is basically the Audi Allroad ($$$), Mazda 3 hatch (almost identical to what I have now and now rack mount,), other Subarus, Golf Wagon, etc. I don't really want an SUV and I do NOT want a truck. Not that there are zero options out there, but my Impreza works great and fits my needs. No need to spend $30k for something that's basically what I have.
Thank you for your time to make this video! I enjoyed watching, you shared true and important points throughout the video. Keep it up!
well researched subject, nicely put.
One of the few TH-cam channels that I actually enjoy listening to a vlog style video. Well done, Goose
I don't want or expect everything...
I do wish that manufacturers would include heated wipers/windshields for us arctic storm drivers... Subarus have something on the bottom of their windshields, but I've never seen any other average car offer that.
metdr0id I was just saying that the other day at work. It was -41 Celsius out so our windshield was icing up and i said Subaru was the only manufacturer that did that as far as I know. Greetings from British Columbia
My 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan had electric windshield defrost for the wipers
My 99 accord drives like a dream with the double wishbone
I'm pretty certain it's people like you who now drive the market not normal consumers. Big businesses think that you represent us
Hey Bruce. Just wanted to say, my ex wife and her new husband really enjoyed this video. He used to work at Blockbuster so I trust his opinion.
I just want a brown diesel AWD wagon with rear facing jump seats. Is that too much to ask for?
Dieselgate put a stop to that one.
Volvo V70 bro! You can get it in brown, diesel, AWD and even manual. Also, cool 5 cylinder diesel.
@@weedmastersr I think those were only offered with automatics and gasoline engines in the US.
@@MontieMongoose Oh sucks. Maybe you can import one in the future.
@@weedmastersr yeah in about 25 years
lets not forget these car makers have to have a performance segment because it makes the car maker look great in the fact that people see them build a car like that it must mean their regular fleet of vehicles is great as well,hence car makers bringing back old legend series cars like the supra when it becomes available,it connects the car maker to it's fan base as well.
I love your videos. So true we want all under 20k.
The biggest thing I miss... is the thumb controls for the horn.
Title should be, "why is it so easy to make a bad car"
Great video Mark
I hope you can do more of these
Low effort for you, but highly entertaining and educational videos for us
$50k for a Jeep ?? no fraking way. But yeah I expect a $50k car to be strong, reliable, comfortable, durable, etc
Yeah I just don't get the prices on some of these newer cars. Then again, I don't car about all the toys and extras. For ex, automatic parking? I don't think I would ever use it. Definitely wouldn't go looking for a car with it.
20 years ago, a Jeep Wrangler was well over $20k with all the options. Compare the cost to build the old Jeep to the new one and consider inflation. Wages have not increased with inflation. 20 years ago, a $400 car payment wasn't considered outrageous. Now consider an $800 a month car payment.
orbitalair Yeah Jeep, is Italian now.
Sooooooo.. Expect FIAT levels of "reliability" lol
Try 60k for a loaded Rubicon. There’s really nothing else similar to a Wrangler. A body-on-frame convertible SUV that is designed for off-road first and on-road second. The JLs are so much more refined than the old Wranglers in every way, yet they are the most off-road capable a Wrangler has ever been straight from the factory. FCA did a great job and you can still get a basic one if you want for $30k.
Just buy a used suzuki sidekick and add mud tires to it. Save your money for a vacation.
This is my most valuable car channel
I don't drive a zillion cars, but my experience is different. I regularly drive a 2 year old Prius C and a 1 year old Honda Fit, and I find both of them very nice cars. The Fit especially, plenty of power to merge onto a busy highway and yet almost as good gas mileage as the Prius, the interior works well and is nicely laid out, lots of room, and handles quite nicely for a normal car. I'm looking at Honda Canada right now, these start at $15,500 CAD, I couldn't have gotten a car like this for this money in 1980 or 1990. The 2006 Focus Wagon I had wasn't this good. The 1991 Trooper I had wasn't this nice, though I did feel like Indiana Jones driving it. My 1985.5 944 was more luxurious and wildy fun to drive, but not so reliable (those heater knobs, that sunroof!!)and cost $35K USD new in '85!!
What am I missing? What is the car from the past that was better than this Fit for the same or less money?
Awesome perspective. Thought provoking. Funny thing is I was stopped in traffic looking around. Every car around me looked exactly the same. SUVish with the same exact styling. I want car markers to take risks. In some ways Volvo has but many don’t. At the same time too much risk leads to disasters like the PT cruiser.
They need to remake 80s Toyota pickup trucks. Problem solved!
I'd like to see mini trucks in general come back.
Still a little pissed about the lack of a manual option for the ranger
Well, the definition of a good car has changed. Nowadays people don't buy a car for their everydays, or their true needs, but they buy cars for the "what if?" scenarios. Most people buy SUV because what if they have to drive on a gravel road? or what if they have to carry 7 people, or what if they need to haul a fridge, what if they will go to the beach and have to tow like a boat or something. Although the possibility of these is fairly slim for most buyers, they still get these SUVs that are really not good in anything.
Simply put a car that tries to be everything will be at best acceptable in those aspect but not exceptional. A Lincoln Navigator won't be a true luxury car, it just looks bloated, and won't look elegant, as a luxury car should. It would be fast, because it's too heavy, but won't be capable off road because it is again, too heavy.
On the other hand the old mini was economical and that's it. It wanted be an economical car and it was. Or the Muscle cars were powerful, but that's it, they were built to beat cars in the quarter mile, and they could do this, but only this (basically).
Not to mention that in many cases women have a bigger say in car choice, and on average they are looking for the most boring aspects of a car: Ease of use/comfort/safety/big size. Basically everything that makes a car bad, from the enthusiast point of view.
Also, people got scared into buying "safer" cars, which could be important, but what's the point in living if the only thing you think about is safety? You won't even have sex because you might get some disease or unplanned pregnancy, because you know, everything could fail, you don't leave the house, because someone might stab you on the street? Just say, screw it and get the car you like and fuck safety ;)
Btw. they still make good cars, V8 mustangs/miata/BR-Z, these are nice driver's cars, but some enthusiast focus too much on raw HP, and that will get boring after some time, but a capable driving machine (like the miata or the BR-Z) will be satisfying every time. And heck, how often do you REALLY have to drive with more than 1 person and carry around fridges? If it is less then 10%, just tell the person to go fuck themselves and that's it :D Buy the car you need, not that other expect you to have (unless you have a family, and don't think a 10+ year or whatever is a good enough family car)
Um...why do we still have the dealership sales model forced upon us by legal requirement? It's about as relevant as blood lettings. Get rid of that monstrosity and perhaps we can begin to approach having the types of cars that the populace actually calls for.
Awesome post, Matt! Post of the Day! Star on paper, paper up on fridge!!! Not kidding, been saying the same for years. They shove it down our throats (instituted by gov't edict of all places!) and told we are to like it. No where else in America, save the mandated "healthcare" debacle we get shoved at us, are we given zero choice - NO WHERE!
PS Btw, reason #1 that they set out to destroy Elon Musk from the get go, to your point exactly - no need for the dealership game. None whatsoever. Talk about upsetting the old boy's apple cart. Uh-huh. Again, good post.
Direct your anger at dealerships, themselves, not the legal system. The "legal requirements" are the result, not the cause. Franchise laws (of which the dealership sales model is an example) are all state level, not federal statutes. And they come about because dealerships, themselves, and their trade associations are powerful local and statewide political actors. They argue that franchise exclusivity promotes local control versus the actions of faceless national corporations and promotes responses more quickly and efficiently to local consumer preferences and complaints. You may well feel you'd have more "choice" if manufacturers were in charge but there is a reasonable argument to the contrary.
In any case the dealers' arguments may well be horse pucky but to a state legislator with one or more major dealerships in his/her district it can be extremely persuasive.
@@stephenhendricks103 Any relation to Hendrick Automotive Group? One of the top 10 dealership conglomerates in the US auto industry?
@@jedclampett7705 Boy, I wish. :) Nope. As you can see, the last name has an "s" on the end. And by the way, I'm not necessarily opposed to manufacturer to consumer direct sales bypassing or eliminating the dealership model. I'd simply point out that it's not a simple issue but one with some reasonable arguments on each side. And I'm amused by those (often conservatives) who complain about the decline of "local autonomy" in business and celebrate "free enterprise" and competitive markets while supporting the takeover of nationwide automotive sales by a few giant corporations.
At the present time Tesla continues a state by state fight to sell vehicles directly to consumers. According to Wikipedia 11 states still prohibit direct sales to consumers. Another 10 states allow it and eight states have come to some sort of compromise that allows a few "corporate" stores to operate in the state. The sands are shifting on the issue but I have a feeling that many consumers who wish fervently for local dealerships to disappear may be sorry for what they wished for.
This is the prelude of getting into the automotive religion! Going right to the essence of things. No other youtuber or car journalist goes so deep down and close to the point of what actually the meaning is. I ask my self the same things and i m a car salesman and a mechanic and a freak who has only one thing in mind! The car! Saying all these things and analyzing the Situation is something much more useful for the buyer than pure numbers of products who doesn't actually are helpful and important. Down to the bone is this introduction and everybody should see it and try to unterstand it, simple auto fans, enthusiasts and even real Professionals. If you ever come to Germany i d like to have a beer with you and get the chance to talk about ..religion. Cheers dude and stay like that !
I need that Toto toilet 🚽
If you go on holiday in Japan, they are very popular. My neighbour (we are outside of Japan) bought one after a trip rthere, those things are insane. Funniest feature, her toilet is opening and pre-warming when she enters the room.
and a wireless buttplug to sync to it
It all makes more sense now. I've always wondered about the compromise most manufacturers make. Great infotainment!
Manufs need to be forced to open those ecus with publicly available documentation. There is absolutely no need for a scan tool to cost $5000. Did you know a dealer is required to reflash your car if you bring it to them, most times they dont tell you. There needs to be a way for the consumer to read all the computer data, and all the history of a cars software.
Absolutely the best automotive TH-cam channel today!!
The customer has changed in the last 10 years or so. Instead of asking questions about the reliability, handling, materials, etc...people are concerned about Bluetooth/hotspot, posting on Facebook, Yelp, handsfree texting, etc. Few cars are made for the pleasure of driving as the #1 thing the car was built to do. Toyota made a huge mistake using BMW for the Supra. The mark 4 Supra was a 100% Toyota product and made possible because variants the drivetrain and suspension were in other Toyota/Lexus models cutting R&D overhead in the cost per unit. They should have done the same this time and kept Supra 100% Toyota. Instead they got lazy and outsourced.
I see it in another light. There are some good arguments made on the video about the toyota-bmw collaboration that I agree with.
In fact, lets take a look at the Lexus LFA. It was a very high performing car, amazingly well built, excelent materials. Didn't sell, because it was too exclusive and way too expensive compared to the other supercars. But, except from the engine, toyota fully developed the whole car. So we can say that, due to Toyota's absolute Lean mentality, it would be hard to see a another sports-car attempt from them.
@@Rafagafanhotobra if Honda did it with the s200 & NSX I don't see why they couldn't.
Customers are of course a huge part of the problem :( watching car adverts is mostly just a series of features I really don't care about. e.g. on a cheap runabout it'll be talking about the '16" alloy wheels, park assist, keyless entry" - it's a small car, gains nothing from the alloys (more often than not compromises the ride and handling to try to look shiny), is easy to park anyway and lets face it, cheap keyless entry is just making your car easier to nick. No mention of anything about the actual car being in any way not terrible.
> Few cars are made for the pleasure of driving as the #1 thing the car was built to do.
Am I the only one who just wants my goddamned car to get me where I am going? I don't want it to give me "pleasure" ffs... if I want "pleasure" I'll find someone to give me a hand job.... my days of looking at vehicles as a source of fun ended when I grew the fuck up, stopped being a boy, and my vehicles stopped having a "Fischer Price" label on it.
@@xs10z If you want a vehicle that just gets you where you want to go a 1990s Toyota is what you want.
And I find it very ironic you claim to be grown up yet don't understand the basic concept that other people may have different interests than you do.
Awesome video Savagegeese!!!
This is why Toyota and BMW went together on the new Z4 and Supra. BMW did not want to bare the cost alone because Z4 sales have never been good and the Supra is a niche product itself. The Supra might not exactly be the GTR fighter we wanted but Toyota was able to give use a fast, affordable, standout design and modern sports car for the masses. At 49k it’s cheaper then the previous MK4. We should praise that. We the people don’t care about what it cost them we want what we want we should be more understanding that these car companies are a business before anything they have to do what keeps money in their pocket and what makes them money.
I will be happier with the supra if they offer it with a manual trans as strong or stronger than the old T56. The issue is that its competing (sort of) with the GT350 and Camaro 1LE. Dollar for dollar I'd take the Shelby or Camaro any day.
@Micheal Stillabower How exactly is the performance disappointing for the price? The fact that it's lighter, stiffer, more rigid yet has a wider stance than the LFA without using reinforced carbon fiber, has a shorter wheelbase and a lower center of gravity than the GT86, has 255/35/ZR19 on the front and 275/35/ZR19 on the rear (hence - RWD), a perfect 50:50 power-to-weight distribution ratio, etc.. yup, it's worth it to me.
Let alone that it costs right about comparably to the old car while being on-par with the competition.
The new supra is a good car but it needs a dct or manual. For the money I'd go with an m2 competition
@@behindthen0thing For one, dual-clutch transmissions can feel a bit clumsy at lower speed limits and throttle response.
Secondly, I personally don't think it needs a manual, since I'm sure any car can be fun regardless of gearbox. What matters most is engine and handling, paired with all of the mechanical and structural engineering to truly make a car engaging, especially with the auto's aggressive gearing needed.. A car with a solid performing engine and a solid chassis, and again, all of the mechanical and structural engineering to truly make a car engaging can be a fun car with or without a manual. For example, that if you were offered a new Z06 Corvette with 600+ HP but it only comes in the 8 speed auto, you wouldn't get any pleasure out of driving that car because of the automatic? What about the LFA and R35 GT-R? And what about a modern Ferrari like a Portofino, 488, GTC4Lusso? They don't offer a manual transmission but a semi automatic, the paddle shifters used in a F1 formula race car. Are those not an enthusiasts' car just because they don't offer a stick?
That's really the logic I don't get with the car community.
@Micheal Stillabower 1) Because speed isn't everything, as the mechanical engineering paired with the easy-to-live with nature that supercars lack, are the best of both worlds in a sports car that's the new Supra. Hence a 4.1 second sprint to 60 is impressive especially since it weighs under 3400 lbs. (MPG hasn't yet been finalized so can't tell)
2) Between the $49K-$55K range, which is a bargain to me and a lot less expensive than I thought.
3) The fact that it's lighter, stiffer, more rigid yet has a wider stance than the LFA without using reinforced carbon fiber, has a shorter wheelbase and a lower center of gravity than the GT86 while also doubling its rigidity, has 255/35/ZR19 on the front and 275/35/ZR19 on the rear (hence - RWD), a perfect 50:50 power-to-weight distribution ratio, etc.. it will be a helluva capable on a track, a curvy back road, etc.
I'll put in two cents: My everyday driver is a 1995 Accord. I bought it specifically so I could have a decent car to drive around, with no fuss. It has everything I want for a daily: power windows, locks, cruise control, AC. This car cost the equivalent of 28k in 95 though. The current customer base would never spend that kind of money if it didn't have all kinds of other stuff like multiple airbags, Bluetooth(which I added to mine), more powerful engine, etc. It speaks to economic conditioning for consumers more than anything. I see it every day working as an auto tech. People complain about the dumbest things, whereas twenty or thirty years ago, people were happy just to have a good car that didn't break down on them like in the 60s and 70s. The point is, with the requirements in safety and emissions it has made cars far more expensive than they should be, even with inflation, so people expect a lot more for their money because of perceived value.
....or people ask for a good competitively priced car such as the Chevy SS, Lancer EVO but nobody wants actually to own one.
You are so on the money with this video. More people need to watch this. It'll make them understand why stuff is so stupid expensive today. Honestly, I think some of the best "point a to point b" cars where the mid 90's Japanese cars, I just wish they were as safe as the cars today, build wise. I also think that most people don't even know what the hell they want and then the mfgs go crazy with adding all this junk (like you mentioned). I wish we could still get simple stuff. You see it less and less and I feel like the ads and media influence most people into believing that this is what they want. Great video Mark. The only thing that I would have done differently was to drive around with more snow on the hood of your car.
Hate them as much as you want, but am glad Tesla came along to create a wave of disruption because the truth is other manufacturers are already reacting to their cars. Competition is always nice.
Tesla was got $3.5 BILLION from the government that did NOT have to be paid back, unlike TARP.
government =TAXPAYERS
@@chrismemphis8062 Not true. They got a loan, not a grant. And already paid every penny of it.
Look at GM though. Taking government money and still making crappy cars.
@@DarcersTech The Obama admin gave HUGE tax breaks and rebates to the buyers of teslas. Who paid for that?? TAXPAYERS
@@chrismemphis8062 You confuse Tesla and electric cars in general. The government is subsidizing all electric cars - equally. Just like any new industry with potential to enhance economy / people's quality of life.
Been really depressed about the 86 and Supra not being made with a Toyota Engine like the old days. But you are absolutely right. We as customers have to have a realistic view of these cars and how much it takes to get to us.
New cars have way too much electronics...and unfortunately these driving aids dont make better drivers
no but they do make dangerous drives less deadly aeb and tc have certinly saved lives. If you want a metal box buy a defender
Few years ago I read a book(sorry I forget the titel) that explained in some pretty good detail, the process car manfactures go through from ideal to conception. The testing, reasearch, etc... Pretty interesting. It's also sad when they engineers put so much effort into something and the top guys/suits/accounts eliminate some stuff to go cheaper to save a few dollars and end up making the product much worse than it should be.
You try to be everything to everyone
I so surprised when I drove a mint 1989 Camry V6, it was smooth, peppy, no torque steer (had equal length drive shafts), visibility was amazing, steering feedback was better than most modern cars and handling was actually decent for a commuter sedan. It was so nice, that I went looking for an ES250 (Lexus version).
Cars are too expensive, people just don't have enough money is what I figure. Have you seen the recent study that says most Americans are 3 months behind on their auto payments
Jeez
What's happening with car loans is the exact same thing that happened ten years ago with mortgages. Lenders got greedy and started giving out loans to anybody who had a pulse, regardless of how capable they were of paying it back. People only looked at the payment, not the total or the interest, so they got these insanely long loans to buy stuff they can't afford.
It's a bubble. And it'll pop. Likely soon.
I can really relate to the suspension example you used. I had a 2000 civic coupe that handled miles better than the 2004 accord Sedan I had. Was shocked how different it was even after accounting for the extra weight.
So is the alfa 4c one of the only examples of a car not designed for a profit, subsidized by marketing, as a relaunch of the brand?
One of the few.
What other cars under the stratospheric price range, might not be platform engineered? I can't really think of any....but there must be some out there.
@@lorenmckechnie8900 The Miata, BRZ, 370Z
@Charlie Vetsworth I'm sure that Corolla of your looks very good.
Well, like any Ferrari. Every other supercar/exclusive car (McLaren, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, RR) it's made for a reason, whether it's performance (sheer hp or handling) or luxury/styling/size/etc, and usually, in no limited number production. Each Ferrari instead is limited production, performance is never the highest ranking (easily a mcLaren or even a well tuned subaru wrx or a bmw m5 can reach its levels), styling is very personal and extreme, they're not practical car at all, they're absolutely delicate and not reliable, very expensive to mantain, the ride is usally hard and not silent nor comfortable. And yet, that's what you want from a Ferrari...
Very well-stated and thought out analysis Finding a car with soul is getting harder and harder. Having fun with my Celica gts with the feisty four popper 2zz. But it is 20 years old and won't be hear much longer.
Once automakers are able to get rid of the Combustion engine things will get a lot easier for manufacturers. The C.E. is simple in nature, but now trying to understand a modern motor with variable valve timing, port and direct injection, variable compression ratios... all of this makes for an impossibly complex mess that has little hope for manufacturers to be able to fix down the road. Batteries and electric motors are stone age in complexity compared to a modern ICE. I may be wrong but that's how I see it. VW is doubling down on EV and trying to get rid of ICE asap...I think it's smart but a big risk at the same time. Time will tell. Thanks geese.
Oh how could i forget the added complexity of forced induction...Cheers.
I don't want an electric car
@@behindthen0thing There's plenty of time for ICE to be around. Probably another 20 years. No need to fret yet kind sir.
electric cars lose 50% of their effeciency in the cold. as much as its nice to to have no emissions, electric cars arent actually that green. and the government trying to force them on us by making it impossible to design an ICE solution is whats wrong with the government right now.
PHGamer battery tech is the major factor for electric cars. From cost to range it’s the major hurdle that will keep them our of regular hands until dealt with. Apparently there is new battery tech being created in japan. Double carbon I believe. That will combine the pros of capacitors with quick recharge with little loss over time with energy density of batteries. Once mass produced electrics will take over
So many good things about this video: 1) The car in the thumbnail actually is pretty reliable, I see so many on the road still, and most have no body damage
The last part about companies "watering down" the product is very true in the case of GM. Back in the nineties they developed the Pontiac Transport concept car. It was good looking and very attractive for a minivan. When they put it into production it came out looking like a Dust Buster and handling like an overloaded garbage truck.
youre so right! i never before bought a car that i didnt expect to replace the sound sys, suspension, power mods. cars now a days are so much and expensive and still isnt what some of us want. i dont care about the info system, the phone dies everything better....