How did I screw up this IFR Departure so badly?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
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"Altitude Alert!" from ATC and Terrain Warnings flashing, somehow I messed this IFR departure procedure up. I'm going to get to the bottom of it in this video.
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Portions of ATC communication and the flight have been edited. This video is not instructional in any way. I am not a CFI. I am sharing my experience and thoughts about this flight and this should be taken as entertainment only. By sharing mistakes and accomplishments alike, hopefully the aviation community will benefit.
00:00 - Intro
00:38 - Loading the Plane
00:49 - Early Morning Start
01:15 - Overweight?
01:48 - First Look at the Footage
02:29 - Clearance
03:55 - Takeoff
04:33 - Thank you to our Sponsor, Factor
05:27 - Rwy Heading
05:58 - Hdg 260
06:38 - Into the Clouds/GPS acting up
07:23 - GPS oddities
08:00 - Trying to pickup the radial with no GPS
08:36 - Not climbing
09:07 - Turning into terrain
09:29 - Reviewing all the Cameras
10:07 - Deaprture Procedure Confusion
10:34 - Analysis - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I think you did a good job breaking down the situation. As a commercial pilot and a new IFR pilot , im thinking: Next time tune the VOR with the radial used for departure? And, if the weather is such that you cannot see terrain and you have terrain alerts, reverse course immediately.
@@blake9908 Could also ask center for vectors to above the cloud layer and next wp no? Especially if your having a malfunction.
Selecting rwy 12 isn't a problem. Just fly the ODP as shown. You didn't need to get stumped. The Whiteman ODP is usually always from 30 anyway, and it's not really a proper RNAV SID anyway that loads all the points and headings, well it does but I don't follow the gps for whiteman1 because it's simple and VOR based, and as long as you maintain the climb rate you have nothing to worry about. Inputting the runway wrong on the gps doesn't matter as for Whiteman one you can use the gps as advisory only. You literally only do 3 things, left turn 260 at 400 agl, right at VNY 325, and since you were cleared to 10,000, you weren't even altitude restricted so it was 2 things. The real mystery is were you not climbing fast enough becsuse you said you did so where did the terrain warning and atc warning come from and why? That's the mystery not the gps
I’m very happy this isn’t an accident case study, and you were able to look back and see where you went wrong. Thank you for sharing, this will definitely help others
So many of the crashes we looked at in my aviation class in college started out exactly like the beginning of this video. Very lucky nothing bad happened.
Listen! I am an Airline pilot with thousands of hours logged ! And believe me , we all make mistakes. I am very happy that you were humble enough to share this video with us! I have myself done the same mistake , but was able to change the departure during the climb. We were a 2 member crew, both experienced and even going through many checklist before departure we skipped something really simple ! You see, it happens to anyone , we are humans ! The beauty of your video is that makes us think about our mistakes, how to
Improve , and above all, how to help others to avoid them ! Congrats for you excellent airmanship as well as your lack of vanity ( which is very common in our industry!). A good flight starts in the ground , never rush and go through your checklist as many time as necessary and never ever let anyone push you. We all have our own pace ! Congrats my fiend !
Sharing these experiences is VERY APPRECIATED. Nothing else maybe besides surgery requires such a high level of precision and rejection of checklist fatigue. I’m sure tiny distractions along the way would derail many of us, so if nothing else this is a good reminder to just go slow and be patient. Thank you for sharing.
We were just discussing the concept of confirmation bias at a medical staff meeting. As a pilot, I really appreciate your candor about this topic. I’m glad your story had a happy ending. So many don’t.
Comparing flying to surgery is dense
@@user-re4hc7yf2m yes this was a fruitful discussion.
I'm not a pilot, and hearing the "terrain" warning still sends chills down my spine! I bet that was an intense moment for you - and huge relief when you broke through the clouds!
Indeed!
Maybe this is due to the fact that I am a (VFR) pilot, but if I was "right seat" when that "caution terrain" alert went out, I would have put the camera down and helped in whatever way I could. Scary to hear when in the clouds.
Great video, as usual. Small nitpick on your radio work: don’t check in with a heading unless it’s an assigned vector. That’s why the controller said to you, “verify you’re on the Whiteman 1 DP.” He wanted to make sure you were on the procedure (as he expected) and hadn’t somehow been assigned a random heading, because your check-in implied that you had been.
ah gotcha. I was taught to say hdg 260 on that DP but I undersatnd it def does make more sense to say hdg260 on the whiteman One or something like that. Great note thank you
or just say climbing via the Whiteman one... no heading required at all@@SoCalFlyingMonkey
@@flyingguy3920 Not from that area of the country, but as a center controller who does work to the ground "climbing via the x" is what I would expect/want to hear. I don't care "what" the procedure is telling you to do, just so long as you are doing it.
@@AntariusI believe he was given 4000 in his clearance, not climb via the Whiteman One. Which would have been 4600. But I’m not sure because he cut that part of the clearance out of the video.
So something like: “SolCal Dep, N1234, 1200 climbing 4000, Whiteman One.”
Yes?
ATC knows which departure and runway you were assigned. So saying the name of the Departure is the same as confirming the heading your flying and or intend to fly. And since you were given an altitude other than what is on the Departure, stating your assigned altitude is required.
But if ATC had not given an altitude and instead said: “Climb via SID” in the clearance.
Then your initial contact could go something like this:
“SolCal Dep, N1234, 1200 climbing via Whiteman One.”
And that’s it… it tells ATC everything they need to know, your current altitude, that you plan to climb above or below whatever altitude restrictions are stated on the plate and that you are flying the designated headings on the plate.
The way u restated it works. Also consider “Solcal, N1234 1200 climbing via the Whiteman1 except maintain 4000”
I was an aviator for over 40 years, and it’s always very refreshing to see articles or videos about “I learnt about flying from that” Thank you, stay safe.
I'm glad it all worked out. This type of video and debrief for other pilots is priceless. I appreciate it.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkeythanks for another great video. Go Ducks
Thank you for sharing, this could save someone someday. My only recommendation is if you find yourself task saturated always ask ATC for help via vectors, headings, freq’s etc… A lot
of people are afraid to ask them for assistance.
yes definitely. that would have been the next step if I couldnt get a handle on the course with the analog nav. thank you.
Hard one to share I am certain, but so glad you did! It's raw videos like this that make your channel great!
Wow, this is one of the most valuable experiences you’ve shared. Thanks for helping us all learn from your experience and fly safer
Thanks for the supportive comment!
Perhaps one of the other good lesson to be learned from this experience could be to not solely rely on GPS to help you do a departure procedure that isn’t a RNAV procedure and also to set it up on the airplane with VORs as a back up. Great video and appreciate you taking time to share this experience for everyone to learn from
When you're the only IFR pilot onboard, the buck stops with you. You are the PIC and nobody is going to save you, unless there is some other intervention. SA is the heart of IFR. If you are putting all your eggs in the GPS NAV basket, you must verify every inch of the route. With this level of automation, it does what it is told. When using a DP, it is critical to verify, crosscheck, and verify again every inch. Your particular error usually occurs with a last minute rwy change. Have a way to cross check your position with radio navigation. If something doesn't make sense, you need to act and use every resource available. Request a vector until you get it sorted out. You must intimately know your equipment and how to use it. Nobody is there to catch your mistakes, so force yourself to slow down and verify your route from the rwy to the enroute structure. Add an item to your checklist if you have to. I think you realize just how close you came to disaster, those holes in the cheese almost lined up. No doubt, this video will help others.
yep agreed. I verified the procedure but not well enough. Luckily I had good SA and the analog nav at the ready. The next step would have been asking ATC for vectors. It crossed my mind and I would have done it if it looked like I wouldnt have been able to outclimb the terrain. So glad I have terrain awareness and terrain warnings on the Dynon HDX. Hopefully the video IS helpful.
@SoCalFlyingMonkey One added layer of protection on an RNAV DP or similar is before crossing the hold short line at the runway verify the runway "Runway X, in the grass and on the glass." In the grass, meaning on the runway signage itself, and on the glass, meaning the initial way point on your FMS, and the runway heading on your DG, and finally one last heading on your standby mag compass. Slowly say and point to all of them as you line up. When you got them all lined up, you're ready. Stay safe, Sir.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkeyabsolute aviation noob here and therefore a question out of pure logic: wouldn’t it have been safer to ask for vector and altitude by ATC first? If there is one NAV system at fault there is at least a probability that the other could have issues as well (I know they are independent and redundant), so wouldn’t the lowest-risk procedure include asking the ATC until you confirmed that your other NAV systems work properly?
Besides that I applaud your awareness and willingness to learn and share that experience with others!
This video might save someone’s life. You touched on two key factors in many accidents: distractions and confirmation bias. Having flown this departure many times one could easily become complacent. The issues raised in this video are helpful to any pilot of any skill level. Thanks very much for making it.
Great debrief and excellent job finding the root cause. Also great that you had the bearing pointer already available during the departure. Whenever I find myself making an error, I go back and evaluate if I can modify my SOPs to prevent me from repeating the same error.
One of the thoughts that wen through my head, and maybe he did with the bearing pointer, was 'why didn't you have the second radio tuned to the outbound radial.' I haven't flown as PIC in over 40 years, and when I was flying, we didn't have GPS (and I never got an instrument rating). So, I don't know where that bearing pointer came from. The GPS or the second Nav/Com. I think it's a Nav/Com, looked like one to me.
36 seconds. That all it took for me to know that you are the best kind of pilot there is. Humble and not just passively willing to learn from your mistakes, you really want to analyze and learn from them. This will keep you and your loved ones alive. Bravo, sir.
Thanks for sharing!!! this is awesome. Being humble enough to recognize your mistakes and share it. Im a 400-hour private pilot with Instrument Rating. I always think about the worst scenario and prepare as much as possible before my trips. but these kinds of videos are the ones that help us to be reminded that a single mistake could lead to a terrible situation or catastrophe. again, thanks for posting this.
Thanks for sharing! In my flight school something simmilar happened. A student sent a route he made in foreflight to the Garmin. One waypoint in the Route was a custom added waypoint in foreflight, all the others were coordinates. The G1000 did not took the Custom waypoint since it was just a name. Long story short this almost ended up in a CFIT since they were doing a night flight.
My takeaway from that and your story is that is IF youre going the easy way by just uploading you have to really check every point by point.
Another good procedure we use in training wich I can highly recommend is to set your VOR CDI (Green Needle) to the first course to be flown / heading to be intercepted (in this case 325 VNY) and then switch the CDI back to GPS.
In case something happens to the GPS directly after T.O. you could easily revert back to Green Needles which gives you some time and situational awareness to troubleshoot or look at the chart what comes next instead of having to deal with a bearing pointer while checking the map and trying to understand what happened to the GPS.
Please don't stop sharing mistakes! These videos and your honest analyses are gold learning opportunities for the rest of us IFR pilots. This video has prompted me to go back and study/review climb gradient requirements some more and it really drives home how important they are. Thank you!
Thanks for the encouragement and its great to hear that it was helpful for you..
So impressed that you shared this. So often, pilots feel like the don’t dare show their weaknesses, but it seems to me that we are just lying to ourselves. I flew the other day out of TRM and I was rusty. My landings were naturally not what they are when flying all the time and my partner in our plane was creating all sorts of distractions unintentionally as he was fiddling with our equipment. It made me realize how important it is for a pilot to be able to quickly differentiate what is important in a flight vs. items that just don’t matter. In this situation, figuring out what was going on with the gps was so unimportant compared to clearing lower terrain. I can so relate to this because every time we get new equipment, which we all love, there is a learning curve that makes it a headache in the short term.
Such a fantastic lesson for all IFR pilots. Really good debrief and shows that having the VOR dialed in as a quick backup to the GPS is definitely a nice thing to do.
Thanks for the video. I am not a pilot but I did learn something. Input directly straight to gps or equipment and don't rely too much into the iPad. I am a paramedic and we have a saying, " treat the patient not the equipment" the equipment can tell you something but the presentation of the PT tells you the truth. Happy flying.
I like that comparison. Thank you.
It seems apparent this was difficult to not only experience but to contemplate the possible outcomes especially given the precious occupants on the plane. We've all had moments that have caused us to question our circumstances and choices. I appreciate your willingness to confront this straight-on and then share it with the rest of us. It makes us all better pilots. Thank you, sincerely.
Problem with familiarity is familiarity. You simply must approach each flight as the first time you are flying it. Thanks be to God you survived this lesson.
i agree. thats a good way to put it.
Huge balls for posting, also an enormous learning moment for all the aviation
As a student pilot working on his PPL this video was a great watch. Even though I’m not working towards instrument yet still great lessons to be learned from this. Thanks for sharing and glad you made it to your destination safely!
Dude...that is scary. Student pilot here and I want nothing to do with IMC (yet). Glad it didnt turn out worse. Made me think of the Kobe helicopter crash.
I can’t tell you how much sharing this means to me and many other IFR pilots. THANK YOU for sharing this I hope you feel that you did the right thing posting this video. I’m glad you and everyone on board are safe! Best of luck to your daughter her sophomore year and remember the best pilots are ALWAYS LEARNING.
A seriously great debrief and analyzation. As an instrument student at KVNY, I picked up a lot of valuable information here and especially close to home. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing. These breakdowns are great for all of us to learn from.
I always try to back up my GPS with the secondary NAV radio and CDI in my panel. On this DP I set it to R325 and if the needle starts to center up and GPS course guidance doesn't have me in the turn I know something is up. Modern GPS is a wonderful thing, but there is a lot of button pushing and one wrong tap can spell disaster. The old VOR navs are pretty hard to screw up. I hope they keep them around a bit longer.
Yeah it's a good idea to have the VOR course dialed in. I'm adding that to my predeparture prep after I get the clearance.
A Very SOF Debrief to hash this out in the view of the public. Its a gift to be able to thrash ones self with others watching, and learn from it. The combination of mountainous terrain in IMC conditions in a limited performance acft,...only give yourself a second to figure out the problem, (dont trouble shoot while not climbing and heading towards terrain) then let ATC know you are having a navigational issue and need a vector away from the mountains. They can be that copilot you need to lighten your work load so you can get things straightened out and not parked against a CumuloGranite cloud.
Mad respect for having the courage to share this. Very instructive! Stay safe! ❤
thanks for sharing, really great to see you go over the whole course of events and work out exactly what the issue was. Love your work!
Even the best of the best can always learn something! Thanks for sharing and glad the flight was good after the issue.
Great job on the diagnosis, glad you are still here with us.
Thanks for sharing! What an easy mistake to make with such dire consequences. Glad it worked out for you.
Very courageous and humble to hang this out there for everyone to learn from. Thanks for sharing and allowing others to learn.
Kudos for making this video and going through it so throughly!
Kudos for calmly dealing with the situation and bonus points for having the courage to share the situation. It’s easy to see how easy it was to miss the departure runway on the displayed procedure. Glad it all worked out!
Thanks for sharing your experience and the details! it's great you had such a neat setup to review what happened and learn from it. I really appreciate you sharing this, and as you stated, it's hard to admit when one is wrong and even harder to share it publicly.
Insane! Great work keeping calm and keeping everyone safe!
Thanks for being willing to share, nice work, glad you are safe!
Sorry to hear that mate, thankfully you are fine now. Thank you for sharing!
Great debrief! Love that you shared your mistakes for others to learn👌🏼
Thank God you made it! Thx for the video. Cool stuff, captain.
Hey thanks for sharing that. I like that you're not too proud to share your mistakes.
Another great and educational video, Eric. Not many pilots would take the time to acknowledge mistakes and publish them, You really are doing all pilots a great service. Best, Cary
That's really brave and courageous of you to publish this video.... and EXTREMELY valuable for all other pilots over there, myself included. By doing that you may have saved one or more lives.... we would never know how many, but this video ringing in the head of a pilot preparing for an IFR departure and being extra careful based on your experience is definitely going to make a difference (for safer) in someone's life
I’ve been watching accident case studies in these IFR scenarios. Glad you made it out and taught the rest of us
I am glad you shared this. It is so easy to overlook something.
You did a really good thing here by sharing this. Possibly, saving a life.
So great that you share this. It has to be tough but the rest of us can really benefit and learn from it. Thanks so much 👍🏼
Thanks for posting this! Good on you for wanting to blast out lessons learned and owning the mistakes. We ALL make them!! Keep it up!!
What matters the most now is that you and your family are safe and that because of that now you are a better pilot.
Thanks for sharing.
Wow! I'm glad your fine. Thanks for sharing...
Best video I've seen on TH-cam! excellent learnings and WOW what incredible editing! Top work!
Awesome video and great job on recognizing the problem.
Great video and education for other pilots. Your humility and humbleness could save someone's life by sharing your error.
Kudos for sharing this video and that small error that is VERY easy to make. It's such a great blessing that the avionics we have (I have a Dynon panel with a GPS 175 in my RV-7A) are so amazing with terrain visuals and awareness alerts. That's an error you will never make again, no matter where you depart from, and I venture to say that you have helped many other pilots double-check their departure runways every time! Keep the great videos coming.
I appreciate your vulnerability in sharing this. I have noted and learned from your experience, and I will check and double check my FP's entered for accuracy with your story in mind. Thank you so much!!!❤
Thank you for sharing. It takes a confident and well-adjusted person to admit mistakes and share them for all the world to see.
Thank you for the honest review!
Fantastic debrief. Thank you for the courage to share this.
Thank you so much.
I've watched your progression over the past couple years. You are a very good pilot. Don't beat yourself up too much. You made a mistake. It could have been deadly, but it wasn't. It's an error I can guarantee you won't make again. I'd would gladly fly with you anytime.
Thanks for the encouragement and support. I appreciate it!
Wow, what an amazing debrief. Showing mistakes on TH-cam is difficult but, as an IFR pilot, the opportunity to learn from your experience is invaluable. I’m preparing for a CFII checkride and I saved this to my flight folder to show future students. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for sharing your mistakes. It’s definitely taught me something. Fly safe!
Great video and very glad you shared this. We all learn from each other, and I'm also glad the situation turned out well.
Wow, thank you for sharing this. I'm glad it turned out ok.
Thank you for sharing this experience! I’ll going through instrument training right now and it definitely helps with learning from others
Dude, you are one of my heroes. It is because of your videos I got back in the saddle after Covid and am currently pursuing all of my ratings and am going to a 141 school 5 days a week. It’s comforting to know that someone like you can present the experience of general aviation from so many angles and admit fault and fear in ways that others on this platform don’t. Thank you for humanizing the experience. I hope to meet and fly with you one day. You’re a real one. May we all never stop learning. Cheers.
Unbelievably valuable to unpack these types of mistakes. Most useful video I've watched on youtube in a while. Need a playlist of similar videos for IFR students.
This is a great example, in my opinion, in being too focused on GPS and not utilizing the "old school" VOR course. Yes having The GPS loaded for the incorrect runway and therefore the incorrect departure led to confusion, but you briefed the approach and mentioned the VOR radio you needed. I think this is a great learning opportunity that I will show my students of what happens when you get expectation bias with a combination of reliance on GPS. If you had simply twisted in the VOR radio and followed the green CDI I think it would have eliminated the concern. Just my two cents. Thanks for the great video!
when you hear about cases like this is normally one where it all goes very wrong taking steps to make your flying safer is incredible
Another great video, that situation would certainly rattle me as well! Sharing things like this help us all get better, and make the NAS safer. Thanks very much for the terrific content!
Thanks Nate- I appreciate your support very much!
What a helpful video. I’m a newly IFR-rated pilot so this is very informative. I’m SO glad this flight ended safely and was able to be a learning experience for all of us. Thank you for being brave and sharing!
Great video, man! So many great lessons learned from this short video. This is a fantastic example of how quickly things can go wrong in the IMC environment and potentially lead to a catastrophic outcome. Add the task saturation of troubleshooting a crucial piece of tech that failed in the most inopportune moment and it’s a potential recipe for disaster. I’m a CFII and definitely will be showing this to my instrument students!
Thank you for sharing this experience. I've taken notes from your video that I intend to apply to my IFR flying. I'm a low hour pilot and this is an eye opener.
I learn the most from other's failures. Thank you for sharing.
You gave a fantastic,life saving SEAT meeting to all. Self Evaluation And Training to others is mark of true professional . Your tribute to aviation safety is commendable! Thank you.
Excellent video. Thank you for taking the time -- and making the effort -- to share.
Thanks for the support!
Made a egg in my throat watching your family so happy afterwards, as pilots we know the impact of our actions. Great job assessing your mishap and making it there safe. God bless!
It's been years since I have piloted a plane but watching this put butterflies in my stomach knowing how that must have felt. Good on you for sharing your mistake so others can learn. It helps other pilots learn not only from the mistake but to see that other competent pilots make mistakes so when they find themselves in a situation to remain calm and know these things happen.
I bet checking that procedure in your GPS is now on your take off checklist.
So awesome of you to share. Such a simple procedure in the most mundane conditions and still a simple oversight in the navigation of the box almost got you into serious trouble. Could happen to any of us. Appreciate you sharing as it highlights the continuous importance of attention to the smallest detail.
This is a great example of the current research that shows no one really is a multitasker and how quickly the human mind can lose track of even critical things. Once the gps got funny on you your attention was on that and you lost some situational awareness and stopped making real time decisions on how best to fly the plane with a broken gps. Everyone talks about not getting behind the airplane but seeing in real time how that actually happens is fascinating and very good lesson for anyone doing anything critical, even driving a car. This is also a great example of why 2 pilot operations, particularly in IMC, are almost always safer. Two instrument rated pilots familiar with the planes particular avionics would have meant two sets of eyes to check everything before even taking off and someone to troubleshoot the GPS while the other's full attention was on flying the plane, maintaining the correct climb rate, and watching where the terrain was in relation to the airplane. Thanks for sharing this. Lots of important and multilayered lessons can be learned from this.
Thank you for sharing this excellent learning opportunity! Always appreciate your content.
Thank you for the support. :)
WWe are happy to hear it went OK and safely, thank you for sharing your mistakes. I’m sure many of us have learned something today. Fly safe!
Takes a real man to come out and post your mistakes. Congrats and I’m glad that everything worked out.
Thank you for this useful learning moment! Definitely something to think about if and when I decide to go for my instrument rating.
Great to see pilots like this being humble enough to share teachable moments! Thanks for sharing
Great vid!! we learn from our mistakes.
Keep it up!
This is a great video. Glad y’all are safe!
thank you.
Sometimes you can't beat good old fashioned instruments. Glad y'all are safe
Awesome video! Hard lesson but great outcome.
Great lesson on confirmation bias. Reading definitions is one thing but seeing how it can happen during routine procedure shows how scary it can be. Love the videos!
Thank you so much for sharing this. Just got my instrument rating a few months ago so it's a great lesson.
Hope you get good use out of the rating. It's the most fun and challenging type of flying.
Thank you for sharing this. Certainly a blood rushing moment, takes a lot to be able to share this with everyone for educational purposes. keep on flying! Cheers
Just so glad 🙏 you were able to arrive safely at your destination, Keep reflecting and analysing your performance, ❤❤
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
Nothing like a "CHECK YOUR SHORTS" moment! Really gets the adrenaline going!