I remember, many years ago I had just painted up my brand new metal Berzerker and got it into battle against my best friend playing his Clanners. Got within range of a Mad Cat, pressed the MASC button for the first time. Snake eyes. And as this was the old rules, both hips were blown out. But he let me re-roll it :p
The point of mask is not to think of it as a modification to movement profile think of it as a way to close the distance when you want to get closer or to get further away to mess with firing range brackets
@@ObiwanNekody ya MASC is actually really good in MW5/MWO as well. The charging meter means you can kick in the afterburners to sprint to a flank, or run to cover with no risk. I would like to see the system overhauled in tabletop. Maybe give it 1 free turn with no roll, then if you use it 2 turns in a row start in with the crit checks.
This does make me wonder how I can min/max BV to make the MOST EXPENSIVE and least useful mech. Because the lower your mech's speed is, the less good MASC is... I'd be fascinated to see the single worst mech possible by BV
@@DarkExcalibur42 I mean it might be the Hussar despite it being very cheap. The Shadow Cat is honestly pretty close. It is ridiculously expensive. Maybe load it up with as many clan ERPPCs as possible without sufficient heat sinks?
@@TheManyVoicesVA Though the ERPPCs get discounted heavily in that case. TSEMP is the more useless one anyway, more expensive, no damage, unlikely effects.
MASC, Ultra ACs that aren't 20s, and Superchargers are on my personal never use list. I can stand XLs, Blue Shield (I am a Quasimodo enjoyer), and other slightly random chance things, except those three, for a simple reason, they're tied way, way too heavily to a mech's performance while being random chance. All the rest can be circumvented by playing and positioning well, or being strategic with their use
@@TheManyVoicesVA I'd be more accepting of that if most mechs weren't either perfectly sinked or undersinked, and having a permanent heat generation from engine hits is really annoying
I basically never have my masc burn out either going every other turn on it except in dire circumstances. It's not great on expensive BV mechs, but it's great on cheaper mechs to make them more survivable, IE Fire Moth, Shadow Cat TC ect.@@TheManyVoicesVA
M.A.S.C is fun! Executioner B is my favorite gambling machine. Not oily it have M.A.S.C. , it also have UAC 20 with coin flip mechanic of dealing 20 or 40 damage. It fun mech!
@@antonyakimov629 lmaoo and also has a small chance of jamming and going "oops I'm useless" I am not a gambler except when it comes to heat. Alpha strike and risk a shit down? I have 6s to hit, let's do it.
Executioner Config F. XL engine, supercharger, and MASC. 10 hexes in a turn in a 95-ton omni. Take out one of the large pulse lasers & replace it with a medium pulse & two Clan flamers or a pair of plasma cannons if you're feeling saucy. That extra heat tends to throw a monkey wrench in their plans to strike back, provided you didn't demolish them with the charge. Did I mention Ghost Bear conquers all?
It sucks that you can only really use it twice before you need to let it rest. The fact that it isn't compatible with TSM is a major downside as compared to a Supercharger. I mean sure having a possible crit in the torse is a major problem. But if you got other equipment in there then it kinda midigats the risk. But hell I'll still rather take the damage and +5 heat (and the repair bill) than having both of your hips cited and basically just crippling your mech into a crawl making you a sitting target.
@@spacewolfblackmane19 hahaha ya having an engine crit is much better than hip/foot/whatever crits. You can still kick with an engine crit, and move just fine(assuming you have reasonable heat sinking)
The Russian Roulette movement system. Works great in Mechwarrior, where the risk is entirely controlled by the pilot and the upgrade is either mech-specific (MWO) or sufficiently costly to not be an auto-include. But as with many things in the tabletop, it's just...really, really bad for no good reason. I get they were trying to avoid the tech becoming an auto-include to bypass standard engine upgrades, but instead of Mech-Nitrous Oxide, it turned into yet-another bomb waiting to go off on a bad roll.
@@atmosdwagon4656 yaa it's a problem... So the best fix Ive seen so far is that MASC starts on a 1 or 2. So you automatically pass for 1 or 2 rounds, then start having risk if you push it for more than that. It also just makes the most sense. Why would anyone use a technology that sometimes fails in the first 10 seconds of use?
Yeah, MASC is usually bad and applied terribly (typically by also adding jump jets and ballooning the BV to the moon). But counterpoint, it's on the Men Shen and the mech is super sweet. For medium cavalry mechs, I think it's usually worth it because it weighs less than an engine upgrade and those designs are using weight efficient equipment anyways.
@@kalixascsi66 counter point: more medium lasers :P I keep meaning to try the Men Shen and never end up including it. I wanna use the double snub version at some point
@@TheManyVoicesVA I mean yeah, cram more medium lasers in, but on a lot of mechs in the later era, I'm learning to appreciate extra speed more than firepower. 3/6/9 weapons have a much harder time getting good modifiers unless you can dictate the engagement distance yourself regardless of how fast your opponent is and most medium laser boats are slow (and that's not counting the number of designs with hardened/reflective armor). But yeah, the MS1-F is sweet as is the Prime, A, C, and D. And even the B, E, and U have uses. Only dud config imo is the G because it has a TSEMP of all things. Having 170+ armor on a 6/9(12) with efficient weapons packages makes for one hell of a striker and if you are using TacOps/Quirks, it's a phenomenal recon mech, BA taxi, and scout hunter.
Big issue with MASC is that the calculations for BV use the max possible movement modifier to determine a BV multiplier for both Offensive *and* Defensive values. And as pointed out, the BV treats MASC as always running. The same issue, incidentally, applies to UAC weapon BV as well This is why I *really* like the optional rule to start MASC rolls on 1+ rather than 3+.
I like MASC because I have found it to be a good situational tool but that BV is painful. It does seem to also balance better on mediums with light engines.
@@77professional ya well they tend to stack on armor and not take expensive weapons. Cavalry mechs will have efficient weapons like medium lasers, not expensive stuff like gauss rifles(unless you're a bloody Shadow Cat...)
Masc gives you the run speed of a bigger engine for a lot less mass than a proper upgrade. I think the BV2 cost is justified on some machines. I find it useful on brawler heavies / fast assaults, the two extra MP will close range brackets a lot faster, especially against a backpedaling opponent... and once you're in optimal range you would stop using it anyway. Any turn when I would run anyway I can engage MASC with high chances it works. With run-and-gun mechs moving just to maintain TMM, now you're paying 100% cost for 66% benefit... plus for a couple tons of extra weaponry versus what you'd be able to with a larger engine.
@@jonbezeau3124 ya it's probably more worth it on bigger machines. One fix I saw was start the MASC checks at 1+. That way you can use it for a couple turns at no risk and at least get guaranteed benefit from that BV investment.
@TheManyVoicesVA it would be funny to balance MASC and Ultra autocannons by making all other advanced tech work on dice rolls... double heatsinks, improved JJs
I really don't know with MASC. It seems like the dice decide if it's hit-or-miss so I can appreciate that it adds a bit of tension... but at the same time, it feels kinda weird to me to rely on the dice. Usually, I avoid MASC for that reason, but I can imagine that it's also really neat to add that little bit of "high risk - high reward" feeling. Especially with cheap light mechs, that become suicide sleds that either do some crazy shit or go out in a blaze of glory.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Yeah. It's fun to go for something like MASC every once in a while to add a little spice I guess and if you're the risk-loving type, you might even get a kick out of using an obscenely expensive mech with MASC in every game, but for the average player, it's not really worth it in general. I don't use MASC much, so I never looked at the impact on BV too much, but the way it is treated makes it _way_ overpriced. MASC would be overpriced even if it didn't crit your legs (and just burned out on a fumbled dice-roll).
Being able to maintain TMM while maneuvering is pretty nice upside and it isn't as bad as spending the tonnage to buy the bigger engine, to say nothing about how the Shadow Cat does get a better TMM with it.
@@135forte 4 TMM is definitely nice, but is it worth it? The Shadow Cat is a skirmisher, and I think it will end up using those jump jets quite a bit... id say take the LPL variant but it's waayyyy more than a timber wolf for less weapons.
@@135forte honestly if im paying that kind of BV Im gonna go for one of the jumpy Timbys probably. Timber wolf S is not *that* much more with almost the same movement profile except no MASC. It has twice the armor and way more close range punch while still hitting from long range with a LPL.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I question why you are trying to close with a Shadow Cat with two cERLLs, you outrange basically any weapon of note and are A tier mobility. The bigger problem is that the Stormcrow Prime is slightly cheaper and much better gunned with the same base speed.
When I play mega mek i enable optional rules to make masc a bit better. Further, I think you gain the benefit of masc more on non-jumping mechs. Mechs that already have jumpjets don't benefit as much from masc, imo.
I only use it on fast mediums or lights. Anything above say 40 tons id go TSM for the extra kick power. edit. It sounds like a balance issue. We hardly use BV , mainly do narrative play. Also my unit made a variant of the Ninja To. The Camel To. ill let myself out .....
@@thorshammer8033 LOL THE CAMEL TO! Does it kick and spit? Ya BV balancing is most common in pickup games and tournaments which is what I usually play.
@@ZacharyChristy-Aronson-wg5ki lol true. I think this is one of the things I'd like to see messed with a little bit if a BV3 came out. Mobility is a little under costwd but a temporary boost is kinda underwhelming for the cost.
MASC is only really worth it for units moving 4/6 or atleast 6/9. In order to get a higher TMM, a 5/8 needs to engage MASC to run in a straight line so if the unit has to account for terrain or turn it can't get a +4. Also, MASC and jump jets will balloon a unit's bv incredibly. As pointed out in the video, units that are fast to begin with get the most out of MASC. Unless the unfortunate player of a Fire Moth flubs the first roll and both hips get critted. Not that I have seen that in the last couple of months. It was fine, the rest of the force associated with the Fire Moth destroyed 3 urbies in the space of 2 turns.
@@TheManyVoicesVA the force we were up against were cappelan . There were going to be urbies. I can't remember if the scenario specifically called for them or someone had an urbanmech lance box they wanted to use.
MASC on on the third turn is about 18% likelihood for anything bad to happen, something to keep in mind if you need to GTFO with an equipped mech As far as battlevalue goes MASC is in my opinion heavily dependent on what mech it is on and if it gives less than two hexes to move it's not worth it, and the heavier the mech the more it takes from aviable weight and slots so not oly is there a battlevalue tax there's also an opportunity cost
I have never had a match with MASC where I don't burn out my own mech when playing it safe. It is a cursed piece of equipment, that for me has a 100% chance to 1/36 kill your mech.
Problem isnt Masc. Its those mechs who cant decide whether they should use masc, or supercharger, or jj, or just fucking all of them! Thats where the inefficiency comes from because bv is multiplied by every movement source and yet you can only benefit either JJ or running. And Supercharger and masc is calculated as if you have the maximum running speed at ALL times. Hence overblown bv values.
Sir, you seem to be quite risk adverse. Fist you told me that my UACs have a chance to randomly stop work if I hold the trigger down too long. Now you're saying that holding down the nitro on my Shadowcat until the legs fall of isn't a good strategy. How an I going to get triple digit damage out of my Charger-C without blowing out it's engine and leg joints?
TSM is the way to go. HTH mechs should always come with it. My group just play for the fun of it. We use the Special Abilities. Anyone notice the melee ones. There is one that gives you -1 to hit with hand held weapon. That will get rid of the +1 on mace. 80 points with 100 ton mech with mace and TSM. Just for fun LOL.
@@Dreadwolf3155yes. Run speed is 2.5x walk if you use both and you roll the failures separately. BANZAI BNZ-X is an example of a mech that has both of them. You can also use them every other turn and that gives you the 2x run with minimal failure chance.
I haven't used, or read the rules to, MASC since BMR 3ed. In that it killed both hip joints on failure... This newer rule seems slightly less punishing. Can it cause ammo to explode on failure? If so, I have a *great* idea for a new in universe sport.
If you are using BV in your games. Shame on you. If you want a fun, far, and still have that challenge factor with a mostly balanced game. Set cost restrictions. As a merc, you are looking at jobs that fill the coffers. The clients only get what they pay for. So if they are only playing 4 million in C-bills with a possible savage payout of 20 to 25 million C-bills, Players are going to bring 20 to 45-ton mechs to the field maybe one 55 to 65-ton mech. As a merc commander, you want to send your most cost-effective mechs. Unless you have skilled veteran pilots who want to use their personal mech and equipment they pay out of their pockets. Money is the ultimate equalizer followed by reputation.
@@gregkun1 So Cbills is really, really not balanced at all. Clans end up having 1 mech because most of their stuff has XL engines. It makes IS designs with XL engines completely unviable as well. Cbills only work in campaigns. You can't have a normal format with Cbills outside of 3025. Even then some mechs end up way overcosted like the Charger due to massive engines. No, BV2 is definitely the best we have, even if it's flawed.
BV is extrinsic to the setting and precludes most scenarios and while it might change which mechs suck, it doesn't fix the problem and brings others. If you want a fair game that is actually in some way related to the setting use the RATs. Point balancing is for soulless skirmish games.
@@nathanbrown8680 I disagree. You can absolutely have a fair game that is still related to the setting with BV balanced games. Limit mechs by MUL and era. Include formations, hell take only mechs that are listed in a specific merc company's roster. There's so many ways to stay thematic while still maintaining balance. The likelihood of having a fair game with RATs is next to nonexistent. Inevitably someone is gonna roll a Vulcan while the other guy will get a Griffin or Wolverine or something way more powerful.
Think my only MASC mech left after 3070 is my custom Solaris build as it uses both MASC and Supercharger together. . . and half a dozen other questionable choices.
See that is when its kinda worth it lol. Now you're paying some major BV for the speed boost, but you can either alternate uses to keep it up all the time, or pull some INSANE speed.
I remember, many years ago I had just painted up my brand new metal Berzerker and got it into battle against my best friend playing his Clanners. Got within range of a Mad Cat, pressed the MASC button for the first time. Snake eyes. And as this was the old rules, both hips were blown out. But he let me re-roll it :p
@@sharlin648 Lol! "I'm giving you edge because I have clan LPLs."
Them do be the breaks. I have seen first hand that MASC is cursed.
I do believe the exact same happened with the exact same mech with me. I buried my dice with a hammer after that occasion
ROFL.
The point of mask is not to think of it as a modification to movement profile think of it as a way to close the distance when you want to get closer or to get further away to mess with firing range brackets
@@Veretax 100% that's what it's for. Or getting a speedy turn to run behind someone or something.
My favorite mech with MASC is the Shadowcat, because of fond memories of MW4: Vengeance.
I hate MASC a lot in tabletop.
@@ObiwanNekody ya MASC is actually really good in MW5/MWO as well. The charging meter means you can kick in the afterburners to sprint to a flank, or run to cover with no risk. I would like to see the system overhauled in tabletop. Maybe give it 1 free turn with no roll, then if you use it 2 turns in a row start in with the crit checks.
I don't mind MASC. It's never betrayed me like Superchargers have...
@@WolfHreda when MASC betrays you though... the mech is in the dirt for the game lol. 5 heat isnt that bad comparitivelt.
This does make me wonder how I can min/max BV to make the MOST EXPENSIVE and least useful mech. Because the lower your mech's speed is, the less good MASC is... I'd be fascinated to see the single worst mech possible by BV
@@DarkExcalibur42 I mean it might be the Hussar despite it being very cheap. The Shadow Cat is honestly pretty close. It is ridiculously expensive.
Maybe load it up with as many clan ERPPCs as possible without sufficient heat sinks?
@@DarkExcalibur42 make sure to max your rear torso armor!
Gausszilla with masc. The Annihilator is already a turret that moves at the speed of smell.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Though the ERPPCs get discounted heavily in that case. TSEMP is the more useless one anyway, more expensive, no damage, unlikely effects.
I believe that would be the 100 ton Berserker I don't remember which variant
MASC, Ultra ACs that aren't 20s, and Superchargers are on my personal never use list. I can stand XLs, Blue Shield (I am a Quasimodo enjoyer), and other slightly random chance things, except those three, for a simple reason, they're tied way, way too heavily to a mech's performance while being random chance. All the rest can be circumvented by playing and positioning well, or being strategic with their use
@@argokarrus2731 good callouts. I do think superchargers are better. They only cause an engine crit on a failure, not what amounts to a dead mech.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I'd be more accepting of that if most mechs weren't either perfectly sinked or undersinked, and having a permanent heat generation from engine hits is really annoying
never actually had MASC burn out on me but it always scared the heck out of me.
@@Dreadwolf3155 maybe you should buy a lottery ticket :P do you ever use it 2 turns in a row?
I basically never have my masc burn out either going every other turn on it except in dire circumstances. It's not great on expensive BV mechs, but it's great on cheaper mechs to make them more survivable, IE Fire Moth, Shadow Cat TC ect.@@TheManyVoicesVA
I enjoy all of The Many Voices videos 🎉🎉😊
@@SpiritWolf1966 Spiritwolfff! Thanks homie
M.A.S.C is fun!
Executioner B is my favorite gambling machine. Not oily it have M.A.S.C. , it also have UAC 20 with coin flip mechanic of dealing 20 or 40 damage. It fun mech!
@@antonyakimov629 lmaoo and also has a small chance of jamming and going "oops I'm useless"
I am not a gambler except when it comes to heat. Alpha strike and risk a shit down? I have 6s to hit, let's do it.
Executioner Config F. XL engine, supercharger, and MASC. 10 hexes in a turn in a 95-ton omni. Take out one of the large pulse lasers & replace it with a medium pulse & two Clan flamers or a pair of plasma cannons if you're feeling saucy. That extra heat tends to throw a monkey wrench in their plans to strike back, provided you didn't demolish them with the charge.
Did I mention Ghost Bear conquers all?
It sucks that you can only really use it twice before you need to let it rest. The fact that it isn't compatible with TSM is a major downside as compared to a Supercharger. I mean sure having a possible crit in the torse is a major problem. But if you got other equipment in there then it kinda midigats the risk. But hell I'll still rather take the damage and +5 heat (and the repair bill) than having both of your hips cited and basically just crippling your mech into a crawl making you a sitting target.
@@spacewolfblackmane19 hahaha ya having an engine crit is much better than hip/foot/whatever crits. You can still kick with an engine crit, and move just fine(assuming you have reasonable heat sinking)
@@TheManyVoicesVA as the saying goes battletechs physics are weird
The Russian Roulette movement system. Works great in Mechwarrior, where the risk is entirely controlled by the pilot and the upgrade is either mech-specific (MWO) or sufficiently costly to not be an auto-include.
But as with many things in the tabletop, it's just...really, really bad for no good reason. I get they were trying to avoid the tech becoming an auto-include to bypass standard engine upgrades, but instead of Mech-Nitrous Oxide, it turned into yet-another bomb waiting to go off on a bad roll.
@@atmosdwagon4656 yaa it's a problem... So the best fix Ive seen so far is that MASC starts on a 1 or 2. So you automatically pass for 1 or 2 rounds, then start having risk if you push it for more than that. It also just makes the most sense. Why would anyone use a technology that sometimes fails in the first 10 seconds of use?
Yeah, MASC is usually bad and applied terribly (typically by also adding jump jets and ballooning the BV to the moon). But counterpoint, it's on the Men Shen and the mech is super sweet. For medium cavalry mechs, I think it's usually worth it because it weighs less than an engine upgrade and those designs are using weight efficient equipment anyways.
@@kalixascsi66 counter point: more medium lasers :P
I keep meaning to try the Men Shen and never end up including it. I wanna use the double snub version at some point
@@TheManyVoicesVA I mean yeah, cram more medium lasers in, but on a lot of mechs in the later era, I'm learning to appreciate extra speed more than firepower. 3/6/9 weapons have a much harder time getting good modifiers unless you can dictate the engagement distance yourself regardless of how fast your opponent is and most medium laser boats are slow (and that's not counting the number of designs with hardened/reflective armor).
But yeah, the MS1-F is sweet as is the Prime, A, C, and D. And even the B, E, and U have uses. Only dud config imo is the G because it has a TSEMP of all things. Having 170+ armor on a 6/9(12) with efficient weapons packages makes for one hell of a striker and if you are using TacOps/Quirks, it's a phenomenal recon mech, BA taxi, and scout hunter.
Big issue with MASC is that the calculations for BV use the max possible movement modifier to determine a BV multiplier for both Offensive *and* Defensive values. And as pointed out, the BV treats MASC as always running. The same issue, incidentally, applies to UAC weapon BV as well
This is why I *really* like the optional rule to start MASC rolls on 1+ rather than 3+.
I think that would be more reasonable. That way you can use it for a couple turns in a row without major risk.
It's one of the main issues with BV2 and it's known by the devs, BV2.5 was rumored but way on the backlog
@@Andrewlik tbh CGL will do a bad job so Idk if I even want them to do a BV3
Black Lanner is one of my go to mechs, just use MASC sparingly and tactically.
@@Prich319 lol it's so expensive tho! Id rather just not have MASC on most mechs tbh
I like MASC because I have found it to be a good situational tool but that BV is painful. It does seem to also balance better on mediums with light engines.
@@77professional ya well they tend to stack on armor and not take expensive weapons. Cavalry mechs will have efficient weapons like medium lasers, not expensive stuff like gauss rifles(unless you're a bloody Shadow Cat...)
Masc gives you the run speed of a bigger engine for a lot less mass than a proper upgrade. I think the BV2 cost is justified on some machines.
I find it useful on brawler heavies / fast assaults, the two extra MP will close range brackets a lot faster, especially against a backpedaling opponent... and once you're in optimal range you would stop using it anyway. Any turn when I would run anyway I can engage MASC with high chances it works.
With run-and-gun mechs moving just to maintain TMM, now you're paying 100% cost for 66% benefit... plus for a couple tons of extra weaponry versus what you'd be able to with a larger engine.
@@jonbezeau3124 ya it's probably more worth it on bigger machines. One fix I saw was start the MASC checks at 1+. That way you can use it for a couple turns at no risk and at least get guaranteed benefit from that BV investment.
@TheManyVoicesVA it would be funny to balance MASC and Ultra autocannons by making all other advanced tech work on dice rolls... double heatsinks, improved JJs
@jonbezeau3124 lol there are rules for that in some cases. There's a rule where your DHS can degrade for example.
I really don't know with MASC. It seems like the dice decide if it's hit-or-miss so I can appreciate that it adds a bit of tension... but at the same time, it feels kinda weird to me to rely on the dice.
Usually, I avoid MASC for that reason, but I can imagine that it's also really neat to add that little bit of "high risk - high reward" feeling. Especially with cheap light mechs, that become suicide sleds that either do some crazy shit or go out in a blaze of glory.
@@h.a.9880 yaaa randomness is fun but consistency wins games
@@TheManyVoicesVA Yeah. It's fun to go for something like MASC every once in a while to add a little spice I guess and if you're the risk-loving type, you might even get a kick out of using an obscenely expensive mech with MASC in every game, but for the average player, it's not really worth it in general.
I don't use MASC much, so I never looked at the impact on BV too much, but the way it is treated makes it _way_ overpriced.
MASC would be overpriced even if it didn't crit your legs (and just burned out on a fumbled dice-roll).
In order to enjoy MASC you have to reject anecdotes and embrace data. Once you do, MASC can be an incredible tool.
@@FoxxofNod I have the data of seeing people crit their feet off and stuff lol :P
I know it's anecdotal but man, the gear just seems cursed.
Being able to maintain TMM while maneuvering is pretty nice upside and it isn't as bad as spending the tonnage to buy the bigger engine, to say nothing about how the Shadow Cat does get a better TMM with it.
@@135forte 4 TMM is definitely nice, but is it worth it? The Shadow Cat is a skirmisher, and I think it will end up using those jump jets quite a bit... id say take the LPL variant but it's waayyyy more than a timber wolf for less weapons.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I'm a big fan of the A. It's a bit pricey, but it *will* get those guns where and when you need them.
@@135forte honestly if im paying that kind of BV Im gonna go for one of the jumpy Timbys probably.
Timber wolf S is not *that* much more with almost the same movement profile except no MASC. It has twice the armor and way more close range punch while still hitting from long range with a LPL.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I question why you are trying to close with a Shadow Cat with two cERLLs, you outrange basically any weapon of note and are A tier mobility.
The bigger problem is that the Stormcrow Prime is slightly cheaper and much better gunned with the same base speed.
When I play mega mek i enable optional rules to make masc a bit better. Further, I think you gain the benefit of masc more on non-jumping mechs. Mechs that already have jumpjets don't benefit as much from masc, imo.
@@geraldduncan1552 it could be argued that you can use JJs when MASC is off, but that's hard to balance in practice.
I only use it on fast mediums or lights. Anything above say 40 tons id go TSM for the extra kick power.
edit. It sounds like a balance issue. We hardly use BV , mainly do narrative play. Also my unit made a variant of the Ninja To. The Camel To.
ill let myself out .....
@@thorshammer8033 LOL THE CAMEL TO! Does it kick and spit?
Ya BV balancing is most common in pickup games and tournaments which is what I usually play.
Yep. Point buy systems are always busted in some way.
@@ZacharyChristy-Aronson-wg5ki lol true. I think this is one of the things I'd like to see messed with a little bit if a BV3 came out. Mobility is a little under costwd but a temporary boost is kinda underwhelming for the cost.
MASC is only really worth it for units moving 4/6 or atleast 6/9. In order to get a higher TMM, a 5/8 needs to engage MASC to run in a straight line so if the unit has to account for terrain or turn it can't get a +4. Also, MASC and jump jets will balloon a unit's bv incredibly. As pointed out in the video, units that are fast to begin with get the most out of MASC. Unless the unfortunate player of a Fire Moth flubs the first roll and both hips get critted. Not that I have seen that in the last couple of months. It was fine, the rest of the force associated with the Fire Moth destroyed 3 urbies in the space of 2 turns.
@@Metal_Carnage heh. Why were you using urbies?! Lol
@@TheManyVoicesVA the force we were up against were cappelan . There were going to be urbies. I can't remember if the scenario specifically called for them or someone had an urbanmech lance box they wanted to use.
MASC on on the third turn is about 18% likelihood for anything bad to happen, something to keep in mind if you need to GTFO with an equipped mech
As far as battlevalue goes MASC is in my opinion heavily dependent on what mech it is on and if it gives less than two hexes to move it's not worth it, and the heavier the mech the more it takes from aviable weight and slots so not oly is there a battlevalue tax there's also an opportunity cost
@@peigeot9906 that is true. Though with it weighing more, technically it makes the mech cheaper since you can't jam as much stuff in there lol.
Best M.A.S.C. tactic is to use a supercharger or TSM.
@@EdmondHiggins hahahaha 100%. They are more consistent. I will say TSM comes with significsnt downsides though. Super vulnerable to heat weapons.
The dice ARE cruel, but not to my most frequent opponent (who uses Fire Moths and Shadow Cats a lot). He has never failed a MASC roll 🙄
@@claytonhollowell4488 Well more power to him tbh. The Shadow Cat is pretty much a BV handicap lol.
Not me with the PRC-3N painted blue 😶
@@calebharris292 heh it's basically the Dasher's cousin. It seems pretty decent.
I have never had a match with MASC where I don't burn out my own mech when playing it safe. It is a cursed piece of equipment, that for me has a 100% chance to 1/36 kill your mech.
@@AlexDenton0451 hahahaha. Always a hip crit too :/
Problem isnt Masc. Its those mechs who cant decide whether they should use masc, or supercharger, or jj, or just fucking all of them! Thats where the inefficiency comes from because bv is multiplied by every movement source and yet you can only benefit either JJ or running. And Supercharger and masc is calculated as if you have the maximum running speed at ALL times. Hence overblown bv values.
@@fistan5447 yep. It ends up being a huge BV tax. Id like to see a discount on the movement bonus from MASC and superchargers.
@@TheManyVoicesVA unfortunately that wont happen unless there's BV3.0. Fortunately however, when that happens, they already know of the problem.
Sir, you seem to be quite risk adverse. Fist you told me that my UACs have a chance to randomly stop work if I hold the trigger down too long. Now you're saying that holding down the nitro on my Shadowcat until the legs fall of isn't a good strategy. How an I going to get triple digit damage out of my Charger-C without blowing out it's engine and leg joints?
@@jamesc.7216 you just have to only use it for 1 turn lol. Risk is bad. Consistency is good :)
TSM is the way to go. HTH mechs should always come with it. My group just play for the fun of it. We use the Special Abilities. Anyone notice the melee ones. There is one that gives you -1 to hit with hand held weapon. That will get rid of the +1 on mace. 80 points with 100 ton mech with mace and TSM. Just for fun LOL.
@@MOrab46019 oof. That is nasty.
@@TheManyVoicesVA It just for fun. We mix IS tech with Clan. Me as GM allows me to make my own mechs to try. Min max stuff
What about Triple Strength Myomer?
@@Balevolt th-cam.com/video/qpMJGmCJ1RM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=olC0NhBHILHEPdp2
I have a video about it! It's good but it's vulnerable to heat weapons.
Superchargers are great tho.
(not for BV calculations)
not yet gotten to play with supercharger. can you use it AND MASC?
@@Dreadwolf3155yes. Run speed is 2.5x walk if you use both and you roll the failures separately.
BANZAI BNZ-X is an example of a mech that has both of them.
You can also use them every other turn and that gives you the 2x run with minimal failure chance.
@@ObiwanNekody haha ya. The BV is still astronomical. Supercharger is also ludicrously pricey. Like in the same realm as XL engines.
@@TheManyVoicesVA In many cases with a standard engine it's actually cheaper (CBills) to upgrade the engine than add a supercharger IIRC
I haven't used, or read the rules to, MASC since BMR 3ed. In that it killed both hip joints on failure... This newer rule seems slightly less punishing.
Can it cause ammo to explode on failure? If so, I have a *great* idea for a new in universe sport.
@@ObiwanNekody from what I have read, yes it can. And jump jets as well.
MASC is meh , I hardly use it . TSM is where it's at
@@mathewkelly9968 beeg melee damage. TSM is really vulnerable to heat weapons though. Inferno SRMs make the spicy boi sad.
Dont you go trashing my baby
@@negatorxx 2 late Shadow cat is awful lol. 2000 BV for a glorified phoenix hawk with a gauss rifle.
If you are using BV in your games. Shame on you. If you want a fun, far, and still have that challenge factor with a mostly balanced game. Set cost restrictions. As a merc, you are looking at jobs that fill the coffers. The clients only get what they pay for. So if they are only playing 4 million in C-bills with a possible savage payout of 20 to 25 million C-bills, Players are going to bring 20 to 45-ton mechs to the field maybe one 55 to 65-ton mech. As a merc commander, you want to send your most cost-effective mechs. Unless you have skilled veteran pilots who want to use their personal mech and equipment they pay out of their pockets. Money is the ultimate equalizer followed by reputation.
@@gregkun1 So Cbills is really, really not balanced at all. Clans end up having 1 mech because most of their stuff has XL engines. It makes IS designs with XL engines completely unviable as well.
Cbills only work in campaigns. You can't have a normal format with Cbills outside of 3025. Even then some mechs end up way overcosted like the Charger due to massive engines. No, BV2 is definitely the best we have, even if it's flawed.
BV is extrinsic to the setting and precludes most scenarios and while it might change which mechs suck, it doesn't fix the problem and brings others.
If you want a fair game that is actually in some way related to the setting use the RATs. Point balancing is for soulless skirmish games.
@@nathanbrown8680 I disagree. You can absolutely have a fair game that is still related to the setting with BV balanced games. Limit mechs by MUL and era. Include formations, hell take only mechs that are listed in a specific merc company's roster. There's so many ways to stay thematic while still maintaining balance.
The likelihood of having a fair game with RATs is next to nonexistent. Inevitably someone is gonna roll a Vulcan while the other guy will get a Griffin or Wolverine or something way more powerful.
Think my only MASC mech left after 3070 is my custom Solaris build as it uses both MASC and Supercharger together. . . and half a dozen other questionable choices.
See that is when its kinda worth it lol. Now you're paying some major BV for the speed boost, but you can either alternate uses to keep it up all the time, or pull some INSANE speed.