You probably shoulda mentioned the lack of one two range. For me at least that's why I don't use them especially in RD which is such a enemy phase heavy game not being able to counterattack at 2 range is honestly imo even worser than having to deal with the gauge. Also I brought Lethe to tower once I suggest everyone tries bringing a laguz to tower once it's fun seeing a cat destroy a dragon like x3 their size.
I... Cannot believe that I'm near the end of my radiant dawn playthrough and have only just realised I can use Olivi grass WHILE my unit is transformed 🤯
Gotta disagree on the claim that laguz are weaker in PoR than RD. I always found the PoR laguz to feel different to your other units, and can do things you normally can't. Mordecai is always one of my top team members because of his high move, smite, strong attacks, and really good defence. Lethe i tried using multiple times, but she just can never keep up. Ranulf and Muarim are just generally super solid. The bigger issue for me is the gauge though. In PoR i always felt like it recharged pretty quickly and lasted for quite a while, even allowing them to defend tiles untransformed. In RD cats are practically unuseable because of their gauges. Even if you use an olivi grass, it won't last you long. You get so many units, many of which are straight up better than many of your laguz. And the fact that laguz have a bugged exp curve on hard mode doesn't help. One thing i do wanna mention is that Halfshift is seriously underrated. Many people don't quite understand how it works, and simply don't use it. You essentially can permanently transform akin to a demi band, but only get half the transformation bonuses. However for many units, this is still more than enough to be useful. And the best part? You can still just transform normally to get the full stats if you want to. RD does have some very strong laguz among the hordes of ultra teletubbies. Volug in particular is probably the best non royal in the game, Janaff and Ulki are busted. And the fact stat boosters essentially give them double the stats is nice too.
Piggybacking off this, it's crucial to remember that Olivi Grass essentially nullifies the bonus Cats get to their gauge when untransformed. The important component is how much they lose when transformed, and Cats' gauges deplete incredibly quickly.
I had a draft race where Lethe was my carry and it actually ending up working really well and I won, she really can carry especially since you already have an incentive to clear quickly
My biggest problem with Laguz is the lack of 1-2 range. Both POR and RD are heavily enemy phase games and them not having that ability makes them very difficult to use. I also feel that there will always be a better unit to fill that slot. Yes in POR they can be used as transitional units however the enemies are very weak even on hard so that type of unit really isnt that necessary. In RD yes someone like Moredcai can be used but in all the maps he is in Haar is also there, and all of his part 3 maps have Gatrie as well. Both of these units are similar in bulk while javing no guage and access to 1-2 range. Same for Janaff and Ulki. Haar and Jill will both be better than them since they both have 1-2 range.
You make a good point, and I think you are right that laguz are underestimated, especially in fe10. But I want to bring up a Counterpoint to these kind of theory crafting stat based discussions: mental load. Just like how Ewan doesn't "need" to be a summoner, it is a choice that lowers mental load giving you Kamikaze units. Likewise, a unit without a gauge means I never have to think about the gauge.
@@iamthehobo this is true. The management process of the gauge may be even to dissuade people , even if it’s relatively forgiving. The extra step is indeed not doing them any favors!
Something i think people forget about bringing laguz to the tower is there are 3 lagus gems with 5 uses given either at or right before the tower so you dont have to worry about the gauge basically giving you more royals
POR laguz are a little awkward to use because they don't get good exp gains and their gauge is automatic so you often get bad timed transformations. But once you get a demi band, basically every laguz even with the demi band debuff becomes a top tier unit. In radiant dawn the laguz basically range from either being a trash tier unit like lyre and kyza, or basically game breaking like maurime or any royal. Unfortunately in radiant dawn most of the laguz suffer badly from poor availability
Im pretty sure the casual player (i.e. me) prefer beorc characters bc we see actual growth via the promotion tiers in both stats and appearance. I remember being super excited to see the 3rd tier looks in Radiant Dawn after playing Path of Radiance. 😅
I think the biggest issue with them is that I just don't find them enjoyable to play. There's no 1-2 range. No weapon triangle. No effective weapon bonuses. No balancing weapons based off of accuracy, power, range, durability, etc. No trading weapons around with partners. No feeling of suddenly getting better on promotion or gaining weapon rank to make use of a fancy new toy. Here's a unit. This is their powerful 1 range attack. Also, sometimes they're near useless. So the thought process goes like this: 1. This character is boring, and has a mechanic that isn't fun. 2. I don't enjoy using this character. 3. Because I don't enjoy using this character, so I will not use this character. 4. Since I'm not using this character, they must be bad. Point 4 is the fallacy. I'm content to just stop at point 3. That means I'm playing sub-optimally, and I'm fine with that.
This is an amazing video, but you forgot to Mention that Mordecai has Smite, which helps him move foot units high distances. Also Lethe's instant transformation in PoR is ridiculously good on the star when you have her, as it makes her a good unit to start a map, then pull back when you don't need anymore. Also Laguz weapons are free and 1 range, but highly reliable to hit as well
I personally like the Laguz and they offer a powerful fighting option for players willing to put up with their different playstyle. There is one point in their favour that you forgot to mention - Laguz get double stats from stat boosters (with the exception being HP.) I've brought Lyre to the Tower and she was able to become the strongest fighter in my squad, since every Energy Drop was +4 strength. Any lucky level up and you get will get +2 in that stat (again, except HP), and like any other units, if you reach a stat cap, it becomes very easy to abuse bonus EXP to rig the stats you might be missing (because in Radiant Dawn you ALWAYS get a level up in three stats if you're able. So if your Lyre caps Speed, Skill and HP? Now she'll be getting three other stats instead guaranteed.) Now imagine what you can do with other Laguz that are not terrible like Lyre. So Laguz don't really fall off if you're willing to ensure it in case the level ups don't favor them. Of course, that said, I don't think Laguz are necessarily that good though. They can be very powerful units to deal with tough situations and strong enemies, but they are essentially just stat sticks that offer no versatility. Using Radiant Dawn Mia as a comparison, I would still choose Mia over Ranulf, because Mia has access to 1-2 range (and while Wind Edges are bad on most units, Mia actually has the skill to hit it consistently with high hit rates. Other more powerful 1-2 range swords will be even better.), and like other units, Mia's low strength can be easily fixed with bonus EXP level ups, even outside of forged weapons. Additionally, Mia becomes a very evasive unit that becomes nigh untouchable, and with the right combination of skills (Adept especially, and she comes with Vantage for free, which can sometimes result in her triggering Adept for extra attacks as she's going first with Vantage; and if you give her Cancel or Disarm, the enemy just lost their attack. Nevermind if she crits. But all she really needs is adept, so the rest is extra. And you should give her Adept if you're using her, because she's one of the best units that can make use of it - and fortunately, Soren comes with it if you want it that early!) she becomes the type of unit that you just throw into a blob of enemies and watch her kill everything on enemy phase. She can also kill bosses very easily too when she starts to ramp up. It does take some investment, but it's nothing too crazy, and she'll quickly become one of the best units in one's army, and at that point, she's set for the whole game. And of course, she doesn't have to deal with the cat gauge, which is a big deal, because if I send Ranulf into a group of enemies, not only will he be unable to counterattack some of them (due to the lack of 1-2 range weaponry), even if he doesn't attack back, he still loses just as much gauge; and there are a quite a few of 1-2 range enemies in Tellius. If enough enemies attack him on enemy phase, he will transform, and suddenly, any enemy will be able to kill. So you always need to be careful to make sure you won't face more rounds of combat than it can take, and even if you it doesn't run out, you're probably still using Olivi Grass in that turn, when you could be doing other actions, like attacking a priority target, using Shove or Rescue, among other situational actions; the gauge, especially a cat's, really hurts, and Mia does not have this problem. Mia can fight whoever she wants for as long as she wants, and also has the ability to use other actions without having to manage a volatile gauge. The point is: Laguz are stat sticks that are very limited in what they can do, while Beorc are very versatile, while still being better in multiple combat scenarios - the investment is well worth it in the long run, especially in a such a long game like Radiant Dawn. And lastly, Ranulf's lesser availability is also a factor, and other Laguz share this availability problem. Mia is with the Greil Mercenaries the moment you get them, and her not having access to forges in her first two chapters is not too bad keeping in mind how many more chapters you get to use her in. So while Ranulf has higher stats, it still doesn't mean he'll perform better in an overall playthrough. Ultimately though, you could also just use both Mia and Ranulf together, because if you're comfortable enough with Radiant Dawn's maps and mechanics, you can make any team combination work. But if I had to choose one, I'd go for Mia because she offers much more than just high stats (but she can quickly ramp up to the point of killing everything in sight anyways, so low stats aren't much of a problem either.) Radiant Dawn also gives you plenty of money to work with, and while the Greil Mercenaries suffer at first from poor finances, they are strong enough at base to where this is not much of an issue. When it comes to skill investment, she's one of the best users of Adept, and even then, there are multiple Adepts that you can pass around (at least 3 if I recall.) And she comes with Vantage for free, whicch As for Path of Radiance, Laguz have less problem with their gauge, honestly. Lethe is a staple in many of my runs, and Janaff is pretty solid too. The lack of 1-2 range hurts them even more in this game, because Path of Radiance has a LOT of 1-2 range enemies. Still, Laguz can be very solid to anyone using them, and like you said, it saves you money since you don't need to invest much on them; meaning that you can use that money on someone else. This is why, in spite of their cons, I still like Laguz units in both games, because they give the player options on how to approach problems - from the battlefield to the economy! The player doesn't have to use them, but the option is there, and it has its merits. Unfortunately, most people just don't find it fun to manage the gauges and play with a unit that is so limited in what they can do beyond having high stats. But I agree, Laguz need more love! Lyre is not that hard to make good. It's hilarious to see her kill dragons at the Tower!
@@DreamWorldWitch I agree the gauge managing is usually the issue people find frustrating, but I think statistically and power-wise, they’re not that much below (and some are actually on par or above) with many other units deemed “better”. I’ve made a whole video about why Mia is more a case of favoritism over reliable investment, and that’s not to say she’s bad. She’s not. She’s good. She scales super well. But the reliance on 1-2 range in a game filled with armor knights and cavs hitting mostly at 1 range, with the weakest enemy mages to date, really puts into question HOW much do you need 1-2 in RD? Again, not saying that Mia is bad. But the argument of “just give her adept” when a ton of other units (including ranulf) who can also use it is very akin to the mentality of “just give Jill every stat booster and skill and she’ll be great.” Yeah, sure, they will, and perhaps their endgame performance is better due to class and stat allocation, but it doesn’t make the portions of the game in which they’re trying to reach that endgame easier. Just more of the same. Anyways thanks for the long and thought out response! Love these discussions!
I feel like I'm on a different planet discussing unit viability on these games. Lethe and Mordecai are both very good. Bring Titania and a promoted Oscar with them and it's like having up to 4 Titanias on the map. They can also shove your other units around during their downtime, especially Mordecai. Also, Lethe is just there when you need her the most, the beginning of the map when there are the most enemies. By the time she loses her cat form you don't really need her anymore. Don't even get me started on Volug in RD. He has earth affinity and amazing speed. Pair him with Zihark and they'll trivialize the hardest chapters in the game together. Volug has the added bonus of being able to take some hits if he gets a streak of bad luck. He's A+ tier at minimum, but I would give him A tier.
@@braveravier2565 I think he’s one if the best hands down, but I think a lot of people know how good he is too. So decided to focus more on the ones people don’t seem to rate as highly
I honestly don't like him as much. Maybe it's because on Part I you get used to him steamrolling everything and then on Part III he doesn't do anything at all if you halfshift. That's normally such a turnoff for me that I end up not liking him at all afterwards
PoR laguz are pretty good from what I remember, you get strong options like lethe and mordecai early on and Muarim is really strong. The demi band penalties aren't too severe and the don't lose too much gauge from combat. I remember taking lethe all the way to endgame the first time playing. RD is different. Mord and lethe are still strong in part 2, but when you get to part 3 by the time they come back you'd already been working with the grail mercs for 5 chapters who are strong enough to finish the chapters without any problems so why fix what ain't broke. They also don't seem to get much exp which also makes it hard to me to want to use them a lot. Having to deal with the gauge also adds another layer of complexity that i don't want to deal with, "Do they have the grass or stones, whats their gauge, can I attack with the unit without having to worry that he shifts out and becomes a punching bag." You gave a good example of mordecai choking the point but what about maps that this does not apply, i need to take out that enemy or someone is going to die, but if I attack my laguz is going to shift out and become useless and then has to go in the corner smoking weed for 2 turns. It also feels like it goes down much more compared to PoR. Comparing combat utility compared to other units, while they are very powerful while transformed stat wise, other units have edges that make them more attractive such canto, which cats and tigers lack ,any weapon effectiveness like bows, hammers , crit boosting weapons, brave weapons, or any 1-2 weapons which hurts them badly as the gauge still goes down when dodging ranged attacks. I would say that RD laguz are pretty strong such as the ones listed in your video, people can definably make them work. However, most aren't strong enough that would make most players want to deal with the laguz gauge when more reliable and flexible options exist.
Only played POR once a long time ago. I just recently found a copy and now i think i will try using the laguz because i definitely remember not using them as a kid
On my last playthrough of RD, i was going to try and use Lyre. But i gave up after looking her stats for a little bit ( she's really really underwhelming oh god. But i love her design so i really wanted to use her ). So i didn't try until i got to part IV. She was on the Hawk's army, alongside Elincia ( with Mercy ). I think i gave her blossom too since she was getting free exp anyway She quickly became a monster Like, she maxed out Spd and Skill and had a pretty good Atk Her and Ranulf where doing really good up to the point i got to the tower, but even so i didn't bring any of them in. Every one of the Beorc units i had invested into where reaaally good too. And even if i dont care about the laguz gauge as much, i still dont like dealing with it since i am a big player phase guy Units like Mia, Shinnon, Rolf, Nephenee and Brom made for way bettee contestants when it came down to those 11 spaces lol But yeah, if i play the game again i might try to use her again from the start, maybe give her all the good stat boosters instead of giving them to Nephenee ( which btw had all her stats maxed out - not just from boosters since i never hoard those for too much - at the end of the game :D )
I'm just now playing Path of Radiance for the first time, and I saw the laguz as functioning similar to Myrrh in Sacred Stones, a limited-use delete button. I'm only playing Normal, which may be why they work that way, but I am disappointed in their lack of EXP gains. I like watching numbers go up. Muarim is the only one I'm regularly using because he comes with the Demi-band and has the highest stats to use it with. If anything, I thought people would consider laguz too strong because a lot of them, tigers especially, can tank better than my Brom or Gatrie did, even untransformed. Then, they transform faster. I figured that's how they were meant to be used.
I think the Laguz are designed to be filler units that are made to be used when the player thinks they’ll be useful. From where the Tellius games stand in the series, Laguz are pretty much the only class similar to Fa and Tiki who are also strong one off units with some sort of condition.
From the little experience I had on PoR, muarim and lethe were quite solid. As usual, the annoying part is worrying about their transformation (or just give the demi band)
Laguz popularity is set in stone because people just don't enjoy playing the gauge. Unfun = bad unit. Same reason people will defend units that are argued to be bad because of the effort it takes to make them good, making them good is fun.
I really think they should be able to use weapons when not transformed. Them not being able to just feels extremely bad and makes people not want to use them. Lethe I never use but the other two in PoR I use as Smite bots. Game just is not hard enough to need to use a unit that requires thought. Just give bexp to Marcia or Jill and win.
@FireEmbros it is why even though I really like the story, worldbuilding, and characters I just do not like playing PoR. I like to play with a large team and like to use plot relevant characters for the story. PoR just doesn't really support that and feels bad to play if you don't just juggernaut as it is extremely slow.
Do not be fooled by Ranulfs big stats in RD, managing cat gauge is fate far worse than death, especially when having to deal with hordes of weak enemies and/or 2 range and RD laguz are almost useless in human form with pitiful stats while in PR they can still block tiles with decent defenses early to mid game
@@matiastorres2553 people talk a lot about 1-2 range, but the vast majority of enemies in Rd have 1 range weapons. There’s some that have javelins but very rarely, and some mages. The mages are so weak, they can’t hit the Laguz most of the time and are cleaned up on PP just as easily. I mean, not being able to retaliate can be an issue, sure, but it’s way overblown in this case. Por does have a lot of 1-2 range though, have to admit.
This is furry propaganda, and I'm here for it! I'll admit the laguz are harder to use mainly because, lacking 1-2 range means their enemy phase is lacking, specially in RD where you even have wind swords. And their player phase is spent using grass instead of initiating combat. If all laguz had formshift, or didn't need to transform, they'd easily be the best units. Sadly, the equivalent of the Demi band is way less effective in this game :(
The fundamental issue with ANIMAL PEOPLE is that they are not fully controllable. You want damage NOW and when you enemy phase you want to be able to absorb combats and return damage. Animal people can transform after x amount of combats on EP and it takes them forever to organically transform. It also doesn't help that most of them are villagers for several turns offering little value when "hanging out". It would be one thing if they had their own items to use on dead turns, or if they transformed it lasted for x amount of turns instead of x amount of combats. The dancing ones are great and there are some units that are good but compared to the best units in either game they are in, they are largely mid.
Great video. But heres something you're probably forgetting. Player bais. I've, personally, always been a growths over bases player. You say to treat most of the laguz as prepromotes? Well, to me, prepromotes immediately go to the bench, no discussion outside of a very select few. I hate dealing with the laguz gauge mechanic as it's an inconvenience for when i need the unit to attack then and there. Yes, there are items that mitigate the gauge but those are resources i can spend to make a more consistent unit better. As for laguz royals? Never use them. They are benched unless force deployed and even then i keep them relegated to out of the way if i can help it.
Ranulf can't use wind swords when Mia can, part 3 is filled with enemy teletubbies. His availability is also worse than Mia, missing out on some key maps. Even when he joins he's suddenly not available for 2 maps, yeah he's there for the volcano onwards but his availability is still pretty Meh for a greil mercs, especially when Janaff and Bulki join.
You probably shoulda mentioned the lack of one two range. For me at least that's why I don't use them especially in RD which is such a enemy phase heavy game not being able to counterattack at 2 range is honestly imo even worser than having to deal with the gauge. Also I brought Lethe to tower once I suggest everyone tries bringing a laguz to tower once it's fun seeing a cat destroy a dragon like x3 their size.
I think I saw a video with the same title on Jill's youtube channel but it was a LOT more uncomfortable
LOL Jill would be like a right-wing grifter on TH-cam prolly
Common Dainn propaganda
I... Cannot believe that I'm near the end of my radiant dawn playthrough and have only just realised I can use Olivi grass WHILE my unit is transformed 🤯
Gotta disagree on the claim that laguz are weaker in PoR than RD. I always found the PoR laguz to feel different to your other units, and can do things you normally can't. Mordecai is always one of my top team members because of his high move, smite, strong attacks, and really good defence. Lethe i tried using multiple times, but she just can never keep up. Ranulf and Muarim are just generally super solid.
The bigger issue for me is the gauge though. In PoR i always felt like it recharged pretty quickly and lasted for quite a while, even allowing them to defend tiles untransformed.
In RD cats are practically unuseable because of their gauges. Even if you use an olivi grass, it won't last you long.
You get so many units, many of which are straight up better than many of your laguz. And the fact that laguz have a bugged exp curve on hard mode doesn't help.
One thing i do wanna mention is that Halfshift is seriously underrated. Many people don't quite understand how it works, and simply don't use it. You essentially can permanently transform akin to a demi band, but only get half the transformation bonuses. However for many units, this is still more than enough to be useful. And the best part? You can still just transform normally to get the full stats if you want to.
RD does have some very strong laguz among the hordes of ultra teletubbies. Volug in particular is probably the best non royal in the game, Janaff and Ulki are busted. And the fact stat boosters essentially give them double the stats is nice too.
Piggybacking off this, it's crucial to remember that Olivi Grass essentially nullifies the bonus Cats get to their gauge when untransformed. The important component is how much they lose when transformed, and Cats' gauges deplete incredibly quickly.
I had a draft race where Lethe was my carry and it actually ending up working really well and I won, she really can carry especially since you already have an incentive to clear quickly
My biggest problem with Laguz is the lack of 1-2 range. Both POR and RD are heavily enemy phase games and them not having that ability makes them very difficult to use. I also feel that there will always be a better unit to fill that slot.
Yes in POR they can be used as transitional units however the enemies are very weak even on hard so that type of unit really isnt that necessary. In RD yes someone like Moredcai can be used but in all the maps he is in Haar is also there, and all of his part 3 maps have Gatrie as well. Both of these units are similar in bulk while javing no guage and access to 1-2 range. Same for Janaff and Ulki. Haar and Jill will both be better than them since they both have 1-2 range.
You make a good point, and I think you are right that laguz are underestimated, especially in fe10. But I want to bring up a Counterpoint to these kind of theory crafting stat based discussions: mental load. Just like how Ewan doesn't "need" to be a summoner, it is a choice that lowers mental load giving you Kamikaze units. Likewise, a unit without a gauge means I never have to think about the gauge.
@@iamthehobo this is true. The management process of the gauge may be even to dissuade people , even if it’s relatively forgiving. The extra step is indeed not doing them any favors!
Something i think people forget about bringing laguz to the tower is there are 3 lagus gems with 5 uses given either at or right before the tower so you dont have to worry about the gauge basically giving you more royals
You bring up a decent point. The stats are good, when transformed, which isn’t all the time. Personally I prefer consistent stats even if lower.
POR laguz are a little awkward to use because they don't get good exp gains and their gauge is automatic so you often get bad timed transformations. But once you get a demi band, basically every laguz even with the demi band debuff becomes a top tier unit. In radiant dawn the laguz basically range from either being a trash tier unit like lyre and kyza, or basically game breaking like maurime or any royal. Unfortunately in radiant dawn most of the laguz suffer badly from poor availability
Im pretty sure the casual player (i.e. me) prefer beorc characters bc we see actual growth via the promotion tiers in both stats and appearance. I remember being super excited to see the 3rd tier looks in Radiant Dawn after playing Path of Radiance. 😅
I can definitely see this due to numbers going up triggering dopamine responses ahahahhaa!
I think the biggest issue with them is that I just don't find them enjoyable to play.
There's no 1-2 range. No weapon triangle. No effective weapon bonuses. No balancing weapons based off of accuracy, power, range, durability, etc. No trading weapons around with partners. No feeling of suddenly getting better on promotion or gaining weapon rank to make use of a fancy new toy.
Here's a unit. This is their powerful 1 range attack. Also, sometimes they're near useless.
So the thought process goes like this:
1. This character is boring, and has a mechanic that isn't fun.
2. I don't enjoy using this character.
3. Because I don't enjoy using this character, so I will not use this character.
4. Since I'm not using this character, they must be bad.
Point 4 is the fallacy. I'm content to just stop at point 3. That means I'm playing sub-optimally, and I'm fine with that.
This is an amazing video, but you forgot to Mention that Mordecai has Smite, which helps him move foot units high distances. Also Lethe's instant transformation in PoR is ridiculously good on the star when you have her, as it makes her a good unit to start a map, then pull back when you don't need anymore.
Also Laguz weapons are free and 1 range, but highly reliable to hit as well
I personally like the Laguz and they offer a powerful fighting option for players willing to put up with their different playstyle. There is one point in their favour that you forgot to mention - Laguz get double stats from stat boosters (with the exception being HP.) I've brought Lyre to the Tower and she was able to become the strongest fighter in my squad, since every Energy Drop was +4 strength. Any lucky level up and you get will get +2 in that stat (again, except HP), and like any other units, if you reach a stat cap, it becomes very easy to abuse bonus EXP to rig the stats you might be missing (because in Radiant Dawn you ALWAYS get a level up in three stats if you're able. So if your Lyre caps Speed, Skill and HP? Now she'll be getting three other stats instead guaranteed.) Now imagine what you can do with other Laguz that are not terrible like Lyre. So Laguz don't really fall off if you're willing to ensure it in case the level ups don't favor them.
Of course, that said, I don't think Laguz are necessarily that good though. They can be very powerful units to deal with tough situations and strong enemies, but they are essentially just stat sticks that offer no versatility. Using Radiant Dawn Mia as a comparison, I would still choose Mia over Ranulf, because Mia has access to 1-2 range (and while Wind Edges are bad on most units, Mia actually has the skill to hit it consistently with high hit rates. Other more powerful 1-2 range swords will be even better.), and like other units, Mia's low strength can be easily fixed with bonus EXP level ups, even outside of forged weapons. Additionally, Mia becomes a very evasive unit that becomes nigh untouchable, and with the right combination of skills (Adept especially, and she comes with Vantage for free, which can sometimes result in her triggering Adept for extra attacks as she's going first with Vantage; and if you give her Cancel or Disarm, the enemy just lost their attack. Nevermind if she crits. But all she really needs is adept, so the rest is extra. And you should give her Adept if you're using her, because she's one of the best units that can make use of it - and fortunately, Soren comes with it if you want it that early!) she becomes the type of unit that you just throw into a blob of enemies and watch her kill everything on enemy phase. She can also kill bosses very easily too when she starts to ramp up. It does take some investment, but it's nothing too crazy, and she'll quickly become one of the best units in one's army, and at that point, she's set for the whole game. And of course, she doesn't have to deal with the cat gauge, which is a big deal, because if I send Ranulf into a group of enemies, not only will he be unable to counterattack some of them (due to the lack of 1-2 range weaponry), even if he doesn't attack back, he still loses just as much gauge; and there are a quite a few of 1-2 range enemies in Tellius. If enough enemies attack him on enemy phase, he will transform, and suddenly, any enemy will be able to kill. So you always need to be careful to make sure you won't face more rounds of combat than it can take, and even if you it doesn't run out, you're probably still using Olivi Grass in that turn, when you could be doing other actions, like attacking a priority target, using Shove or Rescue, among other situational actions; the gauge, especially a cat's, really hurts, and Mia does not have this problem. Mia can fight whoever she wants for as long as she wants, and also has the ability to use other actions without having to manage a volatile gauge. The point is: Laguz are stat sticks that are very limited in what they can do, while Beorc are very versatile, while still being better in multiple combat scenarios - the investment is well worth it in the long run, especially in a such a long game like Radiant Dawn. And lastly, Ranulf's lesser availability is also a factor, and other Laguz share this availability problem. Mia is with the Greil Mercenaries the moment you get them, and her not having access to forges in her first two chapters is not too bad keeping in mind how many more chapters you get to use her in. So while Ranulf has higher stats, it still doesn't mean he'll perform better in an overall playthrough.
Ultimately though, you could also just use both Mia and Ranulf together, because if you're comfortable enough with Radiant Dawn's maps and mechanics, you can make any team combination work. But if I had to choose one, I'd go for Mia because she offers much more than just high stats (but she can quickly ramp up to the point of killing everything in sight anyways, so low stats aren't much of a problem either.) Radiant Dawn also gives you plenty of money to work with, and while the Greil Mercenaries suffer at first from poor finances, they are strong enough at base to where this is not much of an issue. When it comes to skill investment, she's one of the best users of Adept, and even then, there are multiple Adepts that you can pass around (at least 3 if I recall.) And she comes with Vantage for free, whicch
As for Path of Radiance, Laguz have less problem with their gauge, honestly. Lethe is a staple in many of my runs, and Janaff is pretty solid too. The lack of 1-2 range hurts them even more in this game, because Path of Radiance has a LOT of 1-2 range enemies. Still, Laguz can be very solid to anyone using them, and like you said, it saves you money since you don't need to invest much on them; meaning that you can use that money on someone else. This is why, in spite of their cons, I still like Laguz units in both games, because they give the player options on how to approach problems - from the battlefield to the economy! The player doesn't have to use them, but the option is there, and it has its merits. Unfortunately, most people just don't find it fun to manage the gauges and play with a unit that is so limited in what they can do beyond having high stats.
But I agree, Laguz need more love! Lyre is not that hard to make good. It's hilarious to see her kill dragons at the Tower!
@@DreamWorldWitch I agree the gauge managing is usually the issue people find frustrating, but I think statistically and power-wise, they’re not that much below (and some are actually on par or above) with many other units deemed “better”.
I’ve made a whole video about why Mia is more a case of favoritism over reliable investment, and that’s not to say she’s bad. She’s not. She’s good. She scales super well. But the reliance on 1-2 range in a game filled with armor knights and cavs hitting mostly at 1 range, with the weakest enemy mages to date, really puts into question HOW much do you need 1-2 in RD?
Again, not saying that Mia is bad. But the argument of “just give her adept” when a ton of other units (including ranulf) who can also use it is very akin to the mentality of “just give Jill every stat booster and skill and she’ll be great.”
Yeah, sure, they will, and perhaps their endgame performance is better due to class and stat allocation, but it doesn’t make the portions of the game in which they’re trying to reach that endgame easier. Just more of the same.
Anyways thanks for the long and thought out response! Love these discussions!
I feel like I'm on a different planet discussing unit viability on these games. Lethe and Mordecai are both very good. Bring Titania and a promoted Oscar with them and it's like having up to 4 Titanias on the map. They can also shove your other units around during their downtime, especially Mordecai. Also, Lethe is just there when you need her the most, the beginning of the map when there are the most enemies. By the time she loses her cat form you don't really need her anymore.
Don't even get me started on Volug in RD. He has earth affinity and amazing speed. Pair him with Zihark and they'll trivialize the hardest chapters in the game together. Volug has the added bonus of being able to take some hits if he gets a streak of bad luck. He's A+ tier at minimum, but I would give him A tier.
Bro ignored Volug. One of the most useful Laguz in this game
@@braveravier2565 I think he’s one if the best hands down, but I think a lot of people know how good he is too. So decided to focus more on the ones people don’t seem to rate as highly
I honestly don't like him as much. Maybe it's because on Part I you get used to him steamrolling everything and then on Part III he doesn't do anything at all if you halfshift. That's normally such a turnoff for me that I end up not liking him at all afterwards
PoR laguz are pretty good from what I remember, you get strong options like lethe and mordecai early on and Muarim is really strong. The demi band penalties aren't too severe and the don't lose too much gauge from combat. I remember taking lethe all the way to endgame the first time playing.
RD is different. Mord and lethe are still strong in part 2, but when you get to part 3 by the time they come back you'd already been working with the grail mercs for 5 chapters who are strong enough to finish the chapters without any problems so why fix what ain't broke. They also don't seem to get much exp which also makes it hard to me to want to use them a lot.
Having to deal with the gauge also adds another layer of complexity that i don't want to deal with, "Do they have the grass or stones, whats their gauge, can I attack with the unit without having to worry that he shifts out and becomes a punching bag."
You gave a good example of mordecai choking the point but what about maps that this does not apply, i need to take out that enemy or someone is going to die, but if I attack my laguz is going to shift out and become useless and then has to go in the corner smoking weed for 2 turns. It also feels like it goes down much more compared to PoR.
Comparing combat utility compared to other units, while they are very powerful while transformed stat wise, other units have edges that make them more attractive such canto, which cats and tigers lack ,any weapon effectiveness like bows, hammers , crit boosting weapons, brave weapons, or any 1-2 weapons which hurts them badly as the gauge still goes down when dodging ranged attacks.
I would say that RD laguz are pretty strong such as the ones listed in your video, people can definably make them work. However, most aren't strong enough that would make most players want to deal with the laguz gauge when more reliable and flexible options exist.
Only played POR once a long time ago. I just recently found a copy and now i think i will try using the laguz because i definitely remember not using them as a kid
Demi band Muarim with no investment can survive endgame chapters.
With no investment.
On my last playthrough of RD, i was going to try and use Lyre. But i gave up after looking her stats for a little bit ( she's really really underwhelming oh god. But i love her design so i really wanted to use her ). So i didn't try until i got to part IV. She was on the Hawk's army, alongside Elincia ( with Mercy ). I think i gave her blossom too since she was getting free exp anyway
She quickly became a monster
Like, she maxed out Spd and Skill and had a pretty good Atk
Her and Ranulf where doing really good up to the point i got to the tower, but even so i didn't bring any of them in. Every one of the Beorc units i had invested into where reaaally good too. And even if i dont care about the laguz gauge as much, i still dont like dealing with it since i am a big player phase guy
Units like Mia, Shinnon, Rolf, Nephenee and Brom made for way bettee contestants when it came down to those 11 spaces lol
But yeah, if i play the game again i might try to use her again from the start, maybe give her all the good stat boosters instead of giving them to Nephenee ( which btw had all her stats maxed out - not just from boosters since i never hoard those for too much - at the end of the game :D )
I'm just now playing Path of Radiance for the first time, and I saw the laguz as functioning similar to Myrrh in Sacred Stones, a limited-use delete button. I'm only playing Normal, which may be why they work that way, but I am disappointed in their lack of EXP gains. I like watching numbers go up. Muarim is the only one I'm regularly using because he comes with the Demi-band and has the highest stats to use it with. If anything, I thought people would consider laguz too strong because a lot of them, tigers especially, can tank better than my Brom or Gatrie did, even untransformed. Then, they transform faster. I figured that's how they were meant to be used.
... dude... just take my like, in Radiant Dawn I always go with Laguz, I just love using this tipe of units
I think the Laguz are designed to be filler units that are made to be used when the player thinks they’ll be useful. From where the Tellius games stand in the series, Laguz are pretty much the only class similar to Fa and Tiki who are also strong one off units with some sort of condition.
But, have you considered that they are sub-human?
Great video. Love these types of topics!
From the little experience I had on PoR, muarim and lethe were quite solid. As usual, the annoying part is worrying about their transformation (or just give the demi band)
Laguz popularity is set in stone because people just don't enjoy playing the gauge. Unfun = bad unit. Same reason people will defend units that are argued to be bad because of the effort it takes to make them good, making them good is fun.
Kyza is my favourite character is all of Fire Emblem.
As a Lyre/Vika enjoyer, I love to suffer. And make my ironman duo partner mald. I am not sorry.
Lyre still sucks to be honest
I really think they should be able to use weapons when not transformed. Them not being able to just feels extremely bad and makes people not want to use them. Lethe I never use but the other two in PoR I use as Smite bots. Game just is not hard enough to need to use a unit that requires thought. Just give bexp to Marcia or Jill and win.
@@quickpawmaud this is true, they do suffer a bit from redundancy issues in PoR.
@FireEmbros it is why even though I really like the story, worldbuilding, and characters I just do not like playing PoR. I like to play with a large team and like to use plot relevant characters for the story. PoR just doesn't really support that and feels bad to play if you don't just juggernaut as it is extremely slow.
Do not be fooled by Ranulfs big stats in RD, managing cat gauge is fate far worse than death, especially when having to deal with hordes of weak enemies and/or 2 range and RD laguz are almost useless in human form with pitiful stats while in PR they can still block tiles with decent defenses early to mid game
bro "forgot" the 1-2 range
@@matiastorres2553 people talk a lot about 1-2 range, but the vast majority of enemies in Rd have 1 range weapons. There’s some that have javelins but very rarely, and some mages. The mages are so weak, they can’t hit the Laguz most of the time and are cleaned up on PP just as easily.
I mean, not being able to retaliate can be an issue, sure, but it’s way overblown in this case.
Por does have a lot of 1-2 range though, have to admit.
This is furry propaganda, and I'm here for it! I'll admit the laguz are harder to use mainly because, lacking 1-2 range means their enemy phase is lacking, specially in RD where you even have wind swords. And their player phase is spent using grass instead of initiating combat. If all laguz had formshift, or didn't need to transform, they'd easily be the best units. Sadly, the equivalent of the Demi band is way less effective in this game :(
Mia beats ranulf in the waifu stat which does matter
The fundamental issue with ANIMAL PEOPLE is that they are not fully controllable. You want damage NOW and when you enemy phase you want to be able to absorb combats and return damage. Animal people can transform after x amount of combats on EP and it takes them forever to organically transform. It also doesn't help that most of them are villagers for several turns offering little value when "hanging out". It would be one thing if they had their own items to use on dead turns, or if they transformed it lasted for x amount of turns instead of x amount of combats.
The dancing ones are great and there are some units that are good but compared to the best units in either game they are in, they are largely mid.
Great video. But heres something you're probably forgetting. Player bais.
I've, personally, always been a growths over bases player. You say to treat most of the laguz as prepromotes? Well, to me, prepromotes immediately go to the bench, no discussion outside of a very select few.
I hate dealing with the laguz gauge mechanic as it's an inconvenience for when i need the unit to attack then and there. Yes, there are items that mitigate the gauge but those are resources i can spend to make a more consistent unit better.
As for laguz royals? Never use them. They are benched unless force deployed and even then i keep them relegated to out of the way if i can help it.
I think Shinon might be right about the Laguz Problem.
Ranulf can't use wind swords when Mia can, part 3 is filled with enemy teletubbies. His availability is also worse than Mia, missing out on some key maps. Even when he joins he's suddenly not available for 2 maps, yeah he's there for the volcano onwards but his availability is still pretty Meh for a greil mercs, especially when Janaff and Bulki join.
All laguz are bad besides the ones that are hot smh