Very good video. I agree completely. "Half done and lazy" is a great way to explain it. Even the installer is lazy. You have to manually update your RE's to get the hi res versions, and you have to manually delete and reinstall Radical Piano, Klang, Pangea and Humana to get those in hi res. Is it too much to ask that the installer sorts all of that out for you? I'm almost ashamed of the fact that I actually updated from 11 Suite to 12. As an Ableton Live, Cubase, and Maschine user, there was really NOTHING for me to gain with this update, except the Hi Res graphics. I really wanted that for when I use the Reason Rack plugin, but I can't help but feel like I've been robbed at this point. I can't see me spending any more money with Propellerhead in the future, unless they radically change their updates and business practices. Having to spend $130 for hi res graphics in 2021 is just criminal! That should have been a free update for all Reason 10 and 11 users.
Yes, 100% Correct ! In my opinion Reason Studios have to spend a Free RackExtension (Own Choice, including Algorythm) as a BIG Sorry to the early Adoptors for this Buggy Software ! And there is much to do ! GFX, Bugs : Try to unfold all Template Rackextensions, and then look at the Birds view - Can u see the Black space missing the GFX ? Or try to flip the Rack with a big project loaded : for me it takes Minutes ! and there was Reason 11 much Faster... And yes, it is a Shame that the DAW Part has got NOTHING in this "Update"... MSG to Reason Studios : Your Software is sold as a DAW, not as a Graphics Demo (what the hell is the Spinning Fan making in a DAW ????) it´s the Sound and the Composition that makes the Music, not the Spinning Fan ! and if u not able to bring a Modern DAW with features like, ChordTracks or Intelligent userdefinable Macros, then u should better sell it as a Musical INSTRUMENT and not as DAW because even the free Cakewalk have more Power than Reason ! So PLEASE take a looooong look at PreSonus Studio One 5 to learn how a Modern DAW should work and look today !
@@carstenherbst2934 Yay, finally someone else talks about the damn spinning fan ! High five ! I'd really love to know how this even came out as a top feature in their office meetings... Seriously, is it a video game or a DAW ? I'm really frightened and sad to read how this new version eats up CPU and is so unfinished on many aspects...
I've probably made less comments on videos than the number of decades I've been living. However I just had to say something here. I too am very disappointed with the Reason 12 release. I have been using Reason since it first came out, regularly updating and occasionally buying rack extensions. I'm at home with Reason and don't wish to learn a new DAW. I've always looked forward to new releases and never questioned the price. This time, however, considering what Reason+ users have been given, I thought the new release would contain some extra goodies like Friktion or Algoritm. The new combinator's features are most welcome, but unless you're doing a lot of instrument design, they probably won't see a great deal of use while actually making music. The new sampler is welcome but so far hasn't inspired me like some previous devices. I like to be able to use Reason if my internet has been down for a week, so the Reason+ option doesn't appeal. I'm a dedicated Reason User, but ten years ago I was also a dedicated SoundCloud user. Now I can't even navigate my way around it so I no longer use it. I hope Reason doesn't suffer the same fate. I still love Reason...
Yea, that's what I'm worried about. To be honest, I think it's just disrespectful that 12 didn't come with the things that have been released in Reason+.
I’m extremely disappointed in Reason’s release… I was in the same boat as you. I thought their would be a bunch of smaller updates (workflow, vst3, video support) instead, I knew every single update before the release and I don’t think it’s worth $129 for the upgrade 😔 I’ve been using Reason since Reason 3 and now I’m stuck at Reason 10 and don’t know if I’ll ever upgrade again.
I was in the same boat. I upgraded to 11 which I’m glad about as it’s vst. But definitely won’t be upgrading until they sort their stuff out…..consistently. I like FL studio for ease of use, but I’d consider myself a reason power user and Cubase to me seems to have the best of all worlds.
Yea, the idea of learning another DAW as well as you know Reason is daunting.. It took me weeks to get what I would consider proficient at Ableton. Even now I probably still know the Reason DAW more throughly (I was familiar with every workflow detail) and I haven't really used it in years!
@@matthewstuartnz it is really hard, especially if you have hardware background. I used to speak so highly of Reason. Convinced 4 of my friends to use it years ago, before it got lazy. Sad to see it running on fumes like this. Used to upgrade instantly up to 10. Had to stop throwing money at them, their middle finger is so close up in their long time users faces. .
Reason is a dope DAW, but I'm also disappointed with the big build-up to literally get 4 new features that have nothing to keep longtime users interested. All the workflow and modern upgrades would be nice, yet here I am still wondering if it's too difficult for them to allow us to fade audio in different curves?? I'm reluctantly hopeful that this is a calm before the explosion because this is like a wet firecracker.
A wet firecracker! 😂 Yea crossfading in Reason sucked. That was one of the Reason's I switched to Ableton and when they did add it, it was still worse. I was at least hoping it would be comparable.
I think that they expected this backlash from long-time users and were prepared to suck it up. They seem to aiming for a new breed of customers who want to make "beats" whilst paying for it with their pocket money.
Subbed. I really love your videos, and I'm frightened when I see how Reason is evolving now. Your whole point is spot on and really expresses what I thought, which is not reassuring, to say the least. And the comments speak for themselves... I really hope the folks at Reason Studios will watch your videos (all of them) and read the comments here to really understand how their long-time, loyal users feel. I'm in the same boat : coming form Reason 3 Adapted, upgraded to Reason 5, and bought almost every upgrade ever since, plus a bunch of REs, refills and bundles... I genuinely have been loving Reason since day 1, it's really the only music software I can use (along with Audacity), and I really couldn't use anything else for making music. But this is definitely more of a 11.5 than a new version, plus there are still so many basic features missing that I really wonder whether our beloved Props are still caring about their old loyal users and if they really want or can improve what's still missing. I don't feel they want to listen to us anymore, to be really honest.
Thanks for the sub! 🙏🏻 I know how you feel man. I was very reluctant to leave Reason and learn a new DAW but I'm glad I did. Being able to take Reason as a VST definitely made it easier though.
@@matthewstuartnz No problem for the sub, it's well deserved ! Congrats for being able to switch ! I really admire those who can change their DAW habits. I tried Ableton Live once, but it lasted 5 minutes as I was completely lost trying to figure out where was what. Logic is another thing, maybe closer to Reason in terms of UI, but not having the same sequencer workflow had me lost a bit as well, though I might get used to it if I ever had to change. But really, Reason is so unique that I definitely can't think of using any other DAW. It's my everyday tool, literally. I do everything from start to finish within Reason. I can't even imagine myself having to learn everything again AND losing the benefits : crazy cabling, devices or FSB sounds you think you know by heart but they're still awesome because you can rediscover them anytime (kudos for the BeatMap x Dr. OctoRex trick, BTW !)... All those things are part of my beloved Reason - even those who are cruelly missing. I really genuinely love that thing since day one, and despite its quirks and missing features, I really can't think of going elsewhere. But I don't understand what the Props want to do with us and where they want to take their flagship product. What's really sad is their lack of real communication. I'm not talking about their tasteless promo videos or streams where everybody's over-excited and congratulates each other, but you never hear or read them commenting on "negative" points - only on every user praising Reason. I'm really talking about how they avoid, elude, ignore anything that's not in the green column. It's not only stupid but it's also disrespectful toward their users, and I'd say it's even dangerous for them, especially when you see more and more users leaving the boat... I'm not saying we have to bash Reason. It's an excellent DAW with mysteriously still unresolved and unimproved features. But I hate their... I don't even know how to call that : fake happiness ? Fake enthusiasm ? I hate that so much. Not being able to just comment or reply on crucial points is really being dishonest to us (not even just the long-time users). Sometimes I feel they (the frontmen) are tied to rules, just like you have a NDA when you're beta testing. It's weird. Reading so much alarming comments from long-time users SHOULD wake them up. It's not normal.
yea, I find it really telling that on my videos where I haven't gone easy on my criticism, I have got over 90% of comments agreeing with me. I was critical in my Reason 11 review but probably wasn't as nuanced in my delivery. I had a few more haters there 😅 But I stand by what I said. Glad to hear you found some of my videos helpful! I almost didn't switch to Live.. I made a couple of beats and it was slow and hard and didn't sound like me. But I persevered cause I'd already paid for the suite! 😅 Realistically, I needed it for work, but now I just love it and it's my favourite DAW. I also have Logic but don't love the workflow. I have so many unfinished tracks in Reason. If they updated the sequencer, I'd probably jump back in and finish them.
The only reason I upgraded last time was to get Reason as a plugin and move on to Ableton. I'm perfectly happy now with Ableton 11 suite and Reason 11 suite. The only way they could get me to upgrade is to dramatically improve the sequencer or throw in a device to sweeten the deal.
Even Reason Studios USES Ableton’s live DAW in their videos. That says it all really. 😶 Propellerhead... left us some nice instruments, fx and utilities though. All good things come to an end. Looks like this is the last stop for lots of users. Not to have VST3 host capabilities is a shame in 2021.
I'm almost in the same situation as you, (except I'm not happy with the way that Live 11 Suite glitches on my - supposedly - capable laptop). Live 10 Suite with Reason 11 Suite as a VST is where I'm at right now.
The reason the devices like Friktion, Alorithm, Europa, etc are good is because they're made by a wizard developed (who has done most of Reason's rack devices), Peter Jubel. The rest - the DAW, the sequencer, the audio editing, the preset finder, the installers, etc, are done by crap developers who phone it in, and a company that doesn't give a fuck.
This is the start of Reason treating their loyal license holders as second class. 12 license does not include Friktion. Going with Reason+ does. So the prior PR of choice for license vs subscription was false. I have Reason as a plugin in Logic.
I see a few comments suggesting users being upset about price- it has nothing to do with monetary cost. It has to do with time investment cost. Every year that lapses without core DAW improvements is frustrating for those who invest in and only work in Reason. Reason Studios should be honest with what the actual plan is and simply tell folks. I hardly use Reason but follow this saga because their current business model is a train wreck.
@@matthewstuartnz I’m glad you made this video- it all needed to be said. At this point it’s fair to assume that small iterative updates will be the norm for 13,14,15 et all because of their sub model so it’s anyones guess when or if the DAW portion gets a substantial update. I just bought a Kontrol S49 and use it in conjunction with Bitwig 4.1 and the workflow is exactly what I need. Insanely good integration. Plus I sometimes use midi in clips launcher view to trigger maschine 2 scenes. Give it a try someday 😎
It’s such a shame because some people think those who criticise do it because they don’t like reason or just being negative. This couldn’t be further from the truth, we complain because we love reason and in in the hope that they’ll change. The worry part for me is when people stop complain because they’ve lost interest all together. If I switch to cubase I wouldn’t be watching videos like this, or involved in forums. A bit like relationship that fades out , they’ll just be a lack of connection.
@@Aeoxmusic It's not just complaining about what we could have or dream of. It's just plain disrespect toward loyal and long-time users who, as Nakid wrote, do love Reason, and have been asking legitimate features since 10 years (basic features that all other DAWs have) and are still seeing nothing today. Not only do the Props never listen to what they could add, but they're also totally ignoring those who legitimately complain. The only comments you see from Ryan or RS are replies to those who praise Reason. The rest is simply ignored - they don't even deny or comment or debate. They just ignore us, their loyal long-time users who have always been supporting their beloved product - and who will apprently massively skip this upgrade, which means something, I guess... The lack of communication of the Props is incomprehensible, but at the same time, sadly shows an obvious hint as to where they're going.
For me it was a matter of Reason actually not being able to provide me with a way to do what I was trying to do. I switched to Ableton and found I could do everything I was thinking of and more (specifically in regards to how I was wanting to manipulate audio in the sequencer).
You probably know this by now but you actually have to manually delete Radical Piano (and the 3 SoundIron devices) and redownload them in order to get them in HD. I don’t know why hose particular devices are different. Btw I love and use Reason but I pretty much agree with all your thoughts.
Thanks for this video, and all your other videos. Sadly, I think your comments are spot on. I have been with Reason since 2.5. Back then, Reason was one of the exciting innovations in computer music production. But, music production software is a fast moving and competitive game. Steinberg and Native Instruments have been pretty much able to keep pace. I have a feeling that the next big innovation is around the corner. I think Reason 12 is a 'must win' for Reason Studios., and Reason 12 looks weak to me. Reason used to be the leader,. Now, they cannot catch up, and probably never will. I thank Propellerhead for all their early groundbreaking efforts.Again, this business is so fast moving and competitive. We have seen so many technology businesses fade away.
I have moved on - running Reaper now, and I just picked up Kontakt 6 for 50% off at NI to fill in some of the gaps with sampling. Reaper is no panacea, but there is at least constant development going on with incremental improvements to the UI - well, also the price is right for me.
I'm glad I watched this. I've been thinking about upgrading from 10 to 12, mostly to get the rack vst functionality, but I think I might just use that money to crossgrade over to Cubase and keep building my NI plugins. I haven't been excited about Reason for a very long time and I was hoping they'd improved the editing a bit since 10.
I’m still on Reason11 suite and plan to skip this update. One thing that has recently been mentioned (ref mimic showcase vid) is that some of the older reason device are being updated,which after seeing what has happened to the combinator could be very interesting. The problem I see here,is that knowing how Reason Studios operate,this will be for Reason 12/Reason + users only. So it will force the users on earlier versions to upgrade or miss out. They appear to have us by the bollocks...
Your absolutely right. I updated because I got tired of looking at the fuzzy screen. The combinator is cool and that’s about it. I’m glad I only use it to make beats in. You’re right on the money they should make all the RE a VST. They have no interest in making that DAW good anymore. Might as well let people use the RE freely in any DAW. This will be my last time ever updating again so let’s hope they add VST 3 before 12 is over with. Reason is a DAW with so much potential but have sh@t people running it I feel your pain.
I 100 % agree with your sentiment regarding the pricing model - at least they should offer an intro selection of devices and patches as well as combinator front panel. With the DAW for free it would bring so many more people to the environment. Instead they should spend time on developing rack extensions and the Rack, as well as promoting third party developers in the RE Shop (like the Apple app store - with fair terms for both developers and Reason Studios as publishers).
Thank you again David for your thoughts on Reason 12. I was disappointed that none of Algoritm, Friktion or Pattern Mutator were not included in the upgrade as I have held off buying any of these because, as you said, there is no discount on upgrades for features you have already paid for. The upgrade feels like a kick in the teeth to anyone on the fence about Reason+. The only way I would consider R+ is if they provided a cheaper option that doesn't include sample packs, as I prefer to create my own sounds instead of using sound libraries etc. If they did that they could sell sound packs individually so we could buy just the ones we wanted. I think this would be much better from a marketing and sales pov. However, I'm more unsure now about the future of Reason as a DAW and will be hesitant about buying anything from RS, at least until I see what they're working on next. If they listen to all our feedback, add VST3 support and improve what's already there instead of adding new instruments, maybe.
Yea man, a tier without sound packs would be cool. I feel your pain main, I subscribe to Reason+ but I still think twice about the idea of buying anything from the company. I just don't know what they are doing anymore.. Like, is it a safe investment? 😅
Nope. Not upgrading on this disappointing version. Ive been a user since 1.0 They’ve become lazy and greedy as a developer as far as im concerned. I own the suite.They abandoned it. The new version has updates like hirez graphics that should have been added for free. If they added Friktion and Mutator (Like NI does, you get some of the previous year’s instruments in the next version). Looks like im waiting until next year and Reason 13 if they even release one. If not im staying at Reason 11. I haven’t bothered with their weak DAW in years and will never go back. I LOVE Reason as a VST in Ableton but without basic HD they get used less and less since my old eyes on a hirez monitor don’t mix well.
Now that we know Reason+ was in development way before the release of Suite, I still can’t believe they released it then abandoned it and knew all along that was their plan. Now that I think about it, RS said “we’re not sure if there will be another Suite”, and I bet they said that because the only way there would have been a Suite 12 is if they failed to make their Reason+ deadline and would use it as a fallback plan. I don’t disagree with Reason +, just their lack of honesty and transparency with the whole thing!
@@Brandwebgo like I’ve said. Greed. It reminds me too much of how Adobe behaved when they went subscription. I stopped using them when they went subscription AFTER years of being a power user and poster boy for them. Their press was all lies and just felt like a greedy, anti consumer FU move to all of their user base. Adobe has a monopoly unfortunately. Propellerhead doesn’t. Plenty of better more consumer friendly choices in music software these days.
@@Brandwebgo me too except i now have clients that i have to use adobe tools for. Id rather not but for compatibility sake. My client pays for it but id rather abandon them all together. Ive forgotten so much it slows me down every time open it up. Im old enough to have been using adobe since 1.0 on all of their software.lol
I had long fooled myself that they knew what was best for us. It's amazing that they aren't listening to the community. At the least I'd hoped they were in contact with "professional" producers and getting feedback from them, but that doesn't seem to be the case AT ALL! Oh well. It just feels like it's the beginning of the end. I suppose it was an okay run. Myself, I'm going to learn Studio One inside out. Maybe they should move their headquarters to NY, LA, ATL and get in touch with working producers.
@@matthewstuartnz I think they don't listen because they don't want us long term "pro" users. They want new kids to buy into the subscription model and spend money on loops and sample packs. They are going down the route of paint by numbers music for the Tik Tok crowd. Personally I think it will be their downfall but they are looking for fast cash right now. Profit first.
Honest question... I remember Reason from back in its "glory days", must have been around 2005ish... have they ever really knew / cared what was best for you all? I never really used it. Sure... i patched a few cables for the novelty. I just never really saw the hype after that. It was always behind the curve.
Totally agree. Lol they had a sale on launch for 129€ then suddenly it became 199€ for users who bought the suite version when i prior invested more than 500€ for previous versions and updates...
Upgraded from version 9. I was very disappointed in the sound of Radical Pianos! At this point, the best DAW feature is opening midi files with assigned iD8 devices. I'm sure no one does this but me ( great way to learn songs). In many ways I think the vst version is more manageable, as the rack can be overwhelming!
I agree with a lot of what you're saying and even in R11, the workflow enhancements they had were very small. The addition of mp3 export also felt as half baked (you can't export to wave and mp3 at the same time, for example and if you do multiple format exports as I do you lose more time. However I don't agree with the "pro" approach you have, as reason has strengths even for pros. It's mixer is imho the best mixer in any daw, and having Cubase and reaper in all its rudeness, reason Remote is quite more usable and fast to tweak (and for example Cubase doesnt remote easily the whole strip (eq is fine. But compressor and gate are out of bounds). But I have the exact same feelings about the daw. It needs more love from propellerheads. But having it cluttered in menus isn't also very good, so it's a fine line to what they add without adding too much complexity. And while I think track and channel folders, mixer channel patches, and auto punch in are quite feaseable full track freezing might be an open worm can. That being said reason daw needs these 4 features (auto punch in, track freezing, track and Chanel folders and channel patches or as reaper and Cubase have, track templates) to be a more serious contender against other daws.
Yea man, all your suggestions are spot on. I do really like Reason's mixer and do agree that Reason has strengths for pros. However, (and maybe what I didn't communicate very well) is that I think the things it lacks outweigh the strengths relative to other DAWs. For example, there are things I really don't like about Ableton and think Reason does better. But Ableton has less I don't like and more that actually improves my workflow. Reason is the other way around.
@@matthewstuartnz what makes me mad, and I guess other people too, is that there isn't a functional limitation to making music in reason. The main features of a daw are there (audio and midi sequencing, virtual instruments with the core devices, re's and vst2, mixing and summing, etc.) and they still have one of the stablest systems around. They just had to push a little more to get the workflow at par with other daws, and have the option to save your project audio separately. I liked the idea of a consolidated format but keeping multiple versions of a 2 GB file with ssd's is not easy.
Yea, you're right there. It's good enough that you can complain about it and people will say you're whining for no reason. But it's not good enough that it's actually ground-breaking in any way. I also like the idea of the consolidated file format in theory, but after using Ableton for a while, I no longer think it's practical.
its no surprise people move onto pirated versions of ableton etc, im happy with reason personally but it pisses more off how they have ignored other users daw requests for years now.. i want to feel proud to call myself a reason user not hang my head in shame
I only upgraded to v11 last year because of the Reason Plugin Rack, wanted to use it in Cubase, but that crashed and corrupted so many of my project files, I stopped using it. Too afraid to add it, and decided not worth upgrading to v12 as with every new release, I just feel that Reason is the modern version of Dance eJay (anyone old enough to remember it from the 90s?)!
Yea, I still use Reason all the time in my projects but it definitely feels less professional than a lot of my other plugins. I'm probably too young to remember that 😅
Like they haven't said it officially, but the writing in on the wall, it seems like they are (slowly but surely) downgrading the DAW to just a VST. They have Right out stopped development of workflow and compatibility, 3rd party VSTs are still a major problem (there is no VST3 support let alone any real VST support, I have spoken to 3rd party companies of VSTs, and they say Reason Studios is reluctant in looking into implementation of their products, they just not interested) , there's no auto save (option to automatically save the project every 1,5,10 or15 mins) amongst other things. So Reason these days is a no-go (that's coming from a Reason lover from R3 to 10)
That's what I'm concerned about for all the people who say they are just going to stick with an old version. Unless you're planning on maintaining an old computer, it will eventually become redundant.
@@matthewstuartnz I just built a new audio rig with a intel i9. m.2 drives and 2.5" SSDs. What a HUGE improvement over my 10 year old dell workstation I was using before. Fast, responsive. Projects that took up 95% of CPU now take up 7%. 10 will have a lot of life as far as what I can throw at it. But the real problem is after seeing how Reason Studios keeps taking the L and looking at how other DAWs plus stuff like Maschine do things so much better and modern.....Reason will simply end up fading away due too smarter buyers. Hard to fool folks now with the internet and instant information.
@@busywl69 I want the Combinator 2 too. Mimic can fuck right off. The upgrade price from 11 Suite is not worth it for anyone who appreciates the true worth of their hard-earned cash.
Haha 😂 yea the hair situation is getting out of control.. we've been in lockdown so I haven't been able to get a cut 🤦🏼♂️ And yup, the studio definitely needs some love
For some reason, Reason 12 makes my plugins (in the rack) appear very small and I can't make them bigger. Looking at the plugins make my eyes hurt. Also still not able to upload VST3 plugins.
I’m on the 3 month trial. I am getting sounds in my compositions I would not be getting otherwise do to the analog feel & “playful” Reason 12+ environment. I’m not struggling with the sequencer or mixer & would prefer to use “self contained software” although I own Logic & Studio One Pro. I will say I have the buffer size at 128 with very low latency in Reason & I’m not sure why it seems so efficient compared to Studio One. No… my settings in Studio One are not screwed up. 😎
THEY COULD JUST ADD A HOVERING MAGNIFYING GLASS THAT YOU CAN ACTIVATE TO READ OR ZOOM IN ON ANYTHING IN THE PROGRAM. THAT SHOULD BE IN A FREE UPDATE TO ALL OWNERS.
I agree with this guy 💯. I've been using Reason since version 2.5, and the "upgrades " are just not significant. Ice been using Logic more and more lately but I like to produce in Reason because of the uptime sounds you can create with signal flow chaining and do so quickly, but I have to bounce everything out to WAV and import to PT to mix the session because of Reasons mix workflow is not upto standards, but overall I still use it .
I hope whatever they are doing at RS works out for them. It seems they are on the back foot and trying to pivot their products to appeal to a new audience. For me there is no value in the upgrade to 12 and I don't want to sub to R+ but there are still some rack extensions I intend to buy. I hope there is a Reason 13 or 14 that I can upgrade to in the future.
I started using Reason years ago, before it had audio tracks, using it via rewire into Logic then just stopped using it, then bought version 11 intro just to use as a plugin. I updated to the full standard version in May, having said all of that, I got the Reason 12 update for free. If I had to pay for the update I would have definitely been disappointed tbh. HD graphics and a moving fan really does nothing to improve my workflow. As far as Mimic goes, it’s a good move to have a sampler that chops , etc in Reason, but I use Serato Sampler for when I want to chop samples which I don’t do that much of. For a version “12” update.....just not much to write home about. And while we’re at it.....what’s going on with Reason Compact????? Still only 3 tracks?
Reason Compact is a complete joke. It could be a really cool mobile app if they actually decided to put any effort into developing it. Although, tbh I'd rather their effort just goes into fixing 12.
Best Review. They better come with quick and recurrent updates in this version and finish the lazy job... or it is the last one I buy. And they can keep on dreaming for subscription. By the way there are even more unfinished graphics in other devices. Ridiculous knowing it’s one of the very few updates in Reason 12.. and using this as sale argument is even dishonest.
Yup .. I'm looking into studio one now after this .. goin to spend those hours learning it .. .. it's time to know another DAW. . .. it will be a gradual steady pace into the new DAW..
Studio One is great man! If I hadn't bought into Ableton Live, I'd totally be using Studio One right now. I still think about subscribing to their monthly thing every now and then.
I know a lot of people have had this issue. I haven't personally tested it in the standalone DAW. Has it been fixed in a patch yet? There is also probably a thread about it on the reasontalk forum that might be able to provide some insight.
@@matthewstuartnz I sent a message to customer support. They claim they are working on a patch to fix the issue and currently it's not fixed however they are aware. Currently I am using the Stand alone. I've also decided to reinstall Reason 11 until the they fix it. I did suggest that they give is the option to enlarge or maximize the windows on our own. For example have the ability to hold shift key click and draw to the size we want of the VST or plugin. (Maybe they should hire me as an engineer so I can tell and show them how to enhance their product making it more competitive in the market because the other DAWs are kicking Reason's butt 😄) Reason is my favorite DAW.
I never even got an email to say R12 was available for me to upgrade lol. Stunned that there is still no VST3 support. Guess I'll be switching to Ableton.
Good review & I agree with a lot of your opinions. I moved to LogicX about 5 years ago & love having Reason as a VST & the HD graphics have been nice so far.
True, their coupling of the rack GUI zoom level with the other parts of the GUI such as the browser and sequencer etc IS SO STUPID, what an idiotic and lazy design decision. The new combinator is the only reason to upgrade, it's like Reason 3.0 all over again only way more disappointing this time. AFAIK Samping still does not work in plugin mode. It needs another year to be finished as it's clearly not finished.
You finally get it. THE RACK IS THE CORE PRODUCT!!! Reason has always been - and always will be - a premium SOUNDware company. Everything else is secondary and not intended to compete with other DAWs. The DAW didn't even have AUDIO for years. At this point, I just hope they get better midi integration for the rack. The rack. The rack. The rack. That is all.
Yea I talked about MIDI intergration with the rack and the plugin when it first came out. I needs improvement in my opinion. I hope they'll actually do it if that's their main focus now.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for saving me a lot of money and time. How unbelievable they can’t even implement basic stuff. They should start selling some of their applications as stand alone and iPad apps if there are a small company not able yet to manage their product management and basic updates.
Cool video. I have a feeling that company policy is to not release a finished daw. It seems the plan is to drag feature implimention out so as to always have "new features" to advertise.
I have a question. Recently I got (and everybody else on internet) offer to upgrade to Reason 12 for $80. I am on Reason 11 and I am not sure about this but will love the new improved resolution and vst3 support. But somehow in the back of my mind I have a feeling they will release Reason 13 very soon after this promotion expres. What do you think about that. Should I go for upgrade to 12 or wait and see. The regular upgrade price is $200 which is absurd and I dont want to pay that much for upgrade latter on...
@@matthewstuartnz Hey no problem :D , I actually waited as I suspected that there will be Reason 13 soon. So now I will probably wait for a discounted upgrade price as I am mostly working in reaper these days but I love Reason. In any case think 11 to 13 jump would be worth the price. Thanks for responding even this late. I hope you have a great day!
Oh yea! I don't know if you've seen my Reason 13 video I just released but I think 11 to 13 would be a great update! I think the new version has a lot of great stuff for people in your situation.
I can explain you half way depending on my understanding of computers, that they made something that didn't follow during the years, and now they're trying to redo everything (or maybe not) from ground zero ! which could lead to two things, abandon the DAW and focus on the Rack as a vst or redo everything from 0 and make it something really new !
I've been wondering this, too. Since they've become reason studios, are they going to be splitting the Rack from the DAW? Maybe they are creating another stand alone sequencer with a completely different workflow from the timeline sequencer included in the Reason DAW. That might explain why there is hardly any attention to updating the sequencer in Reason. Maybe they are too constrained by their legacy code?
its such a great value IF it's your first Reason. OR if you're upgrading from a much older version. I upgraded from 5 to 10 and it was a huge jump. Then upgraded from 10 to 11 ONLY to get the VST rack. I see no value for myself atm in upgrading to 12. High res graphics should be a free update for all. Without it, there's not all that much more. Seems like Reason Studios have cut their...propellers... off (smh lol)
Good points mentioned. They do great stuff but there could be done way more to each and every feature they offer/put out. I`m relatively new to the community but I really enjoy the DAW. Hope they will improve the DAW but also don`t want to set myself up for disappointments, so I`m already eyeballing with Ableton. On the other side, I just want to make music and Reason does offer everything I need, so I guess I will stick with it for now.
If Reason does everything you want it to, then it's a great choice! A lot of people won't have any issues with it and it is a great piece of software. I left using it as a DAW cause my workflow was changing and Reason was starting to limit things I was trying to do in my production.
Honestly I’ve used every daw except Qbase , and Logic . Im a sample based producer but before i was able to make beats my first love and use for Daws was about recording which I believe reason is one the best for that purpose and mixing versus Ableton or any daw I used except pro tools . But I can’t help to Bat a eye at Logic I’m not updating at this point hopefully logic will work good and I can use reason as plugin
Thanks for this, I'm a longtime fan of Reason, stopped updating at 10 and have been concerned about updating since then. Wholeheartedly agree with the points you make. Such a shame Reason hasn't caught up with its competitors in lots of important areas, and the whole Reason+/sales approach sucks. It's forced me back in to using other DAWs.
@@matthewstuartnz Thanks! I end up using Ableton in most of my day to day work. I still find creative flow when writing better in Reason, so will often start something in Reason and then migrate files.
As absurd and frustrating as it is to do something like this... I use an iMac with high resolution and as much as I love the Reason 11 as a plugin I can use in Ableton, I really can't stand how tiny everything is. I can barely see the controls on many devices (like Thor for example). Is it at least worth it as a final upgrade to just use Reason in Ableton for the rest of my life? Or is the scaling and high res graphics not worth the price of upgrade?
I upgraded because I was still on version 9, so I got all the goodies from 10 and 11 as well. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. I'm a longtime basic user, and can live with its sequencer limitations. There's no way I can justify Reason+. If Reason disappeared tomorrow, I'd be fine. I've got all I need, I I'll own it forever.
"...I want to see them sort our their crap so I could start recommending it to people again." Yup! Granted, I love my Reason Rack VST in Studio One. Use it all the time. Will I upgrade for the Combinator and hi-res graphics? Yes. But only when I have money to burn. I mean just...burn. No idea when that'll be. Thanks for the facts.
Thanks for checking it out! Yea, I love using the Reason Rack VST in Ableton, but I could recommend it to a new user atm without a ton of caveats about the state of the company.
Have to agree on this one. Rather than doing a comparison video like the million MPC vs Maschine vids, just shining a light the areas Reason is still lacking is a better argument. Was able to check reason 12 out with the Reason+ subscription trial and no payment info. Funny thing is, I already ran the trail with the same account, my main reason account. Thought id just pay the small $20 and try out the new Reason 12 features for 1 month then cancel, sure enough, i got to try the trial again. So they are even lazy on the website. I own reason 11, those high-res graphics is definitely a nice touch FINALLY, but mimic sucks, combinator is still ok, would rather make music than become a UI/UX artist. Still hate the arrangement window, fuck the pen tool (click to add note, press e to get the eraser, click to erase, press W to pen tool, click to add note.... maybe let me use the pen to add note, hold E to use the eraser and when i let go, go back to the pen. I hated this in like Reason 4). If I could get Abletons interface( without the right handed track settings, FL studios piano roll, logic pro's ability to sample to a pad and step sequencer and bitwigs modulators (not max for live) and reasons rack extensions, especially the players, id be set.
Lol oh man I think you have just described the perfect DAW! 😅 Can someone do that please 🙏🏻 Yea the pen tool input never really bother me too much (I had some really good keyboard commands set), but how you described it working would be way better.
Spot on....laziest update ever. Feels like they just want to take advantage of the love people used to have for reason....skipping this update for now. No vst 3 support, no single improvement to the sequencer, no internal vst to vst midi routing, no improvement to any previous players or devices ..( excluding the combinator)
I used to feel like a maverick bucking the trend because I used Reason rather than a “professional” DAW. I abandoned Cubase when Reason got VSTs, but now I feel it’s time to go back. I can’t ignore what’s happening anymore. With the RRP, they basically said “go and use another DAW”. Honestly, would you have any other DAW developer promoting Ableton in their videos? Then there’s the insult to long time users that is Reason+, in which the kewl kids get the new toys (at a rather expensive price - £240 is like buying the whole DAW again every year). Maybe the name change away from Propellerhead was the watershed. It’s being marketed as an app for casual musicians that’s a step up from the Lego music construction in GarageBand. If you want to be regarded as serious, it’s time to jump ship to something else.
Yea, I've started to feel like Reason is being marketed to more of a casual musician. And yea, I think it's surprising that they feature Ableton so much in their promo material.
I don't get Reason Studios, why can't they just accept that they butchered the most fun DAW and made it in to a plugin and call it a day? They are still in denial, I guess.
I think they should of added Friktion to Reason 12. That would of been the deal breaker, I would of got it but as it is I don't have the internet landline only mobile. It's not as easy to say well let's just pay for plus, it would end up costing Me about 70£ extra a month for landline and TV package because you can't buy it separate.
I feel quite the same. I already have Friktion (the most interesting and awesome device they've release in the latest years, to me) so I wouldn't have been against maybe Algoritm and Pattern Mutator. That would have justified the € 129. But just Combinator and Mimic aren't worth it. I don't really care about hi-res graphics and the spinning fan, and reading from other users, this new version is also quite CPU hungry.
@@Oper8Music How did you get Friktion? Did you buy it separate? Or are you on plus? Yes I have a few unfinished but epic strings power music and I tried making it sound as real as possible but I wonder how different the sound would be on Friktions stings. I'd just copy the midi over to Friktion and then record Me playing with the mod wheel. I think the Combonator is cool but it's basicly going to kill off new rack exstentions. Yes the Mimic sampler is taking up 60% of cpu.
@@HOLLASOUNDS Yep, I bought it when it was slightly discounted. No way I'm on R+, the Devil's invention ! :D Friktion sounds great, it's really impressive in terms of nuances, especially for solo parts. I love playing random stuff live with it ! I prefer StringWERK for massive or epic strings, though it lacks a few things (movement and randomization in the Animator patch, among others). Mimic eating up so much CPU is really bad. I wonder if they will eventually fix this... I don't know if the new Combinator will really kill new REs. I mean, it allows for crazy devices, but some specific DSP processing or subtle things like maths stuff, for instance (think sequencer Players) are only possible in a RE.
I agree. Been saying it for months, 12 will tell all and guess what, you're right, they aren't really gonna bring the daw up the standard of the other leading competitors. I think we now know why the RRP was created. They have no intention of competing. I would've expected at least a few functionality features in 12 but nothing at all? Jesus. That's a bad sign. I would love to see a video, maybe 15 minutes long, a day in the life of Mattias at Reason Studio's so we could see what his day consists of. It feels like they don't do a lot to me, maybe a video would prove me wrong and there are reasons behind it all. Hopefully, as others have stated on Facebook, R+ will enable them to roll out more updates with workflow enhancements and this 12 browser and graphics thing etc was just laying the groundwork as it had be done. Fingers crossed.
@@matthewstuartnz Same, there's genuine magic and 20 years of glow effect around the product but outside of limited VST rack use, it's a tough sell. They sat on their hands for too long.
Honestly, I'd try a few cause it's totally personally preference. Pretty much any of them will be a good choice. I really like Ableton because of the workflow, but Studio One is what I usually recommend to people who don't have an idea of what they want to use already. If you prefer a more traditional workflow, I'd start with Studio One and if you don't like that, check out Ableton. But Logic, Reaper, Cubase, FL Studio, and Bitwig all come highly recommended by a lot of people.
I actually think these updates are better for daw than rrp. Things like the right click to assign to combi controls do not work in rrp even though it states you can in rack plugin manual. Mimic cannot even read ableton live samples even though they use live in most of their videos. They definitely work better in the daw.
@@matthewstuartnz yeah I use rrp in live. Using my trial of + to test 12. Combinator2 has lots of potential and mimic has a few nice touches but not worth £129 for me personally.
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING. REASON PLUS KIND OF MADE ME UPSET WITH THE SUBSCRIPTION ASPECT BUT IT IS GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHO CANT AFFORD TO BUY THE FULL VERSION.
12 is a meh update. 11 Suite was a buy for me once it was discounted, it made the instruments and FX into a rack VST which was a huge winner. Now I mostly use the rack in Live11 and Cubase. That's no diss to Reason Studios, because I've skipped some Cubase updates. RS make great and unique instruments and FX, but they just don't appear to have the staff, and they don't have investors with any risk appetite to add the necessary staff to compete with Live, Cubase, Logic, Studio One, etc.
If reason plus didn't exist all of their new instruments would've been included in this release. This release is so lackluster because it is meant to push everyone towards the subscription model. Either subscribe or move on but I wouldn't suggest being optimistic about the future for long time reason users.
Anything that came with Reason 12 would have been a feature for a minor .1 release update. I don't see much of an improvement on the patch browser. We still can't even friggin' sort favorite lists alphabetically!
@@matthewstuartnz the most wierdest rack extention is the New combinator. I get it why they did this, to accomodate the newly users in other daw's. But I don't get it in perspective to the current userbase. In my opinion this release could have been a Reason 11.5 one. I've bought the upgrade to support them, but am I satisfied, no.
Hopefully the developers are listening ( I know they never do lol). They need to hire more people to properly develop this daw (or just make it a plug in only which seems to be what they really want) and stop trying to sell the DAW via a guy on a webcam or 2 minute videos. I'm prepared to move on if they go plug in only as I'm sure many Reason only people are out there. You can only take so much weak DLC. The new Combinator is really nice but I don't see anything else its offering I can't do with 10. It's like they just ignore the competition and figure it will be slipstreamed into competing daws.
@@matthewstuartnz Logic is kind of going in the same direction as reason. I like most of the virtual instruments in logic but I still get more done in reason. I am OLD. So the features needed for hip hop and such just don’t get used much for me on either daw. I record live instruments for the most part.
Everyone bitchin about reason clearly doesnt make music. Me with my shit $300 laptop and kitchen counter top setup still manages to make the best and push reason to its max potential. Just make MUSIC.
couldn’t agree more of this topic. sometimes i look at Presonus Studio One as the alternate universe of Reason I’ve expected to be if they serious developing the daw ..
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
Very good video. I agree completely. "Half done and lazy" is a great way to explain it. Even the installer is lazy. You have to manually update your RE's to get the hi res versions, and you have to manually delete and reinstall Radical Piano, Klang, Pangea and Humana to get those in hi res. Is it too much to ask that the installer sorts all of that out for you? I'm almost ashamed of the fact that I actually updated from 11 Suite to 12. As an Ableton Live, Cubase, and Maschine user, there was really NOTHING for me to gain with this update, except the Hi Res graphics. I really wanted that for when I use the Reason Rack plugin, but I can't help but feel like I've been robbed at this point. I can't see me spending any more money with Propellerhead in the future, unless they radically change their updates and business practices. Having to spend $130 for hi res graphics in 2021 is just criminal! That should have been a free update for all Reason 10 and 11 users.
Yes, 100% Correct ! In my opinion Reason Studios have to spend a Free RackExtension (Own Choice, including Algorythm) as a BIG Sorry to the early Adoptors for this Buggy Software ! And there is much to do ! GFX, Bugs : Try to unfold all Template Rackextensions, and then look at the Birds view - Can u see the Black space missing the GFX ? Or try to flip the Rack with a big project loaded : for me it takes Minutes ! and there was Reason 11 much Faster... And yes, it is a Shame that the DAW Part has got NOTHING in this "Update"... MSG to Reason Studios : Your Software is sold as a DAW, not as a Graphics Demo (what the hell is the Spinning Fan making in a DAW ????) it´s the Sound and the Composition that makes the Music, not the Spinning Fan ! and if u not able to bring a Modern DAW with features like, ChordTracks or Intelligent userdefinable Macros, then u should better sell it as a Musical INSTRUMENT and not as DAW because even the free Cakewalk have more Power than Reason ! So PLEASE take a looooong look at PreSonus Studio One 5 to learn how a Modern DAW should work and look today !
I completely agree.
Yup 👍🏻
😂
@@carstenherbst2934 Yay, finally someone else talks about the damn spinning fan ! High five ! I'd really love to know how this even came out as a top feature in their office meetings... Seriously, is it a video game or a DAW ? I'm really frightened and sad to read how this new version eats up CPU and is so unfinished on many aspects...
Reason died when Propellerheads was changed into "Reason Studios"
I think you're right.
Reason is the king of unfinished implementation and paying for everything twice
😂
Lmao
I've probably made less comments on videos than the number of decades I've been living. However I just had to say something here.
I too am very disappointed with the Reason 12 release. I have been using Reason since it first came out, regularly updating and occasionally
buying rack extensions. I'm at home with Reason and don't wish to learn a new DAW. I've always looked forward to new releases and never
questioned the price. This time, however, considering what Reason+ users have been given, I thought the new release would contain some
extra goodies like Friktion or Algoritm. The new combinator's features are most welcome, but unless you're doing a lot of instrument design,
they probably won't see a great deal of use while actually making music. The new sampler is welcome but so far hasn't inspired me like some
previous devices.
I like to be able to use Reason if my internet has been down for a week, so the Reason+ option doesn't appeal.
I'm a dedicated Reason User, but ten years ago I was also a dedicated SoundCloud user. Now I can't even navigate my way around it so I no
longer use it. I hope Reason doesn't suffer the same fate.
I still love Reason...
Yea, that's what I'm worried about. To be honest, I think it's just disrespectful that 12 didn't come with the things that have been released in Reason+.
I’m extremely disappointed in Reason’s release… I was in the same boat as you. I thought their would be a bunch of smaller updates (workflow, vst3, video support) instead, I knew every single update before the release and I don’t think it’s worth $129 for the upgrade 😔
I’ve been using Reason since Reason 3 and now I’m stuck at Reason 10 and don’t know if I’ll ever upgrade again.
I was in the same boat. I upgraded to 11 which I’m glad about as it’s vst. But definitely won’t be upgrading until they sort their stuff out…..consistently. I like FL studio for ease of use, but I’d consider myself a reason power user and Cubase to me seems to have the best of all worlds.
@@eviloutionise not a lot of buzz around their releases anymore. Its getting kind of empty on talkbacks on their various social media pages. sad man.
That's the worst part. It's hard to switch when you're so invested. I agonised over it for months before I did.
Yea, the idea of learning another DAW as well as you know Reason is daunting.. It took me weeks to get what I would consider proficient at Ableton. Even now I probably still know the Reason DAW more throughly (I was familiar with every workflow detail) and I haven't really used it in years!
@@matthewstuartnz it is really hard, especially if you have hardware background. I used to speak so highly of Reason. Convinced 4 of my friends to use it years ago, before it got lazy. Sad to see it running on fumes like this. Used to upgrade instantly up to 10. Had to stop throwing money at them, their middle finger is so close up in their long time users faces. .
Reason is a dope DAW, but I'm also disappointed with the big build-up to literally get 4 new features that have nothing to keep longtime users interested. All the workflow and modern upgrades would be nice, yet here I am still wondering if it's too difficult for them to allow us to fade audio in different curves?? I'm reluctantly hopeful that this is a calm before the explosion because this is like a wet firecracker.
A wet firecracker! 😂 Yea crossfading in Reason sucked. That was one of the Reason's I switched to Ableton and when they did add it, it was still worse. I was at least hoping it would be comparable.
I think that they expected this backlash from long-time users and were prepared to suck it up. They seem to aiming for a new breed of customers who want to make "beats" whilst paying for it with their pocket money.
I've been wondering this for a while. And I'm slightly concerned about it.
@@TheValueOfN So true !
Subbed. I really love your videos, and I'm frightened when I see how Reason is evolving now. Your whole point is spot on and really expresses what I thought, which is not reassuring, to say the least. And the comments speak for themselves... I really hope the folks at Reason Studios will watch your videos (all of them) and read the comments here to really understand how their long-time, loyal users feel. I'm in the same boat : coming form Reason 3 Adapted, upgraded to Reason 5, and bought almost every upgrade ever since, plus a bunch of REs, refills and bundles... I genuinely have been loving Reason since day 1, it's really the only music software I can use (along with Audacity), and I really couldn't use anything else for making music. But this is definitely more of a 11.5 than a new version, plus there are still so many basic features missing that I really wonder whether our beloved Props are still caring about their old loyal users and if they really want or can improve what's still missing. I don't feel they want to listen to us anymore, to be really honest.
Thanks for the sub! 🙏🏻 I know how you feel man. I was very reluctant to leave Reason and learn a new DAW but I'm glad I did. Being able to take Reason as a VST definitely made it easier though.
@@matthewstuartnz No problem for the sub, it's well deserved !
Congrats for being able to switch ! I really admire those who can change their DAW habits. I tried Ableton Live once, but it lasted 5 minutes as I was completely lost trying to figure out where was what. Logic is another thing, maybe closer to Reason in terms of UI, but not having the same sequencer workflow had me lost a bit as well, though I might get used to it if I ever had to change.
But really, Reason is so unique that I definitely can't think of using any other DAW. It's my everyday tool, literally. I do everything from start to finish within Reason. I can't even imagine myself having to learn everything again AND losing the benefits : crazy cabling, devices or FSB sounds you think you know by heart but they're still awesome because you can rediscover them anytime (kudos for the BeatMap x Dr. OctoRex trick, BTW !)... All those things are part of my beloved Reason - even those who are cruelly missing. I really genuinely love that thing since day one, and despite its quirks and missing features, I really can't think of going elsewhere. But I don't understand what the Props want to do with us and where they want to take their flagship product.
What's really sad is their lack of real communication. I'm not talking about their tasteless promo videos or streams where everybody's over-excited and congratulates each other, but you never hear or read them commenting on "negative" points - only on every user praising Reason. I'm really talking about how they avoid, elude, ignore anything that's not in the green column. It's not only stupid but it's also disrespectful toward their users, and I'd say it's even dangerous for them, especially when you see more and more users leaving the boat...
I'm not saying we have to bash Reason. It's an excellent DAW with mysteriously still unresolved and unimproved features. But I hate their... I don't even know how to call that : fake happiness ? Fake enthusiasm ? I hate that so much.
Not being able to just comment or reply on crucial points is really being dishonest to us (not even just the long-time users). Sometimes I feel they (the frontmen) are tied to rules, just like you have a NDA when you're beta testing. It's weird. Reading so much alarming comments from long-time users SHOULD wake them up. It's not normal.
yea, I find it really telling that on my videos where I haven't gone easy on my criticism, I have got over 90% of comments agreeing with me. I was critical in my Reason 11 review but probably wasn't as nuanced in my delivery. I had a few more haters there 😅 But I stand by what I said. Glad to hear you found some of my videos helpful! I almost didn't switch to Live.. I made a couple of beats and it was slow and hard and didn't sound like me. But I persevered cause I'd already paid for the suite! 😅 Realistically, I needed it for work, but now I just love it and it's my favourite DAW. I also have Logic but don't love the workflow. I have so many unfinished tracks in Reason. If they updated the sequencer, I'd probably jump back in and finish them.
The only reason I upgraded last time was to get Reason as a plugin and move on to Ableton. I'm perfectly happy now with Ableton 11 suite and Reason 11 suite. The only way they could get me to upgrade is to dramatically improve the sequencer or throw in a device to sweeten the deal.
Agree 100% I’m looking at cubase
Even Reason Studios USES Ableton’s live DAW in their videos. That says it all really. 😶 Propellerhead... left us some nice instruments, fx and utilities though. All good things come to an end. Looks like this is the last stop for lots of users. Not to have VST3 host capabilities is a shame in 2021.
Yea, I don't know if they could ever pull me back to use the DAW.
I'm almost in the same situation as you, (except I'm not happy with the way that Live 11 Suite glitches on my - supposedly - capable laptop). Live 10 Suite with Reason 11 Suite as a VST is where I'm at right now.
Oh you're having glitches with Live? It crashes every couple of weeks for me but other than that it's pretty stable.
My question is why does it take 2years for limited feature upgrades but the other DAW's release tons of new features annually?
I think they dont have the money to keep the developer working.
@@iliravdyli4109 I wonder what car the Propellerhead CEO drives :)
@@iliravdyli4109 BINGO!
Great question.. I would also love to know the answer to that.
At this point I would rather deal with Ableton crashing every other week than Reason not letting me do what I want to do.
The reason the devices like Friktion, Alorithm, Europa, etc are good is because they're made by a wizard developed (who has done most of Reason's rack devices), Peter Jubel. The rest - the DAW, the sequencer, the audio editing, the preset finder, the installers, etc, are done by crap developers who phone it in, and a company that doesn't give a fuck.
This is an interesting point 🤔
This is the start of Reason treating their loyal license holders as second class. 12 license does not include Friktion. Going with Reason+ does. So the prior PR of choice for license vs subscription was false. I have Reason as a plugin in Logic.
Yea they definitely made it seem like you could choose both.. But apparently you can't.
I see a few comments suggesting users being upset about price- it has nothing to do with monetary cost. It has to do with time investment cost. Every year that lapses without core DAW improvements is frustrating for those who invest in and only work in Reason. Reason Studios should be honest with what the actual plan is and simply tell folks. I hardly use Reason but follow this saga because their current business model is a train wreck.
That's actually a fantastic point! 👌🏻
@@matthewstuartnz I’m glad you made this video- it all needed to be said. At this point it’s fair to assume that small iterative updates will be the norm for 13,14,15 et all because of their sub model so it’s anyones guess when or if the DAW portion gets a substantial update. I just bought a Kontrol S49 and use it in conjunction with Bitwig 4.1 and the workflow is exactly what I need. Insanely good integration. Plus I sometimes use midi in clips launcher view to trigger maschine 2 scenes. Give it a try someday 😎
Oh that's an interesting idea! Yea man the S49 is a great keyboard. Mine has become the center of my rig. So versatile.
It’s such a shame because some people think those who criticise do it because they don’t like reason or just being negative. This couldn’t be further from the truth, we complain because we love reason and in in the hope that they’ll change. The worry part for me is when people stop complain because they’ve lost interest all together. If I switch to cubase I wouldn’t be watching videos like this, or involved in forums. A bit like relationship that fades out , they’ll just be a lack of connection.
@@Aeoxmusic It's not just complaining about what we could have or dream of. It's just plain disrespect toward loyal and long-time users who, as Nakid wrote, do love Reason, and have been asking legitimate features since 10 years (basic features that all other DAWs have) and are still seeing nothing today.
Not only do the Props never listen to what they could add, but they're also totally ignoring those who legitimately complain. The only comments you see from Ryan or RS are replies to those who praise Reason. The rest is simply ignored - they don't even deny or comment or debate. They just ignore us, their loyal long-time users who have always been supporting their beloved product - and who will apprently massively skip this upgrade, which means something, I guess...
The lack of communication of the Props is incomprehensible, but at the same time, sadly shows an obvious hint as to where they're going.
Great point.
For me it was a matter of Reason actually not being able to provide me with a way to do what I was trying to do. I switched to Ableton and found I could do everything I was thinking of and more (specifically in regards to how I was wanting to manipulate audio in the sequencer).
I know for a fact they hear the criticisms. They just don't seem to do anything.
Is there a way to get Reason to actually improve the workflow? They tried to do 'scenes' like Ableton but it turned out to me ...a complete failure.
They said in a blog post just now that they are thinking about it. So leave your ideas on social media and hopefully they will prioritise it!
You probably know this by now but you actually have to manually delete Radical Piano (and the 3 SoundIron devices) and redownload them in order to get them in HD. I don’t know why hose particular devices are different. Btw I love and use Reason but I pretty much agree with all your thoughts.
they're installed in a different folder that's why you need to do it manually !!!
@@DeejayAfro I'm glad someone pointed this out.
@@StephenTJames well, Not everybody has a knowledge about IT !
Thanks for checking out the video! Yea, I've learned that now. Pretty silly that's the case
Okay, that kind of makes sense... Still pretty dumb though.
The question remains then for Reason Studios. Will they add features for the DAW. I heard VST3 will be available by end of year.
That would be great if it's the case but to be honest, it's hardly enough.
Hello. The Reason plugin in VST3 has disappeared in the Ableron program. What could be? Why? Rescan doesn't help
Have you tried re-scanning your VSTs inside Ableton?
Thanks for this video, and all your other videos. Sadly, I think your comments are spot on. I have been with Reason since 2.5. Back then, Reason was one of the exciting innovations in computer music production. But, music production software is a fast moving and competitive game. Steinberg and Native Instruments have been pretty much able to keep pace. I have a feeling that the next big innovation is around the corner. I think Reason 12 is a 'must win' for Reason Studios., and Reason 12 looks weak to me. Reason used to be the leader,. Now, they cannot catch up, and probably never will. I thank Propellerhead for all their early groundbreaking efforts.Again, this business is so fast moving and competitive. We have seen so many technology businesses fade away.
Honestly, that's what I'm concerned about and is one of the reasons why I keep talking about it. I love Reason and don't want to see it die.
I have moved on - running Reaper now, and I just picked up Kontakt 6 for 50% off at NI to fill in some of the gaps with sampling. Reaper is no panacea, but there is at least constant development going on with incremental improvements to the UI - well, also the price is right for me.
Fair enough man. I don't love Reaper, I don't think it's for me. But I know it's super powerful and a lot of people love it!
I'm glad I watched this. I've been thinking about upgrading from 10 to 12, mostly to get the rack vst functionality, but I think I might just use that money to crossgrade over to Cubase and keep building my NI plugins. I haven't been excited about Reason for a very long time and I was hoping they'd improved the editing a bit since 10.
What did you end up doing? I think that's probably the best more tbh
I’m still on Reason11 suite and plan to skip this update.
One thing that has recently been mentioned (ref mimic showcase vid) is that some of
the older reason device are being updated,which after seeing what has happened to the combinator
could be very interesting.
The problem I see here,is that knowing how Reason Studios operate,this will be for Reason 12/Reason + users only.
So it will force the users on earlier versions to upgrade or miss out.
They appear to have us by the bollocks...
Yea man, unfortunately I think you're going to be right about this one. 🤦🏼♂️
I want track groups/folders in the sequencer. Is that too much to ask for? :( Can't be that hard
I've wanted that for many years... Apparently it is too much to ask.
Definitely the disappointment of the year :(
Yup 🤦🏼♂️
Your absolutely right. I updated because I got tired of looking at the fuzzy screen. The combinator is cool and that’s about it. I’m glad I only use it to make beats in. You’re right on the money they should make all the RE a VST. They have no interest in making that DAW good anymore. Might as well let people use the RE freely in any DAW. This will be my last time ever updating again so let’s hope they add VST 3 before 12 is over with. Reason is a DAW with so much potential but have sh@t people running it I feel your pain.
Yea man.. Reason could have been the coolest DAW ever.
I 100 % agree with your sentiment regarding the pricing model - at least they should offer an intro selection of devices and patches as well as combinator front panel. With the DAW for free it would bring so many more people to the environment.
Instead they should spend time on developing rack extensions and the Rack, as well as promoting third party developers in the RE Shop (like the Apple app store - with fair terms for both developers and Reason Studios as publishers).
I know man. I want them to do this so much.
Thank you again David for your thoughts on Reason 12. I was disappointed that none of Algoritm, Friktion or Pattern Mutator were not included in the upgrade as I have held off buying any of these because, as you said, there is no discount on upgrades for features you have already paid for. The upgrade feels like a kick in the teeth to anyone on the fence about Reason+. The only way I would consider R+ is if they provided a cheaper option that doesn't include sample packs, as I prefer to create my own sounds instead of using sound libraries etc. If they did that they could sell sound packs individually so we could buy just the ones we wanted. I think this would be much better from a marketing and sales pov. However, I'm more unsure now about the future of Reason as a DAW and will be hesitant about buying anything from RS, at least until I see what they're working on next. If they listen to all our feedback, add VST3 support and improve what's already there instead of adding new instruments, maybe.
Yea man, a tier without sound packs would be cool. I feel your pain main, I subscribe to Reason+ but I still think twice about the idea of buying anything from the company. I just don't know what they are doing anymore.. Like, is it a safe investment? 😅
Nope. Not upgrading on this disappointing version. Ive been a user since 1.0 They’ve become lazy and greedy as a developer as far as im concerned. I own the suite.They abandoned it. The new version has updates like hirez graphics that should have been added for free. If they added Friktion and Mutator (Like NI does, you get some of the previous year’s instruments in the next version). Looks like im waiting until next year and Reason 13 if they even release one. If not im staying at Reason 11. I haven’t bothered with their weak DAW in years and will never go back. I LOVE Reason as a VST in Ableton but without basic HD they get used less and less since my old eyes on a hirez monitor don’t mix well.
I hear you man. Not adding Friktion, etc was just disrespectful.
Now that we know Reason+ was in development way before the release of Suite, I still can’t believe they released it then abandoned it and knew all along that was their plan. Now that I think about it, RS said “we’re not sure if there will be another Suite”, and I bet they said that because the only way there would have been a Suite 12 is if they failed to make their Reason+ deadline and would use it as a fallback plan. I don’t disagree with Reason +, just their lack of honesty and transparency with the whole thing!
@@Brandwebgo like I’ve said. Greed. It reminds me too much of how Adobe behaved when they went subscription. I stopped using them when they went subscription AFTER years of being a power user and poster boy for them. Their press was all lies and just felt like a greedy, anti consumer FU move to all of their user base. Adobe has a monopoly unfortunately. Propellerhead doesn’t. Plenty of better more consumer friendly choices in music software these days.
@@umanoid1523 When adobe pulled their BS, I switched over to Serif’s Affinity Suite and haven’t looked back.
@@Brandwebgo me too except i now have clients that i have to use adobe tools for. Id rather not but for compatibility sake. My client pays for it but id rather abandon them all together. Ive forgotten so much it slows me down every time open it up. Im old enough to have been using adobe since 1.0 on all of their software.lol
I had long fooled myself that they knew what was best for us. It's amazing that they aren't listening to the community. At the least I'd hoped they were in contact with "professional" producers and getting feedback from them, but that doesn't seem to be the case AT ALL! Oh well. It just feels like it's the beginning of the end. I suppose it was an okay run. Myself, I'm going to learn Studio One inside out.
Maybe they should move their headquarters to NY, LA, ATL and get in touch with working producers.
Studio One is a great choice. I'm constantly baffled becuase I know they know what the community is saying. They just don't seem to care.
@@matthewstuartnz I think they don't listen because they don't want us long term "pro" users. They want new kids to buy into the subscription model and spend money on loops and sample packs. They are going down the route of paint by numbers music for the Tik Tok crowd. Personally I think it will be their downfall but they are looking for fast cash right now. Profit first.
Honest question... I remember Reason from back in its "glory days", must have been around 2005ish... have they ever really knew / cared what was best for you all? I never really used it. Sure... i patched a few cables for the novelty. I just never really saw the hype after that. It was always behind the curve.
That's an interesting thought.
i got into it because I liked the idea of it all being self-contained and I couldn't afford heaps of VSTs, etc at the time.
So as far as the HD, supposedly re-syncing all instruments is necessary. Didn't work foe me tho lol...
Hmm.. Yea so badly introduced
Totally agree. Lol they had a sale on launch for 129€ then suddenly it became 199€ for users who bought the suite version when i prior invested more than 500€ for previous versions and updates...
It's getting expensive...
Upgraded from version 9. I was very disappointed in the sound of Radical Pianos!
At this point, the best DAW feature is opening midi files with assigned iD8 devices.
I'm sure no one does this but me ( great way to learn songs). In many ways I think
the vst version is more manageable, as the rack can be overwhelming!
That's actually a great idea re the midi files!
I agree with a lot of what you're saying and even in R11, the workflow enhancements they had were very small. The addition of mp3 export also felt as half baked (you can't export to wave and mp3 at the same time, for example and if you do multiple format exports as I do you lose more time.
However I don't agree with the "pro" approach you have, as reason has strengths even for pros. It's mixer is imho the best mixer in any daw, and having Cubase and reaper in all its rudeness, reason Remote is quite more usable and fast to tweak (and for example Cubase doesnt remote easily the whole strip (eq is fine. But compressor and gate are out of bounds). But I have the exact same feelings about the daw. It needs more love from propellerheads. But having it cluttered in menus isn't also very good, so it's a fine line to what they add without adding too much complexity. And while I think track and channel folders, mixer channel patches, and auto punch in are quite feaseable full track freezing might be an open worm can. That being said reason daw needs these 4 features (auto punch in, track freezing, track and Chanel folders and channel patches or as reaper and Cubase have, track templates) to be a more serious contender against other daws.
Yea man, all your suggestions are spot on. I do really like Reason's mixer and do agree that Reason has strengths for pros. However, (and maybe what I didn't communicate very well) is that I think the things it lacks outweigh the strengths relative to other DAWs. For example, there are things I really don't like about Ableton and think Reason does better. But Ableton has less I don't like and more that actually improves my workflow. Reason is the other way around.
@@matthewstuartnz what makes me mad, and I guess other people too, is that there isn't a functional limitation to making music in reason. The main features of a daw are there (audio and midi sequencing, virtual instruments with the core devices, re's and vst2, mixing and summing, etc.) and they still have one of the stablest systems around. They just had to push a little more to get the workflow at par with other daws, and have the option to save your project audio separately. I liked the idea of a consolidated format but keeping multiple versions of a 2 GB file with ssd's is not easy.
Yea, you're right there. It's good enough that you can complain about it and people will say you're whining for no reason. But it's not good enough that it's actually ground-breaking in any way. I also like the idea of the consolidated file format in theory, but after using Ableton for a while, I no longer think it's practical.
its no surprise people move onto pirated versions of ableton etc, im happy with reason personally but it pisses more off how they have ignored other users daw requests for years now.. i want to feel proud to call myself a reason user not hang my head in shame
Yea, if it works for you it's great. But I hate hearing the workflow frustrations other users have and feeling like I can't even argue.
I only upgraded to v11 last year because of the Reason Plugin Rack, wanted to use it in Cubase, but that crashed and corrupted so many of my project files, I stopped using it. Too afraid to add it, and decided not worth upgrading to v12 as with every new release, I just feel that Reason is the modern version of Dance eJay (anyone old enough to remember it from the 90s?)!
Yea, I still use Reason all the time in my projects but it definitely feels less professional than a lot of my other plugins. I'm probably too young to remember that 😅
The spinning fan is the best thing. Beside rack availability in your preferred DAW.
Oh yea the spinning fan has definitely had a huge impact on my music making.
Like they haven't said it officially, but the writing in on the wall, it seems like they are (slowly but surely) downgrading the DAW to just a VST. They have Right out stopped development of workflow and compatibility, 3rd party VSTs are still a major problem (there is no VST3 support let alone any real VST support, I have spoken to 3rd party companies of VSTs, and they say Reason Studios is reluctant in looking into implementation of their products, they just not interested) , there's no auto save (option to automatically save the project every 1,5,10 or15 mins) amongst other things. So Reason these days is a no-go (that's coming from a Reason lover from R3 to 10)
I just hope they don't cripple 10. I do want 12 for the new combinator but not for $129. They never have sales on uprade pricing.
I hear you man. I love Reason but don't like where this is going.
That's what I'm concerned about for all the people who say they are just going to stick with an old version. Unless you're planning on maintaining an old computer, it will eventually become redundant.
@@matthewstuartnz I just built a new audio rig with a intel i9. m.2 drives and 2.5" SSDs. What a HUGE improvement over my 10 year old dell workstation I was using before. Fast, responsive. Projects that took up 95% of CPU now take up 7%. 10 will have a lot of life as far as what I can throw at it. But the real problem is after seeing how Reason Studios keeps taking the L and looking at how other DAWs plus stuff like Maschine do things so much better and modern.....Reason will simply end up fading away due too smarter buyers. Hard to fool folks now with the internet and instant information.
@@busywl69 I want the Combinator 2 too. Mimic can fuck right off. The upgrade price from 11 Suite is not worth it for anyone who appreciates the true worth of their hard-earned cash.
When it comes to being half done and lazily implemented, David is an expert. Just look at the state of his hair and his studio! LOL!
Haha 😂 yea the hair situation is getting out of control.. we've been in lockdown so I haven't been able to get a cut 🤦🏼♂️ And yup, the studio definitely needs some love
For some reason, Reason 12 makes my plugins (in the rack) appear very small and I can't make them bigger. Looking at the plugins make my eyes hurt. Also still not able to upload VST3 plugins.
Yea, I've heard of a bunch of people having this issue.
I’m on the 3 month trial. I am getting sounds in my compositions I would not be getting otherwise do to the analog feel & “playful” Reason 12+ environment. I’m not struggling with the sequencer or mixer & would prefer to use “self contained software” although I own Logic & Studio One Pro. I will say I have the buffer size at 128 with very low latency in Reason & I’m not sure why it seems so efficient compared to Studio One. No… my settings in Studio One are not screwed up. 😎
There is a lot of great stuff about Reason as a DAW and if it's working for you that's awesome! It's still a great solution for a lot of people.
Spot on. Running reason inside Bitwig is now the way to go.
👌🏻
THEY COULD JUST ADD A HOVERING MAGNIFYING GLASS THAT YOU CAN ACTIVATE TO READ OR ZOOM IN ON ANYTHING IN THE PROGRAM. THAT SHOULD BE IN A FREE UPDATE TO ALL OWNERS.
Yea a partial zoom would be cool.
I've been a faithful Reason user since version 1. Now dating Bitwig.
I don't even blame you.
I agree with this guy 💯. I've been using Reason since version 2.5, and the "upgrades " are just not significant. Ice been using Logic more and more lately but I like to produce in Reason because of the uptime sounds you can create with signal flow chaining and do so quickly, but I have to bounce everything out to WAV and import to PT to mix the session because of Reasons mix workflow is not upto standards, but overall I still use it .
Yea, Reason's got a lot of good reasons to use it.. unfortunately it's just a few steps removed from being the complete package atm
I hope whatever they are doing at RS works out for them. It seems they are on the back foot and trying to pivot their products to appeal to a new audience. For me there is no value in the upgrade to 12 and I don't want to sub to R+ but there are still some rack extensions I intend to buy. I hope there is a Reason 13 or 14 that I can upgrade to in the future.
Yea, I hope so.. But honestly atm I don't even feel like I could say for sure.
I started using Reason years ago, before it had audio tracks, using it via rewire into Logic then just stopped using it, then bought version 11 intro just to use as a plugin. I updated to the full standard version in May, having said all of that, I got the Reason 12 update for free. If I had to pay for the update I would have definitely been disappointed tbh. HD graphics and a moving fan really does nothing to improve my workflow. As far as Mimic goes, it’s a good move to have a sampler that chops , etc in Reason, but I use Serato Sampler for when I want to chop samples which I don’t do that much of.
For a version “12” update.....just not much to write home about. And while we’re at it.....what’s going on with Reason Compact????? Still only 3 tracks?
Reason Compact is a complete joke. It could be a really cool mobile app if they actually decided to put any effort into developing it. Although, tbh I'd rather their effort just goes into fixing 12.
Best Review. They better come with quick and recurrent updates in this version and finish the lazy job... or it is the last one I buy. And they can keep on dreaming for subscription. By the way there are even more unfinished graphics in other devices. Ridiculous knowing it’s one of the very few updates in Reason 12.. and using this as sale argument is even dishonest.
Yea man. Honestly, I could rather they delayed it than released it in the state it's currently in.
regarding the radical piano, did you (re)synced ur addons? As far as I know you have to start authorizer and resync all addons.
I did not. Other than downloading the new version. Kind of dumb that you have to do this though.
I use Reason and Reaper. If Reason stop being a DAW, then I won't use them as a rack extension either.
They need to buy in, or get off the pot.
Yup. 🤦🏼♂️
Yup .. I'm looking into studio one now after this .. goin to spend those hours learning it .. .. it's time to know another DAW. . .. it will be a gradual steady pace into the new DAW..
Studio One is great man! If I hadn't bought into Ableton Live, I'd totally be using Studio One right now. I still think about subscribing to their monthly thing every now and then.
The VSTs that were perfect size in Reason 11 are too small in 12 to see or even use is there a way to fix this?
I know a lot of people have had this issue. I haven't personally tested it in the standalone DAW. Has it been fixed in a patch yet? There is also probably a thread about it on the reasontalk forum that might be able to provide some insight.
@@matthewstuartnz I sent a message to customer support. They claim they are working on a patch to fix the issue and currently it's not fixed however they are aware. Currently I am using the Stand alone. I've also decided to reinstall Reason 11 until the they fix it. I did suggest that they give is the option to enlarge or maximize the windows on our own. For example have the ability to hold shift key click and draw to the size we want of the VST or plugin. (Maybe they should hire me as an engineer so I can tell and show them how to enhance their product making it more competitive in the market because the other DAWs are kicking Reason's butt 😄) Reason is my favorite DAW.
Lol yea, there are a bunch of things that just seem obvious that Reason isn't doing 🤦🏼♂️ but yea, like you, I still love it though 😅
@@matthewstuartnz Some day they will get it right. Until then I will continue to perfect my music as best as I can. Thanks for reaching out sir.
hey! isn't radical pianos discounted since reason 11? check radical keys?
Is it? I haven't actually looked.
Loved the lead in your song in this video - it reminded me of the Amiga mod days 🙂
Thanks!
I never even got an email to say R12 was available for me to upgrade lol. Stunned that there is still no VST3 support. Guess I'll be switching to Ableton.
Lol yea I got the email a few days after I posted this video 😂
Good review & I agree with a lot of your opinions. I moved to LogicX about 5 years ago & love having Reason as a VST & the HD graphics have been nice so far.
Yea man, at this point I think using it in another DAW is the best way to go.
True, their coupling of the rack GUI zoom level with the other parts of the GUI such as the browser and sequencer etc IS SO STUPID, what an idiotic and lazy design decision. The new combinator is the only reason to upgrade, it's like Reason 3.0 all over again only way more disappointing this time. AFAIK Samping still does not work in plugin mode. It needs another year to be finished as it's clearly not finished.
Yea it doesn't feel like a finished update 🤦🏼♂️
You finally get it. THE RACK IS THE CORE PRODUCT!!!
Reason has always been - and always will be - a premium SOUNDware company. Everything else is secondary and not intended to compete with other DAWs.
The DAW didn't even have AUDIO for years. At this point, I just hope they get better midi integration for the rack. The rack. The rack. The rack. That is all.
Yea I talked about MIDI intergration with the rack and the plugin when it first came out. I needs improvement in my opinion. I hope they'll actually do it if that's their main focus now.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for saving me a lot of money and time. How unbelievable they can’t even implement basic stuff. They should start selling some of their applications as stand alone and iPad apps if there are a small company not able yet to manage their product management and basic updates.
Lol you can actually buy Reason Compact as an iPad app.. It's not good 🤦🏼♂️
Cool video.
I have a feeling that company policy is to not release a finished daw.
It seems the plan is to drag feature implimention out so as to always have "new features" to advertise.
Yea it seems a bit like that! 😂
What DAW did you switch to? What's the main one you're using now?
I use Ableton 99% of the time (with the Reason Rack plugin). I also have Logic but basically never use it.
I have a question. Recently I got (and everybody else on internet) offer to upgrade to Reason 12 for $80. I am on Reason 11 and I am not sure about this but will love the new improved resolution and vst3 support. But somehow in the back of my mind I have a feeling they will release Reason 13 very soon after this promotion expres.
What do you think about that. Should I go for upgrade to 12 or wait and see. The regular upgrade price is $200 which is absurd and I dont want to pay that much for upgrade latter on...
Sorry I didn't see this in time 🤦🏼♂️ What did you end up doing?
@@matthewstuartnz Hey no problem :D , I actually waited as I suspected that there will be Reason 13 soon. So now I will probably wait for a discounted upgrade price as I am mostly working in reaper these days but I love Reason. In any case think 11 to 13 jump would be worth the price. Thanks for responding even this late. I hope you have a great day!
Oh yea! I don't know if you've seen my Reason 13 video I just released but I think 11 to 13 would be a great update! I think the new version has a lot of great stuff for people in your situation.
I can explain you half way depending on my understanding of computers, that they made something that didn't follow during the years, and now they're trying to redo everything (or maybe not) from ground zero ! which could lead to two things, abandon the DAW and focus on the Rack as a vst or redo everything from 0 and make it something really new !
I've been wondering this, too. Since they've become reason studios, are they going to be splitting the Rack from the DAW? Maybe they are creating another stand alone sequencer with a completely different workflow from the timeline sequencer included in the Reason DAW. That might explain why there is hardly any attention to updating the sequencer in Reason. Maybe they are too constrained by their legacy code?
That's an interesting idea. I hope you're right!
Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if this turned out to be the case.
its such a great value IF it's your first Reason. OR if you're upgrading from a much older version. I upgraded from 5 to 10 and it was a huge jump. Then upgraded from 10 to 11 ONLY to get the VST rack. I see no value for myself atm in upgrading to 12. High res graphics should be a free update for all. Without it, there's not all that much more. Seems like Reason Studios have cut their...propellers... off (smh lol)
Lol that's a good analogy 😂
I brought reason 12 to use as a VST in ableton so im happy 🤣
Excellent choice 👌🏻
You are ABSOLUTELY FN RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! THERE SHOULD'VE A FINISHED LIBRARY OF SAMPLER PATCHES, COMBINATOR EFFECTS AND INSTRUMENTS!!!!
Yea, I was expecting more than what we got tbh.
Good points mentioned. They do great stuff but there could be done way more to each and every feature they offer/put out. I`m relatively new to the community but I really enjoy the DAW. Hope they will improve the DAW but also don`t want to set myself up for disappointments, so I`m already eyeballing with Ableton. On the other side, I just want to make music and Reason does offer everything I need, so I guess I will stick with it for now.
If Reason does everything you want it to, then it's a great choice! A lot of people won't have any issues with it and it is a great piece of software. I left using it as a DAW cause my workflow was changing and Reason was starting to limit things I was trying to do in my production.
@@matthewstuartnz exactly
Honestly I’ve used every daw except Qbase , and Logic . Im a sample based producer but before i was able to make beats my first love and use for Daws was about recording which I believe reason is one the best for that purpose and mixing versus Ableton or any daw I used except pro tools . But I can’t help to Bat a eye at Logic I’m not updating at this point hopefully logic will work good and I can use reason as plugin
Yea, I do actually like Reason for recording audio. Unfortunately, the things I don't like about it for that still outweigh the things I do 🤦🏼♂️
Thanks for this, I'm a longtime fan of Reason, stopped updating at 10 and have been concerned about updating since then. Wholeheartedly agree with the points you make. Such a shame Reason hasn't caught up with its competitors in lots of important areas, and the whole Reason+/sales approach sucks. It's forced me back in to using other DAWs.
Sorry that you're having to switch. It's frustrating but I don't blame you. What are you using these days?
@@matthewstuartnz Thanks! I end up using Ableton in most of my day to day work. I still find creative flow when writing better in Reason, so will often start something in Reason and then migrate files.
Yea, Ableton has become my main workhorse as well.
As absurd and frustrating as it is to do something like this... I use an iMac with high resolution and as much as I love the Reason 11 as a plugin I can use in Ableton, I really can't stand how tiny everything is. I can barely see the controls on many devices (like Thor for example). Is it at least worth it as a final upgrade to just use Reason in Ableton for the rest of my life? Or is the scaling and high res graphics not worth the price of upgrade?
If you're not planning on updating again maybe? It definitely is easier to look at in HD and zoomed in a little.
I upgraded because I was still on version 9, so I got all the goodies from 10 and 11 as well. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. I'm a longtime basic user, and can live with its sequencer limitations. There's no way I can justify Reason+. If Reason disappeared tomorrow, I'd be fine. I've got all I need, I I'll own it forever.
Fair enough. It's a great update if you're coming from 9! Hope you enjoy it!
It's like Propellerheads don't even care anymore... The company will only get better if this Mattias guy gets ousted
I'm not sure it's Mattias' fault?🤔
I think that the new owners are the problem.
"...I want to see them sort our their crap so I could start recommending it to people again." Yup! Granted, I love my Reason Rack VST in Studio One. Use it all the time. Will I upgrade for the Combinator and hi-res graphics? Yes. But only when I have money to burn. I mean just...burn. No idea when that'll be. Thanks for the facts.
Thanks for checking it out! Yea, I love using the Reason Rack VST in Ableton, but I could recommend it to a new user atm without a ton of caveats about the state of the company.
Isn’t it still in beta? I mean it’s not the final release yet
I wish 🤦🏼♂️
Have to agree on this one. Rather than doing a comparison video like the million MPC vs Maschine vids, just shining a light the areas Reason is still lacking is a better argument. Was able to check reason 12 out with the Reason+ subscription trial and no payment info. Funny thing is, I already ran the trail with the same account, my main reason account. Thought id just pay the small $20 and try out the new Reason 12 features for 1 month then cancel, sure enough, i got to try the trial again. So they are even lazy on the website. I own reason 11, those high-res graphics is definitely a nice touch FINALLY, but mimic sucks, combinator is still ok, would rather make music than become a UI/UX artist. Still hate the arrangement window, fuck the pen tool (click to add note, press e to get the eraser, click to erase, press W to pen tool, click to add note.... maybe let me use the pen to add note, hold E to use the eraser and when i let go, go back to the pen. I hated this in like Reason 4). If I could get Abletons interface( without the right handed track settings, FL studios piano roll, logic pro's ability to sample to a pad and step sequencer and bitwigs modulators (not max for live) and reasons rack extensions, especially the players, id be set.
Lol oh man I think you have just described the perfect DAW! 😅 Can someone do that please 🙏🏻 Yea the pen tool input never really bother me too much (I had some really good keyboard commands set), but how you described it working would be way better.
They said you have to redownload radical piano, Pangea and whatever the other one is in order for them to show as High res
I will give this a go. Thanks! 🙏🏻
Spot on....laziest update ever. Feels like they just want to take advantage of the love people used to have for reason....skipping this update for now. No vst 3 support, no single improvement to the sequencer, no internal vst to vst midi routing, no improvement to any previous players or devices ..( excluding the combinator)
yea, I keep updating cause of nostalgia.. But I wonder if I'll ever start to second guess it.
16:11 this track is super dope. Yes indeed!
Thanks! 🙏🏻
The difference between R10, 11, and 12 is R+. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder saw this coming after Reason- was announced.
👍🏻
I used to feel like a maverick bucking the trend because I used Reason rather than a “professional” DAW. I abandoned Cubase when Reason got VSTs, but now I feel it’s time to go back. I can’t ignore what’s happening anymore. With the RRP, they basically said “go and use another DAW”. Honestly, would you have any other DAW developer promoting Ableton in their videos? Then there’s the insult to long time users that is Reason+, in which the kewl kids get the new toys (at a rather expensive price - £240 is like buying the whole DAW again every year). Maybe the name change away from Propellerhead was the watershed. It’s being marketed as an app for casual musicians that’s a step up from the Lego music construction in GarageBand. If you want to be regarded as serious, it’s time to jump ship to something else.
Yea, I've started to feel like Reason is being marketed to more of a casual musician. And yea, I think it's surprising that they feature Ableton so much in their promo material.
I don't get Reason Studios, why can't they just accept that they butchered the most fun DAW and made it in to a plugin and call it a day? They are still in denial, I guess.
Lol that's one way to put it 😅
I think they should of added Friktion to Reason 12. That would of been the deal breaker, I would of got it but as it is I don't have the internet landline only mobile. It's not as easy to say well let's just pay for plus, it would end up costing Me about 70£ extra a month for landline and TV package because you can't buy it separate.
I feel quite the same. I already have Friktion (the most interesting and awesome device they've release in the latest years, to me) so I wouldn't have been against maybe Algoritm and Pattern Mutator. That would have justified the € 129. But just Combinator and Mimic aren't worth it. I don't really care about hi-res graphics and the spinning fan, and reading from other users, this new version is also quite CPU hungry.
@@Oper8Music How did you get Friktion? Did you buy it separate? Or are you on plus? Yes I have a few unfinished but epic strings power music and I tried making it sound as real as possible but I wonder how different the sound would be on Friktions stings. I'd just copy the midi over to Friktion and then record Me playing with the mod wheel. I think the Combonator is cool but it's basicly going to kill off new rack exstentions. Yes the Mimic sampler is taking up 60% of cpu.
@@HOLLASOUNDS Yep, I bought it when it was slightly discounted. No way I'm on R+, the Devil's invention ! :D
Friktion sounds great, it's really impressive in terms of nuances, especially for solo parts. I love playing random stuff live with it ! I prefer StringWERK for massive or epic strings, though it lacks a few things (movement and randomization in the Animator patch, among others).
Mimic eating up so much CPU is really bad. I wonder if they will eventually fix this...
I don't know if the new Combinator will really kill new REs. I mean, it allows for crazy devices, but some specific DSP processing or subtle things like maths stuff, for instance (think sequencer Players) are only possible in a RE.
The Mimic sampler is unusable for me cause of the CPU 🤦🏼♂️
I think they should have add at least a few of the past years new devices. It's just disrespectful that they didn't.
I agree. Been saying it for months, 12 will tell all and guess what, you're right, they aren't really gonna bring the daw up the standard of the other leading competitors. I think we now know why the RRP was created. They have no intention of competing. I would've expected at least a few functionality features in 12 but nothing at all? Jesus. That's a bad sign. I would love to see a video, maybe 15 minutes long, a day in the life of Mattias at Reason Studio's so we could see what his day consists of. It feels like they don't do a lot to me, maybe a video would prove me wrong and there are reasons behind it all. Hopefully, as others have stated on Facebook, R+ will enable them to roll out more updates with workflow enhancements and this 12 browser and graphics thing etc was just laying the groundwork as it had be done. Fingers crossed.
Yea. If it was just laying the groundwork though, imo it should have been a point update.
Thank you for voicing the frustations of long-term Reason fans. Like how you refuse to give Reason studios "props". Very funny :)
Lol thanks for checking it out! 🙏🏻 It's true though.. I love Reason, but I'm also going to call out their crap.
@@matthewstuartnz Same, there's genuine magic and 20 years of glow effect around the product but outside of limited VST rack use, it's a tough sell. They sat on their hands for too long.
Yea.. I hope they do, but honestly I've wondering if they are too far gone to recover from this.
the radical plugins delete and install again....but yea its crazy how the browser and transport not HD
yea I know this now. A bit silly it's like that though.
I been on reason over 15 years.... what daw do you recommend if it was time to make that change? 🤔
Honestly, I'd try a few cause it's totally personally preference. Pretty much any of them will be a good choice. I really like Ableton because of the workflow, but Studio One is what I usually recommend to people who don't have an idea of what they want to use already. If you prefer a more traditional workflow, I'd start with Studio One and if you don't like that, check out Ableton. But Logic, Reaper, Cubase, FL Studio, and Bitwig all come highly recommended by a lot of people.
@@matthewstuartnz I appreciate it... been on reason for almost 2 decades and I'm disappointed with the progress
Studio One has a monthly sub model too but it looks pretty legit. That could be a really great way to try it for a few months before committing.
@@matthewstuartnz imma look into it and abelton
Let me know what one you decide to go with!
Ableton Live 11 - Reason Rack vst!
👌🏻
I actually think these updates are better for daw than rrp. Things like the right click to assign to combi controls do not work in rrp even though it states you can in rack plugin manual. Mimic cannot even read ableton live samples even though they use live in most of their videos. They definitely work better in the daw.
Yea, they definitely work better in the DAW, which is frustrating becuase a lot of people don't want to use it. 🤦🏼♂️
@@matthewstuartnz yeah I use rrp in live. Using my trial of + to test 12. Combinator2 has lots of potential and mimic has a few nice touches but not worth £129 for me personally.
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING. REASON PLUS KIND OF MADE ME UPSET WITH THE SUBSCRIPTION ASPECT BUT IT IS GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHO CANT AFFORD TO BUY THE FULL VERSION.
Yea I think there are definitely pros of Reason+ but I understand why a lot of people don't like it.
12 is a meh update. 11 Suite was a buy for me once it was discounted, it made the instruments and FX into a rack VST which was a huge winner. Now I mostly use the rack in Live11 and Cubase. That's no diss to Reason Studios, because I've skipped some Cubase updates. RS make great and unique instruments and FX, but they just don't appear to have the staff, and they don't have investors with any risk appetite to add the necessary staff to compete with Live, Cubase, Logic, Studio One, etc.
It's the staff and investors that concern me.
If reason plus didn't exist all of their new instruments would've been included in this release. This release is so lackluster because it is meant to push everyone towards the subscription model. Either subscribe or move on but I wouldn't suggest being optimistic about the future for long time reason users.
Yea, I'm surprised they didn't include the new instruments in the release.
Anything that came with Reason 12 would have been a feature for a minor .1 release update. I don't see much of an improvement on the patch browser. We still can't even friggin' sort favorite lists alphabetically!
Yea, Reason 12 was definitely a point update. 🤦🏼♂️
I said it before, new CEO new rules, that mostly means more revenue. But not always better product
Gutted 😭
@@matthewstuartnz the most wierdest rack extention is the New combinator. I get it why they did this, to accomodate the newly users in other daw's. But I don't get it in perspective to the current userbase. In my opinion this release could have been a Reason 11.5 one.
I've bought the upgrade to support them, but am I satisfied, no.
Yea Reason 12 feels like a point update.
Hopefully the developers are listening ( I know they never do lol). They need to hire more people to properly develop this daw (or just make it a plug in only which seems to be what they really want) and stop trying to sell the DAW via a guy on a webcam or 2 minute videos. I'm prepared to move on if they go plug in only as I'm sure many Reason only people are out there. You can only take so much weak DLC. The new Combinator is really nice but I don't see anything else its offering I can't do with 10. It's like they just ignore the competition and figure it will be slipstreamed into competing daws.
Yea.. these are all good points.
They're so lazy they didn't even update the tool icons for the MIDI sequencer... they're still low res and stick like a sore thumb
🤦🏼♂️
Tell them to add a function like Blue Cats Patchwork for vst midi devices to control other devices,Cause Me And Reason Studios DON'T TALK ANYMORE !!!
Lol fair enough. Honestly, I think they see a lot of the comments. They just don't listen.
Thank you for saving me from another impulse buy! Maybe you can help talk me out of other stupid decisions sometime? ;)
Lol you're welcome? 😅
Same….I was hoping for much more but I am a casual user at this point. I use Logic and bounce back and forth.
You enjoy Logic?
@@matthewstuartnz Logic is kind of going in the same direction as reason. I like most of the virtual instruments in logic but I still get more done in reason. I am OLD. So the features needed for hip hop and such just don’t get used much for me on either daw. I record live instruments for the most part.
Everyone bitchin about reason clearly doesnt make music. Me with my shit $300 laptop and kitchen counter top setup still manages to make the best and push reason to its max potential.
Just make MUSIC.
👌🏻
ok! but what about that jacket?
hahahahaha !!!
😂
This is the first time a Reason update won't work on my computer. Every action is way too long or too slow Its just inusable..
Gutted. Sorry to hear that 😭
couldn’t agree more of this topic. sometimes i look at Presonus Studio One as the alternate universe of Reason I’ve expected to be if they serious developing the daw ..
Reason could have been so cool...