For me reason makes me creative, it’s the daw I find it easiest to finish full tracks in and I create a lot of custom patches and combis in reason. I’ve tried live, bitwig and Cubase and I just don’t end up making as much finished music in any of them.
I find the opposite, there's too many frustrating missing features like midi chase pointed out here in Reason. You come up against too many things missing that stop you progressing in your track because you have to divert your attention away from creating by thinking how do I do that now. Your can't just çarry on with the music because so many features are missing that halt your progress.
It seems obvious where if you have used other DAWs like Ableton, then try to go back to Reason, you are going to run into issues with adjusting to a less feature packed sequencer
@@pnutbuttajellee1394 I find live great in many ways. But I find that I finish my work in reason. Live gives me "loopitis" so I rarely use it any more.
i think it makes more sense to describe to what type of music creator each of it suits best than making a pragmatic comparison. They are not, either to be the same, or beat each other. I worked with reason many years ago and find it cool that it still has a place of respect. It means it worked well for many for a long time. I find it a niche kind of source. I hope they continue developing it to take the best out of today's concepts to enhance their classic means of use.
Trying standalone after not using it for a few years made it painfully obvious. My original plan was to make my whole demo track in standalone but I couldn't do it. I felt like I was just hitting up against walls with every other thing I was trying to do.
In my humble opinion, Reason needs to: - Bring down the price of their main product back to where it was before - Offer a Suite version (again) where they can justify charging more - Take clues from Roland Cloud's "Play for Life" offer to make the Reason+ subscription more appealing by letting customers keep one of the Reason Studio's Rack Extensions after a year of subscription.
All i need in Reason are track folders, everything else works perfectly, i don't want or need anything else, that includes everything that comes with R13. Looks like R12 is my daw for life.
I have intermittently upgraded my Reason license since v1.0. O.G! 😂 I've skipped generations of it here and there over the years. In recent years, I don't think I've upgraded it since maybe 2019 or 2020. I was contemplating upgrading again and found this video. I agree with just about everything said here. Honestly, I've never really used Reason as anything other than a synth/sound generator, ie, as a plugin with occasional sequencing of loops and pads or controller data for one of the Reason synths. I've never recorded audio in it to my recollection, except maybe as an experiment. There was an era where I used it as a beat slicer for a while, but that went by the wayside. I always loved the 'behind the rack' paradigm of wiring things up, and I've always enjoyed some of the sounds I could get out of some of their instruments. After all these years, they should have tons of instruments, synths, and generators happening. They're clearly brilliant people developing the software. I guess it's just a very small team with an 'insulated' vision of what they like and need.
The upgrade price from 10 to 13 was £119 at Black Friday season. To get Reason + for a year, it's also £119. I chose to get + PLUS because it comes with so many instruments and players that are not included in the upgrade. To add these devices it would be at least £500 extra to the owned version of 13. Made more sense to get + PLUS.
Generally, I really don't have a problem with subscription models. I don't think there's that much of an argument to be made for owning your software. I think Reason Plus is a great deal. I just wish there was a cheaper option for people to choose.
@@matthewstuartnz I'm Reason for life. Nothing against other DAWs, I just love Reason's vibe. However, as a paying user since v1, I am pissed about the subscription model and refuse to do it. A: I don't like that if I ever can't afford it, I lose access to the devices in my songs, and B: I have been a loyal customer for almost the entire life of the company. I'm insulted that owners are given such piddling updates.
I like all the DAWs. I don't have anything against anyone. I used FL Studio for 6 years (my first DAW), I have Ableton Live Lite, Logic Pro and tried a bunch of others. However, rn I just like Reason the most. You just can't compare the look and feel of a DAW and how well you can work with it on paper. Yeah, FL got free lifetime updates, however, everything they released in the last 5 years was not interesting to me, or at least not enough to give it another go, since the workflow is so different (and worse IMO). I think Ableton is great but I just dislike using it because of the navigation in the sequencer and it looks like a spreadsheet (dont get me wrong, I like the modern look but compared to Reason it's a sterile operating room, especially the devices). Now a days it's just not the software holding me back. My favorite music was made with software 10 years ago. I bet they didn't have MIDI chase back then. Great video and a fair comparison. However, too often new features sound great on release but rarely get adopted into the normal workflow. Reason needs to speed up their development for sure, however, for now I will stick to it. Have a nice weekend everyone.
Yea everything you've said spot on. It's all good to talk about feature sets but at the end of the day that isn't what's stopping people from making music.
How many non Reason users could go into an analogue studio and use, say a patchbay or understand a true signal flow, at least Reason can educate people on how an analogue studio works!
I totally agree, the educational aspect is really important and with the use of more 'One nob effects' the more that less inexperienced producer's learn or understand, what they are actually doing.
I've wanted to use Reason as an educational tool with students for over a decade but I can never justify it because it's not accessible enough for most students when there are other options that are basically free or very cheap.
@matthewstuartnz True, it is expensive, I've been using Reason since version 5 and renewed the perpetual licence for every paid update. As well as a vast amount of RE's. I've never added up what the costs have been over the years, probably best that I don't, otherwise my wife might have a good reason for a good rant. On top of this all of the monitor speakers headphones and controllers. I think you can see where this is going. Keep making music!
Haha yea I have no idea how much I've spent on software.. but I have a database of everything in my studio for my insurance company and that's a scary number to look at 😅
All about Logic for me atm. Cubase-ish feel when working with MIDI and audio. Clip launching like Live, aliased clips, stem splitting, great stock sounds, RRP as a MIDI effect, note chase (obviously), integrated folder and bus tracks, again like Live, pattern clips, shortcuts for EVERYTHING. I'd say it's damn near perfect. The only things I prefer from Reason are the automation clips, and the ability to address an insert effect via MIDI. Like, it is possible. Ish. But you have to screw around with routing too much to make it work. Still get a warm fuzzy feeling when I open Reason and get the virtual toys out. But it's now only used as a plugin, or as a playground/lab for experimenting. And I guess that's fine? I don't understand what's involved in coding because...I'm not a software developer. So I can't say how easy it should be for us to get X feature. Some things seem like such low hanging fruit (note chase, note preview on arrow nudge, custom hotkeys). Some maybe require huge reworks to Reason (multi-timbrality, MPE). The half dozen things I've been desperate for mostly fall into the low hanging category, IMO. I do miss writing in Reason. But I don't miss the workarounds. So for now it is what it is. Always ready to come back to it if things change though!
I like logic. I have it but haven't spent enough time on it to get really fast. I agree regardign automation clips though. I always liked being able to see them right there.
Mattias said it was because it was too much work to update three schemes and the new black is slightly more in the middle between the old black and the old blue (if I am remembering correctly).
All of Reason history can bee summed up in one line dude: A DAW that refused to allow VST/ AU plugin functionality clear up until version 10, to a DAW that no longer wants to be a DAW at all and decided its actually a VST/AU plugin.
On top of everything else - Ableton Live IS a completely standalone device of the highest quality that is tightly integrated now. Reason pretends to be an instrument rack while Ableton is actually a profoundly powerful next-level instrument.
Omg I can't believe I never thought of that! 😂 We're out here comparing Ableton without even talking about the fact that Push can operate as an incredibly powerful standalone instrument 🤯
I am able to do anything I want in Reason, but I have been really shocked at how they have been treating their users who keep asking for features that are now old hat in other DAWs. I used Reason back in 2004, then again in 2008. Then I stopped and reinstalled it in 2020 wanting to get back into music. And I found that the community had died. It's dead. There used to be Reason refill websites, a Propellerhead music conference, well-known producers promoting Reason, and a thriving online community. It's all gone because Reason has been so stubbornly silent in addressing user complaints over features they've been asking for over a decade now! Like... why? Why not just do it? So now, even though I love Reason for my own personal use, I find that the product I rely on so much might be a sinking ship and is completely disregarded by the broader producer community. And to boot, they for some reason made the decision to stop making their awesome high-quality TH-cam tutorials and replaced those with amateur user-generated content and long, rambling live streams. Why would they do that? It's like they're self-sabotaging.
Yea, I used to think their TH-cam tutorials were some of the best in the game. And I know what you mean about not addressing things. I've made the comparison that I think Reason is a bit like Apple in the sense that they can seem late to the game with implementing features that their competition has. The difference is, when Apple releases a feature, it's rock solid and awesome. Recently, It's felt a lot like when Reason releases a feature, it's half-baked and lazy. I thought their roadmap they released after 12 was a good step in the right direction. And, after some delays, they did end up doing what they said they would. But they haven't really kept up with the dialogue.
My main gripes is their license model where they leave off certain modules in the "full" perpetual license and only include it in the subscription model. They are late with some features and like you said don't really listen to the community, but as a user of multiple DAW's, I can tell you Reason even in 2024 is pure magic. Sure other DAW's have some exclusive interesting features but when it comes to streamlining production and mixing + mastering, Reason is superb. The ability to mix on the fly with the spectrum and SSL mixer is unmatched, along with their auto-organization of everything. The built-in pitch correction into the sequencer for vocalists again is unmatched. These are the great qualities of Reason and the other big DAW's like FL and Ableton for example also have their own great qualities. The other DAW I use a lot is FL and also love it. My point is not every company will be perfect. Some took off more based on various factors, but Reason is still very much up there in terms of the program itself and it doesn't need to be popular for you to use it for decades to come. Producers from various DAW's collaborate via stems. Not as much creator content as FL and Ableton, but neither is Bitwig and a handful of others, but they still have a solid combined following among social media and I wish them prosperity.
Reason is still a staple of the underground dubstep community but that's specifically because of Malstrom's square4 waveform; if it wasn't for that it'd be completely dead.
Imagine if they had hired Ekssperimental Sounds to do make his REs (which are hilariously expensive, by the way) as native devices. Reason would be looking a lot more interesting.
His analog modelling and ability to add nice sounding noise, hum & feedback to stuff is second to none. I love his stuff, I love how voltage controlled his synths sound too.
I think every DAW has his philosophy and advantage. I think to choose one Main DAW combined with Vst Versions of other DAWs or what ever, in these Days are the Way to go.Its nice to have again a bit of Viriness to it.
Something as simple as markers still not available in 2024. Beyond the simple qol stuff though, the whole daw is just too far behind. It's a shame because it's fun to work with, but you really have to jump through hoops to do serious work. And for a daw that takes pride in an analog workflow, where's the analog sound? Why isn't there summing? Where are the vintage compressors and eqs? Why do they pretend that is an ssl mixer? It's a cartoon rendition. And how about update those old, old rack devices. 20+ year old code. I can go on, but I'm just pissing in the wind. I'm just bummed because I like the damn thing and want it to be successful.
I feel you man. I haven't even thought about the mixer in ages. It's a shame they don't make more of an effort to update it seeing as once upon a time it was a big selling point. But they haven't even given it dark mode 🤦🏼♂️
oof this one hits. you nailed it in a way that only a well travelled reasoner could. hey. got any suggestions? I'm deep in the reason game, but I don't own it.
Thanks much for the follow-up. My thought is that they should not allow it to be opened as a standalone DAW inside another DAW. They should really just make the improvements people want to see in the standalone DAW. There's so much potential and a chance for them to be back in the upper echelon of DAWs if they just...listen to their customers. I like the new update, but I've been exploring other DAWs Ableton and Studio One over the last couple of years., and like you, I also use Maschine. I think the thing that's kept me from committing full time to another DAW is that none of the other DAWs are as inspiring to me upon opening it as Reason had been over the years. Visually, there is no other DAW as stunning as Reason. That keeps me hanging on. However, I think I will make the tough decision to commit to another DAW as a companion to Maschine...with Reason as a Rack Plugin. I'll likely still make beats in Reason from time to time. We'll see.
I think they should just improve the standalone version too.. But I don't think they will so I suggested what I think would be a good compromise (and remove the pressure to add all the workflow features in standalone). Basically, I don't think they will ever improve standalone enough (although that would be the best result I think) and so I think they should change direction with the product.
We're just regurgitating the same complaints since the last few versions. We complained enough for them to listen to the lacking sequencer when we thought they were abandoning the stand-alone DAW. yet now they claim in their behind the scenes they had to figure out what was lacking that needed change.
It's hard to directly compare feature sets cause they do slightly different things.. I generally think Ableton's implementation of the MIDI tools is better and easier to work with the Reason's players (especially using the Reason Rack Plugin), but there is a lot to love about Reason's players.
I take a pragmatic view. Those missing features and tools, how often do you really need them? Sure there are situations you would love to have them and it might slow you down, but in the end this has rather a minor effect on your work and art. Those who now switch from Reason to Ableton, are they now producing better music?
I see what you're saying and that might apply to the specific differences in the 12.1 update. But honestly, the features and tools that Ableton has that Reason doesn't are things that I use all the time and have a major effect on what I can create.
I agree that a complete version of Reason in a plug-in would be awesome. Lack of VST’s in the plug-in is such a shortcoming. I used Reason from version 1 but gave up with it. It is still great fun to use but they obviously don’t have the resources to compete anymore. I would love to start using it again and a complete plug-in with piano roll and VST’s would give me the excuse that I need.
Unfortunately it becomes harder and harder to justify using Reason as anything but a 'fun' choice. Which is great if you don't have to choose one or the other with something else.
Good video! I have Ableton 12 (awesome with Max) and FL Studio 24 (always terrific for quick mad scientist vibes). But Reason 13 remains my go to music production tool (a user since Rebirth was released in the 90s) when I am not in Avid. The rack is so familiar to hardware and the sound quality is always top rate! Sorry, but the synths in Live and Fl Studio just are not comparable to the Reason devices for me. Grateful I can afford to dabble in different DAWs. In my view, if you enjoy working with hardware, Reason will often be a good fit. If you primarily like working with software, then there are numerous other options for a beginner that are way cheaper (e.g., Reaper). The one downside of being a Propellerhead fan for decades is that they always do what they want to do regardless of what users say. But in their defense, I have always had the most consistent fun making music on a computer using their products. Peace!
Hey : keep in mind that 12 was $199 for upgraded combinator - VST 3 - support and HD GUI, 50 samplers not one proper pitch stretching tool 🤣🤣 if one is REASON 1.0 to 13 user, what is the value of reason now $1500 ? Also have you noticed that NI gives ZERO shits about updating Maschine Now : these are your words " EVERYTHING IN REASON SEEMS UNFINISHED" and I agree with this statement 100% Cheers 🥂 🥂
NI is on a MUCH slower update cycle based around hardware first. They released the Maschine+ four years ago and have recently refreshed their Komplete Kontrol keyboards and have been updating their software desgin. I think the Maschine Mk4 and Maschine 3 will be next in order to bring them in line with the new keyboards. I really hope the Maschine Mk4 has MPE pads though.
Last reason I had was 6. On a whim I tried whatever Live version that was out at the time. Never looked back. The workflow for reason was just such PITA! With Live and Bitwig .. the limiting factor is ME. I can do anything I want and fast.
"the limiting factor is ME".. I think that's a good way to put it. I think I feel the same way. The whole reason I switched to Live was cause there were specific things I felt were limiting me in Reason. I haven't found that yet in Live.
Reason can do no wrong in my eyes as long as it remains a rack and keeps the current stock instruments, effects, etc. I am an audio engineer and enjoy the whole rack method of using cables to make different and unique connections that cannot be done in other daws. Whatever stock plugins people believe its lacking, or their problems with its sequencer, mixer, or some other things, isn't a problem of mine.
I’ve been using Reason since the Record/Reason days. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to turn Reason into a groove box. Something akin to Push. But Reason Studios again too caught up in nickle and diming their customers. Their videos feel a bit out of touch. I will keep them around because I use a lot of their instruments in other DAWs. But they need to make drastic changes to the fluidity of the browser dragging and dropping. More sample warping options. Make the sequencer as fluid as the rack. They should’ve hired me years ago but whatever. Here we are.
I used Reason up until 11. Nobody hates Reason more than people who truly love it and wish it didnt suck in all the ways that it sucks. Its constantly looking over at the "other guys" and copying their homework now. It has to be whoever is making decisions at the top. Management or something. Maybe they were not prioritizing the happiness of their most productive and talented software engineers and lost them, so they are slowly suffering from corporate brain drain - I dont know, but something has been wrong and the magic has been missing for a while now.
"Nobody hates Reason more than people who truly love it and wish it didnt suck in all the ways that it sucks." I like this comment. People often tell me to stop hating or just more on but I think this sums up why I haven't. Yea.. It'd be nice to know what actually happened.
Same here. I had reason since version 4, still have the boxes for every upgrade. I stopped using it at version 11 and started using Ableton and never looked back. I figured I would use it as a VST but the workflow is just that much better in Ableton. I wish they would actually revamp it and stop with the gimmicks but it is what it is. No real innovation it’s just stuck.
I agree, Reason 13 should have been a free update. I still love the program but I won't be upgrading to 13, I'll wait till 14 or a point update if they add more to make it worth upgrading.
I'd really like to see the stats on their sales and marketing data. I'm super interested in what percentage of the user based is genuinely stoked with Reason and what demographic these users are.
Reason 13 runs on more PC hardware. Not all of us can afford to upgrade computers for a DAW update. I’m still using Ableton 11 for when I have to play live but for me personally, Reason 13 is the best DAW for creating left to right music timelines to export as songs. I also subscribe to the Blockhead DAW patreon. These two DAWs take wildly different approaches. I’m not 100 percent ableton because the arrangement view is not that intuitive for me.
Yeah I find reason much more inspirational than live. I tend to compose more easily in reason, live tends to give me loopitis. I also find myself creating deeply stacked custom combinators in reason and that just doesn’t happen for me in live.
I recently got the Cubase 13 upgrade. Normal upgrade cost is 129, but I got it for 69 on sale. Came with an astonishing amount of stuff for the money. When I saw the upgrade cost of Reason 13, and what it included, I actually laughed out loud and was embarrassed for the company and anyone who would be conned by it.
@@matthewstuartnz I thought about getting Reason+. But I already have all but two of their REs outside of 13, and the stuff that comes with 13 isn't world changing. They don't release instruments and effects often enough that Reason+ is worthwhile because of what I already have. I'll probably buy Objekt this year. That's all they're gonna get me for.
Pretty sure you can go into NI controller editor and set the option for Maschine to control host transport, so when you open it as a VST the controller play/stop etc functions.
as a Reason user since reason 2 I am sadly going to move to another daw which I don't want to do, Reason has sort of always been a little bit behind with features I remember how long it took them to add the ability to record into Reason and how long it took them to add vst support I see this new update as embarrassing, it has got to the point were they are so far behind but what they are choosing to add to the daw is not what people want, I have seen many people actually say they prefer the old browser and the fact they took away the favorites menu is a downgrade. I wont be buying another version of Reason again they have lost a long time user :(
Yea I didn't noticed that about the browser cause I didn't use that feature but tons of people have said that to me. I don't mind a company being a little behind the pack as long as when they release a feature they do it well. I think Apple is a good example of this. Unfortunately though, lately Reason has been falling further behind and releasing features that I still think are just sub par.
I feel the same , Reason user from 2000 and hard to believe, that I am thinking about Ableton, the new upgrade killed my workflow, no option's, and they took away a blue theme, can't handle this new browser and tool window so annoying, I was good with only edit area on the top.My subscription ends in December and I have Reason 12 license and lots of devices, but still paying for Plus , for sure if they will not give us a choice and make really notable changes , I am out too, I have Ableton lite , I'll start there
Live Lite will let you test the waters. And if you decide you like it and don't need/want all the Ableton stock stuff, Standard would be the way to go.
@@djshmul1 my friend. Trust me you should fall in love with Ableton. Just make sure you learn how to use Session View first to create the start (or ideas of a track) then transfer them over into the “Arrange View”. This in my opinion is the best way to use Ableton Live
I have Reason 13, Ableton 12 and Maschine 3 and Reaper. I use them all a little, but I don't care if one has an update that adds more features than another. A DAW doesn't always need more. Reason for me is about being super creative. I like seeing everything visually and able to quickly move cables or build completely modular effects using combinators. You can certainly do all that with Ableton, but I find the interface to be no so inspiring. And while I love how I can load up expansions and instruments in Maschine and get creative, I quickly lose my desire to build further in it. I think if I was forced to use only one DAW, it would definitely be Reason. The new Reason 13.1 added a slew of crazy new midi/note tools. It makes being creative rather easy!
Dang. I use the capture thing in live all the time. It’s one of my favorite features. I’ll just jam over something for a few minutes then go back and check out what I did if I started to like what I was doing. But yeah, it’s really sad what’s happening to reason. They can’t decide if they want to be a daw or a synth rack. I kind of feel like they don’t have anyone there to work on the DAW side anymore. Even with the instruments, you can tell they are being lazy. I’ve complained about mimic before. It’s the perfect example of how they leave off the most basic features that people using samplers for chopping would need. Hopefully they come out with a .5 update or something.
I think a point update is much needed if they want to keep people happy.. But I'd rather they just announce a change in direction. I should give the capture thing I go. I think I just never tried it so it's not at the front of my mind when it comes to messing with stuff 😅
If you know the workflow, it doesn't matter which DAW you use. If you don't know, then you blame the DAW for your ignorance. After all, all you need is a piano roll, one instrument and a couple of effects. You can make all the sounds by yourself with just that one instrument if you know how. If you are a professional and know everything there is to know, only then can I understand that a particular DAW can speed up or make the process easier for you. But in fact there are no shortcuts.
Honestly. I think this is really lame . Most guys complaining couldn't write a decent track to begin with no matter how many bells and whistles they have and I've heard some great tracks written on reason 3. Hell I've seen some amazing things done with juat the maelstrom alone. So whatever. I love reason and I love ableton for different reasons and I use both.
People go buy 3rd party vst"s to use in reason..but dont wanna pay for they plugins thats for sale. People want them for free 😂.... ALL DAWS HAVE PROS AND CONS...i test them all the time...its about what you know and what you do. Shalom
Holy shit. Still no note chase? That should have been addressed like 10 years ago. I remember that being the most annoying part of reason. How much time is wasted that you have to go back to the start of the midi clips. Especially parts with drones.
To be fair, it took Ableton Live over 20 years to get these features users been asking for. That being said, Reason has been around since 1997 haha. Anyway, I wouldn't trade Ableton for anything. People try to convince me switching over to Bitwig but I won't do that.
When they locked the high res refresh behind upgrading to 12 I knew I was done with reason. Even if they do fix all the stuff we’ve been complaining about for years ,like the awful midi editing that is so far behind EVERYONE, we would have to pay hundreds for it. Honestly wish we were in a different timeline where they didn’t ruin what I thought to be the most refreshing DAW of the bunch.
That's mainly how I use it these days. Every now and then I dabble with one of the instruments but because I also have Komplete and NI controllers I find I tend to favour those
@@tymantis incredibly frustrating for no reason and has been incredibly frustrating since forever. Makes no sense to me why this piece has remained the way it is after 13 “major” updates. The sad thing is the use of multiple midi lanes for one sound is such a cool idea completely botched by the fact that the midi snapping in reason is so annoying. It being so close to being good is what’s so infuriating.
Reason 13 is dope...this comming from a person that only makes trap beats. The synths and and dark tones in their instruments or really good. Dont let the daw control your creativity.
I still have that Record box too! I have it and a number of other physical Reason versions, I was using it since version 2.5. I switched to Ableton after Reason 13 was announced. It was honestly death by a thousand cuts for me. I'm extremely sad about it as Reasons skewmorphism is what made me fall in love with it - and I still love it. But at some point I realised that brand loyalty was keeping me around. Reason+ was the beginning of the end for me. I used to be able to just buy Reason, but being pushed to subscribe monthly to get the full range of Propellerhead devices was a non-starter for me. Note chase, track grouping and midi clip looping were the immediate features I found in Ableton when using the trial that made me realise I could never go back, and now I'm like, wait a minute, these are such basic features - it's inexcusable that Reason doesn't have them!
Haha yea, you'll find you keep stumbling on features like that in Ableton that you realise just make so much sense. Another one that I really love (if you haven't discovered it yet) is if you hold down Cmd you can click and drag up or down on a MIDI note and it will change velocity. Makes making expressive edits super quick and easy in the piano roll.
Oh yea, it's a great one. Another thing I do in my default session is set the 'D' (caps lock matters) key to be the stop button. That way you can always push it twice to get back to the start of the track. Otherwise there isn't a keyboard shortcut for that unfortunately. If I think of any other useful tricks, I'll let you know.
he's such a cool dude. I sure do like the Players. They get a lot of hate, but you know what they say "don't hate the player, tell them what note chase is and break their mind" thanks for that. considering a tracker, actually, but it's kind of a nostalgic thing. do you find that switching to a tracker is a good way to have a bad time, or should I try it? I used to make mod files, if you know those. (it broke my heart when you read that box, btw) also, I dont fully grasp what it is, but I'm surprised maschine even powers up with that s in the middle of it.
Honestly, since the departure of Ernst Nathorst, the new CEO has focused on marketing and business models rather than on innovation and implementing current standards.
Innovation is basically illegal when your company has been besieged by a venture capital firm, which Reason Studios has. Only thing on the agenda is to maximize profits from existing assets with as little investment as possible. It's happening to NI as well.
I been on reason since BEFORE record. I remember wishing reason would add vocal input. It was just sound production. I've seen and witnessed reason growth since the beginning. Dedicated and faithful user. I can make reason do " Anything" !. Although that note chase feature is a hurdle, but it can be overcome. I'll find a way. Reason is as deep as you wanna take it. Ijs. #reasonloverforlife
The reason upgrades are good for the reason user specifically but not good for the modern day producer in general. So if you are coming from another daw, you will miss a lot basic stuff that was at your finger tips.
Luna FREE only works with I lock, and I'm not doing that, so is unusable for Me. On that topic Reason 12.5 added a new offline register mode which was supposed to be for Plus users to be able to open Reason without always having a internet connection. The problem for Me is I'm a stand alone user and am expected to use that same system, and its annoying, you have to select a 1 month pass, or yearly pass and the yearly pass is only allowed to be on 1 computer. Currently I cant open Reason on My main laptop and its very annoying.
That does sound annoying.. How come you don't like ilok out of interest? I use it cause I have to but I don't love it. It's such an annoying piece of software
@@matthewstuartnz I dont use I lock because I dont want to have yet another thing to log into, before I make music, thats why I'm annoyed ablut having to log on for Reason Stand alone it basically defeats the perpose of a stand alone product. Also a interesting point as You show the Reason box, everything they do now is online, You cant buy a boxed and packaged product this saves them Millions of dollars, another example of Reason Studios maiximising profits but not delivering the value.
I wouldn't compare the means of Ableton to those of Reason Studio (I don't think they have the same financial or even personal means). Good things in the Reason 13 update but clumsily implemented (Reason's new browser is the main obstacle to my adoption of R13, Ableton's browser does just as well and even better while remaining dockable). the integration of the tools of the old F8 window is good but it takes up a quarter of the width of my sequencer on my MBP 14", I would like to be able to reduce it on the side when I don't need it. and there are other things that made me not really like the R13 update, I commented before watching the video, I just wanted to express my opinion on R13
I think the financial means angle is an interesting one. Cause on one hand I agree.. but on the other I wonder if they would have had the means if they were better at listening to the community and making better implementations.
The clickbait headline got me to watch just because I thought maybe it meant Ableton was actually amazing, but of course this account just turns out to be much the same as most other cynical rants by someone who happens to prefer one thing over another. Great to see that Ableton finally now has some of the limiter features that Reason has had for 19 years - hopefully it can catch up the rest of the way soon. And new M/S is a feature for a particular Ableton device, is it? While Reason has just been able to do M/S and multiband of almost anything almost anywhere for a lot longer than a decade. "All Reason did was took their preexisting tool window and move it over here." Nope. "Reason should be this." "Reason Studios should do this." Really? Reason is different. It has less functionality in some areas, more in others - compared to other DAWs. It's unrealistic to think a company with a relatively small user base can produce as much as the bigger companies. If you like it, use it. I use Cubase as well as Reason, and Cubase doesn't embarrass Reason at all.
Reason devlopers are never in tune with their users. They beat to their own drum and instead of innovating due to competition they just let you throw your daw into the competition. I surprised they are still around, they must do well with that subscription hustle they have going.By now Reason should be a top 5 DAW. I never hear it mentioned out there when folks are covering top DAWs.
To be fair, they added the ability to draw a ramp on velocity lanes in the tool area.... But let's be honest here, they can't even do QOL updates like adding new keyboards to their master keyboard list in the prefs. My Arturia keyboard can run FL Studio and Live almost completely and I don't expect that from Reason but it would be nice to have basic functionality without constantly assigning buttons.
To be fair, they did. And I appreciate that. But it's also such a tiny detail that to praise them for adding that in lieu of all the other MIDI tools they could add is awkward in itself. Omg that keyboard thing frustrates me to no end! Both my Native instrument Maschine and S49 controllers are basically useless in Reason 😭
What blows my mind is that Propellerhead's Rebirth is what gave the company a spot on the map and 20 + years later there is still no 303 stock in Reason. That literally should have been the first instrument within reason. And not through the Rebirth input machine crap.
@@matthewstuartnz I know man. Its so sad. Changed the name to reason studios. So lame. Changed the logo to a cube. Also so lame. And what the hell is up with the website. I'm about to pass out trying to navigate it. I loved Reason when it was lean and mean. It really forced creativity. Now it's bloated. Well everything in the music software world is bloated now I guess!
Bloated yet somehow still missing so much 🤦🏼♂️ I remember thinking that 'Reason Studios' was a name change that made sense (although I thought Propellerhead was better) given the exciting possibilities of the Reason Rack Plugin when they released that. But unfortunately, I really don't think they have lived up to the potential that we all hoped for.
I hope RS see this as it's a fantastic summary of just how poor value for money R13 is. It says a lot when by far the best thing about Reason Studios is... Ryan! I know he loves Reason but it feels like his talents as a presenter\educator\ambassador are wasted.
Ryan is great! I've always been a massive fan of his work. And I can guarantee Reason Studios will see this video. Unfortunately, I just don't think they really care.
Reason in 2024: As a VST, Reason is one of my favorites. The variety of sounds. The quirky stock effect devices. All nice and good but you already can see the horrors of the DAW by a few annoyances of the VST with their shit way to zoom and the enourmous space usage that is native to reason. The buttons are shit to click, you always misclick and then accidentally drag the device which can cause severe lags as everything is animated like a game. Just when writing this I hear you reading 'a fast, lean and ***rock solid*** production environment'. That shit is brittle like your mother on crack but when the crack is out. Dragging cables is fun for exactly 100 cables other than that its just annoying. By the way, the Midi Device, which is kind of a necessity for the VST in many cases cant have any presets. See next paragraph about the browser what fun that brings. The DAW deserves an award for the most shittiest user interface that exists and it got worse with Reason 13. Rack extensions in the new browser? No such thing! thats what the vertical side bar that still exists is for. Your favorites list, that contain rack extensions but no presets in reason 12? Gone in Reason 13. Well.. not gone.. but empty except for presets and sound files. I thought it was a bug but Matthias argued that this is the way they intended it to be (elegantly ignoring the favorites list issue as well as the fact that you cant find devices that have no presets in the browser whereas you can technnicall find devices that have as you can find their presets. That difference is badly to not at all communicated, so its just an entirely unneccessary bump in the user experience. Ima say it right here: Propellerhead should fire the ENTIRE UI team as these people have not the slightest clue of what theyre doing. There is no continuity, no familiraity and every fucking knob feels like you have to click it with a needle unless you dont want that one button to use up your entire screen. The arranger is a joke im not even talking about. They moved the hostile Tools window into the arranger. Who the fuck cares, Biggest issue wasnt that it was in a hostile (meaning it didnt behaved at all like any other window, pretty much like a VST window) window but that its features ARE pitiful. None of these features have been improved. There is no on the fly randomness, any randomness you can apply you have to immediately hardcode to midi. Endlessly looping arrangements are impossible (dont start with them fucking players as all of them have ridiculously low numbers of steps.. and their inconsistent UI and features, incapability to properly chain them except for primitively just passing midi from one to another.... brrrr.. its a Parabel about missed opportunities. Fuck bass player, Fuck chords player. Idea good, implementation like what the fuck). Now i talked about the arranger. fuck the arranger The mixer. 😫😫🥱🥱🤐🤐😗😗😆😆😅😅 i mean.. come on... 16 hardcoded (in number) send channels, (no more, no less!!!) and all knobs are there no matter what :joy: Fuck reason the DAW and in fact for a whopping twenty bucks per month, maybe fuck their VST as well. The thing i hate the most is their marketing like behavior in live streams. Like matthias and ryan are just petting their balls mutually about how great reason is. They always present it as not just a DAW but some kind of a lifestyle (thats my wording though, no quote). When BV8 was released a person in live chat (righteously) asked whether ALL parameters are modulatable. Almost every reason device has at least one knob you simply cant modulate. The settings you can modulate with the CV inputs are arbitrary. For full controll you need a combinator, also to see the modulation because the CV inputs just behaved like 1980s hardware did. Knobs werent following. But even in the combinator not all params can be modulated. This seems often to stem from the fact that they dont properly implement slots for sub devices where the sub devices can have different number of parameters. Like the kong effects. But im not sure, it might as well be that they just arbitrarily limited the amound of params to be modulated to 2. Anyways I wanted to talk about their live stream behavior. Now that person asked for bv8s settings and whether all of them can be modulated. Matthias on an attempt to give worlds worst performance of an elon musk impression demonstrating the bullet proof walls of the Tesla Truck, long before that truck was made. He responded 'Well yes. Well you can modulate I think all of them, i guess, probably' and then he just randomly picked on param and showed how that could be modulated and said 'look how I can modulate it, I dont know what you want'. I get angry watching this 😂. This is so far away from their pseudo hippie esk reputation they try to maintain but is nothing but shady business practices. Of course BV8 has unmodulateable params. Unsurprisingly the effects section is affected where they again decided to not properly map different types of params onto their sub devices. The only good thing about reasons UI is the fact that its full of bad examples for people learning UI design. Like for 99% of the aspect tha tmake up a user interface you can mention reason for telling how NOT to do it
These are actually really good (and I think fair) insights. I haven't thought about it for a while but I agree regarding the players step length. That is something that has bothered me in the past and I think they would be so much more powerful if they were longer.
Easy with your flow mate, I get it you from Midwest, but damn , don't try to sound like Strange Music...your bars are dope 💯, but this low grimey voice sounds very forced...
After using Reason for almost 15 years, I finally started thinking about switching to another DAW. If a loyal user starts thinking like this, something is really wrong.
@@matthewstuartnz yeah I have. I tried FL and Ableton and my choice would be Ableton as I really like the most of It's basic features. The workflow is brilliant. If I switch the daw then I wanna definitely keep using the reason as a plugin.
The point of comparison is that Reason users get less for the amount they pay for upgrades compared to other DAWs. If the upgrades were priced appropriately for the amount of 'new' stuff they're getting, then people wouldn't mind them no matter how little improvements they add for each version. You can 'use it, and ejoy it' sure, but that's letting a company get away with overpricing their products while they act like it's still the early 2000s.
Maschine is a better Reason, than Reason nowadays. When "Reason Studios" rumors leaked and there was rumor mill of a subscription model, I stopped supporting the product immediately, because I knew something was happening that I wouldn't like. More importantly, I knew "features" would dry up when 12 came out. I had been using it since 3 and people wanted to be able to do what you're suggesting since the ReWire days, but Reason is just too afraid of all the money they'd make doing it. I took my money elsewhere, got an upgrade from Komplete 3 & Ableton 8, now I use both together, without any regret and while I'll miss the old Propellerhead vibe of the Reason community, that community just doesn't exist anymore.
Yea, I'll admit I tend to favour Ableton and Maschine (Komplete) stuff these days. I still use a bunch of reason stuff but nowhere near as much as I used to.
Confused weakling at life is all I heard 😭 😢 😿 wahahhaa .. lol 🤦 remember, don’t hate the player[s]… “hate the game (now really sea this one .. have your best day and tomorrows will always be better. Duh 🙄.. ✌️ lo❤
Hey just stay with ableton....yes reason need features. But is it a deal breaker? Do it stops your workflow? People dont think about thinks untill they realize they need it now..before a feature came..people still created music.. abelton live nice.. but the GUI HORRIBLE has no inspiration at all
Reason just works better for me. I prefer the workflow. All this crybaby stuff is annoying and if you cannot make great music with Reason, sell insurance or something.
Yeah Reason's DAW can't compete with Ableton at all, in fact, why do they even still bother with their DAW? And the Reason perpetual license upgrade cost to 13? LMAO they are on some mighty fine crack. Reason rack is cool, unfortunately the Reason+ subscription price is way out of touch with reality. It should be no more than 10 bucks a month. I can guarantee they aren't getting many subscribers at 20 bucks a month, its stupid.
back in the ancient days I loved reason because it was so frictionless moving from a hardware workflow. However 20 something years later, they are still there, and the world have move on. Hell, even ableton was nice coming from trackers, but they adapted to the times (sometimes at a slow pace, finally they are having tags for plugins) but adapted anyway
Reason is no longer competing as a full complete proper main DAW... All they want is new subscribers. Not even interested in perpetual license owners... They just want you to use the rack plugin in live... As a subscriber, of course...
Oh boy, now you got me thinking about trying Ableton or Luna. I'm really a Reason user since 2005, but maybe it's time to switch. I heavily rely on Dr Rex loops, maybe it's the reason I'm not to leaving Reason yet (pun unintended).
Honestly, I would give Live a go. You can always use your Rex loops in the Reason Rack Plugin inside Ableton if you really miss them. Make sure you go into it with the expectation that it's probably going to take a week or two to get the hang of Ableton cause it is a bit different if you're really used to the Reason workflow. But I have no regrets about the switch. I think Ableton is better from a workflow point of view in virtually every way. And the company is consistently adding new and cool stuff with every release (as you can see in this video haha). Also, if you ever fancy getting a Push controller, it works AWESOME with Ableton.
@Bitwig embarrasses Ableton. Ableton doesn’t even allow you to edit clips…that’s absolutely ridiculous 😂 And Ableton just now in version 12 allows you to see all the workflow.😂
@@matthewstuartnz been using Ableton for over 15 years, and you still can’t edit your clips in the session view…you can’t cut, copy, or paste anything…you can only stretch quantize and use automation. In Bitwig, you can do ANYTHING…you can actually ADD more source material….it’s phenomenal. I love working with clip editing in Bitwig, it’s a dream to work with…
Oh you mean like change MIDI notes inside a clip but from arrangement view? If that's what you're talking about, LUNA can do that.. and I hate it 😅 I do not want Ableton to add that at all haha
@@matthewstuartnz no, I mean audio. If you populate a clip slot with an audio sample, you can’t do simple edits, you can’t cut cop or paste anything…. The most fundamental thing in music production can not be done with an audio clip in the session view…it’s the most ridiculous thing ever.
Because I actually still love Reason and hope that by providing constructive criticism it might actually help improve a product I use regularly (but feel could be better).
@@matthewstuartnz if you change the perspective from end user to business, you will agree, that the future for Reason as a DAW is not competitive anymore. There are way too many better DAW alternatives out there….so look at it as if Reason rewinded back to version 1.0 where it was just a sound module and has its best success… As a business it would beca waste of money trying to continue a route that just didn’t work out in the end…Reason is now what it was meant to be actually 😉
Reason is 🗑 I tried using Reason back in the day and then tried again 2 years ago (with the plug-ins inside my own DAW) and it just wasn’t worth the money to pay per month. They should just trash the DAW and become a Plugin company. The workflow is not intuitive, fast or easy to use. Making music should be fun not a chore.🙄
@@matthewstuartnz $0.00 I’d rather buy my plug-ins outright instead of paying for them for 10, 15 or 20+ years no matter how cheap it is. … it sucks to pay for something, and if you decide to stop paying for it, you end up with nothing, not even an older version. You know what Imean?
For me reason makes me creative, it’s the daw I find it easiest to finish full tracks in and I create a lot of custom patches and combis in reason. I’ve tried live, bitwig and Cubase and I just don’t end up making as much finished music in any of them.
Great reason to stick with it!
I find the opposite, there's too many frustrating missing features like midi chase pointed out here in Reason. You come up against too many things missing that stop you progressing in your track because you have to divert your attention away from creating by thinking how do I do that now. Your can't just çarry on with the music because so many features are missing that halt your progress.
@@simontunnicliffe2107 What can I say other than I don't miss things I never used.
It seems obvious where if you have used other DAWs like Ableton, then try to go back to Reason, you are going to run into issues with adjusting to a less feature packed sequencer
@@pnutbuttajellee1394 I find live great in many ways. But I find that I finish my work in reason. Live gives me "loopitis" so I rarely use it any more.
i think it makes more sense to describe to what type of music creator each of it suits best than making a pragmatic comparison. They are not, either to be the same, or beat each other. I worked with reason many years ago and find it cool that it still has a place of respect. It means it worked well for many for a long time. I find it a niche kind of source. I hope they continue developing it to take the best out of today's concepts to enhance their classic means of use.
4:07 Yes not having note chase is annoying so I bounce midi to audio, and if I need to edit something I bounce it to audio again.
That's a good idea. But an annoying workaround. I feel like we shouldn't have to be doing things like that at this point.
@@matthewstuartnz I think alot of Reason users don't realise what We are missing out on.
Trying standalone after not using it for a few years made it painfully obvious. My original plan was to make my whole demo track in standalone but I couldn't do it. I felt like I was just hitting up against walls with every other thing I was trying to do.
@@matthewstuartnz yeah Reason standalone pain and they made it worse
Where there a will, there's a way.@holla
In my humble opinion, Reason needs to:
- Bring down the price of their main product back to where it was before
- Offer a Suite version (again) where they can justify charging more
- Take clues from Roland Cloud's "Play for Life" offer to make the Reason+ subscription more appealing by letting customers keep one of the Reason Studio's Rack Extensions after a year of subscription.
Those are all excellent suggestions.
All i need in Reason are track folders, everything else works perfectly, i don't want or need anything else, that includes everything that comes with R13. Looks like R12 is my daw for life.
Track folders are honestly so helpful
I have intermittently upgraded my Reason license since v1.0. O.G! 😂 I've skipped generations of it here and there over the years. In recent years, I don't think I've upgraded it since maybe 2019 or 2020. I was contemplating upgrading again and found this video. I agree with just about everything said here. Honestly, I've never really used Reason as anything other than a synth/sound generator, ie, as a plugin with occasional sequencing of loops and pads or controller data for one of the Reason synths. I've never recorded audio in it to my recollection, except maybe as an experiment. There was an era where I used it as a beat slicer for a while, but that went by the wayside. I always loved the 'behind the rack' paradigm of wiring things up, and I've always enjoyed some of the sounds I could get out of some of their instruments. After all these years, they should have tons of instruments, synths, and generators happening. They're clearly brilliant people developing the software. I guess it's just a very small team with an 'insulated' vision of what they like and need.
Just went from 10 to 13 for like 70 sumthin bucks...the sales are the only reason lol probably won't upgrade again.
Yea, I think you're right. What software do you use for recording? Have you tried the Reason Rack Plugin?
The upgrade price from 10 to 13 was £119 at Black Friday season. To get Reason + for a year, it's also £119. I chose to get + PLUS because it comes with so many instruments and players that are not included in the upgrade. To add these devices it would be at least £500 extra to the owned version of 13.
Made more sense to get + PLUS.
Generally, I really don't have a problem with subscription models. I don't think there's that much of an argument to be made for owning your software. I think Reason Plus is a great deal. I just wish there was a cheaper option for people to choose.
@@matthewstuartnz I'm Reason for life. Nothing against other DAWs, I just love Reason's vibe. However, as a paying user since v1, I am pissed about the subscription model and refuse to do it. A: I don't like that if I ever can't afford it, I lose access to the devices in my songs, and B: I have been a loyal customer for almost the entire life of the company. I'm insulted that owners are given such piddling updates.
Yea, I agree with your point A. I think that's definitely a problem.
I upgraded from 7(!) to 13 last week for USD$79 🙌
I like all the DAWs. I don't have anything against anyone. I used FL Studio for 6 years (my first DAW), I have Ableton Live Lite, Logic Pro and tried a bunch of others. However, rn I just like Reason the most. You just can't compare the look and feel of a DAW and how well you can work with it on paper. Yeah, FL got free lifetime updates, however, everything they released in the last 5 years was not interesting to me, or at least not enough to give it another go, since the workflow is so different (and worse IMO). I think Ableton is great but I just dislike using it because of the navigation in the sequencer and it looks like a spreadsheet (dont get me wrong, I like the modern look but compared to Reason it's a sterile operating room, especially the devices).
Now a days it's just not the software holding me back. My favorite music was made with software 10 years ago. I bet they didn't have MIDI chase back then.
Great video and a fair comparison. However, too often new features sound great on release but rarely get adopted into the normal workflow. Reason needs to speed up their development for sure, however, for now I will stick to it. Have a nice weekend everyone.
Yea everything you've said spot on. It's all good to talk about feature sets but at the end of the day that isn't what's stopping people from making music.
How many non Reason users could go into an analogue studio and use, say a patchbay or understand a true signal flow, at least Reason can educate people on how an analogue studio works!
I think that is one of the cool things about the rack. Especially when it comes to music education
I totally agree, the educational aspect is really important and with the use of more 'One nob effects' the more that less inexperienced producer's learn or understand, what they are actually doing.
I've wanted to use Reason as an educational tool with students for over a decade but I can never justify it because it's not accessible enough for most students when there are other options that are basically free or very cheap.
@matthewstuartnz True, it is expensive, I've been using Reason since version 5 and renewed the perpetual licence for every paid update. As well as a vast amount of RE's. I've never added up what the costs have been over the years, probably best that I don't, otherwise my wife might have a good reason for a good rant. On top of this all of the monitor speakers headphones and controllers. I think you can see where this is going. Keep making music!
Haha yea I have no idea how much I've spent on software.. but I have a database of everything in my studio for my insurance company and that's a scary number to look at 😅
All about Logic for me atm. Cubase-ish feel when working with MIDI and audio. Clip launching like Live, aliased clips, stem splitting, great stock sounds, RRP as a MIDI effect, note chase (obviously), integrated folder and bus tracks, again like Live, pattern clips, shortcuts for EVERYTHING. I'd say it's damn near perfect. The only things I prefer from Reason are the automation clips, and the ability to address an insert effect via MIDI. Like, it is possible. Ish. But you have to screw around with routing too much to make it work.
Still get a warm fuzzy feeling when I open Reason and get the virtual toys out. But it's now only used as a plugin, or as a playground/lab for experimenting. And I guess that's fine? I don't understand what's involved in coding because...I'm not a software developer. So I can't say how easy it should be for us to get X feature. Some things seem like such low hanging fruit (note chase, note preview on arrow nudge, custom hotkeys). Some maybe require huge reworks to Reason (multi-timbrality, MPE). The half dozen things I've been desperate for mostly fall into the low hanging category, IMO. I do miss writing in Reason. But I don't miss the workarounds. So for now it is what it is. Always ready to come back to it if things change though!
I like logic. I have it but haven't spent enough time on it to get really fast. I agree regardign automation clips though. I always liked being able to see them right there.
I'm wondering why they got rid of my favorite color scheme, "blue". Why would they do that? Why would they make that effort?
Mattias said it was because it was too much work to update three schemes and the new black is slightly more in the middle between the old black and the old blue (if I am remembering correctly).
I like reasons 13 better because it’s like digital hardware and it even sounds like it .
Polytone is super cool
All of Reason history can bee summed up in one line dude: A DAW that refused to allow VST/ AU plugin functionality clear up until version 10, to a DAW that no longer wants to be a DAW at all and decided its actually a VST/AU plugin.
That's hilarious 😆
@@matthewstuartnz 🤘🏻
On top of everything else - Ableton Live IS a completely standalone device of the highest quality that is tightly integrated now. Reason pretends to be an instrument rack while Ableton is actually a profoundly powerful next-level instrument.
Omg I can't believe I never thought of that! 😂 We're out here comparing Ableton without even talking about the fact that Push can operate as an incredibly powerful standalone instrument 🤯
@@matthewstuartnz lol yeah man my sentiments exactly. Glad Im not alone in that.
I think an interesting question is whether or not 'good software' is simply a sum of its features
I would think so? As long as features includes UI considerations
I'm looking for a new DAW specifically to avoid Maschine II's lack of note chase, very glad I saw this
Has maschine 3 fixed note chase? I haven't actually tested that yet. But yea, stay clear of Reason if note chase is an issue for you.
Midi chase has to be my 2nd most wanted feature behind linked clips and undo history.
It's so helpful
I am able to do anything I want in Reason, but I have been really shocked at how they have been treating their users who keep asking for features that are now old hat in other DAWs. I used Reason back in 2004, then again in 2008. Then I stopped and reinstalled it in 2020 wanting to get back into music. And I found that the community had died. It's dead. There used to be Reason refill websites, a Propellerhead music conference, well-known producers promoting Reason, and a thriving online community. It's all gone because Reason has been so stubbornly silent in addressing user complaints over features they've been asking for over a decade now! Like... why? Why not just do it?
So now, even though I love Reason for my own personal use, I find that the product I rely on so much might be a sinking ship and is completely disregarded by the broader producer community. And to boot, they for some reason made the decision to stop making their awesome high-quality TH-cam tutorials and replaced those with amateur user-generated content and long, rambling live streams. Why would they do that? It's like they're self-sabotaging.
Yea, I used to think their TH-cam tutorials were some of the best in the game. And I know what you mean about not addressing things. I've made the comparison that I think Reason is a bit like Apple in the sense that they can seem late to the game with implementing features that their competition has. The difference is, when Apple releases a feature, it's rock solid and awesome. Recently, It's felt a lot like when Reason releases a feature, it's half-baked and lazy. I thought their roadmap they released after 12 was a good step in the right direction. And, after some delays, they did end up doing what they said they would. But they haven't really kept up with the dialogue.
Its good that there is no reason refill websites anymore because its a fucking proprietary format without good reason. That format just needs to die.
My main gripes is their license model where they leave off certain modules in the "full" perpetual license and only include it in the subscription model. They are late with some features and like you said don't really listen to the community, but as a user of multiple DAW's, I can tell you Reason even in 2024 is pure magic. Sure other DAW's have some exclusive interesting features but when it comes to streamlining production and mixing + mastering, Reason is superb. The ability to mix on the fly with the spectrum and SSL mixer is unmatched, along with their auto-organization of everything. The built-in pitch correction into the sequencer for vocalists again is unmatched. These are the great qualities of Reason and the other big DAW's like FL and Ableton for example also have their own great qualities. The other DAW I use a lot is FL and also love it.
My point is not every company will be perfect. Some took off more based on various factors, but Reason is still very much up there in terms of the program itself and it doesn't need to be popular for you to use it for decades to come. Producers from various DAW's collaborate via stems. Not as much creator content as FL and Ableton, but neither is Bitwig and a handful of others, but they still have a solid combined following among social media and I wish them prosperity.
Reason is still a staple of the underground dubstep community but that's specifically because of Malstrom's square4 waveform; if it wasn't for that it'd be completely dead.
Imagine if they had hired Ekssperimental Sounds to do make his REs (which are hilariously expensive, by the way) as native devices. Reason would be looking a lot more interesting.
I haven't ever looked at those 🤯
His analog modelling and ability to add nice sounding noise, hum & feedback to stuff is second to none. I love his stuff, I love how voltage controlled his synths sound too.
I think every DAW has his philosophy and advantage. I think to choose one Main DAW combined with Vst Versions of other DAWs or what ever, in these Days are the Way to go.Its nice to have again a bit of Viriness to it.
Something as simple as markers still not available in 2024. Beyond the simple qol stuff though, the whole daw is just too far behind. It's a shame because it's fun to work with, but you really have to jump through hoops to do serious work. And for a daw that takes pride in an analog workflow, where's the analog sound? Why isn't there summing? Where are the vintage compressors and eqs? Why do they pretend that is an ssl mixer? It's a cartoon rendition. And how about update those old, old rack devices. 20+ year old code. I can go on, but I'm just pissing in the wind. I'm just bummed because I like the damn thing and want it to be successful.
I feel you man. I haven't even thought about the mixer in ages. It's a shame they don't make more of an effort to update it seeing as once upon a time it was a big selling point. But they haven't even given it dark mode 🤦🏼♂️
oof this one hits. you nailed it in a way that only a well travelled reasoner could. hey. got any suggestions? I'm deep in the reason game, but I don't own it.
I started with Reason, first DAW I learned. And I feel the same way
Thanks much for the follow-up. My thought is that they should not allow it to be opened as a standalone DAW inside another DAW. They should really just make the improvements people want to see in the standalone DAW. There's so much potential and a chance for them to be back in the upper echelon of DAWs if they just...listen to their customers. I like the new update, but I've been exploring other DAWs Ableton and Studio One over the last couple of years., and like you, I also use Maschine. I think the thing that's kept me from committing full time to another DAW is that none of the other DAWs are as inspiring to me upon opening it as Reason had been over the years. Visually, there is no other DAW as stunning as Reason. That keeps me hanging on. However, I think I will make the tough decision to commit to another DAW as a companion to Maschine...with Reason as a Rack Plugin. I'll likely still make beats in Reason from time to time. We'll see.
I think they should just improve the standalone version too.. But I don't think they will so I suggested what I think would be a good compromise (and remove the pressure to add all the workflow features in standalone). Basically, I don't think they will ever improve standalone enough (although that would be the best result I think) and so I think they should change direction with the product.
Excellent Follow up Video! 👊🏻✊🏻
Thank you 🙏
We're just regurgitating the same complaints since the last few versions. We complained enough for them to listen to the lacking sequencer when we thought they were abandoning the stand-alone DAW. yet now they claim in their behind the scenes they had to figure out what was lacking that needed change.
Yea..
What about Reason players. Are they better than new Ableton midi tools?
It's hard to directly compare feature sets cause they do slightly different things.. I generally think Ableton's implementation of the MIDI tools is better and easier to work with the Reason's players (especially using the Reason Rack Plugin), but there is a lot to love about Reason's players.
I take a pragmatic view. Those missing features and tools, how often do you really need them? Sure there are situations you would love to have them and it might slow you down, but in the end this has rather a minor effect on your work and art. Those who now switch from Reason to Ableton, are they now producing better music?
I see what you're saying and that might apply to the specific differences in the 12.1 update. But honestly, the features and tools that Ableton has that Reason doesn't are things that I use all the time and have a major effect on what I can create.
I agree that a complete version of Reason in a plug-in would be awesome. Lack of VST’s in the plug-in is such a shortcoming. I used Reason from version 1 but gave up with it. It is still great fun to use but they obviously don’t have the resources to compete anymore. I would love to start using it again and a complete plug-in with piano roll and VST’s would give me the excuse that I need.
Unfortunately it becomes harder and harder to justify using Reason as anything but a 'fun' choice. Which is great if you don't have to choose one or the other with something else.
Good video! I have Ableton 12 (awesome with Max) and FL Studio 24 (always terrific for quick mad scientist vibes). But Reason 13 remains my go to music production tool (a user since Rebirth was released in the 90s) when I am not in Avid. The rack is so familiar to hardware and the sound quality is always top rate! Sorry, but the synths in Live and Fl Studio just are not comparable to the Reason devices for me. Grateful I can afford to dabble in different DAWs. In my view, if you enjoy working with hardware, Reason will often be a good fit. If you primarily like working with software, then there are numerous other options for a beginner that are way cheaper (e.g., Reaper). The one downside of being a Propellerhead fan for decades is that they always do what they want to do regardless of what users say. But in their defense, I have always had the most consistent fun making music on a computer using their products. Peace!
Thanks for the great comment! Yea, I think Reason will always in in terms of overall fun vibes.
Hey : keep in mind that 12 was $199 for upgraded combinator - VST 3 - support and HD GUI, 50 samplers not one proper pitch stretching tool 🤣🤣
if one is REASON 1.0 to 13 user, what is the value of reason now $1500 ?
Also have you noticed that NI gives ZERO shits about updating Maschine
Now : these are your words " EVERYTHING IN REASON SEEMS UNFINISHED" and I agree with this statement 100%
Cheers 🥂 🥂
NI is on a MUCH slower update cycle based around hardware first. They released the Maschine+ four years ago and have recently refreshed their Komplete Kontrol keyboards and have been updating their software desgin. I think the Maschine Mk4 and Maschine 3 will be next in order to bring them in line with the new keyboards. I really hope the Maschine Mk4 has MPE pads though.
@@matthewstuartnz I have so much to say : but the comments is not the place : I will reply later with more cohesive ideas
Be keen to hear your thoughts!
@@EBMZEQUENZER oi
Last reason I had was 6.
On a whim I tried whatever Live version that was out at the time.
Never looked back. The workflow for reason was just such PITA!
With Live and Bitwig .. the limiting factor is ME. I can do anything I want and fast.
"the limiting factor is ME".. I think that's a good way to put it. I think I feel the same way. The whole reason I switched to Live was cause there were specific things I felt were limiting me in Reason. I haven't found that yet in Live.
Reason can do no wrong in my eyes as long as it remains a rack and keeps the current stock instruments, effects, etc. I am an audio engineer and enjoy the whole rack method of using cables to make different and unique connections that cannot be done in other daws. Whatever stock plugins people believe its lacking, or their problems with its sequencer, mixer, or some other things, isn't a problem of mine.
Fair enough. Do you ever work in other DAWs or just in Reason?
@@matthewstuartnz I gave up on protools, cubase, logic, reaper, FL Studios, and maschine. Only work in Reason now.
I’ve been using Reason since the Record/Reason days. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to turn Reason into a groove box. Something akin to Push. But Reason Studios again too caught up in nickle and diming their customers. Their videos feel a bit out of touch. I will keep them around because I use a lot of their instruments in other DAWs. But they need to make drastic changes to the fluidity of the browser dragging and dropping. More sample warping options. Make the sequencer as fluid as the rack. They should’ve hired me years ago but whatever. Here we are.
Yea, I used to get so excited about a new Reason release. I would still love to be on the product development team though haha
I used Reason up until 11. Nobody hates Reason more than people who truly love it and wish it didnt suck in all the ways that it sucks. Its constantly looking over at the "other guys" and copying their homework now. It has to be whoever is making decisions at the top. Management or something. Maybe they were not prioritizing the happiness of their most productive and talented software engineers and lost them, so they are slowly suffering from corporate brain drain - I dont know, but something has been wrong and the magic has been missing for a while now.
"Nobody hates Reason more than people who truly love it and wish it didnt suck in all the ways that it sucks." I like this comment. People often tell me to stop hating or just more on but I think this sums up why I haven't. Yea.. It'd be nice to know what actually happened.
Same here. I had reason since version 4, still have the boxes for every upgrade. I stopped using it at version 11 and started using Ableton and never looked back. I figured I would use it as a VST but the workflow is just that much better in Ableton. I wish they would actually revamp it and stop with the gimmicks but it is what it is. No real innovation it’s just stuck.
I still use it regularly as a VST but tbh I think I wouldn't miss it if I was forced to stop using it. Which I think says something.
I agree, Reason 13 should have been a free update. I still love the program but I won't be upgrading to 13, I'll wait till 14 or a point update if they add more to make it worth upgrading.
I feel like if they dont go all in with reason 14 that's it they are done
Yea I think if you're already on 12 and don't particularly want want either polytone or ripley then 13 is an easy miss.
I'd really like to see the stats on their sales and marketing data. I'm super interested in what percentage of the user based is genuinely stoked with Reason and what demographic these users are.
Probably mostly idiots and Reason fanboys@@matthewstuartnz
😂
Reason 13 runs on more PC hardware. Not all of us can afford to upgrade computers for a DAW update. I’m still using Ableton 11 for when I have to play live but for me personally, Reason 13 is the best DAW for creating left to right music timelines to export as songs. I also subscribe to the Blockhead DAW patreon. These two DAWs take wildly different approaches. I’m not 100 percent ableton because the arrangement view is not that intuitive for me.
Fair enough. The arrangement view is a little different if you're not used to it. What is Blockhead DAW? I've never heard of it
@@matthewstuartnz I’ve used ableton mostly for the session view and edited the recorded arrangements elsewhere. Had it since v4.
Yeah I find reason much more inspirational than live. I tend to compose more easily in reason, live tends to give me loopitis.
I also find myself creating deeply stacked custom combinators in reason and that just doesn’t happen for me in live.
I've recently started getting into session view. I really like it now.
Do you use live for anything anymore?
I recently got the Cubase 13 upgrade. Normal upgrade cost is 129, but I got it for 69 on sale. Came with an astonishing amount of stuff for the money.
When I saw the upgrade cost of Reason 13, and what it included, I actually laughed out loud and was embarrassed for the company and anyone who would be conned by it.
Yea, I didn't see the cost initially cause I'm on Reason+. But I was pretty taken aback when people pointed it out to me.
@@matthewstuartnz I thought about getting Reason+. But I already have all but two of their REs outside of 13, and the stuff that comes with 13 isn't world changing.
They don't release instruments and effects often enough that Reason+ is worthwhile because of what I already have.
I'll probably buy Objekt this year. That's all they're gonna get me for.
Fair enough. Objekt is pretty cool
Iconica Sketch alone is worth double the upgrade price!
@@garrettbrown1871 It really is! And after the upgrade, they dropped the free stuff. They really know how to make their customers feel appreciated.
Pretty sure you can go into NI controller editor and set the option for Maschine to control host transport, so when you open it as a VST the controller play/stop etc functions.
Oh really?? Does that work when it's operating as a VST or would that only be when it's in MIDI mode?
I never ever have the problem of working on a drone and the bassline in the same track
Haha fair enough
as a Reason user since reason 2 I am sadly going to move to another daw which I don't want to do, Reason has sort of always been a little bit behind with features I remember how long it took them to add the ability to record into Reason and how long it took them to add vst support I see this new update as embarrassing, it has got to the point were they are so far behind but what they are choosing to add to the daw is not what people want, I have seen many people actually say they prefer the old browser and the fact they took away the favorites menu is a downgrade. I wont be buying another version of Reason again they have lost a long time user :(
Yea I didn't noticed that about the browser cause I didn't use that feature but tons of people have said that to me. I don't mind a company being a little behind the pack as long as when they release a feature they do it well. I think Apple is a good example of this. Unfortunately though, lately Reason has been falling further behind and releasing features that I still think are just sub par.
I feel the same , Reason user from 2000 and hard to believe, that I am thinking about Ableton, the new upgrade killed my workflow, no option's, and they took away a blue theme, can't handle this new browser and tool window so annoying, I was good with only edit area on the top.My subscription ends in December and I have Reason 12 license and lots of devices, but still paying for Plus , for sure if they will not give us a choice and make really notable changes , I am out too, I have Ableton lite , I'll start there
Live Lite will let you test the waters. And if you decide you like it and don't need/want all the Ableton stock stuff, Standard would be the way to go.
@@djshmul1 my friend. Trust me you should fall in love with Ableton. Just make sure you learn how to use Session View first to create the start (or ideas of a track) then transfer them over into the “Arrange View”. This in my opinion is the best way to use Ableton Live
Session view is great. I didn't use it at all for the first couple of years but since getting Push it's added a whole new dynamic to the way I work.
I have Reason 13, Ableton 12 and Maschine 3 and Reaper. I use them all a little, but I don't care if one has an update that adds more features than another. A DAW doesn't always need more. Reason for me is about being super creative. I like seeing everything visually and able to quickly move cables or build completely modular effects using combinators. You can certainly do all that with Ableton, but I find the interface to be no so inspiring. And while I love how I can load up expansions and instruments in Maschine and get creative, I quickly lose my desire to build further in it. I think if I was forced to use only one DAW, it would definitely be Reason. The new Reason 13.1 added a slew of crazy new midi/note tools. It makes being creative rather easy!
That's a good way of looking at it. If I had to choose one I think it would be Ableton. I like the Push integration too much at this point.
Dang. I use the capture thing in live all the time. It’s one of my favorite features. I’ll just jam over something for a few minutes then go back and check out what I did if I started to like what I was doing. But yeah, it’s really sad what’s happening to reason. They can’t decide if they want to be a daw or a synth rack. I kind of feel like they don’t have anyone there to work on the DAW side anymore. Even with the instruments, you can tell they are being lazy. I’ve complained about mimic before. It’s the perfect example of how they leave off the most basic features that people using samplers for chopping would need. Hopefully they come out with a .5 update or something.
I think a point update is much needed if they want to keep people happy.. But I'd rather they just announce a change in direction. I should give the capture thing I go. I think I just never tried it so it's not at the front of my mind when it comes to messing with stuff 😅
If you know the workflow, it doesn't matter which DAW you use. If you don't know, then you blame the DAW for your ignorance. After all, all you need is a piano roll, one instrument and a couple of effects. You can make all the sounds by yourself with just that one instrument if you know how. If you are a professional and know everything there is to know, only then can I understand that a particular DAW can speed up or make the process easier for you. But in fact there are no shortcuts.
Yea, I generally agree. In my case there were specfic things that Reason couldn't allow me to do (or do very well) that Ableton could though.
Honestly. I think this is really lame . Most guys complaining couldn't write a decent track to begin with no matter how many bells and whistles they have and I've heard some great tracks written on reason 3.
Hell I've seen some amazing things done with juat the maelstrom alone.
So whatever. I love reason and I love ableton for different reasons and I use both.
People go buy 3rd party vst"s to use in reason..but dont wanna pay for they plugins thats for sale. People want them for free 😂.... ALL DAWS HAVE PROS AND CONS...i test them all the time...its about what you know and what you do. Shalom
Reason standalone as a vst Plugin is a great Point ..
I hadn't even thought about it👍
It would be cool right!
Holy shit. Still no note chase? That should have been addressed like 10 years ago. I remember that being the most annoying part of reason. How much time is wasted that you have to go back to the start of the midi clips. Especially parts with drones.
Yup.. I remember when I first tried a DAW with note chase haha. I was like oh this is how MIDI is supposed to work 😂
To be fair, it took Ableton Live over 20 years to get these features users been asking for. That being said, Reason has been around since 1997 haha. Anyway, I wouldn't trade Ableton for anything. People try to convince me switching over to Bitwig but I won't do that.
Yea, my opinion would probably be different if Reason was a new company.. But I'm pretty sure they have been around longer than Ableton.
When they locked the high res refresh behind upgrading to 12 I knew I was done with reason.
Even if they do fix all the stuff we’ve been complaining about for years ,like the awful midi editing that is so far behind EVERYONE, we would have to pay hundreds for it.
Honestly wish we were in a different timeline where they didn’t ruin what I thought to be the most refreshing DAW of the bunch.
Yea, it felt more fun when it was Propellerhead. Which version are you on now? Or do you not use it at all?
@@matthewstuartnz 11 only use the vst for effects in ableton.
No other use for it really, never cared much for the sounds it came with.
That's mainly how I use it these days. Every now and then I dabble with one of the instruments but because I also have Komplete and NI controllers I find I tend to favour those
Editing midi in Reason is very frustrating and is one of the reasons why I stopped using Reason
@@tymantis incredibly frustrating for no reason and has been incredibly frustrating since forever. Makes no sense to me why this piece has remained the way it is after 13 “major” updates.
The sad thing is the use of multiple midi lanes for one sound is such a cool idea completely botched by the fact that the midi snapping in reason is so annoying. It being so close to being good is what’s so infuriating.
Reason 13 is dope...this comming from a person that only makes trap beats. The synths and and dark tones in their instruments or really good.
Dont let the daw control your creativity.
Are you saying I only make trap beats? 😅
@@matthewstuartnz no I only make trap beats lol
Haha oh right sorry I misread your comment! 😅
I still have that Record box too! I have it and a number of other physical Reason versions, I was using it since version 2.5.
I switched to Ableton after Reason 13 was announced. It was honestly death by a thousand cuts for me. I'm extremely sad about it as Reasons skewmorphism is what made me fall in love with it - and I still love it. But at some point I realised that brand loyalty was keeping me around.
Reason+ was the beginning of the end for me. I used to be able to just buy Reason, but being pushed to subscribe monthly to get the full range of Propellerhead devices was a non-starter for me.
Note chase, track grouping and midi clip looping were the immediate features I found in Ableton when using the trial that made me realise I could never go back, and now I'm like, wait a minute, these are such basic features - it's inexcusable that Reason doesn't have them!
Haha yea, you'll find you keep stumbling on features like that in Ableton that you realise just make so much sense. Another one that I really love (if you haven't discovered it yet) is if you hold down Cmd you can click and drag up or down on a MIDI note and it will change velocity. Makes making expressive edits super quick and easy in the piano roll.
@@matthewstuartnzooop that one is new to me! Thanks for the tip! I've just been using the velocity controls on the bottom :D
Oh yea, it's a great one. Another thing I do in my default session is set the 'D' (caps lock matters) key to be the stop button. That way you can always push it twice to get back to the start of the track. Otherwise there isn't a keyboard shortcut for that unfortunately. If I think of any other useful tricks, I'll let you know.
Once again Reason Studios is overcharging for an underwhelming product and Ryan is trying to polish a turd as best as he can
Poor Ryan
he's such a cool dude. I sure do like the Players. They get a lot of hate, but you know what they say "don't hate the player, tell them what note chase is and break their mind"
thanks for that. considering a tracker, actually, but it's kind of a nostalgic thing. do you find that switching to a tracker is a good way to have a bad time, or should I try it? I used to make mod files, if you know those. (it broke my heart when you read that box, btw)
also, I dont fully grasp what it is, but I'm surprised maschine even powers up with that s in the middle of it.
Honestly, since the departure of Ernst Nathorst, the new CEO has focused on marketing and business models rather than on innovation and implementing current standards.
Innovation is basically illegal when your company has been besieged by a venture capital firm, which Reason Studios has. Only thing on the agenda is to maximize profits from existing assets with as little investment as possible.
It's happening to NI as well.
Who took over NI?
Yea I don't feel like the new CEO has done anything that's impressed me.
@@glutenenjoyer__ Why do Studio One (PreSonus), owned by Fender, and Steinberg (owned by Yamaha) continue to innovate then?
@@matthewstuartnz They have joined with Brainworx and Plugin Alliance
I been on reason since BEFORE record. I remember wishing reason would add vocal input. It was just sound production. I've seen and witnessed reason growth since the beginning. Dedicated and faithful user. I can make reason do " Anything" !. Although that note chase feature is a hurdle, but it can be overcome. I'll find a way. Reason is as deep as you wanna take it. Ijs. #reasonloverforlife
The ppl at reason need to wake up
Yeeeaaa....
The reason upgrades are good for the reason user specifically but not good for the modern day producer in general. So if you are coming from another daw, you will miss a lot basic stuff that was at your finger tips.
This is a great way of putting it.
Reason is the DAW that better suits my needs. And the best DAWs after Reason are Cakewalk and Reaper.
I’m not ever updating Reason again.
You think you'll still keep using it?
@@matthewstuartnz I’ll use it because I only use Reason to make beats. Eventually I’ll jump ship to Ableton or FL studio
It'll be worth it I think. Especially if you keep the Reason Rack Plugin
Luna FREE only works with I lock, and I'm not doing that, so is unusable for Me. On that topic Reason 12.5 added a new offline register mode which was supposed to be for Plus users to be able to open Reason without always having a internet connection. The problem for Me is I'm a stand alone user and am expected to use that same system, and its annoying, you have to select a 1 month pass, or yearly pass and the yearly pass is only allowed to be on 1 computer. Currently I cant open Reason on My main laptop and its very annoying.
That does sound annoying.. How come you don't like ilok out of interest? I use it cause I have to but I don't love it. It's such an annoying piece of software
@@matthewstuartnz I dont use I lock because I dont want to have yet another thing to log into, before I make music, thats why I'm annoyed ablut having to log on for Reason Stand alone it basically defeats the perpose of a stand alone product. Also a interesting point as You show the Reason box, everything they do now is online, You cant buy a boxed and packaged product this saves them Millions of dollars, another example of Reason Studios maiximising profits but not delivering the value.
Can you buy boxed versions of any DAW these days?
@@matthewstuartnz the really fun part is when it breaks with an update and you realize that there is no customer support of any sort (:
Haha yea, I have had issues with that in the past actually..
I wouldn't compare the means of Ableton to those of Reason Studio (I don't think they have the same financial or even personal means).
Good things in the Reason 13 update but clumsily implemented (Reason's new browser is the main obstacle to my adoption of R13, Ableton's browser does just as well and even better while remaining dockable).
the integration of the tools of the old F8 window is good but it takes up a quarter of the width of my sequencer on my MBP 14", I would like to be able to reduce it on the side when I don't need it.
and there are other things that made me not really like the R13 update, I commented before watching the video, I just wanted to express my opinion on R13
I think the financial means angle is an interesting one. Cause on one hand I agree.. but on the other I wonder if they would have had the means if they were better at listening to the community and making better implementations.
The clickbait headline got me to watch just because I thought maybe it meant Ableton was actually amazing, but of course this account just turns out to be much the same as most other cynical rants by someone who happens to prefer one thing over another. Great to see that Ableton finally now has some of the limiter features that Reason has had for 19 years - hopefully it can catch up the rest of the way soon. And new M/S is a feature for a particular Ableton device, is it? While Reason has just been able to do M/S and multiband of almost anything almost anywhere for a lot longer than a decade. "All Reason did was took their preexisting tool window and move it over here." Nope. "Reason should be this." "Reason Studios should do this." Really? Reason is different. It has less functionality in some areas, more in others - compared to other DAWs. It's unrealistic to think a company with a relatively small user base can produce as much as the bigger companies. If you like it, use it. I use Cubase as well as Reason, and Cubase doesn't embarrass Reason at all.
You're right of course. It ultimately comes down to personal preference.
Uograde went on sale for just over 100 cad . For that price I got it
It was a good price.
Reason devlopers are never in tune with their users. They beat to their own drum and instead of innovating due to competition they just let you throw your daw into the competition. I surprised they are still around, they must do well with that subscription hustle they have going.By now Reason should be a top 5 DAW. I never hear it mentioned out there when folks are covering top DAWs.
Yea, I don't even think it's in the conversation of Top DAWs.
I would be a fultime Reason 13 user if the SEQ was better and it had Rec in and out
Yea, I wouldn't have moved either if they had just fixed some quality of life issues I was having.
Matthias as the product manager has to go and let someone else take over the direction.
I like Mattias.. but I also have no idea what he does so can't really comment haha
@@matthewstuartnz u should watch one of the latest video how they made reason 13.
I watched that.. and still have no idea about what they really do 😅
😅😅😅 *Laughs in Renoise, Smiles in Hexadecimal*
😅
Keep in mind reason Studio Worked 😔 2 years For 13
Even more insane when you add the years they worked on 12.
To be fair, they added the ability to draw a ramp on velocity lanes in the tool area....
But let's be honest here, they can't even do QOL updates like adding new keyboards to their master keyboard list in the prefs. My Arturia keyboard can run FL Studio and Live almost completely and I don't expect that from Reason but it would be nice to have basic functionality without constantly assigning buttons.
To be fair, they did. And I appreciate that. But it's also such a tiny detail that to praise them for adding that in lieu of all the other MIDI tools they could add is awkward in itself. Omg that keyboard thing frustrates me to no end! Both my Native instrument Maschine and S49 controllers are basically useless in Reason 😭
Its a daw that refused vst. Then is about to become a vst
haha the irony
What blows my mind is that Propellerhead's Rebirth is what gave the company a spot on the map and 20 + years later there is still no 303 stock in Reason. That literally should have been the first instrument within reason. And not through the Rebirth input machine crap.
Yea.. It sucks cause they have such a rich history and I feel like they are wasting it
@@matthewstuartnz I know man. Its so sad. Changed the name to reason studios. So lame. Changed the logo to a cube. Also so lame. And what the hell is up with the website. I'm about to pass out trying to navigate it. I loved Reason when it was lean and mean. It really forced creativity. Now it's bloated. Well everything in the music software world is bloated now I guess!
Bloated yet somehow still missing so much 🤦🏼♂️ I remember thinking that 'Reason Studios' was a name change that made sense (although I thought Propellerhead was better) given the exciting possibilities of the Reason Rack Plugin when they released that. But unfortunately, I really don't think they have lived up to the potential that we all hoped for.
@@garrettbrown1871Yeah the company definitely had a different feel during the Propellerhead days.
ppl tend to want more, even someone with a tracker with 4channels like Amiga can do better music than ppl nagging about I want this and that...
I hope RS see this as it's a fantastic summary of just how poor value for money R13 is. It says a lot when by far the best thing about Reason Studios is... Ryan! I know he loves Reason but it feels like his talents as a presenter\educator\ambassador are wasted.
Ryan is great! I've always been a massive fan of his work. And I can guarantee Reason Studios will see this video. Unfortunately, I just don't think they really care.
agree ableton destroyed the competition by ending the cash cow mentality of the others and going for mass reach instead. smart.
When you have an infinite product (digital) and your range of possible prices is so small, I think this is the way to go for sure.
Studio one is the best .
Studio One is great!
Reason in 2024:
As a VST, Reason is one of my favorites. The variety of sounds. The quirky stock effect devices. All nice and good but you already can see the horrors of the DAW by a few annoyances of the VST with their shit way to zoom and the enourmous space usage that is native to reason. The buttons are shit to click, you always misclick and then accidentally drag the device which can cause severe lags as everything is animated like a game. Just when writing this I hear you reading 'a fast, lean and ***rock solid*** production environment'. That shit is brittle like your mother on crack but when the crack is out. Dragging cables is fun for exactly 100 cables other than that its just annoying. By the way, the Midi Device, which is kind of a necessity for the VST in many cases cant have any presets. See next paragraph about the browser what fun that brings.
The DAW deserves an award for the most shittiest user interface that exists and it got worse with Reason 13. Rack extensions in the new browser? No such thing! thats what the vertical side bar that still exists is for. Your favorites list, that contain rack extensions but no presets in reason 12? Gone in Reason 13. Well.. not gone.. but empty except for presets and sound files. I thought it was a bug but Matthias argued that this is the way they intended it to be (elegantly ignoring the favorites list issue as well as the fact that you cant find devices that have no presets in the browser whereas you can technnicall find devices that have as you can find their presets. That difference is badly to not at all communicated, so its just an entirely unneccessary bump in the user experience. Ima say it right here: Propellerhead should fire the ENTIRE UI team as these people have not the slightest clue of what theyre doing. There is no continuity, no familiraity and every fucking knob feels like you have to click it with a needle unless you dont want that one button to use up your entire screen.
The arranger is a joke im not even talking about. They moved the hostile Tools window into the arranger. Who the fuck cares, Biggest issue wasnt that it was in a hostile (meaning it didnt behaved at all like any other window, pretty much like a VST window) window but that its features ARE pitiful. None of these features have been improved. There is no on the fly randomness, any randomness you can apply you have to immediately hardcode to midi. Endlessly looping arrangements are impossible (dont start with them fucking players as all of them have ridiculously low numbers of steps.. and their inconsistent UI and features, incapability to properly chain them except for primitively just passing midi from one to another.... brrrr.. its a Parabel about missed opportunities. Fuck bass player, Fuck chords player. Idea good, implementation like what the fuck). Now i talked about the arranger. fuck the arranger
The mixer. 😫😫🥱🥱🤐🤐😗😗😆😆😅😅 i mean.. come on... 16 hardcoded (in number) send channels, (no more, no less!!!) and all knobs are there no matter what :joy:
Fuck reason the DAW and in fact for a whopping twenty bucks per month, maybe fuck their VST as well.
The thing i hate the most is their marketing like behavior in live streams. Like matthias and ryan are just petting their balls mutually about how great reason is. They always present it as not just a DAW but some kind of a lifestyle (thats my wording though, no quote). When BV8 was released a person in live chat (righteously) asked whether ALL parameters are modulatable. Almost every reason device has at least one knob you simply cant modulate. The settings you can modulate with the CV inputs are arbitrary. For full controll you need a combinator, also to see the modulation because the CV inputs just behaved like 1980s hardware did. Knobs werent following. But even in the combinator not all params can be modulated. This seems often to stem from the fact that they dont properly implement slots for sub devices where the sub devices can have different number of parameters. Like the kong effects. But im not sure, it might as well be that they just arbitrarily limited the amound of params to be modulated to 2. Anyways I wanted to talk about their live stream behavior. Now that person asked for bv8s settings and whether all of them can be modulated. Matthias on an attempt to give worlds worst performance of an elon musk impression demonstrating the bullet proof walls of the Tesla Truck, long before that truck was made. He responded 'Well yes. Well you can modulate I think all of them, i guess, probably' and then he just randomly picked on param and showed how that could be modulated and said 'look how I can modulate it, I dont know what you want'. I get angry watching this 😂. This is so far away from their pseudo hippie esk reputation they try to maintain but is nothing but shady business practices. Of course BV8 has unmodulateable params. Unsurprisingly the effects section is affected where they again decided to not properly map different types of params onto their sub devices.
The only good thing about reasons UI is the fact that its full of bad examples for people learning UI design. Like for 99% of the aspect tha tmake up a user interface you can mention reason for telling how NOT to do it
These are actually really good (and I think fair) insights. I haven't thought about it for a while but I agree regarding the players step length. That is something that has bothered me in the past and I think they would be so much more powerful if they were longer.
Easy with your flow mate, I get it you from Midwest, but damn , don't try to sound like Strange Music...your bars are dope 💯, but this low grimey voice sounds very forced...
Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about? 😅 I'm not from the Midwest..
After using Reason for almost 15 years, I finally started thinking about switching to another DAW. If a loyal user starts thinking like this, something is really wrong.
Yup, that was pretty much how I felt a few years ago. You have a particular DAW in mind?
@@matthewstuartnz yeah I have. I tried FL and Ableton and my choice would be Ableton as I really like the most of It's basic features. The workflow is brilliant. If I switch the daw then I wanna definitely keep using the reason as a plugin.
Ableton is great! Very different workflow from FL. It's layout is a touch more traditional but it's routing is also very flexible.
Even Reaper is better than reason.
I've never given Reaper a good go cause it's not for me. But from what I've heard, I'd believe it.
🍿😄
Remember all those years ago when I used to try and convice you Reason was better than Ableton? Well... you were right. Ableton is better.
Haha I feel like Reason is like the OP1. Fun, but expensive and not at all necessary 😂
@@matthewstuartnz bringing out that reason / record bundle made me feel so nostalgic, where did time go 😭
I know!!! 😭 I'll let you hold it when you come visit 😂
@@matthewstuartnz 😅😇
A lot of people just use Reason, enjoy it and don’t compare it to other DAWs 🤷♂️
The point of comparison is that Reason users get less for the amount they pay for upgrades compared to other DAWs. If the upgrades were priced appropriately for the amount of 'new' stuff they're getting, then people wouldn't mind them no matter how little improvements they add for each version.
You can 'use it, and ejoy it' sure, but that's letting a company get away with overpricing their products while they act like it's still the early 2000s.
@@yourzippersuntied good point
I really like how you put this.
Maschine is a better Reason, than Reason nowadays.
When "Reason Studios" rumors leaked and there was rumor mill of a subscription model, I stopped supporting the product immediately, because I knew something was happening that I wouldn't like. More importantly, I knew "features" would dry up when 12 came out.
I had been using it since 3 and people wanted to be able to do what you're suggesting since the ReWire days, but Reason is just too afraid of all the money they'd make doing it.
I took my money elsewhere, got an upgrade from Komplete 3 & Ableton 8, now I use both together, without any regret and while I'll miss the old Propellerhead vibe of the Reason community, that community just doesn't exist anymore.
Yea, I'll admit I tend to favour Ableton and Maschine (Komplete) stuff these days. I still use a bunch of reason stuff but nowhere near as much as I used to.
Confused weakling at life is all I heard 😭 😢 😿 wahahhaa .. lol 🤦 remember, don’t hate the player[s]… “hate the game (now really sea this one .. have your best day and tomorrows will always be better. Duh 🙄.. ✌️ lo❤
😂
the other good thing about ableton is its free ;) lol
Well the update is free haha
Hey just stay with ableton....yes reason need features. But is it a deal breaker? Do it stops your workflow?
People dont think about thinks untill they realize they need it now..before a feature came..people still created music.. abelton live nice.. but the GUI HORRIBLE has no inspiration at all
Haha I actually like the Ableton GUI (after you mess with the colour scheme a bit).
Reason just works better for me. I prefer the workflow. All this crybaby stuff is annoying and if you cannot make great music with Reason, sell insurance or something.
Yeah Reason's DAW can't compete with Ableton at all, in fact, why do they even still bother with their DAW? And the Reason perpetual license upgrade cost to 13? LMAO they are on some mighty fine crack. Reason rack is cool, unfortunately the Reason+ subscription price is way out of touch with reality. It should be no more than 10 bucks a month. I can guarantee they aren't getting many subscribers at 20 bucks a month, its stupid.
Yea I wonder how many more people would sub at $10 month?
back in the ancient days I loved reason because it was so frictionless moving from a hardware workflow. However 20 something years later, they are still there, and the world have move on. Hell, even ableton was nice coming from trackers, but they adapted to the times (sometimes at a slow pace, finally they are having tags for plugins) but adapted anyway
Yea, I guess they all have the things that would be nice to that finally get added. But the key thing is actually finally adding them 😂
Reason is no longer competing as a full complete proper main DAW... All they want is new subscribers. Not even interested in perpetual license owners... They just want you to use the rack plugin in live... As a subscriber, of course...
Feels that way
user interface is crap ..
I feel like it leaves a bunch to be desired 😅
Oh boy, now you got me thinking about trying Ableton or Luna. I'm really a Reason user since 2005, but maybe it's time to switch. I heavily rely on Dr Rex loops, maybe it's the reason I'm not to leaving Reason yet (pun unintended).
Honestly, I would give Live a go. You can always use your Rex loops in the Reason Rack Plugin inside Ableton if you really miss them. Make sure you go into it with the expectation that it's probably going to take a week or two to get the hang of Ableton cause it is a bit different if you're really used to the Reason workflow. But I have no regrets about the switch. I think Ableton is better from a workflow point of view in virtually every way. And the company is consistently adding new and cool stuff with every release (as you can see in this video haha). Also, if you ever fancy getting a Push controller, it works AWESOME with Ableton.
other samplers can use dr rex files, I think the Ableton sampler can? and kontakt etc
@@Barney-ii1no I didn't know about it, I'll trying loading .rex with kontakt. Thank you!
Really? I'm going to try that too!
@Bitwig embarrasses Ableton.
Ableton doesn’t even allow you to edit clips…that’s absolutely ridiculous 😂
And Ableton just now in version 12 allows you to see all the workflow.😂
What do you mean edit clips? And see all the workflow cause they added the new mixer panel?
@@matthewstuartnz been using Ableton for over 15 years, and you still can’t edit your clips in the session view…you can’t cut, copy, or paste anything…you can only stretch quantize and use automation.
In Bitwig, you can do ANYTHING…you can actually ADD more source material….it’s phenomenal.
I love working with clip editing in Bitwig, it’s a dream to work with…
Oh you mean like change MIDI notes inside a clip but from arrangement view? If that's what you're talking about, LUNA can do that.. and I hate it 😅 I do not want Ableton to add that at all haha
@@matthewstuartnz no, I mean audio.
If you populate a clip slot with an audio sample, you can’t do simple edits, you can’t cut cop or paste anything….
The most fundamental thing in music production can not be done with an audio clip in the session view…it’s the most ridiculous thing ever.
Aahh I see what you mean.. Honestly, that's not something that bothers me. But thinking about it that would be a cool feature
why do you even bother 🤣
Because I actually still love Reason and hope that by providing constructive criticism it might actually help improve a product I use regularly (but feel could be better).
@@matthewstuartnz if you change the perspective from end user to business, you will agree, that the future for Reason as a DAW is not competitive anymore. There are way too many better DAW alternatives out there….so look at it as if Reason rewinded back to version 1.0 where it was just a sound module and has its best success…
As a business it would beca waste of money trying to continue a route that just didn’t work out in the end…Reason is now what it was meant to be actually 😉
Sorry, I don't think I quite understand your point?
@@matthewstuartnz Just think as a businessman not an end user...then you will get it
Are you saying how Reason is currently is their most profitable form?
Reason is 🗑
I tried using Reason back in the day and then tried again 2 years ago (with the plug-ins inside my own DAW) and it just wasn’t worth the money to pay per month. They should just trash the DAW and become a Plugin company. The workflow is not intuitive, fast or easy to use. Making music should be fun not a chore.🙄
What do you think would be fair to pay per month for just the plugin?
@@matthewstuartnz $0.00
I’d rather buy my plug-ins outright instead of paying for them for 10, 15 or 20+ years no matter how cheap it is.
… it sucks to pay for something, and if you decide to stop paying for it, you end up with nothing, not even an older version. You know what Imean?
Yea.. especially since Reason also hasn't updated any of the old rack units forever!
At this point let's admit it, you have a Stockholm Syndrome with Reason. Let it go once for all. Be free. ;)
Hahaha honestly, I've thought about it many times but I don't think I can 😅 I think I'm in a toxic relationship with Reason.
Isn't reason free
Haha I can't tell if this is a serious comment or if you're making a joke.. but no, Reason is pretty expensive as far as DAWs go.
@@matthewstuartnz I was just joking around 🤣
Haha I thought so.. but you can never tell with comments
Hahaha. obviously a paid video. Can't take anyone serious who uses Ableton. With that shitty UI that would even have looked retro in the 80s.
Haha you don't like the Ableton UI? I actually kind of dig how simple and minimalistic it is. But I get it. It's not the prettiest to look at.
It sucks for a Reason.
What's the reason?
@@matthewstuartnz just being punny.
😂