Thank you Paul for your video! I´ve ordered the Tilta Mirage VND Kit for using it with the Sony 200-600 mm Tele Lens. While waiting for delivery I found your review. I considered screw-on vnds but it would be impossible to move your fingers along the lens and inside the sunshade without leaving fingerprints on the filter, or scaring all animals away by to much movement. So the mattebox in combination with the vnd that can be regulated with a tiny knob or even a motor seems perfect. Also because the price for 95 mm vnds is about the same as the Mirage VND Kit. I´m just a bit disappointed, hearing about the color shift and crosspattern now, but I think I read that the crosspattern effect is much less on a tele lens compared to wide angle as your tests also showed. Anyway, I think it´s a great peace of equipment for quick work and fixed NDs are another very good option.
Hi Robert. I’m still preferring the IRND’s but the great thing about the Mirage is that you can go for both the VND and the fixed ND’s so don’t feel disappointed. The VND performs well you just have to be aware of the limitations and that applies to most VND’s. I’m still glad I have both options.
@@PaulJoy You are absolutely right, I wanted a variable ND anyways and this is the best solution (in combination with the sony 200-600 95mm diameter) for my needs right now.
@@roberthack Let me know how you get on, I’ve not tried using anyone as long as 200-600 with the Mirage but my guess is that your not likely to see much of the cross polarisation thing at the focal range. Also, the colour shift will be solved just by doing a manual white balance if that’s a concern.
Hi Paul, thanks for the info and sharing your test findings. I'm seriously considering getting into Tilta's Mirage system. This is useful and I may check out using Vaxis filters too. I just subbed as I note you are using an FX3 and Sony wireless kit - both of which I recently bought, so I think I might be able to learn more from your wider advice too. Essentially I'm an amateur photographer (pretty experienced in stills, but a newbie to video) with a good range of Sony kit (I originally switched from Nikon as better mirrorless plus video capability) and now trying to build my skills in videography/cinematography. Alas the more I learn, the more I realise what it is that I don't know much about - or at least identify multiple areas that I need to upskill myself i.e. practice, review, learn and repeat. I like to learn and know I can get a lot better. It's as much the journey as the destination but I appreciate it's as much about the art and 'story' as technical capability.
Hi there. The Tilta Mirage is a great choice for a matte box, especially with the vaxis IRND filters. I'd def recommend that over a screw on Vari-ND if you want the best quality, albeit with a bit more hassle factor. We're all learning all the time but I'm sure your photography experience is going to help a lot. Learning best settings and limitations can take a while but framing and subject selection can be very much carried over from the still side of things and in many ways are the harder things to learn.
@@PaulJoy I initially purchased just the matte box with the view of getting the VND! So glad I did not. The actual ND quality as you say is very impressive given the price.
Exactly the video I was waiting on. Question: does the dual filter tray come with the Tilta Mirage or is that a separate purchase? My idea setup is going to me the mist filter along with the particular IRND strength I need.
Hi Gerald. The dual filter trays have to be purchased separately. The Mirage comes with one single filter tray. Interestingly I don’t think you can purchase more single filter trays either, just the dual ones. That’s my plan too, I’ve ordered two more dual filter trays to house the IRND’s and will just drop in the black mist to taste. Have fun, P
Hi Paul, I forgot to ask you if you have found a pouch for the Tilta filter holder. I've order a full set of NDs and filter holder, and now looking for a suitable pouch to put on my belt. Thanks! Claude
I've been using the pouch that comes with the VND kit. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be available as a stand alone item from Tilta. There's quite a few filter pouches out there but I wouldn't like to recommend one without trying it. Please do come back and let me know if you find one that works well though!
Thanks for taking time to text the difference between the VND and IRND filters. The IRND filters look much better to my eye. I always re-white balance my camera after installing any filter, especially NDs. Did you white balance after installing the VND and IRND filters, or test them "as is" to demonstrate how they differ?
Hi Dave. In order to show any colour shifts I white balanced the camera prior to fitting the filters and then left it at the balance throughout the tests.
@@PaulJoy will auto white balance fix it itself or do you have to manually fix it? If shooting in prores raw then it can be corrected pretty accurately in post right?
Hi Paul, Nice test here! Have you noticed reduction of sharpness using the Vaxis filters (with one or two filters)? I've for long time use circular VND, even very expensive ones, but I think I can now move on with the Tilta and Vaxis solution. Thanks again for sharing your finding.! Claude
Hi Claude. I haven't tested sharpness specifically with charts compared to not having a filter but no I haven't noticed anything. Any filter you put in front of the lens obviously can effect the light path however cameras like the FX3 are so detailed with sharp GM lenses that I don't think I would see that as a bad thing anyway. I would imagine two polarising filters (VND) would not perform better than a single piece of ND glass but using two ND's could potentially compare. Maybe thats something I'll test in the future but certainly in practical terms I'm not seeing any problems yet and I've been using the Vaxis ND's a lot recently for shooting wide apertures during lit interviews.
Very nice video! 🎉 I have very similar experience with the Smallrig Star-trail or how its called. I used their VND to cover two stop gaps on my rectangle filters. Then it has less color cast. Its really annoying tho that I still havent found a VND that just works. The convenience and precision of exposure is fantastic, but there id always a downside. Especially when we look at VND options for matteboxes.
Yup, I think it's just a limitation of using polarisation. To this day the best experience I've had is the electronic ND in Sony cameras like the FS5 and FS6. I wonder who will be the first to put that in a mirrorless style body.
@@PaulJoy if BlackMagic 6k can be called mirrorless body, that is the only one that comes to mind. I have heard a lot of good things about Sony FS. What was your general experience? Would you consider FX6 as its comparable form factor.
@@ReiDoesIt I’ve used the BMD 6K I’m im not a fan of the form factor, great UI and images though. FS5 was good in its day but limited by the rubbish EVF and tiny screen. I really like the FX6 and would love to have one but for me the image stabilisation and small form factor of the FX3 made more sense for the work I use it for.
Very convincing in favor of the fixed NDs. Question. Tilta has its variable polarizer as well. How might that differ from combining their Rotatable Circular Filter Tray with Vaxis 95mm Polarizing Filter? Does the HD-CPL have two filters or just one?
I’ve not tried the circular polariser but they are normally one piece of glass that you rotate to control the angle of glare being stopped. A vari ND is actually two of these opposing each other.
There is some even without filters at 16mm. Adding filters doesn’t effect this however if you were to add an additional filter tray to the front then this would limit the angle further.
I wonder...if Vaxis is able to make these IRNDs at such a low price, how good would a VND from Vaxis be for, say, $200? Sounds expensive, but it's incredibly cheap at a 95mm form factor compared to other options on the market. And Vaxis have proven that they're really good at maintaining white balance and resolution even down to 10 stops, which is incredible.
Great video! Thanks for the comparisons! If the Tilta VND was color balanced in camera, would the fixed Vaxis filters still outperform the VND up until any cross effect begins to show?
I haven’t tested that specifically but my guess would be that while the results would be close a single piece of nd glass would likely produce sharper results than two opposing polarising filters. Maybe I’ll do another test on that however I would be happy using variable ND as long as there was no cross polarisation if that helps at all.
@@PaulJoy Thanks for your insights. You're correct about the degrading effects of adding pieces of glass in front of a lens. I'm going to try a 2 or 3 stop fixed VAXIS ND in one tray and the Tilta VND in a second tray (optional Mirage acc.) which would allow one to dial in the precise amount of additional ND needed, while operating well within it's ND range before any cross pattern begins to show up. That's a total of 4 pieces of glass if you add in a black mist filter! But on an FX3 with an ultra sharp lens this still might be acceptable, even welcome. I have the entire range of Vaxis ND filters for the Mirage, but haven't had the chance to use them yet. I was previously using Firecrest Ultras, which are truly great and was planning on doing a side by side test, but after seeing how great the VAXIS filters performed in your tests, you saved me a lot time and trouble! I can now move on to the VAXIS filters without hesitation!
@@bentonpix Please let me know how you get on combining the VND with the IRND's. I don't have a second filter tray as yet to test that myself but that could be a useful combination.
@@PaulJoy Will do. The problem with the additional tray is that you can't use much wider than a 35mm lens before the additional 95mm filter holder introduces vignetting, but it's better than not having an option. I've cut out the offending vignetting frame on the tray so I can leave the optional tray on the matte box full time and use my 20mm lens. I still can't use the 95mm filters in that second position with wide lenses, but at least I don't have to remove it which is a pain in the butt because it's not easy to remove once on.
Hi Paul, great video! Do you have any issue's with wider lenses and this matte box? I have the same setup you have "Sony FX6/16-35 GM" paired with the mirage matte box and when the lens is set to anything below 20mm I start to see the circular part of the matte box. I thought at first it was vignetting from the ND filter but even with it taken out the issue is still there. When zoomed out to 16mm you can clearly see the circular part of the matte box. I am assuming this is because the matte box is made for super35 cameras? Not that I plan to shot below 20mm either way but it's something to take note. Thanks!
@@PaulJoy I must be doing something wrong. I am literally seeing the circular part of the matte box at 16-19mm. It not the subtle vignetting you are getting. Thanks for the reply!
@@brandonbrodie4547 Interesting, you said you're using the Fx6 where as I'm using the FX3. I wonder if theres a difference in the area projected on to the sensor given that the FX3 doesn't have the whole ND filter assembly? Do you have any additional screw on filters in the lens prior to fitting the adapter ring?
I would be very interested in seeing like 2-10 solid ND's combined with the 1-9 VND. That's the hack I'm looking for if you may test it out and see how it turns out.
@@PaulJoy Thanks a lot! I have the PolarPro Basecamp VND kit with the 2-5 and 6-9 stops, but upgrading this kit is quite expensive and to me seems like the Tilta Mirage is a much better option especially on a gimbal or mounted on a long lens. Problem is the 200-600mm from Sony has a 95mm filter thread so the outer diameter is higher than 95mm so it won't fit the 200-600mm lens. What I have in mind is taking a step up ring from PolarPro to 114mm or any similar step up ring and try to extend it and make it like 95mm to 95mm so the Tilta Mirage could clamp on. But Tilta has been suggesting that they're working on a larger version of the Tilta Mirage, probably 114mm version, so not sure. Overall Tilta Mirage seems to me like a better version, and speaking of quality my polarizer already got small bubbles and the "golden" paint is wearing out very quickly off that setup. X patter is present on both but I think having hard stops here is much helpful as you can accidentally get some blue creep going either backwards or forward with the CP on PolarPro's. Also pushing up and down the ND intensity on PP isn't as smooth and you could easily make unnecessary shakes to the footage so the wireless system here comes in handy.
Hey Paul Ive a question, thats easy to answer if you have the parts availiable. I have the Mirgage box VND + Bluemorpic + 1/4 Blackmist (better need 1/8) . Only Downside: I cannt have VND, Blackmist and BM at the same time. I mean I could but would need that adapter. My concern is related to a Polfilter. Like I want so film Cars and I am not sure how much control I have with the VND. Since it rips of some reflections, but the angle depends on the VND level etc. I am also a bit Sad about the Amout of the X vignetting to be honest. Online it says it would have hard stops, but I am always runnning into Xes. The VND is nice no doubt, but I do think I will move to a IRND soon. They are much more expenisve in germany than in US. So back to my question: I am not used to CPLs how do I combine them right? Like VND plus Pol? In comparison VND + VPL (very expensive) do not works as far as I understand ince both working principals dont work at the same time. I think the CPLs needs to be put in such a rotatable clip? For my fimiling set up I cannot film without a ND or VND thats why I ask. I only have the VND for the Mirage Box as ND solution. In Short: Which Setup do I need on the Mirage Box if I need a CPL and ND at the same time. What is the difference bettween variable CP and regular CP? Many thanks in advance for your answer and your time :)
Hi Dan. So the variable polariser allows you to adjust it for the position of the light source, it works the same way as the VND in so much as it uses a small wheel on top to rotate it. Like the VND this uses the whole slot so you won’t be able to combine it with another circular filter without adding an extra filter tray. As you suggest, you’ll want to use solid ND with the polariser and you have a couple of options. You could either add the extra filter tray to use circular IRND’s or fit rectangular ND’s to the front of the matte box. You’ll find rectangular ND’s to be a lot more expensive than the vaxis circular ones but it would allow you to shoot with wider lenses without adding as much vignette. Adding an extra filter tray would be cheaper and likely more practical however it will limit the width of the lens you can use.
I have the same matte box and was hoping to use it for long exposure photography and timelapse. I own the Tilta VND and polarizer. Vaxis only makes a fixed ND up to 7stops. I was hoping to find a 10stop. Would it be recommended to just get the double filter tray and get a 10stop and 3stop? Also, is there any other company out there that makes 95mm circular filters for this matte box? I haven't seen any.
I have a few of the double filter holders, it works great for doubling up ND’s or adding a mist along with ND. I’ve not seen any other circular ND’s that fit, but I haven’t really looked in to it.
Thank you so much for this review! Did you get the Vaxis polarizer filter? I'm very interested to see how the Vaxis $60 polarizer compares to the $220 Tilta polarizer.
No I haven’t tried it. The Tilta polariser can be rotated like the variable ND but it still seems quite a big difference in price. As there’s no way to rotate the vaxis filter I’m not sure how practical it would be with the mirage as you can’t rotate the filter tray.
@@PaulJoy I bought the Vaxis CPL and am happy with it. It does have a 'good side', meaning it's not reversible. And the user does have to set the polarization angle while putting it into the filter tray.
Great review. Instant sub. Thx. Got my Pure Mist 1/8 too. Guess I would grab IRNDs too, not sure which yet. My dual bracket is shipped to me together with additional frame for round filters. But I think that rectangual filters are easier to handle especially if you leave some grease marks on the edges. They do not impact you image, and on round filters they can. I would get additional stop using ISO instead of iris of shutter speed thou. But this depends on the camera. Ideally I would get camera with internal good NDs (like sony FX6) :).
Thanks for the sub. Good point re fingerprints, I've found with the round ones that I can insert and remove the filters from the trays without touching the faces of the glass however I've since found it can be tricky removing the filters from the cases so I leave then in trays ready to go. Yes, built in ND is even better, and yes I'd like an FX6 too :)
There are very few variable ND filters that give a really clean image. The Tilta VND is particularly ugly in my opinion. Of course you can correct out the cast in your color grade but really do you want to spend extra time to do that?
Thank you for this video Paul! If I wanted to use the Variable ND that came with the system and a Vaxis Black mist 1/8th I would need to purchase the Tilta Dual Circular Filter Tray, is that correct? Would the dual filter tray give me the ability to still control the Variable ND as well as have the Black Mist effect?
Hi Justin. The VND takes up the whole slot so you cannot combine it with anything else. You can however buy additional filter trays that snap on to the system so you could then have the VND plus another dual filter tray. Apparently this does further reduce the min focal range before you start seeing vignette though. geni.us/c5QV
@@PaulJoy Ahh okay that makes a lot of sense, thank you so much! I guess another alternative as well is I can always use a square Black mist filter ontop too if needed?
@@PaulJoy Hey Paul! Just picked up the matte box and absolutely love it thank you so much for the recommendation! Do you know if I'm able to flip the VND inwards so that the gear is closer to my left hand? It slides in fine but I was wondering if there were any changes to the picture or anything. Thank you!
@@justinchow13 I’ve done that before and yes it does fit the other way it just doesn’t click in quite the same. As far as I know there is no difference in the light passage through a VND in either direction although it’s not something I’ve ever tested so I can’t say that with any experience :)
have you tried manually shifting white balance to the blue magenta side to compensate when using the VND and if so how were the results? Like A-B: B0.5 / G-M: M0.5 ?
Paul, what do you think about the Tiffen 138 vnd? Do you know it? It's very expensive, about 1000 euros, I know it, but the question is: does a well made variable nd for matte boxes avoid the color shifting? Or we have to put attention only on fixed nd in the order to be neutral and anti vignetting at the same time?
Hey Fabio. I haven't tried it so I'm not sure. Being bigger it might be less prone to showing the cross pattern however if it use polarising filters which it seems to do then I don't think there is a way to stop the side effects altogether.
@@PaulJoy , so you say that it should avoid the cross pattern, because it's large, but we aren't sure it can resolve the color shifting. Maybe it's built for bigger and more cinematographic matte boxes, in substitution of the fixed nd, it's probably well made but not perfect. The final answer is that professionists work with the fixed filters and probably with the internal nd of the cine cameras.
@@fabiobus7671 It is certainly possible for VND to not cause colour shift, the Polar Pro does a great job of this. But as I say without testing the tiffen I would not know. I do however wonder what the benefit of using a VND on a cinema camera like this would be, it’s likely not a practical camera for run and gun anyway and if there’s time to prepare for a shot I’d always choose a fixed ND as the quality will be better than using a VND.
Hi, Paul. Thank you for these considerations. One of the best is that you can be fast even without the vnd, using the 3 waxis and their multiples to get the 8 or the 10 stops (6 + 4). There must be some situations when you really need the 10 stops combination, shooting, for example, at T 1.5 in s-log3 whit the base iso at 640, with 1.7 stops of default overexposing. Say to me if I'm right. So the question is, considering that I will buy a matte box for the first time, is really good the Tilta Mirage matte box if you don't need its vnd for first? Sorry for my english, but I'm italian.
Hi Fabio. I'd actually say that the Matte Box is a better choice with the Vaxis filters than with the VND. The VND is great for run and gun shooting where you need to react quickly however for that setup a normal screw on VND works just as well and keeps the camera less complicated. The great thing about the Mirage is that you get a choice between VND or Solid ND's / Mist filters. If you don't need to use filters at all then personally I wouldn't bother with a matte box. As much as people like seeing them on a camera rig, I'd rather go with a normal lens hood than have the hassle of a matte box just for stopping flaring.
As we all know, single-chip ND is the best, the more complex the function, the more defects, this is a very normal phenomenon, you should compare with similar products, most of the camera CMOS has ir-cut function, just like the human eye (360nm-680nm), basically can not distinguish infrared during the day, so your evaluation is not representative, or say, Not comprehensive，that's my idea
I didn't specifically test the IR feature of the filter but maybe I'll look at that in another video. I wouldn't say everyone knows fixed ND is better than variable ND, in fact a lot of people seem to ask that exact question hence why I wanted to answer it with this video. How much difference it makes depends on a lot of factors including which variable ND you use. The point of this video was to help people who might be choosing between fixed ND and VND for the Tilta Mirage and to show the differences.
If I buy the Tilta Mirage Matte box on its own, do I buy the tray that hold 2 filters if I want to use a Vaxis circular polariser and vaxis fixed circular ND filters? Also can you tell me if Vaxis 95mm are the only circular filters that can be used with the Mirage?
The matte box comes with one filter holder that only holds a single 95mm circular filter. You can buy the dual filter holders separately. If you mean the rotating polariser then that takes up a full slot so to use that with another circular filter you would need an additional filter tray module as well.
@@PaulJoy Thanks for your reply Paul. I have just found out that using the 2 filter tray with my lens (24mm full frame) isn't advised. I think I will end up just buying some decent 67mm fixed screw on ND's. Maybe just get the smallrig mini.
THIS IS SUCH A PERFECT COMPARISON AND JUST THE VIDEO I NEEDED! Good job Paul, highly appreciated! :)
My pleasure Jack, really pleased it helped.
I was also pleasantly surprised by how good Vaxis filters are. I love love their 1/8 black mist filter.
Great stuff! And thanks for going the subtle route in terms of background music. (I am so sick of overly loud music in review and tutorial videos!)
Thanks for letting me know.
Natural talker, easy understandable information, subscribed! Keep it up.
Thanks, much appreciated.
its because he british xD
Thank you Paul. This is the exact video I am looking for. I am going with the Vaxis path for my tilta matte box!
Glad it helped, let me know how you get on.
Paul you are absolutely amazing, such a fantastic review, so detailed, excellent!
That's great, thanks very much for letting me know.
this is EXATCLY what I was wondering thank you so much thank you so much for your testing an I love the idea for the separate trays
No problem, I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.
Thank you Paul for your video! I´ve ordered the Tilta Mirage VND Kit for using it with the Sony 200-600 mm Tele Lens. While waiting for delivery I found your review. I considered screw-on vnds but it would be impossible to move your fingers along the lens and inside the sunshade without leaving fingerprints on the filter, or scaring all animals away by to much movement. So the mattebox in combination with the vnd that can be regulated with a tiny knob or even a motor seems perfect. Also because the price for 95 mm vnds is about the same as the Mirage VND Kit. I´m just a bit disappointed, hearing about the color shift and crosspattern now, but I think I read that the crosspattern effect is much less on a tele lens compared to wide angle as your tests also showed. Anyway, I think it´s a great peace of equipment for quick work and fixed NDs are another very good option.
Hi Robert. I’m still preferring the IRND’s but the great thing about the Mirage is that you can go for both the VND and the fixed ND’s so don’t feel disappointed. The VND performs well you just have to be aware of the limitations and that applies to most VND’s. I’m still glad I have both options.
@@PaulJoy You are absolutely right, I wanted a variable ND anyways and this is the best solution (in combination with the sony 200-600 95mm diameter) for my needs right now.
@@roberthack Let me know how you get on, I’ve not tried using anyone as long as 200-600 with the Mirage but my guess is that your not likely to see much of the cross polarisation thing at the focal range. Also, the colour shift will be solved just by doing a manual white balance if that’s a concern.
Thank you. Nowadays few people speak the truth about new products. Nobody is talking about the tilta's color shift.
You’re very welcome.
Also, great video. I appreciate you sharing this very useful information. I have qued up a couple IRND's in my cart.
Glad you liked it, I think you’ll be pleased with the IRND’s, I use mine on most shoots.
Thank you! Another excellent video. I am getting a great deal out of them and will encourage my other filmmaker friends to subscribe.
Thanks :)
Hi Paul, thanks for the info and sharing your test findings. I'm seriously considering getting into Tilta's Mirage system. This is useful and I may check out using Vaxis filters too. I just subbed as I note you are using an FX3 and Sony wireless kit - both of which I recently bought, so I think I might be able to learn more from your wider advice too.
Essentially I'm an amateur photographer (pretty experienced in stills, but a newbie to video) with a good range of Sony kit (I originally switched from Nikon as better mirrorless plus video capability) and now trying to build my skills in videography/cinematography. Alas the more I learn, the more I realise what it is that I don't know much about - or at least identify multiple areas that I need to upskill myself i.e. practice, review, learn and repeat. I like to learn and know I can get a lot better. It's as much the journey as the destination but I appreciate it's as much about the art and 'story' as technical capability.
Hi there. The Tilta Mirage is a great choice for a matte box, especially with the vaxis IRND filters. I'd def recommend that over a screw on Vari-ND if you want the best quality, albeit with a bit more hassle factor.
We're all learning all the time but I'm sure your photography experience is going to help a lot. Learning best settings and limitations can take a while but framing and subject selection can be very much carried over from the still side of things and in many ways are the harder things to learn.
Great video, thanks for the comparison, Exactly what I was looking for.
Pleased it helped, thanks for letting me know.
Just what I was looking for thank you!
Pleased it helps Drew. I was out shooting with the IRND filters again yesterday and really pleased with the results.
@@PaulJoy I initially purchased just the matte box with the view of getting the VND! So glad I did not. The actual ND quality as you say is very impressive given the price.
Exactly the video I was waiting on. Question: does the dual filter tray come with the Tilta Mirage or is that a separate purchase? My idea setup is going to me the mist filter along with the particular IRND strength I need.
Hi Gerald. The dual filter trays have to be purchased separately. The Mirage comes with one single filter tray. Interestingly I don’t think you can purchase more single filter trays either, just the dual ones.
That’s my plan too, I’ve ordered two more dual filter trays to house the IRND’s and will just drop in the black mist to taste.
Have fun, P
Hi Paul, I forgot to ask you if you have found a pouch for the Tilta filter holder.
I've order a full set of NDs and filter holder, and now looking for a suitable pouch to put on my belt.
Thanks!
Claude
I've been using the pouch that comes with the VND kit. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be available as a stand alone item from Tilta. There's quite a few filter pouches out there but I wouldn't like to recommend one without trying it. Please do come back and let me know if you find one that works well though!
Thanks for taking time to text the difference between the VND and IRND filters. The IRND filters look much better to my eye. I always re-white balance my camera after installing any filter, especially NDs. Did you white balance after installing the VND and IRND filters, or test them "as is" to demonstrate how they differ?
Hi Dave. In order to show any colour shifts I white balanced the camera prior to fitting the filters and then left it at the balance throughout the tests.
@@PaulJoy will auto white balance fix it itself or do you have to manually fix it? If shooting in prores raw then it can be corrected pretty accurately in post right?
Hi Paul, Nice test here!
Have you noticed reduction of sharpness using the Vaxis filters (with one or two filters)?
I've for long time use circular VND, even very expensive ones, but I think I can now move on with the Tilta and Vaxis solution. Thanks again for sharing your finding.!
Claude
Hi Claude. I haven't tested sharpness specifically with charts compared to not having a filter but no I haven't noticed anything. Any filter you put in front of the lens obviously can effect the light path however cameras like the FX3 are so detailed with sharp GM lenses that I don't think I would see that as a bad thing anyway. I would imagine two polarising filters (VND) would not perform better than a single piece of ND glass but using two ND's could potentially compare. Maybe thats something I'll test in the future but certainly in practical terms I'm not seeing any problems yet and I've been using the Vaxis ND's a lot recently for shooting wide apertures during lit interviews.
@@PaulJoy Great! Thanks for your reply!
Thanks Paul, awesome video
Glad you liked it :)
Very nice video! 🎉 I have very similar experience with the Smallrig Star-trail or how its called. I used their VND to cover two stop gaps on my rectangle filters. Then it has less color cast. Its really annoying tho that I still havent found a VND that just works. The convenience and precision of exposure is fantastic, but there id always a downside. Especially when we look at VND options for matteboxes.
Yup, I think it's just a limitation of using polarisation. To this day the best experience I've had is the electronic ND in Sony cameras like the FS5 and FS6. I wonder who will be the first to put that in a mirrorless style body.
@@PaulJoy if BlackMagic 6k can be called mirrorless body, that is the only one that comes to mind. I have heard a lot of good things about Sony FS. What was your general experience? Would you consider FX6 as its comparable form factor.
@@ReiDoesIt I’ve used the BMD 6K I’m im not a fan of the form factor, great UI and images though. FS5 was good in its day but limited by the rubbish EVF and tiny screen.
I really like the FX6 and would love to have one but for me the image stabilisation and small form factor of the FX3 made more sense for the work I use it for.
Very convincing in favor of the fixed NDs. Question. Tilta has its variable polarizer as well. How might that differ from combining their Rotatable Circular Filter Tray with Vaxis 95mm Polarizing Filter? Does the HD-CPL have two filters or just one?
I’ve not tried the circular polariser but they are normally one piece of glass that you rotate to control the angle of glare being stopped. A vari ND is actually two of these opposing each other.
I don't know if i missed it, but did you mention if there is vignette when stacking two filters with a wide angle lens?
There is some even without filters at 16mm. Adding filters doesn’t effect this however if you were to add an additional filter tray to the front then this would limit the angle further.
I wonder...if Vaxis is able to make these IRNDs at such a low price, how good would a VND from Vaxis be for, say, $200? Sounds expensive, but it's incredibly cheap at a 95mm form factor compared to other options on the market. And Vaxis have proven that they're really good at maintaining white balance and resolution even down to 10 stops, which is incredible.
I wonder if Vaxxis already make the glass for the VND for the Mirage, it's labelled as Tilta but as far as I know they do not make their own glass.
Great video! Thanks for the comparisons! If the Tilta VND was color balanced in camera, would the fixed Vaxis filters still outperform the VND up until any cross effect begins to show?
I haven’t tested that specifically but my guess would be that while the results would be close a single piece of nd glass would likely produce sharper results than two opposing polarising filters. Maybe I’ll do another test on that however I would be happy using variable ND as long as there was no cross polarisation if that helps at all.
@@PaulJoy Thanks for your insights. You're correct about the degrading effects of adding pieces of glass in front of a lens. I'm going to try a 2 or 3 stop fixed VAXIS ND in one tray and the Tilta VND in a second tray (optional Mirage acc.) which would allow one to dial in the precise amount of additional ND needed, while operating well within it's ND range before any cross pattern begins to show up. That's a total of 4 pieces of glass if you add in a black mist filter! But on an FX3 with an ultra sharp lens this still might be acceptable, even welcome.
I have the entire range of Vaxis ND filters for the Mirage, but haven't had the chance to use them yet. I was previously using Firecrest Ultras, which are truly great and was planning on doing a side by side test, but after seeing how great the VAXIS filters performed in your tests, you saved me a lot time and trouble! I can now move on to the VAXIS filters without hesitation!
@@bentonpix Please let me know how you get on combining the VND with the IRND's. I don't have a second filter tray as yet to test that myself but that could be a useful combination.
@@PaulJoy Will do. The problem with the additional tray is that you can't use much wider than a 35mm lens before the additional 95mm filter holder introduces vignetting, but it's better than not having an option. I've cut out the offending vignetting frame on the tray so I can leave the optional tray on the matte box full time and use my 20mm lens. I still can't use the 95mm filters in that second position with wide lenses, but at least I don't have to remove it which is a pain in the butt because it's not easy to remove once on.
@@bentonpix Good info thanks for letting me know.
Hi Paul, great video! Do you have any issue's with wider lenses and this matte box? I have the same setup you have "Sony FX6/16-35 GM" paired with the mirage matte box and when the lens is set to anything below 20mm I start to see the circular part of the matte box. I thought at first it was vignetting from the ND filter but even with it taken out the issue is still there. When zoomed out to 16mm you can clearly see the circular part of the matte box. I am assuming this is because the matte box is made for super35 cameras? Not that I plan to shot below 20mm either way but it's something to take note. Thanks!
Hi Brandon. Yes at 16mm I can see slight vignetting in the corners but this is gone by the time I zoom to around 18mm.
@@PaulJoy I must be doing something wrong. I am literally seeing the circular part of the matte box at 16-19mm. It not the subtle vignetting you are getting. Thanks for the reply!
@@brandonbrodie4547 Interesting, you said you're using the Fx6 where as I'm using the FX3. I wonder if theres a difference in the area projected on to the sensor given that the FX3 doesn't have the whole ND filter assembly? Do you have any additional screw on filters in the lens prior to fitting the adapter ring?
I would be very interested in seeing like 2-10 solid ND's combined with the 1-9 VND. That's the hack I'm looking for if you may test it out and see how it turns out.
I’ll see what I can do.
@@PaulJoy Thanks a lot! I have the PolarPro Basecamp VND kit with the 2-5 and 6-9 stops, but upgrading this kit is quite expensive and to me seems like the Tilta Mirage is a much better option especially on a gimbal or mounted on a long lens. Problem is the 200-600mm from Sony has a 95mm filter thread so the outer diameter is higher than 95mm so it won't fit the 200-600mm lens.
What I have in mind is taking a step up ring from PolarPro to 114mm or any similar step up ring and try to extend it and make it like 95mm to 95mm so the Tilta Mirage could clamp on. But Tilta has been suggesting that they're working on a larger version of the Tilta Mirage, probably 114mm version, so not sure. Overall Tilta Mirage seems to me like a better version, and speaking of quality my polarizer already got small bubbles and the "golden" paint is wearing out very quickly off that setup.
X patter is present on both but I think having hard stops here is much helpful as you can accidentally get some blue creep going either backwards or forward with the CP on PolarPro's. Also pushing up and down the ND intensity on PP isn't as smooth and you could easily make unnecessary shakes to the footage so the wireless system here comes in handy.
Hey Paul Ive a question, thats easy to answer if you have the parts availiable. I have the Mirgage box VND + Bluemorpic + 1/4 Blackmist (better need 1/8) . Only Downside: I cannt have VND, Blackmist and BM at the same time. I mean I could but would need that adapter. My concern is related to a Polfilter. Like I want so film Cars and I am not sure how much control I have with the VND. Since it rips of some reflections, but the angle depends on the VND level etc. I am also a bit Sad about the Amout of the X vignetting to be honest. Online it says it would have hard stops, but I am always runnning into Xes. The VND is nice no doubt, but I do think I will move to a IRND soon. They are much more expenisve in germany than in US. So back to my question: I am not used to CPLs how do I combine them right? Like VND plus Pol? In comparison VND + VPL (very expensive) do not works as far as I understand ince both working principals dont work at the same time. I think the CPLs needs to be put in such a rotatable clip? For my fimiling set up I cannot film without a ND or VND thats why I ask. I only have the VND for the Mirage Box as ND solution.
In Short: Which Setup do I need on the Mirage Box if I need a CPL and ND at the same time. What is the difference bettween variable CP and regular CP?
Many thanks in advance for your answer and your time :)
Hi Dan. So the variable polariser allows you to adjust it for the position of the light source, it works the same way as the VND in so much as it uses a small wheel on top to rotate it.
Like the VND this uses the whole slot so you won’t be able to combine it with another circular filter without adding an extra filter tray.
As you suggest, you’ll want to use solid ND with the polariser and you have a couple of options. You could either add the extra filter tray to use circular IRND’s or fit rectangular ND’s to the front of the matte box.
You’ll find rectangular ND’s to be a lot more expensive than the vaxis circular ones but it would allow you to shoot with wider lenses without adding as much vignette.
Adding an extra filter tray would be cheaper and likely more practical however it will limit the width of the lens you can use.
I have the same matte box and was hoping to use it for long exposure photography and timelapse. I own the Tilta VND and polarizer. Vaxis only makes a fixed ND up to 7stops. I was hoping to find a 10stop. Would it be recommended to just get the double filter tray and get a 10stop and 3stop? Also, is there any other company out there that makes 95mm circular filters for this matte box? I haven't seen any.
I have a few of the double filter holders, it works great for doubling up ND’s or adding a mist along with ND.
I’ve not seen any other circular ND’s that fit, but I haven’t really looked in to it.
Thank you so much for this review! Did you get the Vaxis polarizer filter? I'm very interested to see how the Vaxis $60 polarizer compares to the $220 Tilta polarizer.
No I haven’t tried it. The Tilta polariser can be rotated like the variable ND but it still seems quite a big difference in price. As there’s no way to rotate the vaxis filter I’m not sure how practical it would be with the mirage as you can’t rotate the filter tray.
@@PaulJoy Yeah, I'm figuring you'd have to put the filter up to your eye to get the orientation, then drop it in the tray.
@@PaulJoy I bought the Vaxis CPL and am happy with it. It does have a 'good side', meaning it's not reversible. And the user does have to set the polarization angle while putting it into the filter tray.
how do the Vaxis IRNDs compare to the Tilta Illusion FSNDs?
I've not tried the Tilta's, I'll see if I can grab some to test.
They're the same. Vaxis produces FSNDs and Effects filters for Tilta.
Great review. Instant sub. Thx.
Got my Pure Mist 1/8 too. Guess I would grab IRNDs too, not sure which yet. My dual bracket is shipped to me together with additional frame for round filters.
But I think that rectangual filters are easier to handle especially if you leave some grease marks on the edges. They do not impact you image, and on round filters they can.
I would get additional stop using ISO instead of iris of shutter speed thou. But this depends on the camera.
Ideally I would get camera with internal good NDs (like sony FX6) :).
Thanks for the sub. Good point re fingerprints, I've found with the round ones that I can insert and remove the filters from the trays without touching the faces of the glass however I've since found it can be tricky removing the filters from the cases so I leave then in trays ready to go.
Yes, built in ND is even better, and yes I'd like an FX6 too :)
There are very few variable ND filters that give a really clean image. The Tilta VND is particularly ugly in my opinion. Of course you can correct out the cast in your color grade but really do you want to spend extra time to do that?
Yup, even the super expensive name brand ones have problems. Much better to stick to solid ND if you can.
Thank you for this video Paul! If I wanted to use the Variable ND that came with the system and a Vaxis Black mist 1/8th I would need to purchase the Tilta Dual Circular Filter Tray, is that correct? Would the dual filter tray give me the ability to still control the Variable ND as well as have the Black Mist effect?
Hi Justin. The VND takes up the whole slot so you cannot combine it with anything else. You can however buy additional filter trays that snap on to the system so you could then have the VND plus another dual filter tray. Apparently this does further reduce the min focal range before you start seeing vignette though. geni.us/c5QV
@@PaulJoy Ahh okay that makes a lot of sense, thank you so much! I guess another alternative as well is I can always use a square Black mist filter ontop too if needed?
Yes if you have a rectangular filter you could pop that in the front, thats a really good idea as it makes it easy to add and remove the mist.
@@PaulJoy Hey Paul! Just picked up the matte box and absolutely love it thank you so much for the recommendation! Do you know if I'm able to flip the VND inwards so that the gear is closer to my left hand? It slides in fine but I was wondering if there were any changes to the picture or anything. Thank you!
@@justinchow13 I’ve done that before and yes it does fit the other way it just doesn’t click in quite the same. As far as I know there is no difference in the light passage through a VND in either direction although it’s not something I’ve ever tested so I can’t say that with any experience :)
have you tried manually shifting white balance to the blue magenta side to compensate when using the VND and if so how were the results? Like A-B: B0.5 / G-M: M0.5 ?
Yes, you can white balance with the filter attached and it does correct the results. I can’t remember the specific results I’m afraid.
The cast is due to ir pollution. Magenta shift won't fix reddish shadows.
nice video comparison thanks!
Glad it was useful, thanks for letting me know.
Can I use Variable ND filter and IR Cut filter at the same time?
Not unless you use an additional filter tray as there’s only one as standard. You can buy additional trays.
Paul, what do you think about the Tiffen 138 vnd? Do you know it? It's very expensive, about 1000 euros, I know it, but the question is: does a well made variable nd for matte boxes avoid the color shifting? Or we have to put attention only on fixed nd in the order to be neutral and anti vignetting at the same time?
Hey Fabio. I haven't tried it so I'm not sure. Being bigger it might be less prone to showing the cross pattern however if it use polarising filters which it seems to do then I don't think there is a way to stop the side effects altogether.
@@PaulJoy , so you say that it should avoid the cross pattern, because it's large, but we aren't sure it can resolve the color shifting. Maybe it's built for bigger and more cinematographic matte boxes, in substitution of the fixed nd, it's probably well made but not perfect. The final answer is that professionists work with the fixed filters and probably with the internal nd of the cine cameras.
@@fabiobus7671 It is certainly possible for VND to not cause colour shift, the Polar Pro does a great job of this. But as I say without testing the tiffen I would not know. I do however wonder what the benefit of using a VND on a cinema camera like this would be, it’s likely not a practical camera for run and gun anyway and if there’s time to prepare for a shot I’d always choose a fixed ND as the quality will be better than using a VND.
Hi, Paul. Thank you for these considerations. One of the best is that you can be fast even without the vnd, using the 3 waxis and their multiples to get the 8 or the 10 stops (6 + 4). There must be some situations when you really need the 10 stops combination, shooting, for example, at T 1.5 in s-log3 whit the base iso at 640, with 1.7 stops of default overexposing. Say to me if I'm right. So the question is, considering that I will buy a matte box for the first time, is really good the Tilta Mirage matte box if you don't need its vnd for first? Sorry for my english, but I'm italian.
Hi Fabio. I'd actually say that the Matte Box is a better choice with the Vaxis filters than with the VND. The VND is great for run and gun shooting where you need to react quickly however for that setup a normal screw on VND works just as well and keeps the camera less complicated. The great thing about the Mirage is that you get a choice between VND or Solid ND's / Mist filters.
If you don't need to use filters at all then personally I wouldn't bother with a matte box. As much as people like seeing them on a camera rig, I'd rather go with a normal lens hood than have the hassle of a matte box just for stopping flaring.
well you sold me!
That's good :)
As we all know, single-chip ND is the best, the more complex the function, the more defects, this is a very normal phenomenon, you should compare with similar products, most of the camera CMOS has ir-cut function, just like the human eye (360nm-680nm), basically can not distinguish infrared during the day, so your evaluation is not representative, or say, Not comprehensive，that's my idea
I didn't specifically test the IR feature of the filter but maybe I'll look at that in another video. I wouldn't say everyone knows fixed ND is better than variable ND, in fact a lot of people seem to ask that exact question hence why I wanted to answer it with this video. How much difference it makes depends on a lot of factors including which variable ND you use.
The point of this video was to help people who might be choosing between fixed ND and VND for the Tilta Mirage and to show the differences.
VND all the way - just white balance at +2stops and good to go across the range. The shift is a tiny tweak in post. Nothing really.
Yup, there’s certainly times when VND is the better choice, it’s just not always the case.
If I buy the Tilta Mirage Matte box on its own, do I buy the tray that hold 2 filters if I want to use a Vaxis circular polariser and vaxis fixed circular ND filters? Also can you tell me if Vaxis 95mm are the only circular filters that can be used with the Mirage?
The matte box comes with one filter holder that only holds a single 95mm circular filter. You can buy the dual filter holders separately.
If you mean the rotating polariser then that takes up a full slot so to use that with another circular filter you would need an additional filter tray module as well.
@@PaulJoy Thanks for your reply Paul. I have just found out that using the 2 filter tray with my lens (24mm full frame) isn't advised. I think I will end up just buying some decent 67mm fixed screw on ND's.
Maybe just get the smallrig mini.