IRND Filters: Explained! (Tokina vs Schneider vs Tiffen)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ต.ค. 2024
- Taking a look at a few different sets of NDs to analyze their effects: Tiffen NDs, Schneider Platinum IRNDs, Schneider Rhodium FSNDs, Formatt-Hitech Firecrest IRNDs, and Tokina Pro IRNDs.
Skip to the test:
Tiffen ND: 3:30
Schneider Platinum IRND: 3:57
Formatt-Hitech Firecrest IRND: 4:18
Schneider RHOdium FSND: 4:31
Tokina Pro IRND: 4:55
Don't sleep on a good IRND filter. Check out Tokina Pro IRND's here: www.tokinacine...
"Further Reading"
Explaining Sony’s Variable ND - • Explaining Sony's Vari...
Panavision LCND First Look - • Panavision LCND First ...
Evolution of Neutral Density - www.formatt-hi...
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Man I was going to watch this anyway but the minute I saw your grandma I was sold. That's such an awesome touch
I liked it right after grandma's first dialogue.
Followed because grandma asked me too. She also said you’d answer my questions.
BEST use of a granny in film EVER!! and thanks for the succinct but thorough review. Your grandma IS proud!
I have been watching filter videos on TH-cam for two hours... yours is the best by far.
Last question, I promise! Have you ever tried the Nisi IRND filters? Tossing up between them and the Tokina pro and I honestly can’t see a huge difference in a lot of the tests but the nisi ones are a hell of a lot cheaper where I live. Can get a full set for the price of one Tokina.
Awesome -- excellent summary. Shout out to your grandmother for getting in front of the camera.
Your stuff is really good. Straight to the point. Good advice without overdoing it.
YOOOOO!!!!! Grandma is the goat!
Agreed
Hey Robert thank you for making this video. I was curious what your solution to using polarization with the FX6 or FX9 is? To my knowledge If you use a pola with the internal ND you get color shifting and whatnot.
That would lead me to use traditional ND filters. Would you still recommend the IRNDs for cameras that should have the proper coating for IR pollution?
Cheers,
Laz
Thank you for this video.
I know it wasn't the main subject of the video, but these filter crates looked so great for storing and organizing your filters that have searched for them and bought two!
They will perfectly fit my newly ordered set of Schneider filters (RHOdium and Hollywood Blackmagic).
If anyone else is wondering, I bought mine at B&H, and they're called PHFX Tools Cine Filter Crate Mini.
Best regards.
Did a similar test and ended up getting the Firecrest. Bang for buck they are still really hard to beat, especially with the new SuperSlims. Depending on the camera I sometimes just end up making a "profile" in prep to be used on set regardless, this is a great way to still have the control without getting involved in the edit.
That's a great idea!
Your grandma is awesome. Loved this video.
I followed because of grandma! She reminds me of my grandfather
Hi, quick question. Which matte box did you use and what brand of the bracket that hold your square filter (sorry I don’t know how to call it 😅). Thanks so much in advance.
Got a follow from me because your grandma sounds just like my grandma, and all my aunties. Oh, and good overview and comparison too.
1. What is the module between the gold mount plate and the battery that lets you use SDI? Did you notice any latency on any wireless monitors?
2. During the test did you change the aperture of the camera or the light intensity for each ND filter? How did you compensate for the different ND strengths?
3. How did you match exposures in DaVinci Resolve? Which tools did you use?
4. How do you think these IRNDs would affect the sensors of cameras that don't suffer from IR pollution?
5. Why would you choose to use ND filters vs END filters if you have access to both?
6. Why do you use an android phone even though filmmaking apps are usually better developed for iPhones? (I used to have a galaxy phone myself)
7. What do you think about Aputure's new sky panel killer?
I recommend checking out the RAWLITE OLPF for the Pocket 6k. Your videos are very informative. Can't wait for more. :)
1. It's a C-box from Wooden Camera with a Gold Mount passthrough plate. I haven't noticed any latency.
2. T-stop was opened as ND density increased.
3. Lift, gamma, gain to match waveforms.
4. Heavy IR pollution is only really seen on regular NDs, IRNDs will generally give you the same result. However, it's always a good idea to test.
5. I like using filters for full stop control. Cameras like the FS7/MiniLF have internal NDs in increments of 2 stops. A lot of times I'll combine the two for quick ND changes.
6. I use an iPhone.
7. Looks great! Aputure has been killing it with their products lately. It fits a great market for owner/ops.
@@robchado Thanks
So do you need IRND’s for Sony cameras like the a7S iii / FX6 / FX9? Or is this issue mainly with cameras like the Black Magic that lack IR cut filters
Wish your grandma more happiness 🎉
Grandma was a great co-host haha.I definitely learned what to look for and that 4x4 filters are not preferred.
He should have mentioned the problem with shooting synthetic materials (e.g. sports clothing) as these tend to create a huge problem if you shoot them with a regular ND or wihout an IR ND. A black shirt or shorts will come out a muddy brown. Also, 4 x 4 filts have their place. They are still commonly used on many sets. The main reason DOPS use 4 X 5.65 filts is to cover wide angle lenses, but a 4 x 4 will cover an 85mm or longer, no probs. Otherwise, great information.
Some great points!
This was incredibly useful thank you! I'm considering the Firecrest 2mm ND's to stack, as they're half the price to get into ND's, but otherwise would for sure go for the Schneider...
I felt like Firecrest, while going blue, they kept true to the image very well.
Nicely explained! But I have a question: I want to get a Tiffen Black ProMist which apparently has IRND builtin, and if I use it on my new forthcoming Blackmagic 6K Pro which also has built-in IRND, would that be too much IR filtration? Should I instead uase a non-IRND version of the Black ProMist diffuser?
Dude that filter case is cool, which filter case is that???
Great info. Has anything important changed since you and your fantastic grandma did this?
Awesome clear content.
First Time Shooter, bought the Canon EOS R. Came across your video trying to make a decision between Hollywood Black Magic / Black Satin / Glimmer Glass as my first filter outside of ND to get a more non digital look but not overkill. Any thoughts are welcome 🙏🏽
Thanks for the video. I am actually looking at the Nisi filters and was wondering if you had any experience with them? Especially compared to the one you did review. Also, more of your grandmother!
Justin Allen I’ve seen a bunch of them online, but I haven’t had any personal experience with Nisi!
@@robchado Thanks Robert. I have seen a few videos on-line but none really comparing them to other filters. Honestly they spec out good, and their other filters look good...it's just hard to really tell.
@@Justin_Allen Unless you can find a set locally, filters are pretty hard to rent! It might be worth it to check Sharegrid.
Your abuelita is the best!
What do you do for multi cam shoots outside? Do you have multiple copies of ND or rent? IF you are going out with your FX9 do you bring extra ND with you just incase?
Dope video, super informative! I’m trying to build an Nd set myself, any recs on which Nd intensities to get? Which ones do you have in your kit?
You could start with .3, .6, 1.2, which can get you to 6 stops if you stack two, 7 if you stack three. Keep in mind that stacking can exaggerate the filter's tendencies and you'll be more prone to reflections.
Hi Robert! Sorry for commenting on 2yrs back post 😢
I'm searching to but 4x4.56 nd and pola. On this comparison, I like Tokina > schneider rhodium > firecrest > in order and tiffen the least b/c I can see noticeable color shift. Somehow many filmmakers in my region use tiffen, probably because its the cheapest.
I wanna refer to what your current nd, pola, sfx filter sets of 2023
Thanks 🙏🏻
I still currently use the Schneider RHOdiums and the Revar Cine Pola.
@@robchadowhoa didn't get notification. Thank you so much for replying back, finally got myself set of schneider 0.3~1.2 fsnd. Saving up for reval cine pola 😃
Hi, a little late to the game on this question maybe, but here it goes: Is it usually better to have IRND filters or could regular ND filters combined with an IR Cut OLPF would give the same result? a brand called Rawlite makes an IR Cut OLPF for the Blackmagic Pocket 6K camera, which you used for the test. Second and last question: If you stack IRND filters, are you also changing the amount/strength of IR filtration as well? which could possibly introduce color cast or change the response on the blacks? or the effect of the IR cut doesn't "add" each time you stack multiple filters. Thanks for this AMAZING video, super helpful.
Great video. However, my question is what if you install an internal OLPF like the one by Rawlite? Could you go with cheaper filters that don't have IR Cut and not suffer that terrible color shift? I plan on buying a pocket 6k then eventually upgrading to a UMP G2. The IR pollution is horrendous on the pocket series so I'll for sure need the OLPF for that one, apparently the internal IRND's on the UMP are pretty good but it still benefits from an OLPF.
walking your grandma thru your tests
is so freaking cute
Did you get that lens/filter pelican case custom made? Looks amazing. Are the filters very secure in there?
It's the PHFX Filter Crate Mini. Filters are super secure!
Followed because grandma told me I should :-) Guess IR isn't as much of an issue on my Nikon Z6 as it has an IR cut filter on the sensor? What do you think about the two stage variable ND filters? 1-6 stop and 6-9 stop for example. I think the quality should be better than just getting the Tiffin 2-9 stop single filter. Much like how you don't buy a zoom lens that covers a big focal range like a 28-300mm lens.
Haha ... man your grandma knows more than most of us. ;) Also, awe, she reminds me of my Titas and Titos ... not sure if you are Filipino, but that's the accent I hear and I love hearing it. :)
Would you still suggest the same nd’s today or have some new and improved ones been released? Thanks for all the help.
I'd still recommend the same ND's. Tokina IRND or Schneider RHOdiums are great. Ultimate option would be Panavision/ProGlass Cine IRND.
@@robchado awesome! Thank you. Definitely keen on getting a set but everything is so hard to find in Australia.
Grandma, you’re awesome!
Amazing Video dude🙌🏻
Woundering which case for the filters you’re using? Currently Using a cheapo plastic case with the original ARRI filterpouches. Not that satisfied with that solution. Using the ARRI Fsnd set btw, I love it but the Schneider’s also seem to look like pretty sweet. When I bought the ARRI ones the where like 50 bucks more a piece so I went with the “best of the best”
🤝✌️
It's Arri, so I'm sure they look spectacular! I'm using the Cine Filter Crate from PHFX Tools. I currently have the Mini that fits all my ND, and a handful of cosmetic filters.
Robert Machado ordered one 🤝Thanks a lot
Just rewatched your video and I am having a hard time finding the Tokina Pro IRND Filters for sale. Are they new, old and have you seen this issue? I can find 4 x 4 versions but not the bigger ones.
I can connect you with Tokina to purchase some if you're interested. Send me an email: robert@machadovisuals.com
@@robchado Thanks Robert. E-mail sent.
😂😂 grandmas not wrong! Keep it up man. Your channel is super helpful
Excellent video, but I am curious to know whether Tokina or Schneider or both sponsored this video?
ImhotepTheGameLION No sponsors, just good products. Tokina sent out their NDs for testing and I’ve sent them back.
What matte are you using here?
Hi Robert, love your channel, a lot of helpful information for shooting! I was wondering what the I.R. pollution was like with the FX-9's internal electronic ND?
I've not noticed any IR pollution when using the internal vari-ND! It looks neutral throughout the range.
Robert Machado Thanks, good to know...
Dude your videos are so good. Grandma was hilarious. Keep up the good work bro
hey man what adapter are you using for the lens on the BMPCC6k? or are those tokina EF mount??
They are EF mount!
@@robchado thought they were PL!!!! woaaaaahhhh
Grandma Definitely Sold Me ❤😂
Charming, and informative. Thanks!
Thanks. This was very informative. could you please tell me if we need IRND for mirrorless cameras such as EOS R5 or Sony A7SIII?
Yes, all digital cameras are prone to IR pollution when using NDs.
@@robchado thanks a lot.
Robert, what do you think of IR CUT filters?
To my understanding, the level of IR cut should vary depending on the density of ND. Most of the ones that I've seen give off a color cast. Nowadays it's much easier to just use high quality IRNDs/FSNDs that have the IR cut "built in."
To see real results you should put normal ND on the clear cameras so that we would see same depth of field. Now no matter how strange IR looks like we love it just because not everything is in focus. :)
Recently came across your channel, wish I found it a long time ago. Actual real world knowledge and information. Great job Robert, and thank you!
may I know which filter case shown at 1:23 please?
YES. Same Question
found his response in an earlier comment. "PHFX Filter Crate Mini"
what is the name of this case for the lenses and filters?
Searched deep in the comments to fid his responses on these. PHFX Filter Crate Mini and he said about the lens case: "This is the case I'm using which looks like is discontinued: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1365771-REG/tokina_kpc_4300w6_vista_6_lens_case_hprc.html
It looks like you can get one from Jason Cases."
Thanks for the information!
Fantastic video!
haha I just hit play on this as I'm looking for info on Irnd's for the Red Dragon and I'm like wait, I know this intro...
What do you think about the NiSi 4x5.65 IRND?
NiSi's are good from what I've seen. I believe they have two different tiers in terms of quality.
This was great. +1 for Gma
You know what, i would follow your grandmas channel! Say Hi to her :)
grandma said it, follow Robert. awesome work keep it up.
the video that i needed. thanks
Good job!
Great video
What case do you use for your ND's
Typically, I use the Cine Filter Crate from PHFX Tools.
what mic arm are you using?
Link is in my kit! kit.co/robchado
shoutout to the grandma!!
Listen... Grandma asked me to subscribe so Ima subscribe
So what's up with the daylight Arri 650?
Seth Holston Nice catch! I stuck a small Aputure MC inside the housing to make it play as a practical. Much easier to control exposure/color without everything blowing out.
Robert Machado Nice! I’ll have to try that with mine!
Galing ni lola 👏👏👏
new sub alert. pinoy? your Lola did great!
I shot that Indy Mogul ND filter video with Griffin lol
Awesome! Been following him forever.
I need a grandma 👵 on my sets. 😎
i love gran ma she really cares for yah
Wow good knowledge.
Hey man, I a producer for cine filter, and I do many diffusion filters,like the Pearlescent/Glimmer Glass/Digital Diffusion/TOBACCO/Antique Suede, and so on , totally 17 kinds of diffusion filters . Are you interested in talk with me ?
I subscribed because your grandma said so (lol). Can you please do a video on a general filter etc.
Grandma will appreciate it! Are you referring to cosmetic filters?
Robert Machado yes. Thank you. Man I love your professional contents. Keep it coming.
Yay Grandma!!!!!!!!!! :-)
By it nice, or buy it twice!
good comparison , but these white stripes hurts my eye.
I love these videos but It did grate on me that you said you wouldn’t find a 4x4 size on a professional set. That’s just simply not true.
Ok, grandma. 😊
GRANDMA IS DA BEST!!!
"That Tokina really looks great", Grandma says as naturally as she can! I sat through the first five minutes of the video before learning that it was a Tokina advert! So Tokina is as good as Schneider! Really?
she is so cute, thanks for the info man
He is good! OK
Your grand ma is awesome 🤩
Your grandma need to start a channel
this video was too cute
Kababayan! Salamat po! Gusto mo pancit?
+1 just because of grandma.
Haha