I agree completely. Wether it is kids talking to kids or kids talking to adults. It should be done in a constructive way to encourage them to think and investigate!
@@MyNameIsChristBringsASword yeah people in fictional places tend not to know or care what I think. People in real places too come to think of it. But apparently you care what I think, so that's cool.
@@Noromdiputs I care what you think as much as I care about squishing an ant under my thumb just to watch it die. But I appreciate every opportunity to witness for the Lord when you appear at the great white throne of judgment. I'll be there.
What I’d did with my daughter was tell the truth. When she asked me if I believed in god I said, no. Then we had an open, honest conversation. In middle school she wanted to go to a youth group with her friends so she went. Afterwards, when she brought it up, I asked how it went. She said, “Mom, it’s so stupid”. As far as Santa, I played the game because it was fun for me when I was a kid. But as soon as she questioned the Santa thing, I told her the truth. The truth is what matters.
My dad took me on a drive to tell me that Santa, the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy aren’t real. My immediate response was “Or god and Jesus???” 😂 He looked at me really weirdly and said “No! They’re real!” But I had more evidence of the other 3 characters than I did for god and Jesus. And I had just been told that the 3 I had evidence for were just my parents. I never really bought into Catholicism or any religious beliefs. So that day pretty much sealed the deal on my nonbelief. I was maybe 7. I refused to go to church anymore at 14. That’s a whole other story. So you’re damn right I do Santa, Easter bunny, and tooth fairy for my son. But I don’t do god and Jesus.
Maintaining the delusion of Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are temporary delusions. Santa is the only one of the three that has a knotty or nice list, like God does. All three involve some minor rituals and the delusion is created for the benefit of the child, teaches some lessons of behavior and sharing and ends with a reward and a happy experience for the child. The difference here is that somewhere between ages 7 and 11, the children are informed that the hoax has just been a fun game and children accept that because it has been rewarding.Those children, although they no longer believe that these characters are real, continue to enjoy the make believe fantasy of Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and carry the tradition on with their children. There is nothing wrong with fantasies and the make believe for entertainment, as long as you know that they are not reality. I have no issue with any Christian that chooses to conduct their behavior and life according to the good and wise teachings of Christ. I wish more did. Those that believe that the delusion is actually reality are a greater menace to society than they are a benefit.
Hey, Matt. I know it’s been a week since you left the AXP but I just wanted to thank you for everything you’ve done on there and everywhere else online. You taught me how to think, reason, and question and you’ve changed my life for the better. I’m glad you’re still uploading to TH-cam
My uncle's family is deeply religious. All of his 9 kids are being fed his ideology constantly. So at Christmas get togethers in the past I have been trying to plant seeds. A hilarious moment was when two of his kids around 4 years old were telling me about god. I asked "where is he?" and looked around. One of them said God was Santa. The other one said he wasn't. I left them to have their theological debate.
I don't plant seeds I just straight up tell my nephews and neices that it isn't real and having a personal relationship with reality is monumentally better.
9 children? I shouldn't be judgemental but I will be. I can't help myself. Is he trying to out compete Genghis Khan? Your uncle seriously needs the v-sect.
@@PeterGregoryKelly Many religions promote large families. Plus, of course, indoctrinating that family in the religion. The obvious point is to outgrow the other religions, since it's *much* harder to pull people into the flock as adults.
When my two nieces were about 4 and 7, their great-grandma died and they missed her very much. I was in my 20s but was the “fun aunt” and they pretty much thought I was a bigger kid who would take them fun places. They asked me if they would see their great-grandma again. I said something like, well, she died, remember going to her funeral? They brought up seeing her in heaven. Surprised, (I knew they didn’t go to church; their mother had no church tradition and my brother had quit going at 16. But I didn’t know their views.) I waffled and said I didn’t know anything about heaven, they should talk to their mom and dad. Chickened out. I never had any belief in imaginary things, just was born doubting everything I was told. I’m 71 now and still feel like I let them down. I knew what they wanted to hear, but I couldn’t say it and also didn’t want to start a big fight. The oldest always has a new woo thing she’s chasing, and I’ve never heard the youngest make any comment on the subject.
Don’t feel guilty. That’s a very difficult subject to broach even for the pros. As long as you’re alive you still have the opportunity to move ideas along. It may be easier now that they’re adults? The one following the next woo subject might benefit from a good book . 😊 Best wishes!
I think chickening out would have been affirming that they would see her in heaven for sure. I think you did a great job. You let them know not everyone believed what they were told, but you didn’t undermine their parents had told them. You left the door open. Good job!
I think you did the right thing. IT's not your place at that age. They should talk to their parents. If you had kids you wouldn't want family telling them to be afraid of hell.
@God's Servant Sometimes you have to accept the truth, and stop wasting your time on the wrong crowd. Passive aggressive behavior consumes unnecessary time, and resources. Please proselytize elsewhere. ✌🏼
@God's Servant Slight problem, the dictionary is descriptive. Thats why it gets updated as words and their usage changed. Also, no one learns how to speak from a dictionary. Also also, the dictionary is both a more interesting book to read and has better lessons in it than the Bible does.
Matt, way back in the 80s, still sort of a believer, while working at a daycare center, two kids about 7 or 8 yrs came up to me and told me I was going to burn! It was creepy, they looked like twins (the girl was a year older) they held hands and spoke, monotone in unison! I smiled, asked why and they said because I was wearing jewelry. Most of our kids were migrants, these were not, their parents were well to do and 7th day Adventists. I was only 22 and fairly new. I laughed, nicely and said 'well a lot of people have different beliefs.' I was already deconstructing but hadn't quite gone all the way. So I did ask if they thought a nice God would burn people for something as silly as jewelry?' They thought a few minutes, conferred in their weird silent way, and with a look of relief said no! They became much more normal and played that day and for a couple more. Then they stopped coming, might have been that or just the plan in the first place, I don't know. 👍🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌
👋🏼😃 Hi Laura! That’s an interesting story, and you might have been the difference those children needed. Such a simple, yet powerful thing to get them to ask themselves a question.
I lived next door to a Mormon family. They were at my house playing with my children, when one announced that people with dark skin are evil (I can't remember Mormon theology anymore, but I'm sure you get what they were saying based on their religion). I simply asked what made them dark, and we proceeded into a lesson on melanin, and how almost everyone had it, and it was just the amount that varied. I asked them if they were all more evil in the summer because they were darker. So I did not tell them what to think, I tried to give them a small lesson about HOW to think and how to look things up and know they were reliable. They were also against science, so I would ask them why they wore glasses, and drove cars and used microwaves. How can you use the product of evil and not BE evil. I have no idea if it took, but the real audience was my own kids as they went to church with these little monsters (The monster part is from them torturing and killing animals with their parents blessing, which ended any further visits once I found that out. One of my kids raised pedigree rats, and gave one to them, only to find out that they put it in a glass container, put it in the sun, and watched it die. Not the best thing to do if they wanted my kids to become Mormon [heavy sarcasm]).
Excellent! That's exactly the best way to handle this! Don't belittle them and make them shut down -- just help them to develop their thinking skills to find the flaw in that way of thinking themselves.
@@Andrea.1tree yeah, that sounds like a rare and extreme case. but nonetheless, people like these often have the fitting bible verses / supernatural justifications for actions like these at hand ("i can let that little animal die painfully because i have dominion over it anyway" or whatever) which makes it harder for kids to question certain actions. you already have to rely on your parents as a kid and if even the almighty authority above their parents "says" that certain things are okay or not and if not following them means nasty punishment, then oh boy...i really hope those kids came out of this with as little damage as possible.
@@Andrea.1tree Yes, and when my kids were making chalk drawings on my driveway with them, we were visited by a stray dog that was not being aggressive in any way, and this kid picks up a brick and proceeds to try to smash the dog. I stopped him (I was watching the kids while the parents ran an errand) and he responded by saying I had no right. I had to take the brick away and tell him that when his parents made me responsible for him it gave me authority to tell him to stop). I got a visit later from his mom. She did nothing but defend him but abuse like that is inexcusable. I have so many stories like that about others in that church too. I moved far away from that area.
@@asator0505 I think it’s not as rare as you might think. Not anymore. The more prolific home schooling has become, the more an isolated environment for abuse becomes common. Not to mention the maga mentality festering since 2016. If you’ve ever heard of a religion/cult called 7m, and understand how incorporated it is in our government. Including the SC, you might have some concerns. You have to dig deep for names, but you can google the religion.
Good question to ponder. One of my brother's kids approached me one day and asked "why don't you love God?" It was obvious this was because my brother had disclosed my atheism to his kids at some point. It was awkward and insulting and I said something like "I don't want to talk about this with you." Partially because on other occasions, I have been warned by family members not to share my views with their children. It's a bit of a mess but I just want peace. When they're old enough, I'll probably open up more, but it can really be a tightrope when you're trying not to get disowned.
I was born an atheist, but I let my oldest go to church with a friend and she seemed to like it for a while. I want my kids to make their own decisions just as I was allowed to do. Last night I made a comment about some politician being motivated by their beliefs in their particular version of God. My 12 year old daughter's response was "Sky Daddy?". I couldn't help but laugh, and feel a bit proud of her. I didn't know she had put any effort into discovering whether or not those other adults were telling the truth. Obviously she had.
I agree with letting kids make their own decisions, but like adults they need as much information as possible. The difference between children and adults, children are reliant on adults, for the obvious reasons but also learning all the things in life. Unfortunately many children never get much exposure to cultures/religions/etc. outside of their parents’ or adult caretakers.
@@steveswangler6373 thankfully my daughter did some looking into various religions and already came to what I see as the appropriate conclusion. She's curious and seems to want to still research the topic. I like that and feel the more she looks into it, the more information she gets, the more she will come to the correct conclusion
I informed my young daughter that religous beliefs are ridiculous, and spent many years speaking to her on how abusive religion is. I even said: PLEASE do your best and not fall in love with a Christain man (I explained all the reasons behind that). She agreed. She's now grown and a practicing Psychologist. She is living an extremely well to do life. Seems all my talks paid off as well (plus her Uni Lol). I would NEVER let my kids go on a religous camp! As you never place your children in harms way.
I have 9yo daughter. I've talked to her like an adult since she started school. There was a couple times I felt bad ruining the "magic of childhood." But that is one of those things like "southern hospitality." It's nice on the surface, but it can be a real shock when someone turns the hospitality off. The longer the deception goes on, the worse shock is when the curtain is pulled. Tell kids the truth as soon as there's a good opportunity.
Thanks matt for a great vid!!! This best example that i have about the level of deceit that does happen to children, I found out that santa wasn't real at 8, I was in shock, how could the adults perpetuate this lie, so with this realization in hand i went to school to tell my 8 year old brethren about it at show and tell, in the morning you had to tell the teacher what you going to present at show and tell, the teacher saw what i had written and was shocked and with quick response said to go to the principal's office!!! i was stunned and little upset, and when you are 8 years old going to the principals office meant to me that i had done something wrong!!! So at the principals office, got called in, The principal asked why i had been sent there, i responded i found out that santa wasn't real and i wanted to tell the class. With a raised eyebrow she said you are not allowed to!!! i said ok may i go back to class, the response was yes, i didn't go back to class i went down to the back of school oval and sat pondering then i had realization, I just got into trouble for telling the truth... What other things have they been lying about!!!
Finding out my parents lied about Santa was traumatic for me and I realized I could no longer trust them. I went along with the Santa thing when my kids were little because they already knew about it, but when asked I told them it was just a story and they were smart for realizing that. I also told them to keep it to themselves though, because other adults wouldn’t like them to spread that info around.
That is an earthshaking revelation at such a young age. I always believed that people who perpetuate the story of Santa without informing their children of it’s fairytale aspects, run the risk of losing their children’s trust when they find out the truth.
Excellent Video. I think telling a child “God is just something that parents made up in order to get kids to behave” is more likely to produce undesirable results because the parents and the vast majority of the child's in-group are likely to believe in God themselves. A better way to address the situation would probably be to ask questions that ultimately plant seeds of doubt regarding the child’s belief. Then show the child how they wouldn’t want to be judged the way he/she is judging gay people. I’d ask things like: Have your parents ever told you something that is not true? Questioning the existence of Santa Clause could be a great way to show the child that their parents don’t always tell the truth. Do you know what gay is? Do you know anyone that is gay? How do you know you aren’t gay? How would you feel if your friends accused you of being “of the Devil” because of _____ (some physical feature the child can’t control such as eye color, height, shape of nose or ears, etc.)? I’d close by saying, I don’t believe that gay people are “of the Devil” and it’s wrong and hurtful to say such things.
Bad idea to bring up things like gay! Need to talk about how their parents are going to hell for not killing those who work saturday as the bible commands!
From my experience, evangelicals believe Santa is a variation of Satan. I had to grow up without an Xmas tree even. Their focus is biblical based, and they spend a lot of time telling kids how “god gave his only son for your sins”. It’s a twisted method of indoctrination using guilt for being a sinner, and “god” had to kill his son to forgive those sins. Then comes the guilt. Smh. Imo it’s child abuse.
Another one of my daughter's reported that her Christian studies teacher said "...If you don't believe God is king then you should go to hell. Atheists deserve death..." I'm torn on whether to make a formal complaint to the headmaster or not. Doing so would out my family and might make things more difficult for my kids. I have defaulted to not making a complaint and just talking with my kids about their classes afterwards. I hope this is the best long term approach
The problem is the Headmaster is probably of the same opinion, if their teachers think that's what they're supposed to teach. Whenever I hear crap like this it reminds me how lucky I am that my kids are going to a school where these values of hate and fear are not being instilled through religious bigotry. In fact there is no religious element in their schooling at all.
I think it is fair that a child responds to a hateful comment with challenging retort. Often the child doesn't really understand the depth of their parents' hate speak and usual say what they do in mimicry. Receiving an opposing view would add another perspective to their world. I think children are less defensive of indoctrinated ideas at an early age since the ideas are still seated in their 'play' thinking.
@@paulgemme6056 🤣 your either pulling a prank or have no idea . If you really wanted to, you could look into the research for yourself. I can give you a basic starter: changes in allele frequencies. There is so much more evidence than just this but its a basic starter.
@@paulgemme6056 wrong. You and I are evidence of life on earth, for which there is overwhelming evidence of evolution and zero evidence of a god called Yhwy having done anything at all other than be the creation of near-Eastern tribes.
@@mdug7224 I usually put a report to UT about commenters of pg's kind and alike, since they aren't out for a discussion but to win a dispute not matter how low or banally they have to go.
I agree that talking to kids respectfully is usually the way to go, for sure. As for telling kids their parents are wrong? That one is difficult. In this case, I think it's legit. I mean, what you say in the spur of the moment, may not be 100% accurate, in this example. But this kid is walking up to people to tell damaging things to others, which harms them and their interactions. The kid initiated. I think it's fine to plant a seed of doubt there.
Unfortunately in Australia, private schools, which generally provide better education quality compared to public schools, are religious. I often use their religious classes as a portal to conversations where I get them to think more about epistemology. One of my daughter's came home once day claiming that everything in the bible was true. After a few gentle questions I was able to get her to understand how difficult it is to support that claim and that not everything in books is necessarily true.
Yeh it's a real problem. Given the last census showed secularism is on the rise, I like to think that it's only a matter of time before secular private education becomes a thing.
Why private school? Why not campaign for more equitable funding for public schools and campaign against funding religious schools? The tax payer dollars are bankrolling religious education and as an Australian I am not happy with this.
@@PeterGregoryKelly that's true. But my activism is not going to make systemic change for my four kids before they leave school. So I just need to deal with the system as it is
Man that's a tough question. I think I would ask them questions to direct them to think about that idea. Something along the lines of: I thought god loves everyone or where did your parents learn that? Get them thinking and asking themselves and their parents questions. Then I would ask if they had any gay friends? Do you think they are bad? Could your parents be or have they ever been wrong or mistaken before? Sparking a child to think is invaluable and will go with them for their lifetime.
I tell kids that not everyone thinks that way. I let them know that there are other opinions that are different from their parents, and I tell them it’s okay to believe different things than their parents. When I was a teenager, babysitting some kids, they told me some cockamamie story their mom told them about how babies were conceived, and then they told me a correct, kid version a classmate had told them. They asked me which was correct and I didn’t lie to them. I did include that maybe their mom thought they were too young to know what was the truth, but I couldn’t just lie to them or let them be confused about it. They were obviously in anguish about it. I never got to sit for those kids again but I wouldn’t change how I handled it. Also, finding out my parents lied to me about Santa being real was a tremendous blow to me. That sounds really stupid, I know, but it’s true. I was devastated to find out the people I trusted the most had lied to me. Santa didn’t seem believable to me, but they insisted, so I trusted them, and then I found out they lied to my face. That’s how I learned to be skeptical. If you can’t trust your own parents, who can you trust. FYI I didn’t believe anyone when they said there was a god, either.
@@diamondlife8086 He has been suffering from double vision due to a related health issue. The patch just alleviates that. He doesn't wear it all the time.
A few years back you said something along the lines "your children are not "yours", you are the steward of them, in charge of their wellbeing" (you mention it again in this video). It might sound silly, but this line removed the concept of property I had, to some extent, for my children and someone else's children. I used to just "feel wrong" about some parenting things; now I can I can put into words those feelings and draw a line between good and bad parenting (of course that line is still blurry in a lot of places, but I'll take every improvement I can find).
I think that we all need to be careful what we say to other people's children, because it is easy to effectively say "your parents are liars". My own approach has always been to use the "I don't believe that but some people do" on matters relating to faith, religion etc. Only once in my 70 years have I heard a child express explicitly racist ideas on that occasion I felt no hesitation in telling the child they were wrong, the child was old enough to understand right and wrong and not expressing my view would have, I felt, been an assent to their view.
I think that is a great approach. To tell the child that these are personal beliefs and that not everyone believes the same thing. I also don't agree with telling kids that their parents are liars. The parents are brainwashed also. Although I don't understand how anyone in this day and age, can possibly still believe in a god.
When I was a kid, I had to go to a catholic school 1st thru 3rd grade. So I was full of questions: "how did Jesus do this and that?" Of course their only answer was "it's all a miracle." I thought "phooey! That's not an answer." I was told to stop asking questions. When I eventually got to the public school, I said "Whew! Thank god." Don't lie to kids about reality.
Religion is the main reason that our country is so divided right now. If you raise children to believe (with all their heart) and center their life around, an invisible wizard in the sky, you reward a magical method of thinking. That can’t (or is very difficult) be compartmentalized. You are teaching them that, not only is it acceptable, it’s good to wholeheartedly believe things that have no supporting evidence or even good evidence to the contrary. No wonder 1/2 of the country believes that an election was stolen or that teachers are grooming children even though there is nothing that substantiates these claims. It’s so frustrating, conversing with someone who holds a belief that they can’t be reasoned out of. Unfortunately, this is the current state of affairs in America.
If the kid is out in the world, and coming up to strangers spewing hate and lies, it is reasonable to assume that the parents consent to this behavior. That consent presupposes that exposure to other ideologies is a distinct possibility for that child... On the off chance that the child has not yet been sufficiently immunized against critical thinking, then not only is it your right to set them straight, I would say it's a moral responsibility as a member of society to protect against harmful ideologies whenever possible, regardless of where the lies came from. At the very least, sowing the seeds of doubt in their minds should be priority one for any such encounter!
Here's my general thought on "Religion and Children": Most of the major religions propagate themselves by preying upon vulnerable people (or perhaps more accurately, creating vulnerable people to prey upon), and what is more vulnerable than the mind of a child?
You can expect that child's parent(s) will be doing damage control soon after, almost certainly using the deceitful practices their religion uses. I think the seed planted in that child's mind will likely have the best chance of making them actually consider the validity of what they've been taught. It targets the root problem and will probably be more likely to become a persistent nagging question in their brain, which will increase the chance of them seeking out other sources of information.
@PutridCobra My grandmother did this for me by encouraging me to read other books and think for myself. "Always ask questions if you don't understand something." Saying "I don't know" is honest. " If it sounds like bullshit it probably is"!
It's mind blowing that Christians learn early on that Santa doesn't exist but easily accept for their whole life that this other "Santa baby", which is even more magical and unrealistic, is actually real. It's so on the nose but they can't figure out the similarity. Is the Santa concept a weird and twisted way of preying on trust? Why would you implement something that ridicules Christianity into "new" Christianity? Is the way of thinking: "If all this Jesus stuff isn't real, at some point in my childhood my parents would have told me it's nonsense...... even if they lied to me before."
i believe i was around the same age. absolutely crazy the stuff i believed due to such indoctrination, even when my friends knew santa wasnt real at like 9 lol
The best thing you can do for your children is tell them what you believe and why, then encourage them to learn about other religions, atheism, philosophy, epistemology and teach them critical thinking. Then let them make up their OWN minds.
I really enjoy these videos. This one was especially well stated. I have to agree with Matt here. I have 3 kids and they grew up to be free thinkers. I was always upfront and honest with them when they asked me questions about religion or any general issue. But whilst giving my opinion I also let them know that I am present for them as a guide and that I will respect whichever path they choose so long as that path is not bringing harm upon their self or others. Life has many grey areas but there are also several issues that are right or wrong. We owe it to ourselves to right clear wrongs within our community for the betterment of everyone and to clear up misinformation some of these kids are getting at home. Saying "gay people are of the devil" in itself is a relatively benign phrase but that kind of poisonous thinking can lead to future harmful behaviors. As fellow humans we must correct this kind of thinking because of the potential end result of this mindset.
I think the ground rules are if someone else's kid asks you a question, you can answer as honestly as possible. But proselytizing to someone else's kid is off limits. (Sunday school is some brainwashing bs)
We sent our son to a Catholic lower school. He attended from what in Australia is called Pre Pre School i.e., he started when he was 5 years old and left when he was 12 years old. Myself and my now ex-wife were both Atheists, but the public school was a bit of a jungle, and we thought that at least the Catholic school would teach better values, which I believe was the case. We were able to enroll him as the school has just started and they were prepared to enroll any kids, regardless of the parents' faith. They just wanted bums on seats for the first few years. The first "problem" was when our son came home and asked why we hadn't told him about God and Jesus as earlier that day he'd been to church as part of the religious teaching of the school. It turned out when the priest had asked who in the class of about 30 or so little kids, knew about God and Jesus. Our son said that everyone in the class had put their hand up except him. After a couple of years of going to church during classes, my son asked me (by that time the now ex-wife had walked out on us) if I believed in God and Jesus. I tried to be a little diplomatic by saying that I didn't, but it was up to him to make up his own mind. My son who was at that stage around 7 years old said to me that he found the whole thing, in his words, a load of crap and unbelievable. He said that is he'd been told about it as a small child he might have initially believed it but later on he would have thought about it as just another story parents told little kids. He said that he would go along with it when at school because it was what they were supposed to do. He also said some of his school friends whose parents were also not religious had come to the same conclusion.
I try to be as honest with kids as possible, and that includes telling them that bigots aren't the kind of friends most people want to have. I explained to one of my son's friends that not liking someone because of their skin color or religion told me he was judging them for unimportant things. He insisted he couldn't be friends with a certain boy "of color" and I asked him to tell me why. With every sentence I could hear his parents talking -- he'd memorized their reasons without thinking about what the words really meant. We talked for about 10 minutes and I'd like to believe he started to question some of the values he'd been taught.
This is such a compelling discussion. I think the truth matters. Even if it's someone else's child, we could help the child to re-examine the hateful belief but asking questions and allow them to make up their own mind. Usually it's very easy to belief a thing until it is challenged, and doubt is a necessary component in the journey to finding truth.
The children in my family chose atheism themselves. We are Buddhists and we consider it natural (we do not try to persuade them to do anything) My friend is raising his children to be Christians - I always tell them that you don't have to believe. I provide them with books about how the sects manipulate. During conversations, I expose the stupidity and hypocrisy of Christianity. I say that this is my point of view and that they are entitled to their own.
@God's Servant BIBLE QUOTES! Here are some of mine. It's been a long time, a nearly unimaginable amount of time, in which we have been forced to cling to the shadows of history. During that time, we have been ostracized and endured cruelty beyond that of any civilization in history...but we have persevered, and that is all behind us. The time for the Bount to finally be released from the darkness is finally approaching." Jin Kariya, Bleach anime; Episode 74 "Listen well! Be gone from here! I don't have time nor the patience to teach a mere infant like you how to breathe." Genryusai Shigekuni Yamamoto, Bleach manga; Chapter 155, page 6
@God's Servant I always find it funny that you people think that in 2022 people don’t believe because they lack access to your book. Which is available for free all over the internet.
The best study of religion, totally agree that after an apocalypse, some science would be rediscovered, but new religions would be completely different. There's a lesson here.
Maybe religions would be the same but under different names because religious dogma contains concepts that fulfill the psychological needs of societies.
I liked your teaching of racism metaphor. Frankly, I just don't interact with other people's kids very often so it doesn't come up. However, I like to think I treat both situations similarly. I quickly show my scorn and make it clear that I don't stan bs.
As someone who talked queer kids of religious parents out of suicide in online therpy platforms, and as someone who constantly had to make it clear to kids I gave private lessons to that they were actually a lot smarter than their parents -- I would go to great lengths to protect and nourish the mind of a child. I would do it in a healthy, sustainable, respectful way, though -- adapted to thw situation.
Santa Claus , the Tooth Fairy and Baby Jesus in the Nativity are things children grow out of when they reach a certain age. The problem is when adults still believe in any of these things ......
As a man with two adult children I believe it is always best to tell kids and adults to think for themselves. Now when my kids asked if i believed in a god i did not lie. I simply told them i personally do not believe but billions of people do. So, if you have questions or you are curious about god or a specific religion go look into it yourself. Both of my adult sons are non-believers!
I think we should have more (for lack of a better term) faith in young people. Just because children are raised a certain way that doesn't mean they're forever trapped in those ways. There are plenty of things my parents taught me that I completely reject (including religion). For that reason, I would say that encouraging children to think critically and giving them the tools to reach more reliable conclusions is the best route.
My kids have grown up free from being indoctrinated in any religion or any god beliefs. We have studied many religions and I think they understood that all of those different religions can’t all have the same god/s and that what religion you are was mainly what your parents are or what part of the world you were born. It’s is so incredible when little kids can spot issues in religious teachings. My kids have always cared about being fair and being equal and they can find discrepancies in religious texts quickly.
When I was six or seven years old, the younger sister of one of my friends told me her uncle had died and gone to heaven. I replied he wasn’t, he was buried in a cemetery.
Teach your children atheism - this universe, our world annd their lives are a meaningless, purposeless, temporary chemical accident of no real significance. Teach them that it it all ends in annihilation - no matter how they live their lives. Nothing really matters. It all ends in a rotting dirt-bath and annihilation. Teach them atheism. Teach children they have no free-willed soul to choose freely or morally. Let them know that all actions are 100% chemically determined and not freely chosen. Thus, they have no real choice about rape or theft or murder. These are just chemically determined outcomes that nobody chooses. There is no free-will or souls choosing, just chemicals causing whatever the chemicals cause to happen. Teach them atheism. Teach your children that morality is a figment of human imagination, another false chemical delusion about things not true in reality. In objective reality there are no objective moral duties and nothing to be right or wrong about. Any 'morality' is just a delusional byproduct of chemical evolution that can be discarded at convenience. Teach them atheism. What could go wrong?
I babysit for a family pretty often, and the kids will sometimes ask me why god does something or they’ll tell me a “fact” about god. I never know exactly why to say, but usually I brush it off or say I don’t know. I think their parents are good people and are just the kind that go to church out of tradition. But I do sometimes question wether it’s appropriate to say what I really believe in those circumstances.
You have options in your response. You can play in their sandbox or attempt to be more grounded in reality. You can try to be educational or you can entertain yourself with giving them a crazier concept. The first concern is do you say anything. IMO- If the child is free to say something to you, then you are free to say something to them. You should keep it clean. If don't want people cussing your kid, then you shouldn't cuss their kid. You could just say, "You are wrong. The devil can't make people... gay, straight, or otherwise."
This kind of brainwashing sticks with kids, all the way until they are 90 years old. I drive a semi-truck in the mountains of Colorado at night. Last week, I hit a bull elk and killed it. When I got to the store I was to deliver to in a mountain town, an older, 70 year old shelf stocker came up to me and said, "The Lord told me to tell you that Psalm 91 will protect you when your drive at night." I just looked at him stunned, and then I walked away. The reality of this situation is that the man didn't care about what I went through with that bull elk, instead, he just saw it as his opportunity to proselytize. He probably learned these methods as a child in Good New Club.
My thought on what should be done in this situation, you don't have to tell the kid they or their parents are wrong. That might make them dig their heals in deeper and become more entrenched in their nonsense. Just tell them kindly but emphatically that you don't agree with that and you can say why. Also ask them why they believe that, how they know. They probably have no good reason. My experience growing up is just knowing that there are people who have different points of view can be powerful when it comes to questioning what you've been told l. Also, when you can't give a reason for your belief, that also can make people doubt.
I think my only disagreement is the idea that, essentially, the ends justify the means, and that you can do things that otherwise may not be permissible because it's "right". Ypu are not the arbitrator of what is right in the world, only for yourself. (I agree with you here, just the line of thinking that I find worrying.)
Well the story you mentioned is honestly why I’ve always believed children shouldn’t be allowed or forced to participate in religion until they have reached the age of maturity in their country/state etc. If all kids are exposed to is religious bigotry until they reach adulthood and enter “the real world”, they are not well adjusted to environments that don’t share their worldview. Just look at what’s happening in the US, conservatives are trying to make a secular nation adopt laws based on “Christian morality”. Honestly the only way to combat this is to encourage critical thinking in secular environments aka the public school system
If the child initiates the conversation, especially if they start off telling you what is true and not, then I see no problem in telling them the truth.
I was sent to Sunday school. Read the Bible cover to cover. Figured out religion was a bunch of nonsense a little after I figured out Santa had assistants on his payroll in my house.
I love this guy and I’m no atheist, I got so much respect for him love listening to his videos, his viewers however, at a glance always seem spiteful. 🤷🏻♂️
To the best of my recollection (which may not be very good), when I was young (late teens and early twenties), I thought god and Santa were basically the same. Not that Santa was a god, but that people said they were real for cultural and traditional reasons, and that no one really believed in them. When, in the navy, I first encountered a true believer, I was shocked.
Though I understand and agree with most of what you said, I feel that it's a bit more complicated than that. Following your analogy, imagine if there were no garden that belongs to anybody in particular, but one massive communal garden instead. In this arrangement, it's impossible for any one person to take care of all that grows everywhere or for everyone to agree on what to grow where so there's a certain unspoken social contract about who takes care of what and how. Given this situation, if some person randomly came in and planted some stuff you don't like in the area you usually take care of, on what grounds would you argue that they are in the wrong? Now, one may say this is an inappropriate analogy because one's mind is 100% their own, but that's just not true. Our thoughts and ideas are mostly a result of our environment. Nobody wakes up one day and suddenly decides that roses are ugly and nettle is a great addition to the garden, that idea came from somewhere else. In terms of contents, your mind belongs to the people that surround you as much as it belongs to you. The next problem I have is, on what grounds do we decide where to draw the line? When is a weed so toxic that it simply has to go out, no matter what? Because sure, there are some obvious answers, but there are many ambiguous ones too. How do you know that you're actually taking out some dangerous plant and not one that just gave you the runs a couple of times but has other beneficial properties? These kind of questions I struggle with all the time.
My answer to your question is generally YES. For the average multi generational family in North America: The difference between Santa Clause and God is that children raised to believe in Santa are not expected to still believe in Santa at around age 8, yet the belief in god is still perpetuated AFTER the age of 8. You don't need to be a parent to know that: I'm 52 and never had kids, (at least not yet. LOL). All one needs is a memory of being the age where those things were learned, and unfortunately most people don't remember being younger than about 14, ( I know I'm exaggerating but people seem to be proud of not having memories of childhood as thought that helps their argument) which makes them feel as though 13 year olds are babies when they can actually already have children of their own at that age (although I wouldn't advise doing so at such a young age). Unfortunately People too dumb to remember being a kid are dictating how the world ought to be for both kids and adults. I'm happy to be any part of whatever curtails that. I don't usually watch your "atheist debates" series, but this time I did, because it hit a nerve with me; (even though I'm not gay). To summarize: I think it's ok to call out a kid who gets into anyone's face to proudly state that gay people are "of the devil". Those kids brought it into the public, so it's the public's responsibility to respond to that brainwashed kid who's now trying to brainwash anyone else that'll listen, especially since nobody taught this kid that children are seen but are not heard (except for preaching hateful christian fundamentalist bigotry of course.) Keep calling out bigotry ESPECIALLY in kids. Nip it in the bud. Thanks for posting, Matt!
i would tell them that all opinions and views on any subject/matter are of people and there are many different opinions among people and that includes what they are taught by their parents.
I grew up in a Catholic family and was sent to a Catholic elementary school. I never believed that there was a god. None of what they said made any sense to me, even as a child. I would sit there thinking, how can all of these people believe that ridiculous stories these priests are pushing. I always felt that how can this loving god let all of these bad things happen. Why would anyone worship a god like that? One that lets men beat their wives, or let children get sick and die. A god that created every single thing, according to them, but also made us get cancer? How can people overlook that?
Plus, he made life in so many variations (according to them), yet he's a total retard when it comes to genetics. 🤣 (Noah's story) Forgot the Adam and Eve story. 🤣
I try not to get too involved in discussions of religion with other people's kids. I won't shy away from it if it happens, (calling into your show for example, all bets are off,) but any "meddling" I've done has been more about clarifying what *I* believe and not so much in criticism of anything they are being taught. In the end, it's kind of a roundabout way of the same thing, just not quite so blatant. I wouldn't have told a little kid what they did, who ran up and proudly proclaimed such a thing to me in a playground. However, I would have said something. Probably along the line of "I don't believe in devils and you should probably get back to your parents."
My neighbor has dogs and one of them is a puppy that kept jumping the fence. He's made efforts to make the fence larger but the dog keeps getting out. I can tell he doesn't care much for them and only keeps them for his kids. I don't get angry when the dog gets out, just concerned because it like to chase cats into the street. One day I met the dog when I got out of my car so I walked him over and range there door bell. A kid answered and I stayed here you go, the dog ran in and the kid said thanks and slammed the door. Understandable, especially if he's home alone. No more than 10 min later, their dogs on my porch. I walk him back over again. Another kid about the same age answers the door this time along with the last kid behind him. They definitely were alone. Before they closed the door, I said if you let him out side just watch him. Now, I have a very monotone voice and I rushed that sentence out. When their dad arrived home he was furious. Their doorbell is also a camera and he heard me talk to his kids. He came over to tell me, as he was shaking with rage, that I will not speak to children in such an egressive manner. I said one sentence in the tone that speak with literally every person and I got lit up by this guy. I've been around kids my entire life, I get along with kids very well. I just have this blah voice that makes public speaking very difficult which is why i try to speak clear and concisely. I shouldn't have said anything. No matter what I said he would have blown up because he wasn't there to begin with to protect his kids so I understand his paranoia. Sometimes, no matter your interaction, parents may seek confrontation. Extreme caution should be taken when interacting with anyone else's kids even if you think you are being nice, the parents may already be set on tearing your head off.
Somehow youve blurred over what it was that he was upset about. Or what he may have possibly been upset about . People aren't normally livid about getting their dog returned and being told to watch their own dog better. ???
In an effect to strike at the root, I'd probably say something like "it's okay to doubt your parents, your teachers, your pastor, and everyone else who tells you what to think. You can pick and choose what you believe, and the sooner you start, the more of YOU and the less of anyone else is in your beliefs. But you shouldn't talk to strangers, and I'm a stranger, so buzz off."
When my classmate told me that ‘Sinterklaas’ (The Dutch version of Santa Claus (who introduced it in the USA)) didn’t exist at the age of around 8, this started my path to a non believer. One year later I didn’t believe in Jehova anymore and refused to sing along with the songs in church. Especially the genocidal songs like ‘the walls of Jericho’. So I thank Sinterklaas for the start of my critical thinking skills. Once my nephew at the same age asked about Sinterklaas, I asked him if he wanted to know the truth. He did, so I told him. However he remained a sort of believer for another year. He liked to believe because it is such a fun celebration. I loved SInterklaas and still do. I don’t mind ‘lying’ this way, because it has positive intentions. Like your surprise party example.
Do you recall that " suprise party" short story where they pretended to arrest a dude to take him to his surprise party and he died of a heart attack as the lift opened?
If the child is mature enough to ask the questions, they should have an answer straight forward enough to get them thinking. At the very least. Point them in the direction of a good book to help that thinking progress. It matters what their age is. I agree with the conversation starter “this is what I believe”. Promoting the idea that there are different opinions besides their parents can be a huge crack in the wall of indoctrination. The world of the evangelical child is governed by a myriad of rules promoting fear of everyone, and everything. If they have progressed far enough that they have questions, and are willing to ask an outsider, that is a veritable cry for help. Please answer it, or point the way to someone who can.
I agree (5:50); I strongly encourage taking to kids in a normal, adult manner. I've found, in addition to the long bit below, that when we speak "baby-talk" to children, it can condition us to condescend to small people. Even though I do my best to speak normally and without condescending to or patronizing everyone, I still catch myself clutching bad concepts. When I'm talking to, say, a grown woman who is also particularly petite, or a fella of diminutive stature, I will notice myself unconsciously giving less weight to his or her opinions and ideas... just like one would with a child. I default to that, and it's difficult to learn not to. I think it's a bad idea to talk down to anyone, for many reasons (see below, again), not least because we train ourselves to talk down to anyone else who resembles the people we've decided to condescend to. Any small adult can tell you a dozens of times when they experienced condescending or patronizing behavior from other adults. Not only will they cherish the unusual and highly enjoyable feeling of being treated like they're not "just a kid," as Matt mentioned - people (and dogs too, thanks to their interations with us), to a high degree, conform to the roles we give them. Treat people like animals, and most of them are going to act that way in return, sooner or later. Most children love being treated more like a fellow adult. Trust them with a little unexpected respect, trust, and responsibility, and you're likely to find them so grateful and so happy that they will work to earn and deserve the trust you've extended, not least because they understand the rewards inherent in treating the given responsibility like a respectful adult. If they don't cut themselves, don't mess around with or damage them, areturn the scissors with a "thank you," , it's more likely to be repeated than if they run around threatening other kids with them, spend hours outside cutting up the flower patch, and leave 'em on the floor covered in mud.
Same. When I was 10 or 11 my family spent a few days of vacation with another family, the mother being one of my mother's old school friends. Her husband was the first adult I can recall talking to me like I was just another adult, and as I recall we had some great chats. I determined then that when I was an adult I'd always talk to children, no matter how old, as equals. They're younger and have less life experience, but that doesn't make them lesser beings or second class citizens or stupid.
On the whole, I agree with Matt and his careful, thoughtful concern for kids. He has the makings of a good parent. And teaching kids that anybody is going to hell, is despicable. And in my theology, also despicable. I'm certain there is no hell, that it is purely a human construct for the purposes of controlling others, in particular people who behave badly. I understand that some form of control may be necessary to weed out bad behaviors, I just don't think "hell" is the way to do it. To me, it has human vengeance written all over it. Having grown up a Christian (Congregationalist), I find it particularly troubling for any so-called Christian to be bigoted, as the man they think they're following, did not have a bigoted bone in his body. He treated all people with respect, in particular the downtrodden. He said: "whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, you do also unto me." For followers of his to be so hateful, means they hurt themselves, their kids, their community, their master, and their religion, making it unpalatable to strangers. One could even make the argument that they have allowed themselves to be seduces by the devil, for it is the devil who benefits the most from people grossly misrepresenting Jesus to others. It's just a thought. Have a nice day.
I think the best course of action when dealing with someone else's children and religion, is to only answer direct questions from them. If they ask you if you believe in God, you tell them the truth. If they ask why, then you give them your reasons. You're doing nothing wrong by telling them the truth as to what you believe. It's probably safe to tell them why you personally don't believe, rather than telling them why they shouldn't believe or why their reasons are inadequate to warrant belief. What you shouldn't do is to volunteer your opinions and beliefs, even though the child never asked you any direct questions.
One more quick comment……I keep reptiles. I also live in south Florida and have connections with lots of keepers/breeders. I’m happy to assist you if you’d like.
As a parent, I would tell that child the truth as I understand it. If someone is going to train their child to walk up to random people and "preach" to them, then those parents need to accept that honest people will push back.
I work with kids from 4-16 as a martial arts instructor, and the santa thing comes up every year or two. If any child raises the subject in a public class, I usually shut it down in public then speak to them in private. I ask them what they think, then don't contradict that, and suggest that if they have more questions, they talk to their parents. If they talk about God, I'd outright say in public that I don't have the same beliefs as them, but they should speak to their parents. There is a tangible cost in not sharing the God belief of their family. If they started spouting bigotry justified as theism, I would DEFINITELY disavow their beliefs there and then.
I read that exact anecdote 2 days ago, EXCEPT, it was the other person's KID who said "god is something parents made up yadda". Not the parent. Which makes me think this isn't a real story.
I don’t see any reason to think this is not a real story. Indoctrination at an early age will teach kids to say things like this, even if it is just mimicry.
If you teach your children to say horrible things to strangers, you deserve to have your authority undermined by those same strangers.
I agree completely. Wether it is kids talking to kids or kids talking to adults. It should be done in a constructive way to encourage them to think and investigate!
In hell nobody care's what you think
@@MyNameIsChristBringsASword yeah people in fictional places tend not to know or care what I think. People in real places too come to think of it. But apparently you care what I think, so that's cool.
@@Noromdiputs I care what you think as much as I care about squishing an ant under my thumb just to watch it die. But I appreciate every opportunity to witness for the Lord when you appear at the great white throne of judgment. I'll be there.
You wanna go to the ghettos and enforce that ?
What I’d did with my daughter was tell the truth. When she asked me if I believed in god I said, no. Then we had an open, honest conversation. In middle school she wanted to go to a youth group with her friends so she went. Afterwards, when she brought it up, I asked how it went. She said, “Mom, it’s so stupid”. As far as Santa, I played the game because it was fun for me when I was a kid. But as soon as she questioned the Santa thing, I told her the truth. The truth is what matters.
Excellent! Concur. Same here in my life with my kid.
Yes, indeed the truth is what matters and one day every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess to the truth. -Jesus Christ.
@Paul Gemme
Let me think about this a moment.....
Aaaahhhhmmmmm.....
No thanks.
Comfortable cowards never ask questions regarding themselves.
@@paulgemme6056
So you say. But you are just making an blind assertion without any good evidence. Why should anyone believe that?
My dad took me on a drive to tell me that Santa, the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy aren’t real. My immediate response was “Or god and Jesus???” 😂 He looked at me really weirdly and said “No! They’re real!” But I had more evidence of the other 3 characters than I did for god and Jesus. And I had just been told that the 3 I had evidence for were just my parents. I never really bought into Catholicism or any religious beliefs. So that day pretty much sealed the deal on my nonbelief. I was maybe 7. I refused to go to church anymore at 14. That’s a whole other story.
So you’re damn right I do Santa, Easter bunny, and tooth fairy for my son. But I don’t do god and Jesus.
I love your profile pic! 🤣 As for your teaching reality to your son, good!
Maintaining the delusion of Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are temporary delusions. Santa is the only one of the three that has a knotty or nice list, like God does. All three involve some minor rituals and the delusion is created for the benefit of the child, teaches some lessons of behavior and sharing and ends with a reward and a happy experience for the child. The difference here is that somewhere between ages 7 and 11, the children are informed that the hoax has just been a fun game and children accept that because it has been rewarding.Those children, although they no longer believe that these characters are real, continue to enjoy the make believe fantasy of Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and carry the tradition on with their children. There is nothing wrong with fantasies and the make believe for entertainment, as long as you know that they are not reality. I have no issue with any Christian that chooses to conduct their behavior and life according to the good and wise teachings of Christ. I wish more did. Those that believe that the delusion is actually reality are a greater menace to society than they are a benefit.
Me too!
@Justin Gary What’s a lie?
Lucky!
We owe all the children the truth, no matter who"s child it is.
Atheism is not the truth.
Hey, Matt. I know it’s been a week since you left the AXP but I just wanted to thank you for everything you’ve done on there and everywhere else online. You taught me how to think, reason, and question and you’ve changed my life for the better. I’m glad you’re still uploading to TH-cam
My uncle's family is deeply religious. All of his 9 kids are being fed his ideology constantly. So at Christmas get togethers in the past I have been trying to plant seeds.
A hilarious moment was when two of his kids around 4 years old were telling me about god. I asked "where is he?" and looked around. One of them said God was Santa. The other one said he wasn't. I left them to have their theological debate.
I don't plant seeds I just straight up tell my nephews and neices that it isn't real and having a personal relationship with reality is monumentally better.
9 children? I shouldn't be judgemental but I will be. I can't help myself. Is he trying to out compete Genghis Khan? Your uncle seriously needs the v-sect.
@@PeterGregoryKelly Many religions promote large families. Plus, of course, indoctrinating that family in the religion. The obvious point is to outgrow the other religions, since it's *much* harder to pull people into the flock as adults.
🧢🧢🧢🧢
@@Vuyosaysomethin my son was there are heard the whole thing. It ain't no cap bruh
When my two nieces were about 4 and 7, their great-grandma died and they missed her very much. I was in my 20s but was the “fun aunt” and they pretty much thought I was a bigger kid who would take them fun places. They asked me if they would see their great-grandma again. I said something like, well, she died, remember going to her funeral? They brought up seeing her in heaven. Surprised, (I knew they didn’t go to church; their mother had no church tradition and my brother had quit going at 16. But I didn’t know their views.) I waffled and said I didn’t know anything about heaven, they should talk to their mom and dad. Chickened out. I never had any belief in imaginary things, just was born doubting everything I was told. I’m 71 now and still feel like I let them down. I knew what they wanted to hear, but I couldn’t say it and also didn’t want to start a big fight. The oldest always has a new woo thing she’s chasing, and I’ve never heard the youngest make any comment on the subject.
Don’t feel guilty. That’s a very difficult subject to broach even for the pros. As long as you’re alive you still have the opportunity to move ideas along. It may be easier now that they’re adults? The one following the next woo subject might benefit from a good book . 😊 Best wishes!
I think chickening out would have been affirming that they would see her in heaven for sure. I think you did a great job. You let them know not everyone believed what they were told, but you didn’t undermine their parents had told them. You left the door open. Good job!
I think you did the right thing. IT's not your place at that age. They should talk to their parents. If you had kids you wouldn't want family telling them to be afraid of hell.
@God's Servant Sometimes you have to accept the truth, and stop wasting your time on the wrong crowd. Passive aggressive behavior consumes unnecessary time, and resources. Please proselytize elsewhere. ✌🏼
@God's Servant Slight problem, the dictionary is descriptive. Thats why it gets updated as words and their usage changed. Also, no one learns how to speak from a dictionary. Also also, the dictionary is both a more interesting book to read and has better lessons in it than the Bible does.
Matt, way back in the 80s, still sort of a believer, while working at a daycare center, two kids about 7 or 8 yrs came up to me and told me I was going to burn! It was creepy, they looked like twins (the girl was a year older) they held hands and spoke, monotone in unison! I smiled, asked why and they said because I was wearing jewelry. Most of our kids were migrants, these were not, their parents were well to do and 7th day Adventists. I was only 22 and fairly new. I laughed, nicely and said 'well a lot of people have different beliefs.' I was already deconstructing but hadn't quite gone all the way. So I did ask if they thought a nice God would burn people for something
as silly as jewelry?' They thought a few minutes, conferred in their weird silent way, and with a look of relief said no! They became much more normal and played that day and for a couple more. Then they stopped coming, might have been that or just the plan in the first place, I don't know. 👍🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌
👋🏼😃 Hi Laura! That’s an interesting story, and you might have been the difference those children needed. Such a simple, yet powerful thing to get them to ask themselves a question.
I lived next door to a Mormon family. They were at my house playing with my children, when one announced that people with dark skin are evil (I can't remember Mormon theology anymore, but I'm sure you get what they were saying based on their religion). I simply asked what made them dark, and we proceeded into a lesson on melanin, and how almost everyone had it, and it was just the amount that varied. I asked them if they were all more evil in the summer because they were darker. So I did not tell them what to think, I tried to give them a small lesson about HOW to think and how to look things up and know they were reliable. They were also against science, so I would ask them why they wore glasses, and drove cars and used microwaves. How can you use the product of evil and not BE evil. I have no idea if it took, but the real audience was my own kids as they went to church with these little monsters (The monster part is from them torturing and killing animals with their parents blessing, which ended any further visits once I found that out. One of my kids raised pedigree rats, and gave one to them, only to find out that they put it in a glass container, put it in the sun, and watched it die. Not the best thing to do if they wanted my kids to become Mormon [heavy sarcasm]).
Excellent! That's exactly the best way to handle this! Don't belittle them and make them shut down -- just help them to develop their thinking skills to find the flaw in that way of thinking themselves.
I agree with Andy, but also wow! It sounds like you stumbled on a nest of psychopaths, with the young in training.
@@Andrea.1tree yeah, that sounds like a rare and extreme case. but nonetheless, people like these often have the fitting bible verses / supernatural justifications for actions like these at hand ("i can let that little animal die painfully because i have dominion over it anyway" or whatever) which makes it harder for kids to question certain actions.
you already have to rely on your parents as a kid and if even the almighty authority above their parents "says" that certain things are okay or not and if not following them means nasty punishment, then oh boy...i really hope those kids came out of this with as little damage as possible.
@@Andrea.1tree Yes, and when my kids were making chalk drawings on my driveway with them, we were visited by a stray dog that was not being aggressive in any way, and this kid picks up a brick and proceeds to try to smash the dog. I stopped him (I was watching the kids while the parents ran an errand) and he responded by saying I had no right. I had to take the brick away and tell him that when his parents made me responsible for him it gave me authority to tell him to stop). I got a visit later from his mom. She did nothing but defend him but abuse like that is inexcusable. I have so many stories like that about others in that church too. I moved far away from that area.
@@asator0505 I think it’s not as rare as you might think. Not anymore. The more prolific home schooling has become, the more an isolated environment for abuse becomes common. Not to mention the maga mentality festering since 2016. If you’ve ever heard of a religion/cult called 7m, and understand how incorporated it is in our government. Including the SC, you might have some concerns. You have to dig deep for names, but you can google the religion.
Good question to ponder. One of my brother's kids approached me one day and asked "why don't you love God?" It was obvious this was because my brother had disclosed my atheism to his kids at some point. It was awkward and insulting and I said something like "I don't want to talk about this with you." Partially because on other occasions, I have been warned by family members not to share my views with their children. It's a bit of a mess but I just want peace. When they're old enough, I'll probably open up more, but it can really be a tightrope when you're trying not to get disowned.
I was born an atheist, but I let my oldest go to church with a friend and she seemed to like it for a while. I want my kids to make their own decisions just as I was allowed to do. Last night I made a comment about some politician being motivated by their beliefs in their particular version of God. My 12 year old daughter's response was "Sky Daddy?". I couldn't help but laugh, and feel a bit proud of her. I didn't know she had put any effort into discovering whether or not those other adults were telling the truth. Obviously she had.
You just put the biggest smile on my face.
I agree with letting kids make their own decisions, but like adults they need as much information as possible.
The difference between children and adults, children are reliant on adults, for the obvious reasons but also learning all the things in life. Unfortunately many children never get much exposure to cultures/religions/etc. outside of their parents’ or adult caretakers.
@@steveswangler6373 thankfully my daughter did some looking into various religions and already came to what I see as the appropriate conclusion. She's curious and seems to want to still research the topic. I like that and feel the more she looks into it, the more information she gets, the more she will come to the correct conclusion
Technically everyone is born an atheist, just a shame many aren't left that way.
I informed my young daughter that religous beliefs are ridiculous, and spent many years speaking to her on how abusive religion is. I even said: PLEASE do your best and not fall in love with a Christain man (I explained all the reasons behind that). She agreed.
She's now grown and a practicing Psychologist. She is living an extremely well to do life. Seems all my talks paid off as well (plus her Uni Lol).
I would NEVER let my kids go on a religous camp! As you never place your children in harms way.
I have 9yo daughter. I've talked to her like an adult since she started school. There was a couple times I felt bad ruining the "magic of childhood." But that is one of those things like "southern hospitality." It's nice on the surface, but it can be a real shock when someone turns the hospitality off. The longer the deception goes on, the worse shock is when the curtain is pulled. Tell kids the truth as soon as there's a good opportunity.
Thanks matt for a great vid!!! This best example that i have about the level of deceit that does happen to children, I found out that santa wasn't real at 8, I was in shock, how could the adults perpetuate this lie, so with this realization in hand i went to school to tell my 8 year old brethren about it at show and tell, in the morning you had to tell the teacher what you going to present at show and tell, the teacher saw what i had written and was shocked and with quick response said to go to the principal's office!!! i was stunned and little upset, and when you are 8 years old going to the principals office meant to me that i had done something wrong!!! So at the principals office, got called in, The principal asked why i had been sent there, i responded i found out that santa wasn't real and i wanted to tell the class. With a raised eyebrow she said you are not allowed to!!! i said ok may i go back to class, the response was yes, i didn't go back to class i went down to the back of school oval and sat pondering then i had realization, I just got into trouble for telling the truth... What other things have they been lying about!!!
Finding out my parents lied about Santa was traumatic for me and I realized I could no longer trust them. I went along with the Santa thing when my kids were little because they already knew about it, but when asked I told them it was just a story and they were smart for realizing that. I also told them to keep it to themselves though, because other adults wouldn’t like them to spread that info around.
That is an earthshaking revelation at such a young age. I always believed that people who perpetuate the story of Santa without informing their children of it’s fairytale aspects, run the risk of losing their children’s trust when they find out the truth.
Excellent Video.
I think telling a child “God is just something that parents made up in order to get kids to behave” is more likely to produce undesirable results because the parents and the vast majority of the child's in-group are likely to believe in God themselves. A better way to address the situation would probably be to ask questions that ultimately plant seeds of doubt regarding the child’s belief. Then show the child how they wouldn’t want to be judged the way he/she is judging gay people. I’d ask things like:
Have your parents ever told you something that is not true?
Questioning the existence of Santa Clause could be a great way to show the child that their parents don’t always tell the truth.
Do you know what gay is?
Do you know anyone that is gay?
How do you know you aren’t gay?
How would you feel if your friends accused you of being “of the Devil” because of _____ (some physical feature the child can’t control such as eye color, height, shape of nose or ears, etc.)?
I’d close by saying, I don’t believe that gay people are “of the Devil” and it’s wrong and hurtful to say such things.
Bad idea to bring up things like gay!
Need to talk about how their parents are going to hell for not killing those who work saturday as the bible commands!
From my experience, evangelicals believe Santa is a variation of Satan. I had to grow up without an Xmas tree even. Their focus is biblical based, and they spend a lot of time telling kids how “god gave his only son for your sins”. It’s a twisted method of indoctrination using guilt for being a sinner, and “god” had to kill his son to forgive those sins. Then comes the guilt. Smh. Imo it’s child abuse.
Some of those people are pedos. So yes it is evil God loves them and wants them to change
Another one of my daughter's reported that her Christian studies teacher said "...If you don't believe God is king then you should go to hell. Atheists deserve death..."
I'm torn on whether to make a formal complaint to the headmaster or not. Doing so would out my family and might make things more difficult for my kids. I have defaulted to not making a complaint and just talking with my kids about their classes afterwards. I hope this is the best long term approach
The problem is the Headmaster is probably of the same opinion, if their teachers think that's what they're supposed to teach.
Whenever I hear crap like this it reminds me how lucky I am that my kids are going to a school where these values of hate and fear are not being instilled through religious bigotry. In fact there is no religious element in their schooling at all.
I think it is fair that a child responds to a hateful comment with challenging retort.
Often the child doesn't really understand the depth of their parents' hate speak and usual say what they do in mimicry. Receiving an opposing view would add another perspective to their world. I think children are less defensive of indoctrinated ideas at an early age since the ideas are still seated in their 'play' thinking.
@@paulgemme6056 🤣 your either pulling a prank or have no idea . If you really wanted to, you could look into the research for yourself. I can give you a basic starter: changes in allele frequencies. There is so much more evidence than just this but its a basic starter.
@@paulgemme6056 wrong. You and I are evidence of life on earth, for which there is overwhelming evidence of evolution and zero evidence of a god called Yhwy having done anything at all other than be the creation of near-Eastern tribes.
@@mdug7224 I usually put a report to UT about commenters of pg's kind and alike, since they aren't out for a discussion but to win a dispute not matter how low or banally they have to go.
I agree that talking to kids respectfully is usually the way to go, for sure. As for telling kids their parents are wrong? That one is difficult. In this case, I think it's legit. I mean, what you say in the spur of the moment, may not be 100% accurate, in this example. But this kid is walking up to people to tell damaging things to others, which harms them and their interactions. The kid initiated. I think it's fine to plant a seed of doubt there.
Unfortunately in Australia, private schools, which generally provide better education quality compared to public schools, are religious. I often use their religious classes as a portal to conversations where I get them to think more about epistemology. One of my daughter's came home once day claiming that everything in the bible was true. After a few gentle questions I was able to get her to understand how difficult it is to support that claim and that not everything in books is necessarily true.
Yeh it's a real problem. Given the last census showed secularism is on the rise, I like to think that it's only a matter of time before secular private education becomes a thing.
@@BubbaF0wpend let's hope
Why private school? Why not campaign for more equitable funding for public schools and campaign against funding religious schools? The tax payer dollars are bankrolling religious education and as an Australian I am not happy with this.
@@PeterGregoryKelly good point, I 100% agree
@@PeterGregoryKelly that's true. But my activism is not going to make systemic change for my four kids before they leave school. So I just need to deal with the system as it is
Got to BRAINWASH them young before they can think otherwise religion has no future!
The world would be better of without religion and all of its fantasies.
Teach children how to think, not what to think.
Man that's a tough question. I think I would ask them questions to direct them to think about that idea. Something along the lines of: I thought god loves everyone or where did your parents learn that? Get them thinking and asking themselves and their parents questions. Then I would ask if they had any gay friends? Do you think they are bad? Could your parents be or have they ever been wrong or mistaken before? Sparking a child to think is invaluable and will go with them for their lifetime.
@Justin Gary
Grow up!
I tell kids that not everyone thinks that way. I let them know that there are other opinions that are different from their parents, and I tell them it’s okay to believe different things than their parents.
When I was a teenager, babysitting some kids, they told me some cockamamie story their mom told them about how babies were conceived, and then they told me a correct, kid version a classmate had told them. They asked me which was correct and I didn’t lie to them. I did include that maybe their mom thought they were too young to know what was the truth, but I couldn’t just lie to them or let them be confused about it. They were obviously in anguish about it. I never got to sit for those kids again but I wouldn’t change how I handled it.
Also, finding out my parents lied to me about Santa being real was a tremendous blow to me. That sounds really stupid, I know, but it’s true. I was devastated to find out the people I trusted the most had lied to me. Santa didn’t seem believable to me, but they insisted, so I trusted them, and then I found out they lied to my face. That’s how I learned to be skeptical. If you can’t trust your own parents, who can you trust. FYI I didn’t believe anyone when they said there was a god, either.
I love Matt's eyepatch arc
I’m not up to date, why does he need it?
@@diamondlife8086 He’s being treated for a lazy eye
@@diamondlife8086 He has been suffering from double vision due to a related health issue. The patch just alleviates that. He doesn't wear it all the time.
A few years back you said something along the lines "your children are not "yours", you are the steward of them, in charge of their wellbeing" (you mention it again in this video). It might sound silly, but this line removed the concept of property I had, to some extent, for my children and someone else's children. I used to just "feel wrong" about some parenting things; now I can I can put into words those feelings and draw a line between good and bad parenting (of course that line is still blurry in a lot of places, but I'll take every improvement I can find).
I think that we all need to be careful what we say to other people's children, because it is easy to effectively say "your parents are liars". My own approach has always been to use the "I don't believe that but some people do" on matters relating to faith, religion etc. Only once in my 70 years have I heard a child express explicitly racist ideas on that occasion I felt no hesitation in telling the child they were wrong, the child was old enough to understand right and wrong and not expressing my view would have, I felt, been an assent to their view.
I think that is a great approach. To tell the child that these are personal beliefs and that not everyone believes the same thing. I also don't agree with telling kids that their parents are liars. The parents are brainwashed also. Although I don't understand how anyone in this day and age, can possibly still believe in a god.
When I was a kid, I had to go to a catholic school 1st thru 3rd grade. So I was full of questions: "how did Jesus do this and that?" Of course their only answer was "it's all a miracle." I thought "phooey! That's not an answer." I was told to stop asking questions. When I eventually got to the public school, I said "Whew! Thank god."
Don't lie to kids about reality.
Using the word “honey” to a child or a loved one is perfectly fine. It shows love and affection.
Religion is the main reason that our country is so divided right now. If you raise children to believe (with all their heart) and center their life around, an invisible wizard in the sky, you reward a magical method of thinking. That can’t (or is very difficult) be compartmentalized. You are teaching them that, not only is it acceptable, it’s good to wholeheartedly believe things that have no supporting evidence or even good evidence to the contrary. No wonder 1/2 of the country believes that an election was stolen or that teachers are grooming children even though there is nothing that substantiates these claims. It’s so frustrating, conversing with someone who holds a belief that they can’t be reasoned out of. Unfortunately, this is the current state of affairs in America.
@God's Servant
That would explain theism.
@God's Servant
Stay 'special', little fella.
If the kid is out in the world, and coming up to strangers spewing hate and lies, it is reasonable to assume that the parents consent to this behavior. That consent presupposes that exposure to other ideologies is a distinct possibility for that child... On the off chance that the child has not yet been sufficiently immunized against critical thinking, then not only is it your right to set them straight, I would say it's a moral responsibility as a member of society to protect against harmful ideologies whenever possible, regardless of where the lies came from. At the very least, sowing the seeds of doubt in their minds should be priority one for any such encounter!
Here's my general thought on "Religion and Children":
Most of the major religions propagate themselves by preying upon vulnerable people (or perhaps more accurately, creating vulnerable people to prey upon), and what is more vulnerable than the mind of a child?
You can expect that child's parent(s) will be doing damage control soon after, almost certainly using the deceitful practices their religion uses. I think the seed planted in that child's mind will likely have the best chance of making them actually consider the validity of what they've been taught. It targets the root problem and will probably be more likely to become a persistent nagging question in their brain, which will increase the chance of them seeking out other sources of information.
@PutridCobra My grandmother did this for me by encouraging me to read other books and think for myself. "Always ask questions if you don't understand something." Saying "I don't know" is honest. " If it sounds like bullshit it probably is"!
"Dont talk to me like im a child"
What... with the respect and honesty that we all deserve?
This is a particularly good one! I would be happy to tell the kid that no one is right about everything and that I think they are wrong about that.
I was like 12 when I finally learned that santa isn't real, eye opening experience. At 15 I figured god isn't real either
It's mind blowing that Christians learn early on that Santa doesn't exist but easily accept for their whole life that this other "Santa baby", which is even more magical and unrealistic, is actually real. It's so on the nose but they can't figure out the similarity.
Is the Santa concept a weird and twisted way of preying on trust? Why would you implement something that ridicules Christianity into "new" Christianity? Is the way of thinking: "If all this Jesus stuff isn't real, at some point in my childhood my parents would have told me it's nonsense...... even if they lied to me before."
i believe i was around the same age. absolutely crazy the stuff i believed due to such indoctrination, even when my friends knew santa wasnt real at like 9 lol
great points. your perspective is great food for thought. thank you sir.
The best thing you can do for your children is tell them what you believe and why, then encourage them to learn about other religions, atheism, philosophy, epistemology and teach them critical thinking. Then let them make up their OWN minds.
Please don't leave! My critical mind has just been reawakened!!
I really enjoy these videos. This one was especially well stated. I have to agree with Matt here. I have 3 kids and they grew up to be free thinkers. I was always upfront and honest with them when they asked me questions about religion or any general issue. But whilst giving my opinion I also let them know that I am present for them as a guide and that I will respect whichever path they choose so long as that path is not bringing harm upon their self or others. Life has many grey areas but there are also several issues that are right or wrong. We owe it to ourselves to right clear wrongs within our community for the betterment of everyone and to clear up misinformation some of these kids are getting at home. Saying "gay people are of the devil" in itself is a relatively benign phrase but that kind of poisonous thinking can lead to future harmful behaviors. As fellow humans we must correct this kind of thinking because of the potential end result of this mindset.
I've been telling kids their parents were full of shit since I was a kid myself.
I think the ground rules are if someone else's kid asks you a question, you can answer as honestly as possible. But proselytizing to someone else's kid is off limits. (Sunday school is some brainwashing bs)
We sent our son to a Catholic lower school. He attended from what in Australia is called Pre Pre School i.e., he started when he was 5 years old and left when he was 12 years old. Myself and my now ex-wife were both Atheists, but the public school was a bit of a jungle, and we thought that at least the Catholic school would teach better values, which I believe was the case. We were able to enroll him as the school has just started and they were prepared to enroll any kids, regardless of the parents' faith. They just wanted bums on seats for the first few years.
The first "problem" was when our son came home and asked why we hadn't told him about God and Jesus as earlier that day he'd been to church as part of the religious teaching of the school. It turned out when the priest had asked who in the class of about 30 or so little kids, knew about God and Jesus. Our son said that everyone in the class had put their hand up except him.
After a couple of years of going to church during classes, my son asked me (by that time the now ex-wife had walked out on us) if I believed in God and Jesus. I tried to be a little diplomatic by saying that I didn't, but it was up to him to make up his own mind. My son who was at that stage around 7 years old said to me that he found the whole thing, in his words, a load of crap and unbelievable. He said that is he'd been told about it as a small child he might have initially believed it but later on he would have thought about it as just another story parents told little kids. He said that he would go along with it when at school because it was what they were supposed to do.
He also said some of his school friends whose parents were also not religious had come to the same conclusion.
I try to be as honest with kids as possible, and that includes telling them that bigots aren't the kind of friends most people want to have. I explained to one of my son's friends that not liking someone because of their skin color or religion told me he was judging them for unimportant things. He insisted he couldn't be friends with a certain boy "of color" and I asked him to tell me why.
With every sentence I could hear his parents talking -- he'd memorized their reasons without thinking about what the words really meant. We talked for about 10 minutes and I'd like to believe he started to question some of the values he'd been taught.
This is such a compelling discussion. I think the truth matters. Even if it's someone else's child, we could help the child to re-examine the hateful belief but asking questions and allow them to make up their own mind. Usually it's very easy to belief a thing until it is challenged, and doubt is a necessary component in the journey to finding truth.
If there was no childhood indoctrination into religion, then where would believers come from?? 😉
The children in my family chose atheism themselves. We are Buddhists and we consider it natural (we do not try to persuade them to do anything)
My friend is raising his children to be Christians - I always tell them that you don't have to believe. I provide them with books about how the sects manipulate. During conversations, I expose the stupidity and hypocrisy of Christianity. I say that this is my point of view and that they are entitled to their own.
@God's Servant BIBLE QUOTES! Here are some of mine.
It's been a long time, a nearly unimaginable amount of time, in which we have been forced to cling to the shadows of history. During that time, we have been ostracized and endured cruelty beyond that of any civilization in history...but we have persevered, and that is all behind us. The time for the Bount to finally be released from the darkness is finally approaching." Jin Kariya, Bleach anime; Episode 74
"Listen well! Be gone from here! I don't have time nor the patience to teach a mere infant like you how to breathe." Genryusai Shigekuni Yamamoto, Bleach manga; Chapter 155, page 6
@God's Servant What does that have to do with the price of fish?
@God's Servant I always find it funny that you people think that in 2022 people don’t believe because they lack access to your book. Which is available for free all over the internet.
@God's Servant Nice to see you are following the bible by admitting you are a slave. Shameful
@God's Servant and people say xtians arent creative.
The best study of religion, totally agree that after an apocalypse, some science would be rediscovered, but new religions would be completely different. There's a lesson here.
Maybe religions would be the same but under different names because religious dogma contains concepts that fulfill the psychological needs of societies.
My first reaction was to the comment was to laugh heartily.
I liked your teaching of racism metaphor. Frankly, I just don't interact with other people's kids very often so it doesn't come up. However, I like to think I treat both situations similarly. I quickly show my scorn and make it clear that I don't stan bs.
Heya Matt-Tastic. Looking forward to seeing why Ya left the ACA. You are still a member though You won't be on the shows, yes? I'm a member BTW.
As someone who talked queer kids of religious parents out of suicide in online therpy platforms, and as someone who constantly had to make it clear to kids I gave private lessons to that they were actually a lot smarter than their parents -- I would go to great lengths to protect and nourish the mind of a child. I would do it in a healthy, sustainable, respectful way, though -- adapted to thw situation.
Santa Claus , the Tooth Fairy and Baby Jesus in the Nativity are things children grow out of when they reach a certain age.
The problem is when adults still believe in any of these things ......
Lol. This vid had an ad in the middle from WORD OF LIFE church. 😂
As a man with two adult children I believe it is always best to tell kids and adults to think for themselves. Now when my kids asked if i believed in a god i did not lie. I simply told them i personally do not believe but billions of people do. So, if you have questions or you are curious about god or a specific religion go look into it yourself. Both of my adult sons are non-believers!
I think we should have more (for lack of a better term) faith in young people. Just because children are raised a certain way that doesn't mean they're forever trapped in those ways. There are plenty of things my parents taught me that I completely reject (including religion). For that reason, I would say that encouraging children to think critically and giving them the tools to reach more reliable conclusions is the best route.
My kids have grown up free from being indoctrinated in any religion or any god beliefs. We have studied many religions and I think they understood that all of those different religions can’t all have the same god/s and that what religion you are was mainly what your parents are or what part of the world you were born. It’s is so incredible when little kids can spot issues in religious teachings. My kids have always cared about being fair and being equal and they can find discrepancies in religious texts quickly.
When I was six or seven years old, the younger sister of one of my friends told me her uncle had died and gone to heaven. I replied he wasn’t, he was buried in a cemetery.
If you want to raise a child to be an adult, treat them more like an adult.
From what I've seen, religion and children do not mix, and highly recommend avoiding it.
Oh but
God loves the little children.
They're so much easier
to brainwash.
Teach your children atheism - this universe, our world annd their lives are a meaningless, purposeless, temporary chemical accident of no real significance. Teach them that it it all ends in annihilation - no matter how they live their lives. Nothing really matters. It all ends in a rotting dirt-bath and annihilation. Teach them atheism. Teach children they have no free-willed soul to choose freely or morally. Let them know that all actions are 100% chemically determined and not freely chosen. Thus, they have no real choice about rape or theft or murder. These are just chemically determined outcomes that nobody chooses. There is no free-will or souls choosing, just chemicals causing whatever the chemicals cause to happen. Teach them atheism. Teach your children that morality is a figment of human imagination, another false chemical delusion about things not true in reality. In objective reality there are no objective moral duties and nothing to be right or wrong about. Any 'morality' is just a delusional byproduct of chemical evolution that can be discarded at convenience. Teach them atheism. What could go wrong?
I babysit for a family pretty often, and the kids will sometimes ask me why god does something or they’ll tell me a “fact” about god. I never know exactly why to say, but usually I brush it off or say I don’t know. I think their parents are good people and are just the kind that go to church out of tradition. But I do sometimes question wether it’s appropriate to say what I really believe in those circumstances.
You have options in your response. You can play in their sandbox or attempt to be more grounded in reality. You can try to be educational or you can entertain yourself with giving them a crazier concept.
The first concern is do you say anything. IMO- If the child is free to say something to you, then you are free to say something to them. You should keep it clean. If don't want people cussing your kid, then you shouldn't cuss their kid.
You could just say, "You are wrong. The devil can't make people... gay, straight, or otherwise."
This kind of brainwashing sticks with kids, all the way until they are 90 years old. I drive a semi-truck in the mountains of Colorado at night. Last week, I hit a bull elk and killed it. When I got to the store I was to deliver to in a mountain town, an older, 70 year old shelf stocker came up to me and said, "The Lord told me to tell you that Psalm 91 will protect you when your drive at night." I just looked at him stunned, and then I walked away. The reality of this situation is that the man didn't care about what I went through with that bull elk, instead, he just saw it as his opportunity to proselytize. He probably learned these methods as a child in Good New Club.
My thought on what should be done in this situation, you don't have to tell the kid they or their parents are wrong. That might make them dig their heals in deeper and become more entrenched in their nonsense. Just tell them kindly but emphatically that you don't agree with that and you can say why. Also ask them why they believe that, how they know. They probably have no good reason. My experience growing up is just knowing that there are people who have different points of view can be powerful when it comes to questioning what you've been told l. Also, when you can't give a reason for your belief, that also can make people doubt.
If a kid is going to preach bullshit to other kids, then those other kids, or their parents have every right to call out that kid's bullshit.
I won't lie to children and I think I have the right to save the children of others from abuse and no parent has the right to abuse their children.
Kjb 1611-I was raised on this ideology. Enjoyed the Video !
I think my only disagreement is the idea that, essentially, the ends justify the means, and that you can do things that otherwise may not be permissible because it's "right". Ypu are not the arbitrator of what is right in the world, only for yourself. (I agree with you here, just the line of thinking that I find worrying.)
Well the story you mentioned is honestly why I’ve always believed children shouldn’t be allowed or forced to participate in religion until they have reached the age of maturity in their country/state etc. If all kids are exposed to is religious bigotry until they reach adulthood and enter “the real world”, they are not well adjusted to environments that don’t share their worldview. Just look at what’s happening in the US, conservatives are trying to make a secular nation adopt laws based on “Christian morality”.
Honestly the only way to combat this is to encourage critical thinking in secular environments aka the public school system
Thank you dear Matt.
Just a bit of powder would make your head look nicer, sitting so close to that green screen 💜
If the child initiates the conversation, especially if they start off telling you what is true and not, then I see no problem in telling them the truth.
I would tell kids to ask questions all the time and when a parent responds back to them, ask them how sure are they?
I was sent to Sunday school. Read the Bible cover to cover. Figured out religion was a bunch of nonsense a little after I figured out Santa had assistants on his payroll in my house.
I love this guy and I’m no atheist, I got so much respect for him love listening to his videos, his viewers however, at a glance always seem spiteful. 🤷🏻♂️
To the best of my recollection (which may not be very good), when I was young (late teens and early twenties), I thought god and Santa were basically the same. Not that Santa was a god, but that people said they were real for cultural and traditional reasons, and that no one really believed in them. When, in the navy, I first encountered a true believer, I was shocked.
Love the Bill Hicks reference.
Though I understand and agree with most of what you said, I feel that it's a bit more complicated than that.
Following your analogy, imagine if there were no garden that belongs to anybody in particular, but one massive communal garden instead.
In this arrangement, it's impossible for any one person to take care of all that grows everywhere or for everyone to agree on what to grow where so there's a certain unspoken social contract about who takes care of what and how.
Given this situation, if some person randomly came in and planted some stuff you don't like in the area you usually take care of, on what grounds would you argue that they are in the wrong?
Now, one may say this is an inappropriate analogy because one's mind is 100% their own, but that's just not true. Our thoughts and ideas are mostly a result of our environment. Nobody wakes up one day and suddenly decides that roses are ugly and nettle is a great addition to the garden, that idea came from somewhere else. In terms of contents, your mind belongs to the people that surround you as much as it belongs to you.
The next problem I have is, on what grounds do we decide where to draw the line? When is a weed so toxic that it simply has to go out, no matter what? Because sure, there are some obvious answers, but there are many ambiguous ones too. How do you know that you're actually taking out some dangerous plant and not one that just gave you the runs a couple of times but has other beneficial properties?
These kind of questions I struggle with all the time.
My answer to your question is generally YES. For the average multi generational family in North America: The difference between Santa Clause and God is that children raised to believe in Santa are not expected to still believe in Santa at around age 8, yet the belief in god is still perpetuated AFTER the age of 8. You don't need to be a parent to know that: I'm 52 and never had kids, (at least not yet. LOL).
All one needs is a memory of being the age where those things were learned, and unfortunately most people don't remember being younger than about 14, ( I know I'm exaggerating but people seem to be proud of not having memories of childhood as thought that helps their argument) which makes them feel as though 13 year olds are babies when they can actually already have children of their own at that age (although I wouldn't advise doing so at such a young age).
Unfortunately People too dumb to remember being a kid are dictating how the world ought to be for both kids and adults. I'm happy to be any part of whatever curtails that. I don't usually watch your "atheist debates" series, but this time I did, because it hit a nerve with me; (even though I'm not gay).
To summarize: I think it's ok to call out a kid who gets into anyone's face to proudly state that gay people are "of the devil". Those kids brought it into the public, so it's the public's responsibility to respond to that brainwashed kid who's now trying to brainwash anyone else that'll listen, especially since nobody taught this kid that children are seen but are not heard (except for preaching hateful christian fundamentalist bigotry of course.) Keep calling out bigotry ESPECIALLY in kids. Nip it in the bud. Thanks for posting, Matt!
i would tell them that all opinions and views on any subject/matter are of people and there are many different opinions among people and that includes what they are taught by their parents.
I grew up in a Catholic family and was sent to a Catholic elementary school. I never believed that there was a god. None of what they said made any sense to me, even as a child. I would sit there thinking, how can all of these people believe that ridiculous stories these priests are pushing. I always felt that how can this loving god let all of these bad things happen. Why would anyone worship a god like that? One that lets men beat their wives, or let children get sick and die. A god that created every single thing, according to them, but also made us get cancer? How can people overlook that?
Plus, he made life in so many variations (according to them), yet he's a total retard when it comes to genetics. 🤣 (Noah's story)
Forgot the Adam and Eve story. 🤣
I wouldn't have used that exact response since it's also untrue. I'd probably say something more like, "There's no evidence for god or the devil."
I try not to get too involved in discussions of religion with other people's kids. I won't shy away from it if it happens, (calling into your show for example, all bets are off,) but any "meddling" I've done has been more about clarifying what *I* believe and not so much in criticism of anything they are being taught. In the end, it's kind of a roundabout way of the same thing, just not quite so blatant. I wouldn't have told a little kid what they did, who ran up and proudly proclaimed such a thing to me in a playground. However, I would have said something. Probably along the line of "I don't believe in devils and you should probably get back to your parents."
My neighbor has dogs and one of them is a puppy that kept jumping the fence. He's made efforts to make the fence larger but the dog keeps getting out. I can tell he doesn't care much for them and only keeps them for his kids. I don't get angry when the dog gets out, just concerned because it like to chase cats into the street. One day I met the dog when I got out of my car so I walked him over and range there door bell. A kid answered and I stayed here you go, the dog ran in and the kid said thanks and slammed the door. Understandable, especially if he's home alone. No more than 10 min later, their dogs on my porch. I walk him back over again. Another kid about the same age answers the door this time along with the last kid behind him. They definitely were alone. Before they closed the door, I said if you let him out side just watch him. Now, I have a very monotone voice and I rushed that sentence out. When their dad arrived home he was furious. Their doorbell is also a camera and he heard me talk to his kids. He came over to tell me, as he was shaking with rage, that I will not speak to children in such an egressive manner. I said one sentence in the tone that speak with literally every person and I got lit up by this guy. I've been around kids my entire life, I get along with kids very well. I just have this blah voice that makes public speaking very difficult which is why i try to speak clear and concisely. I shouldn't have said anything. No matter what I said he would have blown up because he wasn't there to begin with to protect his kids so I understand his paranoia. Sometimes, no matter your interaction, parents may seek confrontation. Extreme caution should be taken when interacting with anyone else's kids even if you think you are being nice, the parents may already be set on tearing your head off.
My grammar's also garbage.
Somehow youve blurred over what it was that he was upset about. Or what he may have possibly been upset about .
People aren't normally livid about getting their dog returned and being told to watch their own dog better. ???
In an effect to strike at the root, I'd probably say something like "it's okay to doubt your parents, your teachers, your pastor, and everyone else who tells you what to think. You can pick and choose what you believe, and the sooner you start, the more of YOU and the less of anyone else is in your beliefs. But you shouldn't talk to strangers, and I'm a stranger, so buzz off."
Take A Moment
Hi Matt
Keep doing what you do, evolution is all around us.
Stay Safe
Stay Honest
Stay Free 🌐
When my classmate told me that ‘Sinterklaas’ (The Dutch version of Santa Claus (who introduced it in the USA)) didn’t exist at the age of around 8, this started my path to a non believer. One year later I didn’t believe in Jehova anymore and refused to sing along with the songs in church. Especially the genocidal songs like ‘the walls of Jericho’.
So I thank Sinterklaas for the start of my critical thinking skills. Once my nephew at the same age asked about Sinterklaas, I asked him if he wanted to know the truth. He did, so I told him. However he remained a sort of believer for another year. He liked to believe because it is such a fun celebration. I loved SInterklaas and still do.
I don’t mind ‘lying’ this way, because it has positive intentions. Like your surprise party example.
Do you recall that " suprise party" short story where they pretended to arrest a dude to take him to his surprise party and he died of a heart attack as the lift opened?
If the child is mature enough to ask the questions, they should have an answer straight forward enough to get them thinking. At the very least. Point them in the direction of a good book to help that thinking progress. It matters what their age is. I agree with the conversation starter “this is what I believe”. Promoting the idea that there are different opinions besides their parents can be a huge crack in the wall of indoctrination. The world of the evangelical child is governed by a myriad of rules promoting fear of everyone, and everything. If they have progressed far enough that they have questions, and are willing to ask an outsider, that is a veritable cry for help. Please answer it, or point the way to someone who can.
As a parent, my first reaction was LOLs!
But after thinking about it, I now believe that 's' should be a 'z.'
I agree (5:50); I strongly encourage taking to kids in a normal, adult manner.
I've found, in addition to the long bit below, that when we speak "baby-talk" to children, it can condition us to condescend to small people. Even though I do my best to speak normally and without condescending to or patronizing everyone, I still catch myself clutching bad concepts. When I'm talking to, say, a grown woman who is also particularly petite, or a fella of diminutive stature, I will notice myself unconsciously giving less weight to his or her opinions and ideas... just like one would with a child. I default to that, and it's difficult to learn not to.
I think it's a bad idea to talk down to anyone, for many reasons (see below, again), not least because we train ourselves to talk down to anyone else who resembles the people we've decided to condescend to. Any small adult can tell you a dozens of times when they experienced condescending or patronizing behavior from other adults.
Not only will they cherish the unusual and highly enjoyable feeling of being treated like they're not "just a kid," as Matt mentioned - people (and dogs too, thanks to their interations with us), to a high degree, conform to the roles we give them. Treat people like animals, and most of them are going to act that way in return, sooner or later.
Most children love being treated more like a fellow adult. Trust them with a little unexpected respect, trust, and responsibility, and you're likely to find them so grateful and so happy that they will work to earn and deserve the trust you've extended, not least because they understand the rewards inherent in treating the given responsibility like a respectful adult. If they don't cut themselves, don't mess around with or damage them, areturn the scissors with a "thank you," , it's more likely to be repeated than if they run around threatening other kids with them, spend hours outside cutting up the flower patch, and leave 'em on the floor covered in mud.
Same. When I was 10 or 11 my family spent a few days of vacation with another family, the mother being one of my mother's old school friends.
Her husband was the first adult I can recall talking to me like I was just another adult, and as I recall we had some great chats.
I determined then that when I was an adult I'd always talk to children, no matter how old, as equals. They're younger and have less life experience, but that doesn't make them lesser beings or second class citizens or stupid.
On the whole, I agree with Matt and his careful, thoughtful concern for kids. He has the makings of a good parent. And teaching kids that anybody is going to hell, is despicable. And in my theology, also despicable. I'm certain there is no hell, that it is purely a human construct for the purposes of controlling others, in particular people who behave badly. I understand that some form of control may be necessary to weed out bad behaviors, I just don't think "hell" is the way to do it. To me, it has human vengeance written all over it.
Having grown up a Christian (Congregationalist), I find it particularly troubling for any so-called Christian to be bigoted, as the man they think they're following, did not have a bigoted bone in his body. He treated all people with respect, in particular the downtrodden. He said: "whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, you do also unto me." For followers of his to be so hateful, means they hurt themselves, their kids, their community, their master, and their religion, making it unpalatable to strangers. One could even make the argument that they have allowed themselves to be seduces by the devil, for it is the devil who benefits the most from people grossly misrepresenting Jesus to others.
It's just a thought. Have a nice day.
U need a podcast brother dillahunty
He has a podcast "The Atheist Experience"
I think the best course of action when dealing with someone else's children and religion, is to only answer direct questions from them. If they ask you if you believe in God, you tell them the truth. If they ask why, then you give them your reasons. You're doing nothing wrong by telling them the truth as to what you believe. It's probably safe to tell them why you personally don't believe, rather than telling them why they shouldn't believe or why their reasons are inadequate to warrant belief. What you shouldn't do is to volunteer your opinions and beliefs, even though the child never asked you any direct questions.
Everett Washington here
☠️ Ayo Pirate Matt. aino way...
One more quick comment……I keep reptiles. I also live in south Florida and have connections with lots of keepers/breeders. I’m happy to assist you if you’d like.
As a parent, I would tell that child the truth as I understand it. If someone is going to train their child to walk up to random people and "preach" to them, then those parents need to accept that honest people will push back.
I work with kids from 4-16 as a martial arts instructor, and the santa thing comes up every year or two. If any child raises the subject in a public class, I usually shut it down in public then speak to them in private. I ask them what they think, then don't contradict that, and suggest that if they have more questions, they talk to their parents. If they talk about God, I'd outright say in public that I don't have the same beliefs as them, but they should speak to their parents. There is a tangible cost in not sharing the God belief of their family.
If they started spouting bigotry justified as theism, I would DEFINITELY disavow their beliefs there and then.
I have no problem telling people, young or old, when they are wrong.
Mommy, who’s the creepy guy talking about G-d all the time…
I read that exact anecdote 2 days ago, EXCEPT, it was the other person's KID who said "god is something parents made up yadda". Not the parent.
Which makes me think this isn't a real story.
Probably isn’t. But things like it have probably happened in real life many times, so it’s an interesting discussion starter
I don’t see any reason to think this is not a real story. Indoctrination at an early age will teach kids to say things like this, even if it is just mimicry.