I haven't heard this title in years...Seriously, one of the best games I've ever played. The story is fantastic, and Alice is such a well-written character. She's mentally ill, has trauma, selfish, smug, and sarcastic, but she's also intelligent, empathetic, righteous, caring, and truly good underneath all the walls and hard edges she puts up. And I love how her mental illness and trauma were not romanticized. They were treated something she has to live and deal with, and she dealt with them like how a person with obligations and other daily responsibilities would deal with them. I really hope American McGee continues more with Alice, whether that's a prequel, sequel, inter-quel, whatever. I don't want her story to be over yet.
Well, you're in luck. American McGee just so happens to be making a prequel called Alice: Asylum. It's going to cover what happened shortly after the fire and her going through and processing the different stages of grief. It'll be fun.
I hope that they also do an alternate ending in the restored version of the game where she does merge with her wonderland self, but she actually had backup in the form of the family attorney and Nan Sharpe. Then the authorities come and arrest him. To me, I think him getting hit by a train, he got off way too easy.
If I could elaborate on a few more things, specifically what certain characters symbolise -- this is what happen when I obsess over a game for 10 years! -Dr. Bumby killed the White Rabbit early on, as he was a direct link to Alice's memories and higher senses. -The Cheshire Cat is likely Alice's conscience or inner voice, telling her what to do and info she must hear. -The Jabberwock personified Alice's guilt. His bones appear because she overcame her guilt in the first game. -The Mad Hatter is Alice's self-preservation, taken apart by his former friends to allow the Infernal Train to be built. The Hatter blames Alice for ignoring/forgetting what she sensed about Bumby's actions ("Forgetting is forgetting, then they call it something else.") -The March Hare and Dormouse personify the parts of Alice's mind that wished to forget the past, but also the cruelty of the Industrial Revolution. -The Mock Turtle not only personifies Alice's grief and depression, but also may have been a key part of her mental defences, removed from his position as the conductor of Looking Glass Line, a necessary move to let Dr. Bumby insert the train into Alice's psyche. -The Carpenter is Alice's own ignorance, sending her on a wild goose chase to hide the truth from her. The Walrus likely personifies how Alice sees sexual predators and clientele for prostitutes. -The theatre's contributors (drunk octopus, bottle-shaped music fish, oyster girls) represent alcoholism and prostitution. -The Caterpillar is Alice's high senses, inner wisdom, logic, and reason. -The White King's insistence on sacrifice symbolises Alice's need to sacrifice her own focus on her own pain to save the children. -The Tweedles are based on two orderlies who abused Alice in the asylum. -The little girl who leads the Insane Children is the part of Alice's mind that knew the truth, but the Dollmaker later rips her eyes out to stop Alice from gaining "clear sight" of things.
This is one of the best character analysis I’ve ever read for this game! You did an awesome job on this and thanks for sharing it! I would never have made these great connections! 👍🏻
When the kid said “Don’t desert us…again” It hurt because Alice is the only one who has not been brainwashed by the doctor to forget…But whilst she is gone the doctor resumes his Horrible acts upon all the kids…
“You’ve used me and abused me, but you will not destroy me.”- Alice Liddel. such a powerful line there, I (whose also suffers from a mental illness) find this incredibly empowering because for me, just because I suffer mentally and ppl label me as useless and dare I say crazy, it doesn’t mean that I’m a threat to society or dangerous, I had gotten to the point where I just felt bad for not being like anybody else who was “normal” when I was younger
@@annieee7140 it was towards the end of the game. When Alice finally puts the pieces together on what REALLY HAPPENED when the house caught fire and her family dying in the process and confronts bumby whose trying to escape by train
This show has so many powerful moments ❤ this was certainly one of the most memorable parts. I also found Fran Bow quite memorable. These types of symbolic games with in depth stories are so underrated ❤
I hope you're doing well! I hesitate to give advice since I'm not very normal too, but if we help the world in atleast some small ways then it's a life that's good and worth living. Normal people are often surrounded by sharks themselves so they need to mask, but as they get older life usually gets better and more free when we put less weight on pleasing strangers expectations. Life's not about being yourself, it's about being the best version of yourself!
@@pharaohsmagician8329 hello! I’m doing better for over three years now :) been doing therapy and psychotherapy and it’s been great so far much work is needed but I’m in a much better head space mentally and physically. And I absolutely agree with everything you have said. Very well written 🤍🤍🤍
The adults who were supposed to help Alice had abandoned her, exploited her or told her to leave her wonderland but it was imagination and wonderland that saved her. She really did save herself
She faced her demons and her tragic memories. It was painful, but it was all worth it to regain her mind and average her family. Not many people could do that.
No, it wouldn't have happened if she wasn't in 17th century Europe. Edit: first you all correct me saying it's 17th century, now you all say 19th century! Pick a f*cking lane!
@@miablairy1920 I agree, If that crazy therapist had not oh idk BURNED THE HOUSE WITH ALICE’S FAMILY AND KILLED THEM, the story would truly be much much different. But if you think about it in a way if it wasn’t Alice....... someone ELSE would have been the victim to the therapist’s madness.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 he is, it's Dinah. If you ever read the book it's very clear Dinah and the Cheshire Cat are one in the same. She says in the book : if only you could talk what a wonderful world it would be.
@@kytiladdy the Cheshire cat speaks in riddles, it wouldn't be very interesting if he just spoon fed her everything, now would it? And in the book Alice always said she just loved riddles. (at least the Cheshire cat didn't just vanish in thin air like Navi, Links guide in OoT) what a painful game Oot was for me, watching all his loved ones disappear after saving all of them and Hyrule 😔
This game is horrendously underrated. The level design and how the story is presented to the player is one of the best I've ever seen. I wish both games got remastered, they deserve it.
@@aleisinwndrlen7113 I hope EA will remaster the games, while I never got the chance to play the original I absolutely adore the second one. I hope the creator will be able to convince EA to make another Alice game, but as you said, that's up to EA.
@@BrightWulph There's a steam thread some time ago which gives a link for a cracked version of the first game. However, I think you ought to have Madness Returns installed first to have it, as you'll play it directly from an option on the main menu, not a separate application
I love the overall message. People who struggle with mental health and trauma may not function “normally” (how they would act if they did not experience these things) again but can still heal and have control over their future. We are not defined by what we’ve experienced only what we make out of it. I love this game the symbolism and meaning behind everything is so thoughtful.
Brilliant, you said it beautifully. Young minds turn to noble ambitions, no matter what troubles you're facing you must carry on and keep the torch lit for other people to find there way out of the same dark. Where is the distance in the dark?
@@IzzyakaSpookyGurlQueenal-lh3dh If you are a friend of the Lorelei I can see while Google searching, I hope that you are kinder to yourself in the future. Stay strong.
I am in the process of healing and this comment touch me to the core. Navigating myself throughout adolescence was not easy(and my parents didn’t know about it) and even though is wasn’t perfect, I’m still thankful. Getting up and combating while being understanding to people around me is hard to balance as a person that is entering adulthood. At the end of the day, I knew myself so much(without disregarding the my parents even though they have significant contribution with my upbringing, at least I can do decision).
@@youcantbeatk7006He is symbolic for predators in real life! unalive predators is greatest justice especially when no want to believe you! You are a boy who doesn’t know anything about being SA or experience anything as traumatic as that
At 19:48 I think it was hinted in the first game that Tweedle Dee and Tweedle dum were real nurses who treated Alice when she was in the asylum through some of their dialogues. I remember them mocking Alice a lot before she fought them.
@@cherrydragon3120 Yeah, but there are people who, for whatever reason, tiptoe around the subject, even if it's an explanation video. But it's important to say it straight up because it emphasizes how truly obscene it is, and also because it's literally a big part of the game.
I believe the reason why Alice survived was, despite the suffering she endured in the asylum, was so that she could have a chance to avenge her family and overthrow Dr. Bumby for all the misery he had caused.
Anita Sarkeesian: There are not enough strong, female lead characters in video games. Alice: Really? Hold my Ritalin Anita, and let me show you what MY mind sees.
@@deathstrike Wow, all these years and you've still never actually taken the time to engage with her as anything more than a 2D cut-out, huh? And understood that the entire media landscape is more than just one game which did well ten years ago? That "more" doesn't mean there weren't any in the first place? And that it is critical thought and people who take it to heart that makes it so characters like Alice are /more abundant/? Which I'm pretty sure we'd both agree is a good thing?
@@EL-jq1sq Wow all these years and you haven't heard of anything called a joke? Why would anyone assume because I made a joke that there is more to in that? Damn don't people laugh anymore? Does everything have to be so serious or laid out? SMH
@@deathstrike I do apologise for being so curt to a stranger, but let me explain myself. Firstly, jokes obvoiusly often have kernels of truth hence the saying "it's funny cause it's true" and their use in "speaking truth to power". Secondly, think of who is the butt of the joke in your joke, and whom you're making seem ridiculous. Jokes are a form of communication, what is your joke communicating? Nothing is ever just anything, and jokes perpetuate a narrative which shows a peek into the teller's mindset. Especially when I saw these exact jokes in the thick of the backlash towards Sarkeesian. If I saw someone making a joke where the butt of the joke is against someone, and the crux of it is an implicit criticism, why wouldn't I assume that it held insight? Also, sometimes a joke is just bad.
Something fascinating about the game is how the "infection" works its way like a violent industrialization of Wonderland. By erasing memories and making the children blank, its like he turned the organic part of their mind mechanical, just like the corruption is represented by an oil-like sludge that burns bright and is carried by a massive train, how the Hatter's workshop became an imposing factory and how the very last level, the "attic" of the dollhouse, looks like a sweatshop where Bumby turns children into "dolls". Also, the soundtrack of this game is SUBLIME! My first time playing it I actualy stopped at the menu because the song got me so enthralled I forgot what I was doing xD
Also, it makes sense when you realise that the game is set in London, which was the heart of the Industrial Revolution back in the 1800s. I love it whenever games and stories are able to link themes like this, it hits that part of the brain that makes me happy.
It should be mentioned that currently, the creator of the Alice video games is trying to create a prequel game that would reflect Wonderland's increasing deterioration after the fire, while Alice explored the five stages of Grief. I hope that becomes a reality
Madness returns to me is like, the only story that takes the "Alice in wonderland but EDGY and Alice does drugs and has mental problems" concept and uses it well. It is a story about a young woman with psychosis escaping the abuse of those who should have been her caretakers but instead hurt her, and she also makes sure that the other children won't suffer anymore. It also subverts a lot of tropes is horror around mental illness I've always found to be harmful. Very good game with an amazing story I adore
@@TheBlueLink3 ust search for "romanticizing mental illness" on youtube and you will find millions of videos complaining about this issue, mostly are teenagers who romanticize these things because they think it is "uwu quirky! rawr XD"
@@skyxclouds3765 I don’t think it’s teenagers that are the issue, a lot of media that is aimed towards them while they’re going through mental health problems ARE the issue though such as: Skins, 13RW and euphoria tend to romanticise mental illness as either something romantic, dramatic or something that can make you stronger. For a lot of teens this is the only rep they have and it’s easy to see why they end up viewing mental illness that way. Not every teenager is faking mental illness to seem “qUiRky” sadly it is quite common nowadays esp with the rise of social media and how easy it is for teens to be taken advantage of. Although agreed that there’s been a weird rise in people thinking DID is a cute??? Relationship goal??? Very odd, especially on tiktok.
I never realized that Madness Returns was a sequel. It definitely makes sense but that game does such a good job of keeping you up to speed and telling the story that as long as you have basic knowledge of Alice in Wonderland you can make the connection easily.
@@Bejd539 First game was about Alice's mental struggle during her time in the Asylum. Madness Returns takes place a year after the ending of the first game.
I think the reason the vale of tears is initially beautiful is that it's her outermost layer of her mind. The small part of herself that's managed to heal somewhat and can put forward a lovely face to the outside world. It's even called the Veil of Tears because it represents the healthy grieving she's done and how it's allowed her to heal a little bit with the dead Jabberwock as one demon slain, but sadly there are many more to go.
It also seems to be the only part of Wonderland that she’s entirely invented herself, that isn’t based on some part of the real world. From thereon every level can be traced back to something in reality (the docks representing the Deluded Depths, the prison cells becoming Queensland, Bumby’s house becoming the Dollhouse, and so on.) It’s the only place that’s just hers, that she can go to for respite.
Also, if any of you didn't notice; there are different astrological symbols on each of the pocket dresses she wore. Each of them shows the meaning of the themes with each own current stages like Misstitched dress with Mars (♂) Ruler of lust; represents the Dollmaker. The other symbol is Ceres which is the Roman goddess and ruler of the harvest (harvesting children for lustful purposes), during her time at the Dollhouse, near the end. If want to know, there's the wiki that shows each meaning for each dresses. The deeper meaning of significant details that had given were pretty much understated, so props to McGee. Like damn.
Funny it would have been cool seeing American McGee make a game based on Coraline they based more so on the novel rather than the film especially if he actually got the original author Neil Gaiman to help much like he did when he helped Henry Selick with the movie adaption
SAme!! Alice Madness Returns was the first art book I purchased and I fell in love I recommend checking out the game Pocket Mirror because it has a similar Alice in wonderland horror feel
theres a text post on tumblr thats like "i dont know why anybody bothers with the edgy alice in wonderland trope, american mcgee's alice & alice madness returns did it first & completely nailed it first try"
The original sequel to the original game took 11 years to release, so with that logic I hope we see Asylum finally comin out this year, I love this saga so much
American McGee has announced a third game called Alice asylum. It’s still in development. It has a Kickstarter idk if it reached its goal or not but I hope it releases
I loved how they're were constantly changing her dress to suit her environment. The underwater one/ The walrus&the Carpenter is a major fave but the red fancy dress with black/ white accent is a classic look. 👌
I say (with all due respect) she doesn't need to be sexualized. Her confidence and the way she carries herself does that for her. Least....that's why I find her attractive.
No, the Infernal train is not Alice original train of thought. The story of the Mock Turtle clearly state he was the original conductor on the Looking Glass Line( a metaphoric line for Alice's point of view). Only after his train derail, possibly due to the trauma and Bauby influence, he resigned and go to the Dept where sailor died - the grave of thought. Then by the Dr hyponosis(which created the Doll Maker) and Alice's allowance (the Hare and Mice), the Infernal Train carrying oblivion was created and scheduled to erase every thing in her Wonderland.
@@qj9673 her trauma was part of her Wonderland or the Red Queen i believed ( in the first game she was the personal that Alice put in charge to deal with the trauma which result in her insanity). The train are the hyposis of the doctor find it way in Alice's mind to erase it/ burn it to the ground
17:34 I always feared the Executioner, now I can't stop laughing after I deafeted him. Everytime he ungrips his scythe, I can't stop thinking him saying "I don't get paid enough for this sh-t."
Alice in the asylum would perhaps be about trying to gain some sanity and truth, but Alice secretly wanted to bury the truth because she didn't want to accept it. Defeating the Queen of Hearts was defeating the part of her that knew the truth. It was a temporary solution and she gained some momentary mental clarity, and was released from the asylum. Alice's false leads once out of the asylum perhaps represent her unwillingness to stare the truth in the face and accept it because she did such a good job at burying it whilst in the asylum (compounded with Dr Bumby encouraging her to forget). Eventually though, she confronts the Queen of Hearts and finally accepts the truth. Comes full circle and gets closure with her family's death. Thus becomes fully sane and is at peace with everything within her mind. While everything cannot go back to normal from before the fire, it appears Alice is mentally stable enough to finally move on and start a new chapter in her life Like what the cheshire cat said at the end. "Forgetting the pain is convenient, remembering it is agonizing". Alice forgot the pain because it was convenient in the short-term, but remembering and reaching closure was agonizing although better for her long-term sanity
I personally think that the most interesting thing about this game is how The Dollhouse appears now that The Dollmaker rules it. It gives the vibe that it may have once been a place full of happy doll children and bright colors, but now it is a place built out of fragments and ruin as the surviving inhabitants hide from their corrupted former friends.
My interpretation of the ending of the game is Alice breaking free from her past and pain finding the strength to move forward. As a result of this she no longer sees reality as painful instead seeing it as a safe place thus making the two worlds one.
@@leonardobazail8740 It's a Days of Future Past situation... Where the younger version of herself would kick in and try to save the adult Alice... Though, should "adult" Alice be classified as an adult considering that mentally, she should be 8??? Girl spent 11 years locked away from society and human connection...
i know i say this because the bar is quite low, but one of the things i love and appreciate the most about this series is the fact that they refused to sexualize alice. they present her trauma very realistically and respectfully when i feel like most would have just taken the easy shock value path with her character.
It isn't just that the series is not sexualizing her, it's the fact that the second game is about her freeing herself and other innocent children from sexualization as well that makes it so good
I loved the ending, felt like she projected her alter ego so strongly till the doctor can see it, but sad because it looks like she'll live her free life insane.
The Alice: Otherworld shorts, connected to this series show she is pretty stable Though it's Ambiguous how wonderland affects is and if Alice has some Physic connection to it
I used to think so too, but as an allegory for real mental health issues it's better this way. The wonderland episodes were scary and debilitating for her because she had unresolved trauma and people were abusing her, but as she kills her abuser in a moment of regained agency, she is able to use the wonderland part of herself as a source of strength. When the real world gets merged with wonderland, I see it as her learning to exist alongside her hallucinations instead of them having complete control over her, and as a result the world looks brighter than it ever has. It illustrates how in the real world there is no cure for people with Alice's type of mental illness, but with proper treatment they can still live fulfilling lives. Having her get cured would cheapen the message.
I always loved how in the end Dr. Bumby seems like he can see Alice in her Wonderland form too, which seems to surprise and scare him. (Which opens up a whole other can of interpretations for the game.)
Well, in my interpretation, he sees that she is no longer holding back how she will act, as it seems when in her wonderland form she doesn't hold back and is twice as stronger than her other form, so when he saw her wonderland form, he could sense that she wasn't holding back after everything (I hope I didn't offend anyone by accident 😭)
I’m pretty sure there is symbolism, but after accepting londerland, Alice can enter other people’s minds. It’s proven from alice in otherlands and the asylum bible, where she enters the greedy doctor’s mind, and bumby’s too.
There was actually a hint to the dollmaker at the very start of the game when you are outside the orphanage there is a courtyard with children the one that is the hint is a young girl that is facing the wall away from the other children and word for word quotes the line of poem that the dollmaker says about the train.
@@abyssalatlas yes. Bumby most certainly raped Lizzie before killing her, and then he caused the fire to cover his wicked crime. the worst part? he claimed Lizzie secretly wanted him to do that to her. just like verminous wretch like Bumby to think that.
I believe the fans will come through, bc sometimes if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. After all, that’s exactly how Rhythm Heaven got revived. And besides, EA would’ve ruined the game anyway.
A friend of mine recently bought the game and streamed it for our friends to watch. It was fun and interesting to go through the game and make jokes, but when we got to the Dollhouse, every single one of us just felt, extremely uncomfortable. Mainly because we already knew what the area is representing and why it's there. We had to take long breaks throughout the game because of how uncomfortable we got. Eventually, we got through it and finished the game. Although my friend playing was getting stuck and kept dying at the final boss, so I had to look up a walkthough and explain how they worked, and how to defeat each phase. The game is also very historically accurate. When I was watching someone (not my friend who was playing) play the game with their friend, the friend picked up a good amount of history points of the game. For an example, the sound of the Pepper Grinder firing, it was actually the sound of the very first Machine Gun created. Most definitely would suggest someone play the game, and then replay it to see the signs and hints at the very beginning of Bumby's actions.
Fun fact: the Cheshire Cat's ending monologue in the final cutscene of Madness Returns is based on several of the random quotes he would make when the player used the "Advice" command in the original American McGee's Alice. Specifically, "Only a few find the way; some don't recognize it when they do, some don't ever want to" and "Only the savage regard the endurance of pain as the measure of worth" stood out to me, given how it's been 10+ years since I last played the original.
Absolutely loved this game. The art, the simple yet eerie music, the visual storytelling in the level designs, the use of picking up memories and Dr. Bumby being a great villain. The final level is sickening once you realize all the subtextual meanings of the pedophilic symbolism. 🤢
This was one of the first videogames I really got into (my mother said that videogames rot your brain), and I fell in love with it for many reasons: the spellbinding imagery, the plucky but tragic protagonist, the interesting spin on a story that I love, the symbolism, and the rather mature themes. The one thing it needed? SuperHorrorBro explaining it ;)
Video games are meant to be fun of course, but now, they’re like movies in which you play as the characters. It is an unfortunate fact that the media has been jeopardizing boomers’ view on video games. Seriously, here if you mention video games, they simply will think about those online games, they’re still fun to play but sadly they never think out of the box
@@genosootaku8649That's media for you. Theres the sensible ones but theres always the ones that try to sensationalize things and Video Games being relatively new is an easy bait for older generations.
Alice into madness was my first experience with psychological horror that I could actually relate to as a child and I loved how gothically pretty it was despite how much it scared the shit out of me lmao
@@iamilibitirenbetter3266 i think they mean the fear factor- that or they're asking the original commenters mental state as a child. who knows, really.
@@ibugfishi i mean if they’re asking about my mental state as a child i was always adventuring in my own mind so i could relate to alice having a wonderland in hers and if they’re wondering about the fear factor i’m pretty sure the ending dr bumby boss is self explanatory LOL
For me, it was the beginning of the game with Alice’s vison of Wonderland falling into chaos. You know, the one where rabbit got his head blowed up and Alice got her defaced and dragged into the blood river by an army of hands. I feel very traumatized and uncomfortable just by thinking about it.
@@buttermotth according to TvTropes: "Adult Fears are about the things mature, well-adjusted adults generally are concerned about, as opposed to supernatural, petty or far-fetched fears: the safety of their children, the safety of their neighborhood, the fidelity of their spouse, the loyalty of their friends and coworkers, the health of themselves and their family, being able to pay their bills, etc. To an adult (especially paranoid fathers), children being preyed upon by paedophiles or sociopaths can be scarier than children being preyed upon by a Xenomorph"
to save herself, alice had to also embrace herself, which included her madness and wonderland. although she will never be traditionally 'normal', she is now whole. and i think thats beautiful (and a very poetic way of facing the reality of living with mental illness) (that being said i dont want to go around and claim freely that alice's depiction is faithful, i just think its well done)
I love how this game is getting attention after all these years! Back in the day only pewdiepie did a play through on madness returns and he didn’t even finish it. I’ve been watching and re watching all of your playthroughs!
It’s regaining attention lately because McGee is working on a new one lately and they’re getting close to being able to present the idea to EA to get production started.
Yea, 2021 is being a good year for alice, because of the announcements of alice asylum, the frequent updates and because the first two games are on gamepass, giving a lot of people that didn't know it yet the chance of playing and loving it, like me
I'm real happy that this game seems to be getting a bit of resurgence in popularity recently, absolutely deserved. I love this game so much I even got a full tattoo sleeve based around it. Such a shame this is under EA, I want to believe that with the creator battling for a third game and this little popularity boost will be enough to convince them but given their track record I don't want to be too optimistic.
I always had one question towards the end. Why did the doctor seemed to shocked when she turned around? (Righr before she pushed him) In a way, I like to imagine that Alice truly did change physically before she pushed the doctor.
The reason he was shock was because he hypnosis her to never hurt him. That why he said "and you're powerless to change it or move against me. I made sure of that."
Bumby's reaction to Alice changing into her Wonderland dress is because he's shocked to realize she's no longer the vulnerable unstable victim he sees her as, but a mentally strong woman with the willpower to overcome her traumatic past
She didn't really 'change' her dress per se, but rather, it's a metaphor for the fact that she is now capable to overcome her difficult past, grew into a strong willed woman, and ready to take on Bumby. And the scene at the end, where you see Londerland, itself also is a metaphor for the melting of her subconscious 'world' and reality itself, meaning that she will never return to wonderland again to seek solace or consolation. There will be a segment in Alice: Asylum to further elaborate on this
I still love the fact that the Devs wanted CG fmv cutscenes, but they were pressed for time so the cutscenes were "simplified". But I personally love the cutscene style.
that’s kinda the point though, it’s where you (at least i did) begin to realize that something far more insidious has taken place/been done to Alice with that being said, every time i play through the game, that chapter takes so much mental preparation
The ending and the truth will always disgust me, might be because I am deathly scared of dolls, but I can’t help but absolutely love this game. I discovered this game through SHB and I am happy I did, even if it grosses me out
I love this game. It needs a remake or at least a remaster for all modern platforms. The game is also interesting because you can't really say it has a good ending. She takes down the guy who destroyed her life and mind but she's become incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality and has gone fully insane. Very bold ending that I thought was fantastic.
Love that people are still talking about this game series more than 10 years after its last installment. Just goes to show that good, thought-provoking art endures. :)
Fun fact: The vorpal knife is a reference to the vorpal blade from Lewis Carrol's poem "Jabberwocky". The blade was use to slay the jabberwocky, which is why Alice found the knife on the Jabberwocky's skeleton
@@Jennifahh first off literally barely anyone knows that, that's such a specific piece of information. And also even if everyone knew that, it'd still be a fact... that's like saying "the sky is blue" isn't a fact cause everyone knows it.
@@malachiwatson745 cmon people must know that, it’s such a basic part of Alice. Did I just learn the poem because I’m near Oxford or is my school just spesh?
19:54 "tweedle dum and tweedle dee, who now seem to be working at the asylum" you have it reversed. in the og game, the tweedles were based on these orderlies. included with the og game, there was a novella from the perspective of doctor wlson. he describes how a cat is always around the asylum (cheshire cat), she talks to her one-eyed rabbit doll (white rabbit), the orderlies bullied alice and she attacked them irl with a spoon (the tweedle boss battle), boojums are staff screaming in her ear, the duchess was a nurse, etc. another interesting thing about the case book is it includes detailed drawings from alice, which make her out as a very skilled artist depicting what she sees in wonderland. but in madness returns she's only able to draw childish scribbles ):
The game suggests that she's not *_insane,_* just... Odd. She's still able to live a normal life but will always be seen as slightly eccentric by people around her.
@@bamshablam5977 PTSD can cause psychotic breaks, it doesn't mean you're crazy. She is suffering from the PTSD of *_watching her parents burn alive,_* while also being emotionally and psychologically manipulated. She's not insane. Maybe a little bit crazy, but she's not psychotic.
@@wendycarter7506 I don't think she'll have a normal life. She killed a man, and it was implied before that no one would believe her if she told them why. She literally sacrificed her entire life to rid the world of that psycho. That's why the ending is happy yet sad at the same time. She won, but at what cost? She'll probably spend her entire life in the asylum after the murder is found out.
What I found very interesting is the fact that Dr. Bumby actually saw Alice transform into her Wonderland persona right before she killed him. Alice's otherworldly experiences may not be entirely in her own mind after all...
You never know. It cud be that hr saw her hostile behaviour and that shocked him. The dress change only for us players as symbolising that she took matters into her own hands like she does in wonderland
I don't think so. I belive that him seeing the person he _though_ he almost broke, and expects to just go away, while feeling sad and powerless suddenly turning around with murder in eyes was more then enough.
I knew this game delved into some heavy topics when I played it a few years ago, but I didn’t realize how much of wonderland is Alice’s personification and symbolism of her trauma. I guess the levels took so long to beat that I barely focused on the story and some of the dialogue just confused me, but man, this game is amazing!
I love that last line that points out Alice had too been neglecting the children in her grief. Your explanation videos are some of the best out there, because you really go into how the story affects everything in it.
I absolutely adored this game. It reeks of early 2000s Energy. It didn’t pull no punches. The story was very gripping. The animation was so angelic. Overall a great game People talk about games now. And how they are so gruesome and violent. Games in the early 2000 didn’t really get that filter it needed. Which made for a unique and raw experience Like Alice madness I love this dark twist. And representation of trauma Kinda reminds me of wolf among us. With the fairytale gone wrong aspect Another master piece
Dang I forgot that I made this comment. I really went critic mode on this one. Not going to lie I made myself proud with this review. Hope you guys feel the same
Well...also it symbolizes the part she played working with him. If she dissociated and he purged that as well is besides the point. She was the kids care taker. "Don't fail us again!" She also has to get over her guilt in whatever form known at the time or not to save them in the end.
FINALLY I have been waiting for another theory to go through about Alice in Wonderland: Madness Returns. It's really a shame that this amazing game is too underrated.
So the first game (American McGee’s Alice) doesn’t have the same over arching story that Alice Madness has. It’s based solely in Wonderland and is more focused on Alice overcoming her guilt from not really being able to do anything to save her family. The sequel retcons quite a bit and adds Alice’s sister who didn’t exist at all in the first game.
@@skyeperez8305 It's not a retcon, Lizzie is a real girl who existed. In the first Alice: In Wonderland book, the opening chapter specifically mentions Alice's older sister (although she is not named). The author of the book, Lewis Carrol, based the story on a little girl and her family who he knew personally and was good friends with. This girl's real name *_was_* Alice Liddel, and she was a very real person. Her older sister was Elizabeth Liddel, Lizzie for short. The game is based on combining Book Alice with Reality Alice into the same person. TL;DR, it's not a retcon, she always had a sister, the first game simply never addressed it because it wasn't relevant to the story the first game was telling.
@@wendycarter7506 in a way, the dr is Lewis Corrupted self. In reality, he created the book just to make a little girl happy, but in the game... I hate that Dr with a passion
Hey there Mike! Hope you don’t mind but I made Timestamps for those who want to use them *Timestamps* 0:00 Intro 0:50 Alice’s Story 2:49 The World of Wonderland 4:18 The Beginning of Madness Returns 5:50 Return to Wonderland 7:01 The Hatter’s Domain 10:14 The Walrus and the Carpenter 13:18 The Caterpillar 15:38 The Queen of Hearts 19:15 The Dollmaker 24:18 The Ending
One thing that I feel that needs to be touched is the last scene with bumby. Could bumby see in his last moments what Alice became or was it just us the player that could see?
Both? I interpret the scene as Alice changing to their wonderland persona in the real world, with the clothes change being only a symbol of that mental change for us players. Bumby was surprised because the fragile, feeble, mindwrecked girl changed in a confident, determined woman in front of his eyes. That, and the murderous intent in her eyes did the trick.
Fun fact : there’s an Easter egg in the queen of hearts’ castle, showing a skeleton of the game Psychonauts’ main character Razputin. The fact that this was shown it’s because it’s a special thank to Double Fine productions, video game developers known for their games such as Psychonauts, Grim Fandango and Brütal Legend
I think you can get Madness Returns on Steam, but I have no clue on the first one. I live through Let's Players since I'm too poor to afford any games these days.
Some thing to note is that the goopy enemies you fight that are covered in baby doll head also appear to be the same group dripping out of the doll maker himself, possibly a more subtle hint at his effect on Alice overall.
When wonderland and London merge at the end which is in sharp contrast to the rest of the game where she dips in and out it highlights how Alice has finally completely lost her mind through the trauma of releasing suppressed memories. Alice had a decision to live in denial and keep ahold of her sanity or delve deeper into wonderland to collect the truths buried in her subconscious by her therapist and her defence mechanisms to avenge her family. She won and got justice but at the expense of her sanity which she fought so hard for on the first game. The story telling of this game is an underrated masterpiece.
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I haven't heard this title in years...Seriously, one of the best games I've ever played. The story is fantastic, and Alice is such a well-written character. She's mentally ill, has trauma, selfish, smug, and sarcastic, but she's also intelligent, empathetic, righteous, caring, and truly good underneath all the walls and hard edges she puts up. And I love how her mental illness and trauma were not romanticized. They were treated something she has to live and deal with, and she dealt with them like how a person with obligations and other daily responsibilities would deal with them. I really hope American McGee continues more with Alice, whether that's a prequel, sequel, inter-quel, whatever. I don't want her story to be over yet.
Well, you're in luck. American McGee just so happens to be making a prequel called Alice: Asylum. It's going to cover what happened shortly after the fire and her going through and processing the different stages of grief. It'll be fun.
@@bleachablemoments4618
More like a Days of Future Past situation...
I hope that they also do an alternate ending in the restored version of the game where she does merge with her wonderland self, but she actually had backup in the form of the family attorney and Nan Sharpe. Then the authorities come and arrest him. To me, I think him getting hit by a train, he got off way too easy.
@@savannahhague4989
Like fully using her superpowers???
@@陳潔明-w6y maybe. I just like seeing bad guys get caught by the police if you know what I mean.
If I could elaborate on a few more things, specifically what certain characters symbolise -- this is what happen when I obsess over a game for 10 years!
-Dr. Bumby killed the White Rabbit early on, as he was a direct link to Alice's memories and higher senses.
-The Cheshire Cat is likely Alice's conscience or inner voice, telling her what to do and info she must hear.
-The Jabberwock personified Alice's guilt. His bones appear because she overcame her guilt in the first game.
-The Mad Hatter is Alice's self-preservation, taken apart by his former friends to allow the Infernal Train to be built. The Hatter blames Alice for ignoring/forgetting what she sensed about Bumby's actions ("Forgetting is forgetting, then they call it something else.")
-The March Hare and Dormouse personify the parts of Alice's mind that wished to forget the past, but also the cruelty of the Industrial Revolution.
-The Mock Turtle not only personifies Alice's grief and depression, but also may have been a key part of her mental defences, removed from his position as the conductor of Looking Glass Line, a necessary move to let Dr. Bumby insert the train into Alice's psyche.
-The Carpenter is Alice's own ignorance, sending her on a wild goose chase to hide the truth from her. The Walrus likely personifies how Alice sees sexual predators and clientele for prostitutes.
-The theatre's contributors (drunk octopus, bottle-shaped music fish, oyster girls) represent alcoholism and prostitution.
-The Caterpillar is Alice's high senses, inner wisdom, logic, and reason.
-The White King's insistence on sacrifice symbolises Alice's need to sacrifice her own focus on her own pain to save the children.
-The Tweedles are based on two orderlies who abused Alice in the asylum.
-The little girl who leads the Insane Children is the part of Alice's mind that knew the truth, but the Dollmaker later rips her eyes out to stop Alice from gaining "clear sight" of things.
This analysis here answered a few of my own questions. Thank you!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You are a incredible theorist my friend
This is one of the best character analysis I’ve ever read for this game! You did an awesome job on this and thanks for sharing it! I would never have made these great connections! 👍🏻
@@4nna8096 here, here¡ well said
@@charlottehughes7378 thanks :)
When the kid said “Don’t desert us…again” It hurt because Alice is the only one who has not been brainwashed by the doctor to forget…But whilst she is gone the doctor resumes his Horrible acts upon all the kids…
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got. It's been a year and you have over 1,000 likes! How has no one replied?!
@@afellowpotato potatooooo 🥔
Poe-tay-toe
I forgot this comment existed lol
Well, the good news is that this guy is now a train's new paint job.
If this game has taught me anything, it would be:
"Sorry, can't give you the answer. But ask that guy, he can help."
That's the story in a nutshell
The princess is in another castle
😝🤞🤞✌
Then you end up answering your own question
"ask your dad"
"Ask your mom"
"She hurt me feelings." Proceed to beat up an innocent unconscious and leave.
Amazing.
And sets the building on fire, with intent to kill dozens of people.
@Reddit Brink. To be fair, this was a common behavior back in the 1800's.
@@dragonbornexpress5650 even some people now days act like that
Tbf I can believe many people would do the same thing nowdays
Sigma grindset
“You’ve used me and abused me, but you will not destroy me.”- Alice Liddel.
such a powerful line there, I (whose also suffers from a mental illness) find this incredibly empowering because for me, just because I suffer mentally and ppl label me as useless and dare I say crazy, it doesn’t mean that I’m a threat to society or dangerous, I had gotten to the point where I just felt bad for not being like anybody else who was “normal” when I was younger
Wait wait what part was that again?
@@annieee7140 it was towards the end of the game. When Alice finally puts the pieces together on what REALLY HAPPENED when the house caught fire and her family dying in the process and confronts bumby whose trying to escape by train
This show has so many powerful moments ❤ this was certainly one of the most memorable parts. I also found Fran Bow quite memorable. These types of symbolic games with in depth stories are so underrated ❤
I hope you're doing well! I hesitate to give advice since I'm not very normal too, but if we help the world in atleast some small ways then it's a life that's good and worth living. Normal people are often surrounded by sharks themselves so they need to mask, but as they get older life usually gets better and more free when we put less weight on pleasing strangers expectations. Life's not about being yourself, it's about being the best version of yourself!
@@pharaohsmagician8329 hello! I’m doing better for over three years now :) been doing therapy and psychotherapy and it’s been great so far much work is needed but I’m in a much better head space mentally and physically. And I absolutely agree with everything you have said. Very well written 🤍🤍🤍
The adults who were supposed to help Alice had abandoned her, exploited her or told her to leave her wonderland but it was imagination and wonderland that saved her. She really did save herself
We gotta give a well done to Alice and a lot of praise.
She faced her demons and her tragic memories. It was painful, but it was all worth it to regain her mind and average her family. Not many people could do that.
Sometimes that's the only option. Or death
With the exception of Nan, at least she helped her a little and never used her unlike That drunken Pris or the greedy advocate.
And the fact that I have imaginary world myself, kind of weirds me out so does that mean I experience trauma?
All of the events in the game wouldn't happen if Alice got a normal therapist.
No, it wouldn't have happened if she wasn't in 17th century Europe.
Edit: first you all correct me saying it's 17th century, now you all say 19th century! Pick a f*cking lane!
I disagree with both of these it wouldn’t have happened if someone didn’t murder her family.
@@miablairy1920 I agree,
If that crazy therapist had not oh idk BURNED THE HOUSE WITH ALICE’S FAMILY AND KILLED THEM, the story would truly be much much different.
But if you think about it in a way if it wasn’t Alice....... someone ELSE would have been the victim to the therapist’s madness.
E
Therapist
How fitting
Cause the Therapist
Was Harressing Alice's sister with Lewd intent
He's literally
The R*pist
The Doctor is pure evil, also the fact he would wave Lizzis key in Alice ' s face (to put her under) /kept the key is so sick.
it's like he's making fun of Alice for not knowing what really happened to her sister
Oh my god. I’ve played this game so much and NEVER noticed that. Ugh. I hate him more!
Yeah, he deserves to be a plank on the train track.
@@Jyster370
Honestly he deserved way worse (not arguing with you I just really hate people who harm children)
@@starrycharacter Oh for sure, that was the most creative thing I could’ve thought of at the time lol
The Chesire Cat is the only Creature that is on Alice's Side and Is willing to help her
@@alderaan1931 Also probably lightly based off of her real cat, which showed her the way to escape the fire, without meaning really to.
And then explodes in American McGee 💀
however that cat is sometimes really confusing and doesnt always support her directly. he is like your intuition
@@nemasisdemarini8339 he is, it's Dinah. If you ever read the book it's very clear Dinah and the Cheshire Cat are one in the same. She says in the book : if only you could talk what a wonderful world it would be.
@@kytiladdy the Cheshire cat speaks in riddles, it wouldn't be very interesting if he just spoon fed her everything, now would it? And in the book Alice always said she just loved riddles. (at least the Cheshire cat didn't just vanish in thin air like Navi, Links guide in OoT) what a painful game Oot was for me, watching all his loved ones disappear after saving all of them and Hyrule 😔
This game is horrendously underrated. The level design and how the story is presented to the player is one of the best I've ever seen. I wish both games got remastered, they deserve it.
There have been talks about remastering both games. But then again, it's all up to EA
@@aleisinwndrlen7113 I hope EA will remaster the games, while I never got the chance to play the original I absolutely adore the second one. I hope the creator will be able to convince EA to make another Alice game, but as you said, that's up to EA.
@@BrightWulph Don’t worry Alice 3 is on pre-production right now
@@sergioosorio5115 Amazing! I can't wait! I also hope EA doesn't meddle with it. XP
@@BrightWulph There's a steam thread some time ago which gives a link for a cracked version of the first game. However, I think you ought to have Madness Returns installed first to have it, as you'll play it directly from an option on the main menu, not a separate application
I love the overall message. People who struggle with mental health and trauma may not function “normally” (how they would act if they did not experience these things) again but can still heal and have control over their future. We are not defined by what we’ve experienced only what we make out of it. I love this game the symbolism and meaning behind everything is so thoughtful.
Brilliant, you said it beautifully. Young minds turn to noble ambitions, no matter what troubles you're facing you must carry on and keep the torch lit for other people to find there way out of the same dark. Where is the distance in the dark?
@@IzzyakaSpookyGurlQueenal-lh3dhwhat happened to your friend? I'm sorry you experienced that.
@@IzzyakaSpookyGurlQueenal-lh3dh If you are a friend of the Lorelei I can see while Google searching, I hope that you are kinder to yourself in the future. Stay strong.
I am in the process of healing and this comment touch me to the core. Navigating myself throughout adolescence was not easy(and my parents didn’t know about it) and even though is wasn’t perfect, I’m still thankful.
Getting up and combating while being understanding to people around me is hard to balance as a person that is entering adulthood. At the end of the day, I knew myself so much(without disregarding the my parents even though they have significant contribution with my upbringing, at least I can do decision).
seeing Bumby get killed by Alice causes me to feel a way that can only be described by a slasher smile. I enjoyed seeing that bastard die.
i one hundred percent agree . i died laughing at him when he died ... lmao
I believe many people feel the same.
IDK the animation and sound design was so wonky I couldn't help but chuckle.
@@KSHvoiceactingofficial Torture never brings justice and besides he's not real. Chill TF out.
@@youcantbeatk7006He is symbolic for predators in real life! unalive predators is greatest justice especially when no want to believe you! You are a boy who doesn’t know anything about being SA or experience anything as traumatic as that
At 19:48
I think it was hinted in the first game that Tweedle Dee and Tweedle dum were real nurses who treated Alice when she was in the asylum through some of their dialogues. I remember them mocking Alice a lot before she fought them.
The original game came with a diary of sorts detailing the characters they were orderlys but i dont remember relationship to nurse
Yes, in the booklet in the original game I remember her talking about them being orderlies and force feeding her porridge
I like Alice's different outfits, they're beautiful. The developers must have worked really hard on them.
That hair must have been so hard to program
Same I love her dress
Legit same. Whilst some are not really my taste others absolutely sprung out to me. And the hair is just stunning for 2011!
Same I love her dress
@@markusallen6818 oh yeah, didn’t even think of that!
You're the only person I've heard or seen talk about what the therapist did pretty bluntly. I'm surprised and impressed
If its an explanation video, why not.
But we all know we're all absolutely disgusted by it.
@@cherrydragon3120 Yeah, but there are people who, for whatever reason, tiptoe around the subject, even if it's an explanation video. But it's important to say it straight up because it emphasizes how truly obscene it is, and also because it's literally a big part of the game.
Right. Ignoring the problem is worse than anything else
@@hunglikearooster maybe their scared they'll get demonized?
@@cocomo3141 yeah, that's always a factor
I believe the reason why Alice survived was, despite the suffering she endured in the asylum, was so that she could have a chance to avenge her family and overthrow Dr. Bumby for all the misery he had caused.
Make your survival mean something basically
Anita Sarkeesian: There are not enough strong, female lead characters in video games.
Alice: Really? Hold my Ritalin Anita, and let me show you what MY mind sees.
@@deathstrike Wow, all these years and you've still never actually taken the time to engage with her as anything more than a 2D cut-out, huh? And understood that the entire media landscape is more than just one game which did well ten years ago? That "more" doesn't mean there weren't any in the first place? And that it is critical thought and people who take it to heart that makes it so characters like Alice are /more abundant/? Which I'm pretty sure we'd both agree is a good thing?
@@EL-jq1sq Wow all these years and you haven't heard of anything called a joke? Why would anyone assume because I made a joke that there is more to in that? Damn don't people laugh anymore? Does everything have to be so serious or laid out? SMH
@@deathstrike I do apologise for being so curt to a stranger, but let me explain myself. Firstly, jokes obvoiusly often have kernels of truth hence the saying "it's funny cause it's true" and their use in "speaking truth to power". Secondly, think of who is the butt of the joke in your joke, and whom you're making seem ridiculous. Jokes are a form of communication, what is your joke communicating? Nothing is ever just anything, and jokes perpetuate a narrative which shows a peek into the teller's mindset. Especially when I saw these exact jokes in the thick of the backlash towards Sarkeesian. If I saw someone making a joke where the butt of the joke is against someone, and the crux of it is an implicit criticism, why wouldn't I assume that it held insight?
Also, sometimes a joke is just bad.
Something fascinating about the game is how the "infection" works its way like a violent industrialization of Wonderland. By erasing memories and making the children blank, its like he turned the organic part of their mind mechanical, just like the corruption is represented by an oil-like sludge that burns bright and is carried by a massive train, how the Hatter's workshop became an imposing factory and how the very last level, the "attic" of the dollhouse, looks like a sweatshop where Bumby turns children into "dolls".
Also, the soundtrack of this game is SUBLIME! My first time playing it I actualy stopped at the menu because the song got me so enthralled I forgot what I was doing xD
Also, it makes sense when you realise that the game is set in London, which was the heart of the Industrial Revolution back in the 1800s. I love it whenever games and stories are able to link themes like this, it hits that part of the brain that makes me happy.
It should be mentioned that currently, the creator of the Alice video games is trying to create a prequel game that would reflect Wonderland's increasing deterioration after the fire, while Alice explored the five stages of Grief. I hope that becomes a reality
A prequel? I thought the carnival was to be a sequel
@@alpha8here it's called Alice's Asylum. Announced last year. He gave up on Carnival by the looks of it
Yes! Probably why he is doing it?
Wait, aren't there 5 stages?
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
Or did you mix them up with the seven sins perhaps?
I checked the wiki a while ago and the planned release is somewhere around Halloween this year. Hope this is helpful
Madness returns to me is like, the only story that takes the "Alice in wonderland but EDGY and Alice does drugs and has mental problems" concept and uses it well. It is a story about a young woman with psychosis escaping the abuse of those who should have been her caretakers but instead hurt her, and she also makes sure that the other children won't suffer anymore. It also subverts a lot of tropes is horror around mental illness I've always found to be harmful. Very good game with an amazing story I adore
You forgot to mention that it doesn't romanticize her depression or psychological problems, not like other products ...
I hear this claim a lot, but I’ve never seen a story actually romanticize mental illness. I don’t even get why a story would do so purposely.
@@TheBlueLink3 ust search for "romanticizing mental illness" on youtube and you will find millions of videos complaining about this issue, mostly are teenagers who romanticize these things because they think it is "uwu quirky! rawr XD"
same, I I just getting into this game I am super intrigued by its story and characters
@@skyxclouds3765 I don’t think it’s teenagers that are the issue, a lot of media that is aimed towards them while they’re going through mental health problems ARE the issue though such as: Skins, 13RW and euphoria tend to romanticise mental illness as either something romantic, dramatic or something that can make you stronger. For a lot of teens this is the only rep they have and it’s easy to see why they end up viewing mental illness that way. Not every teenager is faking mental illness to seem “qUiRky” sadly it is quite common nowadays esp with the rise of social media and how easy it is for teens to be taken advantage of.
Although agreed that there’s been a weird rise in people thinking DID is a cute??? Relationship goal??? Very odd, especially on tiktok.
I never realized that Madness Returns was a sequel. It definitely makes sense but that game does such a good job of keeping you up to speed and telling the story that as long as you have basic knowledge of Alice in Wonderland you can make the connection easily.
When did the first game take place right after the fire or before it?
@@Bejd539 First game was about Alice's mental struggle during her time in the Asylum. Madness Returns takes place a year after the ending of the first game.
I think the reason the vale of tears is initially beautiful is that it's her outermost layer of her mind. The small part of herself that's managed to heal somewhat and can put forward a lovely face to the outside world. It's even called the Veil of Tears because it represents the healthy grieving she's done and how it's allowed her to heal a little bit with the dead Jabberwock as one demon slain, but sadly there are many more to go.
It also seems to be the only part of Wonderland that she’s entirely invented herself, that isn’t based on some part of the real world. From thereon every level can be traced back to something in reality (the docks representing the Deluded Depths, the prison cells becoming Queensland, Bumby’s house becoming the Dollhouse, and so on.) It’s the only place that’s just hers, that she can go to for respite.
Also, if any of you didn't notice; there are different astrological symbols on each of the pocket dresses she wore. Each of them shows the meaning of the themes with each own current stages like Misstitched dress with Mars (♂) Ruler of lust; represents the Dollmaker.
The other symbol is Ceres which is the Roman goddess and ruler of the harvest (harvesting children for lustful purposes), during her time at the Dollhouse, near the end. If want to know, there's the wiki that shows each meaning for each dresses. The deeper meaning of significant details that had given were pretty much understated, so props to McGee. Like damn.
I feel like you can always find new references and symbolisms in the game everytime. The level of details in this game is outstanding
The blue dress had Jupiter and Venus
This game and Coraline are what kickstarted my love for the horror genre in my childhood, and I love them for that.
Funny it would have been cool seeing American McGee make a game based on Coraline they based more so on the novel rather than the film especially if he actually got the original author Neil Gaiman to help much like he did when he helped Henry Selick with the movie adaption
YES I'M NOT ALONE! Coraline and AMR were ironically my escapisms back then.
SAme!! Alice Madness Returns was the first art book I purchased and I fell in love
I recommend checking out the game Pocket Mirror because it has a similar Alice in wonderland horror feel
Same
Isn’t coraline inspired by Alice in wonderland?
theres a text post on tumblr thats like "i dont know why anybody bothers with the edgy alice in wonderland trope, american mcgee's alice & alice madness returns did it first & completely nailed it first try"
Tim burton can never lmao
@@leonardobazail8740 God Tim Burtons Alice is so bad it hurts
@@bamshablam5977 I do like mia i can never spell her last name though as Alice.
@@leonardobazail8740 wasikowska
@@bamshablam5977 true the main theme is good tho
Me: “I hate horror”
SuperHorrorBro: “no you don’t”
Me: ... damn
He right
Im not heate horror
I love horror
Eh. Depends on the horror genre.
Lmao he got ya
The original sequel to the original game took 11 years to release, so with that logic I hope we see Asylum finally comin out this year, I love this saga so much
they are in post production atm
@@PandaSenpai WAIT REALLY?!
@@PandaSenpai They are in pre-production, but still EA have the Alice IP and don't greenlighted any new project
They just announced a TV adaptation of the game. Hope it gets the same treatment as Arcane and The Cuphead Show.
@@purple1441 Sadly is a live-action adaptation series, not animation, hope they can get a big budget
American McGee has announced a third game called Alice asylum. It’s still in development. It has a Kickstarter idk if it reached its goal or not but I hope it releases
They have tried before and it failed hope it works this time.
He has a Patreon that updates fairly frequently! It's been amazing to see all the art development.
This comment should be pinned so more people see
Interetanting.
I was scared for a second that the game wasn’t being made!
I loved how they're were constantly changing her dress to suit her environment. The underwater one/ The walrus&the Carpenter is a major fave but the red fancy dress with black/ white accent is a classic look. 👌
My favorite part was seeing what dress she would get next and picking the one I wanted to wear
Imagine the game if a triple A company controlling it? $4.99 to change her dress, $2.99 to change her hairstyle . LOL
@@nguyendi92 Isn't the game publisher from EA?
Its also nice they didn't make the outfits very revealing nor sexual looking
Righhhht, I need her platforms n queen of hearts dress.
I really love that with all of the costume changes, Alice is never sexualized which you can't say about many video games
That’s one of the reasons why this is my favorite game.
And the costumes design are absolutely beautiful
THANK YOU. FINALLY XD
American Mcgee (the creator of this game) said that he doesn't seeing her sexualized neigther
I say (with all due respect) she doesn't need to be sexualized. Her confidence and the way she carries herself does that for her. Least....that's why I find her attractive.
I think the Doll Maker confirmed that the Infernal Train is actually Alice's train of thought, but has been corrupted by his influence.
The pun... Ow
No, the Infernal train is not Alice original train of thought. The story of the Mock Turtle clearly state he was the original conductor on the Looking Glass Line( a metaphoric line for Alice's point of view). Only after his train derail, possibly due to the trauma and Bauby influence, he resigned and go to the Dept where sailor died - the grave of thought. Then by the Dr hyponosis(which created the Doll Maker) and Alice's allowance (the Hare and Mice), the Infernal Train carrying oblivion was created and scheduled to erase every thing in her Wonderland.
I always thought the Infernal Train was the fire , or rather you could say Alice's trauma .
@@qj9673 her trauma was part of her Wonderland or the Red Queen i believed ( in the first game she was the personal that Alice put in charge to deal with the trauma which result in her insanity). The train are the hyposis of the doctor find it way in Alice's mind to erase it/ burn it to the ground
Oh that makes sense.
@@iepvienredstoneHuy007
17:34 I always feared the Executioner, now I can't stop laughing after I deafeted him.
Everytime he ungrips his scythe, I can't stop thinking him saying "I don't get paid enough for this sh-t."
"ah piss"
The stages of the Doll Girl's death symbolizing what Bumby did to those poor orphans holds water to me.
Imagine if someone innocently looked up the original storybook and found this game
Only will happend if they look for "Madness"
Publish dishonored 3 godd Howard
Oh god
OK. I will. Thank You for asking. :).
Me and my cousins were on a horror game binge back in the day with Resident Evil then seeing the first game in a game guide. The joy.
Alice in the asylum would perhaps be about trying to gain some sanity and truth, but Alice secretly wanted to bury the truth because she didn't want to accept it. Defeating the Queen of Hearts was defeating the part of her that knew the truth. It was a temporary solution and she gained some momentary mental clarity, and was released from the asylum.
Alice's false leads once out of the asylum perhaps represent her unwillingness to stare the truth in the face and accept it because she did such a good job at burying it whilst in the asylum (compounded with Dr Bumby encouraging her to forget). Eventually though, she confronts the Queen of Hearts and finally accepts the truth. Comes full circle and gets closure with her family's death. Thus becomes fully sane and is at peace with everything within her mind. While everything cannot go back to normal from before the fire, it appears Alice is mentally stable enough to finally move on and start a new chapter in her life
Like what the cheshire cat said at the end. "Forgetting the pain is convenient, remembering it is agonizing". Alice forgot the pain because it was convenient in the short-term, but remembering and reaching closure was agonizing although better for her long-term sanity
I personally think that the most interesting thing about this game is how The Dollhouse appears now that The Dollmaker rules it. It gives the vibe that it may have once been a place full of happy doll children and bright colors, but now it is a place built out of fragments and ruin as the surviving inhabitants hide from their corrupted former friends.
God that gives me chills.
The scene where the Queen of Hearts tells Alice that Lizzie wasn’t talking in her sleep is haunting.
1500 likes?
Thanks everyone!
Not to mention the line about “centaurs don’t live in Oxford”. Makes me think that Alice might have seen more than the game indicates 😖
@@RavynMad121 like
@@RavynMad121 what does the lines mean
@@ヴァイオレット-o3k That her sister was very likely raped and Alice witnessed it.
i know right
My interpretation of the ending of the game is Alice breaking free from her past and pain finding the strength to move forward. As a result of this she no longer sees reality as painful instead seeing it as a safe place thus making the two worlds one.
Which could kinda be retconed by Alice Asylum...
@@陳潔明-w6y that game might be a prequel instead.
@@leonardobazail8740
It's a Days of Future Past situation...
Where the younger version of herself would kick in and try to save the adult Alice...
Though, should "adult" Alice be classified as an adult considering that mentally, she should be 8??? Girl spent 11 years locked away from society and human connection...
@@陳潔明-w6y
You still mentally age in these situations, especially when you're in therapy the entire time.
@@HarryStikers
But she received virtually no stimulus...
She was practically asleep...
i know i say this because the bar is quite low, but one of the things i love and appreciate the most about this series is the fact that they refused to sexualize alice. they present her trauma very realistically and respectfully when i feel like most would have just taken the easy shock value path with her character.
I feel like there definitely is shock value, but not for shock value's sake.
It isn't just that the series is not sexualizing her, it's the fact that the second game is about her freeing herself and other innocent children from sexualization as well that makes it so good
I loved the ending, felt like she projected her alter ego so strongly till the doctor can see it, but sad because it looks like she'll live her free life insane.
The premise of Alice Asylum suggested she was sane after all, but she was depressed as hell...
The way I saw it was now that he's gone and can't hurt anyone anymore now The real world can be her wonderland
The Alice: Otherworld shorts, connected to this series show she is pretty stable
Though it's Ambiguous how wonderland affects is and if Alice has some Physic connection to it
i would choose the lives of tons of exploited children over my own sanity any day
I used to think so too, but as an allegory for real mental health issues it's better this way. The wonderland episodes were scary and debilitating for her because she had unresolved trauma and people were abusing her, but as she kills her abuser in a moment of regained agency, she is able to use the wonderland part of herself as a source of strength. When the real world gets merged with wonderland, I see it as her learning to exist alongside her hallucinations instead of them having complete control over her, and as a result the world looks brighter than it ever has. It illustrates how in the real world there is no cure for people with Alice's type of mental illness, but with proper treatment they can still live fulfilling lives. Having her get cured would cheapen the message.
fun fact: "Vorpal" is a word coined the Lewis Carroll, the original author of Alice in Wonderland.
is it perhaps an alternate word for "deadly"? because i remember reading it somewhere.
@@jacktheomnithere2127 I don't know...
Yup. It's from the Looking Glass, I believe
@@jacktheomnithere2127 Lewis Carroll (Charles Dodgson) never specified what vorpal means.
@@aleisinwndrlen7113 Yep, specifically the poem, Jabberwocky.
I always loved how in the end Dr. Bumby seems like he can see Alice in her Wonderland form too, which seems to surprise and scare him. (Which opens up a whole other can of interpretations for the game.)
Well, in my interpretation, he sees that she is no longer holding back how she will act, as it seems when in her wonderland form she doesn't hold back and is twice as stronger than her other form, so when he saw her wonderland form, he could sense that she wasn't holding back after everything
(I hope I didn't offend anyone by accident 😭)
@@Itz_Zero2468i’m so offended btw i hate yiu
I’m pretty sure there is symbolism, but after accepting londerland, Alice can enter other people’s minds. It’s proven from alice in otherlands and the asylum bible, where she enters the greedy doctor’s mind, and bumby’s too.
didn't that happen inside her mind?
There was actually a hint to the dollmaker at the very start of the game when you are outside the orphanage there is a courtyard with children the one that is the hint is a young girl that is facing the wall away from the other children and word for word quotes the line of poem that the dollmaker says about the train.
Since Lizzie was never touched by the fire, I would think that she was chloroformed by Bumby, before dying by inhaling the smoke of the fire.
She was murdered then the fire started
@@sundaystore9931 she was, but beforehand he did something a lot worse since he was a p*do and stuff, it’s sickening :(
@@abyssalatlas yes. Bumby most certainly raped Lizzie before killing her, and then he caused the fire to cover his wicked crime. the worst part? he claimed Lizzie secretly wanted him to do that to her. just like verminous wretch like Bumby to think that.
@@LordZadrenoss And as a result? The voice actor for the character refused to have his name credited, because of how disturbing it is
They did Lizzie so tragically dirty in this story.. Hope they give her character more depth in Alice Asylum xD
very, very sad that Alice Asylum is officially never happening now. EA really dropped the ball on such an amazing game.
Wait what? Is this true? How unfortunate 😢
I believe the fans will come through, bc sometimes if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. After all, that’s exactly how Rhythm Heaven got revived. And besides, EA would’ve ruined the game anyway.
Why not suggest them to make it into a movie instead
@@sekanii_po AYYYY NOT A BAD IDEA! :D
@@sekanii_po3d animation with the same if not similar aesthetic as the game and Susie Brann returning as the voice of course for Alice.
A friend of mine recently bought the game and streamed it for our friends to watch. It was fun and interesting to go through the game and make jokes, but when we got to the Dollhouse, every single one of us just felt, extremely uncomfortable. Mainly because we already knew what the area is representing and why it's there. We had to take long breaks throughout the game because of how uncomfortable we got. Eventually, we got through it and finished the game. Although my friend playing was getting stuck and kept dying at the final boss, so I had to look up a walkthough and explain how they worked, and how to defeat each phase.
The game is also very historically accurate. When I was watching someone (not my friend who was playing) play the game with their friend, the friend picked up a good amount of history points of the game. For an example, the sound of the Pepper Grinder firing, it was actually the sound of the very first Machine Gun created.
Most definitely would suggest someone play the game, and then replay it to see the signs and hints at the very beginning of Bumby's actions.
Fun fact: the Cheshire Cat's ending monologue in the final cutscene of Madness Returns is based on several of the random quotes he would make when the player used the "Advice" command in the original American McGee's Alice. Specifically, "Only a few find the way; some don't recognize it when they do, some don't ever want to" and "Only the savage regard the endurance of pain as the measure of worth" stood out to me, given how it's been 10+ years since I last played the original.
Absolutely loved this game. The art, the simple yet eerie music, the visual storytelling in the level designs, the use of picking up memories and Dr. Bumby being a great villain. The final level is sickening once you realize all the subtextual meanings of the pedophilic symbolism. 🤢
When I figured out what Dr.Bumby was doing I was like: “this is fuuuuucked”
when?
Nah fr I was disgusted 💀
when?
Doing what?
@@gura3321 selling children to pedophiles. He also erased their memories while using hypnosis.
This was one of the first videogames I really got into (my mother said that videogames rot your brain), and I fell in love with it for many reasons: the spellbinding imagery, the plucky but tragic protagonist, the interesting spin on a story that I love, the symbolism, and the rather mature themes. The one thing it needed? SuperHorrorBro explaining it ;)
Same here
I am not into horror, but dang this one is a pass
Video games are meant to be fun of course, but now, they’re like movies in which you play as the characters. It is an unfortunate fact that the media has been jeopardizing boomers’ view on video games. Seriously, here if you mention video games, they simply will think about those online games, they’re still fun to play but sadly they never think out of the box
@@genosootaku8649That's media for you. Theres the sensible ones but theres always the ones that try to sensationalize things and Video Games being relatively new is an easy bait for older generations.
I like how the dress changes its theme for each section. Also I'm pretty sure the Cheshire cat has blood on his teeth which is kinda worrying.
Alice into madness was my first experience with psychological horror that I could actually relate to as a child and I loved how gothically pretty it was despite how much it scared the shit out of me lmao
Is it that bad?
@@cherrydragon3120 wdym
@@iamilibitirenbetter3266 i think they mean the fear factor- that or they're asking the original commenters mental state as a child. who knows, really.
@@ibugfishi i mean if they’re asking about my mental state as a child i was always adventuring in my own mind so i could relate to alice having a wonderland in hers and if they’re wondering about the fear factor i’m pretty sure the ending dr bumby boss is self explanatory LOL
Idk why but the doctor was the scariest part of this game for me it creeps me out every time I remember the ending I get uncomfortable and scared 😟
For me, it was the beginning of the game with Alice’s vison of Wonderland falling into chaos. You know, the one where rabbit got his head blowed up and Alice got her defaced and dragged into the blood river by an army of hands. I feel very traumatized and uncomfortable just by thinking about it.
That's adult fear for ya
@@rougestarlight4308 you said it. 😰😰🥶🥶
@@rougestarlight4308 wdym by that? Sorry if that’s a stupid question my brain is sleepy
@@buttermotth according to TvTropes: "Adult Fears are about the things mature, well-adjusted adults generally are concerned about, as opposed to supernatural, petty or far-fetched fears: the safety of their children, the safety of their neighborhood, the fidelity of their spouse, the loyalty of their friends and coworkers, the health of themselves and their family, being able to pay their bills, etc.
To an adult (especially paranoid fathers), children being preyed upon by paedophiles or sociopaths can be scarier than children being preyed upon by a Xenomorph"
I really love the way the executioner looks up at Alice and drops his scythe as if to say "I'm screwed".
Are we just gonna ignore that the Executioner was like
"Oh……………………………………Sh*t."
And he drops his Scythe
Super funny xD
Well shit, I hate when the tables turn!
That's what I thought when I saw that scene lol
After having enough of his General Grievous schtick with his scythe, I had the biggest smile on my face when Giant Alice squashed the Executioner.
XD
I'm glad Alice killed Dr. Bumby, that scene is so satisfying.
I agree, and if the justice serves, Bumby's afterlife will be eternal damnation.
to save herself, alice had to also embrace herself, which included her madness and wonderland. although she will never be traditionally 'normal', she is now whole. and i think thats beautiful (and a very poetic way of facing the reality of living with mental illness)
(that being said i dont want to go around and claim freely that alice's depiction is faithful, i just think its well done)
This game is randomly popping up everywhere after 10 years. Love this game, and I'm happy it's finally getting the love it deserves.
Thanks youtube recommendation
Part 3 Alice Asylum maybe coming this year. Good possibility that it may be released this October for PS5
I wanted to play this game years ago but couldn’t get the money for it and randomly saw/played it on game pass recently all these years later
I love how this game is getting attention after all these years! Back in the day only pewdiepie did a play through on madness returns and he didn’t even finish it. I’ve been watching and re watching all of your playthroughs!
I remember waiting for Pewds to finish the gameplay but he never did. Ah,nostalgia.
It’s regaining attention lately because McGee is working on a new one lately and they’re getting close to being able to present the idea to EA to get production started.
GirlGamerGab, javksepticeyes GF played the whole game.
You can watch that if you likr
@@cherrydragon3120 I’ve already watched gab’s entire play through and I really loved it! thanks tho!
Yea, 2021 is being a good year for alice, because of the announcements of alice asylum, the frequent updates and because the first two games are on gamepass, giving a lot of people that didn't know it yet the chance of playing and loving it, like me
I'm real happy that this game seems to be getting a bit of resurgence in popularity recently, absolutely deserved. I love this game so much I even got a full tattoo sleeve based around it. Such a shame this is under EA, I want to believe that with the creator battling for a third game and this little popularity boost will be enough to convince them but given their track record I don't want to be too optimistic.
Ooh, what does your sleeve look like? Like I know you can't post pictures but describe it to me lol
Well, allegedly American Magee is working on a prequel to the games called Alice: Asylum. I think it’s in post-production, actually.
me, who's beaten these games at least six times over:
t e l l m e m o r e
I've beaten it repeatedly tooooooooo lol
same lmfao
same lmao
Not same lmao
I always had one question towards the end. Why did the doctor seemed to shocked when she turned around? (Righr before she pushed him) In a way, I like to imagine that Alice truly did change physically before she pushed the doctor.
The reason he was shock was because he hypnosis her to never hurt him. That why he said "and you're powerless to change it or move against me. I made sure of that."
So when she changed her dress in the end did it represent her no longer being controlled by him?
@@LudoLmao Yes
Bumby's reaction to Alice changing into her Wonderland dress is because he's shocked to realize she's no longer the vulnerable unstable victim he sees her as, but a mentally strong woman with the willpower to overcome her traumatic past
She didn't really 'change' her dress per se, but rather, it's a metaphor for the fact that she is now capable to overcome her difficult past, grew into a strong willed woman, and ready to take on Bumby. And the scene at the end, where you see Londerland, itself also is a metaphor for the melting of her subconscious 'world' and reality itself, meaning that she will never return to wonderland again to seek solace or consolation. There will be a segment in Alice: Asylum to further elaborate on this
I still love the fact that the Devs wanted CG fmv cutscenes, but they were pressed for time so the cutscenes were "simplified". But I personally love the cutscene style.
that dollhouse level made me *UNCOMFORTABLE*
I knoww right. Pretty weirded out when i saw that one.
Yeah it was the scariest one for me when i finished the game
then the level designer clearly did his job well :P
that’s kinda the point though, it’s where you (at least i did) begin to realize that something far more insidious has taken place/been done to Alice
with that being said, every time i play through the game, that chapter takes so much mental preparation
@@chxmpagneproblems Yeah, I know still, it made me uncomfortable as hell.
The ending and the truth will always disgust me, might be because I am deathly scared of dolls, but I can’t help but absolutely love this game. I discovered this game through SHB and I am happy I did, even if it grosses me out
I love this game. It needs a remake or at least a remaster for all modern platforms. The game is also interesting because you can't really say it has a good ending. She takes down the guy who destroyed her life and mind but she's become incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality and has gone fully insane. Very bold ending that I thought was fantastic.
Love that people are still talking about this game series more than 10 years after its last installment. Just goes to show that good, thought-provoking art endures. :)
Its a great game tho
@@cherrydragon3120 Yes?
But I installed it yesterday
Fun fact: The vorpal knife is a reference to the vorpal blade from Lewis Carrol's poem "Jabberwocky". The blade was use to slay the jabberwocky, which is why Alice found the knife on the Jabberwocky's skeleton
"Be careful my son, we're out of vorpal blades"
@@Jennifahh first off literally barely anyone knows that, that's such a specific piece of information. And also even if everyone knew that, it'd still be a fact... that's like saying "the sky is blue" isn't a fact cause everyone knows it.
@@malachiwatson745 cmon people must know that, it’s such a basic part of Alice. Did I just learn the poem because I’m near Oxford or is my school just spesh?
@@hangryhufflepuff9530 is it mentioned is the book? Not everyone has read that poem. I only knew because of Ever After High
Also bc it appears in the first game ^^
19:54 "tweedle dum and tweedle dee, who now seem to be working at the asylum"
you have it reversed. in the og game, the tweedles were based on these orderlies. included with the og game, there was a novella from the perspective of doctor wlson. he describes how a cat is always around the asylum (cheshire cat), she talks to her one-eyed rabbit doll (white rabbit), the orderlies bullied alice and she attacked them irl with a spoon (the tweedle boss battle), boojums are staff screaming in her ear, the duchess was a nurse, etc.
another interesting thing about the case book is it includes detailed drawings from alice, which make her out as a very skilled artist depicting what she sees in wonderland. but in madness returns she's only able to draw childish scribbles ):
Consistency isn't a word known to Amerixan McGee it seems.
I would love to see Superhorrorbro discuss about the images for “Alice: Asylum” and what has been given on about it
me too!
Agreed, I am really looking forward to the day ( if it ever comes) where it comes out. I'd love to see his thoughts on it so far
Alice: Asylum?
Especially since nobody's talking about it.
@@nightenday687 the third American mcgee game. There's a brief teaser trailer that was released on TH-cam.
i never knew hiw bittersweet the ending actually is. she had her revenge but succumb to her insanity anyway.
The game suggests that she's not *_insane,_* just... Odd.
She's still able to live a normal life but will always be seen as slightly eccentric by people around her.
@@wendycarter7506 Girl literally be having psychotic episodes in the real world and you saying she is not insane? Nah bro she gone gone.
@@bamshablam5977
PTSD can cause psychotic breaks, it doesn't mean you're crazy.
She is suffering from the PTSD of *_watching her parents burn alive,_* while also being emotionally and psychologically manipulated.
She's not insane. Maybe a little bit crazy, but she's not psychotic.
@@wendycarter7506
Hell, if Otherland was still canon, then it might suggest something otherworldly was triggered inside her...
@@wendycarter7506 I don't think she'll have a normal life. She killed a man, and it was implied before that no one would believe her if she told them why. She literally sacrificed her entire life to rid the world of that psycho. That's why the ending is happy yet sad at the same time. She won, but at what cost? She'll probably spend her entire life in the asylum after the murder is found out.
It's so weird that the dude who started off making levels in Doom ended up making a weird psychological version of Alice in wonderland
What I found very interesting is the fact that Dr. Bumby actually saw Alice transform into her Wonderland persona right before she killed him. Alice's otherworldly experiences may not be entirely in her own mind after all...
You never know. It cud be that hr saw her hostile behaviour and that shocked him.
The dress change only for us players as symbolising that she took matters into her own hands like she does in wonderland
I don't think so. I belive that him seeing the person he _though_ he almost broke, and expects to just go away, while feeling sad and powerless suddenly turning around with murder in eyes was more then enough.
I think what that was, was the developers showing us that for *Alice* she was now merged with the her other self.
I knew this game delved into some heavy topics when I played it a few years ago, but I didn’t realize how much of wonderland is Alice’s personification and symbolism of her trauma. I guess the levels took so long to beat that I barely focused on the story and some of the dialogue just confused me, but man, this game is amazing!
I love that last line that points out Alice had too been neglecting the children in her grief. Your explanation videos are some of the best out there, because you really go into how the story affects everything in it.
I absolutely adored this game.
It reeks of early 2000s Energy.
It didn’t pull no punches. The story was very gripping. The animation was so angelic. Overall a great game
People talk about games now. And how they are so gruesome and violent.
Games in the early 2000 didn’t really get that filter it needed. Which made for a unique and raw experience
Like Alice madness
I love this dark twist.
And representation of trauma
Kinda reminds me of wolf among us.
With the fairytale gone wrong aspect
Another master piece
Dang I forgot that I made this comment. I really went critic mode on this one.
Not going to lie I made myself proud with this review.
Hope you guys feel the same
@@linisin2083 igs. But I expect people seeing among us and going. "Wow. That is relateable!" Or whatever.
@@linisin2083 if you're talking about the in game animation, then a lot of it was weird and wonky.
Figuring out what the doctor was going to use Alice for was...jesus that was dark.
Judging by her time spent as a doll, I think he might've succeeded for a little while.
Well...also it symbolizes the part she played working with him. If she dissociated and he purged that as well is besides the point. She was the kids care taker. "Don't fail us again!" She also has to get over her guilt in whatever form known at the time or not to save them in the end.
FINALLY I have been waiting for another theory to go through about Alice in Wonderland: Madness Returns.
It's really a shame that this amazing game is too underrated.
Gotta admit, that concept art looks badass
I have no words for how beautifully crafted this game is, from the graphics to the storyline and everything in between.
Voice acting is a little odd tho. Couldn't immerse myself with the horrible delivery of some of the characters
@@meriwoo7382 eh, outside of the “ambience” npcs i thought the voice acting was amazing. it’s definitely stylized so it might not be for everyone!
the sequel seems like such a complete story...I wonder what the first game about that the second doesnt go over better
So the first game (American McGee’s Alice) doesn’t have the same over arching story that Alice Madness has. It’s based solely in Wonderland and is more focused on Alice overcoming her guilt from not really being able to do anything to save her family. The sequel retcons quite a bit and adds Alice’s sister who didn’t exist at all in the first game.
@@skyeperez8305
It's not a retcon, Lizzie is a real girl who existed.
In the first Alice: In Wonderland book, the opening chapter specifically mentions Alice's older sister (although she is not named).
The author of the book, Lewis Carrol, based the story on a little girl and her family who he knew personally and was good friends with. This girl's real name *_was_* Alice Liddel, and she was a very real person.
Her older sister was Elizabeth Liddel, Lizzie for short.
The game is based on combining Book Alice with Reality Alice into the same person.
TL;DR, it's not a retcon, she always had a sister, the first game simply never addressed it because it wasn't relevant to the story the first game was telling.
@@wendycarter7506 in a way, the dr is Lewis Corrupted self.
In reality, he created the book just to make a little girl happy, but in the game...
I hate that Dr with a passion
Her father was an amateur photographer but also worked as the dean of Oxford University, well that's one of helluva side job
Hey there Mike! Hope you don’t mind but I made Timestamps for those who want to use them
*Timestamps*
0:00 Intro
0:50 Alice’s Story
2:49 The World of Wonderland
4:18 The Beginning of Madness Returns
5:50 Return to Wonderland
7:01 The Hatter’s Domain
10:14 The Walrus and the Carpenter
13:18 The Caterpillar
15:38 The Queen of Hearts
19:15 The Dollmaker
24:18 The Ending
This game was the stories Zack Snyder was trying to tell in sucker punch
exactly
@@Denise-tw1nz but with a better ending... no innocent girls being unjustly lobotomized in this game. (at least I hope not!)
One thing that I feel that needs to be touched is the last scene with bumby. Could bumby see in his last moments what Alice became or was it just us the player that could see?
It was just the player.
What Bumby saw was her suddenly turn around without warning, and having a cruel look in her eyes.
Both? I interpret the scene as Alice changing to their wonderland persona in the real world, with the clothes change being only a symbol of that mental change for us players. Bumby was surprised because the fragile, feeble, mindwrecked girl changed in a confident, determined woman in front of his eyes. That, and the murderous intent in her eyes did the trick.
Fun fact : there’s an Easter egg in the queen of hearts’ castle, showing a skeleton of the game Psychonauts’ main character Razputin. The fact that this was shown it’s because it’s a special thank to Double Fine productions, video game developers known for their games such as Psychonauts, Grim Fandango and Brütal Legend
I wish this whole story got illustrated into a large, storybook graphic novel because id love to read it over & over!
Same....
I love Alice: Madness return. I'm surprised that I didn't know there was a game before it lol
I don't know if it wasn't hyped as big as Madness Returns, but it is an awesome game.
I wanted to play this series but I could never find the games on sale. Like, at all. Is there any way of playing this series these days?
I think you can get Madness Returns on Steam, but I have no clue on the first one. I live through Let's Players since I'm too poor to afford any games these days.
@@sunshinegamer1981 Unfortunately I can't find the second game on Steam!
If you have Xbox you can get both on game pass
Some thing to note is that the goopy enemies you fight that are covered in baby doll head also appear to be the same group dripping out of the doll maker himself, possibly a more subtle hint at his effect on Alice overall.
Morale of the story: One shrinking bottle per day keeps the doctor away
You really don't like the doctor too close to ya either
@@cherrydragon3120 not really, my parents are doctors,
Can we all give credit to American McGee himself. You can tell he loves this franchise and the story that it originates from 😊.
This game is literally the definition of “snap back to reality”
Oops there goes gravity
"It's A strange game."
Me: It's Wonderland! What would you expect?
I find Alice to be very relatable. I too am not very social, and prefer to dream and fantasize.
Same
i mean she's also criminally insane for a while there so
Have you considered playing Yume Nikki?
@@froufroudeluxe why do you ask? sorry, but I'm curious.
@@LordZadrenoss I related to your comment, Yume Nikki is one of those games that really speaks to a lot of us introverted folks who prefer dreaming
The smile I had on my face when Alice pushed Bumby into the train… you’d get me confused for the Cheshire Cat!
We are ALL mad down here in Wonderland, Alice. Even you.
Still waiting for someone to make a movie/series/book about this masterpiece
Apparently, there's is a Series called "Alice:Otherlands"
It's seemingly a sequel of sorts to the games
They're making a show
When wonderland and London merge at the end which is in sharp contrast to the rest of the game where she dips in and out it highlights how Alice has finally completely lost her mind through the trauma of releasing suppressed memories. Alice had a decision to live in denial and keep ahold of her sanity or delve deeper into wonderland to collect the truths buried in her subconscious by her therapist and her defence mechanisms to avenge her family. She won and got justice but at the expense of her sanity which she fought so hard for on the first game. The story telling of this game is an underrated masterpiece.
You should do a play through of Fran Bow. Then do an explaining video. That would be kinda cool.
and Little Miss Fortune
@@catacc. yea little misfortune would be cool too
Yes! I would love for him to do one on Fran Bow
We all need to get this enough likes, so we can see it happen!let's go people we got a job to do
@@catacc. and OMORI