Even though she was in a religion that I don’t agree with, I think she was a true believer. She knew God and she is resting. I believe she will get her rewards from the hands of Jesus. I can’t say it the same about Lori and Chad, because I am not sure they can repent, and without genuine repentance, not of them will see God.
I think the only reason Chad's kids weren't deemed "dark", is because they're all adult, and therefore independant (unlike poor Tylee and JJ). The people deemed "dark", were people who stood in the way of Chub and Whori's, repulsive "romance".
If they had life insurance, the obvious beneficiaries would be their spouses. Not profitable for Chad and Lori. But also, JJ wasn't initially dark, later he was. Alex became dark just before his own death too, possibly because he begun to wobble, and they knew he may talk. But it shows that Chad's kids may have easily become dark in the near future, should they disturb Lori or Chad in anyway. Or if they figured out some way to make it profitable without raising too many questions.
Lori is always in charge. She eventually would have killed Chad and led their followers with "Chad's direction" using the "portal". She is a black widow.
@@robine9973 I doubt this highly. Lori Vallow Daybell intended to kill those children. Those children were not able to change the course of their fate as long as Lori had control of their lives.
Lauren mentions that Chad declared Tylee "dark" within 3 days of meeting Lori. THREE DAYS? Bashing someone's kids is never cool. Bashing someone's kids after 3 days is questionably bizarre, leading one to believe it's even more possible that Chad and Lori knew each other before the date that's been reported.
Hmmmm not really. Haven’t you noticed almost everyone who isn’t trying to be …..nice…..has mentioned how difficult, annoying & unlikeable Tylee was? several people in taped convos (didn’t kno they were being taped so usually more honest) that she was never in a good mood, always surly & cranky ….on and on…. Now I don’t agree with these people I didn’t know her…..even if she was beyond annoying & no one liked her…..obviously she didn’t deserve to die and die by her mothers orders So disgusting BUT you haven’t seriously noticed this? I sure did and have wondered at it. THAT is why I think he said she’s dark within days. He saw what a problem she was gonna be, probably cuz she spoke her mind and recall she was married and I think like most teenagers she got snotty and cocky. A
@@6Haunted-Days I believe Lori influenced how people saw Tylee. Not to mention, some believe that Lori was poisoning her. Tylee had a myriad of medical issues that doctors could never figure out.
It seems like Chad was actually "getting back" at all the cheerleaders that turned him down as a teenager by hooking up with Lori, who was a cheerleader and used her looks to hook up with men with financial means for her "lifestyle", including Chad. It's always a two-way street.
I agree. Lori was a trophy of sort to Chad. Back in high school or college none of the cheerleaders would have looked at him twice. Lori always used her looks to get what she wanted. But the funny thing about Chad, HE DIDN’T HAVE ANY KIND MONEY WITHOUT TAMMYS LIFE INSURANCE. He wasn’t wealthy. Tammy was the only one that was working to get a regular paycheck. He lived a very modest lifestyle and in a very modest house. He could only afford luxuries (like Hawaii) with poor Tammy’s life insurance. That was fast running out when Lori was arrested. The life insurance from poor Charles was foiled when he changed it thank goodness. And I think absolutely that Lori and Chad would have had control of Brandon’s million dollar life insurance payout if the hit on him had been successful. And there’s no telling who and how many people would have fallen victim to their dark zombie ratings for financial gain. If they had not been stopped when they were
I agree that to Chad Lori was a trophy wife, she was the LDS trophy wife that he could never get....it is surprising to me that when Lori had Charles Vallow to financially support her that she didn't spring for a good plastic surgeon to fix her enormous nose...seriously why didn't she ever get her nose done? She just isn't that pretty....
I agree, but I will add, had Chad not been a publisher with her same obsession as hers. And the promise to publish her books, make her famous, and make her a spiritual leader with "power over thousands," she'd never look at him twice. She never saw Chad, only what he had achieved and she could get from him. He had plans to replace Julie Row with Lori. Julie is marking millions bilking her followers, imagine Chad controlling that lucrative market with someone who can fool so many and wow them. He too saw status and dollar signs when he looked at her. For this reason I don't think either of them was in fact in love with eachother. I actually think that they were infatuated with the idea and promise of what they could get from eachother.
Chad is not humbled, he's antisocial reclusive with a lot of pinned up aggression. It seems it was expressed in the way Tylee Ryan was murdered and her being dismembered and burned. Its ritual or displaced
There is phyic on utune that said exactly what happen to those kids and this was way before they were found by the police found them. And saw it was alex and lorie and chat was on the phone with lorie and alex didnt like how messy it was so that why jay jay didnt get dismembered.can you believe thats what bothered him. Not wjat he was doing to those poor kids.
I think that Chad shot one round into Tylee before he butchered her....he felt a need to cover for three things that morning in the text he sent to Tammy...the bon fires, the disturbed earth in the Pet Cemetery, and a gun shot. I worry that poor Tylee either woke up or moaned, a faint pulse was possibly detected so Chad Daybell shot one round into her because he is a MONSTER It also ritualisticly binded him into their evil Satanic deed.
Very ritualistic. I couldn't figure out the "disorganized" resemblance of Tylees body, to them so carefully place JJ as he was. It's ritualistic alright. Tylee represents not being resurrected. JJ was prepared to be resurrected.
I was a trauma nurse for 10 yrs and was faced with death frequently, some deaths were more tragic than others. I would never say that this in any way makes desensitized to the point that I would kill without issues, I wouldn’t kill someone at all period. However, dealing with these issues so frequently did have an emotional impact on me without a doubt, but it has nothing to do with death itself. During those situations it is necessary to separate your personal emotions from the situation so that you can do your job well. If you allow yourself to become emotional during a traumatic situation you may lose your ability to critically think during a highly emotionally charged event. The impact this had on me was more the fact that I was so good at shutting this down that I found myself having difficulty bringing emotions up at all when not at work and it took a few years after not working as a trauma nurse for that normal emotional response to come back. It wasn’t that I didn’t feel grief and sadness but while other people were crying, I was thinking, “so what’s our next move, what do we do next to fix this.” It’s difficult to express in words what this feels like and it may not be something every trauma nurse or any nurse for that fact, experiences, but it was what I experienced. At no point, however, did it ever make me think that killing any living thing was OK. If anything, it made LIFE very precious to me.
First, THANK YOU Dr John for remembering today’s somber anniversary. I was a First Responder, had been working at a FireHouse on Long Island for several months, trying to put their EMS program back together. I wasn’t able to catch this live because the psychiatrist who did our debriefings and counseling afterwards; went down the list of everyone he had counseled..at least those of us who are still alive, and called us.😔 (we lost quite a few to post-9/11 illnesses due to the toxins they insisted didn’t exist). We talked for about an hour…so much has happened since we last talked 10 years ago. Second, Lauren, can we clone your husband? 😁 Thank you to both of you, for continuing a professional analysis of this case. PS I’m ordering some of that Merch for MY “Delicate Venus Flytraps” for Christmas…😂. (I gotta admit though, when I first heard that the first thing that came to mind was…well, let’s just say it was on a talk show about women’s pleasure back in the 90’s…😂)
Thank you, dear Elaine, for sharing some of your story! You are a BRAVE WOMAN!!! Did your cancer come as a result of 911?? I hope someday I can meet you; I wish you would write a book! Thank you for all you've done, and all you will do! I'm proud to be Your friend...from Utah, Kathe
Thank you Elaine, for everything. I'm on long Island. I've lost a few friends from the cleanup 😢 I will never forget that day along with the continuing aftermath. There were a lot of heroes that day. Some were already heroes doing their jobs and others became heroes that day and still others became heroes in the days, weeks and months that followed ❤❤❤❤❤
Great commentary, both of you. I agree with so many in your community - the goal is to work hard to stay balanced, treat others fairly and be a decent person, not to be exalted. The ones with a need to be admired and exalted have always worried me. Lori always seemed to have this need just as much as Chad did.
I could not bring myself to listen to all of Chad’s presentation. It reminded me of a nerd giving a presentation in high school..I honestly don’t get how anyone would believe anything he said. Dr John is spot on about his narcissism and living in a fabricated fantasy world.
I sure wish you two would record more episodes of your podcast….I binged it when I found it…an episode a day while walking my dog! Would love to listen to discussions like this while walking!
I think one of the reasons Chad’s children are so slavish in their support for him is he has made them such a major part of his future prophecies. They have grown up thinking that they are a special part of the second coming. Im guessing that just like Tammy if one of them had rebelled against him and his beliefs he would have reluctantly have sacrificed that child on the alter for his version of the second coming. As much as his now adult children have been indoctrinated in his apocalyptic fantasy some of them may be dangerous as well. Certainly they all need therapy.
Exactly what I said when I saw them on 48hrs. Those kids would do well to reach out to someone…perhaps Dr John? I fear with them being so involved in his dangerous delusions and in denial of his involvement in this case; does not bode well for a healthy future..
What is disturbing to me is that at least two of the children are married and their spouses haven't pulled them back. Emma strikes me because she is married and lived in very close proximity to Chad and Tammy. I think she is most definitely a true believer. It seems a bit harsh but I think it's true..... The husband is lucky because he might have been the next spouse with a life insurance policy to be deemed dark. My husband says that in similar circumstances he might still have married me but would have moved across the country. Definitely wouldn't have moved only across the road.
@@6-kids-uk GREAT point about the spouses of these kids..my goodness, if they are based in reality, can you imagine how terrified they must have been? I REALLY hope that something clicks in these kids and they get some help. The more I think about their interview, their involvement with their Dad’s books, their denial of reality with their own mother?😬
Elizabeth Stallings… I think you are spot on. His adult children have ALWAYS been portrayed as playing a important part of his different belief system. And if one or more of them had started to dissent with Chad about anything, I think he would RELUCTANTLY have sacrificed them. He wouldn’t want to but I absolutely think he would have at some point in time.
I absolutely enjoy the commentary of Dr. John. Very educational and insightful. Makes me want to go back to college. What a wonderful match you two make.
UGH, I had to struggle to watch the whole thing. Can't imagine what part of that turned Lori on. At least you put bonus pics at the end!! Thanks to you both!!
I thought the same thing!! Where’s the charisma I’ve heard about?? All I heard was a very boring, simple man trying to peddle his make believe books as non-Fiction.
I think she read his books and had an image of him in her mind and saw his platform and was a beautiful, delicate flower then Venus fly trapped him lmao 🤣
@@rachelcoloradomy3kidz778 yes, like she thought he was some famous author, or something. I just do t get it? Can’t help but feel, though, that she is extremely diabolical and manipulative. Question, if it was the perfect storm coming together when they met? I’ll never forget Melanie Gibb saying when she introduced them, and they first met, that they were talking about things far removed from the LDS church doctrine , and not for public consumption.
One thing that shows us a glimpse into the heart of Chad Daybell is a story I heard about in one of his books, wherin he noticed a fairly new grave was bieng visited by a clearly grieving young lady (which turned out to be the daughter of the decedant) every single day at exactly the same time,, and how he intentionally roped off access to the area of that grave everyday shortly before she arrived, leaving the poor girl unable to visit her mother. He said in this book he was disgusted by this girl and her stupid.crying and she was irritating him and his peace & quiet in his job at the cemetery and he rejoiced in watching try, day after day, to get in,, only to be turned away. Chad doesn't give a CHIIT about anyone and is FULLY capable of lying with a straight face about telling a mother and newly married partner that her 2 youngest kids were possessed and needed to die. And he relished in being able to have power over that poor grieving girl. He's a monster.
That is horrendous,what an evil heartless thing to do to someone who is grieving. Why would anyone who reads that story follow this man??? How are his readers and followers not disgusted by this???? Pure evil!!!
It was worth struggling through Chad's talk (though I didn't quite make it through the whole thing) to hear this wonderful discussion by my two favorite podcasters. Thank you :)
Hi all, I'm a 44 year old stay at home mom from ky. I so enjoy listening to u & dr. Jon. I'm listening to all the older stuff on daybell. Lauren & dr.jon make all of us smarter!! Keep up the hard work guys!!
Most T.V. Preachers, we know of in the past, CRY when they preach; banking on the fact that the audiences will empathies with the tears. It's a selling hook.
Eric Smith does it when Julie Rowe speaks (She makes me cry as well but not in the same way). It seems to be a thing with these people to show how sincere they are or how the speaker has moved them. Chad seemed to recover very quickly from his "emotional" testimony.
Exactly! I keep wanting to know why that wasn’t brought up to the kids in the latest interview when they say their father was framed. Especially after there were NO raccoons found buried there. How could anyone not see Chads involvement.
I don’t think he believed it. I think he wanted to believe but he twisted Christianity to suit himself. Though I hear you saying Narcassists have a mental maps see themselves as very important.
@@kimberlynance2711 They ie Chads children are in denial. They don’t want to see Daddy Chaddi as anything but angelic!! There is a wake up call, with this love letter to Lori. It’s very damning.
What gave Chad away for me was the fact he didn’t think it was strange that the kids weren’t around for all that time, and how he never questioned Lori about where they were.
And yet, Chad has a college degree and lots of people with college degrees bought and read the books he published and wrote. I think this has a lot to say about our educational system. Mormonism especially but evangelical Christianity as well are very heavy on feelings over fact and therefore I feel quintessentially American. Our educational system in this country is designed in so many ways to weed out critical thinkers and reward those who never question. It would be amazing to see where our society could be if we would just fix that one problem.
Oh yah, the “leaders and public SERVANTS” don’t want us to think for ourselves, or know our rights. Easier to get away with what they ARE getting away with. They are robbing our grandchildren blind, but we let them give themselves raises with no protests.
While I agree that our youth are being indoctrinated, hindered the capacity to develop autonomy/discernment etc The rampant problems in our education system has everything to do with the cultist ideology of marxism & absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
I think Chad knows this isn't all true. I think he wanted to be more than he was and more than his brothers friends were. This goes back to the screwing up of his application to do his degree/masters (not sure which). Being a visionary was a way of equalizing the field and boosting himself to exceed that academic level by being something even better (in his thinking). I think he knows he's faking it all.
But in a small way he was getting there. Lori was going to help him to do more fairytale books and they would’ve make more money. They were both in the path for success, if they did not killed the kids, they probably could’ve get there. All because they could not wait a little longer.
Theirs a word for that EGO. HE really knew he didn't have "Special Powers " or a mission . But when Lori showed up all flirty and he realized she acted like she believed his crap, he told her she was a goddess and Special and 2 ego equal murderers.
I am LDS and I can attest first hand that some people (including an individual in my own family), get so wrapped up in "spiritual" things that they forget the here and now. This life, including the day-to-day living, helping out, caring for the home and the family, are also spiritual. But these basic things can (and do) get neglected when one wanders too far off into "eternity" and it can hurt the family and one can become self-absorbed and narcissistic. Of course, this can happen in any religion. One thing I have learned for myself is that when your personal religious convictions get in the way of you being the best and being there for your family, you need to reassess your priorities. If the second greatest commandment is to love one another, then we need to be there and be present for one another. In fact I recall an LDS President warn the Latter-Day Saints to avoid becoming "religionists". I think that is very wise counsel. Had Chad and Lori followed that counsel, they would have avoided the needless pain they have caused so many.
You are wise, and yes, any religion can get people more worry of church than family. Your family is priority. God comes first, not the church and the duties of church. I am Protestant, and I see people looking for spotlight, it is horrible.
Am I the only one that thinks Chad's 'insecurities' in his speech is just another manipulation tactic to maybe convince his audience that he is meek, unthreatening and humble to then come out like a vulture on the other side?
You’re not alone! It takes a lot for people like that to cry genuinely… when you have no true empathy. Even for himself there’s no true empathy… it’s just self absorption and selfishness. To want for yourself, is not self love.
Yes, I agree with you, and that can make him be more believable to some women. Those that like it to think they can fix man or be nurture towards them.
Chad is not convincing to himself or any normal person. He is totally selling his garbage lies for money and praise. "Ooh everyone looks up to me so I am important" is what I get from him.
I agree with you ☝️I go back and forth thinking do Chad really believe that crap he was feeding his people or just saw away to make some money 🤔 what he did was very dangerous with hus extreme beliefs. I still don't understand how anyone believed what Chad was saying.
I still say - for him to be so “religious,” he seems to lack much discernment. Although I’m aware one can be “spiritual” without being “religious,” but neither tells us about his relationship with Christ. If these outer dimensional things, or NDEs did happen to him, then he should know that just because they were supernatural doesn’t mean they were of God, or anything to do with light. It says in the Bible that Satan will disguise himself as light. Did he have any “revelation” about this? Or does anyone even know? If he didn’t have confirmation about the things he was being told or shown from “the veil” or the other side of it (?) then when his first “prediction” or “prophecy” didn’t come to pass, he should’ve very much sought confirmation at that point. My guess is that he had probably been given several chances to do so, & maybe he even got it but it wasn’t what he wanted it to be, so he ignored it. Accepting confirmation that this was coming from “the dark side,” would’ve “killed his buzz,” so to speak. I guess he fell for lies, evil, or whatever because he was getting the thing(s) he needed (desired) most- attention, acceptance, women... Satan will use people who are easy prey. I can honestly say that his speech would never do it for me, even if it was on a different topic, even if I didn’t know about this case. It’s his lack of confidence, and it’s almost like he’s trying to win people based on pity vs. the joy, pride or enthusiasm in what he’s trying to sell. Bottom line for me is that it’s scary to think people are being so easily sold based on this type of presentation. Ok, now I’m going to listen to you guys! Yay!
Dear Formula Botanica. This podcast absolutely resonated with me. I am currently a FB graduate and was working on my final project just this morning writing my product story so that it aligns with my ethos. You will not believe it, the focus words for my ethos are "gentle, kind, loving, compassionate, sustainable and ethical." Whatever I formulate from now on must be aligned with these words. Thank you so much for these podcasts. I have learned so much from them. Kind regards, Michelle Wiese
Thank you for your fascinating discussion and insights. I’m a little behind here in New Zealand but catching up. Human behaviour is endlessly fascinating so having informed discussion with your academic insights Dr John is priceless.
Lauren and John, I’ve been a member since right after C Daybell verdict, so I’m catching up on replay. Simply love the professionalism, humor, compassion, and detail you bring to each show. 🥰
Thank you Dr John and Lauren. I am always working when you do these lives so I always have to watch the replays. But I truly enjoy your insight! Really helps to understand a little better.
Hi, I just wanted to say I loved your overview at the beginning discussing narcissism, psychopathy & even Machiavellianism which I wasn’t aware of prior to today. Your on point but understated examples to illustrate these were fantastic as well… I think you’ve won me over as a die hard follower from here on out 😊😊😊 Thanks
Chad said that his father was his editor. So his parents were aware of his perverse LDS beliefs. Chad also said that his children acknowledged his beliefs in his books. Chad previously said that he often wrote about using his daughter as a model in his books. Could Chad's kids have abetted him in any way? Maybe by not calling 911 or refusing an autopsy, or moving Tammy's body? Maybe Chad's kids covered for him while he was seeing Lori. Making excuses for him etc.???
If my Mom died early I would want an autopsy for the sake of my children, and heading off inherited issues. Daybell kiddos...♡ They know better than anyone probbobly what the truth is. It would be incredibly hard not to hold onto the only parent you have left.
I wonder how Tammmy put up with Chad??? I'd like Dr. John to touch on this....I think she had to live in her own fantasy world to even get by, day to day!
No to take away from Dr. John, I was watching another TH-camr he is a psychologist his name is Dr Grande and he spoke of that and he didn't think Chad and Lori had it he just thought they were oli and fire
I notice he speaks of HIS children with no mention of Tammy. Also I don't see any mention of his peculiar walk which I noticed in court. Is that kind of self-conscious gait indicative of anything? Something very creepy about Chad. Boring speaker.
I have to revisit all these podcasts and interviews from time to time regarding the daybell and vallow case. It's riveting, i hear things that i didn't really hear or catch on to the 1st or 2nd time of listening. I love this channel. ❤
I think he lies and then feeds off of the beliefs and adoration and acceptance of others in what he is saying and then it somehow solidifies into his own belief I've seen something like it when someone who secretly knows better than to lie, then finds others who network with that and makes it acceptable and real...eventually off the deep end into, despite all evidence that an outsider would point out, they become staunch in what they believe that flies in the face of reality. When down deep they still know somewhere it's crap. But to admit that would have to accept the consequences of the ego deflation...they cannot do that because it would in essence destroy them.
You just described a guy called Jason, his fb page is 'Joy Rains' he believes he is Jesus and is the new leader of the cult 'Love has won' his fb page is farcical lol
Yes, this day is very sad.... We all remember where we were when we learned about the World Trade Center. God bless all those who lost their lives that day and their families.
DR JOHN, I really don't envy your job. If I had been at this event, I would probably leave early. You surely meet some interesting people! I love getting your perspective. You and Lauren are awesome together!! Keep it up!
Personally I think Chad's beliefs came from his imagination into his decision to make them reality. It more than likely comes from the fact that he feels so inadequate as a person. He probably had a strong fantasy life.
I can help you break apart Jason Mow’s self glorified resume that’s so embellished! I’m retired Army and I know for a fact there is a bunch of embellishments and some straight lies. Let me know if you’re interested.
He came to my city and our Mormon friends invited our son to go hear him speak. I told my husband to say no, and why we said no. One of the friends looked him up and didn’t have his son go, and the other one didn’t care and let his kid go anyway. Mow is super sketchy.
It was Chads beliefs that attracted Lori. He had to keep building on it. Make it more and more dramatic. The more he added the more Lori was attracted. He always wanted women to adore him.
It's like he allowed his imagination to unfold with stories that gave him things he didn't have, like authority and access to women who were hot his wife. You can see the pull of that for him- it'd take some pretty good critical thinking to get himself not to give credence to his own fantasies. And I agree, John, that critical thinking is not his strong area.
Melanie Gibb did not care for Tylee. Another woman in the family also said something about Tylee. Was it Adam's wife who said Tylee was a mean spirited person? I'm wondering if Melanie Gibb told Chad about Tylee, and said negative things about her early on, making Chad to believe she was a dark spirit.
Or Lori could have said something because nobody argues with mom like a 16 year old girl. Normally they are the queen of the heavy sigh and eye roll every time you open your mouth. Lori could have complained and Chad probably jumped on that like white on rice.
By far, Hidden True Crime has the best series of podcasts I’ve found. I love the psychological knowledge Dr John shares, combined with Lauren’s understanding of the Mormon faith, w/journalists abilities. I think the interviews have also helped explain the cult rabbit hole some members have gone down but what I cannot get my mind around is...Chad Daybell. At best he is an uninteresting minion. How do we get from this recording to killing children & burying them in his back yard, and murdering the mother of his children? I know the whole sheep in wolf in clothing theory but something more is off. I know it’s illogical but I feel like he has this evil element I can’t articulate or shake...creeps me out.
Great job on compiling and editing the info .The questions are fantastic and the answers and insight from Dr John are great.Well done guys ☄️interesting all round and very thought provoking.
Hi Lauren and dr. John. I left a message on the wrong comment section I believe so I'm going to do it again. First of all listening to Chad is like listening to a Dullard Potato Head. I have a question Doctor John. What type of treatments do you think they are using to so-call restore Lori back to competency for the trial. As far as I'm concerned she was totally competent to manipulate through her world and to do the evil things she did. Back to the question. What do you think they are doing with Lori? Thank you guys so much for a great evening. I'm thankful I was able to stay awake listening to Chad. Lauren you bring so much to the table and I really love your sensibilities. Thank you guys again so much I really look forward to seeing and being with you in the next one. Oh yes One more thing. If Chad knows even the Slightest thing about the Bible, he would know clearly about where the new Jerusalem is. And you guessed it, it's not Missouri. So he is implying he knows more than God. Hmmm.
Legally, incompetency to stand trial is unrelated to the mental state of the defendant at the time the crimes were committed. It is possible she had a psychotic break. I couldn't say for sure if she is malingering or not.
Narcissists also isolate their victims, he wanted everyone in Laurie’s life OUT so of course they were all “dark” and needed eliminated, the kids were competition of her time. Narcissists are jealous by nature it is one of their darkest traits because it is what drives them to be as evil as they are.
The movie Jason was involved in is called Speak No Evil in which children turn into zombies. You can see an interview with him speaking about this on Annie Cushing's YT channel, Annielytics.
Chads family is basically Mormon fundamentalist... culture. Lori's family uses Mormon fundamentalists culture for different ways. Did you know She's also a distant related of another Mormon murder, Joseph Powell. His wife Susan is still missing.
This question is for Lauren, the journalist. Regarding the question someone asked which included all the questions that 48 Hours might’ve asked… Wouldn’t CD’s kids have been prepped before they were interviewed on air? For instance, I’m sure the kids had some “off limits” topics. And could they have been involved in the editing, or would they be allowed to do this, or to view it before it aired? I was a reporter/writer for a newspaper, and my questions had to meet the interviewee’s approval; although it wasn’t a “rule” we had to show them the copy before it went to print. I don’t know if there’s a blanket rule for TV, or if it just depends... Anyway, whatever the case, I would assume the questions asked had to meet approval, the source of that approval being John Prior (Again, I’m assuming.) 🤨 Thank you, Lauren, & Dr. John! This is so very good & helpful for so many reasons. One is that it keeps some of us from going off the rails when it comes to our own “analysis” of CD, LV, & others involved in the case. At the same time, we get expert opinions leading us to our own “critical thinking!”
I really want to read Chad Daybell’s books, just out of curiosity, but I don’t want him to get any money from me! So I’m glad you’re talking about them some. Love your show! You two are so cool together! I’m a super fan! 🙏🏼
Hi dr John, love your work, I’m interested to know what you think of the modern phenomenon of social media and the pile on, where people just readily condemn people, also the contemporary common over use of the term narcissist, usually in the context of an ex partner? Thanks
Shelly Jakes - Great question! Perhaps folie à plusieurs, even?! I think the mass of people who genuinely believe in some of these teachings, Chad's and otherwise, could be even more immense than we originally thought. However, I also think Chad is more of a Machiavellian than some give him credit for.
I have had premonitions my whole life. They never served a specific purpose because it's too hard to discern them from normal worries or thoughts. The only meaning I can really assign to them is that I pick up on other people's energy, whether they are stuck in an elevator, having a baby, or unfortunately being murdered, which was what happened to my best friend, I can either see it before during or after it happens. I can't imagine going around assigning any meaning to them or feeling like I am some elite person or that I have some authority to lead other people. I actually have spent my whole life trying to explain them away and yet drawing some comfort in knowing there is a spiritual realm that is close to us. Unfortunately I think they all got wrapped up in magical thinking and they fueled each others fires and delusional beliefs and it all ended up just being an excuse for whatever served them.
His low key way of speaking and crying is very common among Mormon speakers/leaders. Sometimes it seems like it’s even faked at times in order to make the audience feel emotional.
I could only get through 16 minutes of Chad Daybell's 45 minute speech. I couldn't help feeling that only a particular audiance would be interested in being there in person . I couldn't connect with what he was saying. I applaud Lauren and Dr John for listening to the whole thing. Thanks for sharing your analysis on You Tube.
I don't get how or why Chad sits like a stone and basically does not move AT ALL for long spaces of time in these court videos that we've seen. I just wonder what kind of weirdness this is, what it's called, and where it comes from - is he spacing out, or is he meditating with open eyes? It's almost non-human-like behaviour.
I know right, how convenient....also notice in his rubric where he lists people's past lives those surrounding Christ are all people from Chad's friend circle or current LDS leaders...like out of all the people in the world it's his buddies yeah right...
I do have a question and using Daybell as an example for this purpose. With Machiavellianism traits in people (or personality?) they can appear to understand the emotions and feelings of others but generally lack the empathy to actually connect and/or think they do but don’t. Does this mean they could successfully have long-term relationships with the appearance of being emotionally connected and invested etc and maintain these long term (until their need to manipulate and/or get ahead interferes and blows that appearance up)? Daybells marriage to Tammy and family life certainly has that appearance where as with Lori they were limited by time (thank god the rest of us say) but it does have the appearance of more a relationship of a means to an ends (with purported feelings as well 😊) Lori being emotionally unstable at best may mistake his appearance of understanding her as him actually empathising etc…. I have another example (not personally applicable to me just something I came across in my own work )…..
For example (Chad and Tammy): A husband and wife together 10yrs (5m), emotionally connected and loving, 2 kids, built a new house, all the material appearance their income cant meet (the usual). Involves himself in the clandestine manufacturing of large scale prohibited drugs AFTER telling his wife of the ‘opportunity’ to which she begged him to promise he wouldn’t but still did so behind her back and maintained he was going to his work each day as a builder, all went well until his grandiose plans came crashing down due to the fault of others (aka the police). There also existed (at least appeared to exist) an expectation the wife who was left in debt, jobless and single with 2 young kids and a mortgage to maintain an expectation it was not incredible for him to Expect the wife to carry the torch for ‘them’ while he went to jail for 10 years over it but that when he got out they could resume where they left off and move forward (including plans to take eldest overseas, buy land for a farm etc etc). I am conscious some of this grandiosity is also possibly part-cover for his own depression or masking etc. but no real understanding of their financial conundrum being in the negative and getting worse not better, no comprehension of the trauma caused to the wife, no comprehension that where he is will create serious issues between him and his kids despite them being excited to see him when little. All those that seem to know him pre-lockup overlook his criminality (incl. wife’s family to some degree) citing ‘he’s such a nice guy, do anything for anyone and he’s too dumb to know what he got himself into’ I’m not asking you to diagnose or solve as I said this is just something I came across in my work and has always stayed with me. But, machiavelianism struck me… do you see the potential for those traits in this scenario above? I never doubted he loved his wife and family and probably was a great guy, his wife said she never wanted for anything (clearly she now wishes she was left wanting) but to me there was more than ‘too dumb’ behind his drive to betray his wife the love of his life in order to pursue his clearly grandiose plans to provide and live successfully as a Fulltime unqualified chemical cook! Plus the weird entitlement to expect the wife would maintain the fort for them until he got home!! I don’t know how they ended up I think he is close to his release date but that story has never left me and I think it’s because I’m trying to understand the husbands thinking Please help me put this to med 😂😂 Thanks 😊
*in first post Chad and Tammy had that appearance, so then his actions with lori and even his growing need for world domination and to continue his profession of burying corpses appear to fall into that machiavelianism trait (as opposed to other partners who commit adultery which is often very driven by personal or relationship communication lapses or emotional dysfunction and ends in a dramatic and highly emotional way) no emotion or dysfunction with him and when Tammy interfered by becoming suss (or risk of being told) he couldn’t risk his plans failing so he got rid of the problem (Tammy) and he didn’t do that to ‘be with Lori’ that I’m sure about
I don't think that Chad daybell had near-death experiences or prophetic visions of end times. He's a milquetoast guy who wanted to be special, and did everything he could to attract and keep Lori. I think Alex had brain damage from his injury as a child and got sucked into her and Chad's ridiculous ideas. He thought he was doing right and in the end he realized what he had done. I think there's some kind of poison involved that he used to kill himself and that was also used on Joe, Lori's earlier husband.
Definitely thought it was interesting that he 100 percent believes that Rexburg will be the temporary headquarters for the LDS church during the apocalypse. That's why they all started moving there. SUPER INTERESTING. Always thought Idaho mormons were even more weird than the normal mormon. It makes sense now why they all move there.
Your interview with Heather Daybell is the most insightful in analyzing Chad Daybell. I don't give him that much credit. I think if Lori hadn't come along, he would still be living his life with his wife and kids.
You see the lack of love of himself though we know much more now after the trial. But isn’t that.where a narcissist begins and lives in fantasy good call
Reminds me of my BIL 1:06:45 with the narcissism. He claimed he was doing his own interpretation of the Bible because the scholars has it wrong....less than a year later my sister is dead. Chad reminds me a lot of him .
Chad played the quiet "humble" guy, but it was an act. His sister in law said he never asked anyone else how they were, was always talking about himself, trying to impress others and seemed competetive with his brother. I think people who lack empathy and emotion can be quiet and appear to be calm and cool, but there is a difference between mastering emotion and lacking emotion. I think he was a copy cat. He saw what Julie was doing, and realized he could feign near death experiences and visions to gain followers. Of course he was at the very top of his own rating system that he used to manipulate others to kill innocent and truly superior humans to him. Hes also not that smart to think he could bury his girlfriends kids in his own yard and get away with it. His "I buried a raccoon" text shows how dumb he really is. The only faith he had was in his ability to lie and manipulate others because he had been getting away with it his whole life. Except his sil saw right through him, so of course he had to discredit her to the family. I have to wonder if Tylee did too, so of course she had to be removed. I think people who lie to that level do try to convince themselves of their own lies to be able to lie more effectively. He also was an underachiever who knew there is something wrong with him. He knows he relies on lies to appear successful. He knows he doesnt care about other humans and deep down knows he is actually worse than most people he meets. So when people started following and looking up to him and he was able to get a woman he was attracted to, he convinced himself he was actually superior to others, and could be the next Joseph Smith. A lot of narcissists in LDS seem to decide they have these visions and could even be the next prophet. And why stop there. Maybe they could actually be the second coming of Christ. David Koresh or Warren Jeffs did the exact same thing. And then the ATF shows up, or the FBI finds all your child brides, or the local police find those dismembered kids in your yard and you come right back down to earth and remember you are actually a socipath. That call with Lori said everything. While Lori was still in total denial and certain the end days were near and they would take their royal thrones in heaven, Chad knew the jig was up. He slinked to his car and actually tried to flee, because he is not smart and thought he still might be able to get away with it. He dropped Lori like yesterdays news and threw her under the bus while she tried to lock eyes with jail makeup in the court room and started to unravel. Dont get me wrong. They both have a disregard for others and human life. They both have narcissistic traits, a God complex while those around them shared a group delusion. They are both malignent narcissists. ASPD and NPD are a part of the same spectrum. They both lack empathy. How aware of their personality disorders they are is unknown. They are both manipulive liars so its hard to tell. As someone who worked with many toddlers with attachment disorders, I can tell you those personality disorders start in early childhood. Attachment disorders happen when an infant or toddler lacks at least one attached caregiver who consistently responds to their needs and positively interacts with them. I have seen it and its not a pretty picture. The first three years of life are also when we learn social skills, including the big, multi part one called empathy. Some learn how to predict others behavior but lack emotional empathy and compassion. After three its pretty much too late. There are some miraculous exceptions, but the more isolated the infant, the more malformed their brain, the greater the social and emotional deficits and possibly other developmental delays. When I see Chad I see a silent toddler standing alone watching his family interact, too emotionally neglected to even know how to be included. I see a kid who adapted manipulative behaviors to get attention. I see the same in Lori, except with stronger cognitive empathy. But she doesnt care about people, not even her own kids. Niether does Chad. People tend to preserve their own DNA, especially if your kids give you a sense of power and control. Lori didnt even have that. They have a similarly severe combination of personality disorders and this led them to think they were "soulmates." They were actually unwanted children who grew up to be lost souls. They are both extremely dangerous, especially together, and are exactly where they belong. Niether of them know love, so they cant know God, and for that they deserve our pity.
After hearing that Chad said Tylee was dark, three days after he made this speech, makes me think he was involved with Lori before this recording.... I do think Chad suffered from depression from time to time especially when he travelled as a young man, possibly had a breakdown... I do believe he is deluded, and definitely a narcissistic psociopath, in my opinion... Extremely dangerous, and there is no doubt he would have got rid of his own children if they got in his way, but they were all adults, living independently... He got Tammy's insurance money and murdered her in cold blood with his son in the same house without a thorough.... This was very interesting thank for all your hard work.. Regards from Ireland 🇮🇪
I grew up in the mainstream LDS church in the 70's, and the prophet was going to tell us when to pack up our year's supply of food, water, and ammo and walk to Missouri to prepare for the 2nd coming. At that point in time, the church was still teaching that the 2nd coming would be in OUR lifetime. My older brother's patriarchal blessing had this claim. So Missouri had great significance for Chad and many of the people in his audience. He didn't just pick that spot by throwing a dart on a map. However, I never heard about Rexburg being a gathering place. PS Sorry about the Utes, Lauren. I was rooting for them too, only because I hate BYU. 😄
2 Timothy 3 1-27. Speaks exactly what is going on with this case and so many more in the world today.I just read it again tonight and it speaks volumes to me.
I think that he has told lies so many times that he believed them to a degree and could become emotional when discussing it because it furthered his cause, which in my opinion was to have more people believe what he was spewing. His family BELIEVED him. His dad, his wife, his children. His children still do! It made him, in my opinion, feel powerful which he probably never had before. He seemes boring. Definitely not a handsome man and probably thought that he deserved more.. So he wrote his books and met people like Julie Row, who is spewing her own lies . They basically had an unspoken bond, " I'll back your lies if you back mine." So his feelings of power and pride probably grew. He was doing podcasts and speeches and coordinating his own book signings. Then....he met Lori, who was introduced to him as a FAN!. As a true believer! He probably felt almost high and euphoric to have, (in his mind,) this beautiful woman, believe everything he said! So he tested the waters and graded her family, light and dark and she goes for it! Just days after meeting her.. He was probably feeling the most powerful , EVER ! Lori and her crew followed him around spreading his crap like his disciples!. But down deep, especially now that he sits in that jail cell, he knows, they were all lies. All of the garbage he's ever used to control his wife. His kids. His girlfriend. He is a liar and a failure and he knows it. Where's heavenly father now? I'm sure Jesus has not even come to see him on visiting day! But when he gets up on that stand he will cry again. He will lie again. This is who he his in my opinion. I'm not sure what label to put on him. But I really like listening to you podcast. You both put so much work into helping so many of us deal with what they have done. Although I am not a family member and never knew any of the people that have been maimed by this man, I still feel so much pain for Kay and Larry and their family. Colby and his wife. Brandon Boudreaux,, he was Charles' dear friend. Tammy's sweet sister and the rest of her family. Tylee's friends, and all of the rest of the people left behind in Chad Daybells wreckage.
This man murdered his wife in their bed then slept with her dead body until morning when he could topple her onto the floor for his son to find. That’s super cold blooded.
![An Interview with ERIC SMITH [CHAD DAYBELL'S FRIEND]](/img/n.gif)
Where is the interview posted?
Link is posted in the description of this video: th-cam.com/video/kM_JmS84PAU/w-d-xo.html
@@HiddenTrueCrime thank you :)
So sad about Tammy-she went through bankruptcy, raised the children, supported him and was very loyal and she was murdered for her efforts
Gave birth to those five children
Even though she was in a religion that I don’t agree with, I think she was a true believer. She knew God and she is resting. I believe she will get her rewards from the hands of Jesus. I can’t say it the same about Lori and Chad, because I am not sure they can repent, and without genuine repentance, not of them will see God.
But I am not wanted to minimize it that it would be nice for her to be here to hold her grandchildren, and enjoy old life with her family.
That is heartless Chad and Lori both 💔
Sad
I've always thought it was interesting that none of Chad's children were 'dark' yet Lori's were. To me that shows that Lori was not in charge.
I think the only reason Chad's kids weren't deemed "dark", is because they're all adult, and therefore independant (unlike poor Tylee and JJ). The people deemed "dark", were people who stood in the way of Chub and Whori's, repulsive "romance".
If they had life insurance, the obvious beneficiaries would be their spouses. Not profitable for Chad and Lori.
But also, JJ wasn't initially dark, later he was. Alex became dark just before his own death too, possibly because he begun to wobble, and they knew he may talk.
But it shows that Chad's kids may have easily become dark in the near future, should they disturb Lori or Chad in anyway. Or if they figured out some way to make it profitable without raising too many questions.
Lori is always in charge. She eventually would have killed Chad and led their followers with "Chad's direction" using the "portal". She is a black widow.
I'm sure Tylee's dislike of everyone was a factor in what happened to her. Poor kid.
@@robine9973 I doubt this highly. Lori Vallow Daybell intended to kill those children. Those children were not able to change the course of their fate as long as Lori had control of their lives.
Lauren mentions that Chad declared Tylee "dark" within 3 days of meeting Lori.
THREE DAYS? Bashing someone's kids is never cool. Bashing someone's kids after 3 days is questionably bizarre, leading one to believe it's even more possible that Chad and Lori knew each other before the date that's been reported.
Definitely
Hmmmm not really. Haven’t you noticed almost everyone who isn’t trying to be …..nice…..has mentioned how difficult, annoying & unlikeable Tylee was?
several people in taped convos (didn’t kno they were being taped so usually more honest) that she was never in a good mood, always surly & cranky ….on and on….
Now I don’t agree with these people I didn’t know her…..even if she was beyond annoying & no one liked her…..obviously she didn’t deserve to die and die by her mothers orders
So disgusting BUT you haven’t seriously noticed this? I sure did and have wondered at it.
THAT is why I think he said she’s dark within days. He saw what a problem she was gonna be, probably cuz she spoke her mind and recall she was married and I think like most teenagers she got snotty and cocky. A
I wonder if Chad didn't like the attention Tylee was demanding from Lori
@@6Haunted-Days I believe Lori influenced how people saw Tylee. Not to mention, some believe that Lori was poisoning her. Tylee had a myriad of medical issues that doctors could never figure out.
She was suspicious of him. My guess
It seems like Chad was actually "getting back" at all the cheerleaders that turned him down as a teenager by hooking up with Lori, who was a cheerleader and used her looks to hook up with men with financial means for her "lifestyle", including Chad. It's always a two-way street.
I agree. Lori was a trophy of sort to Chad. Back in high school or college none of the cheerleaders would have looked at him twice. Lori always used her looks to get what she wanted. But the funny thing about Chad, HE DIDN’T HAVE ANY KIND MONEY WITHOUT TAMMYS LIFE INSURANCE. He wasn’t wealthy. Tammy was the only one that was working to get a regular paycheck. He lived a very modest lifestyle and in a very modest house. He could only afford luxuries (like Hawaii) with poor Tammy’s life insurance. That was fast running out when Lori was arrested. The life insurance from poor Charles was foiled when he changed it thank goodness. And I think absolutely that Lori and Chad would have had control of Brandon’s million dollar life insurance payout if the hit on him had been successful. And there’s no telling who and how many people would have fallen victim to their dark zombie ratings for financial gain. If they had not been stopped when they were
Agree so much!
I agree that to Chad Lori was a trophy wife, she was the LDS trophy wife that he could never get....it is surprising to me that when Lori had Charles Vallow to financially support her that she didn't spring for a good plastic surgeon to fix her enormous nose...seriously why didn't she ever get her nose done? She just isn't that pretty....
I agree, but I will add, had Chad not been a publisher with her same obsession as hers. And the promise to publish her books, make her famous, and make her a spiritual leader with "power over thousands," she'd never look at him twice. She never saw Chad, only what he had achieved and she could get from him.
He had plans to replace Julie Row with Lori. Julie is marking millions bilking her followers, imagine Chad controlling that lucrative market with someone who can fool so many and wow them. He too saw status and dollar signs when he looked at her.
For this reason I don't think either of them was in fact in love with eachother. I actually think that they were infatuated with the idea and promise of what they could get from eachother.
@@DR-bp1yu I think your right....I even wonder if Lori and Chad even have the ability to love anyone truly beyond themselves...
Chad is not humbled, he's antisocial reclusive with a lot of pinned up aggression. It seems it was expressed in the way Tylee Ryan was murdered and her being dismembered and burned. Its ritual or displaced
There is phyic on utune that said exactly what happen to those kids and this was way before they were found by the police found them. And saw it was alex and lorie and chat was on the phone with lorie and alex didnt like how messy it was so that why jay jay didnt get dismembered.can you believe thats what bothered him. Not wjat he was doing to those poor kids.
I think that Chad shot one round into Tylee before he butchered her....he felt a need to cover for three things that morning in the text he sent to Tammy...the bon fires, the disturbed earth in the Pet Cemetery, and a gun shot.
I worry that poor Tylee either woke up or moaned, a faint pulse was possibly detected so Chad Daybell shot one round into her because he is a MONSTER
It also ritualisticly binded him into their evil Satanic deed.
Very ritualistic. I couldn't figure out the "disorganized" resemblance of Tylees body, to them so carefully place JJ as he was. It's ritualistic alright. Tylee represents not being resurrected. JJ was prepared to be resurrected.
I think Tylee's body and the burning of it was to hide , perhaps, that she had been sexually assaulted ?
I was a trauma nurse for 10 yrs and was faced with death frequently, some deaths were more tragic than others. I would never say that this in any way makes desensitized to the point that I would kill without issues, I wouldn’t kill someone at all period. However, dealing with these issues so frequently did have an emotional impact on me without a doubt, but it has nothing to do with death itself. During those situations it is necessary to separate your personal emotions from the situation so that you can do your job well. If you allow yourself to become emotional during a traumatic situation you may lose your ability to critically think during a highly emotionally charged event. The impact this had on me was more the fact that I was so good at shutting this down that I found myself having difficulty bringing emotions up at all when not at work and it took a few years after not working as a trauma nurse for that normal emotional response to come back. It wasn’t that I didn’t feel grief and sadness but while other people were crying, I was thinking, “so what’s our next move, what do we do next to fix this.” It’s difficult to express in words what this feels like and it may not be something every trauma nurse or any nurse for that fact, experiences, but it was what I experienced. At no point, however, did it ever make me think that killing any living thing was OK. If anything, it made LIFE very precious to me.
Well said
Same! Worked on the fetal demise team as a RN in labor and delivery and then worked hospice for a couple of years..
@@KathyLeftUndone Bless you! Takes a special person to work that aspect of nursing! It’s good to know someone else in our business experienced this!
@@karlachilders1145 Thanks! I wasn’t sure it would make sense!
@@wehvgirlpwr 💗🙏 Same to you. I’m in awe of nurses who work in Trauma. 🙏
First, THANK YOU Dr John for remembering today’s somber anniversary. I was a First Responder, had been working at a FireHouse on Long Island for several months, trying to put their EMS program back together. I wasn’t able to catch this live because the psychiatrist who did our debriefings and counseling afterwards; went down the list of everyone he had counseled..at least those of us who are still alive, and called us.😔 (we lost quite a few to post-9/11 illnesses due to the toxins they insisted didn’t exist). We talked for about an hour…so much has happened since we last talked 10 years ago.
Second, Lauren, can we clone your husband? 😁
Thank you to both of you, for continuing a professional analysis of this case.
PS I’m ordering some of that Merch for MY “Delicate Venus Flytraps” for Christmas…😂. (I gotta admit though, when I first heard that the first thing that came to mind was…well, let’s just say it was on a talk show about women’s pleasure back in the 90’s…😂)
You Elaine are incredible, I feel honored to have heard your story . I'm in California, and I don't know anyone who took their last breaths that day .
I salute you Elaine. Greetings from the UK.
Thank you, dear Elaine, for sharing some of your story! You are a BRAVE WOMAN!!! Did your cancer come as a result of 911?? I hope someday I can meet you; I wish you would write a book! Thank you for all you've done, and all you will do! I'm proud to be
Your friend...from Utah,
Kathe
Prayers for you and your hero brothers and sisters who were first responders.
Thank you Elaine, for everything. I'm on long Island. I've lost a few friends from the cleanup 😢 I will never forget that day along with the continuing aftermath. There were a lot of heroes that day. Some were already heroes doing their jobs and others became heroes that day and still others became heroes in the days, weeks and months that followed ❤❤❤❤❤
Great commentary, both of you. I agree with so many in your community - the goal is to work hard to stay balanced, treat others fairly and be a decent person, not to be exalted. The ones with a need to be admired and exalted have always worried me. Lori always seemed to have this need just as much as Chad did.
Exactly! Most of us wonder if what we're experiencing is Reality or True 👍 👍
I could not bring myself to listen to all of Chad’s presentation. It reminded me of a nerd giving a presentation in high school..I honestly don’t get how anyone would believe anything he said. Dr John is spot on about his narcissism and living in a fabricated fantasy world.
My angels told me that Chad is a sinister SOB.
That's odd, my angel said the same thing. Evil in disguise.
I sure wish you two would record more episodes of your podcast….I binged it when I found it…an episode a day while walking my dog! Would love to listen to discussions like this while walking!
I think one of the reasons Chad’s children are so slavish in their support for him is he has made them such a major part of his future prophecies. They have grown up thinking that they are a special part of the second coming. Im guessing that just like Tammy if one of them had rebelled against him and his beliefs he would have reluctantly have sacrificed that child on the alter for his version of the second coming. As much as his now adult children have been indoctrinated in his apocalyptic fantasy some of them may be dangerous as well. Certainly they all need therapy.
Exactly what I said when I saw them on 48hrs. Those kids would do well to reach out to someone…perhaps Dr John? I fear with them being so involved in his dangerous delusions and in denial of his involvement in this case; does not bode well for a healthy future..
Chad talks about his children’s great futures ….obviously he got that wrong because he destroyed it ……
What is disturbing to me is that at least two of the children are married and their spouses haven't pulled them back. Emma strikes me because she is married and lived in very close proximity to Chad and Tammy. I think she is most definitely a true believer. It seems a bit harsh but I think it's true..... The husband is lucky because he might have been the next spouse with a life insurance policy to be deemed dark.
My husband says that in similar circumstances he might still have married me but would have moved across the country. Definitely wouldn't have moved only across the road.
@@6-kids-uk GREAT point about the spouses of these kids..my goodness, if they are based in reality, can you imagine how terrified they must have been? I REALLY hope that something clicks in these kids and they get some help. The more I think about their interview, their involvement with their Dad’s books, their denial of reality with their own mother?😬
Elizabeth Stallings… I think you are spot on. His adult children have ALWAYS been portrayed as playing a important part of his different belief system. And if one or more of them had started to dissent with Chad about anything, I think he would RELUCTANTLY have sacrificed them. He wouldn’t want to but I absolutely think he would have at some point in time.
I absolutely enjoy the commentary of Dr. John. Very educational and insightful. Makes me want to go back to college. What a wonderful match you two make.
UGH, I had to struggle to watch the whole thing. Can't imagine what part of that turned Lori on. At least you put bonus pics at the end!! Thanks to you both!!
I thought the same thing!! Where’s the charisma I’ve heard about?? All I heard was a very boring, simple man trying to peddle his make believe books as non-Fiction.
I think Lori was the mastermind, and she found an easy target to do her bidding, and he was easily manipulated, seems to me. I can’t imagine , either?
I think she read his books and had an image of him in her mind and saw his platform and was a beautiful, delicate flower then Venus fly trapped him lmao 🤣
@@rachelcoloradomy3kidz778 yes, like she thought he was some famous author, or something. I just do t get it? Can’t help but feel, though, that she is extremely diabolical and manipulative. Question, if it was the perfect storm coming together when they met? I’ll never forget Melanie Gibb saying when she introduced them, and they first met, that they were talking about things far removed from the LDS church doctrine , and not for public consumption.
❤
One thing that shows us a glimpse into the heart of Chad Daybell is a story I heard about in one of his books, wherin he noticed a fairly new grave was bieng visited by a clearly grieving young lady (which turned out to be the daughter of the decedant) every single day at exactly the same time,, and how he intentionally roped off access to the area of that grave everyday shortly before she arrived, leaving the poor girl unable to visit her mother. He said in this book he was disgusted by this girl and her stupid.crying and she was irritating him and his peace & quiet in his job at the cemetery and he rejoiced in watching try, day after day, to get in,, only to be turned away.
Chad doesn't give a CHIIT about anyone and is FULLY capable of lying with a straight face about telling a mother and newly married partner that her 2 youngest kids were possessed and needed to die. And he relished in being able to have power over that poor grieving girl. He's a monster.
That is absolutely ghoulish!
I need to read his books, I think the key to understanding him better will be in his books.
What?? He actually wrote about what he did to that poor girl?
@@joycemarie9702 Stunning. The heart breaks to think of someone so deep in mourning that they made daily visits that he spoiled.
That is horrendous,what an evil heartless thing to do to someone who is grieving. Why would anyone who reads that story follow this man??? How are his readers and followers not disgusted by this???? Pure evil!!!
It was worth struggling through Chad's talk (though I didn't quite make it through the whole thing) to hear this wonderful discussion by my two favorite podcasters. Thank you :)
I skipped Chad & just tuned in for the commentary. I can always refer back to a particular clip, but I'd rather just take John & Lauren's word for it!
@@OGMsVixen4m Nguyen hmm
Hi all, I'm a 44 year old stay at home mom from ky. I so enjoy listening to u & dr. Jon. I'm listening to all the older stuff on daybell. Lauren & dr.jon make all of us smarter!! Keep up the hard work guys!!
Most T.V. Preachers, we know of in the past, CRY when they preach; banking on the fact that the audiences will empathies with the tears. It's a selling hook.
Eric Smith does it when Julie Rowe speaks (She makes me cry as well but not in the same way). It seems to be a thing with these people to show how sincere they are or how the speaker has moved them. Chad seemed to recover very quickly from his "emotional" testimony.
Love Dr Johns participation. Thank you.
You know what gave Chad away for me? When he said he shot a racoon and called it FUN TIMES!!
Exactly! I keep wanting to know why that wasn’t brought up to the kids in the latest interview when they say their father was framed. Especially after there were NO raccoons found buried there. How could anyone not see Chads involvement.
I don’t think he believed it. I think he wanted to believe but he twisted Christianity to suit himself. Though I hear you saying Narcassists have a mental maps see themselves as very important.
@@kimberlynance2711 They ie Chads children are in denial. They don’t want to see Daddy Chaddi as anything but angelic!! There is a wake up call, with this love letter to Lori. It’s very damning.
What gave Chad away for me was the fact he didn’t think it was strange that the kids weren’t around for all that time, and how he never questioned Lori about where they were.
Nailed it
And yet, Chad has a college degree and lots of people with college degrees bought and read the books he published and wrote. I think this has a lot to say about our educational system. Mormonism especially but evangelical Christianity as well are very heavy on feelings over fact and therefore I feel quintessentially American. Our educational system in this country is designed in so many ways to weed out critical thinkers and reward those who never question. It would be amazing to see where our society could be if we would just fix that one problem.
Oh yah, the “leaders and public SERVANTS” don’t want us to think for ourselves, or know our rights. Easier to get away with what they ARE getting away with. They are robbing our grandchildren blind, but we let them give themselves raises with no protests.
While I agree that our youth are being indoctrinated, hindered the capacity to develop autonomy/discernment etc The rampant problems in our education system has everything to do with the cultist ideology of marxism & absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
I think Chad knows this isn't all true. I think he wanted to be more than he was and more than his brothers friends were. This goes back to the screwing up of his application to do his degree/masters (not sure which). Being a visionary was a way of equalizing the field and boosting himself to exceed that academic level by being something even better (in his thinking). I think he knows he's faking it all.
He really is that insecure...he needed to be "special"
But in a small way he was getting there. Lori was going to help him to do more fairytale books and they would’ve make more money. They were both in the path for success, if they did not killed the kids, they probably could’ve get there. All because they could not wait a little longer.
Theirs a word for that EGO. HE really knew he didn't have "Special Powers " or a mission . But when Lori showed up all flirty and he realized she acted like she believed his crap, he told her she was a goddess and Special and 2 ego equal murderers.
I am LDS and I can attest first hand that some people (including an individual in my own family), get so wrapped up in "spiritual" things that they forget the here and now. This life, including the day-to-day living, helping out, caring for the home and the family, are also spiritual. But these basic things can (and do) get neglected when one wanders too far off into "eternity" and it can hurt the family and one can become self-absorbed and narcissistic. Of course, this can happen in any religion. One thing I have learned for myself is that when your personal religious convictions get in the way of you being the best and being there for your family, you need to reassess your priorities. If the second greatest commandment is to love one another, then we need to be there and be present for one another. In fact I recall an LDS President warn the Latter-Day Saints to avoid becoming "religionists". I think that is very wise counsel. Had Chad and Lori followed that counsel, they would have avoided the needless pain they have caused so many.
You are wise, and yes, any religion can get people more worry of church than family. Your family is priority. God comes first, not the church and the duties of church. I am Protestant, and I see people looking for spotlight, it is horrible.
Am I the only one that thinks Chad's 'insecurities' in his speech is just another manipulation tactic to maybe convince his audience that he is meek, unthreatening and humble to then come out like a vulture on the other side?
You’re not alone!
It takes a lot for people like that to cry genuinely… when you have no true empathy.
Even for himself there’s no true empathy… it’s just self absorption and selfishness. To want for yourself, is not self love.
Yes, I agree with you, and that can make him be more believable to some women. Those that like it to think they can fix man or be nurture towards them.
Chad is not convincing to himself or any normal person. He is totally selling his garbage lies for money and praise. "Ooh everyone looks up to me so I am important" is what I get from him.
I agree with you ☝️I go back and forth thinking do Chad really believe that crap he was feeding his people or just saw away to make some money 🤔 what he did was very dangerous with hus extreme beliefs.
I still don't understand how anyone believed what Chad was saying.
I still say - for him to be so “religious,” he seems to lack much discernment. Although I’m aware one can be “spiritual” without being “religious,” but neither tells us about his relationship with Christ. If these outer dimensional things, or NDEs did happen to him, then he should know that just because they were supernatural doesn’t mean they were of God, or anything to do with light.
It says in the Bible that Satan will disguise himself as light. Did he have any “revelation” about this? Or does anyone even know? If he didn’t have confirmation about the things he was being told or shown from “the veil” or the other side of it (?) then when his first “prediction” or “prophecy” didn’t come to pass, he should’ve very much sought confirmation at that point. My guess is that he had probably been given several chances to do so, & maybe he even got it but it wasn’t what he wanted it to be, so he ignored it. Accepting confirmation that this was coming from “the dark side,” would’ve “killed his buzz,” so to speak. I guess he fell for lies, evil, or whatever because he was getting the thing(s) he needed (desired) most- attention, acceptance, women... Satan will use people who are easy prey.
I can honestly say that his speech would never do it for me, even if it was on a different topic, even if I didn’t know about this case. It’s his lack of confidence, and it’s almost like he’s trying to win people based on pity vs. the joy, pride or enthusiasm in what he’s trying to sell.
Bottom line for me is that it’s scary to think people are being so easily sold based on this type of presentation.
Ok, now I’m going to listen to you guys! Yay!
Dear Formula Botanica. This podcast absolutely resonated with me. I am currently a FB graduate and was working on my final project just this morning writing my product story so that it aligns with my ethos. You will not believe it, the focus words for my ethos are "gentle, kind, loving, compassionate, sustainable and ethical." Whatever I formulate from now on must be aligned with these words. Thank you so much for these podcasts. I have learned so much from them. Kind regards, Michelle Wiese
I love that I found this channel , super educational and I love how you two break the criminal mind down into understandable segments
Thank you for your fascinating discussion and insights. I’m a little behind here in New Zealand but catching up. Human behaviour is endlessly fascinating so having informed discussion with your academic insights Dr John is priceless.
Lauren and John, I’ve been a member since right after C Daybell verdict, so I’m catching up on replay. Simply love the professionalism, humor, compassion, and detail you bring to each show. 🥰
Thank you Dr John and Lauren. I am always working when you do these lives so I always have to watch the replays. But I truly enjoy your insight! Really helps to understand a little better.
Hi,
I just wanted to say I loved your overview at the beginning discussing narcissism, psychopathy & even Machiavellianism which I wasn’t aware of prior to today.
Your on point but understated examples to illustrate these were fantastic as well…
I think you’ve won me over as a die hard follower from here on out 😊😊😊
Thanks
I love you and this community btw
Chad said that his father was his editor. So his parents were aware of his perverse LDS beliefs. Chad also said that his children acknowledged his beliefs in his books. Chad previously said that he often wrote about using his daughter as a model in his books. Could Chad's kids have abetted him in any way? Maybe by not calling 911 or refusing an autopsy, or moving Tammy's body? Maybe Chad's kids covered for him while he was seeing Lori. Making excuses for him etc.???
If my Mom died early I would want an autopsy for the sake of my children, and heading off inherited issues. Daybell kiddos...♡ They know better than anyone probbobly what the truth is. It would be incredibly hard not to hold onto the only parent you have left.
Perverse LDS...? NO!!
I wonder how Tammmy put up with Chad??? I'd like Dr. John to touch on this....I think she had to live in her own fantasy world to even get by, day to day!
Have you discussed "Folie de Duex" dynamics between Chad and Lori?
I would be so interested in this too.
No to take away from Dr. John, I was watching another TH-camr he is a psychologist his name is Dr Grande and he spoke of that and he didn't think Chad and Lori had it he just thought they were oli and fire
@@Aquamarine1111 I thought so too, you have a great day🌺
Chad is like the creator of scientology. How do people believe these characters? Craziness..
I wonder if they were brothers in one of those "probations"???
a 16/17 year old kid who is uprooted from her home and forced to move like that is going to be upset about it.
I notice he speaks of HIS children with no mention of Tammy. Also I don't see any mention of his peculiar walk which I noticed in court. Is that kind of self-conscious gait indicative of anything? Something very creepy about Chad. Boring speaker.
VERY CREEPY
I have to revisit all these podcasts and interviews from time to time regarding the daybell and vallow case. It's riveting, i hear things that i didn't really hear or catch on to the 1st or 2nd time of listening. I love this channel. ❤
I think he lies and then feeds off of the beliefs and adoration and acceptance of others in what he is saying and then it somehow solidifies into his own belief
I've seen something like it when someone who secretly knows better than to lie, then finds others who network with that and makes it acceptable and real...eventually off the deep end into, despite all evidence that an outsider would point out, they become staunch in what they believe that flies in the face of reality. When down deep they still know somewhere it's crap. But to admit that would have to accept the consequences of the ego deflation...they cannot do that because it would in essence destroy them.
You just described a guy called Jason, his fb page is 'Joy Rains' he believes he is Jesus and is the new leader of the cult 'Love has won' his fb page is farcical lol
The same can be said for believers of Qanon
Falls under fake it to you make it gone awry.
Yes, this day is very sad.... We all remember where we were when we learned about the World Trade Center. God bless all those who lost their lives that day and their families.
DR JOHN, I really don't envy your job. If I had been at this event, I would probably leave early. You surely meet some interesting people! I love getting your perspective. You and Lauren are awesome together!! Keep it up!
I had the hardest time listening to his talk😳
Personally I think Chad's beliefs came from his imagination into his decision to make them reality. It more than likely comes from the fact that he feels so inadequate as a person. He probably had a strong fantasy life.
Hearing this after the texts at Lori's trial and knowing Chad is super sadistic when it comes to children feeling pain :'(
I can help you break apart Jason Mow’s self glorified resume that’s so embellished! I’m retired Army and I know for a fact there is a bunch of embellishments and some straight lies. Let me know if you’re interested.
Interested! Please email us at hiddentruecrime@gmail.com
Cannot wait to hear the outcome!
Yes me too!!! Will be another great interview from Lauren!!!
He came to my city and our Mormon friends invited our son to go hear him speak. I told my husband to say no, and why we said no. One of the friends looked him up and didn’t have his son go, and the other one didn’t care and let his kid go anyway. Mow is super sketchy.
Someone should send this to the Idaho Prosecutor Wood so he can use it to refute the framed idea. Hr is so sick!
It was Chads beliefs that attracted Lori. He had to keep building on it. Make it more and more dramatic. The more he added the more Lori was attracted. He always wanted women to adore him.
It's like he allowed his imagination to unfold with stories that gave him things he didn't have, like authority and access to women who were hot his wife. You can see the pull of that for him- it'd take some pretty good critical thinking to get himself not to give credence to his own fantasies. And I agree, John, that critical thinking is not his strong area.
Liked & subscribed. Yours is the ONLY platform answering the questions I have. Thank you, thank you!
Melanie Gibb did not care for Tylee.
Another woman in the family also said something about Tylee. Was it Adam's wife who said Tylee was a mean spirited person?
I'm wondering if Melanie Gibb told Chad about Tylee, and said negative things about her early on, making Chad to believe she was a dark spirit.
Or Lori could have said something because nobody argues with mom like a 16 year old girl. Normally they are the queen of the heavy sigh and eye roll every time you open your mouth. Lori could have complained and Chad probably jumped on that like white on rice.
@@spongebobsqueeze yes, I was thinking that too.
@Just Your Average Mom Yep, I was a mouthy kid and then I became a mouthy adult. Lol
@@spongebobsqueezesame, as was my mother. When I was 15 we almost got into a fistfight. I tried to slap her & she grabbed my wrist.
By far, Hidden True Crime has the best series of podcasts I’ve found. I love the psychological knowledge Dr John shares, combined with Lauren’s understanding of the Mormon faith, w/journalists abilities. I think the interviews have also helped explain the cult rabbit hole some members have gone down but what I cannot get my mind around is...Chad Daybell. At best he is an uninteresting minion. How do we get from this recording to killing children & burying them in his back yard, and murdering the mother of his children? I know the whole sheep in wolf in clothing theory but something more is off. I know it’s illogical but I feel like he has this evil element I can’t articulate or shake...creeps me out.
We love you both! Thank you ❤️
Great job on compiling and editing the info .The questions are fantastic and the answers and insight from Dr John are great.Well done guys ☄️interesting all round and very thought provoking.
Hi Lauren and dr. John. I left a message on the wrong comment section I believe so I'm going to do it again. First of all listening to Chad is like listening to a Dullard Potato Head. I have a question Doctor John. What type of treatments do you think they are using to so-call restore Lori back to competency for the trial. As far as I'm concerned she was totally competent to manipulate through her world and to do the evil things she did. Back to the question. What do you think they are doing with Lori? Thank you guys so much for a great evening. I'm thankful I was able to stay awake listening to Chad. Lauren you bring so much to the table and I really love your sensibilities. Thank you guys again so much I really look forward to seeing and being with you in the next one. Oh yes One more thing.
If Chad knows even the Slightest thing about the Bible, he would know clearly about where the new Jerusalem is.
And you guessed it, it's not
Missouri. So he is implying he knows more than God. Hmmm.
Legally, incompetency to stand trial is unrelated to the mental state of the defendant at the time the crimes were committed. It is possible she had a psychotic break. I couldn't say for sure if she is malingering or not.
@@innervisions1828 got it. But I wasn't addressing that point. Thanks for your reply.
Kavita, yes I'd like Dr Johns opinion on what the most likely treatment options for what we know about Lori and the circumstances.
Machiavellianism! Dr. John! There you go, teaching me something new!
Narcissists also isolate their victims, he wanted everyone in Laurie’s life OUT so of course they were all “dark” and needed eliminated, the kids were competition of her time. Narcissists are jealous by nature it is one of their darkest traits because it is what drives them to be as evil as they are.
The movie Jason was involved in is called Speak No Evil in which children turn into zombies. You can see an interview with him speaking about this on Annie Cushing's YT channel, Annielytics.
Thanks for a great channel. You both give great insight on this crazy case. Thanks again for all you do to keep us informed. ❤️
Are Lauren and John Mormons? Do you know?
Death anxiety and he is facing the death penalty.... the irony
Chads family is basically Mormon fundamentalist... culture.
Lori's family uses Mormon fundamentalists culture for different ways. Did you know She's also a distant related of another Mormon murder, Joseph Powell. His wife Susan is still missing.
Loved the live, thank you. Very interesting. (Isn't the plant that eats people a triffid)?
It might be! We know a Venus Flytrap doesn’t actually eat people, but the joke was referenced around Little Shop Of Horrors.
@@HiddenTrueCrime excellent film, now got the song in my head!
I’ve been waiting for this!! Thank y’all!!
Thanks again for this great podcast!
Appreciate this discussion and analysis
This question is for Lauren, the journalist. Regarding the question someone asked which included all the questions that 48 Hours might’ve asked… Wouldn’t CD’s kids have been prepped before they were interviewed on air? For instance, I’m sure the kids had some “off limits” topics. And could they have been involved in the editing, or would they be allowed to do this, or to view it before it aired?
I was a reporter/writer for a newspaper, and my questions had to meet the interviewee’s approval; although it wasn’t a “rule” we had to show them the copy before it went to print. I don’t know if there’s a blanket rule for TV, or if it just depends... Anyway, whatever the case, I would assume the questions asked had to meet approval, the source of that approval being John Prior (Again, I’m assuming.) 🤨
Thank you, Lauren, & Dr. John! This is so very good & helpful for so many reasons. One is that it keeps some of us from going off the rails when it comes to our own “analysis” of CD, LV, & others involved in the case. At the same time, we get expert opinions leading us to our own “critical thinking!”
I really want to read Chad Daybell’s books, just out of curiosity, but I don’t want him to get any money from me! So I’m glad you’re talking about them some. Love your show! You two are so cool together! I’m a super fan! 🙏🏼
Hi dr John, love your work, I’m interested to know what you think of the modern phenomenon of social media and the pile on, where people just readily condemn people, also the contemporary common over use of the term narcissist, usually in the context of an ex partner? Thanks
Shelly Jakes - Great question! Perhaps folie à plusieurs, even?! I think the mass of people who genuinely believe in some of these teachings, Chad's and otherwise, could be even more immense than we originally thought. However, I also think Chad is more of a Machiavellian than some give him credit for.
I have had premonitions my whole life. They never served a specific purpose because it's too hard to discern them from normal worries or thoughts. The only meaning I can really assign to them is that I pick up on other people's energy, whether they are stuck in an elevator, having a baby, or unfortunately being murdered, which was what happened to my best friend, I can either see it before during or after it happens. I can't imagine going around assigning any meaning to them or feeling like I am some elite person or that I have some authority to lead other people. I actually have spent my whole life trying to explain them away and yet drawing some comfort in knowing there is a spiritual realm that is close to us. Unfortunately I think they all got wrapped up in magical thinking and they fueled each others fires and delusional beliefs and it all ended up just being an excuse for whatever served them.
His low key way of speaking and crying is very common among Mormon speakers/leaders. Sometimes it seems like it’s even faked at times in order to make the audience feel emotional.
Can't wait until his trial it takes soooooo long thank you so much
I could only get through 16 minutes of Chad Daybell's 45 minute speech. I couldn't help feeling that only a particular audiance would be interested in being there in person . I couldn't connect with what he was saying. I applaud Lauren and Dr John for listening to the whole thing. Thanks for sharing your analysis on You Tube.
I don't get how or why Chad sits like a stone and basically does not move AT ALL for long spaces of time in these court videos that we've seen. I just wonder what kind of weirdness this is, what it's called, and where it comes from - is he spacing out, or is he meditating with open eyes? It's almost non-human-like behaviour.
Thank you Mr and Mrs M for this discussion. Interesting thoughts.
How much of a coincidence is it that the place to go in those horrific times Chad speaks of will be the place where he lives.
I know right, how convenient....also notice in his rubric where he lists people's past lives those surrounding Christ are all people from Chad's friend circle or current LDS leaders...like out of all the people in the world it's his buddies yeah right...
Fascinating insight. Please could you do a timeline of this case. It's so overwhelming and confusing at times
I do have a question and using Daybell as an example for this purpose.
With Machiavellianism traits in people (or personality?) they can appear to understand the emotions and feelings of others but generally lack the empathy to actually connect and/or think they do but don’t.
Does this mean they could successfully have long-term relationships with the appearance of being emotionally connected and invested etc and maintain these long term (until their need to manipulate and/or get ahead interferes and blows that appearance up)?
Daybells marriage to Tammy and family life certainly has that appearance where as with Lori they were limited by time (thank god the rest of us say) but it does have the appearance of more a relationship of a means to an ends (with purported feelings as well 😊) Lori being emotionally unstable at best may mistake his appearance of understanding her as him actually empathising etc….
I have another example (not personally applicable to me just something I came across in my own work )…..
For example (Chad and Tammy): A husband and wife together 10yrs (5m), emotionally connected and loving, 2 kids, built a new house, all the material appearance their income cant meet (the usual). Involves himself in the clandestine manufacturing of large scale prohibited drugs AFTER telling his wife of the ‘opportunity’ to which she begged him to promise he wouldn’t but still did so behind her back and maintained he was going to his work each day as a builder, all went well until his grandiose plans came crashing down due to the fault of others (aka the police).
There also existed (at least appeared to exist) an expectation the wife who was left in debt, jobless and single with 2 young kids and a mortgage to maintain an expectation it was not incredible for him to Expect the wife to carry the torch for ‘them’ while he went to jail for 10 years over it but that when he got out they could resume where they left off and move forward (including plans to take eldest overseas, buy land for a farm etc etc). I am conscious some of this grandiosity is also possibly part-cover for his own depression or masking etc. but no real understanding of their financial conundrum being in the negative and getting worse not better, no comprehension of the trauma caused to the wife, no comprehension that where he is will create serious issues between him and his kids despite them being excited to see him when little. All those that seem to know him pre-lockup overlook his criminality (incl. wife’s family to some degree) citing ‘he’s such a nice guy, do anything for anyone and he’s too dumb to know what he got himself into’
I’m not asking you to diagnose or solve as I said this is just something I came across in my work and has always stayed with me. But, machiavelianism struck me… do you see the potential for those traits in this scenario above?
I never doubted he loved his wife and family and probably was a great guy, his wife said she never wanted for anything (clearly she now wishes she was left wanting) but to me there was more than ‘too dumb’ behind his drive to betray his wife the love of his life in order to pursue his clearly grandiose plans to provide and live successfully as a Fulltime unqualified chemical cook! Plus the weird entitlement to expect the wife would maintain the fort for them until he got home!!
I don’t know how they ended up I think he is close to his release date but that story has never left me and I think it’s because I’m trying to understand the husbands thinking
Please help me put this to med 😂😂
Thanks 😊
*in first post
Chad and Tammy had that appearance, so then his actions with lori and even his growing need for world domination and to continue his profession of burying corpses appear to fall into that machiavelianism trait (as opposed to other partners who commit adultery which is often very driven by personal or relationship communication lapses or emotional dysfunction and ends in a dramatic and highly emotional way) no emotion or dysfunction with him and when Tammy interfered by becoming suss (or risk of being told) he couldn’t risk his plans failing so he got rid of the problem (Tammy) and he didn’t do that to ‘be with Lori’ that I’m sure about
I do hope you guys bring back the podcast format. Cheers
I don't think that Chad daybell had near-death experiences or prophetic visions of end times.
He's a milquetoast guy who wanted to be special, and did everything he could to attract and keep Lori.
I think Alex had brain damage from his injury as a child and got sucked into her and Chad's ridiculous ideas. He thought he was doing right and in the end he realized what he had done.
I think there's some kind of poison involved that he used to kill himself and that was also used on Joe, Lori's earlier husband.
Definitely thought it was interesting that he 100 percent believes that Rexburg will be the temporary headquarters for the LDS church during the apocalypse. That's why they all started moving there. SUPER INTERESTING. Always thought Idaho mormons were even more weird than the normal mormon. It makes sense now why they all move there.
Thank you Lauren and Dr John.
Does anybody know what recording Dr.Matthias was listening to.
I would be really interested to hear it too.
Thank you
This was so interesting. I always learn a lot listening to you two. Thanks for doing this.
Thanks to breaking this down DR John! I needed my head to zap back into reality here.
I love your merch !!
Wonderful comment on IQ Dr John! Great episode! Thank You.
Your interview with Heather Daybell is the most insightful in analyzing Chad Daybell. I don't give him that much credit. I think if Lori hadn't come along, he would still be living his life with his wife and kids.
You see the lack of love of himself though we know much more now after the trial. But isn’t that.where a narcissist begins and lives in fantasy good call
Yes! Nervous humor! Great insights and commentary. Much appreciated!
Love this channel & love for JJ grandparents. Can't think of them enough.💔💋💯🧡💚💜💙
Reminds me of my BIL 1:06:45 with the narcissism. He claimed he was doing his own interpretation of the Bible because the scholars has it wrong....less than a year later my sister is dead. Chad reminds me a lot of him .
Chad played the quiet "humble" guy, but it was an act. His sister in law said he never asked anyone else how they were, was always talking about himself, trying to impress others and seemed competetive with his brother. I think people who lack empathy and emotion can be quiet and appear to be calm and cool, but there is a difference between mastering emotion and lacking emotion. I think he was a copy cat. He saw what Julie was doing, and realized he could feign near death experiences and visions to gain followers. Of course he was at the very top of his own rating system that he used to manipulate others to kill innocent and truly superior humans to him.
Hes also not that smart to think he could bury his girlfriends kids in his own yard and get away with it. His "I buried a raccoon" text shows how dumb he really is. The only faith he had was in his ability to lie and manipulate others because he had been getting away with it his whole life. Except his sil saw right through him, so of course he had to discredit her to the family. I have to wonder if Tylee did too, so of course she had to be removed.
I think people who lie to that level do try to convince themselves of their own lies to be able to lie more effectively. He also was an underachiever who knew there is something wrong with him. He knows he relies on lies to appear successful. He knows he doesnt care about other humans and deep down knows he is actually worse than most people he meets. So when people started following and looking up to him and he was able to get a woman he was attracted to, he convinced himself he was actually superior to others, and could be the next Joseph Smith.
A lot of narcissists in LDS seem to decide they have these visions and could even be the next prophet. And why stop there. Maybe they could actually be the second coming of Christ. David Koresh or Warren Jeffs did the exact same thing. And then the ATF shows up, or the FBI finds all your child brides, or the local police find those dismembered kids in your yard and you come right back down to earth and remember you are actually a socipath.
That call with Lori said everything. While Lori was still in total denial and certain the end days were near and they would take their royal thrones in heaven, Chad knew the jig was up. He slinked to his car and actually tried to flee, because he is not smart and thought he still might be able to get away with it. He dropped Lori like yesterdays news and threw her under the bus while she tried to lock eyes with jail makeup in the court room and started to unravel.
Dont get me wrong. They both have a disregard for others and human life. They both have narcissistic traits, a God complex while those around them shared a group delusion. They are both malignent narcissists. ASPD and NPD are a part of the same spectrum. They both lack empathy. How aware of their personality disorders they are is unknown. They are both manipulive liars so its hard to tell.
As someone who worked with many toddlers with attachment disorders, I can tell you those personality disorders start in early childhood. Attachment disorders happen when an infant or toddler lacks at least one attached caregiver who consistently responds to their needs and positively interacts with them. I have seen it and its not a pretty picture. The first three years of life are also when we learn social skills, including the big, multi part one called empathy. Some learn how to predict others behavior but lack emotional empathy and compassion. After three its pretty much too late. There are some miraculous exceptions, but the more isolated the infant, the more malformed their brain, the greater the social and emotional deficits and possibly other developmental delays.
When I see Chad I see a silent toddler standing alone watching his family interact, too emotionally neglected to even know how to be included. I see a kid who adapted manipulative behaviors to get attention. I see the same in Lori, except with stronger cognitive empathy. But she doesnt care about people, not even her own kids. Niether does Chad. People tend to preserve their own DNA, especially if your kids give you a sense of power and control. Lori didnt even have that. They have a similarly severe combination of personality disorders and this led them to think they were "soulmates." They were actually unwanted children who grew up to be lost souls. They are both extremely dangerous, especially together, and are exactly where they belong. Niether of them know love, so they cant know God, and for that they deserve our pity.
OMG Lauren you look so much different when you interview someone. You look so much happier when you with Dr. Babe he obviously lights up your life ❤
The Moroni costume Lauren mentioned, was he trying to impress Lori? Lori was supposedly married to Moroni in past lives. LoL
After hearing that Chad said Tylee was dark, three days after he made this speech, makes me think he was involved with Lori before this recording.... I do think Chad suffered from depression from time to time especially when he travelled as a young man, possibly had a breakdown... I do believe he is deluded, and definitely a narcissistic psociopath, in my opinion... Extremely dangerous, and there is no doubt he would have got rid of his own children if they got in his way, but they were all adults, living independently... He got Tammy's insurance money and murdered her in cold blood with his son in the same house without a thorough.... This was very interesting thank for all your hard work.. Regards from Ireland 🇮🇪
I agree with you, Dr. John. I think Chad definitely fits all these personality traits to an extent.
I grew up in the mainstream LDS church in the 70's, and the prophet was going to tell us when to pack up our year's supply of food, water, and ammo and walk to Missouri to prepare for the 2nd coming. At that point in time, the church was still teaching that the 2nd coming would be in OUR lifetime. My older brother's patriarchal blessing had this claim.
So Missouri had great significance for Chad and many of the people in his audience. He didn't just pick that spot by throwing a dart on a map. However, I never heard about Rexburg being a gathering place.
PS Sorry about the Utes, Lauren. I was rooting for them too, only because I hate BYU. 😄
2 Timothy 3 1-27. Speaks exactly what is going on with this case and so many more in the world today.I just read it again tonight and it speaks volumes to me.
I think that he has told lies so many times that he believed them to a degree and could become emotional when discussing it because it furthered his cause, which in my opinion was to have more people believe what he was spewing. His family BELIEVED him. His dad, his wife, his children. His children still do! It made him, in my opinion, feel powerful which he probably never had before. He seemes boring. Definitely not a handsome man and probably thought that he deserved more.. So he wrote his books and met people like Julie Row, who is spewing her own lies . They basically had an unspoken bond, " I'll back your lies if you back mine." So his feelings of power and pride probably grew. He was doing podcasts and speeches and coordinating his own book signings. Then....he met Lori, who was introduced to him as a FAN!. As a true believer! He probably felt almost high and euphoric to have, (in his mind,) this beautiful woman, believe everything he said! So he tested the waters and graded her family, light and dark and she goes for it! Just days after meeting her.. He was probably feeling the most powerful , EVER ! Lori and her crew followed him around spreading his crap like his disciples!. But down deep, especially now that he sits in that jail cell, he knows, they were all lies. All of the garbage he's ever used to control his wife. His kids. His girlfriend. He is a liar and a failure and he knows it. Where's heavenly father now? I'm sure Jesus has not even come to see him on visiting day! But when he gets up on that stand he will cry again. He will lie again. This is who he his in my opinion. I'm not sure what label to put on him. But I really like listening to you podcast. You both put so much work into helping so many of us deal with what they have done. Although I am not a family member and never knew any of the people that have been maimed by this man, I still feel so much pain for Kay and Larry and their family. Colby and his wife. Brandon Boudreaux,, he was Charles' dear friend. Tammy's sweet sister and the rest of her family. Tylee's friends, and all of the rest of the people left behind in Chad Daybells wreckage.
Dr. John - in the future could you cite your sources in the show notes? Thanks so much.
This man murdered his wife in their bed then slept with her dead body until morning when he could topple her onto the floor for his son to find. That’s super cold blooded.