Freud Lives! | Slavoj Zizek and Stephen Grosz
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2017
- We are often told that psychoanalysis is dead. Outdated scientifically, in that the Freudian model of the mind has been superseded by neurobiology; outdated clinically, where the talking cure has lost ground to drug treatment or behavioural therapy; outdated socially, where the idea that we are repressed by the norms of others is no longer stocked in today’s supermarket of free choices. But perhaps the moment of psychoanalysis has only just arrived.
Slavoj Žižek and Stephen Grosz - a dazzling theorist and a renowned practitioner - have urgent stories to tell us about ourselves and the present state of our wishes: the wish for a trouble-free existence, and for therapies which can instantly return us to everyday reality, or unreality; the wish for science to explain our minds, or explain them away...
Discovering the unconscious at work in psychic life, Freud showed that the ego is not master in its own house, that we do not know our own minds. This is a truth with no sell-by date, and Freud’s insights are alive today more than ever.
Filmed on 5th October 2017 at Emmanuel Centre, London.
How to: Academy - www.howtoacademy.com
Filming by: Driftwood Pictures - www.driftwoodpictures.net
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See more of Slavoj here: th-cam.com/play/PLFIigLLitqDlMcyK7zER5I8s9AgGwSPgj.html
I love how listening to Zizek is like listening to flight of the bumblebee and listening to grosz is like a chopin nocturne
Nice
Oh you're so educated, wow, I'm clapping.
You tubers never disappoint hahaha
@@scipioafricanus3324 imagine getting triggered by that comment XD
@@skepticmonkey6923 Your comment is like reading Tolstoy and your avatar is like a romantic evening with Braque under the moonlight after breaking into Monet's home at Argenteuil.
“Shall we stop and pretend it’s democracy” classic Zizek
Could you explain, please, what he meant by that expression?
He’s just joking. Grosz and himself have been the only people talking thus far, thus he feels it to be “dictatorial” how they monopolised the conversation. He, “democratically”, wants to hear from other people in the room.
Zizek is an intellectual BEAST
Whzen I see Sizek, I always think : this guy has accepted his little 'Tics', he picks his clothes, wipes his nose, face, ...
This can all be looked at from a psycho-analytic view and Sizek knows it, but he does not fight them, he accepts them as part of himself and it makes him such a
genuine charachter.
He enjoys his symptoms :^)
@@sacrificezone we all do bcs we love to think of ourselves as being unique identities
Zizek preparing 3 therapy sessions in advance is so damn relatable.
50:00 When Zizek says so violently that nothing should happen, in fact he is unconsciously wanting something to happen and so on.
Daemon Dif Exactly
Psychoanalysis is not "Opposite Day" or Cpt. Kirk's Planet of Rape where "no" always means "yes".
He is provoking people conciousness
@@tlatosmd hahahahahha
Stephen Grosz gave me excellent insight at 48:24, saying that to him "the paranoiac is really afraid of indifference, that they would rather feel betrayed than forgotten, that paranoia is a defense against being indifferent." What an wonderful insight. I think this happened to the late great chess player Bobby Fischer, he began to become irrelevant and likely felt that nobody cared about him in the years after he was the world champion and in the public eye. Forgotten, he became homeless and was reputed to have been extremely paranoid. He became irrelevant and insignificant to others and to the world in his own mind and that led to his extreme paranoia.
A similar thing happened to me during an unfortunate period after being incarcerated. I became paranoid about the hostility of others, seen and unseen. Now I see that it was precisely because I felt insignificant, that the world saw me indifferently, just another prisoner who was released...that is very clearly the cause for the paranoia I experienced. Great insight Stephen Grosz.
wow, great comment (which is rare on yt). i agree, it's interesting to see how bad attention and good attention are both more psychology advantageous than no attention. in your case, opposite to fischer, because you had this bad attention given (all the court proceedings and board hearings that i'm sure you had to endure) you felt a kind of mutated form of positive cognitive feedback. you experienced withdrawal (loneliness, paranoia, etc) from the attention that you would never have consciously desired. speaks a whole lot to how little we understand about the human tendency towards society creation.
Also read to mahler on kleins objetal theory about schizoparanoid phase, about being ignored that causes the subject to go in a aggressive or passive way because of the bad breaks, that doesn't hurt, but ignores, and it may lead to the André Green's concept of white psychosis as a continuous feeling of paranoia that keeps them on themselves without expression...
Zizek often quotes Lacan to make a similar point. A husband is jealous that his wife is cheating on him. Even if the husbands suspicions are true that his wife is cheating on him behind his back his experience of jealousy is pathological. IE, why does he need to feel jealous to sustain his identity. Perhaps because the indifference of the world is too much to cope with so jealousy is a way to create meaning and self value in an indifferent world.
If you read about Bobby, he was already having anti-semantic remarks even before he became world champion.
M T I’ve spent the last few years understanding jealousy as a concept (the way that people use the word to ascribe meaning to a feeling) and my own jealousy. I’ve never put it in terms of attention until now and I think it nestles well into how I’ve become to explain it. I always put it in terms of abandonment and self worth. ‘Attention’ can be nestled into those other concepts quite nicely. One is abandoned when they lose the attention of that person. The abandonment is a lack of attention. Thank you for you wisdom. I do appreciate it.
Stephen's calm, soft voice instantly puts me at ease.
Sometimes i felt a little bit to lured in to it, like getting drunk with out noticing it
Zizek's voice aggravates my bowels.
It puts you at ease because you think calm, soft voices should put you at ease. In keeping with the Freudian spirit of this video, what lurks beneath the soft exterior? "Compassion"? "Kindness"? I prefer Zizek's manic chattering warble
For me it almost has the opposite effect
It's too slow for me
It gives me so much joy to see Zizek rub his hands and grin when the question is not directed at him!
Something about this 70 (or so) years old dude acting like a little boy is just so endearing!
11:55 »precisely sexuality, as such, undermines normativity!«
what a lovely little quote!
Zizi is psychoanalysing himselfas he shares his reflections knowledge experiences and as he does that I am learning as well.he is so natural spontaneous sincere authentic.Zizi I don't think u talk too much u exude knowledge wisdom erudition as u searche yourself and I am benefiting.Thank Did I.
"I hate the term feel."
what was that about? were we supposed to understand a joke or something?
oh well, he might just hate the term 'feel'...
@@andreasstahl2614 Because it was too subjective in the context of his question... It's pretty simple. There is nothing wrong in using the right terminology to express oneself.
What a fantastic conversation. Very refreshing because I think both were good balances for each other. In many ways it was nice to see Zizek be so open to conceding opinions to Grosz and adding on in his own unique way. There are more than a few gems of revelation in here. Recommend!
Coffee without milk < Coffee without cream
The Brocialist I don't get it
@@Quinefan It's a reference to one of Slavoj's examples.
if cream is better than milk, isn't the oposite? Less disappointment!
@@Quinefanhe explained determinate negation through an example where waiter asks customer what he wants and he says i want coffee without milk, since the shop doesnt give coffee with milk, the waiter says we dont have coffee without milk but we do have coffee without cream. So itd basically identifying/determining smth through negation.
Shocked when i found out zizek is in his 70s I thought he was in his early 50s
Can’t be mad at zizek, he was obviously really excited about this
Zizek's humour is just phenomenal 🤣😂
This two voices, attitudes, paces, volumes are beautifuly contrasting
2:50 min before he says "Capitalism". Not bad.
Ka pi ta Li sum
1:07:12 They both ignore a very good moment to actually address a valid concern about the different approaches to therapy in CBT vs psychoanalysis and what is available through health services. I think, especially because the nature of the discussion (Freud still lives in this time of CBT growth), they should have given more interest to the question.
I think the onus here was more on Grosz to make a comment or contribute something … he was a no show and we didn’t need him on stage.
I was quite disappointed by this, it's not a very difficult question either. I think Zizek doesn't want to answer it because basically he is a misanthrope and think that 99% of people are stupid and uninteresting. I'm a fan of his, I think he's just disinterested in that dimension. The psychologist on the other is clearly avoiding the question, I think he is embarrassed by the contents of the question. Which I find weird for someone in his field. I can't answer for the British NHS but as I live under a similar system is that therapies outside of cbt are not considered effective or important and more importantly, mental health issues are not prioritized by the public health system. Strange since dysfunction and suicide levels are ever rising in western society in otherwise healthy patients. You can get transgender surgery, breast reduction, botox treatments through public health and god knows what else, why not better psychological therapies? Or other kinds of support for patients to heal psychological problems through lifestyle changes etc? Its simply wrong priorities and discrimination of people who suffer from illness of the mind and soul and deserve to get the same help as everyone else, suicidal people also pay taxes right? Doesn't take a professor to answer this question but really disappointed that neither took the time to answer her question.
@@setmymindinmotion or simply that cbt is shit and it takes at least 10 hours to explain everything wrong with it.
as manic as SŽ usually is, how beautiful to see him calmed by the presence of a subtle & quiet “master”. the more “real” he is despite his hysterical defenses, the more focused & profound he becomes.
Damn, i'm so alienated with college. I dream all the time in finishing it, so i can start really learning by myself and with extraordinary humans like Zizek.
That's normal. You've got the right attitude to lead an intellectually fulfilling life. But keep going and get that piece of paper, however useless a lot of your lectures might seem. It will give everything you learn afterwards a different emotional context; namely, your own success.
@@eliascristante5306 Thank you
@@mb2756 My pleasure.
Remember to shag the stunners, utmost importance
Read Marx. You will enjoy 'German Ideology'.
Stephen Grosz is a very nice person
Oh my god the subtitle when zezek speaks!
extrrrrRrRRRemely
Pressshishly!
lol
When I started reading you comment, I was expecting the Dalek's "extterrrrrrRrRrrminate"
last five minutes of discussion was where it started to get really interesting, hats off to the lady for the incisive comment on the dynamic that was taking place on stage.
I wish they could have spent more time on it
Like a refreshing shower, Zizek exposes the pedantic personas of the myopic elitist academies of so-called experts who cling to their professional identities with self aggrandizement of personal experiences & opinion, but whose performances reveal a paucity of connective ideas (their origins of reason) or curiosity about why they might be irrelevant or absurd. Honestly, politely, "I will say this, may I ... Excuse me for..." -- while dressed in a T shirt. THANK U 4 posting Zizek appearances, true gems to have been recommended by an algorithm,
Its interesting when Zizek talk about 'public space' refering to a virtual one of acknowledgement. I mean its a very interesting subject when you relally think about that public physical space in this century... as a political and psicological one. And, yes virtuality its clearly a form of interaction and maybe that is what it should be thought... how public space has been reduced to the virtual sphere of interaction (thanks internet for this blank box)
God is Hegelian.
Someone else finally figured that out !
I thought I was the only one.
Hegel tapped into some major mojo.
amen
How can I really understand hegel? Any books or videod you might suggest?
@@dantemiaclub9745
JK, here's a good video for ya.
th-cam.com/video/OgNt1C72B_4/w-d-xo.html
Doesn't mean that God is real. The dynamic is Hegelian, but it's the product of illusion. The master (god) is served/worshipped by the people, but they don't have a factual definition nor reasoning skills to set up a basis as to why.
If anything goes right, it must be the process. If anything goes wrong, it must be my fault.
I can relate to this mentality.
Slavoj Žižek sabotaging Stephen Grosz
Yeah Grosz was not needed on stage … there was just no contribution what so ever, even to questions directed directly at him…
It's precisely like Zizek is the patient who try to sabotage, and Stephen grosz is the psychoanalysis who had regrets all the time.
And so on and so on.
Dr Grosz is new to me and I'm very pleased to have met him.. Very impressive
Research Tavistock, I think it is a little like our CIA, it may very well be a divisive organization, a think tank for dangerous study of manipulating human behavior.....
@@barbarajohnson1442 lol
At 39:15 Zizek touched his nose and a component from his microphone fell onto his shirt. He then picks it up from his shirt but doesn't realize it's from his mic to he keeps playing with it with his hand ( I'm not sure how I even observed this small event )
Zizek cites Freud with saying „Psychoanalysis as a clinical practice would only be fully possible if it would no longer be needed.“ I would love to cite this in my work, does anyone know where i can find the original Freud citation, in which of his works he said that or in what wording?
"Western buddhism" idk why i find that so funny 😂😂😂 always entertaining, Zizi.
"no, but the last question, and then.."
Very interesting
and so on and so on..
Awesome
The Most Interesting Question Re NHS 1:08 didnt really get an answer because Grosz doesnt want to bite the hand that feeds him.(or used to feed him)
Ikr... I felt bad for the girl asking that question, they basically just ignored and moved on
"By we I mean population or ideological circles."
Just a brief side note done by Z. but it is worth pondering over it.
Zizek in great form 🤓
I am not here a pessimist.
It's important for him to distinguish where he is not a pessimist and where he is, as he's not an all-or-nothing pessimist, and what serious thinker could be? Schopenhauer doesn't count, he was a hypocrite.
Slavoj is pessimistic about certain things yet not about others.
Working out to this.
Enjoyable definitely.But Wakefulness against Slumber!!!
I survived to find some breeding space
1:10:47 Did Žižek just squeak?
feeling sorry for Grosz, he looks disappointed that he could not get more talking time in, as Zizek just kept interrupting and rambling ha
I've watched two talks about psychoanalysis by Zizek and I still can't tell if he is advocating for it, against it, or what.
Big Boss, It’s neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so. Sisek didn’t commit suicide (OMG) after being jilted by his first love, ha, ha, but the ritual, the games. (You can experence a fleeting insight on the couch, then go home & beat your wife - not change your mind or habit.) Sisek brilliantly presents Freud in context, historically embedded in our culture re sex, etc., refers to & quotes him many times in lectures (a Freudian Hegelian). Specifically, the benefits of (his distimguished doctor pointedly inserts “clinical”) psychoanalysis are inconclusive (cannot be scientifically measured). It’s more complicated than for or against,. Did you hope for a yelling match? If psychoanalysis helps (Trump definitely needs), what difference does it make what Sisek thinks?
@@marileesteele1804 seems like your projecting at the end, but ok, yeah he contextualizes the topic. A+
Hey man, hope you are doing well. In general, what Zizek is doing is presenting conditions, context and philosophical reasoning for his position. He is almost certainly in favor of psychoanalysis since he himself is/was a practicing psychoanalyst. However, as usual in the broad field of social sciences, Zizek is addressing limitations and/or problems within the "art" of psychoanalysis itself which are commonly discussed by the general consensus at academia. Of course, these reflection also bring a new discussion/approach to the topic.
@@colonelbrando "F*ck psychology." (Zizek)
Any further questions ?
I think the rise of the word “queer” kinda solves the whole lgbt normative classifications? But I don’t know..
Our dark mind is alike a kid, there is indulgence and experiment without a moral position, we need to understand the consequence as the lesson. Often a moral lesson given by the other man does not stop our dark urges, we are as much our dark as our graceful, we need to always find out what our dark is capable of.
1:01:26 when the question is trash
Never thought Will Ferrell could be this sharp
Misses Grosz is going to be PISSED at how late Stephen was to get home
God this conversation really needed a moderator, I really wanted to hear what Stephen had to say...
and so on and so on and so on and so on
yes I do
I thought Stephen was actually Ted Danson. Even sounds like him.
I wish zizek was my analyst.
Zizek here is using Stephen and the public as an analyst... of course Stephen knows it and laughs kindly...
Can you explain how you know this?
it's because of his hysterical position (Zizek).
Because he can safely assume it from the distance.
No he is not. People have the wildest ideas.
Anyone who has the opportunity and no distractions to meditate and study is am sure have a more focus on the questions we all want answers.
37:40 I did the same two years before.
No disrespect to the guy, but why does Zizek invite others to a 'conversation', when all he ever does is talk over them and monopolize discussion? Grosz being as courteous and soft spoken in this instance literally didn't manage to interject but the occasional sentence into Z's streams of consciousness. Both had interesting things to say, but we are all familiar with Zizek's talking points; it's a shame we didn't get to hear more of Grosz's in this rare instance.
I would agree, but then again, it IS Zizek who is the draw and who is the main character while Grosz is the foil, however I would love to hear more from Grosz. I guess I'm just saying we all know it is going to go down this way. I'd be disappointed if it were otherwise, just for my own entertainment, lol.
Michael Allison LMFT Family Therapy To readers of 'The Examined Life' at least, I think Grosz is the draw.
Really, did Zizek have anything interesting to say. How many time s did he say the word 'Lacan' ?
Quinefan certainly Grosz is a draw. That's what I meant he's the foil. But there's no way zizek is coming to Thanksgiving dinner and anyone is going to get a word in. I agree i would have LOVED to hear more from Grosz. I had some great intellectual gain from what little he did say.
Michael Allison LMFT Family Therapy That's not what 'foil' means.
How to generate legends in english ?
1:07:17: zizek's excitement haha
HA! too good :)
56:43
ŽIŽEK No1
18:00 Is psychoanalytic is out dated?
1:01:25 best moment
34:07 - that was a really loud sniff
haven't relationships always been commodified? isn't that what marriage is originally about?
In general? No. Under capitalism? Still no. Marriage and the family are about a gendered offloading of the cost of reproducing wage labor. I mean, rings, wedding dresses, baby formula, diapers, furniture are all commodities, sure. But we're talking about a different facet of things here. Dating apps and social media represent novel enclosures and commodifications of our interpersonal relations in ways that simply didn't exist before.
Dowry?
Poor Stephen.
Dat intro.
I don't want to hear this cafeteria joke anymore
Do you know joke from Ernst Lubitch's Ninotchka?
it's just a familiar story he can use at any time to quite efficiently invoke other ideas
I am sorry. We are actually out of Ninotchka jokes... So we can't give you Zizek without cream at this time. Can we interest you in Zizek without omelette, or Zizek without Indians?
You can tell Mr.Grosz is a psychiatrist, and a good one, from his voice. I knew people in university are in tthe civil engineering department because they looked like a block, in electrical engineering department from their hair, in most cases that reflection that describes the inner workings of a person does not surface.
39:13 Did something just come out of his nose?
left hand
38:30
36:00 zizek talking about therapy and being suicidal
Freud was analyzed by carl jung,but the results never published
Freud lives like Jesus does ... Inside institutions. Regardless and inconsequential of what the human condition is today. Slavo Zizeck is as brilliant and as inutile !
The girl with the second last question was asking for some sympathy by rambling on about being a r*pe victim and having PTSD. Grosz gave a 3 second response which basically amounted to "I dunno what to say really, heh". Zizek jumped in, but not to address her plea, but because he had apparently not even been listening to her as instead he had been thinking about the previous question they were asked, so he addressed that. The girl was left unacknowledged as they moved on to the last question which was so brilliant that it got an applause by the crowd. Lol. Unfortunate.
Yes. All true, but the question was in some sense answered via the final question. People are afraid of psychoanalysis because of its openendedness and because it requires the effort of the patient with an uncertain outcome whereas other forms of therapy are more tightly defined and partly for that reason, more acceptable to health bureaucrats who decide what will be funded in the public health system. However, psychoanalytic psychotherapy (as distinct from psychoanalysis) is widely available under the NHS.
Time stamp?
Grosz said that sometimes people wish to have gone through a better suited therapy sooner, and then blame it on the system for time lost (?) on cbt.
Anyways, it felt like Zizek was indeed the Analysand and Grosz, the Analyst. That is probably why the second to last question was so out of place, and the last question was so spot on. And in a strange way, I think the questions complemented each other.
I know very little about Psycoanalysis, but Zizek seemed very paranoic and I am guessing that the true reason he never practised is because he never finished one on himself. But I suppose that is OK, since otherwise, he wouldn't be Zizek, and so on and so forth.
Lol the way you put it makes it so comical, the poor woman waiting to be aknowledged and you think that was a short answer the psychoanalyst gave....BUT THEN Zizek steps in to answer, you think he has something grand to answer....and just ignores the question and shares some thoughts he had on a previous idea, an absolute fatal blow lol. But yeah finding a psychological help that best suits your needs can be very difficult and pricey.
It seems I'm the only one who thinks Grosz sounds like John Malkovitch
The only issue here Is that there Is absolutely no empirical support for Freudian psychoanalysis
Zizek asks the Psycho-analyst how he basically avoids projecting their anxieties onto the patient. I don't believe there is a strong theory of this I think psycho-analysts just practice a shit load
Actually there is. Some authors talk about it, Racker, Bion, Meltzer, among others. But, that's why us analysts go to anaylisis and also I agree, lot of experience
At 1:10:02 Zizek talks about the prerequisite to break norms in a certain manner to be excepted in a particular university department; I have witnessed this myself at my liberal university, and it is perpetuity of multiplicity but taken a bit to seriously, that is ones Identity (and the politics of) is a deadlock as it preaches equality but promotes individual exclusion if you are deemed too 'normal'. If one brings this up this hegemony you are seen as attacking individuals with your patriarchal hetro-imposition.
All I am saying is I agree almost 100% with Slavoj in that I believe certain trends in ideology and certain radical new wave feminism is just dividing the genders to further opposition. I am a male and I desire equality, so I am a feminist - well back then )60s) this was okay and feminism was much more universalized in praxis and form.
But now there are certain notions which employ an absoluteness that is standardized to fit a ideology of non-nomrlaity and if one is not scene to met the standards they are excluded.
Judith Butler and Wendy Brown are the feminist I follow but the new age identity politics of 'power in my victimization-hood' is not the way one should seek positive self regard and social acceptance.
Zach Patterson if you really believe that the dominant ideology is a specific lack of normativity, you are first limiting yourself to the very much not broadly emblematic environment of a liberal university.
Then, you are faced with justifying the parts of normativity that are being deliberately excluded. For instance if the university department is a gender studies department that teaches Butler, and your normativity was the actually emblematic sexism and paternalism then (and this is the crazy part I know) the exclusion of you based on the norm is totally valid.
I mean your position is laughable. Are you calling for the impossibility of non-ideological education? Nietzsche and Foucault’s conclusion that knowledge is inseparable from the structuring of knowledge through power seems to render that impossible.
Or are you still just even more specifically arguing that you should be able to make the false and reductive criticism that feminists want to exclude hetero white men.
Zach Patterson I mean even on the extreme feminist left on TH-cam the main figures are quite often cis white men. It sounds to me like the motivation of being a victim is what *you’re* calling on here too, the difference being that in reality you are the oppressed class in what is still an inherently normative society.
39:15 did he spit out a peace of gumb and casualy trow it on the ground
King Kong ok I hate you
Hahaha
Never read the comments
this is too true
25:21 -end of zizeks intro (just cuz)
12 minutes in and slavoj has asked at least questions still havent heard buddy say anything hah
@44:00 Žižek missed a golden chance here to point out one of the biggest flaws in clinical psychoanalysis, which is the institution of the clinic itself and commodification. If the patient has to pay money to get an a analysis, or submit to an unnatural commodified relationship with a "certified" therapist, this very structure defeats the genuine moral purpose of psychoanalysis. You can often better help a friend who is in spiritual trouble over a coffee at a quiet cafe than in a clinic, or go on a long walk with them, or head out to chop some trees down for firewood, and the therapist need not be certified, they might be a good friend who is just prepared to listen.
BTW _that_ is what is outdated, the institutionalized psychoanalyst who demands money to give help to someone.
Oh, I note the audience questioner @52:00 got there, good for her!
beneficent sabotage: it must be Zizek (poor Grosz)
the joke of the week: "i almost had to laugh"
1:10:49 zizi is trying to turn himself into a cat because of that stupid introduction to the question
i hate that bitch
@@nachog.s.7729 lmao, that's intense. They just asked a question
@@TheRandomBiscuit hahahahaha i dont know why i took it so bad, sory :)
Stephen Grosz is one of the very few rare people who's face would benefit from addition af a mustache. The Jungian look would do him good. xD
1:05:24 and so on and so on and so on
Important question at 39:15
What was that falling from his nose?
it's the microphone filter which fell of when he hit it
Lol. Took him 26 minutes to introduce him and asked him, what, three direct (rhetorical) questions during his ramble?
They didn't even talk about PORNOGRAPHY--the most obvious example of "liberating" sexuality, watched by MILLIONS. What does this mean?