Great video Rich. You might also mention one interesting fact. The Mustang, despite being the baby jet in the lineup, is more comfortable and roomy in the pilots seat than almost any narrow body Citation... 500, 501, 550, 560 & CJ lineup.... None of them are as comfortable in the pilots seat compared to the Mustang... partially due to no pedestal. I remember people standing up at the old Cessna Operators Conference screaming at Textron Execs for there fact the Mustang had a better cockpit and avionics than the Citation X lol...
Rich, this is the best overview/comparison of the Cessna Mustang/M2 to date. I was in the market 3 years ago and the decision point was mission (#pax). 3 pax or less, go Mustang. M2 has higher ceiling and better high altitude performance so again mission drives choice. Thanks for the effort in putting this video together. I am well aware of the 3+ hours required to produce a quality 10 minute video. Good Job BZ!! Stay safe!
Good overview. I fly both and the other big differences are in the climb performance (the M2 is much easier to get up to the high 30s or FL410 on a hot day) and having more range flexibility in cruise. The Mustang is pretty underpowered from the mid 30s on up so it's always in the cruise detent and you get what you get in terms of range. The M2 has a bit more power and if you need to squeeze out another ~150 miles out of it, you can often pull back the power a bit to LRC and stretch it (and this is beyond the extra 150-200NM of range at high speed cruise that you get over the Mustang). On some trips, that difference is enough to avoid a fuel stop altogether and that can be a big savings. I have a 1400NM milk run that is non-stop in the M2 (going East) but not in the Mustang.
Would still love to see a comparison between a Cessna Mustang and the Epic E1000. Can imagine the single turboprop engine of an E1000 burns a lot less fuel at FL340 than the Mustang does at FL400. And 325 vs 330 ktas……not a big deal. Seating and space is pretty familiar.
I’m bias, but one interesting thing between the Mustang and M2 is that although the cabin on the M2 is larger there is significantly less room between the forward and rear facing club seats. The M2 cabin does appear more roomy with the lav in back but at least for 4 people in back the Mustang actually has more legroom.
Thanks Rich ! I was excited to see this video come out. I have now watched it a couple of times As a recent mustang owner pilot it’s always been hard to believe just how good the mustang actually is! Im satisfied that given the substantial price difference there’s no rush to upgrade Keep up the good work
Hey Rich. I really like your channel. I just discovered it. I am passionate by aviation and especially by jets. I used to fly PC 12 and Mustang. Good job man.
Hey Rich, this probably isn't really your deal, but you're an aviation guy, so I'll just throw this out there, mostly for entertainment value, I think a few aviation fans out there would love to see a head to head comparison between some of the newer Citation jets and a old school fire breather like the Piper Cheyenne 400LS which was built specifically to compete with the Cessna jets. Granted the 400LS might be kinda hard to come up with for the comparison, but it would still be a cool thing, comparing old school props to new school jets.
Would be fun to do. We took a 400LS in trade a few years back and it was a real beast - 1000 HP/side, 410, fast, all black! I got probably 50 hours in it and enjoyed flying it. There just aren’t any around so hard to keep up with maintenance. Very narrow cabin as I recall as well. Great suggestion and if I can do it, I will.
Rich very good impression on your presentation. I own a bee raft B90 S/N 1523 with 3100 and modified 2008 Blckwoak with 2100 hrs I would like to find a newer 90 with update instrument panel good shape Do you have an idea the aproximada cost thanks Owen
The M2 has a decent climb rate and will get out of some pretty short runways, not to mention about 60kts faster than a mustang, obviously a higher fuel burn too..
Another great video from Rich. Lots of interesting information. Big surprise that the average annual maintenance cost was “only” 10-12 percent more on the M2. Despite you being a “Cessna man” how would the Phenom 100(E) compete with the Mustang, in your opinion, since those 2 planes were in direct competition with each other? And finally, do you have a Phenom type (you seems to fly just about anything 😎)? Thanks from across the Atlantic
Haven’t been exposed to the Phenom 100 as much. I do have a couple customers who have them and like them a lot. I will try to do a video. Probably compare more with the Mustang and may have had an impact on Cessna bringing the 525/M2 back. I have a Phenom 300 Type Rating. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the valuable information. A question about your cost calculations; you stated “maintaining a mustang was in the neighborhood of like thirty thousand dollars a year” Does that estimate include the $350/hr engine maintenance program, or are these costs additive?
Unfortunately, I’m not optimistic prices will come down on light GA aircraft. I’m my opinion there isn’t enough inventory coming in to the market (new airplanes) to offset the shortage of used airplanes. I hope I’m wrong.
Hello Rich, is the TBM 850 and Mustang comparable in operating cost? Sure the fuel burn is a bit more in the Mustang. But for the price of a mustang you get hell of a plane for a million less than the TBM
The overall cost of owning a TBM will be far less than a Mustang, the TBM 900’s speed is within 10K of the Mustang, and the TBM burns significantly less fuel and has much greater range. Also, since the Mustang is a “jet”, the insurance company will require a 2nd pilot to take with you for a much longer period of time than will be required for the turboprop (assuming a pilot moving up with no jet time). Bringing a pilot with you, sending him home when you arrive at destination, , and having to fly him back when you are ready to leave again is a real hassle and additional cost/logistics consideration.
Having said that, Mustang gives you second engine redundancy, it can cruise higher than the TBM, and has a higher pressurization differential than the TBM
We have owned both Mustang and TBM, and have several customers who have owned both, your claim that, “the overall cost of owning a TBM will be far less than an Mustang,” is not consistent with those experiences. Have you owned or operated both?
@@FlyingwithRich I own a TBM, and have friends who have owned Mustangs. They are both awesome airplanes for sure, but the jet world will always be more expensive. Fuel is your biggest cost, and you have to budget 100 GPH for Mustang vs 60 for TBM (and don’t forget, in many areas of the country, ATC will not let you stay high and will descend you to inefficient fuel burn altitudes well before destination). You have engine reserves for 2 engines instead of 1. Just your annual recurrency training at Flight Safety is $25,000, whereasTBM is a small fraction of that. Hangers charge more for Jets, and all FBO fees are more for jets. A TBM has 1 annual inspection per year (up to 200 hrs), whereas jets typically have multiple inspections coming due ( calendar inspections, parts time inspections, etc). Rich, Glad to better understand what $$ figures you are estimating with ? Forgot to mention, TBM also has better runway performance, making more airports available.
I prefer bleed air on the wings, M2 still has boots on the tail. Neither really offer an advantage in terms of capability so not a material difference in my opinion. Thanks for watching.
Great video Rich. You might also mention one interesting fact. The Mustang, despite being the baby jet in the lineup, is more comfortable and roomy in the pilots seat than almost any narrow body Citation... 500, 501, 550, 560 & CJ lineup.... None of them are as comfortable in the pilots seat compared to the Mustang... partially due to no pedestal. I remember people standing up at the old Cessna Operators Conference screaming at Textron Execs for there fact the Mustang had a better cockpit and avionics than the Citation X lol...
Rich, this is the best overview/comparison of the Cessna Mustang/M2 to date. I was in the market 3 years ago and the decision point was mission (#pax). 3 pax or less, go Mustang. M2 has higher ceiling and better high altitude performance so again mission drives choice. Thanks for the effort in putting this video together. I am well aware of the 3+ hours required to produce a quality 10 minute video. Good Job BZ!! Stay safe!
Thank you for the compliment and the additional feedback!
Good overview. I fly both and the other big differences are in the climb performance (the M2 is much easier to get up to the high 30s or FL410 on a hot day) and having more range flexibility in cruise. The Mustang is pretty underpowered from the mid 30s on up so it's always in the cruise detent and you get what you get in terms of range. The M2 has a bit more power and if you need to squeeze out another ~150 miles out of it, you can often pull back the power a bit to LRC and stretch it (and this is beyond the extra 150-200NM of range at high speed cruise that you get over the Mustang). On some trips, that difference is enough to avoid a fuel stop altogether and that can be a big savings. I have a 1400NM milk run that is non-stop in the M2 (going East) but not in the Mustang.
Great point about the hour differences in TBO and hot sections between the two.
I like it. A lot of knowledge being learned. Thanks Rich
I like the hot wings on the m2 vs the boots on the mustang
Would still love to see a comparison between a Cessna Mustang and the Epic E1000. Can imagine the single turboprop engine of an E1000 burns a lot less fuel at FL340 than the Mustang does at FL400. And 325 vs 330 ktas……not a big deal. Seating and space is pretty familiar.
I’m bias, but one interesting thing between the Mustang and M2 is that although the cabin on the M2 is larger there is significantly less room between the forward and rear facing club seats. The M2 cabin does appear more roomy with the lav in back but at least for 4 people in back the Mustang actually has more legroom.
Great Video Rich!! Very helpful in making a decision for a future purchase
You are doing some great video presentations Rich. Excellent video here!
Thank you very much!
Another great video, Rich. Keep 'em coming, always look forward to the next one!!
Thanks, will do!
Having recently chartered a Mustang for a flight, if your pax aren't pretty skinny--don't use the Mustang! The spacing is VERY tight between seats.
Thanks Rich ! I was excited to see this video come out. I have now watched it a couple of times
As a recent mustang owner pilot it’s always been hard to believe just how good the mustang actually is!
Im satisfied that given the substantial price difference there’s no rush to upgrade
Keep up the good work
Great choice in airplanes!
Really got a lot of info from this video. Thanks you!
Thanks for watching!
Hey Rich. I really like your channel. I just discovered it. I am passionate by aviation and especially by jets. I used to fly PC 12 and Mustang.
Good job man.
Thank you!
Great job.
Great new video format Rich
Not sure I like it - prefer to be flying!
Hey Rich, this probably isn't really your deal, but you're an aviation guy, so I'll just throw this out there, mostly for entertainment value, I think a few aviation fans out there would love to see a head to head comparison between some of the newer Citation jets and a old school fire breather like the Piper Cheyenne 400LS which was built specifically to compete with the Cessna jets. Granted the 400LS might be kinda hard to come up with for the comparison, but it would still be a cool thing, comparing old school props to new school jets.
Would be fun to do. We took a 400LS in trade a few years back and it was a real beast - 1000 HP/side, 410, fast, all black! I got probably 50 hours in it and enjoyed flying it. There just aren’t any around so hard to keep up with maintenance. Very narrow cabin as I recall as well. Great suggestion and if I can do it, I will.
Rich very good impression on your presentation. I own a bee raft B90 S/N 1523 with 3100 and modified 2008 Blckwoak with 2100 hrs I would like to find a newer 90 with update instrument panel good shape Do you have an idea the aproximada cost thanks Owen
Another great video!! I enjoyed the comparison!! Happy Thanksgiving, Blessings!!!
Thank you!
Appreciate your video Rich!
Thank you!
Great video! Really appreciate this comparison. Just found your channel and looking forward to more videos
Thank you!
Nice breakdown on the differences, seems more like personal choice and of course $$$
Thank you and yes, that's true! It's mostly $$$!
I always like the Cessna's
Thanks rich - really enjoyed this video. Would love to connect sometime soon
Great comparison, love our M2!
Thanks - great airplane!
Great video Rich. Thanks
Thank you!
The M2 has a decent climb rate and will get out of some pretty short runways, not to mention about 60kts faster than a mustang, obviously a higher fuel burn too..
I would love to know how much would cost to own them and fly like 200 hours per year.
Very informative - very enjoyable
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really interesting, always wondered what the significant differences are. We have a few Mustangs here in New Zealand, not many other Citations
Glad I could help!
Another great video from Rich. Lots of interesting information. Big surprise that the average annual maintenance cost was “only” 10-12 percent more on the M2. Despite you being a “Cessna man” how would the Phenom 100(E) compete with the Mustang, in your opinion, since those 2 planes were in direct competition with each other? And finally, do you have a Phenom type (you seems to fly just about anything 😎)? Thanks from across the Atlantic
Haven’t been exposed to the Phenom 100 as much. I do have a couple customers who have them and like them a lot. I will try to do a video. Probably compare more with the Mustang and may have had an impact on Cessna bringing the 525/M2 back. I have a Phenom 300 Type Rating. Thanks for watching.
Great video! At 4:15 , is that price per engine or both engines?
Both airplanes are right around $400/hr for both engines.
Could you please make a video going through the differences between the G1000, G1000 NXi, and G 3000
We'll plan on that. Thank you!
Happy Thanksgiving To you all Rich
Same to you!
Thanks for the valuable information. A question about your cost calculations; you stated “maintaining a mustang was in the neighborhood of like thirty thousand dollars a year” Does that estimate include the $350/hr engine maintenance program, or are these costs additive?
Engine programs on top of the maintenance costs.
Excellent video
Thank you!
awesome video
Thank you!
How is the pilot leg room in a Mustang vs M2? I am 6’ 1” with a 32” inseam.
Rich, when are GA plane prices gonna come back to normal levels? mad crazy prices goin on.......
Unfortunately, I’m not optimistic prices will come down on light GA aircraft. I’m my opinion there isn’t enough inventory coming in to the market (new airplanes) to offset the shortage of used airplanes. I hope I’m wrong.
Hello Rich, is the TBM 850 and Mustang comparable in operating cost? Sure the fuel burn is a bit more in the Mustang. But for the price of a mustang you get hell of a plane for a million less than the TBM
I agree and based on my experience the Mustang is less to maintain than a TBM 850 - 940.
The overall cost of owning a TBM will be far less than a Mustang, the TBM 900’s speed is within 10K of the Mustang, and the TBM burns significantly less fuel and has much greater range. Also, since the Mustang is a “jet”, the insurance company will require a 2nd pilot to take with you for a much longer period of time than will be required for the turboprop (assuming a pilot moving up with no jet time). Bringing a pilot with you, sending him home when you arrive at destination, , and having to fly him back when you are ready to leave again is a real hassle and additional cost/logistics consideration.
Having said that, Mustang gives you second engine redundancy, it can cruise higher than the TBM, and has a higher pressurization differential than the TBM
We have owned both Mustang and TBM, and have several customers who have owned both, your claim that, “the overall cost of owning a TBM will be far less than an Mustang,” is not consistent with those experiences. Have you owned or operated both?
@@FlyingwithRich I own a TBM, and have friends who have owned Mustangs. They are both awesome airplanes for sure, but the jet world will always be more expensive. Fuel is your biggest cost, and you have to budget 100 GPH for Mustang vs 60 for TBM (and don’t forget, in many areas of the country, ATC will not let you stay high and will descend you to inefficient fuel burn altitudes well before destination). You have engine reserves for 2 engines instead of 1. Just your annual recurrency training at Flight Safety is $25,000, whereasTBM is a small fraction of that. Hangers charge more for Jets, and all FBO fees are more for jets. A TBM has 1 annual inspection per year (up to 200 hrs), whereas jets typically have multiple inspections coming due ( calendar inspections, parts time inspections, etc). Rich, Glad to better understand what $$ figures you are estimating with ? Forgot to mention, TBM also has better runway performance, making more airports available.
Boots anti-ice vs Hot-Air anti-ice is a big difference to me ;)
I prefer bleed air on the wings, M2 still has boots on the tail. Neither really offer an advantage in terms of capability so not a material difference in my opinion. Thanks for watching.
Yeah, perhaps cause one is a deicer vs an antiicer mate? Anyway at crz altitudes you should not find signifcant icing
👍
Looking very nice.
Thank you! Cheers!
What is the avaerage cost of a pre-owned M-2 in 2023?
Wide range - early SN with average time $4M range. Later SN with average time, high $4M to low $5M range.
Personally I'd rather have a Piaggio P180 buring 95 gallons per Hour and if u Throttle it back to half Throttle only burning 45 gallons per hour!!
Is the PC-12, C90 or the Avanti an alternative to one of this jets?
They are too slow and noisy, but with better range and max payload
Your name should be “Flying WITH the Rich”
The first one here!!! 😁
No comparison except the cost to operate
Exelent....
Thanks!
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