One video I've dreamed of existing would be something that goes through all of the audiophile terms like "speed", "detail", "macro/micro dynamics", "airiness", "sparkle", etc. with sample audio that really showcases that aspect clearly.
How do you learn to listen? Go to your local symphony, opera house, band, small jazz clubs. That will wake up your senses and put everything in perspective. Love the channel thanks for your time.
You guys are amazing! The way you explain these things and add examples is so useful for those learning this craft. All those wanting to get into critical listening should watch this. Thank you so much
Please make a video of all the audiophile terms using these visual/audible examples! That would be epic and extremely useful. It would also help customers truly appreciate your gear. Please consider it.
I like the two approaches presented. When I was a kid, I heard distortion in the bass region, which was the initial spark for me to think, there has to be better speakers that can playback music without distortion. So it makes sense that you have to listen to tracks and look for the specific parts that bother you or stand out. Plus you do need experience with live music, or at least live instruments so you know what to look for when you listen carefully. I also like Eric's approach where he seeks the opinion of others to confirm what he hears, to help reduce his own biases. It's a nice scientific approach that seeks consensus (or replicability). Also his approach to listen to the song as a whole. When I got a HomePod, I was amazed that it had no distortion, but it also has a particular signature when used as mono speaker. When I played familiar songs, it was surprising that the HomePod would emphasize certain instruments more than when compared to headphone listening. In stereo, it sounded similar to what I was used to. But a funny thing you can do with the homePod is move it around to different parts of the room and get very different tonality in the songs. Some of it was very wrong, but sometimes wrong and interesting.
Probably one of the most interesting episodes you have posted team Abyss, kudos to you 👍 and in the process you managed, yet again, to nail down a couple of things that I’m working on for upcoming series 😉
Thank you for a good discussion. It went into more detail and described a little deeper the message implicit in discussions of some of the other reviewer‘s. It gave me a better sense of what one should be trying to do on this journey of listening to more music through continually better equipment.
I’m sorry, my comment went off before it was finished, so let me continue: so while that is very helpful, it may have set me off in a different direction from that you intended. What I mean by that is that I am older and so my hearing while generally fine, isn’t that what used to be. It seems to me that no matter how much time I spend listening I suspect I will really not ever get to the point of hearing that last percent that you seem to be describing. Consequently it seems to me my better course would be to just buy a few good/very good pieces of equipment in the various categories (headphones, amp, dacs) and then simply enjoy the music with less of a focus on continually buying better and more expensive equipment. Actually, that sounds liberating. But I thank you again for focusing me on “how to“ get as much as possible out of enjoying music.
I'm a drummer so yes cymbals are something I really pat attention to when evaluating what gear is doing to the playback. My go-to album is Like Minds by Corea/Burton/Hayes/Holland for mellow music and anything from Hiromi Trio Project for a mix of mellow and aggresive.
I tend to listen to Jack Black's initial scream in Tenacious D - Master Exploder :D The end of it sometimes distorts pretty bad :) I do wonder how it sounds on high end equipment
In relation to how headphones and speakers differ, that "body feeling" from speakers and live music is simply irreplaceable! Too bad reeeaaally nice speaker setups are ultra-expensive, so I suppose I'll go for the next best thing
I was open to saving up long-term for a good set of speakers, until I learned the other schiit I would need to buy to power and run them, plus the bill that follows. Headfi is a much easier and more affordable setup (in comparison).
Here comes the tough nut. MQA, yes MQA. Now the pre ringing that is only hearable in digital audio systems cos of the nature of the filtering. MQA does indeed remove the pre ringing/pre echo BUT how much you need to put on conventional DAC that can do same? 1K$, 5K$ 25K$? SMSL SU-9 does it very well and cost only 400$ but with MQA ofc.. You can hear the difference on "Boris Blank: Electrified" in Tidal as MQA. The difference in drums and those tight electrical sounds vs FLAC version of that album. The difference is truly hearable.
Have you tried a similar comparison of redbook v hi-res (non-MQA)? The difference (16/44 v 24/88) seemed a little more pronounced to me on Qobuz (non-MQA) than on Tidal (MQA). But TBH I found it subtle in both cases.
Could you say more about "how long (the sound of the cymbal) takes to decay"? This is a characteristic that has always confused me when reading about high-end audio. The sound played by the headphones is a forced response, driven by the source track. I'd imagine that most competent headphones are close to critically-damped, and that most audible frequencies would not provoke a natural resonance within the headphones. What physical characteristic would cause the time-to-half of the cymbal sound to vary, given fixed forced response? Is it just a matter of dynamiic range and the noise floor of the DAC and amp, allowing you to hear more of the quieter trail-off?
from my relatively limited experience (btw, i'm a drummer so i'm very acustomed to drum sound), here's what i think: it's a matter of transients, whick could vary due to the driver mass, rigidity etc and the amp. the crash cymbal has obviously a very long dacay. i tested some gear, so i put a good drums recording trough my open back dynamics and the decay was natural, close to the real cymbal. on a different pair, a planar magnetic, which has very fast transients, the attack was good and fast but the decay was also fast, being much shorter and even incomplete (at some point the decaying sound just stopped abruptly), so completely unnatural. Probably the Benchmark headphone amp used in the test (which has a high damping factor) contributed to the issue of those headphones. Paired with a vintage amp, with a low damping factor, would have helped
@@michaelfreiberg8057 Thank you for the thoughtful response! If this were an open-loop control system problem, and I think it is, then the planar magnetic headphones should be producing more "correct" sound in both cases. More accurate attack and decay, because the higher-bandwidth device can more closely track the source ("command") signal. I can believe that a lower-bandwidth device, or one with poorer damping of some resonant frequencies, may produce pleasing distortion or "dynamic residuals from the command signal", but it should never be the case that the faster-responding gear causes us to lose information. I wonder if this is a terminology problem more than anything else
@@ericfallabel9201 as i understand it, and i'm guessing a little bit here, the sound made by the driver, is a combination of the impulse given by the amp and it's own free vibration. this free vibration could obviously be too long or too short. too long, it would sound pleasant but slugish. too short, as in my exemple, it would sound unnatural on certain instruments. now,what makes the free vibration of a driver shorter, is the damping factor of the amp. so i think it's a matching problem between the headphone (or speaker) and the amp
One video I've dreamed of existing would be something that goes through all of the audiophile terms like "speed", "detail", "macro/micro dynamics", "airiness", "sparkle", etc. with sample audio that really showcases that aspect clearly.
Agreed. I'd also love to see appropriate frequency-domain signal analysis annotated with those characteristics
I really like these visuals you guys are using to demonstrate what you are talking about. Thanks guys, keep it up.
Thanks DMS
These videos are amazing. DMS is so good at editing.
Your example of benchmarking is exactly what I do too. I find a particular spot and put it on repeat.
‘With great power comes great responsibility’!
How do you learn to listen? Go to your local symphony, opera house, band, small jazz clubs. That will wake up your senses and put everything in perspective. Love the channel thanks for your time.
The set keeps improving. Well done DMS.
You guys are amazing! The way you explain these things and add examples is so useful for those learning this craft. All those wanting to get into critical listening should watch this. Thank you so much
I learned by reading reviews and comments about equipment I owned and knew well. Makes it easier to correlate the descriptors to what you've heard.
Please make a video of all the audiophile terms using these visual/audible examples! That would be epic and extremely useful. It would also help customers truly appreciate your gear. Please consider it.
I like the added visuals. Great video. Thank you!
Since musical memory is proved to be as short as 8 -12 seconds it obviously useful to focus on short music clips to lock in on problems.
Having been through this experience myself, you guys sure do get it. Listen up folks, these guys speak truth.
I like the two approaches presented. When I was a kid, I heard distortion in the bass region, which was the initial spark for me to think, there has to be better speakers that can playback music without distortion. So it makes sense that you have to listen to tracks and look for the specific parts that bother you or stand out. Plus you do need experience with live music, or at least live instruments so you know what to look for when you listen carefully.
I also like Eric's approach where he seeks the opinion of others to confirm what he hears, to help reduce his own biases. It's a nice scientific approach that seeks consensus (or replicability). Also his approach to listen to the song as a whole.
When I got a HomePod, I was amazed that it had no distortion, but it also has a particular signature when used as mono speaker. When I played familiar songs, it was surprising that the HomePod would emphasize certain instruments more than when compared to headphone listening. In stereo, it sounded similar to what I was used to. But a funny thing you can do with the homePod is move it around to different parts of the room and get very different tonality in the songs. Some of it was very wrong, but sometimes wrong and interesting.
This is a great video guys!
Very cathartic discussion--thank you, guys.
Probably one of the most interesting episodes you have posted team Abyss, kudos to you 👍 and in the process you managed, yet again, to nail down a couple of things that I’m working on for upcoming series 😉
Thank you for a good discussion. It went into more detail and described a little deeper the message implicit in discussions of some of the other reviewer‘s. It gave me a better sense of what one should be trying to do on this journey of listening to more music through continually better equipment.
I’m sorry, my comment went off before it was finished, so let me continue: so while that is very helpful, it may have set me off in a different direction from that you intended. What I mean by that is that I am older and so my hearing while generally fine, isn’t that what used to be. It seems to me that no matter how much time I spend listening I suspect I will really not ever get to the point of hearing that last percent that you seem to be describing. Consequently it seems to me my better course would be to just buy a few good/very good pieces of equipment in the various categories (headphones, amp, dacs) and then simply enjoy the music with less of a focus on continually buying better and more expensive equipment. Actually, that sounds liberating. But I thank you again for focusing me on “how to“ get as much as possible out of enjoying music.
I'm a drummer so yes cymbals are something I really pat attention to when evaluating what gear is doing to the playback. My go-to album is Like Minds by Corea/Burton/Hayes/Holland for mellow music and anything from Hiromi Trio Project for a mix of mellow and aggresive.
Great video.
I tend to listen to Jack Black's initial scream in Tenacious D - Master Exploder :D The end of it sometimes distorts pretty bad :) I do wonder how it sounds on high end equipment
Guitar and an amp is my reference too haha
In relation to how headphones and speakers differ, that "body feeling" from speakers and live music is simply irreplaceable! Too bad reeeaaally nice speaker setups are ultra-expensive, so I suppose I'll go for the next best thing
I was open to saving up long-term for a good set of speakers, until I learned the other schiit I would need to buy to power and run them, plus the bill that follows. Headfi is a much easier and more affordable setup (in comparison).
Here comes the tough nut. MQA, yes MQA. Now the pre ringing that is only hearable in digital audio systems cos of the nature of the filtering. MQA does indeed remove the pre ringing/pre echo BUT how much you need to put on conventional DAC that can do same? 1K$, 5K$ 25K$? SMSL SU-9 does it very well and cost only 400$ but with MQA ofc.. You can hear the difference on "Boris Blank: Electrified" in Tidal as MQA. The difference in drums and those tight electrical sounds vs FLAC version of that album. The difference is truly hearable.
And yeah Tidal has boosted the MQA files bit rates a lot. No more 800 Kbs MQAs, they start at 2000 Kbs and goes up to +9000 kbs.
Have you tried a similar comparison of redbook v hi-res (non-MQA)? The difference (16/44 v 24/88) seemed a little more pronounced to me on Qobuz (non-MQA) than on Tidal (MQA). But TBH I found it subtle in both cases.
Could you say more about "how long (the sound of the cymbal) takes to decay"? This is a characteristic that has always confused me when reading about high-end audio.
The sound played by the headphones is a forced response, driven by the source track. I'd imagine that most competent headphones are close to critically-damped, and that most audible frequencies would not provoke a natural resonance within the headphones.
What physical characteristic would cause the time-to-half of the cymbal sound to vary, given fixed forced response? Is it just a matter of dynamiic range and the noise floor of the DAC and amp, allowing you to hear more of the quieter trail-off?
from my relatively limited experience (btw, i'm a drummer so i'm very acustomed to drum sound), here's what i think: it's a matter of transients, whick could vary due to the driver mass, rigidity etc and the amp. the crash cymbal has obviously a very long dacay. i tested some gear, so i put a good drums recording trough my open back dynamics and the decay was natural, close to the real cymbal. on a different pair, a planar magnetic, which has very fast transients, the attack was good and fast but the decay was also fast, being much shorter and even incomplete (at some point the decaying sound just stopped abruptly), so completely unnatural. Probably the Benchmark headphone amp used in the test (which has a high damping factor) contributed to the issue of those headphones. Paired with a vintage amp, with a low damping factor, would have helped
@@michaelfreiberg8057 Thank you for the thoughtful response! If this were an open-loop control system problem, and I think it is, then the planar magnetic headphones should be producing more "correct" sound in both cases. More accurate attack and decay, because the higher-bandwidth device can more closely track the source ("command") signal.
I can believe that a lower-bandwidth device, or one with poorer damping of some resonant frequencies, may produce pleasing distortion or "dynamic residuals from the command signal", but it should never be the case that the faster-responding gear causes us to lose information.
I wonder if this is a terminology problem more than anything else
@@ericfallabel9201 as i understand it, and i'm guessing a little bit here, the sound made by the driver, is a combination of the impulse given by the amp and it's own free vibration. this free vibration could obviously be too long or too short. too long, it would sound pleasant but slugish. too short, as in my exemple, it would sound unnatural on certain instruments. now,what makes the free vibration of a driver shorter, is the damping factor of the amp. so i think it's a matching problem between the headphone (or speaker) and the amp
not multi-tasking while listening to music would help. lol...
In budget models- left and right. Mid tier - here and there. That's as far as I've gotten.
Audiophile terms to describe stuff are kinda dumb tbh.
Second then
First again !
nobody care