Max SPL of Ported vs. Sealed Subwoofer Arrays
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Your Questions Wanted! Do you have questions about Home Theater, Acoustics, AV equipment and scinece that you want me to address in my upcoming videos? Just drop them below in comments , and if you want to GUARANTEE your question gets answered in my future videos, simply add an TH-cam Feature "$THANKS" to your comment. Your support is invaluable, and I can't wait to delve into your inquiries and make these videos even more engaging together!
If you'd like to book a private acoustic consultation with me or interested in purchasing the right Home Theater equipment please send your request through our website: www.poesacoust...
We proudly carry Perlisten speakers, Real Acoustix acoustic treatments, Trinnov processer, RTJ subwoofers, etc.
Follow me:
TH-cam: Subscribe to this Channel / poesacoustics
Website: www.poesacoust...
Facebook: / poesacoustics
Instagram: / poesacoustics
Email: matt@poesacoustics.com
This is an EXCELLENT explanation on subwoofer performance within the broader topic of how Trinnov’s waveforming works. These short videos are incredibly informative. Thanks,Matt!
Would love to hear more about ported versus sealed subs.
When you say a ported sub really only has more output in the octave at/above the port tuning, that sounds like a lot of benefit to me, since that would mean one gets that 6db bump from say 20 to 40hz (one octave) where is it most difficult to achieve.
Similarly, how it is that a sealed sub loads a room better in the 20-40hz region versus a ported sub. Isn't output = output in the same frequency range in the same room in the sense that the room doesn't know that (for example) 30hz tone is coming from a ported sub or a sealed sub?
I've been impressed with how room gain lifts the low end of my 15" sealed sub. Near, field it's dropping fast by 20hz. In room, I'm applying small amounts of EQ in the mid teens to reduce the volume to keep the response flat.
Great info regarding sealed vs ported output thanks to
Thank you for the very helpful video. I have a pair of Ascendo 16 subs in the front corners of my 13x17x10 room. My plan all along was to add an Ascendo 24 for the back of my room.
I am still thinking this would give me better infrasonic than if I were to go with more 16s. I don’t know really.
Thanks for great explanation. I dont think i ever will get a waveforming sub setup, but the ported vs sealed clarification is great ☺️
Matt, You said your subs are on the floor and that's not where they belong. I agree. As an experiment in my room because of a video by Dennis from Acoustic Fields about putting subs at different heights I placed my 8" sub on a temporary 14" riser and I'm very happy with the results. I plan to build a 24" riser for it and riser for my 12" sub to match the center height of the cones. Fingers crossed that there will be an improvement. Getting great bass is nearly as difficult as finding firewood on Mars.
All the best, Kevin
Hi Kevin,
You likely misunderstood the context. If you place a typical subwoofer on a stand like that, you create a floor bounce effect. This adds another peak and dip to the response. Floor placement is usually desirable.
I have Waveforming which works best to produce a planar wave when placed at specific locations off the floor. This wouldn’t apply to other setups.
@@PoesAcoustics Matt, You are rightly very respected in the audio biz and thank you very much for your reply.
My sub(s) have been moved to nearly every inch of the floor in my living room in the search for tight powerful bass/LFE. I never found that unless I stood up from my seat. Since I tried each sub on that temporary stand most of the response I have been looking for is present. I watched Equalizer 3 and when the car exploded it was like it happened in my living room. I was shocked by it to say the least. So, I will be building a heavy base for the 12" SVS sub with high hopes of gaining even better performance. I'll let you know what happens.
Another great video Matthew. Maybe I'm not entirely appreciating the arrays correctly, but it seems that Waveforming really lends itself to in-wall or infinite baffle subs. So, theoretically with regards to the multiple subs, would 4 good quality in wall 10"-12" subs placed at the 1/4 horizontal and vertical points per Trinov's placement guide on the front wall and 2 at the 1/2 h/v point in the rear render an effect of equal quality as using floor standing subs on stands at the same places? Building shelves to support 100+ lb subs could be challenging (and not be aesthetically pleasing in the rear). For example, using SVS subs just as an example, six of their new 3000 in-walls ($3000/pair) versus 6 SB4000 ($1600 ea) sitting on shelves.
As long as the sub enclosure is 20” deep or less, any box sub can be used for these arrays. I’ve never used it with in walls. Only big box subs.
Love this channel 💯 awesome job
Hi Matt, I was curious about combining a ported sub (port tuned to 19hz) with a pair of sealed subs (-3db 26hz with DSP and PEQ adjustable). Is my thought correct that I would have less issues with this setup, due to the lower port tuning and higher roll off of the sealed subs? Thanks in advance.
I suspect if you are running sealed and ported in parallel the phase alignment might be less than ideal as the phase shift is greater with the ported, meaning aligning over a medium frequency range will be harder, but less of an issue I think as you go below the first room node
Great video. I'm using 4x JTR RS1s in my room and the deep bass is amazing, I would never see myself going back to ported due to room gain. One issue I think people are running into now is our beloved JTR RS1s have gotten so expensive and more recently they stopped offering the passive version (separate amp) because there is the RTJ version (which is huge money). What are people building rooms now supposed to do for affordable subwoofers? Especially passive ones because with waveforming it gets very cumbersome to hang powered subs.
Thank you. I’ll answer your question in my upcoming videos
How far back behind your seating do your rear subs need to be for optimal wave forming in your testing
Waveforming requires the subs to be something like 15-20 inches from the boundary (front or rear wall). The subs can’t be against the couch. They need to basically be on wall and you really don’t want very deep subwoofers. If it’s a big ported subwoofer with a 40” depth, that may not work optimally. Low profile on-wall subs really work best. Easiest to place.
Hi, Matt
Thank you for the great explanation, but I have a question. When my sofa is placed back against the wall, do I need a rear subs? I suppose that the front wave and the reflected wave come at my listening position at (almost) the same time. Thank you
There are different ways to handle this issue. One is to cancel the reflection off the rear wall. Works best with planar waves. This needs a front and rear sub array (not one sub).
The other involves exciting modes more uniformly around the room. This requires subs in different locations. Including front and rear typically. Where the seats go is less of an issue for this. This is related to the room as a whole. But the back wall is often problematic. Bass buildup is very high. Poor envelopment from surrounds. So it’s a compromised enough seat that having subs in the back or not is maybe not the biggest concern.
While I know this is quite common I will still always recommend the couch is pushed forward at least 1 meter.
Is a ported sub with port plugs in the same as a sealed?
Thank you! Speaking of nearfield, would it be feasible in a small room (12x29) to run only NF/VNF subwoofers? What are some potential up or downsides from doing so?
Matt, are you using a Trinnov alt16 or Trinnov32. And what is your channel configuration? I want to do 9.4.4 I think. Thx
Would there be any point to building my front subs in an array for waveforming if I’ll likely never own a trinnov?
It’s universally beneficial if you can provide the DSP for the rear array too.
I’m looking to implement CWF when it’s released in Aug. In my experience (my room), my dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2 (port tune is 16hz 1 port open) still outperforms quad HSU ULS-15 Mk2 (2 front 2 rear) in the deep deep bass. I heard a demo room with PWF setup and I wasn’t as impressed as I was expecting with that many subwoofers. The VTF-15H Mk2 can be put into sealed mode for PWF to complement the ULS-15 Mk2 but I’m not sure how that would work with different depths. I’ve got a VTF-TN1 coming I can further experiment with.
Regarding one's affinity for and reluctance to get rid of nearfied subs, good luck.
I'd suggest it's likely more complex than simply eliminating the nearfield because of superior acoustic response of a platform or approach.
The nearfield enthusiast gets an experience that can only be achieved by a nearfield setup.
That said, I'm down for all the time and freq domain manipulation we can achieve.
What lies ahead via ever more powerful, more transparent dsp, I can only imagine.
Exciting times.
FOH
You can’t sit in the near field of a sub. That’s a misnomer. The wavelengths are so long that by the time tone is registered the waves have already reflected off numerous boundaries at recombined. It really doesn’t matter where you sit. The room is still there and part of what you hear.
Now the ability of the near field placement to increase tactility is another matter. Certainly placing a subwoofer against a couch is going to increase bass tactility. I would argue there are other and better ways to achieve that however.
@@PoesAcoustics
Agreed, you're right. There's multiple best practice approaches to achieve a high performance experience.
It may not be for everyone. However, my contention is nothing can elicit the effect of a well executed nearfield approach.
Yes, I'm familiar with tone and pitch definition re psychoacoustic perception.
I wasn't as clear as I needed to be, ... a nearfield sub's attributes aren't necessarily related to superior 𝘢𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 response from typical approaches.
Yes, tactility, impact, immediacy. The physics of what I'm referencing can't be replicated via traditional positioning.
But big picture, it's one element of a system. The overall execution of the entire loudspeaker/room interface is paramount above all else.
TLDR; nothing like a well done nearfield setup.
Thanks
How much does the package cost on the Trinov portal?
Is there a published or white paper on wave forming ?
What package? What portal? Not clear what you mean.
They have not published any articles. However there are numerous videos where Arnaud presents how it works. I did one of the first interviews with him explaining Waveforming.
I believe they had avoided writing any papers until the parents were filed and cleared. Those have since cleared and so I imagine more is coming.
www.trinnov.com/en/subwoofer-guidelines/
This is the closest thing to a white paper they have.
@@PoesAcoustics The download to run waveform on an Altitude 16?
Who is making popular column subwoofers?
Rel passive subs best for music 🎶
According to REL. but I’ve never bought it. Their subs aren’t magical and their performance isn’t unique or special. In fact for the money, we have consistently found them to range from sub-par to mediocre to average. Their best subs are not bad, but for the money, so is the competition. There are better subwoofers for that money.
I have an REL T-5X in my modest music only setup and find the response to be excellent for music. I'm sure it would struggle for a home theater.
POE
Power of Ethernet?
@@PoesAcoustics Poe Over Everyone 🎉