The TRUTH about playing RPGs besides D&D
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- I keep hearing the same misconceptions about learning and playing TTRPGs other than D&D. Let's break 'em down! ▶️ More below! ⏬
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00:00 this part will make sense in a minute
01:09 dnd 5e is a great game, but...
02:21 you DO have time to play a new game
04:20 you CAN learn a new game
07:04 you CAN convince your players!
09:40 the only reason to play only one game
10:40 we can learn new games together! :)
#dnd #ttrpg #dungeonsanddragons - เกม
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Great dice. Will use them again tomorrow :D
"A fantasy world without pizza is no fantasy of mine," got an immediate like from me.
🍕 ♥
I had hotdogs available in a game and was met with some comical resistance. Apparently I was breaking immersion more that than a group named "Tainted Love" whose signature move as to throw the halfling bard like a grenade, so she could thunderwave then misty step back.
@@BobWorldBuilder I still want pizza. Even the TH-cam algorithm should have noticed this by now! 🍕🤤
Same tho
This is the same reason Middle Earth has potatoes and Westeros has maize. It's a time honoured tradition.
My core group (3.5 years strong) plays in what we refer to as "adventures". These adventures are understood to last between 10 to 20 sessions. After 10 sessions we begin to pay attention to the the goings on the story and look for an appropriate place to have an ending. When the end comes we discuss epilogues etc. Then the GM steps down and another player of the group steps up with the system of their choice and GMs the next adventure. In the last 3.5 years we have played roughly 9 adventures over 6 different systems. Its fun, I recommend it.
That sounds amazing
This sounds awesome.
You lucky git! 😄 That sounds like a great gaming group.
This sounds like the most healthy game group I've ever read about in a comment on the internet!
Internet, we found the unicorn.
'You don't need to have mastered a system to play it' - 100% this. Generations of teens and preteens have started D&D games without understanding the first thing about the rules. As long as you are willing to roll with it, you can have a good time.
As a player: Sure. For GMs i kinda disagree. A GM constantly bumbling around and getting shit wrong can seriously ruin the game for everyone.
If mastery was required, I don't think my first group would've ever started!
@@BobWorldBuilder Mastery isn't required but reasonable competency is. And if you are picking up a new system outside of d20 systems for the first time, it's going to take quite a time commitment to gain any type of competency (well, depending on the system).
@@seb24789 I see where you're coming from, and only partially agree. Ideally yes, a GM should know the rules at least as well as their players. However, being a good GM has little to do with knowing the rules of a given system. You can break all kinds of game/system rules and still have a good time.
This is especially true for more rules-light systems, where there aren't many rules to know in the first place. (and let's be honest, D&D in almost any edition is one of the most rules-heavy TTRPG's out there.)
To back that up: I started 21 years ago with Star Wars D6 and had learnt the rules well, but my friends and I wanted to play some med-fan. No access to rpg books where I lived, and internet wasn't yet a thing, so I took my Warhammer Battle rule book and homebrew a system out of it. Most of it was improvised or super simplified. Still some of the best sessions in my life, and the lack of proper rules didn't get in the way because I took it upon myself as GM to make rulings whenever my basic ruleset didn't cover the action in question. It's good training for GMing in general!
One-Shots to try new systems could be a good way to get a game in when one of the regular game players can't make it.
Exactly! :)
That's what we're doing in my group!
One shots are my favorite trap to get my group to try other things.
They start a one shot and spend the entire session in the first room and they are eager to see what comes next.
Before you know it, they are on a 6 month adventure.
"Well guys, Bill couldn't make it, but I prepared This so we can have some fun while he's out, without you guys having to juggle his half-conscious body for a session."
Games like Blades In The Dark are very useful this way. In BitD players run a criminal crew in a fantasy Victorian setting, and they undertake a series of 'scores'. It's very simple to ensure that the score can be completed in one session and its easy to explain why some members of the crew don't participate in every score.
In my game, our local tavern owner invented a "Flat Food" where she bakes a thin disc of bread and puts spices and meats and cheese and sauces on it. Yes, she literally "invented" pizza, because I agree - "A fantasy world without pizza is no fantasy of mine."
🍕 ♥
Ahh the cooked large open sandwich .. why is round, it just seemed right ...
After all, modern pizzas are merely a refinement after the introduction of tomatoes (and later also other toppings from the New World like maize) of a staple food (particularly in - but not limited to - the lands on the Mediterranean Sea) that has been recorded since ancient times and even predates written history by thousands of years.
Same. I have my gnomes take inspiration from Italians and new yorkers, with pizza being one of the many dishes they've innovated.
There's a reason a number of different cultures invented something very much like pizza: Flatbread is simple to make, and pizza is basically just flatbread covered with whatever spare ingredients/leftovers you happen to have handy, and heated. I'd be very surprised if any mediaeval fantasy setting with bread *didn't* invent something like pizza.
I did try running Shadowdark for one session. All of my players voted to switch to Shadowdark from 5E immediately. I was quite happy with the result
Haha now that's a testimonial!
For the record, I see this exact comment pop up quite frequently about Shadowdark! It seems The Arcane Library achieved the goal she set out to achieve: making an old-school style game with the best aspects of 5e included to make it palatable for forever-5e players.
Shadowdark is still repackaged DnD
@@BobWorldBuilder I've been using the pizza analogy for years, although what I say is that while lots of people love pizza, everyone has their own favorite toppings. Some love plain, some meat lovers, veggies, supreme, whatever. We all love TTRPGs, it's just what specific rules and flavor that you find you enjoy most. Try a few different ones before you decide. ;)
@@zico81 And there... isn't anything really wrong with that. D&D didn't get worse overnight. There are merits and downsides to each edition. And some people just don't want to support WotC anymore.
WOTC: "Nope, Pizza only! Please don't go to Critical Role's House of Dining or get Tales of the Valiant's Take-Out!"
I'm hungry for Daggerheart!
got a friend to play MÖRK BORG for the first time last weekend. They had 1hp and burned to death just before the end of the session. Great times were had.
Sounds like Mork Borg haha
My Tortle Monk is from the Order of Za, his mission in life is to spread the knowledge of Za throughout the realm. He carries a scratch recipe for Za with him, always, and will ask every tavern owner to make it and copy the recipe if they like it. Cowabunga, dudes.
Hahah yessss!
It doesn't appear that Pathfinder 2E has a tortle conversion yet, but I'm going to make one just to have that character come through my players Kingmaker kingdom once they get it built up a bit.
…..Is…is he also a ninja? Please tell me a ninja in some way.
@@Sorrior Way of Shadow, practices the art of invisibility.
@@jamesdavid1874 that is indeed perfection.
My group tries new games as one-shots or mini-campaigns all the time. Most often when I need a break to prep the next session, or I just want to play instead of run. It totally reinvigorates me and the other players.
This is the way!
I've managed to convince my players to try a couple fantasy systems like PF2 and Starfinder, and my cousin seems to only play obscure non D&D TTRPGs. There are so many reasons to try new games, especially right now!
Yep, it seems like most of the obscure games out here are little zine RPGs that are very easy to learn!
I got into the hobby during a time (late 2nd edition - Late 90's) where enjoying D&D was akin to loving Vanilla ice cream. I still played a lot of D&D 3.0 back in the day, but most people were way more into Vampire the masquerade and / or GURPS.
The 90s may not have been the best decade for RPGs, but it deserves recognition as the decade in which D&D's domination of the hobby was at its weakest.
Vanilla ice cream, pizza, not much has changed haha
@@bjhale definitely. the late 90's were the only time the RPG community was not almost all focused on D&D. The only other era like that was during D&D4e when people switched to PF, but since it is basically D&D 3.75, it doesn't count.
@@bjhale Just like Overwatch is a good game when Roadhog is not meta, the ttrpg hobby is better when D&D is not dominant.
My group tries out other systems any time one of our players has to miss a session. It has worked out really well for us.
Fantastic video, man. Pizza is also my favorite food (lol) and I was just flipping through my own PHB. The wave of nostalgia was so intense and emotional.
Looking forward to (hopefully) having a chance to meet and roll bones this fall!
My players won't switch because they're allergic to new things and change. Regardless of how "easy" the switch may be in reality, it's new which makes it scary.
Coincidentally I'm also looking for a new group. It's not going well
Pretty much this, everyone has to agree that they want to play the new game. Then you need someone who wants to GM the new game. It's easier to find players online but if in person is your thing than you're at the mercy of your players likes and dislikes.
Try just doing a one shot. That’s something most people can stomach. Especially if you can make it seasonal! For example recommend doing Call of Cuthulhu, Insomnia, or Ten Candles around Halloween. It makes people more likely to try it if it’s a small investment upfront
Again, it may be that they just really love the current system, so that's fine. But if they can't stomach a single one shot of a new game (maybe a holiday session using another system), keep looking for that new group!
@@wingedhussar2909 Yeah typically the person who wants to try a new system should step up to run a one shot. If the rest of the group doesn't even want to play a single one shot of a different game, the current game better be the greatest campaign ever lol
For clarification, I'm the group's forever GM, I have at least one player who absolutely refuses to play anything other than Dnd, and this player's stubbornness has been a problem in the past. Also the group is too small to continue playing without even one player, and there are several other reasons I'm dissolving the group.
I'm looking for online pathfinder groups, I found one that was nice at first but after 2 sessions we're already on hiatus because the DM has a livestream that runs at the same time as our games and no other time slot in the week works for all of us 😑
It is WAY too hard to find a competent GM these days
(Also the only reason I'm not trying to GM a pathfinder game is because I have no experience in the system. Once I learn it I'll start running games if I can find players)
Bob... you already made me question my love of Fogotten Realms. I got Star Wars Edge of Empire... Im loving the campaign I've started to create, and the Dice are fun.
Cool! I haven't explored that part of the RPG world yet myself! haha
I love that you're throwing so much love to other systems. The truth is that WotC is going to be a problem for a long time and we need to make sure we don't let the small competition die out, because then WotC can do whatever they want.
Thanks! The rough part is that WotC can do whatever they want--but the good news is that so can we!!
Always remember that there are 3rd Party creators who haven't switched from 5e who need your support as well
@@davidioanhedges Maybe they should...? Why would I support creators for a game I am no longer playing?
@@CrizzyEyes Because they are not WoTC they are creators of 3rd Party content for a game that was and still is very popular, and WoTC tried to screw, and are trying very hard to screw again ...
You should try and support them so they can either transition away from the game they have a lot of investment in ... or survive until 5e stops being WoTC ...
@@davidioanhedges There's lots of channels that cover D&D almost exclusively. Even Bob does lots of D&D related content. I honestly wish TH-camrs would cover more 3rd party content for D&D and ignore WotC. WotC is toxic and largely irrelevant to TTRPG's.
The hardest part about trying new gaming systems is inertia within the gaming community. Lots of people just aren't interested in trying new things, and that's been the case for the 45 yeas I've been doing TTRPG's. Well...maybe in the 80's it wasn't quite so bad because at that point, even D&D was kind of new. I can remember playing tons of new games like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Middle Earth Role Playing System, GURPs, the systems for Marvel and DC super heroes (as well as the generic Hero system for superhero games), and a bunch of others. But, by the mid-90's, it was a lot harder to find people interested in playing things other than AD&D 2e (though I seem to remember Vampire the Masquerade getting popular in my area then). This stayed the same into the 2000's and early 2010's.
But, I think now is actually a lot better. I've seen tons of different games come and go over the years, largely because of the difficulty in finding play groups. But, with things like Roll20 being around, it makes it easier to find people to play with even for the more niche game systems. This doesn't do away with the inertia that I mentioned above, but it does make it easier to find people to play a game if your own play group isn't interested in something new.
Yeah D&D is the bulk of the hobby, and there's nothing wrong with that. Now there are more games than ever, and it's fun to try a one shot of something new once in a while!
Did you know WHFRP got a 4th edition just a few years ago? And it kicks ass?
i've been playing TTRPG since 1982, and even wrote some in french since 2008. I played almost all D&D editions (Basic D&D, Expert D&D, AD&D1 & 2, D&D3, D&D3.5,Dnd5...) but somehow, somewhere, i always ended up playing or gming something else. I enjoy gming one of two D&D campaigns, before moving away to another game, or several other games, for a few years. There are so many specific mechanics tied to D&D no matter the edition (for example : combat is based on attrition and the game revolves around lots of random encounters, or dungeon skirmishes), i can enjoy them when i feel like playing like that, and i can discard my D&D books for years because i'm in need of something else.
It's a lot like eating out : you can be a regular pizza guy and still enjoy months of sushi or tacos, before going back to your favourite pizza, or the new thing from your favorite pizza guys. It's not, it's never "versus", it's just trying to see how different things taste, so you can enjoy switching back and forth from the system you and friends like the most (big surprise : it might not even be the system you began playing with, and this has nothing to do with this system being or not being the current D&D iteration or whatever).
Well said!
Our group is ending a looong 5e campaign in our next session. Then I am doing a Savage Worlds Summer One Shot Fest. Our highschool RPG group will meet weekly, 14+ teens and growing, at the local game store. Then our adult group will continue the same biweekly sessions, but using various one shots. Players past that can't commit to a long term campaign are welcome to join in the fun or new players that need a group. Then in the fall we will pick our favorite setting and play till next summer.
God speed!
Honestly, I prefer trying systems and settings that are very unlike D&D. I enjoy how very different they are from the classic "d20, roll high, str, dex, con, int, wis, cha" of so many D&D derivatives.
- Heavy Gear RPG (1+d6, roll high, wounds give cumulative penalties)
- Fate (4dfate, roll high, aspects instead of stats, has fate points to encourage interesting-but-non-optimal choices)
- White Wolf (multiple d10s, roll high, success determined by how many dice roll above the target amount)
- 7th Sea 1e (1+d10, roll high, 10s explode, drama dice let you be A SWASHBUCKLING GOD)
- Firefly (2 dice but which particular ones depend on your stats, roll high, fate points allow you more dice)
So many cool, interesting mechanics that look nothing like D&D but are nonetheless super-fun to experiment with.
Yep it's all about taste!
The three questions do work for DnD-like/OSR games but it's really not that easy for anything outside that.
Blades in the Dark for example is a very simple game but it has so many "stages" of things like actions and types of scenes that it does require a bit of a learning curve for someone not used to this type of game, on the other hand these same numerous "stages" easily allow for a GM to come to session with LITERALLY 0 PREP and I've GMed it recently and was blown away on how naturally running a game with no prep at all was.
Idk, I think it covers Call of Cthulhu pretty well as mentioned in the video, especially if you include the other questions I mentioned about getting the basics of combat and spellcasting. You're right though that I've mostly been experimenting with D&D like games
as someone who loves and enjoys blades i do think it can be broken down to pretty easy basics of using the Dice pool as your resolution system and kinda go from there, you dont have to run the game in "Stages" infact the creator of the game has videos up of him running the game for people and they dont use the "stages" at all he just has them roll their stats when a situation calls for it.
@@Zertryx yeah he probably can do it a lot smoother than I did but for my first time GMing in, the Downtime alone was quite a lot to handle, 4 steps in order that on their own made its own scene without needing me to come up with anything.
Hmmmm but now that I think about it, the whole video was sort of saying the 3 questions aimed towards general gameplay and not specifics like GMing, so yeah for a Blades player the three questions definitely work!
but yeah some games like for example wanderhome doesn't have dice or stats. so you werent wrong about those 3 questions not working for all rpgs
I played D&D and had dominoes pizza just last night…
But then there are days when we get a local New York style pizza and run Blades in the Dark.
Both sound great!
Our group did convert our ongoing game to pathfinder, not because of the OGL but because we're kind of done with 5e jank, especially after we hit lvl 13.
We have also played Shadowrun and Call of Cthulhu, which are both good fun for nearly entirely opposite reasons. We have been wanting to try some other systems too, I'm still a bit iffy on whether DCC would be a good fit for this group but seeing some of the things on this channel has made me heavily consider trying it at least once.
Overall, I think there's just too much worth exploring to limit yourself to one system even if it was perfect for what it was trying to achieve, there are simply other types of experiences that the one game could never begin to grasp.
That's all awesome! Keep exploring!
DCC is a little on the crunchy side compared to some other OSR games. I know that Shadowdark and Knave are more streamlined with fewer fiddly things to keep up with. Shadowdark isn't quite out yet (unless you backed its recent Kickstarter), but should be out in a couple of months. Knave is out now, but is also currently running a Kickstarter for a 2nd edition book (the 1st ed .pdf is only $3).
We have a 5e Campaign, but we are running a Fallout 2d20 campaign and a Pathfinder 2e campaign. We just meet every other Friday for those ones and every Wednesday is the normal D&D game. I'd say I like Modiphius's 2d20 system, it is FAR more varied and less swingy than D&D, for your example. it is 2D20 Roll: Low Stats: Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility and Luck (S.P.E.C.I.A.L.) oh and the Group Pool of Action Points. Best part is the level of Collaborative Story telling, if you Crit Fail you describe the disadvantage NOT the DM, or you can not and the Monsters( Mutants, Raiders, etc) get an Action Point in their pool. I've been playing D&D some 30 years and I find this system refreshing and new.
Sounds like you have a great group! :)
Never thought I'd see myself back in a video, but it's really cool that it happened! I'm glad to hear you think my reason is a good one :) Thank you for all the content Bob
Thanks for the good comment! :)
We did this exact thing tonight with DCC and it was great
Heck yeah!
'Harness the fun of other RPGs' is my personal class, alignment, and religion!
If only people were used to talk online with your register, open mindedness and kindness, online RPG communities would be magical places.
We switch from 5e to 3.5 and Star Wars. We enjoy the changes
Which Star Wars? I love 3.5 and the SW Saga edition. Best customization games I've played aside from Mutants and Masterminds.
@@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758 yes saga
It amazes me that 5e has been around long enough for someone to feel nostalgic about it. I'm so old.
I've been playing since 2E, and man, I just keep feeling older! At least I was only a kid in those days...
Well, not _nostalgic_ necessarily... just emotionally attached.
Definitely dig the video. Honestly, my biggest hurdle is just finding a consistent group, or even a group willing to *start*. I've played probably fewer than 20 sessions so far, and I'd like to take a stab at DM'ing a campaign, but it's shocking hard to meet folks who want to give it a shot.
I think the best thing about new RPGs is a new genre. I am two sessions into a Super Hero campaign, session 3 this weekend. There is so much more out there than just Fantasy RPGs.
This. The range of genres out there, and games built for those genres, is vast... and there are plenty of people out there who don't particularly care for D&Desque heroic fantasy.
What a fantastic video Bob. I run games for my family of five - including me - and finding time is hard, but I homebrew so much from so many different systems. You captured this idea perfectly. Whatever makes the adventure the best it can be for you and your players - that’s the key!
Got your dice and LOVE THEM! Thanks for all you do, and KEEP BUILDING!
Thanks for getting a set!! :)
Also, outside of the fantasy realm a shout out for Alien RPG which is very easy to learn and you can teach it as you go while playing. Plus the setting is just so rich and dripping with atmosphere. Very few actual mechanics to learn just like the ones mentioned.
This is a great video! I like a lot of your videos Bob...maybe its how relaxed and calm you are with everything and how you don't lose the sense of logic within, at times, an emotional issue with how people view how to handle being screwed over. My group and I are deep within a PF2e homebrew campaign of mine, but we have elected for one of my players to GM a PF2e within the world of Golorian at the end of the month, and we've also chosen to play other systems once in awhile just to not rush everything and try new things. I've played a lot of other RPGs, but not everyone at my table has and they want to try things out...doing one shots within those other RPGs is a good way to introduce it. So this is a perfect video for people to see!
I just converted my ongoing campaign from Pizz! I mean D&D to Pf2e and it didn't really cause many issues. Just learning rules as we go, but that's about it
Awesome! It's good to hear examples of that working out! :)
I have enjoyed creating one shots to try new games. It’s how I’ve got to run EZd6, ShadowDark, and (soon) Numenera. It’s also how I got to play Dungeon World.
Excellent!
Dungeon World is my favourite RPG. It's a tough one to sell new players on though, because it's completely different in play-method than any other RPG I've run. Once the players get it, they enjoy it though. Just have to think about things in a different fashion - I'd also argue it's a bit more work on the DM. Great game though - just reading the book should be like a role--playing primer.
@@oskar6661 it’s different. I’m not sure how I feel about PbtA, but I’m glad I played it.
I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but your video about Cairn made me seriously consider trying out a non-D&D traditional fantasy rpg for the first time. And not just consider, but feel EXCITED about!
I've played a handful of other game systems targeting wildly different game genres (Call of Cthulhu, Mistborn RPG, Doctor Who RPG, Alien the RPG, I even got to playtest an obscure indy game called Summon Skate.), and I love all of those for their unique niches. To me, D&D is THE traditional fantasy RPG. I've tried Pathfinder & didn't like it. I started with 4e and did like it. But if I want something other than traditional fantasy, I'm likely to look towards a completely different system.
Yeah it's all about taste. I'm mostly into fantasy, so I like seeing how other fantasy games do it differently :)
@@BobWorldBuilder Fair, fair. Fantasy is definitely my favorite genre in general. What intrigues me about Cairn is how rules-light it is, while still capturing the feel of a traditional fantasy game. Mistborn is a fascinating comparison point, though, since it not only has a unique dice mechanic, but is a fun blend of rules-light and oddly-specific. Especially with having both medieval & wild west settings to choose from.
To combat "Forever DM" and system fatigue, my group years ago rotated GMs, which led to multiple campaigns through various systems. WEG Star Wars, Shadowrun, Hero, or whatever system the GM would use. We would play that campaign for a full story arc, usually 3 -4 sessions, and then rotate to the next GM. That gave everyone a chance to play different systems, and it gave the GMs who normally ran exclusively to play. It also gave not forever GMs a chance to run, and get some sessions under their belt.
We rotated GMs as well but I pretty soon discovered that I love to GM and I also think I'm better at GMing than I am at playing I got stuck being a "Forever GM". And I love to switch systems. Since you mentioned Shadowrun, at the moment I'm reading into 6e and I'm preparing a Shadowrun campaign but the rules are ... well, yes, nobody ever played Shadowrun for the rules 😂
😂 you totally got me on your side with the pizza argument! Oh boy...Bob you have to come to Italy some day! 😊 Anyway, on the ttrpg subject, I always homebrew the 5e rules with cool stuff from other games. In the current campaign, we are using 5 torches deep classes, DCC magic and warriors deeds, along with variable proficiency with 1d4 dice and hero points. And it's a very good "pizza" 😊
Hahah glad you enjoyed that! And that sounds like a graet pizza!--I mean--great game!
I ordered cairn because of your other video. I've wanted to GM for a while now, but the complexity of 5e was holding me back from trying. I ordered the soft booklet cause I prefer reading actual paper than pdf files, and I love the anticipation of waiting and joy of when things like this arrive. Expecting it through the letterbox any day now and I'm incredibly excited! Thanks so much
These types of vídeos are always interesting to me, because DnD was the "new system I wanted to try" for many years.
I started playing RPGs with GURPS and Tormenta, so getting into other stuff (like my favourite, Savage Worlds) was relatively painless.
Also, my current group of ~4 years goes with whatever bullshit I throw at them. 😅
I’m lucky to have a good group too. We just like to play games.
Yeah my players don't really care about system. They're a buncha casuals!! haha and I love them
Bob I appreciate how you speak about anything. Respectful
Thank you! :)
I too love Pizza! Lately it feels like I've been trying different kinds of Pizza myself =P Thanks for the shoutout, and keep up the fun and positive content, I love it!
4:20 I'm currently trying to understand how PbtA works, and it's quite obscure, and the one thing everyone agrees on (my experience confirms it; it was fun to just hang out with interesting people, - can't say the same about my experience with Pathfinder, but it's off-topic, - but the game itself just didn't work) is that it will suck if you run/play it wrong. I guess it's kinda unick for this engine (it has a reputation for being pretty restrictive), but it makes me to question this argument a bit.
I love PbtA but yeah these games are very restrictive, the moves try to take you into an specific flow to compensate for the fact that the GM doesn't have to do much prep at all.
It has very little space for the "ruling over rules" mantra but again it's not a problem, it's a trade-off you get for the non-prep GM side of things.
@@Grepehu I mean, some sources say that you can only do whatever is in your character sheet and you can't attempt anything else (which meant "if you don't have any moves suitable for the situation, you are doing nothing" in our case). Others say that you can attempt anything, but everything that doesn't fall into any move is auto-success or auto-failure, what's logical. I don't say it's bad. But it seems like "you roll 2d6 + appropriate modifier, 10+ is a success, 7+ is partial success" really isn't enough for the game that anyone will enjoy.
@@nabra97 I mean, there are always basic moves for everyone that usually contemplate every kind of action, so even if your character doesn't have a move for that it can still do it with basic moves.
But yeah I totally get what you're saying, it's not for everyone but I find it very enjoyable and I've had a lot more fun with this than 5e, I think any play style is not for everyone.
@@Grepehu I probably fail to clearly explain my point( I don't mind that it's not for everyone (there are no systems that work for everyone). I'm just trying to say that you can't play it without knowing what you are doing, just knowing what to roll, as Bob suggests. At least it's my impression, you may have a different experience with this one either.
I've skimmed a few PBtA systems (going to play my first session later this month), and if I remember correctly it's just: 2d6 roll high. Of course, the stats will be a little different for each PBtA system. Then you dip into the other questions I mentioned--are they're classes (sort of, "playbooks" with specific moves), basics of combat and spellcasting (I *think* these are also handled by 2d6 rolls). Like I said, I haven't played one yet, but I'm pretty sure that would cover most of the gameplay.
Yes! Been thinking about this a lot lately... But something that comes up with many folks I know and see is they only game once, or MAYBE twice a month, and if that's their only chance they go for the "pizza". They're not willing to gamble those precious few gaming meets.
Fantastic analogy, you'll never know what your favorite foods are if you don't try them first!
In an analogous manner:
I take frozen store pizza and customize it. Scrambled eggs (with habanjero sauce mixed in, duh), extra bell peppers especially the sweeter yellow and orange ones a bit pre-grilled, anchovies from the jar if we have some for 1/4 of the pizza, some shredded 5-cheese over top to keep it all together. Or really whatever is in the fridge. As long as it isn't too much work because I hate spending time on meal prep.
It's great. Drawdown aging inventory. Add to the sparse corpo offerrings. Adds flavor.
Haha yeah my 5e pizza is can be a real mish mash
Never really felt that much of a desire to play another system until just recently when I discovered call of catthulhu. It’s a ttrpg with the same eldritch themes as call of Cthulhu but you play as cats instead. All my players and I love cats, so I’m now teaching myself the system so that hopefully we can play it some time
Its sounds unique!😂
YES to all of this. Splendid Metaphor, fantastic video and message. Thanks Bob!
As Argyle said to Mike when he was hesitant to try a slice of pineapple pizza that Argyle brought over, "You must try before you deny" so get out there and eat different pizza 🍕, try it with different toppings!
Variety is the spice of life!
Speaking of…I’ve been diving into DCC more and more and I’m loving it. Also SUPER excited for Shadowdark which I kicked. I read some of the digital assets they made available and it’s going to be so fun to run and play.
Haha xD great quote and great comment! Thank you
Great work, Bob. You're ageing like fine wine. God bless!
Thanks for the kind words!
There is something to be said about being focused on a campaign.
I played with another guy, who would try a new system each week and we were never able to get anything done.
You can do both! We have had campaigns that have lasted anywhere from like 10-30 sessions in different systems. It doesn’t have to be exclusively DnD and you absolutely don’t have to play DND at all. I’ve been playing TTRPGS for 15 years and I have only started playing DnD in the last 5 years
Yeah that's definitely not what I meant by one shots haha
@@kathlynmiller4603 I get it.
I just prefer and RPG to be consistent in theme, rules , and scope.
Hence, I run a campaign going on three years, utilizing my own homebrew rules to play D&D.
As a creator and GM, you hit all of the fine points Bob! If there are still stories left to be told in your rpg, just keep playing. Especially if you are having fun.
Thanks for bringing up ICRPG, Shadowdark, and Knave. We've had a lot of fun playing different genres with the first and I'm stoked to run or play something with the other two.
Regarding pizza: If there was only one food I could eat, pizza would be high on the list of candidates. It's essentially an open faced sandwich with cheese, and therefore gives me a lot of variety in my diet, and options for my tastes. If you're going to have to suffer with "just one thing", picking something that offers you the greatest variety within that one choice is smart.
This reminds me of the “you know what, I love D&D too” in the Matt Colville video where he announced the new MCDM TTRPG system. Very nice to have some people saying “it’s okay to still play D&D” so newer players don’t avoid the hobby.
It's still the mainstream gateway to all other RPGs!
Well In europe we don't seem to have the same difficulties to switch games. Of course we play D&D, but we also play a lot of différent things. I have been a GM for 26 years, I own sixty different RPG from Fantasy, Swashbucling adventure, Sword & Sorcery, to pulp, Sci-fi and horror. We play every week and over all these years, I gmed fifteen different games. In fact we rarely play the same game twice in a row. I gmed six D&D campaign along the years. We are actually in our 47th session of D&D5 Ravenloft, with one group and a mini campaign of Advanced Fighting Fantasy with another group. We planned to play Mutant Year Zero and a Savage Worlds campaign after those two. Amongst all the game I own, D&D5 is probably the most crunchy/heavy system, so learn something else is easy. D&D is cool, but not in my top five favorite rpg and never will. And by the Way playing a fanstasy RPG with class and level (DCC, PF2, Castle & Crusade, ...) is still eating a pizza (you could argue about different mechanics such as Dungeon World for exemple). People could try Savage Worlds, Year Zero Engine,, FATE, Everywhen, Vortex, PBTA, Ubiquity, 2D20, Storyteller system, Call of Cthulhu,... and so many more.
With you, Bob, even becoming vegan couldn't diminish my love of pizza.
🍕✊
I loved the dead pan at the beginning Bob! You’re branching out, great job!
Exactly right. 5e,4e,OSE, DCC--it all comes down to you roll high on a d20. Great video. Only now I want pizza.
As a player i enjoy crunchy games like Pathfinder because i have only my character to worry about
As a GM i prefer to run game systems like Cypher because it just clears up soo much bookkeeping
Agreed, I think the fact that I mostly GM is what started to push me away from 5e. It just started getting too crunchy with too many character options for my taste.
The sweet spot would be a game with all the crunch of players side of the screen 👍
And it becomes increasingly overwhelming when your players need babysitting with their own characters. However, the slow and clunky combat is something I've been moving away from, either as a player or GM. And as a player I just can't handle binary task resolution, specially for trivial things, and that's something you mostly find among groups that only play the same thing.
I did a quick mental tally, and the number of different TTRPG systems I've played is 50+. Part of the enjoyment for me is seeing how different rule systems help tell different kinds of stories. I do sometimes wish I could have more time to play my favorites, but I never tire of trying something new.
I would recommend "You awaken in a strange place" for a really basic starting place for someone who's never played a ttrpg
I’m not a big fan of 5e but can appreciate aspects of it. And as such I didn’t watch much of your older content. But seeing you get into the OSR sphere has been a pleasure, I feel like I’m discovering it for myself all over again. I really hope you get into Ultraviolet Grasslands. It’s easily the most fun I’ve ever had playing a ttrpg in 25+years.
So far my favorite non d&d fantasy rpg has been Mazes and Minotaurs, which is half ttrpg, half alternate history fiction, where the game itself is from an alternate timeline where the biggest fantasy rpg was based on Homer and Jason instead of Tolkien and Conan. So not only is it a full rpg based on greek mythology, with a phb, gm guide, and mm, but it's also full of these "author's notes" full of the fictional history of the development of this game in the 70s and 80s, even though the game was made in the 2000s. Those are a lot of fun to read, and the system itself feels really cool and gives you the same fantasy gameplay but with an ancient greek vibe.
Now I want pizza... damn you, Bob World Builer!
... but I still have no urge to play DnD.
I played WHFB 2nd edition first, Ran a few games of it, Moved over to Wrath and Glory, Ran a game of it, then Tried Pathfinder 2nd Edition before running my first game of D & D 5e and I have found it to be the best one for my group.
Hey Bob, the timing on this video is perfect! Literally last weekend, one of my D&D players decided he wanted to run Hit Point Press's "SHIFT" RPG, which is currently in beta and looking for feedback.
We've started their published one-shot adventure, and we're going to finish it on Saturday. It's been a whole lot of fun, and we might end up playing it more once it's properly published. It's always good to have a try of something new every now and then!
Played 4e once. Fun game but not a TTRPG for me. Never played 5e. Our campaign is 30+ years old. We are locked into our 3.5e game as we have SO MANY weird amalgam characters. Thoroughly would support any new system, if we had the time.
Sounds like you're still having fun! Perfect example of a group that doesn't need to change!
@@BobWorldBuilder We have SO MANY books! :D
I loved your video and just yesterday Kelly from Dungeon Dudes came pretty much to the same conclusion about D&D v Pathfinder: it's like Coke v Pepsi. They taste different, but are cola-flavored sodas at the end of the day.
Professor Dungeon Master also talked about the concept of "it's all D&D" some time ago.
I'd like to add that I can see 2 other big misconceptions about trying new systems:
1. You have to migrate. It's seems like you have abandon your preview system in order to play another one, as if you could only ever play one system for a couple years. Which as you very well explained with pizza, makes no sense at all.
2. It all boils down to medieval fantasy. Discussions like "Star Wars is just a bunch of Monks in space", "How to make Wolverine or Batman in D&D?", "Is Mando a Ranger?" are commonplace in the community. And as though it may be fun to discuss this, it shows that a major part of the community can't even grasp the idea that RPGs offer a LOT more than just D&D-like fantasy games. I mean, it really surprises me that in a hobby that demands so much imagination, there's only a few people that really wanna explore themes like Cyberpunk, Space Opera, Super Heroes, Horror, Investigation/Noir, Time Travel, Pulp Stories, etc.... there's so much to explore that it feels like a missed opportunity to be forever stuck in medieval d20 level/class-based systems.
Cheers!
I play now for over 25 years and have characters for so many systems. My first was DSA 3 (I am German > The black eye) DSA4 and now DSA5, DnD5, ADnD second, Shadowrun 3 and now 6, Many GURPS Settings (Have a discworld rulebook for GURPS), Call of Cthulhu, Vampire, Changeling and other white wolf stuff, Chill, Deadlands, PPnP, Warhammer 40 000 and Fantasy, Earthdawn and and and :)
That's awesome!
Discovering your channel... Man, your so good. A natural (20!)
Thank you!
Solid, solid video and take. Cyberpunk GM here, and when I have people come over from D&D, they always are surprised that after that first step it's easier than they expected. For example, people always are surprised how fast combat can be in Cyberpunk Red and it's not as deadly as people try to push it to be. Folks do build those misconceptions and don't see through them until they give it a try.
And I get it, I was a 5e DM for 4 years nonstop and felt 5e was the only game that ever needed to exist.
For my sunday game, we started a Pulp Call of Cthulhu in parallel with your 5e game.(1 week D&D, 1 week CoC) I GM the CoC, because it's one my favorite system (and run like 3 or 4 one shot for that group and all love it). Plus it help the GM 5e to have some time off.
Also, one of my players said that he found CoC more easy to learn for the simple reason it's skill based and are simple. If you want to shot someone, roll firearm and that all.
I just noticed your dice roll logo animation at 2:17. Have I just been oblivious all this time or is it new? What a clever frickin logo! :)
Wait; what happened to Bob’s hair
Perfectly put together, Bob. I love trying out other RPGs.
Yup! My group is in the middle of what will probably be another 4 year campaign. But we occasionally do a one shot, or 2-3 session game here or there in a different system with a different DM. I've been running an occasional horror game using Shiver, and we're going to be trying Pirate Borg soon. I also backed Shadowdark. It's fun to try different genres and not agonize over building a character because you can just try something, even if it's not your usual character preference.
I've been playing TTRPGs for 30+ years now, and I've always thought it was weird when people said they only played one kind of game. Then again, I also thought it was weird when I met a dude who said he only listened to classical music. Anyway, glad you're out there helping give folks a little nudge to try new games.
This is pretty much it! A simple one-shot of a fun little game is all it takes! The one night that changed my ttrpg trajectory was playing one game of Turbo Breakers what feels like must’ve been 7 years ago. I still played lots of 5e after that but I only stopped playing the game started frustrating me. You’ll takeaway so much amazing ideas and knowledge from trying a new game that will just greatly improve your 5e game! And it’ll be a fun night with friends, what’s not to love?
My experiences switching systems were horrendous, they ruined our experience with the campaign we were playing and no-one felt comfortable with that changes, and we switched from 5e to pathfinder (every single one of us played 3e and 3.5e). I'll never recommend that! Just open another campaign and if you don't have time, when the one that you are playing ends, just start a new one with a new system.
Loved your video and all your content!!!
(Sorry for the angry message of above hahaha)
Definitely don’t try to switch systems in your campaign. It’s totally fine to just play the same campaign for years. But when your campaign is wrapped up it’s a good time to try something new for even just like 5-10 sessions
Thanks! And yeah, like I said in the video, switching systems is not the best way to try new systems. Just play a one shot!
Yeah I definitely agree you should never continue a game you already started in a different system. It never really works out items in one system are just better than items in another period and it can make all character builds just not really work as well.
Oof, yeah. Conversion is really not an easy task. Better to finish the campaign you're on and move on to a new system after than switch midway through
wotc already on the phone with the Pinkertons- "we have another TH-camr acting up, put the boots to him medium style."
I've been playing multiple game since the early days of D&D, even those with very different systems. D&D, Gamma World, Boot Hill, Star Wars RPG, Car Wars, Traveller, Star Frontiers, the list goes on. For me and many of my players, swapping out with something different is nothing new and always a blast. Excellent video!
Loved this video! And also the haircut looks amazing Bob!!
I 100% love the idea of one shots for a new ttrpg. Running a DCC campaign atm but its been stalled because players are busy. but the two left REALLY want to play. So we are doing some MCC till everyone is back.
Do it!
I've run many different games and systems and I often find that sometimes it can take a few sessions for a new system to really "gel" with a group. Not always. But usually. So many times one session is not enough to really get into a new game! And oh, in my Dolmenwood campaign I have Tom Puck's Pizzeria run by the elven mafia who secretly controls the town.
After Tasha and Xanathar, we'll have the next book: "Wizard's policies against everything"
Great video! Thanks Bob. I admit most all of the things mention here I subscribed to. I haven't changed from 5e this whole time and was totally anxious about ever changing. But. Much to your final point/story of your forst game. We only use 5e books for classes level up features. We make up so much of our own stuff. We use a free tool, have access to everything for no cost. So there's very little incentive to change when 5e works just fine for us.
If you're a DM and need a way to get players to try new games, try this set up: whenever a player misses a session, instead of continuing the campaign, you run a one shot using a brand new system. It'll get your group to try new games (more often than you'd think/like) and additionally half of the excuses won't be valid because you can't carry on the D&D campaign, you're missing a player after all~
One-shots as a way of trying new systems is my personal favorite way to do so. We tried Call of Cthulhu (me as DM) during our 2 year campaign (still going strong) and after that one of my players cam forth and because they wanted to try to DM a Shadowrun one-shot, so I got to play to. Next was a Deadlands one-shot I made (only recently) and the Pathfinder 2e one-shot (one of my players as the DM) is alreay in the planning while I got Cyberpunk:Red ready and loaded for the one after Pathfinder. Having one-shots of different systems inbetween is a super relaxing alteration from your normal game that hugely helps clearing the mind, trying different characters, classes, etc. and overall also makes people appreciate the D&D campaing more. I can only wholeheartedly recommend trying different systems with your players and as already mentioned in the video, you definetly don't have to know all the rules by heart. Many of the on the spot interpetrations of the very "niche" rules often lead to funny and memorable moments, at least in my experience.
Listen to Bob! That is good advice. I have been playing some many RPG in the 90's at cons because there was not many that would play D&D (or AD&D). Why? It was old stuff. So I got to play a lot of other systems and sometimes RPG's without a system. You young guys deserve to get to know to have fun with other systems as us old guys did.
Kudos Bob! Carry on. ^^
My first game ever was with the red Mentzer box a neighbor kid had in the 80's he didn't have the blue box yet so we basically just made it up after lvl 3. Then a few years later we met another kid whos older brother ran Ad&d. Our rules worked just as good. The little secret that wizards does not want you to know, is you dont need the books, just some friends and dice , paper, pencil, and imagination. Im currently running a 5e game online as well as a hybrid of DCC/OSE IRL.
Cool video as always ) Yet it was a bit sad to see as it was implied that TTRG basically equals dnd-style-play, whereas there are things like FATE, PbtA, VtM, 2D20 and other great and popular games, that are... a bit more difficult to switch to, then from 5e to PF )))
Though I 100% agree with the main idea )
What is the poster on the wall behind you? It looks very familiar but I can't remember where I've seen it before. Thanks.
I love TTRPGs and for the longest time I only played 5e and Pathfinder, but I really don't like the way magic works in those systems. I'm so glad that my players were willing to try out DCC, Dungeon World, and Troika. I'm actually looking to run Cairn because I love the idea of the fatigue mechanic.
Me and my friends just started actually consistently playing D&D barely for a year now, and just got over 3 consistent players in the last 4 months (were finally 5 people). So we don't really see the point in trying to learn a new similar system right now.
That being said, we are looking into trying the avatar RPG for our next campaign since it seems different and fun enough
This kind of answer baffles me. How long does it take for adult human beings to "learn a new system". It should take all of maybe one session?
@@oskar6661 Lots of systems take multiple sessions to understand the rhythm of the game, especially when there is qualitative vertical progression. And any session spent learning something new is a session not spent on a system already known to be adequate, risking time spent on an unpalatable system or experience or disappointment. Some tables play infrequently enough that such is a significant investment, and people get different amounts of value out of novelty.
I love it when a game has a simple solo adventure someone can play to learn the rules and then explain them to someone else. It really helps you grok them.