After A Link Between Worlds but before the original Legend of Zelda. There's tons of ALttP/ALBW references such as various ruins based on the Hyrule dungeons from these games, and the entire game is just the ALttP overworld but expanded on all sides.
There are basically 2 spots for it in my mind. Either after ALBW or after FSA. I currently lean towards the latter, and here’s why. To start with simple details- the races & tribes in EoW align with the ones in FSA and the child timeline. Ganon is unknown in this game, which fits more with the child branch (his blue pig form mainly hides in the shadows during FSA), whereas in the downfall, Ganon is known all over Hyrule both in name and appearance throughout its history. Same with the Triforce, which is known and named throughout the downfall line, but in the child line, it’s regarded as an obscure power, which fits more with EoW. People mainly want to point to the map as evidence, which… tends to not be good timeline evidence in my opinion, however, if we go that route- there are inconsistencies. For example, in ALBW, the Desert Palace only has 2 entrances present, whereas it had 3 in Alttp. It seems one of them has completely rotted away or been destroyed. In EoW, it has 3 entrances again (all rotting). So how did it go from 3… to 2… back to 3? This is not the only inconsistency with the map of ALBW compared to EoW either. But if you try place the game inbetween AlttP & ALBW, not only do you run into lore issues, but there are map inconsistencies there too. One example is… it would mean Kakariko moved its location after Alttp for EoW, but then moved back to its spot for ALBW and everything- all houses, paths, structures, were built identical to Alttp again. Basically, if you place EoW after Alttp, there are inconsistent flip-flops on the map. If you place it after ALBW, there are inconsistent flip-flops on the map. However, FSA on the other hand, has all the same landmarks as Alttp… Eastern Palace, Desert Palace, it even has that rocky field to the east of the castle. Only part missing is the sanctuary to the north, but we don’t explore that area in FSA anyways. If you place it centuries after FSA, there are virtually no inconsistencies. Nothing you need to work around regarding Ganon & the Triforce. It’s all set and ready to go. As stated earlier, I don’t put much weight on maps for the timeline, hence, I still think it being placed after ALBW isn’t an unreasonable option, nor would it shock me if Nintendo went with that, BUT… that still requires a few work around explanations whereas, after FSA doesn’t.
@@WindMageMaster There's a woman in the graveyard north of Hyrule Castle who mentions her grandfather telling her once about the hidden staircase in both A Link to the Past and A Link between Worlds. This points at Echoes of Wisdom been a sequel to A Link between Worlds as per there been no such hidden staircase in Four Swords Adventures (that i'm aware of), plus all the ruined dungeons from both ALttP and ALBW spread across EoW's gameworld. Sorry for not replying yet to your comment on Silver Rooster's video, i've been busy as of late and haven't had enough time to write long comments.
@@javiervasquez625 Except the hidden staircase the woman is talking about is under the grave she’s standing by which leads to a small quest. At least, as far as I’m aware. I remember reading that dialogue and then moving the grave and she reacts to it when you talk to her again. And yeah, as I said about the dungeons and the map…. The Desert Palace specifically is inconsistent going from Alttp to ALBW to EoW. It would go from 3 entrances, to 2 entrances, back to 3 entrances. It seems like EoW completely disregards ALBW’s map changes. Except, if you place it before ALBW, there’s even more inconsistencies. FSA has all these same dungeons/locations… so, for me, it’s less of a mess placing it there… plus with the other reasons I provided. But it happening after ALBW would be my 2nd pick and I wouldn’t be baffled if they placed it there. Map inconsistencies don’t really bother me. They *could* hypothetically also say the Triforce was moved and forgotten about after ALBW and that Ganon was forgotten too, and that they were eventually remembered again by LoZ. That’s possible. It’s just that, both Ganon and the Triforce are already relatively obscure elements after FSA as is, so if they placed it centuries after that, they wouldn’t need to explain that. No worries on the other comment.
@@WindMageMaster Well i don't know, she seemed to be referencing the same hidden staircase given that she is, after all, hanging out in a similar graveyard to the ones from ALttP and ALBW regardless if it's not the exact same one. Pretty sure Ganon is far from forgotten following Four Swords Adventures, if the Gerudo and Zelda knowing about his existence is anything to go by. Thanks for the patience.
@@javiervasquez625 And just for reference, we’re talking about the staircase under the grave at the top right of the graveyard? Because yeah, there’s a staircase there just like Alttp & ALBW, but I wouldn’t see that as heavier evidence than the other points on the map that also reflect Alttp. The sanctuary and graveyard are not seen in FSA, however, we can’t explore that area to see if they are there or not. I also don’t think it would matter much because if FSA… which has Alttp map locations and elements from TWW… can be placed on the child timeline of all places, I don’t think Nintendo really looks at those details to determine a placement. Yeah, but look at Ganondorf in FSA. It happens only some centuries after the other Ganondorf’s attack in TP. Hyrule and Zelda don’t know him in FSA (until he makes himself known). And while the Gerudo do not allow him to be king, they also don’t seem bothered by him until he actually breaks their laws. If Ganondorf from TP isn’t really remembered centuries later in FSA… why would FSA Ganon be remembered centuries later? He works in the shadows both in TP & FSA and his blue pig form specifically is only seen by few at the time. Doesn’t really leave the impression that he’d be remembered and recognized centuries after FSA. At least in my opinion.
@@WindMageMaster Well, regardless of wether "it's the same staircase or not", i wouldn't see past Nintendo's willingness to reference it considering their willingness to also references the dungeons from ALttP. Also, there is the fact that FSA's Hyrule is a literal _island_ in the middle of the ocean, meanwhile EoW's Hyrule looks to be part of an extended mainland very much like Zelda 2's Hyrule (which i already know you don't give a crap about so i'm just saying (no offense)). I mean, Zelda does know who he is beforehand as per her description of him when he shows up. His identity is very much well known both within the Royal Family of Hyrule and the Gerudo tribe itself which i assure is gonna become even more well known after getting sealed away in the Four Sword, in order to prevent him from wreaking havoc ever again. From where did you get that "it only happens only some centuries after Twilight Princess" though? Nintendo has always been extremely ambiguous when it comes to the time gaps within games as per the whole The _Legend_ of Zelda theme which permeates the franchise, so i don't see why you should infer there's only a couple of centuries since TP Ganon got whacked and Hyrule became an island in the middle of the ocean. For all we know there could be *tens* of thousands of years seperating each major game in the timeline (eg: Breath of the Wild) in order to ensure history is lost long enough for it to become _legend,_ thus kickstarting the new The Legend of Zelda adventure.
Probably sometime after but relatively close to ALTTP and ALBW. Maybe like a few hundred or so years after. Because the world is pretty much the same as in those games, but most of the dungeon entrances from those games are in ruins. Also, the River Zora are friendly now whereas in ALTTP and ALBW they were enemies.
Aight, there's a lot I have wrong with this, but I'll touch on just a couple things. Link's Awakening (LA) Link is heavily implied to be the same Link from A Link to the Past, even Hyrule Historia says that. Echoes of Wisdom Link (EoW) is implied to a be a new hero disconnected from previous games, though *theoretically*, let's say EoW Link did go on an adventure at sea and went through LA. LA Link *does* know Zelda, as implied by the first few lines from Marin, "Zelda? No, I'm Marin." (Paraphrasing). What's really confusing is that Oracles Zelda doesn't know Link, and Oracles Link is implied to be the same as ALttP Link, even HH admits that too. But that's a separate subject. The state of Ganondorf between games is interesting. He becomes Ganon in the Dark World before ALttP, is killed in ALttP, resurrected (in a botched way) and killed in Oracles, and is fully revived and killed in ALBW. Where does EoW take place in all this? Well, Ganon in EoW is merely an echo, and I speculate Null created Ganon's Echo from the Trident of Power. Yes this connects to Four Swords Adventures, which I have a differing placement of from most (and from HH), though that is a different discussion. Let's at least look at the Trident in EoW (which, Ganon uses a Trident in ALttP and ALBW). I speculate that Null created Ganon's Echo from his Trident much in the same way Null created Link's Echo from Link's weapons, being his Sword, Bow, and Bombs. Where's Ganon? I would say he's still dead. How Null got ahold of the Trident is a mystery, but it's possible. A great theory I heard is that Lorule's deterioration was caused by Null, and Null was able to capture many Tris due to there being no Golden Power in Lorule. After Lorule's Triforce was brought back, Null was pushed back, but he got a power boost and now had many Tris that he could use to make Echoes. This, of course, would place EoW after ALBW. I think a lot in EoW points to this placement, like how a lot is taken from ALttP and ALBW's overworlds, the Zora species seem to have settled their disputes (compared to the Oracles, at least), and the River Zora have become much more civilized since ALBW, with Queen Oren having an influence on that. Even some Zelda II enemies have sprung up, like Moas and Aruroda, potentially linking them to Zelda II (though there are some other enemies that were exclusive to other games, like Needleflies from Majoras Mask and Yetis as a species, though not an enemy, from Twilight Princess). As for the Triforce, the location of the Triforce hasn't every made too much sense between games. In ALttP, it was in the sacred realm, then Ganondorf took it. After Ganon was defeated, the Triforce was probably just put back in the sacred realm, however in Oracles, it is in Hyrule Castle? It's possible the Hylians moved it into Hyrule Castle after ALttP, as without a Temple of Time, it's easy for someone like Ganondorf to waltz in, like he did in ALttP. Though, after the Oracles, it really doesn't make much sense. He idea that the Triforce became birds and flew out is kinda ridiculous, and it's looking into a clever transition a little too much. Even if it did, why would the Triforce decide to go to Ganon, Zelda, and the Triforce of Courage just chill in the Sacred Realm? Even if it stayed in Hyrule Castle after Oracles, going from it to ALBW doesn't make sense, so something else must be going on here, but there's no clue as to what exactly. Going from ALBW to EoW does, however, as the Triforce is whole at the end of ALBW and in the Sacred Realm and it can be deduced that the Triforce was brought out of the Sacred Realm in EoW, still whole
I got a different theory that might be a big stretch. In my opinion EOW is located after the theorized convergence of the three timelines but before the third foundation of Hyrule ( second if you don't count new Hyrule of Spirit Tracks), here is why i think this is the case: - First of all if we look at the map of EOW we recognize many of the landmarks we have in the downfall timeline but in ruins or slightly changed, which clearly indicates that these events take place much after ALTTP and ALBW, but at the same time we find others we saw in BOTW and TOTK. There is Hebra Mountain and Mount Lanayru, then we have the Faron wetlands, who really look like an early version of the jungle we see in the Faron region in BOTW and TOTK, the geographical location also matches. The volcano who was known as Death Mountain is called Eldin volcano, just like in the aforementioned Zelda games. If the convergence of the timelines is true, then it would stand to reason that this Hyrule would have places from Hyrules of different timelines and resemble thus an early version of the massive continent we see later; - The second point is not as strong as the first one but looking at the dialogues, we can notice that after rescuing the King from the rift, he mentions that the legend tells that in times of trouble a hero and a priestess always appear to save the kingdom, a legend told in a similar fashion to the one Impa from BOTW tells Link, possibly implying the close relation of the events of this game with those of the open world Zeldas.
It seems Hyrule is very prosperous.and mysteriously there are a lot of OoT elements. But it is sure after ALBW, since in that game Zelda and "shashshahla" are aware of the triforce, the master Sword and GANON. This game seems in an age only very old archives tell these games as legends. And the Great Deku Tree, instead of guarding the Master Sword, is Guarding the Triforce. I would say this EOW marks the beginning of the period of the Golden Age in which the royal family controls the whole Triforce, until the tragedy of Zelda "the first".
In my mind, it is either after ALttP and ALBW but before TLoZ and AoL. Null is seemingly the source of all evil in the Zelda Universe, and is killed in EoW. Leaving only Zelda One and Two where Ganon is revived, being the last evil thing in Zelda (in that timeline) and killed letting Hyrule be free from evil and in peace for good. Or it is the very last game in the downfall timeline, dramatically ending with the root of EVERYTHING being slain and peace returning to Hyrule. After all, they call the Triforce, The Prime Energy, meaning it has been so long they forgot what it is called. Also in this game, Ganon isn’t real because he's been killed in AoL (if it’s last in the timeline). The reveal of Null changes what Zelda has been, and it doesn’t make sense to me that there could be more Ganon after him.
Every Zelda game moving forward will take place “after” TOTK. They will take “lore” from past games and re-invent new stories out of them that we know or don’t know that will still make sense to the series, like this new recently released game with a new big baddie. Im guessing that this takes place, thousands of years later (from totk) and that there will be other games In between the two 🤷♂️
@ I’m willing to bet on that, since the original director wants to (or already has) step down from his legacy and let the new generation of developers “continue” the series (which is why he is now a “overseer” to the franchise). Adding in between timelines from past stories, will just cause confusion to BOTW & TOTK and a divide from fans (which I’m sure Nintendo doesn’t want again)… The old timeline is complete! And they are moving forward with a new one that takes place after TOTK.
@ it’s based off of old interviews from post BOTW and a recent one about the timeline placement of this new release game, which is said to take place “way beyond” TOTK.
Definitely after A Link Between Worlds, and IMHO, after Zelda 2 and even Tears of the Kingdom. (INCOMING WALL OF TEXT) The biggest support for this game being beyond every other Zelda game, IMO, is that Ganon is gone, and has been gone from living memory for centuries...and even from the legends. Neither the Gerudo (who spawned him) nor the Hyrulian Royal Family (the Zelda franchise's in-universe keepers of the deep lore) remember him. In the game, Ganon is only referred to as a "blue monster" and maybe "the most powerful rift monster". In fact, considering everything else in this game, I think that the events of Echoes of Wisdom were the endgame of a millennia-long plan by the Golden Goddesses (Din, Nayru and Farore) to deal with Null once and for all...one that might have been enacted sooner if not for the constant presence of Ganon via the curse of Demise. It was only just prior to the events of Echoes, after so many years of Ganon not being around, that the conditions for Null's true defeat could arise - the creation of the Weapons of Might, and the magical potential to use echo powers as well as a Tri. The Master Sword is a weapon to use against the monsters of the Demon Tribe, but the Weapons of Might and the power of Echoes were the keys to defeating Null. Why did the Goddesses not just destroy Null themselves instead of leaving that job to mortals? IMO, it's because they can't destroy _anything_ themselves...they can only create. So, here is what I think was the Goddesses' plan: 1. Create Hyrule to seal Null away. 2. Create the Tris to maintain Hyrule's integrity. 3. Create mortals with the potential to one day oppose Null. 4. Leave behind their energy as the Prime Energy/Triforce. 5. Wait until mortals figure out how to harness the power of the rifts and use it as a weapon against Null. 5a. Ensure that a chosen hero and chosen priestess exist at any point when Hyrule is threatened. 5b. Give the priestess the potential to learn echo magic. 6. Somehow let Null discover the existence of the Triforce, knowing full well he'd pursue it. 7. They give Zelda their sanctions, knowing that Null would make an echo of her to seize the Triforce. 8. Null gets the Triforce, and the failsafe kicks in, giving the chosen priestess Zelda the Wisdom piece, the chosen hero Link the Courage piece and leaving Null with Power. 9. Link and Zelda, armed with the Weapons of Might and Echo Magic, confront Null, take the Triforce of Power from him, and make their wish to destroy him. The reason is that while Null is cunning, he is simplistic in his goals and single-minded in his pursuit of goals. tl;dr, Null thought he was playing checkers with the Goddesses when they were really playing 5D chess.
If we should put this game in the timeline we most first look at the two games with the same map. A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds. We can then see that Echoes of Wisdom is sometime after those games, probably a very long time after because the most of places is in ruins. So I could think this game could be the last game in this timeline. Then if we think like this. Pretending Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom is after all of those games (I don’t like that theory but I should use it) and if Null has opened up all those rift in every timeline like in the child timeline, adult timeline and the fallen hero timeline at the same time. So this is the reason everything will be connected with each other. No one will remember anything from before and everything will start from the “beginning” again. But Zelda is stopping this in this game so when she do that we have made another new timeline. If Zelda fails we have a timeline that starts with the games Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom but if she defeat Null we have made a new timeline again. A new continue on the fallen hero timeline. Maybe, maybe not.
I feel like after Links Awakening feels perfect for this game. The map is just a bigger ALTTP map with an ocean so maybe that’s where Link came from after that game.
I like to think that EOW is close to Four Swords Adventures. My reasoning is that both of them are (as far as I know) the only two games in the franchise that, simultaneously, have: -2D gameplay -Both River Zoras and Gerudos. The Gerudos being my strongest point since they simply DO NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE ELSE on the timelines, besides on the child timeline. BUT, I think my theory would be even better if Four Swords Adventures was actually in the Fallen Hero timeline. If so, I believe both of them would be after A Link Between Worlds and before Zelda 1. That would explain the map looking like ALTTP, while Hyrule is not destroyed like in Zelda 1 and 2.
I mean sure but OoT happened in all timelines so realistically all the races most likely around as Nintendo has never once confirmed they went extinct in any of the timelines.
@@firionkaiser8291 I don't remember where I saw It, but the main theory as to why the gerudo never appear in the fallen timeline is that, after siding with ganondorf, they were either killed of or exiled of hyrule.
@@joaolucasoliveirareis1822 Its a possibility but never confirmed. To me the latter makes more sense as that seems to be what happened in the child timeline too if TP is anything to go by. After thousands of years they finally return.
they never prioritize how the games link to each other in the timeline, so, as in botw and totk, what seems more likely is that most of the games happen in alternative universes, with some similar events, some missing events, that way every reference makes sense and every contradition/plot hole can be ignored easily, at least until developers and creators start to explain every detail and how the games stories actually connect to each other. On that logic, Echoes of Wisdom takes place after the events of Albw and Triforce Heroes (or the equivalent in their unique universe), thats why the map has a lot of similarities but at the same time there are lots of things that differ in shape/position or have different names
Definitely after a link to the past but the exact placement is still up for debate. I am more inclined to believe it takes place after albw at the very least because the locations from alttp are not in ruins in albw, but are in ruins in EoW.
@@andresbarquin There's a woman in the graveyard north of Hyrule Castle who mentions her grandfather once telling her about the hidden staircase in both A Link to the Past and A Link between Worlds. This points at Echoes of Wisdom been a sequel to A Link between Worlds as per the hidden staircase, plus all the ruined dungeons from both ALttP and ALBW.
Correction: The Triforce is not split in A Link between Worlds, it's put back together again after Yu-Ganon, who took both Triforce of Wisdom and Power, has been sent to Hell. Link and Zelda used their Triforce to recreate Lorule's Triforce that they foolishly destroyed. Though there are possibly more Theories for that Ending: It is possible that since Ganon basically died in another Universe *seperate* from Hyrule that his Souk was dragged to the respective Afterlife, but by going through the space between Dimensions, he Eventually Encountered Null who empowered him and mind Controlled him as his Avatar, and after Ganon died in the Prologue, Null used that Power Boost that he had and created more massive rifts than ever before.
First, I would like to point out that the final battle with Demise took place in the ancient past of Skyward Sword, meaning that the curse was in place before the game started. With how Hyrule, and Zelda's name are not very well known out side of Hyrulians, how small the Hyrule population seems, how close the Hyrule royalty is to the people, the fact that the three goddesses have not yet departed from the land, and there are no indications of a previous Link; I place the game very early in the timeline. Between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, to be precise. Nobody refers to Ganon as Ganon, but as a Blue Demon; this could indicate that Ganon is something more primal, like the embodiment of the curse. I think this link may even go on to become the Hero of Men.
They do refer to the blue monster as Ganon, only later in the game. The boss battle also clearly indicates that it is indeed “Ganon”, so it has to take place after OoT since it’s Ganon’e first chronological appearance. The rest is up to theorists 😆
@@enzokrikorian5580 The boss is indeed named "Ganon," in combat, but the name is never referenced in conversation. There is also nothing saying that the OoT Ganon is the first.
@@RyuuKageDesuIt is referenced in conversation. Both Tri and Minister Lefte call him Ganon, in conversation, after the battle with him at Hyrule Castle.
In my own experience in the game, I saw the Triforce and went "WAIT, the Prime Energy is the TRIFORCE!?" and I kinda projected that onto Zelda. I headcanon that the Triforce is still known in Echoes of Wisdom's Hyrule, and the "Prime Energy" is a misnomer for strategic reasons Edit: As for my own timeline, I'm personally placing it at the end of the Skyfall Eon. Whilst the Gerudo were friendly in FSA, here we see them starting to become more isolationist, leading to the conditions seen in Ocarina of Time.
I don't see Echoes of Wisdom taking place between A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds, given that Zelda nor anyone else in the royal family know of Link, which would be impossible given that the Links in ALTTP, Link's Awakening and the Oracle games are the same person, the Hero of Legend, so Zelda would have recognized him (but then again I'm not sure if they recognize each other in the Oracle games). I think it takes place between A Link Between Worlds and the first Legend of Zelda, where it has the space to have a different Link and Zelda and the Triforce is complete following ALBW. The biggest issue I see with this is the fact that the Triforce is called the Prime Energy in Echoes of Wisdom, which is probably going to cause problems with timeline placement no matter where you put it, but it could be that the royal family tried to get the kingdom to forget the Triforce after seeing what happened in both Hyrule and Lorule in ALBW, which could explain why nobody (even Tri) knows of the Triforce or "Prime Energy" except the King, Great Deku Tree, and three Goddesses.
@@MartKart8 Not really as he's three times the size of the original Ganon from A Link to the Past, has a long purplish cape in contrast to the red cape-wearing Ganon from ALttP, the breastplate he wears looks absolutely nothing like the one worn by ALttP Ganon and his trident has a completely different origin and design to the one wielded by the Ganon from the Downfall Timeline. They're nothing alike.
@@javiervasquez625 Ganon's appearance is never consistent. he has feet in ALttP but hooves in all other appearances. Large horns in OoT but nowhere else, He uses a 2 ended trident in EoW but only 1 end in all other games. The Ganon from Four Swords Adventures is close enough, it doesn't need to be 1:1 to be the same. OoT Ganon, ALttP Ganon, and TP Dark Beast Ganon are all the same guy yet look nothing alike.
@@Olimario34_ The Downfall Timeline Ganon is still consistent _enough_ across his many reincarnations in this timeline compared to the 10 foot giant with purple cape and light brownish breastplate which neither of the Downfall Timeline Ganons ever wore. OoT Ganon has horns because he was only using the Triforce of Power to transform into a pig instead of the *complete* Triforce like his Downfall Timeline self and the reason why EoW Ganon uses the double bladed trident is because it's a _reused asset_ from Link's Awakening Remake which Nintendo was too cheap not to reuse for money and time's sake. As stated above, FSA Ganon looks nothing like Downfall Timeline Ganon who's appearance has remained consistent throughout most of his resurrections. OoT Ganon only had the Triforce of Power, ALttP Ganon had the complete Triforce and TP Ganon was corrupted by the Twilight (hence why his silhouette at the start of the fight ressembles a Shadow Beast).
@@MartKart8 I'm not "stalking" for merely commenting on what the community has to say (regardless of who it is). I'm sorry if i ever gave you such an impression.
I believe that the timeline is something they are working on piecing together so that it’s no longer a constant question void. Totk solidified the “end” of the timeline which is never truly the end but this game pieces it a bit more together like there will be a timeline conversion in a game farther down the line. I do believe a Zelda game with all three timelines colliding will happen in my lifetime
Except no it didn't. It was recently confirmed by Nintendo that BotW and TotK take place in their own continuity separate from the main timeline, so they aren't a part of it.
I wonder if Anyone has Connected the Dots as to Why Null is Called Null. It's Based on the Phrase Null and Void! Null Exists in a Void! Get it? Null and Void? And He's the Master of the Void! Ya! So There We Are.
Null is absence of value, not even zero. Imagine a FULL roll of toilet paper on the toilet paper holder, call that 100. Imagine an EMPTY roll of toilet paper on the toilet paper holder, call that 0. Imagine a MISSING roll of toilet paper on the toilet paper holder, that's null.
Null is just the German word for nothing. It’s also a term used by computer programmers to represent an object having the value of nothing (null being a different value from zero and one that is handled differently than a number). It’s just the absence of being.
Link's Awakening is a direct sequel to A Link to the Past. Same Link, same Zelda which is who Link mistakes Marin for (even if she doesn't show up). In Echoes of Wisdom Link and Zelda don't know each other which means they are not the same people as in a Link to the Past/Link's Awakening/Oracle games. Unless Nintendo retcons it
The thing that bothers me the most is that nobody knows about Ganon... Luberry just calls him "that giant blue pig" ; surely if EoW took place in the downfall timeline (or even after OOT or close to FSA), they would know about it - and about the Triforce as well : nobody seems to know what it is, except the royal family. They alsod call it the "prime energy", and they all seem surprised when it shatters after Null touched it... I know there are plenty of evidences going against a placement before Skyward Sword, but there also still is, and I personally really like this theory... 🥲
I would place this game even later in the timeline namely hundreds of years after Adventure of Link. The central hyrule map could still be similar to Alttp since Zelda 1+2 takes place in northeastern hyrule. The fact that both ganon(just an echo in this game) and the triforce seem to be forgotten by most is a strong argument. Also enemies like Aruroda and Moas only ever appeared in Adventure of Link prior to this. This would also explain some of the throwbacks to botw/totk placing this a few thousand years before said games
Great game, thoroughly enjoyed playing. Thanks for the video, love these theories and figuring out where in the timeline each game fits. PS - your end screens don't show up. 😉
Like your theory for the most part, but I think this is the first game after Zelda II The Adventure of Link. My reason is simple. Every game in the timeline has a version of Spectacle Rock in the north near the center of the map. This game does not have a Spectacle Rock. It seems to have been destroyed. So this would logically put EoW after Zelda II.
Yeah, the fact that the Triforce has seemingly been forgotten about and is referred to as a mythical Prime Energy does indicate that it's been a very long time since it was last used. It would also make sense that no one knows anything about Ganon because his resurrection cycle was permanently stopped in Adventure of Link. This could also fit in before Zelda 1, assuming that enough time has passed between the games, but your point about Spectacle Rock does make me lean more towards EoW currently being the final game in that timeline.
@@JediMB Plus, lore wise Ganon was not resurrected at the end of AoL and the triforce was made whole again. If peace was in the land, more races would then move into the kingdom. Zelda and AoL where in the era of decline, this could be a time where Hyrule began to have a renaissance.
@@danixove2358 I see the spot you are talking about. I would have to disagree. I have a video going over the various maps that are similar to EoW. If you take a look at the video you will see where spectacle rock should be.
I wanted a new downfall timeline game. Not what I was expecting (yet to pick it up. My backlog is getting way to big) but what you're peiceing together sounds right without me seeing the location and such that it's got to be after alttp. I really want a ga.e after zelda 2. But that will never happen
@@triforcetimes I'd actually be curious to see them give another attempt at the "Triforce Trilogy" project. There had been a proposal to remake the NES games and release a brand new third adventure for the Link from those games as well, and they would've been called the Triforce Trilogy. New ideas were added to the point where it didn't resemble the originals so much anymore and the project got renamed as the Mystic Seeds Trilogy, and then they struggled to make a password system that could be used to pass data between the three games so they reshuffled assets from the three games into two games and the result that came out of that was Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons. But I think EoW could give them some foundation to start with for a new attempt at the Triforce Trilogy. Make a copy of the original LoZ that's as faithful as possible to its overworld and dungeon layouts while being built in EoW's engine. Create an overworld map that follows the basic outline of AoL's overworld map layout but fleshes it out better, with all the towns built into the new landscape instead of going to separate screens for them. And this new AoL map should reuse the updated LoZ map (with LoZ's dungeons sealed off, but maybe some bonuses could be added to this region) for that one region in the southwest corner of the AoL map. Also, retcon the Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Deku Scrubs, and whatever else into this new AoL instead of making all of the towns Hylian. Where LoZ and EoW's dungeons each used side view rooms as transitional tunnels to break up the overhead sections, perhaps this new AoL could sparingly add some overhead sections to its palaces that act as transitional areas to break up all the side view stuff into sections. And follow these revamped games up with whatever the third adventure was going to be. And perhaps the locations we visit in that one go for more of a 50/50 split between overhead and side view styled room design. Neither style would be used as transitions between sections, it's just that these sections are built this way and those sections are built that way.
I find it odd how many people try and place this game in the timeline while ignore specific details and highlighting others. No one has talked about how the prophesy thing the King mentions doesn't talk about a 'Princess of Wisdom' but calls her a 'Priestess of Wisdom'. To me this implies this is early in the timeline, pre Ocarina of Time even. Looking at that group of games I see other similarities as well, such as Link not using the Master Sword, ie the Four Sword and Picori Blade. The other tell tale clue, for me at least, the the fact it is not called the Triforce, but the Prime Energy, Only in the Minish cap is the Triforce not called by that name, its the Light Force. And while Light Force and Prime Energy are also different it shows that the commonly known name of this relic is not what comes to be known later. As for everyone pointing to the map and the art style and using that as evidence of the timeline placement in the Downfall timeline, this video points out the answer to that in that the developers don't consider timeline placement when making the game. Reusing the same engine as Link's Awaking Remake does not mean it has to be a sequel or even related story wise to that game. Likewise looking across all the games, there are not many similarities between maps and related timeline games. Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess are only set a few generations apart, 200-400 years, there is no way the landscape would change that drastically in so short a time, but the map would disagree. Same with games in the downfall timeline. Link to the Past and Link between worlds use different maps, but if you believe its the same Link in those games why isn't the map identical(alternatively they have a similar time gap to the previous example of being only generations apart). If this was intended to be in the downfall timeline they easily could have kept the Triforce as the Triforce, why rename it unless it was deliberately named as a clue to its placement. As for Ganon's appearance and presence, what if Ganon is just a monster that is just a more advance evolution of blin. If this is the case, then of course Null would be able to make an echo of him. It could also be that Ganon is a unique monster, which we have seen as dungeon bosses throughout the games. If either of these is the case then the explanation of Ganondorf taking on this form in Ocarina of Time after using the Triforce of Power on himself is that he turned himself into an existing monstrous form(or that curse from Demise did at least). We do see Ganon in the Four Swords games and at least one of them is on the timeline before Ocarina and proves that Ganon is not locked to the existence of Ganondorf.
@@ravenebony2267 I do think that, but mostly because its implied in Linked Universe and I like the story being told there, I know the official timeline they are not the same Link.
I'll give you the priestess thing, but other points you gave don't exactly line up. 1) Link doesn't use the Master Sword, so the game likely takes place pre-OoT > I hate to sound rude, but we're already off on the wrong foot with that one. Out of the 20 or so games in the series, the Master Sword has only appeared in about half of them, and it's doubtful that the ones in the Oracle games and Four Swords Anniversary Edition are even the real one. And the only games that didn't have the Master Sword and take place after OoT are the Minish Cap and Four Swords, both of which use a purely sacred weapon as opposed to the manmade Sword of Might, which seems to be closer to the Magical Sword or Noble Sword. 2) The Triforce isn't always referred to by name; in The Minish Cap, it's called the Light Force > This is completely incorrect. The Triforce is a relic left behind by the Golden Goddesses that was locked in the Sacred Realm some time after SS, resembles three golden triangles forming a larger triangle, and can be used separately as the Triforces of Power, Wisdom and Courage. The Light Force on the other hand is an energy brought by the Picori/Minish used to aid the Hero of Men that was then placed into the bloodline of the royal family, and is represented as a single golden triangle. You may be able to say this is the Triforce of Wisdom, but no, not really. Whenever a piece of the Triforce is taken from its bearer, it comes out all at once as that triangle. The Light Force, when being extracted by Vaati, didn't do that, coming out gradually, which was what gave Link the chance to defeat the sorcerer. I also don't recall removing the Triforce from someone to be lethal, which Vaati's ritual to take the Light Force from Zelda would have been. 3) Having the same engine and artstyle doesn't mean the games are sequels > This is correct, but I have some gripes with your arguments. The maps being different across games is most likely a gameplay choice to keep things interesting for the players, and there is something to be said about gameplay versus story. Just take a look at the FSA map. And the example you gave for the same Link needing to explore the same Hyrule is completely backwards due to these being *different* Links exploring the *same* map, or something incredibly close, not as close as "I was originally going to be BotW DLC pack 3", but close nonetheless. And these aren't even the same map as EoW! Not to mention most of the 3D games' areas are separated by loading screens, and who knows the distance those cover. Final) General points for why EoW can't take place on the Downfall Timeline > I agree that that isn't where the game takes place, but I find your points here lacking as well: >> *Point:* The Triforce is called the Prime Energy, so it should take place pre-OoT >> *Response:* We go from "Triforce" before and during SS, then randomly call it "the Prime Energy" afterwards, then go back to "Triforce" during OoT and onwards? That sounds ridiculous, even for this clusterf*ck of a timeline. >> *Point:* Ganon is may be the echo of an original monster (like the dungeon bosses) or new type of Blin >> *Responce:* He can't be a new Blin. All of Null's Echoes we've seen with a resemblance of agency are aware of who they are, or who they're copying. As for him being original... No. There's a reason these are called *Echoes*. They're *copies*, Tri says so themself. As for the bosses, they either have appeared before (Volvagia, Manhandalla, Ghoma), haven't been seen yet (since Null can ignore time and space, being the embodiment of the void) or are the Seismic Talus who looks an awful lot like Ramrock from OoA. >> *Point:* Because a Four Swords game takes place before OoT, and since Ganon appears in one and is sealed in the Four Sword, we know he isn't linked to Ganondorf. >> *Responce:* Yes, he can't possibly be linked be linked to Ganondorf because of his one appearance in a FS game where he was subsequently sealed, that game being the only one to take place *after* OoT, and that also states this Ganon is a result of another Ganondorf (because the last one died) taking the Dark Trident. The math ain't mathing here.
I think BOTW ans TOTK utterly destroyed the original lore and timeline to the point where they either need to be retconned from existence (the good option) or the timeline is just not a thing anymore.
The kinda are. I forgot what book it's in or where it is but BotW & TotK are kinda just off to the side in their own category, not connected to the timeline.. 🤦♀️ Nintendo themselves were just kinda like "meh, we're not even going to try with those games anymore." I'm pleasantly surprised that EoW is more of a return to form.
They didn't destroy anything. Just added new elements, like other entries. They are set very far in the future, within another Hyrule Kingdom founded by the Rauru and Sonia (Hyrule has been refounded as New Hyrule in Spirit Tracks before, so it isn't impossible another founding of the kingdom). But that doesn't negate everything from Skyward Sword until them.
@@gandalfdiggory No, BotW and TotK were confirmed by that book to be their own separate continuity independent of the main timeline. Nintendo is likely starting to move away from the timeline concept altogether, as it wasn't originally their intention for all the Zelda games to be interconnected from the beginning.
@@LordSiravant They are separated in the sense they are so further in the future that it doesn't matter which timeline they come from (there's even a sidequest in BotW to illustrate this, the one with the Leviathans). So yes, in a sense they are in their "own timeline", but they are still in the greater timeline (and at least for now is up to debate which branch or if the branches somehow merged, etc etc)
@@LordSiravant And in the timelines from Encyclopedia and Hystoria it is stated that in the end the timeline is not fixed, always open to change and to thr player's interpretation. So in MY interpretation (valid by Nintendo's own saying), all the events of the 3 branches happened at one point or another in all 3 of them (which explains the elements from all 3 found in BotW). So BotW/TotK can be in any of the 3. And at one point Hyrule got destroyed and was refounded by Rauru and Sonia.
Despite the map being more akin to Downfall Timeline I'd say Child's. The only instance we see a huge geographic change is TWW flooding. Other than that there's no reason for Downfall and Child to be that different except for artstyle and game direction choices. I'd put it after Twilight Princess but before Four Swords. We know Zoras lifespan is huge, which makes me believe it extends to Lord Jabu Jabu as well. Maybe the giant fish we see in EoW is still the same from OoT. That's why I wouldn't go after FS because it'd be way too much time for the fish to be living. There's no reason to believe the yetis are exclusive to CT, they might exist in other timelines, but in my headcanon Yeto is Condé's deceased father. Bombfish debut is in TP. Not related but the Rifts are quite similar to the Twilight phenomena where only Link and Zelda (triforce chosen ones) mantain some sort of control inside the zones. Regular people are petrified or become lost souls. Deku Scrubs.
I agree with you this game is most likely placed in the Downfall Timeline. But I also think looks can be decieving. The prime example is ALBW Link being the same one that appears in TFH but for art direction they changed him to look like TWW/FS Link. Beast Ganon from OoT being The Ganon we see in 2D games despite size and colors.
There was no change though, it just expanded the borders further North, South and east so that Gorons, Sea Zora and Dekus would make sense being there. The devs had an 8-9 day bootcamp going over stuff like this so it would make sense. I hope they reveal everything they went over during said bootcamp.
The Master Sword would not work against a primordial being like Null. The mighty Sword is made of stones only found where rifts were repaired, being an Anti-Null weapon because it is born not to oppose evil, but opposing the nothingness
spoilers for Echoes of wisdom its revealed that we are fighting an echo of ganon in our first fight with him, this is my reason to believe EoW happens before FSA remember how ganon dies in TP, but is somehow back on his feet kickin in FSA, i beleive that the ganon in FSA is also an echo made by Vaati, being a dark mage and all im to believe he has some knowledge on echo creation, which he uses to create a fake ganon in FSA
I like this, especially because Null looks so much like Vaati's Final Form - big black cloud blob with two long arms (both have three gold claws on each hand and do the same arm-sticking-out-of-floor attack!) but the Gerudo in FSA discuss a new male born to their tribe who goes to the Pyramid and gets the Dark Trident which makes him the big bad beast.
Could be the descendant of the original deku tree. A lot of locations from lttp are these but it's not 100% identical and I suspect it's the same here. In downfall timeline link died after freeing the sages so the sprout was still born. That he doesn't look like his ww counterpart means very little
In Ocarina of Time, the Deku Tree is reborn as a sprouting immediately after the darkness is cleared from his home forest. You didn’t even have to defeat Ganon yet. Using that as precedent, it’s fair to think the tree would reincarnate into the Downfall timeline too. None of this explains why the Triforce is enshrined below inside underground ancient ruins, but it also doesn’t exclude the downfall timeline. If that’s the only question mark, I think putting EoW at in the latter stages of the downfall timeline would make the most sense. Putting it at the end probably works best. The seal on Null was due to creation itself, so his escaping it threatens to be a word ending event, not just a kingdom destroying event like Ganon. That seal should last a very long time indeed, but nothing lasts forever
Before Ocarina of time. Why? Young Lord Jabu Jabu and clearly the same Deku tree from OOT. Also the Triforce gets filled in after Link and Zelda make their wish and OOT has that 4th triangle on the Hylian shield. No clue how Ganon was captured/defeated maybe time doesn't apply to Null.
@@nworder4life Both the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu can have _offsprings_ as per the Deku Tree Sprout and both the Jabu-Jabu from Oracle of Ages and Jabun from The Wind Waker. It's not far-fetched to deduce the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu in Echoes of Wisdom are _descendants_ of the previous ones from Ocarina of Time.
@@javiervasquez625 So what are your thoughts on the 4th Triangle? Which we see clearly on the OOT shield. Lots of people have missed this but the Triforce empty middle piece gets filled in after Zelda and Link make the wish.
@@nworder4life As far as i'm concerned, the one on the N64 Hylian Shield was just an aesthetic choice by Nintendo which they then randomly removed in the 3DS remaster without any explanation worth theorizing about its removal. As for the Triforce seemingly becoming a "Tetraforce" at the end of the Echoes of Wisdom... does it? I've just seen the ending to verify and didn't spot any fourth triangle.
@@javiervasquez625 I’ve been seeing people say a 4th triangle was revealed in the missing space during the ending. I played the ending, rewatched it several times, and looked at every instance the Triforce is on screen. I actually think people are somehow trying to force themselves to see a 4th triangle. The one thing I saw recently is that someone said they believe the empty middle space represents Null. That could make sense, but it’s not implying a 4th piece… maybe some people ran with that and thought there’s a 4th? I really don’t know.
Apparently, he was also alive in A Link to the Past and A Link between Worlds albeit beyond the _boundaries_ where the Hyrules from these two aforementioned games ended. Basically speaking, we simply didn't see the Deku Tree in ALttP and ALBW as he wasn't part of those Hyrules.
@@javiervasquez625 but this Deku tree clearly looks like the exact same 1 from OOT. Not only that but the lego set that just came out clearly said it's the OOT Deku tree and again looks exactly the same as this 1. IMO this Deku tree is the same tree in OOT, and Jabu jabu is a younger version of himself. Aside from no Master Sword which could be chalked up to simply being lost...the only other big contradiction I see to that is the echo of ganon. Which I'll say is a result of null being outside of the rules of time? I dunno, other than that this seems like a perfect fit for a game taking place hundreds of years before Ocarina. The Hylia statue in the basement would suggest AFTER Skyward Sword.
timeline order according to my brain, (single player games only) (retconing loz 1 and 2 because waste of time) with botw and totk, Ss, Mc, Oot, Mm, Tp, Ww, Phg, St, Alttp, Oos, Ooa, La, Albw, Eow, Botw, Totk
Honestly, I don't think it's part of the timeline at all. I think it's its own separate continuity much like BotW and TotK were recently confirmed to be.
botw and totk were not recently confirmed to be part of their own continuity, i really don't get why everyone keeps saying that. that timeline that has been going around with botw and totk seeming "separate" has been the exact same way Nintendo and the zelda team have presented those games in the timeline since botw in 2017. why? cause as they've said several times, they like seeing the fans speculate and theorize. it isn't a confirmation of a separate placement, it's just being ambiguous
@@triforcetimes It’s just the way it doesn’t seem like these games are sequels to any particular game like they’ve merged all the games into one. I mean maybe there is an explanation that could work for that it just seems very likely Nintendo has like soft rebooted the series.
@@DaGhostToastRoast There's developer interviews specifically for this game where they discuss paying more attention to the lore this time following fan feedback to the recent games.
At the very least multiple timelines exist. For example, OoT > WW > PH > ST LttP > LA > LBW MC > FS > FSA …to name just three. It’s only a matter of how these various sequences fit together.
![Zelda Echoes of Wisdom Story and Ending EXPLAINED! [An Ancient Evil]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hhO7gRrHOxg/mqdefault.jpg)
After A Link Between Worlds but before the original Legend of Zelda. There's tons of ALttP/ALBW references such as various ruins based on the Hyrule dungeons from these games, and the entire game is just the ALttP overworld but expanded on all sides.
interesting
I second this!
This is my take too.
what ive been saying all along
Yup. Exactly.
There are basically 2 spots for it in my mind. Either after ALBW or after FSA. I currently lean towards the latter, and here’s why.
To start with simple details- the races & tribes in EoW align with the ones in FSA and the child timeline. Ganon is unknown in this game, which fits more with the child branch (his blue pig form mainly hides in the shadows during FSA), whereas in the downfall, Ganon is known all over Hyrule both in name and appearance throughout its history. Same with the Triforce, which is known and named throughout the downfall line, but in the child line, it’s regarded as an obscure power, which fits more with EoW.
People mainly want to point to the map as evidence, which… tends to not be good timeline evidence in my opinion, however, if we go that route- there are inconsistencies. For example, in ALBW, the Desert Palace only has 2 entrances present, whereas it had 3 in Alttp. It seems one of them has completely rotted away or been destroyed. In EoW, it has 3 entrances again (all rotting). So how did it go from 3… to 2… back to 3? This is not the only inconsistency with the map of ALBW compared to EoW either. But if you try place the game inbetween AlttP & ALBW, not only do you run into lore issues, but there are map inconsistencies there too. One example is… it would mean Kakariko moved its location after Alttp for EoW, but then moved back to its spot for ALBW and everything- all houses, paths, structures, were built identical to Alttp again.
Basically, if you place EoW after Alttp, there are inconsistent flip-flops on the map. If you place it after ALBW, there are inconsistent flip-flops on the map. However, FSA on the other hand, has all the same landmarks as Alttp… Eastern Palace, Desert Palace, it even has that rocky field to the east of the castle. Only part missing is the sanctuary to the north, but we don’t explore that area in FSA anyways.
If you place it centuries after FSA, there are virtually no inconsistencies. Nothing you need to work around regarding Ganon & the Triforce. It’s all set and ready to go. As stated earlier, I don’t put much weight on maps for the timeline, hence, I still think it being placed after ALBW isn’t an unreasonable option, nor would it shock me if Nintendo went with that, BUT… that still requires a few work around explanations whereas, after FSA doesn’t.
@@WindMageMaster There's a woman in the graveyard north of Hyrule Castle who mentions her grandfather telling her once about the hidden staircase in both A Link to the Past and A Link between Worlds. This points at Echoes of Wisdom been a sequel to A Link between Worlds as per there been no such hidden staircase in Four Swords Adventures (that i'm aware of), plus all the ruined dungeons from both ALttP and ALBW spread across EoW's gameworld.
Sorry for not replying yet to your comment on Silver Rooster's video, i've been busy as of late and haven't had enough time to write long comments.
@@javiervasquez625 Except the hidden staircase the woman is talking about is under the grave she’s standing by which leads to a small quest. At least, as far as I’m aware. I remember reading that dialogue and then moving the grave and she reacts to it when you talk to her again. And yeah, as I said about the dungeons and the map…. The Desert Palace specifically is inconsistent going from Alttp to ALBW to EoW. It would go from 3 entrances, to 2 entrances, back to 3 entrances. It seems like EoW completely disregards ALBW’s map changes. Except, if you place it before ALBW, there’s even more inconsistencies. FSA has all these same dungeons/locations… so, for me, it’s less of a mess placing it there… plus with the other reasons I provided.
But it happening after ALBW would be my 2nd pick and I wouldn’t be baffled if they placed it there. Map inconsistencies don’t really bother me. They *could* hypothetically also say the Triforce was moved and forgotten about after ALBW and that Ganon was forgotten too, and that they were eventually remembered again by LoZ. That’s possible. It’s just that, both Ganon and the Triforce are already relatively obscure elements after FSA as is, so if they placed it centuries after that, they wouldn’t need to explain that.
No worries on the other comment.
@@WindMageMaster Well i don't know, she seemed to be referencing the same hidden staircase given that she is, after all, hanging out in a similar graveyard to the ones from ALttP and ALBW regardless if it's not the exact same one.
Pretty sure Ganon is far from forgotten following Four Swords Adventures, if the Gerudo and Zelda knowing about his existence is anything to go by.
Thanks for the patience.
@@javiervasquez625 And just for reference, we’re talking about the staircase under the grave at the top right of the graveyard? Because yeah, there’s a staircase there just like Alttp & ALBW, but I wouldn’t see that as heavier evidence than the other points on the map that also reflect Alttp. The sanctuary and graveyard are not seen in FSA, however, we can’t explore that area to see if they are there or not. I also don’t think it would matter much because if FSA… which has Alttp map locations and elements from TWW… can be placed on the child timeline of all places, I don’t think Nintendo really looks at those details to determine a placement.
Yeah, but look at Ganondorf in FSA. It happens only some centuries after the other Ganondorf’s attack in TP. Hyrule and Zelda don’t know him in FSA (until he makes himself known). And while the Gerudo do not allow him to be king, they also don’t seem bothered by him until he actually breaks their laws. If Ganondorf from TP isn’t really remembered centuries later in FSA… why would FSA Ganon be remembered centuries later? He works in the shadows both in TP & FSA and his blue pig form specifically is only seen by few at the time. Doesn’t really leave the impression that he’d be remembered and recognized centuries after FSA. At least in my opinion.
@@WindMageMaster Well, regardless of wether "it's the same staircase or not", i wouldn't see past Nintendo's willingness to reference it considering their willingness to also references the dungeons from ALttP. Also, there is the fact that FSA's Hyrule is a literal _island_ in the middle of the ocean, meanwhile EoW's Hyrule looks to be part of an extended mainland very much like Zelda 2's Hyrule (which i already know you don't give a crap about so i'm just saying (no offense)).
I mean, Zelda does know who he is beforehand as per her description of him when he shows up. His identity is very much well known both within the Royal Family of Hyrule and the Gerudo tribe itself which i assure is gonna become even more well known after getting sealed away in the Four Sword, in order to prevent him from wreaking havoc ever again. From where did you get that "it only happens only some centuries after Twilight Princess" though? Nintendo has always been extremely ambiguous when it comes to the time gaps within games as per the whole The _Legend_ of Zelda theme which permeates the franchise, so i don't see why you should infer there's only a couple of centuries since TP Ganon got whacked and Hyrule became an island in the middle of the ocean. For all we know there could be *tens* of thousands of years seperating each major game in the timeline (eg: Breath of the Wild) in order to ensure history is lost long enough for it to become _legend,_ thus kickstarting the new The Legend of Zelda adventure.
Probably sometime after but relatively close to ALTTP and ALBW. Maybe like a few hundred or so years after. Because the world is pretty much the same as in those games, but most of the dungeon entrances from those games are in ruins. Also, the River Zora are friendly now whereas in ALTTP and ALBW they were enemies.
yes
Aight, there's a lot I have wrong with this, but I'll touch on just a couple things. Link's Awakening (LA) Link is heavily implied to be the same Link from A Link to the Past, even Hyrule Historia says that. Echoes of Wisdom Link (EoW) is implied to a be a new hero disconnected from previous games, though *theoretically*, let's say EoW Link did go on an adventure at sea and went through LA. LA Link *does* know Zelda, as implied by the first few lines from Marin, "Zelda? No, I'm Marin." (Paraphrasing). What's really confusing is that Oracles Zelda doesn't know Link, and Oracles Link is implied to be the same as ALttP Link, even HH admits that too. But that's a separate subject. The state of Ganondorf between games is interesting. He becomes Ganon in the Dark World before ALttP, is killed in ALttP, resurrected (in a botched way) and killed in Oracles, and is fully revived and killed in ALBW. Where does EoW take place in all this? Well, Ganon in EoW is merely an echo, and I speculate Null created Ganon's Echo from the Trident of Power. Yes this connects to Four Swords Adventures, which I have a differing placement of from most (and from HH), though that is a different discussion. Let's at least look at the Trident in EoW (which, Ganon uses a Trident in ALttP and ALBW). I speculate that Null created Ganon's Echo from his Trident much in the same way Null created Link's Echo from Link's weapons, being his Sword, Bow, and Bombs. Where's Ganon? I would say he's still dead. How Null got ahold of the Trident is a mystery, but it's possible. A great theory I heard is that Lorule's deterioration was caused by Null, and Null was able to capture many Tris due to there being no Golden Power in Lorule. After Lorule's Triforce was brought back, Null was pushed back, but he got a power boost and now had many Tris that he could use to make Echoes. This, of course, would place EoW after ALBW. I think a lot in EoW points to this placement, like how a lot is taken from ALttP and ALBW's overworlds, the Zora species seem to have settled their disputes (compared to the Oracles, at least), and the River Zora have become much more civilized since ALBW, with Queen Oren having an influence on that. Even some Zelda II enemies have sprung up, like Moas and Aruroda, potentially linking them to Zelda II (though there are some other enemies that were exclusive to other games, like Needleflies from Majoras Mask and Yetis as a species, though not an enemy, from Twilight Princess). As for the Triforce, the location of the Triforce hasn't every made too much sense between games. In ALttP, it was in the sacred realm, then Ganondorf took it. After Ganon was defeated, the Triforce was probably just put back in the sacred realm, however in Oracles, it is in Hyrule Castle? It's possible the Hylians moved it into Hyrule Castle after ALttP, as without a Temple of Time, it's easy for someone like Ganondorf to waltz in, like he did in ALttP. Though, after the Oracles, it really doesn't make much sense. He idea that the Triforce became birds and flew out is kinda ridiculous, and it's looking into a clever transition a little too much. Even if it did, why would the Triforce decide to go to Ganon, Zelda, and the Triforce of Courage just chill in the Sacred Realm? Even if it stayed in Hyrule Castle after Oracles, going from it to ALBW doesn't make sense, so something else must be going on here, but there's no clue as to what exactly. Going from ALBW to EoW does, however, as the Triforce is whole at the end of ALBW and in the Sacred Realm and it can be deduced that the Triforce was brought out of the Sacred Realm in EoW, still whole
I got a different theory that might be a big stretch.
In my opinion EOW is located after the theorized convergence of the three timelines but before the third foundation of Hyrule ( second if you don't count new Hyrule of Spirit Tracks), here is why i think this is the case:
- First of all if we look at the map of EOW we recognize many of the landmarks we have in the downfall timeline but in ruins or slightly changed, which clearly indicates that these events take place much after ALTTP and ALBW, but at the same time we find others we saw in BOTW and TOTK. There is Hebra Mountain and Mount Lanayru, then we have the Faron wetlands, who really look like an early version of the jungle we see in the Faron region in BOTW and TOTK, the geographical location also matches. The volcano who was known as Death Mountain is called Eldin volcano, just like in the aforementioned Zelda games. If the convergence of the timelines is true, then it would stand to reason that this Hyrule would have places from Hyrules of different timelines and resemble thus an early version of the massive continent we see later;
- The second point is not as strong as the first one but looking at the dialogues, we can notice that after rescuing the King from the rift, he mentions that the legend tells that in times of trouble a hero and a priestess always appear to save the kingdom, a legend told in a similar fashion to the one Impa from BOTW tells Link, possibly implying the close relation of the events of this game with those of the open world Zeldas.
It seems Hyrule is very prosperous.and mysteriously there are a lot of OoT elements. But it is sure after ALBW, since in that game Zelda and "shashshahla" are aware of the triforce, the master Sword and GANON. This game seems in an age only very old archives tell these games as legends. And the Great Deku Tree, instead of guarding the Master Sword, is Guarding the Triforce. I would say this EOW marks the beginning of the period of the Golden Age in which the royal family controls the whole Triforce, until the tragedy of Zelda "the first".
In my mind, it is either after ALttP and ALBW but before TLoZ and AoL. Null is seemingly the source of all evil in the Zelda Universe, and is killed in EoW. Leaving only Zelda One and Two where Ganon is revived, being the last evil thing in Zelda (in that timeline) and killed letting Hyrule be free from evil and in peace for good.
Or it is the very last game in the downfall timeline, dramatically ending with the root of EVERYTHING being slain and peace returning to Hyrule. After all, they call the Triforce, The Prime Energy, meaning it has been so long they forgot what it is called. Also in this game, Ganon isn’t real because he's been killed in AoL (if it’s last in the timeline).
The reveal of Null changes what Zelda has been, and it doesn’t make sense to me that there could be more Ganon after him.
Link's Awakening original instruction booklet includes a blurb about it being set after Link saved Zelda and went off to explore the world.
thats true
What if link's awakening was him escaping the void for the first time?
I have nothing to back this up so don't yell at me
lol maybe. I think Link's Awakening was all a dream though
@triforcetimes that's what I mean was a statue in a dream then gaind the ability to move in the void when he woke up
I like this theory. If Link's Awakening is all a dream, then maybe Echoes of Wisdom takes place while Link is experiencing Link's Awakening.
@@Rookie_Mode2023 That's exactly what I was trying to say!
Every Zelda game moving forward will take place “after” TOTK.
They will take “lore” from past games and re-invent new stories out of them that we know or don’t know that will still make sense to the series, like this new recently released game with a new big baddie.
Im guessing that this takes place, thousands of years later (from totk) and that there will be other games In between the two 🤷♂️
I doubt every zelda game moving forward will be after TOTK
@ I’m willing to bet on that, since the original director wants to (or already has) step down from his legacy and let the new generation of developers “continue” the series (which is why he is now a “overseer” to the franchise).
Adding in between timelines from past stories, will just cause confusion to BOTW & TOTK and a divide from fans (which I’m sure Nintendo doesn’t want again)… The old timeline is complete! And they are moving forward with a new one that takes place after TOTK.
intresting theory, what evidence is this based on?
@ it’s based off of old interviews from post BOTW and a recent one about the timeline placement of this new release game, which is said to take place “way beyond” TOTK.
(Thankfully) this ended up not being the case
Definitely after A Link Between Worlds, and IMHO, after Zelda 2 and even Tears of the Kingdom.
(INCOMING WALL OF TEXT)
The biggest support for this game being beyond every other Zelda game, IMO, is that Ganon is gone, and has been gone from living memory for centuries...and even from the legends. Neither the Gerudo (who spawned him) nor the Hyrulian Royal Family (the Zelda franchise's in-universe keepers of the deep lore) remember him. In the game, Ganon is only referred to as a "blue monster" and maybe "the most powerful rift monster".
In fact, considering everything else in this game, I think that the events of Echoes of Wisdom were the endgame of a millennia-long plan by the Golden Goddesses (Din, Nayru and Farore) to deal with Null once and for all...one that might have been enacted sooner if not for the constant presence of Ganon via the curse of Demise. It was only just prior to the events of Echoes, after so many years of Ganon not being around, that the conditions for Null's true defeat could arise - the creation of the Weapons of Might, and the magical potential to use echo powers as well as a Tri. The Master Sword is a weapon to use against the monsters of the Demon Tribe, but the Weapons of Might and the power of Echoes were the keys to defeating Null.
Why did the Goddesses not just destroy Null themselves instead of leaving that job to mortals? IMO, it's because they can't destroy _anything_ themselves...they can only create.
So, here is what I think was the Goddesses' plan:
1. Create Hyrule to seal Null away.
2. Create the Tris to maintain Hyrule's integrity.
3. Create mortals with the potential to one day oppose Null.
4. Leave behind their energy as the Prime Energy/Triforce.
5. Wait until mortals figure out how to harness the power of the rifts and use it as a weapon against Null.
5a. Ensure that a chosen hero and chosen priestess exist at any point when Hyrule is threatened.
5b. Give the priestess the potential to learn echo magic.
6. Somehow let Null discover the existence of the Triforce, knowing full well he'd pursue it.
7. They give Zelda their sanctions, knowing that Null would make an echo of her to seize the Triforce.
8. Null gets the Triforce, and the failsafe kicks in, giving the chosen priestess Zelda the Wisdom piece, the chosen hero Link the Courage piece and leaving Null with Power.
9. Link and Zelda, armed with the Weapons of Might and Echo Magic, confront Null, take the Triforce of Power from him, and make their wish to destroy him.
The reason is that while Null is cunning, he is simplistic in his goals and single-minded in his pursuit of goals.
tl;dr, Null thought he was playing checkers with the Goddesses when they were really playing 5D chess.
If we should put this game in the timeline we most first look at the two games with the same map. A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds. We can then see that Echoes of Wisdom is sometime after those games, probably a very long time after because the most of places is in ruins. So I could think this game could be the last game in this timeline.
Then if we think like this. Pretending Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom is after all of those games (I don’t like that theory but I should use it) and if Null has opened up all those rift in every timeline like in the child timeline, adult timeline and the fallen hero timeline at the same time. So this is the reason everything will be connected with each other. No one will remember anything from before and everything will start from the “beginning” again.
But Zelda is stopping this in this game so when she do that we have made another new timeline. If Zelda fails we have a timeline that starts with the games Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom but if she defeat Null we have made a new timeline again. A new continue on the fallen hero timeline.
Maybe, maybe not.
I'm sure they reference in the game that Link is the 'Hero of Legend'. I think this game could be set just before 'A Link to the past'.
What if echoes takes place after Zelda, two to adventure of link where many years after the kingdom has restored its glory. Like in link to the past …
I feel like after Links Awakening feels perfect for this game. The map is just a bigger ALTTP map with an ocean so maybe that’s where Link came from after that game.
makes sense
I like to think that EOW is close to Four Swords Adventures.
My reasoning is that both of them are (as far as I know) the only two games in the franchise that, simultaneously, have:
-2D gameplay
-Both River Zoras and Gerudos.
The Gerudos being my strongest point since they simply DO NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE ELSE on the timelines, besides on the child timeline.
BUT, I think my theory would be even better if Four Swords Adventures was actually in the Fallen Hero timeline. If so, I believe both of them would be after A Link Between Worlds and before Zelda 1. That would explain the map looking like ALTTP, while Hyrule is not destroyed like in Zelda 1 and 2.
I mean sure but OoT happened in all timelines so realistically all the races most likely around as Nintendo has never once confirmed they went extinct in any of the timelines.
@@firionkaiser8291 I don't remember where I saw It, but the main theory as to why the gerudo never appear in the fallen timeline is that, after siding with ganondorf, they were either killed of or exiled of hyrule.
@@joaolucasoliveirareis1822 Its a possibility but never confirmed. To me the latter makes more sense as that seems to be what happened in the child timeline too if TP is anything to go by. After thousands of years they finally return.
they never prioritize how the games link to each other in the timeline, so, as in botw and totk, what seems more likely is that most of the games happen in alternative universes, with some similar events, some missing events, that way every reference makes sense and every contradition/plot hole can be ignored easily, at least until developers and creators start to explain every detail and how the games stories actually connect to each other.
On that logic, Echoes of Wisdom takes place after the events of Albw and Triforce Heroes (or the equivalent in their unique universe), thats why the map has a lot of similarities but at the same time there are lots of things that differ in shape/position or have different names
SPOILER It is made clear in the game that Ganon is an echo from the beginning
Definitely after a link to the past but the exact placement is still up for debate. I am more inclined to believe it takes place after albw at the very least because the locations from alttp are not in ruins in albw, but are in ruins in EoW.
@@andresbarquin There's a woman in the graveyard north of Hyrule Castle who mentions her grandfather once telling her about the hidden staircase in both A Link to the Past and A Link between Worlds. This points at Echoes of Wisdom been a sequel to A Link between Worlds as per the hidden staircase, plus all the ruined dungeons from both ALttP and ALBW.
Interesting, makes sense
Didnt they steal the triforce in ALBW, or try to?
@@spiderduck5794It was returned to its rightful place at the end of the game.
Correction:
The Triforce is not split in A Link between Worlds, it's put back together again after Yu-Ganon, who took both Triforce of Wisdom and Power, has been sent to Hell.
Link and Zelda used their Triforce to recreate Lorule's Triforce that they foolishly destroyed.
Though there are possibly more Theories for that Ending:
It is possible that since Ganon basically died in another Universe *seperate* from Hyrule that his Souk was dragged to the respective Afterlife, but by going through the space between Dimensions, he Eventually Encountered Null who empowered him and mind Controlled him as his Avatar, and after Ganon died in the Prologue, Null used that Power Boost that he had and created more massive rifts than ever before.
First, I would like to point out that the final battle with Demise took place in the ancient past of Skyward Sword, meaning that the curse was in place before the game started.
With how Hyrule, and Zelda's name are not very well known out side of Hyrulians, how small the Hyrule population seems, how close the Hyrule royalty is to the people, the fact that the three goddesses have not yet departed from the land, and there are no indications of a previous Link; I place the game very early in the timeline. Between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, to be precise. Nobody refers to Ganon as Ganon, but as a Blue Demon; this could indicate that Ganon is something more primal, like the embodiment of the curse. I think this link may even go on to become the Hero of Men.
thanks for your contributions
@@triforcetimes Sure thing. Just found the channel, so I'm looking back through your other videos.
They do refer to the blue monster as Ganon, only later in the game. The boss battle also clearly indicates that it is indeed “Ganon”, so it has to take place after OoT since it’s Ganon’e first chronological appearance.
The rest is up to theorists 😆
@@enzokrikorian5580 The boss is indeed named "Ganon," in combat, but the name is never referenced in conversation. There is also nothing saying that the OoT Ganon is the first.
@@RyuuKageDesuIt is referenced in conversation. Both Tri and Minister Lefte call him Ganon, in conversation, after the battle with him at Hyrule Castle.
In my own experience in the game, I saw the Triforce and went "WAIT, the Prime Energy is the TRIFORCE!?" and I kinda projected that onto Zelda. I headcanon that the Triforce is still known in Echoes of Wisdom's Hyrule, and the "Prime Energy" is a misnomer for strategic reasons
Edit: As for my own timeline, I'm personally placing it at the end of the Skyfall Eon. Whilst the Gerudo were friendly in FSA, here we see them starting to become more isolationist, leading to the conditions seen in Ocarina of Time.
I don't see Echoes of Wisdom taking place between A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds, given that Zelda nor anyone else in the royal family know of Link, which would be impossible given that the Links in ALTTP, Link's Awakening and the Oracle games are the same person, the Hero of Legend, so Zelda would have recognized him (but then again I'm not sure if they recognize each other in the Oracle games).
I think it takes place between A Link Between Worlds and the first Legend of Zelda, where it has the space to have a different Link and Zelda and the Triforce is complete following ALBW. The biggest issue I see with this is the fact that the Triforce is called the Prime Energy in Echoes of Wisdom, which is probably going to cause problems with timeline placement no matter where you put it, but it could be that the royal family tried to get the kingdom to forget the Triforce after seeing what happened in both Hyrule and Lorule in ALBW, which could explain why nobody (even Tri) knows of the Triforce or "Prime Energy" except the King, Great Deku Tree, and three Goddesses.
Some people are taking this timeline way too seriously. The same Ganon design is used in The Legend of Zelda Four Swords Adventures.
@@MartKart8 Not really as he's three times the size of the original Ganon from A Link to the Past, has a long purplish cape in contrast to the red cape-wearing Ganon from ALttP, the breastplate he wears looks absolutely nothing like the one worn by ALttP Ganon and his trident has a completely different origin and design to the one wielded by the Ganon from the Downfall Timeline. They're nothing alike.
@@javiervasquez625 Ganon's appearance is never consistent. he has feet in ALttP but hooves in all other appearances. Large horns in OoT but nowhere else, He uses a 2 ended trident in EoW but only 1 end in all other games.
The Ganon from Four Swords Adventures is close enough, it doesn't need to be 1:1 to be the same. OoT Ganon, ALttP Ganon, and TP Dark Beast Ganon are all the same guy yet look nothing alike.
@@Olimario34_ The Downfall Timeline Ganon is still consistent _enough_ across his many reincarnations in this timeline compared to the 10 foot giant with purple cape and light brownish breastplate which neither of the Downfall Timeline Ganons ever wore. OoT Ganon has horns because he was only using the Triforce of Power to transform into a pig instead of the *complete* Triforce like his Downfall Timeline self and the reason why EoW Ganon uses the double bladed trident is because it's a _reused asset_ from Link's Awakening Remake which Nintendo was too cheap not to reuse for money and time's sake.
As stated above, FSA Ganon looks nothing like Downfall Timeline Ganon who's appearance has remained consistent throughout most of his resurrections. OoT Ganon only had the Triforce of Power, ALttP Ganon had the complete Triforce and TP Ganon was corrupted by the Twilight (hence why his silhouette at the start of the fight ressembles a Shadow Beast).
@@javiervasquez625 I feel like your stalking me, as you've commented before on my comments.
@@MartKart8 I'm not "stalking" for merely commenting on what the community has to say (regardless of who it is). I'm sorry if i ever gave you such an impression.
link from la and alttp are the same link... it's most likely after triforce heroes
WHO thought for even a second that this game is first in the timeline?
I toyed with the idea
I believe that the timeline is something they are working on piecing together so that it’s no longer a constant question void. Totk solidified the “end” of the timeline which is never truly the end but this game pieces it a bit more together like there will be a timeline conversion in a game farther down the line. I do believe a Zelda game with all three timelines colliding will happen in my lifetime
That would be very cool, I hope we see it
Except no it didn't. It was recently confirmed by Nintendo that BotW and TotK take place in their own continuity separate from the main timeline, so they aren't a part of it.
I wonder if Anyone has Connected the Dots as to Why Null is Called Null. It's Based on the Phrase Null and Void! Null Exists in a Void! Get it? Null and Void? And He's the Master of the Void! Ya! So There We Are.
Where did this info come from?
@@triforcetimescommon sense
null is also the german word for zero, wich is basicly nothing
Null is absence of value, not even zero.
Imagine a FULL roll of toilet paper on the toilet paper holder, call that 100.
Imagine an EMPTY roll of toilet paper on the toilet paper holder, call that 0.
Imagine a MISSING roll of toilet paper on the toilet paper holder, that's null.
Null is just the German word for nothing. It’s also a term used by computer programmers to represent an object having the value of nothing (null being a different value from zero and one that is handled differently than a number). It’s just the absence of being.
Link's Awakening is a direct sequel to A Link to the Past. Same Link, same Zelda which is who Link mistakes Marin for (even if she doesn't show up). In Echoes of Wisdom Link and Zelda don't know each other which means they are not the same people as in a Link to the Past/Link's Awakening/Oracle games. Unless Nintendo retcons it
Is on its own timeline 🥲
nooooo
The thing that bothers me the most is that nobody knows about Ganon... Luberry just calls him "that giant blue pig" ; surely if EoW took place in the downfall timeline (or even after OOT or close to FSA), they would know about it - and about the Triforce as well : nobody seems to know what it is, except the royal family. They alsod call it the "prime energy", and they all seem surprised when it shatters after Null touched it...
I know there are plenty of evidences going against a placement before Skyward Sword, but there also still is, and I personally really like this theory... 🥲
A few hundred years after Adventure of Link makes most sense
why do you think that?
I would place this game even later in the timeline namely hundreds of years after Adventure of Link. The central hyrule map could still be similar to Alttp since Zelda 1+2 takes place in northeastern hyrule. The fact that both ganon(just an echo in this game) and the triforce seem to be forgotten by most is a strong argument. Also enemies like Aruroda and Moas only ever appeared in Adventure of Link prior to this. This would also explain some of the throwbacks to botw/totk placing this a few thousand years before said games
Great game, thoroughly enjoyed playing. Thanks for the video, love these theories and figuring out where in the timeline each game fits. PS - your end screens don't show up. 😉
Glad you enjoyed it!
Def after ALttP
that makes sense
Like your theory for the most part, but I think this is the first game after Zelda II The Adventure of Link. My reason is simple. Every game in the timeline has a version of Spectacle Rock in the north near the center of the map. This game does not have a Spectacle Rock. It seems to have been destroyed. So this would logically put EoW after Zelda II.
Yeah, the fact that the Triforce has seemingly been forgotten about and is referred to as a mythical Prime Energy does indicate that it's been a very long time since it was last used. It would also make sense that no one knows anything about Ganon because his resurrection cycle was permanently stopped in Adventure of Link.
This could also fit in before Zelda 1, assuming that enough time has passed between the games, but your point about Spectacle Rock does make me lean more towards EoW currently being the final game in that timeline.
@@JediMB Plus, lore wise Ganon was not resurrected at the end of AoL and the triforce was made whole again. If peace was in the land, more races would then move into the kingdom. Zelda and AoL where in the era of decline, this could be a time where Hyrule began to have a renaissance.
West of Goron city (or whatever is called in english, I play in spanish) With a bridge on top.
I assumed that was spectacle rock but 🤷🏽♂️
@@danixove2358 I see the spot you are talking about. I would have to disagree. I have a video going over the various maps that are similar to EoW. If you take a look at the video you will see where spectacle rock should be.
I wanted a new downfall timeline game. Not what I was expecting (yet to pick it up. My backlog is getting way to big) but what you're peiceing together sounds right without me seeing the location and such that it's got to be after alttp. I really want a ga.e after zelda 2. But that will never happen
I'd love a sequel to zelda 2
@@triforcetimes I'd actually be curious to see them give another attempt at the "Triforce Trilogy" project. There had been a proposal to remake the NES games and release a brand new third adventure for the Link from those games as well, and they would've been called the Triforce Trilogy. New ideas were added to the point where it didn't resemble the originals so much anymore and the project got renamed as the Mystic Seeds Trilogy, and then they struggled to make a password system that could be used to pass data between the three games so they reshuffled assets from the three games into two games and the result that came out of that was Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons.
But I think EoW could give them some foundation to start with for a new attempt at the Triforce Trilogy. Make a copy of the original LoZ that's as faithful as possible to its overworld and dungeon layouts while being built in EoW's engine. Create an overworld map that follows the basic outline of AoL's overworld map layout but fleshes it out better, with all the towns built into the new landscape instead of going to separate screens for them. And this new AoL map should reuse the updated LoZ map (with LoZ's dungeons sealed off, but maybe some bonuses could be added to this region) for that one region in the southwest corner of the AoL map. Also, retcon the Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Deku Scrubs, and whatever else into this new AoL instead of making all of the towns Hylian. Where LoZ and EoW's dungeons each used side view rooms as transitional tunnels to break up the overhead sections, perhaps this new AoL could sparingly add some overhead sections to its palaces that act as transitional areas to break up all the side view stuff into sections. And follow these revamped games up with whatever the third adventure was going to be. And perhaps the locations we visit in that one go for more of a 50/50 split between overhead and side view styled room design. Neither style would be used as transitions between sections, it's just that these sections are built this way and those sections are built that way.
I find it odd how many people try and place this game in the timeline while ignore specific details and highlighting others. No one has talked about how the prophesy thing the King mentions doesn't talk about a 'Princess of Wisdom' but calls her a 'Priestess of Wisdom'. To me this implies this is early in the timeline, pre Ocarina of Time even. Looking at that group of games I see other similarities as well, such as Link not using the Master Sword, ie the Four Sword and Picori Blade. The other tell tale clue, for me at least, the the fact it is not called the Triforce, but the Prime Energy, Only in the Minish cap is the Triforce not called by that name, its the Light Force. And while Light Force and Prime Energy are also different it shows that the commonly known name of this relic is not what comes to be known later.
As for everyone pointing to the map and the art style and using that as evidence of the timeline placement in the Downfall timeline, this video points out the answer to that in that the developers don't consider timeline placement when making the game. Reusing the same engine as Link's Awaking Remake does not mean it has to be a sequel or even related story wise to that game. Likewise looking across all the games, there are not many similarities between maps and related timeline games. Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess are only set a few generations apart, 200-400 years, there is no way the landscape would change that drastically in so short a time, but the map would disagree. Same with games in the downfall timeline. Link to the Past and Link between worlds use different maps, but if you believe its the same Link in those games why isn't the map identical(alternatively they have a similar time gap to the previous example of being only generations apart).
If this was intended to be in the downfall timeline they easily could have kept the Triforce as the Triforce, why rename it unless it was deliberately named as a clue to its placement. As for Ganon's appearance and presence, what if Ganon is just a monster that is just a more advance evolution of blin. If this is the case, then of course Null would be able to make an echo of him. It could also be that Ganon is a unique monster, which we have seen as dungeon bosses throughout the games. If either of these is the case then the explanation of Ganondorf taking on this form in Ocarina of Time after using the Triforce of Power on himself is that he turned himself into an existing monstrous form(or that curse from Demise did at least). We do see Ganon in the Four Swords games and at least one of them is on the timeline before Ocarina and proves that Ganon is not locked to the existence of Ganondorf.
Thanks for your theory
Does anyone actually think ALTTP and ALBW stars the same Link?
@@ravenebony2267 I do think that, but mostly because its implied in Linked Universe and I like the story being told there, I know the official timeline they are not the same Link.
@KannaTaisho i still say ALttP Link is also Oracles Link, but the official timeline says otherwise now
So i guess i understand
I'll give you the priestess thing, but other points you gave don't exactly line up.
1) Link doesn't use the Master Sword, so the game likely takes place pre-OoT
> I hate to sound rude, but we're already off on the wrong foot with that one. Out of the 20 or so games in the series, the Master Sword has only appeared in about half of them, and it's doubtful that the ones in the Oracle games and Four Swords Anniversary Edition are even the real one. And the only games that didn't have the Master Sword and take place after OoT are the Minish Cap and Four Swords, both of which use a purely sacred weapon as opposed to the manmade Sword of Might, which seems to be closer to the Magical Sword or Noble Sword.
2) The Triforce isn't always referred to by name; in The Minish Cap, it's called the Light Force
> This is completely incorrect. The Triforce is a relic left behind by the Golden Goddesses that was locked in the Sacred Realm some time after SS, resembles three golden triangles forming a larger triangle, and can be used separately as the Triforces of Power, Wisdom and Courage. The Light Force on the other hand is an energy brought by the Picori/Minish used to aid the Hero of Men that was then placed into the bloodline of the royal family, and is represented as a single golden triangle. You may be able to say this is the Triforce of Wisdom, but no, not really. Whenever a piece of the Triforce is taken from its bearer, it comes out all at once as that triangle. The Light Force, when being extracted by Vaati, didn't do that, coming out gradually, which was what gave Link the chance to defeat the sorcerer. I also don't recall removing the Triforce from someone to be lethal, which Vaati's ritual to take the Light Force from Zelda would have been.
3) Having the same engine and artstyle doesn't mean the games are sequels
> This is correct, but I have some gripes with your arguments. The maps being different across games is most likely a gameplay choice to keep things interesting for the players, and there is something to be said about gameplay versus story. Just take a look at the FSA map. And the example you gave for the same Link needing to explore the same Hyrule is completely backwards due to these being *different* Links exploring the *same* map, or something incredibly close, not as close as "I was originally going to be BotW DLC pack 3", but close nonetheless. And these aren't even the same map as EoW! Not to mention most of the 3D games' areas are separated by loading screens, and who knows the distance those cover.
Final) General points for why EoW can't take place on the Downfall Timeline
> I agree that that isn't where the game takes place, but I find your points here lacking as well:
>> *Point:* The Triforce is called the Prime Energy, so it should take place pre-OoT
>> *Response:* We go from "Triforce" before and during SS, then randomly call it "the Prime Energy" afterwards, then go back to "Triforce" during OoT and onwards? That sounds ridiculous, even for this clusterf*ck of a timeline.
>> *Point:* Ganon is may be the echo of an original monster (like the dungeon bosses) or new type of Blin
>> *Responce:* He can't be a new Blin. All of Null's Echoes we've seen with a resemblance of agency are aware of who they are, or who they're copying. As for him being original... No. There's a reason these are called *Echoes*. They're *copies*, Tri says so themself. As for the bosses, they either have appeared before (Volvagia, Manhandalla, Ghoma), haven't been seen yet (since Null can ignore time and space, being the embodiment of the void) or are the Seismic Talus who looks an awful lot like Ramrock from OoA.
>> *Point:* Because a Four Swords game takes place before OoT, and since Ganon appears in one and is sealed in the Four Sword, we know he isn't linked to Ganondorf.
>> *Responce:* Yes, he can't possibly be linked be linked to Ganondorf because of his one appearance in a FS game where he was subsequently sealed, that game being the only one to take place *after* OoT, and that also states this Ganon is a result of another Ganondorf (because the last one died) taking the Dark Trident. The math ain't mathing here.
I think BOTW ans TOTK utterly destroyed the original lore and timeline to the point where they either need to be retconned from existence (the good option) or the timeline is just not a thing anymore.
The kinda are. I forgot what book it's in or where it is but BotW & TotK are kinda just off to the side in their own category, not connected to the timeline.. 🤦♀️ Nintendo themselves were just kinda like "meh, we're not even going to try with those games anymore." I'm pleasantly surprised that EoW is more of a return to form.
They didn't destroy anything. Just added new elements, like other entries. They are set very far in the future, within another Hyrule Kingdom founded by the Rauru and Sonia (Hyrule has been refounded as New Hyrule in Spirit Tracks before, so it isn't impossible another founding of the kingdom). But that doesn't negate everything from Skyward Sword until them.
@@gandalfdiggory No, BotW and TotK were confirmed by that book to be their own separate continuity independent of the main timeline. Nintendo is likely starting to move away from the timeline concept altogether, as it wasn't originally their intention for all the Zelda games to be interconnected from the beginning.
@@LordSiravant They are separated in the sense they are so further in the future that it doesn't matter which timeline they come from (there's even a sidequest in BotW to illustrate this, the one with the Leviathans). So yes, in a sense they are in their "own timeline", but they are still in the greater timeline (and at least for now is up to debate which branch or if the branches somehow merged, etc etc)
@@LordSiravant And in the timelines from Encyclopedia and Hystoria it is stated that in the end the timeline is not fixed, always open to change and to thr player's interpretation. So in MY interpretation (valid by Nintendo's own saying), all the events of the 3 branches happened at one point or another in all 3 of them (which explains the elements from all 3 found in BotW). So BotW/TotK can be in any of the 3. And at one point Hyrule got destroyed and was refounded by Rauru and Sonia.
Despite the map being more akin to Downfall Timeline I'd say Child's. The only instance we see a huge geographic change is TWW flooding. Other than that there's no reason for Downfall and Child to be that different except for artstyle and game direction choices.
I'd put it after Twilight Princess but before Four Swords.
We know Zoras lifespan is huge, which makes me believe it extends to Lord Jabu Jabu as well. Maybe the giant fish we see in EoW is still the same from OoT. That's why I wouldn't go after FS because it'd be way too much time for the fish to be living.
There's no reason to believe the yetis are exclusive to CT, they might exist in other timelines, but in my headcanon Yeto is Condé's deceased father.
Bombfish debut is in TP.
Not related but the Rifts are quite similar to the Twilight phenomena where only Link and Zelda (triforce chosen ones) mantain some sort of control inside the zones. Regular people are petrified or become lost souls.
Deku Scrubs.
I agree with you this game is most likely placed in the Downfall Timeline. But I also think looks can be decieving. The prime example is ALBW Link being the same one that appears in TFH but for art direction they changed him to look like TWW/FS Link. Beast Ganon from OoT being The Ganon we see in 2D games despite size and colors.
There was no change though, it just expanded the borders further North, South and east so that Gorons, Sea Zora and Dekus would make sense being there.
The devs had an 8-9 day bootcamp going over stuff like this so it would make sense. I hope they reveal everything they went over during said bootcamp.
Has anyone else ever thought that Totk is both the beginning and the end of the timeline?
It's been thought of, Ganons establishment in the game goes against it sence he didnt appear until Demise crused the land in skyward sword
It's not connected to the timeline at all. Nintendo recently confirmed this.
"Where is the Master Sword?"
If this is after Link to the Past, it would be the Golden Sword now, wouldn't it?
not necessarily
one problem about the Links awaking thing is Link says zelda to Marin so dout it is a sequal to links awaking
My sugestion is that echoes of wisdom takes place at the end of the downfall timeline because there is no master sword
Interesting idea
The Master Sword would not work against a primordial being like Null. The mighty Sword is made of stones only found where rifts were repaired, being an Anti-Null weapon because it is born not to oppose evil, but opposing the nothingness
its after a link between worlds, this is so obious
lol
spoilers for Echoes of wisdom
its revealed that we are fighting an echo of ganon in our first fight with him, this is my reason to believe EoW happens before FSA
remember how ganon dies in TP, but is somehow back on his feet kickin in FSA, i beleive that the ganon in FSA is also an echo made by Vaati, being a dark mage and all im to believe he has some knowledge on echo creation, which he uses to create a fake ganon in FSA
I like this, especially because Null looks so much like Vaati's Final Form - big black cloud blob with two long arms (both have three gold claws on each hand and do the same arm-sticking-out-of-floor attack!) but the Gerudo in FSA discuss a new male born to their tribe who goes to the Pyramid and gets the Dark Trident which makes him the big bad beast.
With the great deco tree being alive, I have no idea
Could be the descendant of the original deku tree. A lot of locations from lttp are these but it's not 100% identical and I suspect it's the same here. In downfall timeline link died after freeing the sages so the sprout was still born. That he doesn't look like his ww counterpart means very little
In Ocarina of Time, the Deku Tree is reborn as a sprouting immediately after the darkness is cleared from his home forest. You didn’t even have to defeat Ganon yet.
Using that as precedent, it’s fair to think the tree would reincarnate into the Downfall timeline too. None of this explains why the Triforce is enshrined below inside underground ancient ruins, but it also doesn’t exclude the downfall timeline.
If that’s the only question mark, I think putting EoW at in the latter stages of the downfall timeline would make the most sense.
Putting it at the end probably works best. The seal on Null was due to creation itself, so his escaping it threatens to be a word ending event, not just a kingdom destroying event like Ganon. That seal should last a very long time indeed, but nothing lasts forever
Before Ocarina of time. Why? Young Lord Jabu Jabu and clearly the same Deku tree from OOT. Also the Triforce gets filled in after Link and Zelda make their wish and OOT has that 4th triangle on the Hylian shield. No clue how Ganon was captured/defeated maybe time doesn't apply to Null.
@@nworder4life Both the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu can have _offsprings_ as per the Deku Tree Sprout and both the Jabu-Jabu from Oracle of Ages and Jabun from The Wind Waker. It's not far-fetched to deduce the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu in Echoes of Wisdom are _descendants_ of the previous ones from Ocarina of Time.
@@javiervasquez625 So what are your thoughts on the 4th Triangle? Which we see clearly on the OOT shield. Lots of people have missed this but the Triforce empty middle piece gets filled in after Zelda and Link make the wish.
@@nworder4life As far as i'm concerned, the one on the N64 Hylian Shield was just an aesthetic choice by Nintendo which they then randomly removed in the 3DS remaster without any explanation worth theorizing about its removal. As for the Triforce seemingly becoming a "Tetraforce" at the end of the Echoes of Wisdom... does it? I've just seen the ending to verify and didn't spot any fourth triangle.
@@javiervasquez625 I’ve been seeing people say a 4th triangle was revealed in the missing space during the ending. I played the ending, rewatched it several times, and looked at every instance the Triforce is on screen. I actually think people are somehow trying to force themselves to see a 4th triangle. The one thing I saw recently is that someone said they believe the empty middle space represents Null. That could make sense, but it’s not implying a 4th piece… maybe some people ran with that and thought there’s a 4th? I really don’t know.
interesting theory here
But... Great Deku tree is alive... Right?
Apparently, he was also alive in A Link to the Past and A Link between Worlds albeit beyond the _boundaries_ where the Hyrules from these two aforementioned games ended. Basically speaking, we simply didn't see the Deku Tree in ALttP and ALBW as he wasn't part of those Hyrules.
Maybe there could be another timeline split
@@javiervasquez625 How? In the timeline where Link dies Ganondorf should have still cursed him.
@@nworder4life ...and so a new _Deku Tree Sprout_ was born to replace the one who died... (just like in the Adult Timeline).
@@javiervasquez625 but this Deku tree clearly looks like the exact same 1 from OOT. Not only that but the lego set that just came out clearly said it's the OOT Deku tree and again looks exactly the same as this 1.
IMO this Deku tree is the same tree in OOT, and Jabu jabu is a younger version of himself. Aside from no Master Sword which could be chalked up to simply being lost...the only other big contradiction I see to that is the echo of ganon. Which I'll say is a result of null being outside of the rules of time? I dunno, other than that this seems like a perfect fit for a game taking place hundreds of years before Ocarina. The Hylia statue in the basement would suggest AFTER Skyward Sword.
timeline order according to my brain, (single player games only) (retconing loz 1 and 2 because waste of time) with botw and totk,
Ss, Mc, Oot, Mm, Tp, Ww, Phg, St, Alttp, Oos, Ooa, La, Albw, Eow, Botw, Totk
It's after Link's Awakening and before A Link Between Worlds. I think this game is a different Link and Zelda.
nice theory
Honestly, I don't think it's part of the timeline at all. I think it's its own separate continuity much like BotW and TotK were recently confirmed to be.
botw and totk were not recently confirmed to be part of their own continuity, i really don't get why everyone keeps saying that. that timeline that has been going around with botw and totk seeming "separate" has been the exact same way Nintendo and the zelda team have presented those games in the timeline since botw in 2017. why? cause as they've said several times, they like seeing the fans speculate and theorize. it isn't a confirmation of a separate placement, it's just being ambiguous
BOTW and TOTK basically aren’t part of the timeline from my understanding?
I wouldn’t be surprised if EOW is also a stand alone title?
They are. They're just incredibly far into the future.
They seem to be on their own separate branch, perhaps way in the future
What if the game's Start is the end of ALTTP?
I like this
Idk to me it seems very much like Nintendo has just abandoned the timeline and merged everything together.
what makes you think that?
@@triforcetimes It’s just the way it doesn’t seem like these games are sequels to any particular game like they’ve merged all the games into one. I mean maybe there is an explanation that could work for that it just seems very likely Nintendo has like soft rebooted the series.
@@DaGhostToastRoast There's developer interviews specifically for this game where they discuss paying more attention to the lore this time following fan feedback to the recent games.
the timeline doesnt exist
explain
Then again, time also doesn't exist.
At the very least multiple timelines exist. For example,
OoT > WW > PH > ST
LttP > LA > LBW
MC > FS > FSA
…to name just three. It’s only a matter of how these various sequences fit together.