I’ve been applying this method since January. I like to run ultras. Training like this makes everything so much easier and more pleasurable. I now run almost every day. Never get injured. No aches. No pain. Weekly mileage is twice what it used to be. My Garmin watch says my VO2 max keeps increasing but I’m not even doing intervals! Can’t wait to run my next ultra, maybe in the fall, Covid-situation permitting.
This is a great training tool. Especially because ones hr can vary from run to run. for example - on some days I can run a 10min/mile @ 1 incline at 135-140bpm (I’m 45 years). At others it’s a 10:30min/mile to get that hr. I’ve noticed that when I’m running fasted he hr is higher for the same pace. This is great feedback - so, basically i can vary my training by hr rather than speed. The advantage is I can basically do 2x the weekly distance without getting injured - which means that by race day I’ve essentially done twice the training....awesome. Also, this definitely helps with increasing speed - because it gives you that aerobic base and makes it easier to increase difficulty. My rule of thumb is 80% MAT; 20% anaerobic training. I’m currently running about 36-48 miles/week, training 6 days. Haven’t had an injury in 3 years. Thanks Phil - this is a great strategy!!! You can build aerobic training volume without wearing out my joints.
I am a huge fan of Dr. maffetone and I’m also a fan of chiropractic medicine. Dr. Maffetone has many degrees and accomplishments and it should be noted that he is a Doctor of Chiropractic, not an MD. That’s a compliment.
It's a fine model for triathlon training if you're 20 or even 30 years old and using a 155 HR. It's slowing you down to a healthy 155 on easy days. You should be there on these days. A little too scientized vs the past, when they primarily use feel and HR was merely a check for E pace every now and again. Further when you're 50 and trying to train in the 120s HR all the time, runners stagnate. HIT works because it shoots your HR into the 180s, 190s, or 200s. Once a week is good enough for HIT though. The "age" aspect of the formula is, of course, unscientific, so too much scientizing can be worse than useless for many people. Run easy pace easy. Easy by feel.
How he mentions when training like this, at the end of the run, you should feel like you could do it again, MAN so true! I’ve been running like this for just a week now and man! The huge decrease in fatigue! Incredible recovery! And aches and pains gone! And at the end of these 10, 11, 12 mile runs, I finish and I’m just like wow, let’s go again😂also I’m sleeping better and dropping weight🤩☺️
I understand what is being said but I also understand how difficult this would be. I am 55 and just qualified for the Boston Marathon after training for 2 years. I would never have been able to run at the qualifying time if all my training would have been under a HR of 180-age = 125bpm. My pace at this HR is good for a recovery run but it would be about 90 sec per mile too slow for a good marathon. Maybe what he is saying is that if I stuck to this training method that I would eventually get down to the quality pace.
***** I tried to be strict with this on my Saturday run this week. I kept my heart rate between 127 and 130 for over 2 hours. I can definitely see the benefit of this in the long run and easy run days. Do you think we can still allow a little speed work and threshold pace work during the week?
Speed work can be incorporated. I like to do strides where you focus on short bursts of proper running form on a track or HS football field for 40 yds. I say do this under 7 sec or within a short distance such as a football field or straightaway of a track. Keep running for a healthier life! It will pay off if you keep with this method
Yep easy running 90% of the time!! I average 100km weeks for the past 12 months when not training for a marathon however I do ramp it up to another 60kms and 10% of that would be@race or hard effort tempo runs of 12+21km I have only raced 1 marathon (2;49)and half marathon(1;22)past year I'm doing my first hundred km Mountain trail should be interesting . I have been doing easy mileage with exception of a 3 mile tempo run once a week
Wow.... at around 36 minutes he starts talking about runnung slow the body will heal itself and its muscle imbalances... fuck thats awesome. I realized this some time ago and called it zombie walking. I was injured and even a light jog would hurt. When walking i noticed i kept straying... after awhile when the body gets beat and worn down you pick up on every little tension in your body. You start to correct yourself from there. It was very zen like and peaceful. It truly is a thing of just slowing it down even though you know you can go faster. Thats why i always got hurt when trying to do things that i once could before i ever got injured (a reoccurring injury).
I completely agree with the benefits of keeping your aerobic training below your aerobic threshold, but isn't there also a benefit of anaerobic interval training too?
Amazing! Thank you for confirming what I have intuitively known since I shifted to barefoot running six months ago. I go slow, have become much slimmer and feel so much healthier. best wishes
This is a good interview. People need to remember that just as you can cause yourself injury or death by sitting on a couch and doing nothing but eating your entire life you can accomplish the same by overdoing things in the exact opposite manner and exercising yourself to death. The diseases and conditions will differ but the result is the same which is damage to your health or even death.
I'm 63 with mild aortic stenosis and actually my pace is about 8 or little less minutes per kilometer and works very well. Nasal breathing without fatigue. Comfortable and no pain.
Have not heard any mention of the Heart Rate Reserve method which takes resting heart rate and maximal heart rates to derive a personalized training zone approach.
Chee i think you to address some of the other factors affecting your development like stress, hrs of sleep etc, i live in the philippines, and have been training maf but in cycling, i have improved aerobic speed, from 24kph to 32kph cycling on the same course, it took me 8 months though ^_^
I agree with everyone who says that running at aerobic base level can't be all. Sure, if you just want to take it easy all the time, it can. But if you want to progress to achieve better times, it won't get you far. And it would be pretty boring, too.
What Maffetone and others are saying is that you can train to fuel your physical movement with fat burning. Even going anaerobic, as in sprinting and soccer and basketball, you can fuel some of that activity with fat burning. See Natural Born Heroes by McDougal. The LA Lakers and other teams are dieting on fat rich foods and snacks, attempting to improve performance and health based on "getting off the sugar cycle." I don't see that Maffetone is espousing aerobic-only training. All competitive runners I have interviewed, who run at competitive times (especially world class times), do interval training and weight training. Best, Sifu Slim, author of The Aging Athlete.
Sifu Slim wellness Thanks for your answer. Yes, it is a respectable position to build on fat burning. What I meant is that the MAF way of running implies that you always run at a slow aerobic pace, no matter when you run.
I find your content fantastic! I already saw a lot of videos that I found on the internet and I learned a lot form them. I have one question. I run for a few years now. Always within theory ‘no pain no gain’ …and almost killing myself. I got to run 10 km with an average of 5 minutes per km. Gradually my friends gave up but somehow I continued running. I found your videos about two months ago and I tried to run at the heart rate of 180-45 = 135 and I found it , what many others think, that it is too easy. I have difficulties running with the heartbeat less than 140. I am practically walking. I am very motivated and I would like to continue to run and get better. My question is, how many kilometres should I run in this pace, since I was running about 6 to 7 km with the heart beat 180? I would like to thank you in advance for your answer.
I'm absolutely not a specialist, but I read a lot, and watched a lot of YT videos. look at this one ( th-cam.com/video/Xz0VCzk7BZA/w-d-xo.html ) . I would say increase your mileage by 10% each week (if no fatigue) till you run weekly the number you want to race, or even more, but progressively ...
I've know of Maffetone since 1985, when I spent a week at running camp with Stu Mittleman. I've Googled him (Maffetone) to death, and outside of Mark Allen and Mittleman (both athletes who competed in (time-wise) ultra events, there is NO evidence of ANY world-class athletes using his method. I've been on letsrun.com since it existed, and no competitors at 10K who run in the high 20's/low 30's minute range have ever endorsed it (though there is a big emphasis on a lot of easy mileage, but in the typical Karvonnen 60-70% range.)
So, perhaps you can debate about world class athletes. How about the rest of us who make up 99.9% of all athletes. This method works, but I'm afraid it is much misunderstood.
Gary Bjorklund ran a 2:10:18 marathon in 1980. He told me that he had put in some 200 mile weeks, and the purpose was to get his body to learn how to burn fats. I had never heard this, but this does seem to fit in what Maffetone is saying.
If 220 - your age to find an HR max can be off by as much as 20 beats per minute for an individual, why should 180 - age be any more precise for literally everybody? He never says why his magic number is any better than any other magic number....this in addition to what I've said in my other comments. When Maffetone coaches a single athlete to a sub-2:10 marathon, or a sub-28:00 10,000, or a sub 13:30 5,000 using his methodology, I'll take him seriously. It's sheer arrogance to say "everyone on Earth is doing it wrong" (meaning world class athletes) but I have the golden ticket in my back pocket via my 180 - age. Additionally....Maffetone seems to view running as strictly a lung-heart activity. Running well/running fast requires a lot more than spending 'X' amount of time at 'X' heart rate.....he doesn't address anything in terms of form, flexibility, activating fast twitch muscle fibers, training to teach the body to buffer lactate via threshold running......he doesn't touch any of this. I'll repeat: his method is terrific if your ONLY goal is to be able to run really, really slow for a really, really long time....period. Regarding Gary Bjorklund....he came from a track background and was a world-class 10,000 runner, and competed in the 1976 Olympics....I "guarantee" he didn't jog 200 mile weeks at the efforts Maffetone demands. Nobody runs a 4:02 mile/13:32 5,000/2:10:20 marathon by jogging 200 mile weeks (which, in itself, is excessive--even runners who *have* training that much like the lateTom Fleming & Bill Rodgers have said that it probably didn't help them in any way other than to prove the *could* do it. The "sweet spot" for really fast marathoners is in the 120-150 miles per week range.)
All aspects of this approach need to be implemented, it has to be fully followed and understood to Work. Assuming you will be just running slow, and doing the same thing, only focusing on training means the MAF method is not fully followed.
I've been MAF running for a month now; (for me at 51 my MAF = 129). All is going well, with the following exception: around mile 2 I get a dull pain on my left lateral knee. The pain goes away completely when I stop running. Never had knee issues before. The odd thing is that when I run faster I have no knee pain. I'm wondering if this is at all common or if it's a result of bad running form when I slow down...
It would be very awesome if you would say how you deal with athletes that say I physically can't run that slow. I use to be a runner in that category and have known a few... what has become your approach with that issue?
I can’t find an answer to this either, Mechanically it’s just too hard for me(higher bpm) to run at a zone1. Z2 MAF rate is fine now after 2 years, so I’ve come to the conclusion I can only increase faster paced, to bring my z1 pace upto current z2 pace.
Everyone has different efficiency, biometrics, running paces extra. I can run 20 + miles no problem, if I go for a walk it beats me up, same as running very slow, I really struggle.
I lives in Asia and constantly run in temperature of 24 to 30 deg C. I have exclusively run below my Aerobic Threshold of 134 bpm ( I am 46) for 2 months and have absolutely no improvement, in fact my MAF showed that I have actually slow down. Do I need to make adjustment to the heart rate because of the heat here?
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results: Insanity ~~~ Albert Einstein. Do you do intervals? tempos? Long runs (25-30% of weekly mileage)? Do you some light weight training? Core? Do you eat, and hydrate yourself correctly? Whats your goal? Sounds like you've based yourself up well, set the foundation to be able to handle faster training on the track which will help with faster distance running without straining it.
Well I started the Maffletone recommendation and yes, to a certain extend was doing the same thing over and over again expecting improvement, and base on feedback from people whom has tried it, that was the expected result.On the positive side I can only assume that I already have a good base and therefore did not see any improvement after 2 months. I am now training for a coming marathon and is doing tempos, long run, easy runs so will know if I improve on my timing. My main question was really if training by heart rates works in tropical country as its difficult to keep heart rate low due to the heat.
I don't think this is a good way to go but you can definitely observe your heart rate when you do the workouts that you do so you have a clear idea of what sort of heart rate you get in specific training sessions. I go by the method of listening to your body. The most accurate is for Easy runs. These runs should be conversational. Whether one day you can talk to a running partner at 6:45 pace or whether another day you'll feel like conversational is 7:30 pace. Listen to your body. I talk to myself on easy runs sometimes just to make sure I'm not overdoing it. Tempos and such are kind of tricky so you'd be better off going by pace. especially if you can do a race indicator. But for long/easy runs Breathing is definitely rule of thumb=Conversational. its all interconnected to heart rate.
Why all this hype about slow running? I haven’t completely thought it through yet but it sort of sound “too simple”, Why don’t we all just walk - then we’d all be 3% fat body weight? First why do we want to burn “fat”? If to lose weight diet plays a bigger role than exercise. If to burn fat during a race ? 5k ? 10? , come on, your glycogen store take you quite a ways. Maybe for marathons and ultra? I’ve run 36 such races in last 4 years - it’s truly about pacing, hydrating, fueling (with sugar if you are concerned about your time/ fat burning slows you down , that’s why the proposition to run slow) and many other factors. Some like to do a “long” run in their weekly training plan, of course it’s a “slow” run - all long runs (marathons) are slower than short runs (sprints). I have listened to a lot of various speakers \ coaches/ booksellers and some of what they say makes sense and I have found useful, some not so much. I will say the guy I think has it closest to right is Sage Canaday. Re: sugar. I avoid refined sugar as much as possible on daily basis, most coming from fruit, but you must maintain a healthy blood sugar level at all times, hyperglycemia can be very dangerous. Which begs the question if we’re going to check everything from HR to cadence why are we not checking our blood sugar? I do during training - very revealing and has help me develop fueling plan tailored to the way MY body metabolism works. Wow this got waaay too long 🤪
I think similar to yourself. I think though that the slow run generally gets the heartrate high enough that it's an exertion on the body, but low enough that it's not going to stress the body into changing behaviours, whereas walking doesn't get the heartrate high enough to reach a zone where it requires a lot of energy.
Blood sugar will be maintained by a variety of mechanisms - release of glucose by the liver is the foremost of these either by hydrolysis of liver glycogen or by gluconeogenesis. In a normal, fed individual, the concentration of blood glucose is about 5.5 mM; after a week of starvation the blood glucose will still be 3.5 mM or so. Organs which can will adapt to do without it - using ketone bodies or fat in preference.
I think his system falls apart for older runners. I am 70 and running at 110-115 is definitely too low. I prefer using the concept that your aerobic threshold is LTHR-30. Here it is not one size fits all.
Take two 25 year-olds......both with the same exact criteria regarding history of training, injuries, illness. One has a resting HR of 46 and a max HR of 204.....the other one has a resting HR of 63 and max HR of 182. This is real world.....Now tell me.....how the hell does 180 - age (and the do-dad adds/subtracts) make any more sense that 220-age for these two very different 25 year-olds with the same criteria but VERY different HR numbers???? I call BS. He presents his stuff as the Golden Ticket like in Willy Wonka, but apart from triathlete Mark Allen & ultra runner Stu Mittleman, he has not coached ANY elite runners with this method. It might be fine for health....it might be fine if you want to run really, really, really slow for 200 miles.....but for ATHLETIC fitness, to BE GOOD at running...it's BS.
Steve Starr Jesus Steve you don't like this concept at all haha. There's to many people doing to much high end training that look like shit and are always sick. If nothing else it slows down the average middle age person who's carrying a bit to much weight already and out pounding the pads 3 nights a week sweating buckets and barely able to breath thinking there getting fitter and healthier
One more time: If the very arbitrary "220 - your age" to find an HR max can be off by as much as 20 beats per minute for an individual, why should 180 - age be any more precise for LITERALLY EVERYBODY? He never says why his magic number is any better than any other magic number. "180 - age" is just as arbitrary as "220 - age".
I have my own method. It incorporates both of the previous methods into one so personally I think its the best of both worlds. So what I do is.... 1000 / 2 - 280 - 40 - age. It seems to work for me !
I am very interesting in MAF and have been training at this level for a little over a month. My only question is how is one able to run races at paces they never train at? My MAF heart rate is 145 and depending on conditions such as weather and where I am training whether it be on the treadmill during the summer or trails I can run roughly 10:30 - 11:30 min miles. However, during a race I am not going to want to run that slow especially for half and full marathons. Therefore how can I accustom my body to handle faster paces for these distances?
That question is why I looked up this video. Im 35 and run 5-10Ks at 7:10-30 pace but to keep my HR at 145 I run from 10-11:30 depending on conditions. How am I going to continue running races at that pace if I cant run @ anaerobic levels. Im reading Primal Endurance based on the MAF idea. 2 months @ MAF HR, 1 month anaerobic training, 1 month complete rest.
If you become "fully trained up" (this would require a little explanation) using the Maffetone method you would find that your 5K pace would be approximately 75 seconds faster than your MAF pace. I am 58, train at a HR of 127 and can run 8:00 at that HR. My 5K pace is about 6:45. I just ran a 5 mile race this morning without having done any kind of tempo type runs for over a year and ran at a 6:50 pace. I almost never run faster than 8:00 in training. The method works, but it takes time and lots of miles.
I believe communicators that use their mother tongue should be more considerate with the audience and limit they “hums”, “ah”, “umm”, because is truly annoying. I have all his books and I appreciate his advice but hearing him on podcast is, although interesting, tiring...
You may eventually jog at the same HR, and maybe even run eventually. Work on extra jogs and tack on extra walking, especially up hills or with extra weight.
I’ve been applying this method since January. I like to run ultras. Training like this makes everything so much easier and more pleasurable. I now run almost every day. Never get injured. No aches. No pain. Weekly mileage is twice what it used to be. My Garmin watch says my VO2 max keeps increasing but I’m not even doing intervals! Can’t wait to run my next ultra, maybe in the fall, Covid-situation permitting.
Unreal! Amazing how running slow can make you so FAST!
This is a great training tool. Especially because ones hr can vary from run to run. for example - on some days I can run a 10min/mile @ 1 incline at 135-140bpm (I’m 45 years). At others it’s a 10:30min/mile to get that hr. I’ve noticed that when I’m running fasted he hr is higher for the same pace. This is great feedback - so, basically i can vary my training by hr rather than speed. The advantage is I can basically do 2x the weekly distance without getting injured - which means that by race day I’ve essentially done twice the training....awesome. Also, this definitely helps with increasing speed - because it gives you that aerobic base and makes it easier to increase difficulty. My rule of thumb is 80% MAT; 20% anaerobic training. I’m currently running about 36-48 miles/week, training 6 days. Haven’t had an injury in 3 years. Thanks Phil - this is a great strategy!!! You can build aerobic training volume without wearing out my joints.
I am a huge fan of Dr. maffetone and I’m also a fan of chiropractic medicine. Dr. Maffetone has many degrees and accomplishments and it should be noted that he is a Doctor of Chiropractic, not an MD. That’s a compliment.
It's a fine model for triathlon training if you're 20 or even 30 years old and using a 155 HR. It's slowing you down to a healthy 155 on easy days. You should be there on these days. A little too scientized vs the past, when they primarily use feel and HR was merely a check for E pace every now and again. Further when you're 50 and trying to train in the 120s HR all the time, runners stagnate. HIT works because it shoots your HR into the 180s, 190s, or 200s. Once a week is good enough for HIT though. The "age" aspect of the formula is, of course, unscientific, so too much scientizing can be worse than useless for many people. Run easy pace easy. Easy by feel.
How he mentions when training like this, at the end of the run, you should feel like you could do it again, MAN so true! I’ve been running like this for just a week now and man! The huge decrease in fatigue! Incredible recovery! And aches and pains gone! And at the end of these 10, 11, 12 mile runs, I finish and I’m just like wow, let’s go again😂also I’m sleeping better and dropping weight🤩☺️
Thank you. Run in low gear. Master the lower gears. If you're healthy it's a state of mind also.
Agree! Thanks, @layndretti13!
I understand what is being said but I also understand how difficult this would be. I am 55 and just qualified for the Boston Marathon after training for 2 years. I would never have been able to run at the qualifying time if all my training would have been under a HR of 180-age = 125bpm. My pace at this HR is good for a recovery run but it would be about 90 sec per mile too slow for a good marathon. Maybe what he is saying is that if I stuck to this training method that I would eventually get down to the quality pace.
Building an aerobic base takes time. If you stick with the maffetone method over a period of time, the results will be great!
Start the vid @23:00. He talks about how people start with this method of aerobic heart based training.
***** I tried to be strict with this on my Saturday run this week. I kept my heart rate between 127 and 130 for over 2 hours. I can definitely see the benefit of this in the long run and easy run days. Do you think we can still allow a little speed work and threshold pace work during the week?
Speed work can be incorporated. I like to do strides where you focus on short bursts of proper running form on a track or HS football field for 40 yds. I say do this under 7 sec or within a short distance such as a football field or straightaway of a track. Keep running for a healthier life! It will pay off if you keep with this method
Training alot at aerobic zone is nothing new in sports for base training.
Yep easy running 90% of the time!! I average 100km weeks for the past 12 months when not training for a marathon however I do ramp it up to another 60kms and 10% of that would be@race or hard effort tempo runs of 12+21km
I have only raced 1 marathon (2;49)and half marathon(1;22)past year
I'm doing my first hundred km Mountain trail should be interesting . I have been doing easy mileage with exception of a 3 mile tempo run once a week
Wow.... at around 36 minutes he starts talking about runnung slow the body will heal itself and its muscle imbalances... fuck thats awesome. I realized this some time ago and called it zombie walking. I was injured and even a light jog would hurt. When walking i noticed i kept straying... after awhile when the body gets beat and worn down you pick up on every little tension in your body. You start to correct yourself from there. It was very zen like and peaceful. It truly is a thing of just slowing it down even though you know you can go faster. Thats why i always got hurt when trying to do things that i once could before i ever got injured (a reoccurring injury).
I completely agree with the benefits of keeping your aerobic training below your aerobic threshold, but isn't there also a benefit of anaerobic interval training too?
+Brian Sallee Yes but as far as I understand, you should build a good aerobic base before doing any anaerobic interval training
Amazing! Thank you for confirming what I have intuitively known since I shifted to barefoot running six months ago. I go slow, have become much slimmer and feel so much healthier.
best wishes
Staffan Svahn also check out Patrick McKeown and the Oxygen Advantage.
This is a good interview. People need to remember that just as you can cause yourself injury or death by sitting on a couch and doing nothing but eating your entire life you can accomplish the same by overdoing things in the exact opposite manner and exercising yourself to death. The diseases and conditions will differ but the result is the same which is damage to your health or even death.
I'm 63 with mild aortic stenosis and actually my pace is about 8 or little less minutes per kilometer and works very well. Nasal breathing without fatigue. Comfortable and no pain.
Have not heard any mention of the Heart Rate Reserve method which takes resting heart rate and maximal heart rates to derive a personalized training zone approach.
That's a good approach as well! Thanks, Mike.
Chee i think you to address some of the other factors affecting your development like stress, hrs of sleep etc, i live in the philippines, and have been training maf but in cycling, i have improved aerobic speed, from 24kph to 32kph cycling on the same course, it took me 8 months though ^_^
Interesting interview and topic. It definitely makes sense, and I will follow the suggestions for the upcoming months, maybe years.
I agree with everyone who says that running at aerobic base level can't be all. Sure, if you just want to take it easy all the time, it can. But if you want to progress to achieve better times, it won't get you far. And it would be pretty boring, too.
What Maffetone and others are saying is that you can train to fuel your
physical movement with fat burning. Even going anaerobic, as in
sprinting and soccer and basketball, you can fuel some of that activity
with fat burning. See Natural Born Heroes by McDougal. The LA Lakers and
other teams are dieting on fat rich foods and snacks, attempting to
improve performance and health based on "getting off the sugar cycle."
I don't see that Maffetone is espousing aerobic-only training. All competitive runners I have interviewed, who run at competitive times (especially world class times), do interval training and weight training.
Best,
Sifu Slim, author of The Aging Athlete.
Sifu Slim wellness Thanks for your answer. Yes, it is a respectable position to build on fat burning. What I meant is that the MAF way of running implies that you always run at a slow aerobic pace, no matter when you run.
@@axlrosea675 Can run down a slight slope and keep the mafetone limit while running faster
Great perspective. Thanks for continuing to share these great interviews!
So glad Pete Townshend is a run coach now.
this video seems to age very well. i enjoyed it very much. ty.
also i saw that my maffetone has lost lots of fat since this.
Sadly I fall into the Fit category instead of healthy. I am still fighting injuries even though I can run sub 5 for 1mi.
best advice ever!
Shots every time he says "umm"
Right. Don't know if I can watch it all...
thanks! I really enjoyed this one.
I find your content fantastic! I already saw a lot of videos that I found on the internet and I learned a lot form them. I have one question. I run for a few years now. Always within theory ‘no pain no gain’ …and almost killing myself. I got to run 10 km with an average of 5 minutes per km. Gradually my friends gave up but somehow I continued running. I found your videos about two months ago and I tried to run at the heart rate of 180-45 = 135 and I found it , what many others think, that it is too easy. I have difficulties running with the heartbeat less than 140. I am practically walking. I am very motivated and I would like to continue to run and get better. My question is, how many kilometres should I run in this pace, since I was running about 6 to 7 km with the heart beat 180? I would like to thank you in advance for your answer.
I'm absolutely not a specialist, but I read a lot, and watched a lot of YT videos. look at this one ( th-cam.com/video/Xz0VCzk7BZA/w-d-xo.html ) . I would say increase your mileage by 10% each week (if no fatigue) till you run weekly the number you want to race, or even more, but progressively ...
I've know of Maffetone since 1985, when I spent a week at running camp with Stu Mittleman. I've Googled him (Maffetone) to death, and outside of Mark Allen and Mittleman (both athletes who competed in (time-wise) ultra events, there is NO evidence of ANY world-class athletes using his method. I've been on letsrun.com since it existed, and no competitors at 10K who run in the high 20's/low 30's minute range have ever endorsed it (though there is a big emphasis on a lot of easy mileage, but in the typical Karvonnen 60-70% range.)
So, perhaps you can debate about world class athletes. How about the rest of us who make up 99.9% of all athletes. This method works, but I'm afraid it is much misunderstood.
Gary Bjorklund ran a 2:10:18 marathon in 1980. He told me that he had put in some 200 mile weeks, and the purpose was to get his body to learn how to burn fats. I had never heard this, but this does seem to fit in what Maffetone is saying.
If 220 - your age to find an HR max can be off by as much as 20 beats per minute for an individual, why should 180 - age be any more precise for literally everybody? He never says why his magic number is any better than any other magic number....this in addition to what I've said in my other comments. When Maffetone coaches a single athlete to a sub-2:10 marathon, or a sub-28:00 10,000, or a sub 13:30 5,000 using his methodology, I'll take him seriously. It's sheer arrogance to say "everyone on Earth is doing it wrong" (meaning world class athletes) but I have the golden ticket in my back pocket via my 180 - age. Additionally....Maffetone seems to view running as strictly a lung-heart activity. Running well/running fast requires a lot more than spending 'X' amount of time at 'X' heart rate.....he doesn't address anything in terms of form, flexibility, activating fast twitch muscle fibers, training to teach the body to buffer lactate via threshold running......he doesn't touch any of this. I'll repeat: his method is terrific if your ONLY goal is to be able to run really, really slow for a really, really long time....period. Regarding Gary Bjorklund....he came from a track background and was a world-class 10,000 runner, and competed in the 1976 Olympics....I "guarantee" he didn't jog 200 mile weeks at the efforts Maffetone demands. Nobody runs a 4:02 mile/13:32 5,000/2:10:20 marathon by jogging 200 mile weeks (which, in itself, is excessive--even runners who *have* training that much like the lateTom Fleming & Bill Rodgers have said that it probably didn't help them in any way other than to prove the *could* do it. The "sweet spot" for really fast marathoners is in the 120-150 miles per week range.)
do you have data about kipchoge HR when training?
All aspects of this approach need to be implemented, it has to be fully followed and understood to Work. Assuming you will be just running slow, and doing the same thing, only focusing on training means the MAF method is not fully followed.
What does this imply? Run slow in the long runs but run fast in the HIT sessions? No Marathon race tempo training?? Or general only run slow??
I've been MAF running for a month now; (for me at 51 my MAF = 129). All is going well, with the following exception: around mile 2 I get a dull pain on my left lateral knee. The pain goes away completely when I stop running. Never had knee issues before. The odd thing is that when I run faster I have no knee pain. I'm wondering if this is at all common or if it's a result of bad running form when I slow down...
Are you suppose to stop running when you go past your target heartrate ?
You can either slow your running down at that point, or walk for a little while until you're below the target rate again.
It would be very awesome if you would say how you deal with athletes that say I physically can't run that slow. I use to be a runner in that category and have known a few... what has become your approach with that issue?
I can’t find an answer to this either, Mechanically it’s just too hard for me(higher bpm) to run at a zone1. Z2 MAF rate is fine now after 2 years, so I’ve come to the conclusion I can only increase faster paced, to bring my z1 pace upto current z2 pace.
I saw someone run/jog while pretending to skip rope. Slow but mechanically "running" as in both feet momentarily off the ground
I have an inverse heart rate when running slowly heart-rate is high but running faster pace heart-rate decrease
Everyone has different efficiency, biometrics, running paces extra. I can run 20 + miles no problem, if I go for a walk it beats me up, same as running very slow, I really struggle.
phill, you are my idol!!!! how the 180 number came up to your mind that was really funny! hahaha, thanks for helping our running community
He's the man! 😎
Dá para usar o parafuso sem pescoço e apertar sem precisar furar 2x. E olha que nem sou marceneiro.
I lives in Asia and constantly run in temperature of 24 to 30 deg C. I have exclusively run below my Aerobic Threshold of 134 bpm ( I am 46) for 2 months and have absolutely no improvement, in fact my MAF showed that I have actually slow down. Do I need to make adjustment to the heart rate because of the heat here?
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results: Insanity ~~~ Albert Einstein. Do you do intervals? tempos? Long runs (25-30% of weekly mileage)? Do you some light weight training? Core? Do you eat, and hydrate yourself correctly? Whats your goal? Sounds like you've based yourself up well, set the foundation to be able to handle faster training on the track which will help with faster distance running without straining it.
Well I started the Maffletone recommendation and yes, to a certain extend was doing the same thing over and over again expecting improvement, and base on feedback from people whom has tried it, that was the expected result.On the positive side I can only assume that I already have a good base and therefore did not see any improvement after 2 months. I am now training for a coming marathon and is doing tempos, long run, easy runs so will know if I improve on my timing. My main question was really if training by heart rates works in tropical country as its difficult to keep heart rate low due to the heat.
I don't think this is a good way to go but you can definitely observe your heart rate when you do the workouts that you do so you have a clear idea of what sort of heart rate you get in specific training sessions. I go by the method of listening to your body. The most accurate is for Easy runs. These runs should be conversational. Whether one day you can talk to a running partner at 6:45 pace or whether another day you'll feel like conversational is 7:30 pace. Listen to your body. I talk to myself on easy runs sometimes just to make sure I'm not overdoing it. Tempos and such are kind of tricky so you'd be better off going by pace. especially if you can do a race indicator. But for long/easy runs Breathing is definitely rule of thumb=Conversational. its all interconnected to heart rate.
@@midwood2010 you did a great job at completely missing OP's point. Congrats!
Why all this hype about slow running? I haven’t completely thought it through yet but it sort of sound “too simple”,
Why don’t we all just walk - then we’d all be 3% fat body weight? First why do we want to burn “fat”? If to lose weight diet plays a bigger role than exercise. If to burn fat during a race ? 5k ? 10? , come on, your glycogen store take you quite a ways. Maybe for marathons and ultra? I’ve run 36 such races in last 4 years - it’s truly about pacing, hydrating, fueling (with sugar if you are concerned about your time/ fat burning slows you down , that’s why the proposition to run slow) and many other factors. Some like to do a “long” run in their weekly training plan, of course it’s a “slow” run - all long runs (marathons) are slower than short runs (sprints). I have listened to a lot of various speakers \ coaches/ booksellers and some of what they say makes sense and I have found useful, some not so much. I will say the guy I think has it closest to right is Sage Canaday.
Re: sugar. I avoid refined sugar as much as possible on daily basis, most coming from fruit, but you must maintain a healthy blood sugar level at all times, hyperglycemia can be very dangerous. Which begs the question if we’re going to check everything from HR to cadence why are we not checking our blood sugar? I do during training - very revealing and has help me develop fueling plan tailored to the way MY body metabolism works. Wow this got waaay too long 🤪
I think similar to yourself. I think though that the slow run generally gets the heartrate high enough that it's an exertion on the body, but low enough that it's not going to stress the body into changing behaviours, whereas walking doesn't get the heartrate high enough to reach a zone where it requires a lot of energy.
Blood sugar will be maintained by a variety of mechanisms - release of glucose by the liver is the foremost of these either by hydrolysis of liver glycogen or by gluconeogenesis. In a normal, fed individual, the concentration of blood glucose is about 5.5 mM; after a week of starvation the blood glucose will still be 3.5 mM or so. Organs which can will adapt to do without it - using ketone bodies or fat in preference.
I think his system falls apart for older runners. I am 70 and running at 110-115 is definitely too low. I prefer using the concept that your aerobic threshold is LTHR-30. Here it is not one size fits all.
Maffetone says you can add an additional 5 beats when you're over 65. You would be safe to run at closer to 120.
Take two 25 year-olds......both with the same exact criteria regarding history of training, injuries, illness. One has a resting HR of 46 and a max HR of 204.....the other one has a resting HR of 63 and max HR of 182. This is real world.....Now tell me.....how the hell does 180 - age (and the do-dad adds/subtracts) make any more sense that 220-age for these two very different 25 year-olds with the same criteria but VERY different HR numbers???? I call BS. He presents his stuff as the Golden Ticket like in Willy Wonka, but apart from triathlete Mark Allen & ultra runner Stu Mittleman, he has not coached ANY elite runners with this method. It might be fine for health....it might be fine if you want to run really, really, really slow for 200 miles.....but for ATHLETIC fitness, to BE GOOD at running...it's BS.
Steve Starr Jesus Steve you don't like this concept at all haha. There's to many people doing to much high end training that look like shit and are always sick. If nothing else it slows down the average middle age person who's carrying a bit to much weight already and out pounding the pads 3 nights a week sweating buckets and barely able to breath thinking there getting fitter and healthier
One more time: If the very arbitrary "220 - your age" to find an HR max can be off by as much as 20 beats per minute for an individual, why should 180 - age be any more precise for LITERALLY EVERYBODY? He never says why his magic number is any better than any other magic number. "180 - age" is just as arbitrary as "220 - age".
I have my own method. It incorporates both of the previous methods into one so personally I think its the best of both worlds. So what I do is.... 1000 / 2 - 280 - 40 - age. It seems to work for me !
I am very interesting in MAF and have been training at this level for a little over a month. My only question is how is one able to run races at paces they never train at? My MAF heart rate is 145 and depending on conditions such as weather and where I am training whether it be on the treadmill during the summer or trails I can run roughly 10:30 - 11:30 min miles. However, during a race I am not going to want to run that slow especially for half and full marathons. Therefore how can I accustom my body to handle faster paces for these distances?
That question is why I looked up this video. Im 35 and run 5-10Ks at 7:10-30 pace but to keep my HR at 145 I run from 10-11:30 depending on conditions. How am I going to continue running races at that pace if I cant run @ anaerobic levels. Im reading Primal Endurance based on the MAF idea. 2 months @ MAF HR, 1 month anaerobic training, 1 month complete rest.
If you become "fully trained up" (this would require a little explanation) using the Maffetone method you would find that your 5K pace would be approximately 75 seconds faster than your MAF pace. I am 58, train at a HR of 127 and can run 8:00 at that HR. My 5K pace is about 6:45. I just ran a 5 mile race this morning without having done any kind of tempo type runs for over a year and ran at a 6:50 pace. I almost never run faster than 8:00 in training. The method works, but it takes time and lots of miles.
God bless you sir. Phil is a gift of God to humanity.
I believe communicators that use their mother tongue should be more considerate with the audience and limit they “hums”, “ah”, “umm”, because is truly annoying. I have all his books and I appreciate his advice but hearing him on podcast is, although interesting, tiring...
long distance like 1/4 mile
hehe
💯
180-50=130
130-10(be conservative)=120.
That's walking pace. How will that help me in a race?
You may eventually jog at the same HR, and maybe even run eventually. Work on extra jogs and tack on extra walking, especially up hills or with extra weight.
Try cycling.
Lol forgot people in other countries can't cycle and the car drivers there try to kill them.
A bit painful to go through the entire video. An edited video with just relevant information will spare the agony.