Dear Peter, a conversation recorded during the zone 2 exercise (if haven't yet), would be a great visual example how does it look, sound and feel like! Thanks a lot, Vlad
I bought a lactate meter and have used it. I've found a set heart rate number doesn't work that well for me because it's too variable from day to day, depending on how tired/stressed/recouperated the body is. Some days I can get my heart rate up to 135 bpm and lactate stays at 1.5. Other days when my body is struggling it takes a lot more effort and my lactate can be over 2.5 at 135 bpm. I find I can find Zone 2 better by pure feel than a hard or fast heart rate number. Once you've conditioned yourself well enough, you can feel when you're in the zone 2. Ive found a useful tool is a metronome app on my phone that I can hear in the background with music/podcasts/audiobooks. My body just kinda naturally synchronizes exertion to the pace of the tempo. I adjust the tempo up or down based on how my body feels that particular day. Once you feel like you've hit the right pace/tempo and you're in Zone 2, just keep it running in the background and the body maintains a pretty steady state of exertion.
I notice this, and Peter has referred to it. People want to measure everything and use formulae/algorithms, but informed subjectivity is where it's at. My calculated Zone 2 (70-80% of max HR) is in the 120s. And on a good day, I really feel good there - right on that line of taking pride in my performance without pushing myself too hard. I want to keep going, even beyond an hour. But some days, it's just too much work and I tend to hover around 114-117. The amount of sleep the night before seems to be the biggest X factor.
Out of interest, how long does it take you to get to 135bpm? I'm finding it a struggle sometimes as much as 15mins walking on a 6 degree incline at a fast pace, but some days it takes ages to get my heart rate into the zone.
*Note* : Inigo's Zone 2 is not the same as Zone 2 in other models (e.g. 60-70% of MaxHR). What your Garmin tells you to be Zone 2 is most likely (high) Zone 1 in Inigo's model. His Zone 2 is rather a lactate level driven number, than an FTP/MaxHR driven number. Two riders with the same MaxHR and FTP but different lactate profiles will have different Zone 2s in Inigo's model. And "Zone 2" is most likely a misnomer as he never refers to it as a range, but rather as a number (watt/bpm) to aim for. Indeed, that number can vary based on your current level of fatigue/stress, but it is still a number you aim to hit rather than an actual "zone" within which you can go up and down. In reality, since most of us can't afford regular testing of our lactate levels, Zone 2 becomes a range based on our attempts at riding in Zone 2 at different levels of fatigue. (e.g. at your most fresh you could ride at 140bpm without feeling out of breath, on another day when you feel really tired it might be 130pm; and your range becomes 130-140bpm).
Right, but here, I believe, Inigo is using naming conventions of the 5 zone's model. Zone 2 = 70 % of MaxHR or 2 mmol/L lactate. Otherwise Peter should have intervened.
@@GordonLF Yes... I think he might be having his tongue tied down by UAE and his other sponsors. Can't really give the basics for free when they pay you good $$$.
Would be great to have you, Peter, recorded while in zone 2 and talking. Since I have heard your voice for years and hours, a one minute video would give me a perfect idea of how it sounds and looks in zone 2. It would be helpful.
On the recent Rich Roll podcast, Peter goes into more detail on Zone 2. It's a test of your mitochondrial efficiency.. how fit you are determines how well you body can access the fat storage at increasing higher workloads. See the 1h42m mark. If I understand correctly, the amount of visceral fat you have in your muscle tissue and surrounding your organs, determines how metabolically fit you are.. and it can roughly approximated using static tests (uric acid level, blood pressure, insulin, trigs, hdl, a1c, waist circumference), as well as dynamic tests, most importantly OGTT and lactate testing. If you're fit, your zone-2 heart-rate can be 85 percent of you maximum heart-rate, otherwise it's 75 percent or lower. It's important to know what your true/actual maximum heart-rate is. If your resting lactate level is above 2 mmol/L, then this indicates you will start accumulating lactate upon *any* exertion, so additional lactate testing is not useful.. instead use the Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion. If it's below 1, then you'll need a stationary bike / treadmill , and a lactate meter (yellow Lactate Plus seems more accurate for high lactate, and the blue Lactate Pro seems better for low lactate levels) to find what your heart-rate should be to stay in zone 2 (outdoor activity should be reserved for zone 5). The idea is you measure lactate (via ear) every 7 minutes to find what your heart rate is to stay below 2. There is a series 'Limitless' that's coming out soon, that may show this in action!
"Yellow Lactate Plus seems more accurate for high lactate, and the blue Lactate Pro seems better for low lactate levels". Do you have any more information about this comparison? I am asking because I hardly find information about it. I have only found a study from 2010 so far.
Are those devices really accurate? I have bought a cheap Lactate test on Amazon. Tested in the evening 1 hour after dinner: 3.5 mmol/L to 5.5 mmol/L. Tested in the morning after 12 hours of fasting: 1.8 mmol/L.
4:32 Further to your comment about carrying on a conversation: I spend lots of Zone 2 time on a trainer, (60 to 90 minute sessions 3-4 times per week) but I am alone. With no one to talk to, I figure that if I can comfortably breath only through my nose, that I am staying within Zone 2 without "slipping" into zone 3. Any thoughts on this? I am 70 years old if that matters...
Respiration rate varies significantly between individuals at the same HR or lactate level and I wonder whether an ability to hold a conversation is of sufficient accuracy to act as a decent surrogate for holding lactate in Zone 2? Perhaps I’m thinking of individual extremes rather than the population level but it’s made me want to test! Thanks for this content Peter. The quality of questions and clarity of explanation is the best of its kind. Love it. 👏👏👏
I sure haven't used the 'conversation' threshold as my zone 2. If that were the case, my zone 2 would be up to a HR of 140 bpm or a bit higher and I am a fit 68 year old with resting heart rate of 55 or so. I can carry on pretty normal conversation probably into the low 140's. I would think with a max heartrate of about 190 bpm again at 68 years old, my zone 2 max is probably low 130's and not low 140's. I am almost never out of breath on the bike.
@@lukewalker1051 How fit is fit? Elite (professional) endurance athletes can have lactate a threshold of as high as 90% of max HR, so it's well possible your lactate threshold could be in the 140s at 68, if you've done a lifetime of endurance training.
I've thought about this too. I was having some asthma/chest infection issues and had to go get a lung function test, and my lungs ended up being approx 9 litres (so very large outlier lung volume). I generally have quite a low respiration rate on the bike and running, even if I come up into tempo or closer to threshold running and if i'm fit at the time I still feel like I can talk quite easily and breathe quite controlled, even though my actual effort is quite hard. Large lungs doesn't necessarily make you a better athlete (there are people twice as fit as me with much smaller lungs) and they are already generally oversized for the job they need to do but from my own experience I think it does seem to have an effect on how quickly you breathe at given intensities, so I think you're definitely right, using the conversation rule of thumb can't be applied as an equal measuring stick to everyone I don't think, some people will breathe slower/faster and therefore find it easier/harder to hold conversations for each given intensity. The 180 minus your age heart rate also doesn't work for everyone because of such a large variation in heart rate ranges/max heart rate. I think lab testing or HR formulas that incorporate resting/max etc are the better ways to really identify zone 2.
Funny, this is known to me now and talk to my dog when I don't want to wear my suunto watch and HR monitor. But, I pushed Z3 and 4 for way to many years thinking that was the thing to do.
At 64, not greatly conditioned but working on it, I find it difficult to keep my heartrate below 135 on 25 minute runs... I have to slow myself consciously... This is so hard to figure out, but I like the idea that I can feel my way through it although I will be getting a lactate meeter just cause I like gadgets... Both podcasts with Inigo are just so far above great, I think I have listened to them 4 times... Just love my subscription, the best money I have spent on my longevity journey ....
A machine on which you can eliminate work output variability is a common solution to your problem. Once you’re fit enough, you’ll be able to take your zone 2 training outside again.
Do you have a medical condition? If you maintain a steady pace every session, and constant 25 minute period, your heartrate will naturally lower every session. The body adapts that way rather quickly. So if it's near the middle or end that your heartrate keeps going up, and you have to slow down, take note of the time. You'll see that it (should) will take longer and longer before your heartrate goes above 135, until you've adapted and your heartrate never goes above that in 25 minutes. Then you might choose to add time, or add a tiny little bit of speed. The most important is to be regular and not miss sessions.
The problem with the talk test is you could do a series of really short sprints and be able to talk! Or you could go zone 3 for 2-3 minutes then back to zone 1 for 5 minutes etc.
Anyone familiar with the 'sing test'? Inability to sing normally or say a somewhat challenging verse well is now in zone 2. Ref Dr Rob Goode U of Toronto. In other words, a long sentence requires a breath somewhere in-between (i.e., huffing).
I was chatting away last night while doing 30 minutes on the indoor bike. Average HR 126 bpm, Max HR 133 bpm. 230 Watts average. Got a new VO2 max of 83.0 as well. Body weight just under 56 kg's. It was Zone 2. I train most of the time in that Zone. Rarely do I ramp things up. 80% intensity. I do two other things not usually mentioned. I ride an average cadence of 60 rpm and hydrate to a level where I weigh more coming off the trainer than I did getting on. In two hours, I'll drink 2 -3 litres. I've just turned 62 years old.
With 83 Vo2Max (at age 62!) you are in the same class of Lance Amstrong and Chris Froom (they had 84), but less then Indurain (88). Maybe check your measurement.
Oh!!! So basically we can use RPE and, as mentioned below by R.E. the "Talk Test" instead of shilling out money for a lactate test and the old RPE 2 that has been well-known and used for decades is good enough for most of us. I had to wonder after trying to listen to the full interview (gave up before this part) because all I was hearing about is some sort of Zone 2 that was measured by lactate tests in a lab, something I have zero interest in doing. More money saved on tests such as VO2 max which really show little meaning in actual performance. Note the confusion by many in the comments on how to estimate Zone 2 that this simple explanation would have mostly avoided to begin with.
Thanks for the detailed content you provide. Could you please elaborate on two questions that remain a bit unclear to me. 1. Will pedaling at Zone2 at a lower cadance with higher (heavier) resistance i.e. using slow twitch muscles use more fat storage for energy, vs pedaling at Zone2 at high cadence with lower (lighter) resistance using fast twitch muscles? 2. What is the minimal duration for the shortest recommended session, for getting optimal benefit for fat burning? Greetings from across the pond.
When I try to do a talk test when I believe I'm in zone 2 and heart rate steady, my heart rate goes up 5-6 bpm when I talk and lowers when I stop talking. Is this to be expected?
When I did my VO2max test with the mask on my face, they gave me an estimate of my lactate threshold and my zones based on my heartrate. That may also be a good starting point for people.
The physiology is better understood but can be confusing. In training I’m high school and college we used “the talk test” for the majority of our mileage. Simple, easy no Milli mole talk. If this is about geeking out on cycling, which it might be, then I apologize. If running getting a VO2 max test is a waste of money. If you have the money to spend you will be running when you can hold a conversation and be running between 60 and 70% of your max HR. Millimole precision is scope creep. Maybe not for world class cyclists. To everyone who wants to get in shake and live longer a mM of lactate discussion is mixing science with practical advice. It’s more interesting. But a healthier public asap will help all of us. Discussion of milliMoles doesn’t help us get there.
At 72, I remember this type of Aerobic Training, was called "LSD" "Long-Slow-Distance" Low intensity, Longer time, endurance training. Zone 2 just repackaged the same type of training!
Riding alone, talking to myself…. Looks pretty funny 😁. Following breathing pace. Riding alone not talking. When there is natural pause in between exhale and inhale, its in Z2, if Z2 is in this context from 5 zone system, not 3 zone system
Peter I use Kaatsu regularly and was wandering if you are walking on a treadmill in zone 2 does Kaatsu take you out of it because Kaatsu releases lactate. I am 71 and Kaatsu has made me gain muscle while exercising to failure and have strengthened my legs a lot. I couldn't do 5 squats without it hurting lol. I do over a hundred with Kaatsu bands on because without it I would have to go to 200 to get to failure. So if I don't go to failure and put Kaatsu on cycle mode and walk breathing thru nose and can carry on a conversation am I still in zone 2 ? Or should I just go without Kaatsu and when i get done put them on and try some sprints to close to failure?
I’m thoroughly confused by what is zone 2. As a percentage of max HR most seem to agree it’s 60-70% but that’s much lower than I can hold a conversation at (probably 7-10 bpm higher). What’s the answer?
Zone 2 isn't about HR specifically. Its a term used to describe the grade of effort (specific and unique to each person based on fitness level, age, genetics, etc) that allows them to use aerobic respiration for energy. A little biochemistry background is helpful to understand this. When you're exercising you need energy obviously...more than when you're at baseline. How our bodies go about "free-ing" this energy is really what zone 2 is trying to target. The most efficient way to get energy to contract our muscles to achieve this exercise is via beta oxidation (i.e. breaking down fat into ATP). ATP is the energy currency of our muscles. Beta-oxidation REQUIRES oxygen and the use of your mitochondria within your muscle cells. Depending on how fit you are, the concentration and quality of mitochondria within the muscle cells is rich or poor. If its rich, then you can process lots of fat and produce lots of ATP in a short period of time and supply the muscle with enough ATP to carry out the intensity of whatever its doing (e.g. running/cycling/rowing/elliptical/etc...usually something we'd consider "cardio"...this doesn't really apply to weightlifting). If you are working out at an intensity requiring more ATP than your mitochondrial infrastructure can sustain by burning fat using oxygen, then it begins supplementing with anaerobic means via glucose being used to make ATP (faster, but much less efficient). This pathway also creates lactic acid as a byproduct and your muscle and other organs (blood/liver) have to then clear this lactic acid via multiple mechanisms. Zone 2 is where you are primarily using oxygen and fat to supply your muscles with energy and your blood lactate level remains low because you are not making much. Hope this helps.
My question is how many hours a week of zone 2 should a 62 yr old guy be doing? How long should a session be? We’re talking trainer riding. How about adding intervals of max power? Thank you.
In the 1960's and 70's the distance running community referred to their training method as LSD, long slow distance. How slow? Slow enough to carry on a conversation. As the gentleman said "sounds old school, but it works very well", yes it does. In the United states, marathon runners are not running any faster than the runners of the 70's, factoring in the advantage of the super shoes.
Trying to find this zone 2 expressed as a % of max heart rate. It’s a fricken long and arduous search. Wished Mr Attia could have asked him that simple question.
@@WattsCastle Isn't 70-80% Zone 3 by nearly all other definitions including Polar not Zone 2? 80% is Lactate Threshold correct? If those are the ranges they are talking about then what they say makes sense at 130-150HR for most people.
And trains zone 2 to avoid defeat. The climbs can wait lest he reaches zone 3 , dehydration turns yellow his pee. So post ride they go to Starbucks they meet.
Great conversation! How good is „nose breathing“ in determining you are in Z2? I personally find that the intensity I begin to struggle to breath through my nose corresponds to the upper end of Z2 by the metrics outlined in the deep dive conversation.
Spot on 👍🏻 That’s also what Inigo San Millan confirms. I’m in zone 2 around heart rate 160-170 bpm. I have several running videos on my TH-cam channel on this matter, feel free to take a look (all have English subtitles).
This is sort of useful, but I don't want to rely on talking to myself while running in public to know if I'm in zone 2. I love to chat when I'm with someone, but as a dedicated runner that can't always be the case. As for lactate, I feel ridiculous pricking my finger every day while trying to enjoy jogging just to see if I'm recreational running correctly. Are HR zones really as dismissible as you make them sound? I can't even usually be right by keeping an eye on heart rate?
Why all of this worry about a “zone”? From decades all of athletes we learn to run easily by experience, if you’re all time watching the chronometer or talking to perceive your intensity you’ll bee confused. Just try and get easy, but not all times you’ll feel the same. There are says when all of us had felt tired no mater the intensity, others is easy and flowing. “Zone 2” is an artificial division to enhance some metabolic aspects, but you don’t want to be all time sticked to that: is really boring and not very productive. Sometimes you run a little faster, at same session or in other, sometimes slightly slower. This is natural in sport, trying to replace your perception with measurements leave the “mindfulness” of the easy runs or even the intensity runs. One can track the training and verify after, so at an average will be on your targeted intensity just by feedback but don’t do it in real time.
Hi, Great video, I love my Zone 2 training for long endurance rides, but just a quick question. I find that I get my most bang for my buck type of training in sweet spot training 3 days a week or under and overs. what's your thoughts on this and how would you put that into a program over a 8-12 hr cycling week, 3-4 hr strength week, 3 hr swim week, minimal running as I hate it lol
Hi Karl, theres a very simple way of optimising time in z2 and its the 80/20 rule. Take the total time you have available in a week in minutes.. divide by 100.. then multiply by 80 to get the optimal time (in a week) in z2... then the remainder (20%) is your time in sweetspot or Vo2 max. Dont underestimate the incredible value of z2 training.
What about halfway through the workout you get that “second wind”, and the target heart rate for 2nd half feels like a less strenuous RPE…do you increase intensity or maintain the bpm for the entirety?
What's faster, practical and realistic for an amateur competitive rider, a lactate lab test or a good HRM? It seems to me this "new" approach is to confirm by a lactate measurement that you are indeed training on zone 2 at 60%-70% BPM. That's assuming your MHR was measured by a field test, at full resting state, all-out effort, not by the 220-age formula. A high lactate reading after riding at 60%-70% will indicate you are overtraining and certainly your monitor will display it. Obviously, your personal zone 2 will vary depending on your level of fitness. I assume Tadej Pogacar's jersey.
That's more of a function of the temperature of the muscle. The hotter it gets the more it breaks down and the more burning you will feel. I'm not sure if its the temp that regulated the lactic acid or not, but the point is the temperature is a direct correlary/causal to how much it burns. You can actually regulate this by regulating the core body temp of your body via cooling the forhead, palms of hands, and the bottom of your feet. You will notice a big difference in performace if you cool off those areas which then pull the heat from your body compared to if you insulate those areas
@@weich1q2w thanks Austin that’s interesting info that I never was taught. Professors have always said it’s the lactic acid that causes the burn I’ll have to research more, thanks.
@Logan Lussier it's not the lactic acid itself, it's the accumulation of hydrogen ion as a waste product. You need the oxygen to decrease the amount of hydrogen but if you're higher than zone two you aren't bringing in enough oxygen to clear it.
Why even do "Zone 2"? It's not like our evolutionary adaptations would be of any value if you had to hit exactly this zone to adapt properly...just train hard with high effort resistance training, possibly swim/bike hard with HIIT interval, and you are covered.
What is the best indoor cycling platform for zone 2 training? I’m only familiar with zwift but not sure what else is out there that would work well for this type of training
What percent max heart rate are they calling Zone 2? My understanding is that Zone 2 only 60-70% max heart rate? I have more often heard that Zone 3 70-80% gives the most benefits to building the heart. Many including Attia seem to call Zone 3 Zone 2 around 70-80%
The worst thing is the different definitions of each zone. Some models incorporate lactate or resting heart rate. I’d rather we just use 60-70% for zone two for uniformity.
How this it work? Have you heard of warm up? Its by feel. Technique and movement efficiency matters more than vo2 max that will propel you through the water. People are thinking about it too much. Its the same analogy of bike gears.
I just ran 9 miles as slowly as I could and my Garmin watch says I spent 46% of the time in zone 5 (>157 bpm) , 35% in zone 4 (140-157 bpm), 14% in zone 3 (123-139 bpm), and 2% in zone 2 (105-122). I breathed in and out only through my nose without difficulty the entire run. What does that say about my fitness level? Does this mean I have to walk fast to train in zone 2? If I continue to train as I did today, will my zone 2 running time increase over time because I’ll become more fit?
Keep in mind Peter and his guest are talking about Lactate Zone 2. Those are different zones than those used on commercial exercise bikes, treadmills and your Garmin watch. So you need to determine your zone 2 by lactate measurements or by the method that he describes here.
180 minus your age is a good figure to get you in your zone 2. You might need to do a max heart rate test as you might have an unusually high max heart rate. Other factors can increase your HR like caffeine, hydration (higher if dehydrated) and weather you're still digesting food particularly carbs. It's best to do zone 2 first thing in the morning before breakfast or caffeine and avoid hills or walk the hills. If you stick to this you'll slowly see your HR come down over a few weeks. Try do it at least 4 times a week for a minimum of 60 minutes. Stick to it and trust the process.
@@robdoubleyou4918 No… it’s the same “Zone 2”. Lactate levels are just the most accurate way to calculate that number. Watches are not that great at calculating zones for individuals
@@EdwardsNH From “Q&A on Zone 2 with Peter Attia, M.D.” uploaded to TH-cam Apr. 21. 2021. 00:19:11 - Why do some wearables have different definitions on zones? Peter reads the viewer’s questions: “How is it 80% […of my HR max] my Garmin at Zone 2 is 60%. This is confusing”. Peter answers: “Ok..So heart rate monitors, when they tell you their zones, they’re probably not referring to the zones we’re talking about. Your Garmin might be working off the 7 zones that are cycling power zones - the FTP zones. And you’re absolutely right. An FTP zone 2 is well below a lactate zone 2. “ He goes on. For reference, I’ve found the following: Inigo San Milan’s and Peter’s Lactate Zones - uses 6 zones FTP Zones - uses 7 zones Garmin - uses 5 zones
Been struggling with HR drift for a few years…traditional medicine says get ablation and pace maker…it is very inconsistent where I can do a ride in zone 2 watts and HR can be in zone 2 or 4 and literally step jumps with most of them having no change in PE…despite feedback from Drs I feel like it is connected to my breathing/lung performance…whenever I do traditional stress tests or EKG my heart is healthy and fine as is my blood work…this issue only presented under exercise level stress…any ideas?
How could zone2 be extrapolated out to smaller muscle groups? In particular I'm thinking about rock climbing and the strain on the forearms. They aren't large enough to cause heart rate to increase, so how to gauge how hard they are working?
Perhaps try to perform a task that affects the forearms that you can do repeatedly for a reasonable amount of time? I don't think zone 2 aerobic training is transferable to rock climbing though.. or maybe it is, I don't know 😅
@@Permuh I think it is. The longer you can burn fat without transitioning to burning carbs means you can stay on the wall longer. With a extremely high max finger strength, we're talking a two arm hang of 2x bodyweight off of a 20mm edge for 10 seconds, there room for a very high zone 2 fat burning limit. The implication is that at submaximal climbing you don't dip into carb stores and save it for the maximal effort for the crux or the highly resistant section of a route.
I had my zone 2 clarified by, vo2 max in a lab setting. It gave me the zones in both heart rate and wattage. Funny thing if i am in my upper zone 2 in watt, then i am way beyond zone 2 in heartrate, if i am in my hr zone 2, i am below in wattage. Whats the take on this, should you maintain the zone 2 wattage, and wait for the physical adoptions to take place, ie the heart rate will in the calculated zone 2 with enough training?
I was using a Polar around the chest, that sent read-out to my iphone. Was doing around 115-120bpm according to some influencers ( 58yo). But it just stopped working, and tried changing the CR2025 battery. Fk It. I'm going to just go by the perceived exertion - i.e. the talk test and dump the hr monitor.
There’s a good proxy with respiration, but you need to be a nose breather during the day so to speak to use this effectively. If that’s your case (and it should be for everyone but unfortunately it’s not), then top of zone 2 will be the point where you can no longer run while ONLY breathing through your nose. Usually it’s easier to do this test on a treadmill, run for 2 minutes, let heart rate stabilize, still breathing through the nose? Increase speed, repeat, increase, till you find a speed where your nose breathing is no longer enough (eg. You sound like a wild hog 😂). Take note of HR at that point, that’s you cut-off between zone 2 and 3.
Can you combine zone 2, zone 5 and weightlifting in a single training session? I'm currently doing a 45 minute zone 2 warmup with a zone 5 finish. I'm then lifting weights for 45-60 minutes then doing another zone 5 interval sprint. This works out to be 180 minutes zone 2 + a Norwegian 4x4 every week, training 4 days. Does that work?
This make sense for endurance sports, but what about power endurance sports like rowing? I'm mostly in Zone 3-4 ( medium effort / steady state ). At this pace i can talk a little bit but wouldn't be able to hold a phone call ;) like Peter suggested here.
It’s all talk unless you can weigh & measure it. I wear a Garmin Instinct watch 24/7. On my early AM Ruck sessions I actively push into zone 2 on the low end of the range. For my age (60) it’s supposed to be (220 - 60 = 160 x .65) = 104. I push past 104 and remain there for the 30 mins I’m out there. You have to modulate your speed to keep it there. However, I find it better to do my 20 minute HIIT routine with Kettlebells where I’m reaching 80-90% of my HR max before the half hour ruck. The HIIT piece warms everything up and I can reach my target much faster otherwise I feel like I need to sprint at the start to even get into zone two. All this “perceived exertion” talk is fine if you have a good grasp of reality, but most people under -OR- over shoot it. You’ve got to get the tech in order to factor out the emotions. Hard numbers is where it’s at.
Hum, looks like whenever I do a Zone 2, just call my wife in for a heart to hear conversation. Or I can do the reading with the kids. That sounds like a good one.
It’s building a “cardio base”. Zone 2 is currently the best known way to do that (with one day at Zone 5). It makes a big difference is general health and aches and pains to have a strong cardio base. Plus, it has the added benefit of making you a LOT faster.
I think acidity destroys mitochondria. Also You will not get scars in Your heartmuscle. See these videos for starters: th-cam.com/video/m8lo5eEVAZI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ExerciseInstitute th-cam.com/video/MALsI0mJ09I/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TEDxTalks th-cam.com/video/Y6U728AZnV0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TEDxTalks I'm no expert, I´ve done my share of zone 3 bikerides. But now only once a week.
I 100% disagree. I’m in good shape and I can easily hold a conversation zone 3 maybe even zone 4. My friend is not in as good shape and he holds a conversation zone 3 and 4 no problem.
This is very inaccurate in my opinion, other sources says zone 2 is 60-70% of max hr, which too me is around 125. I can keep a strained conversation with a hr of at least 160 which is zone 4.
It shouldn't be a strained conversation, it should be easy and full sentences. I'm guessing you're around 55 years old? Have you done a max heart rate test when fully rested, fuelled, hydrated and raring to go?
@@richardmiddleton7770 Yes my hr max is 195, just do the calculation from my comment instead of being plain stupid, and you would know 55 is way off. Try again.
I did a 2.5hrs ride on Wahoo RGT last night, I didn't set out with a plan just wanted to complete this event, at the end my average HR was 136bpm, and my average power was 163w. So- My FTP is 255w according to my my last fitness test (Half Monty) and my Z2 is 121-150bpm.... So my HR Z2 was pretty much bang in the middle, and Strava says I was 93% in Z2 (5% in Z1 and 1% in Z3) according to HR, but according to power I was only 62% in Z2 (21% in Z1, 14% in Z3 and 3% in Z4).....so I got my power above the Z2 for a fair bit, but kept the HR mainly in Zone 2? My power at 163W average is 64% FTP so that's in range too (55-75% FTP)..... I think I can take it that I must have nailed the mid Z2 pretty well?? (Considering it was a 38km ride with 1250m climb, go in slow and watch for HR drift)
@@cracked229 not terrible but take your point it's not for everyone, but it's a good starting point, then should adjust for self afterwards. I think its also too vague for older athletes.
Lucy Barclay who finished second at Kona a few days ago uses one. It's in one video on her channel about the last workouts before her race. You can ask there, triathletes are tech nerds they'll know
Can we turn this into percentage of heart rate?? For instance, at the end of a 60 minute Zone 2 ride, my heart rate will creep over 80%, maybe even up to 83-84% of max heart rate. Is that too high??? Or is this going to be directly related to overall fitness and not cross over very well?
Having done several tests with lactate getting checked, 80% is likely to quite a bit too high. Especially if you already experience heart rate drift after 60 minutes (heart rate slowly going up, maintaining the same speed). You should much rather stay around 70-75% of max. HR.
If your HR is slowly creeping up over around 70% you're not really in zone 2. Also slowly dehydrating during the ride can slowly increase your HR as can eating anything high carb during the ride.
I ride alone so a conversational exertion metric isn't useful. After reading around all over, I've just decided to go with the HR [220-age x 70%-80%] method. And, when I'm tired and/or underslept, I trend towards the lower part of the range.
As a runner for over 50 years I wonder how we ever got to this point. We have made running into some scientific recipe that no one seems to understand according to the comments. You want to see zone 2 exercise? Go to a playground and watch the kids. They just do it naturally. Probably walking at a quick pace is as close to zone 2 as you can get, and stay. There are way too many problems with heart rate training. Drink an energy drink or a couple of cups of coffee and try to stay in zone 2. Mood and stress affect your heart rate. Just go have fun and don't worry so much.
All of this sounds logical but when you study the blue zones which represent the longest living healthiest humans on the planet I doubt any of them are doing 4 to 5 days zone 2 and 2 days of zone 5. Seems like this is to much wear and tear on the body.
I think the idea is that being physically active is good for you. I feel these people obsessing over specific details about being in these various zones are kind of missing the point. Lets say you go for a 3 hour hike with various flats and hills. Your heart rate is going to go up by quite a bit when you tackle the hills and be slightly above 100 BPM when you are on easier terrain. Your heart rate was elevated and remained so for hours at a time here, which is going to give you a lot of benefits.
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Dear Peter, a conversation recorded during the zone 2 exercise (if haven't yet), would be a great visual example how does it look, sound and feel like! Thanks a lot, Vlad
theres this guy - Matt choi, does some interviews while he's running. pretty neat idea
백문이불여일견
"This is what Zone 2 training looks like | Peter Attia" less than a 3-minute video.
I bought a lactate meter and have used it. I've found a set heart rate number doesn't work that well for me because it's too variable from day to day, depending on how tired/stressed/recouperated the body is. Some days I can get my heart rate up to 135 bpm and lactate stays at 1.5. Other days when my body is struggling it takes a lot more effort and my lactate can be over 2.5 at 135 bpm. I find I can find Zone 2 better by pure feel than a hard or fast heart rate number. Once you've conditioned yourself well enough, you can feel when you're in the zone 2. Ive found a useful tool is a metronome app on my phone that I can hear in the background with music/podcasts/audiobooks. My body just kinda naturally synchronizes exertion to the pace of the tempo. I adjust the tempo up or down based on how my body feels that particular day. Once you feel like you've hit the right pace/tempo and you're in Zone 2, just keep it running in the background and the body maintains a pretty steady state of exertion.
I notice this, and Peter has referred to it. People want to measure everything and use formulae/algorithms, but informed subjectivity is where it's at. My calculated Zone 2 (70-80% of max HR) is in the 120s. And on a good day, I really feel good there - right on that line of taking pride in my performance without pushing myself too hard. I want to keep going, even beyond an hour. But some days, it's just too much work and I tend to hover around 114-117. The amount of sleep the night before seems to be the biggest X factor.
@@aquamarine99911 Zone 2 is 60-70%
@@EdwardsNH But Peter and this other guy call it at 70-80%. In this very clip.
Actually, they say 70-80% a few minutes later in the conversation. But emphasize that it varies from individual to individual, from day to day.
Out of interest, how long does it take you to get to 135bpm? I'm finding it a struggle sometimes as much as 15mins walking on a 6 degree incline at a fast pace, but some days it takes ages to get my heart rate into the zone.
*Note* : Inigo's Zone 2 is not the same as Zone 2 in other models (e.g. 60-70% of MaxHR). What your Garmin tells you to be Zone 2 is most likely (high) Zone 1 in Inigo's model. His Zone 2 is rather a lactate level driven number, than an FTP/MaxHR driven number. Two riders with the same MaxHR and FTP but different lactate profiles will have different Zone 2s in Inigo's model.
And "Zone 2" is most likely a misnomer as he never refers to it as a range, but rather as a number (watt/bpm) to aim for. Indeed, that number can vary based on your current level of fatigue/stress, but it is still a number you aim to hit rather than an actual "zone" within which you can go up and down.
In reality, since most of us can't afford regular testing of our lactate levels, Zone 2 becomes a range based on our attempts at riding in Zone 2 at different levels of fatigue. (e.g. at your most fresh you could ride at 140bpm without feeling out of breath, on another day when you feel really tired it might be 130pm; and your range becomes 130-140bpm).
Right, but here, I believe, Inigo is using naming conventions of the 5 zone's model. Zone 2 = 70 % of MaxHR or 2 mmol/L lactate. Otherwise Peter should have intervened.
@@hubert1184 petty sure for someone reasonably fit it is about 80%. Heard Peter say this on multiply interviews. I changed my garmin levels to match.
Iñigo is not a good communicator. Confusing. Not even Attia can corral him.
@@GordonLF Yes... I think he might be having his tongue tied down by UAE and his other sponsors. Can't really give the basics for free when they pay you good $$$.
@@norbert4571 I was wondering about the UAE myself.
Would be great to have you, Peter, recorded while in zone 2 and talking. Since I have heard your voice for years and hours, a one minute video would give me a perfect idea of how it sounds and looks in zone 2. It would be helpful.
On the recent Rich Roll podcast, Peter goes into more detail on Zone 2. It's a test of your mitochondrial efficiency.. how fit you are determines how well you body can access the fat storage at increasing higher workloads. See the 1h42m mark.
If I understand correctly, the amount of visceral fat you have in your muscle tissue and surrounding your organs, determines how metabolically fit you are.. and it can roughly approximated using static tests (uric acid level, blood pressure, insulin, trigs, hdl, a1c, waist circumference), as well as dynamic tests, most importantly OGTT and lactate testing. If you're fit, your zone-2 heart-rate can be 85 percent of you maximum heart-rate, otherwise it's 75 percent or lower. It's important to know what your true/actual maximum heart-rate is.
If your resting lactate level is above 2 mmol/L, then this indicates you will start accumulating lactate upon *any* exertion, so additional lactate testing is not useful.. instead use the Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion. If it's below 1, then you'll need a stationary bike / treadmill , and a lactate meter (yellow Lactate Plus seems more accurate for high lactate, and the blue Lactate Pro seems better for low lactate levels) to find what your heart-rate should be to stay in zone 2 (outdoor activity should be reserved for zone 5). The idea is you measure lactate (via ear) every 7 minutes to find what your heart rate is to stay below 2.
There is a series 'Limitless' that's coming out soon, that may show this in action!
"Yellow Lactate Plus seems more accurate for high lactate, and the blue Lactate Pro seems better for low lactate levels". Do you have any more information about this comparison? I am asking because I hardly find information about it. I have only found a study from 2010 so far.
Are those devices really accurate? I have bought a cheap Lactate test on Amazon. Tested in the evening 1 hour after dinner: 3.5 mmol/L to 5.5 mmol/L. Tested in the morning after 12 hours of fasting: 1.8 mmol/L.
4:32 Further to your comment about carrying on a conversation: I spend lots of Zone 2 time on a trainer, (60 to 90 minute sessions 3-4 times per week) but I am alone. With no one to talk to, I figure that if I can comfortably breath only through my nose, that I am staying within Zone 2 without "slipping" into zone 3. Any thoughts on this? I am 70 years old if that matters...
This was one of the best interviews you have done!🙌🏽🙌🏽
Respiration rate varies significantly between individuals at the same HR or lactate level and I wonder whether an ability to hold a conversation is of sufficient accuracy to act as a decent surrogate for holding lactate in Zone 2? Perhaps I’m thinking of individual extremes rather than the population level but it’s made me want to test! Thanks for this content Peter. The quality of questions and clarity of explanation is the best of its kind. Love it. 👏👏👏
I sure haven't used the 'conversation' threshold as my zone 2. If that were the case, my zone 2 would be up to a HR of 140 bpm or a bit higher and I am a fit 68 year old with resting heart rate of 55 or so. I can carry on pretty normal conversation probably into the low 140's. I would think with a max heartrate of about 190 bpm again at 68 years old, my zone 2 max is probably low 130's and not low 140's. I am almost never out of breath on the bike.
@@lukewalker1051 How fit is fit? Elite (professional) endurance athletes can have lactate a threshold of as high as 90% of max HR, so it's well possible your lactate threshold could be in the 140s at 68, if you've done a lifetime of endurance training.
I've thought about this too. I was having some asthma/chest infection issues and had to go get a lung function test, and my lungs ended up being approx 9 litres (so very large outlier lung volume). I generally have quite a low respiration rate on the bike and running, even if I come up into tempo or closer to threshold running and if i'm fit at the time I still feel like I can talk quite easily and breathe quite controlled, even though my actual effort is quite hard. Large lungs doesn't necessarily make you a better athlete (there are people twice as fit as me with much smaller lungs) and they are already generally oversized for the job they need to do but from my own experience I think it does seem to have an effect on how quickly you breathe at given intensities, so I think you're definitely right, using the conversation rule of thumb can't be applied as an equal measuring stick to everyone I don't think, some people will breathe slower/faster and therefore find it easier/harder to hold conversations for each given intensity. The 180 minus your age heart rate also doesn't work for everyone because of such a large variation in heart rate ranges/max heart rate. I think lab testing or HR formulas that incorporate resting/max etc are the better ways to really identify zone 2.
@@lukewalker1051over 60 years old the max heart rate formulas have been proven wrong. You a fitter than the formula suggests.
my own rule, when i breath through my nose while running, i go easy enough (zone 2).
Yeap. Great way to gage it. I only use 3 zones. Got rid of 4 and 5 makes no sense to me. Zone 1 endurance, Zone 2 threshold, Zone 3 high output.
Funny, this is known to me now and talk to my dog when I don't want to wear my suunto watch and HR monitor. But, I pushed Z3 and 4 for way to many years thinking that was the thing to do.
At 64, not greatly conditioned but working on it, I find it difficult to keep my heartrate below 135 on 25 minute runs... I have to slow myself consciously... This is so hard to figure out, but I like the idea that I can feel my way through it although I will be getting a lactate meeter just cause I like gadgets... Both podcasts with Inigo are just so far above great, I think I have listened to them 4 times... Just love my subscription, the best money I have spent on my longevity journey ....
A machine on which you can eliminate work output variability is a common solution to your problem. Once you’re fit enough, you’ll be able to take your zone 2 training outside again.
Exactly as Brendan said. You shouldn't be running outside for zone 2
Do you have a medical condition? If you maintain a steady pace every session, and constant 25 minute period, your heartrate will naturally lower every session. The body adapts that way rather quickly. So if it's near the middle or end that your heartrate keeps going up, and you have to slow down, take note of the time. You'll see that it (should) will take longer and longer before your heartrate goes above 135, until you've adapted and your heartrate never goes above that in 25 minutes. Then you might choose to add time, or add a tiny little bit of speed. The most important is to be regular and not miss sessions.
It's simply called the TALK TEST in the Fitness Field.
Yes and it's been a metric for years! 👍
The problem with the talk test is you could do a series of really short sprints and be able to talk! Or you could go zone 3 for 2-3 minutes then back to zone 1 for 5 minutes etc.
@@richardmiddleton7770 common sense, a sprint isn't Z2 and you wouldn't vary your watts
@Aaron ___ yeah, can't yoyo back and forth with speed and heart rate and measure it and call it useful lol
Thank you, Comrade Pavel.
Anyone familiar with the 'sing test'? Inability to sing normally or say a somewhat challenging verse well is now in zone 2. Ref Dr Rob Goode U of Toronto. In other words, a long sentence requires a breath somewhere in-between (i.e., huffing).
I was chatting away last night while doing 30 minutes on the indoor bike. Average HR 126 bpm, Max HR 133 bpm. 230 Watts average. Got a new VO2 max of 83.0 as well. Body weight just under 56 kg's. It was Zone 2. I train most of the time in that Zone. Rarely do I ramp things up. 80% intensity. I do two other things not usually mentioned. I ride an average cadence of 60 rpm and hydrate to a level where I weigh more coming off the trainer than I did getting on. In two hours, I'll drink 2 -3 litres. I've just turned 62 years old.
83 v02 is pro level.
With 83 Vo2Max (at age 62!) you are in the same class of Lance Amstrong and Chris Froom (they had 84), but less then Indurain (88). Maybe check your measurement.
How are your knees holding up? 60 RPM!
this is a joke right? no 62 year old has a Vo2 max of 82.
83??? Haha no you dont. Any why are you cycling at 60RPM ?
Oh!!! So basically we can use RPE and, as mentioned below by R.E. the "Talk Test" instead of shilling out money for a lactate test and the old RPE 2 that has been well-known and used for decades is good enough for most of us. I had to wonder after trying to listen to the full interview (gave up before this part) because all I was hearing about is some sort of Zone 2 that was measured by lactate tests in a lab, something I have zero interest in doing. More money saved on tests such as VO2 max which really show little meaning in actual performance. Note the confusion by many in the comments on how to estimate Zone 2 that this simple explanation would have mostly avoided to begin with.
Thanks for the detailed content you provide. Could you please elaborate on two questions that remain a bit unclear to me.
1. Will pedaling at Zone2 at a lower cadance with higher (heavier) resistance i.e. using slow twitch muscles use more fat storage for energy, vs pedaling at Zone2 at high cadence with lower (lighter) resistance using fast twitch muscles?
2. What is the minimal duration for the shortest recommended session, for getting optimal benefit for fat burning?
Greetings from across the pond.
When I try to do a talk test when I believe I'm in zone 2 and heart rate steady, my heart rate goes up 5-6 bpm when I talk and lowers when I stop talking. Is this to be expected?
When I did my VO2max test with the mask on my face, they gave me an estimate of my lactate threshold and my zones based on my heartrate. That may also be a good starting point for people.
The only way to find out is doing it in the lab yeh?
The physiology is better understood but can be confusing. In training I’m high school and college we used “the talk test” for the majority of our mileage. Simple, easy no
Milli mole talk. If this is about geeking out on cycling, which it might be, then I apologize. If running getting a VO2 max test is a waste of money. If you have the money to spend you will be running when you can hold a conversation and be running between 60 and 70% of your max HR. Millimole precision is scope creep. Maybe not for world class cyclists. To everyone who wants to get in shake and live longer a mM of lactate discussion is mixing science with practical advice. It’s more interesting. But a healthier public asap will help all of us. Discussion of milliMoles doesn’t help us get there.
At 72, I remember this type of Aerobic Training, was called "LSD" "Long-Slow-Distance"
Low intensity, Longer time, endurance training. Zone 2 just repackaged the same type of training!
Riding alone, talking to myself…. Looks pretty funny 😁. Following breathing pace. Riding alone not talking. When there is natural pause in between exhale and inhale, its in Z2, if Z2 is in this context from 5 zone system, not 3 zone system
Excellent, relevant and actionable- thank you gentlemen. I can now upgrade my zone 2 game !
Peter I use Kaatsu regularly and was wandering if you are walking on a treadmill in zone 2 does Kaatsu take you out of it because Kaatsu releases lactate. I am 71 and Kaatsu has made me gain muscle while exercising to failure and have strengthened my legs a lot. I couldn't do 5 squats without it hurting lol. I do over a hundred with Kaatsu bands on because without it I would have to go to 200 to get to failure. So if I don't go to failure and put Kaatsu on cycle mode and walk breathing thru nose and can carry on a conversation am I still in zone 2 ? Or should I just go without Kaatsu and when i get done put them on and try some sprints to close to failure?
Wait do you only agree 100% or 1000%? There's a huge difference there!
I’m thoroughly confused by what is zone 2. As a percentage of max HR most seem to agree it’s 60-70% but that’s much lower than I can hold a conversation at (probably 7-10 bpm higher). What’s the answer?
Zone 2 isn't about HR specifically. Its a term used to describe the grade of effort (specific and unique to each person based on fitness level, age, genetics, etc) that allows them to use aerobic respiration for energy. A little biochemistry background is helpful to understand this. When you're exercising you need energy obviously...more than when you're at baseline. How our bodies go about "free-ing" this energy is really what zone 2 is trying to target. The most efficient way to get energy to contract our muscles to achieve this exercise is via beta oxidation (i.e. breaking down fat into ATP). ATP is the energy currency of our muscles. Beta-oxidation REQUIRES oxygen and the use of your mitochondria within your muscle cells. Depending on how fit you are, the concentration and quality of mitochondria within the muscle cells is rich or poor. If its rich, then you can process lots of fat and produce lots of ATP in a short period of time and supply the muscle with enough ATP to carry out the intensity of whatever its doing (e.g. running/cycling/rowing/elliptical/etc...usually something we'd consider "cardio"...this doesn't really apply to weightlifting). If you are working out at an intensity requiring more ATP than your mitochondrial infrastructure can sustain by burning fat using oxygen, then it begins supplementing with anaerobic means via glucose being used to make ATP (faster, but much less efficient). This pathway also creates lactic acid as a byproduct and your muscle and other organs (blood/liver) have to then clear this lactic acid via multiple mechanisms. Zone 2 is where you are primarily using oxygen and fat to supply your muscles with energy and your blood lactate level remains low because you are not making much. Hope this helps.
@@dr6627 thanks for this answer. Just curious, could this explain why I can run and hold a conversation although my heart rate sits at 160+?
My question is how many hours a week of zone 2 should a 62 yr old guy be doing? How long should a session be? We’re talking trainer riding. How about adding intervals of max power? Thank you.
a deep dive into Z4 / Glycolytic Capacity would be AWESOME too :)
In the 1960's and 70's the distance running community referred to their training method as LSD, long slow distance. How slow? Slow enough to carry on a conversation. As the gentleman said "sounds old school, but it works very well", yes it does. In the United states, marathon runners are not running any faster than the runners of the 70's, factoring in the advantage of the super shoes.
So, basically effortful conversation pace.
Trying to find this zone 2 expressed as a % of max heart rate. It’s a fricken long and arduous search. Wished Mr Attia could have asked him that simple question.
It is tough to come up with a specific number because it is different for everyone.
He said between 70-80% max. For trained athletes, closer to 80%
@@WattsCastle Isn't 70-80% Zone 3 by nearly all other definitions including Polar not Zone 2? 80% is Lactate Threshold correct?
If those are the ranges they are talking about then what they say makes sense at 130-150HR for most people.
@@WattsCastleDid he? In which podcast? That'd be much much easier to know the % intervals
@@bmp713Yes, I agree. 70-80% is zone 3 in all the reading I did.
Can you mix in some iambic pentameter for Zone 2 training? He Cranks the Arms with Speedplay Cleats. etc.
And trains zone 2 to avoid defeat. The climbs can wait lest he reaches zone 3 , dehydration turns yellow his pee. So post ride they go to Starbucks they meet.
Using this method how would you know if you've transitioned into zone 3. I'd imagine the difference is quite minor.
Exactly
Great conversation! How good is „nose breathing“ in determining you are in Z2? I personally find that the intensity I begin to struggle to breath through my nose corresponds to the upper end of Z2 by the metrics outlined in the deep dive conversation.
My nose is bigger than yours then 😉
Doesn't work for me. Deviated Septum. I just focus on feeling the ground under the wheels and breathing to my diaphragm.
Peter, How do I use watts within my zone 2 training? What are the formulas to use based off my weight and fitness and what should I target?
What if I can talk at 160 BPM? Is it possible I’m at zone 2 in HR that high?
Spot on 👍🏻 That’s also what Inigo San Millan confirms. I’m in zone 2 around heart rate 160-170 bpm. I have several running videos on my TH-cam channel on this matter, feel free to take a look (all have English subtitles).
This is sort of useful, but I don't want to rely on talking to myself while running in public to know if I'm in zone 2. I love to chat when I'm with someone, but as a dedicated runner that can't always be the case. As for lactate, I feel ridiculous pricking my finger every day while trying to enjoy jogging just to see if I'm recreational running correctly. Are HR zones really as dismissible as you make them sound? I can't even usually be right by keeping an eye on heart rate?
Who is developing an app with AI that can detect this ‘difficulty breathing’, based on baseline breathing and speaking a sentence.
Lol
Read a paragraph from the app while you're exercising and it will determine the level
Nice T-shirt Senna forever 🇧🇷
Why all of this worry about a “zone”? From decades all of athletes we learn to run easily by experience, if you’re all time watching the chronometer or talking to perceive your intensity you’ll bee confused.
Just try and get easy, but not all times you’ll feel the same. There are says when all of us had felt tired no mater the intensity, others is easy and flowing.
“Zone 2” is an artificial division to enhance some metabolic aspects, but you don’t want to be all time sticked to that: is really boring and not very productive. Sometimes you run a little faster, at same session or in other, sometimes slightly slower. This is natural in sport, trying to replace your perception with measurements leave the “mindfulness” of the easy runs or even the intensity runs.
One can track the training and verify after, so at an average will be on your targeted intensity just by feedback but don’t do it in real time.
Thanks I have been wondering home to do this without expensive equipment.
Hi, Great video, I love my Zone 2 training for long endurance rides, but just a quick question. I find that I get my most bang for my buck type of training in sweet spot training 3 days a week or under and overs. what's your thoughts on this and how would you put that into a program over a 8-12 hr cycling week, 3-4 hr strength week, 3 hr swim week, minimal running as I hate it lol
Hi Karl, theres a very simple way of optimising time in z2 and its the 80/20 rule. Take the total time you have available in a week in minutes.. divide by 100.. then multiply by 80 to get the optimal time (in a week) in z2... then the remainder (20%) is your time in sweetspot or Vo2 max. Dont underestimate the incredible value of z2 training.
what if you don't have anybody to talk to, or don't know what to say?
What about halfway through the workout you get that “second wind”, and the target heart rate for 2nd half feels like a less strenuous RPE…do you increase intensity or maintain the bpm for the entirety?
It’s “rate” not “relative” for RPE
What's faster, practical and realistic for an amateur competitive rider, a lactate lab test or a good HRM? It seems to me this "new" approach is to confirm by a lactate measurement that you are indeed training on zone 2 at 60%-70% BPM. That's assuming your MHR was measured by a field test, at full resting state, all-out effort, not by the 220-age formula. A high lactate reading after riding at 60%-70% will indicate you are overtraining and certainly your monitor will display it. Obviously, your personal zone 2 will vary depending on your level of fitness. I assume Tadej Pogacar's jersey.
I wonder how the sense of “burning” in the muscle can indicate the build up of lactic acid and therefore if you are in or out of zone 2.
That's more of a function of the temperature of the muscle. The hotter it gets the more it breaks down and the more burning you will feel. I'm not sure if its the temp that regulated the lactic acid or not, but the point is the temperature is a direct correlary/causal to how much it burns. You can actually regulate this by regulating the core body temp of your body via cooling the forhead, palms of hands, and the bottom of your feet. You will notice a big difference in performace if you cool off those areas which then pull the heat from your body compared to if you insulate those areas
@@weich1q2w thanks Austin that’s interesting info that I never was taught. Professors have always said it’s the lactic acid that causes the burn I’ll have to research more, thanks.
@Logan Lussier it's not the lactic acid itself, it's the accumulation of hydrogen ion as a waste product. You need the oxygen to decrease the amount of hydrogen but if you're higher than zone two you aren't bringing in enough oxygen to clear it.
fantastic interview!!!
hmmmm how to do this at the gym treadmill without talking to myself when I have no friends...
Why even do "Zone 2"? It's not like our evolutionary adaptations would be of any value if you had to hit exactly this zone to adapt properly...just train hard with high effort resistance training, possibly swim/bike hard with HIIT interval, and you are covered.
Is there a method to use when you're riding alone? I don't see how anyone can be taking for an entire ride.
HymI I have problem with all that talking during the run. When I’m talking my ❤ bits about 20 more than same speed but without talking😅
Excellent discussion!
What is the best indoor cycling platform for zone 2 training? I’m only familiar with zwift but not sure what else is out there that would work well for this type of training
What percent max heart rate are they calling Zone 2? My understanding is that Zone 2 only 60-70% max heart rate?
I have more often heard that Zone 3 70-80% gives the most benefits to building the heart.
Many including Attia seem to call Zone 3 Zone 2 around 70-80%
The worst thing is the different definitions of each zone.
Some models incorporate lactate or resting heart rate. I’d rather we just use 60-70% for zone two for uniformity.
@@james1000 I simply go as hard as I can without starting to run out of breath, or feel my muscles tightening.
Which for me is usually around 75%.
Love your channel
So solo exercising whilst singing just out of breath works?
Different zone calcs vs HRR which uses RHR along with .. Which is correct?
How does this work for swimmers? You can’t exactly have a conversation while your head is underwater and you are only breathing every once in awhile.
My guess is that swimming is too intense to stay afloat in zone 2.
He touched on that in his zone 2 q&a video. It’s here on TH-cam.
Not if you do synchronized swimming, duh
How this it work? Have you heard of warm up? Its by feel. Technique and movement efficiency matters more than vo2 max that will propel you through the water. People are thinking about it too much. Its the same analogy of bike gears.
pog is on gear with big talent you can never be like him.
It's RATING not relative or rate of PERCEIVED EXERTION (RPE)
Any links that show how you would do it with a lactate meter i.e a protocol
Which means I should keep talking while running ?
Is there any truth to a fat burning zone?
Yes
Peter, how do I increase my vo2 if I’m training in zone 2
I just ran 9 miles as slowly as I could and my Garmin watch says I spent 46% of the time in zone 5 (>157 bpm) , 35% in zone 4 (140-157 bpm), 14% in zone 3 (123-139 bpm), and 2% in zone 2 (105-122). I breathed in and out only through my nose without difficulty the entire run. What does that say about my fitness level? Does this mean I have to walk fast to train in zone 2? If I continue to train as I did today, will my zone 2 running time increase over time because I’ll become more fit?
Keep in mind Peter and his guest are talking about Lactate Zone 2. Those are different zones than those used on commercial exercise bikes, treadmills and your Garmin watch. So you need to determine your zone 2 by lactate measurements or by the method that he describes here.
Yes, if you train in the "Lactate Zone 2" as described by San-Millan you will become more fit over time.
180 minus your age is a good figure to get you in your zone 2. You might need to do a max heart rate test as you might have an unusually high max heart rate. Other factors can increase your HR like caffeine, hydration (higher if dehydrated) and weather you're still digesting food particularly carbs. It's best to do zone 2 first thing in the morning before breakfast or caffeine and avoid hills or walk the hills. If you stick to this you'll slowly see your HR come down over a few weeks. Try do it at least 4 times a week for a minimum of 60 minutes. Stick to it and trust the process.
@@robdoubleyou4918 No… it’s the same “Zone 2”. Lactate levels are just the most accurate way to calculate that number. Watches are not that great at calculating zones for individuals
@@EdwardsNH From “Q&A on Zone 2 with Peter Attia, M.D.” uploaded to TH-cam Apr. 21. 2021.
00:19:11 - Why do some wearables have different definitions on zones?
Peter reads the viewer’s questions: “How is it 80% […of my HR max] my Garmin at Zone 2 is 60%. This is confusing”.
Peter answers: “Ok..So heart rate monitors, when they tell you their zones, they’re probably not referring to the zones we’re talking about. Your Garmin might be working off the 7 zones that are cycling power zones - the FTP zones. And you’re absolutely right. An FTP zone 2 is well below a lactate zone 2. “
He goes on.
For reference, I’ve found the following:
Inigo San Milan’s and Peter’s Lactate Zones - uses 6 zones
FTP Zones - uses 7 zones
Garmin - uses 5 zones
Been struggling with HR drift for a few years…traditional medicine says get ablation and pace maker…it is very inconsistent where I can do a ride in zone 2 watts and HR can be in zone 2 or 4 and literally step jumps with most of them having no change in PE…despite feedback from Drs I feel like it is connected to my breathing/lung performance…whenever I do traditional stress tests or EKG my heart is healthy and fine as is my blood work…this issue only presented under exercise level stress…any ideas?
How can we find the maximum heart rate? Thanks
How could zone2 be extrapolated out to smaller muscle groups? In particular I'm thinking about rock climbing and the strain on the forearms. They aren't large enough to cause heart rate to increase, so how to gauge how hard they are working?
Perhaps try to perform a task that affects the forearms that you can do repeatedly for a reasonable amount of time? I don't think zone 2 aerobic training is transferable to rock climbing though.. or maybe it is, I don't know 😅
@@Permuh I think it is. The longer you can burn fat without transitioning to burning carbs means you can stay on the wall longer. With a extremely high max finger strength, we're talking a two arm hang of 2x bodyweight off of a 20mm edge for 10 seconds, there room for a very high zone 2 fat burning limit. The implication is that at submaximal climbing you don't dip into carb stores and save it for the maximal effort for the crux or the highly resistant section of a route.
I had my zone 2 clarified by, vo2 max in a lab setting. It gave me the zones in both heart rate and wattage. Funny thing if i am in my upper zone 2 in watt, then i am way beyond zone 2 in heartrate, if i am in my hr zone 2, i am below in wattage. Whats the take on this, should you maintain the zone 2 wattage, and wait for the physical adoptions to take place, ie the heart rate will in the calculated zone 2 with enough training?
I was using a Polar around the chest, that sent read-out to my iphone. Was doing around 115-120bpm according to some influencers ( 58yo).
But it just stopped working, and tried changing the CR2025 battery.
Fk It. I'm going to just go by the perceived exertion - i.e. the talk test and dump the hr monitor.
How to know “you’re” in zone 2
Could respiration rate or a certain increase in the respiration rate be used to define Zone 2 of the 5 zone model?
There’s a good proxy with respiration, but you need to be a nose breather during the day so to speak to use this effectively. If that’s your case (and it should be for everyone but unfortunately it’s not), then top of zone 2 will be the point where you can no longer run while ONLY breathing through your nose. Usually it’s easier to do this test on a treadmill, run for 2 minutes, let heart rate stabilize, still breathing through the nose? Increase speed, repeat, increase, till you find a speed where your nose breathing is no longer enough (eg. You sound like a wild hog 😂). Take note of HR at that point, that’s you cut-off between zone 2 and 3.
can you just go by heart rate as a percentage of hr max?
Can you combine zone 2, zone 5 and weightlifting in a single training session? I'm currently doing a 45 minute zone 2 warmup with a zone 5 finish. I'm then lifting weights for 45-60 minutes then doing another zone 5 interval sprint. This works out to be 180 minutes zone 2 + a Norwegian 4x4 every week, training 4 days. Does that work?
Is the zone 2 heart rate not the easiest way to tell?
This make sense for endurance sports, but what about power endurance sports like rowing? I'm mostly in Zone 3-4 ( medium effort / steady state ). At this pace i can talk a little bit but wouldn't be able to hold a phone call ;) like Peter suggested here.
It’s all talk unless you can weigh & measure it. I wear a Garmin Instinct watch 24/7. On my early AM Ruck sessions I actively push into zone 2 on the low end of the range. For my age (60) it’s supposed to be (220 - 60 = 160 x .65) = 104. I push past 104 and remain there for the 30 mins I’m out there. You have to modulate your speed to keep it there. However, I find it better to do my 20 minute HIIT routine with Kettlebells where I’m reaching 80-90% of my HR max before the half hour ruck. The HIIT piece warms everything up and I can reach my target much faster otherwise I feel like I need to sprint at the start to even get into zone two. All this “perceived exertion” talk is fine if you have a good grasp of reality, but most people under -OR- over shoot it. You’ve got to get the tech in order to factor out the emotions. Hard numbers is where it’s at.
Hum, looks like whenever I do a Zone 2, just call my wife in for a heart to hear conversation.
Or I can do the reading with the kids. That sounds like a good one.
How is zone 2 more impactful and beneficial than than that same time spent in zone 3 or 4?
It’s building a “cardio base”. Zone 2 is currently the best known way to do that (with one day at Zone 5). It makes a big difference is general health and aches and pains to have a strong cardio base. Plus, it has the added benefit of making you a LOT faster.
I think acidity destroys mitochondria. Also You will not get scars in Your heartmuscle. See these videos for starters:
th-cam.com/video/m8lo5eEVAZI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ExerciseInstitute
th-cam.com/video/MALsI0mJ09I/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TEDxTalks
th-cam.com/video/Y6U728AZnV0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TEDxTalks
I'm no expert, I´ve done my share of zone 3 bikerides. But now only once a week.
It's not, and nobody said it is. But it's much more repeatable and therefore desirable.
I 100% disagree. I’m in good shape and I can easily hold a conversation zone 3 maybe even zone 4. My friend is not in as good shape and he holds a conversation zone 3 and 4 no problem.
This is very inaccurate in my opinion, other sources says zone 2 is 60-70% of max hr, which too me is around 125. I can keep a strained conversation with a hr of at least 160 which is zone 4.
It shouldn't be a strained conversation, it should be easy and full sentences. I'm guessing you're around 55 years old? Have you done a max heart rate test when fully rested, fuelled, hydrated and raring to go?
@@richardmiddleton7770 Yes my hr max is 195, just do the calculation from my comment instead of being plain stupid, and you would know 55 is way off. Try again.
So my 90 training session in zone 2 is to long?
All this science for Z2. Just wake up in the morning and run with mouth closed
Ok but I can talk in zone 4 too
I did a 2.5hrs ride on Wahoo RGT last night, I didn't set out with a plan just wanted to complete this event, at the end my average HR was 136bpm, and my average power was 163w. So- My FTP is 255w according to my my last fitness test (Half Monty) and my Z2 is 121-150bpm.... So my HR Z2 was pretty much bang in the middle, and Strava says I was 93% in Z2 (5% in Z1 and 1% in Z3) according to HR, but according to power I was only 62% in Z2 (21% in Z1, 14% in Z3 and 3% in Z4).....so I got my power above the Z2 for a fair bit, but kept the HR mainly in Zone 2? My power at 163W average is 64% FTP so that's in range too (55-75% FTP)..... I think I can take it that I must have nailed the mid Z2 pretty well?? (Considering it was a 38km ride with 1250m climb, go in slow and watch for HR drift)
MAF 180 minus age works pretty well as a proxy for aerobic threshold.
@@cracked229 not terrible but take your point it's not for everyone, but it's a good starting point, then should adjust for self afterwards. I think its also too vague for older athletes.
Does anyone recommend a lactate meter to test with? I was researching Dexcom meters, but it seems they are not there yet.
Lucy Barclay who finished second at Kona a few days ago uses one. It's in one video on her channel about the last workouts before her race. You can ask there, triathletes are tech nerds they'll know
Can we turn this into percentage of heart rate?? For instance, at the end of a 60 minute Zone 2 ride, my heart rate will creep over 80%, maybe even up to 83-84% of max heart rate. Is that too high??? Or is this going to be directly related to overall fitness and not cross over very well?
Having done several tests with lactate getting checked, 80% is likely to quite a bit too high. Especially if you already experience heart rate drift after 60 minutes (heart rate slowly going up, maintaining the same speed).
You should much rather stay around 70-75% of max. HR.
If your HR is slowly creeping up over around 70% you're not really in zone 2. Also slowly dehydrating during the ride can slowly increase your HR as can eating anything high carb during the ride.
Yes, that’s unquestionably Zone 3
I ride alone so a conversational exertion metric isn't useful. After reading around all over, I've just decided to go with the HR [220-age x 70%-80%] method. And, when I'm tired and/or underslept, I trend towards the lower part of the range.
I tend to think that'd be Zone 3... bit confusing
Try talking to an imaginary person. Pretend you’re on a call via Bluetooth if others are around.
So that's just like walking a bit fast not even jugging right?
No.
great
Simple, if you’re in London Peckham estate you’re in zone 2 ✅
Nose breathing? That’s how I know I’m in zone 2.
As a runner for over 50 years I wonder how we ever got to this point. We have made running into some scientific recipe that no one seems to understand according to the comments.
You want to see zone 2 exercise? Go to a playground and watch the kids. They just do it naturally.
Probably walking at a quick pace is as close to zone 2 as you can get, and stay.
There are way too many problems with heart rate training. Drink an energy drink or a couple of cups of coffee and try to stay in zone 2.
Mood and stress affect your heart rate.
Just go have fun and don't worry so much.
does anybody know if you're on a bike, what power zone 2 translates to? is it in a range between let's say 80 to 100 watts?
It different for all of us. You need to determine what is your HR is Zone 2.
@@1978Vtold how can i do that if i don.t have a gadget? is there an "old way" ?
@@theslackerUsually if you can carry conversation.
I'm f'd ... I 😊Exercise alone
I thought it was 180 minus your age roughly
I assume that zone 2 is calculated by HR and not Power
The two should align pretty well if you've done an FTP test correctly.
Both
Singing while cycling
Would this zone 2 be 55-75% of ftp?
Works with my own numbers, so I'd say yes
All of this sounds logical but when you study the blue zones which represent the longest living healthiest humans on the planet I doubt any of them are doing 4 to 5 days zone 2 and 2 days of zone 5. Seems like this is to much wear and tear on the body.
I think the idea is that being physically active is good for you. I feel these people obsessing over specific details about being in these various zones are kind of missing the point. Lets say you go for a 3 hour hike with various flats and hills. Your heart rate is going to go up by quite a bit when you tackle the hills and be slightly above 100 BPM when you are on easier terrain. Your heart rate was elevated and remained so for hours at a time here, which is going to give you a lot of benefits.