Lion King Two: A Painfully Deep Dive | Big Joel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Let's talk about the Lion King Two!!! Woooooo.
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Edited by Ben from Canada!
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Hey y'all, hope you liked this one! I know the green screen is kinda new and different, and the whole thing is a bit rough around the edges, but I wanted to try something out lol. Anyhow, if you DID like the video and want to support me on patreon, here's the link! www.patreon.com/bigjoel
Also, this video was edited in collaboration with Ben from Canada!! Follow him here and get him to do work for you!!! twitter.com/BenChinapen
Wait. So you weren’t wearing a sweater in the safari?
Green screen? I thought you were actually there,
loved the visuals
Keep the green screen. It's the greatest addition to your channel since sweaters.
This was incredible. Your videos keep getting better and better. Awesome job!
I think the reason they decided not to make Kovu Scar's son is to avoid the incest implications that would come from Kiara dating her cousin.
LOL
Aren't Simba and Nala like half-siblings?
@@juliamavroidi8601 They show Nala's dad in "The Lion Guard", they have different dads
Once again, the Lion King fails at depicting how real monarchies work
I didn't know what a "head-canon" was for a good 15 more years, but as a child, I simply head-canon'd Kovu as Scar's son. He obviously is. But they wanted to avoid incest.
I can't believe you spent all your patreon money on going to all these fancy exotic locations.
Looks like big Became big philosophy
And he didn't even invite me 😢
You done did the songs dirty, Big Joel. 'He Lives in You' is an emotional masterpiece, 'My Lullaby' is a malevolent, dramatic requiem and 'One of Us' is an absolute ballad. B-sides, my ass.
He Lives In You literally made it into the Lion King broadway musical!
Total facts! The songs still slap!
We are one!
Some of the songs were even cut from the original movie!
LOVE WILL FIIIIIIIIIND A WAAAAAAYYYYY, ANYWHERE I GO, IM HOME, IF YOU ARE THERE *BESIIIIIIDEEE MEEEEEE*🎵 🎶 🎵 💕
As far as I can tell and based on research, He Lives In You is the only song written for the original Lion King soundtracks tie-in album, Rhythm of the Pridelands. I don't know for sure if it was intended to be in the actual movie, but it is thematically tied. Rafiki even says it. "He lives in you." The track also contains songs heard in the background, or extensions of the soundtrack heard in the movie.
I've always liked My Lullaby as a villain song. Zira's like "installing my son as king would be cool, but I'm mainly here for the horrible, agonising deaths of all who wronged me"
Yea, it was very useful hearing the layers of her motivations as a child and how resentment can taint genuine grievances like Zira had.
I remember liking it just because Kovu's rock throne/bed was cool
"My Lullaby" and "Not One of Us" genuinely slap more than any song in this film has any right to.
TRUE
I always really loved "We Are One" as well.
@@NounOzlos I disagree, but I'll give it a like in solidarity anyway.
This is "He Lives in You" erasure
@@emilybroderick2421 That's what you do with 🗑
Imagine if Kovu and his family were all hyenas and Kiara still falls in love with him. That would have been wild.
Imagine if all of the outsiders looked just like all of the other lions and Kovu looked like Simba.
This would just represent how bigoted and stubborn Simba is to the lions he banished from his pride lands.
@@AbridgedPwned Lol I haven't seen Lion King 2 but yeah, it seems basically like they try to justify bigotry visually by making the "evil" lion look different. "people that look different are evil" lmao
I'm just giggling imagining Kovu ending up being disappointed that his new mate didn't have a pseudopenis.
Ha ha ha “wild”
tory porter they made them look scary, they should have made them look like normal lions but skinny and frail looking.
This is one of the best Disney squeals, you just didn’t have a crush on Kovu like the rest of us
that fatass?
So true
@Marshal Marrs like racist idealogies?
@Marshal Marrs you just didn’t have a crush on kovu
this is too true. having a crush on kovu was a universal experience
*Kiara:* Look at them! They are us. What differences do you see?
*Simba:* The eyeshadow for one
Also Malnourishment, clearly
LMTO
You ain’t right 🤣
I just want to acknowledge the great double meaning of "Simba's Pride" never realised it when I was a kid.
Triple meaning! Simba's Pride (his group of lions), Simba's Pride (his daughter), Simba's Pride (his refusal to listen)
It's a really clever subtitle.
@@DARE0451 Quadruple meaning! Simba's Pride as in Simba's gay
@@orimengu Good for him :)
@@orimengu I'd have thought bi
@@orimengu bruh he's with nala, he'd have to be bi if anything
At first I thought the "tentative multipart series" was all going to be about the Lion King 2
edit: it is the will of the people, Mr. Joel.
i wish
He's not IHE
I have tentative multiparts.
What that?
"Tentative Multipart Series" was the name of my band in collage.
As someone who has never seen this movie, the impression I'm getting is:
- Scar was king
- Random lioness fell in love with/developed obsession for Scar
- Scar died
- Lioness made him out to be a martyr and spread his ideas and idealized memory
- Cult developed
- Simba banished the cult, a threat to his position and lion society
- Cult intensifies
- Child of cult leader raised to be their new leader, messiah, Scar's descendant
- Lion King II ensues
@@Fourger14 Nuka was Scar's son. But Vitani and Kovu weren't.
Never even thought about it. Imagine if Scar never even talked to Zira!
😮 A more succinct summary has never been written. Thumbs up.
I've heard some headcanon that Vitani is the daughter of Scar and Nala. The headcanon is that back when Nala was still at Pride Rock during Scar's rein, scars supposedly mated with Nala, and then Vitani was born. Zira, who, I guess was part of the pride, kept Vitani because Nala told her to, and went to find Simba.
@@octavianjoseph8633 This makes me feel things I can't describe.
For all its flaws, it's still better than the 2019 remake.
yeah, at least this movie has a soul
And most of the other Disney sequels
@@daniilromanenko3677 nope this is empty. It's just the remake steals your one too.
@@-Scrapper- i'll admit that it's a pretty mediocre story but you can tell that they put effort into certain aspects like the songs
>painfully deep dive
>video is under an hour long
You're getting pretty hyperbolic with your titles now, Mr. Joel.
ikr, I would totally have watched an hour long analysis of this movie. I have weirdly many feelings about it
TBH tho: 23 mins is VERY deep dive considering the material he was working with.
Joel went underwater for this. I’d say that’s a deep dive
Deep as in over analyzing ?😎
I've watched a seven and a half hour deep dive on one of the shallowest Pokemon games to date. Anything under 60 minutes is barely dipping your feet in.
This movie could have been so much more interesting if Kovu was a little Hyena boy and Kiara was a lion princess inexplicably in love.
Simba’s hatred would have been somewhat justified. And the audience can grapple with the question, is love wrong, just because two sentient animals don’t happen to be the same species?
And Timon and Pumbaa could come out to Kiara and be like, listen little princess, you grew up knowing us, it doesn’t make a difference if you’re a lion and he’s a hyena, it doesn’t make a difference if you’re both in love.
Bam. Disney’s first gay couple canonized.
Yes, please.
Headcanon accepted
Ooh I love this 💛
While make kovu an hyena would solved one problem of the movie(the outsider lions),. It would solved the other problem Joel brought up, wheiter the hyenas was just the victim of the pridelands, and whether joining scar was justified
waiting for the fanfiction
People consistently undersell Zira. It's powerful to have a villain who grows bitter from having everything--home, security, Scar--ripped from her, to the extent where she careens past sympathetic territory into the realm of an abusive cult leader. She's groomed her entire pride into killers. Her son is neglected for being too weak and dies seeking her attention, she disowns her devoted daughter for not wanting to kill Kiara and the others, and she brainwashes Kovu into thinking he has to *be* Scar someday because she's that obsessed. "My Lullaby" is vicious and unsettling; I like it even more than "Be Prepared." The problem with Zira not being in the first film is that we don't get to see Simba encounter the development of this mentality, so it's unclear why he's so hostile.
And I'm pretty sure most of this story was drafted when they were still planning on Kovu being Scar's son, an idea they had to scrap for incest reasons, hence the *one* throwaway line they added to prevent it.
They actually have two lines to stress the point; Nuka says he's adopted, then Kovu himself says "he wasn´t really my father".
Kovu sees himself as an extension of Scar because he was raised from birth explicitly to be Scar's heir. Seems pretty straightforward.
So….he’s basically Zuko from Avatar The Last Airbender.
I think there is a reason why Kovu feels like he has some of Scar in him. He was literally being raised to be the next Scar, lead the outsider lions (their version of Simba). So while there's no blood relation, he grew up being fed all of Scar's beliefs and ideals, being told he would basically BECOME Scar.
What is other lions lived in the pridelands but not in priderock? That’s a possibility
Yeah, it's not clear why Joel assumed that Kovu wouldn't have been taught by and about Scar.
After Simba tells Kovu the story of Scar, Kovu says that's different from the story he has been told. Zira constantly compares child Kovu which Scar and teases that he will be king
The part of Scar in Kovu is the indoctrination
Kovu was intended to be a puppet king while zira was the one pulling strings. Kovu was a tool
like it's so obvious, I realise Big Joel talks a lot but really makes little sense of what he's saying half the time. I honestly stopped watching a lot of his videos bc of this.
The fact that this movie wasn't about hyenas was always really weird and strange to me. In a world of talking animals, you kind of can't have a racism metaphor that's just limited to one-species (unless that one species is the only talking animal). Because when Kiara says "Them? Us? They are us! Look at them! What differences do you see?" it ends up sounding like "They look like us so we should not be racist to them. If they did not look like us it would be fine to be racist at them"
Yeah that part also rubbed me the wrong way. The fact the lionesses also change in appearance to become more for lack of a better word "less evil looking" and more like pride landers doesn't help. It kinds of makes it seem like they were like "oh they do look like us so let's forgive them". It's just kind of work out benefiting the lions who banished them without them having to change there ways.
I think that’s the point
Well, they are a different colour. And isn't that kind of the biggest issue in racism with humans?
Personally I always got it as the rich vs the poor and Simba not understanding that the outsiders were literally just themselves, looking to eat and survive, none of them were actually evil to begin with (except Zira). This to me was the message Kiara was telling, not anything to do with how they looked or the fact that they're different. The whole point is they're all the same, regardless of what upbringing they had.
@Candy sweetener there's not only lions though, there's all kinds of other animals that all talk and act like people, and if you make the only discussion be about conflicts between lions then it kinda glosses over the fact that the lions basically eat whatever other animals (who are sentient) they want. It's the equivalent of focusing on nobles having a feud and saying "come on, we're all nobles so we should get along" while the peasants are totally ignored.
I feel like Kiara's arc is less about her "other half" being literally Kovu and more that it's about her own ability to think and decide things for herself, and wanting to be with Kovu is just an extension of that. Her lyrics in her first song are about "trusting in her own heart" and stuff, so it seems to me that her real conflict is with the status quo of the power structure she was born into, that she still loves and respects but sees the flaws in.
That's what I think too. Especially becouse there are some key points in her an Kovus arc that are dirrect paralels.
Like, both of them are to be expected to be one thing: She the next queen, he the next Scar.
Non of them are allowed to make there own decissions until they meet each other (Zira dictates every of Kovus steps, and Simba dictates and observates every if Kiaras steps)
And both of then feel like they aren't howl, like there should be more to them than what others decidet for them.
This.
Joel says that Kiara has no arc, but then shows the scene where she literally convinces Simba that he was wrong. If Kiara hadn't been there, it would have been a bloodbath. Simba would have never had any reason to question any of his decisions.
🎶 Even those that are gone are with us as we go on 🎶
🎶 Your journey has only begun🎶
🎶Tears of pain, tears of joy- something nothing can destroy!! 🎶🎶
🎶You will find, when you see - we. Are. One.🎶🎶
i vividly remember being in primary school and having a classmate confess to me that she thought kovu was 'pretty hot for a lion'
😂 I had a convo with a friend recently where we both realized all of our first crushes were on various anthropomorphic Disney animals…our conclusion was that Disney knows how to make animals hot. I still don’t know how I feel about this.
i think kovu helped awaken something in me
He’s literally Zuko’s fursona
WHAT THE FUCK LMAO WHY ARE YOU RIGHT @@pennysanchez7656
Here's my hot take: "Romeo and Juliet with Lions" is the B-plot. Zira's tragedy is the main plot.
Too bad they last-minute cut out two of her most important character moments: Nuka explaining his own character motivation before he dies forcing Zira for a brief moment to weigh the cost of what she is doing against what she belives to be a righteous cause, but ultimatly just further fueling her resolve, and her suicide at the end when she realizes it has all been for nothing and chooses death over reconciliation.
Wait, what? No they didn't. The version I grew up with had both those scenes. And that was the original release.
@@WobblesandBean First I’m hearing of it. Wtf? That sounds cool
Wobbles and Bean doubt it had the suicide scene in the final cut. You can find it on TH-cam, but it’s only sketched out and unfinished. We had the original Release as well and it didn’t contain neither.
@@isthecarpetcomfortable9410 I specifically remember Zira refusing Kiara's help and falling into the river
@@fightingfaerie Me too. Was not even implied that she let go by herself?
Can we just agree that "He lives in you" is a fucking slapper.
Even if we can't agree on that, we should be agreement that Upendi does slap
He Lives In You was literally taken from the Broadway. It's about how the Kings of the Past live inside us all and it was sung by Mufasa. Later on when reprised, it's sung by Rafiki about how Mufasa lives inside Simba
Actually it was composed by Lebo M and pitched for the 1994 Lion King film but was rejected, so was released on the 1995 album Rhythm of the Pride Lands.
i remember when i was a kid, i would go to the library and watch lion king "lore" on youtube and i accepted the canon that scar got his scar by protecting mufasa from a wildebeest, but he got no thanks for it. it was such a weird fanfiction situation but i loved it. also, when i turned 12, i wrote to disney studios and told them how much i loved the lion king (i had a lion king bedspread, little plastic decals all over my room, stuffed animals, oh my god and all the lion king music on my mp3 player. this was 2013), and they sent me back some prints of simba as a cub and as an adult. idk the lion king is so special to me, even this goofy sequel. im not sure why im saying all of this but yeah. remembering that disney sent an irrelevant kid some prints of simba just because she said she loved them just makes me smile and hate disney a little less.
When I was little I would watch the original all day. I saw the Broadway musical which made me cry lol. It has such a special place in my heart too
I grew up watching those lore videos
@@hassanalkhalaf1115They went hard low-key
@@Python-xs2iv they went so deep
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 Fr
Honestly, the part of this movie that stood out the most to me is Zira's song, "My Lullaby," about how she wants to brutally murder Simba's family and fantasizes about hearing them all die and suffer. It's so much edgier and catchier than you'd expect for a Disney animated sequel.
I thought the connection with scar they had was sort of religious, so even if they never met scar themselves they aligned themselves with his ideology
(Edit: typo)
This is my favorite interpretation.
Like maoists
This is what I’ve always thought. Like he’s almost tormented with the ghost of Scar and what he was brought up to believe vs the reality in front of his face.
SL42 Yes SL42, like Maoists
pistonfists Like Maoists and the ghosts of sparrows
The movie that launched a thousand furries.
Honestly, I think their biggest mistake was not making the characters gay. They could have made a fortune. World wasn't ready, I guess.
wholeheartedly agree, lmao.
Oh, remake idea worth a million dollars
Yeah, it was ‘98, I don’t think that’s a realistic ask unfortunately
The reason you don't see as many girl furries is because they all saw Kovu when they were seven and they never moved on because how the fuck can you top that perfection.
after this whole weird ass big joel video. This.
No one:
*Me as a 9y.o.: DECEPTION! DISGRACE!*
You're not the only one
EVIL AS PLAIN AS THE SCAR ON HIS FACE
@@josephdavis9234, yeah
Fun fact, as a kid I liked the Lion King 2 more than the Lion King. I liked how there was a bigger variety of Lion characters. There straight up was more girls for me to connect with.
I’ve always said that this movie would be almost-kind-of-good if the Outsiders had just been hyenas
Hyenas raising a cub that they thought looked like scar to be their eventual ruler? Or having kovu be a hyena and the story be about friendship?
Catelyn Holm Kovu can be a hyena and it can still be about romance. I don’t think we’re expected to think much about those beasts’ sex lives anyways. Plus every animal in this universe is just as intelligent as the next, so cross-species romances must happen. But if Disney didn’t want to necessarily go there in the 90’s then I GUESS a friendship movie would work too
You really want that deep a dive into a movie where the main characters eat members of their kingdom?
@@sunshineslowking5025 i mean. what did the lions eat?
@@sunshineslowking5025 yes. Better than those disney princess movies where the princess can literally communicate with animals and presumably still eats them. Wonder how ariel is getting on
what if i tell you my mom bought the dvd for lion king two thinking it was the original movie and i grew up with this movie only and thought this was the same lion king everyone else talked about
Oh god this is sad, but I think it happened to me too in some level. All I could remember from The Lion King, when I was a kid, were scenes of the second movie
@@juromori Lmao this is tragic and hilarious
Same. I watched the 2nd before the 1st so this film’s music always had a special place in my heart
i mean i might be completely biased bc of this, but i just love the songs a lot lol
This is exactly what happened with me and my parents. I grew up on all the Disney sequels way before having seen the originals, except for Mulan. I also thought that the coconuts in the Upedni sequence were giant Reeses' Puffs 💀
Zira told Simba that Kovu was Scar's heir. It's mentioned several times in the film, actually. It makes sense from this fact alone that Simba doesn't like Kovu because Kovu is a threat to his lineage. It should also be pointed out that originally, Kovu was intending to kill Simba and take his place as king at the beginning. Simba's reluctance is totally justified. The only reason this doesn't happen is because Kovu ends up falling in love with Kiara.
'He Lives In You' and 'Not One Of Us' are unironically my favorite Lion King songs. Yes that includes all the songs from the first one.
I always thought that scar was inscribed onto Kovu. That his scarness was socially constructed. He was treated by Simba like someone related to scar, like scar even, since he was a cub. Zira and Simba pushed Scar onto hin until he internalized him in a way.
So I always thought that the movie kinda blames his likeness to scar partially onto Simba, which felt actually kinda nuanced?
But I've could be mistaken, haven't watched the film in ages. :D
That's actually a really neat insight into it that provides a cool way to read their relationship. Though i'm pretty sure officially, it's because he was *totally* just supposed to be Scar's son, until they remembered Scar and Mufasa were brothers= Kiara & Kovu, cousins! The most "royal" pairing of all. >_< So yeah, obvious necessary hard swerve.
I thought the same! I had assumed that Kovu saying that somehow Scar was "part of him" was a subtle expression of that
I thought that too.
I thought that was pretty obvious as a kid.
I was so obsessed with this movie as a child, it was like my entire life. That fact haunts me to this day.
me too
Hell yea! For me, Kovu is by far the best part of the Lion King canon and top-tier in the Disney universe overall.
that was me with cars 2..
@@aspenrose_You have my condolences
Same lol. And then I watched the original and was.. Disappointed
"They weirdly kissed...in a way that confuses me"
-Peak Big Joel
I always figured that Simba was going through PTSD after all he experienced in the first movie, and that was why he was such a "jerk" in this movie.
I mean, seeing his dad murdered, being chased out by hyenas to the desert, nearly dying of thirst and hunger in the desert before being adopted by Timon and Pumbaa, presumably growing up with the guilt of his belief that it was all his fault that his dad died (the in-between-quel, TLK 1 ½, even implies that Simba had nightmares about the event as a cub in his earlier days with Timon and Pumbaa), and finally returning home to find that his uncle was trying to murder him the whole time, and just that one scene where Scar puts him on the spot and pulls that "It's your fault he's dead, do you deny it?"
Then Simba has that clear nightmare in the sequel about trying to save Mufasa but can't because the nightmare version of Scar is pulling him back, saying "Trust me, Simba!" before morphing into Kovu... I think that Simba was supposed to be implied to be emotional damaged by his childhood trauma and his paranoia about letting Kiara wander off stemmed from the fact that he wandered off a lot at her age and would have to have Mufasa rescue him until the day that Mufasa died saving him from a stampede that Simba had believed for the longest time was his fault because Scar had told him "What have you done? What will your mother think?"
Simba's behavior towards Kovu wasn't so much bigotry as it was more that Simba was unintentionally triggered by seeing his child associating with what looked like his uncle who tried to assassinated him and succeeded in having his father murdered. Simba's subconscious was probably like: "No, not again...", which was probably why he was so close minded through most of the movie before Kiara finally got through to him.
Still doesn't excuse the bad writing, tho, but I think going into this movie with the idea that Simba has PTSD would at least explain some of his neurotic behavior towards Kiara wanting to do things on her own, and I don't think lions really have good psychologist access, as thier only health care seems to be Rafiki. 👀
This is a good reply.
I always assumed that trauma informed most of Simba's actions in this movie, from his overprotectiveness to his extreme prejudice toward the Outsiders, and I thought he was supposed to come across as a bit irrational for it - processing some of that trauma and moving past it is part of his character arc, and the "Pride" in the title refers not just to his in-group of lions but also his refusal to look past his prejudices and question his ways of thinking.
OTOH, I first saw the movie as a young adult rather than a kid, so that might have something to do with my reading of it. :V
I planned to write a similar comment after reading some, but I found yours! This perspective makes the most sense to me. And, Simba likely struggles at times with being king and a father; living through formative years without his parents’ mentorship, or their familial relationships evolving.
Watching Biggest Joel talk about trash sequels to Bach in front of a green screen is all I need in my life.
It’s not a green screen he’s in the wilderness
Biggest Joel with best sweater!
The forbidden most important need in the hierarchy of needs
That shot of him in front of Jesus got me good
Perhaps we have glimpsed heaven?
Now I would really like you to pick apart the politics of Warrior Cats.
Oh gosh lol.
These two actually remind me of Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight though. Brambleclaw is the son of Tigerstar, and Squirrelflight is the daughter of Firestar. Both on either side of the "good" and the "bad". Tigerstar did questionable things, but he was a good leader in the long run. He brought Shadowclan out of their harsh living conditions. Arguably Tigerstar could be seen as one of the greatest leaders the series had to offer by date and that's what made him a terrifying villain. Now Brambleclaw lives in his father's shadow, whilst trying to prove himself to his own clan.
Sorry this was just an excuse for me to simp over Brambleboi
@@patch8932 Yess always reminded me of those two!
@@elenapaints972 Kiara is just more likeable than Squirrelflight, and that's my hot take of the hour.
@@patch8932 haha agree, although I still like squirrel flight, she's still kinda annoying
I like the green screen
You like the green screen
@@jonathanaguirre6508 He likes the green screen
There was a green screen?!
@@bigdaddydons6241 I was the green screen
There wasn't a green screen! He was really there in Paris and the savannah!
To be honest, I remember more songs from this movie than the first, I think they're almost all bops.
Also, I don't think anyone wanted Zira to die, it was her hate that killed her. Kiara tried to save her but she was so full of anger she couldn't take her help. To me it wasn't that she had to die because she wouldn't obey Simba as much as her hate and unwillingness to let go is what made her perish in the end.
I don't think letting go of the cliff face she was clinging to would have helped her much.
Tbh I love the songs from TLK2 more than the first. They're just more edgy and dark and unfortunately I love that
Not to mention that in the original storyboards, Zira CHOOSE to die. She saw that her cause was torn down in front of her and she would never achieve "justice" the way she wanted. Accepting help with Kiara would mean accepting defeat and forgiving Simba, which was the last thing she wanted to do.
hmm, this is a good video, but one odd point is that you seem to keep referring to the lion king 2 as a lesser sequel to the original lion king, despite the fact that the lion king 2 is in fact a better film than the original lion king. odd that you missed this king
Epic lion king opinion beef between Social Media Influencers Jack Saint and Big "Big Joel" Joel.
No. Lion king better .Then lion king 2
Weird indeed
No.
But... Does this means what I think it means?
The Lion King/The Lion King II - facist eugenics video?? 🤔
Waiting for the Jack Saint takedown of how Lion King endorses fascist absolute monarchy
As far as Disney sequels go this one is very close to my heart. You didn't touch on it in the video but the scene where Nuka dies really gets to me- in the original cut his last words to Zira were "finally got your attention, didn't I?" And just....Oof. I felt that.
The weird thing is that Simba's motives should have been straight forward and sympathetic. A violent cult wants to revive a dangerous regime (Scar's regime that caused mass starvation). So it makes total sense that Simba would banish them lol.
I kinda see what you mean? Like the weird part is at the end with the way Simba acted, it contradicted that core rational and made him seem more like a closed minded bigot.
I don't agree with Zira being right like you implied. She 'just wanted to go home'? She wanted to murder Simba and reestablish a tyrannical rule so of course Simba's like 'b**ch no'.
"Nobody was really invested on these things" excuse you, I was absolutely obsessed with this movie, I could not have been more invested.
The Lion Guard series added to the whole ethno state thing, but it does give an interesting explanation. Apparently lions, hyenas, and leopards generations ago agreed to live in separate kingdoms ruled by one of their own in order to prevent fighting over food and overhunting the prey animals. The hyenas, as we know, overhunted their kingdom and Mufasa was basically exercising what he knew as constant law and tradition. It also explains why the Pridelands are called that. They are literally a land for the pride of lions.
Between this film and that series, it does seem that these old traditions are changing. The next generation of hyenas is allowed to visit the pride lands and seems to be on track with not overkilling animals, and if course the outsider lions are integrated into Simba's pride. However, there still was an episode where a leopard had to be politely escorted "back where he came from" by the guard, and the whole notion of why the prey animals put up with being executed is never questioned. I guess we can't all be Kimba. ;)
Had to look up when did the Lion Guard came out. Damn... it's still fresh.
Thanks for the recommendation!
How the hell do hyenas overkill? They’re scavengers. It’s like they want to commit to the food chain thing but not too much.
'separate but equal' 👀
@@Goldarlives IRL hyenas are predators just as much as lions; their reputation as inferior scavengers is not really founded on reality. I suspect the historical pro-lion bias in our culture might be involved.
The real question is how do other predators fit in? There are so many on the savannah giving them all their own land is getting a bit ridiculous. Cheetah and wild dogs off the top of my head as larger, land-based carnivores.
@@HistoricaHungarica Gotta warn you, the Lion Guard goes kind of crazy with the more magical aspects of the franchise. Simba's son has a super-powered roar that can lift rocks, Scar gets resurrected as basically an evil version of Mufasa's talking head, and Rafiki is way more of a witch doctor along with other animal healers... and those are just the scenes I've actually watched!
I personally enjoy the show, but it's a pretty big leap for the fantastical.
So happy someone is finally giving this totally average movie the deep analysis it doesn't really deserve. My siblings and I grew up on Lion King 2 because my overprotective mom thought the original was too traumatic for children and wouldn't let us watch it (even though she was fine with Land Before Time 1??). I didn't see the original Lion King till I was a young adult, and of course I know it's a masterpiece, but my nostalgia goggles for the sequel are too powerful to be stopped.
Same, honestly I think the best way to see lion king 2 is to see it before you see the first lion king.
Lol my mum was the other way around. She did let me watch Land Before Time, but sent me out during the part where Cera and Littlefoot get chased by the TRex and only allowed me back in when they meet Ducky (i.e. I wasn't allowed to watch the only part with plot xD), but Mufasa's death was a-ok. Parents are weird like that sometimes.
Same.I agree with Big Joel in this video about his big points, and themes, but then when he's insulting my sonnngs and the animation, my nostalgia is ready to throw hands lol.
I actually grew up loving this film as well, and actually, really dig a bunch of its songs. Sure, it's nowhere near the original, but amongst the truly terrible Disney direct-to-video sequels, I think it has its merits.
Lol I was allowed to see Lion King and Land Before Time, but I wasn't allowed to watch Lion King 2 😂
I got the idea that Nuka, Kovu's brother, was actually Scar's. Kovu said something in the movie like, "Scar wasn't even his father" and seems jealous. I think the point was that Scar and Zira saw Nuka's weakness and decided to go with another cub instead.
He’s not the movie says that scar father no children
wasnt that kinda obvious
I think this kinda misses the elephant in the room. Zira's evil because of her ideology. She doesn't just want to live in the Pride Lands, she wants Kovu to be Scar 2.0, and the original film wasn't really subtle about Scar's alt-right beliefs.
But then, that makes things weirder because what does that mean for the 'outsiders?' or the children of the outsiders.
Heck, what does that mean for Nuka?
Yeah this.
The Outsiders are framed as bad because they willingly followed Zira and Scar. Zira is a Scar loyalist and general lunatic obsessed with revenge to the point that she groomed her children to become assassins and fantasizes about murder when going to sleep. Scar, in turn, is framed as evil because his rule is one of over-hunting, ecological devastation, and exploiting the world for his own personal betterment and overreaching authority.
You can see this rather explicitly in songs such as "One Of US," which notes that Kovu was raised in a hostile and evil ideology that the pridelanders -assume- inform his actions. Simba letting them back in the pride at the end is him learning that this is wrong, basically.
Obviously there's a lot of questions that can be explored from this set up, and I don't think Lion King 2 does the best job at this, but this (And the ecological themes which run throughout the entire series) seems like the actual point the film was getting at.
These ideas are built on a bit in Lion Guard, where Zira returns and gets a song about how lions are born superior and naturally destined to rule over other animals for their own benefit.
What are Scar's alt-right beliefs?
@@kendrajade6688 killing Mufasa to “own the libs”
@@kendrajade6688 making it legal to say the n word in the Pride Lands
@@videogamenostalgia Do you think slurs are illegal in the USA?
0:26 MEDIOCRE!? the animation is pretty, "My lullaby", "He lives in you" and "One of us" SLAP and the story is.....okay but it's fun okay.
The animation is actually pretty weak overall. Some nice shots here and there, and a relatively better use of color than other DTV sequels at the time, but the animation is still in that lower budget jank territory (as opposed to the post-2000s DTV features when they started trying with the visuals). It just doesn't look outright crap.
The visual for "children and children's children" was spot on.
timestamp?
@@ghostmemeboi 14:26 !
PastelDemon thanks!
I always felt like Simba's actions were dictated by some form of PTSD.
Like, someone he used to trust with his life went and betrayed him in every sense of the word. Killed his father and made HIM feel like he was responsible. Casted him out and tried to assassinate him multiple times.
Honestly, I felt like Simba never really learned to be a king. All he knew was Scar was bad and that he *really* didn't want to end up the way his father did. Betrayed and leaving another power vacuum.
This isn't to justify his actions. Honestly, even as a kid, I saw Simba as the antagonist of his own film. And that the events of the previous movie... were his tragic backstory explaining his actions.
I actually love The Lion King II! The romance is predictable, but in a very cute way; it was heartwarming.
the one thing i would push back against is the idea that kovu’s line about scar being a part of him is just a justification for simbas behavior. it could easily just be read as kovu internalizing his otherization. when a group is otherized so thoroughly, it becomes easy to internalize the tropes that have been pushed onto you. kovu doesn’t need to know scar because he’s been raised to believe scar is a part of him as some kind of original sin, by both the outsiders who knew scar and by the pridelanders who irrationally view him as an extension of scar. the otherization perpetuates itself because when it’s repeated so much it just becomes part of ones internal dialogue. it’s not necessarily an irrational line because the movie is being irrational, it’s an irrational line because the way people internalize otherization is irrational. i might be giving too much credit to the writers but that’s just how i saw it.
Even if that wasn’t the original intent, you nailed exactly what motivates Kovu and all his siblings closer to his age to act a certain way. It only gets worse if your maternal figure is a zealot to those modalities, like Zira was.
I actually watched all three seasons of “The Lion Guard” and in season 1 episode 2 “Lions of the Outlands” tries to fill in certain gaps that Lion King 2 had. Rafiki explains that Zira was a member of the Lionesses that was loyal to Scar. Nuka, Vitani and Kovu have no blood relation to Scar. It’s implied he was their stepfather. Episode 22 takes place some time after Simba’s “We are one” song. Kion was born sometime after that early Kovu and Kiara meeting.
Lion Guard’s first episode also tries to retcon the “all hyenas are bad” theme with the introduction of Jazeere, a hyena who helps Kion and becomes an ally. As well as the series has a variety of villians of various species.
Finally season 3 of the Lion Guard explains where Kion was during the events of Lion King 2. It’s interesting going back to Lion King 2 after watching all 3 seasons of the Lion Guard. If you get a chance, Joel, watch the Lion Guard series it’s surprisingly mature for a Disney Jr. series.
Disney RECENTLY made a Lion King tv series? That actually acknowledged both movies? Wild
Coolman Hahn I mean it is a Disney Jr. show so there are those episodes geared at the younger crowd but many episodes seem to really try to appeal to Lion King fans in terms of expanding the “canon.”
There is a character that does nothing but farts and the main character can just shout any conflict away
it's pretty terrible
The Lion Guard is a genuinely good series, but I think it's unapologetically 'for' its target audience and not adult fans of the franchise. That's why I never really liked the complaints about the badger that farts all the time or the magical roar or whatever, because those are good fun concepts for a kid's show. I don't think I would recommend it to adult fans (especially ones who over-analyze every bit of it because hoo boy there is lots to unpack lol) unless they really really liked The Lion King and/or really really like animals and can tolerate a bit of childishness. It's genuinely a better sequel than The Lion King 2, if ten years or so too late
Callum Moore I agree you have to go into Lion Guard with the mindset it is a show geared at young kids and there are many episodes I sort of check out on. I do give it credit as midway through season 1 they toned back Bunga and his fart jokes. There’s even an episode that kinda takes a dig at Bunga when this group of young animals was “playing Lion Guard”
Bunga: “cool which one of you is me”
Young elephant: “uhh whoever gets picked last”
Ouch
Also there’s still plenty of “Lion King Canon” not answered. Sarabi makes no appearance so I guess she’s dead. Shenzi, Banzai and Ed are also MIA replaced with Janja and his gang with feel like characters from a direct to video Lion King knockoff movie. And I would be remissed to not mention the first episode of season 3 and it’s attempt at a back story for Scar and how he got his Scar and became evil. Let’s just say fan theories were better.
There is an entire animated series that went three seasons that gave Simba and Nala another child that we somehow never saw even in THIS movie and also introduced basically like, the Pride Lands army and put said child in charge of it. And Kiara and Kovu appear as both children and adults. It's absolutely wild how they just slip "new canon" into this universe and nobody stops them.
Simba's actions make more sense when you consider what happened to Mufasa. Mufasa seemed to know Scar was untrustworthy but underestimated his ambitions. Simba overcorrects and banishes anyone with even a whiff of disloyalty.
Thank you! I think he's largely ignoring Simba's trauma.
Joel, you forgot to mention the story changes that were made during production. Not that Zira HAD to die, but rather she kills herself.
11:24 Honestly though, there's an interpretation of this that makes sense, and in a much better movie would've been central to the narrative/theme. Kovu was raised in a group defined by their allegiance to Scar. His entire upbringing he was shaped and inundated by a culture that saw Scar as being a just and desirable ruler. Assuming even the barest admittance of the impact of environment and upbringing on who you are as a person means that Scar is undeniably a part of Kovu.
In a better version of Simba's Pride, this could be a really interesting part of the story. Kovu is raised in a society that praises and promotes Scar's virtues, and has to reconcile his people's hatred of the other lions with his positive experiences with Kiara. Maybe take a big boy step and introduce the notion that Scar wasn't just an evil tyrannical lion and maybe had valid ideas that were warped by his jealousy of Mufasa. Obviously that wasn't true in the original film, but the sequel retcons it to Scar having a freaking %50 approval rating. That is really good, better than any U.S. president has had since Bill Clinton, ESPECIALLY in the midst of a goddamn famine. During which he also instituted welfare for an entire impoverished class/species.
That's probably the biggest disconnect with this film, the fact that it retroactively implies that Scar was actually a really good king who was dealt an incredibly shitty hand and STILL managed to be popular, if divisive.
Your idea about Scar being half approved is actually pretty good. Not to mention shpwing that Mufasa's type of ruling by excluding hyenas wasn't perfect. I always thought that. Unfortunaly, Disney would never do that. They like they villains as color-coded irredeemable people who get "what they deserve" at the end in a dramatic fashion.
"It has some songs which just feel like b side versions of the Lion King songs"
True, but it also has DECEPTIOOON... DISGRAAACE.... EVIL AS PLAIN AS THE SCAR ON HIS FACE! which fuckin slaps
Kovu was/is Scar’s chosen heir, and the Outlanders supported Kovu as Heir Apparent. That’s a pretty rational reason to banish them, even if you don’t agree.
The conflict between Zira’s Pride and Simba’s Pride amounts to a glorified Succession Crisis. Both rival factions are members of the aristocratic class. The conflict ends with a marriage, like many aristocratic rivalries do
I know that you’re trying to take the Racial Prejudice reading here, and that reading isn’t entirely invalid, but the dynamics at work are so different from how racism actually functions that you’re forced to overlook that massive detail just to make the analysis work.
Zira is not a Lumpenprole hero. She’s Viserys Targaryen
"she's viserys targaryen" wow this is spot on.
I don't know if we ever fully understand ziras relationship to scar.
Which Viserys?
@@Whosaskin i think they mean Dany's brother Viserys in GOT. Not king Viserys from HOTD
@@maevereynolds6344 oh ok, yeah she is Viserys
Love this! But to be fair "We Are One" slaps my whole bod
When he said the songs aren't good I felt myself genuinely get mad for a second lmao
Ikr! The songs are bangers and he played the worst one as an example lol
that and "one of us"
Can't forget He Lives In You
Yeah I think it was fair to say that a lot of Disney sequels music is worse than the originals, but Lion King 2 still had the musical to pull on right? Prob saved it a lot.
Fun fact: in the Norwegian dub "outsider" is translated as "foreigner". Which ... yikes
I mean, “outsider” is pretty much a dogwhistle in that it sounds more palatable, but saying stuff like “they don’t like outsiders here” is a big red flag.
There was an anime or something that translated "I will send you to the Netherworld" into "I will send you to the Netherlands."
I feel like the reason why Kovu was made to believe that he's part of Scar is just due to Zira's doctrination and how she makes Kovu out to be, influencing his thinking. In a similar way, of Simba's influence to Kiara is quite heavy to make outsiders seem more separate than they are. I think the message is more so the 'sins of our family' and how parents can give you 'bigoted views'. So to say.
Kovu has that internalized xenophobia (by being Othered as an outsider and Scar lookalike, he sees himself through the eyes of the hegemonic power, Simba's pride), thats why he sees Scar in himself
We need a Cinderella 3 video, gotta get some takes on that time travel.
Cinderella 3 is the best Disney sequel
@Nectar Vam Wrong Anastasia's redemption arc in Cinderella 2 is better than every other Disney princess movie combined
I am HIGHKEY living for this political analysis of the lion king............ the hyenas were right
How were the hyenas right? I haven't finished the video yet.
@@simmonedavis98 i mean they were starving and thinking only of survival when scar recruited them. basically im biased towards them bc i love them
ZIRA was right
The hyenas were right, Scar took advantage of them
THE HYENAS DID NOTHING WRONG!! Heck they're the heroes in the end anyways, why did they have to leave?
I always felt like Simba's behavior in the "right after Scar's defeat" and before the 2nd movie starts is one of a super traumatized, young adult, newly made king. And that's a lot! Even if his divine place is on Pride Rock, he probably made brash decisions to stop those rebel lions, restore the previous kingdom's glory and health, and he still holds them up until the resolution at the end of the 2nd movie. I think he certainly didn't know any better than to exile the rebel lions and their descendants forever, knowing they were likely going to die eventually from the Outsiders' lands being bare. He was probably terrified, and heavily traumatized. He also had tons of responsibilities, whereas in the jungle with Timon and Pumba where he grew up for a while, he didn't have any and maybe did not mature quite enough.
He's also an over-protective father because of his trauma and only sees Kovu as a new Scar, and that's why he really can't see reason/listen to Kiara.
Agreed
As a kid, I really disliked Simba in this film for being “mean” too often.
But now that I’m older, I see the gray area more and understand that Simba wasn’t perfect and wasn’t intended to be. And I appreciate the film a lot more now
“Because on one hand”
*fades in a picture of a hand*
top tier comedy, 10/10
I haven't seen either film in years but I had a crush on Kovu as a kid (first male crush I think) so here is my Simba's Pride deep lore:
I honestly cannot find Simba too out of line for most of the film. Zira and co were staunch Scar loyalists, meaning they were still fans of him after it was revealed he killed Mufasa and tried to kill a cub (Simba). He has a daughter or was about to... he wasnt about to keep such lions around especially when one had a male heir they were already training. I wish this movie had gotten the same polish as the first because I find Zira much more compelling and diabolical honestly, her handling of Nuka (his bitter final words) as well as her specifically raising a kid just to overtake a thrown for her and physically abusing him, and the fact she persuaded lions to her side and ruining their lives instead of just picking up desperate hyenas which would be a much easier to convince. (I also interpret her as having an unrequited love for Scar.. just based on fact kids aren't Scar's and that deleted song where Scar was trying to get Sarabi to be his mate which I think is interesting and sad? She's hellbent on power yet can only orient it around a male lion and his legacy rather than her own. She's vying to put Kovu as prince to put herself, being his mother, as queen.)
I also would argue that while hyenas seem to be the more obvious and consistent choice, I think them being lions was partially done to address the fact they made one dark lion and he was evil and that's not a great look... especially on a film that has a really blatant pro-segregation message. I think Simba's Pride is literally both a money grab and also a "oops we did a shadeism/racism". Simba's Pride directly addresses discrimination based on appearance (they really rub in how he looks like Scar and relate it to him being evil) as well as how the trials of poverty can affect outlook and perspective even on someone who is a good lion at heart like Kovu. I still really like the detail during the stars scene where Kovu says the constellation is of lions fighting over meat with a laugh whereas Kiara's was idk something about elders watching them or something, it concisely showed a sort of relativism based on different upbringings/experiences.
Not sure why music is odd choice, aside from opening and stampede sequence I don't see the first one's edge over the sequel. Not One of Us slaps, I love the African church choir influence.
Also the green screen is fun. It can be distracting in a weird way from some of the more dense sections? But otherwise I think it worked for what you were trying to do.
ok Not One Of Us slaps SO HARD! and also i may be wrong, but wasn’t there also some rlly early deleted work that they showed they may have briefly considered Scar trying to get Nala to be his mate? I can’t remember where I saw it but I’m glad they chose not to include it bc oof that would’ve added layers of creepy/predatory behaviour that i was not ready to unpack as a kid.
@@townfool4682 It's true, the deleted scene or script should still be online.
Nala. The deleted scene had Scar trying to get Nala to be his mate.
The Dynast Queen i just found it! I think they had a song and the audio recorded for it but never the animation. some guy animated it himself true to the original style (over the course of a couple years i think) and it looks so good!
Crush?...
i hope the finale of this series is Joel coming to the conclusion that Cinderella 3 is the greatest Disney movie ever made
Bambi 2 is a runner up for the genuinely good sequels club
God that movie slaps
It is tho
DON'T TAKE ONE MORE STEP DOWN THOSE STAIRS!
That's the only reasonable conclusion to come to.
fun fact: my parents only had the Lion King 2 dvd. So for at least 8years I thought that this was the original Lion King movie and venerated it. I would rewatch it countless times and was IN LOVE with the music. Even now, I still look back at it with a bit of nostalgia, it will always have a special place in my heart.
As I understand it, the musical score for The Lion King 2 was done by Nick Glennie-Smith, who is a frequent collaborator with the first Lion King's composer, Hans Zimmer.
I will always think the lion king two was pretty great, I really enjoy it every time
Agreed
I remember watching both 1 & 2 a lot as a kid, hell I even have them and 1.5 on DVD and Blu Ray
Sure the original will always reign supreme but the sequel and midquel are legit great for being DTV
BIG JOEL! PUT YOUR MASK ON IF YOU’RE OUTSIDE! >:(
Nuka's death from tlk2 will always hit so much harder than Mufasa's death from the first film and I will fight anyone who tries to tell me otherwise
"I'm sorry... Mother... I *tried*..."
@@LauraGrrrr5370 in an earlier uncut version of the film there's another line where Nuka says "At least I finally got your attention." Before dying and that shit fucks me up every time.
Disney really wrote a character who gets himself killed in a desperate attempt to get his abusive and neglectful mothers attention, then gives him that final moment of validation right before he dies in her paws. And they put that shit in the direct to VHS sequel. Mufasa ain't got SHIT on poor Nuka.
Mufasa death isn't even sad to me at all infact I hated the guy
Nuka on the other hand damn that was a punch to the gut when he died
Kovu's voice actor is Haku in Spirited Away and a lot of voices in Skyrim
I've always looked at straight-to-video Disney sequels like studio backed fan fiction.
I think the music in this one is still good, especially "Not One Of Us."
I hope you do Cinderella III. It's honestly really decent, possibly good! They give both Cinderella and The Prince more interesting personalities. Even step-sister Anastasia gets a really cool side story, where someone raised by a crappy parent gets a better role model and decides to be a better person.
yeah I was super into "Not One Of Us" to the point of trying to write out the lyrics in my notebook when I was like 8, and my mum read it and was like "what? who is not one of us?"
But could Kovu have been a hyena and kept his weirdly hot character design? I think not!
Oh, the awkward crush I had
*laughs in e621*
Hyenas are just unique laughing cat dogs so he would've still been hot, YOU ANIMAL RACIST! /s
Hotness is in the eye of the beholder...
Ah, fellow king
i have never seen lion king 2 in full but when i was around 10 and first discovered youtube i became obsessed with the subculture of online artists making fanart for it. i became extremely familiar with a ton of fan characters and self-inserts and watched a bunch of meme compilation videos specifically about lion king 2. i think it considerably changed me as a person.
the lions supporting Scar even tho he’s dead would be like people still supporting Trump even tho he lost...... wait-
This is a very weird and inaccurate comparison.
12:05 I always thought that it was understood that the reason why Kovu views Scar as “a part of me” was because he had been socialized to do so. What with his mom consistently comparing Kovu to Scar with lines like “you have the same blackness in your heart as he did” and the rest of the outsiders looking at him as their savior in the way they viewed Scar.
That line was important because it emphasized all you talked about, the biggest danger of othering. Mainly that regardless of the fact that despite what we the audience and Kiara believed abt Kovu, that he really wasn’t all that bad and certainly not as bad as Scar, he himself felt like he was evil and manipulative just like Scar was. Kovu believed that that “part of him” was there despite the fact that there is no legitimate reason to believe that. Or maybe I am giving this B level trash too much credit😅.
No, you're right, Scar hand picked Kovu as his successor so he was Super Socialized into thinking he should emulate Scar. He was pretty literally a dark Prince to Kiara's princess
You kinda forgot the part where Simba tells Zira "Let it go Zira, It's time to put the past behind us" Basically he extends the invitation to Zira as well to come back to his pride.
I mean tbf it isn't really a good reparation for what he has done. Like, imagine that after all the stuff he has done Trump (or whichever fascist ruler) would be like BUT LET'S JUST PUT THE PAST BEHIND US. Would you just accept it as a reparation? Because I wouldn't, I wound absolutely not trust him or respect that supposed offer.
@@RedWolfhound Good point
You would be pretty stubborn red if you wouldn't at least hear him out, especially if your kid is vouching for them.
Great. Now I want to watch a better version of Lion King 2 where Kovu is a hyena and him and Kiara have a forbidden interspecies romance. Thanks Joel.
I grew up loving this film and although I understand the hokey-ness of it I still put it at the higher tiered Disney sequels that are worth a watch. Honestly I think some of the sequels are more compelling than a lot of the cash grab remakes they’ve been spitting out.
Growing up I always interpreted that the first film was mainly from Simba’s point of view. He wouldn’t have known that there were lions that would choose Scar over the “true” monarchy. I assumed that perhaps there was a fraction of lions that didn’t agree with the division of the hyenas and the lion supremacy. Why would Scar befriend the hyenas in the first place if he didn’t feel some form of sympathy for them? All be it he wanted to be a savior to them rather than a true allie which resulted in him throwing them under the bus and leading to his demise.
But after Simba’s ascension to power I can imagine there were a few Scar sympathizers who didn’t want the Pride lands to return fully to the divide under Mufasa 2.0. They wouldn’t have allied themselves with the hyenas who killed their leader and so they took over their home and the hyenas had to relocate. So that’s why they have Kovu train as their next Scar. He’s stronger than Scar was and will be able to fight Simba. Kovu wasn’t blood related to Scar but he’s been raised to be the next Scar and that’s why he feels like he’s part of him.
As for Simba I actually appreciate how he’s characterized in the sequel. I don’t want him to be put on this holy pedestal that Mufasa was on and at least as a kid I always saw that he was in the wrong. He’d been raised to other those who opposed his viewpoints and the events of the first film definitely solidified in his mind that he was right and they were wrong resulting in him banishing any Scar sympathizers. Also he has trauma with Scar and so it makes sense for him to react out of fear and hatred. It’s not right but it’s good characterization in my eyes. Kiara is the result of being raised in a post war world where there is supposed peace a prosperity. She’s always told that she’s the queen and has to be protected but she isn’t trusted to make her own choices. I think Kiara does have a very important story arc because it’s not just that she sees Kovu as a mate but she sees him and all of the other lions for what they are. Lions just like her and her family. Kiara’s unwavering compassion and love for all is why she’s going to make a great queen. She even tries to save Zera at the end despite everything threatening Zera has done. Kiara is an amazing and powerful character and I don’t think that should be dismissed.
I know I’ve made this film out to be outstanding and I know it isn’t. I can’t stand the Upendie song and I feel like Timon and Pumba were shafted character wise. But at the end of the day I still consider it an important part of the Lion King saga. It was wrapped up with a pretty bow despite all of the complex issues brought up but alas it’s Disney. Can’t expect TOO MUCH especially from a sequel.....
Except Cinderella 3 exists and the writing in that one is just *chefs kiss*
I liked Simba's Pride more than the original movie back when I was a kid. I don't know if this would be the case nowadays though.
Me too! But I think it was probably just because the main character was a girl 🤷♀️
The ‘I just can’t wait to be King’ scene scared me as a kid for some reason so I watched simbas pride and Lion King 1 1/2 repeatedly instead
I think they were both good quality. Part one was more grand and had better animation but I still liked part 2.
same, i loved this movie growing up
And then, there’s the fact that “The Outsider” is an alternate English title for Camus’ “L’etrangier”.
“Today, Mufasa is dead. Maybe yesterday. I don’t know...”
Me as a 20 year old: Looking back this movie wasn't as good as I remember and it's definitely got some weird inconsistent messaging
Me as a 3 year old: Haha lions go roar :)
Originally Zira was supposed to refuse Kiara's help and purposefully let go instead of slipping down the cliff. I think narratively that makes much more sense because she is explicitly refusing to grow more open minded in the way Simba has, and that is her ultimate downfall, not the fact she was "evil." Of course this scene was removed because it was too dark for a kid's movie, but it's on TH-cam.
I like the backgrounds, "hope I don't get eaten by lions... but it *could* very well happen" made me lol
So want we could have had with the Lion king 2 is a romance between Simba's daughter and a hyena. Through their love Simba realises that ethostates are wrong and hyenas shouldn't be in poverty because of their species. That would have great!
..... And they birth a lion/hyena hybrid abomination?
@@horacefairview5349 I mean like tell me that a hyenalion wouldn't be cool
@@screee77cat83 lion + hyena = lyena? hyion?
That would have been fun. I kind of assumed that Kovu would have still been a lion, just raised by hyenas to be a Manchurian candidate of sorts for the hyenas plan to get revenge on Simba and the lions.
@@mae-hy3cm Yes
Ages 4-8 the Lion King 2 was my favourite movie. My best friend and I were Kovu and Kiara stans, and would act out scenes during recess.
Two years later, I’m sad this video didn’t do better. It’s brilliant, and the little kid me who loved this movie appreciates it deeply.
The random overuse of the green screen is really fun to watch. Gives me Kurtis Konner vibes
I actually like Simba's Pride.
The animation isn't as good, the songs are mostly meh and the story is so watered down and basic, but it's not terrible.
Edit: The songs aren't bad tbf. I actually love the opener 'He lives in you'
I absolutely adore Cinderella III: A Twist In Time. Children attach themselves to things and it remains captivating in adult minds. And that's fine. God, it's amazing. Like a trashy novel or a bad fanfic, it wouldn't even matter if it was bad, because it is fun.
"it's garbage but i love it" is VALID and has always been
I enjoy thinking up ways to make it make sense. My main theory is that it's actually all about who gets to be queen and the Outsiders didn't support Scar, they supported his daughter Vitani (granddaughter of the old queen, Scar and Mufasa's mother).
The main reasons why I like TLK2 (though not as much as the rest of the films in the trilogy or other movies) is because the soundtrack is surprisingly AMAZING!
@mrdoe97 We are one is a banger and i will fight anyone who disagrees
This movie is like a fanfic come to life.
Written by a 14 year old for her deviantart account.
Around the time this movie was shown in my country there was a big war and my country was falling apart into smaller countries (Serbia Croatia and Bosnia) and people were hanging each other
So I remember my dad making me pay close attention to the part when Simba realises they are all the same and shouldn't fight in order to make me understand how the war that was happening was stupid and how sad he was for the hatred that existed
A reworking of *_King Lear_* would've made more sense and been more interesting than yet another Romeo and Juliet story, IMHO.
King Lear half or the Gloucester half?
Or Henry V
King Lear (bold)
I always thought it was King John with a Romeo and Juliet happy ending.
You speak nothing but truth. I would've loved to have seen something like that instead of a very crappy, water-downed version of R&J.
"Must provide an authentic [sequel] experience" [Fox & The Hound 2 inconspicuously shuffles out of the room]
I love the scene where Kovu says "we'll run away and start a pride all our own hehehe" he's just straight up suggesting that they fuck lmaaaao
That was literally the only line in this movie that I still quote.
😂😂