We need to talk about the new Monk
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2023
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Okay, there's a new monk from One D&D. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it... fine? Let's find out.
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Here's a sequel to a video from 18 month ago! I knew I'd get around to it one day... Why do I feel like I've said this before?
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For stunning strike I would change it to you can only make a creature attempt a save against your stunning strike once per turn but you can alternatively use the stunning strike to deal just the extra force dmg.
I would return empowered strike to its original form. It is actively weaker.
Few things resist force dmg but nothing resists magical blugening. (Except barbarian)
Edit: Forget to put this in as well. Let open hand monk spend ki to one punch kill stuff at lvl 17.
If a nerf has to be made then limit the CR of creatures that can be instantly killed by the ability. Amy creature whos cr is hight then your monk lvl doesn't instantly die but takes double dmg from the 12d10 dmg.
Sorry, but as soon as they are delivered, they are going to be d8
Don't boss me woman.
I know it doesn't seem like it, but being able to attack with a bonus action when you didn't take the attack option is super useful in a ton of situations.
Yea, I agree, dodge plus attack is really strong. Or a spell, or using an item. Its great
It also fixes a lot of problems with the subclasses that have spells or actions that are not considered an attack.
It super seems like it.... it counts for flurry of blows...
The only thing I worry about is how well that actually balances since that's basically a free ba grapple or shove every turn.
@@duelist301
Which while good, it is better than the stun. Takes two attacks to do instead of one. More checks to achieve similar result and even when it succeeds, it does not eat the entire enemy turn. On top of probably being able to succeed more often.
The carry willing creature isnt lame. You are a monk with like 50 ft mov. It happens when u dash so 100 ft
U can bring ur paladin into mellee range of a far away enemy. Take someone out of range of a spell .
U can be like the flash repositioning ur allies😊
Oh, so like... Building the Flash/Sonic/Quicksilver in DnD has an actual use as a pseudo support?
@@PlagueTheSmol now that u can carry ppl for free yes
I agree, its huge
I have a monk in one of my parties who already does this on allies with the current grappling rules. I agree that this is huge as he doesn't need to spend his entire turn to push someone out of danger. He can do something and then get someone out, which is really cool
He didn't said that's lame. He said it's lame it has to be a willing creature so u can't do it to enemies... Lol
I think people are vastly underestimating the power of the bonus action attack and flurry of blows change. Being able to do them before your attack or without any attack at all opens up a lot of multiclass synergy with action spells, and allows open hand monks to prone their enemy with a flurry and then attack at advantage with their action.
Also, being able to run in and grab an ally out of a pack of enemies is pretty strong. Or carrying a low move speed character or a barbarian into melee range to ensure they are useful.
Toss a halfing barbarian? Nah, Imma carry this bitch!
The idea of a small guy with no visual muscle dragging this massive brickshit house human blender into a battle field is horrifying.
It’s probably actually a bit too strong, not necessarily on the monk itself, but as a 1 level multi class dip.
Polarm master is by far one of the current most overpowered martial feats because of the free bonus action attack, and this just a straight upgrade in every way.
@@hodgepodgesyntaxia2112 I can see where you are coming from, but you do still need to be unarmored and carrying no shield to get the benefits. I can't see this as a very useful dip on many builds, though I am sure it will be useful on some. You need to focus Dexterity and Wisdom like crazy just to have a competent AC if you want to utilize the feature.
@@beastslayer8729 true, you’ll need to account for AC since you can’t wear armor, but that’s not hard to do.
Any racial, class, or subclass option with its own AC feature will circumvent any of the potential restrictions. i.e. a 1 level monk dip will be a straight upgrade to a barbarian.
6:12 I disagree. I think the ability is amazing and a reality strong team mechanic. You can bring your slower tanks with you to the front lines. You can grab allies out of grapples, you can move unconscious allies to safety, you can do so many things with this! It's not supposed to be an offensive ability. It's a team support ability and I love it!
Have to agree, despite "kicking your allies into safety with _'Open Hand Technique'_ push of up to 15 feet _per one_ attack (out of two) granted by _Flurry of Blows"_ (if your character traits allow "kicking your allies for their own good", that is) being arguably funnier in the moment and more memorable down the line: can't kick unconscious teammates and _not_ make them do death saving throws with this, UA rules are undoubtedly _way_ more functional in comparison.
Agreed. It is fantastic as an engagement and escape tool.
We have a flying monk in our party and this is going to be insane
@@daiedalous as a player of an Ascendant Dragon monk, it would pair with Wings Unfurled nicely.
Might want to watch Colby and Treatmonk’s coverage of this. They noticed some things you missed, like the fact that, with 5 attacks, you can set off the new quivering palm twice in one turn if you’re okay burning through your ki/discipline points.
Treantmonk did point out on that video though, the wording does say "when you take the attack action, you can replace ONE of the attacks with this action" . So unfortunately you can only detonate the quivering palm once per turn.
*cough* Action surge *cough*@@ElectrocutedAir
@@ericpheymannicie5044 True! action surge would allow 2 detonations. With the base 5 attacks you could only do it once, but if you action surged to attack 7 times then you could do it twice.
Would it also work for a third time with a hasted action attack? Off the top of my head I think that's another attack action you're taking and therefore another detonation.
and with the 2 lvl fighter dip you could pick up the Nick weapon mastery to make 1 more offhand attack each turn, 6 attacks or 8 on the turn you Action Surge as early as 2 Fighter/10 Monk @@ElectrocutedAir
Oh thats actually fucking terrifying.
A few other details and buffs: Monks now have prof with hand crossbows! Also, Quivering Palm is something you can do every single turn as long as you have the DP. Start your turn with BA Flurry of Blows (get a free dash in) to set up the quivers and immediately detonate them plus get three extra attacks in. Also level 20 monks have a 25 AC without magic items
And a monk's hand crossbow does significantly more damage as you reach higher levels, as it deals a martial arts die instead of it's normal damage.
If you go full Wisdom, that 26 also makes a Monk's 20th level DCs higher than any spellcaster's.
I do gotta say, the hand crossbow feels like a weird outlier, considering none of the simple ranged weapons count as monk weapons, but the hand crossbow does. Maybe don't hang your love for new Monk on that.
@@GlacialScionNah. Level 20 bladesinger can also get 26 AC, although they have to pay for their shiny armor. And let's not talk about artificers, they get that kind of AC as soon as level 14.
@@spammer21 DCs.
Letting stunning strike be attempted once per round per creature could be a good way to buff it without running into the boring gameplay loop. So crowds can still be stopped, but you can't spam it on a boss to burn legendary resistances
I mentioned that on another video too w/the caveat that you could attempt it on the same creature multiple times per round but each successive attempt increased the ki point cost. I also would love the ability to spend additional ki points to bump the saving throw DC.
Most bosses have great con saves anyway and most monks save dcs are low.
As I mentiond in other comment here, I would like to see being able to use one stunning strike on one of your two weapon attacks and then second stunning strike on one of your Flurry of Blows attacks. This way it would still allow you to do some sick and fun plays, while not draining you out of ki points so quickly to compromise the rest of your fight.
Was gonna comment this so I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this way
The fact that the target still takes damage on a successful save too is a great addition. It's like giving the monk a sudo- smite for those enemies your really want to go down quick, without it feeling like you just wasted a ki point and got nothing in return.
You actually can pick up an owlbear and drag it through Spike Growth. And it's a lot easier to do so now, since grappling is based on your dexterity.
Wouldn't you also take damage from the spike growth? It would be better to shove it in and then let the druid thorn whip it through more
@@puuwaikim7384 Not if you walk along the edge of the Spike growth. Remember that even when you are grappling somebody, you are not occupying the same space. So you walk along one side of the boundary and drag the enemy along the other side of the boundary. With Monk's extra movement plus Step of the Wind, you can do a ton of damage that way.
Move it to the edge (Grapple+Drag) then use your open hand Push on a BA attack to move it 15 feet through it, with Cloud of Daggers and a bit of luck you can shove them through multiple times.
Forced movement through Spike Growth doesn't cause damage. People play this spell wrong.
@@raiserofchickensI'm not entirely sure about that take. The wording of the spell doesn't specifiy if a creature has to spend movement to proc its effects like it does in something like Plant Growth. It just says "if a creature moves into the area or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damagefor every 5 feet it travels". Forced movement is still causing the creature to travel a distance.
Of course it's worded strange like all of 5e is and you or your DM are free to rule whichever way. But strictly objective readings of the spell say that everyone is using it as intended.
The thing about the Quivering Palm: the old one was once per long rest; while the new one, though weaker, can be used as long as you have enough KI
having enough ki doesn't seem like it'll be a problem anymore...
This isn't true
Actually Quivering Palm could be used indiscriminately as long as you had the ki points necessary to do it. The only change between One DnD and 5e is it costs more points and its not an instant kill if they fail their save.
I am biased by being primarily a DM but I despised the old stunning strike it just being either "spend a point to do nothing, or make the target miss a turn" that you could spam and try repeatedly was so stupid and it makes the monk unable to do everything really quickly so the monk player stops having fun, and the DM isn't having fun as their big monster got stunned again. This forces the monk to pace themselves, but makes the stunning strike feel like a bigger attack. giving your attack action or flurry of blows the feeling of doing jab jab shoryuken in street fighter.
The dm when the monk manages to stun the boss once after spending all their ki points
I agree, I think it's a great change
The DM will never be able to have fun when status effects are spammed, which is essentially the end goal of every effective character build.
I'm new to DnD and I play monk in my first campaign. The DM is also relatively new as this is his third campaign and in the previous ones he did not have a monk in the game. He gets so annoyed when I land some good stunning strikes. Even more If I land it like 2 rounds in a row on a big monster, or If I manage to stun 3 targets in one turn, even tho I spend like 6-8 ki points in those 2 rounds.
On the other hand I get so annoyed when I spend 5 ki points and don't land a single stun while the monster has like +3 to CON saving throw. And then I die on his the next turn. So to not get so annoyed I just use Stunning strike on the first hit and if it doesn't land I usually don't try again if it's not some big boss monster, then I sometimes try one more. The stun spam just drains you out of ki points in 2 rounds and then you have nothing else to do than just attack, attack, unarmored attack.
Basically the old Stunning strike was super strong if you got lucky but super useless and punishing if you got unlucky. Maybe I would like to see being able to use one stunning strike on one of your two weapon attacks and then second stunning strike on one of your Flurry of Blows attacks. This way it would still allow you to do some sick plays, while not draining you out of ki points so quickly to compromise the rest of your fight.
As someone who hasn’t even gotten to play a single oneshot, i agree. It’s like playing a moba as a support, but your aoe stun has 0 second cooldown until you deal damage with it. No excitement, just throw it out until you get a result. It would be disgustingly cheesy and i should have to build entirely for cooldown reduction and sacrificing other utilities to make it work, such as less efficient survivability.
So. The 3rd level feature of the way of the hand is actually pretty good now. Old Open Hand was limited to one flurry of blows attack proving the effect. Now each landed attack can do separate things. You could knock a bitch prone, then yeet them through a spike growth for instance. Or do a series of run and punches to yeet a fool 45ft away.
What am I missing in the old wording that made it once a turn? "Whenever you hit" sounds like each hit is it's own trigger.
@graethynne I think the important part is that you can now flurry before your attack action. So now you can multiclass and retain the benefit of flurry while also casting a fireball or greenflameblade. I should also mention that you can flurry bonus action, knock them prone and benefit from advantage on your action attacks. Phb wording specified that flurry only happened after you make an attack. Same thing with your bonus action punch. This seems small until you realize you can spam quivering palm now every turn for a ton of damage because you can flurry, activate the palm, burn it with one attack from your action, and continue to lay down the hurt with the rest of your action.
@@graethynne You're correct about that, but there still is a big improvement here thanks to the FoB changes. Because you can FoB before your action, you can now start your turn by knocking the enemy prone, then get the rest of your attacks with advantage. And at 10th level, when you get an extra FoB attack, you can now apply all three effects (or multiple shove attempts) in one turn.
100% agree @@kclubok @Chrisophercerda9191 that the clean bonus action untethered to "after taking the attack action" is awesome and super flexible. I was just confused that by the other post that said you couldn't trigger the Hand riders more than once per turn under the old/current ruleset.
Thank you for addressing this@@graethynne. I had actually misremembered the rulings. My original statement is mute, but the rest is still pretty baller.
6:19 basically use the monk speed to move your allies or save your allies
A neat idea since it gives the Monk's mobility uses beyond "try to sprint back out of melee like a Rogue".
@@HouseLyrander Yeap and it safe there movement
Other minor points i liked about these buffs is just that action economy wise you actually get quite a lot of options which help with ki point economy. For example, in low levels, if i want to dodge but not run away, no need to actually spend ki to use patient defense. Just dodge and bonus action attack. Heck, dodge and flurry of blows for more attacks per turn than a kiless turn, except now youre dodging. Old monk would get 1 attack and need to spend ki to dodge. Significant upgrade. 5th level makes this option less viable...but then its back baby at level 10
And thats just one example.
Monk is actually interesting now. Unarmed strikes aren't forced as they brought back Monk Weapons and several abilities can use them. Monk is one of 2 classes I have never played in 5e, but I wouldn't actually mind playing one if this was the final version. Wonder if we will get a way of the foot subclass? Since their whole opposite thing lol.
I've always ran kicks as unarmed strikes per the normal rules -- it's just a flavor thing lol. You could even run a Monk without arms and simply have them use their legs for Unarmed Strikes and you wouldn't really be violating any rules. Way of the Foot would also be hilarious tho
Silly that they took Weapon Mastery away from them though.
@@trevorwilliams7384 I've also allowed tails to be used for unarmed strikes. Only on Lizardfolk, or something with substantial heft to their tail, because a Tabaxi tail attack would just be disrespect.
Elbows, knees, shoulder tackles, headbutts, they're all really the same.
I also count natural weapons as unarmed strikes, because if you can bite or scratch a dude for more damage you're not gonna punch him, and martial arts were made to fight with whatever your body can use most effectively.
I like how it sets the stage for cool stuff.
@@trevorwilliams7384actually any strike with any body part is an unarmed attack. In fact, you can be bound hands and feet and still unarmed attack by headbutting.
@@adambielen8996 Monks should have gotten Weapon Mastery AND an ability to grant their fists Weapon Mastery effects a la Fighter. That's basically how Rule of Cool's "Legend" system worked and it was great.
Uncanny Metabolism is even nuttier! YOU ALSO HEAL! A once per day Ki restoration and a small heal can go a long way. The heal isn't so great late game, but it's better than using hit die.... too soon?
I think the melee change to Deflect Attacks is HUGE for the Monk’s defenses, especially at lower levels. B/P/S will be the vast majority of the attacks you receive at low levels. Being able to reduce the damage of one attack a turn makes Monks SUPER resilient, even with a middling AC. Falls off a fair bit once multi-attack comes into play, and having multiple creatures attacking the Monk. But it’s still a VERY welcome change imo.
Seems like it falls off too fast. In tier 0, you're doing a little better than a Barbarian's Rage since there's no setup, you have a turn 1 bonus action attack, but it's costing you weaponizing your reaction, so you might pay in damage what you make up for in toughness, and the barb is only tougher if you're getting hit by more than two enemies.
By tier 1, a single monster attacking you has a good chance of being a wash versus a barb, and if multiple attack, the barb's resilience vastly outstrips yours as they have more HP and every non-energy non-magical attack is getting cut in half, compared to your one per round that gets reduced or stopped. Plus, they're threatening attacks of opportunity and can make better use of something like Sentinel.
It's cool, and if your DM goes easy on you and doesn't focus-fire players AND you have other front-liners alongside you it might hold up. But when it really matters, it's not going to be as good in practice as people seem to be imagining.
Yeah, I think it needs playtesting to work out how good it's going to be. I definitely prefer having something cool like this to giving them a d10 hit die
That's why they should be able to reduce multiple attacks incoming damage, like say, a number of attacks equal to their proficiency bonus. It also shouldn't cost ki to make a retaliatory strike.
Mm. Reduce multiple per turn? I'm not sure about that (definitely not that AND more Deflects.) I kinda don't disagree with redirecting attacks for free, but maybe drop the redirect damage to 1 roll of the martial arts die and test it thoroughly. But I particularly think that Patient Defense should be able to be used as a reaction to being hit, imposing disadvantage on the attack roll to try to negate it. That by itself might solve the problem, as it's similar in power defensively to (but a little better than) them having Shield. @@ThePi314Man
A correction: you can kidnap creatures, monks can grapple with their dexterity now (I didn't see you mention that) and they get a lot of attacks they can replace with grapples
It was the first point he made
He wants the kidnapping part to be inherent to the feature, not a separate attack/grapple made before stepping into the wind. I think it'd be pretty cool, as long as the enemy gets a saving throw. Also, he mentioned the grapple and shove with dex part in the first minute
@@V-vision I think that adding a free grapple attempt to Step of the Wind would be OP. Besides, you can get the next best thing with the revised Grappler feat, making that now a must-have choice for monks.
@@kclubok At base I would agree that moving someone around like that without another action might be a lot, but this was the upgraded version of Step of the Wind and it sounds like you don't get it until level 10 and in my mind, you would only be doing it for the movement as you would be for the ally, so the grapple wouldn't be maintained.
@@V-vision Why do you think that you couldn't maintain a grapple while using Step of the Wind to dash? You can in the 2014 PHB, and there is nothing in the UA changes to preclude that.
I think one small thing that should be added to monks is letting them do jumps with dexterity rather than strength. This would be put in with acrobatic movement. A monk would be able to wall run around like a titanfall 2 pilot because there are no rules against long jumping out of a wall run. It would be cool and add some rare utility that would make the class feel so much cooler to play.
They kind of did with the new step of the wind
@@erikwilliams1562 You can Dash for free, but jumping still uses Str, adding the line "You may use your Dex in place of Str for Athletic checks" to Unarmored movement means they can both jump and climb well.
Strength makes sense; Dexterity does not.
Strength is your ability to apply force to your environment, while Dexterity is your ability to interact with your environment in more precise and fluid ways. When you jump, you push off the ground. It doesn't matter if you can lockpick mastercraft locks blindfolded, dance between volleys of arrows, and throw a dart so accurately that you could hit a cherry at 100 paces, if you are physically frail you cannot jump 20 feet vertically into the air without magical assistance.
There is a reason why each skill was paired with their corresponding ability scores, as it provides the game verisimilitude.
@@derekstein6193 I was looking at it from the power fantasy, look at most MA movies a slender martial artist leaping about the scenery propelled by their inner strength, TBF that would be wisdom, but DEX is the primary Monk stat.
@@derekstein6193 nobody cares if it makes sense the game isn't called basements and honda civics
What I would like to see is more customizability options for the monk. Like maybe they can choose from a list of techniques to add to their arsenal like the battle master maneuvers that instead use discipline.
In older editions they had martial arts styles that let you do cool things. I remember making a Panther Style monk in 3.5 that would run around triggering AoOs against myself so I could use the Panther Parry, which let me hit anyone who attempted an attack of opportunity twice before they attacked, with each hit reducing their attack roll by 4. Since this didn't use any action on my part, I could just dash through a whole group of enemies and knock them all out, anime style.
@@Lord_necromancer That sounds really cool! It’s a shame that’s not so anymore.
Laserllama's Alternate Monk does this exact thing, and it's very cool!
Warlocks need a similar ability for their spell slots. once per long rest you regain your spell slots when you roll initiative. To be fair I am used to playing on a Westmarch server where short rests are rare so warlocks are hella knee-capped, but still give my sugar babies more access to spells.
Oof, if short rests are rare, I think those who rely on short rest refresh abilities should have some sort of balance, otherwise they suffer
It'd at the least be a good optional option for campaigns without short rests
Pretty sure one dnd warlock does. Haven't checked in a while.
I agree@@katlicks that would be super nice
@@user-jt1js5mr3f Yeah it has been rough and I fully understand this is a niche scenario still only having 2 slots until level 11 is rough! short rest or not. it's not even like warlock spells are that much more powerful than other casters. My opinion is they should get 3 at level 6 and 4 at 10, then add a 5th at 16 and a 6th at 19/20. I fully understand and respect that this isn't a popular opinion but it is a frustration of mine.
7:25 Isn't damage reduction applied before resistances?
As per current player handbook (unless it has changed in Onednd)
"Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. For example, a creature has resistance to bludgeoning damage and is hit by an attack that deals 25 bludgeoning damage. The creature is also within a magical aura that reduces all damage by 5. The 25 damage is first reduced by 5 and then halved, so the creature takes 10 damage."
I could be wrong, but I think because the defense ability is a reaction to the already resisted damage. I think of it as the aura is a buff that is always active, while the defense is, "Oh, you got hit reduce it now."
You are correct.
The new quivering palm for 'the hand' subclass is not actually that bad (right now) as using the second part of the feature doesn't end the vibrations, so it seems like you can carry on using the second part in subsequent rounds, at least that's how I read it.
That’d be insane if it were true Power Word Kill would have nothing on that
hilarious idea, but it does say that you use the action (or attack) to "end them", so the vibrations stop after you deal the damage rip.
@@DnDShorts ah yes I see that part now, oh well that's a shame thanks for the correction.
If you really don't mind burning through discipline points you could just do the following every: 1 point - flurry of blows, if any hit spend 4 points for quivering palm.
Then attack action hit once spending the 4 points if none of your flurry's hit then sacrifice your second attack to trigger the quivering palm damage.
Rinse and repeat till you run out of discipline points.
Still not as fun as trying to explode your opponent with a single punch but hey it's a tonn of attacks AND the damage spike from quivering palm.
I’m pretty sure you can Quivering Palm every round as long as you have Ki points. There is no wording that limits how many times you can QP, just that it can be active on one creature.
So you hit and start the vibrations then replace an attack to deal the QP damage. Next turn you hit since there are no creatures with QP active at this point you end the effect again.
I'm very happy with this monk. My feedback was to give the monk more options to feel like a monk when they're out of ki and they kind of delivered on that, while also just making ki recovery a bit more accessible. I also personally really like the level 10 feature giving more value to you just being a monk and doing martial arts. That step of the wind bonus makes you a really effective body guard too.
The heightened Step of the Wind doesn't need to have special forced movement for unwilling creatures because it already does that if you grapple them. The Dash will negate the halved movement speed, and you've got lots of monk speed to work with, so you can easily drag a grappled creature wherever you want.
I gotta say you have the best ad reads/skits of like anyone on TH-cam
Crazy strong, you are underestimating these changes.
Love yer work my dude thanks.
Disciple points are a fun slip. I hope "Disc" replaces Ki as a single syllable shorthand version of Discipline Points.
People are already calling them DP. Knowing the 5e base that will probably stick.
Yeah but at level 10 they become TP. :P @@XanderHarris1023
Getting my points every initiative roll is amazing alone. Thanks for the video
Make the deflect attacks work only on ranged and spell attacks, but give monks a reaction for free that works on melee attacks. Then as the monk levels up, give them more than 1 reaction per turn (maybe up to 4 reactions at level 20, not really sure what the number should be without playtesting). It fits thematically with dodging/parrying and then counter striking, and lets functionally be tankier like a martial class should be. Would also open up so interesting multiclass options for classes that get unique reaction options (like warding flare).
Something I always loved from Monk, was some of the flavor things they got like Tongue of Sun and Moon and Timeless Body, but they've removed them, instead of giving them earlier, because level 13 and 15 respectively is way too late for things like that. I don't know, they're removing some of the fun flavor things and not giving us anything in return as well, which is partly why I enjoy playing monk so much.
you took the words out of my mouth
Eh, flavor is free and many monk players have told me these things would barely come up at all. Plus it kinda forces monks to only be the Shaolin archetype besides other possible flavors
Agreed. It's the players job to add flavor.
Yeah, I'm mystified by them removing most of the Monk's flavor ribbons. They now have 100% exclusively combat class features, yet they're still the worst strategy, scaling, and compatibility with their presented role (melee striker.) I suspect they won't actually hold their own in terms of damage in a real game, either.
you were never forced to be only shaolin archetype but the flavour did go that direction at times, but if you wanna be a monk then i at least think being a discount fighter subclass would suck, some of the best classes in my opinion both as a dm and a player are classes that have hooks, that force you to think more in depth about your character, the warlocks, the paladins even the sorcerer to a point, removing flavour for no reason is just cheapening the class. also roleplay abilities are amazing features and the monk now has a grand total of 0, it doesn't have to be the only thing they get at that level but removing all rp features because "they don't ad to combat power" a very 1st edition way of thinking@@jonathanthompson4077
Punch as a bonus action is super good improvement I think
2 things to fix the monk, but they are really close here
1: D10 hit die
2: put the 9th level feature as a lower level feature that only applies when you either dash or step of the wind, and replace level 9 with "your unarmed attacks do an extra d6 force damage", and maybe spend a point to upgrade that to a d8/10/12 as you level up.
Easy fix for the martial-caster divide: all spells are 1 level higher. Cantrips are strictly _prestidigitation_ stuff (but unlimited). Make the old 9th-level spells “legendary” spells only available to gods and arch-mages of legend (NPCs). And mortals who cast 9th-level & legendary spells must save vs death or lose 1 point of wisdom permanently. Result: mad arch-wizards, which explains funhouse dungeons.
I wonder if the Monk's d8 hit dice would be more acceptable if the Monk were given more options to be a glass cannon hit & run striker like the Rogue. This sounds incredulous because Monks are ALREADY extremely mobile, but the insistence that Monk's _need_ a d10 hit dice leads me to believe that people are "optimally" playing the Monk by standing in place and leaving them in harm's way. When I think about a martial artist, I think about a combatant who relies on their reflexes, instincts, and superior technique to simply avoid being hit, rather than simply tanking hits to the face. If Monks had a d10 hit dice, I feel like they'd just become Worse Fighters, rather than fulfilling a niche as a lightweight speed demon that overwhelms foes with the most absurd action economy of all classes.
I totally agree; well said.
I feel like a good thing for monks would be the power to use the dodge action... as a reaction. Maybe give it a limited amount of uses, but still
Read the new document, the monk defense and mobility is hugely fixed
In my experience, the only way to develop good reflexes is by taking hits to the face. For some reason, DnD's game design has always posited that speed equals frailty, and, in actual martial arts training, that could not be further from the truth. Additionaly, before these recent One DnD changes, especially at lower levels, the monk could not constantly hit and run, given their necessity to use qi points for virtually everything. I consider d10 hit die as the most important change for the monk to become on par with other martials, since, inevitably, they need to lock down a position.
you literally can disengage as a bonus action without ki now what
Huh. I may actually try playing a monk with this update
Love your videos! keep it up
My favorite 5E Monk build is Aasimar Sun Soul 17/Zealot Barbarian 3. I’m really hoping Sun Shield gets buffed. I don’t like using my reaction for it. I also think it needs to also burn all enemies within 5 feet at the start of their turn, and when they enter the radius.
Edit: Searing Sunburst should do half damage on a successful save. Since it’s a Con save, it’ll bypass Evasion. 😈
I like asiamr as well
Monk would be an amazing 1- or 2-level dip for fighters, rogues, and bladesinger wizards, just off the top of my head. The unarmed attack as a bonus action at any time is just good action economy. And the healing and restoration of all discipline points at just level 2 whenever you roll initiative is really good. Also can we please get a similar feature for Sorcerers with their Metamagic at a similar level? It would help nail their place as the masters of Metamagic.
Maybe increasing the amount of times you can attempt Stunning Strike to…wisdom times per round. So you can still theoretically down like 5 dudes surrounding you in a flash. Or definitely down one particular dude with an overwhelming series of punches to critical points on the opponent’s body. Let me fulfill my chi blocking fantasy dammit! I wanna KO 3 dudes and save myself and someone else in a turn.
All in all, let monks murder people.
In order to get the unarmed strike as a bonus action you have to meet the martial arts requirements which means you can't wear armor, can't wield a shield, and must be only wielding monk weapons to get the bonus attack unarmed strike.
The Pugilist custom class by Sterling Vermin did many of these kinds of changes to make an unarmed character that’s viable at higher levels and more flexible outside of combat. I’m glad to see that the spirit of ‘monk need fix pls’ is still alive.
They should keep the d8 hit die but whenever you expend a discipline point you should heal a set amount like 2 or 3. That way when your monk starts getting hurt, they can dump the points to have a big turn and heal at the same time.
The step of the wind upgrade is a lot better than you give it credit for because you can take an ally with you to an advantageous position and get them out of danger, which is huge for team support. Also the deflect attacks upgrade is great because by that point a lot more enemies use more varied damage types so it helps monk defense a lot which is needed because d8 hit points.
If you know how to properly play around with Hit And Run tactics on monks, these changes are freaking awesome.
Also the Deflect energy is way better than one would think. Ya might think Martial Arts Dice + DEX + Level isn't much, but even at level 13 being able to reduce income enemy attack on average of 23 points, for no other cost than relfex, is HUGE. Especially since Monks can now take dodge action and then bonus action attack.
And yeah, comboing Deflect Energy with the level 18 ability is also great.
Overall, yeah the monk isn't now as powerful as casters, but it's important to recognize that they are now serious contenders against all of the other martials. They are arguably the best base grapplers and elusive melee fighters in OneD&D right now. That's not only a huge upgrade compared to Playtest 6 Monk, but a huge advancement for WotC as a whole to finally meaningfully buff monks.
It had some issues of it's own, but the martial lag in the high levels is why I really enjoyed what "The Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords" was doing back in 3.5
They were definitely looking at the community for this. In between you saying they’ve used your features and the level 20 feature and deflect attacks from the Bone Wizard’s recently released monk rework, they’re definitely paying attention. Go wizards!
The way I would nerf stunning strike is if an enemy succeeds its saving throw it becomes immune to the ability until your next turn. That way you could still attempt to stun multiple enemies in one turn, without letting you spam it willy nilly
"you can overcome this immunity by spending two discipline points" = "just how badly do you want this?"
"let the monk murder people" yes please. I played a way of open hand monk in my first dnd campaign, in the high lvls I was finally decent at action economy and was basically one punch man it was so fun. Also its way better than power-word kill as that specifies that it has to have 100 or less hp
sadly i dont know if its better, as usually enemies later on have really high con saves
@@leoallison6807 its still better, mathmatically and even just the idea of having the chance to one shot something. It's really good when combined with parties other abilities, such as silvery barbs, bane, etc. plus you could do it more times being only 3 ki points
15 feet is one HELL of a push. That's a hilariously long way to stumble without falling down.
The refresh on discipline points feels like the classic moment of meditation right before action happens.
The amount of changes here are awfully similar to Bone Wizard's reimagination of 5E monk.
Deflect Attack, swapping perfect self for a stat boost, the class feats involving saving throws... It just catches my attention.
I completely agree!
Minor nitpick, but it's "discipline points", not "disciple points"
Thanks, Hermione.
I think the best part of old quivering palm is it awakens a sense of mortality in your enemies when you can tell them you can kill them at any moment if they don’t stand down/surrender/give information/etc like you can use it on a bbeg to force them to stand down or a bandit captain to force information out of them it becomes so versatile! Doing big damage is cool and all but removes in my opinion the core feature of the ability
Hooray! Monks are functional again! One thing I would do for that lv 10 is "willing, unless they cannot defend themself." If they are stun-locked, for example, they physically cannot stop you from yoinking them.
The damage reduction of deflect attacks is actually calculated before resistance, so its additive value is actually halved, not doubled like it would be if calculated after
Nice review of the new stuff, I definitely agree I like the changes to stunning strike. I have often felt this ability is what the rest of the monk is balanced around hence the lackluster class. When I tried to improve the monk I had stunning strike be its own resource instead of using Ki as well, it was a big win. Monk needs more Ki but it doesn't need to spam stunning strike more, I'm happy to see it at once a turn and just hope Wizards will boost the rest of monk now that they don't need to balance around a class getting 4 save or suck effect attempts per turm.
The fact that he rolled a nat 1 at the end of the dice promotion 3:41
we were gonna try for a nat 20 but it was too funny
You can hold your action to attack in the enemis turn with a reaction and use bonus action to attack in your turn as normal, so u can use stunning strike 2 times
It’s interesting to consider how the old subclasses will mesh with this new version of the base class. For instance I think it gives Ascendant Dragon a massive boost. Increased damage dice for breath of the dragon features. Step of the Wind being free now means that Wings Unfurled doesn’t use up two limited pools of resources. A massive win if you are already playing a monk 😊
1:16 my monk fix went even further - ki points are still a thing, but you only ever get (proficiency bonus -1) of them, and they refresh at the start of your turn, every round. Other changes included giving them more reactions, locking Stunning Strike to be used only once per round, giving Flurry of Blows and their attacks extra attack scaling along with the fighter, and locking their martial arts die to d4s because dear lord do these monks attack a *lot.*
Diamond Soul comes online at level 6 now, there’s a new feature where you dump your ki points for the next turn to turn a hit into a miss, and reaction-attacks whenever someone misses you in melee range. I changed the hit die to a d10, let them attack as a bonus action if they don’t use their action to attack, and added the Kensai features to the base monk class kit. A few other things, too, but that’s pretty much it - and my god are they fun to play at the table, since they’re now super good at mage shutdown plays, and they’re just *stupidly* mobile.
I'm hoping they do something with weapon masteries - that would provide a small power boost to all martials, and give some new combat options. Adding that on top of the small buffs the individual martial classes are getting would really help the martial/caster divide.
1:56
Ooh boy, you are underestimating Dodge action.
It's really good
The bonus action unarmed strike and flurry of blows not needing to take the action action anymore is a bigger buff that you might initially think. Now the open hand monk can use flurry of blows to topple an enemy, knocking them prone, and you then use your action to grapple (which you can do with your high DEX now, not STR) to lock them in the prone condition as they can't stand up with 0 movement speed. Then all the other martial characters in your party can attack with advantage. Also on their turn your enemy either has to use their action to attempt break the grapple and stand up ( forfeiting their attacks that turn) or attack at disadvantage from prone and take another round of attacks at advantage.
And Four Elements can use literally any of their features without burning an entire turn and half their Ki on a 1st level spell
Okay, here is my monk (calling it tempest blade)
1)Retaliation: You get 1 single retaliation/level IN A SINGLE TURN and can use it on 1 enemy at a time. A retaliation cancels enemy attacks if greater and then does damage if better than their AC. So on lvl 3 you can retaliate to 3 different foes. All of these are counted as attacks
2) 2handed grandmaster: If can do 2 unarmed strieks on lvl1 or 2 attacks instead of 1 attack and a bonus action with all profiecy and stat bonuses.
3)Full contact Any attack that passes AC by 5 renders humanoid enemy into full contact. You get advantage on rolling your next attack. The second success with the margin of 7 tumbles them so you can sit on their chest giving them a disadvantage dice. Lucky feat cancelled on this one.
4) Unarmed full contact: while having no weapons and in full contact you get to retaliate to all enemy attacks.
0) No chi points sadly.
LVL2----you get to push opponents while hitting them by 5 feet if they are standing and are of normal size. Any weapon you use can scale with agility!
LVL3----Retaliation goes against ranged fire
LVL 4 --- ability, prof score incr, unarmed does d6
LVL 5 --- Combat dance: YOu move across the battlefield and don't stop. You don't get hindered while between enemy. It is a skill check both you and enemy take. If the enemy fails, it can only do a reaction to you even if they moved to your character's position. Only the enemy you ended next to can deal all their melee attacks
LVL 6 -- You can make weapons, fist count like +1 items. 3 attacks/round
LVL7:.----- You can deflect magical projectiles with retaliation.
LVL 8: -----ability incr, d8 damage. You can retaliate 2x to an enemy as you move
LVL9: ---- Difficult terrain, footing, acrobatics don't effect your combat. If your hands are occupied, you kick for unarmed damage.
LVL10 ---- Unlimited retaliation to single enemy that is not in full contact
LVL 11 ---- 4 attacks/round, DMG: d8, +10feet move within combat....
Kind of whatcky but this is first few levels...
I think the best thing to improve this version is replace damage on save against stunning strike with a temporary stun until end of turn that doesn't auto break concentration. It'll still improve damage via advantage but also prevent oa's allowing you to skirmish without sacking attacks to disengage.
Holy shit this changes actually sound good. I've always hated Stunning Strike and thought every Monk should also have a thing like Mercy where they do MA die + modifier.
Empty Body is still nerfed, and Unarmored Movement / Diamond Soul is still late. No more immunity to poison (Purity of Body), and no talking to creatures with your ki (Tongue of the Sun and Moon).
Having watched D4's video I feel like this really sells this version of the Monk short. I'm with you on the d10 hit die but this is wayyyy better than you're giving it credit for.
Here’s a way in which limiting stunning strike would work.
1. Make it go through if the attack goes through.
2. You must declare stunning strike before the attack roll.
You hit, you get an automatic stun.
I mean new Quivering Palm can do over 100 damage on average in conjunction with flurry of blows, and can be done twice per fight in between short rests. So we're talking 200-300 damage in 4 turns per fight every single fight essentially. It's still good and generally outperforms Power Word Kill that can be done once per day and requires enemy health to be less than 100
In regards to the quivering palm feature of the hand warrior: it is stated that "whenever you inflict physical damage you can apply these vibrations" which means you can apply them for every attack, I think? If so, it's still very much awesome.
Stunning Strike also ends at the start of your turn instead of at the end, which means you are less likely to benefit from stunning as much as before.
*9:51 it's 10d12 force damage, as shown, not 12d10, as said. I suspect this was put together quick, as the Discipline points keep getting said as "disciple" on the front and back end of this. Keep making these great videos, but please give yourself some time to review. 💜
Haven't seen anyone talk about this, but Deflect Attack doesn't specify weapon attacks. At level 13, Monks can deflect Chromatic Orbs, Firebolts and similar attacks from spellcasters.
As others have discussed, the ability to bonus action attack before (or without) taking the attack the action is really useful. Especially with Quivering Palm. Set it up and trigger it in the same round. Technically you could do it with the Attack Action alone, as long as you don't miss.
As for the dragging an enemy with Step of the Wind, you don't need it since you push them around with flurry of blows. I mean if 45 feet isn't enough push, (three flurry of blows) then I guess you can shove them the rest of the way?
Not mentioned - the new level 11 Hand Subclass feature is actually useful (as opposed to the 2014 feature which was, quite probably the worst level 11 subclass feature in the entire game. Possibly the worst feature in the game full stop (excluding Ribbons of course, but some of them are probably better too).
7:26 RAW, you first reduce damage, and then apply Resistance at the end.
Also to note... Monks are allowed to take Weapon Master feat, which is a STR/DEX choice half-feat giving access to Weapon Mastery.
Giving a Point Buy Monk that starts at 17 with the right stats from Background (2 DEX / 1 WIS) who takes this feat at level 4 rounding to 18, they can then max out DEX at 20 with ASI boost at level 8.
A Monk can then pick on their way some Light weapons with the Nick property (Dagger, Scimitar, Club, Handaxe, Light Hammer, etc.) through Weapon Master(y), letting them do another attack as part of the attack action, then at level 10 with Heightened discipline they can do 3 martial arts with flurry of blows.
This is 6 attacks in a single turn. Quite nice if I dare say.
he rolled a nat 1 during the dice promo at the end. safe to say it failed horribly and you tripped on yourself and ate the d20, then causing a brain tumor. i digress, this was a good video and love that monks are getting an update, as im playing one rn
You forgot to mention the re-introduction to monk weapons in Martial Arts
Actually, I think the changes at level 2 make a monk dip very attractive for martials. You get the same mobility boost that rogues get with cunning action, and you also have the ability to give everything disadvantage to hit you, all the time, forever. It's basically a defensive version of Reckless Attack from a Barbarian dip.
WotC didn't need to change the Hit Die to d10 because they gave everyone a free first level feat and for Monks Tough seems like the obvious choice. I've always thought Monk Armor Class was exactly where it needs to be. If its low compared to a class like fighter, it's because the DM is making it so by giving stronger armor too early in the campaign. AC for Monk should be 16 (Dex 16/Wis 16 = +3/+3) at level 1, which is equivalent to Chainmail; 17 at level 4 equivalent to Splint mail, 18 at level 8 equivalent to Platemail. As you're approaching tier 3, Rare magic items should be available and the Monk should get Bracers of Defense (I'd only give 1 such item to each player prior to tier 3) so AC is 20. At level 12, AC should 21 and at level 16 AC 22. With 2024 5E, level 19 gives you AC 23 and at level 20 AC is 27. That seems really good.
Not really a fair comparison in my opinion, the fighter is limited to that amount of AC if they aren't wielding a shield, in which case they are probably wielding a two-handed weapon which has a bigger dice than the monk. So the two-handed fighter has comparable AC to the monk, better damage AND better HP. A fighter which wields a longsword and a shield will be better than the monk at all three of those things at lower levels.
@@-guy-2686 You're ignoring all the things that Monks get that Fighter's don't. Maneuverability, Speed, defense boosts from Step of the Wind and Patient defense; They have a high Wisdom so their Wisdom saving throws will be better than fighters; Evasion; Stunning Strike (tho I'd say that action surge more than cancels this out); ending charm and frightened conditions; and eventually proficiency in all saving throws. IMO Fighters are supposed to do more damage than monks because of all these other advantages that monks get. The system would be broken if they didn't.
@@fortunatus1 Well yes but actually no, monks get most of their power from their main class features, while fighters derive most of their variability from their subclass and feats (which they get 2 extra, monk gets the same as everybody else). Sure the Fighter looks bare bones compared to the monk when you don't take Battlemaster's maneuvers, arcane archers arrows or eldritch knight spells. The Fighter is just overall a better class, can the monk do some things the fighter can't? Yes, but barely any. Can the Fighter do things the monk will only ever be able to do worse? Absolutely. But at the end of the day I think this whole discussion is kind of scuffed, the main problem with d&d martials is that they lack texture, high level casters can unravel the universe with spells like wish, meteor swarm and true polymorph, high level martials get one extra attack (yay), it's a shame wizards is moving away from interesting abilities such as old Quivering Palm and instead just giving you more damage.
Using deflect attacks on anything not just bludgeoning piercing or slashing means you can deflect spells which is awesome.
Nice to know they got buffed...sort of (I'll admit Monks are my least favorite class so I was just waiting for the youtube videos to analyze this playtest version.)
Also a minor thing that was changed in this Playtest was how the Heavy weapon property worked, now ANYONE can wield a heavy weapon without disadvantage if their Strength/Dexterity is higher than a 13, meaning I can finally make my Greatsword-wielding Barbarian Gnome!
Rest in peace Quivering Palm. Gone but not forgotten.
Well Mix and Match time 😂 old quivering palm stays.
I like some of the changes to deflect attack, but surprised you didn't mention the change of the counterattack to a saving throw instead of an attack roll. I prefer the attack roll...
Love how you do ads. Doing a bit before hand helps.
I think with Quivering Palm what they should do is make it do the new effect when then target is over half health, but when the target is at half or below, it can insta kill them on a failed save.
I think the reason they couldn’t let quivering palm insta kill is because now you can spam it every turn while get 4 attacks off which is kinda crazy nova but if you could still insta kill then every enemy meant to be strong would have to have legendary resistance.
I was working on a rework of Monk for my games, and this is all very similar to what I had.
the subtle change in stunning strike FROM lasting to the end of your next turn TO lasting to the beginning of your next turn...
LVL 17 monk:
1st attack (mark with Quiver AND Stunning Strike [nothing says you can't do both, right?]), 2nd attack (activate 10d12 damage), bonus action 3 punches AND Dodge AND Disengage
Monk is fine.
7:00 Two separate ideas to replace this…
Master of Deflection. You get 2 Reactions instead of 1. If neither reaction is Deflect Attack, the second one costs 2 Ki Points.
Stunning Flurry. You can use Flurry of Blows more than once per turn. Also, you can spend 2 Ki Points to make the target roll with disadvantage.
One thing the monk should have is the mobile feat built in to the class. You hit something, it can't take an opporunity attack against you. Yeah you can now take disengage as a free BA, but you give up an attack or a chance to flurry.
you could just write:
patchnotes:
- unarmed attacks fixed (does more damage)
- ki points fixed (some abilities cost less ki but can be enhansed by using them)
- regaining ki points fixed (you get all back in an combat. once per rest)
- stunning strike fixed (once per turn usable, does damage extra damage if target succeeds save)
- flurry of blows fixed (+1 attack if you reach lvl 10 and is useable as a bonusaction without requirements)
- grable fixed (uses dex save)
- reflect attack overhauled (now works on meele if its a base damage type. on later lvl it works on any damage. still needs to reduce damage to 0)
- lvl 20 ability is now similar to the barbarians lvl 20 ability, just with dex.
thats bare minimum work. its something everyone can come up in 10 minutes if you told them to do something about monk. maybe even less.
btw they announsed 5e on 2012. brought that edition out on year 2014 and 2023 they finally got rid of most misconseptions monks had.
it took them 9 years to make monk not a terrible class thats completely usless without any homebrew!
and then its just juggling numbers and one overhaul.
what a joke.
even if you include the changes between then and now can be reduced to less then one page.
Been waiting all day for this! 😂
This seems like something that would just never die
I love all of this! I always felt that the biggest issue with the class was that, while stunning strike was very powerful (although resource expensive), everything else was just kinda meh and/or niche and situational. Rebalancing stunning strike and boosting the other abilities is perfect imo.
Also, small detail that many might miss: Stunning strike may be only once per turn, but it isn't only once *per round*.
Meaning that if you get the chance to attack on another creature's turn, like with deflect attack or the fighter's commander's strike maneuvre or even just an opportunity attack, that attack can be a stun chance to.
Warforged +1AC
3 Ranger/Hunter
- Mariner Fighting Style -1AC
- Horde Breaker extra attack
- Hunter's mark for all those hits
- all the other flavor
17 Astral Self Monk carrying a staff
Add Menacing(benefits from Visage).
Add Crusher for all of those fists.
Add Tunnel Fighter/Polearm Mastery/Sentinel for all of that being extra.
Action = 3 Attacks
Bonus = 3 Attacks or Tunnel Fighter
Horde Breaker = +1 Attack
Hunter's Mark = Uh oh...
I'd give the monk in the level 7-9 range a magic missile like ability that turns the flurry of blows into force projectiles that uses the HtH die and can hit multiple targets for no extra cost.
Take a shot for every time he says "Disciple Points", lol.