Hi Marc I have ordered one because of your reviews, I have to say your one of the best presenters I have ever watched, brilliant delivery of all the information you need .. Thanks Jonathan lewis UK
Hi Marc great info. I would like to get your opion on using two Rocket R Nine Ones for my coffee shop. I prepare about 300 cups a day. Will the machines be reliable and keep up??? Thanks so much. Cheers
Hi Marc! Thanks for making this review. I've been watching your reviews on the r58 for a while so i decided to buy one. I received my Cinquantotto around a month ago as i was deliberating between this and a protec 700. All i can say is that I'm very happy with the result. It does take around 20-30 mins to reach perfect temp but as its great at making lovely espressos I'm not complaining.
Thanks Mark ... I know virtually nothing about making coffee - despite the fact that I've been having a coffee for breakfast for over thirty years now. Also thanks to you I am now $8000 poorer! Just grabbed a La Marzocco Linea Mini and a Niche Zero grinder Jack leveller etc, etc. Once this kit is well ensconced on my kitchen counter, I'll be making my way through another swag of your most-excellent vids. Thanks for the new hobby! - JBW: Australia
Hi Marc! I'm so glad you put this review out. I've been really torn between purchasing the new Cinquantotto and the Bezzera Duo with the E61 group. I am from New Zealand and these two machines are at the same price point here. I have talked to a couple of shops who sell these but each only sells one brand or the other so naturally they say the brand they sell is better quality and I'm not really getting an honest/unbiased opinion. Since you guys deal with both Rocket and Bezzera I thought you would have some interesting/ more levelled opinions on this. I like the look of the Bezzera a little more but the new design of the Cinquantotto is definitely growing on me as time goes on. Downside of the Bezzera for me is no gauges on the front and everything being through the touch screen. At the price point I could even get the ECM Synchronika which I know would be the smartest buy but I just prefer the looks of the other 2 a bit more and the fact they have built in on/off timers. Apologies for the long message but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks, Tom
Hi Tom, No problem on the long message. Helps to have your details. The Duo IMO is the most complex of the machines under the hood - lot's of extra electronics with all info terminating at a single touch display. I'm a fan of K.I.S.S. design and the Synchronika wins on that point and overall quality of construction and components. If you prefer the look of the Cinquantotto I'd go that way. Components are not that far apart to overcome a visual preference. I will mention that the Synchronika does have programmable standby time but not automatic turn on. Also has best in class steam power of up to 2 bar compared to max of 1.4 in the Cinquantotto. Marc
Hello Marc. Regarding you comment about page 25 of the manual and temperature settings. I'm still unclear if you meant the manual info was incorrect or not depending on what page 25 looked like. The audio was not clear so I did not quite catch what you said or meant. You mentioned you were sent an updated PDF file. Can you make a link available for the PDF version of the manual with the corrected page 25? I went to the rocket website and the their PDF file was the same, if not older. Thanks
Cheers Marc, great video and details. Since I do have the Cinquantotto your video really helps with the operation of the machine. I do have a question regarding pre infusion. My Cinquantotto gives me a pre infusion time of 3 seconds when using Lavazza Gran Crema Barista beans ground at the #1 setting on a Mignon Specialita grinder. (18 gram dose, 20 seconds with a 50 gram yield) Is the 3 second pre infusion acceptable in this case? Thanks.
Hi T, thanks for the question. New feet cannot be shortened. Old style nozzle like feet mount on a single stud. New ones have 2 bolts so cannot be exchanged without some serious hacking. Marc
Thank you Marc for your comprehensive review. I have the previous version which is now 18 months young. I have lost count of the times friends have complemented the looks of the R58 and the espressos. The only issue I have had is that the chrome plating on the portafilter did not last very long and the brass is clearly visible inside. I replaced it with a Pesado which so far is proving more durable. You mention that the internals are essentially the same which leads me to consider what would be involved in replacing my controller with the newer device ? To their credit, Rocket provides comprehensive support for their machines with a complete parts list available even here in Australia. Are the only differences perhaps the control box, cabling and interface ? BTW I believe the new model has a USB while my R58 V2 has the serial port. (At 3:25 on your review) with thanx, Marcel
Hi Marcel, Thank you for the comment and question. I used a generic term serial cable for the USB connection. Serial cable happens to be what Rocket calls it in their manual. Sorry to hear about the plating on your PF. I have seen that happen on PFs from many manufacturers after extended use. I have no info on replacing the controller old for new style. I'm guessing it would be possible as most anything is with enough $$, effort and skill. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Marc, greatly appreciate your advice. The Rocket continues to produce sensational espressos, lattes and during our Melbourne lockdown evening correttos. It is a joy to use. Your earlier demonstrations with Todd informed our decision to by the R58. ciao, Marcel
Hi Alan, Thanks for the kind comment and question. Maybe - with dual boiler machines it's usually not needed. You can check by looking for flash boiling water coming from the group without the PF attached after its been sitting for a long period. Ambient temps and keeping your PF in the group when not in use can change things. Marc
Hey Marc hello, I would like to upgrade my coffee machine set up having now a rancilio Silvia. I was considering to buy a Lelit Bianca V3 or maybe a Rocket R cinquatotto. What you think about these two machines? What should I go for? Thank you for your help
Hey MTD, They both are very capable machines. Having been inside both the Rocket is a little more refined in the finishing details. If you're down to a dual boiler machine I'd also have a look at the Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. Both are very well built. They are essentially identical internally and like the Lelit have higher pressure available in the steam boiler as compared to the Rocket. The ECM has a higher level of finishing detail with a tapered group head, angled portafilter joystick operated valves and faceted E61 exhaust port. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage hi MARC Pls teaching me how to change the boiler's temperature upto 103c? from the PID offset . My ROCKET R58 Cinquantotto only can upto 100c but I want to higher it a little bit more. Just like the oven can change the temperature by adjusting electric resistance; choice 150C 180C or 250C . Thank you in advance if you could share your knowledge. or experience.
Hi SH, Thanks for the question. In general, crema production is more a function of the coffee used and proper grind size than the machine. The Pro 700 is available with flow control of the E61 group which gives you more options when pulling a shot that could help with crema. For milk frothing, which is key to pouring good latte art, the Pro 700 is capable of running at best in class 2 bar of steam pressure. The Cinquantotto runs at ~1.4 bar max. More pressure gets you a more vigorous roll in the pitcher. In the right hands, more pressure makes it easier to create the silky milk texture needed for pouring latte art. Hope that helps! Marc
Eventually we can get the ECM Flow control Kit that you selling with the ECM and Profitec machines? I’m looking put the FC on the R58 and the couples that I see it have the black display on the gauge, you’re the only ones that carry on white display gauge with ECM, I think it matches better with the others gauges on the Rocket
Hi SA, So 14g is the traditional Italian dose but I'm, usually in the 16-19g range. Depends on the coffee used but you can usually fit 16g in the stock double basket. For larger doses I move up to aftermarket precision filter baskets like this 20g model: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/pro-brewing/products/baristapro-20g-precision-portafilter-basket Marc
Thanks for the review! I just bought an R58 and my pucks keep coming out burnt at the bottom, not overly burnt but around the bottom edge. I had my PID set to default temps. Is 5 seconds of flushing enough or should I be doing more?
Hi GGV, You're welcome and thanks for the question. 5 seconds should be more than enough. If you feel your puck is burnt I'd lower the temp a couple of degrees and compare flavor. Marc
Hi Michael, Yes you can set the most recent Rocket Cinquanttoto (R58) to turn on automatically. The Synchronika does not have that feature. You can always get that function with an appliance timer. Get a wifi timer and turn it on/off from anywhere. Personally I prefer the Synchonika with it's higher steam pressure and more refined finishing details. Also, it's a little less complex under the hood and I appreciate the greater reliability inherent K.I.S.S. design. Synchronika can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed the Cinquanttoto cannot. Of course you can go with flow control on the Synchronika and do pre-infusion and a whole latte more regardless if running plumbed or from reservoir. Marc
Does it have pre-infusion? Would the ECM Synchronika's Flow Control upgrade work with the Cinquantotto (to manually emulate pre-infusion)? Great review, thanks again Mark!
Hi ff, Thanks for the question and comment. It has standard E61 pre-infusion which is better thought of as pre-wetting IMO as no real pressure behind it. We have tested the flow control in E61 groups on other manufacturers machines at it works fine in Rocket's. Marc
Hi MrS, Thanks for the question. Dual boiler machine like the R Cinquantotto or considered top of the line for home use. A similar machine is the ECM Synchonika: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control The ECM is available with flow control of the E61 group which opens up more possibilities. And the Synchronika has best in class steaming power. The flow control is a bit beyond entry -level but you could make use of it down the road to get more out of specialty coffees. If you want to go super high-end for home the Dalla Corte Mina is about as good as it gets but it's about 2.5x the price of the Rocket or ECM: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v Marc
Hi Lars, You are welcome and thank you for the comment. These feet have 2 bolts connecting them. Other Rocket feet I'm familiar with have a single bolts. Not that something couldn't be hacked but it's a different setup. Marc
Hi Marc, The pid controller on my cinquantotto sometimes reamains stuck when in calendar mode(can be seen also by the clock in the display). The machine turns on and off to the setted time but the displays reamains unresponsive until I turn the machine on/off manually… Any advice here? Thanks!
Hi, do you have to leave the screen attached for the on timing to work. (I'm totally expecting yes, no problem that being the case). A on/off programmable timer is needed for all top home machines. It's not a cafe where your arriving an hour ahead setting up shop. All machines should come with a proper tamper (Tick here) , and a Bottomless portafilter instead of Single. For the bottomless to work well though they would need to upgrade the supplied Shower screen and basket, the closed portafilters hide a few sins. For the top end machines the extra RRP for those would make little difference. Providing on brand quality tamper leads to people staying on brand for other accessories.
Hi Adam, thanks a whole latte for sharing your thoughts! The controller does not need to be connected for timing to operate. That’s according to Rocket and something I have not personally tested but the memory is in the machine not the display. I and our product specialist have been advocating for inclusion of bottomless PF’s with manufacturers. IMO single spouts are rarely used so why not replace with a naked one! I did a very non-scientific poll in a video awhile back and there was a huge preference for naked over singles. Marc
I have tested this with my new Cinquantotto (from WLL) and it works just fine. The machine starts up and goes to sleep on the set schedule even without the display connected. However!, the schedule does not seem to work if you have Eco mode enabled. It looks like if Eco gets enabled, it disables Calendar mode and vise versa. Not really an issue though, since I startup mine at 6am and have it sleep at 9am
L M Hi thanks so much for adding details of your experience and your patronage. I love a community that takes the time to help and advise others. So awesome! 👏 Marc
Hi marc :) sorry I'm asking something about bezzera bz10 Can you change the OPV? what number with blind basket you suggest to get actual 9bar at brew head because i heard vibration pump machines like bz10 need to be at least fixed at 10 bar with blind basket to get 9 bar or less in brew head idk if that number is accurate so i ask this from you Also is the OPV on bz10 "made for adjusting" ? Because i heard in old models you should buy bezzera 9bar opv adjustable kit and swap it with the original opv on your machine because your original one doesn't made for adjusting and if you unscrew it it might leak or splash water out and damage your machine What do you think marc? Thank
HI, great review. I'm considering purchasing the R Cinquantotto but I have very limited space in which to put it. Can you tell me the depth of the feet? That is, the measurement between the front of the front feet & the back of the back feet? Thank you.
Hello .. When the technician opened the machine to replace a faulty extraction pressure gauge, I noticed that some of the tubes were not copper and also the extraction boilers and the steam boilers looked like aluminum or stainless in this version.
Hi MAA, Internal plumbing that is not copper maybe used in areas where water is not under pressure. Boilers may be stainless steel but are not aluminum. Marc
Just got my Cinquantotto two weeks now. The manual is not very good at explaining the controller calendar function . For example, once the calendar and times are set for wake up now what? The machine is still on and won't turn off. Obviously if I switch off the machine timer will not work. I must be doing something wrong but the manual is of no help. Can you please help? Thanks.
Hi AG, Thanks for the question. So you've set on and off times but the machine does not turn off at the specified time? You may need to power cycle the machine (turn it off for 10 seconds then turn back on) for the programmed times to take affect. Marc
Hi Marc, I recently purchased the Cinquantotto and loving it. One very strange issue I have is that when I pull a shot with the single PF, and the shot clock on the machine surpasses 25 seconds, the clock continues to run on the machine even after I stop pulling a shot (the clock on the digital display does stop). It doesn't happen when: 1. Using the double PF 2. If the steamer is working in tandem with pulling a shot. Have you run into something like this and if yes, how is it fixed ? Great review, Dan
Hi Dan, Thanks for the comment and question. That hast happened. Not sure why but in my case was not related to the PF used - I have never used the single PF on the Cinquantotto and pulled well in excess of 100 shots on the machine. My resolution was to power cycle the machine. Marc
Hi Marc what is you recommendations on choosing between Rancilio Silvia Pro Vs Rocket R Chinqantto can you please suggest about choosing amongst both the machines or make a detailed comparison Video! Looking forward for your opinion.. Thanks
Hi AV, Thanks for the request. Might be a while before I can do a video directly comparing the Silvia Pro and Cinquantotto. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of those machines with current pricing: /pages/compare?products=NDYzOTU2NDIzNDgwNiw0NzIzOTg5NDEzOTQy There's a very large price difference between the 2 machines! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage As rightly mentioned by you Marc that there is a very large price difference between both the Machines All I simply wana know from you is that is there a competence deficit in the Silvia Pro because of it being a more economical machine when compared to Rocket R Chinqantto?
I wouldn't say there is a competence deficit. The Cinquantotto has a lot more detail in the finish work and it's a traditional E61 dual boiler design. Some other key differences: The Cinquantotto is plumbable with rotary pump, has more control in the outboard touchscreen and high quality materials used in casework. The Silvia Pro is more utilitarian in design - not as pretty as the Rocket, uses vibration pumps, not plumbable and uses a boiler over group design rather than E61. Marc
R58 Cinquantotto vs. ECM Synchronika, which would you say is best for making the fluffiest so-called dry cappuccinos (cappucinos with lots of foam, less liquid milk)? I'm primarily wondering if the Synchronika heats milk too quickly to inject sufficient air before it reaches temperature. Not sure if my taste is dated or something, but would love to see someone make cappuccinos with extra-fluffy, velvety thick luxurious foam, rather than more watery-looking lattes! Great review, though. Thank you!
“Hi ff, Your taste is not dated! If you like a very dry foam that's what you should have. I do think in general cappuccinos have gone to more of a caffe late style milk froth capable of pouring art - baristas want to show of their skills! While the Synchronika has best in class steaming power you can turn down the service boiler temp for less vigorous steam if you are feeling overpowered. That said, getting that foam is more about technique and tip position relative to the surface of the milk. Marc
My New R58 brew Temp only goes to 100 degrees Celsius , Factory settings say it goes to 105 ? Also does it work with the IPhone App as well? and can I program different profiles as in A B or C with this new machine ..Thx you Marc Dean Philpott in Nanaimo BC Canada
Hi Dean, Thanks for the question! I've been through Nanaimo many times on my way to my uncle's remote cabin on Barkley Sound near Bamfield BC. Last trip was a couple of years ago in April during a very dry and unusually warm stretch of weather after attending the SCA show in Seattle. Logging road from Port Alberni to Bamfield was crazy dusty! I love Vancouver Island! It's a true jewel and the people their are about the friendliest I've ever run into! My wife wants to move to VI, BC. But on to your machine. Not sure where you saw 105C as max temp for brew boiler. I do recall running into some misprinted Rocket manuals a few months ago. Rocket used to use the actual in boiler temp for setting of brew temp. So one would use a chart in the manual to reference a desired brew temp and get the required boiler temp for that. With the Cinquantotto they changed to using an offset. That means the PID calculates the brew temp for you so you set the actual temperature you want at the brew head and no longer use the chart. You definitely would not want to pull shots at 105C. That's far outside espresso/coffee brew temp range of 91-96C (195-205F). I'd start with brew temp set at 94C and go +1 for lighter roast and -1 for darker. As far as I know there is no App integration on the Cinquantotto. Sounds like you might be looking at an App for their R Nine One machine which has pressure profiling capabilities? Hope you are well, Marc
Hi WJ, Yes there is! Saw that last night. Thankfully I say the correct temp and it’s right up higher on the page. Gotta have a word with my editor. Crap, that’s me! I am imperfect. Marc
Hi eliran, Thanks for the question. They are both quality machines and equally capable of making excellent espresso. "Better" is something of a subjective judgement based on what's important to you. What the Pro 700 has that the Cinquantotto does not: Best in class steaming power - near 2 bar max True line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed to water line Stainless steel mushroom valve Slightly more robust valves for steam/hot water More precise temp control in Fahrenheit scale (can operate in Celsius as well) A bit less complex internals (K.I.S.S. design) Shot timer integrated in PID controller What the Cinquantotto has that the Pro 700 does not: Heavy Rocket branding/style presence Detachable controller Programmable on/off times per day of week Ceramic mushroom valve More accessories in the box Subtle shot timer cut into face of machine Hope that helps! Marc
Hello there and thanks for the accurate review. I was wondering if this machine could be used as the daily driver of a small cafe? Which serves like 60-100 cups of espresso a day
Hi AE, Thanks for the question. It's possible, but keep in mind this machine is really intended for home/domestic use. It's not NSF or ETL rated. In heavy back to back use you are likely to see the brew temps edge up. Marc
Hi Mickey, thanks for the comment. I’m not sure if it’s the one as we’ve been working with a lot over the past few weeks. This one, a bunch of Bezzera’s, Crem, Dalla Corte and more. Someday I’ll have to do a “behind the scenes” tour of the studio and Coffee Lab. Probably about 20 or so machines there now. What brands/models are you interested in? Marc
I’ve been looking into the ECM synchronika! But I know y’all are working on something else that’s dual boiler with PID and has some other nice features, so just waiting to check that out before I make a decision
Hi Chris, Many like the branding/look of the R58 Cinquantotto. Personally I'm partial to the Synchronika with higher (best in class) steam pressure up to ~2 bar. Also a touch higher quality in finishing detail. Also Synchronika is available w/flow control of E61 group. If not familiar with that here's my video posted last week featuring the Synchronika and explaining how to do 2 very simple flow profiles based on coffee age from roast and/or roast level: th-cam.com/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/w-d-xo.html Marc
Hey Marc I've been debating between getting the new Rocket Cinquantotto or the ECM Synchronika, i would like to know what you think based on both machines. Currently I own a Rocket Appartmento but I'm thinking into upgrading into a dual boiler for larger family gather. I'd love to hear your intake in this and what you think is better
Hi Omar, Thanks for the question. They are both fine machines. If you like the Rocket branding then maybe stick with that. Some keyy differences: Synchronika: Higher steaming power - most available in these types of machines. It can do line pressure pre-infusion which is very helpful if using fresh from roast specialty coffee, gauges are up higher, easiest to open machine on the market - all panels can be removed in
Hi Marc from Whole Latte Love, Do you have any videos that discuss the Rocket's copper boiler and all its internals ? Specifically the Appartamento. Someone told me today that it's a bad choice to purchase because stainless steel is better and that a PID is superior. DO you have any videos that discuss all those ? I love my appartamento, but I would like to see your perspective. Thanks Marc!
Hi B, my colleague AJ is working on an Appartamento review which will probably drop on Tuesday. PID provides very accurate brew temps but there are flushing techniques on non PID HX boiler machines like the Appartamento which allow for quick and relatively predictable brew temp manipulation. AJ will explore that in his video with Scace readings and more. I have no preference for stainless or copper boiler other than open up a machine after some use and the stainless still looks new and copper gets a patina unless a manufacturer chooses to nickel plate the copper. Bezzera does that in some machines. Marc
Hello i have same this machine and I have problem with extraction pressure gauge the one on right side there is humidity inside the gauge and the machine is still very new only 2 days.
Hi MAA, I've seen that happen in new machines in relatively humid environments. I'd give it a few days and it might go away. On the other hand it may be a defective gauge - is it reading pressure? if problem does not resolve I'd contact retailer for replacement. Should be under warranty if defective. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much for replying actually this is the second one they replace it for me with a new one and this is the second one also have same problem the humidity is coming inside the gauge actually this happen even when the machine in standby mode because the machine is hot.
Hi Raymond, Yes you can. We are working to make the pdf easily available. Until then you can contact us here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us and we can email the pdf. Marc
These videos are the best! Thank you! With regards to the timer, does the time on function work as the time it’s ready to brew? Or the time it turns on and will then need to warm up. And in which case, how long does it take to warm up to brewing temp? :)
Hi g, Thanks for the question. Coffee I used in this video was Maromas Orphea roasted on April 5, 2020. It's one of my favorite classic Italian style bean blends. These types of coffee are affordable, produce excellent results and are stable for months when stored properly. Many Italian style blends contain some Robusta beans along with the Arabica which help with crema production. The high quality Robusta beans in Orphea are double washed and come from a single plantation. Check it out here along with user reviews (4.5/5 stars) - I'm not the only one who calls this their favorite: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso Marc
Hi KO, As you may know I have worked extensively with the Synchronika. In my experience it has excellent accuracy. I'm currently working on a review of the ECM Technika V Profi PID: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-technika-v-profi-pid It's essentially the HX boiler version of the Synchronika. Did some Scace testing of the Technika yesterday and was amazed with +/- 0.5F accuracy. That's really hard to pull off in an HX boiler machine. And, I had that accuracy with no flushing prior to testing. I'm going to do a demo in the Technika video in which I put a wet rag on the E61 group for 10 seconds then do a Scace test. I think most will be amazed at how much the brew temp drops - a good example of why it's rather difficult to get super accurate brew temps. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. I am planning to order a new machine next month. The calendar function on the new Rocket is a game changer. I am sort in the middle of this one and the Synchronika. The steam / hot water valves on the ECM is a thing that really makes it more attractive. And yeah how it’s built. I really like your approach on things on your videos. The Technika video will be interesting
@@Wholelattelovepage we’re looking for a new machine for our cabin in Canada and I see you now have a store here.We have a breville dual boiler (it’s our first machine or is this an appliance). My husband is the coffee dude and I’m the latte art girl. We’re so on the fence. Do we buy something simple like the Gaggia pro, do we get the profitec 300 or this!! We watch the videos at night in bed 😂😛. We don’t have tons of money to spend but I don’t want to buy something and get annoyed making steamed milk waiting! We also wonder if we need pre infusion 🤔🤷♀️.
@@lisegagne3716 Yes we do have a Canadian site now. Your BDB is what I consider appliance grade. If you don't like waiting for steam not sure the Classic would be right for you. It's ready to steam about 25 seconds after flipping the steam switch so it's faster than most single boilers but workflow requires cooling down the boiler after steaming. If willing to put up with the workflow and wait, the GCP is a true machine and a great value. If budget allows and you want to be a steam queen take a look at the Profitec Pro 600: wholelattelove.ca/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Videos on the machine available at the link. The Pro 600 has best in class steaming power. A lot more than machines like the Classic! Might also consider machines with a heat exchange boiler which can brew and steam simultaneously. The Bezzera BZ13 is an excellent value, compact and ready to brew 10 minutes after power on: wholelattelove.ca/products/bezzera-bz13-pm#product-videos Pre-infusion can be useful in some brewing situations. And, you get some naturally with the E61 group of the Pro 600. Both machines above use vibration pumps which build pressure slowly at the start and give you the standard benefits of pre-infusion. If you want to go next level you might consider an E61 machine like the Pro 600 equipped with flow control. That gives very precise control of pre-infusion and flow rates during extractions. It's available on all Profitec and ECM machines with E61 brew groups and the Quick Mill Pathfinder which is another good value in HX boiler machines: wholelattelove.ca/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/pathfinder-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-with-flow-control-gold-panels Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I have been eying those… and the ECM synchronica. A bit pricey but perhaps I keep these at home and bring the Appliance to camp ? Seriously we love love the videos! The added bonus is now the hubs has stated calling me Hun! I said see Mark calls his wife that and I really like that💕! Great job on all the stuff you do! Do you ever do any video clip recruiting?
@@lisegagne3716 😂 Hun - love that! Happy you got the bonus! My hun calls me Buck - part of my last name. Synchronika is an awesome machine and if you watch the vids you already know it's my favorite dual boiler. ECM is the Lexus to the Profitec Toyota in build and finish quality. Synchronika has the same extra steaming power of the Pro 600 but coming from a larger boiler, It's plumbable and has a rotary pump. A very classy machine! Thanks for all the kind comments. Not sure what you mean by clip recruiting - like stock footage? Marc
Would have liked to see Rocket include a 2 bar steam boiler with this unit. Been waiting for the Crem One machine and when I saw this I was hopeful but I guess I’ll wait a little longer to see the Crem One units.
Hi AG, thanks for the question. I recently reviewed Bezzera’s BZ13 and did some Scace testing. Results were quite good. I reviewed the Matrix/Duo awhile back. Honestly don’t recall if I did tests. Going forward I’m planning on always doing so. If I can find the time I’ll try and get the M and/or D on the Scace. Marc
Ariel Rodriguez Hi, sorry I do not recall what grinder you are using. Typically, decreasing grind size should extend extraction timing at a given dose weight. But, there are other variables in play like grind distribution, tamping quality and machine items like brew temp etc. do your best to keep all variables the same and only work grind size changes. If going over 30 seconds at grind setting of 8 I would think you would want to increase grind size and not decrease. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Marc, I just set the breville barista touch to grind setting 13 and in 15 seconds it did 62 ounces. I had to stop it at 15 seconds. Head scratching here!! I tampered it well and used the distributor.
that is approximately the largest size grind supported by your machine ....... at this rate , you're making tea. 7 is the absolute largest i would use , but with the coffee I use , I tend to average 4 to get optimal extraction .@@arielrodriguez975
I think the decision to use a dedicated controller rather than a Bluetooth connection to a smartphone was a good call. An espresso machine is designed to last decades. Its hard to predict the lifetime of the bluetooth protocol as well as smartphone app support.
Hi DT, We are back - actually I never really left. I'm sure I'll be doing some more live streams in a few weeks. Any particular subjects matters you'd be interested in for live streams? Marc
The temperature stability tests are impressive! The touch display is nice but I think there is a missed opportunity to provide BT and mobile app which you would think to be cheaper to produce and offer future proofing for the end user. (Ps clever it can switch water source electronically...) 😎
Hi squib, thanks for the comments. I’ve heard a couple of manufacturers are working on BT and app control. Jura already does it with Smart Connect and their JOE app. Marc
Coffe machines are meant to last, and with proper maintenance will last you decades. Mobile apps on the other hand stop working after a couple of OS updates, unless the developer issues a patch. So if I were you I would rather have a dedicated PID device over a mobile app that might not be compatible with your future phone.
I'd prefer no electronic interfaces, they age so badly, displays burn out, electronic components will fail sooner or later and I would be surprised if there aren't any software bugs which someone has to fix.
For such a gorgeous looking machine, I feel the integration of the digital screen is clunky and at odds with the beautiful stainless steel design. I get that its an 'add-on' but just feel they could have done better. If I was a product designer, I'd replace the dials with digital dials (like modern car cockpit screens) and integrate the controls into those. Just my thoughts! I'd still LOVE one tho :)
Hi NF, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As mentioned in the video Rocket has for years resisted digital displays. The display is removable and machine retains all info set using the touch display. If you like the digital displays check out the Bezzera Matrix: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-mn-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Also features side panels with changeable colors! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc, that looks more like it! Difficult to get the balance right between tradition and technology but I like the look of that machine :)
I want a commercial or at least a NSF rated cinquantotto maybe with a slightly larger brew boiler. I like the consumer body style. I think commercial espresso machines aren't as aesthetically pleasing.
These machines are great but you have to consider a few things before buying them, which I hope I had known before. Unless you are a well-to-do person or live nearby a certified service dealer to drop these machines personally for repair/maintenance, I would give a hard third or fifth look at the cost of owning these espresso machines. They are heavy and big...How does $250 for UPS ground shipping sound to you every time you need to ship these machines for repair or maintenance? Worse. How about paying this amount if your brand new machine comes with a defect under Warranty? My Rocket Mozzafiato came with a seemingly PID related defect right out of the box, on dayb1 I called SCG who simply said “send it over to check it out” (in the meantime Whole Latte Love offered to troubleshoot it for me on the phone had I bought it from them to save shipping money). I had to spend out of my pocket $250 to ship this machine to SCG when I felt Rocket should have paid for a defect they created, right out of the box. I hope they tell me they had to replace the PID unit to make the expense worthwhile and don’t tell me now all it needed was a simple adjustment of the pump pressure control under the machine because that would really make me angry. The real revelation of all this initial incursion into these espresso machine was to learn that every time I will need to send my Mozzafiato either to repair or regular maintenance, I will have to pay $250 a pop to UPS to cover packaging, shipping and insurance, as there are no local certified Rocket service dealer in Tampa. I wish they had told me this when I was considering my purchase to factor this in the cost of repairing or maintaining the machine, and most particularly the cost of covering any shipping during the warranty period.
Hi CRR62, Thanks for the comments sharing your experience and highlighting things prospective owners should be aware of. I hope your vendor is able to resolve your trouble. It is true, one needs to keep maintenance in mind. Best analogy is auto ownership. You are going to need service at some point and if you don't DIY it's a service you will have to pay for. We do our best to help those who choose to DIY. It helps them save money, shipping hassles and machine downtime. I think we are fairly unique in providing direct customer support by phone, chat and email from our staff of product experts. Beyond that we have an extensive and growing library of support videos with detailed procedures for common issues. It does matter who one purchases from and it's in our DNA to provide the best support possible. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage tou are welcome. i feel WLL has a more caring and supportive customer-oriented team than the one from that other competitor (SCG) on the west coast. Too bad I purchased my Mozzafiato from them before I discovered WLL
Big question! Can you measure the depth of the feet? Essentially, what is the minimum counter depth needed to have all four feet sturdily on the counter?
My goodness, I thought Mr. Rocket (Andrew) loved his branding before, but now he has found even more spaces for 'R' or 'Rocket' labels.... maybe he should look at the Louis Vuitton style of branding, he could print 'R' all over the stainless steel.... Yes, I'm teasing Rocket a bit, but for a company that didn't want a PID because it messed up the purity of the classic Italian machine, it seems a bit perverse to then over-brand it.
Hi CM, Thanks for the comment. Yes, Rocket machines are heavy on the branding! I've known Andrew Meo who recently left the company for about 8 years. He's visited us here in NY and I have been to their domestic and commercial machine production facilities near Milan. He explained to me his intention for the R 58 was "sexy" machine true to the classics without the digital displays. Guess he considered the branding sexy! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I just love the Rocket screen. The pid display on the Profitec and Synchronica are antiquated. You guys should work with them to update that.
I've played with an r58 in person. There's enough steam power in there to make a Starbucks style venti latte. lol Just because it's not class leading, it doesn't mean it's not enough. :D
@@SurfandSand808 that's probably true. I personally practice latte art a lot, and on Ins I found people do amazing latte art all have very powerful machine, either LaMazzoco/Slayer, or commercial machines. So I'm honestly not sure if such difference in steam power matters, but I would get 2BAR just for better matching the commercial steaming power, so I'll get peace of mind.
Who ever made those legs should be fired. Probably was the owner, that andrew thinks he is a designer, but here is the proof he is not, together with the R9 design.
Dear Rocket. Give me Bluetooth/Wifi so I can use my phone and make the screen an option and charge me less. It will be hip, it will be cool, it will be something you will probably do anyway.
Hi Marc I have ordered one because of your reviews, I have to say your one of the best presenters I have ever watched, brilliant delivery of all the information you need .. Thanks Jonathan lewis UK
Hi JL, Thank you for the kind comment - it's appreciated. I'm sure you will enjoy your Cinquantotto! Be well!
Marc
Hi Marc great info. I would like to get your opion on using two Rocket R Nine Ones for my coffee shop. I prepare about 300 cups a day. Will the machines be reliable and keep up??? Thanks so much. Cheers
Hi Marc!
Thanks for making this review. I've been watching your reviews on the r58 for a while so i decided to buy one. I received my Cinquantotto around a month ago as i was deliberating between this and a protec 700. All i can say is that I'm very happy with the result. It does take around 20-30 mins to reach perfect temp but as its great at making lovely espressos I'm not complaining.
Hi Wesley, You are welcome for the review and thanks for sharing your opinion of the machine.
Marc
Thanks Mark ... I know virtually nothing about making coffee - despite the fact that I've been having a coffee for breakfast for over thirty years now. Also thanks to you I am now $8000 poorer! Just grabbed a La Marzocco Linea Mini and a Niche Zero grinder Jack leveller etc, etc. Once this kit is well ensconced on my kitchen counter, I'll be making my way through another swag of your most-excellent vids. Thanks for the new hobby! - JBW: Australia
Hi John, You are welcome and thank you for the comment - happy to help and "sorry" for the $8K. :)
Marc
Hi Marc!
I'm so glad you put this review out. I've been really torn between purchasing the new Cinquantotto and the Bezzera Duo with the E61 group. I am from New Zealand and these two machines are at the same price point here. I have talked to a couple of shops who sell these but each only sells one brand or the other so naturally they say the brand they sell is better quality and I'm not really getting an honest/unbiased opinion. Since you guys deal with both Rocket and Bezzera I thought you would have some interesting/ more levelled opinions on this. I like the look of the Bezzera a little more but the new design of the Cinquantotto is definitely growing on me as time goes on. Downside of the Bezzera for me is no gauges on the front and everything being through the touch screen. At the price point I could even get the ECM Synchronika which I know would be the smartest buy but I just prefer the looks of the other 2 a bit more and the fact they have built in on/off timers. Apologies for the long message but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks,
Tom
Hi Tom, No problem on the long message. Helps to have your details. The Duo IMO is the most complex of the machines under the hood - lot's of extra electronics with all info terminating at a single touch display. I'm a fan of K.I.S.S. design and the Synchronika wins on that point and overall quality of construction and components. If you prefer the look of the Cinquantotto I'd go that way. Components are not that far apart to overcome a visual preference. I will mention that the Synchronika does have programmable standby time but not automatic turn on. Also has best in class steam power of up to 2 bar compared to max of 1.4 in the Cinquantotto.
Marc
ص
Temperature stability Test Report chart @ 95C: Footnote incorrectly shows 203F/92C when it should be 203F/95C
@8:01 - the bottom of the screen reads "PID SETTING = 203F/92C", but it should be 203F/*95C*. Minor edit 😊
Hello Marc. Regarding you comment about page 25 of the manual and temperature settings. I'm still unclear if you meant the manual info was incorrect or not depending on what page 25 looked like. The audio was not clear so I did not quite catch what you said or meant. You mentioned you were sent an updated PDF file. Can you make a link available for the PDF version of the manual with the corrected page 25? I went to the rocket website and the their PDF file was the same, if not older. Thanks
I'd love the link too.
Cheers Marc, great video and details.
Since I do have the Cinquantotto your video really helps with the operation of the machine.
I do have a question regarding pre infusion.
My Cinquantotto gives me a pre infusion time of 3 seconds when using Lavazza Gran Crema Barista beans ground at the #1 setting on a Mignon Specialita grinder.
(18 gram dose, 20 seconds with a 50 gram yield)
Is the 3 second pre infusion acceptable in this case?
Thanks.
Thanks for the review. Can you shorten the feet or use the old feet?
Hi T, thanks for the question. New feet cannot be shortened. Old style nozzle like feet mount on a single stud. New ones have 2 bolts so cannot be exchanged without some serious hacking.
Marc
Thank you Marc for your comprehensive review. I have the previous version which is now 18 months young. I have lost count of the times friends have complemented the looks of the R58 and the espressos. The only issue I have had is that the chrome plating on the portafilter did not last very long and the brass is clearly visible inside. I replaced it with a Pesado which so far is proving more durable. You mention that the internals are essentially the same which leads me to consider what would be involved in replacing my controller with the newer device ? To their credit, Rocket provides comprehensive support for their machines with a complete parts list available even here in Australia. Are the only differences perhaps the control box, cabling and interface ? BTW I believe the new model has a USB while my R58 V2 has the serial port. (At 3:25 on your review)
with thanx,
Marcel
Hi Marcel, Thank you for the comment and question. I used a generic term serial cable for the USB connection. Serial cable happens to be what Rocket calls it in their manual. Sorry to hear about the plating on your PF. I have seen that happen on PFs from many manufacturers after extended use. I have no info on replacing the controller old for new style. I'm guessing it would be possible as most anything is with enough $$, effort and skill.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Marc, greatly appreciate your advice. The Rocket continues to produce sensational espressos, lattes and during our Melbourne lockdown evening correttos. It is a joy to use. Your earlier demonstrations with Todd informed our decision to by the R58.
ciao,
Marcel
Extremely nice videos! With this machine is it necessary to do a cooling flush after the machine is not in use for couple hours?
Hi Alan, Thanks for the kind comment and question. Maybe - with dual boiler machines it's usually not needed. You can check by looking for flash boiling water coming from the group without the PF attached after its been sitting for a long period. Ambient temps and keeping your PF in the group when not in use can change things.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage . Marc, thank you very much! :)
Hey Marc hello, I would like to upgrade my coffee machine set up having now a rancilio Silvia. I was considering to buy a Lelit Bianca V3 or maybe a Rocket R cinquatotto. What you think about these two machines? What should I go for? Thank you for your help
Hey MTD, They both are very capable machines. Having been inside both the Rocket is a little more refined in the finishing details. If you're down to a dual boiler machine I'd also have a look at the Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. Both are very well built. They are essentially identical internally and like the Lelit have higher pressure available in the steam boiler as compared to the Rocket. The ECM has a higher level of finishing detail with a tapered group head, angled portafilter joystick operated valves and faceted E61 exhaust port.
Marc
how to raise up that Cinquantotto boiler temperature from 100 C to 103 C ? how to set up ? many user in Taiwan thought's temperature too low to drink.
Hey Max, you'd change temperature using the detachable control panel.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage hi MARC
Pls teaching me how to change the boiler's temperature upto 103c? from the PID offset . My ROCKET R58 Cinquantotto only can upto 100c but I want to higher it a little bit more.
Just like the oven can change the temperature by adjusting electric resistance; choice 150C 180C or 250C . Thank you in advance if you could share your knowledge. or experience.
Hi Marc,
Do you get more crema and better late art from cinquantotto or profitec 700?
Thank you
Hi SH, Thanks for the question. In general, crema production is more a function of the coffee used and proper grind size than the machine. The Pro 700 is available with flow control of the E61 group which gives you more options when pulling a shot that could help with crema. For milk frothing, which is key to pouring good latte art, the Pro 700 is capable of running at best in class 2 bar of steam pressure. The Cinquantotto runs at ~1.4 bar max. More pressure gets you a more vigorous roll in the pitcher. In the right hands, more pressure makes it easier to create the silky milk texture needed for pouring latte art.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Eventually we can get the ECM Flow control Kit that you selling with the ECM and Profitec machines? I’m looking put the FC on the R58 and the couples that I see it have the black display on the gauge, you’re the only ones that carry on white display gauge with ECM, I think it matches better with the others gauges on the Rocket
How much do u guys usually put in the 14g double filter??
Hi SA, So 14g is the traditional Italian dose but I'm, usually in the 16-19g range. Depends on the coffee used but you can usually fit 16g in the stock double basket. For larger doses I move up to aftermarket precision filter baskets like this 20g model: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/pro-brewing/products/baristapro-20g-precision-portafilter-basket
Marc
Thanks for the review! I just bought an R58 and my pucks keep coming out burnt at the bottom, not overly burnt but around the bottom edge. I had my PID set to default temps. Is 5 seconds of flushing enough or should I be doing more?
Hi GGV, You're welcome and thanks for the question. 5 seconds should be more than enough. If you feel your puck is burnt I'd lower the temp a couple of degrees and compare flavor.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Wow thanks Marc! You are my favorite host on Whole Latte Love! Love your voice!
Hi Marc,
R58 or ECM Synchronika? Looks like I can program the Rocket to be up to temp when I get up. Same for the ECM? Which would you buy?
Hi Michael, Yes you can set the most recent Rocket Cinquanttoto (R58) to turn on automatically. The Synchronika does not have that feature. You can always get that function with an appliance timer. Get a wifi timer and turn it on/off from anywhere. Personally I prefer the Synchonika with it's higher steam pressure and more refined finishing details. Also, it's a little less complex under the hood and I appreciate the greater reliability inherent K.I.S.S. design. Synchronika can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed the Cinquanttoto cannot. Of course you can go with flow control on the Synchronika and do pre-infusion and a whole latte more regardless if running plumbed or from reservoir.
Marc
Does it have pre-infusion? Would the ECM Synchronika's Flow Control upgrade work with the Cinquantotto (to manually emulate pre-infusion)? Great review, thanks again Mark!
Hi ff, Thanks for the question and comment. It has standard E61 pre-infusion which is better thought of as pre-wetting IMO as no real pressure behind it. We have tested the flow control in E61 groups on other manufacturers machines at it works fine in Rocket's.
Marc
Hi Mark, im new to Coffee making and want the best of the best machine for my home use; would this rocket model be it or something else.
Great question, I am looking for a new machine also, I like this one though.
Hi MrS, Thanks for the question. Dual boiler machine like the R Cinquantotto or considered top of the line for home use. A similar machine is the ECM Synchonika: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control The ECM is available with flow control of the E61 group which opens up more possibilities. And the Synchronika has best in class steaming power. The flow control is a bit beyond entry -level but you could make use of it down the road to get more out of specialty coffees. If you want to go super high-end for home the Dalla Corte Mina is about as good as it gets but it's about 2.5x the price of the Rocket or ECM: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Marc
See my response
I am wondering can I use Profitec Flow Controller and install it onto this machine, and function the same as profitec pro 700 to control flow profile?
Hi OO, Yes we have tested it on Rocket E61 groups and it works well.
Great review - Thanks 🙏 Is it possible to take the feet of and replace them with others from the Rocket line of espresso machines?
Hi Lars, You are welcome and thank you for the comment. These feet have 2 bolts connecting them. Other Rocket feet I'm familiar with have a single bolts. Not that something couldn't be hacked but it's a different setup.
Marc
Hi Marc,
The pid controller on my cinquantotto sometimes reamains stuck when in calendar mode(can be seen also by the clock in the display).
The machine turns on and off to the setted time but the displays reamains unresponsive until I turn the machine on/off manually…
Any advice here?
Thanks!
How we can update the PID to the new version V1.5 to fix the cronometro timer problem?
At 08:00 PID setting (on the bottom) 203F should be equal to 95C and not 92C. Thanks for the review!
Thanks for correction!
Hi, do you have to leave the screen attached for the on timing to work. (I'm totally expecting yes, no problem that being the case). A on/off programmable timer is needed for all top home machines. It's not a cafe where your arriving an hour ahead setting up shop. All machines should come with a proper tamper (Tick here) , and a Bottomless portafilter instead of Single. For the bottomless to work well though they would need to upgrade the supplied Shower screen and basket, the closed portafilters hide a few sins. For the top end machines the extra RRP for those would make little difference. Providing on brand quality tamper leads to people staying on brand for other accessories.
Hi Adam, thanks a whole latte for sharing your thoughts! The controller does not need to be connected for timing to operate. That’s according to Rocket and something I have not personally tested but the memory is in the machine not the display. I and our product specialist have been advocating for inclusion of bottomless PF’s with manufacturers. IMO single spouts are rarely used so why not replace with a naked one! I did a very non-scientific poll in a video awhile back and there was a huge preference for naked over singles.
Marc
I have tested this with my new Cinquantotto (from WLL) and it works just fine. The machine starts up and goes to sleep on the set schedule even without the display connected. However!, the schedule does not seem to work if you have Eco mode enabled. It looks like if Eco gets enabled, it disables Calendar mode and vise versa. Not really an issue though, since I startup mine at 6am and have it sleep at 9am
L M Hi thanks so much for adding details of your experience and your patronage. I love a community that takes the time to help and advise others. So awesome! 👏 Marc
Hi marc :) sorry I'm asking something about bezzera bz10 Can you change the OPV? what number with blind basket you suggest to get actual 9bar at brew head because i heard vibration pump machines like bz10 need to be at least fixed at 10 bar with blind basket to get 9 bar or less in brew head idk if that number is accurate so i ask this from you
Also is the OPV on bz10 "made for adjusting" ? Because i heard in old models you should buy bezzera 9bar opv adjustable kit and swap it with the original opv on your machine because your original one doesn't made for adjusting and if you unscrew it it might leak or splash water out and damage your machine
What do you think marc?
Thank
Why were the first 3 shots not as accurate as the ones after regarding brew temp?
HI, great review. I'm considering purchasing the R Cinquantotto but I have very limited space in which to put it. Can you tell me the depth of the feet? That is, the measurement between the front of the front feet & the back of the back feet? Thank you.
Hi TVB, Thanks for the question. Sorry for delayed response. It's 15 inches from back of back feet to front of front feet. Hope that helps!
Marc
Hello .. When the technician opened the machine to replace a faulty extraction pressure gauge, I noticed that some of the tubes were not copper and also the extraction boilers and the steam boilers looked like aluminum or stainless in this version.
Hi MAA, Internal plumbing that is not copper maybe used in areas where water is not under pressure. Boilers may be stainless steel but are not aluminum.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc
It is stainless steel yes
Just got my Cinquantotto two weeks now. The manual is not very good at explaining the controller calendar function . For example, once the calendar and times are set for wake up now what? The machine is still on and won't turn off. Obviously if I switch off the machine timer will not work. I must be doing something wrong but the manual is of no help. Can you please help? Thanks.
Hi AG, Thanks for the question. So you've set on and off times but the machine does not turn off at the specified time? You may need to power cycle the machine (turn it off for 10 seconds then turn back on) for the programmed times to take affect.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage HI, thanks for the response. I figured it out.
Hi Marc, I recently purchased the Cinquantotto and loving it. One very strange issue I have is that when I pull a shot with the single PF, and the shot clock on the machine surpasses 25 seconds, the clock continues to run on the machine even after I stop pulling a shot (the clock on the digital display does stop). It doesn't happen when:
1. Using the double PF
2. If the steamer is working in tandem with pulling a shot.
Have you run into something like this and if yes, how is it fixed ?
Great review,
Dan
Hi Dan, Thanks for the comment and question. That hast happened. Not sure why but in my case was not related to the PF used - I have never used the single PF on the Cinquantotto and pulled well in excess of 100 shots on the machine. My resolution was to power cycle the machine.
Marc
Hi Marc what is you recommendations on choosing between Rancilio Silvia Pro Vs Rocket R Chinqantto can you please suggest about choosing amongst both the machines or make a detailed comparison Video! Looking forward for your opinion.. Thanks
Hi AV, Thanks for the request. Might be a while before I can do a video directly comparing the Silvia Pro and Cinquantotto. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of those machines with current pricing: /pages/compare?products=NDYzOTU2NDIzNDgwNiw0NzIzOTg5NDEzOTQy
There's a very large price difference between the 2 machines!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage As rightly mentioned by you Marc that there is a very large price difference between both the Machines All I simply wana know from you is that is there a competence deficit in the Silvia Pro because of it being a more economical machine when compared to Rocket R Chinqantto?
I wouldn't say there is a competence deficit. The Cinquantotto has a lot more detail in the finish work and it's a traditional E61 dual boiler design. Some other key differences: The Cinquantotto is plumbable with rotary pump, has more control in the outboard touchscreen and high quality materials used in casework. The Silvia Pro is more utilitarian in design - not as pretty as the Rocket, uses vibration pumps, not plumbable and uses a boiler over group design rather than E61.
Marc
R58 Cinquantotto vs. ECM Synchronika, which would you say is best for making the fluffiest so-called dry cappuccinos (cappucinos with lots of foam, less liquid milk)? I'm primarily wondering if the Synchronika heats milk too quickly to inject sufficient air before it reaches temperature. Not sure if my taste is dated or something, but would love to see someone make cappuccinos with extra-fluffy, velvety thick luxurious foam, rather than more watery-looking lattes! Great review, though. Thank you!
“Hi ff, Your taste is not dated! If you like a very dry foam that's what you should have. I do think in general cappuccinos have gone to more of a caffe late style milk froth capable of pouring art - baristas want to show of their skills! While the Synchronika has best in class steaming power you can turn down the service boiler temp for less vigorous steam if you are feeling overpowered. That said, getting that foam is more about technique and tip position relative to the surface of the milk.
Marc
My New R58 brew Temp only goes to 100 degrees Celsius , Factory settings say it goes to 105 ? Also does it work with the IPhone App as well? and can I program different profiles as in A B or C with this new machine ..Thx you Marc
Dean Philpott in Nanaimo BC Canada
Hi Dean, Thanks for the question!
I've been through Nanaimo many times on my way to my uncle's remote cabin on Barkley Sound near Bamfield BC. Last trip was a couple of years ago in April during a very dry and unusually warm stretch of weather after attending the SCA show in Seattle. Logging road from Port Alberni to Bamfield was crazy dusty! I love Vancouver Island! It's a true jewel and the people their are about the friendliest I've ever run into! My wife wants to move to VI, BC.
But on to your machine. Not sure where you saw 105C as max temp for brew boiler. I do recall running into some misprinted Rocket manuals a few months ago. Rocket used to use the actual in boiler temp for setting of brew temp. So one would use a chart in the manual to reference a desired brew temp and get the required boiler temp for that. With the Cinquantotto they changed to using an offset. That means the PID calculates the brew temp for you so you set the actual temperature you want at the brew head and no longer use the chart. You definitely would not want to pull shots at 105C. That's far outside espresso/coffee brew temp range of 91-96C (195-205F). I'd start with brew temp set at 94C and go +1 for lighter roast and -1 for darker.
As far as I know there is no App integration on the Cinquantotto. Sounds like you might be looking at an App for their R Nine One machine which has pressure profiling capabilities?
Hope you are well,
Marc
At 8:00, there's an onscreen typo. You say 95 celcius, but 92C remains onscreen.
Hi WJ, Yes there is! Saw that last night. Thankfully I say the correct temp and it’s right up higher on the page. Gotta have a word with my editor. Crap, that’s me! I am imperfect.
Marc
Beautiful review thank you! very much 🙏 I have a question this machine better than profitec Pro 700 please help me
Hi eliran, Thanks for the question. They are both quality machines and equally capable of making excellent espresso. "Better" is something of a subjective judgement based on what's important to you.
What the Pro 700 has that the Cinquantotto does not:
Best in class steaming power - near 2 bar max
True line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed to water line
Stainless steel mushroom valve
Slightly more robust valves for steam/hot water
More precise temp control in Fahrenheit scale (can operate in Celsius as well)
A bit less complex internals (K.I.S.S. design)
Shot timer integrated in PID controller
What the Cinquantotto has that the Pro 700 does not:
Heavy Rocket branding/style presence
Detachable controller
Programmable on/off times per day of week
Ceramic mushroom valve
More accessories in the box
Subtle shot timer cut into face of machine
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks very much🙏🙏 I get crazy🤪 and you know what I buy.... the profitec pro 800 I ordered today 😊 I hope I hope I do good choice
Hello there and thanks for the accurate review. I was wondering if this machine could be used as the daily driver of a small cafe? Which serves like 60-100 cups of espresso a day
Hi AE, Thanks for the question. It's possible, but keep in mind this machine is really intended for home/domestic use. It's not NSF or ETL rated. In heavy back to back use you are likely to see the brew temps edge up.
Marc
We have this machine at my office and we make maybe 10 cups/hour. No issues whatsoever and the coffee is delicious.
Hey Mark! Great review like always. Is this the new machine that you mentioned WLL was working on a few weeks ago?
Hi Mickey, thanks for the comment. I’m not sure if it’s the one as we’ve been working with a lot over the past few weeks. This one, a bunch of Bezzera’s, Crem, Dalla Corte and more. Someday I’ll have to do a “behind the scenes” tour of the studio and Coffee Lab. Probably about 20 or so machines there now. What brands/models are you interested in?
Marc
I’ve been looking into the ECM synchronika! But I know y’all are working on something else that’s dual boiler with PID and has some other nice features, so just waiting to check that out before I make a decision
Can’t decide between the R58 and ECM Synchronika. Which one would you choose?
Hi Chris, Many like the branding/look of the R58 Cinquantotto. Personally I'm partial to the Synchronika with higher (best in class) steam pressure up to ~2 bar. Also a touch higher quality in finishing detail. Also Synchronika is available w/flow control of E61 group. If not familiar with that here's my video posted last week featuring the Synchronika and explaining how to do 2 very simple flow profiles based on coffee age from roast and/or roast level: th-cam.com/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/w-d-xo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage THANK YOU!! ☕️
Hey Marc
I've been debating between getting the new Rocket Cinquantotto or the ECM Synchronika, i would like to know what you think based on both machines. Currently I own a Rocket Appartmento but I'm thinking into upgrading into a dual boiler for larger family gather. I'd love to hear your intake in this and what you think is better
Hi Omar, Thanks for the question. They are both fine machines. If you like the Rocket branding then maybe stick with that. Some keyy differences: Synchronika: Higher steaming power - most available in these types of machines. It can do line pressure pre-infusion which is very helpful if using fresh from roast specialty coffee, gauges are up higher, easiest to open machine on the market - all panels can be removed in
Hi Marc from Whole Latte Love,
Do you have any videos that discuss the Rocket's copper boiler and all its internals ? Specifically the Appartamento. Someone told me today that it's a bad choice to purchase because stainless steel is better and that a PID is superior. DO you have any videos that discuss all those ? I love my appartamento, but I would like to see your perspective. Thanks Marc!
Hi B, my colleague AJ is working on an Appartamento review which will probably drop on Tuesday. PID provides very accurate brew temps but there are flushing techniques on non PID HX boiler machines like the Appartamento which allow for quick and relatively predictable brew temp manipulation. AJ will explore that in his video with Scace readings and more.
I have no preference for stainless or copper boiler other than open up a machine after some use and the stainless still looks new and copper gets a patina unless a manufacturer chooses to nickel plate the copper. Bezzera does that in some machines.
Marc
8:00 the table says 92C but it should be 95
Hello i have same this machine and I have problem with extraction pressure gauge the one on right side there is humidity inside the gauge and the machine is still very new only 2 days.
Hi MAA, I've seen that happen in new machines in relatively humid environments. I'd give it a few days and it might go away. On the other hand it may be a defective gauge - is it reading pressure? if problem does not resolve I'd contact retailer for replacement. Should be under warranty if defective.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much for replying actually this is the second one they replace it for me with a new one and this is the second one also have same problem the humidity is coming inside the gauge actually this happen even when the machine in standby mode because the machine is hot.
Can we get the pdf copy of the corrected manual?
Hi Raymond, Yes you can. We are working to make the pdf easily available. Until then you can contact us here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us and we can email the pdf.
Marc
These videos are the best! Thank you! With regards to the timer, does the time on function work as the time it’s ready to brew? Or the time it turns on and will then need to warm up. And in which case, how long does it take to warm up to brewing temp? :)
Hi David, thanks for the kind comment. It's the time the machine turns on. I'd allow about 25 minutes for full warmup.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks so much, Marc!
Mark did you use very newly roasted beans to get such thick crema ?
Hi g, Thanks for the question. Coffee I used in this video was Maromas Orphea roasted on April 5, 2020. It's one of my favorite classic Italian style bean blends. These types of coffee are affordable, produce excellent results and are stable for months when stored properly. Many Italian style blends contain some Robusta beans along with the Arabica which help with crema production. The high quality Robusta beans in Orphea are double washed and come from a single plantation. Check it out here along with user reviews (4.5/5 stars) - I'm not the only one who calls this their favorite: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
Marc
Hey Marc, where are we with the brew temperature accuracy with this one vs. ECM Synchronika
Hi KO, As you may know I have worked extensively with the Synchronika. In my experience it has excellent accuracy. I'm currently working on a review of the ECM Technika V Profi PID: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-technika-v-profi-pid
It's essentially the HX boiler version of the Synchronika. Did some Scace testing of the Technika yesterday and was amazed with +/- 0.5F accuracy. That's really hard to pull off in an HX boiler machine. And, I had that accuracy with no flushing prior to testing. I'm going to do a demo in the Technika video in which I put a wet rag on the E61 group for 10 seconds then do a Scace test. I think most will be amazed at how much the brew temp drops - a good example of why it's rather difficult to get super accurate brew temps.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. I am planning to order a new machine next month. The calendar function on the new Rocket is a game changer. I am sort in the middle of this one and the Synchronika. The steam / hot water valves on the ECM is a thing that really makes it more attractive. And yeah how it’s built.
I really like your approach on things on your videos. The Technika video will be interesting
Great review! Thank you for your thorough analyses, love it!
Hi CB, you are welcome and thank you for the comments.
Marc
Love this video! I’d love to try this one
Hi Lise, Thanks a whole latte for the comment!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage we’re looking for a new machine for our cabin in Canada and I see you now have a store here.We have a breville dual boiler (it’s our first machine or is this an appliance). My husband is the coffee dude and I’m the latte art girl. We’re so on the fence. Do we buy something simple like the Gaggia pro, do we get the profitec 300 or this!! We watch the videos at night in bed 😂😛. We don’t have tons of money to spend but I don’t want to buy something and get annoyed making steamed milk waiting! We also wonder if we need pre infusion 🤔🤷♀️.
@@lisegagne3716 Yes we do have a Canadian site now. Your BDB is what I consider appliance grade. If you don't like waiting for steam not sure the Classic would be right for you. It's ready to steam about 25 seconds after flipping the steam switch so it's faster than most single boilers but workflow requires cooling down the boiler after steaming. If willing to put up with the workflow and wait, the GCP is a true machine and a great value. If budget allows and you want to be a steam queen take a look at the Profitec Pro 600: wholelattelove.ca/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Videos on the machine available at the link.
The Pro 600 has best in class steaming power. A lot more than machines like the Classic! Might also consider machines with a heat exchange boiler which can brew and steam simultaneously. The Bezzera BZ13 is an excellent value, compact and ready to brew 10 minutes after power on: wholelattelove.ca/products/bezzera-bz13-pm#product-videos
Pre-infusion can be useful in some brewing situations. And, you get some naturally with the E61 group of the Pro 600. Both machines above use vibration pumps which build pressure slowly at the start and give you the standard benefits of pre-infusion. If you want to go next level you might consider an E61 machine like the Pro 600 equipped with flow control. That gives very precise control of pre-infusion and flow rates during extractions. It's available on all Profitec and ECM machines with E61 brew groups and the Quick Mill Pathfinder which is another good value in HX boiler machines: wholelattelove.ca/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/pathfinder-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-with-flow-control-gold-panels
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I have been eying those… and the ECM synchronica. A bit pricey but perhaps I keep these at home and bring the Appliance to camp ? Seriously we love love the videos! The added bonus is now the hubs has stated calling me Hun! I said see Mark calls his wife that and I really like that💕! Great job on all the stuff you do! Do you ever do any video clip recruiting?
@@lisegagne3716 😂 Hun - love that! Happy you got the bonus! My hun calls me Buck - part of my last name. Synchronika is an awesome machine and if you watch the vids you already know it's my favorite dual boiler. ECM is the Lexus to the Profitec Toyota in build and finish quality. Synchronika has the same extra steaming power of the Pro 600 but coming from a larger boiler, It's plumbable and has a rotary pump. A very classy machine! Thanks for all the kind comments. Not sure what you mean by clip recruiting - like stock footage?
Marc
Marc, does this model have stainless steel frame?
Hi Igor, The frame is not stainless steel.
Marc
Would have liked to see Rocket include a 2 bar steam boiler with this unit. Been waiting for the Crem One machine and when I saw this I was hopeful but I guess I’ll wait a little longer to see the Crem One units.
Hi Mark, Thanks for the comment. I'm a little surprised Rocket has not bumped up the pressure. Not to worry Crem is coming!
Marc
Whole Latte Love can’t wait to see your videos and first impressions. I’ve got my money all ready to go, just need you to accept it 🤣
Can it be controlled by phone app instead of external display?
Hi v, Thanks for the question. No app control I'm aware of.
Marc
Will do similar testing on the Bezzera Matrix and Duo?
Hi AG, thanks for the question. I recently reviewed Bezzera’s BZ13 and did some Scace testing. Results were quite good. I reviewed the Matrix/Duo awhile back. Honestly don’t recall if I did tests. Going forward I’m planning on always doing so. If I can find the time I’ll try and get the M and/or D on the Scace.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc! Love the channel and in depth reviews!
Can you put on the ECM Synchronika Rocket R60 adjustable feet?
Hi i, No you cannot.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc!! Thanks.
Will the R58 feet will work?
My Synch have 10mm bolt feet
Is the rocket M8 and the ECM is M10 ? cheap adapter can fix it..the question is if you think it will work? The rocket coned feet are pretty awesome!
I wonder why they used the old USB connector for the PID instead of USB-C.
Hi Vin, Probably doesn't need the data rate or other capabilities of USB-C.
How come when I pull 15 grams for double shot at a grind setting of 8 it goes over 30 seconds and grind at 6 it does the same?
Ariel Rodriguez Hi, sorry I do not recall what grinder you are using. Typically, decreasing grind size should extend extraction timing at a given dose weight. But, there are other variables in play like grind distribution, tamping quality and machine items like brew temp etc. do your best to keep all variables the same and only work grind size changes. If going over 30 seconds at grind setting of 8 I would think you would want to increase grind size and not decrease.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Thank you Marc,
I just set the breville barista touch to grind setting 13 and in 15 seconds it did 62 ounces. I had to stop it at 15 seconds. Head scratching here!! I tampered it well and used the distributor.
that is approximately the largest size grind supported by your machine ....... at this rate , you're making tea. 7 is the absolute largest i would use , but with the coffee I use , I tend to average 4 to get optimal extraction .@@arielrodriguez975
@@milovacc1195 thank you. I have used 5 before and it pulled less then 1 ounce. Plus it was bitter.
I think the decision to use a dedicated controller rather than a Bluetooth connection to a smartphone was a good call.
An espresso machine is designed to last decades. Its hard to predict the lifetime of the bluetooth protocol as well as smartphone app support.
Hi Frangoose, Thanks for the comment - good point!
Marc
100% Having to connect something to my phone is non-starter...
Can the r58 handle a small cafe?
Hi Adam, R58 Cinquantotto is intended for domestic/home use. Not a commercially rated machine.
How did they look at those feet and decide it was a good choice to keep them on the machine? They look awful.
Hi AS, Thanks for sharing your opinion on the feet.
Marc
finally Mark is back!! Its been awhile, if you can do another live video.
Hi DT, We are back - actually I never really left. I'm sure I'll be doing some more live streams in a few weeks. Any particular subjects matters you'd be interested in for live streams?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage i just like those live long form videos. Thank you for replying. You guys are awesome
Great review, thank you for doing it.
Hi Johnny, thanks for the comment!
Marc
The temperature stability tests are impressive! The touch display is nice but I think there is a missed opportunity to provide BT and mobile app which you would think to be cheaper to produce and offer future proofing for the end user. (Ps clever it can switch water source electronically...) 😎
Hi squib, thanks for the comments. I’ve heard a couple of manufacturers are working on BT and app control. Jura already does it with Smart Connect and their JOE app.
Marc
Coffe machines are meant to last, and with proper maintenance will last you decades. Mobile apps on the other hand stop working after a couple of OS updates, unless the developer issues a patch. So if I were you I would rather have a dedicated PID device over a mobile app that might not be compatible with your future phone.
I'd prefer no electronic interfaces, they age so badly, displays burn out, electronic components will fail sooner or later and I would be surprised if there aren't any software bugs which someone has to fix.
As always great review!!! The best!!! Thanks Mark @TC_Prof
Hi Professor, thanks your comments are appreciated!
Marc
a brilliant review ..... but now I get the feeling you're not italian! Still you're definitely Superman when it comes to espresso book of knowledge !
Hi Milo, Thanks for the comment. No, not Italian - pure American Mutt.
Marc
For such a gorgeous looking machine, I feel the integration of the digital screen is clunky and at odds with the beautiful stainless steel design. I get that its an 'add-on' but just feel they could have done better. If I was a product designer, I'd replace the dials with digital dials (like modern car cockpit screens) and integrate the controls into those. Just my thoughts! I'd still LOVE one tho :)
Hi NF, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As mentioned in the video Rocket has for years resisted digital displays. The display is removable and machine retains all info set using the touch display. If you like the digital displays check out the Bezzera Matrix: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-mn-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Also features side panels with changeable colors!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc, that looks more like it! Difficult to get the balance right between tradition and technology but I like the look of that machine :)
I want a commercial or at least a NSF rated cinquantotto maybe with a slightly larger brew boiler. I like the consumer body style. I think commercial espresso machines aren't as aesthetically pleasing.
Hey kom, Thanks for sharing your desires.
Marc
Legs only a mother could love
Lol - beauty is in the eye of the mother!
Marc
These machines are great but you have to consider a few things before buying them, which I hope I had known before.
Unless you are a well-to-do person or live nearby a certified service dealer to drop these machines personally for repair/maintenance, I would give a hard third or fifth look at the cost of owning these espresso machines.
They are heavy and big...How does $250 for UPS ground shipping sound to you every time you need to ship these machines for repair or maintenance?
Worse. How about paying this amount if your brand new machine comes with a defect under Warranty?
My Rocket Mozzafiato came with a seemingly PID related defect right out of the box, on dayb1
I called SCG who simply said “send it over to check it out” (in the meantime Whole Latte Love offered to troubleshoot it for me on the phone had I bought it from them to save shipping money). I had to spend out of my pocket $250 to ship this machine to SCG when I felt Rocket should have paid for a defect they created, right out of the box. I hope they tell me they had to replace the PID unit to make the expense worthwhile and don’t tell me now all it needed was a simple adjustment of the pump pressure control under the machine because that would really make me angry.
The real revelation of all this initial incursion into these espresso machine was to learn that every time I will need to send my Mozzafiato either to repair or regular maintenance, I will have to pay $250 a pop to UPS to cover packaging, shipping and insurance, as there are no local certified Rocket service dealer in Tampa.
I wish they had told me this when I was considering my purchase to factor this in the cost of repairing or maintaining the machine, and most particularly the cost of covering any shipping during the warranty period.
Hi CRR62, Thanks for the comments sharing your experience and highlighting things prospective owners should be aware of. I hope your vendor is able to resolve your trouble. It is true, one needs to keep maintenance in mind. Best analogy is auto ownership. You are going to need service at some point and if you don't DIY it's a service you will have to pay for. We do our best to help those who choose to DIY. It helps them save money, shipping hassles and machine downtime. I think we are fairly unique in providing direct customer support by phone, chat and email from our staff of product experts. Beyond that we have an extensive and growing library of support videos with detailed procedures for common issues. It does matter who one purchases from and it's in our DNA to provide the best support possible.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage tou are welcome. i feel
WLL has a more caring and supportive customer-oriented team than the one from that other competitor (SCG) on the west coast. Too bad I purchased my Mozzafiato from them before I discovered WLL
Big question! Can you measure the depth of the feet? Essentially, what is the minimum counter depth needed to have all four feet sturdily on the counter?
Hi Ryan, I sure can! It's 15.125 inches from back of back feet to front edge of front feet. That's 38.42cm. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage you rock!!! Thank you!
Loooooove ur vids.
My goodness, I thought Mr. Rocket (Andrew) loved his branding before, but now he has found even more spaces for 'R' or 'Rocket' labels.... maybe he should look at the Louis Vuitton style of branding, he could print 'R' all over the stainless steel.... Yes, I'm teasing Rocket a bit, but for a company that didn't want a PID because it messed up the purity of the classic Italian machine, it seems a bit perverse to then over-brand it.
Hi CM, Thanks for the comment. Yes, Rocket machines are heavy on the branding! I've known Andrew Meo who recently left the company for about 8 years. He's visited us here in NY and I have been to their domestic and commercial machine production facilities near Milan. He explained to me his intention for the R 58 was "sexy" machine true to the classics without the digital displays. Guess he considered the branding sexy!
Marc
If boilers were stainless and it steamed at 2 bar it would be impossible to beat
Hi GH, You just described the ECM Synchronika!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I just love the Rocket screen. The pid display on the Profitec and Synchronica are antiquated. You guys should work with them to update that.
still no 2 bar steam, and these feet look a bit awkward and is too high to fit under a low cabinet. Personally still prefer profitec/ECM
Hi, thanks for the comment. ECM/Profitec do lead in steam pressure in the Synchronika, Pro 600 and 700!
Marc
I've played with an r58 in person. There's enough steam power in there to make a Starbucks style venti latte. lol Just because it's not class leading, it doesn't mean it's not enough. :D
@@SurfandSand808 that's probably true. I personally practice latte art a lot, and on Ins I found people do amazing latte art all have very powerful machine, either LaMazzoco/Slayer, or commercial machines. So I'm honestly not sure if such difference in steam power matters, but I would get 2BAR just for better matching the commercial steaming power, so I'll get peace of mind.
@@SurfandSand808 BTW. just bought a ECM Synchronika couple days ago... :)
You read manuals, hence you're the expert.
Look who's laughing now, manual ignorers!
Lol!
"chin-kvan-taa-toh" 🤣🤣
It’s pronounced “oh-toe” not “auto”
Hi Anthony, thanks for the correction! Hopefully I came close once or twice. I’m not a native Italian speaker so I do my best!
Marc
Who ever made those legs should be fired. Probably was the owner, that andrew thinks he is a designer, but here is the proof he is not, together with the R9 design.
Hi EV, Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Marc
Dear Rocket. Give me Bluetooth/Wifi so I can use my phone and make the screen an option and charge me less. It will be hip, it will be cool, it will be something you will probably do anyway.
Hi Todd, Thanks for the comment. Will pass to Rocket. Not sure of their current plans but we are likely to see this in more machines.
Marc
First to comment!
Hi Frank, Wow you're fast! Thanks for the first.
Marc