*Contents:* 0:00 - Intro 0:24 - Good Stroke Timing 3:13 - Rushed/Impulsive Stroke 3:49 - Decelerating Stroke 4:40 - Constant Speed Stroke 5:10 - Bad Elbow Drop Timing 6:03 - Bad Eye Pattern Timing 6:59 - Bad Pre-Shot Routine Timing 8:16 - Bad Break Shot Timing 10:20 - Wrap Up *Supporting Resources:* - stroke best practices: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/ - stroke acceleration: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ - pre-shot routine best practices: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/pre-shot-routine/best-practices/ - elbow drop resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/ - eye pattern best practices: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/pattern/ - break technique advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/ *Videos Excerpt Sources:* - 10 Secrets of a GOOD STROKE in Pool: th-cam.com/video/JeZPLFW3MBg/w-d-xo.html - Pool BREAK SHOT Technique Advice - How to Break: th-cam.com/video/Av2DNdWzziA/w-d-xo.html - Shane Van Boening Break Technique Analysis by Dr. Dave: th-cam.com/video/WAEnKCL3stU/w-d-xo.html - Best Pool BREAK SHOTS of All Time in 9-ball, 10-ball, and 8-ball: th-cam.com/video/6jYtFvOUzbk/w-d-xo.html *Boot Camp Info:* - Billiard University Boot Camps: billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/ - Demetrius’ Minnesota Pool Boot Camp: mnpoolbootcamp.com
Good one! This is another of your videos where you talk about a tactic that I employ instinctively but have never, ever consciously thought about or analyzed. What you say is definitely true. 😊
Happy New Year Dr. Dave and Demetrius. Great lesson, thank you. Good timing is a core of the pool's strokes. It's an effortless action after hitting millions ball. Swing slowly...and hit harder in the same time is an unconscious competent. In the beginning, just try to inhale slowly and exhale slowly while relaxing our shoulders. Always pays attention to our grip (loosen) when back swing. Acceleration in loosen grip and abandoning follow through effortlessly. Keep breathing.
Upon revisiting this, I personally like to use phases depending on the shot I want to execute. One for draw, and another for follow. It can get tricky to memorize many of them, but it helps me stick to shot I've selected. Thanks Doc
There is no need to have a different stroke for draw vs. follow. The only required differences are tip height and speed (depending on what the specific shot calls for). For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/type-and-quality/
@@DrDaveBilliards No problem, I can explain. What I personally do is that the stroke will stay consistent, but when I'm executing a shot that I'll need to spin the ball for, the phrase will change slightly to fit the kind of spin that I'm using. So for follow, I'd have one exclusive phrase. For draw, I would have a different phrase. However, the stroke will remain the same. I'm most likely the only one who'll do this, and this may be to complicated for others, but I hope this make sense. Cheers.
@@DrDaveBilliards I’ll be giving you a shout out for sure (to my subs) as I’m positive this is my issue. I have been doing a great job beginning my forward stroke “more slowly” during routine shots but now that I’m working on power draws, my mind thinks rush rush rush into the back of the cue ball. Off to my table I go!!!!👍🏻😊
Agreed. FYI, a lot more videos dealing with these topics can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/ Enjoy!
One helpful thing I got from Mark Wilson was when accelerating smoothly thru the stroke, you want your back hand to swing similarly to how you would lob a baseball
I have been waiting for a video like that forever! I play golf and you can general enormous club head speed without having a fast swing speed. I never saw a video like that in pool and I feel it was lacking alot. Cue speed and swing speed have nothing to do with one an other you can generate alot of cue speed without rushing your stroke. Its all about timing! Amazing video thanks Doctor Dave and Jelatis!
I'm glad you finally found what you were waiting for. :) FYI, much more info related to this topic can be found under the different headings here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/ Enjoy!
Great information as always. Thanks Dave and happy new year ! For the next one, I'd suggest a study of different effects of cue tip size (diameter) and type ( soft ,medium, hard).
Thanks, and Happy New Year to you and everybody else also. FYI, I already have lots of good info dealing with tip size and hardness here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Enjoy!
Hey Dr. Dave! Great video here again. Just a quick question about eye timing - after the shot is complete, is it okay if the eyes track the shot if the head and body doesn’t move? If not, where should one look after the shot given the laser focus on the OB right before the shot? Thanks Dr. Dave!
It is best to maintain the still focus along the target line, but moving the eyes while keeping the head still is the next best thing. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/pattern/
You know, the bad break stroke remains me of my previous pool practice. I got a very bad stroke on 8 ball and 10 ball break. Either way, thanks for the demonstration, now that I improve some of the better break strokes. And HAPPY NEW YEAR 2022!!! Oh, one thing I want to say is that I think I’ll include some of your pool drills, advice, and BU exams from the BU Colostate website for my book. I even come out with a phrase created by me something like “Slow and steady gets a good stroke!” to get a very good pool strike(just a little inspiration the phrase you, Mark Wilson, and Samm Diep use).
Hello Dr.Dave ! French fan here, always really good content, thank you very much ! I’ve watch all of your videos about stance / stroke and it’s very helpful, but I have to admit that I’m a bit lost.I play since I’m 13 yo, and I only found out few months ago where was my Vision Center. It’s located between my right eye and my nose, closer to my nose. Unfortunately I’m a left handed player, so it’s really hard for me find my right and “final” stance, with what I think is called Cross Eye Dominancy ? I always feel like I need to bend my back or neck, or twist my head. I have the chance that I developed a “feel” through the years so I know how to make shots. But I often think about it while playing and it’s bothering me… I’d like to be sure and confident on my strokes and have a comfortable stance ! The shot at 7:11 shows that Demetrius is also Cross eyed dominant, isn’t he ? It would be great if you could both do a video / article about it ! Would be very helpful ! Thank you Dr Dave !
There is no secret here. It is just more difficult when your vision center is more away from your shooting side. The best advice I can offer is to find your "personal best stance" with your head in your "personal vision center" position, per the advice in this video: th-cam.com/video/Uqw5sCEx190/w-d-xo.html And if you get neck strain (or other pool ailments), some of the exercises and stretches here can help: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/exercise/
Thank you for this video, Dr. Dave! Quick question, when needing to generate a good deal of speed on a stroke, how can one tell the difference between a quicker acceleration and a rushed forward stroke? If one has a pause at the end of the final back stroke, does that help mitigate the likelihood of a rushed forward stroke? Also, I know you’ve said in other videos that a longer bridge length is associated with more tip point contact error (of course it also has a number of advantages as you discuss) - does the error estimate in the model TP A.10 get smaller as someone has more practice and can stroke with more accuracy and precision? Thanks Dr. Dave!
Excellent questions! It is usually obvious is somebody has smooth acceleration vs. a rushed jab/jerk/punch stroke. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ A backstroke pause definitely helps. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/pause/ A longer bridge can result in more error with a sloppy stroke. However, when fast speed is required, a longer/smoother stroke will be more accurate. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/length/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/ Enjoy!
Thank you Dr. Dave!! Those links were very helpful. The HSV was also helpful to see. Does it matter if the cue has reached maximum speed just before contact or if the cue is still accelerating through contact? Or does accelerate through the ball more so mean just don’t de accelerate before contact? Thanks again!’
@@philipv.mcharris5010 It is very rare for the cue to be accelerating a contact. "Accelerate through the ball" is just a good way to think about it to make sure you don't decelerate, which is common (especially among lesser players) and problematic. See the second section here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
This makes sense!! Thanks Dr. Dave! And one last quick question regarding follow through: I know in your follow through faq page you say most pros have a J stroke, is that more ideal vs a pendulum stroke where the elbow doesn’t move? I’ve been working to keep the elbow still from videos where you say that can increase accuracy. I also noticed that many of the pros you showcase in the best stroke practices video seem to not drop their elbow on many shots, but was wondering if a J stroke is the “ideal” stroke since many pros seem to use it intentionally or unintentionally
@@philipv.mcharris5010 The most important thing is to keep the elbow still during the stroke into the ball. What happens after the hit (during the follow through) is less important. I generally recommend keeping the elbow still during the entire stroke so it can't move during the stroke into the ball. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
Nice video, but I would have loved to hear a *LOT* more from Demetrius. He's a great player and intelligent student of the game. We've discussed some pool things before. Met him at DCC in 2019 I believe. If I recall, we both played Chris Melling that year (he was the returning champ). I missed a 9 ball to go hill hill! I honestly forget how Dimitrius did against him. Very cool guy tho with a lot to offer about pool
We had many long conversations during his visit. Later, we wished we had recorded them. They would have been good podcasts (even if they might have been a little too "unfiltered" at times). Maybe we'll do some podcasts together in the future.
When I break I bridge of the end rail I stand up into my shot transferring my weight into the shot I aim for a stop shot accelerating through the shot driving my Shaftinto the table where my shaft is flexed against the table resulting in A powerful break works quite well for me I'm also rather short and weigh about 220 not fat
Happy new year, Dr Dave! The second most evil role right behind the magician in my Pool Game which is still not created and only imaginary in my mind so far.
Dr Dave, I would love to see you do series where you take a beginner or fresh intermediate player and coach them through to more of an advanced level. Sometimes, with all of pools delicate intricacies, it can be hard to know what a player should be focusing on at any given time. I know the correct answer is "all of it" but certainly each skill and fundamental needs to be mastered and become second nature, before one can implement all techniques and theory.
I hoped to see slowmo footage and tip and cueball contact (length) to illustrate the difference between rushed technique, contact speed and smooth acceleration, if there is any. Maybe in part 2 of this video subject?
Good timing means being here early. Great information, as always, and thank you. Question: Was Demetrius using a "slip stroke" when he shot at his normal pace?
This is not timing this is technique. Timing is all about transferring to the ball what your brain wants to do . Anyone who has played at highest level with perfect technique will appreciate this . Think of the times when cue ball goes where you want it perfectly without thinking . In the zone ? No you are in perfect timing of brain to body . The brain is amazingly powerful
"Timing" could also be interpreted as "pace of play" ... and many other things, but I think most people interpret it as the "stroke timing" stuff explained in the video.
When using masse, do the same "good timing" parameters apply? (Obviously, you don't want to strike the pool table surface, so a follow through can't be as long as what you two were demonstrating....right?)
You do want to accelerate smoothly and follow through on a masse shot also. There is nothing wrong with hitting the table with the tip. For more info and demonstrations, see the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/masse/technique/
I think Dr. Dave should make a video on how to discreetly, but effectively, tell your playing partners when they're running afoul of these stroke fundamentals.
Just discretely send them a text or e-mail linking to this video. Even better, tell them to check out all the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/
Hi Dr. Dave, I was reading the SPF on your website and saw it said, “The player’s body is held completely still in the set position for at least three seconds.” In the best practices document though it just says a distinct pause. Is it best to count out 3-5 seconds, or is that more so a technique in the fundamentals course to get use to having quiet eyes and checking alignment? Thank you for all the helpful content!!
I think your right .But I seen some weird strokes from all kinds of players .Tha don't seem to miss so much. I don't don't know how they shoot so consistently. It's seems impossible but seems to alright.I have a bad habit of turning my head.Qhen I catch it I get alot better break
@@DrDaveBilliards very few will thou Dr Dave .. it's so sad that the most potent videos have the lowest views.... I watch your channel for growth... And when I look at the views it speaks volume....
Happy New Year Dr Dave...I have a strange question....Say its below freezing and you had ( all wood) cue in the trunk for a few hours before a game. Does this actually affects the way the cue plays? Until its "warmed up"....
The efficiency of the hit might be slightly different, but I can't imagine the effect is important enough to care about. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/
@@DrDaveBilliards My table is in a detached garage, where it is regularly below freezing during the winter. I had wondered this same thing. I do believe there is a difference with the rail cushions, though, which seem to be "deader." Is this something you've previously covered, also?
@@kurtkensson2059 I haven't really "covered" this, but I am aware of it. Humidity (which often varies with temperature) can also have a big effect on many things. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/humidity-effects/ Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dr Dave....It was a topic that came up when of the regulars at the Pool hall used my cue for a few shots. It had been in my trunk for 3 hours before on a 30 degree day...I immediately thought Dr Dave....
Great video. Curious what your thoughts are on Francisco Bustamantes finese stroke. In my view it almost always looks like he's decelerating through the ball, on the real delicate shots. Wondering if there's any benefit to this or if it's a flaw and he's just playing well despite it (which is probably something that could be said of all the curly cue arm action that is a natural part of his pre shot feather strokes).
Hi Dr. Dave! Quick question here. I’ve been trying to work on my speed control but I find that when I only need the ball to move a small amount and I shorten by bridge length, when I try to ensure I’m accelerating through the ball it travels too far. Do you have any suggestions on how to think about speed control for short distance / finesse shots while still accelerating through the ball? Thanks a bunch!!
As someone that has a PhD in a physics emphasis, does it pain you to say "deceleration?"😂 When i have good timing, or pause at the backswing, i tend to have early elbow drop.
I have no problem saying "deceleration." It is a valid physics term and people know what it means. Concerning early elbow drop (which is not good for tip-contact-point and speed-control accuracy and consistency), if you want help getting rid of it, see the "How can I get rid of elbow drop?" section here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/
My stroke timing is good, but my break timing has always been terrible (cue ball glancing off head ball instead of hitting it flush, etc). I got a carbon shaft with a phenolic tip, and started breaking with “full power shot speed”, and my what a difference. Hit square every time, and much better breaks without having to wind up for a driver swing
It is possible the "natural pivot length" of the new break cue is better suited to your preferred bridge length. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks for the reply, as always. It could be that too, as it is slightly different length than the wood shaft, but also I just don’t put my body into the break now, and it seems to be a lot better.
Less body is generally better. You should only use as much power as you can control. For more break technique advice, see the videos, articles, and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/ Enjoy!
It sounds like your problem is less timing related and more accuracy related. By minimizing your body movement, you've partially solved the accuracy problem. A great tip I once received is this: (especially if you want any degree of body movement/rotation)...keep your center of vision on the shot line. Just practice breaking and do whatever you want body wise, just make sure to pay attention to your center of vision remaining on the shot line. I got to the point where I could smash the front ball at 25-27mph, and hit it dead full and squat the cueball. I don't really break like that anymore, but if you can, its a hell of an 8 ball break
"Peanut butter and Jelly." I prefer to say NOTHING and just know the feel, rather than distract my mind with language. "Don't think. Act." - Bruce Lee But Lee also said, "You need to combine (instinct and control) in harmony." This stuff ain't just for martial arts. It's for everything in life. "Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless. Like water. You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can trickle, or it can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
While shooting is not the time to be thinking. But while working on your game during practicing, a little thinking and self talk can be useful to help create better habits so they will come natural when playing for real.
@@DrDaveBilliards Yeah! Ok, you're right (as usual 🙂)! So, of course the stroke has to become natural/internalized, first... THEN "empty your mind", as in all things we learn. (I wasn't thinking about the learning part of it when I wrote that.) lol: I didn't think. I acted, but I didn't combine instinct and control in harmony.
Happy New Year to you and everybody else too!!! I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm a professional instructor, not a pro player. I'm too old and don't play at the level required to be competitive in the Mosconi Cup.
@@kerrymcauliffe9906 Demetrius might not be Mosconi Cup material (yet), but he is definitely a very strong player. We played a lot during his visit. I didn't get to shoot much (except when I broke and ran on occasion).
The P3 plays *extremely* solid. I'd certainly recommend it to someone who likes the way it feels, looks, and plays. The Revo shaft has substantially lower squirt than the Cuetec shaft. This will require adjustment, but my experience is that it is usually easier to adjust to less deflection than to more. The hit of the Revo is not quite as solid and "muted" feeling as the Cuetec. However, I'd argue that the energy transfer is a bit better. To me, the Revo is the "most" carbon fiber...like it maxes out the qualities of carbon fiber. Absolutely worth a try. Many will argue that the feel of the Cuetec is better, and not without merit. It is just different. I recommend borrowing someone's Revo and giving it a try.
I do go to the VNEA Nationals in Vegas periodically, but I don't have any videos to share. I do have videos of me playing at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave
It could make a miniscule difference, but I don't think this would be of any importance. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
I'm no expert, but I think the hardness of the tip is what affects that the most. Which I think is why a soft tip can be easier to generate spin with, because it is in contact with the cue ball for longer.
@@geoff1827 And has larger contact area, which increases grip just like a wide tire on a race or high performance street car. The ultimate example of this in on AA fuel dragsters, or rails. They run so little pressure in VERY wide and soft slick tires that they have to bolt the tires to the rims and the slick's walls wrinkle like crazy at launch. This gives them a very large static contact patch, in both axes. And those guys are the ultimate level of trying to get grip, as they accelerate at about 4 gs on 10,000 HP.
@@geoff1827 Tip hardness does have an effect of tip contact time: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ but this has no practical effect on how much spin can be applied. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@@DrDaveBilliards Action reaction. A cue tip has a modulus of elasticity and compresses and rebounds in an instant. So the tip hardness choice a player makes changes those dynamics and is the main factor. The cue tip actually represents a tiny "torque arm" that gets applied to the cue ball all in the instant the impact takes place. A softer tip usually results in more microseconds of "tip time" for what to us seems to be an instantaneous event, so any off dead center cueing applies that tiny torque arm and that "tractoring" effect is how spin gets applied to the cue ball that is other than the normal spin it gains from a straight roll. A hard breaker uses a hard tip and a stiff cue to apply as much on axis force to the cue ball as possible. Any follow or draw or English added to that stroke and contact will have a very small amount of time to 'function', yet it still does. Less than a firm, soft tipped cue break, which is also a fast event. The soft tip break can actually apply more spin and be further off center before the point of miscue occurs. The key to a good stroke is co-linearity with your intended 'line-of-fire'. That is why the elbow drop and wrist curl stuff is bad. With a good stroke, I have seen even a miscue still roll right and go. The way the ball comes off the cue tip at the slowest roll speeds and the fastest hard stroke speeds is still usually faster than the stroke itself. And if you accelerate your cue after contact and hit it again, you foul.
Isn't your first slow motion of your long backswing stroke demonstrating a 'rushed transition'. If you look at the photo in your wall the jerk is moving your head out of position as you hit
Good observation. I don't think my small head lift there is due to jerking the transition. That's just a bad habit I have on fast-speed shots. It also more difficult to keep the head as still with fast-speed shots, even with a smooth transition and acceleration.
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this (other than learning to play opposite-handed, which isn't easy for most people). I am not aware of any physical issues for Demetrius yet, but some day he might need the advice here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/exercise/
I stay very busy with lessons, courses, and video production, so I don't get out much. The only events I plan to attend this coming year are the BCA Trade Show and VNEA Championship tournaments in Vegas.
There are many pro examples of great strokes. See the end of my "10 Secrets of a GOOD STROKE in Pool" video for other examples: th-cam.com/video/JeZPLFW3MBg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, DrDave. For this shot: th-cam.com/video/Jt88yNohWm8/w-d-xo.html I realize I ran afoul of a couple of fundamentals (shoulder involved when it should only be the arm and transition too fast) . So perhaps, I can get even more zing! So hard to do though because your body is telling you to use all your muscles whereas the opposite is true - smooth acceleration not abbreviated acceleration! Also, maybe I missed it in the video, but why is a relaxed grip better than a tight grip? How does a tight grip impede progress?
Nice job. For lots of good draw and power draw advice, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/power/ Concerning grip, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/technique/ Tightening or tensing the grip or arm usually constrains and limits acceleration.
Why is deceleration bad? Does it cause cue deviation from the shot aim line resulting in a missed shot? It’s not obvious to me why cue deceleration would be bad.
I can understand how deceleration would have a negative effect on draw shots, but don't understand how it results in poorer speed control than acceleration. Why would acceleration be better for speed control than deceleration? Is there some biomechanical effect that favors accelerating the cue compared to decelerating it?@@DrDaveBilliards
@@GreenThumb121 You don’t want acceleration at tip contact, but you do want a smoothly accelerating stroke with no deceleration. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/good-timing/ I mentioned part of the answer my recent “STROKE TIMING … A Complete MythBusting Study of Stroke Acceleration Effects” video: th-cam.com/video/0m6g7lBh17c/w-d-xo.html Slight changes in acceleration timing won’t affect the speed very much (with no deceleration).
Wow! Very impressive work to understand tip contact time. However, this careful and elegant work doesn't address or show that cue deceleration at contact affects speed control. From time to time, I hear knowledgeable commentators such as Mark Wilson and Jeremy Jones speak about a missed shot or missed position play as being caused by cue deceleration, and I've been wondering why they say that. But maybe there is a biomechanical effect that they do know about, but aren't explaining. I thought you might know if deceleration causes deviation of the cue from the aim line.@@DrDaveBilliards
Good eye. You are correct. That actually wasn't done on purpose. The guy that was racking for me (Randy) just wasn't being very careful with template orientation. I probably hit about 100 breaks that day!
Everybody has a unique "vision center" position. His is off-center quite a bit, but that is not uncommon. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Timing is hard to describe when you already have a great stroke. I think your speed chart is a hair off however. As in golf, the snap should be ahead of the ball, but your chart shows no snap at all. In fact it shows deceleration. As for eye timing - in pool you try to make every shot as easy as possible by getting good shape. With this you can basically ignore the cue ball. The more difficult the shot, the more you must concentrate on the cue ball, I find.
Good pool players do not have a "snap" before CB contact. The speed maxes out at contact. I know that it might feel like there is a snap or that you are still accelerating at impact, but careful measurements and theory suggest otherwise. For more info, see the videos, links, and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
@@DrDaveBilliards I've heard some do generate some minor additional power on breaks from tightening their grip during contact, and I haven't looked yet but I expect some pros do use a wrist snap. The problem is with extra techniques like that and shoulder drops and even shoulder rotation it is MUCH harder to maintain the needed control, so it requires a lot more practice, I've found. I should take some slow motion looks at Busty's breaks, if you want to look at speed generation there is a good place to look. Many times I have seen that the pros that are breaking softer are breaking better on some tables, including Shane. In some tournaments you see him really slow down, within reason, because of the 3 point break rule, which is outright stupid at times. Hit the rack hard, sink two balls, and leave the rock a 1/4 turn short of the kitchen and it's an illegal break. I think there are better ways to implement the no soft break rule.
@@MrJdsenior Good points. Yes, on some shots (e.g., power break and power draw), some players do tighten their grip and flick their wrist a little just before CB contact to gain a little extra power. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/wrist/
This is all great fundamental stuff and should be required viewing for newbs looking to become a more serious player. But then you watch some of the pros and all this gets blown out of the water. Message being don't necessarily copy some of the pros. Take Alan Hopkins for example. Poke stroke but worked well for him. There are other glaring examples. If you want to emulate a pro, Pan Xaioting would be a good choice.
I discuss this and show good pro examples of both "unorthodox strokes" and "models of best practices" in my "10 Secrets of a GOOD STROKE in Pool" video: th-cam.com/video/JeZPLFW3MBg/w-d-xo.html Check it out.
@@DrDaveBilliards Ha. I see you mention Alan Hopkins too. I mention Pan Xaioting as someone to emulate fundamentals because hers are pretty much flawless. Then there's the added bonus of watching her but this is a family billiards channel so we won't go there.
@@beercanbrian1880 I'm just another ugly dude, but I don't break mirrors at least... so I would not be able to help you there, but I would say I am unorthodox... Click my name Oh... go ahead... go there.
I always thought of "timing" in pool as being the cue ball roll timing on my bank shots to keep a double kiss from occurring. My strokes range from chin right down on the stick standard fare all the way to elevated cue jab shots, and a good many in between, so for me the 'timing' there is an individual, per shot situation. Because as you know, the 'standard fare' is my least used method.
I prefer to belch right as I am going to shoot and always say as it comes out... "Bah! Humbug!" Besides the beer allowing me to shoot better, it allows me to annunciate my "chi" as I stroke as well. Even an occasional endorphin rush. :-) I also like to say "Jib Jab" as I stroke. Eh... just ribbin' you guys. You know me... Mr. Unorthodox.
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:24 - Good Stroke Timing
3:13 - Rushed/Impulsive Stroke
3:49 - Decelerating Stroke
4:40 - Constant Speed Stroke
5:10 - Bad Elbow Drop Timing
6:03 - Bad Eye Pattern Timing
6:59 - Bad Pre-Shot Routine Timing
8:16 - Bad Break Shot Timing
10:20 - Wrap Up
*Supporting Resources:*
- stroke best practices: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
- stroke acceleration: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
- pre-shot routine best practices: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/pre-shot-routine/best-practices/
- elbow drop resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/
- eye pattern best practices: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/pattern/
- break technique advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/
*Videos Excerpt Sources:*
- 10 Secrets of a GOOD STROKE in Pool: th-cam.com/video/JeZPLFW3MBg/w-d-xo.html
- Pool BREAK SHOT Technique Advice - How to Break: th-cam.com/video/Av2DNdWzziA/w-d-xo.html
- Shane Van Boening Break Technique Analysis by Dr. Dave: th-cam.com/video/WAEnKCL3stU/w-d-xo.html
- Best Pool BREAK SHOTS of All Time in 9-ball, 10-ball, and 8-ball: th-cam.com/video/6jYtFvOUzbk/w-d-xo.html
*Boot Camp Info:*
- Billiard University Boot Camps: billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/
- Demetrius’ Minnesota Pool Boot Camp: mnpoolbootcamp.com
I wish TH-cam had more than a thumbs up. Excellent video, Dave!
Thank you! And you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Good one! This is another of your videos where you talk about a tactic that I employ instinctively but have never, ever consciously thought about or analyzed. What you say is definitely true. 😊
Thanks. I'm glad you related to it.
Thx a lot. After struggle with my stroke for about a month later, I finally found your video. Thx god.
I’m glad to here it helped. Good luck with your game.
Happy New Year Dr. Dave and Demetrius. Great lesson, thank you.
Good timing is a core of the pool's strokes. It's an effortless action after hitting millions ball. Swing slowly...and hit harder in the same time is an unconscious competent. In the beginning, just try to inhale slowly and exhale slowly while relaxing our shoulders. Always pays attention to our grip (loosen) when back swing. Acceleration in loosen grip and abandoning follow through effortlessly. Keep breathing.
You’re welcome. Thank you for watching.
Yes sir, my 9 foot is set up! I finally get to use all this great info, thanks!
I'm glad to hear it. Enjoy the table!
I'm jelly.....all I have is a bar box.....that I actually did buy from a bar.
The visuals helped explain each example clearly
Demetrius will be happy to hear this.
Upon revisiting this, I personally like to use phases depending on the shot I want to execute. One for draw, and another for follow. It can get tricky to memorize many of them, but it helps me stick to shot I've selected. Thanks Doc
There is no need to have a different stroke for draw vs. follow. The only required differences are tip height and speed (depending on what the specific shot calls for). For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/type-and-quality/
@@DrDaveBilliards Oh most definitely Dave. The stroke stays consistent. I was talking about the phrase.
@@867star Sorry. I didn't know what you meant by different "phases" (or "phrases"?).
@@DrDaveBilliards No problem, I can explain. What I personally do is that the stroke will stay consistent, but when I'm executing a shot that I'll need to spin the ball for, the phrase will change slightly to fit the kind of spin that I'm using. So for follow, I'd have one exclusive phrase. For draw, I would have a different phrase. However, the stroke will remain the same. I'm most likely the only one who'll do this, and this may be to complicated for others, but I hope this make sense. Cheers.
Excellent timing Dr. Dave…I’m working on this issue right now…great tutorial 👍🏻👍🏻😊
I'm glad to hear it. I hope the info in my video helps.
@@DrDaveBilliards I’ll be giving you a shout out for sure (to my subs) as I’m positive this is my issue.
I have been doing a great job beginning my forward stroke “more slowly” during routine shots but now that I’m working on power draws, my mind thinks rush rush rush into the back of the cue ball.
Off to my table I go!!!!👍🏻😊
@@ronthepoolstudent Thanks, and good luck!
This is a great video. Thank you Dave.
I’m glad you liked it.
Great subject matter video Dr. Dave & Demetrius!! Happy New Year to you both and thanks for the great collaboration videos!!
Thanks! Happy New Year to you and everybody else also!
Second time watching this... Very important consept that is so powerful...to the stroke....and cueball control
Agreed. FYI, a lot more videos dealing with these topics can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/
and here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/
Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards appreciate this will certainly be watching now as we speak
One helpful thing I got from Mark Wilson was when accelerating smoothly thru the stroke, you want your back hand to swing similarly to how you would lob a baseball
"Ladies ... and ... gentlemen!"
I have been waiting for a video like that forever!
I play golf and you can general enormous club head speed without having a fast swing speed. I never saw a video like that in pool and I feel it was lacking alot.
Cue speed and swing speed have nothing to do with one an other you can generate alot of cue speed without rushing your stroke. Its all about timing!
Amazing video thanks Doctor Dave and Jelatis!
I'm glad you finally found what you were waiting for. :)
FYI, much more info related to this topic can be found under the different headings here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/
Enjoy!
Impulsive stroke. That's me-- king of the rabbit punch! Great video!
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks!
Great information as always. Thanks Dave and happy new year !
For the next one, I'd suggest a study of different effects of cue tip size (diameter) and type ( soft ,medium, hard).
Thanks, and Happy New Year to you and everybody else also.
FYI, I already have lots of good info dealing with tip size and hardness here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
and here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
Enjoy!
Love the slip stroke Demetrius has at 1:04. Great video Dr. Dave.
I don't think he is trying to do a "slip stroke." His grip is just very relaxed (as it should be).
Hey Dr. Dave! Great video here again. Just a quick question about eye timing - after the shot is complete, is it okay if the eyes track the shot if the head and body doesn’t move? If not, where should one look after the shot given the laser focus on the OB right before the shot? Thanks Dr. Dave!
It is best to maintain the still focus along the target line, but moving the eyes while keeping the head still is the next best thing. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/pattern/
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you Dr. Dave!!
@@philipv.mcharris5010 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
You know, the bad break stroke remains me of my previous pool practice. I got a very bad stroke on 8 ball and 10 ball break. Either way, thanks for the demonstration, now that I improve some of the better break strokes. And HAPPY NEW YEAR 2022!!! Oh, one thing I want to say is that I think I’ll include some of your pool drills, advice, and BU exams from the BU Colostate website for my book. I even come out with a phrase created by me something like “Slow and steady gets a good stroke!” to get a very good pool strike(just a little inspiration the phrase you, Mark Wilson, and Samm Diep use).
Hello Dr.Dave ! French fan here, always really good content, thank you very much !
I’ve watch all of your videos about stance / stroke and it’s very helpful, but I have to admit that I’m a bit lost.I play since I’m 13 yo, and I only found out few months ago where was my Vision Center. It’s located between my right eye and my nose, closer to my nose. Unfortunately I’m a left handed player, so it’s really hard for me find my right and “final” stance, with what I think is called Cross Eye Dominancy ?
I always feel like I need to bend my back or neck, or twist my head. I have the chance that I developed a “feel” through the years so I know how to make shots. But I often think about it while playing and it’s bothering me… I’d like to be sure and confident on my strokes and have a comfortable stance !
The shot at 7:11 shows that Demetrius is also Cross eyed dominant, isn’t he ? It would be great if you could both do a video / article about it ! Would be very helpful !
Thank you Dr Dave !
There is no secret here. It is just more difficult when your vision center is more away from your shooting side. The best advice I can offer is to find your "personal best stance" with your head in your "personal vision center" position, per the advice in this video:
th-cam.com/video/Uqw5sCEx190/w-d-xo.html
And if you get neck strain (or other pool ailments), some of the exercises and stretches here can help:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/exercise/
Thank you for this video, Dr. Dave! Quick question, when needing to generate a good deal of speed on a stroke, how can one tell the difference between a quicker acceleration and a rushed forward stroke? If one has a pause at the end of the final back stroke, does that help mitigate the likelihood of a rushed forward stroke?
Also, I know you’ve said in other videos that a longer bridge length is associated with more tip point contact error (of course it also has a number of advantages as you discuss) - does the error estimate in the model TP A.10 get smaller as someone has more practice and can stroke with more accuracy and precision?
Thanks Dr. Dave!
Excellent questions!
It is usually obvious is somebody has smooth acceleration vs. a rushed jab/jerk/punch stroke. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
A backstroke pause definitely helps. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/pause/
A longer bridge can result in more error with a sloppy stroke. However, when fast speed is required, a longer/smoother stroke will be more accurate. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/length/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/
Enjoy!
Thank you Dr. Dave!! Those links were very helpful. The HSV was also helpful to see. Does it matter if the cue has reached maximum speed just before contact or if the cue is still accelerating through contact? Or does accelerate through the ball more so mean just don’t de accelerate before contact?
Thanks again!’
@@philipv.mcharris5010 It is very rare for the cue to be accelerating a contact. "Accelerate through the ball" is just a good way to think about it to make sure you don't decelerate, which is common (especially among lesser players) and problematic. See the second section here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
This makes sense!! Thanks Dr. Dave! And one last quick question regarding follow through: I know in your follow through faq page you say most pros have a J stroke, is that more ideal vs a pendulum stroke where the elbow doesn’t move? I’ve been working to keep the elbow still from videos where you say that can increase accuracy. I also noticed that many of the pros you showcase in the best stroke practices video seem to not drop their elbow on many shots, but was wondering if a J stroke is the “ideal” stroke since many pros seem to use it intentionally or unintentionally
@@philipv.mcharris5010 The most important thing is to keep the elbow still during the stroke into the ball. What happens after the hit (during the follow through) is less important. I generally recommend keeping the elbow still during the entire stroke so it can't move during the stroke into the ball. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
Nice video, but I would have loved to hear a *LOT* more from Demetrius. He's a great player and intelligent student of the game. We've discussed some pool things before. Met him at DCC in 2019 I believe. If I recall, we both played Chris Melling that year (he was the returning champ). I missed a 9 ball to go hill hill! I honestly forget how Dimitrius did against him. Very cool guy tho with a lot to offer about pool
We had many long conversations during his visit. Later, we wished we had recorded them. They would have been good podcasts (even if they might have been a little too "unfiltered" at times). Maybe we'll do some podcasts together in the future.
When I break I bridge of the end rail I stand up into my shot transferring my weight into the shot I aim for a stop shot accelerating through the shot driving my Shaftinto the table where my shaft is flexed against the table resulting in A powerful break works quite well for me I'm also rather short and weigh about 220 not fat
Thank you. Very good video.
You're welcome, and thank you.
very helpful thank you
You’re welcome.
Back slow and accelerate I like that Dave is best to add it in my pre stroke routine 😀🙂
Happy new year, Dr Dave! The second most evil role right behind the magician in my Pool Game which is still not created and only imaginary in my mind so far.
Happy New Year! Let's hope 2022 is better than 2020 and 2021.
@@DrDaveBilliards Ummm... OK... Yer crackers, dude! ;-) Happy New Year to all.
Dr Dave, I would love to see you do series where you take a beginner or fresh intermediate player and coach them through to more of an advanced level. Sometimes, with all of pools delicate intricacies, it can be hard to know what a player should be focusing on at any given time. I know the correct answer is "all of it" but certainly each skill and fundamental needs to be mastered and become second nature, before one can implement all techniques and theory.
That would be interesting, but every student is unique. I do many things differently with different students.
I hoped to see slowmo footage and tip and cueball contact (length) to illustrate the difference between rushed technique, contact speed and smooth acceleration, if there is any. Maybe in part 2 of this video subject?
See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
Good timing means being here early. Great information, as always, and thank you. Question: Was Demetrius using a "slip stroke" when he shot at his normal pace?
Demetrius' grip is very relaxed (as it should be), but I don't think he uses a "slip stroke."
I saw a little slip grip, may be unintentionally.
@@junusbaan7787 I just saw it in the video also. As far as I know, it was not intentional, but I will ask him the next time we talk.
@@DrDaveBilliards I thought you might, after reviewing it.
This is not timing this is technique. Timing is all about transferring to the ball what your brain wants to do . Anyone who has played at highest level with perfect technique will appreciate this . Think of the times when cue ball goes where you want it perfectly without thinking . In the zone ? No you are in perfect timing of brain to body . The brain is amazingly powerful
"Timing" could also be interpreted as "pace of play" ... and many other things, but I think most people interpret it as the "stroke timing" stuff explained in the video.
@@DrDaveBilliards I totally get what you saying and its true ..To me tho the stroke breaks down under pressure not technique ..timing is in the head
When using masse, do the same "good timing" parameters apply? (Obviously, you don't want to strike the pool table surface, so a follow through can't be as long as what you two were demonstrating....right?)
You do want to accelerate smoothly and follow through on a masse shot also. There is nothing wrong with hitting the table with the tip. For more info and demonstrations, see the videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/masse/technique/
I think Dr. Dave should make a video on how to discreetly, but effectively, tell your playing partners when they're running afoul of these stroke fundamentals.
Just discretely send them a text or e-mail linking to this video. Even better, tell them to check out all the videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/
Hi Dr. Dave, I was reading the SPF on your website and saw it said, “The player’s body is held completely still in the set position for at least three seconds.” In the best practices document though it just says a distinct pause. Is it best to count out 3-5 seconds, or is that more so a technique in the fundamentals course to get use to having quiet eyes and checking alignment? Thank you for all the helpful content!!
The exact duration of time isn't important. What is important is that you not rush this important step.
Thank you, Dr. Dave! You’re the best!
@@philipv.mcharris5010 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Great vid, needed, thx.
Thank you, and you're welcome.
I think your right .But I seen some weird strokes from all kinds of players .Tha don't seem to miss so much. I don't don't know how they shoot so consistently. It's seems impossible but seems to alright.I have a bad habit of turning my head.Qhen I catch it I get alot better break
Any technique can be mastered with enough practice and ability, but some techniques are easier and faster to master than others.
See Keith Mcready besides having his hand turned he had all sorts of body movements....th-cam.com/video/oQVnT7D-OYM/w-d-xo.html
@@letsgonow5641 Yep. Tough to watch. Makes me cringe.
Absolutely great knowledge here so powerful.... Only potentially great players will find the value in this video
I agree. Many people could benefit from this info.
@@DrDaveBilliards very few will thou Dr Dave .. it's so sad that the most potent videos have the lowest views.... I watch your channel for growth... And when I look at the views it speaks volume....
Again, I agree. People like to watch stuff they want which isn't always what they need. :(
Happy New Year Dr Dave...I have a strange question....Say its below freezing and you had ( all wood) cue in the trunk for a few hours before a game. Does this actually affects the way the cue plays? Until its "warmed up"....
The efficiency of the hit might be slightly different, but I can't imagine the effect is important enough to care about. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/
@@DrDaveBilliards My table is in a detached garage, where it is regularly below freezing during the winter. I had wondered this same thing. I do believe there is a difference with the rail cushions, though, which seem to be "deader." Is this something you've previously covered, also?
@@kurtkensson2059 I haven't really "covered" this, but I am aware of it. Humidity (which often varies with temperature) can also have a big effect on many things. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/humidity-effects/
Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you, Sir! I'm constantly amazed at the breadth of your research into the variables of this "game."
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dr Dave....It was a topic that came up when of the regulars at the Pool hall used my cue for a few shots. It had been in my trunk for 3 hours before on a 30 degree day...I immediately thought Dr Dave....
Great video. Curious what your thoughts are on Francisco Bustamantes finese stroke. In my view it almost always looks like he's decelerating through the ball, on the real delicate shots. Wondering if there's any benefit to this or if it's a flaw and he's just playing well despite it (which is probably something that could be said of all the curly cue arm action that is a natural part of his pre shot feather strokes).
Busty has played long enough to master anything. What he does with his stroke is certainly not what is considered "best practices."
Hi Dr. Dave! Quick question here. I’ve been trying to work on my speed control but I find that when I only need the ball to move a small amount and I shorten by bridge length, when I try to ensure I’m accelerating through the ball it travels too far. Do you have any suggestions on how to think about speed control for short distance / finesse shots while still accelerating through the ball?
Thanks a bunch!!
All advice I have on this topic is here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/
The key is to go back slowly and accelerate smoothly.
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you, Dr. Dave! I came across the speed control video after asking the question - watching now! Thanks again!
As someone that has a PhD in a physics emphasis, does it pain you to say "deceleration?"😂 When i have good timing, or pause at the backswing, i tend to have early elbow drop.
I have no problem saying "deceleration." It is a valid physics term and people know what it means.
Concerning early elbow drop (which is not good for tip-contact-point and speed-control accuracy and consistency), if you want help getting rid of it, see the "How can I get rid of elbow drop?" section here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/
My stroke timing is good, but my break timing has always been terrible (cue ball glancing off head ball instead of hitting it flush, etc). I got a carbon shaft with a phenolic tip, and started breaking with “full power shot speed”, and my what a difference. Hit square every time, and much better breaks without having to wind up for a driver swing
It is possible the "natural pivot length" of the new break cue is better suited to your preferred bridge length. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks for the reply, as always. It could be that too, as it is slightly different length than the wood shaft, but also I just don’t put my body into the break now, and it seems to be a lot better.
Less body is generally better. You should only use as much power as you can control. For more break technique advice, see the videos, articles, and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/
Enjoy!
It sounds like your problem is less timing related and more accuracy related. By minimizing your body movement, you've partially solved the accuracy problem. A great tip I once received is this: (especially if you want any degree of body movement/rotation)...keep your center of vision on the shot line. Just practice breaking and do whatever you want body wise, just make sure to pay attention to your center of vision remaining on the shot line. I got to the point where I could smash the front ball at 25-27mph, and hit it dead full and squat the cueball. I don't really break like that anymore, but if you can, its a hell of an 8 ball break
"Peanut butter and Jelly." I prefer to say NOTHING and just know the feel, rather than distract my mind with language.
"Don't think. Act." - Bruce Lee
But Lee also said, "You need to combine (instinct and control) in harmony." This stuff ain't just for martial arts. It's for everything in life.
"Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless. Like water.
You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup.
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle.
You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can trickle, or it can flow, or it can crash.
Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
While shooting is not the time to be thinking. But while working on your game during practicing, a little thinking and self talk can be useful to help create better habits so they will come natural when playing for real.
@@DrDaveBilliards Yeah! Ok, you're right (as usual 🙂)! So, of course the stroke has to become natural/internalized, first... THEN "empty your mind", as in all things we learn. (I wasn't thinking about the learning part of it when I wrote that.)
lol: I didn't think. I acted, but I didn't combine instinct and control in harmony.
Do you use the center extension all the time?
Yes. I am 6'3" and needed the extra cue length.
@@DrDaveBilliards I am also 6'3" and I've got the same one you have and a different one. I'm always unsure about it.
What kind of stroke does SVB refer to in this video?
Most pros, including SVB, have a "smooth acceleration" stroke.
Demetrius has an excellent stroke. That is what I am trying to emulate.
Agreed. FYI, I have a lot more advice concerning stroke "best practices" here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
Check it out.
Happy New Year Dr Dave! I hope you can play mosconi cup representing Team USA.
Happy New Year to you and everybody else too!!!
I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm a professional instructor, not a pro player. I'm too old and don't play at the level required to be competitive in the Mosconi Cup.
@@DrDaveBilliards Dimitrius, on the other hand, might do some damage. Watched him go deep at Turning Stone
@@kerrymcauliffe9906 Demetrius might not be Mosconi Cup material (yet), but he is definitely a very strong player. We played a lot during his visit. I didn't get to shoot much (except when I broke and ran on occasion).
N. 28 • 4 minutes ago
Hello bro „, I have a cuetec carbon and I'm
thinking of changing to predator. What would
you advise me, sp2, p3?
The only one I’ve played with is the P3, but the butt really isn’t that important. The shaft is what really matters.
The P3 plays *extremely* solid. I'd certainly recommend it to someone who likes the way it feels, looks, and plays. The Revo shaft has substantially lower squirt than the Cuetec shaft. This will require adjustment, but my experience is that it is usually easier to adjust to less deflection than to more. The hit of the Revo is not quite as solid and "muted" feeling as the Cuetec. However, I'd argue that the energy transfer is a bit better. To me, the Revo is the "most" carbon fiber...like it maxes out the qualities of carbon fiber. Absolutely worth a try. Many will argue that the feel of the Cuetec is better, and not without merit. It is just different. I recommend borrowing someone's Revo and giving it a try.
@@kerrymcauliffe9906 thank you sooo soo much bro 😍❤️❤️❤️
@@kerrymcauliffe9906 When I buy one, I'll tell you. 😁❤️❤️
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks bro
Question why doesn't Dr Dave compete in tournaments? 🤔 would love to see him compete 😄
I do go to the VNEA Nationals in Vegas periodically, but I don't have any videos to share. I do have videos of me playing at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave
Does the stroke timing affect how long the tip is in contact with the cue ball?
It could make a miniscule difference, but I don't think this would be of any importance. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
I'm no expert, but I think the hardness of the tip is what affects that the most. Which I think is why a soft tip can be easier to generate spin with, because it is in contact with the cue ball for longer.
@@geoff1827 And has larger contact area, which increases grip just like a wide tire on a race or high performance street car.
The ultimate example of this in on AA fuel dragsters, or rails. They run so little pressure in VERY wide and soft slick tires that they have to bolt the tires to the rims and the slick's walls wrinkle like crazy at launch.
This gives them a very large static contact patch, in both axes. And those guys are the ultimate level of trying to get grip, as they accelerate at about 4 gs on 10,000 HP.
@@geoff1827 Tip hardness does have an effect of tip contact time:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
but this has no practical effect on how much spin can be applied. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@@DrDaveBilliards Action reaction. A cue tip has a modulus of elasticity and compresses and rebounds in an instant.
So the tip hardness choice a player makes changes those dynamics and is the main factor. The cue tip actually represents a tiny "torque arm" that gets applied to the cue ball all in the instant the impact takes place. A softer tip usually results in more microseconds of "tip time" for what to us seems to be an instantaneous event, so any off dead center cueing applies that tiny torque arm and that "tractoring" effect is how spin gets applied to the cue ball that is other than the normal spin it gains from a straight roll. A hard breaker uses a hard tip and a stiff cue to apply as much on axis force to the cue ball as possible. Any follow or draw or English added to that stroke and contact will have a very small amount of time to 'function', yet it still does. Less than a firm, soft tipped cue break, which is also a fast event. The soft tip break can actually apply more spin and be further off center before the point of miscue occurs. The key to a good stroke is co-linearity with your intended 'line-of-fire'. That is why the elbow drop and wrist curl stuff is bad. With a good stroke, I have seen even a miscue still roll right and go. The way the ball comes off the cue tip at the slowest roll speeds and the fastest hard stroke speeds is still usually faster than the stroke itself. And if you accelerate your cue after contact and hit it again, you foul.
Isn't your first slow motion of your long backswing stroke demonstrating a 'rushed transition'. If you look at the photo in your wall the jerk is moving your head out of position as you hit
Good observation. I don't think my small head lift there is due to jerking the transition. That's just a bad habit I have on fast-speed shots. It also more difficult to keep the head as still with fast-speed shots, even with a smooth transition and acceleration.
Demetrius has a vision center under his left eye and he is right handed. Wonder if he has any physical repercussions from his form?
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this (other than learning to play opposite-handed, which isn't easy for most people). I am not aware of any physical issues for Demetrius yet, but some day he might need the advice here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/exercise/
@@DrDaveBilliards Great answer Dr. Dave. I hope to meet you in person some day at an event!
I stay very busy with lessons, courses, and video production, so I don't get out much. The only events I plan to attend this coming year are the BCA Trade Show and VNEA Championship tournaments in Vegas.
@@DrDaveBilliards might see ya there
Is your cue a Mezz? If it is, which one is it?
12.4 Predator Revo.
@@DrDaveBilliards Id love to see you play against Sharivari
I'd like that too. I'd also like to collaborate with him on some instructional videos some day. Too bad he's in Europe and I'm in the US.
@@DrDaveBilliards It is a real shame but it would be nice to see
15 seconds late to class, but grateful to be here. Thanks Dave.
I hope you brought your complete homework assignment with you. :)
@@DrDaveBilliards Imagine playing pool as part of my homework. What a time.
Tyler Styler has the best stroke, in my view!
There are many pro examples of great strokes. See the end of my "10 Secrets of a GOOD STROKE in Pool" video for other examples:
th-cam.com/video/JeZPLFW3MBg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, DrDave. For this shot: th-cam.com/video/Jt88yNohWm8/w-d-xo.html I realize I ran afoul of a couple of fundamentals (shoulder involved when it should only be the arm and transition too fast) . So perhaps, I can get even more zing! So hard to do though because your body is telling you to use all your muscles whereas the opposite is true - smooth acceleration not abbreviated acceleration! Also, maybe I missed it in the video, but why is a relaxed grip better than a tight grip? How does a tight grip impede progress?
Nice job. For lots of good draw and power draw advice, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/power/
Concerning grip, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/technique/
Tightening or tensing the grip or arm usually constrains and limits acceleration.
Why is deceleration bad? Does it cause cue deviation from the shot aim line resulting in a missed shot? It’s not obvious to me why cue deceleration would be bad.
It can result in poor speed control. It also dramatically kills action on draw shots.
I can understand how deceleration would have a negative effect on draw shots, but don't understand how it results in poorer speed control than acceleration. Why would acceleration be better for speed control than deceleration? Is there some biomechanical effect that favors accelerating the cue compared to decelerating it?@@DrDaveBilliards
@@GreenThumb121 You don’t want acceleration at tip contact, but you do want a smoothly accelerating stroke with no deceleration. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/good-timing/
I mentioned part of the answer my recent “STROKE TIMING … A Complete MythBusting Study of Stroke Acceleration Effects” video:
th-cam.com/video/0m6g7lBh17c/w-d-xo.html
Slight changes in acceleration timing won’t affect the speed very much (with no deceleration).
Wow! Very impressive work to understand tip contact time. However, this careful and elegant work doesn't address or show that cue deceleration at contact affects speed control. From time to time, I hear knowledgeable commentators such as Mark Wilson and Jeremy Jones speak about a missed shot or missed position play as being caused by cue deceleration, and I've been wondering why they say that. But maybe there is a biomechanical effect that they do know about, but aren't explaining. I thought you might know if deceleration causes deviation of the cue from the aim line.@@DrDaveBilliards
Lol. At 8:48 you show us a cheater's rack!
Good eye. You are correct. That actually wasn't done on purpose. The guy that was racking for me (Randy) just wasn't being very careful with template orientation. I probably hit about 100 breaks that day!
I notice Demetrius cue doesn't touch his chin's center. Does that matter?
Everybody has a unique "vision center" position. His is off-center quite a bit, but that is not uncommon. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Timing is hard to describe when you already have a great stroke. I think your speed chart is a hair off however. As in golf, the snap should be ahead of the ball, but your chart shows no snap at all. In fact it shows deceleration. As for eye timing - in pool you try to make every shot as easy as possible by getting good shape. With this you can basically ignore the cue ball. The more difficult the shot, the more you must concentrate on the cue ball, I find.
Good pool players do not have a "snap" before CB contact. The speed maxes out at contact. I know that it might feel like there is a snap or that you are still accelerating at impact, but careful measurements and theory suggest otherwise. For more info, see the videos, links, and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
@@DrDaveBilliards I've heard some do generate some minor additional power on breaks from tightening their grip during contact, and I haven't looked yet but I expect some pros do use a wrist snap. The problem is with extra techniques like that and shoulder drops and even shoulder rotation it is MUCH harder to maintain the needed control, so it requires a lot more practice, I've found. I should take some slow motion looks at Busty's breaks, if you want to look at speed generation there is a good place to look.
Many times I have seen that the pros that are breaking softer are breaking better on some tables, including Shane. In some tournaments you see him really slow down, within reason, because of the 3 point break rule, which is outright stupid at times. Hit the rack hard, sink two balls, and leave the rock a 1/4 turn short of the kitchen and it's an illegal break. I think there are better ways to implement the no soft break rule.
@@MrJdsenior Good points.
Yes, on some shots (e.g., power break and power draw), some players do tighten their grip and flick their wrist a little just before CB contact to gain a little extra power. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/wrist/
This is all great fundamental stuff and should be required viewing for newbs looking to become a more serious player. But then you watch some of the pros and all this gets blown out of the water. Message being don't necessarily copy some of the pros. Take Alan Hopkins for example. Poke stroke but worked well for him. There are other glaring examples. If you want to emulate a pro, Pan Xaioting would be a good choice.
I discuss this and show good pro examples of both "unorthodox strokes" and "models of best practices" in my "10 Secrets of a GOOD STROKE in Pool" video:
th-cam.com/video/JeZPLFW3MBg/w-d-xo.html
Check it out.
@@DrDaveBilliards Ha. I see you mention Alan Hopkins too. I mention Pan Xaioting as someone to emulate fundamentals because hers are pretty much flawless. Then there's the added bonus of watching her but this is a family billiards channel so we won't go there.
@@beercanbrian1880 I'm just another ugly dude, but I don't break mirrors at least... so I would not be able to help you there, but I would say I am unorthodox... Click my name Oh... go ahead... go there.
I always thought of "timing" in pool as being the cue ball roll timing on my bank shots to keep a double kiss from occurring. My strokes range from chin right down on the stick standard fare all the way to elevated cue jab shots, and a good many in between, so for me the 'timing' there is an individual, per shot situation. Because as you know, the 'standard fare' is my least used method.
Dang, back in the day they used to just call it “follow through”
A good follow through can be an indicator of a good stroke, but not always.
Boss
Over head view of stroke and cue speed would be better...
Why do you think that would be better than a side view?
If you can not stroke as straight as a bullet flies, you better practice.😄
Hes left eye dom
pls reply
I prefer to belch right as I am going to shoot and always say as it comes out... "Bah! Humbug!" Besides the beer allowing me to shoot better, it allows me to annunciate my "chi" as I stroke as well. Even an occasional endorphin rush. :-)
I also like to say "Jib Jab" as I stroke. Eh... just ribbin' you guys. You know me... Mr. Unorthodox.
I suck. Back to the table…
The first step to change is recognizing there is a problem. :)
Slow Smooth Fast.
I am sure many a hustler is taking notes so they can use bad strokes on purpose...
SVB absolutely did NOT do ANY forward shift... not even a quarter inch.