what is always interesting is the underlining “mockery” in regards to the movie…. and of course the alleged background of catholic by the film makers as “we have to be able to disagree and agree and discuss all this.”. except God will not be mocked or ridiculed and God the Trinity is not of this world of theatric fantasy.
There is no mockery of God in this film. You are projecting. God is the only part of this entire film that is not being questioned or scrutinized. The whole movie focuses on the “men” and their human faults.
I don't see how this film said anything against the "teachings of Jesus Christ", as you put it. Jesus never said anything about priests' genders-he never really said anything about the priesthood at all. The overwhelming thrust of his message was kindness, humility before God (doubt), and, yes, overturning stuffy dogmas.
Just saw this. It's very well-acted and well-produced. It's a serious movie, and contains no laughs - but it is an interesting story. The way to think about _Conclave_ is to imagine opening up a machine to see how it works. And what we find out is that humans are flawed beings. No big spoiler there. The super-weirdo ending can only be explained by assuming the filmmakers want people to talk about this movie when they exit the theater. And they certainly will. Ralph Fiennes does a wonderful job - but even he seems to totally disbelieve the ending of the film - at least initially - and then later there's the closing scene where he appears to be a-okay with the choice for the new Pope. Does this movie put down the Catholic church? Probably - but not in the way you think it might. I view this as a watch-once movie - and I just can't imagine people with home theaters selecting this one for a movie night with their friends. That won't happen with this one. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Agreed. You said it all, a story. Not a documentary, a story that someone thought up. The ending was unrealistic and i do not believe it would happen like that in reality.
First of all I doubt if any of these actors are practicing Catholics. And secondly the fact that the people making these kinds of movies are more for some kind of an agenda. I believe that people have become wiser in noticing the junk that is being produced in Hollywood.
Exactly. The pearl clutching is getting out of hand. There's been plenty of actual real life scandal in the Catholic Church. A movie is hardly going to rival any of that. Go buy some popcorn and enjoy the movie for what it is...a work of fiction.
Matthew 16:16-19: “Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.”
Politics doesn’t stop at the church entrance. It just changes the flavor of the politics. Organized religion can be a curse. Just think what the did to Galileo because the dared to state the obvious truth about astronomy. It took 200 years to set the record straight in the church. I’m probably gonna see it, but I’m ready to keep my Christianity and entertainment values separate. I recall the church recommending not to see the Exorcist back when it first came out. I saw it and never forgot it. It made me a better person ultimately because it scared me straight.
I saw it and the film is "good" liberal cardinals versus "bad" conservative (misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic) cardinals electing a new Pope. This movie is to Catholicism what Star Wars is to astronomy.
The irony of preaching doubt as "openness" and yet ending the film with a dogmatic affirmation of contemporary orthodoxy that the church is wrong about the lgbtqi+ alphabet soup of "sexual identities"! Pathetic. And, oh, so boooorrring.
Wow. The film doesn't end on sexuality. The twist at the end has zero to do with sexuality. They mentioned LGBTQ once and that was one of the Cardinals expressing his personal views. If you think that ending twist is about sexuality more and you need to get more education.
@@andrewjames954 It ended with them electing an intersex man/woman as pope. I said it's about sexual identity. I said nothing about sexuality. Before you start insulting people, read more carefully.
@ And you can feel insulted all you want, you are still uneducated on the subject. Before you argue, maybe learn what the definition of sexual identity is. I’m not even going to play games. Here it is: “Sexual identity is a person's self-perception of their sexual and romantic attraction to others.“ What you are TRYING and FAILING to discuss is a person’s biological sex. In this case, it’s an intersex person. There is nothing sinful, wrong or otherwise with being intersex. It’s a natural occurrence. What the film is pointing out with this specific inclusion is MAN’S prejudice being passed off as godly.
@@andrewjames954 If it's not about sexual identity why is it lumped in with the lgbtqi+ ? If it's not a sexual identity why is it called interSEX? It's about biology and biology is about sex: male and female are biological sexual identities. And who said anything about intersex being "sinful"? It's not "sinful", it's abnormal and undesirable because it is sterile and useless from an evolutionary point of view. Or would you like to be intersex? Would you want your child to be intersex? What this film is doing is being as sanctimonious and preachy as any other ideological fundamentalist, religious or otherwise. And before you argue, maybe learn that ad hominem attacks is no argument. It's childish.
You guys forget that the ONLY reason the Cardinals choose who they do to be the new pontif is because of the inspired message he delivers to them about love, humanity and the essential future role the Church on earth. THEY WILL NEVER KNOW about his biological secret. There is nothing to get all frazzled about here. It’s a fiction after all ( and I thought a great film as well)
Raymond - not a good interview with Hollywood stars. You underestimate their intelligence and commitment. I know you're very sincere as a Catholic but on this occasion you were too emotional and actually looked ridiculous. Those actors and director don't need to defend their position. It's just a movie, after all.
This was a TERRIFIC film. Well acted, well written, very nice cinematography. I found the ending thrilling! This film is certainly an Oscar candidate. See it and enjoy!
Warm greetings from Australia 🦘 You sound exasperated Raymond. I will be seeing the movie. Of that, I am certain and have no doubt. It doesn't affect my Catholic faith. The Catholic faith and Church have survived for over 2000 years and will continue to survive, because of tradition, scripture and it's teachings (Magisterium). Hollywood and others might try to undermine that certainty of truth and continuity but will NEVER succeed. God will ALWAYS have the last WORD! PS. Surprise, surprise. People actually like certainty.
@@jocar9828 read the book. It raises very good questions about medical conditions that don't fit into his narrow view. Read the book and learn something. See the movie too It's Oscar good, except for constuming. That could have been better.
No Wrong, No evil, No certainity, Not worth my money, will give the money to the Church.
what is always interesting is the underlining “mockery” in regards to the movie…. and of course the alleged background of catholic by the film makers as “we have to be able to disagree and agree and discuss all this.”. except God will not be mocked or ridiculed and God the Trinity is not of this world of theatric fantasy.
There is no mockery of God in this film. You are projecting. God is the only part of this entire film that is not being questioned or scrutinized. The whole movie focuses on the “men” and their human faults.
I don't see how this film said anything against the "teachings of Jesus Christ", as you put it. Jesus never said anything about priests' genders-he never really said anything about the priesthood at all. The overwhelming thrust of his message was kindness, humility before God (doubt), and, yes, overturning stuffy dogmas.
Just saw this. It's very well-acted and well-produced. It's a serious movie, and contains no laughs - but it is an interesting story. The way to think about _Conclave_ is to imagine opening up a machine to see how it works. And what we find out is that humans are flawed beings. No big spoiler there. The super-weirdo ending can only be explained by assuming the filmmakers want people to talk about this movie when they exit the theater. And they certainly will. Ralph Fiennes does a wonderful job - but even he seems to totally disbelieve the ending of the film - at least initially - and then later there's the closing scene where he appears to be a-okay with the choice for the new Pope. Does this movie put down the Catholic church? Probably - but not in the way you think it might. I view this as a watch-once movie - and I just can't imagine people with home theaters selecting this one for a movie night with their friends. That won't happen with this one. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Agreed. You said it all, a story. Not a documentary, a story that someone thought up. The ending was unrealistic and i do not believe it would happen like that in reality.
First of all I doubt if any of these actors are practicing Catholics. And secondly the fact that the people making these kinds of movies are more for some kind of an agenda. I believe that people have become wiser in noticing the junk that is being produced in Hollywood.
Sounds like just another anti Catholic movie, I would not waste one penny on it.
Catholic Church has been here for over two thousand years, nobody will talk about this movie next month 😅
Exactly. The pearl clutching is getting out of hand. There's been plenty of actual real life scandal in the Catholic Church. A movie is hardly going to rival any of that. Go buy some popcorn and enjoy the movie for what it is...a work of fiction.
Matthew 16:16-19: “Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.”
Politics doesn’t stop at the church entrance. It just changes the flavor of the politics. Organized religion can be a curse. Just think what the did to Galileo because the dared to state the obvious truth about astronomy. It took 200 years to set the record straight in the church. I’m probably gonna see it, but I’m ready to keep my Christianity and entertainment values separate. I recall the church recommending not to see the Exorcist back when it first came out. I saw it and never forgot it. It made me a better person ultimately because it scared me straight.
I saw it and the film is "good" liberal cardinals versus "bad" conservative (misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic) cardinals electing a new Pope. This movie is to Catholicism what Star Wars is to astronomy.
Thank you Raymond, I was going to go see it but not any more. A trans Pope? Really?
Intersex, NOT trans
This is why the Pope needs to revive the Inquisition
The irony of preaching doubt as "openness" and yet ending the film with a dogmatic affirmation of contemporary orthodoxy that the church is wrong about the lgbtqi+ alphabet soup of "sexual identities"! Pathetic. And, oh, so boooorrring.
Wow. The film doesn't end on sexuality. The twist at the end has zero to do with sexuality. They mentioned LGBTQ once and that was one of the Cardinals expressing his personal views. If you think that ending twist is about sexuality more and you need to get more education.
@@andrewjames954 It ended with them electing an intersex man/woman as pope. I said it's about sexual identity. I said nothing about sexuality. Before you start insulting people, read more carefully.
@ And you can feel insulted all you want, you are still uneducated on the subject. Before you argue, maybe learn what the definition of sexual identity is. I’m not even going to play games. Here it is: “Sexual identity is a person's self-perception of their sexual and romantic attraction to others.“ What you are TRYING and FAILING to discuss is a person’s biological sex. In this case, it’s an intersex person. There is nothing sinful, wrong or otherwise with being intersex. It’s a natural occurrence. What the film is pointing out with this specific inclusion is MAN’S prejudice being passed off as godly.
@@andrewjames954 If it's not about sexual identity why is it lumped in with the lgbtqi+ ? If it's not a sexual identity why is it called interSEX? It's about biology and biology is about sex: male and female are biological sexual identities. And who said anything about intersex being "sinful"? It's not "sinful", it's abnormal and undesirable because it is sterile and useless from an evolutionary point of view. Or would you like to be intersex? Would you want your child to be intersex? What this film is doing is being as sanctimonious and preachy as any other ideological fundamentalist, religious or otherwise. And before you argue, maybe learn that ad hominem attacks is no argument. It's childish.
It starts off as a great movie. But it ends with a slap in the face to the catholic religion.
You guys forget that the ONLY reason the Cardinals choose who they do to be the new pontif is because of the inspired message he delivers to them about love, humanity and the essential future role the Church on earth. THEY WILL NEVER KNOW about his biological secret. There is nothing to get all frazzled about here. It’s a fiction after all ( and I thought a great film as well)
Don't you get it? The point the filmmaker is making is that such a speech could *obviously* "never" be given by an actual, biological male. 🙄
Wait, what? Wasn’t Jesus male and basically said the same thing?
9:41 "kindness" isn't a reason to elect a Pope
Great actors, imagery, then movie turned, sour, than strange. Not a positive about Christianity or the Catholic Church.
Medved voted for Biden... Pathetic.
Thats the sneaker guy
Does MM still have TDS?
Reformed is the only way to go. Amen
Raymond - not a good interview with Hollywood stars. You underestimate their intelligence and commitment. I know you're very sincere as a Catholic but on this occasion you were too emotional and actually looked ridiculous. Those actors and director don't need to defend their position. It's just a movie, after all.
This was a TERRIFIC film. Well acted, well written, very nice cinematography. I found the ending thrilling! This film is certainly an Oscar candidate. See it and enjoy!
TDS medved back at it lol.
Warm greetings from Australia 🦘 You sound exasperated Raymond. I will be seeing the movie. Of that, I am certain and have no doubt. It doesn't affect my Catholic faith. The Catholic faith and Church have survived for over 2000 years and will continue to survive, because of tradition, scripture and it's teachings (Magisterium). Hollywood and others might try to undermine that certainty of truth and continuity but will NEVER succeed. God will ALWAYS have the last WORD! PS. Surprise, surprise. People actually like certainty.
Except there are a dozen much better movies out to watch. Why waste your money?
@diamondlou1 I have money to waste! I will be seeing the movie.
I read the novel. It raises questions that I am very familiar with as a doctor. Raymond Arroyo is ignorant. Very.
Some specifics please. Ad hominem comment on Raymond is hardly worthy of serious discussion.
@@jocar9828 read the book. It raises very good questions about medical conditions that don't fit into his narrow view. Read the book and learn something. See the movie too It's Oscar good, except for constuming. That could have been better.