Do guitarists need a Reamp box or not? - Radial ProRMP VS Just a cable
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
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We keep seeing newer guitar recording enthusiasts saying "what's the point of a reamp box? I'll just use a cable from my interface".
This is what happens. THIS IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE
We're using a Peavey 6505+ With a Zilla Fatboy 2x12, and a Radial ProRMP Reamp box - www.radialeng.c...
5:06 - Clean with Reamp box
5:23 - Clean NO Reamp box
5:41 - Distorted with Reamp box
5:57 - Distorted NO Reamp box
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A line level signal is a much stronger signal than an instrument level signal, which is in turn stronger than a mic-level signal. If you send a line level signal to your pre-amp that expects an instrument or mic level signal you do not only get a lot of noise, but you can damage your equipment. The reamp box turns the signal from line level to instrument level, so it's not only for noise reduction. So it's almost like a DI-box with the difference that DI converts Instrument level to Mic level
There is a test here on YT where a guy uses a Boss GE7 to reamp from one of the two headphone outputs from his Focusrite interface. The theory is that Boss pedal buffers support line level input, specially the equalizer. However, on the contrary of balanced line outputs, you will need to adjust interface out/pedal in volumes to get good results. Not the best solution, but sometimes more practical than unplugging your monitors. My Apogee interface has two stereo headphone outputs, but only two mono balanced line outs.
I just tried reamping from my line output of the UAD Apollo Twin, and no hiss whatsoever. Just adjusted the output level to -20db and works like a charm
TRS to TS ?
I did the same with no reamp box yeah. Line out 3 from Apollo, using a normal unbalanced guitar cable straight into my amp actually worked. Sounded great, as if I was playing it, no hiss whatsoever
Fine for a test but add 8+ rhythm tracks 4+ lead and 2 or more bass and that little bit you don’t hear but is there will magnify and make all that work a messy mix and a mastering nightmare
Thank Izotope for the RX software what you shouldn’t need it with a properly tracked matched signal
it’s like ignoring all the phase issues because it doesn’t sound bad to you in a limited setting but it will cost tons of time in post and probably render the take unusable
Since doing this I've realised that while it MIGHT work, anecdotal evidence can be a bad thing. May still damage your equipment sending a line level signal to something expecting instrument level. So using my reamp box in future (I got away with no damage... but might not be so lucky in future!)
your not factoring in the Bit depth you are losing by doing that, you essentially are losing 1 Bit per 6 DB reduction. get a re-amp box like a pro
Finally a video that quickly explains this topic with examples!!!
Spot on , I tried reamping via the interface out but that hiss is just way way to much.
Balance the gain from the audio interface out and you wont have noise. Also it depends which amp you are using and whether the impedance is matched.
Some amp input channels accept line level better than others. There are plenty of examples of re amping without boxes and it works just fine. They are not essential and there are lots of workarounds. If you really must have one make your own, it's just a transformer and a couple of connectors. You can also add a volume pot if you need one there are lots of diagrams on line. IMO they are a rip off.
Balance the gain? Amps have unbalanced inputs. And I’ve never seen a good guitar amp with line level input- and certainly not with galvanic isolation on its inputs. Sorry but no dice!
The problem with making your own is that in order to get the same quality transformers used by a company like radial, who orders them wholesale, you would end up spending more than just buying one. That, or you would end up with cheaper components and an inferior product in the end.
It's not a question of gain, as you say it's impedance matching and the impedance will never match because the audio coming from the output of your audio interface is ALWAYS going to be Line Level (lo-z) and the guitar amp is always going to want a (hi-z) source. You can't balance impedance without a reamp box.
If you think they are a ripoff try this. Run your line level signal into your amp where you are satisfied with it (where you think you have no noise) where you think you have the gain/trim set right. Then without changing the signal, run it through guitar pedals. Just the pedals, not to an amp. Then turn one of those pedals on and make sure you are ready to crank down the masters really fast. Better yet, if the pedals aren't true bypass go ahead and just leave them off and listen to all of that wonderful noise you are adding to your signal.
In the end there are no reasons to take shortcuts unless you are just a fan of shooting yourself in the foot before you begin. If every audio engineer out there is telling you need a reamp box to properly (properly being the key word here) reamp a guitar, than there is probably a reason they are all in agreement. In the end, if you are introducing noise in the signal, even if you can't hear it immediately, it's going to come back and bite you in the ass eventually, like when you run the track through a professional outboard compressor, you will see how much you just raised the noise floor and how many of the frequencies you just recorded you basically just made unusable.
hmm "isolation" is not the reason we use reamp boxes. Its because balanced outputs are low impedance and high level, the reamp box also has a ground function in addition to increasing the impedance.
It’s A reason you use a Reamp box. Not the only one.
Thanks for this video (also found your Reaper tutorial great). Is there a place for a Lehle 1@3 instead of reaping? I don't really want 3 amps but I do like having 3 DAW tracks when recording guitar. i.e. out of the 1@3 I send a signal to the amp then stick a mic on it. second signal is going into my pedalboard, and the 3rd signal is going straight into another DI. So that's 2 DI signals and a Mic for guitar. Is this a better idea than reamping? It's handy having a clean track for guitar (just in case I'd like to edit in post). I have the pedalboard track to blend with the lovely tone from the amp.
Good for taming very hot effects loops too.
Or a Di box with a 30db attenuation switch?
You are awesome. I wish if you can make a video about how to reamp an amp by using AXE I/O ONE and reaper :) !
What about if you use a stompbox noise suppressor (or noise gate, whatever it’s called), wouldn’t that minimize the noise to a descent level? Or even completely eliminate it? I don’t have one, that’s why I’m asking. I recently learned about this and am doing research.
Pablo Arista see you don’t have a reply yet so I’m hoping this helps: so it will help when there’s no signal being played through the noise suppressor but the issue comes in where when you’re sending a guitar di through the noise suppressor, the suppression stops to allow the guitar signal through and, without a reamp box, you may (I did when testing) hear the noise in addition to the guitar signal coming through.
output sounded kinda digital, not a guitar player myself, but around a lot of people who play.
“Digital” doesn’t mean anything though
Great video. I'm looking into choices for reamping, and would like clarification about this thought. Shouldn't you be able to use a D.I. going in to record a clean track - and then use that SAME D.I. to send the recorded track playback out to the amp? If your current D.I. is transformer isolated, then getting another box that does the same thing (in reverse direction) - only with text or a lable on it saying "Reamper" (or something similar) is just like "beating a dead horse". If it isn't redundancy, could you explain how or why?
No it’s not redundant, because of the issue of impedance. Doing this in reverse “works” with a completely passive DI, but the isolation can be flawed and the overall tone negatively affected by the mismatch. A guitar amp is expecting to see a very specific signal type, otherwise things don’t go so well.
Also a good passive guitar should be fed into an active DI box to avoid pickup loading and tone loss on the way in
A guitar pre-amp expects an instrument level signal, which is a stronger signal than mic-level but weaker than line level. If you send a line level signal into your guitar pre-amp you will not only get noise but you can damage it. A DI-box converts from Instrument to Mic level, while a reamp box converts from Line to Instrument level.
So you can use a DI-box to plug you guitar directly to the mic-inputs on your audio interface to record the guitar. But when want to send the DI/clean track back from your audio interface you will get a line level signal which you need to turn into an instrument level signal before you send it to your guitar amp.
Unless you have an audio interface that can send you recorded track at instrument level signal you need a reamp box or you will damage your guitar preamp.
Hi Adam! Great video, just wondering... If I am sending an aux from my mixer to a bunch of guitar pedals then back into a spare channel on the desk, will a reamp make any difference to the audio quality? At the moment I'm having to adjust the aux send level to something sensible so as not to clip the pedals, but just wondering if there are any other advantages? Cheers!
Yeah man, it also means you can send a balanced signal out towards the pedals (for a lower noise floor) then it transformer isolates the pedals so there’s even less noise. The more manageable output level is just a welcome bonus. Some pedals are more picky than others though!
@@adamsteelproducer great, thank you!
Great explanation of a key technology! Thanks!
+Tim Satterwhite thankyou!
Hey quick question, if I want to reamp do I first have to record through a DI, then sent it through a reamp box?
Hi Andre - ideally you should be recording through a DI, you can use the "link" port on a DI to record through the amp at the same time if you need to check the tone as you play, but you can also reamp at the same time - I do this in some of my videos using clever wiring and DAW monitoring!
This is day & night results ! Thanks you for this vidéo.
Have got a question for you : If we need a reamp box before a real hardware amp and cab section, why don't we use this before a VST amp/cab plugins ? What does it sounds like ? Do you try that ? I'm curious about your thoughts
Hi Nicolas, thanks for the feedback. Put simply, it's impossible to use a Reamp box before a VST amp - it's a device to turn the electrical signal back into a "guitar" signal, but the VST already sees a perfect capture of the DI signal, and is programmed by the developers to work with that sound. There's no way to put a Reamp box inbetween without really damaging the sound by going back through your interface another time. Think of a Reamp box as the opposite of a DI :)
I love you man
Marketing. You don't need a "ReAmp Box" you can use a DI box as you did in recording. It works.
Depends on the di box, and I find that the impedance and level mismatch sound awful. It “works” but if you’ve got a discerning ear then it’s far from marketing.
@@adamsteelproducer try to reamp with a Radial JDI. You will be shocked. If someone got a good DI is it OK also for reamp
Done it, sounded dull and had a terrible signal level- which needed to be boosted which brought up the noise floor considerably. I wasn’t shocked.
@@adamsteelproducer I got a Jdi, I was going to buy the re-amp. I found this video th-cam.com/video/b1O_5gaX4-s/w-d-xo.html
So, I tried with my JDI, for me it sounds good, in the mix no one could tell that riff is reamped.
Maybe Reamp box is better, if you reamp entire tracks or you use pedals as inserts.
Great video, as always. How du you level match the output of the interface to the correct input for the amp(which should be the same output as the guitar used for the recording..)?
+Dan Eidorff level matching, I play a consistent chord and try and hit around -10dB on the input meter in Bias or Auria depending on what I'm doing, that's roughly enough headroom for big notes but enough signal to noise ratio. If I was using a lower output guitar I might match the levels at -18 but -10 simulates the pickups being quite hot
Hi guys! I have a Steinberg UR44 audio interface. It has two main outputs: left and right. Each output is unbalanced as far as I know. How can I connect the left main output of Steinberg UR44 to the balanced input of Radial Pro RPM?
They’re all balanced, I just googled it
I don't hear any difference that makes me want to spend money on changing it, don't hear the "Lack of definition" and don't hear the "Noise" I hear that the re-amp version is high-pass filtered and the raw one isn't, so cut those lows and save your money.
If you don’t hear that noise then maybe listen again a few times. It’s clear as day. If not, then maybe spend some more time listening to well produced music and look for those difference. It’s not even subtle.
It could be that your hearing is damaged. Get your ears checked. I mean that seriously, not trying to put you down. The hiss is clearly obvious and my hearing isn't what it used to be either. [I'm 49]
Any thoughts on using a TRS Y-cable out of the interface, into a Boss pedal (with power supplied but the pedal effect not turned on)? The split cable means you end up with TS going into a Boss pedal, and Boss pedals are buffered, so its output is ready to go into a guitar amp.
Try it and tell me how you go, impedance and level issues are still there
@@adamsteelproducer used a totally dry Jaguar, recorded direct and re-amped through the powered-but-not-activated Boss pedal, into an early 60s Showman. I put an ABY switch before the amp, so I can switch between the same Jaguar being played live and the recorded signal. Im tempted to say the two signals sound identical.
Should i use 1/4 TRS to Male XLR from interface out or 1/4 TS to Male XLR ?
TRS if you can, this keeps the cable noise at an absolute minimum up to the reamp box, especially needed in higher gain amp setups
@@adamsteelproducer thank you so very much 🙏🙏🙏
Great video!!
very helpful, thanks!
Nice video!
Nice studio also.
Greetings from Brazil!
+Ricardo SP thanks Ricardo, greetings from England!
@@adamsteelproducer , I've been using a reamp box, but not from Radial. I record the signal (Instrument Input at the interface) from my guitar, with a Seymour Duncan Blackout pickup (very very loud output level). Then I take the Line Signal from Reaper and my Tascam 16x08 interface, connect to the reamp box and to my gear (a Alien, brazilian hand made high gain amp, and a 4x12 cab).
The fact is: if I do not atenuate the Line Output Level by -24dB in Reaper, the signal will be distorted. Even with the Volume and Output amp levels in zero, I can hear the signal coming from the Tascam if I do not proceed to the atenuation.
I wonder if it is a problem with this (poor?) reamp box, or if it's normal that kind of thing in a process like that.
Sounds to me like a low quality signal at a few places- the Tascam will be bleeding signal across its channels, and it sounds like the Reamp box is too loud as well- you might be able to use a pad somewhere?
You could discuss and compare active vs passive reamp boxes.
Active DI for passive pups, passive DI for active pups. that seems to be the consensus.
@@Aeronaut1975 Exactly.
Hello, nice channel, dude! I have same Reamp-box; Signal level from the box is lower than from guitar and Its not good for amp input. Have you same bug?
Thanks man. Yeah I find the output is a little lower from the ProRMP, it's not an issue though, I just turn up the gain on the amp a little to match. That's what the gain knob is for! There are hotter output Reamp boxes out there- also is the signal from your DAW being fed out of professional level +4dBu outputs? Most line level outputs from interfaces aren't actually as loud as they should be.....
Thats what makes something like the Torpedo Reload great, super expensive so only worth it if you really need all the features but it has level matching so your reamp signal is the same as your guitar. It is also an attenuator and a load box
I love my little labs 3d phantom :)
They are indeed great pieces of gear. I'm considering upgrading later in the year since I use my reamp box a lot more than I used to. I did prefer the sound of the Palmer Daccappo though, had a little more "meat" to it, although the Phantom was almost forensic in detail...
can we just high cut that background noise in the mix??
No, because the noise is through all the frequencies. There’s no way to just EQ it out.
@@adamsteelproducer how about noise reduction pedal? does it affect the level of the input?
Noise reduction pedals don’t help as they only cut noise inbetween notes, not whilst playing. Better to not have the noise to begin with
can i use daws effect by using prormp when im playing live.
Sure- if you want to have a virtual effect then run into an amp that’s completely possible- just be aware of latency!
@@adamsteelproducer in that case first record it I guess?
No if your latency is good enough, you can run into a DI box, into your interface and use live monitoring through fx. I’ve done it several times
@@adamsteelproducer ok that's good, Thank you
what if your interface doesn't have an XLR output?
Get a TRS to XLR cable. This is pretty standard, almost no interfaces have XLR outputs
forgot to mention my interface only has L/R monitor outputs. Is this good enough or should I invest in a better interface?
Define “better”- do you need more outputs or inputs? Don’t throw money at more channels unless you need them, and listen to what you’re recording in detail. If it sounds good quality then I’m sure it’s good.
first off thank you for your help. I guess I should also say that what I want to do is not actually reamping, but redirecting. Basically recording through my DI a performance and then redirecting the track through my pedal board I've tried to do this without a reamp pedal using the L/R monitor outputs but I think doing that makes the signal only mono and only on one side of L/R
you can barely hear the noise on the gain channel with all that unless distortion using the cable, so...
I disagree
Could you use a passive di in reverse?
Radial Engineering actually suggests doing just that in their manual for their passive DI box. So then the question is, why do they also sell a reamp box?
There's a great Creative Sound Lab video about that.
th-cam.com/video/b1O_5gaX4-s/w-d-xo.html
I believe using a DI box in reverse is only attenuating the signal, not helping with impedance mismatch and isolation. WTF do I know though?
Its just about making the best possible recordings possible. I don’t own a guitar, but have about 20 pedals. I’m a synth/keyboard player, and these instruments are loud AF. All pedals are different, you really have to check the manual as well as ask the manufacturer about the input signal allowable. Just because Strymon says “line-level”, means nothing. They can call it “line level” for accepting anywhere between -8dBu and +20dBu which is a huge range. IME it is pedal dependent. They are all different, but especially with gain dependent pedals like overdrive or distortion, reamping gives so much more headroom, and allows the pedal to function optimally.
Sometimes I have a $5000 signal chain between synth and two or three pedals. Putting $100 reamp in there isn’t that big of a deal, I know I’m not going to have to worry about clipping or break up. I don’t have a DI box, so I usually just bring up the gain a touch on my AI pre-amp, but mostly just turn up the gain after recording ITB. Its typical for my signal to be about -20dBFS after reamping and running through a couple of pedals. Unless you have some shit hot pre-amps, I’d rather just use a gain plugin than wreck my carefully crafted recording with shitty AI preamps.
theaxedude1 fuck that fat ass and his reamping shit
@@autobotsNdecepticons Because the Reamp box has Mismatched Transformers on purpose to do galvanic isolation. A normal DI passive box van be used but those are really meant fo Mic levels output to insert into a Mixer. Hope you understand the Transformers in a Reamp Box are not the same as a DI box. Most outputs are 1/4 so that is line level not Mic level so hooking them up in reverse on a DI Box is not recommended.
Quite popular in the last few years eh? Hahaha
summary: no reamp box == too much pink noise
That sums it up pretty well. But people don’t believe you, so I had to do a proof experiment
1:42 that's your CLEAN TONE?!
It’s a 6505, and I did say “slightly crunchy”
Man you could have chose any other riff to demo
......yes? And?