Ngamez: Marines and siege tanks are not a counter to broodlords Alphastar: Mixes marines and siege tanks into one blob. Tanks block the broodlings while marines snipe the broodlords. Ngamez: Oh... ok...
I can't believe it man. Tanks and reinforcing marines magically formed into a tight ball denying surface area for broodlings. Tanks one shotting broodlings that land and marines hunting down broodlords in the sky. These are the kind of miracles I wanted to see from Alphastar games. No human would've been macroing mass tanks and marines when broods were in the sky
Intense game! That was the Zerg's game to lose mid game, but the machine macro of AlphaStar is brutal, and the Zerg was just overrun. Also, using the tanks to tank broodlords for the Marines was pretty dope micro.
The tanks "tanked" the broodlings. They kill the broodlings fast and provide cover for the marines because they are so big, essentially blocking pathways for the broodlings. I would have never thought this is a possibility!
@@nara6540 Tanks in real life battle tanks not infantry. Infantry is highly maneuverable and has a numerical advantaged but traditional mechanized tactics fail against zerg but this...this was just brilliant but note the Zerg gifted this victory by not properly remaxing but this was a powerful strategy revealed and I wonder if it will enter the Pro Meta
@@nara6540 I believe cover is a top down tactic. It's designed for less important units to shield more important units. -Destroyers and Subs cover carriers -fighters cover bombers -infantry covers snipers and marines -infantry covers tanks and screen for mines You're right (depending on what war) that infantry and tanks generally cover each other with different abilities But traditionally it's the tank that's the value unit because it is armored. This is how single-role specialized combat has progressed. What's fascinating here is that Alpha Star reversed that stratagem. It nullified the vipers early sacrificing the Vikings and used the tanks superior armor to shield for the superior rate of fire for the marines.
There are some days on my drive to work that I hope I run into some banshees. But I'm glad I haven't so I can come home and watch more AlphaStar videos.
AlphaStar won that main engagement as the human over-extended, then the counter-attack was timed perfectly at the end. The AI's micro and army comp was also proving superb.
That engagement at 23:34.. Guess lack of air attack upgrades made broodlords not capable of taking out the tanks in time. Also a ton of corruptors just went up in, er, bloody mist.
looking things over it seems like the reason is he kept them all in a tight ball preventing a lot of attack surface area. that and tanks in normal mode one shot broodlings so many of the spawns were not getting more then a single attack, would have been a terrible choice if the zerg had banes in the area. it's kinda like if someone powers through your locusts and is able to chase down your swarm hosts.
@@1800JimmyG not only that but keeping the tanks and marines in a tight ball minimized attack surface area and spread the damage to the higher hit point units keeping the marines alive longer to do more damage. There is no better unit in the game for sustained damage per second per unit of space then a stimpak marine but they tend to die quickly. unsieged tanks are way better than most people give then credit for. firing while moving and doing 30 damage a shot isn't bad given how fast the fire rate is.
Alphastar in this iteration had looser limits to its micro. It may well have been target-firing tanks to different specific broodlings. I also like how its protoss builds from around this time completely abuse the stalker blink to a point that lets it move those units against things that no human player would even try.
that and the way alphastar positioned its marines in between wall of seige tank which messes up the broodling AI making it hard to properly surround the marines is too damn beautiful.
No one seem to comment the mineral production of alphastar. That +3000 mineral vs +2000 mineral must have done a BIG difference 10 minutes later. Seems like alphastar ran an extra base for a long time.
Not a sc2 player but I'm pretty sure the game isn't balanced for "infinite" APM and super precise control at the same time so that would probably result in some exploity as fuck play. Atill might be interesting doing something like 2v1.
the other player would be constantly under attack. it would be a reaper then a hellion reaper and couple marines joining it then a medivac and a tank or a banshee. all of these things being perfectly micro'd for maximum effect while not suffering at all in the macro department. it would be impossible like trying to throw a ball harder then a cannon can shoot it.
"APM limits relative to those used in AlphaStar. Reducing APM substantially reduces performance. Unexpectedly, increasing APM also reduces performance, possibly because the agent spends more effort on refining micro-tactics than on learning diverse strategies." That's in the research paper which i found interesting.
21:00 that was absolutely awful trading by the master zerg. He couldn't kited that army easily, but instead a-moved his whole ground army into the choke. And for some reason he just stopped doing run-bys edit: COULDV'E. sry
zerg made mistake attacking too open w broodlords, you want to fight w them over the cliff, so marines cant reach them. Also he didn't pull his antiair to protect broods fast enough, he just went all in w broods alone feeling immortal. Still that was pretty nice job of alphastar to turn that.
AI baited human master into turrets and planetary like a pro :) Zerg should keep broodlords at a distance and spam free units. It was a very bad idea to fly over turrets and marines.
Great game. As always AlphaStar wins to its nearly perfect macro. But not siege those tanks to take no friendly fire was what AlphaStar made so strong in the last fight. Broodlords couldn't deal too much damage because their Broodlings where just shot down.
in the middle off battles, AS's money went down while the player's money went up, the player forgot to remake the unit. In the last engagement, the zerglings were late but not sure if it's gonna make any different, because the command center made a nice choke point, it was like the lings came into a meat grinder and just died.
I cant believe it! Marines beating Brood Lords! MARINES? BROOD LORDS? Like its the perfect unit against the perfect victim and went the other way? But of course those Brood lords was attacking the tanks though instead of the marines when it happened
You said this was an early match, and hes playing MUCH better than current. Was this before they capped his APM? That would explain the incredible micro.
If SC2 Was like Magic the Gathering, Zerg would be a Blue/Red/Green Deck while Terrain would be an Artifact dech and Toss would be Light! How can you handle the hoard/castors/counters all in one... vs a human, the zerg would have won this round as i'm not sure any human would drop as non stop as Alpha did to stall the zerg out. I'm shocked that the Marine Tank won that... lol...
Not for a second did I expect Alphastar to lose. The AI's production was 3x better than that zergs if u watch the production tab when he shows it. The zerg just doesn't know what to make and when to make it. A zerg with low production is a dead zerg.
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Ngamez: Marines and siege tanks are not a counter to broodlords
Alphastar: Mixes marines and siege tanks into one blob. Tanks block the broodlings while marines snipe the broodlords.
Ngamez: Oh... ok...
Felt like the role of the tanks was to kill the broodlings. Very interesting!
I can't believe it man. Tanks and reinforcing marines magically formed into a tight ball denying surface area for broodlings. Tanks one shotting broodlings that land and marines hunting down broodlords in the sky.
These are the kind of miracles I wanted to see from Alphastar games. No human would've been macroing mass tanks and marines when broods were in the sky
Holy moly i was sure alpha star would lose that last defense.... he turned it around
He?
@@_Wai_Wai_ im german and in germany words have gender and computer is a male word. i just went with it .. but yeah its a "it"
Intense game! That was the Zerg's game to lose mid game, but the machine macro of AlphaStar is brutal, and the Zerg was just overrun. Also, using the tanks to tank broodlords for the Marines was pretty dope micro.
It used them to body block also. It was art.
AlphaStar was in control the entire time.
Today late game terran, tomorrow the world.
Skynet in is early steps !!! Mark my words ! O.x´
@@Mondkuh how is it now?
The tanks "tanked" the broodlings. They kill the broodlings fast and provide cover for the marines because they are so big, essentially blocking pathways for the broodlings. I would have never thought this is a possibility!
well...in real life, tank is supposed to cover infantry....not the other way round :3
@@mikumikuiyada Not really
@@nara6540 Tanks in real life battle tanks not infantry. Infantry is highly maneuverable and has a numerical advantaged but traditional mechanized tactics fail against zerg but this...this was just brilliant but note the Zerg gifted this victory by not properly remaxing but this was a powerful strategy revealed and I wonder if it will enter the Pro Meta
saquist What are you talking about exactly? Just saying that Tanks cover Infantry and Infantry covers Tanks, combined arms and all that
@@nara6540 I believe cover is a top down tactic. It's designed for less important units to shield more important units.
-Destroyers and Subs cover carriers
-fighters cover bombers
-infantry covers snipers and marines
-infantry covers tanks and screen for mines
You're right (depending on what war) that infantry and tanks generally cover each other with different abilities But traditionally it's the tank that's the value unit because it is armored. This is how single-role specialized combat has progressed.
What's fascinating here is that Alpha Star reversed that stratagem. It nullified the vipers early sacrificing the Vikings and used the tanks superior armor to shield for the superior rate of fire for the marines.
23:10 "AlphaStar is getting checkmated at every single position". 3.5 minutes later, AlphaStar wins.
When alpha star wants to push and engage, it knows it will win.
5:11 Alphastar has a habit of blowing up it's own SCVs with siege tank fire.
7:13 "Look at this! One base then the other. AlphaStar back and for like a machine. Well, he is a machine. Never mind." haha funny cast
There are some days on my drive to work that I hope I run into some banshees. But I'm glad I haven't so I can come home and watch more AlphaStar videos.
24:05 Tanks in the front protecting the marines and marines destroying broodlings and broodlords. Nice.
AlphaStar won that main engagement as the human over-extended, then the counter-attack was timed perfectly at the end. The AI's micro and army comp was also proving superb.
That engagement at 23:34.. Guess lack of air attack upgrades made broodlords not capable of taking out the tanks in time. Also a ton of corruptors just went up in, er, bloody mist.
Reenforcing the lesson that if the AI stands, you've picked the wrong fight.
I’ll have to remember tanks and marine kiting kills Broodlords. Screws aí, and alphastar knows all about aí getting screwed.
looking things over it seems like the reason is he kept them all in a tight ball preventing a lot of attack surface area. that and tanks in normal mode one shot broodlings so many of the spawns were not getting more then a single attack, would have been a terrible choice if the zerg had banes in the area. it's kinda like if someone powers through your locusts and is able to chase down your swarm hosts.
AlphaStar taking out those banelings reminded me of a navy destroyers phalanx taking out incoming close threats.
Did the tanks tank the brood lords to help the marines? In the final fight?
There were also two planetary fortresses nearby which was key, especially when the zerglings ran in.
tanks do 15 damage x2 and broodlings have 30 hp so they died before doing enough damage i think
@@1800JimmyG not only that but keeping the tanks and marines in a tight ball minimized attack surface area and spread the damage to the higher hit point units keeping the marines alive longer to do more damage. There is no better unit in the game for sustained damage per second per unit of space then a stimpak marine but they tend to die quickly.
unsieged tanks are way better than most people give then credit for. firing while moving and doing 30 damage a shot isn't bad given how fast the fire rate is.
The important part is that the tanks were unsieged.
Alphastar in this iteration had looser limits to its micro. It may well have been target-firing tanks to different specific broodlings. I also like how its protoss builds from around this time completely abuse the stalker blink to a point that lets it move those units against things that no human player would even try.
Alphastar did walls!
I think the unsieged tanks + marines was what worked against brood lords. Also there may have been an upgrade difference.
Maybe fighting infront of planetary fortres was what defeated the zerg.
that and the way alphastar positioned its marines in between wall of seige tank which messes up the broodling AI making it hard to properly surround the marines is too damn beautiful.
Alphastars massive economy.
Unsieg the tanks and use them to... Tanking the damage from brute's was the think
MasterPlayer just forgot about air upgrades that's all
Obviously AlphaStar has been playing against WinterStarcraft and learned about frontline planetaries
are you sure it was Alphastar and not Zapp Brannigan commanding terrans ? it surely looks like he was fighting vs biological killbots xD
No one seem to comment the mineral production of alphastar. That +3000 mineral vs +2000 mineral must have done a BIG difference 10 minutes later. Seems like alphastar ran an extra base for a long time.
That medivac at 10:26 that just ceases to exist xD
Imagine how cool would be AlphaStar has no APM limit.
Not a sc2 player but I'm pretty sure the game isn't balanced for "infinite" APM and super precise control at the same time so that would probably result in some exploity as fuck play.
Atill might be interesting doing something like 2v1.
the other player would be constantly under attack. it would be a reaper then a hellion reaper and couple marines joining it then a medivac and a tank or a banshee. all of these things being perfectly micro'd for maximum effect while not suffering at all in the macro department.
it would be impossible like trying to throw a ball harder then a cannon can shoot it.
It would get boring pretty quickly.
"APM limits relative to those used in AlphaStar. Reducing APM substantially reduces performance. Unexpectedly, increasing APM also reduces performance, possibly because the agent spends more effort on refining micro-tactics than on learning diverse strategies." That's in the research paper which i found interesting.
@@jonnysith So what you're saying is that even for machines, micro-managing makes them lose sight of the big picture? They really are just like us.
love these as matches... anyway you already have 5000 subs, gj
Wow that was phenomenal!
21:00 that was absolutely awful trading by the master zerg. He couldn't kited that army easily, but instead a-moved his whole ground army into the choke.
And for some reason he just stopped doing run-bys
edit: COULDV'E. sry
KallaMigCP I feel like he just got over confident and stopped playing
Agreed! His brood lords did nothing in that fight because he ran way too far forward
Why did you not actually fix it, what was even the point of the edit?
@@NewLegacy93 To stand by it. And also because it annoys you. tee-hee
@@oftankoftan I completely understand and respect your second point
zerg made mistake attacking too open w broodlords, you want to fight w them over the cliff, so marines cant reach them. Also he didn't pull his antiair to protect broods fast enough, he just went all in w broods alone feeling immortal. Still that was pretty nice job of alphastar to turn that.
The upgrades on the mech enabled the tanks to survive longer and deal more damage to kill the broodlings that much fsster
AI baited human master into turrets and planetary like a pro :)
Zerg should keep broodlords at a distance and spam free units. It was a very bad idea to fly over turrets and marines.
Great game. As always AlphaStar wins to its nearly perfect macro. But not siege those tanks to take no friendly fire was what AlphaStar made so strong in the last fight. Broodlords couldn't deal too much damage because their Broodlings where just shot down.
Luckily no supply block, we have enough likes!
in the middle off battles, AS's money went down while the player's money went up, the player forgot to remake the unit. In the last engagement, the zerglings were late but not sure if it's gonna make any different, because the command center made a nice choke point, it was like the lings came into a meat grinder and just died.
lol didn't expected the end
este juego en particular me dio un poco de miedo. ojalá nunca tengamos una guerra con este tipo de IA
the choke point and fat tanks stopped the broodlings from being effective in the last fight,and the planetary fortress
Great game
I cant believe it! Marines beating Brood Lords! MARINES? BROOD LORDS?
Like its the perfect unit against the perfect victim and went the other way?
But of course those Brood lords was attacking the tanks though instead of the marines when it happened
24:00 nice, the main event
It's a pity that MasterPlayer forgot about air upgrades, he could have won. Anyway GG, thanks
@Tegridy Farms but no armor on air units against +3 attack marines. These broodlords just disappeared in seconds in the end
This one is great sport!
its final form is called Innovation
The tanks just tanks all the broodlings.
congratz on 5k subs
nice content! i like your cast
50 zerglings is only 25 supply vs 50 banelings being 50 supply.... so yeah banelings are going to be better?
In a mental battle of attrition, you cant beat a machine. The Zerg player burned out by the end and started playing worse. Very interesting.
8:52 Alpha-Drop
Really drove the Laugh in laughNgamez 👌
Terran swarm is real swarm
Ohh AlphaStar þu bist so good. 😍
Simple concept - More stuff beats less stuff.
The human should have kept expanding and upgrading. I think he got overconfident. He was probably right to be overconfident though in most cases....
wow
You said this was an early match, and hes playing MUCH better than current. Was this before they capped his APM? That would explain the incredible micro.
If SC2 Was like Magic the Gathering, Zerg would be a Blue/Red/Green Deck while Terrain would be an Artifact dech and Toss would be Light! How can you handle the hoard/castors/counters all in one... vs a human, the zerg would have won this round as i'm not sure any human would drop as non stop as Alpha did to stall the zerg out. I'm shocked that the Marine Tank won that... lol...
Hello, Nice to meet you. Do u know how to match with alphastar or any of A.I.?
Not for a second did I expect Alphastar to lose. The AI's production was 3x better than that zergs if u watch the production tab when he shows it. The zerg just doesn't know what to make and when to make it. A zerg with low production is a dead zerg.
We're all doomed
Please do more videos commenting alpha star games. Other you tubers sucks at it, thanks for being around
*What a game*
23 supply, 23 dislikes, lol. Over a thousand likes. Let's freeze the dislikes!!! LOL
marines are OP....
I always believed in AlphaStar! He's my hero 💙
maybe ask yourself why u make it male for yourself.
How to get this replay overlay?
what the fuck happened.
23:33
WFT the game waits until Zerg has below 4 army before gg,if it was a Terran 30 units loss would be win. Freaking unfair game
Wow much surprise, big blunder by Zerg
9 = badgilion
I have a hunch you are from minnesota.
Marines overpowering mass broodlords. Underdog wins.
Alphastar is weird. It has just slightly not normal play
Pretty disgusting !