Comparison vs the list from six months ago (+5 means the card is now rated 5 slots higher/better than six months ago) Time Walk: +0 Black Lotus: +0 Sol Ring: +0 Mana Crypt: +0 Mox Pearl: +4 Mox Ruby: +1 Mox Jet: +1 Mox Sapphire: -2 Mox Emerald: +1 Ancestral Recall: -5 Flash: +34 Broadside Bombadiers: +17 Forth Eorlingas!: -1 Orcish Bowmasters: -1 Swords to Plowshares: +5 Minsc & Boo: -5 Karakas: New entry (+34 or more) The One Ring: +4 Thoughtseize -2 Lurrus: -2 Fable of the Mirror Breaker: +0 Mana Vault: +4 Tolarian Academy: -8 Demonic Tutor: +0 Parallax Wave: New entry (+26 or more) Reanimate: -10 Animate Dead: -8 Sneak Attack: New entry (+23 or more) Library of Alexandria: -15 Solitude: +2 Ragavan: +8 Force of Will: +5 Psychic Frog: New card Fury: New entry (+17 or more) Urza: +7 Atraxa: -6 Oko: -3 Mana Leak: +5 Palace Jailer: New entry (+12 or more) Fetch Lands: +6 Ocelot Pride: New card Phelia: New card Archon of Cruelty: -8 Remand: New entry (+7 or more) Memory Lapse: +2 Strip Mine: -21 Lightning Bolt: +3 Skullclamp: New entry (+3 or more) Gut: New entry (+2 or more) Pyrogoyf: New card Dropped Off List: Mana Drain (previously 22) Lutri (previously 27, no longer in cube) Urza's Saga (previously 28) Mystic Confluence (previously 31) Entomb (previously 33) Tinker (previously 36) Seasoned Dungeoneer (previously 38, no longer in cube) Caves of Chaos Adventurer (previously 40, no longer in cube) Comet (previously 41, no longer in cube) Mox Diamond (previously 44) Hullbreacher (previously 48) Reprieve (previously 49)
The great thing about this list is seeing a card and saying "oh hell no, that should be higher!" and then I'm unable to justify moving the card over any of the cards above it. Great great list.
lol yeah its the mtg version of the nba top 5 players list. its like ok overzealous t-wolves fan, you think ant is a top 5 nba player. who are you moving him ahead of??
@@dougisacat remand and leak for sure but idk about pride that card has actually seriously impressed and I find white to be underdrafted and reanimator overdrafted in leagues
Mmhm. Mentioned the video to a friend who loves burn and permission, but stopped competing in 2010. He was not happy to learn Lightning Bolt was #47, but understood when I told him where DT and FOW were.
@@dougisacat The problem with Entomb is that it only fits in one style of deck. Ocelot Pride can win a game almost on it's own, and Remand and Mana Leak are INCREDIBLY splashable. Plus they can go in a control deck, a tempo deck, a midrange deck, a combo deck, etc.
The floor of Karakas is higher than the floor for Academy, but the ceiling for Academy is WAY higher than the ceiling for Karakas. That's why you P1P1 Academy. Nobody else has seen it. So nobody knows not to pass you artifacts. It lets you take the best artifacts you see without hesitation.
@@peewee0224 the whole point of this tier list is which cards you want to p1p1. LSV said ver batem that if he was in a 64 player draft to qualify for cube worlds that he would take karakas over academy
@@LucianDevine the whole point of this tier list is which cards you want to p1p1. LSV said ver batem that if he was in a 64 player draft to qualify for cube worlds that he would take karakas over academy
@@henrypendergast8108 the whole point of this tier list is which cards you want to p1p1. lsv said ver batem that if he was in a 64 player draft to qualify for cube worlds that he would take karakas over academy
I feel like in practice LSV has Vaultborn Tyrant higher than Archon. It works with flash and natural order, is castable in Green, works with everything Archon does, and is frequently "the card we want to see."
Yea, the more I think about it, the I think it *should* be higher. If you're picking a card P1P1, losing a small percentage of ceiling to double or triple the number of decks that can play it seems like a no brainer.
@@roarmalf I think that archon has a higher power level and rarely wheels or is still in a pack by 4th or 5th pick but vaultborn tyrant wheels occasionally and you can get it past pick 3 a lot. I don't think I have ever seen lsv pick 1 pack1 take vaultborn t
Pest Infestation is great, but I can't put it over Pyrogoyf in the current iteration of the cube when artifacts is already less powerful than they have been in a long time.
@@Drrgy Tinker just missing the top 50 feels correct. The tinker targets aren't nearly as game winning as they used to be, portal is by far the best but everything else is a cut below the power level now. Very powerful card, but requires a lot of support in the draft. I would probably take a pyrogoyf over it.
@@peewee0224 I think Tinker into Blightsteel is still good if you can do it early. It’s really swingy, but if you can do it in the part of the game where their potential answers are mana limited, you still can get free wins.
Power level wise, I think you could play it, but nobody likes the initiative, and it does hose control decks really hard, which are already not the best decks in cube atm.
@@davidrice752 Yeah I don't disagree. But I am happy it's not in tbh, I don't like initiative. I actually think aggro and midrange have gotten too many new toys to play and are already too resilient.
I'd be interested to see top x lists for different archetypes. What are the cards to push you into an archetype and what cards you don't commit you to it.
Whenever I open my first pack and there's a mana drain I've been sighing and go ahead and pick it. Always nice to hear some pros articulate what I've kind of been feeling. Awesome video 👏👏👏👏
Love the video. Thank you! Would really enjoy these metagame chats more often. Would be interesting to hear you guys breakdown deck archetypes or combos/packages.
Flash over 4th, minsc, and bombadier feels aggressive. Flash still requires you to open, get passed, and then draw during a game the right creature, which depending on the creature and board state may not come close to winning. On the other hand, 4th, minsc, and bombadier are one card “deal with this or you lose quickly” plays. Double color obviously hurts to some extent. Edit: amazing vid btw, love seeing these! I hope we also get more vids when new sets come out on vintage viable cards!
@@patmepin15I hadn’t gotten that far yet, so thanks for the explanation! That makes sense too. I suppose my only response would be that Flash stands out as the only card in that row (plus maybe karakas) which does literally nothing on its own and is completely dependent on opening other powerful cards. That is a huge difference with the other top cards, but like LSV said they are all close.
But how much more likely are you going to get passed the right cards when you opened the Flash? No one else even knows that card is in the draft, while you are crafting your deck around it from the beginning. That element really is not so difficult. And BK addresses your more recent comment that it "does nothing on its own" in the video, in that while it does require the two pieces, requiring a card in your hand is not a huge cost because once you do draw them, it doesn't require mana or a favorable gamestate. You just need the Flash to resolve. Bombardiers requires some setup and can't attack freely on all boards, 4th requires mana and time, and Minsc is most exempt but has mana requirements, costs 4, and defensively can just be a 4/4. As a combo, Flash is cheap!
@@Kendal411 True, but Flash does at least have several cards that can make it good, and your deck doesn't HAVE to be a dedicated Flash deck. Sure, it's great if you are, let's say UB with Mystical Tutor, Spellseeker, Vamp Tutor, and Demonic Tutor to help get your Flash and/or your creatures, but you can also just run a deck normal deck that happens to have Flash+creature in it. So while it's narrow in what it does, it works with enough stuff, and has enough raw power, that it puts it over the top of the other stuff in that column. You're also forgetting that we're talking about a P1P1 Flash, which means that nobody else has seen it. Yes, Reanimator, Sneak, Breach players might want some of your fatties, but you only need 1-2 to be good enough. Plus Reanimator has to be busy taking the other 2 parts of it's combo, and Sneak and Breach are just 2 cards that aren't NEARLY as P1P1 worthy.
16:38 I think part of the reason that people in the comments are sometimes down on Lurrus is that, you had a few Lurrus drafts in the semi-recent past, where a lot of games ended without you even putting Lurrus into hand, which makes it _seem_ like you warped your draft for “nothing”; never mind that, if the opponent opens on, like, island, mox, flash, worldspine (or whatever it was), I mean, you weren’t going to win that game no matter what.
yeah well said. when lurrus decks lose they just look and feel so underpowered compared to the broken stuff other people are doing. its like yeah i would have gone mox into flash into worldspine too if i opened that instead of lurrus and ocelot pride lol.
The one that hit me the hardest was when he had Solitude in the sideboard because of Lurrus, and the opponent went turn 1 Lotus, Tireless Tracker plus Lightning Greaves, a start that Solitude could have wrecked.
@@dementievatz 1 of 40 cards vs having an "8th card" in hand and sometimes what they Lotus out isn't beatable by Solitude anyway. I think you are being results oriented. Lurrus decks are very powerful.
Could be fun to see a comparison between the current top 50 list and the last one each time you do these. Thanks for all the great content been enjoying your cube videos from way back in early CFB they got me back into magic.
I used to think this way, but I find when you don't end up with power or a dedicated artifact deck it's not that strong. It's more narrow than it looks due to these dependencies. not far from top 50 tho and if I have a piece of artifact power already im picking it over most of these cards in the top 50
The final five minutes of the video were a great bonus section/teaser for cards 51 through 100; a follow-up video on this next tier would be decidedly dope!
Anger. Nobody ever wants that card. I think Hired Claw is also really low quality for Cube. This is just looking at cards that are generally bad, not cards that are powerful but narrow like Doomsday.
@@dementievatz Elemental Eruption is so bad that you didn't even think of it. I think that card is last-pick almost actual 100% of the time. Played never.
I really love these videos, and always look forward to them. As people with your own paper cubes outside of MTGO, would you ever consider making a video talking about the most powerful cards not in the MTGO vintage cube?
I agree with flash,forth erolingas bombadeers and minsc and boo are probably best non power cards in cube. I think Urzas saga and balance are top 50 cards or at least should have been honorable mentions??? Fire covenant is top 50 for me. And I guess Grisseldaddy is kind of like emrakul in place with archon in the fatties spot and are kinda on spec picks in p1p1 . Great list!! I have always loved strip mine but I kinda have I lower now days as it really has diminished value if you don't have it in first couple of turns or multiple ways to recurr it.. honorable mention to gaes cradle but it does wheel a lot and takes build around. Thanks for the effort I put this together cube popularity has exploded in the last year or two and your content is great!!
Blue - 11 Red - 10 White - 9 Black - 9 Green - 3 When cards like Channel, Fastbond, and Pest Infestation aren't good enough to crack the Top 50, you know your color is in trouble.
@@Lollerpwn1337 I think that the distribution shows that the cube is well color balanced for every color other than Green. I think that this is because some of the best combo pieces for Green (Glimpse of Nature, Earthcraft, Golgari Grave-Troll, Berserk) are either unsupported or unsupportable in the current iteration of the cube. The current setup of playing mana dorks to accelerate into so-so payoffs is not really working well, especially considering how many deck slots end up dedicated to mana when you are playing 16-17 lands and 3-5 mana dorks.
@@ninjanoodle2674 I almost don't want to count ancestral time walk and flash as "blue" cards. They don't necessarily pull you into blue but they still almost always make your deck no matter how the draft goes (flash obviously needs the draft to go a certain way to play it but it's not uncommon for the only blue card in your flash deck to be flash). Blue card quality falls off a cliff after flash, not that force and leak are bad persay, but a gameplan of holding up mana and reacting generally is. Force and leak should be top 50 but I'd argue lapseand remand should not be. Pest infestation got robbed.
@@Lollerpwn1337 The difference is entirely that the power nine contains 2 blue cards. Red is definitely a step above white in terms of top threats, White just has way more replacements that are almost as good as the top cards.
Green has a lot of redundancy, which hurts it in the rankings. Most green cards are interchangeable with each other. Plus, lands is just too slow these days. The good news for green is that it pairs exceptionally well with most other colors (besides white), as it both fixes for them and ramps you into their high-end. Hell, you can easily go 5-color if you have a solid green base, which means you can play all the best cards you get passed. This part doesn't show up in the ratings but green allows you to gobble up random top cube cards since you don't need to worry as much about your mana base.
Great list and video as always. I would find a way to fit Urza's Saga in that list because that card has won me more games than any other card in cube (that and Balance).
Mana Leak, Remand AND Memory Lapse over Mana Drain. It's probably correct but it startled me, I have been down on the card lately but it used to be one of my favourite ways to start a draft outside of power. Last time I drafted my own powered cube I did get to counter an aggressive 2drop(I think it was Inti or Magda) into jamming early One Ring on the play. That felt pretty good.
I think one of the big objections to Lurrus is the extra 3 mana at sorcery speed to put it into hand, which Luis' typically glosses over. The better 3 mana plays are, the more of a tax it is to pay 3 mana to get a Lurrus in hand - not just the fact that you can't put those 3 mana cards in your deck. It's a little like the mox/ancestral argument where the speed is just more valuable than the extra cards. Sometimes Lurrus just gets stranded by a fast deck and Lurrus decks have a lot less cards that can catch you back up (often 3-4 mana plays)
Agreed, also theres so many ways of getting card advantage. I've won quite a few Lurrus companion trophies where lurrus doesn't even come into play any of the games because it's so slow. Companion zirda for example when you get there is a much better companion because there it wins the game for you and you always have the combo piece in available.
You just don't get it. Lurrus is never in your hand. Lurrus is never in your deck. You never need to pay for it, but you always can if you want to. The only downside to the card is the deckbuilding restriction. It is far more powerful than you think because you don't even understand where its power comes from.
@@dirtydard4870 Lol, I have multiple Lurrus companion trophies this season. I do understand the concepts you are stating here. Maybe you shouldn't assume people who disagree with you are stupid. The deckbuilding restriction is a downside but not too bad, your cube deck shouldnt have many expensive cards anyway. The problem with Lurrus is that it's really expensive card advantage in a cube where theres soooo much card advantage. Also card advantage isnt worth as much these days because decks don't need to outcard you as much as they used to to kill you. If you are facing a good agressive deck or a good combo deck the game is often decided before you could get value of Lurrus. If you want to improve at the cube you should not just theorycraft. Also look at how games play out. A ton of games with your lurrus deck it isn't relevant that you have it in your companion zone. So your just left with the deckbuilding restriction. I think the most impressed I was with my lurrus companion this season is when I got it to hand then pitched it to psychic frog to get lethal.
@@Lollerpwn1337 But part of the reason your deck IS that good and fast is because it's a Lurrus deck. The fact that you didn't need Lurrus doesn't matter. It was still there in case you did.
What would be great is if you'd also mention cards that dropped out of the top 50. Mystic Confluence dropping out from a very high position for example. I would have found that interesting. As for Lurrus, I started picking it lower and lower because of your results with the deck, but maybe I missed the streams where you won with it.
Great stuff. Would really love to see a "50 most underrated cards" video. For my two cents, Lurrus and the fetches, like I'm always taking a bolt or Strip Mine over those. Urza and Oko are also lower than something like Ancient Tomb or even (probably the most underrated card) City of Traitors.
I hear you, but mana leak/remand/memory lapse > Mana drain is wild to me. Also I'd take Mox Diamond over basically every card after demonic tutor p1p1 (Maybe except Library and FoW), but I also realize that I probably like that card a bit too much.
Really solid list. I always look forward to these. I'm curious how much a card being a good or bad later game top deck goes into your equation for deciding where to rank a card. Some cards like Library of Alexandria and (I know it's not here on your list, but) Fastbond, and honestly even moxes are absolutely busted in the opening draw, but are awful top decks after the first few turns. Whereas something like Forth Eolingas! or Pyrogoyf is fine enough in the opening hand, but the card you frequently hope to top deck more than anything else.
Given he (and BK) have been talking about the importance of keeping up with explosive draws in the early game, particularly on the draw, top deck-ability is probably less weighted than how it is in the opening hand. Also, don’t sleep on the late game mox. They are almost always broken. Drawing one on turn 6 so you can drop your 3 and 4 on the same turn is busted as hell
@@giancarlocafaro6734 Yeah, I agree that they do seem to value explosive draws and it makes sense for sure. But I feel like those games where you get blown out (or blow someone else out) on turn 2 by a crazy draw stick in the mind better than all those times where your busted early game cards were actually a liability because you drew them too late or didn't draw the other card in the combo. After all, you have less than a 25% chance of drawing those cards in your opening hand when they are the most potent. And yes, moxes can definitely be amazing even late game, and I certainly would never suggest they aren't first pickable. But they are at their best on turn one or two for sure.
Would really love to see a video or something about cards cube is missing if you could create custom cards or old cards that you would like to see if they were changed for cube. For instance I'd suggest we could use a really expensive creature artifact wincon to replace something like blightsteel.[maybe with affinity for artifacts so you could cheat it or just get enough density of artifacts ] Or hey what's a 3/2 goblin guide feel like in cube or does a cycle of enchantment dual lands make enchantress good enough for cube ?
Enchantments is really an interesting one. Like I have thought about whether Serra’s Sanctum could work in cube, but there just aren’t a ton of busted enchantments the same magnitude as busted artifacts, and creatures are just desirable in general, so Sanctum ends up much more narrow than Academy or Cradle.
At that point I'd rather just see the list expanded to a top 75 or top 100. It's already close (72 cards) once we include all the fetches and the runners-up.
I like it. At a certain point you're just gonna have neanderthals in the comments arguing about whether Hexdrinker belongs 78th over Snapcaster Mage and all usefulness is lost. For P1P1 it makes sense to have a pretty tight list seeing as the percentage you open a pack without any of these is effectively zero.
they do explain why the moxen are ordered and the fetches aren't. tldr: some decks/colors make better use of the fast mana than others, fetches are all about the same because of the amount of duals/triomes with basic land types (10 alpha duals, 10 shocklands, 10 triomes, 10 surveil duals)
Glad to see Fury and Palace Jailer in this edition. It was making me lose my mind that both were outside the top 50 last time. Mana Drain is still better than Memory lapse and Remand, imo. Urza's Saga should be on the outer edge of the top 50 or at least an honorable mention
I wonder if the Blue two mana counters are a bit too high? Blue has slipped and their placement in the rankings should probably reflect that. Cheap proactive threats like Ajani, Luminarch Aspirant, Inti and Containment Priest all feel like they're at least as good to me. Then again, I suppose I'd put all of the aforementioned cards in the tier of cards below fetchlands along with cards 40-50 in this list, and by the sounds of things LSV and BK were alluding to Phelia kinda standing in for the other white two drops too. Urza's Saga also seems like a bit of an oversight. Am I crazy for feeling pretty comfortable taking it over a fetch P1P1? Feels like it should at least be in the 30-40 range? It keeps you open, is bonkers with any reasonable density of artifacts, and it plays great in many other archetypes too (lands, nadu, skullclamp etc).
Definitely the reason mana drain isn’t on the list. That being said, the best blue splashes outside of power and flash are definitely counters, even as a very light splash. Counters are still so so busted against everything but particularly the kind of early broken stuff that can win games. Mana leak deserves the nod and while remand and lapse are clearly not as good, a skilled pilot that knows they have that as an out can maneuver themselves to a game winning position. Also, I feel like saga not being on the list is more due to the lack of artifacts in this iteration. It’s harder for it to just end up good in any deck cause the artifacts are all being taken by the artifact deck.
Hard to quantify but i feel like chrome mox and mox diamond are underrated here. So many decks that contain some of these top 50-10 cards dont get there but would if they had a chrome mox or mox diamo d
It's really interesting to see that white, blue, black and red are about equally represented whilst green only shows up on three multicolor cards, of which Atraxa is rarely actually cast.
Oh absolutely! Did you see that pump-fake in a draft were he celebrated and talked for a minute about why Lurrus was the perfect pick? That was an improvised Magic joke elevated to the realm of art.
one advantage reprieve has is it doesn’t say “counter” so it is an answer to uncounterable spells (e.g., way better to counter the emrakul in channel -> emrakul than to counter the channel). But yeah, white’s not a particularly reactive color in the cube so that’s a niche use case in a niche deck.
Great list! It's touched on sometimes but I also love hearing which cards you think are on the bubble or have over stayed their welcome. Could a bottom 50 or 50 most likely to be cut list be interesting?
Definitely need these like once a quarter - Wotc keep printing new crazy carss nonstop! Definitely feel like Urzas saga, balance, pest infestation, and OG duals need a mention right outside of the top50
I don't know about if it makes the list or not but how are people feeling about the other force (force of negation) in drafts? It is a little worse in the fact it can't hit everything but it is more realistic to hard cast in comparison to Force of will.
Still watching the video, the two cards that are missing in this top 50 at first glance are: Entomb and Vaultborn Tyrant. EDIT: Ye I like the explanation of Entomb; I'm a bit higher on it still but totally respect it just not coming together often enough. Vaultborn Tyrant though, I'm pressure I like that one more than e.g. Emrakul.
Agree with pretty much everything except flash being so high. You really need a very specific set of cards to support flash for to be good, whereas cards like forth eorlingas or minsk and boo are going to be great additions to just about any deck
You mentioned this as a passing comment in one of your videos, and I'm curious if you can elaborate. How close are you guys to cutting Karakas from your cube because of how oppressive it is?
I get the sentiment on lurrus but where i disagree is passing on legitimately premium cards early in the draft to tunnel on companioning. If i see lurrus, I'll take it. But I'm still taking palace jailer or sheoldred over filler 1/2 mana cards if i see them in the next couple packs. Lurrus is still a good cards in the maindeck and i dont think that a 4/10 deck with lurrus companion is better than an 8/10 deck with lurrus in the 40
I find it hard to believe you're not taking strip mine higher. It's the definition of a high floor, as it has -roughly- the same impact in the game every time, It's always making it into the deck, and that's assuming you're not doing ramunap-crucible shenanigans. Mana vault I think is probably too high, as the better threats in the cube (you have them all on display here) don't have 3 colorless at all in their mana cost. The last thing is mana drain, I understand the rationale but I disagree on the ranking, I mean maybe it has come down some, but outside of the top 50 seems incorrect. I'd put it over remand and lapse for sure, maybe around fetch-lands. Anyway great video! love your content guys.
Mana Vault doesn't need 3 colorless in a single spell, just in a single turn. Lately I've been using it more often to cast a 2 mana + 3 mana card on turn 2 in the aggressive decks. Agree on Strip though, just a good aggro card.
It would not be above time walk. I think it would seriously compete with ancestral though. I dont think any other companion cracks the top 50 with the old rule.
@@johannesschroder943 I think I might actually even consider unnerfed Lurrus over moxens, regardless it's crazy to think that they printed a card in a recent set that's so incredibly broken it's legit in competition with the p9.
Yes, cube is so proactive now. You dont want your plan to be hold up uu and wait especially if you end up on the draw and your opponent can just play a 3 drop before you get your second island. What are you even ramping into from your startof uu, jace? Mana drain is still obviously a good card but def not a top 50 first pick. Blue just isn't as strong as it used to be I'd argue remand and lapse shouldn't be in the top 50 either. Crazy they put remand on here and not reprieve, which is just a better version of that effect and in a better color.
@@Cthuski Yea I think these counters are just not firstpick material in the cube with how proactive it is. Very often if I have a deck with a bunch of counters im already super losing by the time I could cast them.
Mana leak is a great card, but it’s hard to imagine I’m p1p1 a mana leak over a fetch or some of the other cards in the column next to it. Specifically ocelot pride and pyrogoyf I think id take over a mana leak right now
The only big question mark I have here is strip mine over fetches. I think p1p1 you nearly always would take strip over fetch. That effect is so much less replaceable if you're in a deck that wants it and it sets you up to be the only seat that really wants the cards that work with it. I don't know if that means strip should be higher or fetches should be lower, but that's my one big question in these rankings. But I'm also just a rando in the youtube comments, what do I know
Is cube actually getting more fun as cards get cheaper and faster? I feel like one day Ancestral’s going to be number 20 on this list and we’ll be saying “you just don’t have time to draw cards” and we’ll have strayed much too far from God’s light.
You're much better cubers than me but the only thing I wanted to contribute is that I think Fury might be overrated here as it can often get stuck in your hand and not change the game state and it not being an instant like Solitude is a huge deal. I also think Channel's stock is going way up, but it's so narrow I can understand it not being in the top 50. TLDR, Fury may be overrated, Channel may be top 50
At this point me and lsv have to agree to disagree about lurrus. i respect the theory behind why its so good, but in practice ive rarely seen it have a huge impact. Plenty of games where its never even put into hand. It also drastically warps the way you draft cards and locks you out of so many broken 3 and 4 cost cards.
The hidden text on lurrus is that you draft a deck that's insanely consistent most of the time just out of necessity. You rarely mulligan with a standard BW lurrus deck. You also look for cards that are super late picks that other people don't want and you can definitely get them it's an S tier pick 1.
I'm smart enough to realize that my assessment of a card is off when the hall of fame mtg player and his group of highly invested, competitive daily drafters say that the only card banned from Vintage for power level reasons is good. 👍
I have had alot of success with lurrus. But I already like tempo decks with cheap creatures and premium interaction. And fractured identity really works well for the archtype. If you already have a great tempo deck lurrus gives you a real "midrange" style of inevitability. Most of my lurrus decks end up playing blue cards usally three to four colors. You dont want green most of the time. But cube is also about playing to your strengths as a drafter and a player. And if your struggling to make one deck work theres enough different kinds of decks to play that can be successful. Speaking for myself I love lurrus decks but if other cubers dont I have no problems with that.
The one I would most expect to see is Channel. LSV has picked it pretty high in some recent drafts, and its upside is similar to Flash, while much riskier.
Probably the most incorrect placement on this list. Yes, Swords is the most efficient removal spell in the cube, but it's such a massive opportunity cost to value it as a p1p1 that you take over "win the game on their own" cards like Oko when most other spot removal spells are freely available on the wheel and can get the job done just as well on the majority of board states.
Here's my argument against Lurrus being top 50 that I haven't seen/heard: it warps the way you draft deceptively because humans are really bad dealing with sunk costs. You "want to make Lurrus work" so suddenly a whole subset of cards rise in value and another subset sink in value, even as early as P1P2. You are now justifying filler like Mishra's Bauble much higher. I don't think Lurrus stans have the discipline to stay open and keep equity balanced with other picks early on, and I think there's plenty of evidence on this channel (and elsewhere) to support this. Lurrus is obviously a great magic card and I love when Lurrus works, but P1P1-Play-To-Win, I don't think Lurrus should be at #20.
When we rank lurrus highly, we understand and compensate for the cost of warping your picks. The reason P1P1 lurrus is so good is because you can absolutely force it and always end up with a good deck, sorta like the way you can always force 5 color good stuff. There are 8 different 2 color pairs you can draft with lurrus companion. When you P1P1 lurrus, you force it and you know you can't get screwed. Normally forcing something in a draft is a recipe for disaster, because most strategies are more narrow and less flexible, but all lurrus says is that you have to play either white or black, and you have to play cheap permanents. There's zero chance that all of your different paths will all be cut. So you can just throw out the regular drafting rule which says you're not allowed to force something hard. This actually makes your deck stronger because you don't waste a single pick on cards that won't be in your deck, aside from if you have to switch one of your colors which is unlikely
100% agree. Lurrus is the card you wheel or get early in pack two once you've already gotten the cheap removal and creatures. P1P1 I'd rather have a fetch
Oh no I have to warp my deck to play the good cheap cards what ever will I do. All jokes aside the cost isn’t that insane with a lot of 2 and 1 drops are game winning. It’s a value engine that actively makes you wanna 1 for 1 your opponent to death and doing that will win you most games. Not to mention you can play 3 4 and 5 cost instant and sorcery spells. The downside is way overblown and the upside is just game winning.
The problem comes in not having a cohesive deck if you DON"T force your picks to make it companionable. Your deck is SO much better if you have it as a permanent option for an 8th card in your hand than if you just end up putting it in your deck and run non-Lurrus companionable cards. It's another floor-ceiling thing. If you try to stay open after P1P1 Lurrus, you WILL end up with a weaker deck with worse options than if you just committed to it from P1P1 onward.
I'm curious why bowmasters is so high. I think it's really good but there's alot of cards on this list I would take over it. It keeps very slowly ticking down the list for me. The flexibility is incredible but I either want a high impact card or a fetch p1p1
Comparison vs the list from six months ago (+5 means the card is now rated 5 slots higher/better than six months ago)
Time Walk: +0
Black Lotus: +0
Sol Ring: +0
Mana Crypt: +0
Mox Pearl: +4
Mox Ruby: +1
Mox Jet: +1
Mox Sapphire: -2
Mox Emerald: +1
Ancestral Recall: -5
Flash: +34
Broadside Bombadiers: +17
Forth Eorlingas!: -1
Orcish Bowmasters: -1
Swords to Plowshares: +5
Minsc & Boo: -5
Karakas: New entry (+34 or more)
The One Ring: +4
Thoughtseize -2
Lurrus: -2
Fable of the Mirror Breaker: +0
Mana Vault: +4
Tolarian Academy: -8
Demonic Tutor: +0
Parallax Wave: New entry (+26 or more)
Reanimate: -10
Animate Dead: -8
Sneak Attack: New entry (+23 or more)
Library of Alexandria: -15
Solitude: +2
Ragavan: +8
Force of Will: +5
Psychic Frog: New card
Fury: New entry (+17 or more)
Urza: +7
Atraxa: -6
Oko: -3
Mana Leak: +5
Palace Jailer: New entry (+12 or more)
Fetch Lands: +6
Ocelot Pride: New card
Phelia: New card
Archon of Cruelty: -8
Remand: New entry (+7 or more)
Memory Lapse: +2
Strip Mine: -21
Lightning Bolt: +3
Skullclamp: New entry (+3 or more)
Gut: New entry (+2 or more)
Pyrogoyf: New card
Dropped Off List:
Mana Drain (previously 22)
Lutri (previously 27, no longer in cube)
Urza's Saga (previously 28)
Mystic Confluence (previously 31)
Entomb (previously 33)
Tinker (previously 36)
Seasoned Dungeoneer (previously 38, no longer in cube)
Caves of Chaos Adventurer (previously 40, no longer in cube)
Comet (previously 41, no longer in cube)
Mox Diamond (previously 44)
Hullbreacher (previously 48)
Reprieve (previously 49)
Oh wow love this - thanks for putting that together
The great thing about this list is seeing a card and saying "oh hell no, that should be higher!" and then I'm unable to justify moving the card over any of the cards above it. Great great list.
lol yeah its the mtg version of the nba top 5 players list. its like ok overzealous t-wolves fan, you think ant is a top 5 nba player. who are you moving him ahead of??
I think I would take entomb over like an ocelot pride or remand mana leak, such a powerful card
@@dougisacat remand and leak for sure but idk about pride that card has actually seriously impressed and I find white to be underdrafted and reanimator overdrafted in leagues
Mmhm. Mentioned the video to a friend who loves burn and permission, but stopped competing in 2010. He was not happy to learn Lightning Bolt was #47, but understood when I told him where DT and FOW were.
@@dougisacat The problem with Entomb is that it only fits in one style of deck. Ocelot Pride can win a game almost on it's own, and Remand and Mana Leak are INCREDIBLY splashable. Plus they can go in a control deck, a tempo deck, a midrange deck, a combo deck, etc.
Guy on the right has some good opinions. I could see him winning one or even multiple 64 player drafts in the future.
Ok, but we will never see LSV actually pick Karakas over Academy P1P1.
Yeah I understand what they are saying but p1p1 you always slam academy over karakas. The ceiling of academy is unbeatable.
The floor of Karakas is higher than the floor for Academy, but the ceiling for Academy is WAY higher than the ceiling for Karakas. That's why you P1P1 Academy. Nobody else has seen it. So nobody knows not to pass you artifacts. It lets you take the best artifacts you see without hesitation.
@@peewee0224 the whole point of this tier list is which cards you want to p1p1. LSV said ver batem that if he was in a 64 player draft to qualify for cube worlds that he would take karakas over academy
@@LucianDevine the whole point of this tier list is which cards you want to p1p1. LSV said ver batem that if he was in a 64 player draft to qualify for cube worlds that he would take karakas over academy
@@henrypendergast8108 the whole point of this tier list is which cards you want to p1p1. lsv said ver batem that if he was in a 64 player draft to qualify for cube worlds that he would take karakas over academy
I feel like in practice LSV has Vaultborn Tyrant higher than Archon. It works with flash and natural order, is castable in Green, works with everything Archon does,
and is frequently "the card we want to see."
Yea, the more I think about it, the I think it *should* be higher. If you're picking a card P1P1, losing a small percentage of ceiling to double or triple the number of decks that can play it seems like a no brainer.
@@roarmalf Agreed 100%. Tyrant even unlocks eureka.
@@Sidnv Which we actually saw cast in a recent video!
One is the correct pick for the brain and the correct pick for the soul
@@roarmalf I think that archon has a higher power level and rarely wheels or is still in a pack by 4th or 5th pick but vaultborn tyrant wheels occasionally and you can get it past pick 3 a lot. I don't think I have ever seen lsv pick 1 pack1 take vaultborn t
Pretty lucky draft but don't you think 50 cards is a lot for a cube deck?
And they didn't even try to companion lurrus smh
Solid list. I think Pest Infestation is a glaring omission. Also, I predict Ajani will be in the top 50 next time you do this.
Pest Infestation is great, but I can't put it over Pyrogoyf in the current iteration of the cube when artifacts is already less powerful than they have been in a long time.
Tinker is probably a more glaring one
@@Drrgy Tinker just missing the top 50 feels correct. The tinker targets aren't nearly as game winning as they used to be, portal is by far the best but everything else is a cut below the power level now. Very powerful card, but requires a lot of support in the draft. I would probably take a pyrogoyf over it.
@@Sidnvyeah tinker into blightsteel is just not a good play anymore which feels so weird lol
@@peewee0224 I think Tinker into Blightsteel is still good if you can do it early. It’s really swingy, but if you can do it in the part of the game where their potential answers are mana limited, you still can get free wins.
I really liked the end of the video. The top 10-20 are more obvious, but those lower slots give us more to talk about.
I love that white plume is so good and broken that we no longer have it in cubes.
Powermax is comming after vintage cube worlds I think.
rubbish mechanic
Power level wise, I think you could play it, but nobody likes the initiative, and it does hose control decks really hard, which are already not the best decks in cube atm.
@@Sidnv I mean that’s what I’m saying. I think white plume adventurer would be there with flash.
@@davidrice752 Yeah I don't disagree. But I am happy it's not in tbh, I don't like initiative. I actually think aggro and midrange have gotten too many new toys to play and are already too resilient.
I'd be interested to see top x lists for different archetypes. What are the cards to push you into an archetype and what cards you don't commit you to it.
Same thing I was thinking. A ranking of archetypes would be cool, or even just a list and explanation of them.
Whenever I open my first pack and there's a mana drain I've been sighing and go ahead and pick it. Always nice to hear some pros articulate what I've kind of been feeling. Awesome video 👏👏👏👏
Love the video. Thank you! Would really enjoy these metagame chats more often. Would be interesting to hear you guys breakdown deck archetypes or combos/packages.
Crabomination is my favorite card to get rid of my own ring, draw 3 or 6 cards with my ring then cast my crab for 3 mana by sacing it
sick tech
I like dismember & snuff out as honorable mentions. Dismember nearly a sword and snuff out is great when your opponent thinks you have nothing
I agree. Although the nonblack restriction on Snuff Out has gotten me a few times.
Flash over 4th, minsc, and bombadier feels aggressive. Flash still requires you to open, get passed, and then draw during a game the right creature, which depending on the creature and board state may not come close to winning. On the other hand, 4th, minsc, and bombadier are one card “deal with this or you lose quickly” plays. Double color obviously hurts to some extent.
Edit: amazing vid btw, love seeing these! I hope we also get more vids when new sets come out on vintage viable cards!
he kinda explains it at 19:51. The floor on Flash is very low but the ceiling is extremely high and doesn't take much to make the card outstanding.
@@patmepin15I hadn’t gotten that far yet, so thanks for the explanation! That makes sense too.
I suppose my only response would be that Flash stands out as the only card in that row (plus maybe karakas) which does literally nothing on its own and is completely dependent on opening other powerful cards. That is a huge difference with the other top cards, but like LSV said they are all close.
But how much more likely are you going to get passed the right cards when you opened the Flash? No one else even knows that card is in the draft, while you are crafting your deck around it from the beginning. That element really is not so difficult.
And BK addresses your more recent comment that it "does nothing on its own" in the video, in that while it does require the two pieces, requiring a card in your hand is not a huge cost because once you do draw them, it doesn't require mana or a favorable gamestate. You just need the Flash to resolve. Bombardiers requires some setup and can't attack freely on all boards, 4th requires mana and time, and Minsc is most exempt but has mana requirements, costs 4, and defensively can just be a 4/4.
As a combo, Flash is cheap!
yeah, lsv wants you to pick flash and pass him the forth eorlingas
@@Kendal411 True, but Flash does at least have several cards that can make it good, and your deck doesn't HAVE to be a dedicated Flash deck. Sure, it's great if you are, let's say UB with Mystical Tutor, Spellseeker, Vamp Tutor, and Demonic Tutor to help get your Flash and/or your creatures, but you can also just run a deck normal deck that happens to have Flash+creature in it. So while it's narrow in what it does, it works with enough stuff, and has enough raw power, that it puts it over the top of the other stuff in that column.
You're also forgetting that we're talking about a P1P1 Flash, which means that nobody else has seen it. Yes, Reanimator, Sneak, Breach players might want some of your fatties, but you only need 1-2 to be good enough. Plus Reanimator has to be busy taking the other 2 parts of it's combo, and Sneak and Breach are just 2 cards that aren't NEARLY as P1P1 worthy.
16:38 I think part of the reason that people in the comments are sometimes down on Lurrus is that, you had a few Lurrus drafts in the semi-recent past, where a lot of games ended without you even putting Lurrus into hand, which makes it _seem_ like you warped your draft for “nothing”; never mind that, if the opponent opens on, like, island, mox, flash, worldspine (or whatever it was), I mean, you weren’t going to win that game no matter what.
yeah well said. when lurrus decks lose they just look and feel so underpowered compared to the broken stuff other people are doing. its like yeah i would have gone mox into flash into worldspine too if i opened that instead of lurrus and ocelot pride lol.
Personally I just like to joke about it because it's a funny to do so. Inside I'm always rooting for the cat.
The one that hit me the hardest was when he had Solitude in the sideboard because of Lurrus, and the opponent went turn 1 Lotus, Tireless Tracker plus Lightning Greaves, a start that Solitude could have wrecked.
@@dementievatz 1 of 40 cards vs having an "8th card" in hand and sometimes what they Lotus out isn't beatable by Solitude anyway. I think you are being results oriented. Lurrus decks are very powerful.
@@dementievatz By wrecked, you mean generated a 2 for 2?
I'd love to see something similar to this but for archetypes/combos
Could be fun to see a comparison between the current top 50 list and the last one each time you do these. Thanks for all the great content been enjoying your cube videos from way back in early CFB they got me back into magic.
These are the best videos of the channel, stoked every time there's one.
I can't believe you put Batterskull at #3
I would have Urza's Saga solidly in my top 50. It's certainly better than Ancient Tomb P1P1, or am I crazy?
Urza's Saga is as powerful as it's build arounds. If artifacts are weaker, then Urza's Saga is weaker.
I used to think this way, but I find when you don't end up with power or a dedicated artifact deck it's not that strong.
It's more narrow than it looks due to these dependencies.
not far from top 50 tho and if I have a piece of artifact power already im picking it over most of these cards in the top 50
The final five minutes of the video were a great bonus section/teaser for cards 51 through 100; a follow-up video on this next tier would be decidedly dope!
Bottom 50 last picks please.
@@burtreynoldz6308 That's interesting
Anger. Nobody ever wants that card. I think Hired Claw is also really low quality for Cube. This is just looking at cards that are generally bad, not cards that are powerful but narrow like Doomsday.
Every madness payoff (which is crazy, you'd think the draft would self correct and people would start drafting this).
@@dementievatz Elemental Eruption is so bad that you didn't even think of it. I think that card is last-pick almost actual 100% of the time. Played never.
I really love these videos, and always look forward to them. As people with your own paper cubes outside of MTGO, would you ever consider making a video talking about the most powerful cards not in the MTGO vintage cube?
Great idea. Even just on MTGO, LSV has some 40K cards that are excellent in Cube, but Daybreak has never added them (maybe IP reasons?).
I agree with flash,forth erolingas bombadeers and minsc and boo are probably best non power cards in cube. I think Urzas saga and balance are top 50 cards or at least should have been honorable mentions??? Fire covenant is top 50 for me. And I guess Grisseldaddy is kind of like emrakul in place with archon in the fatties spot and are kinda on spec picks in p1p1 . Great list!! I have always loved strip mine but I kinda have I lower now days as it really has diminished value if you don't have it in first couple of turns or multiple ways to recurr it.. honorable mention to gaes cradle but it does wheel a lot and takes build around. Thanks for the effort I put this together cube popularity has exploded in the last year or two and your content is great!!
Also I love parallax wave probably the most underrated card in the whole cube, how many games do you really lose if you resolve it??? Not many!!
Blue - 11
Red - 10
White - 9
Black - 9
Green - 3
When cards like Channel, Fastbond, and Pest Infestation aren't good enough to crack the Top 50, you know your color is in trouble.
Shows that their playgroup overrates U and underrates white by quite a lot.
@@Lollerpwn1337 I think that the distribution shows that the cube is well color balanced for every color other than Green. I think that this is because some of the best combo pieces for Green (Glimpse of Nature, Earthcraft, Golgari Grave-Troll, Berserk) are either unsupported or unsupportable in the current iteration of the cube. The current setup of playing mana dorks to accelerate into so-so payoffs is not really working well, especially considering how many deck slots end up dedicated to mana when you are playing 16-17 lands and 3-5 mana dorks.
@@ninjanoodle2674 I almost don't want to count ancestral time walk and flash as "blue" cards. They don't necessarily pull you into blue but they still almost always make your deck no matter how the draft goes (flash obviously needs the draft to go a certain way to play it but it's not uncommon for the only blue card in your flash deck to be flash). Blue card quality falls off a cliff after flash, not that force and leak are bad persay, but a gameplan of holding up mana and reacting generally is. Force and leak should be top 50 but I'd argue lapseand remand should not be. Pest infestation got robbed.
@@Lollerpwn1337 The difference is entirely that the power nine contains 2 blue cards. Red is definitely a step above white in terms of top threats, White just has way more replacements that are almost as good as the top cards.
Green has a lot of redundancy, which hurts it in the rankings. Most green cards are interchangeable with each other. Plus, lands is just too slow these days. The good news for green is that it pairs exceptionally well with most other colors (besides white), as it both fixes for them and ramps you into their high-end. Hell, you can easily go 5-color if you have a solid green base, which means you can play all the best cards you get passed. This part doesn't show up in the ratings but green allows you to gobble up random top cube cards since you don't need to worry as much about your mana base.
Great list and video as always. I would find a way to fit Urza's Saga in that list because that card has won me more games than any other card in cube (that and Balance).
Yeah, I think Urza's Saga is better than Urza himself for example
@@richwilliams1863 Agreed.
Mana Leak, Remand AND Memory Lapse over Mana Drain.
It's probably correct but it startled me, I have been down on the card lately but it used to be one of my favourite ways to start a draft outside of power.
Last time I drafted my own powered cube I did get to counter an aggressive 2drop(I think it was Inti or Magda) into jamming early One Ring on the play. That felt pretty good.
I keep casting Mana Drain and then just burning half the mana, everything is so cheap.
I think one of the big objections to Lurrus is the extra 3 mana at sorcery speed to put it into hand, which Luis' typically glosses over. The better 3 mana plays are, the more of a tax it is to pay 3 mana to get a Lurrus in hand - not just the fact that you can't put those 3 mana cards in your deck. It's a little like the mox/ancestral argument where the speed is just more valuable than the extra cards. Sometimes Lurrus just gets stranded by a fast deck and Lurrus decks have a lot less cards that can catch you back up (often 3-4 mana plays)
Agreed, also theres so many ways of getting card advantage. I've won quite a few Lurrus companion trophies where lurrus doesn't even come into play any of the games because it's so slow. Companion zirda for example when you get there is a much better companion because there it wins the game for you and you always have the combo piece in available.
You just don't get it. Lurrus is never in your hand. Lurrus is never in your deck. You never need to pay for it, but you always can if you want to. The only downside to the card is the deckbuilding restriction. It is far more powerful than you think because you don't even understand where its power comes from.
@@dirtydard4870 Lol, I have multiple Lurrus companion trophies this season. I do understand the concepts you are stating here. Maybe you shouldn't assume people who disagree with you are stupid. The deckbuilding restriction is a downside but not too bad, your cube deck shouldnt have many expensive cards anyway. The problem with Lurrus is that it's really expensive card advantage in a cube where theres soooo much card advantage. Also card advantage isnt worth as much these days because decks don't need to outcard you as much as they used to to kill you. If you are facing a good agressive deck or a good combo deck the game is often decided before you could get value of Lurrus.
If you want to improve at the cube you should not just theorycraft. Also look at how games play out. A ton of games with your lurrus deck it isn't relevant that you have it in your companion zone. So your just left with the deckbuilding restriction. I think the most impressed I was with my lurrus companion this season is when I got it to hand then pitched it to psychic frog to get lethal.
@@Lollerpwn1337 Excellent post! You covered everything I was thinking.
The theoretical value and the observable-in-practice values don't match up.
@@Lollerpwn1337 But part of the reason your deck IS that good and fast is because it's a Lurrus deck. The fact that you didn't need Lurrus doesn't matter. It was still there in case you did.
Great format for this, it was great to have you both talking through the pick order
Ty amigo ✌️
What would be great is if you'd also mention cards that dropped out of the top 50. Mystic Confluence dropping out from a very high position for example. I would have found that interesting.
As for Lurrus, I started picking it lower and lower because of your results with the deck, but maybe I missed the streams where you won with it.
Great stuff. Would really love to see a "50 most underrated cards" video. For my two cents, Lurrus and the fetches, like I'm always taking a bolt or Strip Mine over those. Urza and Oko are also lower than something like Ancient Tomb or even (probably the most underrated card) City of Traitors.
Big fan of this kind of video. Glad you seem to have decided to come back to it every couple sets.
This is the first mtg video that should be nominated for an Emmy
Great video! Was a little bit surprised not to see Urza's Saga make the top 50 or even 60.
Surprised to not see Vaultborn Tyrant!
Keep these kinds of vids coming, they're very helpful and fun!
I hear you, but mana leak/remand/memory lapse > Mana drain is wild to me. Also I'd take Mox Diamond over basically every card after demonic tutor p1p1 (Maybe except Library and FoW), but I also realize that I probably like that card a bit too much.
Really solid list. I always look forward to these. I'm curious how much a card being a good or bad later game top deck goes into your equation for deciding where to rank a card. Some cards like Library of Alexandria and (I know it's not here on your list, but) Fastbond, and honestly even moxes are absolutely busted in the opening draw, but are awful top decks after the first few turns. Whereas something like Forth Eolingas! or Pyrogoyf is fine enough in the opening hand, but the card you frequently hope to top deck more than anything else.
Given he (and BK) have been talking about the importance of keeping up with explosive draws in the early game, particularly on the draw, top deck-ability is probably less weighted than how it is in the opening hand.
Also, don’t sleep on the late game mox. They are almost always broken. Drawing one on turn 6 so you can drop your 3 and 4 on the same turn is busted as hell
@@giancarlocafaro6734 Yeah, I agree that they do seem to value explosive draws and it makes sense for sure. But I feel like those games where you get blown out (or blow someone else out) on turn 2 by a crazy draw stick in the mind better than all those times where your busted early game cards were actually a liability because you drew them too late or didn't draw the other card in the combo. After all, you have less than a 25% chance of drawing those cards in your opening hand when they are the most potent. And yes, moxes can definitely be amazing even late game, and I certainly would never suggest they aren't first pickable. But they are at their best on turn one or two for sure.
Would really love to see a video or something about cards cube is missing if you could create custom cards or old cards that you would like to see if they were changed for cube. For instance I'd suggest we could use a really expensive creature artifact wincon to replace something like blightsteel.[maybe with affinity for artifacts so you could cheat it or just get enough density of artifacts ] Or hey what's a 3/2 goblin guide feel like in cube or does a cycle of enchantment dual lands make enchantress good enough for cube ?
Enchantments is really an interesting one. Like I have thought about whether Serra’s Sanctum could work in cube, but there just aren’t a ton of busted enchantments the same magnitude as busted artifacts, and creatures are just desirable in general, so Sanctum ends up much more narrow than Academy or Cradle.
P1P1 lists are fine, but it’s one pick per draft. What I think would help us more would be a series of archetype guides.
If you count all the fetches as one spot, maybe next time you can group all the moxen together too.
At that point I'd rather just see the list expanded to a top 75 or top 100. It's already close (72 cards) once we include all the fetches and the runners-up.
I was gonna comment the exact same thing! I think it would be interesting to have the next 4 runners too
I like it. At a certain point you're just gonna have neanderthals in the comments arguing about whether Hexdrinker belongs 78th over Snapcaster Mage and all usefulness is lost.
For P1P1 it makes sense to have a pretty tight list seeing as the percentage you open a pack without any of these is effectively zero.
they do explain why the moxen are ordered and the fetches aren't. tldr: some decks/colors make better use of the fast mana than others, fetches are all about the same because of the amount of duals/triomes with basic land types (10 alpha duals, 10 shocklands, 10 triomes, 10 surveil duals)
@@Yurioh They also explain that they're basically interchangeable and that you'll always take an off color mox anyway.
glad to see lurrus taking the #1 spot
I don’t know if I agree with all of this, but you made some really good points that might lead me to reconsider some of my evaluations.
I'm a simple man : I see BK in a LSV video, I like
Glad to see Fury and Palace Jailer in this edition. It was making me lose my mind that both were outside the top 50 last time. Mana Drain is still better than Memory lapse and Remand, imo. Urza's Saga should be on the outer edge of the top 50 or at least an honorable mention
I wonder if the Blue two mana counters are a bit too high? Blue has slipped and their placement in the rankings should probably reflect that.
Cheap proactive threats like Ajani, Luminarch Aspirant, Inti and Containment Priest all feel like they're at least as good to me. Then again, I suppose I'd put all of the aforementioned cards in the tier of cards below fetchlands along with cards 40-50 in this list, and by the sounds of things LSV and BK were alluding to Phelia kinda standing in for the other white two drops too.
Urza's Saga also seems like a bit of an oversight. Am I crazy for feeling pretty comfortable taking it over a fetch P1P1? Feels like it should at least be in the 30-40 range? It keeps you open, is bonkers with any reasonable density of artifacts, and it plays great in many other archetypes too (lands, nadu, skullclamp etc).
Definitely the reason mana drain isn’t on the list. That being said, the best blue splashes outside of power and flash are definitely counters, even as a very light splash. Counters are still so so busted against everything but particularly the kind of early broken stuff that can win games. Mana leak deserves the nod and while remand and lapse are clearly not as good, a skilled pilot that knows they have that as an out can maneuver themselves to a game winning position.
Also, I feel like saga not being on the list is more due to the lack of artifacts in this iteration. It’s harder for it to just end up good in any deck cause the artifacts are all being taken by the artifact deck.
Yeah Ajani is a glaring ommission. Card wins soooo many games. But I don't think BK or LSV like drafting white decks.
Hard to quantify but i feel like chrome mox and mox diamond are underrated here. So many decks that contain some of these top 50-10 cards dont get there but would if they had a chrome mox or mox diamo d
Highly requested content!! Thanks Luis!
It's really interesting to see that white, blue, black and red are about equally represented whilst green only shows up on three multicolor cards, of which Atraxa is rarely actually cast.
LSV actively trying to trigger people with Lurrus at this point.
Oh absolutely! Did you see that pump-fake in a draft were he celebrated and talked for a minute about why Lurrus was the perfect pick? That was an improvised Magic joke elevated to the realm of art.
How come remand makes this list but not reprieve?
Remand goes into every blue deck. White/x control decks aren't as powerful atm.
one advantage reprieve has is it doesn’t say “counter” so it is an answer to uncounterable spells (e.g., way better to counter the emrakul in channel -> emrakul than to counter the channel). But yeah, white’s not a particularly reactive color in the cube so that’s a niche use case in a niche deck.
I find Reprieve is awkward to hold up sometimes in white aggro decks, but you’re absolutely right that it’s a very good card. I like it a lot.
LSV mentioning that he loves fire covenant: ✅
LSV not picking fire covenant: ✅
Good video: ✅✅✅
Great list! It's touched on sometimes but I also love hearing which cards you think are on the bubble or have over stayed their welcome. Could a bottom 50 or 50 most likely to be cut list be interesting?
This is nice content. I think you should do videos of pickorders in specific archetypes. Or just videos of archetypes and how to draft them. // Fras
Definitely need these like once a quarter - Wotc keep printing new crazy carss nonstop!
Definitely feel like Urzas saga, balance, pest infestation, and OG duals need a mention right outside of the top50
yall would pick these blue counters over sheldred the chad?
Absolutely not
I don't know about if it makes the list or not but how are people feeling about the other force (force of negation) in drafts? It is a little worse in the fact it can't hit everything but it is more realistic to hard cast in comparison to Force of will.
It’s just not the most exciting 1st pick
force of negation is a really good cube card intuitively I would put it around the 75th best card in the cube somewhat solidly outside the top 50
Considering how blue it makes you, it's a VERY hard line to take early.
it would be interesting at the end of the year to get a discussion on the new cars that made an impact and how the formats changed
Still watching the video, the two cards that are missing in this top 50 at first glance are: Entomb and Vaultborn Tyrant.
EDIT: Ye I like the explanation of Entomb; I'm a bit higher on it still but totally respect it just not coming together often enough. Vaultborn Tyrant though, I'm pressure I like that one more than e.g. Emrakul.
Agree with pretty much everything except flash being so high. You really need a very specific set of cards to support flash for to be good, whereas cards like forth eorlingas or minsk and boo are going to be great additions to just about any deck
You mentioned this as a passing comment in one of your videos, and I'm curious if you can elaborate. How close are you guys to cutting Karakas from your cube because of how oppressive it is?
You guys are saying the thing I tell my friends not to do which is letting an early lotus push you into prioritizing 3s and 4s
I get the sentiment on lurrus but where i disagree is passing on legitimately premium cards early in the draft to tunnel on companioning. If i see lurrus, I'll take it. But I'm still taking palace jailer or sheoldred over filler 1/2 mana cards if i see them in the next couple packs. Lurrus is still a good cards in the maindeck and i dont think that a 4/10 deck with lurrus companion is better than an 8/10 deck with lurrus in the 40
what a nice video I wish to see something like this for other limted formats as well
I find it hard to believe you're not taking strip mine higher. It's the definition of a high floor, as it has -roughly- the same impact in the game every time, It's always making it into the deck, and that's assuming you're not doing ramunap-crucible shenanigans. Mana vault I think is probably too high, as the better threats in the cube (you have them all on display here) don't have 3 colorless at all in their mana cost. The last thing is mana drain, I understand the rationale but I disagree on the ranking, I mean maybe it has come down some, but outside of the top 50 seems incorrect. I'd put it over remand and lapse for sure, maybe around fetch-lands.
Anyway great video! love your content guys.
Mana Vault doesn't need 3 colorless in a single spell, just in a single turn. Lately I've been using it more often to cast a 2 mana + 3 mana card on turn 2 in the aggressive decks. Agree on Strip though, just a good aggro card.
yasss, been waiting for this one
Would Lurrus be ahead of time walk with the old companion rule? Where would the other companions rank?
It would not be above time walk. I think it would seriously compete with ancestral though. I dont think any other companion cracks the top 50 with the old rule.
@@johannesschroder943 I think i'd have Lutri at least in the top 20
@@joffbaratheon5573 you re right totally forgot lutri. It would def be top 50. Zirda might even get close but I dont believe it gets there.
@@johannesschroder943 I think I might actually even consider unnerfed Lurrus over moxens, regardless it's crazy to think that they printed a card in a recent set that's so incredibly broken it's legit in competition with the p9.
crazy how LSV and BK are on both ends of the eyebrow size spectrum.
I would put Pyrogoyf higher but hard to disagree with this list overall. Although I would put Lurrus lower, of course :P
Love me some BK content, you two are such a fantastic combo.
9:00 one could argue that Bomba is technically the best removal spell in the cube lol
Are Mana Leak, Remand and Memory Lapse really better than Mana Drain P1P1?
No
Yes, cube is so proactive now. You dont want your plan to be hold up uu and wait especially if you end up on the draw and your opponent can just play a 3 drop before you get your second island. What are you even ramping into from your startof uu, jace? Mana drain is still obviously a good card but def not a top 50 first pick. Blue just isn't as strong as it used to be I'd argue remand and lapse shouldn't be in the top 50 either. Crazy they put remand on here and not reprieve, which is just a better version of that effect and in a better color.
@@Cthuski Yea I think these counters are just not firstpick material in the cube with how proactive it is. Very often if I have a deck with a bunch of counters im already super losing by the time I could cast them.
Not needing double blue is really big. I’d rather play easy to cast counters in a deck that’s not heavy blue most of the time.
Is this in the grand scheme of a draft and all of its potential goings-ons or only when P1P1?
Top 50 cards to pick up on the wheel
Mana leak is a great card, but it’s hard to imagine I’m p1p1 a mana leak over a fetch or some of the other cards in the column next to it. Specifically ocelot pride and pyrogoyf I think id take over a mana leak right now
duskmourn pre release is in a week, can we expect another full set review?
The only big question mark I have here is strip mine over fetches. I think p1p1 you nearly always would take strip over fetch. That effect is so much less replaceable if you're in a deck that wants it and it sets you up to be the only seat that really wants the cards that work with it. I don't know if that means strip should be higher or fetches should be lower, but that's my one big question in these rankings. But I'm also just a rando in the youtube comments, what do I know
Is cube actually getting more fun as cards get cheaper and faster? I feel like one day Ancestral’s going to be number 20 on this list and we’ll be saying “you just don’t have time to draw cards” and we’ll have strayed much too far from God’s light.
Where's BKs channel? Seems like he'd also be s great creator.
Great list guys.
MINDTWIST
Love these discussions
Wow how did you managed to open so many powers in your cube draft ? This deck is sick.
You're much better cubers than me but the only thing I wanted to contribute is that I think Fury might be overrated here as it can often get stuck in your hand and not change the game state and it not being an instant like Solitude is a huge deal. I also think Channel's stock is going way up, but it's so narrow I can understand it not being in the top 50.
TLDR, Fury may be overrated, Channel may be top 50
I am a mana drain boomer 😂 Really expected the card very high in the list (based on oldschool vintage cube lists I played a lot).
I'm not even sure Mana Drain would be playable in Legacy if it was legal.
@@meekrab9027 Isn't Counterspell still played in legacy?
@@dirtydard4870 I guess it's sometimes a 1-of in Miracles. I wouldn't call that "still played" though that's more like somebody can't let go.
7 days ago on a cube video I commented “By the time he does another card review, library will be back down to 30”
That comment aged like fine wine
white plume isnt in the current cube iteration, but do you have any thoughts on where it would place if it was?
I would be surprised if it was any lower than bombardiers.
Best non power card easy.
Where does OUAT sit in your power rankings, LSV? Anywhere near the top 50?
I think he calls it 4th pick power level. I think it’s a card you only first pick in a pretty bad pack.
No Sheoldred?
"Just play 18 or 19 lands PLUS Karakas"
This is why you flood out, so often.
I think he flood out so often because he films himself playing 10+ games every day and people latch onto the few times he experiences variance.
Ya this is true lol
Would argue for Hexdrinker, Fire Covenant and Tinker in top 50.
I've been really impressed with skullclamp recently. Maybe should be higher
At this point me and lsv have to agree to disagree about lurrus. i respect the theory behind why its so good, but in practice ive rarely seen it have a huge impact. Plenty of games where its never even put into hand. It also drastically warps the way you draft cards and locks you out of so many broken 3 and 4 cost cards.
The hidden text on lurrus is that you draft a deck that's insanely consistent most of the time just out of necessity. You rarely mulligan with a standard BW lurrus deck. You also look for cards that are super late picks that other people don't want and you can definitely get them it's an S tier pick 1.
I'm smart enough to realize that my assessment of a card is off when the hall of fame mtg player and his group of highly invested, competitive daily drafters say that the only card banned from Vintage for power level reasons is good. 👍
I have had alot of success with lurrus. But I already like tempo decks with cheap creatures and premium interaction. And fractured identity really works well for the archtype. If you already have a great tempo deck lurrus gives you a real "midrange" style of inevitability. Most of my lurrus decks end up playing blue cards usally three to four colors. You dont want green most of the time. But cube is also about playing to your strengths as a drafter and a player. And if your struggling to make one deck work theres enough different kinds of decks to play that can be successful. Speaking for myself I love lurrus decks but if other cubers dont I have no problems with that.
Zero mono Green cards, its funny
The one I would most expect to see is Channel. LSV has picked it pretty high in some recent drafts, and its upside is similar to Flash, while much riskier.
I still think it's wild how high swords is but i mean.. it's definitely good.
Probably the most incorrect placement on this list. Yes, Swords is the most efficient removal spell in the cube, but it's such a massive opportunity cost to value it as a p1p1 that you take over "win the game on their own" cards like Oko when most other spot removal spells are freely available on the wheel and can get the job done just as well on the majority of board states.
Here's my argument against Lurrus being top 50 that I haven't seen/heard: it warps the way you draft deceptively because humans are really bad dealing with sunk costs. You "want to make Lurrus work" so suddenly a whole subset of cards rise in value and another subset sink in value, even as early as P1P2. You are now justifying filler like Mishra's Bauble much higher. I don't think Lurrus stans have the discipline to stay open and keep equity balanced with other picks early on, and I think there's plenty of evidence on this channel (and elsewhere) to support this. Lurrus is obviously a great magic card and I love when Lurrus works, but P1P1-Play-To-Win, I don't think Lurrus should be at #20.
When we rank lurrus highly, we understand and compensate for the cost of warping your picks. The reason P1P1 lurrus is so good is because you can absolutely force it and always end up with a good deck, sorta like the way you can always force 5 color good stuff. There are 8 different 2 color pairs you can draft with lurrus companion. When you P1P1 lurrus, you force it and you know you can't get screwed. Normally forcing something in a draft is a recipe for disaster, because most strategies are more narrow and less flexible, but all lurrus says is that you have to play either white or black, and you have to play cheap permanents. There's zero chance that all of your different paths will all be cut. So you can just throw out the regular drafting rule which says you're not allowed to force something hard. This actually makes your deck stronger because you don't waste a single pick on cards that won't be in your deck, aside from if you have to switch one of your colors which is unlikely
100% agree. Lurrus is the card you wheel or get early in pack two once you've already gotten the cheap removal and creatures. P1P1 I'd rather have a fetch
Oh no I have to warp my deck to play the good cheap cards what ever will I do. All jokes aside the cost isn’t that insane with a lot of 2 and 1 drops are game winning. It’s a value engine that actively makes you wanna 1 for 1 your opponent to death and doing that will win you most games. Not to mention you can play 3 4 and 5 cost instant and sorcery spells. The downside is way overblown and the upside is just game winning.
@@jesusdesanto432that’s a dumb take lol
The problem comes in not having a cohesive deck if you DON"T force your picks to make it companionable. Your deck is SO much better if you have it as a permanent option for an 8th card in your hand than if you just end up putting it in your deck and run non-Lurrus companionable cards. It's another floor-ceiling thing. If you try to stay open after P1P1 Lurrus, you WILL end up with a weaker deck with worse options than if you just committed to it from P1P1 onward.
This video is Library slander and I wont soon forget!
Love it. Top 100?
I'm curious why bowmasters is so high. I think it's really good but there's alot of cards on this list I would take over it. It keeps very slowly ticking down the list for me. The flexibility is incredible but I either want a high impact card or a fetch p1p1
Minsc and boo fits in with.. checks notes, red and green decks. Ya dont say